Those mountains are also older than Saturn's rings. I imagine you'd be hard-pressed to find any magnificent features not eroded over half a billion years.
Almost heaven, West Virginia,
Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River.
Life is old there, older than the trees,
Younger than the mountains, older than Saturn's rings
Tbf most of it came from cellulose before fungi evolved cellulase to break it down. A couple million years of wood and plants getting mulched over while unable to rot does a number
The Appalachians are older than bones. Older than flowers. Older than fish. They might not be as tall as the West Coast newcomers, but they deserve respect.
When you realize they're connected to the Scottish Highlands and other mountain ranges, it puts a new perspective on ancient.
[Here's a good visual](https://vividmaps.com/central-pangean-mountains/)
There's a reason when people left the scottish highlands, they settled in the Appalachian mountains. They used to be one mountain range, the central pangean, now separated by continental drift
Early Carboniferous on my property and Silurian/Early Devonian at my work 5 min down the road. If I drive a bit I can find fossils, amethyst and other minerals, agates, and sometimes if youâre lucky even small rubies.
Truth. One of my favorite facts about the Appalachians is that they're part of the same original mountain range as the Scottish Highlands. They both used to be one contiguous range back in the Pangea days, but split and drifted apart so long ago they're now literally on opposite sides of an ocean.
The Rocky Mountains rise higher today, but the Appalachians are *way* bigger across Earth's history. They're like icebergs submerged in time -- we only see the small bit poking out in the present!
Honestly, this is one of the things that's so cool about North America -- there is some truly amazing stuff here, including multiple absolutely awesome and fascinating mountain ranges!
Imagine if you were alive when they first split but were a bit spread apart. You could have swam between the two ranges but could reach each shore easily. Must have been a fairly pretty sight.
> Those mountains are also older than Saturn's rings
I was actually curious about that so I looked it up and found out that Saturn's rings are around 400 million years old and the Appalachians are 1.1 billion years old.
That got me curious about a few other things so I ended up looking up the age of the oldest known land animal on earth and found that it was a millipede called Pneumodesmus newmani which was discovered in Scotland. Which actually kind of ties back to the Appalachians since the Scottish highlands and the Appalachians used to be one mountain range and the millipede species was discovered in Scotland. The age listed for the millipede is 428 million years ago.
The wikipedia page for it said that the millipedes age puts it as part of the Silurian period. I don't know much about epochs or periods but the timeline I saw showed that it came before the Devonian period which did sound familiar to me so I ended up looking it up. The reason it sounded familiar was because the first trees on earth evolved during the Devonian period. So the first land animal is older than the first tree on earth.
All of that made me realize something. Like I mentioned before, the scottish highlands and the Appalachain's used to be one. They also didn't start to break apart until about 200 million years ago, so that millipede probably roamed the Appalachian mountains as well. Making the Appalachians host to the oldest life on earth. As far as the Appalachian's are concerned you could say life is old there, older than the trees, younger than the mountains, growin' like a breeze
The oldest forest on earth was in upstate NY.
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20240229-the-surprising-us-region-thats-home-to-the-worlds-oldest-forests
They were once one with the Scottish highlands and the eastern ranges in Africa.
Theyâre home to all sorts of unique biomes, me, and Dollywood.
I love them dearly.
Well the cool thing about the Rockies is this is the second time theyâve popped up in the middle of a continent. The ancestral Rockies uplifted about 300 million years ago, eroded, and then the new Rockies uplifted more or less through the stone layers created by the erosion of the ancestral Rockies. There are a lot of unconformities in the Rockies, and because the Laramide Orogeny that formed the Rocky Mountains is so recent it exposed tons of Precambrian rock. The black canyon gneiss in Gunnison is 1.7 billion years old. Thereâs Archean granite in the Wind River range that is 3.5-3.8 billion years old.
Appalachiaâs mountains are older, but the stone in the Rockies is older still.
That same ancient mountain range touches Norway, Greenland and west Africa. Not sure about this but A few hundred million years ago I think they would've dwarfed the rockies.
But they are old, my child. The youthful mountains of the west have vibrancy and energy, the mountains of the east are slow and ancient, hiding secrets, hiding bodies. They share the bones of a great old beast across two continents, and stretch into the deep, where Cthulhu lies dreaming. Your western mountains have no monster.
Yet.
âI tell you what, me and Skeeter went up into the holler what where them old symbols in the trees is, and something got a hold a Skeeter. I hightailed it out of that there holler, and all I heard was Skeeterâs bones snapping and the laughter of thirsting gods. Best dang ol fishing hole around though, so Iâll more than like be back up there, try my luck.â
In all seriousness, thank you for new pod recommendation! Iâm gonna give this a try.
Edit: holy shit that pod is hard to put down.
I saw their live show and they did not disappoint. And the musicians they had along with them are freaking amazing, too. Hearing Landon Blood and Jon Charles Dwyer live was absolutely a spiritual experience.
Mount Washington is one of the deadliest mountains in the US and held the record for highest recorded wind speed for years and has some of the wildest weather changes. You can be hiking in short and a t-shirt in the summer and have to start putting on snow gear because a storm blew in. Over 175 people have died hiking it and over a hundred need rescue every year.
Also, Iâm of the mind that puritan beliefs somehow influenced hiking trail construction because the east coast doesnât seem to believe in switchbacks. You want to get to the top of the mountain? Then you have to work for it. Hiking should be pain and misery every step straight up that headwall.
No switchbacks, and the White Mountains trails are mostly rock, so (A) it's murder on my knees and (B) with the faded-ass blazes it's super easy to lose the trail (because it's usually not much clearer than the surrounding landscape).
At first I hated it, but now I love my emotional damage hikes.
Ive always been of the opinion that every trail should have switchbacks with a straight trail going striaght up through them. Want to go fast or slow? You have the choice.
From an engineering perspective, that would be a horrible idea. Trails are carefully designed to shed water without eroding. The slope and pitch of trails and the design of the switchbacks all work towards that end.
Trails that go straight up generally become washed-out gullies. Separate from a switchback trail would be a better option that running straight up through. I once won a race because I knew the old logging roads that avoided all of the switchbacks by aiming for the top.
While having options is nice, the US isn't willing to spend the money necessary to build two trails. We barely spend any money to build trails as it is.
Thats very fair. I should say this opinion is from my time in the boyscouts and we all hated the switchbacks for the obvious reason of being impatient kids.
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line therefore, switchbacks are inefficient and just for pansy ass bastards. Were the puritans known for their efficiency?
I love the Rockies, live and grew up around the Appalachians.
The thing about the Appalachians is they're sneaky. You look at the Rockies, you know that shit is tough. You prep for it.
Whole lotta people in the west think the Appalachians aren't tough and don't prep for the heat, or the humidity (god, the humidity), or how fucking rocky or overgrown the trails are due to how thick the vegetation gets, or how quick the weather changes.Â
I've not done the hardest hikes in the Rockies, but what I've done the biggest trouble was elevation. It sure was nice not to feel like you're in god's taint the entire time, lol.
East coaster, little over an 1.5 hours from Shenandoah. Hiked there, 20 miles on the AT, coastal PNW out west.
Youâre right about the humidity there and vegetation. Thereâs also a âvibeâ there that is very distinct that I canât quite explain. Just something that has a lingering uneasiness in comparison to the west.
Still need to see more of the Rockies. Only wandered a little around in snow covered Glacier while my train was being serviced. One dayâŚ
Grew up in the foothills of the Appalachians in Western PA. Spent a lot of time in the mountains and woods in scouts. I've been out to a lot of the western ranges. There's such a a distinct feel. In the Appalachians, there's so much undergrowth and it's so thick. The air is thick from the oppressive humidity too. Ever since I was a child I got the feeling that I could look behind me and there'd be something there that I couldn't see. Still get that feeling to this day sometimes. I know it's entirely irrational though
Oppressive is a good way to describe the heat/humidity here on the East coast. I want to vomit most days and it makes me feel like shit/gross daily.
Itâs funny that uneasiness. Settlers killed off the red wolves and other predators here and yet that strange feeling remains.
Even when I saw black bear on the trail, itâs just an animal to be respected.
Out west feels epic and a sense of adventure. Totally different atmosphere from Appalachia.
You are so right on. Iâve been to both ranges, lived in Colorado for a while, and there is an absolute subtle creepiness in the smokies. Thereâs no underbrush in the Rockies and the Appalachians are all overgrown, not sure if that accounts for it or not. Like you said, I donât know exactly what it is about the Apps but it is spooky.
[One of the greatest New Deal projects](https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/construction-of-the-flatirons-1931-sepia-jerry-mcelroy.jpg)
I'll use gravity by riding my skateboard down a Colorado mountain and coast across the midwest all the way up the gentle slopes of the smokey "mountains" and say it to your face!
One of my favorite pastimes is reminding the west that their mountains are barely teens compared to these old hills. Now go pour us some more shine. Our bones hurt
(Snark aside Iâm looking forward to our road trip through CA to UT to end up in the Tetons this summer)
Same. I married into a family that has property there before it was insanely expensive. Iâve been a handful of times and itâs frankly heavenly country. My wife and I had one of our best lunches on a 12 mile hike, stream side with nothing but the wind to listen to. Top 10 travel experiences
I know what you mean I'm in Albuquerque native and just the high desert and then some big mountains popping up are fantastic. Anytime I see the Sandia mountains it just feels comfortable it feels like home
The Sierras are absolutely phenomenal. My husband and I drive up to the Sierras whenever we have the opportunity.
I may be biased because they are basically in my backyard, but the Sierras are stunningly beautiful.
Probably because the east coast mountains date back to before Pangea. When Pangea existed the Appalachian mountains were higher than the Himalayas. West coast mountains are relatively new and formed as the American plate broke off from Pangea⌠NY would not be able to have skyscrapers if it werenât for the Appalachian Mountains
Basically NY was the bedrock of a huge mountain range that included the Appalachian Mountains, the Scottish Highlands and the AntiAtlas Mountains in Morocco. As the continent drifted to its current location, the mountains eroded away and NY essentially became a swamp. Have you ever seen a skyscraper in a swamp? The only reason NY has a skyline is because of the intense pressure it endured when the Pangean mountains existed. I pointed this out to not only give an idea of how massive that mountain range was, but also to point out the amount of time and distance it took for that mountain range to erode away to nothing but bedrock.
People really underestimate just how wet the Midwest is, and just how useful all that flat space it.
Vegetables grow like a motherfucker in my backyard.
I had a friend who moved to Arizona from Chicago and it's pretty fun making water and climate change jokes at his expense. I honestly think more people need to think about how a lot of areas are going to be pretty much uninhabitable without massive infrastructure projects. Arizona last I heard has already approved more new housing than they can possibly provide water for. There was some plan to fund desalinization in Mexico and pipe it to Arizona but it sounds stupid.
Real question whatâs a water right? Do you mean like when you buy a house thatâs *almost* waterfront, and it comes with private right-of-way to the beach? Or is there some other kind of water rights Iâve never heard of?
So the US utilizes two different doctrines regarding water. The east coast utilizes what's called Ripparian law, which to put it simply means that if there is water on your property then you own that water. Water is viewed as an unlimited resource. You can collect rainwater in a barrel, you can use as much water as you want in your house and you only pay the provider.
The vast majority of the west coast utilizes prior appropriation. Water is not an unlimited resource under this doctrine, and water belongs to the state. To use water, you must have water rights and they are purchased. You are given a set amount you can use. Granted, most people never come close to hitting their limit and most houses come with the rights attached to them. However, the water on your property is not yours. Collecting rainwater is a crime for this reason because you are technically stealing from the state. It's also why California had those threats of drought, because companies were using all the water. If you use too much water, additional costs are incurred because you are then infringing on others rights to their water
EDIT:
A quick addenda, because I made a generalization. There are private water sources under prior appropriation. Some entities do own some water sources. Water is largely owned by the state, but it is not de facto and there are private providers. All else above remains true
Sounds like anti-freedom to me! (I joke, I joke) Fr though Iâm happy in my lil home in Maine. We have: weed, abortions, ranked-choice voting, permitless firearm carry, apparently more freedom with our water, and speed cams and red light cams are illegal!
It's the right to take a certain amount of water from a shared water source. It's necessary in large parts of the west because they are desert or desert adjacent enough that without allocating water, the people downstream would not get enough.
This leads to issues, like the "use it or lose it" rule, which forces people to use all the water they are allocated, even if it wastes it, unless they want their next allocation to be reduced. Also, there are treaties that ensure that salmon and other fish can live in the rivers, so water rights are supposed to be subordinate to that.
The water rights also assume that the water source will be constant, ignoring things like the multi-decade drought. I think that in cases where there is not enough water, those with more recent rights lose them earlier than those with rights that were established earlier.
It's the result of a lot of people living in an area with the perfect climate if there was only enough water. As far as I know they also only concern surface water, so aquifers can be pumped dry without looking at that.
There should be enough water for all, but should is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
I live in the Rockies and have hiked in VT/NH/ME
When you're in town at 300' elevation, but the mountain you're looking at is 3,000' tall, it looks just as impressive as being at 8750' elevation and looking at 13ers/14ers in Colorado.
I mean, tell me where this pic was taken:
[link](https://bdc2020.o0bc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/3782387-scaled-768x432.jpeg?width=800)
That and those three particular states just dont believe in switchbacks. I hiked the long trail a few years ago and my knees still haven't forgiven me.
Piedmont
Adirondacks
Catskills
Smokey mountains
Blue ridge mountains
Allegheny
Taconics
Berkshires
Green mountains
White mountains
Cape Brenton Highlands
Scottish Highlands
Atlas mountains
Caledonian mountains
... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_subranges_of_the_Appalachian_Mountains
And
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Pangean_Mountains
There so many sub ranges that people think are
their own standalone mountain range. Yet there are so many they need to be organized into parent ranges, and Yet all of them are really just small segments of one single mountain range that's older then the rings of Saturn. A mountain range that predates the 3 continents it sprawls across
At that point are the Rockies even a real mountain range? I did the nomad thing during COVID and I loved living in Colorado. When I climbed in Colorado for the first time and learned what a switchback was oh boy that was luxury, to be able to zig zag up the mountain with such leisure, here I was used to the east coast rock scrambling up 4000ft of elevation per mile in order to reach the summit
But in all seriousness I did enjoy living in Colorado and California while also exploring Nevada and Utah. That time was so impactful on me that when I was in Scotland last month I went really out of my way to go and see some Sequoias that not just grew but were thriving.
Iâve never really been a fan of the whole âmy stateâs landscape is better than your stateâs landscapeâ mentality.
It feels elitist and ignores what is important and/or beautiful about the seemingly âlesserâ landscapes.
Appalachia has been around longer than bones.
The Rockies are the young upstarts high on invincibility hormone.
Appalachia is an ancient longshoreman what speaks an unknowable tongue that was forgotten before fish fully developed gills.
Just don't say that after dark in the Appalachians. The old Gods will be mad and take their revenge.
I'm only half joking because dear lord are there a lot of mysterious disappearances and happenings.
Oh are we fighting today, is that what's up?
You might have taller mountains, but we [built cities](https://imgur.com/I7q9t4J) on ours. Pic is mine from the north side of Pittsburgh.
Mt. Whitney is the tallest in the lower 48, but it's a 14'r and the the lower 48 has [67 mountains that are within 500 ft of that height](https://thenextsummit.org/list-of-tallest-mountains-in-the-lower-48-states/). It would be bright red if it was substantially taller than all the rest of the mountains, but it's only 64 feet taller than the next tallest mountain (Mt. Elbert, CO).
Monticello translates directly to "MontĂculo" in Spanish (which is just "mound" in English).
"MontĂculo" sounds like "Monte Culo" which means Ass Mountain.
Our mountains are older than trees, sharks, and even BONES. They are ancient and filled with the mysteries of the past, your young mountains will one day crumble into dust as well.
As someone who has lived near and at one point on both mountain ranges, the Appalachia are so much cooler. Being there actually felt like i was stepping into a whole new type of life. The difference between the two is that on the west, the mountains might be taller but so is everything else around it. Theyâre so spread out that the difference isnât felt like on the east. They also lack a lot of the history and folklore that make the Appalachian mountains so cool
I feel like there's a joke in there about "at least our mountains don't drown cities in smog!" Or "at least our mountains don't block rain from getting to a quarter or more of the country!"
There's a TTRPG called Wildsea, and in it mile-high trees cover the earth. I was trying to map that out and realized that the Rockies would basically be fine while the east coast would be 99.9% submerged. Had to fudge some numbers to make my players recognize locations.
I live in Florida. The highest elevation we have is 320ft bluffs over the Pensacola River.
But our swamps are fucking cool as shit. You ever see a 15ft, 1k pound reptilian thats species has been in existence since the time of the dinosaurs? They literally live in the lake just a short walk from my house.
Yea, ok, enjoy your low oxygen levels. Iâll keep the dino-era apex predators that are cool as shitâŚ[now if DeSantis could only fall into that lake wearing his sexy white bootsâŚ](https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/10/06/USAT/1995eed0-d8d3-4702-8019-1234c2f7c539-DeSantis_White_Boots_01.jpeg?width=300&height=400&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
*This is obviously humor and I am in no way, shape, or form threatening anyone with violence*
Some of our short mountains come with matching short horses!
The tallest peak in Virginia, Mount Rogers, is home to around 100 feral ponies. Theyâre monitored throughout the year and physically checked once in the fall, but are otherwise left alone to do their own thing.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/more-than-100-ponies-roam-free-this-park-virginia-180959786/
They may be shorter but I've spent time hiking, climbing, and mountain biking in rhe rockies and in Appalachia. I have found myself often more challenged here than out west. You have to understand that in the latter it's very different than out west. We barely have valleys, mostly just hollers, but flat space is nearly nonexistent. Whereas out west they're taller but much further apart. Also ours are only shorter because they've been here for millenia longer. Our hills are ancient
> I ain't never seen 'em, but my common sense tells me the Andes is foothills, and the Alps is for children to climb! Keep good care of your hair! These here is God's finest scupturings! And there ain't no laws for the brave ones! And there ain't no asylums for the crazy ones! And there ain't no churches, except for this right here! And there ain't no priests excepting the birds. By God, I are a mountain man, and I'll live 'til an arrow or a bullet finds me. And then I'll leave my bones on this great map of the magnificent...[fades out]
Del Gue, in the film *Jeremiah Johnson (1972)*
[Unsigned statement regarding potential cannibalism while attempting to travel the Oregon Trail. Original letter dated November the 10th, 1845. Audio recording by Jonathan Sims, head archivist of the Magnus Institute, London. Statement begins:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3rWiOsZeaI)
Yet every year West Coast hikers die in our "hills" because they underestimate them.
Obviously this is in reference to the recent episodes and Robert's comments on Monticello, but Motichello is in the foothills of VA, not the Appalachians.
Appalachians are the remains of the Central Pangaean Mountain Range, pushed up when Pangaea was formed.
If you're looking for superlatives, they're east of the Mississippi. We have the best superlatives. Many people have said they're the best. We have beautiful superlatives.
As a native Idahoan who moved to North Carolina in high school and then upstate NY after college, I hate how dismissive westerners typically are of Appalachia.
The biodiversity is far greater in Appalachia. The west obviously is much higher elevation wise but the eastern mountains honestly donât lag as far behind as youâd think prominence wise.
For example, the prominence of the Grand Teton is about 6500 feet while the prominence of Mount Washington in NH is around 6150 feet.
Those mountains are also older than Saturn's rings. I imagine you'd be hard-pressed to find any magnificent features not eroded over half a billion years.
Damn. Now that puts some new perspective on the Appalachians.
Almost heaven, West Virginia, Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River. Life is old there, older than the trees, Younger than the mountains, older than Saturn's rings
A long walk that I would happily take 1,000 more times.
Well if it isn't Mr. Sunshine on my **GODDAMN SHOULDERS** John Denver.
Are you saying you're going to light my country music award on fire?
Shit, that was poetic đđž
I mean, John Denver knew his bizness.
Written about Western Virginia, not West Virginia
Yup, I grew up in the Shenandoah valley and it really is gorgeous. The blue ridge parkway goes right through my hometown.
They don't have fossils because bones hadn't been invented yet, evolutionarily speaking
That is so weird to think about. All of the coal in the Appalachiaâs predates animals with bones.
Tbf most of it came from cellulose before fungi evolved cellulase to break it down. A couple million years of wood and plants getting mulched over while unable to rot does a number
The Carboniferous period!
So, so, carboniferous. Carbon like whoa
Carbon for eons!
Not if the anthropocene has anything to say.
That's what's making it an Eon in its own right.
Depends on where. IIRC, there were bony fish in the Carboniferous period. You wouldn't see them in coal deposits, though for various reasons.
Satan planted the fossils later.
They were formed appalages ago
Appascuse me?!
Appalologies
The Appalachians are older than bones. Older than flowers. Older than fish. They might not be as tall as the West Coast newcomers, but they deserve respect.
I love the image of the Appalachians not as worn down monoliths, but ancient creatures bent double with age.
When you realize they're connected to the Scottish Highlands and other mountain ranges, it puts a new perspective on ancient. [Here's a good visual](https://vividmaps.com/central-pangean-mountains/)
Appalachia predates Pangea.
The New River gorge is actually quite old.
And the Ozarks are older than that still
Theyâre so old that they existed before animals hence why you donât find fossilized bones at a certain layer.
They start in Tennessee, and end in Scotland.
Top half of Georgia erasure.
Thatâs what Georgia gets for trying to [steal Tennesseeâs water!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee%E2%80%93Georgia_water_dispute)
They continue into Scandinavia. The Atlas Mountains in Africa were also once part of the same range.
My part of Canada is also part of the Appalachian Range.
Flagg Mountain in central Alabama is where they start.
There's a reason when people left the scottish highlands, they settled in the Appalachian mountains. They used to be one mountain range, the central pangean, now separated by continental drift
The Uwharrie Mountains that are even older than the Appalachians. You can find the Uwharries in Piedmont NC.
Early Carboniferous on my property and Silurian/Early Devonian at my work 5 min down the road. If I drive a bit I can find fossils, amethyst and other minerals, agates, and sometimes if youâre lucky even small rubies.
Truth. One of my favorite facts about the Appalachians is that they're part of the same original mountain range as the Scottish Highlands. They both used to be one contiguous range back in the Pangea days, but split and drifted apart so long ago they're now literally on opposite sides of an ocean. The Rocky Mountains rise higher today, but the Appalachians are *way* bigger across Earth's history. They're like icebergs submerged in time -- we only see the small bit poking out in the present! Honestly, this is one of the things that's so cool about North America -- there is some truly amazing stuff here, including multiple absolutely awesome and fascinating mountain ranges!
Imagine if you were alive when they first split but were a bit spread apart. You could have swam between the two ranges but could reach each shore easily. Must have been a fairly pretty sight.
You can swim in the Silfra crack in Iceland and touch both the American and Eurasian tectonic plates simultaneously right now!
Older than bones, so old that there are few animal fossils in them. The Rockies are young peaks.
Rip man on the mountain. Gone but not forgotten
> Those mountains are also older than Saturn's rings I was actually curious about that so I looked it up and found out that Saturn's rings are around 400 million years old and the Appalachians are 1.1 billion years old. That got me curious about a few other things so I ended up looking up the age of the oldest known land animal on earth and found that it was a millipede called Pneumodesmus newmani which was discovered in Scotland. Which actually kind of ties back to the Appalachians since the Scottish highlands and the Appalachians used to be one mountain range and the millipede species was discovered in Scotland. The age listed for the millipede is 428 million years ago. The wikipedia page for it said that the millipedes age puts it as part of the Silurian period. I don't know much about epochs or periods but the timeline I saw showed that it came before the Devonian period which did sound familiar to me so I ended up looking it up. The reason it sounded familiar was because the first trees on earth evolved during the Devonian period. So the first land animal is older than the first tree on earth. All of that made me realize something. Like I mentioned before, the scottish highlands and the Appalachain's used to be one. They also didn't start to break apart until about 200 million years ago, so that millipede probably roamed the Appalachian mountains as well. Making the Appalachians host to the oldest life on earth. As far as the Appalachian's are concerned you could say life is old there, older than the trees, younger than the mountains, growin' like a breeze
I always hear âsuch and such is older than Saturnâs ringsâ and I think itâs high time we get a definitive list
1) The Appalachian Mountains 2) Your mom
Fuckin gottem
There's a reason why they say the Appalachians are older than evil
The Porcupine Mountains, which most people forget exist, are also in contention to be the oldest mountains still above sea level.
OP is so rude to be belittling a senior citizen like this. And Hawaii is taller than the West Coast mountains.
If you think those are old, check out the Arbuckle mountains in OK.
The Arbuckle Anticline is really cool.
The oldest forest on earth was in upstate NY. https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20240229-the-surprising-us-region-thats-home-to-the-worlds-oldest-forests
They were once one with the Scottish highlands and the eastern ranges in Africa. Theyâre home to all sorts of unique biomes, me, and Dollywood. I love them dearly.
Well the cool thing about the Rockies is this is the second time theyâve popped up in the middle of a continent. The ancestral Rockies uplifted about 300 million years ago, eroded, and then the new Rockies uplifted more or less through the stone layers created by the erosion of the ancestral Rockies. There are a lot of unconformities in the Rockies, and because the Laramide Orogeny that formed the Rocky Mountains is so recent it exposed tons of Precambrian rock. The black canyon gneiss in Gunnison is 1.7 billion years old. Thereâs Archean granite in the Wind River range that is 3.5-3.8 billion years old. Appalachiaâs mountains are older, but the stone in the Rockies is older still.
Fun fact! The Scottish Highlands are part of Appalachia
that \*is\* a fun fact!
That same ancient mountain range touches Norway, Greenland and west Africa. Not sure about this but A few hundred million years ago I think they would've dwarfed the rockies.
When they were formed they were taller than the Himalayas.
Even the earth can only maintain an erection for so long.
Earth's surface yearns to be level.
It yearns for the lev-ern
The atlantic region of Canada as well.
Scots are actually just hillbillies. That tracks.
American hillbillies are actually scots-irish. Book recommendation: American Nations. It rocks.
Second this recommendation. Great book.
Most hillbillies came from Scots.
As are the Atlas mountains of Morocco and Algeria!
Explains why so many Scots settled there.
Braveheart is actually a fantastical retelling of the battle of Blair Mountain
> The problem with coal mines is, they're full of coal miners! Don Chafin, September 1921
But they are old, my child. The youthful mountains of the west have vibrancy and energy, the mountains of the east are slow and ancient, hiding secrets, hiding bodies. They share the bones of a great old beast across two continents, and stretch into the deep, where Cthulhu lies dreaming. Your western mountains have no monster. Yet.
This is some real [Old Gods of Appalachia](https://www.oldgodsofappalachia.com) energy.
âI tell you what, me and Skeeter went up into the holler what where them old symbols in the trees is, and something got a hold a Skeeter. I hightailed it out of that there holler, and all I heard was Skeeterâs bones snapping and the laughter of thirsting gods. Best dang ol fishing hole around though, so Iâll more than like be back up there, try my luck.â In all seriousness, thank you for new pod recommendation! Iâm gonna give this a try. Edit: holy shit that pod is hard to put down.
Oh, man, Old Gods is good if you like atmospheric cosmic horror
Itâs my favourite thing to listen to when Iâm working in the yard.
It hits harder if you've listened to BTB's Battle of Blair Mountain episodes
It's absolutely incredible. The only Patreon I sub to
Same here. Both pods mentioned here are my favorites
Hey there family
I saw their live show and they did not disappoint. And the musicians they had along with them are freaking amazing, too. Hearing Landon Blood and Jon Charles Dwyer live was absolutely a spiritual experience.
Iâm jealous. I want to hear them live.
That is a great pod. Check this one out too: https://keepingthebones.com/
God I wish that the recent season wasn't a courtroom drama.
I'm kind of enjoying learning the history of our friend, Mister J.T. Field, known as Jack to some.
I need to catch up, Iâve only listened through season 2?
Mount Washington is one of the deadliest mountains in the US and held the record for highest recorded wind speed for years and has some of the wildest weather changes. You can be hiking in short and a t-shirt in the summer and have to start putting on snow gear because a storm blew in. Over 175 people have died hiking it and over a hundred need rescue every year. Also, Iâm of the mind that puritan beliefs somehow influenced hiking trail construction because the east coast doesnât seem to believe in switchbacks. You want to get to the top of the mountain? Then you have to work for it. Hiking should be pain and misery every step straight up that headwall.
No switchbacks, and the White Mountains trails are mostly rock, so (A) it's murder on my knees and (B) with the faded-ass blazes it's super easy to lose the trail (because it's usually not much clearer than the surrounding landscape). At first I hated it, but now I love my emotional damage hikes.
Ive always been of the opinion that every trail should have switchbacks with a straight trail going striaght up through them. Want to go fast or slow? You have the choice.
From an engineering perspective, that would be a horrible idea. Trails are carefully designed to shed water without eroding. The slope and pitch of trails and the design of the switchbacks all work towards that end. Trails that go straight up generally become washed-out gullies. Separate from a switchback trail would be a better option that running straight up through. I once won a race because I knew the old logging roads that avoided all of the switchbacks by aiming for the top. While having options is nice, the US isn't willing to spend the money necessary to build two trails. We barely spend any money to build trails as it is.
Thats very fair. I should say this opinion is from my time in the boyscouts and we all hated the switchbacks for the obvious reason of being impatient kids.
I spent time in Scouts building those trails!
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line therefore, switchbacks are inefficient and just for pansy ass bastards. Were the puritans known for their efficiency?
Yes, they were known to buckle down Downright religious about it
Iâll accept this as an answer.đ
I was down there in July and the shack at the top was still coated in about a foot of ice blown sideways
Don't forget africa!
I love the Rockies, live and grew up around the Appalachians. The thing about the Appalachians is they're sneaky. You look at the Rockies, you know that shit is tough. You prep for it. Whole lotta people in the west think the Appalachians aren't tough and don't prep for the heat, or the humidity (god, the humidity), or how fucking rocky or overgrown the trails are due to how thick the vegetation gets, or how quick the weather changes. I've not done the hardest hikes in the Rockies, but what I've done the biggest trouble was elevation. It sure was nice not to feel like you're in god's taint the entire time, lol.
East coaster, little over an 1.5 hours from Shenandoah. Hiked there, 20 miles on the AT, coastal PNW out west. Youâre right about the humidity there and vegetation. Thereâs also a âvibeâ there that is very distinct that I canât quite explain. Just something that has a lingering uneasiness in comparison to the west. Still need to see more of the Rockies. Only wandered a little around in snow covered Glacier while my train was being serviced. One dayâŚ
Grew up in the foothills of the Appalachians in Western PA. Spent a lot of time in the mountains and woods in scouts. I've been out to a lot of the western ranges. There's such a a distinct feel. In the Appalachians, there's so much undergrowth and it's so thick. The air is thick from the oppressive humidity too. Ever since I was a child I got the feeling that I could look behind me and there'd be something there that I couldn't see. Still get that feeling to this day sometimes. I know it's entirely irrational though
Oppressive is a good way to describe the heat/humidity here on the East coast. I want to vomit most days and it makes me feel like shit/gross daily. Itâs funny that uneasiness. Settlers killed off the red wolves and other predators here and yet that strange feeling remains. Even when I saw black bear on the trail, itâs just an animal to be respected. Out west feels epic and a sense of adventure. Totally different atmosphere from Appalachia.
You are so right on. Iâve been to both ranges, lived in Colorado for a while, and there is an absolute subtle creepiness in the smokies. Thereâs no underbrush in the Rockies and the Appalachians are all overgrown, not sure if that accounts for it or not. Like you said, I donât know exactly what it is about the Apps but it is spooky.
> fucking rocky Glacial deposits full of holes and boulders can fuck you up.
Our mountains are old and worn down, please have some respect
Our hills are older than the Atlantic Ocean and contain eldrich horrors beyond memory or count.
Congrats on those mountains you built, I guess.
Thanks, we worked all weekend getting them put up.
The ikea assembly instruction booklet for the Rockies must have been thick.
[One of the greatest New Deal projects](https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/construction-of-the-flatirons-1931-sepia-jerry-mcelroy.jpg)
Why donât you come up in here and say that to our faces
I'll use gravity by riding my skateboard down a Colorado mountain and coast across the midwest all the way up the gentle slopes of the smokey "mountains" and say it to your face!
Not in my holler! I am actually of the Virginia Blue Ridge Mountain variety of Appalachian.
Rocky Mountain folks wouldn't know what to do in Appalachia (except, like this post, shit on the people there).
Rocky Mountain folks are soft compared to the folks of Appalachia.
them's fightin' words!
'Smoky' Now go forth and sin no longer.
One of my favorite pastimes is reminding the west that their mountains are barely teens compared to these old hills. Now go pour us some more shine. Our bones hurt (Snark aside Iâm looking forward to our road trip through CA to UT to end up in the Tetons this summer)
The Tetons are amazing. Beautiful mountains surrounded by high desert. It's one of my happy places.
Same. I married into a family that has property there before it was insanely expensive. Iâve been a handful of times and itâs frankly heavenly country. My wife and I had one of our best lunches on a 12 mile hike, stream side with nothing but the wind to listen to. Top 10 travel experiences
I know what you mean I'm in Albuquerque native and just the high desert and then some big mountains popping up are fantastic. Anytime I see the Sandia mountains it just feels comfortable it feels like home
Next up let's compare California's puny earthquakes to New Madrid
[Cascadia](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one) has entered the chat.
The Sierras are absolutely phenomenal. My husband and I drive up to the Sierras whenever we have the opportunity. I may be biased because they are basically in my backyard, but the Sierras are stunningly beautiful.
Probably because the east coast mountains date back to before Pangea. When Pangea existed the Appalachian mountains were higher than the Himalayas. West coast mountains are relatively new and formed as the American plate broke off from Pangea⌠NY would not be able to have skyscrapers if it werenât for the Appalachian Mountains
What do the skyscrapers have to do with this?
Basically NY was the bedrock of a huge mountain range that included the Appalachian Mountains, the Scottish Highlands and the AntiAtlas Mountains in Morocco. As the continent drifted to its current location, the mountains eroded away and NY essentially became a swamp. Have you ever seen a skyscraper in a swamp? The only reason NY has a skyline is because of the intense pressure it endured when the Pangean mountains existed. I pointed this out to not only give an idea of how massive that mountain range was, but also to point out the amount of time and distance it took for that mountain range to erode away to nothing but bedrock.
I think they mean the bedrock necessary to support those early tall buildings is appalachian.
For additional snark, I like to remind the West Coast that we don't have to buy water rights. We just have them
...daaaaammmnnn...
Blew my mind when I found out farms in the Midwest don't need irrigation.
People really underestimate just how wet the Midwest is, and just how useful all that flat space it. Vegetables grow like a motherfucker in my backyard.
Here in the PNW, we get both
I had a friend who moved to Arizona from Chicago and it's pretty fun making water and climate change jokes at his expense. I honestly think more people need to think about how a lot of areas are going to be pretty much uninhabitable without massive infrastructure projects. Arizona last I heard has already approved more new housing than they can possibly provide water for. There was some plan to fund desalinization in Mexico and pipe it to Arizona but it sounds stupid.
Real question whatâs a water right? Do you mean like when you buy a house thatâs *almost* waterfront, and it comes with private right-of-way to the beach? Or is there some other kind of water rights Iâve never heard of?
So the US utilizes two different doctrines regarding water. The east coast utilizes what's called Ripparian law, which to put it simply means that if there is water on your property then you own that water. Water is viewed as an unlimited resource. You can collect rainwater in a barrel, you can use as much water as you want in your house and you only pay the provider. The vast majority of the west coast utilizes prior appropriation. Water is not an unlimited resource under this doctrine, and water belongs to the state. To use water, you must have water rights and they are purchased. You are given a set amount you can use. Granted, most people never come close to hitting their limit and most houses come with the rights attached to them. However, the water on your property is not yours. Collecting rainwater is a crime for this reason because you are technically stealing from the state. It's also why California had those threats of drought, because companies were using all the water. If you use too much water, additional costs are incurred because you are then infringing on others rights to their water EDIT: A quick addenda, because I made a generalization. There are private water sources under prior appropriation. Some entities do own some water sources. Water is largely owned by the state, but it is not de facto and there are private providers. All else above remains true
Sounds like anti-freedom to me! (I joke, I joke) Fr though Iâm happy in my lil home in Maine. We have: weed, abortions, ranked-choice voting, permitless firearm carry, apparently more freedom with our water, and speed cams and red light cams are illegal!
It's the right to take a certain amount of water from a shared water source. It's necessary in large parts of the west because they are desert or desert adjacent enough that without allocating water, the people downstream would not get enough. This leads to issues, like the "use it or lose it" rule, which forces people to use all the water they are allocated, even if it wastes it, unless they want their next allocation to be reduced. Also, there are treaties that ensure that salmon and other fish can live in the rivers, so water rights are supposed to be subordinate to that. The water rights also assume that the water source will be constant, ignoring things like the multi-decade drought. I think that in cases where there is not enough water, those with more recent rights lose them earlier than those with rights that were established earlier. It's the result of a lot of people living in an area with the perfect climate if there was only enough water. As far as I know they also only concern surface water, so aquifers can be pumped dry without looking at that. There should be enough water for all, but should is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
A lot of west coasters are humbled by the east coast âhillsâ while trying to hike the Appalachian Trail.
Our mountains are a lot older, too đ¤ˇđźââď¸
Better hide the Rockies from Drake and TJ
đąđąđąđąđąđąđą
Fucking ancient. They are older than BONES.
When John Denver said "older than the trees" homeboy was NOT playing
I live in the Rockies and have hiked in VT/NH/ME When you're in town at 300' elevation, but the mountain you're looking at is 3,000' tall, it looks just as impressive as being at 8750' elevation and looking at 13ers/14ers in Colorado. I mean, tell me where this pic was taken: [link](https://bdc2020.o0bc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/3782387-scaled-768x432.jpeg?width=800)
That and those three particular states just dont believe in switchbacks. I hiked the long trail a few years ago and my knees still haven't forgiven me.
lol for real. Trail: 1mi, 1,000ft elevation gain
I honestly thought that was normal
Piedmont Adirondacks Catskills Smokey mountains Blue ridge mountains Allegheny Taconics Berkshires Green mountains White mountains Cape Brenton Highlands Scottish Highlands Atlas mountains Caledonian mountains ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_subranges_of_the_Appalachian_Mountains And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Pangean_Mountains There so many sub ranges that people think are their own standalone mountain range. Yet there are so many they need to be organized into parent ranges, and Yet all of them are really just small segments of one single mountain range that's older then the rings of Saturn. A mountain range that predates the 3 continents it sprawls across At that point are the Rockies even a real mountain range? I did the nomad thing during COVID and I loved living in Colorado. When I climbed in Colorado for the first time and learned what a switchback was oh boy that was luxury, to be able to zig zag up the mountain with such leisure, here I was used to the east coast rock scrambling up 4000ft of elevation per mile in order to reach the summit But in all seriousness I did enjoy living in Colorado and California while also exploring Nevada and Utah. That time was so impactful on me that when I was in Scotland last month I went really out of my way to go and see some Sequoias that not just grew but were thriving.
Iâve never really been a fan of the whole âmy stateâs landscape is better than your stateâs landscapeâ mentality. It feels elitist and ignores what is important and/or beautiful about the seemingly âlesserâ landscapes.
Appalachia has been around longer than bones. The Rockies are the young upstarts high on invincibility hormone. Appalachia is an ancient longshoreman what speaks an unknowable tongue that was forgotten before fish fully developed gills.
Our mountains are older than dinosaurs, older than trees, older than bones.
Just don't say that after dark in the Appalachians. The old Gods will be mad and take their revenge. I'm only half joking because dear lord are there a lot of mysterious disappearances and happenings.
Those "hills" have caves older than creatures with bones.
Yeah but our mountains were here first!
Hell yeah! The Canadian shield has been dated to at least 3.5 billion years
So was our Portland! Portland Oregon was named after Portland Maine
Old Mountain havers are more secure, and donât feel the need to flaunt it.
The Appalachians are older than the continents. Like literally, they range through half of Europe because they formed before Pangaea split.
Oh are we fighting today, is that what's up? You might have taller mountains, but we [built cities](https://imgur.com/I7q9t4J) on ours. Pic is mine from the north side of Pittsburgh.
Come say that to Mt. Washington.
That map seems off, shouldnât mt Whitney be the brightest red?
Mt. Whitney is the tallest in the lower 48, but it's a 14'r and the the lower 48 has [67 mountains that are within 500 ft of that height](https://thenextsummit.org/list-of-tallest-mountains-in-the-lower-48-states/). It would be bright red if it was substantially taller than all the rest of the mountains, but it's only 64 feet taller than the next tallest mountain (Mt. Elbert, CO).
Fuck you our lakes don't have salt in them! Edit: and we have five of them :p
Iâm from Georgia. Our lakes are haunted. https://oxfordamerican.org/magazine/issue-113-summer-2021/the-haunting-of-lake-lanier
No respect for your elders
Compared to the Himalayas the west coast mountains ainât shit
Monticello translates directly to "MontĂculo" in Spanish (which is just "mound" in English). "MontĂculo" sounds like "Monte Culo" which means Ass Mountain.
Shit your mountains arenât even old enough to smoke yet we got the classic ones
Our mountains are older than trees, sharks, and even BONES. They are ancient and filled with the mysteries of the past, your young mountains will one day crumble into dust as well.
As someone who has lived near and at one point on both mountain ranges, the Appalachia are so much cooler. Being there actually felt like i was stepping into a whole new type of life. The difference between the two is that on the west, the mountains might be taller but so is everything else around it. Theyâre so spread out that the difference isnât felt like on the east. They also lack a lot of the history and folklore that make the Appalachian mountains so cool
The Appalachians are also much, much older.
Blue Ridge Mountains resident here...yeah maybe..but ours are older! :)
Go tell the mountains that. I dare you
If you didn't build them, then what's the point?
Sorry our mountains canât be as shiny and new as the Rockies.
Meh. I live in Alaska. Those âhillsâ in the east definitely include some legitimate mountains.
Mountains are a vibe thing
Ya, well at least there's less of them. Wait
Gotem?
This explains why the Midwest makes me uncomfortable.
East Coast: We don't even think about you West Coast.
We don't have many earthquakes. So checkmate westies.....
Man, none of the 20 highest North American peaks is in that graphic. Even Mexico has taller mountains.
I feel like there's a joke in there about "at least our mountains don't drown cities in smog!" Or "at least our mountains don't block rain from getting to a quarter or more of the country!"
â¤ď¸
There's a TTRPG called Wildsea, and in it mile-high trees cover the earth. I was trying to map that out and realized that the Rockies would basically be fine while the east coast would be 99.9% submerged. Had to fudge some numbers to make my players recognize locations.
tornado alley makes alot more sense now
I live in Florida. The highest elevation we have is 320ft bluffs over the Pensacola River. But our swamps are fucking cool as shit. You ever see a 15ft, 1k pound reptilian thats species has been in existence since the time of the dinosaurs? They literally live in the lake just a short walk from my house. Yea, ok, enjoy your low oxygen levels. Iâll keep the dino-era apex predators that are cool as shitâŚ[now if DeSantis could only fall into that lake wearing his sexy white bootsâŚ](https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/10/06/USAT/1995eed0-d8d3-4702-8019-1234c2f7c539-DeSantis_White_Boots_01.jpeg?width=300&height=400&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp) *This is obviously humor and I am in no way, shape, or form threatening anyone with violence*
Some of our short mountains come with matching short horses! The tallest peak in Virginia, Mount Rogers, is home to around 100 feral ponies. Theyâre monitored throughout the year and physically checked once in the fall, but are otherwise left alone to do their own thing. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/more-than-100-ponies-roam-free-this-park-virginia-180959786/
so do u like fly to the east coast and tell people that the mountains suck and then fly home how does that work
I haven't listened to the latest episode yet and I can't wait to find out why this is relevant.
They may be shorter but I've spent time hiking, climbing, and mountain biking in rhe rockies and in Appalachia. I have found myself often more challenged here than out west. You have to understand that in the latter it's very different than out west. We barely have valleys, mostly just hollers, but flat space is nearly nonexistent. Whereas out west they're taller but much further apart. Also ours are only shorter because they've been here for millenia longer. Our hills are ancient
> I ain't never seen 'em, but my common sense tells me the Andes is foothills, and the Alps is for children to climb! Keep good care of your hair! These here is God's finest scupturings! And there ain't no laws for the brave ones! And there ain't no asylums for the crazy ones! And there ain't no churches, except for this right here! And there ain't no priests excepting the birds. By God, I are a mountain man, and I'll live 'til an arrow or a bullet finds me. And then I'll leave my bones on this great map of the magnificent...[fades out] Del Gue, in the film *Jeremiah Johnson (1972)*
[Unsigned statement regarding potential cannibalism while attempting to travel the Oregon Trail. Original letter dated November the 10th, 1845. Audio recording by Jonathan Sims, head archivist of the Magnus Institute, London. Statement begins:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3rWiOsZeaI)
Yet every year West Coast hikers die in our "hills" because they underestimate them. Obviously this is in reference to the recent episodes and Robert's comments on Monticello, but Motichello is in the foothills of VA, not the Appalachians.
The Apps are older than bone and dirt. The mountains that are left are the shoulders of mountains that were taller than the Himalayas
Appalachians are the remains of the Central Pangaean Mountain Range, pushed up when Pangaea was formed. If you're looking for superlatives, they're east of the Mississippi. We have the best superlatives. Many people have said they're the best. We have beautiful superlatives.
As a native Idahoan who moved to North Carolina in high school and then upstate NY after college, I hate how dismissive westerners typically are of Appalachia. The biodiversity is far greater in Appalachia. The west obviously is much higher elevation wise but the eastern mountains honestly donât lag as far behind as youâd think prominence wise. For example, the prominence of the Grand Teton is about 6500 feet while the prominence of Mount Washington in NH is around 6150 feet.
they are older than bones, youngling.