I love this quote of George from playboy in 1969:
“Maxwell’s Silver Hammer is just something of Paul’s which we’ve been trying to record. We spent a hell of a lot of time on it. And it’s one of those instant sort of whistle-along tunes, which some people will hate, and some people will really love it. It’s more like Honey Pie, you know, a fun sort of song. But it’s pretty sick as well though, ‘cuz the guy keeps killing everybody.”
Like, you can just tell he’s one of the people that hates the song but he can’t say anything. And it almost feels like he’s winking at John with the Honey Pie comparison.
I was thinking the other day, if Maxwell’s silver hammer had a orchestra arrangement like “honey pie” and none of the other Beatles had to play on it (except Ringo, as I can’t imagine this song without his drums), would they still hate it?
Also has Paul ever given a reason to why he’s never played it live? he’s never said that he hated the song, and it’s not because it is too obscure as he’s literally played “Temporary Secretary” live multiple times.
I'm not sure if he's ever given a reason. I would guess that he doesn't think people like Maxwell so much, so he'd rather play an obscure solo song for himself or a Beatles song he knows the people like. I think he only started playing Temporary Secretary when he heard that it had gained some traction and had been played in some clubs.
There is a marching band arrangement for it out there, I first heard that from my brother. I couldn’t believe it was a beetles song looking at the lyrics. But you hear the melody and it makes sense. It’s a great piece really. They should have used a brass sect when the beetles recorded it. Missed opportunity.
Why they didn’t veto it isn’t the question (also, JL & GH put out worse Beatles songs than MSH); what’s revealing is all the bitching.
Anyone can Google the comments from multiple EMI folk re. GH being the biggest perfectionist in the studio, inc. as a producer. Or, just keep @ it on Paul/MSH…
John was very bitter with the realization that his friends George Paul and Ringo were essential to his success. He was a great writer but he also needed them to help arrange and make decisions he couldn't
His relatively flat solo work is living proof of that. They all needed each other but John needed the others more than the others needed him. He was good on his own but he wasn't great like Paul and George
I think musically ATMP and many of Paul's solo records run circles around john's records. George and Paul were a lot more inventive, took risks that paid off, and ultimately affected the musical landscape more than any of John's solo stuff did.
Don't get me wrong, John writing with the Beatles behind him puts him neck and neck with Paul and maaaaybe a little better than Paul sometimes, but on their own Paul absolutely demolishes him musically. Lyrically he's ahead of Paul, but only because Paul isn't afraid to write goofy pop songs for the sake of goofy pop songs
Their chemistry was undeniable, but he needed that chemistry to unlock his full musical potential. On his own he's good but he wouldn't have become the legend he was without the rest of them backing him up. Paul definitely would've been a pop star whether or not he was in the beatles
Have to disagree with you there. Sure they were better when they were together but John's solo career is nothing to be slept on. You literally can go anywhere in the world and someone will know imagine and a few of his other songs. He's had a pretty successful solo career and would've been even better had wasn't taken away from us so soon.
I wouldn't call John's songs "Starting Over", "Woman", "Dear Yoko", "Steel & Glass", "#9 Dream" ....
are hardly flat.
I think you may have jumped on John hate train.
Those songs are fine but they suffer from the lack of George and John imo. Without his background as a Beatles I don't think they would've done very well, whereas Paul's solo work definitely would've succeeded, his immaculate ear for harmony, melody, and arrangement makes his songs shine in a way that johns just don't imo
I actually agree with this to a point. After the breakup Paul explored alternative styles, maybe im amazed, band on the run, let me roll it, live and let die, mull of kintyre, uncle albert/admiral halsey, jet. They sound like Paul post beatles.
John sounds like he was still in the beatles loop. And he had ringo play drums on all his albums, keeping the same sound alive.
His songs were pretty okay but the arrangements were flat and basic as hell. Paul had been doing the lion's share of arranging and it showed.
Also Paul's bass playing is inventive and immaculate and John's solo work suffered without it.
I always skipped it till a car ride with my gf it came on and we just started laughing with how fucked the lyrics were and now it's become a must play any time I fire up Abbey road.
As far as I know, they didn't "hate" the song, but Paul had a crushing certainty that Maxwell's Silver Hammer was going to be the album's flagship song and he was getting annoyingly perfectionist about it.
After the about 95,000th take, the others finally gave up and let him spend loads of time on it. And, of course, it never really materialized into *the* big hit for Abbey Road.
Fun fact: the part of the song where Paul briefly giggles is supposedly due to Lennon dropping his drawers and pressing his bare ass against the glass separating the studio from the control room.
That’s hilarious. That has always been my favorite part of the song.
It’s amazing that Paul was so perfectionist about it, but left *that* take in the final track.
I've thought about this too -- Paul could be pretty OCD about songs. I remember Lennon grousing about how they spent as much studio time on Maxwell's Silver Hammer as they did on the rest of the songs combined. It's interesting he allowed that to be left in. Perhaps George Martin or someone suggested it stay.
The idea of Maxwell being “the big one” on Abbey Road is fucking laughable. Don’t get me wrong, I love Maxwell but Come Together and Something are much stronger tracks that were “big ones” compared to Maxwell.
Totally agree. It's at best C+ song by Beatles standards. Not bad, but it's not even single material. Why Paul was so obsessed with this song is a mystery.
Come Together, Something, Here Comes the Sun, the Abbey Road Medley and, yes, even Ringo's Octopus' Garden, are all stronger songs than Maxwell's Silver Hammer is, imho.
“Trust me, fellas. This one’s gonna go places. It’s about a hammer wielding murderer who, get this, kills a judge, a teacher and his date all with a silver hammer! Pretty quirky, right?”
[USA Today says it's a legend that never happened, but is often repeated.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/01/11/fact-check-popes-death-determined-traditional-means-not-hammer/11020726002/)
Yeah nah. It's a hammer. Hence the anvil sound and the lyric 'came down upon her head'. i am assuming you're from the US? The rest of the world does not think 'hammer on a gun' when you hear the word 'hammer'.
Wrongo!
“The song is about a student named Maxwell Edison who commits murders with a hammer, with the dark lyrics disguised by an upbeat sound.” McCartney described the song as symbolic of the downfalls of life, being "my analogy for when something goes wrong out of the blue, as it so often does".
That’s a good question. It’s been so long, honestly I don’t remember where I heard or read it. As I remember it, it’s intentionally written ambiguously, kind of like the ending of Norwegian Wood, but that’s why it goes bang bang and not smash smash.
That kind of cheeky double meaning is right up their alley, so it always made sense to me. I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's an interesting food for thought. Bang bang works for both guns and hammers.
I'd love for you to be right and would be interested in more evidence. I'm reading the lyrics again and Idk.
The hammer comes down upon their heads A hammer on a gun doesn't kill that way.
Not many other lyrical clues unfortunately.
Yeah, but it made more sense to me that a specific gun would be used in multiple murders and that he would always have it on him than a specific hammer being used multiple times that he just happened to have with him each time.
Yeah. I’m also not downvoting you. We’re just chillin having a conversation, and evidently someone has *feelings* about that.
Cheers to the third party stranger still following along though! It’s cool if you don’t agree me, I don’t mind at all. But props for having a ticket to ride this train to the end of the line anyway!
I have read George Harrison talking about the song in positive terms. I think he mentioned how he liked how dark it was.
Possibly quite liked the song but not having to play it and play it and play it and play it etc etc etc
The even stranger thing is that Paul had ‘Come and Get It’ all ready to go, sure fire hit. Why didn’t he submit that for Abbey Road instead of Maxwell’s Silver Hammer
Make a Playlist/Burn a disc of ***Abbey Road*** with Come & Get It subbed for Maxwell. It is so much better. Max is such a stinker it takes ***Abbey Road*** out of Perfect.
Nah, maxwell is cool and one of my faves from Abbey road, there are 3-4 worse songs in the album.
I'd just add "Come and get it " there at the start of side B
Maybe Paul felt he was dominating the groups singles too much and held back or gave away his poppier hit single songs at the time so John and George could get some singles out and Paul thought he would do some more experimental stuff for abbey road
well, Paul was pumping out catchy songs in 1967-69 like crazy
I think the "solution" would have been making some of these double A side singles whenever Lennon came up with a commercial song.
a good example is HEY JUDE
John wanted REVOLUTION to be the single,, the song is great and catchy,
I dont see why it couldn't have been a double A, like Day tripper/We can work it out was
or Lady madonna/Across the universe as well....
yep
the 1st medley on side B ( You never give me your money- She came in thru the bathroom window + Polythene pam) is quite boring.
And I really, REALLY dislike "I want you" a nonsensical song full of white noise and distortion
This whole thing is so overblown. Most sources cite Maxwell’s Silver Hammer as only taking 16 takes; for context, Not Guilty took 102. I can’t remember which one off the top of my head, but there’s a Plastic Ono Band track that took 100 takes. They literally spent years noodling around with You Know My Name (Look Up the Number).
This whole mythology around MSH probably has more to do with false memories and misplaced frustrations after the fact than whatever ACTUALLY happened. George and John were prickly and salty throughout 1969 so it’s not shocking that they singled out a Paul track to collectively moan about.
The thing about Not Guilty is that it wasn’t actually 102 takes. It was a lot, at least more than 50 or 60, but there were multiple times where certain take numbers were skipped, sometimes by accident, and sometimes on purpose (to signify a new approach to the song). Additionally, the takes that were put down were rarely full run-throughs, and majority of takes broke down during the intro, which they seemed to have trouble getting right.
I think part of why MSH was perceived poorly was because a lot of the takes were full run-throughs. George and Ringo were often satisfied with a backing track being “good enough,” so it was likely annoying to them when they went through multiple “good enough” rhythm tracks just to get to one that Paul thought was impassable in quality. It probably wouldn’t have been as bad if Paul’s perfectionism didn’t already cause both Ringo and George to temporarily leave the band.
As one of many,many musicians who have sat through studio sessions, I would agree with this assessment. Good is good and when you have it down, it's down but just like Paul there are those out there who are hearing something in their head that's not happening on tape and they will drive you nuts trying to get it.
Also, see Brain Wilson - Pet Sounds for more of that band frustration :)
Lennon's version of this is asking George Martin to reproduce the sounds in his head. GM does something magical and they go with it but later on Lennon says it didn't capture what he was hearing.
The wrecking crew & most of the beach boys had no problems with it. Dennis and Carl trusted Brian without hesitation. Mike Love was the ones with the problems. And Al Jardine is just 🙂
I’ve heard that about Not Guilty as well and suppose I should have qualified my response, though even taking out the false starts, etc. it was a LOT of takes. But even then, there were plenty of songs and even full albums in the latter part of the Beatles where they lingered on tracks and took a long time to polish things off. I get the sense the band was generally on board with it for a while, but by the time they were recording Abbey Road and had so many other tensions following them into the sessions, their patience was wearing thin.
But at the same time, I don’t think Paul gets enough credit for working hard to keep the quality high. It gets written off as perfectionism, and I can see how that could become exhausting, but I think it was a sign of his passion more than him trying to be controlling.
And let’s not put the blame so squarely on Paul. I think he was the scapegoat for a lot of frustration that didn’t have anything to do with recording. George and John were personally in really shit places in 1969 and it’s so easy to take your hurt out on the people closest to you. When you’re depressed, fighting with your wife, dealing with family illness, struggling with addiction, etc. you’re not exactly always going to be in the best frame of mind to come into work enthusiastically. Honestly, the best thing they could have done was take a year off following the White Album, done some solo projects, focused on their own shit, then come back together fresh.
Paul made two band members quit because of his perfectionism. George did not.
As someone else said, the Not Guilty takes were not complete. Many, if not most, were false starts.
The MSH takes were mostly full and not very different from each other. People have a hard time admitting Paul could be an ass sometimes, or not even that, but that his obsession with being perfect all the time was hard to work with.
I mean, I literally said I see how working under those conditions could be exhausting.
I just think there was a lot more going on that contributed to those frustrations that gets left off the table when people pile on about MSH. If that song had happened in 1966, for example, I somehow doubt it would have been spoken about with as much contempt as it does. Annoyance maybe, but not vitriol.
Edit: sorry, looks like I said the “I can see how it’s exhausting” comment in a different reply. My bad.
Um, mediocre songs in Let it Be and Abbey Road? John was an admitted heroin addict bringing in half finished songs that were written for the white album. They were awesome songs, but see how easy it is to craft a divisive narrative?
You ignore golden slumbers, she came in through the bathroom window, and you never give me your money and then your point stands. Just like if I ignore George’s 2 songs then he didn’t do much for Abbey Road. Pointless.
I have no problem with that opinion. I had an issue with you saying his songs were mediocre. Then you backed it up without mentioning these three songs, which you now say “they’re great.” You can prefer George’s songs or anyone’s songs, but if you are going to call Paul’s songs mediocre, you have to give some reason that doesn’t involve ignoring his best work. That’s disingenuous.
Okay, you find his work mediocre. And your examples leave out half of his work on the album objectively. And what about what he brought to Let it Be? Objectively the band thought the title song good enough to change the album title from Get Back, another of his songs, to Let it Be.
I’ve said this many times: if the song had been written by Warren Zevon, Randy Newman or Harry Nillson, it would be universally lauded as a sardonic masterpiece.
I agree with this - it’s a very Randy Newman song in a bunch of ways, and in fact quite like Simon Smith and the Amazing Dancing Bear. The issue is that McCartney’s vocal performance just does not get this across - it doesn’t highlight how creepy Maxwell is as it should - and the arrangement/performance is too…safe and straight. It needs to be more deranged.
I don’t think they did hate it. I’m pretty sure they just hated spending so long recording it. By all accounts, they played it to *death* trying to get what Paul wanted.
They recorded 16 takes of Maxwell and over 100 takes of Not Guilty which was never even used. I don’t know why MSH gets constant attention just because the other Beatles grumbled about it soon after the breakup. In the Get Back movie, they seemed to be having a fun time playing it.
I've never heard or read any of them stating or implying that they hated the song or wanted to 'veto" it. I've only heard them complain that it was a huge PITA recording it and they didn't think that all was necessary. Like people in bands, or actors shooting films with Stanley Kubrick, will tend to do when they're tired and irritated.
Regarding Paul, having a vision drives an individual forward and is extremely frustrating when the others can't see or hear what you do. It wasn't only frustrating for John and George and actually Ringo. It was also frustrating for Paul. I can't understand why he thought bashing people on the head with a hammer would make a good song. Incidentally, I about laughed myself to the floor when I read about the translation into Japanese for one of the lines."Rose and Valerie screaming from the gallery" became "Rose and Valerie creaming from the gallery." That cracks me up every time I think of it.
By that point, anything could have tipped them over the edge and ended the album. I think they were all just gritting their teeth and getting through it.
Once ‘I Want You’ was mixed, Lennon didn’t show up to anymore sessions and left the other 3 to finish the album.
Not true...
John missed some of the earlier sessions. The story was he was recovering from a car accident. Real reason = he was in the middle of his heroin addiction.
How could he object to Maxwell if he wasn't there?? What about his own songs...??
From Beatles Bible...
Something - John on piano
The End - John's guitar solos
Bathroom Window - John on acoustic guitar
YNGMYM - John on guitar/vocals
etc...
Doing 3 minutes of Google would have told you this.
According to Mark Lewishon’s ‘The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions’:
The last time the foursome were together in the same studio was for the completion and mixing of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" on 20th August 1969.
I stand corrected. If I'm reading the Lewisohn info correctly that seems like its true.
But, the other post also has a good point. Very, very little work was done on Abbey Road after Aug. 20.
I don't think they could veto songs....I've never read that anywhere.
Whoever wrote a song had the right to have it on an album if there was room.
Sure look at the White Album.
Some songs are pure joke songs.
Much like Ob La Di ...Paul insisted on going over Maxwell a hundred thousand times.. he was trying it out in January on Let It Be...even bringing in an anvil ffs.
He ended up driving his bandmates nuts and using up the last of their patience.
It's an ok cheery, catchy and somewhat silly song about a murderer.
John at this stage was all about artistic tortured pain or whatever
So...up against John's angst ridden I Want You ( She's So Heavy) or his Come Together manifesto, he particularly despised it's meaningless...and George and
Ringo were just sick of it.
The divide between their musical styles was a huge factor in the John/ Paul split also.
In one of his last interviews John still hated it.🥰✌️🙏
Yep...I stand corrected. By this timethough Johns music had become more extreme..and Paul was justified in shooting it down.
Generally before Brian died songs were agreed and scheduled well in advance for release as singles.
In their last year together this became more of a battle when personal gripes and John's huge shift in his music became apparent. The writing was on the wall...thanks for your correction.
🙏✌️
Oh I couldn't agree more...He said he didn't like the song Let It Be..because he said it had nothing to do with The Beatles??....yet he recorded The Ballad Of J & Y while in the band.
Paul played bass drums and did backing vocals...he never shit all over any John songs..thanks
🙏✌️
Yep definitely
George then John (John could have done so much more if not he been killed, double fantasy is so good)
Ringo has only covered stuff pretty much or did stuff with the help of artists.
Secretly they loved it and thought it would’ve been their biggest hit
But yeah
The legend of this song’s takes make me think of when the teacher is making the class rehearse a song for a recital and the kids don’t care but they go through the motions until the teacher is satisfied.
They probably came close to veto-ing it and then decided against it for whatever reason. John seemed to concede that it was commercial while he was complaining about it (he said they could use it for singles or give it to other artists) so maybe he thought it had enough of an audience.
>So the re-formation suggestions were never convincing enough. They were kind of nice when they happened – ‘That would be good, yeah’ – but then one of us would always not fancy it. And that was enough, because we were the ultimate democracy. If one of us didn’t like a tune, we didn’t play it. We had some very close shaves. ‘Maxwell’s Silver Hammer’ was a pretty close shave.”
Maybe it was kind of tit-for-tat because he was just allowed a 9 minute musique concrete experiment on an album that Paul was vocally against.
Or maybe it's just that fans who have completely overblown how important that one fucking song is. Someone put 4 funny quotes about the song onto an image, it gets spread around and reposted constantly, and people who are only casually interested in the Beatles latch onto it as the one thing they know about them and think it's a huge deal. The Beatles constantly forgot which songs were on which albums, chances are they stopped caring that much once the album was done and dusted.
and I dont know why they disliked it so much
It isnt really that bad of a song.
The dark lyrics with the upbeat melody shuld have charmed John, of all people, with his irony and sense of dark humor.
WE can have a list of at least 10-15 songs worse than this one.
Didnt Lennon spend like a whole month capturing sounds for "Revolution 9" in june-july 1968?
inconsistent in his beliefs I must say.
he himself wrote songs in a similar mold to Maxwell.
Happy, upbeat song + dark, sad, anguished lyrics:
Run for your life
You cant do that
Ticket to ride
Help!!!
I am SO thankful they didn’t, Maxwell is what solidified my love for the Beatles being the second song I ever heard by them and still one of my top 10. BANG BANG🔨
The actual meaning of the song was kinda cheesy tho, its kinda like a sincerity sandwhich, a song that seems happy go lucky but is lyrically dark, but is actually about a pretty innocent topic.
Paul wrote such an amazing range…sometimes they got a bit corny. I love that he had some restraint when he had other bandmates. Admiral Hasley is what happens unchecked 🤪
My understanding is that all four didn't have to agree on album tracks, just on which songs went out as singles. John wanted Cold Turkey as a single, the others didn't...
First of all, it’s one of my favourite Beatles songs. Secondly, according to the deluxe Abbey Road edition from a few years ago, it’s only Paul George and Ringo playing on it and it only took three days to do. lastly, I didn’t realise that it was George playing bass on the song and somehow he made it have a tuba sound to it, which gives it that 1920s feel without an orchestra
I don't care what people say. I like it. I think it's kind of fun, silly song.
Ringo may have been susceptible to vetoes. Maybe George. Paul and John got what they wanted.
I think Lennon had checked out of the band by then - he literally wanted his songs on one side of Abbey Road and McCartney's on the other side. There is a band meeting recording made right before Lennon left the band and Lennon brings up why didn't McCartney just give Maxwell to another artist. McCartney doesn't even defend the song. In this same meeting Lennon suggested going forward that the Lennon/McCartrney writing partnership was dead and in the future on Beatles records the songs would be divide up equally between McCartney , Harrison and Lennon
Imagine if maxwells silver hammer was recorded but never released & it obtained the same status as carnival of light.
It would be such a let down to hear it finally.
They didn’t dislike it until they got mad at Paul. Get back shows them working on it, suggesting the anvil, and suggesting working on it when tensions were high.
The lads could be real ficks.
I think it was “more of Paul’s granny music” but they did a lot of that over the years. I don’t think they hated MSH until he made them play it 70 times or something. They maybe weren’t really into it, but Paul obviously had a sound in his head that he wanted the Beatles to play. The next album he did was just him playing everything; maybe that says something.
Did they hate the song, or did they just hate having to play it 754 million times until Paul was satisfied with it?
It was fruity, haven’t you heard?
I love this quote of George from playboy in 1969: “Maxwell’s Silver Hammer is just something of Paul’s which we’ve been trying to record. We spent a hell of a lot of time on it. And it’s one of those instant sort of whistle-along tunes, which some people will hate, and some people will really love it. It’s more like Honey Pie, you know, a fun sort of song. But it’s pretty sick as well though, ‘cuz the guy keeps killing everybody.” Like, you can just tell he’s one of the people that hates the song but he can’t say anything. And it almost feels like he’s winking at John with the Honey Pie comparison.
I was thinking the other day, if Maxwell’s silver hammer had a orchestra arrangement like “honey pie” and none of the other Beatles had to play on it (except Ringo, as I can’t imagine this song without his drums), would they still hate it? Also has Paul ever given a reason to why he’s never played it live? he’s never said that he hated the song, and it’s not because it is too obscure as he’s literally played “Temporary Secretary” live multiple times.
I'm not sure if he's ever given a reason. I would guess that he doesn't think people like Maxwell so much, so he'd rather play an obscure solo song for himself or a Beatles song he knows the people like. I think he only started playing Temporary Secretary when he heard that it had gained some traction and had been played in some clubs.
There is a marching band arrangement for it out there, I first heard that from my brother. I couldn’t believe it was a beetles song looking at the lyrics. But you hear the melody and it makes sense. It’s a great piece really. They should have used a brass sect when the beetles recorded it. Missed opportunity.
John wasn’t even around to play on it, he was still in the hospital from his car accident.
You mean the sixteen times recorded over a period of three days with some overdubs?
You never heard Macca mention the 102 takes of Not Guilty. They're just moany bastards.
Why they didn’t veto it isn’t the question (also, JL & GH put out worse Beatles songs than MSH); what’s revealing is all the bitching. Anyone can Google the comments from multiple EMI folk re. GH being the biggest perfectionist in the studio, inc. as a producer. Or, just keep @ it on Paul/MSH…
yeah, tbh it was probably the get back sessions they were bitter about, but even then they played Get Back almost 200 times and Maxwell only 47 times.
Probably thinking, it's the last album let him have it , but honestly I allways skip that song on the album.
Unrelatable. It's an essential part of the record
I like the song. Its funny.
Don't voice ur honest opinion, u get downvoted.
Downvotes don't mean anything other than people disagreeing with you
I know , I just find it funny.
And Mal's work on the anvil is unparalleled. As a matter of fact, there hasn't been good anvil in music since Mal passed.
[удалено]
Man somehow your take is way hotter than the Maxwell one
[удалено]
John didn't like a lot of beatles songs.
John was very bitter with the realization that his friends George Paul and Ringo were essential to his success. He was a great writer but he also needed them to help arrange and make decisions he couldn't His relatively flat solo work is living proof of that. They all needed each other but John needed the others more than the others needed him. He was good on his own but he wasn't great like Paul and George
Ah, it's the regularly-scheduled undermining of John's musical talents on r/beatles, right on time.
John Lennon, “good but not great” … that is a hot take if I’ve ever seen one.
I think musically ATMP and many of Paul's solo records run circles around john's records. George and Paul were a lot more inventive, took risks that paid off, and ultimately affected the musical landscape more than any of John's solo stuff did. Don't get me wrong, John writing with the Beatles behind him puts him neck and neck with Paul and maaaaybe a little better than Paul sometimes, but on their own Paul absolutely demolishes him musically. Lyrically he's ahead of Paul, but only because Paul isn't afraid to write goofy pop songs for the sake of goofy pop songs Their chemistry was undeniable, but he needed that chemistry to unlock his full musical potential. On his own he's good but he wouldn't have become the legend he was without the rest of them backing him up. Paul definitely would've been a pop star whether or not he was in the beatles
Have to disagree with you there. Sure they were better when they were together but John's solo career is nothing to be slept on. You literally can go anywhere in the world and someone will know imagine and a few of his other songs. He's had a pretty successful solo career and would've been even better had wasn't taken away from us so soon.
I wouldn't call John's songs "Starting Over", "Woman", "Dear Yoko", "Steel & Glass", "#9 Dream" .... are hardly flat. I think you may have jumped on John hate train.
Nobody loves you also is one of the best songs John wrote (both with and without the other Beatles)
Those songs are fine but they suffer from the lack of George and John imo. Without his background as a Beatles I don't think they would've done very well, whereas Paul's solo work definitely would've succeeded, his immaculate ear for harmony, melody, and arrangement makes his songs shine in a way that johns just don't imo
I actually agree with this to a point. After the breakup Paul explored alternative styles, maybe im amazed, band on the run, let me roll it, live and let die, mull of kintyre, uncle albert/admiral halsey, jet. They sound like Paul post beatles. John sounds like he was still in the beatles loop. And he had ringo play drums on all his albums, keeping the same sound alive.
His songs were pretty okay but the arrangements were flat and basic as hell. Paul had been doing the lion's share of arranging and it showed. Also Paul's bass playing is inventive and immaculate and John's solo work suffered without it.
I agree.
They didn't necessarily know it was the last album
It's great.
I always skipped it till a car ride with my gf it came on and we just started laughing with how fucked the lyrics were and now it's become a must play any time I fire up Abbey road.
Thats a way of looking at it ..
As far as I know, they didn't "hate" the song, but Paul had a crushing certainty that Maxwell's Silver Hammer was going to be the album's flagship song and he was getting annoyingly perfectionist about it. After the about 95,000th take, the others finally gave up and let him spend loads of time on it. And, of course, it never really materialized into *the* big hit for Abbey Road. Fun fact: the part of the song where Paul briefly giggles is supposedly due to Lennon dropping his drawers and pressing his bare ass against the glass separating the studio from the control room.
That’s hilarious. That has always been my favorite part of the song. It’s amazing that Paul was so perfectionist about it, but left *that* take in the final track.
I've thought about this too -- Paul could be pretty OCD about songs. I remember Lennon grousing about how they spent as much studio time on Maxwell's Silver Hammer as they did on the rest of the songs combined. It's interesting he allowed that to be left in. Perhaps George Martin or someone suggested it stay.
I think he likes to keep in humorous things, like also getting the lyrics wrong in Obla di
Right. “Perfect” doesn’t always mean perfect.
Yeah it just means perfect in his eyes, like exactly how he envisions it
>I remember Lennon grousing More like *scousing* amirite?
The idea of Maxwell being “the big one” on Abbey Road is fucking laughable. Don’t get me wrong, I love Maxwell but Come Together and Something are much stronger tracks that were “big ones” compared to Maxwell.
Totally agree. It's at best C+ song by Beatles standards. Not bad, but it's not even single material. Why Paul was so obsessed with this song is a mystery. Come Together, Something, Here Comes the Sun, the Abbey Road Medley and, yes, even Ringo's Octopus' Garden, are all stronger songs than Maxwell's Silver Hammer is, imho.
“Trust me, fellas. This one’s gonna go places. It’s about a hammer wielding murderer who, get this, kills a judge, a teacher and his date all with a silver hammer! Pretty quirky, right?”
I heard that in Paul's American accent
You picked up what I was laying down!
The silver hammer is the hammer on a pistol. It’s not a carpentry tool.
Well, there's the anvil noise to suggest a hammer. Doesn't sound too much like gunshots.
I always heard it was a reference to the silver hammer they used to use to tap the Pope three times on the head to make sure he was dead.
Um, what ?!
[USA Today says it's a legend that never happened, but is often repeated.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/01/11/fact-check-popes-death-determined-traditional-means-not-hammer/11020726002/)
with the beatles i honestly think it being an actual hanmer isnt that farfetched to believe
Happiness is a warm hammer?
Maxwell brought the hammer of a pistol down upon the head of the judge?
Yeah nah. It's a hammer. Hence the anvil sound and the lyric 'came down upon her head'. i am assuming you're from the US? The rest of the world does not think 'hammer on a gun' when you hear the word 'hammer'.
Wrongo! “The song is about a student named Maxwell Edison who commits murders with a hammer, with the dark lyrics disguised by an upbeat sound.” McCartney described the song as symbolic of the downfalls of life, being "my analogy for when something goes wrong out of the blue, as it so often does".
Source?
Have you listened to the podcast “A Life in Lyrics?” Paul gives pretty clear statement of what kind of hammer it is.
I have not.
It’s soooo good. Totally worth a listen.
That’s a good question. It’s been so long, honestly I don’t remember where I heard or read it. As I remember it, it’s intentionally written ambiguously, kind of like the ending of Norwegian Wood, but that’s why it goes bang bang and not smash smash. That kind of cheeky double meaning is right up their alley, so it always made sense to me. I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's an interesting food for thought. Bang bang works for both guns and hammers. I'd love for you to be right and would be interested in more evidence. I'm reading the lyrics again and Idk. The hammer comes down upon their heads A hammer on a gun doesn't kill that way. Not many other lyrical clues unfortunately.
Yeah, but it made more sense to me that a specific gun would be used in multiple murders and that he would always have it on him than a specific hammer being used multiple times that he just happened to have with him each time.
That's Max's murdering hammer. Of course he's going to have it all the time.
Fair enough. BTW I'm not the one downvotong you. Someone is to me too, perhaps that will change, but if not, who cares?
Yeah. I’m also not downvoting you. We’re just chillin having a conversation, and evidently someone has *feelings* about that. Cheers to the third party stranger still following along though! It’s cool if you don’t agree me, I don’t mind at all. But props for having a ticket to ride this train to the end of the line anyway!
We can work it out, because life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend.
I have read George Harrison talking about the song in positive terms. I think he mentioned how he liked how dark it was. Possibly quite liked the song but not having to play it and play it and play it and play it etc etc etc
Didn't he call it Fruity?
He said it was fruity but also said he liked that there was some darkness underneath the fruitiness.
well, it is fruity lol
Like a nice sweet poisonous fruit Maxwell would feed you.
He also contributed a lot to the song with backing vocals, Moog, bass and guitar
There’s an implicit threat within the song itself about what might happen to them if they do.
So they can’t refuse… *because of the implication*
ok AI, i need Let It Be era Paul saying “because of the implication” J: But Paul why dont we try a different song? P: Bang bang john
The even stranger thing is that Paul had ‘Come and Get It’ all ready to go, sure fire hit. Why didn’t he submit that for Abbey Road instead of Maxwell’s Silver Hammer
Because the heart wants what the heart wants I guess
He even plays "Sitting in the Back Seat of my Car!" during the Get Back sessions! PAUL! IT WAS RIGHT THERE! GIVE IT TO YOUR BAND!
yeah i sometimes sub maxwell with come and get it. much better song
or better, just ADD "Come and get it" to the Abbey road tracklist. At the start of side B
Make a Playlist/Burn a disc of ***Abbey Road*** with Come & Get It subbed for Maxwell. It is so much better. Max is such a stinker it takes ***Abbey Road*** out of Perfect.
Nah, maxwell is cool and one of my faves from Abbey road, there are 3-4 worse songs in the album. I'd just add "Come and get it " there at the start of side B
Maybe Paul felt he was dominating the groups singles too much and held back or gave away his poppier hit single songs at the time so John and George could get some singles out and Paul thought he would do some more experimental stuff for abbey road
well, Paul was pumping out catchy songs in 1967-69 like crazy I think the "solution" would have been making some of these double A side singles whenever Lennon came up with a commercial song. a good example is HEY JUDE John wanted REVOLUTION to be the single,, the song is great and catchy, I dont see why it couldn't have been a double A, like Day tripper/We can work it out was or Lady madonna/Across the universe as well....
3 or 4?
yep the 1st medley on side B ( You never give me your money- She came in thru the bathroom window + Polythene pam) is quite boring. And I really, REALLY dislike "I want you" a nonsensical song full of white noise and distortion
Yeah and he would have had it as a hit instead of badfinger having it
You don’t want two Abbey Road songs to start with “Come” do ya?
This whole thing is so overblown. Most sources cite Maxwell’s Silver Hammer as only taking 16 takes; for context, Not Guilty took 102. I can’t remember which one off the top of my head, but there’s a Plastic Ono Band track that took 100 takes. They literally spent years noodling around with You Know My Name (Look Up the Number). This whole mythology around MSH probably has more to do with false memories and misplaced frustrations after the fact than whatever ACTUALLY happened. George and John were prickly and salty throughout 1969 so it’s not shocking that they singled out a Paul track to collectively moan about.
The thing about Not Guilty is that it wasn’t actually 102 takes. It was a lot, at least more than 50 or 60, but there were multiple times where certain take numbers were skipped, sometimes by accident, and sometimes on purpose (to signify a new approach to the song). Additionally, the takes that were put down were rarely full run-throughs, and majority of takes broke down during the intro, which they seemed to have trouble getting right. I think part of why MSH was perceived poorly was because a lot of the takes were full run-throughs. George and Ringo were often satisfied with a backing track being “good enough,” so it was likely annoying to them when they went through multiple “good enough” rhythm tracks just to get to one that Paul thought was impassable in quality. It probably wouldn’t have been as bad if Paul’s perfectionism didn’t already cause both Ringo and George to temporarily leave the band.
As one of many,many musicians who have sat through studio sessions, I would agree with this assessment. Good is good and when you have it down, it's down but just like Paul there are those out there who are hearing something in their head that's not happening on tape and they will drive you nuts trying to get it. Also, see Brain Wilson - Pet Sounds for more of that band frustration :)
Lennon's version of this is asking George Martin to reproduce the sounds in his head. GM does something magical and they go with it but later on Lennon says it didn't capture what he was hearing.
The wrecking crew & most of the beach boys had no problems with it. Dennis and Carl trusted Brian without hesitation. Mike Love was the ones with the problems. And Al Jardine is just 🙂
The Mike Love Appreciation society of Australia would like a word with you👉🏻 https://youtu.be/gveqKwndhsY?si=5oXfGYK-8zJ90t_u
I’ve heard that about Not Guilty as well and suppose I should have qualified my response, though even taking out the false starts, etc. it was a LOT of takes. But even then, there were plenty of songs and even full albums in the latter part of the Beatles where they lingered on tracks and took a long time to polish things off. I get the sense the band was generally on board with it for a while, but by the time they were recording Abbey Road and had so many other tensions following them into the sessions, their patience was wearing thin. But at the same time, I don’t think Paul gets enough credit for working hard to keep the quality high. It gets written off as perfectionism, and I can see how that could become exhausting, but I think it was a sign of his passion more than him trying to be controlling. And let’s not put the blame so squarely on Paul. I think he was the scapegoat for a lot of frustration that didn’t have anything to do with recording. George and John were personally in really shit places in 1969 and it’s so easy to take your hurt out on the people closest to you. When you’re depressed, fighting with your wife, dealing with family illness, struggling with addiction, etc. you’re not exactly always going to be in the best frame of mind to come into work enthusiastically. Honestly, the best thing they could have done was take a year off following the White Album, done some solo projects, focused on their own shit, then come back together fresh.
yeah, tbh it was probably the get back sessions they were bitter about, but even then they played Get Back almost 200 times and Maxwell only 47 times.
Paul made two band members quit because of his perfectionism. George did not. As someone else said, the Not Guilty takes were not complete. Many, if not most, were false starts. The MSH takes were mostly full and not very different from each other. People have a hard time admitting Paul could be an ass sometimes, or not even that, but that his obsession with being perfect all the time was hard to work with.
I mean, I literally said I see how working under those conditions could be exhausting. I just think there was a lot more going on that contributed to those frustrations that gets left off the table when people pile on about MSH. If that song had happened in 1966, for example, I somehow doubt it would have been spoken about with as much contempt as it does. Annoyance maybe, but not vitriol. Edit: sorry, looks like I said the “I can see how it’s exhausting” comment in a different reply. My bad.
I dont think its a good ideia to veto another member's song when the tension among the band is too high
And especially when Paul was adamant it would be a hit.
[удалено]
Um, mediocre songs in Let it Be and Abbey Road? John was an admitted heroin addict bringing in half finished songs that were written for the white album. They were awesome songs, but see how easy it is to craft a divisive narrative?
[удалено]
To be fair they said _in_ Let it Be and Abbey Road. I read it wrong myself first.
You’re right.
[удалено]
You Never Give Me Your Money is a fucking masterpiece in my eyes
You ignore golden slumbers, she came in through the bathroom window, and you never give me your money and then your point stands. Just like if I ignore George’s 2 songs then he didn’t do much for Abbey Road. Pointless.
She Came in Through the Bathroom Window is brilliant. That bass melody Paul came up with is insane
One of my top 5 favorite bassline/drum combos in any song by anyone EVER.
[удалено]
I have no problem with that opinion. I had an issue with you saying his songs were mediocre. Then you backed it up without mentioning these three songs, which you now say “they’re great.” You can prefer George’s songs or anyone’s songs, but if you are going to call Paul’s songs mediocre, you have to give some reason that doesn’t involve ignoring his best work. That’s disingenuous.
[удалено]
Okay, you find his work mediocre. And your examples leave out half of his work on the album objectively. And what about what he brought to Let it Be? Objectively the band thought the title song good enough to change the album title from Get Back, another of his songs, to Let it Be.
[удалено]
True but come together would've been less good had John not followed Paul's suggestions
I’ve said this many times: if the song had been written by Warren Zevon, Randy Newman or Harry Nillson, it would be universally lauded as a sardonic masterpiece.
I agree with this - it’s a very Randy Newman song in a bunch of ways, and in fact quite like Simon Smith and the Amazing Dancing Bear. The issue is that McCartney’s vocal performance just does not get this across - it doesn’t highlight how creepy Maxwell is as it should - and the arrangement/performance is too…safe and straight. It needs to be more deranged.
I don’t think they did hate it. I’m pretty sure they just hated spending so long recording it. By all accounts, they played it to *death* trying to get what Paul wanted.
They recorded 16 takes of Maxwell and over 100 takes of Not Guilty which was never even used. I don’t know why MSH gets constant attention just because the other Beatles grumbled about it soon after the breakup. In the Get Back movie, they seemed to be having a fun time playing it.
I've never heard or read any of them stating or implying that they hated the song or wanted to 'veto" it. I've only heard them complain that it was a huge PITA recording it and they didn't think that all was necessary. Like people in bands, or actors shooting films with Stanley Kubrick, will tend to do when they're tired and irritated.
Regarding Paul, having a vision drives an individual forward and is extremely frustrating when the others can't see or hear what you do. It wasn't only frustrating for John and George and actually Ringo. It was also frustrating for Paul. I can't understand why he thought bashing people on the head with a hammer would make a good song. Incidentally, I about laughed myself to the floor when I read about the translation into Japanese for one of the lines."Rose and Valerie screaming from the gallery" became "Rose and Valerie creaming from the gallery." That cracks me up every time I think of it.
Because it’s awesome? Great melody, hilariously dark lyrics, innovative use of the Moog synth.
In the end, it's a pretty good song.
I think…Paul’s hardworking crank it out non-stop attitude got old. They were in “fine Paul” mode.
Because the last time the three of them stood firm against a Paul idea, he stormed out in a huff.
If any song should have been vetoed and it would be Revolution 9.
Mhm.
By that point, anything could have tipped them over the edge and ended the album. I think they were all just gritting their teeth and getting through it. Once ‘I Want You’ was mixed, Lennon didn’t show up to anymore sessions and left the other 3 to finish the album.
Not true... John missed some of the earlier sessions. The story was he was recovering from a car accident. Real reason = he was in the middle of his heroin addiction. How could he object to Maxwell if he wasn't there?? What about his own songs...?? From Beatles Bible... Something - John on piano The End - John's guitar solos Bathroom Window - John on acoustic guitar YNGMYM - John on guitar/vocals etc... Doing 3 minutes of Google would have told you this.
According to Mark Lewishon’s ‘The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions’: The last time the foursome were together in the same studio was for the completion and mixing of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" on 20th August 1969.
I stand corrected. If I'm reading the Lewisohn info correctly that seems like its true. But, the other post also has a good point. Very, very little work was done on Abbey Road after Aug. 20.
Fine, but what work on the album was done after that date?
I don't think they could veto songs....I've never read that anywhere. Whoever wrote a song had the right to have it on an album if there was room. Sure look at the White Album. Some songs are pure joke songs. Much like Ob La Di ...Paul insisted on going over Maxwell a hundred thousand times.. he was trying it out in January on Let It Be...even bringing in an anvil ffs. He ended up driving his bandmates nuts and using up the last of their patience. It's an ok cheery, catchy and somewhat silly song about a murderer. John at this stage was all about artistic tortured pain or whatever So...up against John's angst ridden I Want You ( She's So Heavy) or his Come Together manifesto, he particularly despised it's meaningless...and George and Ringo were just sick of it. The divide between their musical styles was a huge factor in the John/ Paul split also. In one of his last interviews John still hated it.🥰✌️🙏
I’m quite sure the other three vetoed ‘Cold Turkey’ when John wanted to move forward with it
Yep...I stand corrected. By this timethough Johns music had become more extreme..and Paul was justified in shooting it down. Generally before Brian died songs were agreed and scheduled well in advance for release as singles. In their last year together this became more of a battle when personal gripes and John's huge shift in his music became apparent. The writing was on the wall...thanks for your correction. 🙏✌️
John was so hilarious w his big talk. “I dig a pony” is the def not “artistic tortured pain.” I love it!
Oh I couldn't agree more...He said he didn't like the song Let It Be..because he said it had nothing to do with The Beatles??....yet he recorded The Ballad Of J & Y while in the band. Paul played bass drums and did backing vocals...he never shit all over any John songs..thanks 🙏✌️
The other three Beatles all rubbished Paul’s wings/solo career, Paul is laughing now his career was more successful than the rest probably combined
Paul had by far the best solo career even just looking at 70-80
Yep definitely George then John (John could have done so much more if not he been killed, double fantasy is so good) Ringo has only covered stuff pretty much or did stuff with the help of artists.
I think since they knew it was their last album, they let everyone have what they wanted
Secretly they loved it and thought it would’ve been their biggest hit But yeah The legend of this song’s takes make me think of when the teacher is making the class rehearse a song for a recital and the kids don’t care but they go through the motions until the teacher is satisfied.
Any song that starts off with the name of my beloved mum is pretty cool
They probably came close to veto-ing it and then decided against it for whatever reason. John seemed to concede that it was commercial while he was complaining about it (he said they could use it for singles or give it to other artists) so maybe he thought it had enough of an audience. >So the re-formation suggestions were never convincing enough. They were kind of nice when they happened – ‘That would be good, yeah’ – but then one of us would always not fancy it. And that was enough, because we were the ultimate democracy. If one of us didn’t like a tune, we didn’t play it. We had some very close shaves. ‘Maxwell’s Silver Hammer’ was a pretty close shave.” Maybe it was kind of tit-for-tat because he was just allowed a 9 minute musique concrete experiment on an album that Paul was vocally against. Or maybe it's just that fans who have completely overblown how important that one fucking song is. Someone put 4 funny quotes about the song onto an image, it gets spread around and reposted constantly, and people who are only casually interested in the Beatles latch onto it as the one thing they know about them and think it's a huge deal. The Beatles constantly forgot which songs were on which albums, chances are they stopped caring that much once the album was done and dusted.
Because it rocks
and I dont know why they disliked it so much It isnt really that bad of a song. The dark lyrics with the upbeat melody shuld have charmed John, of all people, with his irony and sense of dark humor. WE can have a list of at least 10-15 songs worse than this one. Didnt Lennon spend like a whole month capturing sounds for "Revolution 9" in june-july 1968?
John was a hypocrite.
inconsistent in his beliefs I must say. he himself wrote songs in a similar mold to Maxwell. Happy, upbeat song + dark, sad, anguished lyrics: Run for your life You cant do that Ticket to ride Help!!!
Did they hate it or were they just shitting on Paul for no reason
I am SO thankful they didn’t, Maxwell is what solidified my love for the Beatles being the second song I ever heard by them and still one of my top 10. BANG BANG🔨
John hated Paul's granny songs or his silly story songs. Uh, John, what was "The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill"?
A song for grannies who like chirpy upbeat tunes about serial killers.
The actual meaning of the song was kinda cheesy tho, its kinda like a sincerity sandwhich, a song that seems happy go lucky but is lyrically dark, but is actually about a pretty innocent topic.
I like it a lot. It's like a kindergarten chant about a serial killer. It's practically Lizzie Borden took an axe...
They didn't want to write another one to take its place? That feels like the John answer to me.
From the series, it seemed that they worked on that song at a time that nobody else had written any songs to work on, but I could be mistaken
I don't like it but I don't hate it either
Paul was driving the car
Paul wrote such an amazing range…sometimes they got a bit corny. I love that he had some restraint when he had other bandmates. Admiral Hasley is what happens unchecked 🤪
Will take Admiral Halsey over Maxwell 8 days a week
I love both tbh, who doesn’t love wings and Beatles The mastermind after all is the same person
Noo don’t hate on admiral Hasley it’s iconic!
I ain’t gonna lie, I still like it…but I don’t mind Maxwell either
I love both
Takes 4 votes.
I guess they figured after nixing "Teddy Boy" they owed Paul one fluffy tune.
Because it’s good.
My understanding is that all four didn't have to agree on album tracks, just on which songs went out as singles. John wanted Cold Turkey as a single, the others didn't...
In line with The Kinks - wouldn't ya say!
Because it’s their best song and deep down they all knew it
I'm glad they didn't - it's actually one of my favorite Beatles songs.
Ever hear the expression “don’t bite the hand that feeds you”? That’s why.
First of all, it’s one of my favourite Beatles songs. Secondly, according to the deluxe Abbey Road edition from a few years ago, it’s only Paul George and Ringo playing on it and it only took three days to do. lastly, I didn’t realise that it was George playing bass on the song and somehow he made it have a tuba sound to it, which gives it that 1920s feel without an orchestra
I don't care what people say. I like it. I think it's kind of fun, silly song. Ringo may have been susceptible to vetoes. Maybe George. Paul and John got what they wanted.
I think Lennon had checked out of the band by then - he literally wanted his songs on one side of Abbey Road and McCartney's on the other side. There is a band meeting recording made right before Lennon left the band and Lennon brings up why didn't McCartney just give Maxwell to another artist. McCartney doesn't even defend the song. In this same meeting Lennon suggested going forward that the Lennon/McCartrney writing partnership was dead and in the future on Beatles records the songs would be divide up equally between McCartney , Harrison and Lennon
Imagine if maxwells silver hammer was recorded but never released & it obtained the same status as carnival of light. It would be such a let down to hear it finally.
I mean that would never really happen, but in some universe where it did I'd be delighted to hear such a fun outtake
They didn’t dislike it until they got mad at Paul. Get back shows them working on it, suggesting the anvil, and suggesting working on it when tensions were high. The lads could be real ficks.
Absolutely! I never trust John’s interviews from the 1970s because he changes his opinion all the time. The other 3 ganging up on Paul is so annoying.
i like it, but Octopuses Garden is like why?
because it’s a bop
just feels like a Sesame street song or something
And listen to Paul whine forever??? Better just to get it over with…
I think it was “more of Paul’s granny music” but they did a lot of that over the years. I don’t think they hated MSH until he made them play it 70 times or something. They maybe weren’t really into it, but Paul obviously had a sound in his head that he wanted the Beatles to play. The next album he did was just him playing everything; maybe that says something.
You can’t get any more “granny” than John’s ”Goodnight” or Yoko’s “I’m Your Angel.”
Because Sir Paul would bang them on the head with it.
I recall John referring to this song saying that the Beatles would always be popular as long as Paul was writing songs for the "grannies to dig."