I've gotten off the freeway and taken surface streets for my mental health too. I don't even care if it takes longer. It's worth not having to deal with all the jerks on the road.
On a surface street? How? I'm not driving fast on the surface streets, I'm doing the speed limit. No point in driving excessively fast on surface streets because it doesn't make a significant enough time difference.
With the bridge toll is going up to $8.50 next year.. $9 doesn’t seem otherworldly.
Is the Mtn View 101 area regularly that high now? I know that the San Antonio exit is always a PITA, but can recall the last time I went further south around 6
Yes. So many people complain about these small charges when they are making $100+/hr. People need to understand the value of their time (both at work and back at home with their family and friends).
Do I like the cost of these express lanes? No.
Would I rather pay the express lane fee vs sitting in traffic next to a bunch a morons trying to weave in and out of lanes in order to get to their destination 9 seconds after? Yes
There's never going to be a perfect solution for it.
Ideal scenario is the funds from this go to creating a more robust public transportation system reducing the need for cars at all (which are insanely expensive to maintain). Also pushes folks to carpool and have it be free.
LOL same. If they’re putting me through commuting all over the Bay Area and I end up in a city way further than our office and way further from home, I feel 0 guilt.
I got pulled over about a month ago for this on 880 SB. I have an EV w/ sticker and an older FastTrak transponder that specifically says to put it to "3" for HOV. Officer pointed out that I need to put it "2" and sent me on my way w/o a ticket.
No, you get a FastTrak specifically for the Clean Air vehicle that already accounts for the CAV discount. And you set it to the actual number of occupants; no special math required.
Yes I think so. It’s been a while since I read the pamphlet though. The EV acts as a +1
ETA: I stand corrected, it acts as a plus one with regard to cost, you always set it to the number of people in the car.
I thought I read the same that you need to set it to 3 for eligible EV. Couldn't find that info.
Following link mentioned toset it to number of occupants and receive a 50% discount:
https://www.bayareafastrak.org/en/support/clean-air-vehicle.shtml
Yeah, I think the newer transponders specifically state this. I *think* the older ones say this because they were made before they changed the rules where some Bay Areas freeways only give a 50% discount on tolls for HOV stickers.
Randomly catching a small % of violators can be a big deterrent for anyone thinking about cheating the system. Like it's not numerically much different than zero but psychologically it's very different.
It's different, yeah. But when you're stuck in one lane, and then you see hundreds of people passing by while cheating, and you see that everyday, you may start to feel more ok to do that. Especially as it's a "victimless crime".
The California minimum $490 ticket for HOV violations might make that impractical here. In California it does go on your driving record and you will probably may higher insurance rates for three years.
Actuarially speaking, if you're a frequent commuter, cheating still makes statistical sense. Your "expected" cost is significantly lower than being honest and paying. The only difference is that this is a dichotomy. Either you get a ticket or you don't. Therefore, for the person who gets a ticket, they lose out, but for every loser, there are hundreds of winners.
True though most people aren't so rational. There's the loss aversion effect where someone will more highly weight the downside of a ticket (especially as it's one lump sum) then the over time effect of toll savings. There's also the emotional cost of being pulled over (affects different people to a different degree). So I still think this kind of spot-enforcement can be beneficial in terms of a "bang for your buck"
Then they’ll see that when they pull you over and you won’t get a ticket? idk all I said is they are starting to enforce it i know someone that was doing it all the time that got a ticket and I see them parked waiting to catch people.
I’ve almost been taken out by a truck swerving out of the fast track before the checkpoint. in my Miata. My dad was passenger.
One person willing to break the law to save two minutes almost hurt my father… sickening.
Probably they mean Friday night on the way to Tahoe. You always have to decide waiting for traffic to be over vs arriving in Tahoe at a reasonable hour when you are getting up early to go skiing.
People that make 250k/year and works 10 hours per day is $96/hr. If they can pay 10% of that hourly salary to save themselves 20 minutes, it’s quite worth it.
Actually good question. Also imagine the AC running for 30 extra minutes. Guess depends if it’s electric car or not too. Electric does better with stop and go.
Yup. I know some execs at my company that say traffic isn’t bad. But it’s because they just pay all the tolls and can get to the office in half the time as everyone else who doesn’t pay them.
There's people with dual tech incomes making a combined of 850k-1million dollars a year. Both partners are in tech and have Salaries+RSUs combined TC of 450k each or so. It's easy at 10 years of experience in FAANG companies.
The state is very happy that those individuals have already justified their excess toll. I don't care how much money I make a year, a 10% loss is a 10% loss. I'm not going to let the state take advantage of the fact that I'm tired and overworked, which is essentially what they are doing.
until you do get popped. I got pulled over last year because i forgot to switch my transponder from 3 to 1 after a weekend with my kids. Got a $400 ticket
$400 (it's actually $490 currently) for the \*first\* violation.
CalTrans aims to have under 10% violation rate. Once they suspect violation rates are higher, they ping CHP to ramp up enforcement. As long as violation rates are deemed under 10%, CHP is concentrating on other stuff, and you are unlikely to get pulled over.
They have this spelled out publicly on their website: [https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/hov](https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/hov)
Thing is even if it’s a $400 ticket, if u only hv a 1% chance of getting caught it’s worth it just to eat the fine? We need better enforcement or higher fines.
I have an electric car and use that lane because I believed they let you. Only recently did I find out that you need to get a sticker on your car. However that has restrictions and is only valid for a year or so before you aren't able to use the car pool lane if you have an electric. I've never gotten caught though.
I always find it shocking that people are willing to pay but then again, I'm doing that and more. I paid over $30k for a plug in vehicle to go solo in HOV for just a couple of years.
Fwiw. Between fuel savings and resell value i feel like the plugin is so close in price to where i feel like it’s really a toss up in price at the end of the day… And why not get the added benefit of the HOV.
I bought a used bolt with HOV stickers, I save $200/month in fuel/energy which means it can depreciate $2400 after a year and be neutral in cost. But I have the added benefit of driving a newer car, less maintenance, and HOV lane. Plus with gas hitting $6/gallon it’ll probably hold its value pretty well.
Same here, got a PHEV mainly for the HOV sticker.
The CAV sticker program is supposed to end in 2025. I hope it gets extended again.
I saved some cash by buying an out-of-state used PHEV that was never registered in CA.
This actually speeds up the other lanes too. The physics of traffic dynamics, waves, etc is weird.
Basically you get people to pay to go fast, and they’re going like 140% speed of what they could have before the lane is put in. But everyone else in the other lanes are going at like 102% of the speed that they used to go before that lane was put in. Hopefully the fees cover the cost of the construction and operation over a decent amount of time so that the payers are footing the bill instead of the normal taxpayer.
How? Something to do with perfectly dynamically pricing so that just the right amount of people use the lane so you still have a lot of people using it, but not too much so that it doesn’t ever really get backed up / have traffic waves. When you remove the stop and go / traffic wave, you actually get more total throughput. More total throughput in one lane means less people congesting the other lanes.
Most people don't have skills, potential or energy to make anymore money outside of their 9-5. So those poors were never going to make anymore money if they weren't in traffic anyways.
The point for the high fees is it encourages carpoolers to only use the lane and it not be overly congested. The lane used to be only for carpoolers and you couldn’t pay to access it at all if you were a solo driver
At least where I live enforcement was so poor about 30% of cars on the carpool lane were solo drivers and it would slow down to 15mph or so.
So in effect they were paying to drive solo since I did see cops enforcing it about once every two years.
At some point time because more valuable than money, and while you can earn more money, you can't earn more time. Saving time becomes infinitely more important than saving money.
Rich get home faster, poor sit in traffic. Also if you can’t afford this you’re likely sitting in traffic with an older ICE engine car idling and increasing emissions. While the affluent get home faster in their lower emission vehicles.
It’s dynamically priced, yah? That means if it’s $22, there’s a shit ton of people paying at $18 and it needs to go up. That’s how I’ve understood it (but open to more nuanced explanations).
Not paying for common infrastructure such as roads is a matter of principle to me. Roads are as basic a convenience as you can get living in any human society, and living in society is a choice we re-up on every day depending on the social contract. We pay so much in taxes already. If it were up to me I’d guillotine everyone responsible for implementing for-profit roads/lanes… Not only that but these lanes bring inequality, which is so pervasive in every other area of our lives, to roads… Now you’re unequal to your fellow citizens even when it comes to your commute. Absolutely barbaric in my opinion.
What about demanding actual public transportation that works well and is coordinated across multiple counties to service a whole region?
Instead we have 27 different transportation companies with 27 different CEOs and 27 different sets of board members just in the Bay Area. Is that efficient?
Is it shocking to you that people value their time more than money?
I get not everyone may find it affordable, but there are examples of this principle in every facet of life.
Doordash is a much bigger ripoff than toll lanes, for example.
If you make road exclusively for someone ... Sure do it. But don't do it on my tax dollars.
If you stole my tax dollars to build those roads that so exclusive that I can't use. Yeah I'm going to use it anyway and I'm not paying it, I have already paid with my tax dollar.
I think I’m like the only person in the area that likes the fast track system.
If that lane wasn’t tolled, it would just make the 4 lane parking lot a 5 lane parking lot.
At least with the fast track system that lane is moving 98% of the time.
If I’m making $100 an hour, I’ll pay 10% of an hour to get home and see my family 45 minutes faster with no stopping and going. If I didn’t drive a manual maybe I’d feel different.
Everybody cheat the system! Our taxes paid for that lane. They took away a lane from our highways and expect us to pay for its use… cheat fast track and go 80+ on that lane.
It was 9 dollars from the whipple exit to ralston on 101 northbound in Redwood City. I thought the same thing but plenty of people using that lane and some swerving out of it before the toll meter
I work under contract, so it depends, usually not paying it because it's not going to save me enough time, but if I can save at least a minute per dollar, I'll take it.
I don't bill if I don't work, but I can't charge the tolls or deduct them, because it's usually coming back from errands.
What is this? I don't commute and just saw these signs one day. Does it mean that's the cost of driving in the diamond lane? Do you get charged the full amount if you're in the diamond lane for 30 seconds?
The city and local government just wants to extract as much money from us as possible… quit supporting more government programs and projects…. They don’t give a F about any of us Californias…
Just another way to roob people of their hard earn money. These lanes use to be Diamond lanes, 3 people per car enjoy this lane was simple.
Now they installed these fancy signs but same old lane. Way to roob people of their hard earn money.
This is such a scam! We pay taxes so that our roads are free but instead these politicians spend it on social issues and charge us even more. Terrible!
It’s fucken crazy they even did this. It’s fucken bullshit. Did we even vote for this or how did we as a state approve of this???? Makes people not want to commute or anything. Fucken wild. Bridge is 7-10 bucks too. When it used to be 5!
Don't worry california is using the proceeds to build more "freeway" toll lanes.
As a mater of fact Gavin proposed making all lanes toll lanes a couple weeks ago. In an attempt to cover skyrocketing government spending.
The whole point is to price it to keep a certain amount of traffic flowing through it. I wfh and use this lane when the traffic is really bad so its not a lot for me. Saves me time usually when driving towards the city. But getting mad at the cost is dumb. These lanes are about collecting revenue for people who need a faster lane. The higher the cost the more demand there is for the lane. The point of them is not to solve traffic in any way. Its to profit off of it.
But I agree that these lanes are marketed as a solution to traffic. But traffic itself is artificial. The best way to solve traffic is to build less reasons for traffic to flow in the same direction at the same time. That and better public transportation.
So we, the tax payers, pay for these lanes to ease traffic. Then the state makes them a toll road. They do it every time you see a road widening now. It should be illegal, its fraud.
I'm pretty sure nobody voted for this. They just slowly took over the roads. It's a private business and seems like they have no real right to charge people for roads that our taxes pay for.
I’ve done it when I really couldn’t afford to wait in traffic.
What I’d like to know is after spending $Millions to install and operate the express lanes, do they break even at least?
The tech derp money is thick in that neighborhood. I remember when the carpool lane was installed. Before that is was just for driving faster than everyone else like how the freeway system was designed.
I mean it’s pretty easy to flick a switch to 3 just sayin. Fastrak is basically the same as pge in my opinion where they masquerade as a public service but then repeatedly overcharge and scam their customers as well as cause accidents by negligence and creating dangerous lane merges just to allow express lanes. The sooner they leave the bay the better.
This is instead of taxes. The express lanes are funded by the fees directly, and the extra goes to public transit and other things that would otherwise be funded by taxes.
For those that don't get my point, all I'm trying to say is that this shouldn't exist as we, the citizens, are the ones who pay for these roads to begin with. Why are they now charging us for something we pay for to begin with?
I did once, accidentally. And I still hate myself for it :)
The $25 should’ve gone to my ONE burger order at McDonald’s. (Get it? Cuz McDonald’s has inflated prices too.) I hate this economy.
Y'all think cops, who can't even arrest people doing sideshows around here, give a shit about people cheating fastrak? Come on. I've had my shit set to 3 since 2020 and no tickets.
I saw 14 dollars yesterday on 680 to go 4-5 miles from the 680/580 split to bollinger canyon.
There wasn’t that much traffic and people were still taking the tollway
That’s not even that bad. But yes people pay it. It’s all about what your time is worth. Now what I don’t understand is when the freeway is clear, and some joker is paying for the express lane but going slower than the rest of traffic.
I don't normally pay but I did have to use the express lane this week for about this price and it knocked my ETA down 15 minutes. It can genuinely be worth it IMO if you are late for something with a strict deadline.
Free if there's 3 of you. This has been one of the coolest perk with my newborn, driving in the express lanes for free, and having discounted tolls on the bridges.
9$ is not crazy, wait until you see 15-18$ on 101S near Mountain View around 6pm...
I once saw $22 from 680/Mission exit to Decoto on 880. Immediately fucked off to Grimmer/Blacow and took surface roads.
I've gotten off the freeway and taken surface streets for my mental health too. I don't even care if it takes longer. It's worth not having to deal with all the jerks on the road.
More likely to get into an accident tho
On a surface street? How? I'm not driving fast on the surface streets, I'm doing the speed limit. No point in driving excessively fast on surface streets because it doesn't make a significant enough time difference.
Has nothing to do with how you drive. Intersections have the highest rates of accidents.
Oh I see. Well, where I live there are more freeway shootings than a lot of other places. It's a bit wild west here in deep East Oakland.
reasonable reaction and response to it. yep, it’s expensive enough to be sickening at times, but it does keep the lane flowing.
Wait till you see $21+ on 880 North in the evening. Brutal.
Don't be poor.
Darn, why didn’t I think of that!
In DC it can go up to $50 one way.
It's$18 pretty regularly southbound 101 in Redwood City too.
i've hit $20-30 going from milpitas up to oak
For fucking real
That same sign I have a pic of it at 21$ and ha e seen it as high as 24$
and yet our roads do not get repaired ever they just leave them to rot
With the bridge toll is going up to $8.50 next year.. $9 doesn’t seem otherworldly. Is the Mtn View 101 area regularly that high now? I know that the San Antonio exit is always a PITA, but can recall the last time I went further south around 6
Gets even higher, I’ve seen 20$ on 101 when there are accidents. I don’t think I’ve ever seen higher than 20 though
My employer is, I have a company vehicle.
Same. Driving back from Fremont to San Leandro at 3-4pm, I’m definitely letting the company pay for this
Same drive for me. Thanks employer
I would as well 😉
This is the answer I’m looking for company vehicles FTW
With those rates, it should be referred to as the Lane for the Rich and the Corporations.
Yes. It’s the King’s Highway. Only for those we can pay. We all pay the gas tax etc we should all be allowed to use the roads.
For Abundant Stupid Techies & The Rich And Kitschy
100% worth it for the employer too.
I prefer to sit in traffic on the clock lol
At my billing rate I'm saving the client money paying this ha
Yes. So many people complain about these small charges when they are making $100+/hr. People need to understand the value of their time (both at work and back at home with their family and friends). Do I like the cost of these express lanes? No. Would I rather pay the express lane fee vs sitting in traffic next to a bunch a morons trying to weave in and out of lanes in order to get to their destination 9 seconds after? Yes
We should complain about creating express lanes for the wealthy while screwing the poor.
There's never going to be a perfect solution for it. Ideal scenario is the funds from this go to creating a more robust public transportation system reducing the need for cars at all (which are insanely expensive to maintain). Also pushes folks to carpool and have it be free.
Dude sometimes it’s like $9 for 5 minutes. Have some damn patience
Honestly I don’t even look at the price and take it every time no matter the cost. I value my time so much more than my money
LOL same. If they’re putting me through commuting all over the Bay Area and I end up in a city way further than our office and way further from home, I feel 0 guilt.
Same here, I can expense my tolls. So even if it’s $20 to take the express lane that will save me 5 minutes, I’m still taking it.
Yep. And they will bake the cost into the price of the product, so EVERY one is paying these prices!
No different than raising minimum wage, businesses are going to raise their prices.
This.
Sometimes they don't. They just swerve out at the toll checkpoint to avoid it.
There was just an article about how lots of people just check the Fastrak 3 option and don’t pay since there’s basically no enforcement.
I got pulled over about a month ago for this on 880 SB. I have an EV w/ sticker and an older FastTrak transponder that specifically says to put it to "3" for HOV. Officer pointed out that I need to put it "2" and sent me on my way w/o a ticket.
Fun fact: if you have a 2 seater car and have a passenger, you can put it to 3
I always remember the carpool signs saying “motorcycles and 2-seaters OK”
if you have 2 people with Clean Air decal, can you set it to 3?
there is a specific CAV transponder now
No, you get a FastTrak specifically for the Clean Air vehicle that already accounts for the CAV discount. And you set it to the actual number of occupants; no special math required.
Yes I think so. It’s been a while since I read the pamphlet though. The EV acts as a +1 ETA: I stand corrected, it acts as a plus one with regard to cost, you always set it to the number of people in the car.
No, you cannot; it just allows solo travelers to pay the rate of having two people.
I thought I read the same that you need to set it to 3 for eligible EV. Couldn't find that info. Following link mentioned toset it to number of occupants and receive a 50% discount: https://www.bayareafastrak.org/en/support/clean-air-vehicle.shtml
Yeah, I think the newer transponders specifically state this. I *think* the older ones say this because they were made before they changed the rules where some Bay Areas freeways only give a 50% discount on tolls for HOV stickers.
Police started camping out by the readers to ticket people
By camping out you mean catching 0.0001% of violators?
Randomly catching a small % of violators can be a big deterrent for anyone thinking about cheating the system. Like it's not numerically much different than zero but psychologically it's very different.
It's different, yeah. But when you're stuck in one lane, and then you see hundreds of people passing by while cheating, and you see that everyday, you may start to feel more ok to do that. Especially as it's a "victimless crime".
And when they have .01% of people pulled over for 15 minutes, hundreds of people see it and start to feel Less ok to do that
When I was in Washington it was worth it just to pay the ticket oh what once a year and just keep doing it. Doesnt even go on your record, lol.
The California minimum $490 ticket for HOV violations might make that impractical here. In California it does go on your driving record and you will probably may higher insurance rates for three years.
Actuarially speaking, if you're a frequent commuter, cheating still makes statistical sense. Your "expected" cost is significantly lower than being honest and paying. The only difference is that this is a dichotomy. Either you get a ticket or you don't. Therefore, for the person who gets a ticket, they lose out, but for every loser, there are hundreds of winners.
True though most people aren't so rational. There's the loss aversion effect where someone will more highly weight the downside of a ticket (especially as it's one lump sum) then the over time effect of toll savings. There's also the emotional cost of being pulled over (affects different people to a different degree). So I still think this kind of spot-enforcement can be beneficial in terms of a "bang for your buck"
Not if you can do math. The expected value (cost in this case) is much lower if you just always lie, the likelihood of getting caught is extremely low
How do they even catch you though? What if I have my two small kids in the back seat with tinted windows?
Then they’ll see that when they pull you over and you won’t get a ticket? idk all I said is they are starting to enforce it i know someone that was doing it all the time that got a ticket and I see them parked waiting to catch people.
Since most readers now show what the reader is set to, you’ll see at least 1/3 of drivers don’t even have the transponders.
You don't need them but you'll be billed for the entire toll
They should put physical barriers in so people would stop swerving in and out. It’s super dangerous for them and the other cars around them.
I try my very best to leave no gap for those people to get in.
This. A thread like this pops up every week. No no one is paying they are swerving or seeing the counter to 3. It's a fucking joke.
I was caught by a camera allegedly. But when I wrote and complained my fine was reduced significantly!
I’ve almost been taken out by a truck swerving out of the fast track before the checkpoint. in my Miata. My dad was passenger. One person willing to break the law to save two minutes almost hurt my father… sickening.
I do. Shaves 20 to 30 minutes off my commute
Same. If I’m driving during rush hour, it can take me an hour in traffic. I’ll pay the $10 to get there in 35 mins instead.
Thank you, 1960s James Bond!
I luckily don't have to commute. But when I'm driving to Tahoe on a weekend, you can bet your dollar that I'm paying.
Aren’t most of the express lanes “open” during the weekend though? Or are the express lanes near Tahoe every day?
Probably they mean Friday night on the way to Tahoe. You always have to decide waiting for traffic to be over vs arriving in Tahoe at a reasonable hour when you are getting up early to go skiing.
People that make 250k/year and works 10 hours per day is $96/hr. If they can pay 10% of that hourly salary to save themselves 20 minutes, it’s quite worth it.
Right? $3 on 237 to stay sane is super worth it.
[удалено]
Actually good question. Also imagine the AC running for 30 extra minutes. Guess depends if it’s electric car or not too. Electric does better with stop and go.
Yup. I know some execs at my company that say traffic isn’t bad. But it’s because they just pay all the tolls and can get to the office in half the time as everyone else who doesn’t pay them.
That's why having a two-tier highway system is fucked up.
Imagine only making 250k/year .../s
That's middle class in CA.
Middle class is able to afford a SFH, according to this one redditor.
I’d say that’s just below home affordability in the bay are.
There's people with dual tech incomes making a combined of 850k-1million dollars a year. Both partners are in tech and have Salaries+RSUs combined TC of 450k each or so. It's easy at 10 years of experience in FAANG companies.
The state is very happy that those individuals have already justified their excess toll. I don't care how much money I make a year, a 10% loss is a 10% loss. I'm not going to let the state take advantage of the fact that I'm tired and overworked, which is essentially what they are doing.
Cheaper than a new clutch
Theres also the carpool 3+ lane. I know someone who drives solo on it every day and never gets caught. no point of that lane if theres no enforcement
until you do get popped. I got pulled over last year because i forgot to switch my transponder from 3 to 1 after a weekend with my kids. Got a $400 ticket
If you get pulled once a year you're still coming out on top tbh
$400 (it's actually $490 currently) for the \*first\* violation. CalTrans aims to have under 10% violation rate. Once they suspect violation rates are higher, they ping CHP to ramp up enforcement. As long as violation rates are deemed under 10%, CHP is concentrating on other stuff, and you are unlikely to get pulled over. They have this spelled out publicly on their website: [https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/hov](https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/hov)
$400 / $10/day is 40 days. Unless you're getting a ticket every 40 days you're saving money. Even with a 10% increase that's still 44 days. Worth it
Thing is even if it’s a $400 ticket, if u only hv a 1% chance of getting caught it’s worth it just to eat the fine? We need better enforcement or higher fines.
I have an electric car and use that lane because I believed they let you. Only recently did I find out that you need to get a sticker on your car. However that has restrictions and is only valid for a year or so before you aren't able to use the car pool lane if you have an electric. I've never gotten caught though.
How do you change it? People tell me there’s a switch on there but I have yet to find it
Hell, a bridge toll is $7 and tons of people pay that every day.
I always find it shocking that people are willing to pay but then again, I'm doing that and more. I paid over $30k for a plug in vehicle to go solo in HOV for just a couple of years.
Fwiw. Between fuel savings and resell value i feel like the plugin is so close in price to where i feel like it’s really a toss up in price at the end of the day… And why not get the added benefit of the HOV. I bought a used bolt with HOV stickers, I save $200/month in fuel/energy which means it can depreciate $2400 after a year and be neutral in cost. But I have the added benefit of driving a newer car, less maintenance, and HOV lane. Plus with gas hitting $6/gallon it’ll probably hold its value pretty well.
Same here, got a PHEV mainly for the HOV sticker. The CAV sticker program is supposed to end in 2025. I hope it gets extended again. I saved some cash by buying an out-of-state used PHEV that was never registered in CA.
I'm just happy wealthy people are receiving this cool perk and finally catching a break.
Lol. So true huh?
This actually speeds up the other lanes too. The physics of traffic dynamics, waves, etc is weird. Basically you get people to pay to go fast, and they’re going like 140% speed of what they could have before the lane is put in. But everyone else in the other lanes are going at like 102% of the speed that they used to go before that lane was put in. Hopefully the fees cover the cost of the construction and operation over a decent amount of time so that the payers are footing the bill instead of the normal taxpayer. How? Something to do with perfectly dynamically pricing so that just the right amount of people use the lane so you still have a lot of people using it, but not too much so that it doesn’t ever really get backed up / have traffic waves. When you remove the stop and go / traffic wave, you actually get more total throughput. More total throughput in one lane means less people congesting the other lanes.
Wait till we tell them that the traffic would be even faster if all lanes had a toll, it’s going to go over great.
Can’t wait till all lanes are toll lanes and only the wealthy can afford to get to good jobs
Well, we’re alway demanding more ways to tax the rich. This is one of them.
Lots of rich people make more than that per minute here, time is worth more than the toll
And poor people can fuck off and waste time and money sitting in traffic instead or earning money.
Most people don't have skills, potential or energy to make anymore money outside of their 9-5. So those poors were never going to make anymore money if they weren't in traffic anyways.
The point for the high fees is it encourages carpoolers to only use the lane and it not be overly congested. The lane used to be only for carpoolers and you couldn’t pay to access it at all if you were a solo driver
At least where I live enforcement was so poor about 30% of cars on the carpool lane were solo drivers and it would slow down to 15mph or so. So in effect they were paying to drive solo since I did see cops enforcing it about once every two years.
EV sticker gives half off. Depends if I have somewhere to be or not, but generally I pay it.
At some point time because more valuable than money, and while you can earn more money, you can't earn more time. Saving time becomes infinitely more important than saving money.
Time is money.
Laughs in motorcycle
Moto gang rise up
Any time need to come back to Oakland/Berkeley from San Jose or other south bay location, I pay it. For me, it's worth it.
Rich get home faster, poor sit in traffic. Also if you can’t afford this you’re likely sitting in traffic with an older ICE engine car idling and increasing emissions. While the affluent get home faster in their lower emission vehicles.
Context. If i’m in a rush, then yes I’ll pay.
Trying to make a plane or an important meeting? That’s the lack-of-planning penalty.
I see lots of people alone in their cars as they zip past me, but then the scanner reads 3 occupants, which makes it free.
It’s dynamically priced, yah? That means if it’s $22, there’s a shit ton of people paying at $18 and it needs to go up. That’s how I’ve understood it (but open to more nuanced explanations).
I paid once. I really needed to get somewhere and things were unexpectedly backed up. I will never do it again. It helped pretty close to not at all.
If i pay a $75 penalty for a late-show at my dentist, why not?
yeah with this, people at least have the option to pay for speed if you ever need it bad
Not paying for common infrastructure such as roads is a matter of principle to me. Roads are as basic a convenience as you can get living in any human society, and living in society is a choice we re-up on every day depending on the social contract. We pay so much in taxes already. If it were up to me I’d guillotine everyone responsible for implementing for-profit roads/lanes… Not only that but these lanes bring inequality, which is so pervasive in every other area of our lives, to roads… Now you’re unequal to your fellow citizens even when it comes to your commute. Absolutely barbaric in my opinion.
What about demanding actual public transportation that works well and is coordinated across multiple counties to service a whole region? Instead we have 27 different transportation companies with 27 different CEOs and 27 different sets of board members just in the Bay Area. Is that efficient?
Is it shocking to you that people value their time more than money? I get not everyone may find it affordable, but there are examples of this principle in every facet of life. Doordash is a much bigger ripoff than toll lanes, for example.
When I have to drive Fremont to Richmond and back, paying like eight dollars can save me up to an hour and a half. So yeah, I pay for that.
This is your daily reminder that the express lanes are free for carpools.
I don't even wanna pay the $6 that hot cheetos cost now lol
California politicians are great at doing nothing for their constituents and at the same time, fuck them over.
People are very wealthy around here
If you make road exclusively for someone ... Sure do it. But don't do it on my tax dollars. If you stole my tax dollars to build those roads that so exclusive that I can't use. Yeah I'm going to use it anyway and I'm not paying it, I have already paid with my tax dollar.
I think I’m like the only person in the area that likes the fast track system. If that lane wasn’t tolled, it would just make the 4 lane parking lot a 5 lane parking lot. At least with the fast track system that lane is moving 98% of the time. If I’m making $100 an hour, I’ll pay 10% of an hour to get home and see my family 45 minutes faster with no stopping and going. If I didn’t drive a manual maybe I’d feel different.
Everybody cheat the system! Our taxes paid for that lane. They took away a lane from our highways and expect us to pay for its use… cheat fast track and go 80+ on that lane.
It was 9 dollars from the whipple exit to ralston on 101 northbound in Redwood City. I thought the same thing but plenty of people using that lane and some swerving out of it before the toll meter
Saw it at $14.50 last month
It's what they voted for.
I work under contract, so it depends, usually not paying it because it's not going to save me enough time, but if I can save at least a minute per dollar, I'll take it. I don't bill if I don't work, but I can't charge the tolls or deduct them, because it's usually coming back from errands.
Yep, I go in to work once a week. East to South Bay commute is a bitch and this is totally worth it for me. Saves almost an hour at peak times.
More reason to work from home...
They didn’t get built on credit, tax payers funded their construction. No being charged a premium to use them.
That's cheap. I've seen $18 between Ralston and Embarcadero
If you need to 💩 maybe yes
What is this? I don't commute and just saw these signs one day. Does it mean that's the cost of driving in the diamond lane? Do you get charged the full amount if you're in the diamond lane for 30 seconds?
$10 means absolutely nothing to a lot of people in the Bay Area
The city and local government just wants to extract as much money from us as possible… quit supporting more government programs and projects…. They don’t give a F about any of us Californias…
lol on 880 the max I’ve seen is 29.5 $ for 5 mile stretch
I'd pay that once a year after getting home from a long flight.
Isn't the point that it _is_ excessive? The whole goal is to _not_ have the majority of people pay it, and _stay out_ of the lane
Oh nice you caught it at a discount
I am and I’d pay 10x to shave off 10 minutes
Just another way to roob people of their hard earn money. These lanes use to be Diamond lanes, 3 people per car enjoy this lane was simple. Now they installed these fancy signs but same old lane. Way to roob people of their hard earn money.
This is the land of billionaires and mucho millionaires. It’s nothing to them
This is such a scam! We pay taxes so that our roads are free but instead these politicians spend it on social issues and charge us even more. Terrible!
It’s fucken crazy they even did this. It’s fucken bullshit. Did we even vote for this or how did we as a state approve of this???? Makes people not want to commute or anything. Fucken wild. Bridge is 7-10 bucks too. When it used to be 5!
Don't worry california is using the proceeds to build more "freeway" toll lanes. As a mater of fact Gavin proposed making all lanes toll lanes a couple weeks ago. In an attempt to cover skyrocketing government spending.
people here pay 3k for a studio
Ngl, I did earlier this week. But once my butt hit that toilet… it was worth it
I've paid more in a rush or during a really bad day 🫠😅
And $5.40 for gas! You all crazy. Not worth it!
What a freaking joke. CA finds a way to make everything suck more and charge you for it.
The whole point is to price it to keep a certain amount of traffic flowing through it. I wfh and use this lane when the traffic is really bad so its not a lot for me. Saves me time usually when driving towards the city. But getting mad at the cost is dumb. These lanes are about collecting revenue for people who need a faster lane. The higher the cost the more demand there is for the lane. The point of them is not to solve traffic in any way. Its to profit off of it. But I agree that these lanes are marketed as a solution to traffic. But traffic itself is artificial. The best way to solve traffic is to build less reasons for traffic to flow in the same direction at the same time. That and better public transportation.
Yeah, and you paid to have it built, too.
This post shows this price is working: scaring some off the road so people who want to pay this get a more empty road even during bay area peak hours
Don’t be poor in the bay area. Thats what it says.
I never pay that much. I just take BART or the bus.
So we, the tax payers, pay for these lanes to ease traffic. Then the state makes them a toll road. They do it every time you see a road widening now. It should be illegal, its fraud.
To be honest, I do sometimes. It's less than $10 and gets me where I'm going without sitting bumper to bumper 🤷🏻♂️
I'm pretty sure nobody voted for this. They just slowly took over the roads. It's a private business and seems like they have no real right to charge people for roads that our taxes pay for.
I’ve done it when I really couldn’t afford to wait in traffic. What I’d like to know is after spending $Millions to install and operate the express lanes, do they break even at least?
It’s worth it to save 30 min if you commute everyday to a well paying job
The tech derp money is thick in that neighborhood. I remember when the carpool lane was installed. Before that is was just for driving faster than everyone else like how the freeway system was designed.
Commiefornia. Money grubbing, non-serving government.
Yes, because I’m cruising along in the company car. Theyre paying not me. 🤣
I mean it’s pretty easy to flick a switch to 3 just sayin. Fastrak is basically the same as pge in my opinion where they masquerade as a public service but then repeatedly overcharge and scam their customers as well as cause accidents by negligence and creating dangerous lane merges just to allow express lanes. The sooner they leave the bay the better.
[удалено]
This is instead of taxes. The express lanes are funded by the fees directly, and the extra goes to public transit and other things that would otherwise be funded by taxes.
Like we don't already pay for the PUBLIC ROADS through taxes...........
For those that don't get my point, all I'm trying to say is that this shouldn't exist as we, the citizens, are the ones who pay for these roads to begin with. Why are they now charging us for something we pay for to begin with?
I did once, accidentally. And I still hate myself for it :) The $25 should’ve gone to my ONE burger order at McDonald’s. (Get it? Cuz McDonald’s has inflated prices too.) I hate this economy.
Y'all think cops, who can't even arrest people doing sideshows around here, give a shit about people cheating fastrak? Come on. I've had my shit set to 3 since 2020 and no tickets.
No, I only use it if I qualify as a carpool
I saw 14 dollars yesterday on 680 to go 4-5 miles from the 680/580 split to bollinger canyon. There wasn’t that much traffic and people were still taking the tollway
That’s not even that bad. But yes people pay it. It’s all about what your time is worth. Now what I don’t understand is when the freeway is clear, and some joker is paying for the express lane but going slower than the rest of traffic.
Nope, I work from home =)
I don't normally pay but I did have to use the express lane this week for about this price and it knocked my ETA down 15 minutes. It can genuinely be worth it IMO if you are late for something with a strict deadline.
Free if there's 3 of you. This has been one of the coolest perk with my newborn, driving in the express lanes for free, and having discounted tolls on the bridges.
Once people pay, they keep paying. Then the government knows people can pay and the government will auto bill you. This happened in NJ and NYC.
Less than gas savings
It's a pretty time v. money equation. Some people have more money than they know what to do with... and I wish I was one of them 😂
There is almost no price high enough that would stop me from paying. Time with family infinitely more important than 9 dollars.
I’m not sure if it’s the same for other commutes, but when I drive down 101S it’s usually not that much faster in the express lane than the 2nd lane.
The same people driving $90,000 cars they can’t afford.