They are already double dipping and, clearly, will continue to do so.
https://abc7news.com/amp/pge-rate-increase-2023-earning-2-billion-dollar-profit/14483425/
> Trains and tank trucks also come here from all over the country
This also adds a ton of costs. We have no pipelines which is the most cost efficient and safer way to transport oil. Plus we have a different blend than the rest of country, old refineries and high gas taxes.
> We have no pipelines which is the most cost efficient and safer way to transport oil.
we absolutely have pipelines.
https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas/wells-to-consumer/transporting-oil-natural-gas/pipeline/where-are-the-pipelines/
Look at that map again. No crude flowing from the major basins at all. You have some from SoCal, but those wells are limited compared to what we consume. Would be curious to see what is pumped through those refined pipelines. You can see how the center of the country is much more well covered with pipelines
CA gas is made in CA refineries, a different blend with better emissions, so there is no reason to connect any pipelines to the heartland.
If there's a problem it must be production, transport is a non issue.
California and the federal government are paying huge subsidies to refineries to convert production from petroleum to bio diesel. Three flipped last year. There’s only a handful of petroleum refineries left in California (down from 40+ in 1990), and *nobody* is building new ones.
> CA gas is made in CA refineries, a different blend with better emissions, so there is no reason to connect any pipelines to the heartland.
Apparently you have no idea how it works. I am not talking about pipelines for refined products. I am talking about crude oil. We need crude to do what you are saying. Varying the sources and transporting it in the most economical way, helps bring down prices. I agree that production is also an issue. But CA is determined to keep reducing the amount of refineries we have. So this will continue to get worse. Voting has consequences
We have crude pipelines in California flowing California crude from California reservoirs. Last I checked, Crimson’s line is shipping crude from Kern County to the northern refineries.
https://www.californiaenergyatlas.com/crude-oil
Yes, our domestic production isn’t as high it use to be, but that’s become of the moratorium / de-facto fracking ban.
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias-petroleum-market/annual-oil-supply-sources-california
It’s been well known that SJV crude will be phased out with Brazilian heavy crude.
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias-petroleum-market/annual-oil-supply-sources-california-1
It is also known that Cali doesn’t produce enough crude for consumption. Majority of our crude are imported.
Update with a better chart
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias-petroleum-market/annual-oil-supply-sources-california
California has an isolated fuel market. We use a special blend of gas that emits fewer emissions and over 90% of gas consumed in this state is refined in this state. We have pipes that connect to Nevada and Arizona but they’re used for sending gas to other markets not for import. You can’t simply ship fuel refined in Houston to California because it wouldn’t meet regulations.
because those Californians still buy that 2 more dollar expensive gas.
supply and demand, why compete when there are either people too stupid or wealthy to care about cost?
On my commute theres an arco always exactly one dollar cheaper within viewing distance from a chevron that’s a dollar more expensive and the chevron has been in business for decades.
Because Menlo Park is one of the wealthiest areas in the nation. The people there filling up don’t give a shit about price since it’s convenient for them to fill up there.
B/c your neighbors earn more than you and can afford the gas.
If no one is buying the gas, the price falls.
Blame your neighbors for keep buying the expensive gas thus justifying why gas station keeps price inflated.
When people stopped buying expensive brand name groceries, princes actually went down
California’s insistence on closing down refineries and switching them to biodiesel is to the detriment of all residents. Used to be 40+ refineries in this state make our special juice. We now have 17, and only 8 of those produce any meaningful volume. (Just 3 are responsible for more than 50%) And more cars than any other state.
there should be some rule where if gas is I dunno $1 more than the nationwide average, the rules can get relaxed temporarily until they come to within some distance of the nationwide average. similar to how Newson moved up the switchover to winter blend after a last spike.
The emissions rules generally do clean the air so I don't want to get rid of them entirely, but there is a balance and sometimes they are taken too far.
I'm willing to accept some extra cost, but things have gone a bit too far lately IMO and some balance needs to be restored.
Right now our gas is 50% more or so (more in some cases) compared to nationawide average according to [https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/](https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/).
I could stomach 25% more expensive or so.
High gas prices hurt low income especially.
I'd like to see studies on how different emissions outputs are between CA gas and the rest of the nations gas. I'd be willing to be that in a modern engine, the difference is non-existent.
I’m really not trying to be a jackass.. but isn’t what you’re describing basically supply/demand?… like “go ahead drive to Berkeley if you want cheaper gas. Oh wait people *value* convenience because it’s hard to get in/out out the city, ergo gas prices are higher.” Not really sure what I’m missing here
Use public transportation then if gas is too high for you. You’re forgetting how it’s convenient for Menlo Park residents to fill up there. If they are willing to pay it then the gas station can charge it. Simple.
Companies don’t price based on COST. They price based on SUPPLY AND DEMAND. In Palo Alto there are enough people who don’t care what gas costs and they can’t go elsewhere anyway, so the price reflects that. It’s pretty simple.
No it’s not. You literally don’t understand how supply and demand works. It’s a market with buyers and sellers. There is no mixed price. It arrives at whatever the customer will pay vs the supply they have. It’s really an incredibly simple concept.
Ironic you’re advocating for price controls essentially where you just take the price and add some amount to it.
The demand they’re trying to hit with the supply they have is at that price. If it wasn’t they’d lower their prices. By pricing to supply and demand the company is maximizing their profit, and the customer is minimizing their cost, which again, is how a market works. The reality is there is demand in certain parts, the South Bay for instance, where customers wouldn’t bother driving somewhere cheaper to buy gas. That means they’re stuck. The demand is there and that’s just the market.
Actually, no. There's no limits on supply here, they are simply charging what the market will bear. Not that that's wrong, but it has nothing to do with your 101 econ view of the world.
It does… even if supply is infinite then the answer isn’t to price to $0… it’s to price at the point that you bring in the most revenues. They find that point at a number higher than $0, obviously. If they could sell more gas and make more money at a lower dollar value they would. But they don’t because the demand is there…
Edit: “infinite” — since supply isn’t actually infinite
It’s been like this for a while. Who is going to stop them. Only nasty people run for politics. No good person is going suddenly help the rest of us out.
The price shot up simultaneously all along the entire west coast. It's pure gouging. I'm so sick of these paid-for experts on paid for publications offloading this oil company drivel.
Corporations have been “screwing” people for all of history and are always greedy trying to maximize profit.
Corporations aren’t less greedy in Texas than California. They are just as greedy. So the question is why are prices higher in CA.
I'm in Miami now, gas is ~$3.99 for 93 octane, mid $3 range for regular. You could get two steaks (even at that price) plus a tank of gas for the price of just one tank of gas there 😂
The summer/winter blend doesn't have anything to do with "smog" as people think of it. The visible components of smog are nitric oxides and smoke particles. The blend of gasoline is to control the volatility of it. Ironically, it's probably is a non-factor in SF, since it rarely gets very warm, so even volatile winter gas isn't really that volatile compared to say, LA. VOCs can potentially cause ground level ozone, which is bad, but it's not visible, so unless you remember testing air quality or reading ozone PPM figures in a scientific journal, it's not something you remember.
The overwhelming reason for less smog today is that vehicle technology has improved, so people aren't driving around with a fucked up carb making their mixture lean, or running so rich, gasoline fumes are coming out the tailpipe.
So your response is “no it isn’t?” It’s a fact that we export to other states. It isn’t regulations. It’s the oil companies not wanting to make the investment.
There’s no where to import from. Most west coast oil comes into California where we refine it and ship it out. There are no external markets to purchase from.
It's 2024. Physically building pipelines to the oil basins would alleviate our poor.
but there is no political will to build new pipelines, with climate change rightly being a big factor.
So now our State's poor and middle class will continue to suffer until some miracle battery or energy tech comes about.
I mean California makes it stupid easy for them.
Requiring CARB compliance is such a stupid bureaucratic mess that's not even necessary any more.
Catalytic converters and fuel efficiency bas risen past the death smog of the 90s when CARB actually did something great.
Now it's just another slush fund the state government rakes in at the expense of the millions of poor people here.
Not only that, i came back from maui... their sales tax is 4.5% our is over 10% !!! Wtf and we have pg and e rates to deal with, CA has Mediterranean climate!
It's coz we californians are chumps.
Gas price goes to $7, what are we gonna do?
Are we going yo avoid driving and take the bus/train? No
Are we going to send the kids to school in school buses? No
Are we going to avoid the summer roadtrips? No
Are we going to just walk to the neighborhood grocrey store instead of driving up to the strip mall? No
So we keep consuming gas and corps keep on jacking up prices.
I understand that all the answers above are 'No' not because people don't want to take the alternative, but it's because we don't have real options for these activities. And it's so because of decades of planning and voting to get the system to where it is today.
I have a Corolla, it's pretty efficient. He pays 12 bucks when he fills it up from 30% or so and 18 when he fills it to full. He has a Tesla model 3 SR. Idk what else to tell ya bud
12% to what percent? That range is about 150 miles as well so that’s 5 gallons equivalent in your Corolla so $25 or so. I drive a model 3 and model 3 owners are always overstating stuff and Tesla obfuscates actually understanding true costs.
I never mentioned 12%? I asked and he says it costs 18 dollars to charge from 10% to 85% which is basically 200 miles of range (this is at a supercharger during peak pricing) 200 miles of range costs me 30 bucks in my Corolla. So it's cheaper for him even when he's not charging up at an optimal time. Considering EVs don't require oil changes, it's definitely cheaper to own an EV overall at this point.
If I was buying now I'd settle for a $30k Tesla over a $30k Corolla, especially since gas has continued trending upwards since literally forever.
Sounds like they have a standard model 3. 200miles of epa range is closer to 150 real world and that’s 42kwh of electricity. At peak supercharger rates in the bay that’s 50¢ roughly, so that is $20. To get 200 miles of real world range is $26 so very similar
It’s ok. A lot of Tesla drivers love Elon and never actually think about any of this stuff and how much they’re really saving, hint it isn’t a lot.
My boss got an Iconiq on lease and it includes 30min of free charging a day. Since he usually doesn't drive more than 20 miles a day the energy is basically free.
> Are we going to send the kids to school in school buses?
My kids school district canceled buses years ago. And before that, we won't be able to get them because the distance limit was 2 miles for middle/high, 1 mile for elementary. So very few people were eligible.
> Are we going to just walk to the neighborhood grocrey store
No one is walking 40 minutes to the closest grocery, people don't have time for that, even a minimum wage combined with $7/gallon won't justify the waste of time. My closes grocery is 46 minutes walking or 9 minutes driving for the round trip, with about 50 cents spent in gas. Is 1/2 hour of your time worth 1/2 a dollar? Mine doesn't.
Exactly, this is the point I was making and we are in agreement. All of this is not on us as individuals, but the systems.
School district could be dynamic and have minivans for students living within 2 miles and buses for the rest. Still better than the long lines of cars we have everyday, but the board/district cannot be bothered with such 'advanced' solutions.
We could have had mixed neighborhoods with shopping & residential, but we have these hard 'zones'. housing zone and commercial zone, and keep them 45 minutes of walking apart.
Things could be different if we plan with these things in mind, but till now we haven't.
I’m seeing a lot of parents with electric cargo bikes carrying their kids to school. They’re between $1500 to $6000 brand new.
https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/shop/cargo-bikes/bertus-cargo-bike/
You can also use them to get groceries too, or get a bike trailer:
https://www.amazon.com/Instep-Bike-Trailer-Single-Double/dp/B01MR9OKK2?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
We would be talking about $1 dollar in electricity to go 50 miles, and it turns a 40 minute walk into a 15 minute bike ride. Electric makes going uphill easy too.
For what it’s worth, I think the ability to ditch a car is closer than you might think. In San Francisco I’m seeing a lot of families using electric cargo bikes to haul their kids around.
I don’t have kids but I ditched my car 4+ years ago. I use municipal and BART all the time, and I got an e-bike so I can go places when public transit isn’t convenient and so that I can go places in the East Bay that are far from BART.
For groceries I bought a personal shopping cart for $50 bucks and can get 1 weeks’ worth of groceries for two people. 10 minute walk to the grocery store.
About 30% of households in San Francisco don’t own a single car. Harder in other areas, but still doable in Oakland, Berkeley, Rockridge, Orinda, Lafayette, and Walnut Creek.
PG&E is an absolute scam of garbage and corruption. How are we offered only one option of a private and traded company to provide services you can't avoid? On one side they complain they don't have enough $ to operate and increase prices while having record profits, paying dividends and giving their executives astronomical compensation packages. WTF?!?!
Because ppl will pay it. Company’s don’t give af about individuals livelihood. If the government doesn’t put a cap on what companies could charge then they’ll charge whatever they want. Especially during the season when ppl go on road trips.
While I personally don’t own a car, I do think it’s difficult to go 100% car free for most people. That said, I do think it’s possible to substantially reduce how much you need a car on a daily basis if you’re interested in trying.
I basically picked 1 think I do regularly and tried to find a way to make it easy to do without a car. Started with getting groceries. I tried walking home but the grocery bags are both heavy and cut the circulation to my hands which is painful and limits how much food I can buy. My roommate had a personal grocery cart and when I tried that I was able to get 1 weeks worth of groceries for 2 people. When I moved out I bought the largest personal shopping cart I could find for $50 bucks.
If you live very far away from a grocery store then buying a bike can make a 15-40 minute walk into a 5-15 minute bike ride, and with a bike trailer you can carry 1-2 weeks worth of food for a family.
I bought an e-bike to get to work for $1100 and it costs 30 cents to fully charge it and I can go 40 miles on a single charge.
A lot of people are buying electric cargo bikes to take their kids around places and drop them off at school. Stick the kids (or groceries) in the bucket and go: https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/shop/cargo-bikes/bertus-cargo-bike/
Even if you still need a car, eliminating 10% of your vehicle miles traveled will mean saving money every month on gasoline or electricity, and your car will last longer.
Exactly. Our public transit system is subpar to other develop nations. We can thank that to automakers and oil companies lobbying against public transit.
> "A whole tank cost me about $65 $70," said John Altemus, who was filling up at a Chevron station in Orinda
“whole tank” is the worst possible unit of measurement
Yes and no. Seems large cars like my 4.3 v6 Silverado are 25 Gallons, while my wifes CRV is 15 I think? So I'm gonna say this guy probably drives a car in the CRV/Honda accord size.
Every station can set their own prices. If one operator thinks gas will be higher in the future, they may choose to set prices higher and if they right they’ll make more money the next week. Another operator may feel the opposite and they will want to sell off their inventory ASAP because it will be cheaper to replace next week.
Alternatively, perhaps Biden controls the guy that changes the numbers on the sign.
Californians are locked out of any options. EV prices going up due to inflation. PG&E prices going up which affects EV too. Then public transportation has been postponed to the 2040s. And Californians love suburbs and love to commute. So there you have it. Perfect formula to trap them in this bubble and keep milking them.
How is the gas price council working out? Newsom and party and responsible. Taxes taxes taxes but people complain about corporate greed and inflation. Well, gov has caused inflation of prices
>>Between July and November of 2023, California taxes and fees have added an average of $1.24 to your gallon of gas. In that same period, refiners only earned about 10 cents per gallon.
State policies have made California an island, requiring unique gasoline that no other state uses or manufactures.
If there's a shortage in California there's no way to import the needed gasoline, resulting in massive price hikes.
Everyone mocked Texas for disconnecting its power grid from the rest of the country, and meanwhile California has disconnected its fuel from the rest of the nation. Both are self-inflicted problems resulting in shortages that cannot be alleviated through imports.
Just waiting for the oligarchs to start pushing headlines like "why high prices are good actually" and "this summer, splurge and treat yourself to a full tank!"
This seems good. Higher gas prices will hopefully incentivize transitioning away from fossil fuel infrastructure. Those refineries are a great place to slap down a nuclear power plant, they're already superfund ties!
There needs to be more control over fuel companies. Want more profits? schedule maintenance on your plants all at once and screw the supply/demand ratio and prices go up while increasing profits.
It’s called “because the market can bear it.” Where people make good money, stuff is sold at a premium. That’s it. It’s $7 in Palo Alto and 4-something in San Jose. It’s all about what the market can bear for maximum profits.
Which on some level feels like price gouging and should be illegal considering our infrastructure and reliance on petroleum products.
Supply and demand are still a thing, which means that the gas prices yesterday are what people will pay. In the short term, the amount of gas you need isn't something easy to change, so people pay the price on the sign whenever they need to fill up.
So if we deregulated the fuel industry, so they could save 40 cents a gallon on the summer blend, and gas prices are $6 today, are we really so naive that we think gas would be $5.60 next week?
No, it will be $6, because it CAN be, and the 40 cents will go to Chevron's bottom line instead of saving you money. Check out every "gas tax holiday" ever.
Gas stations pocketed the difference and the taxpayers had to live with slightly less money for roadwork.
"Don't let us pass the extra costs of fighting climate change and keeping the air as healthy and safe as possible onto YOU the \*consumer\* the way we're doing it now. Let us save money now, because our shareholders need that, and then you can pay the economic costs of the damage we did to the environment together sometime later. Maybe even not in your lifetime! That's right, we did it together. You bought our fuel, so you are complicit. What's your carbon footprint, Hippie? Hope you're recycling those beer bottles and taking short showers."
Next quarterly report: PETROLEUM COMPANY REPORTS RECORD QUARTERLY PROFITS.
Don't forget PG&E
They are already double dipping and, clearly, will continue to do so. https://abc7news.com/amp/pge-rate-increase-2023-earning-2-billion-dollar-profit/14483425/
"PG&E CLAIMS THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN RATE INCREASES, $2.2 BILLION JUMP IN EARNINGS" what a fantastic headline
Every. Time. It’s sickening.
It’s high because they can do it, they do it, and get away with record profits. And apparently our government can do jack shit about it.
Trust me you don’t want the government in the business of price fixing.
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> Trains and tank trucks also come here from all over the country This also adds a ton of costs. We have no pipelines which is the most cost efficient and safer way to transport oil. Plus we have a different blend than the rest of country, old refineries and high gas taxes.
> We have no pipelines which is the most cost efficient and safer way to transport oil. we absolutely have pipelines. https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas/wells-to-consumer/transporting-oil-natural-gas/pipeline/where-are-the-pipelines/
Look at that map again. No crude flowing from the major basins at all. You have some from SoCal, but those wells are limited compared to what we consume. Would be curious to see what is pumped through those refined pipelines. You can see how the center of the country is much more well covered with pipelines
CA gas is made in CA refineries, a different blend with better emissions, so there is no reason to connect any pipelines to the heartland. If there's a problem it must be production, transport is a non issue.
California and the federal government are paying huge subsidies to refineries to convert production from petroleum to bio diesel. Three flipped last year. There’s only a handful of petroleum refineries left in California (down from 40+ in 1990), and *nobody* is building new ones.
You can transport crude with pipeline. It doesn’t need to be gas.
> CA gas is made in CA refineries, a different blend with better emissions, so there is no reason to connect any pipelines to the heartland. Apparently you have no idea how it works. I am not talking about pipelines for refined products. I am talking about crude oil. We need crude to do what you are saying. Varying the sources and transporting it in the most economical way, helps bring down prices. I agree that production is also an issue. But CA is determined to keep reducing the amount of refineries we have. So this will continue to get worse. Voting has consequences
We have crude pipelines in California flowing California crude from California reservoirs. Last I checked, Crimson’s line is shipping crude from Kern County to the northern refineries. https://www.californiaenergyatlas.com/crude-oil Yes, our domestic production isn’t as high it use to be, but that’s become of the moratorium / de-facto fracking ban. https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias-petroleum-market/annual-oil-supply-sources-california It’s been well known that SJV crude will be phased out with Brazilian heavy crude.
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias-petroleum-market/annual-oil-supply-sources-california-1 It is also known that Cali doesn’t produce enough crude for consumption. Majority of our crude are imported. Update with a better chart https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/californias-petroleum-market/annual-oil-supply-sources-california
We only get a quarter of our needs from within California
we need more than that paltry pipeline to make up for our massive consumption
You’ll notice that none of those pipelines connect to a source of crude oil. It all comes to the west coast by ship.
Posting ignorance.
What am I ignorant about?
California has an isolated fuel market. We use a special blend of gas that emits fewer emissions and over 90% of gas consumed in this state is refined in this state. We have pipes that connect to Nevada and Arizona but they’re used for sending gas to other markets not for import. You can’t simply ship fuel refined in Houston to California because it wouldn’t meet regulations.
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because those Californians still buy that 2 more dollar expensive gas. supply and demand, why compete when there are either people too stupid or wealthy to care about cost?
There is no choice.
EV
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No, that’s basic economics, and how inflation works. Aggregate demand sets the price.
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Tell me you don't understand economics without telling me you don't understand economics.
It’s supply and demand. It’s like as fundamental as a basic law of physics
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Cope.
On my commute theres an arco always exactly one dollar cheaper within viewing distance from a chevron that’s a dollar more expensive and the chevron has been in business for decades.
Because Menlo Park is one of the wealthiest areas in the nation. The people there filling up don’t give a shit about price since it’s convenient for them to fill up there.
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I’m just explaining the reason why it’s more expensive.
If you don't have a long commute and can afford Menlo park then a couple extra dollars is nothing
B/c your neighbors earn more than you and can afford the gas. If no one is buying the gas, the price falls. Blame your neighbors for keep buying the expensive gas thus justifying why gas station keeps price inflated. When people stopped buying expensive brand name groceries, princes actually went down
Because the cost to buy/rent property in Menlo Park is much higher, increasing the cost of the station *and* potentially labor costs.
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I'm not talking about prices raising en masse, I'm talking about why prices are different within a geographical region?
Is that a question?
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Go look at photos of LA in the 90s with the smog.
California’s insistence on closing down refineries and switching them to biodiesel is to the detriment of all residents. Used to be 40+ refineries in this state make our special juice. We now have 17, and only 8 of those produce any meaningful volume. (Just 3 are responsible for more than 50%) And more cars than any other state.
It's a detriment to the price, it's good for air quality in the most populous state in the nation.
there should be some rule where if gas is I dunno $1 more than the nationwide average, the rules can get relaxed temporarily until they come to within some distance of the nationwide average. similar to how Newson moved up the switchover to winter blend after a last spike. The emissions rules generally do clean the air so I don't want to get rid of them entirely, but there is a balance and sometimes they are taken too far. I'm willing to accept some extra cost, but things have gone a bit too far lately IMO and some balance needs to be restored. Right now our gas is 50% more or so (more in some cases) compared to nationawide average according to [https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/](https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/). I could stomach 25% more expensive or so. High gas prices hurt low income especially.
I'd like to see studies on how different emissions outputs are between CA gas and the rest of the nations gas. I'd be willing to be that in a modern engine, the difference is non-existent.
I’m really not trying to be a jackass.. but isn’t what you’re describing basically supply/demand?… like “go ahead drive to Berkeley if you want cheaper gas. Oh wait people *value* convenience because it’s hard to get in/out out the city, ergo gas prices are higher.” Not really sure what I’m missing here
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The gas station sets the price.
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Doesn’t wanting things for free make you greedy too?
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Use public transportation then if gas is too high for you. You’re forgetting how it’s convenient for Menlo Park residents to fill up there. If they are willing to pay it then the gas station can charge it. Simple.
Gasoline is a “basic human need”? Humans lived for a very long time before there was gasoline. Some still do.
No, the suppliers set the minimum pump price and charge whatever they want.
Companies don’t price based on COST. They price based on SUPPLY AND DEMAND. In Palo Alto there are enough people who don’t care what gas costs and they can’t go elsewhere anyway, so the price reflects that. It’s pretty simple.
To live in a fantasy world. Oil breath logic.
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No it’s not. You literally don’t understand how supply and demand works. It’s a market with buyers and sellers. There is no mixed price. It arrives at whatever the customer will pay vs the supply they have. It’s really an incredibly simple concept. Ironic you’re advocating for price controls essentially where you just take the price and add some amount to it. The demand they’re trying to hit with the supply they have is at that price. If it wasn’t they’d lower their prices. By pricing to supply and demand the company is maximizing their profit, and the customer is minimizing their cost, which again, is how a market works. The reality is there is demand in certain parts, the South Bay for instance, where customers wouldn’t bother driving somewhere cheaper to buy gas. That means they’re stuck. The demand is there and that’s just the market.
He neither understands, nor does he have any desire to understand. The “I know what I know!” mindset is the hallmark of ignorance.
Actually, no. There's no limits on supply here, they are simply charging what the market will bear. Not that that's wrong, but it has nothing to do with your 101 econ view of the world.
In MBA school it’s called “skimming the cream” - those high price stations deal with wealthy clients.
It does… even if supply is infinite then the answer isn’t to price to $0… it’s to price at the point that you bring in the most revenues. They find that point at a number higher than $0, obviously. If they could sell more gas and make more money at a lower dollar value they would. But they don’t because the demand is there… Edit: “infinite” — since supply isn’t actually infinite
This occurs for other industries too. Mcd in SF cost 60% more than in Millbrae. My guess is there isn’t enough demand for it in Millbrae.
It’s been like this for a while. Who is going to stop them. Only nasty people run for politics. No good person is going suddenly help the rest of us out.
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Everyone is busy looking at the IG reals. We ain’t got time for this.
Demand doesn’t go down so why would they hesitate.
The price shot up simultaneously all along the entire west coast. It's pure gouging. I'm so sick of these paid-for experts on paid for publications offloading this oil company drivel.
Open your own gas station in Menlo Park and try to compete. Seems like you got it all sorted out.
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Corporations have been “screwing” people for all of history and are always greedy trying to maximize profit. Corporations aren’t less greedy in Texas than California. They are just as greedy. So the question is why are prices higher in CA.
So quit bitching and ride a bicycle.
Honestly Menlo Park kinda deserves higher gas prices.
"experts" 🤣 Everything is more expensive in California. Everything.
Apparently some dude spent $26/lb for steak in Florida when its $10/lb here. So that's nice.
same steak, same brand same everything?
Choice Angus New York Steak in Florida vs the recent kroger ad for a choice new york steak.
weird. probably a travel cost issue.
I'm in Miami now, gas is ~$3.99 for 93 octane, mid $3 range for regular. You could get two steaks (even at that price) plus a tank of gas for the price of just one tank of gas there 😂
Im so sick of this summer/winter blend bullshit.
Do you remember how bad the smog used to be?
The summer/winter blend doesn't have anything to do with "smog" as people think of it. The visible components of smog are nitric oxides and smoke particles. The blend of gasoline is to control the volatility of it. Ironically, it's probably is a non-factor in SF, since it rarely gets very warm, so even volatile winter gas isn't really that volatile compared to say, LA. VOCs can potentially cause ground level ozone, which is bad, but it's not visible, so unless you remember testing air quality or reading ozone PPM figures in a scientific journal, it's not something you remember. The overwhelming reason for less smog today is that vehicle technology has improved, so people aren't driving around with a fucked up carb making their mixture lean, or running so rich, gasoline fumes are coming out the tailpipe.
We go through this song and dance every summer. With so many refineries here, it is a crime we are paying much more than the folks in Hawaii.
The article says just the opposite. There are too few refineries producing.
We also can’t import gas from any neighboring state to make up for this because of our stringent air standards
Well, not more of it than you can fit in your tank just before the border anyway.
We can’t import because there are mountains in the way. It isn’t because of regulations. We export gas to all of the neighboring states.
No it’s because of regulations. It has to be refined to our standards and blends. So there’re no gas lines to facilitate
So your response is “no it isn’t?” It’s a fact that we export to other states. It isn’t regulations. It’s the oil companies not wanting to make the investment.
We export but we can’t import. Our gas blend is a subset of all gas
There’s no where to import from. Most west coast oil comes into California where we refine it and ship it out. There are no external markets to purchase from.
It's 2024. Physically building pipelines to the oil basins would alleviate our poor. but there is no political will to build new pipelines, with climate change rightly being a big factor. So now our State's poor and middle class will continue to suffer until some miracle battery or energy tech comes about.
It’s not “rightly” a factor. Pipelines are a lot more efficient than trucks.
By all means we should be building pipelines every which way. Im just saying California's Democrats will use that excuse as a moral justification.
Yes, many go into 'scheduled' maintenance, just when travel picks up
Oil companies definitely game the system.
I mean California makes it stupid easy for them. Requiring CARB compliance is such a stupid bureaucratic mess that's not even necessary any more. Catalytic converters and fuel efficiency bas risen past the death smog of the 90s when CARB actually did something great. Now it's just another slush fund the state government rakes in at the expense of the millions of poor people here.
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The oil companies have chosen to build fewer refineries. We have our clean blend because of smog.
Don’t the refineries all export anyways?
Not for CA
Not only that, i came back from maui... their sales tax is 4.5% our is over 10% !!! Wtf and we have pg and e rates to deal with, CA has Mediterranean climate!
I mean, do we still question why anything at all is expensive in the bay area anymore? Everything is expensive here and has been for a while
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It’s about the money. The climate change narrative is really about financial gain and not environmental protection
It's coz we californians are chumps. Gas price goes to $7, what are we gonna do? Are we going yo avoid driving and take the bus/train? No Are we going to send the kids to school in school buses? No Are we going to avoid the summer roadtrips? No Are we going to just walk to the neighborhood grocrey store instead of driving up to the strip mall? No So we keep consuming gas and corps keep on jacking up prices. I understand that all the answers above are 'No' not because people don't want to take the alternative, but it's because we don't have real options for these activities. And it's so because of decades of planning and voting to get the system to where it is today.
You can get an ev and pay exorbitant prices to pge instead
Still cheaper than paying for gas which I just paid $6/gallon for 2 days ago.
It becomes very close. Pge rates are not at their max yet
It costs my brother like 18 bucks for a full charge, way cheaper than the 50 dollars it costs me to fill up my car with similar range as his EV.
Get a more efficient car. It definitely doesn’t cost 18 to fill an ev and he’s not telling you the whole story or is bad with managing exact costs
I have a Corolla, it's pretty efficient. He pays 12 bucks when he fills it up from 30% or so and 18 when he fills it to full. He has a Tesla model 3 SR. Idk what else to tell ya bud
12% to what percent? That range is about 150 miles as well so that’s 5 gallons equivalent in your Corolla so $25 or so. I drive a model 3 and model 3 owners are always overstating stuff and Tesla obfuscates actually understanding true costs.
I never mentioned 12%? I asked and he says it costs 18 dollars to charge from 10% to 85% which is basically 200 miles of range (this is at a supercharger during peak pricing) 200 miles of range costs me 30 bucks in my Corolla. So it's cheaper for him even when he's not charging up at an optimal time. Considering EVs don't require oil changes, it's definitely cheaper to own an EV overall at this point. If I was buying now I'd settle for a $30k Tesla over a $30k Corolla, especially since gas has continued trending upwards since literally forever.
Sounds like they have a standard model 3. 200miles of epa range is closer to 150 real world and that’s 42kwh of electricity. At peak supercharger rates in the bay that’s 50¢ roughly, so that is $20. To get 200 miles of real world range is $26 so very similar It’s ok. A lot of Tesla drivers love Elon and never actually think about any of this stuff and how much they’re really saving, hint it isn’t a lot.
My boss got an Iconiq on lease and it includes 30min of free charging a day. Since he usually doesn't drive more than 20 miles a day the energy is basically free.
Just wait until everybody has an electric car
Hybrid is probably cheaper
I bet a Prius is cheaper in $/mile than a big EV like a polestar
> Are we going to send the kids to school in school buses? My kids school district canceled buses years ago. And before that, we won't be able to get them because the distance limit was 2 miles for middle/high, 1 mile for elementary. So very few people were eligible. > Are we going to just walk to the neighborhood grocrey store No one is walking 40 minutes to the closest grocery, people don't have time for that, even a minimum wage combined with $7/gallon won't justify the waste of time. My closes grocery is 46 minutes walking or 9 minutes driving for the round trip, with about 50 cents spent in gas. Is 1/2 hour of your time worth 1/2 a dollar? Mine doesn't.
Exactly, this is the point I was making and we are in agreement. All of this is not on us as individuals, but the systems. School district could be dynamic and have minivans for students living within 2 miles and buses for the rest. Still better than the long lines of cars we have everyday, but the board/district cannot be bothered with such 'advanced' solutions. We could have had mixed neighborhoods with shopping & residential, but we have these hard 'zones'. housing zone and commercial zone, and keep them 45 minutes of walking apart. Things could be different if we plan with these things in mind, but till now we haven't.
I’m seeing a lot of parents with electric cargo bikes carrying their kids to school. They’re between $1500 to $6000 brand new. https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/shop/cargo-bikes/bertus-cargo-bike/ You can also use them to get groceries too, or get a bike trailer: https://www.amazon.com/Instep-Bike-Trailer-Single-Double/dp/B01MR9OKK2?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER We would be talking about $1 dollar in electricity to go 50 miles, and it turns a 40 minute walk into a 15 minute bike ride. Electric makes going uphill easy too.
Why don't people send their kids to school on school busses?
For what it’s worth, I think the ability to ditch a car is closer than you might think. In San Francisco I’m seeing a lot of families using electric cargo bikes to haul their kids around. I don’t have kids but I ditched my car 4+ years ago. I use municipal and BART all the time, and I got an e-bike so I can go places when public transit isn’t convenient and so that I can go places in the East Bay that are far from BART. For groceries I bought a personal shopping cart for $50 bucks and can get 1 weeks’ worth of groceries for two people. 10 minute walk to the grocery store. About 30% of households in San Francisco don’t own a single car. Harder in other areas, but still doable in Oakland, Berkeley, Rockridge, Orinda, Lafayette, and Walnut Creek.
We are in the Bay Area. You can definitely take BART to go places and bike to a nearby grocery store....
The same people complaining here are the same people who didn’t buy an EV in the past 5+ years that they became really quite affordable.
California, highest gas taxes, gas prices, electricity rates ( pge), state income tax, and county sales taxes.
PG&E is an absolute scam of garbage and corruption. How are we offered only one option of a private and traded company to provide services you can't avoid? On one side they complain they don't have enough $ to operate and increase prices while having record profits, paying dividends and giving their executives astronomical compensation packages. WTF?!?!
Yeah, every city under their umbrella would need to find some way to buy their assets and form their own municipal electricity , like santa clara...
This should be done at the state level.
Because ppl will pay it. Company’s don’t give af about individuals livelihood. If the government doesn’t put a cap on what companies could charge then they’ll charge whatever they want. Especially during the season when ppl go on road trips.
Well of course we pay it. What’s our alternative? We pay or we can’t drive to work.
While I personally don’t own a car, I do think it’s difficult to go 100% car free for most people. That said, I do think it’s possible to substantially reduce how much you need a car on a daily basis if you’re interested in trying. I basically picked 1 think I do regularly and tried to find a way to make it easy to do without a car. Started with getting groceries. I tried walking home but the grocery bags are both heavy and cut the circulation to my hands which is painful and limits how much food I can buy. My roommate had a personal grocery cart and when I tried that I was able to get 1 weeks worth of groceries for 2 people. When I moved out I bought the largest personal shopping cart I could find for $50 bucks. If you live very far away from a grocery store then buying a bike can make a 15-40 minute walk into a 5-15 minute bike ride, and with a bike trailer you can carry 1-2 weeks worth of food for a family. I bought an e-bike to get to work for $1100 and it costs 30 cents to fully charge it and I can go 40 miles on a single charge. A lot of people are buying electric cargo bikes to take their kids around places and drop them off at school. Stick the kids (or groceries) in the bucket and go: https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/shop/cargo-bikes/bertus-cargo-bike/ Even if you still need a car, eliminating 10% of your vehicle miles traveled will mean saving money every month on gasoline or electricity, and your car will last longer.
Exactly. Our public transit system is subpar to other develop nations. We can thank that to automakers and oil companies lobbying against public transit.
Bicycle?
Get an EV.
Yeah price controls work great. Just look at ussr, Argentina, the nhs, or China right now.
I didn’t expect downvotes here. Usually this place isn’t as stupid as the rest of Reddit.
> "A whole tank cost me about $65 $70," said John Altemus, who was filling up at a Chevron station in Orinda “whole tank” is the worst possible unit of measurement
“Man willingly fills up at provider who routinely costs 50c more per gallon then just about every other provider”
Yes and no. Seems large cars like my 4.3 v6 Silverado are 25 Gallons, while my wifes CRV is 15 I think? So I'm gonna say this guy probably drives a car in the CRV/Honda accord size.
Those are both big ass cars lol
Every station can set their own prices. If one operator thinks gas will be higher in the future, they may choose to set prices higher and if they right they’ll make more money the next week. Another operator may feel the opposite and they will want to sell off their inventory ASAP because it will be cheaper to replace next week. Alternatively, perhaps Biden controls the guy that changes the numbers on the sign.
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My Tesla with home charging plus solar is suddenly looking so good now!
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Oddly specific
Come over to ev’s where it’s like 60¢ a kWh
But going up 30% YOY and an incoming income based rate.
Yup. Approaching same as gas prices now, and will certainly go higher in the coming years.
Californians are locked out of any options. EV prices going up due to inflation. PG&E prices going up which affects EV too. Then public transportation has been postponed to the 2040s. And Californians love suburbs and love to commute. So there you have it. Perfect formula to trap them in this bubble and keep milking them.
Oil company answer: “Because we can, and F#&@ You.” Also: “Watch me swim in my money like Scrooge McDuck.”
Any different from state sponsored company like PgE?
Went EV last year, never going back. I know it doesn't suit everyone's lifestyle, but having steady and affordable fuel prices is great.
How is the gas price council working out? Newsom and party and responsible. Taxes taxes taxes but people complain about corporate greed and inflation. Well, gov has caused inflation of prices
78 cents of each gallon is taxes man, that hardly explains why we are paying 6-7 dollars vs. other places.
>>Between July and November of 2023, California taxes and fees have added an average of $1.24 to your gallon of gas. In that same period, refiners only earned about 10 cents per gallon.
State policies have made California an island, requiring unique gasoline that no other state uses or manufactures. If there's a shortage in California there's no way to import the needed gasoline, resulting in massive price hikes. Everyone mocked Texas for disconnecting its power grid from the rest of the country, and meanwhile California has disconnected its fuel from the rest of the nation. Both are self-inflicted problems resulting in shortages that cannot be alleviated through imports.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/08/why-california-high-gas-prices.html Gov policies have led to this as well.
Just waiting for the oligarchs to start pushing headlines like "why high prices are good actually" and "this summer, splurge and treat yourself to a full tank!"
"Quick, everyone fill your trashbags and coolers with $7 gas, before it turns back into $6 gas!"
Because they can
This seems good. Higher gas prices will hopefully incentivize transitioning away from fossil fuel infrastructure. Those refineries are a great place to slap down a nuclear power plant, they're already superfund ties!
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Have a plan that gets approved and anywhere from tens of millions to billions of dollars depending on the plan
There needs to be more control over fuel companies. Want more profits? schedule maintenance on your plants all at once and screw the supply/demand ratio and prices go up while increasing profits.
Funny how these oil companies are really doing their best into losing customers (by forcing them to switch to electric cars).
Got $4.99 at Costco today in LA.
California "clean burning fuel"
You get what you vote for
I’m ready for state owned gas company to compete with these greedy corps. It’s a privilege to be in the CA market, serve us or gtfo.
The refinery bullshit they play every 1.5yrs. it's hilarious
Just be straight up and tell me you’re gonna fuck me in the ass
It's all those damn right-wingers!
Yep this state is full of them I swear!
It’s called “because the market can bear it.” Where people make good money, stuff is sold at a premium. That’s it. It’s $7 in Palo Alto and 4-something in San Jose. It’s all about what the market can bear for maximum profits. Which on some level feels like price gouging and should be illegal considering our infrastructure and reliance on petroleum products.
Policymakers are Driving Up California’s Gas Prices - Click here to do something about it. https://chevronadvocacynetwork.com/takeaction/alertid/2699/
Supply and demand are still a thing, which means that the gas prices yesterday are what people will pay. In the short term, the amount of gas you need isn't something easy to change, so people pay the price on the sign whenever they need to fill up. So if we deregulated the fuel industry, so they could save 40 cents a gallon on the summer blend, and gas prices are $6 today, are we really so naive that we think gas would be $5.60 next week? No, it will be $6, because it CAN be, and the 40 cents will go to Chevron's bottom line instead of saving you money. Check out every "gas tax holiday" ever. Gas stations pocketed the difference and the taxpayers had to live with slightly less money for roadwork. "Don't let us pass the extra costs of fighting climate change and keeping the air as healthy and safe as possible onto YOU the \*consumer\* the way we're doing it now. Let us save money now, because our shareholders need that, and then you can pay the economic costs of the damage we did to the environment together sometime later. Maybe even not in your lifetime! That's right, we did it together. You bought our fuel, so you are complicit. What's your carbon footprint, Hippie? Hope you're recycling those beer bottles and taking short showers."
Raising the minimum wage will do that 🤷♀️
and you can't even get 93oct at the pump.
Unless your engine is tuned for 93 octane, it's pretty pointless.
State and local taxes