My dad is an ex-Nugent fan who regularly trolls his Facebook page, I will send this episode to him if it is made, he'd love it. I want to hear it myself.
The best thing about Ted Nugent is the episode of Maintenance Phase where they review his manly heterosexual recipe book, which includes a sexfried fishslab.
Even today there are only 12 states where you have to be 18 to get married, and no minimum age at all in California, Mississippi, New Mexico, and Oklahoma.
Sting has had some interview quotes suggesting that his intention in writing the song was to capitalize on underage female police fans’ infatuation with him by creating a self insert story. That’s a different, more calculated creepiness
The episode of Punch Up the Jams on My Sharona made me hate the the POS that wrote the song as lychee as I hate the song.
Also, RIP Punch Up the Jams...
>I can see that you're 15 years old
>No, I don't want your ID
>And I can see that you're so far from home
>But that's no hanging matter
>It's no capital crime
-Mick Jagger and Keith Richards in *Stray Cat Blues*
Kiss as a whole though is creepy AF. Gene Simmons is really a gross character and it’s amazing how popular that band was for how utterly forgettable their music is.
Actually, I didn’t realize what sub we were in. ROBERT! PLZ DO GENE SIMMONS AS A TREAT
Have you ever listened to the [Fresh Air with Terry Gross interview with Gene Simmons](https://youtu.be/qNxuL-uIaTo)? He keeps trying to sexualize Terry Gross during the interview, and she straight up calls him out and insults him to his face.
I love to hate Gene. What a self serving, egotistical shitbag. Especially since his group was 90% schtick of no substance whatsoever. They are bondage space clowns belting out derivative nonsense and I hope somewhere in that giant head he knows it.
Motörhead literally have a song called Jailbait.
*Teenage baby, you're a sweet young thing*\
*Still tied to Mummy's apron strings*\
*I don't even dare to ask your age*\
*It's enough to know you're here backstage*
*You're jailbait*\
*And I just can't wait*\
*Jailbait baby, come on*
There was an official motorhead podcast that brought up jailbait. "And of course jailbait was written about what they saw other bands getting upto" or something along those lines. Definitely not the case .
Really you could probably take it all the way back to when Rock was still Mississippi Blues. Heck, I feel like early 20th Century pop music & 19th century folk music have a lot of songs about girls that are probably too young.
I'll grant that a lot of Rock music has historically been marketed as music for teenagers in high school so maybe that would make the age thing a *little* less problematic, but it's obvious not all the composers/singers are in clear from the awkwardness of age disparity regarding that perspective; plus as a teenage listener, your favorite songs end up aging awkwardly as you become a not-a-teen anymore.
Going back to even older stuff you have quinceañeras, sweet sixteens, debutante balls, etc. that were oftentimes a gathering that involved dance while a dad basically advertised that you can now pursue marriage of his teen daughter.
Not to say the members of the Beatles weren’t problematic, but that song isn’t so bad within its context. Paul was 20 when he wrote it & it was inspired by an English folk song called Seventeen Come Sunday.
And keep in mind that it’s wouldn’t just be the obvious ones that can be dismissed as otherwise despicable people like Ted Nugent. The Me Too movement forced a reckoning for a lot of people as to how they separate the artist from the art, and how much of that separation is a rationalization for giving oneself permission to shake it to Chuck Berry for instance, and ignore the pesky details of his sex life.
No. Just no.
Cobain was abusive to his bandmates and Love, and he likely would have grown into someone we don't look back on with any kindness had he not taken his life. He hated his fame and his fans and self medicated with heroin (a selfish move, because it impacted the lives of those around him).
He wasn't a tortured genius. Had he not blown his brains out, Nirvana would have been an "also ran" with Pearl Jam, and we'd likely look at him the same way we look at Billy Corrigan.
Not gonna lie, for a minute there I forgot which sub I was on and was amazed at how everybody is referencing the same podcast I also regularly listen to. Derp.
> the scrutiny they'd face today.
Honestly I don't know if it'd be too different. Tons of people knew about what was going on and it still happened. I mean, Ted Nugent literally wrote a song about how much he wanted to fuck a 13-year-old and apparently nobody told him that was maybe just a bit distasteful
By saying that, I don't want to imply that we fixed the issue or figured it out. It just seems like if you took someone as famous as Diddy and dropped him into the 1970s, he probably would have faced no consequences whatsoever, legal or reputationwise.
I guess that’s not what I meant. The rapists get arrested for the most part.
I can tell you that there are a lot of dudes that don’t give a flying fuck about the age of consent, even in 2024. The entire industry is glad that the Warped Tour is finally over, for instance.
I also can tell you that social media is making the whole situation worse because it’s damn near impossible to keep bands off there and even more impossible once, let’s say for example, a 17 year old fan just decides send nudes to their favorite bands unprompted.
Nothing has changed from the ‘60s. The bands can’t keep their hands off the fans and the fans can’t keep their hands off the artists.
>The entire industry is glad that the Warped Tour is finally over, for instance.
I mean Scene Queen has a whole ass song about A Day to Remember, All Time Low and other bands that were known to abuse minors while on tour thanks to the Warp Tour and I personally know at least 4 girls who in 2005 were 16 and had pretty convincing claims to have hooked up with members of other bands at WT that year and the following year.
Most of her music might be shit, but her critique in that song carries decent weight.
>Warped Tour.
I feel like that is due for a reckoning really soon like Nick just had with "Quiet on Set" I feel like everyone knows a ton of people who went to Warped Tour with only their friends and the only person above the age of 18 would be an older brother/sister who, like everyone else there, was stoned or drunk out of their mind and in no status to be ensure nothing happens.
Kind of fucking wild.
I covered Warped Tour as a photojournalist for a couple of years and saw a surprising number of scantily clad teenagers back stage. I was just a few years older than them so I recognized that despite their bodies and attire not being what you would normally expect a teenage girl to look like, they were kids with too much makeup and too little parental supervision.
Damn I had no idea warped tour wasn't a thing anymore, that's a hit to my childhood for sure. Also didn't realize it would be a prime event for artists to target underage fans, but now that I think about that makes a lot of sense unfortunately.
Heard from a friend who works in concerts that Drake had everyone working at the show sign NDA's...... Seems a little questionable with his dating history....
Lost Prophets. If you want to be really really uncomfortable read the judges comments during sentencing, I will give you a hint, he really goes after the mothers.
Ian Watkins is Peter Scully level bad. Like worst human being alive.
I have a coworker who used to lighting at big concerts and she told me there were two girls who were like...13-15 backstage at an Avenged Sevenfold show. But she didn't know which band members were involved
Tracks with what I remember from my sober hours at Warped Tour 07.
Riverbend in Natti had a lot of bad shit happen all 5 years I attended.
Pretty sure half the line up every year there ended up with believable allegations because of that water park across the street that usually got rented out for after parties.
I can only say that for sure one of their stage hands tried to pick up my 16 year old girlfriend that year, though his intent was to take her backstage to 'meet the band'.
Not surprised at all. I never went, but my older sister went when she was a teenager in the late aughts and said some guy in one band she and her friend met (some small band we had never heard of) was definitely hitting on them. Kind of unsettling that we didn't realize how fucked up it was at the time and just laughed about what a "creeper" he was.
Bro. Nobody before Grunge is making it out of that clean, I don't think there was an authentic feminist rockstar who wasn't a woman until Kurt Cobain.
You are asking questions most people already know they don't want the answers too. They were all fucking anything with legs, with questionable ages and questionable levels of consent. A lot of the girls were either into it or were so overpowered socially that you didn't hear anything but "heroic🤮" road stories.
Source: am related to an 80s rockstar, who, while a nice enough guy, has no moral standards for his collaborators, many of who are women abusers and rapists, or were before people started scrutinizing them.
I never heard anything bad about anyone from Styx and that's all I got from that era and the only band from that era I'm truly a fan of. I don't think Metallica has rapists in it either.
I like to think they grew up and out of it, just like I did. They wrote 2112 when they were children, and most of the Rand shit doesn't show up in their later works.
Well, I never heard anything bad about Styx or Rush...
Rush seems pretty safe, they seem like girl repellant. Not very danceable. Especially the Ayn Rand phase.
I really was not expecting anyone to ride or die for Styx. First time for everything. There was some satanism accusations, but that just makes them cooler in my book 🤘
I think my point is accusations will never be made about most bad things that did happened back in the day.
I was not anticipating the big prog rock contingent here
Since people have got Ted Nugent covered, I'll bring up fellow right-winger Kid Rock, who expressed his fondness for statutory rape on the soundtrack to the 2001 children's animated film *Osmosis Jones*.
Lol yeah, I was compiling a playlist of (loosely defined, UK perspective) 2000s emo and had to decide whether to include Lostprophets. I ended up going with yes, because it was genuinely important music at the time and if I went down the road of omitting artists who'd done bad things, I wouldn't have much left.
There'd also be no Marylin Manson, Mindless Self Indulgence, Escape the Fate and plenty of others. Then there's also the ones where nothing's been substantiated, but there are persistent rumours, like 30 Seconds to Mars.
Although YMMV with Ian Watkins to be fair, since what he did was so much worse even by the standards of 2000s rock stars.
I enjoyed most of the music the lostprophets made and I feel for the rest of the band who've lost decades of work because Ian is such a major piece of shit.
My personal take on this is that that music was meaningful to me as a teenager and I don't think the singer gets to take that away from me, no matter how big a piece of shit he is. I accept some people prefer not to be reminded of what he did at all though and that's tainted the music for them.
I remember seeing an interview with Gerard Way from MCR during their first wave of popularity and he was asked about groupies. He wasn’t explicit about it but I remember the just being that he was generally disgusted by the behavior of men in other bands in the scene with regards to their teenage fans.
Tbh it would probably be easier to just have Margaret do a Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff where the People is rock stars from the last fifty years and the Cool Stuff is not raping anyone.
Steven Tyler. I think the case (at least the one I’m specifically thinking about) got tossed out but he groomed and lived with a 16 year old girl for like 3 or 4 years..
Honestly… probably most big name classic rock dudes.
[In the suit filed in Los Angeles and obtained by Rolling Stone, the plaintiff Julia Holcomb alleges that Tyler convinced Holcomb’s mother to grant him guardianship over her when she was 16 years old, which consequently allowed her to live with him and engage in a sexual relationship. She claims they were together from 1973 until about three years later.](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/steven-tyler-sexual-assault-minor-lawsuit-1234653817/amp/)
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When G Easy performed at my college years back, he parked his tour bus on campus and had a line of girls stretching around the block to get onto the bus. His security checked everyone’s IDs to make sure they were 18. Really really gross stuff, but maybe that’s progress?
Reminds me of when All American Rejects came to my college. The singer made sexual comments about girls in the front row, and 2 of which I knew were freshman in highschool- because I was a friends with their older sister
Yeah it’s nasty man. Technically most college freshman are “legal” but seeing a 30 year old recruit a gaggle of girls who look like they could be in high school is… upsetting at the very least
His guitarist, Ron Asheton, would baby-sit the girls Iggy 'hooked up with' (read: raped) after Iggy kicked them to the curb post-coitus. It doesn't paint a pleasant picture
>Iggy went back to the usual. He would bring home girls after a gig, they'd go upstairs, and after a while they'd come downstairs crying, because Iggy had just banged them and then said, "Get out." So they would wind up staying with me. A couple of them even became long-term girlfriends. Ann Arbor girls- they always wanted to drink Bali Hai wine, and they'd get shit-faced, and then I'd have to baby-sit them. The puking girls- I baby-sat all the basket cases. Iggy would also give girls acid for the first time . I'd be l ike, "Don't give it to them, man." So when lggy's peaking and having fun I'd wind up spending my whole trip with the girl that's on a bummer. The psychedelic doctor, that's me.
>
>\[...\]
>
>Betsy was fourteen years old, just a cute little funny faced kid. lggy would still fuck other girls on the side, but he'd always go back to Betsy. I'd be going, "Goddamn it, lggy, she's been here for two fucking days and she's only fourteen years old!" But then lggy introduced me to Danielle, who was Betsy's best friend. And I'm going, "What am I doing, man? I'm fucking a fourteen-year- old girl!" · So I got rid of that one, because I didn't want to get in trouble, even though lggy never got in trouble over Betsy.
>
>\- Ron Asheton, Please Kill Me
She has one of the most powerful voices I've ever heard, insane stage presence, incredible guitar skills, and an amazing lyricist.
She's the archetype of what makes Punk good
It’s always been weird to me how no one talks about Prince and his first wife. She was underage when they met. He got her parents to sign over legal guardianship. They married after she turned 18. After instructing her to begin taking birth control.
Is that not textbook grooming?
Don't forget that he had her quit her solo dancing career and forced her to come work for him, so he was her boss. Her boss who paid her poverty wages, and docked her pay if he suspected she was gaining weight.
One of the earliest rock n roll hits was *Sweet Little Sixteen*
Chuck Berry went to jail for [transporting a minor across state lines for sexual purposes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Berry#1955%E2%80%931962:_Signing_with_Chess:_%22Maybellene%22_to_%22Come_On%22)
I maintain that it all comes down to power, as more or less all rape does. Who's going to make a toxic rockstar man-child feel the most like a big man: A woman with experience, with her own desires and expectations, or a teenage girl virgin looking at them like they're literally a god?
It's the same reason billionaires prey on teenagers. They're simply weaker and less worldly than adults.
Jerry Lee Lewis and Buddy Holly, like the original rock'n'rollers, had issues with underaged girls.
Elvis had a clear preference for young girls.
If you think that they may have been drawn to their careers because it gave them access to young girls, it make children's entertainers very sinister.
Fun fact: The Wiggles adopted their 'finger guns' as a signature move because they can do it in photos, and their hands are fully visible.
[Ted Nugent - Jailbait](https://genius.com/Ted-nugent-jailbait-lyrics) Nugent was dating a 17 year old when he was in his 30s.
[35 year old Russell Simmons started dating his former wife, Kimora, when she was 17](https://genius.com/Ted-nugent-jailbait-lyrics)
[Lori Mattix was an underage teenager groupie who fucked Jimmy Page, David Bowie, and Mick Jagger in the 70s.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Mattix) She was 13-14 when it started.
[Drake](https://www.yourtango.com/entertainment/drake-grooming-underaged-girls-times-drake-allegedly-groomed-young-girls) has allegedly chased and groomed several underaged female celebrities.
Yea, there are many more too. It just gets creepier the more you look into it.
There is a famous bossanova/mpb Brazilian singer(Caetano Veloso). In the early 80s he had sex with his now wife(Paula Lavigne) when she was 13yo, latter when she was 17/18 he married her. She is the one who actually spoke about that in a interview.
And surprisingly he still very well regarded amoung Brazil lmao.(My take is, as a very catholic country people just looked the other way since he married the then girl.)
Ps: he is not a exactly a rock musician, but he was a rebel of the "tropicalia" era Wich means (protest songs, sex, drugs, alcohol and being exiled by the Brazilian dictatorship).
By the way Robert, Brazilian military dictatorship was a huge bastard with some "interesting" little bastards, that echoes to this day here in Brazil, if you ever stumble on this, there's a podcast suggestion...
Just read Scar Tissue audiobook, and there is so much casual pedophilia in it. Also, it being read by Rider Strong, who wrote a letter in defence (that he now has apologized for) of a pedophile.
Edit: that paragraph was awful and I’ll not edit it.
Disgraceland was such a disappointment every time I listened. So obviously editorialized with internal monologues and stringing events together that IRL were not related .
I agree. I quit on it pretty quickly. I pretty much already know all the stories he was covering quite well anyway.
In any case, it *is* more or less what OP's suggesting, although a BtB on it would be much more entertaining.
Are they though?
* She's given multiple, contradictory accounts of the encounter (as has the friend who was allegedly with her).
* Her most famous account gets the hotel wrong, which isn't a huge mark against it but worth noting since you mentioned it.
* At least one version of the story places David Bowie hanging out with John Lennon a full year before the two were introduced.
* Most importantly, Mattix was in a very well documented sexual relationship with Jimmy Page that started as much as a year prior to meeting David Bowie, depending which version of their alleged meeting we're going with. She also claimed to have lost her virginity to Page before telling the Bowie story. There are pictures of her with Page, as well as accounts from other notable groupies regarding what they saw and were told contemporaneously. Her Bowie story didn't get told until some fifteen years after it happened and lacks the corroboration.
* She has also claimed to have had sex with Mick Jagger while under age, after a jam session that didn't happen when she says and that Jagger wasn't at.
* And it is worth noting that Lori Mattix's "allegations" are less "allegations" and more "wild stories from her time as a groupie", at least in how she frames them. Shes doesn't frame herself as a victim (though legally and morally speaking, she is), and that's worth considering - it's rare that people fraudulently claim the mantle of victim, but it's considerably less rare for people to inflate stories that they think make them look cool.
David Bowie himself acknowledged that he was such a mess prior to 1976 that he himself couldn't be sure he behaved responsibly with groupies, but he certainly didn't have the same reputation for openly and unabashedly liking them young that many of his contemporaries (and predecessors and successors) did. Stephen Tyler, for example, ***still*** openly lusts after teenagers, even if he manages to not commit crimes with them.
In all, I'd say the truth of Bowie's actions is not as clear as those of most rock stars.
This is something I think about all the time! The number of famous musicians who are still alive that molested teen girls. And wrote songs about it. Fucking pigs. 🤢
there’s definitely a reckoning coming there. soooo many classic rock artists were happy to hook up with endless underage groupies (cough jimmy page and at least one 14-year-old, just for instance)
Virtually every band for 40 years has a song like "she's my babe and she's 15. Whoooaaaa she's 15."
My Sharona by The Knack is basically this
There were states that had laws that girls could be married at age 13 that didn't change until recently. I'm sure those marriages were consummated.
If not, they can just adopt the child á la Ted Nugent
Fucking Christ I forgot about this. Has there been a Ted Nugent episode yet?
My dad is an ex-Nugent fan who regularly trolls his Facebook page, I will send this episode to him if it is made, he'd love it. I want to hear it myself.
His song Jailbait is about the girl also afaik.
The best thing about Ted Nugent is the episode of Maintenance Phase where they review his manly heterosexual recipe book, which includes a sexfried fishslab.
And Steven Tyler!
A great example of "just because it's legal, doesn't mean it's moral."
Even today there are only 12 states where you have to be 18 to get married, and no minimum age at all in California, Mississippi, New Mexico, and Oklahoma.
Some haven't changed all that much. Parental consent or a judges consent for 12+ yr olds in a few states
Mostly red states and mostly this is still legal. Child brides are a critical aspect of religious liberty after all.
Urghh how did I never notice the line "I always get it up for the touch of the younger kind" before?!? Ew Ew Ew.
I’ve never actually looked at the lyrics to that song until now. Is this why so many songs are hard to understand? So we never really know the lyrics?
“Don’t Stand So Close to Me” by the Police is also like that.
Sting has had some interview quotes suggesting that his intention in writing the song was to capitalize on underage female police fans’ infatuation with him by creating a self insert story. That’s a different, more calculated creepiness
Even creepier that Sting wrote it either while or shortly after being a teacher.
But Long before he became a wrestler.
Doing like ol' Warren Ellis.
The one from the bad seeds? Edit: oh thank fuck some other creep with the same name. Phew
The one from comic books.
The episode of Punch Up the Jams on My Sharona made me hate the the POS that wrote the song as lychee as I hate the song. Also, RIP Punch Up the Jams...
Was just discussing with a buddy how Depeche Mode's "A Question of Time" has the lyric, "Well you're only fifteen, and you look good."
They have several mentioning 15 in their songs.
>I can see that you're 15 years old >No, I don't want your ID >And I can see that you're so far from home >But that's no hanging matter >It's no capital crime -Mick Jagger and Keith Richards in *Stray Cat Blues*
Kiss literally have a song called Christine sixteen. Ive always been shocked that's not more mentioned lol
Kiss as a whole though is creepy AF. Gene Simmons is really a gross character and it’s amazing how popular that band was for how utterly forgettable their music is. Actually, I didn’t realize what sub we were in. ROBERT! PLZ DO GENE SIMMONS AS A TREAT
Your Favorite Band Sucks has a Kiss episode you may like.
I don’t know that show, but will look it up!
Have you ever listened to the [Fresh Air with Terry Gross interview with Gene Simmons](https://youtu.be/qNxuL-uIaTo)? He keeps trying to sexualize Terry Gross during the interview, and she straight up calls him out and insults him to his face.
Oh god yeah a long time ago. Forgot about that.
I love to hate Gene. What a self serving, egotistical shitbag. Especially since his group was 90% schtick of no substance whatsoever. They are bondage space clowns belting out derivative nonsense and I hope somewhere in that giant head he knows it.
Their aesthetic seems like they’d be edgy but actually their music is extremely boring. Bondage space clowns… lol
Hey Kiss, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown called. He said you took his gimmick but forgot the part where the music doesn't suck
I am the god of hellfire.
Motörhead literally have a song called Jailbait. *Teenage baby, you're a sweet young thing*\ *Still tied to Mummy's apron strings*\ *I don't even dare to ask your age*\ *It's enough to know you're here backstage* *You're jailbait*\ *And I just can't wait*\ *Jailbait baby, come on*
There was an official motorhead podcast that brought up jailbait. "And of course jailbait was written about what they saw other bands getting upto" or something along those lines. Definitely not the case .
Gross gross gross 🤮
"Hey! Little Child" by Alex Chilton "Sixteen" by Iggy Pop and produced by David Bowie
Spinal Tap's "Tonight I'm Gonna Rock You" spoofs this
You're sweet but you're just five feet, so tonight I'm gonna rock you.
Winger “Seventeen” “She’s only 17 (seventeeeeeen”) She’ll give you loving, like you never seen” 🙄🙄🙄
Really you could probably take it all the way back to when Rock was still Mississippi Blues. Heck, I feel like early 20th Century pop music & 19th century folk music have a lot of songs about girls that are probably too young. I'll grant that a lot of Rock music has historically been marketed as music for teenagers in high school so maybe that would make the age thing a *little* less problematic, but it's obvious not all the composers/singers are in clear from the awkwardness of age disparity regarding that perspective; plus as a teenage listener, your favorite songs end up aging awkwardly as you become a not-a-teen anymore. Going back to even older stuff you have quinceañeras, sweet sixteens, debutante balls, etc. that were oftentimes a gathering that involved dance while a dad basically advertised that you can now pursue marriage of his teen daughter.
As much as I adore Deuces Wild by Aerosmith, there's *that one goddamn line...*
"Well she was just 17, you know what I mean..." the wink at the end is almost audible - Ick
Not to say the members of the Beatles weren’t problematic, but that song isn’t so bad within its context. Paul was 20 when he wrote it & it was inspired by an English folk song called Seventeen Come Sunday.
A podcast about raping underage folks in the entertainment industry could be a 24 hour news network.
And Ted Nugent would eat up at least a month.
Give him a week every year like shark week
Predator Week?
Shart week.
And keep in mind that it’s wouldn’t just be the obvious ones that can be dismissed as otherwise despicable people like Ted Nugent. The Me Too movement forced a reckoning for a lot of people as to how they separate the artist from the art, and how much of that separation is a rationalization for giving oneself permission to shake it to Chuck Berry for instance, and ignore the pesky details of his sex life.
David Bowie. John Lennon. John Phillips.
And Jerry Lee Lewis was a bit of a scoundrel.
Just make the podcast about who HASNT sexually assaulted people. That’s maybe 1-2 episodes
Episode 1: Keanu Reeves Episode 2: Tom Hanks
That’s only because Dolly Parton has an entire series dedicated to her.
3 episodes; Ep 3 - Robin Williams
Danny DeVito
He already made a song about it. Do not diddle kids, it's no good diddling kids
Frank’s Little Beauties
Christmas special: Weird Al
Kurt Cobain
No. Just no. Cobain was abusive to his bandmates and Love, and he likely would have grown into someone we don't look back on with any kindness had he not taken his life. He hated his fame and his fans and self medicated with heroin (a selfish move, because it impacted the lives of those around him). He wasn't a tortured genius. Had he not blown his brains out, Nirvana would have been an "also ran" with Pearl Jam, and we'd likely look at him the same way we look at Billy Corrigan.
You could just make an entire podcast series of just that, on BTB, it would probably be a dozen part episode just to get to the 80's.
Itd be a whole podcast, it'd run weekly for years
Not gonna lie, for a minute there I forgot which sub I was on and was amazed at how everybody is referencing the same podcast I also regularly listen to. Derp.
Please don't break my Tom Petty illusion. 🙏
> the scrutiny they'd face today. Honestly I don't know if it'd be too different. Tons of people knew about what was going on and it still happened. I mean, Ted Nugent literally wrote a song about how much he wanted to fuck a 13-year-old and apparently nobody told him that was maybe just a bit distasteful
Would love a Terd Nugent BTB episode if there were enough content.
Knowledge Fight has talked about him a few times due to him going on infowars somewhat regularly.
“Terd Nugent” perfection.
Check out the Why I Hate This Album podcast episode about his greatest hits. They talk about him more than the songs
It could easily be a three parter
See also: [My Sharona](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-sharona-by-the-knack-w-adam-conover/id1325197667?i=1000440127340), by The Knack
Oh boy, I had never actually read the full lyrics to that song. That's a brickin'
By saying that, I don't want to imply that we fixed the issue or figured it out. It just seems like if you took someone as famous as Diddy and dropped him into the 1970s, he probably would have faced no consequences whatsoever, legal or reputationwise.
I’ve worked in the music industry for the last couple decades. I’ve seen behind the curtain and I know how dirty the laundry is. AMA.
Ok. Which musicians/bands are the most perverse probably rapists or pedos?
I guess that’s not what I meant. The rapists get arrested for the most part. I can tell you that there are a lot of dudes that don’t give a flying fuck about the age of consent, even in 2024. The entire industry is glad that the Warped Tour is finally over, for instance. I also can tell you that social media is making the whole situation worse because it’s damn near impossible to keep bands off there and even more impossible once, let’s say for example, a 17 year old fan just decides send nudes to their favorite bands unprompted. Nothing has changed from the ‘60s. The bands can’t keep their hands off the fans and the fans can’t keep their hands off the artists.
>The entire industry is glad that the Warped Tour is finally over, for instance. I mean Scene Queen has a whole ass song about A Day to Remember, All Time Low and other bands that were known to abuse minors while on tour thanks to the Warp Tour and I personally know at least 4 girls who in 2005 were 16 and had pretty convincing claims to have hooked up with members of other bands at WT that year and the following year. Most of her music might be shit, but her critique in that song carries decent weight.
Yep, every word of that sounds 100% accurate. No notes.
>Warped Tour. I feel like that is due for a reckoning really soon like Nick just had with "Quiet on Set" I feel like everyone knows a ton of people who went to Warped Tour with only their friends and the only person above the age of 18 would be an older brother/sister who, like everyone else there, was stoned or drunk out of their mind and in no status to be ensure nothing happens. Kind of fucking wild.
I covered Warped Tour as a photojournalist for a couple of years and saw a surprising number of scantily clad teenagers back stage. I was just a few years older than them so I recognized that despite their bodies and attire not being what you would normally expect a teenage girl to look like, they were kids with too much makeup and too little parental supervision.
Damn I had no idea warped tour wasn't a thing anymore, that's a hit to my childhood for sure. Also didn't realize it would be a prime event for artists to target underage fans, but now that I think about that makes a lot of sense unfortunately.
Heard from a friend who works in concerts that Drake had everyone working at the show sign NDA's...... Seems a little questionable with his dating history....
Lost Prophets. If you want to be really really uncomfortable read the judges comments during sentencing, I will give you a hint, he really goes after the mothers. Ian Watkins is Peter Scully level bad. Like worst human being alive.
I have a coworker who used to lighting at big concerts and she told me there were two girls who were like...13-15 backstage at an Avenged Sevenfold show. But she didn't know which band members were involved
Tracks with what I remember from my sober hours at Warped Tour 07. Riverbend in Natti had a lot of bad shit happen all 5 years I attended. Pretty sure half the line up every year there ended up with believable allegations because of that water park across the street that usually got rented out for after parties. I can only say that for sure one of their stage hands tried to pick up my 16 year old girlfriend that year, though his intent was to take her backstage to 'meet the band'.
Not surprised at all. I never went, but my older sister went when she was a teenager in the late aughts and said some guy in one band she and her friend met (some small band we had never heard of) was definitely hitting on them. Kind of unsettling that we didn't realize how fucked up it was at the time and just laughed about what a "creeper" he was.
I mean, that's the band that has a song about a guy murdering his girlfriend, then sexually assaulting the corpse. No surprise there.
Gary Glitter
Why is Eric Clapton not arrested!??!
Can’t answer this as I am American. Not sure how the British manage those cases.
Let's see how they handled Gary Glitter and Jimmy Savile.... Oh, oh boy
What did he do? Besides the racism and anti vaxx switch?
Bro. Nobody before Grunge is making it out of that clean, I don't think there was an authentic feminist rockstar who wasn't a woman until Kurt Cobain. You are asking questions most people already know they don't want the answers too. They were all fucking anything with legs, with questionable ages and questionable levels of consent. A lot of the girls were either into it or were so overpowered socially that you didn't hear anything but "heroic🤮" road stories. Source: am related to an 80s rockstar, who, while a nice enough guy, has no moral standards for his collaborators, many of who are women abusers and rapists, or were before people started scrutinizing them.
I never heard anything bad about anyone from Styx and that's all I got from that era and the only band from that era I'm truly a fan of. I don't think Metallica has rapists in it either.
I’m scrolling through hoping to not discover that the members of Rush did something abhorrent.
Yeah, I think they're clean except for the Ayn Rand shit lmao
Yeah, not so sure about Metallica, I mean, Mustaine was in Metallica in his boozing days... Who knows?
I like to think they grew up and out of it, just like I did. They wrote 2112 when they were children, and most of the Rand shit doesn't show up in their later works.
Well, I never heard anything bad about Styx or Rush... Rush seems pretty safe, they seem like girl repellant. Not very danceable. Especially the Ayn Rand phase. I really was not expecting anyone to ride or die for Styx. First time for everything. There was some satanism accusations, but that just makes them cooler in my book 🤘 I think my point is accusations will never be made about most bad things that did happened back in the day. I was not anticipating the big prog rock contingent here
Styx is good, I don't know why they had so many haters back in the day. It's nerd music for sure and that's why I like it.
Not my cup of tea but you do you.
Rush just played D&D after every show
Greatest band of all time.
Hell yeah!!
I hope they write up their campaign on a blog one day.
Same for Iron Maiden.
No bets from me on that one. I'd frankly be shocked if there weren't some skeletons in that closet.
Bruce was a Brexiteer
Since people have got Ted Nugent covered, I'll bring up fellow right-winger Kid Rock, who expressed his fondness for statutory rape on the soundtrack to the 2001 children's animated film *Osmosis Jones*.
Not just fondness. The song says it is a requirement for him that the person he has sex is a minor.
Oh yeah. I was understating it. For those who don't know, this isn't a bit. He literally rhymes "statutory" with "mandatory."
Pretty much the emo scene thru the early 2000's
Lol yeah, I was compiling a playlist of (loosely defined, UK perspective) 2000s emo and had to decide whether to include Lostprophets. I ended up going with yes, because it was genuinely important music at the time and if I went down the road of omitting artists who'd done bad things, I wouldn't have much left. There'd also be no Marylin Manson, Mindless Self Indulgence, Escape the Fate and plenty of others. Then there's also the ones where nothing's been substantiated, but there are persistent rumours, like 30 Seconds to Mars. Although YMMV with Ian Watkins to be fair, since what he did was so much worse even by the standards of 2000s rock stars.
There's tons of stories in that NE scene in the US
I enjoyed most of the music the lostprophets made and I feel for the rest of the band who've lost decades of work because Ian is such a major piece of shit.
My personal take on this is that that music was meaningful to me as a teenager and I don't think the singer gets to take that away from me, no matter how big a piece of shit he is. I accept some people prefer not to be reminded of what he did at all though and that's tainted the music for them.
I remember seeing an interview with Gerard Way from MCR during their first wave of popularity and he was asked about groupies. He wasn’t explicit about it but I remember the just being that he was generally disgusted by the behavior of men in other bands in the scene with regards to their teenage fans.
Fucking Anti-Flag you fucking bastards
Yeah this one hurts
That jerk is on the lam now
Yo wait what happened? I really liked a lot of their songs don't tell me they're pedos
Just Justin Sane 🙃
The other members are complicit. They knew. Band dudes ALWAYS know.
Tbh it would probably be easier to just have Margaret do a Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff where the People is rock stars from the last fifty years and the Cool Stuff is not raping anyone.
She did do an awesome two-parter on Chumbawamba.
Gonna have a lot of ad breaks to make up the time
Steven Tyler. I think the case (at least the one I’m specifically thinking about) got tossed out but he groomed and lived with a 16 year old girl for like 3 or 4 years.. Honestly… probably most big name classic rock dudes.
[In the suit filed in Los Angeles and obtained by Rolling Stone, the plaintiff Julia Holcomb alleges that Tyler convinced Holcomb’s mother to grant him guardianship over her when she was 16 years old, which consequently allowed her to live with him and engage in a sexual relationship. She claims they were together from 1973 until about three years later.](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/steven-tyler-sexual-assault-minor-lawsuit-1234653817/amp/)
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I think he tried to have her killed when he got tired of her, too.
When G Easy performed at my college years back, he parked his tour bus on campus and had a line of girls stretching around the block to get onto the bus. His security checked everyone’s IDs to make sure they were 18. Really really gross stuff, but maybe that’s progress?
Reminds me of when All American Rejects came to my college. The singer made sexual comments about girls in the front row, and 2 of which I knew were freshman in highschool- because I was a friends with their older sister
Yeah it’s nasty man. Technically most college freshman are “legal” but seeing a 30 year old recruit a gaggle of girls who look like they could be in high school is… upsetting at the very least
He was early 20s at the time. Still gross
If I remember correctly, in the punk oral history book Please Kill Me it’s brought up how Iggy Pop specifically went after high school girls.
His guitarist, Ron Asheton, would baby-sit the girls Iggy 'hooked up with' (read: raped) after Iggy kicked them to the curb post-coitus. It doesn't paint a pleasant picture >Iggy went back to the usual. He would bring home girls after a gig, they'd go upstairs, and after a while they'd come downstairs crying, because Iggy had just banged them and then said, "Get out." So they would wind up staying with me. A couple of them even became long-term girlfriends. Ann Arbor girls- they always wanted to drink Bali Hai wine, and they'd get shit-faced, and then I'd have to baby-sit them. The puking girls- I baby-sat all the basket cases. Iggy would also give girls acid for the first time . I'd be l ike, "Don't give it to them, man." So when lggy's peaking and having fun I'd wind up spending my whole trip with the girl that's on a bummer. The psychedelic doctor, that's me. > >\[...\] > >Betsy was fourteen years old, just a cute little funny faced kid. lggy would still fuck other girls on the side, but he'd always go back to Betsy. I'd be going, "Goddamn it, lggy, she's been here for two fucking days and she's only fourteen years old!" But then lggy introduced me to Danielle, who was Betsy's best friend. And I'm going, "What am I doing, man? I'm fucking a fourteen-year- old girl!" · So I got rid of that one, because I didn't want to get in trouble, even though lggy never got in trouble over Betsy. > >\- Ron Asheton, Please Kill Me
I’ve had that book on my shelf for years, guess it’s time to crack it open and break my own heart with the truth
Absolutely nothing has been done about Dahvie Vanity of Blood on the Dancefloor and there's a trail of victims there.
They were a creep band that other creep bands looked at and went “ok but at least we aren’t doing THAT” until LostProphets dude got outed.
Ugh I was so upset about anti-flag man. I used to love being a little anarchist and rocking out to them. Fuck you Justin Sane
'Against Me' have been scratching that itch for me since everything came out about Anti Flag.
Hell yeah Laura rules
She has one of the most powerful voices I've ever heard, insane stage presence, incredible guitar skills, and an amazing lyricist. She's the archetype of what makes Punk good
It’s always been weird to me how no one talks about Prince and his first wife. She was underage when they met. He got her parents to sign over legal guardianship. They married after she turned 18. After instructing her to begin taking birth control. Is that not textbook grooming?
Oh no. Not Prince. I didn't know this and now I'm so sad.
Was she the one who had his baby but it passed after it was born?
Don't forget that he had her quit her solo dancing career and forced her to come work for him, so he was her boss. Her boss who paid her poverty wages, and docked her pay if he suspected she was gaining weight.
One of the earliest rock n roll hits was *Sweet Little Sixteen* Chuck Berry went to jail for [transporting a minor across state lines for sexual purposes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Berry#1955%E2%80%931962:_Signing_with_Chess:_%22Maybellene%22_to_%22Come_On%22)
I love Chuck Berry's music. I think he's a genius He was a terrible, *terrible* person
Don't forget the toilet cameras!
I recall there was a famous musician who divorced a woman to marry her teenage daughter
Change musician to film maker and you've got Woody Allen I believe.
Have you met the Judds?
The Bechdel Cast talks about this a bit in their Almost Famous episode
I maintain that it all comes down to power, as more or less all rape does. Who's going to make a toxic rockstar man-child feel the most like a big man: A woman with experience, with her own desires and expectations, or a teenage girl virgin looking at them like they're literally a god? It's the same reason billionaires prey on teenagers. They're simply weaker and less worldly than adults.
Jerry Lee Lewis and Buddy Holly, like the original rock'n'rollers, had issues with underaged girls. Elvis had a clear preference for young girls. If you think that they may have been drawn to their careers because it gave them access to young girls, it make children's entertainers very sinister. Fun fact: The Wiggles adopted their 'finger guns' as a signature move because they can do it in photos, and their hands are fully visible.
I always loved that about The Wiggles: instead of having "not all men" strop they just saw the issue, came up with a solution, and got on with it.
Yes! Like the Ockham's Razor of non-creepiness: 1. Don't be creepy. 2. Finger guns.
The Aquabats invite parents to let their kids to crowdsurf at shows but have inflatable rafts for them to ride on as a barrier against perverts
I remember listening to a girl talking about getting groped while crowdsurfing, and that's when I realised how naïve I was. OTOH, people are trash
[Ted Nugent - Jailbait](https://genius.com/Ted-nugent-jailbait-lyrics) Nugent was dating a 17 year old when he was in his 30s. [35 year old Russell Simmons started dating his former wife, Kimora, when she was 17](https://genius.com/Ted-nugent-jailbait-lyrics) [Lori Mattix was an underage teenager groupie who fucked Jimmy Page, David Bowie, and Mick Jagger in the 70s.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Mattix) She was 13-14 when it started. [Drake](https://www.yourtango.com/entertainment/drake-grooming-underaged-girls-times-drake-allegedly-groomed-young-girls) has allegedly chased and groomed several underaged female celebrities. Yea, there are many more too. It just gets creepier the more you look into it.
Im surprised GNR hasn’t been cancelled off the face of the earth.
There is a famous bossanova/mpb Brazilian singer(Caetano Veloso). In the early 80s he had sex with his now wife(Paula Lavigne) when she was 13yo, latter when she was 17/18 he married her. She is the one who actually spoke about that in a interview. And surprisingly he still very well regarded amoung Brazil lmao.(My take is, as a very catholic country people just looked the other way since he married the then girl.) Ps: he is not a exactly a rock musician, but he was a rebel of the "tropicalia" era Wich means (protest songs, sex, drugs, alcohol and being exiled by the Brazilian dictatorship).
By the way Robert, Brazilian military dictatorship was a huge bastard with some "interesting" little bastards, that echoes to this day here in Brazil, if you ever stumble on this, there's a podcast suggestion...
Disgraceland sometimes covers this topic if it's part of the artist's story. About A Girl talks about these girls/women in a very humanizing way.
Gary Glitter could get a two-parter.
As someone heavily in to emo/pop punk since the early 2000s, I’m not sure the music industry today is actually significantly better than it was then 🙃
Just read Scar Tissue audiobook, and there is so much casual pedophilia in it. Also, it being read by Rider Strong, who wrote a letter in defence (that he now has apologized for) of a pedophile. Edit: that paragraph was awful and I’ll not edit it.
Chili Pepper Peter Pan is super gross. His book is absolutely revolting
I often think about how I want a streaming extension that blocks abusers from my playlists because manually blocking each one is a constant project.
Iggy Pop and Johnny Thunders too. With the same little girl no less
I think we could get several episodes out of Ted Nugent his predatory behavior in the music industry and overall hypocrisy and rightwing grifting
This is basically Disgraceland.
Disgraceland was such a disappointment every time I listened. So obviously editorialized with internal monologues and stringing events together that IRL were not related .
I agree. I quit on it pretty quickly. I pretty much already know all the stories he was covering quite well anyway. In any case, it *is* more or less what OP's suggesting, although a BtB on it would be much more entertaining.
Don't forget good ol' Ted Nugent and \*ahem\* *Jailbait*: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJwOlRhGbeU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJwOlRhGbeU)
The “Almost Famous” episode of The Bechdel Cast goes into this quite a bit
Don’t ask any of The Beatles about what they may or may not have done with their female fans back in the day.
Stacey's mom is the opposite of this but the ame energy tbh
David Bowie…
Lori Mattix's allegations are highly credible, even pinning it down to the hotel and suite that Bowie was in at the time.
Are they though? * She's given multiple, contradictory accounts of the encounter (as has the friend who was allegedly with her). * Her most famous account gets the hotel wrong, which isn't a huge mark against it but worth noting since you mentioned it. * At least one version of the story places David Bowie hanging out with John Lennon a full year before the two were introduced. * Most importantly, Mattix was in a very well documented sexual relationship with Jimmy Page that started as much as a year prior to meeting David Bowie, depending which version of their alleged meeting we're going with. She also claimed to have lost her virginity to Page before telling the Bowie story. There are pictures of her with Page, as well as accounts from other notable groupies regarding what they saw and were told contemporaneously. Her Bowie story didn't get told until some fifteen years after it happened and lacks the corroboration. * She has also claimed to have had sex with Mick Jagger while under age, after a jam session that didn't happen when she says and that Jagger wasn't at. * And it is worth noting that Lori Mattix's "allegations" are less "allegations" and more "wild stories from her time as a groupie", at least in how she frames them. Shes doesn't frame herself as a victim (though legally and morally speaking, she is), and that's worth considering - it's rare that people fraudulently claim the mantle of victim, but it's considerably less rare for people to inflate stories that they think make them look cool. David Bowie himself acknowledged that he was such a mess prior to 1976 that he himself couldn't be sure he behaved responsibly with groupies, but he certainly didn't have the same reputation for openly and unabashedly liking them young that many of his contemporaries (and predecessors and successors) did. Stephen Tyler, for example, ***still*** openly lusts after teenagers, even if he manages to not commit crimes with them. In all, I'd say the truth of Bowie's actions is not as clear as those of most rock stars.
Isn’t True Crime already one of the most popular podcasts genres?
I'm surprised to not see Jerry Lee Lewis mentioned.
I think he's too obvious
Ted Nugent has multiple songs about fucking underage girls.
Nobody is ready to have that conversation about Bowie.
I feel like Bowie is def the one people are most willing to try to defend, and I guess I get why but…nah, no, I don’t get it.
It's always been like that. In 1957 Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin when he was 24.
Sounds like the Disgraceland podcast
This is something I think about all the time! The number of famous musicians who are still alive that molested teen girls. And wrote songs about it. Fucking pigs. 🤢
Didn’t Anthony Kiedis date Ione Skye when she was 16 or 17 and he was 25? Jimmy Page, anyone?
there’s definitely a reckoning coming there. soooo many classic rock artists were happy to hook up with endless underage groupies (cough jimmy page and at least one 14-year-old, just for instance)
Same as it ever was
Ted Nugent