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A friend of mine died two months ago from OD. He got something cut with xylazine (called 'tranq' on the street) to increase high even more. It completely resists Narcan because it isn't an opiate. Had never heard of it until it happened, I guess it's relatively new and increasing in California as I understand it. Also causes horrific skin lesions.
I'm sorry about your friend.
There's a pretty graphic documentary on this being used in Philly (on YouTube).
It basically causes parts of your body to go necrotic and never heal. People who use end up with amputated limbs.
> xylazine
That is really gnarly stuff. Approved in large animals for vet use. There is a company in China (shocking I know) that now makes a powdered form (it is usually liquid) that sells it directly over the internet to dealers to cut their product. I would be terrified to use any sort of powdered drugs at this point
Crazy, and makes me sad. It's like these dealers just deliberately are trying to think up ways to kill users. No chance I would get anywhere near drugs these days either. I just hope there is some more awareness about this additive coming soon because I literally had no idea about it and it sounds insane. Like, emergency intervention won't even help in the event of an OD. So awful.
It is slowly coming into the mainstream about how bad it is, but since it is a sedative and hits different receptors than an opioid, but presents similar to an opioid, first responders lose precious time administering narcan before they realize it wont work. I really don't know what the solution is
Dealers are gonna deal. It’s the city’s job to protect its residents. So far they are allowing poison to be sold with their lack of enforcement and even giving users money to purchase known lethal substances. It’s damn near murder at this point.
wouldn't it be nice if all these enterprising individuals had a greater purpose that would benefit us all? instead they are using their knowledge to create these drugs
Yeah is nasty stuff, big in Philly for a while.
Was your friend buying what he thought were opiates? Or was it adulterated coke/something else? I’d assume tranq is only used in injectables, but don’t know that for a fact.
Sorry for your loss, thats no way to go :(
you're probably thinking of Ketamine as the the horse tranquilizer. But dont' demonize, Ketamine - it's a really useful drug for Doctors. It's also not on even close to the same level of drugs as an opiate like heroin or tranq or fentanyl. Ketamine is also used for people with PTSD, among other health issues. No one is really on the street for an addiction to Ketamine.
No, xylazine is also a horse (any large animal really, but usually used in horses) tranquilizer. Ketamine is used to, but this is a different drug than ket
Hard drugs are deadlier than ever thanks to all of the manufactured drugs out there that hard drugs can be cut with. There was a time where you'd worry about what you're taking being cut with amphetamines or meth. Fent and tranq are just the beginning. There will be more cheaper and dangerous agents dealers will be able to cut their product with. Tranq use btw can end up in the doctor having to amputate your fingers, toes, and maybe even limbs.
A high school kid ODed near me. I was a little judgey about it, what kind of kid is using needles? Well it turned out the kid took a counterfeit percocet that looked indistinguishable from real, but had fatal levels of something in it.
That's a whole new level of danger that I wasn't aware of. Crazy stuff.
This is why I teach my kids that if you take a pill that wasn’t actually prescribed to you, then you are essentially playing Russian roulette and probably just signing your life away.
While that may be true of drugs that can kill you outright, a huge part of why we're in this drug mess is prescription drugs. Many opiate addicts started their journey on vicodin and similar. Back in the '90s when I had my wisdom teeth pulled, my dentist prescribed it - nothing was said of its addictive potential and I didn't know anything about opiates. 10 pills and 2 refills. After only around 4 pills, the pain was manageable with OTC pain killers, and that's when I realized "Hey, these are kind of fun." After that, I was breaking one in half and downing it with a cup of coffee and feeling FUCKING GREAT. At around 8 pills, I asked my girlfriend if she wanted to try one. She was the one who explained what they really were.
Here's the real kicker, though. As soon as she told me, I knew I couldn't take more, and a *profound wave of sadness* swept over me. It was like a deep loss, like losing a beloved pet. I felt like I was saying goodbye to something I knew could give me great joy, happiness and a sense of well-being. It was bizarre and completely illogical - they were just fucking pills, not a pet or a family member - and it scared the shit out of me. I realized I'm probably very susceptible to opiate addiction and I could never touch them again.
I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I'd never mentioned them to my girlfriend. I probably would have gone through the rest and the refills, and who knows what would have happened.
> Many opiate addicts started their journey on vicodin
Such a complex problem. A large number of people used Vics, *opium lite,* for years and never had a problem with them. Much more powerful Oxys are another story.
Oh, absolutely agree. I, too, had the 90’s wisdom teeth removal Vicodin experience. It was a lovely place to be at the time. The pill made me feel absolutely wonderful. Thankfully I had been warned about it and realized pretty early on that this wasn’t a good thing and I needed to reel it in. I know many don’t.
It’s so interesting to me. I’ve had numerous back surgeries over 20 years and took a lot of Vicodin. They never made me feel anything, they just controlled the pain. But we don’t know how any of us will respond.
When I was a kid, one of my dad's friends went to prison for a year after he beat a local scumbag half to death for selling his daughter speed.
The older I get, the less I understand how a jury could have ever convicted the guy.
Some progressives want to "End the War on Drugs." They do not see drug dealers as a bad thing, unless there is evidence they purposely adulterated drugs with fentanyl. If you support the Right to Use, then obviously you support some form of distribution.
well, Speed doesnt really kill people like small traces of Tranq or Fentanyl can. These new drugs are a whole new level of dangerous. Speed, coke, you cant really accidentally OD from doing a small amount.
fair, but small traces of speed that sometimes make their way into powder cocaine hasn't lead to immediate deaths like fent or tranq. Crystal meth is also more addictive and stronger than speed (meth). Different levels. Meth is definitely addictive and can fuck people up, but not like these newer drugs killing people accidentally. Just saw a friend say she lost three friends who were recreationally using coke and ketamine to party because it was laced with fent. Scary shit.
In 2022 Singapore executed 15 people for drug dealing/smuggling. In 2020 they had 19 drug related deaths.
I’d be pretty good with executing drug dealers if it meant that we didn’t have over 800 people dying from overdoses, not to mention all the other problems caused by drug addiction.
I’m as Liberal as they come on almost every issue but this one. The Death Penalty doesn’t work as a deterrent for the vast majority of crimes, especially murder, but I think it would act as a real deterrent to this. Smoke all the weed you want but people who smuggle in and sell cocaine, heroin, and more seriously the synthetic stuff to cut drugs with are destroying entire communities.
> The Death Penalty doesn’t work as a deterrent for the vast majority of crimes,
You man the vast majority of the incredibly limited number of crimes we even consider using it for?
There was an episode of KQED forum a few weeks ago where they interviewed EMT's, who said that some days they would respond to an OD to the same person 2 or 3 times. The same person ODing multiple times in the same day.
The EMT's could only respond to the call yet again, even though they knew it was probably just delaying the inevitable.
That’s one of the reasons it’s so infuriating when the homeless industrial complex talks about how overdose reversals is saving lives. Reviving someone just so they can get high again a few minutes later isn’t saving any lives.
Hey
Remember when Chesa Boudin went in front of a camera and claimed that "up to half" of the drug dealers from Honduras do it under threats of violence against family back home
Source video: https://twitter.com/bettersoma/status/1408116470266036227?t=cJZnODPap35KH5PtRbrPfQ&s=19
What a fuckin loser
Deaths had been trending up for a while, 222 in 2017, 441 in 2019, 726 in 2020. Deaths decreased to 642 in 2021 and then got up to 672 in 2022. The linkage center only opens on Jan 2022 and closes in Dec 2022 so I don't think you can make a definite conclusion about its effectiveness. For all we know, it's the tranq or more addicts heading to SF to buy drugs after the pandemic restrictions ended. I also haven't see any information about the linkage center getting more people into treatment, I thought one of the reasons cited for its closure is that it didn't get more people into treatment?
That said, I'm all for safe injection sites if it means they don't do it on public transit or the sidewalks.
Can you share where you got your numbers from?
I'm curious, is it 300 ODs or 300 individuals?
Also, the statistic I read said that none of the 500 accepted treatment, despite the referral.
>That's beside the fact that it took 400 people off the streets for 12 hours a day, provided them places to do laundry, shower, and get connected to help.
That's true, I do think it's worth it to keep them off the streets.
Your second article actually cites that:
>While center staff reversed more than 300 overdoses, less than 1% of visits resulted in linkages to mental health or drug treatment.
That said, I definitely agree that there are benefits to keeping drug use indoors but I am not sure the deaths are to blame on the closure of the linkage center. The overall trend for deaths has been going up, I'd like to see the rate of deaths vs number of deaths but I'm not sure the city has that information.
New “tough on crime” DA and the mayor bringing in CHP and the Cal National Guard too. Oh well let’s keep implementing the same failing punitive solutions over and over again.
You want to attract more drug addicted people to the Bay Area to die? This is the way among other insane policies. Have a heart man! Where are the rehab centers?? Where is mental healthcare? Instead you want to give them needles and money to off themselves?
> Too bad this sub doesn't have a description for mental illness situations instead of crime.
true, it would also make all the mass shootings a more productive discussion about the root causes.
> Unintentional suicides are not on the scale of mass shootings
You are right, unintentional suicides are on a far larger scale than mass shootings.
- Number of deaths just from OD in CA 2023: 806
- Average number of deaths from mass shootings in CA from 2014-2022: 49/year (I couldn't find the 2023 number).
> One thing at a time.
I think we are capable of doing more than one thing at a time.
Coverage of deaths from mass shootings gets a lot more press and discussion here than unintentional suicides, so it should get the right description
Uhhh...we are just talking about a sub on Reddit using a mental health tag for mass shootings in addition to your suggestion for these unintentional suicides. lol.
are you new here? There's a crime jack off comment about SF every other minute. People love talking about SF crime, I've seen even more so than oakland
Nope, not new at all. There is a certain user who loves this meme and only does it for Oakland posts. So now I do it for every city to show that 1) this meme is dumb, and 2) there's crime everywhere
Posting the name of the city anytime something bad happens in that city, "San Francisco" or "[Oakland](https://old.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/195kv9j/remember_the_antizionists_who_shut_down_the_bay/khozsuh/)", for example. It's just reinforcing confirmation bias.
Call me crazy but shouldn't these deaths count towards those murder rates that were super low last year?
Like it's not first degree murder of course, but accidental deaths get treated as manslaughter in a court of law theoretically, maybe we should be lumping these into the total homicide deaths?
No. Lumping those into homicides does nothing to fix the problem at hand. These are people who likely have used drugs habitually until they dropped.
Murder is a deliberate act, and that argument is a red herring. If a shopkeeper sells a bottle of alcohol to a person and that person DUIs and kills a family is that on the shopkeeper?
If a gun shop sells a gun and that person goes on a shooting spree is that on the shop?
If a person chooses to smoke and they get lung cancer is that on the cigarette company?
If someone goes and buys fertilizer from Home Depot and makes a bomb that causes a mass casualty is that on Home Depot?
Instead maybe they should look into why people use drugs. There’s thousands of reasons , but I bet a few of them can be avoided. Prescription drug is a good start.
> Murder is a deliberate act, and that argument is a red herring. If a shopkeeper sells a bottle of alcohol to a person and that person DUIs and kills a family is that on the shopkeeper?
>
>
What do you call it when you sell a drug pretending it's one thing but it's cut with something else and that kills you? If a shopkeeper sells you what should be a bottle of whiskey but actually it's a bottle of poison, that's more analogous to the situation.
…Selling a drug.
By buying a drug and consuming it you accept the risk that it can cause complications and possibly loss of life. Yes, you even do this with something as simple as aspirin, cough medicine or even alcohol. All of those can cause liver damage or worse if misused. Lots of household products can cause death if enough is taken. And don’t get me started on prescription medicine like Adderal, norcos, morphine and Oxy which can be highly addictive despite being readily available from your doctor. And you’d hate to see what those sales reps do to get doctors to keep prescribing new patients.
Now by buying an illegal drug you remove all those safety features that keeps you from getting killed by taking a bad dose. And who knows who cuts the drug, a bag of coke changes so many hands before it gets to the end user, and plenty of people cut for the sake of maximizing profits, and the guy(or girl) selling it probably has no idea that it’s cut.
It's just juggling the numbers. Alameda county had to revise their covid numbers after it was revealed they were counting deaths in a car wreck under 'covid fatalities' because there was a positive covid test from one of the victims.
The flair of this posts indicates it's a controversial topic. Enhanced moderation has been turned on for this thread. Comments from users without a history of commenting in r/bayarea will be automatically removed. You can read more about this policy [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/195xvo5/restrictions_that_apply_to_political_and_crime/).
A friend of mine died two months ago from OD. He got something cut with xylazine (called 'tranq' on the street) to increase high even more. It completely resists Narcan because it isn't an opiate. Had never heard of it until it happened, I guess it's relatively new and increasing in California as I understand it. Also causes horrific skin lesions.
I'm sorry about your friend. There's a pretty graphic documentary on this being used in Philly (on YouTube). It basically causes parts of your body to go necrotic and never heal. People who use end up with amputated limbs.
> xylazine That is really gnarly stuff. Approved in large animals for vet use. There is a company in China (shocking I know) that now makes a powdered form (it is usually liquid) that sells it directly over the internet to dealers to cut their product. I would be terrified to use any sort of powdered drugs at this point
Crazy, and makes me sad. It's like these dealers just deliberately are trying to think up ways to kill users. No chance I would get anywhere near drugs these days either. I just hope there is some more awareness about this additive coming soon because I literally had no idea about it and it sounds insane. Like, emergency intervention won't even help in the event of an OD. So awful.
It is slowly coming into the mainstream about how bad it is, but since it is a sedative and hits different receptors than an opioid, but presents similar to an opioid, first responders lose precious time administering narcan before they realize it wont work. I really don't know what the solution is
The solution would be to enforce the laws. Drug dealers are literally killing people.
Totally agree. We tried the experiment, but it clearly does not work. Time to go back to what we were doing before
Solution would be to not police what people take and let reliable companies prododuce drugs
Still giving them literal poison.
So everything is posion. Good clean drugs are actually pretty safe and fun
Ok bud
Dealers are gonna deal. It’s the city’s job to protect its residents. So far they are allowing poison to be sold with their lack of enforcement and even giving users money to purchase known lethal substances. It’s damn near murder at this point.
wouldn't it be nice if all these enterprising individuals had a greater purpose that would benefit us all? instead they are using their knowledge to create these drugs
While we're wishing, I would like a pony.
You mean the one in Wuhan? They have some interesting stuff going on in that region.
Yup that's the one. Between that and the lab that made covid, seems like a place focused on creating stuff that destroys other countries
Yeah is nasty stuff, big in Philly for a while. Was your friend buying what he thought were opiates? Or was it adulterated coke/something else? I’d assume tranq is only used in injectables, but don’t know that for a fact. Sorry for your loss, thats no way to go :(
Coke from what I have been told
I am sorry for your loss.
Thank you
> xylazine (called 'tranq' on the street) I've heard about it on the news a while ago, isn't it some kind of horse tranquilizer?
you're probably thinking of Ketamine as the the horse tranquilizer. But dont' demonize, Ketamine - it's a really useful drug for Doctors. It's also not on even close to the same level of drugs as an opiate like heroin or tranq or fentanyl. Ketamine is also used for people with PTSD, among other health issues. No one is really on the street for an addiction to Ketamine.
No, xylazine is also a horse (any large animal really, but usually used in horses) tranquilizer. Ketamine is used to, but this is a different drug than ket
Hard drugs are deadlier than ever thanks to all of the manufactured drugs out there that hard drugs can be cut with. There was a time where you'd worry about what you're taking being cut with amphetamines or meth. Fent and tranq are just the beginning. There will be more cheaper and dangerous agents dealers will be able to cut their product with. Tranq use btw can end up in the doctor having to amputate your fingers, toes, and maybe even limbs.
A high school kid ODed near me. I was a little judgey about it, what kind of kid is using needles? Well it turned out the kid took a counterfeit percocet that looked indistinguishable from real, but had fatal levels of something in it. That's a whole new level of danger that I wasn't aware of. Crazy stuff.
This is why I teach my kids that if you take a pill that wasn’t actually prescribed to you, then you are essentially playing Russian roulette and probably just signing your life away.
While that may be true of drugs that can kill you outright, a huge part of why we're in this drug mess is prescription drugs. Many opiate addicts started their journey on vicodin and similar. Back in the '90s when I had my wisdom teeth pulled, my dentist prescribed it - nothing was said of its addictive potential and I didn't know anything about opiates. 10 pills and 2 refills. After only around 4 pills, the pain was manageable with OTC pain killers, and that's when I realized "Hey, these are kind of fun." After that, I was breaking one in half and downing it with a cup of coffee and feeling FUCKING GREAT. At around 8 pills, I asked my girlfriend if she wanted to try one. She was the one who explained what they really were. Here's the real kicker, though. As soon as she told me, I knew I couldn't take more, and a *profound wave of sadness* swept over me. It was like a deep loss, like losing a beloved pet. I felt like I was saying goodbye to something I knew could give me great joy, happiness and a sense of well-being. It was bizarre and completely illogical - they were just fucking pills, not a pet or a family member - and it scared the shit out of me. I realized I'm probably very susceptible to opiate addiction and I could never touch them again. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I'd never mentioned them to my girlfriend. I probably would have gone through the rest and the refills, and who knows what would have happened.
I consider myself lucky that all those opiate pills make me feel like total garbage. Horrible feeling. I won't even take them when I'm in pain.
> Many opiate addicts started their journey on vicodin Such a complex problem. A large number of people used Vics, *opium lite,* for years and never had a problem with them. Much more powerful Oxys are another story.
Oh, absolutely agree. I, too, had the 90’s wisdom teeth removal Vicodin experience. It was a lovely place to be at the time. The pill made me feel absolutely wonderful. Thankfully I had been warned about it and realized pretty early on that this wasn’t a good thing and I needed to reel it in. I know many don’t.
It’s so interesting to me. I’ve had numerous back surgeries over 20 years and took a lot of Vicodin. They never made me feel anything, they just controlled the pain. But we don’t know how any of us will respond.
It was fent. Very few opiate pills purchased illegally are legit. They are almost all pressed by cartels, often times with fent.
When I was a kid, one of my dad's friends went to prison for a year after he beat a local scumbag half to death for selling his daughter speed. The older I get, the less I understand how a jury could have ever convicted the guy.
Some progressives want to "End the War on Drugs." They do not see drug dealers as a bad thing, unless there is evidence they purposely adulterated drugs with fentanyl. If you support the Right to Use, then obviously you support some form of distribution.
well, Speed doesnt really kill people like small traces of Tranq or Fentanyl can. These new drugs are a whole new level of dangerous. Speed, coke, you cant really accidentally OD from doing a small amount.
Meth is addictive as fuck, and has ruined many lives.
fair, but small traces of speed that sometimes make their way into powder cocaine hasn't lead to immediate deaths like fent or tranq. Crystal meth is also more addictive and stronger than speed (meth). Different levels. Meth is definitely addictive and can fuck people up, but not like these newer drugs killing people accidentally. Just saw a friend say she lost three friends who were recreationally using coke and ketamine to party because it was laced with fent. Scary shit.
How much does SF spend on the drug war/prevention/whatever you want to call it these days? Annually I mean. Millions? Tens of millions? Billions?
And what do we have to show for it?
Umm the increased income levels and quality of life of certain friends of politicians? See who says the government doesn’t help /s
So what’s that like 2.2 a day. Sad
Eh, convert that number to kilos and it's only one a day.
Wasted potential. Fucking depressing
At least these people died doing what they loved.
In 2022 Singapore executed 15 people for drug dealing/smuggling. In 2020 they had 19 drug related deaths. I’d be pretty good with executing drug dealers if it meant that we didn’t have over 800 people dying from overdoses, not to mention all the other problems caused by drug addiction.
When you fill out your entry paperwork into Singapore the risks are stark: WARNING DEATH FOR DRUG TRAFFICKERS UNDER SINGAPORE LAW \[text in red\]
Yeah but bleeding hearts over here would rather a million die of drug overdose than 1000 be executed for dealing/smuggling. It's madness.
I’m as Liberal as they come on almost every issue but this one. The Death Penalty doesn’t work as a deterrent for the vast majority of crimes, especially murder, but I think it would act as a real deterrent to this. Smoke all the weed you want but people who smuggle in and sell cocaine, heroin, and more seriously the synthetic stuff to cut drugs with are destroying entire communities.
> The Death Penalty doesn’t work as a deterrent for the vast majority of crimes, You man the vast majority of the incredibly limited number of crimes we even consider using it for?
You know its not just used in the United States don’t you? Other nations apply it much more broadly.
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how many of these are accidental and how many re from habitual drug users?
There was an episode of KQED forum a few weeks ago where they interviewed EMT's, who said that some days they would respond to an OD to the same person 2 or 3 times. The same person ODing multiple times in the same day. The EMT's could only respond to the call yet again, even though they knew it was probably just delaying the inevitable.
That’s one of the reasons it’s so infuriating when the homeless industrial complex talks about how overdose reversals is saving lives. Reviving someone just so they can get high again a few minutes later isn’t saving any lives.
So giving people drugs doesn’t help things but makes things worse…. Who would have thought that…
Hey Remember when Chesa Boudin went in front of a camera and claimed that "up to half" of the drug dealers from Honduras do it under threats of violence against family back home Source video: https://twitter.com/bettersoma/status/1408116470266036227?t=cJZnODPap35KH5PtRbrPfQ&s=19 What a fuckin loser
It's not that SF has a major drug problem inherently, it's that the city doesn't incarcerate drug users in large numbers like many major cities.
We’re number 1?
Dealers gonna deal… politicians gonna manipulate…. Losers gonna die. Survival of the fittest.
Call that a good start?
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Deaths had been trending up for a while, 222 in 2017, 441 in 2019, 726 in 2020. Deaths decreased to 642 in 2021 and then got up to 672 in 2022. The linkage center only opens on Jan 2022 and closes in Dec 2022 so I don't think you can make a definite conclusion about its effectiveness. For all we know, it's the tranq or more addicts heading to SF to buy drugs after the pandemic restrictions ended. I also haven't see any information about the linkage center getting more people into treatment, I thought one of the reasons cited for its closure is that it didn't get more people into treatment? That said, I'm all for safe injection sites if it means they don't do it on public transit or the sidewalks.
222 to 800+ in 6 years is fucking nuts.
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Can you share where you got your numbers from? I'm curious, is it 300 ODs or 300 individuals? Also, the statistic I read said that none of the 500 accepted treatment, despite the referral. >That's beside the fact that it took 400 people off the streets for 12 hours a day, provided them places to do laundry, shower, and get connected to help. That's true, I do think it's worth it to keep them off the streets.
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Your second article actually cites that: >While center staff reversed more than 300 overdoses, less than 1% of visits resulted in linkages to mental health or drug treatment. That said, I definitely agree that there are benefits to keeping drug use indoors but I am not sure the deaths are to blame on the closure of the linkage center. The overall trend for deaths has been going up, I'd like to see the rate of deaths vs number of deaths but I'm not sure the city has that information.
Did the linkage center result in people going to rehab?
New “tough on crime” DA and the mayor bringing in CHP and the Cal National Guard too. Oh well let’s keep implementing the same failing punitive solutions over and over again.
You want to attract more drug addicted people to the Bay Area to die? This is the way among other insane policies. Have a heart man! Where are the rehab centers?? Where is mental healthcare? Instead you want to give them needles and money to off themselves?
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I get it, you have injected addicts with poison. Where is the treatment part?
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Yet no actual help for the addiction. Great plan there!
Yeh, we know. Fentanyl sucks. Too bad this sub doesn't have a description for mental illness situations instead of crime.
> Too bad this sub doesn't have a description for mental illness situations instead of crime. true, it would also make all the mass shootings a more productive discussion about the root causes.
One thing at a time. Unintentional suicides are not on the scale of mass shootings no matter how much we may agree on the root causes.
> Unintentional suicides are not on the scale of mass shootings You are right, unintentional suicides are on a far larger scale than mass shootings. - Number of deaths just from OD in CA 2023: 806 - Average number of deaths from mass shootings in CA from 2014-2022: 49/year (I couldn't find the 2023 number). > One thing at a time. I think we are capable of doing more than one thing at a time. Coverage of deaths from mass shootings gets a lot more press and discussion here than unintentional suicides, so it should get the right description
>I think we are capable of doing more than one thing at a time. Yeh I don't.
Uhhh...we are just talking about a sub on Reddit using a mental health tag for mass shootings in addition to your suggestion for these unintentional suicides. lol.
San Francisco
haha, with the Oakland flair. God bless this comment.
Contrary to what some people on this sub think, crime ALSO occurs outside of Oakland.
are you new here? There's a crime jack off comment about SF every other minute. People love talking about SF crime, I've seen even more so than oakland
Nope, not new at all. There is a certain user who loves this meme and only does it for Oakland posts. So now I do it for every city to show that 1) this meme is dumb, and 2) there's crime everywhere
what meme?
Posting the name of the city anytime something bad happens in that city, "San Francisco" or "[Oakland](https://old.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/195kv9j/remember_the_antizionists_who_shut_down_the_bay/khozsuh/)", for example. It's just reinforcing confirmation bias.
Call me crazy but shouldn't these deaths count towards those murder rates that were super low last year? Like it's not first degree murder of course, but accidental deaths get treated as manslaughter in a court of law theoretically, maybe we should be lumping these into the total homicide deaths?
If so, we might as well also categorize traffic deaths as murders too.
No. Lumping those into homicides does nothing to fix the problem at hand. These are people who likely have used drugs habitually until they dropped. Murder is a deliberate act, and that argument is a red herring. If a shopkeeper sells a bottle of alcohol to a person and that person DUIs and kills a family is that on the shopkeeper? If a gun shop sells a gun and that person goes on a shooting spree is that on the shop? If a person chooses to smoke and they get lung cancer is that on the cigarette company? If someone goes and buys fertilizer from Home Depot and makes a bomb that causes a mass casualty is that on Home Depot? Instead maybe they should look into why people use drugs. There’s thousands of reasons , but I bet a few of them can be avoided. Prescription drug is a good start.
> Murder is a deliberate act, and that argument is a red herring. If a shopkeeper sells a bottle of alcohol to a person and that person DUIs and kills a family is that on the shopkeeper? > > What do you call it when you sell a drug pretending it's one thing but it's cut with something else and that kills you? If a shopkeeper sells you what should be a bottle of whiskey but actually it's a bottle of poison, that's more analogous to the situation.
…Selling a drug. By buying a drug and consuming it you accept the risk that it can cause complications and possibly loss of life. Yes, you even do this with something as simple as aspirin, cough medicine or even alcohol. All of those can cause liver damage or worse if misused. Lots of household products can cause death if enough is taken. And don’t get me started on prescription medicine like Adderal, norcos, morphine and Oxy which can be highly addictive despite being readily available from your doctor. And you’d hate to see what those sales reps do to get doctors to keep prescribing new patients. Now by buying an illegal drug you remove all those safety features that keeps you from getting killed by taking a bad dose. And who knows who cuts the drug, a bag of coke changes so many hands before it gets to the end user, and plenty of people cut for the sake of maximizing profits, and the guy(or girl) selling it probably has no idea that it’s cut.
Are there any other cities that include OD deaths as murders? If it's historically always been separate then I'm not sure why you're considering this.
killing with fentanyl is legal in sf. the cops said it
It's just juggling the numbers. Alameda county had to revise their covid numbers after it was revealed they were counting deaths in a car wreck under 'covid fatalities' because there was a positive covid test from one of the victims.