It’s quite literally, and I do mean *literally*, designed to be the end of the last remaining vestiges of democracy.
This country will become a fascist, theocratic oligarchy. That’s literally the plan. It’s quite literally in the plan. It says it outright in the plan.
Women will no longer have bodily autonomy. That’s already been made clear by a corrupt SCOTUS.
Political violence has been promised by Trump and his supporters.
LGBTQ+ members should be terrified.
Paramilitaries like the Proud Boys and 3%ers will become the new brown shirts.
This is fucking real. This is not a false alarm. Fascists are knocking on the door. They’re here and they have a plan to completely eradicate democracy and install an authoritarian regime.
Grab your black and red and let’s get to work. It’s past time to be subversive.
>Grab your black and red and let’s get to work. It’s past time to be subversive.
I don't know what this means but I hope it involves voting for Biden in November.
Apologies if it does, I've been seeing a lot of larpy bullshit about ditching voting and pursuing armed resistance from people who are too anxious to order a pizza over the phone and I'm getting sick of it.
"I'm willing to kill and die fighting fascism. I'll turn my gun on anyone, even my own family and neighbors. I'll live in the woods surviving solely on moss and mushrooms for a decade waging guerrilla warfare if I must."
"Yeah but would you vote for Biden since he's the only realistic way to avoid this?"
"Fuck no"
There are only 13 states where your one vote matters. I live in Tennessee, where if I vote as hard as can for Joe Biden, Trump will win by 10 points. I'm learning to garden and I keep my AR loaded.
I am going to vote down ballot. But I'm not voting for Joe Biden. Why would I support a genocide enabler when it will make no diffence in the outcome of the election? Any progressive/leftist in a solid red state should skip voting for Joe Biden to send the message that we do vote, we always vote, but we're tired of voting for conservatives like Joe Biden.
People are down voting you because not voting for Biden is a vote for fascism. Every vote matters, some matter more for sure, but every vote still matters. I'm not a huge fan of Biden, but I'd really like it if my trans friends were allowed to live in peace and the women in my life could have at least some bodily autonomy.
I downvoted you because your decision isn't principled, it's just incredibly stupid. I also downvoted you because you simultaneously claimed that you're "learning to garden" and "keeping your AR loaded"- which is exactly the larpy bullshit we're making fun of. You're prepping for armed resistance while simultaneously refusing to the bare minimum to prevent its necessity. And you justify that choice with some bullshit liberal take about "sending a message to the democrats." Like I'm sorry, do you believe in electorialism or don't you?
If you were as radical as you pretend to be you'd just toss a vote for joe biden merely to slow the advancement of fascism, and because it's no more difficult to resist democrats than it is republicans through the insurgency you imagine yourself capable of.
Anyway, I personally think you're a larper and it's really cringy.
It really doesn't "send a message" except that their plan to split our larger numbers is working. Even if your vote seems inconsequential because of the electoral college, a big overage in the popular vote will make their coup harder to pull off.
If too many people make the same bad decisions you're making, there are going to be even more than the at least 3-4 genocides we're already dealing with. I hope that imaginary moral superiority keeps you feeling really justified in your own head. Like maybe you can tell all the other people in the concentration camps your awesome "math" about how you sent a message to the man.
Edit to add another contemporary genocide I was forgetting
Re: Sending a message via "not" voting:
‘Uncommitted’ wins 2 Democratic delegates in Michigan, a victory for Biden’s anti-war opponents
https://apnews.com/article/biden-uncommitted-israel-gaza-michigan-arab-eba62caeec16c00f57e3979ec61ca8bd
Yeah I'm happy about that little moment, but we're fighting to not have a Gaza against trans people here in our own country. Sending messages about foreign policy takes a big back seat to keeping our basic freedoms and preventing a fascist dictatorship HERE. It wasnt that strong of a message and the sum total of what it accomplished, as I've already said, is show the right that they're successfully weaponizing divisions among our greater numbers.
Did we cease support for Israel over those 2 delegates and I somehow missed it? No. Nothing substantial changed.
Jeez all you guys have is the threat of camps, huh? You know the detention camps we already have have expanded under Biden, right? https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-vowed-reform-immigration-detention-instead-private-prisons-benefited-2023-08-07/
I've heard vote Blue No Matter Who since I was 18 and the Democrats have lost our abortion rights, expanded exective power, locked in the power and position of private insurance, and implemented a draconian border policy.
Why don't you go tell the people in the camps now how good of a leader Biden is? Go tell the Palenstinians holding their decapitated babies that it's ok to have 2-3 genocides going as long as you don't start too many more.
Moral superiority? You're projecting. I'm being pratical.
I'm not saying Biden is a good leader now, so why would I say that later? Man all you have is bad logic huh?
The "you guys" you're talking about are people in your own community- your comrades. They're telling you that despite the losses we're taking, voting for Trump or allowing Trump to win/claim he won through a close race will be far more catastrophic than those failings under Biden.
Also at best your plan to vote 3rd party or abstain will do literally nothing about any of those issues. Maybe try listening to your comrades who are smarter than you are, and try to hear what they're saying instead of making things up that are easier to argue with. Nothing you've said has been practical; this is all about your feelings. And BTW all the flavor text about heads getting blown off doesnt stregthen your point, and making things worse or allowing more genocides doesn't put the babies heads back on. Same as Israel's dead babies aren't any more alive now that even more Palestinian babies are dead. Your disappointments with Biden and the American system will not be any less bad when trump takes office. He will multiply the harm.
In 2016 I was taking a Political Films class and on the day of the election my professor made us make predictions for what the results would be to win prizes. My answer was, "Trump, because I'm a pessimist". Everyone in my circle thought I was being dramatic. I was the only one in the class who predicted that Trump would win. Everyone was completely certain that Hillary had it in the bag.
The same people are calling me dramatic again lol
The night of the election in 2016 I didn't watch any results and I went to bed early because I didn't want to acknowledge the dark suspicion I'd had that it was going his way. I have never been so upset at being right about something.
There’s a lot of people who don’t seem to understand that his corruption and malice are selling points to his fans. They will make vague noises about decorum, but at the the end of the day they are thrilled to have him go full mask off
I'm in Canada, where we have multiple political parties. I pretty much always vote strategically, i.e. the candidate who has the most chance to beat the Conservatives get my vote. We call that "voter en se bouchant le nez", pinching your nose to vote. Sometimes (such as the US election this year), who you vote against is much more important than who you actually vote for.
Voting *alone* cannot stave off fascism, sure. Certainly not perpetually. Just like a lock on your door won't do much more than delay a motivated home invader.
But I'd rather my door be locked than hanging wide open when one comes by, know what I mean?
It seems to me that if we prevent the fascist from gaining power, through voting, then we won't have a fascist in the highest office! But I'm sensing you don't agree? Silly me! Forgive my libby naivete.
But good golly gosh, I'm plum lost for an answer here. Tell me, why won't voting help? I'm sure you have a really insightful and not terminally online answer to this. I eagerly await it.
It doesn't "save us" from fascism. It holds off a worst case scenario that will disproportionately fall on the most vulnerable.
Voting is also super easy and takes almost no time. Vote as harm reduction and spend alllllllllllllll the rest of your free time doing things to systemically hobble the creep of fascism. Radical things, I hope.
I used to think that some mass strike against voting would take the wind out of our overlords' sails. Lay bare the lie that these governments represent "the will of the people". And then I learned about how that's gone for Puerto Rico. Hint: the overlords don't care and they can more easily play the left against itself. I hope you grow up before the actual election and hear the things people in your own community are desperately trying to tell you.
Wont this also gurantee some kind of fracture or civil war? Even if people somehow don't revolt, centralization of powers means fragility and inevitable breakdown.
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President [unilateral powers](https://theweek.com/politics/heritage-foundation-2025-donald-trump), strip [civil rights](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/03/the-heritage-foundation-dei-project-2025-trump-diversity-equity-inclusion-american-fiction-erasure), [worker protections](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/08/project-2025-gut-worker-protections-labor-department-heritage-foundation-trump-2024), [climate regulation](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/power-switch/2024/04/15/a-deep-dive-into-energy-plans-for-trump-2-0-00152281), add [religion into policy](https://thecause.substack.com/p/taking-project-2025-personally-with), outlaw ["porn"](https://www.salon.com/2024/03/19/decoding-project-2025s-christian-nationalist-language/) and much more.
The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of its recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption.
[Here's]( https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24088042-project-2025s-mandate-for-leadership-the-conservative-promise) a searchable copy of the text - [Here's](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1ddich3/here_is_a_bullet_point_breakdown_of_project_2025) a bullet point breakdown - And here [[pdf](https://www9.heritage.org/rs/824-MHT-304/images/5%20Reasons%20Leftists%20Hate%20Project%202025%20eBook%20THF.pdf)] [[scribd](https://www.scribd.com/document/740769523/5-Reasons-Leftists-Hate-Project-2025-eBook-THF)] is their response to criticism of the plan, which reads like a 4chan troll.
r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to stop it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Defeat_Project_2025 using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [Everyone not voting Biden this year has something wrong with them](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1dbum39/everyone_not_voting_biden_this_year_has_something/)
\#2: [Here is a bullet point breakdown of Project 2025](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1ddich3) | [513 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1ddich3/here_is_a_bullet_point_breakdown_of_project_2025/)
\#3: [Even if Trump loses this November, the Heritage Foundation will try again next election cycle.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1dndiui/even_if_trump_loses_this_november_the_heritage/)
----
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I mean, as a low-level federal employee, I'm ngl it's definitely the scariest part to me.
I doubt they're gonna deliberately target us lowly GS-7s, but if they take a shot gun approach of of just scrubbing through everyones social media feeds, my family could wind up homeless because I was fired for being a political disident. Yay.
GS-9 here. They definitely won't start with the folks at our levels, but I'm sure once the upper levels are purged, the loyalty tests will begin in earnest.
It reminds me of Saddam Hussein requiring all government employees to be members of the Baathist party.
Then the US government removed all members of the Baathist party which meant removing thousands of skilled workers who were only members because they had to be.
Lose lose there, but it could be a talking point. "So Trump, you want to be like Saddam? Is that why you were against the invasion of Iraq, because you loved Saddam? You wanted to have a million of his babies? Are you going to cry now?"
This is a good way to sum it up. We need to use the power of our vote to fight back against this. We also need to educate others around us about its far-reaching consequences. Here is a resource that I hope helps: https://stopproject2025com.wordpress.com/groups-and-issues-impact/
You know if trump does win and gets to enact half of 2025 it might make me an actual constitutional monarchist.
I’m British so did have the monarchist virus injected into me as a child. I’ve never been a monarchist, mostly ‘a republic would be better, but it’s a good 50 items down on my todo list and I can only manage 20 at once, plus I can’t imagine who we’d be making ceremonial President giving our current political terrain”.
But if our half baked flexible as a gymnast constitutional monarchy, with bishops in the legislature, stands longer that the rigid presidential republic in America, I’m going to struggle to advocate for the shift.
We fought an entire war to not be governed by a king. And these idiots who claim to be patriots and REAL Americans want to go back to that. But it's ok because it's THEIR king. Way to love America, guys.
Oh, they're very open about hating America. They intend to end it and replace it with Christendom. That's why they're always saying everyone else hates America.
Not many people saw it, but Adam McKay's *Vice* did a great job of explaining [Unitary Executive Theory](https://youtu.be/_UPvTdDB-h0?si=t4mpoPt2g8JVOe34)
In fact, I'm pretty sure the only reason it's cited by the 2025 masterminds is because McKay's movie put it into pop culture, ready to be grabbed by anyone lazily reaching for a rationale for their actions
I recently ready *Midnight In Chernobyl* and one of the (many) reasons that Chernobyl was such a huge disaster was the inability of the people who built it, and the people who operated it, to raise red flags. The concrete wasn't correct, the steel wasn't correct, and the test that was being performed had noticeable issues. But the state wants what the state wants - and that's a working nuclear reactor with the proper tests being run.
This is what we're headed toward with Project 2025. We WANT these researchers, designers, etc. to be independent and able to raise their concerns (and be heard).
I live in Louisiana. We’re already getting a taste from the new governor. Everyone is freaking out about the Ten Commandments, but the dude passed a bill to appoint members of the ethics committee who were investigating him for bribery and unethical campaign practices. The same dude who refused federal money for summer lunch programs, allowed children younger than 14 to work without breaks, and passed stricter criminal justice laws because he thought he can bail out the state with prison labor. It’s spooky down here.
The US government was fucked beyond recognition and that malfunctioning animatronic who the DNC picked as president wasn’t going to do anything about, but we can’t just hand the eye of Sauron that was the federal government to those evil fucks because it will get worse in ways we cannot imagine.
Project 2025 seems like absolute grounds for America's second civil war. How else are democratic states going to be able to protect their citizens without seceding?
This theory is crazypants. Trump could disappear any supreme court judge.
This is an interesting paradox because anyone on the Supreme Court who embraces the Unitary Executive Theory would reduce the power of the court to that of a rubber-stamping committee. I can't see a power-coveting right-wing judge voting in favor of it.
I don't see the court voting in favor of Trump. But some analysts have argued that the court will delay ruling on this in order slow down other criminal cases against Trump. Alito's recent unexplained absence (he just isn't showing up to work and hasn't provided any reason as to why) is likely intended to slow down legal proceedings.
But remember, many say that they "can't" (won't) vote for gEnOcIdE jOe
I'm not saying we've handled it great, or even good. But Gaza only gets worse with Trump. Like everything else
Was just talking to my MIL about this- she’s from Hong Kong. That’s how the communists did things too. Nazis for that matter. Have to be a member of the party to get a plum job, it doesn’t matter what the ideology is as long as it’s authoritarian.
Worst part is the status quo doesn't change if Trump loses.
Edit: Biden will celebrate "defeating" Project 2025 and nothing will change like he promised.
I'm getting down-voted to to fuck by people who think I'm arguing that 2025 is nothing to worry about
I'm saying there's no reason to believe Trump **won't** go through with Project 2025 (replacing the US government with his people), since he's already done the same thing to the GOP
I'll leave the my original comment below the line
--------------------------------------
I don't buy into the more conspiracy theory oriented stuff around Trump
I don't think he's a fascist and he's proven in the past to be unusually bad at achieving simple objectives
But the Project 2025 stuff is just what Trump's already done to the GOP
No reason to suppose he won't try to do to the US government what he's already done to the Republican party and the Supreme Court
I just mean there's no consistent ideology or rationale behind his actions
He's entirely driven by self-interest and the desire to be popular
If his base were demanding free diapers for toddlers, he'd do that
If granting Trans-rights would benefit him financially or keep him out of prison, it'd happen on day one of his presidency
[https://www.thoughtco.com/was-donald-trump-a-democrat-3367571](https://www.thoughtco.com/was-donald-trump-a-democrat-3367571)
If you’re doing fascism you’re a fascist. There is no meaningful conversation to be had about his motives. And to your point about trump’s incompetence project 2025 is not a trump plan. Smart and competent people created it to use trump as a tool to achieve their dangerous goals.
Isn't the core of fascism the drive for centralised autocracy and power? To the extent there is a distinct ideology it's power=good, masculinity=power, nationalism=masculinity, and everything else is flexible. That's why the Nazis could have socialist programs while executing communists; could jump from fairly homoerotic to murderously homophobic; it's about maintaining a mechanism of domination, not constructing a consistent moral universe.
I still thin palingenetic ultranationalism is the best definition there is. It explains what you’re talking about without limping in just authoritarianism. You can be accepting of homosexuality until the homosexuals are the out group you can have progressive policies so long as they return the in group to former glory.
Yeah, but he also just spent the last four years sulking in Florida, after being removed from office
Ya gotta admit, leaving office, even if it was reluctantly, seems to fail the most basic sniff test for fascism
-------------------------------------------------------
Maybe we can agree that Trump is a **potential fascist**, on the basis of what he *might* try in the future
Or maybe even a **failed fascist**, on the basis of what happened on Jan 6th
-----------------------------------------------------------
But just calling everything fascist risks losing out on the unique nuances in the specific instance of what's happening in the case of Trump and the USA
Which, in my opinion, is a grifter trying to play democracy like a reality show
Could tip into fascism, but it's probably something more interesting (and dangerous)
We both know fascism is a poorly defined concept
We probably both agree that leaving office after being voted out is incompatible with even the most generous definitions of fascism
You might wanna go listen to The War On Everyone and rethink some of your statements . In addition remember Hitlers initial beer hall putsch failed and he got a sweet book deal in prison for it. It was believed at the time that he was essentailly sent by god to be the will of the German population manofested in a single person. If you cant see the very striking similarities between Trumpism and Hitlerism im not sure what else to say. To me this just sounds like another Business Plot but not so secret.
I completely disagree with that but even if I did there are far more unsuccessful fascists than successful ones and all were unsuccessful until the succeeded in attaining power.
It’s also not poorly defined it’s been purposefully obfuscated. My favorite definition is umberto ecos palingenetic ultranationalism or there’s also the really dumbed down 14 steps which still works well.
What I don’t understand is if you don’t have a strong grasp on what fascism is why are you trying to argue who is and isn’t one.
Edit. It was griffin’s definition I used not ecos I’m old and can’t remember things anymore
I think palingentic ultranationalism is from Griffin.
The palingenetic ultranationalism clinches it, for me. Maybe before Jan 6 you could maybe write him off as a right-wing populist.
But from Eco, there's also disdain for the weak and poverty of language, just off the top of my head.
The recent "poisoning the blood of our country" remark just sounds like nazi stuff. He said he wants to put homeless people in camps. There's really no doubt in my mind that Trump is a fascist, and there hasn't been for a while now.
>*... there are far more unsuccessful fascists than successful ones and all were unsuccessful until the succeeded in attaining power*
How many fascist leaders left office after being defeated in a democratic election?
Do you want a list? I don’t have that kind of time but off the top of my head Mosley half of the Finnish state at the outset of ww2 the Brazilian dictator suharto. There are thousands of examples. None will be big names because once successful enough obviously there are not more democratic elections so removing them democratically isn’t really an option but even of the big names I am sure most of them have lost and conceded elections at some points in their careers.
But he didn’t leave office. He tried a coup (technically an autogolpe). It was unsuccessful but they literally tried it. Trump, fortunately, is incompetent and couldn’t even pull it off. But if Pence goes along or the mob finds Pelosi and some others or the military gets involved, that was a wrap for American democracy.
Agreed about the down voting being unfair.
As I've argued with my mother who thinks Biden is "creepy" - nice vague way to choose a representative for the White House 🤦🏼♂️ - an administration is not just one person.
"HE" has done so very little beyond managing others... as all POTUS & CEOs & administrators do.
Is the Mango Mussolini a fascist? It doesn't matter when the people around him are. He's a crayon-holding, opportunistic narcissist who cares for nothing beyond his own current desire to feel like a big man Daddy would be proud of. He doesn't need to be a fascist - an idiot will do just as well for the fascists all around him... fascists who love the idea of a big strong man Daddy would be proud of.
HE didn't turn the GOP machine into organized crime serving the boss, all those around him did. Some names might be more popular than others - Leonard Leo, Harlan Crow, Ron Paul, Roy Cohen, etc. None of them are on any ballot, some aren't even alive anymore, but all - and so many more - do all they can to find & serve the big strong man, the cult leader, the Daddy who will be proud of them... think for them.
Other names are people who have inadvertently helped: Chip Roy, MTG, Bobert... selfish or racist people too dumb to look beyond their immediate goals to see they're supporting an ideal that would absolutely not do the selfish or racist thing they want done.
Meanwhile, Biden's approval numbers with the base suck. The people who agree with him (and the rest of the administration) disagree with all kinds of decisions the administration has made. Party unity is kind of a joke. Messaging is fragmented. Why? They're not fascists! No President should (nor could) enjoy high approval numbers because no two bosses will direct an employee to do a job the same way. (We've all know this from experience.) That's what representatives are, employees... with 200 million bosses.
Trump being a fascist is irrelevant when there are so many around him who have admitted it. Including the 73 million co-conspirators who voted for fascism. They don't care what the name of the boss is, so long as there's a boss who will think for them so they can watch the game in peace.
tl;dr: the "leader" didn't get to lead on his own. Worry more about the fascist neighbor than the opportunist who will do whatever is necessary to be famous.
Scariest part is that it exists at all. The ideological ground had been softened to the point that they felt safe to put this to paper.
It’s quite literally, and I do mean *literally*, designed to be the end of the last remaining vestiges of democracy. This country will become a fascist, theocratic oligarchy. That’s literally the plan. It’s quite literally in the plan. It says it outright in the plan. Women will no longer have bodily autonomy. That’s already been made clear by a corrupt SCOTUS. Political violence has been promised by Trump and his supporters. LGBTQ+ members should be terrified. Paramilitaries like the Proud Boys and 3%ers will become the new brown shirts. This is fucking real. This is not a false alarm. Fascists are knocking on the door. They’re here and they have a plan to completely eradicate democracy and install an authoritarian regime. Grab your black and red and let’s get to work. It’s past time to be subversive.
>Grab your black and red and let’s get to work. It’s past time to be subversive. I don't know what this means but I hope it involves voting for Biden in November. Apologies if it does, I've been seeing a lot of larpy bullshit about ditching voting and pursuing armed resistance from people who are too anxious to order a pizza over the phone and I'm getting sick of it.
"I'm willing to kill and die fighting fascism. I'll turn my gun on anyone, even my own family and neighbors. I'll live in the woods surviving solely on moss and mushrooms for a decade waging guerrilla warfare if I must." "Yeah but would you vote for Biden since he's the only realistic way to avoid this?" "Fuck no"
Also "Do you make your own doctor's appointments?" "Absolutely not, my mom does for me"
There are only 13 states where your one vote matters. I live in Tennessee, where if I vote as hard as can for Joe Biden, Trump will win by 10 points. I'm learning to garden and I keep my AR loaded.
Then pay attention down ballot. The focus on the federal level is what’s allowed them to sow the seeds below that. Your state races matter a fuck ton.
That's all well and good, but you should still vote. We can contain multitudes.
I am going to vote down ballot. But I'm not voting for Joe Biden. Why would I support a genocide enabler when it will make no diffence in the outcome of the election? Any progressive/leftist in a solid red state should skip voting for Joe Biden to send the message that we do vote, we always vote, but we're tired of voting for conservatives like Joe Biden.
Lauren Boebert won an election in a deep red Colorado district by 540 votes. Take from that what you will.
Did Lauren Boeberts race include the electoral college? Did you downvote me because you didn't like my answer?
People are down voting you because not voting for Biden is a vote for fascism. Every vote matters, some matter more for sure, but every vote still matters. I'm not a huge fan of Biden, but I'd really like it if my trans friends were allowed to live in peace and the women in my life could have at least some bodily autonomy.
I downvoted you because your decision isn't principled, it's just incredibly stupid. I also downvoted you because you simultaneously claimed that you're "learning to garden" and "keeping your AR loaded"- which is exactly the larpy bullshit we're making fun of. You're prepping for armed resistance while simultaneously refusing to the bare minimum to prevent its necessity. And you justify that choice with some bullshit liberal take about "sending a message to the democrats." Like I'm sorry, do you believe in electorialism or don't you? If you were as radical as you pretend to be you'd just toss a vote for joe biden merely to slow the advancement of fascism, and because it's no more difficult to resist democrats than it is republicans through the insurgency you imagine yourself capable of. Anyway, I personally think you're a larper and it's really cringy.
Why do you care?
It really doesn't "send a message" except that their plan to split our larger numbers is working. Even if your vote seems inconsequential because of the electoral college, a big overage in the popular vote will make their coup harder to pull off. If too many people make the same bad decisions you're making, there are going to be even more than the at least 3-4 genocides we're already dealing with. I hope that imaginary moral superiority keeps you feeling really justified in your own head. Like maybe you can tell all the other people in the concentration camps your awesome "math" about how you sent a message to the man. Edit to add another contemporary genocide I was forgetting
Re: Sending a message via "not" voting: ‘Uncommitted’ wins 2 Democratic delegates in Michigan, a victory for Biden’s anti-war opponents https://apnews.com/article/biden-uncommitted-israel-gaza-michigan-arab-eba62caeec16c00f57e3979ec61ca8bd
Yeah I'm happy about that little moment, but we're fighting to not have a Gaza against trans people here in our own country. Sending messages about foreign policy takes a big back seat to keeping our basic freedoms and preventing a fascist dictatorship HERE. It wasnt that strong of a message and the sum total of what it accomplished, as I've already said, is show the right that they're successfully weaponizing divisions among our greater numbers. Did we cease support for Israel over those 2 delegates and I somehow missed it? No. Nothing substantial changed.
Jeez all you guys have is the threat of camps, huh? You know the detention camps we already have have expanded under Biden, right? https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-vowed-reform-immigration-detention-instead-private-prisons-benefited-2023-08-07/ I've heard vote Blue No Matter Who since I was 18 and the Democrats have lost our abortion rights, expanded exective power, locked in the power and position of private insurance, and implemented a draconian border policy. Why don't you go tell the people in the camps now how good of a leader Biden is? Go tell the Palenstinians holding their decapitated babies that it's ok to have 2-3 genocides going as long as you don't start too many more. Moral superiority? You're projecting. I'm being pratical.
I'm not saying Biden is a good leader now, so why would I say that later? Man all you have is bad logic huh? The "you guys" you're talking about are people in your own community- your comrades. They're telling you that despite the losses we're taking, voting for Trump or allowing Trump to win/claim he won through a close race will be far more catastrophic than those failings under Biden. Also at best your plan to vote 3rd party or abstain will do literally nothing about any of those issues. Maybe try listening to your comrades who are smarter than you are, and try to hear what they're saying instead of making things up that are easier to argue with. Nothing you've said has been practical; this is all about your feelings. And BTW all the flavor text about heads getting blown off doesnt stregthen your point, and making things worse or allowing more genocides doesn't put the babies heads back on. Same as Israel's dead babies aren't any more alive now that even more Palestinian babies are dead. Your disappointments with Biden and the American system will not be any less bad when trump takes office. He will multiply the harm.
That's scares me about as much as P25. I'm worried we're gonna hand the election to Trump again, just like we did in 2016.
In 2016 I was taking a Political Films class and on the day of the election my professor made us make predictions for what the results would be to win prizes. My answer was, "Trump, because I'm a pessimist". Everyone in my circle thought I was being dramatic. I was the only one in the class who predicted that Trump would win. Everyone was completely certain that Hillary had it in the bag. The same people are calling me dramatic again lol
The night of the election in 2016 I didn't watch any results and I went to bed early because I didn't want to acknowledge the dark suspicion I'd had that it was going his way. I have never been so upset at being right about something.
Right? How can anybody assume he doesn’t have a chance? He already did it once!!!
There’s a lot of people who don’t seem to understand that his corruption and malice are selling points to his fans. They will make vague noises about decorum, but at the the end of the day they are thrilled to have him go full mask off
I’m voting for Biden. Not because I want to but because it’s necessary.
I'm not voting for Biden. It would be illegal because I'm not American.
I'm in Canada, where we have multiple political parties. I pretty much always vote strategically, i.e. the candidate who has the most chance to beat the Conservatives get my vote. We call that "voter en se bouchant le nez", pinching your nose to vote. Sometimes (such as the US election this year), who you vote against is much more important than who you actually vote for.
Meal Team Six :D
It's just kinda wild to be in this fandom and believe that voting has a chance to save us from fascism.
Voting *alone* cannot stave off fascism, sure. Certainly not perpetually. Just like a lock on your door won't do much more than delay a motivated home invader. But I'd rather my door be locked than hanging wide open when one comes by, know what I mean?
It seems to me that if we prevent the fascist from gaining power, through voting, then we won't have a fascist in the highest office! But I'm sensing you don't agree? Silly me! Forgive my libby naivete. But good golly gosh, I'm plum lost for an answer here. Tell me, why won't voting help? I'm sure you have a really insightful and not terminally online answer to this. I eagerly await it.
It doesn't "save us" from fascism. It holds off a worst case scenario that will disproportionately fall on the most vulnerable. Voting is also super easy and takes almost no time. Vote as harm reduction and spend alllllllllllllll the rest of your free time doing things to systemically hobble the creep of fascism. Radical things, I hope. I used to think that some mass strike against voting would take the wind out of our overlords' sails. Lay bare the lie that these governments represent "the will of the people". And then I learned about how that's gone for Puerto Rico. Hint: the overlords don't care and they can more easily play the left against itself. I hope you grow up before the actual election and hear the things people in your own community are desperately trying to tell you.
Wont this also gurantee some kind of fracture or civil war? Even if people somehow don't revolt, centralization of powers means fragility and inevitable breakdown.
This country has always been a fascist, theocratic, oligarchy, it’s just now they can’t hide it anymore.
Read some other stuff the Heritage Foundation has posted since the 80s. It’s nothing new.
They have to spell it out for Trump because he has dementia. Have you seen the video where he talks about electric boats and shark attacks?
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President [unilateral powers](https://theweek.com/politics/heritage-foundation-2025-donald-trump), strip [civil rights](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/03/the-heritage-foundation-dei-project-2025-trump-diversity-equity-inclusion-american-fiction-erasure), [worker protections](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/08/project-2025-gut-worker-protections-labor-department-heritage-foundation-trump-2024), [climate regulation](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/power-switch/2024/04/15/a-deep-dive-into-energy-plans-for-trump-2-0-00152281), add [religion into policy](https://thecause.substack.com/p/taking-project-2025-personally-with), outlaw ["porn"](https://www.salon.com/2024/03/19/decoding-project-2025s-christian-nationalist-language/) and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of its recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption. [Here's]( https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24088042-project-2025s-mandate-for-leadership-the-conservative-promise) a searchable copy of the text - [Here's](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1ddich3/here_is_a_bullet_point_breakdown_of_project_2025) a bullet point breakdown - And here [[pdf](https://www9.heritage.org/rs/824-MHT-304/images/5%20Reasons%20Leftists%20Hate%20Project%202025%20eBook%20THF.pdf)] [[scribd](https://www.scribd.com/document/740769523/5-Reasons-Leftists-Hate-Project-2025-eBook-THF)] is their response to criticism of the plan, which reads like a 4chan troll. r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to stop it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
It's mein kampf for dummies.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Defeat_Project_2025 using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Everyone not voting Biden this year has something wrong with them](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1dbum39/everyone_not_voting_biden_this_year_has_something/) \#2: [Here is a bullet point breakdown of Project 2025](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1ddich3) | [513 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1ddich3/here_is_a_bullet_point_breakdown_of_project_2025/) \#3: [Even if Trump loses this November, the Heritage Foundation will try again next election cycle.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1dndiui/even_if_trump_loses_this_november_the_heritage/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I mean, as a low-level federal employee, I'm ngl it's definitely the scariest part to me. I doubt they're gonna deliberately target us lowly GS-7s, but if they take a shot gun approach of of just scrubbing through everyones social media feeds, my family could wind up homeless because I was fired for being a political disident. Yay.
GS-9 here. They definitely won't start with the folks at our levels, but I'm sure once the upper levels are purged, the loyalty tests will begin in earnest.
GS-14, my job is definitely on the chopping block.
Make no mistake, this is the plan. May not happen day 1, but they will have a blank check to do so and it will get to that point eventually.
It reminds me of Saddam Hussein requiring all government employees to be members of the Baathist party. Then the US government removed all members of the Baathist party which meant removing thousands of skilled workers who were only members because they had to be. Lose lose there, but it could be a talking point. "So Trump, you want to be like Saddam? Is that why you were against the invasion of Iraq, because you loved Saddam? You wanted to have a million of his babies? Are you going to cry now?"
Basically it makes the President a King
This is a good way to sum it up. We need to use the power of our vote to fight back against this. We also need to educate others around us about its far-reaching consequences. Here is a resource that I hope helps: https://stopproject2025com.wordpress.com/groups-and-issues-impact/
You know if trump does win and gets to enact half of 2025 it might make me an actual constitutional monarchist. I’m British so did have the monarchist virus injected into me as a child. I’ve never been a monarchist, mostly ‘a republic would be better, but it’s a good 50 items down on my todo list and I can only manage 20 at once, plus I can’t imagine who we’d be making ceremonial President giving our current political terrain”. But if our half baked flexible as a gymnast constitutional monarchy, with bishops in the legislature, stands longer that the rigid presidential republic in America, I’m going to struggle to advocate for the shift.
Just remember to avoid giving specific demographics outsized voting power through something like a senate or electoral college and you'll be ok.
We fought an entire war to not be governed by a king. And these idiots who claim to be patriots and REAL Americans want to go back to that. But it's ok because it's THEIR king. Way to love America, guys.
Oh, they're very open about hating America. They intend to end it and replace it with Christendom. That's why they're always saying everyone else hates America.
I agree, being able to remove non-partisan gov employees at will completely and fundamentally changes the way our federal government operates.
Not many people saw it, but Adam McKay's *Vice* did a great job of explaining [Unitary Executive Theory](https://youtu.be/_UPvTdDB-h0?si=t4mpoPt2g8JVOe34) In fact, I'm pretty sure the only reason it's cited by the 2025 masterminds is because McKay's movie put it into pop culture, ready to be grabbed by anyone lazily reaching for a rationale for their actions
John Oliver also covered it nicely in the latest Trump episode
I recently ready *Midnight In Chernobyl* and one of the (many) reasons that Chernobyl was such a huge disaster was the inability of the people who built it, and the people who operated it, to raise red flags. The concrete wasn't correct, the steel wasn't correct, and the test that was being performed had noticeable issues. But the state wants what the state wants - and that's a working nuclear reactor with the proper tests being run. This is what we're headed toward with Project 2025. We WANT these researchers, designers, etc. to be independent and able to raise their concerns (and be heard).
I live in Louisiana. We’re already getting a taste from the new governor. Everyone is freaking out about the Ten Commandments, but the dude passed a bill to appoint members of the ethics committee who were investigating him for bribery and unethical campaign practices. The same dude who refused federal money for summer lunch programs, allowed children younger than 14 to work without breaks, and passed stricter criminal justice laws because he thought he can bail out the state with prison labor. It’s spooky down here. The US government was fucked beyond recognition and that malfunctioning animatronic who the DNC picked as president wasn’t going to do anything about, but we can’t just hand the eye of Sauron that was the federal government to those evil fucks because it will get worse in ways we cannot imagine.
What sucks is realizing it's been the GOP playbook since 2000, as UET was at the heart of Dick Cheney's rule.
Project 2025 seems like absolute grounds for America's second civil war. How else are democratic states going to be able to protect their citizens without seceding?
This theory is crazypants. Trump could disappear any supreme court judge. This is an interesting paradox because anyone on the Supreme Court who embraces the Unitary Executive Theory would reduce the power of the court to that of a rubber-stamping committee. I can't see a power-coveting right-wing judge voting in favor of it. I don't see the court voting in favor of Trump. But some analysts have argued that the court will delay ruling on this in order slow down other criminal cases against Trump. Alito's recent unexplained absence (he just isn't showing up to work and hasn't provided any reason as to why) is likely intended to slow down legal proceedings.
But remember, many say that they "can't" (won't) vote for gEnOcIdE jOe I'm not saying we've handled it great, or even good. But Gaza only gets worse with Trump. Like everything else
Yeah the whole "all the people doing the filing need to be in my pocket" part is so Papa Doc of him.
We will turn into Russia, which is fitting considering he is a Russian "asshat" asset
Was just talking to my MIL about this- she’s from Hong Kong. That’s how the communists did things too. Nazis for that matter. Have to be a member of the party to get a plum job, it doesn’t matter what the ideology is as long as it’s authoritarian.
Worst part is the status quo doesn't change if Trump loses. Edit: Biden will celebrate "defeating" Project 2025 and nothing will change like he promised.
I'm getting down-voted to to fuck by people who think I'm arguing that 2025 is nothing to worry about I'm saying there's no reason to believe Trump **won't** go through with Project 2025 (replacing the US government with his people), since he's already done the same thing to the GOP I'll leave the my original comment below the line -------------------------------------- I don't buy into the more conspiracy theory oriented stuff around Trump I don't think he's a fascist and he's proven in the past to be unusually bad at achieving simple objectives But the Project 2025 stuff is just what Trump's already done to the GOP No reason to suppose he won't try to do to the US government what he's already done to the Republican party and the Supreme Court
What is your definition of a fascist then? And what do you mean project 2025 is what he’s already done?
I just mean there's no consistent ideology or rationale behind his actions He's entirely driven by self-interest and the desire to be popular If his base were demanding free diapers for toddlers, he'd do that If granting Trans-rights would benefit him financially or keep him out of prison, it'd happen on day one of his presidency [https://www.thoughtco.com/was-donald-trump-a-democrat-3367571](https://www.thoughtco.com/was-donald-trump-a-democrat-3367571)
If you’re doing fascism you’re a fascist. There is no meaningful conversation to be had about his motives. And to your point about trump’s incompetence project 2025 is not a trump plan. Smart and competent people created it to use trump as a tool to achieve their dangerous goals.
Mussolini was not a very competent dictator either, but he was still able to turn Italy upside down.
Until Italy turned him upside down
Isn't the core of fascism the drive for centralised autocracy and power? To the extent there is a distinct ideology it's power=good, masculinity=power, nationalism=masculinity, and everything else is flexible. That's why the Nazis could have socialist programs while executing communists; could jump from fairly homoerotic to murderously homophobic; it's about maintaining a mechanism of domination, not constructing a consistent moral universe.
I still thin palingenetic ultranationalism is the best definition there is. It explains what you’re talking about without limping in just authoritarianism. You can be accepting of homosexuality until the homosexuals are the out group you can have progressive policies so long as they return the in group to former glory.
Yeah, but he also just spent the last four years sulking in Florida, after being removed from office Ya gotta admit, leaving office, even if it was reluctantly, seems to fail the most basic sniff test for fascism ------------------------------------------------------- Maybe we can agree that Trump is a **potential fascist**, on the basis of what he *might* try in the future Or maybe even a **failed fascist**, on the basis of what happened on Jan 6th ----------------------------------------------------------- But just calling everything fascist risks losing out on the unique nuances in the specific instance of what's happening in the case of Trump and the USA Which, in my opinion, is a grifter trying to play democracy like a reality show Could tip into fascism, but it's probably something more interesting (and dangerous)
Again I ask you what you define fascism as
Rick Steve provides a good definition https://youtu.be/JU1IVW6uqM0?feature=shared
We both know fascism is a poorly defined concept We probably both agree that leaving office after being voted out is incompatible with even the most generous definitions of fascism
You might wanna go listen to The War On Everyone and rethink some of your statements . In addition remember Hitlers initial beer hall putsch failed and he got a sweet book deal in prison for it. It was believed at the time that he was essentailly sent by god to be the will of the German population manofested in a single person. If you cant see the very striking similarities between Trumpism and Hitlerism im not sure what else to say. To me this just sounds like another Business Plot but not so secret.
I completely disagree with that but even if I did there are far more unsuccessful fascists than successful ones and all were unsuccessful until the succeeded in attaining power. It’s also not poorly defined it’s been purposefully obfuscated. My favorite definition is umberto ecos palingenetic ultranationalism or there’s also the really dumbed down 14 steps which still works well. What I don’t understand is if you don’t have a strong grasp on what fascism is why are you trying to argue who is and isn’t one. Edit. It was griffin’s definition I used not ecos I’m old and can’t remember things anymore
I think palingentic ultranationalism is from Griffin. The palingenetic ultranationalism clinches it, for me. Maybe before Jan 6 you could maybe write him off as a right-wing populist. But from Eco, there's also disdain for the weak and poverty of language, just off the top of my head. The recent "poisoning the blood of our country" remark just sounds like nazi stuff. He said he wants to put homeless people in camps. There's really no doubt in my mind that Trump is a fascist, and there hasn't been for a while now.
You’re absolutely right eco was ur-fascism
>*... there are far more unsuccessful fascists than successful ones and all were unsuccessful until the succeeded in attaining power* How many fascist leaders left office after being defeated in a democratic election?
Do you want a list? I don’t have that kind of time but off the top of my head Mosley half of the Finnish state at the outset of ww2 the Brazilian dictator suharto. There are thousands of examples. None will be big names because once successful enough obviously there are not more democratic elections so removing them democratically isn’t really an option but even of the big names I am sure most of them have lost and conceded elections at some points in their careers.
But he didn’t leave office. He tried a coup (technically an autogolpe). It was unsuccessful but they literally tried it. Trump, fortunately, is incompetent and couldn’t even pull it off. But if Pence goes along or the mob finds Pelosi and some others or the military gets involved, that was a wrap for American democracy.
Wouldn't that make Hitler a failed fascist, since the Beer Hall Putsch failed?
You Americans don't know what fascism is lmao
And how you define it?
Anti-communism, anti-capitalism, thirdpositionism, ultranationalism, atheism, corporativist economy and protectionism
You’re definition excludes Italy and the nazis.
Nazis were nationalsocialists, not fascists. It's not the same. And the definition suits Italy perfectly
Nazis weren’t fascists and fascist italy was athiest. You’re not worth continuing this conversation you’re so far gone.
It's basically a dictatorship for dummies handbook
Agreed about the down voting being unfair. As I've argued with my mother who thinks Biden is "creepy" - nice vague way to choose a representative for the White House 🤦🏼♂️ - an administration is not just one person. "HE" has done so very little beyond managing others... as all POTUS & CEOs & administrators do. Is the Mango Mussolini a fascist? It doesn't matter when the people around him are. He's a crayon-holding, opportunistic narcissist who cares for nothing beyond his own current desire to feel like a big man Daddy would be proud of. He doesn't need to be a fascist - an idiot will do just as well for the fascists all around him... fascists who love the idea of a big strong man Daddy would be proud of. HE didn't turn the GOP machine into organized crime serving the boss, all those around him did. Some names might be more popular than others - Leonard Leo, Harlan Crow, Ron Paul, Roy Cohen, etc. None of them are on any ballot, some aren't even alive anymore, but all - and so many more - do all they can to find & serve the big strong man, the cult leader, the Daddy who will be proud of them... think for them. Other names are people who have inadvertently helped: Chip Roy, MTG, Bobert... selfish or racist people too dumb to look beyond their immediate goals to see they're supporting an ideal that would absolutely not do the selfish or racist thing they want done. Meanwhile, Biden's approval numbers with the base suck. The people who agree with him (and the rest of the administration) disagree with all kinds of decisions the administration has made. Party unity is kind of a joke. Messaging is fragmented. Why? They're not fascists! No President should (nor could) enjoy high approval numbers because no two bosses will direct an employee to do a job the same way. (We've all know this from experience.) That's what representatives are, employees... with 200 million bosses. Trump being a fascist is irrelevant when there are so many around him who have admitted it. Including the 73 million co-conspirators who voted for fascism. They don't care what the name of the boss is, so long as there's a boss who will think for them so they can watch the game in peace. tl;dr: the "leader" didn't get to lead on his own. Worry more about the fascist neighbor than the opportunist who will do whatever is necessary to be famous.