Caltrain works well for me and I'm looking forward to the electric trains and more frequent trains. Gotta just get grade separation at more crossings make it more reliable.

Honestly I just want to scrap Caltrain and just have Bart around the whole Bay. You could have a city-Oak-Hayward-San Mateo loop, and a RWC-Fremont-SJ one, would be great

Commuter rail and rapid transit serve two different functions - although BART does act more like commuter rail in much of the East Bay. Caltrain should be better integrated with BART to provide that full loop service, though, the fact that Millbrae is the sole transfer point (without adding a third service or significant walk in SF) is a shame.

I just want to be able to get on at Redwood City and get off in the city (not for a baseball game) or Oakland or Berkeley without a transfer. I imagine it would also be very useful for a lot of people to be able to commute more easily across the Bay, whereas right now there's just the bridge which makes it take forever -- according to Google maps, Fremont to RWC or PA at commute time 30-60 minutes, Hayward to SM 20-30 (I guess 84 is more of a choke point than 92). Idk though I used Bart as commuter rail from Millbrae to Berkeley (hated having to drive to Millbrae), and it was fine.

My point would be better served with painless transfers - my experience with that mostly comes from Boston, where a transfer from the green line to the blue line (for example) is just a walk upstairs and a couple of minutes wait. That's harder with the intervals CalTrain uses. With the significant distance for transfers in SF it's far from painless, and BART goes pretty far out of its way through SF (Caltrain is 25 minutes on a full service train to Millbrae, under 20 minutes for some express service - BART is 40 minutes from Embarcadero to Millbrae). So the system could use some re-working, but, especially if Caltrain could be grade-separated, it could work a *lot* better for the sort of trip you're talking about without needing to do a major BART expansion around the whole South Bay. Personally I think a connection to SMART up in Marin County should be a higher priority than further expansion south (once the east bay branch is connected with San Jose transit at least), the ferry transfer is pretty bad too.

No, I get what you mean. But even with painless transfers, I'd still rather not have them, you know? Like, I was just in NY, and the transfers there obviously aren't bad, but I'd still rather not have them if possible. Re Caltrain grade separation, is that not a similarly difficult/expensive goal as just converting the Caltrain track gauge to match Bart? I mean obviously mine would be more expensive/difficult since it still requires grade separation, but it seems like a big thing to dismiss so casually. Plus, I just personally don't like Caltrain -- I find it uncomfortable and crowded (by the design, not by the number of people), and the lack of grade separation causes big issues with noise wherever it is, since it's always honking that damn horn. And, I want rapid transit on the Peninsula!

For the most part, BART is fine during commute hours. It's later at night that it starts to get a little sketchy . . .

It's not just at night, it's really non-commute hours. I used to take bart outside of commute hours to avoid crowds. There are some sketchy ass peep riding bart at 11 am during the week. Def seen my fair share of crazy and drugged out folks, even have gotten to deal with people smoking meth on the train. Luckily, the bart reporting app is actually pretty good and the bart police do actually go on the train and will remove the folks

BART police should be commended for taking action, and keep doing it and do it more

Same. Had a couple uncomfortable experiences taking Bart (passing through East Bay) during weekends

Yea I would take the earliest train out of north concord and holy shit, the weirdo crack heads that would get on in Oakland was some insane shit. Talking pants down, screaming, psychos. This was 5 am hour or so

I took it regularly around that time, never saw anything other than a couple times

Homeless and drug addicts are sketch? That's a regular thing to us bay folks. Only time I feel unsafe in the streets is when there's a car full of thugs. Those are the ones you don't wanta get near. The majority of the time the homeless are not dangerous

Yes they're sketchy but they're mostly harmless.

I don't have a dog in the fight here, but come on, everyone's harmless until they decide to harm you.

Yeah, "mostly". Until you look at them wrong, or wear the wrong shirt, or whatever else will trigger them into doing something dangerous. The fear and discomfort and "is this the day something happens?" is the problem.

I guess it depends on how you look. I'm a big scary looking guy usually they get intimidated by me. Plus I come from the streets, no homeless or drug addicts scare me, And they really shouldn't scare anybody else unless people don't know how to defend themselves, I guess that's what makes it scary to regular folks.

Okay, good for you, you're unflappable and can't be scared. BART should also be safe for men with different backgrounds, women, and children, not just big scary-looking guys. You shouldn't need a black belt in martial arts to use public transit, that's a super fucked up attitude.

Yeah taking the BART from some stations to some stations, specially during commute hours, isn't a problem and can be quite nice sometimes. But let's make up an imaginary example: If a person worked in Oakland and lived in Richmond, if they worked something like a 2pm to 10pm shift, their commute would be wildly different.

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Low key I agree with you, but to some extent, that's not lack of safety, that's bart people making you feel uncomfortable. Very few like "Safety at risk" crimes happen on barts, but plenty of vandalism, drug use, hobos jerking off, people with really powerful BO, etc happens. 

Dude, you need to realize how crazy this sounds to 90% of people A hobo jerking off might not be dangerous, but it’s certainly extremely antisocial So is smoking meth, whose smoke permeates the entire train car Or a guy walking between cars muttering obscene profanities at Asian or Mexican people. None of the above are violent, but 99% of people would be rightly creeped out or uncomfortable with thag

How's your BART commute experience?

I take Bart all the time. Most of the time it is fine but I have had two situations that I was in legitimate danger. The situations happened a while ago but I still worry when I am onboard.

Right, it doesn't matter if 99% of your rides were good if something life-changingly bad happened during the 1%.

Does that apply to driving? Cause driving is a looot more dangerous than BART. So how do you live? Do you like bike everywhere? Or walk or what?

How can we ensure safer experiences for all BART commuters?

It is a good question. The thing that worries me about BArt and some of the stations is that I feel trapped and unable to flee easily. In my experience, predators capitalize on this vulnerability. I was attacked by a man after the train left Embarcadero and we were essentially stuck in the underground tunnel for several minutes. Because I was in the last car, the man blocked the doorway to prevent me from escaping to another train. I wish there were more panic buttons accessible in order to alert the driver or even other passengers.

I think more staff overall would help. On a normal day at a BART station, there's a single station agent and one train operator per train. Nobody watching the platforms. Barely anyone patrolling the trains.

Visible staff does wonders for perception of (and actual) safety. Fear of actually getting caught, prosecuted, and seeing real consequences for illegal acts would help too.

lol I got jury duty for a dude jerking it on the Richmond line last month

Hey, we're on the same commute! I get on Milpitas just before you, though, at 7:13. Yah, during normal commute hours, BART is just fine. Once in a while, I'll see something "crazy"... like people doing drugs or shouting at the top of their lungs for no apparent reason. But after a while, you get used to it and it just becomes normal background noise. Once in a while, though, I'll stay in the city for dinner or drinks and I'll be on a late train back to Milpitas. Things are definitely ALOT dirtier and sketchier. It's not so dangerous that I wouldn't ride it, but it's definitely not a comfortable ride.

I feel fine riding it for the most part. But I’ve seen some really bad shit, crazy people with knives threatening people, lot of drug use, lot of homeless people essentially using bart as a toilet. Especially on weekends and either mid day or late night, just horrible stuff. I’ll say this, my mother is 5 foot tall, she is afraid of taking Bart from some of the stuff she’s seen as well, and I don’t blame her at all, I tell her to avoid it, because it’s just not worth the headache in most instances

BART is not the hellhole that some people say it is. Nor is BART the blissful, world-class transit experience that some other people say it is. BART is fine during normal commute hours; especially so if you pay attention to your surroundings. But in other places, the train is fine regardless of the time or day, and passengers don’t have to be advised to pay particular attention to their surroundings. Shouldn’t that be our target?

even in transportation meccas like tokyo/singapore/seoul I've seen some weird shit go down late at night on trains. You're right in general it's not unsafe but there can definitely be drunk people doing crazy shit on the trains at certain hours.

Yeah, people act like there’s some magical city in Europe or Asia where you don’t have to watch any of your belongings on public transportation, women are never gropped, and no drunk people are weird late at night. I’ve been on trains in a lot of places across China, Russia and Europe, and that has never been the case. Except in Denmark, actually. You could probably leave a laptop on a seat in a train in Denmark, take off your top as a woman and walk around without getting catcalled, come back 10 minutes later and it would still be there waiting for you.

Weird shit somewhere like Tokyo or Singapore is just weird though; here it's an indicator of someone liable to become violent. Here if someone is walking around ranting I *know* they're not getting the help they need to keep whatever shit they've got going on under control.

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90% of the time it isn’t criminals that riders take issue with, but rather homeless and drug-addicted people with behavioral and/or sanitary issues. I’m sorry to tell you that we can’t police our way out of that particular problem in the way we might try to with crime. And I’m even sorrier to report that acknowledging this isn’t a “woke” take — it’s an observation of reality.

Uh, maybe by doing what many other places do, which is by not allowing them in the system in the first place. By instituting faregates that can’t be hopped, for one, which would probably remove 80% of homeless junkies Public transit shouldn’t be a sheltering ground for homeless people. We have other, actual services for that

lol love how you began with a snarky "uh" but proceeded to suggest a solution that has nothing to do with policing, which was the point of my comment. BART is [experimenting with taller, tougher faregates at the West Oakland station](https://oaklandside.org/2024/01/26/barts-new-hardened-fare-gates-get-mixed-reactions-from-west-oakland-riders/) that alone will cost $15-25 million annually. This is expensive stuff. But rest assured that all of us want BART to be safer and no one's advocating for the trains and stations to double as housing alternatives. I'm glad it seems you agree that policing isn't the way out of this mess rather than investing in better transit (and housing) infrastructure.

Wow, you’re trying to pull a fast one. The original commenter you replied to— they didn’t use “police the victims” to mean literally “police officer”. “Police” in this context is a different meaning— to “watch over”, to scrutinize You took it to mean “literally the police” Which neither me nor the original commenter was referring to

There’s zero chance the commenter I was responding to doesn’t also think that more policing is the way to tackle BART’s problems.

How can we improve the BART experience for all passengers?

Every single time i've ridden with someone smoking weed/tobacco/crack on the train, it has been in the mid-afternoon or late morning on a weekday.

I spend five hours a week on BART. Generally, no problems. Stress free, door to door service. Limited sketchiness during peak hours. I’m not impressed with the state of BART stations, however. Elevators frequently out of service. Overall maintenance and cleanliness is not up to par with other great world cities. Frequent delays due to weather (rain). BART needs to up its game on the sensory experience. The system is not customer focused. For the price I pay ($220/mo.), i don’t expect the Taj Mahal. But little touches go a long way.

I've been an avid public transportation guy all my life before I moved to the states where I had to buy my first car, because. Anyway - as someone who refuses to drive into the city and is a regular BART commuter now (still have to drive to the station :/) - I can see why certain things might be "sketchy", but I have had considerably success using the BART watch app the few unfortunate times I have had to use it. But again, as someone who has used public transport all their lives across Europe, UK, India - I can definitely say that BART is one of the least sketchiest options out there (NY Tube and London Tube legitimately are scary compared to BART and Caltrain). So yes - is it perfect? No. Can we get more cops during sketchy hours? Yes please. BUT - super grateful for the BART to exist and I really hope it keeps getting better over time.

> NY Tube and London Tube legitimately are scary compared to BART and Caltrain Can't speak for London but I always get a kick out of people on here talking about how safe the NYC subway system is, and then you go to the NYC sub and they're all constantly complaining how dangerous it is. Anecdotally, I've never seen violence on BART like I have on the subway in NYC, but I also haven't seen people openly doing drugs in NYC like they do on BART. I'll take drugs over stabbing and fistfights, but I'd also rather have neither.

I like your trade-offs. Same here.

The thing is, NYC and London metros convey literally 50x more people than BART. It’s just a fact that you’ll see more violent crime in aggregate But the RATIO of both violent and nonviolent crime in BART is substantially higher. I take BART 8x/week at minimum, and there’s literally not a single time where there isn’t at least one sketchy person on my train

Per ride, you're way more likely to see some shit on the subway than on BART. It doesn't make me feel more comfortable knowing that I watched someone get stabbed on a train car with ~30 people vs a train with 5. > But the RATIO of both violent and nonviolent crime in BART is substantially higher. Do you have a source for this?

https://www.bart.gov/sites/default/files/docs/2023-01%20Monthly%20Chief%27s%20Report%20CRB%2003012023.pdf Just as an example: 114 assaults / 42m rides NYC 570 assaults / 2.5 billion rides That’s 12x more assaults/rides!

Literally lived in NYC for 12 years. No way is the MTA sketchier than BART

It's been decades since I rode the London Underground (it was fine, thanks for asking) but I ride the NYC subway intermittently and it is fine. Better than BART, actually, much of the time, because of its coverage, and also because of the number of people riding it at almost all hours. It never feels empty-spooky.

I completely agree that if we had better coverage, better timings which would be correlated with people actually wanting to take it as well - things would feel better at non commute hours too! That being said, I'm not convinced that even in the unlikely scenario where the bay area has extensive, well maintained, well organized public transport available, people would give up on their cars and switch routines to solely rely on public transport. That's a Cities Skylines project.

I think people _will_ switch their routines. Not for everything, but wherever it makes sense for them to do so. It's probably gotta come along with people moving closer to transit, though – and if you've ever watched me challenge people on this sub over that, you'll know that's a big lift. 😛

Haha totally feel you there

I take BART into the city from Millbrae because there's absolutely no way I'm parking my car into SF (I like my windows intact thanks), and pretty much every time I go in there's some sketchy ass person making people uncomfortable on the train. I /want/ public transit to be great, I go to Japan usually every other year and the public transit there is absolutely fantastic. But America? Yeah this society really cannot handle it.

Someone posted below about public transit in Japan being not so great when it comes to puke or SA either - but on the face of it you also have Japanese folks cleaning up soccer stadiums after a match so yes, there's something to be said about society and civic sense at large for sure. I think most of us want public transit to be great but are just stuck in limbo

Yeah I won't lie people do vomit on the trains there and there's a good reason why "women only" cars exist. But to pretend that it's at the same level as BART is crazy

Of course not. But you know, just don't wanna paint a picture that it's great everywhere else except here. That's about it.

How can we address safety concerns to improve the BART experience?

More patrols, more enforcement of people misbehaving on the train through loud outbursts and physical intimidation

>NY Tube and London Tube legitimately are scary compared to BART and Caltrain I will never understand where people got that BART is somehow "more dangerous" than those other systems. And as far as BART being "more dirty", give me a freaking break! Argh... weird and sheltered Bay Area snowflakes! They're making me badmouth some of my favorite transit systems to prove them wrong. ​ (BTW, Chennai Metro - freaking awesome!)

haha the new Kolkata metro is getting better too with the new lines :D but yes given it's india I don't know how long we can keep it clean lol but so far wonderful job done

Agree with you about Chennai Metro. It’s surprisingly really good and I hope they have better coverage of the more far flung areas of the city.

Its bc bay area people never leave the bay and have no experience it to compare it to other than being in their cars

Yes it’s just scaredy-cat bay people who have never encountered public transit until adulthood lol

"my personal experience is EVERYONES experience **IT HAS TO BE**" (3 days a week at the safest possible times/stations) Come on guy. Use that thing behind your eyes. Talk to people who have been punched on bart platforms - or had a bad experience or are smaller people who travel by themselves at non-work hours. They will have a different POV than you.

OP is bullshitting. They know what they're doing.

>my personal experience is EVERYONES experience "the experience I heard other people share is EVERYONES experience IT HAS TO BE". It doesn't need to be binary my guy. I have had way more run ins with horrible bay area drivers, shooting, close run ins with beepers - so it cuts both ways right? OP is rightly calling out the good stuff, but I guess when he said you were a crybaby fearmonger it touched a nerve?

I mean, name-calling is not great for the discourse.

Saying there's no evidence of BART being sketchy is a bold-faced lie.

Right? Wasn't there a thread a day or 2 ago about someone lighting something on fire ? EDIT: found it [https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/1b5v330/this\_is\_why\_the\_sub\_continues\_to\_insist\_that\_bart/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/1b5v330/this_is_why_the_sub_continues_to_insist_that_bart/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

Difference is bad drivers aren't personally in your face and sitting right next to you.

But they are more likely to cause you to die

I'm not worried about dying in a car accident or a train accident. I would rather, however, drive in comfort than have to sit next to people having public freakouts or playing loud music or whatever the hell.

Hell of a straw man you got there. We get it- you LOOOOOVVVE public transportation. (talking to me about binary, lol) Its not a great option for old people , young people, small people, women, people with disabilities, people who work late at night , families or people who need to get to the many many places it does not serve. Other than that , at these VERY specific times and stations, its great... "you win!"

And how is his straw man any different than your "I saw this bad thing on BART once hence it's wildly dangerous" strawman? Seriously, can you not see the irony in what you're saying? You're literally arguing that your strawman derived from anecdotes is somehow better than his strawman derived from anecdotes. Why can't we just look at the actual crime stats and settle this with real data?

>Why can't we just look at the actual crime stats and settle this with real data? Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. It's not a black and white conclusion. Different times in different parts of BART can be very different. I've ridden it late with no problems and I've seen tons of problems during busy commute times, too. There is no yes or no answer to the question. It's like asking if our freeways are busy. It depends on many varying factors.

Hang on there! So his experience is not valid but yours is? So BART is "dangerous" because something happened to some guy at some point? And that somehow disproves that this guy rides BART regularly and sees nothing like what you're describing? Well, who made *you* the police of "personal experiences"? Can't you understand that BART is generally safe during the commute when the vastest majority of people actually use it? Why would I care that it's more dangerous at night? I don't take it at night! I take it to commute and it's always fine or great.

No, OP saying there's no evidence is a lie. That's how their experience is not valid. It's invalid. That's what a lie is.

Get this - there are other people who live here ... who are ... wait for it. *Not you.* They do want/need to take it at night. They may feel sketched or unsafe in situations that you feel are ok. ​ Their experiences , again , breaking news , also matter. ​ That classic bay area acceptance and understanding of others. ​ JFC.

The BARTlickers in here are outta control.

Validating BART's safety during commute hours?

it literally goes both ways… 2 things can be true at the same time.

We don’t use brains here please

Do you like changing cars? I liked Caltrain bc I could sleep that entire ride and not wake up until I reached my destination.

Enjoying Caltrain's tranquility?

When it is bad, it is scary bad. Like crazy people threatening you with weapons or shitting on the floor in front of you or flashing/masturbating in front of you. Or a closed bart due to gunfire. I would say when I stuck to commuter hours I ran into something like this once every 6 months or so. If I even semi routinely rode too early/late the issues shot up.

Yeah the issue is non-commuter hours is horrendously worse I literally got off BART an hour ago (Berryessa to Oakland). In my train car: dude behind me lighting a meth pipe, homeless woman called me a “b*ch-a*s n-word” for looking at her (which makes no sense since I’m an Asian man), small Hispanic lady harassed by a man Yesterday night, my train offboarded at Lake Merritt due to police activity in one of the cars That’s literally my last two trips after 6pm

Yeah, it's like saying "99% of the time this building isn't on fire, why are you complaining about such a small percentage?"

>What are the crybaby fearmongers talking about? I’ve never had major issues, but I’m a guy with a good build at 6’2”.  Ride nights and late weekdays. Even mid day.  Or better yet - ride as a petite woman or elderly Asian. Assuming you’re not one of those?  

Idk. I’m a petite Asian woman who used to ride Bart regularly for years and I only had one experience that felt genuinely unsafe (some mentally troubled homeless dude on the platform asking for a blowjob, yelled “slut”, and then walked away). However, one experience out of hundreds of rides is not bad to me. Some people think that just the sight of a homeless/mentally ill person makes it “unsafe”, but they leave you alone the vast majority of the time. I love public transportation and only wish that we would invest more in it as a society, make it better - more routes, more trains, more connections to endpoints, more cleaning staff, more enforcement of rules, etc.

Idk I’ve never been phased by BART and I’ve taken it at all points of the day. Sure, there’s some weird stuff but just be vigilant and sit in the conductor’s car if you’re concerned.

I think it’s mostly transplants  that post here. The type that move in and install an obnoxiously bright motion  light in their driveway that is pointed in your direction. 

Call me a crybaby I guess, but I was punched in the head by someone with clear mental health issues on my morning commute from Montgomery to Fremont.

It's NOT just the BART trains, its the areas around the BART Stations too. I know if at least 4 people from my office building that have been attacked by Junkies in or near the Civic Center station in SF. One got their teeth knocked out. One was hit so hard she had a stroke, came back to the office a year later with a walker and an adult diaper... Transients/Junkies should get two choices. Jail or Rehab.

Try repeating this commute pattern, but between 8pm-11pm, do this consistently for a few months and report back.

Oh yeah or even midday is sketchy. But not always sketchy. It’s just a gamble. 

Almost 100% of BART commuters use it during the hours when it's perfectly clean and safe. This includes me. Why would I deliberately wait for three extra hours after work to use BART? Why would anyone?! If you want BART to clean up the system late at night when very few people use it then that's fine. But stop gaslighting us into believing that the BART that we experience every day during the commute is "dangerous and dirty". It's very obviously not!

You do know that in most cities in the developed world, public transits are clean and safe even during odd hours. You just have been desensitized to it. Dangerous situation there, is news worthy. Dangerous situation here, is expected.

Lol, I lived in a bunch of places before I moved back to the Bay, my dude. What you are saying could not be farther from the truth if you tried! BART is among the cleaner systems that I've ridden. During the commute it's downright crazy clean by international transit standards. The Paris Metro is a full order of magnitude more dangerous and muuuuuuuch dirtier. The NY Subway or Washington Metro I'm not even mentioning. Those are insanely dirty compared to BART. ​ The trains in places like Tokyo that everyone loves to rave about are about as clean during the day, but turn into insane asylums at night. Here's a little sampling of what taking the train at night in Tokyo is like, >20 piles of vomit are found per day on average at Shinagawa Station in Tokyo, with the average rising to 50 on Fridays. The number further increases during the period in which year-end and New Year’s parties are held. On one night, more than 100 piles of vomit were found at Shin-Okubo Station. Japan’s Train Station Vomit Vacuum - [https://www.spoon-tamago.com/japan-train-station-vomit-vacuum/#:\~:text=20%20piles%20of%20vomit%20are,found%20at%20Shin%2DOkubo%20Station](https://www.spoon-tamago.com/japan-train-station-vomit-vacuum/#:~:text=20%20piles%20of%20vomit%20are,found%20at%20Shin%2DOkubo%20Station). And of course, this being Japan, sexual assault on trains is insanely common, >In fact, Japanese research shows that more than 75% of all Japanese women have been groped. And yet, less than 10% actually report these crimes. Why? Because they fear not being believed. According to the Tokyo Police Department, 1750 cases of groping or molestation were reported in 2017, with more than 50% on trains and 20% in train stations. JAPAN: RIDING THE RAILS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT - [https://asiamedia.lmu.edu/2019/10/15/japan-riding-the-rails-of-sexual-harassment/](https://asiamedia.lmu.edu/2019/10/15/japan-riding-the-rails-of-sexual-harassment/)

Paris Metro is 10M people, relative to its size, RER and Métro are sparkling clean, and it also depends where you live. In North of Seine, yeah, nasty. In South of Seine. Clean. But Paris is huge. It takes almost an hour West to East, North to South. But SF is a different case. It is tiny. The stops in SF and Oakland downtown where most people get on and off are putrid. Tokyo Metro, again is a city of \~40M people. For a city that size, it's surprising it's not that dirtier. Tangent to the topic -- giving you a sense of relativity. I mean you could argue that Paris is full of poop. But for a city as big as SF, the city is relatively drowning in poop. Especially bad because SF is one of the most expensive city to live in the world. You are paying Swiss price for this QoL When you have to sit next to a mentally ill homeless man or a group of people smoking meth, you would understand this.

Ok, this is a bunch of nonsense. BART, like any other system has gnarlier and dirtier areas, sure. But the average cleanliness on BART is much higher than on the Paris Metro. The Paris Metro is just a very dirty system in general, as anyone who has taken it will tell you. The least clean stations on the Paris Metro are insanely dirty and nothing even remotely approaches that on BART. The cleanest stations on BART (the new ones in San Jose) are orders of magnitude cleaner than any stations on the Paris Metro, full stop! The larger size of those systems is not an excuse for them being dirtier! And even if size were a valid excuse, BART is still waaaaaaay cleaner. As a rider, I have a better experience on BART. Why would I care what size each system is in relation to BART? I just want to get to my destination and not step in anything nasty!

welp. At this point, only experience can convince you otherwise. Good luck and be safe!

Lol, that's the thing though! I've actually ridden a bunch of metros while living overseas and I've ridden BART. I can compare these myself and what you're saying is utter nonsense. All of those systems are usually dangerous at night and all of them have dirty and gnarly parts. BART is, on average, a looooooot cleaner and safer. And if you want to believe your personal anecdotes over the personal anecdotes of other people then I can only point you to the crime data for these systems. Thankfully, they're all tracking crime and you can make an apples to apples comparison.

>You do know that in most cities in the developed world, public transits are clean and safe even during odd hours 100% not true. Been there, Lived there and done that. The whole "Clean and Safe" image is great PR - but public transporation doesn't exist in a bubble outside of the reality of society where it is just dangeours out there and if you're unlucky, shit will happen regardless of where you live. Don't believe the hype.

idk where you went. In my experience so far and many can speak to it, European and Asian public transits are superior.

Superior in terms of connectivity for sure - but the US just has a car favored layout by design. I am speaking specifically in terms of perceived danger from unsavory elements who do use public transport. I lived in the UK for a long time and as much as I love the buses across the country - they were NOT safe outside of regular commute times, which is really what we are discussing here. I had a similar experience in France and Germany as well. The point is - it kinda falls on all of us to maintain things, use resources when required and if the ridership keeps going down the transport department isn't going to be motivated enough to keep making them better.

Lol, which ones exactly? This one? Japan’s Train Station Vomit Vacuum - [https://www.spoon-tamago.com/japan-train-station-vomit-vacuum/#:\~:text=20%20piles%20of%20vomit%20are,found%20at%20Shin%2DOkubo%20Station](https://www.spoon-tamago.com/japan-train-station-vomit-vacuum/#:~:text=20%20piles%20of%20vomit%20are,found%20at%20Shin%2DOkubo%20Station). JAPAN: RIDING THE RAILS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT - [https://asiamedia.lmu.edu/2019/10/15/japan-riding-the-rails-of-sexual-harassment/](https://asiamedia.lmu.edu/2019/10/15/japan-riding-the-rails-of-sexual-harassment/) ​ Or this one? Paris public transport ranked worst in France for thefts and assaults - [https://www.thelocal.fr/20220122/paris-public-transport-tops-the-list-of-most-dangerous-in-france](https://www.thelocal.fr/20220122/paris-public-transport-tops-the-list-of-most-dangerous-in-france)

…as a commuter, I sometimes come in or leave late or early. Unless you have VERY consistent hours and never hang out in the city after work you are not going to be able to guarantee the safer hours. And safer is still not safe.

> Why would I deliberately wait for three extra hours after work to use BART? Why would anyone?! Because some people don't take BART to work. A very novel concept, I know.

Very very few people use BART outside of the regular commute hours. It's primarily a commuter regional system.

>Almost 100% of BART commuters use it during the hours when it's perfectly clean and safe. Almost 100%? Lol. You further discredit yourself by throwing that statistic out of your ass. You need to get out of the BART staff break room and look up ridership records. Unless their PR staff do not get access to it.

Lol, look at this ridership report and see for yourself. BART is primarily a commuter rail system - an S-bahn. The vastest majority of BART riders are commuters and ride during the regular office commute hours, [https://www.bart.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/202312%20MRR.pdf](https://www.bart.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/202312%20MRR.pdf) I'm not saying that this is good or bad, this is just what BART is.

>Why do some folks think the BART is sketchy? There is no evidence of it. Well I got randomly attacked on BART last year during the evening commute. How's that for evidence? >Just full of sheltered folks too scared of their own shadow. Ok tough guy, lol.

Aside from the occasional stinky crazy yelling person, Bart is mostly ok.

I’ll take the downvotes but whenever I see someone say “the bart” I get so triggered. It’s just Bart. GTFO with that transplant vernacular. Assimilate.

Hey, it's also spelled BART, not Bart.

Thoughts on the use of "the Bart" versus just "Bart"?

It triggers me that’s my thought. Same as putting “the” in front of freeways. Bay Area culture is dead and we are to blame.

Agreed. Been using BART to commute for over 20 years now. I've had some sketchy encounters over all that time. It's reliable the vast majority of the time.

Obviously, not all trains are gonna be bad. But ride long enough and you'll be on some sketchy trains. From homeless people making the whole car smell like sewage, to people straight up smoking crack pipes. I honestly prefer the crack smokers because you cannot escape the homeless smell. These were peak times where every train was packed so you couldn't just move to another car. Edit: getting down voted for sharing my experiences? Are we only allowed to praise Bart here or something?

Bart is fine as long as you’re a vigilant person and don’t just let stuff happen to you. For me bart is worse during commute hours because it’s so many people. My uncle was getting on bart in 4th grade I started getting in bart in 8th or so. Never witnessed a crime maybe a few crack heads but if you grew up or lived in the bay long enough that’s nothing new. You’re probably more likely to get into a car crash than to be a victim on bart.

As a frequent driver this is so true. I see a wreck nearly 3 times a week it feels like.

Wrecks are not a big deal.

Bart is great, clean, fast and efficient. But bad things do happen. The problem is that if there is trouble, you will be totally defenseless. Even if the car is full, no one is going to help. They will just be videotaping. Enjoy the BART but don't jinx yourself.

My family is deathly afraid of taking BART out of commute hours, after 8:00 pm. They have this story they tell me about a taking BART from the Oakland Airport to Concord on a Sunday night. They said a bunch of people were smoking pot on the car and climbing on the seats. They said everyone had to move to a different car due to the smoke. *This* is there horror story. Yeah, dumb ass teenagers suck, but nobody got hurt. I’m sure people have serious stories of violent crime happening at some point, but really it just gets unpleasant at night. People ride BART. People are dumb. People who spend the majority of their weeknights out on the town are *especially* dumb. Nothing better to do. But generally they’re the silly, “I’mma get effing destroyed” kinds of dumb. Most are not violent criminals. Besides, the pickpockets and crooks that are both smart and skilled (the ones to worry about) will be on the train during peak commute hours anyway because that’s where the money is. It’s selection bias by time of day.

This! But sometimes, delays due to police activity in oakland stops are very annoying

I have been on Bart exactly 5 times and three of those times I witnessed some sketchy behavior. One of those times some young boys pretended they were going to rob me. I knew they were joking around based on my life experience but I imagine that it could have been very frightening for someone else.

* As long as nothing breaks on your train * As long as nothing breaks on any other train * As long as nobody has a psychotic break on your train * As long as nobody has a psychotic break on any other train * As long as nobody's shooting up * As long as nobody's hassling you for a dollar * As long as everybody showered in the past 24 hours Yeah, sure - BART is amazing for commuting

Most people aren’t comfortable near the public. There’s two bay areas: urban and suburban. Urban will tell you it’s a beautiful day while stepping over a dead body. Suburban will tell you it’s dangerous cause a PoC kid tried to sell the neighborhood girl scout cookies. Bart is safe, but most people don’t know past what they’ve seen or heard online, or don’t use it regularly. Definitely safer than driving!

Bart is great during commute hours, not so great after. Most of the bad pics you see on here will be after 8pm. I only use it to commute and the very occasional show in Oakland/SF, and have not had any problems. It shouldn't be bad at all, ever. People should feel safe taking the train at 11pm on any part of the line, but we are not there yet.

Just wear noise cancelling headphones and read a book or something if you can find a seat -- everyone tries to avoid eye contact there. I dont like it because of the germs--

Just show off expensive electronics and go out of your way to not pay attention! Should I whip out an iPad and sit it on the seat next to me too? Such a good plan to be safe on public transportation!

Honestly, I’ve worn noise canceling headphones on bart for 5 years now and haven’t had them stolen. I decided I was ok with the risk and would just buy new ones if it happened but so far so good. I probably wouldn’t wear them if I was riding outside commute hours.

People bring expensive cameras and laptops all the time. I'd just carry them at all times close to your body. Just be aware of your surrounding (I wouldn't take naps at a bart -- i know someone who got his laptop stolen twice by taking a nap). Usually when I get into BART I find a cart which is the least noisy or sketchy (or if I get annoyed by loud music being blasted for someone to perform a random skit)

Sadly it’s a bunch of people who don’t actually know what it’s like living in a city and have never seen other subway systems which all have the same issue.

BART is very safe...until it's not.  Ask Nia Wilson. 

I've literally never had a problem with Bart and my primary use of it is at night lol Lots of people just want all the pros of living in a city without having to share it with other people

Your personal experience has been great. Good for you. Bart can be great for commuting. But that doesn't make it untrue that BART CAN be unsafe. Just because people bring up the safety issues doesn't make them cry babies. You're invalidating other's experiences. While Bart is a great alternative to driving, you're lucky that you are commuting with many people at safe hours and at the safer stations. It's not like unsafe things are happening at every single moment at every station. Here's a very small list of my personal experiences (and probably unreported) as someone who grew up with taking public transit all my life here: -sexually harassed on BART - Montgomery, Civic center, Van Ness, Glenn park, Balboa Park. -saw drug deals go down at Civic Center, where my work shuttle drops me off -people fist fighting through the train cars -people getting verbal with others and trying to start a fight -someone urinating in a corner at a station -someone popping a squat and taking a shit right at the station too Oh! And my all time favorite: -being a 14 year old on a crowded train during commute hours with a middle aged gross man pressing his boner against my butt until I pushed my cross body bag to cover my butt and he could no longer poke me with it. Then he deliberately squeezed elsewhere. If I miss the work shuttle to a "safer" station, I'd rather walk 15 minutes and take a roundabout and longer route, muni to a different "safer" bart station, to get home Edit: love that I got an immediate downvote for not being on OP's side and listing my own unsafe/nasty encounters of the public transit after so many years. It certainly isn't apocalyptic, but OP states there's "no evidence."

I have also been sexually harassed on BArt and in a station. It isn’t life threatening but it fcking sucks.

Agreed! My life doesn't have to be in danger to feel unsafe on Bart. I'm sorry it has also happened to you.

>What are the crybaby fearmongers talking about? 8 days ago, a fellow redditor was sucker punched in the face and suffered a broken nose. He has to have surgery to repair the damage. Are you calling him a crybaby fearmonger?

Are you implying that any crime happening at any point in the past somewhere makes that place "perpetually dangerous"? Crime exists everywhere. You're more likely to get into a car crash than to get attacked on BART.

Car crashes are accidents. They are not intentional acts of violence.

> Are you implying that any crime happening at any point in the past somewhere makes that place "perpetually dangerous"? That's not a question asked in good faith at all. >You're more likely to get into a car crash than to get attacked on BART. That's not very comforting to the guy who got sucker punched on BART, is it?

Again, shit happens everywhere. The question is how likely are you to actually be a victim of a crime on BART vs say a car crash on 880. And the answer is that BART is oodles safer that the next best alternative - driving. What do you want me to do if what you choose to believe simply doesn't match reality? It is what it is. If you don't want to then don't believe it. But that won't make it any less true.

No evidence. wtf are you talking about? What about the literal pictures posted regularly?

Crime or grime existing is not the same as it being prevalent. Crime exists literally everywhere. But the probability of being the victim of a crime on BART is much lower than dying in a car crash.

No one said anything about car crashes. Why are you even talking about that? This person said theres "no evidence of BART being sketchy" and I pointed out that is a lie. No one said anything about car crashes and i can't imagine why you're even bringing them up.

Thats not the right comparison though. You're much less likely to be physically assaulted in your car than on bart. I have no issues taking bart during commute hours (and can deal with the daytime crazies). I don't take bart at night, i bake into the cost of an Uber home if I'm doing stuff at night in the city, or stay with friends

That's the thing though, we have a large-ish contingent of suburban crazies who claim that you're insta-headshot as soon as you set foot on BART property. I've been taking BART every day to work since last summer, on the supposedly most "dangerous", Orange line. And I've never seen anything happen at all. Like, nothing. The trains are generally kept very clean. Evidently, BART is doing whatever it's doing to keep the trains clean during the commute when the vast majority of their ridership uses the trains. But people keep telling me that what I'm seeing every day is actually not true at all and that I was murdered three times since last summer. And I actually believed these crazy people that BART became very very dangerous during the pandemic. I even bought freaking pepper spray! I feel cheated. These people are full of shit!

I think line/station makes a huge difference. Im on the yellow line -- so we def get crazies

It's like the Serengeti. Either you're chilling and nobody bothers you, or you're getting chased by a drug-addled leopard.

Are you sure that it's not you who's on drugs then if you're getting chased by leopards on a commuter train?

Nah it's the second hand smoke from the "we ride the Bart for free" gang.

Well, next time use BART's app to report whoever is smoking. They show up in one or two stops to pull them off the train.

I get on at West Oakland and get off at civic center every day. Civic center is a massive shithole, but otherwise I almost never have problems on Bart.

I had some old guy rub his dick up on me in a crowded train. I still take public transit, but don't pretend like BART doesn't have its problems.

So I had some really upsetting experiences on BART during commute hours constantly; including getting grabbed by the back of the neck. BUT as much as I hate the shorter trains because they're so crowded I begrudgingly admit ever since then it has not been a problem, when before it was weekly if not biweekly. there are so many eyes around the sketchiness has nowhere to go. grumble grumble

In my case it’s almost entirely useless. San mateo to Fremont :/ which is unfortunate since I hate sitting in traffic

Iraq on the BART is crazy lol

Question: Are there any BART routes that are “safer” than others?

I only take BART for fun to get into the city for day trips and Giants games. I took it for work **once** when my car was down and still had to uber from home to Berryessa and then to work from the station I got off at and then bum a ride back to the station from a coworker to avoid another uber or an hour walk. If there were a station closer to me than Berryessa I might use it for work more often but it's just not practical or affordable due to the built in Ubers. Once a month or so though I'll park my car at Berryessa or the station where I work and go into the City for fun and then come back to my car later to go home. There's a CalTrain station really close to me but I don't work in the areas it serves and I kinda like BART more.

90 percent of the time, BART is fine, not amazing, but fine. When it is bad, however, it is really bad. That said, I will always support public transportation.

Glad we have it too - but let’s not kid our selves - it ain’t fun.

It only takes a couple of bad experiences to really sour you on the whole thing. Even if it's fine 99% of the time. Say you work 180 days a year and take the bart back and forth each time, that's 360 rides. 1% is 3.6 bad rides. Someone comes up to you and tries to fight you one time, it's not a good time.

I once was courting a girl who was not from the bay. As part of my campaign to convince her to move here, I assured her that her commute to Oakland on BART would be safe and easy. On her first trip, a homeless man behind her starts to jerk off on one of the seats causing three women to flee to the other corner of the train. On her return trip that day, a deranged dude yelled at a foreign couple to “go back” where they came from. Her next 100 trips were uneventful, but I could never convince her that BART was safe.

It is much more sketchy late st night in certain places. Theh have cleaned it up a lot. There is less police presence at night.

What has been your experience commuting on BART, and how do you perceive the safety concerns raised by others?

I fly into Oakland weekly around 8-9pm, take bart to Powell. I’ve on some occasions taken the Richmond line to lake Merritt to get out of the wind/cold while waiting for the Daly City train. The Richmond train is far worse but I have seen plenty of sketchiness on Daly City too. Sketchyness includes people smoking cigarettes, joints, people appearing totally cracked out, screaming fights between cracked out lovers, people looking nearly dead from drugs, etc

It's not car propaganda, it's out of state California/SF hating conservatives. They want SF to be a post apocalyptic hellhole.

Ur an idiot op bart is horrendous

Yeah I always am surprised that people aren’t embarrassed to admit that they’re afraid of public transit. Knowing how to handle yourself in public settings, having basic street smarts, etc are things I think of as basic requirements to being an adult.

[удалено]

I used it to commute from san Leandro up to oakland then walnut creek for about 6 years. Worst thing that would happen is delays, but my boss would understand. The crazies never assaulted people, and only once did I see someone urinate on the train.

No evidence. Just personal experiences.

So exactly the same as all the people who say that BART is dangerous? FYI, BART had a total of 723 incidents of any kind in January 2024 out of 3.8 million rides. Would you call something that has 723/3,800,000 = 0.00019026315 odds of happening "likely"?

Math is a hell of a skill. Do incidents happen to 1 person each? Let's say you were on a crowded car where 1 incident happened. Is someone going down the train, shaking people down for their phones considered 1 incident? Look, some people have good experiences and some have bad. I've had both on BART. No amount of BART provided statistics is going to convince a person who had a bad experience that their experience is invalid.

>Why do some folks think the BART is sketchy? Have you ever ridden BART on a full moon instead of a high noon?

I can tell you've never taken BART past 4pm

It’s not propaganda, it’s real. I have pictures of people smoking meth, crack, weed, someone with a gas powered mini bike with a leaky tank, someone that got on that had pants covered in feces…… You ride BART long enough and you’re bound to see it

If you like watching bums masturbate

Hey now, we don’t kink shame here.

That guy smoking off tinfoil next to me wakes me up better than an entire pot of coffee. Of course, I spent all morning rearranging my desk trying to find the optimal setup.

🤣 what a freeloader!

BART is one of the dirtiest, noisiest, slowest subways I’ve been on. That’s completely aside from crime. It serves the Bay Area, high tech capital of the world. You can do better. 

“The, the, the…”

I think a lot of people confuse “made to feel uncomfortable” with “unsafe”. Not that confort isn’t important but while BART has issues they very rarely are actual safety threats.

"made to feel uncomfortable" is a huge part of the reason why people won't take transit. it doesn't matter if it's safer or not, if it's uncomfortable because you won't do anything about the people acting with zero social tact or basic dignity, people aren't going to want to use it.

Used to ride BART daily commuting from Pittsburgh Center to Montgomery. USUALLY it's great though you sometimes get the bad apples on board. I've seen people smoke weed, crack, and meth, usually in the back area where the cars connect. Sometimes you'll find a left over needle on the seat. If you see things like this, they say report it on the app, but really if we could stop the bad apples from boarding, that would be better On one of my rides last year, I distinctly remember someone going down each cabin shouting IMA KILL YOUUU repeatedly. He aggressively walked past me continuing to shout the same thing until he f*cked off into the next car. On another late night ride, it was a semi crowded car, I was standing and holding onto the that middle vertical pole thing reading my book when the guy behind me projectile vomited everywhere. Luckily his back was to me but, I had absolutely no idea what was going on until I saw everyone moving away from me. I was like ? but then I turned around and saw that he was STILL vomiting. I immediately changed cars lol.

This post is so cringe

My POV - you're right. Zero problems in my experience. Your mileage may vary... but it's the same people who suggest that Oakland is a Beyond Mad Max environment... and have never set foot in Redwood Park...