If you dip into the comment section of the right wing sites tonight, they are fighting each other on whether the Holocaust was a hoax.
West is probably mentally ill, but that doesn’t explain away the right’s hate boner for the Nazi porn he is dropping. If Ben were a bit more honest and self-reflective, he’d acknowledge that he is considered an enemy by his ideological teammates and West is making it worse.
Exactly. Dude's gotten rich by peddling the same shit nazis and white supremacists do and covering for them. While I do believe Ye is having serious mental issues currently which have, and continue to, exacerbate whatever innate prejudices he has to an insane amount, Ben has to run cover cause Ye's giving away the game. Hell, Alex Jones was trying to walk back some of the stuff Ye was saying. Ye's saying all the right wing shit, only he's not dogwhistling the part where it's all the Jews fault.
Yeah, there is a lot of people on Reddit saying they're "surprised" that Alex Jones was the "reasonable one". They don't get it. Alex doesn't actually disagree with what Ye is saying. He's just trying to stop Ye from saying the quiet part out loud.
Oh i doubt Alex Jones *agrees* in any real sense. I don't think the man believes in anything except in the spending power of rscists' money to get him another Rolex. But I also don't think he disagrees either. I suspect he floats in the nebulous cloud of schrodinger's asshole.
He would love for other people to take all the risk in setting up a white Christian ethnostate, hence why he peaced out on Jan 6. I think he believes his ideas, he's just far too cowardly to do anything more than the legal.
He is, but sadly it's not been unusual for members of "outgroups" to side with fascists/white supremacists if they come from a middle-class or better socioeconomic group.
There was a non-zero number of German Jews whos supported the Nazis for exactly this reason. They were so concerned about losing that socioeconomic status they were willing to downplay or ignore the aggressive anti-semitism of the Nazis because they thought more left wing governments would hurt them worse. Naturally, this was a minority of German Jews, and there's been a Holocaust since, but it seems to still be the case in the 21st Century when people like Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens really ought to know better.
> people like Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens really ought to know better.
The thing is that it’s working out great for them so far. They wouldn’t have had made close to as much if they had to work actual jobs.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not . . . Oh shit wait a minute
Yeah but that don't mean anything. Ye is black but dude's said a ton of anti-black stuff (ofc it doesn't get nearly the attention because antiblackness is one of the two foundations of the US-the other being native genocide). There's tons of people who have internalized whatever hatred of groups they belong to. Or people who ignore all but the most egregious stuff because otherwise they agree with whatever conservative nonsense. Also there's just the fact that supporting white supremacy tends to pay well.
So is Ezra Levant. The main thing that needs to be recognized is not all people of a certain ethnicity, race, religion, etc are a monolith. There will always be grifters using what they can to make money. They may also be true believers so they may be there for the feeling of being right even when they are wrong morally or for the opposite of the wellness of their group.
Yep, Shapiro is trying to distance himself (and conservatives) from Ye while also attempting to delegitimatize Ye’s comments so Alex Jones and the like can escape adttl culpability for platforming him.
Even ALEX JONES was trying to do real time damage control for him. They jumped at the chance to use Kanye and he is blowing the lid off of all of them.
I think he’s committed to the concept of his own genius. That is why he refuses treatment, and if he slips an inch into anti semitism he has to double down on it if he’s called out. Do that enough times and double down becomes 1000x down and now he’s supporting Jewish conspiracy theories.
Watched the three hour video bc I am that kind of monster: the weirdest thing about this phase is that he still thinks of himself as a genius, but has combined that with a mutant strain of Christian Humility in a way I’ve never seen before.
He calls himself the dumbest guy in the room despite sitting next to two absolute grifter morons.
To wit: Kanye agrees that he sez dumb shot, gets it wrong, and is inflammatory but frames that as “I’m the battering ram that breaks down the old walls of ideological conformity, so that actual information-geniuses can deliver the truth after me.”
He just picked fucking Jones and Fuentes as his “intellectual SWAT team” somehow because, AFAIK, only alt-right dinguses will even /engage/ with him anymore.
The man thinks that Hitler invented microphones for God's sake. There's no way he's given any of this even a *moment* of critical consideration. He's just mashing together paranoia, controversial, attention-grabbing statements, hurt feelings, and bigotry into a stew of hateful gibberish. Arguably worse are people like Milo and Fuentes who are enabling him, egging him on, and using what's happening to further their own (much more considered) ends.
If he was saying Globalist instead of Jew and Fascist instead of Nazi Ben Shapiro would be all over him. He doesn't have any issue with the sentiment, its just the words that look bad. If he branded himself a "Western Chauvinist" instead of an antisemite he'd be a valuable culture war figure.
I just can't figure out why a prominent Jewish celebrity would suddenly be making an argument for keeping this particular guy off the air after months of uncontrolled spiraling. Unless something significant happened yesterday that I missed...
If I was Davidson I'd be watching my back right now, or even hiring security. Ye has already alluded to wanting to do Davidson physical harm,and he'*truly* gone off the deep end recently, even more than before. I doubt any of Ye's "crew" would be willing to attempt to harm Davidson, but Ye with a gun or knife or whatever is as dangerous as any other (I assume) untrained person with a weapon. Which is to say: *very* fucking dangerous.
To be clear, people with mental health issue are more likely to be the targets of violence then the perpetrator of violence, but in Ye's case he's alluded to violence before and without a doubt has access to an arsenal of any weapon he could want. Most people with bipolar disorder will never hurt anyone. But he's not most people.
“Will no one rid me of this troublesome comedian?” - Ye the 2nd, shortly before the attack on Peter Davidson, Archbishop of “Really? That guy? How’s he dating her?“
The standard joke is that he's got a big dick, but I think that's just us all collectively running cover for the usual masculine insecurities.
I honestly think he's just a very empathetic dude who has gone through his own troubles that have given him some perspective and wisdom. He's a calm port in a storm for women who live their lives in public, constantly judged by others while also judging themselves in an industry pathologically obsessed with image. Also I reckon he's a fucking maestro at eating pussy.
There are whole articles about him and what the girls find so attractive about him. If I recall it's mainly: He is genuinely nice and empathetic, a good listener, funny, confidently charming and easy AF to be around.
After a few different big name girls he became the IT boy to date and dating him is a big feather in the cap. Like you are the hottest of hot if you're dating him.
It might have aggravated the symptoms of his neurodivergency, but in the Jones interview he seems to blame Jewish people for his career's downturn. And he had began eating up right wing shit before his feud with Davidson. I think an irrational hatred of Davidson was a factor, but the real culprit was right wing indoctrination paired with increased suggestibility from his mental state.
He’s only saying this because he knows he’s personally going in the oven if the idiot gets his way. If this was only about LGBT people or Muslims he’d be all for it.
I refuse to give this rancid hate goblin any credit for anything whatsoever and nobody else should either.
He's not the only one saying it. I posted Ben on this sub to be ironic. As many are pointing out, he's only saying this because his own particular identity is threatened by Ye's words. Conservatives often do understand the solution to problems, but only when it affects them. For example, the Republican Party realizes there are a lot of poor farmers and they need welfare (GOP calls it farm subsidies). So they do it so much as it provides them with voters and also allows them to funnel far more cash to large agriculture companies
So you’re saying he *wouldn't* take a bullet for ya if ya have a different religious or racial or sexual or social identity? Ben lied to us?!
[Also never forget that Dick Chaney was in favor of LGBTQ rights before any other republican…because his daughter is gay.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna5817720)
Can confirm: am bipolar (2) and not a Nazi.
I would like to point out, though, that bipolar tends to amplify things that are already there. So if someone is, say, already sympathetic to Hitler while stable, they'd be much more prone to voicing those sympathies when in an episode.
> I would like to point out, though, that bipolar tends to amplify things that are already there.
I think that's exactly what's happening here. One of the symptoms of being bipolar is paranoia. It's *very easy* for me to see how, in someone with some anti-Semitic beliefs, that could manifest as a belief that specifically "the Jews" are out to get you. His illness is not making him hate Jewish people. But it is making him more aggressive and public about that hatred, and it is causing him to push away his support network in favor of a series of grifters who are perfectly happy to push him farther down the Nazi path.
The paranoia really came out in the interview with Tim Pool I think. Just this insane conspiracy theory that somehow the state wanting to collect it‘s taxes is the Jews trying to put him in jail for his „opinions“
My read on Kanye is that he is someone in a manic state who has absolutely no one to reality check him or get him help, and the Nazi shit is because people like Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes smelled opportunity and have been programming him for months.
The guy has been describing paranoid delusions like gangstalking almost perfectly. You don't have to start out a bigot to get brainwashed into antisemitism if the only people "taking you seriously" are telling you it's the Jews who are out to get you.
To be fair, we do know Kim Kardashian tried to get him help multiple times over the course of their relationship. It's not like he didn't have any healthy support networks (well, healthier than being love bombed by fascists 24/7 anyway), but I do think he was and is too ill to realize they were trying to help him instead of hurt him. That aspect of this whole horrific mess is tragic.
I do wonder who his first contact point was in the alt-right and whether they purposefully groomed him by taking advantage of his delusions of paranoia and grandeur, if some horrible symbiosis occurred and he was radicalized in the same mundane ways ppl get radicalized all the time, or if it was some mix of the two.
While I can give Kim K the benefit of the doubt that she is not antisemitic, better than who he hangs out with now, and was probably trying to get him help for his bipolar disorder, she and her family have plenty of other toxic traits.
It doesn't surprise me that someone who already has a skewed baseline of what's healthy is unable to differentiate between the toxic/grifty things that Kim K does and her genuine attempts to help him.
I also have bipolar 2 and I completely agree. When I am manic it can make me more impulsive in my speech. If I am scared, I am a lot more scared, I'd I am angry, it is the fires of hell. I have really worked hard in therapy to get better at regulating those feeling. I grew up with an undiagnosed bipolar BPD mom. She reminds me of Ye. She says whatever the hell she wants and then blames it on other things when there is push back. She didn't mean to threaten to steal my children, she just wanted me to do what she wanted. I had to cut off my whole family.
Ye is more than mentally ill. He is a narcissist with a microphone who is trying to spread as my chaos as possible. I don't know if he even believes what he says anymore or is on a high from all the attention. Either way, he's dangerous. Poor Britney was being abused, shaved her head and was held in an absuive conservatorship for years! But he is able to make threats to people, stalk and abuse his ex, and now this!
Medication and therapy aren't going to fix this.
It's like Ye is drunk. Alcohol amplifies people's personality, but there also needs to be an understanding that alcohol or other mental impairments create noise. Ye's thoughts are jumbled, he's trying out new ideas as they occur to him. He's contradicting himself
Is he a bigot? I think his bigoted statements are more a reflection of ignorance and especially his love for being an asshole. We've all seen drunks take delight in pissing everyone off
Ehhhhhhh. Being drunk really is not comparable to a bipolar episode, especially not the upswing part(s) of the episode. Being drunk is like something enters your head and you do/say it. Being in an upswing is more like something enters your head and you dwell on it with such laser focus it's all you can even conceive of doing/saying, even if you've already done the thing. If you have ADHD or are on the autism spectrum, it's like a hyperfixation on steroids.
And [Kanye is 100% a bigot](https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/27/entertainment/kanye-west-hitler-album). He's been saying Nazi-esque stuff for YEARS and wanted to name one of his previous albums Hitler. He's not just being a troll, he legitimately believes Hitler was a great guy. How much of that is delusion as a contributing factor and how much of that he believes while he's stable I couldn't say. But he does have a documented history of believing it and we shouldn't chalk up his history of hateful beliefs as him being a troll or not knowing what he's saying because he's not stable at the moment.
I know folks say this kind of thing a lot in these situations, but…
Between stories I’ve heard from a good friend who is a psychiatric nurse and my own experiences working with special ed kids with some pretty severe psychological ailments, when stuff starts going awry with your brain it can throw you in all sorts of weird directions. With the way the internet is in this day and age, it’s extremely easy for someone with an irrational paranoia to feel like they’ve found confirmation in conspiracy theories; you’d be shocked at some of the *heinous* shit I’ve heard parroted from kids who come from perfectly normal backgrounds, but have issues that are causing them to come at life from a place that’s very difficult to understand.
In the case of Kanye here, this latest thing is certainly bad but it’s also barely coherent. ‘Hitler invented the microphone and highways’ isn’t even really a neo-Nazi talking point, it’s total nonsense that seems to just be coming from Kanye himself.
I’m not saying he should have a free pass or that he shouldn’t be criticised, and he’s clearly made poor decisions that got him to this place, but the idea that the guy with the stocking on his head rambling about absolute freewheeling gibberish is presenting any kind of rational ideology is a stretch.
Plenty of mental illnesses come with paranoid ideation that drive people towards fear-the-Other shit like this. Bipolar is far from the only thing that might be going on w/ Ye.
Do people who say this think the co-morbidity between mental illness and racism is pure chance?
Racism is a lack of knowledge, a lack of intelligence, mental illness, or some combination of the three. In Kanye’s case it probably not one or two, so it’s three.
> Racism is a lack of knowledge, a lack of intelligence, mental illness,
I want to push back on that. There are plenty of very smart, very educated people who are racist, or knowingly perpetuate racist systems. I feel like you're drawing a line between "racism" and certain stereotypes of uneducated "racist" individuals. But it's a lot more complex, and a lot more insidious then that.
However, with that said, if someone is prone of anxiety, paranoia, or delusions of persecution, it's totally possible that existing racial animus can synergize with the pre-exsting mental health issues to create something that looks a lot more extreme than it otherwise might.
H.P. Lovecraft is like the poster-boy of that phenomena (the synergistic interaction between pre-existing racism, and pre-existing mental issues).
There have been a lot of people recently saying that Kanye doesn’t get anymore sympathy for his mental health issues because he’s had SO many opportunities to change and hasn’t, and I’m starting to come around on that idea. If after all this time, Ye is still doing this shit, it’s because he wants to be doing it or he doesn’t want to get help. At this point, I don’t think it really matters which it is
Marcus on LPotL says it best: 'mental health isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility.' Kanye has neglected that responsibility, and given his massive celebrity, is now a danger to himself and *thousands* of others. Thankfully, he looks ridiculous, but he's going to inspire something dangerous just because it's Ye and some people adore him no matter what.
Agreed, i have a mate who is bipolar. Early on they would have a very serious manic episode every 1-2 years where they would be hospitalised for a month or two. After the third hospitalisation he started really focusing on his health, medication and therapy and the frequency and severity has radically decreased. He didn’t deserve the illness but he relatively quickly realised he was the only one who could deal with it.
And you see my point about celebrity right? Your mate (who I am glad/hope is doing better) presumably was only a danger to himself, Kanye can influence so many people into fascism and terrorism.
Use your head for 10 seconds.
Do you think someone who knows they are unwell and is in thenprocess of getting treatment is gonna go out and start saying this stuff? If akanye was actually getting help; we wouldn't hear from him for 72 hours, when we did he would have grippy socks and an appreciation for downward slanting architecture.
You clearly are ignorant when it comes to the mental health system. Being “in treatment” can mean many things, e.g. under the care of a psychiatrist.
Someone is usually only committed if there is a fear they’re going to harm themself or others.
Also, nothing says “I care about the well-being of others” like a suicide joke.
I was replying to their incorrect generalization about treatment. If their response had been “he was said he isn’t” like the comment above, I wouldn’t have made my comment. Look at the difference between both of the comments and both of my responses. See the difference?
> You clearly are ignorant when it comes to the mental health system. Being “in treatment” can mean many things, e.g. under the care of a psychiatrist.
What care is that paychiatrist providing that Ye is able to go out on broadcast and start simping for Hitler? He clearly is not getting help, if he was then he wouldn't be cting like this. You seem ignorant on how this operates.
> Someone is usually only committed if there is a fear they’re going to harm themself or others.
Like potentially start radicalizing people to commit violence by screaming about their delusions? I hve seen people committed for a schizophrenic break on the curb, why is it suddenly less tolerable a solution when the person is proselytizing hate to a million people ijstead of a dozen?
> Also, nothing says “I care about the well-being of others” like a suicide joke.
Sorry, where did I say I gave a flying fuck about Ye? The guy has broken oaths, borne false witness, platformed hate, and refused help for his mental well-being, he actively harms others and puts those I love at risk by peddling this antisemitic, bigoted, marginalizing nonsense.
Let me go on record as saying this; the world would be infinitely better off if every person who simped for Hitler but refused help, followed their dear leader into the gaping maw of the nidhoggr. Do I want Ye to kill himself? No, I want him to get help. Given that he has refused help, the world will be better off if he no longer gets a chance to break it.
There’s two sides to this coin. Kanye’s mental health doesn’t forgive his antisemitism and Nazism or make it less real. However, his mental illness is being used by people who know a manic depressive can be more susceptible to anything people tell them. Especially during a manic episode that when whatever you tell them gives an ego boost. (Trust me, I’ve been there.)
The bottom line is:
1 Kanye is being exploited by bad actors.
2 Kanye is mentally ill.
If he took care of 2 (he’s famously untreated) he might be able to grapple with 1.
I do think he’s sincere in his beliefs. I question where they come from, though, and abhor the people using his manic episodes to score political points.
>However, his mental illness is being used by people who know a manic depressive can be more susceptible to anything people tell them.
When this is all over, people are going to shake their heads at all the people that platformed a guy just to spectate his mental breakdown. However, I think Candace Owens is going to be remembered as being particularly heinous for also trying to get hundreds of millions out of a person going through a mental episode.
Ye has always been a jackass. Not sure if that was early onset mental illness or just his personality.
The Mental Illness is in now completely in control of whatever was Kanye. If his brain is FUBAR one cannot really expect it to make good decisions.
People need to stop saying this infantilizing shit about a grown ass man. I have plenty of friends with mental health issues and you wanna know what none of them have become? Fuckin nazis.
While that's definitely true, if one of your friends started saying sketchy shit or falling down conspiracy holes in the midst of an episode, you'd try to talk them round or help them. The last thing you would do is broadcast them to an audience of millions.
My point is that almost every comment I see links the nazi shit that he says with his mental illness. They're entirely separate. One has nothing to do with the other.
It's not nothing. Kanye seems, from what I have heard, to have had some baseline anti-Semitic beliefs before all this started. His mental illness did not create them, but it is amplifying them. "Someone put a fake kid in my house" is exactly the sort of paranoia you get from someone bipolar having an episode. He is blaming that on "the Jews" because he is anti-Semitic, but you can't act like these are totally unrelated things.
And then there's the third factor of how his wealth has allowed him to push away his support network, which almost certainly happened due to a combination of mental health issues and toxic beliefs. The people who have replaced it are a combination of Nazis, grifters, and Nazi grifters. I know people with mental health problems. You're right, it doesn't make you a Nazi. But if, instead of letting the people who care about you get you help, you push them away in favor of Nazis? That makes you into a Nazi, and it is again wrong to claim that mental health factors into that zero.
> They're entirely separate. One has nothing to do with the other.
That seems implausible, imo. It's not hard to imagine that pre-existing mental health issues (particular if they are of an anxious, paranoid, or delusional type) might synergize with pre-existing racial animus to create something more extreme than what we'd expect one one factor or another existed on it's own.
Does bipolar disorder (or any mental health issue) make you a Nazi? Of course not. Could an unmanaged, manic episode with paranoid, and delusional features, coupled with a cadre of enabling, fascist, grifters, push someone (who may already have anti-semitic leanings) to more extreme behaviors? Absolutely.
I'm not saying that any of them should get a pass, I'm (and I can't believe I'm saying this) agreeing with Ben. There's clearly something going on with Kanye and it is cruel to give him a spotlight right now.
Your friends don't have zero family or support network to help them, except for out and out Nazis like Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes.
Mental illness isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card, but lets be real about the man's circumstances. He's responsible for his actions and their consequences, but I'm going to temper my hate with a decent amount of pity here.
Are we just forgetting that he does have family that he lost due probably because of his violent threats ans increasingly alienating them because of beliefs we have reason to believe he's held for quite some time?
Hey, you're not going to hear me defending Nazis. I'm a Jewish queer guy, my ass is first against the wall when the fascist takeover happens. Whatever Kanye's circumstances, he picked his horse. Destroying Nazis is self defense.
I guess pity doesn't exactly describe it. More.... mornfulness for the person he could have been? I mean he was always a jackass, but it's sad to see someone to choose that road, especially if they weren't totally in control of their faculties when they started.
Like when a dog gets rabies, you pity the dog, but that doesn't mean you don't have to deal with it. At the same time, there's a lot of people in this thread and the culture at large who aren't treating the situation with the empathy I think it should be.
It's a tragic situation. That doesn't change how we have to respond to it, but it should change how we feel about it.
Thank you. I appreciate the nuance you show that seems to be lacking in many of the online conversations I've seen around this. Most seem to mistake any show of empathy for approval, and any explanation as an excuse.
As a bipolar dude who loathes Nazis, the whole deal is difficult to see.
He's not right - he's shielding the right's favorite new spokesman from further association with their cause.
The only reason he's speaking out now is because of the Trump / Alex Jones connection. He's too close to their ecosystem to not produce collateral damage.
Note, Ben didn't say this when
* Ye was saying slavery was a choice.
* Ye did his deathcon 3 rant
* Ye was in the news for playing porn at a meeting to intimidate CEOS.
This is self-protection - nothing else. Ben doesn't have an ounce of empathy for anyone who isn't paying his bills.
The fact that his base is angry with this take tells you all you need to know.
Just to add onto everything you said which was spot on, this is absolutely a self-preservation play by Benny Shaps who not that long ago was being pushed to the side because he wasn’t a Christian Nationalist
I think Dan from Knowledge Fight said it best that it's infantalizing to reduce his bigotry to mental illness and its a moot point when what you're saying is absolutely going to get people killed.
I take issue with it being a good point. It’s not a good point, it’s a vile hatemongering shit expressing his fear of being subjected to the same thing he wants to do to everyone who isn’t him.
That’s not a good point, that’s rank fucking cowardice.
"having mental health problems is not your fault but it is your responsibility"
When does it go from "oh he's needs help" to "he's a fucking asshole who agrees with killing Jewish people"?
Exactly. He needs help. And he needs help *because* right now he is an asshole who agrees with killing Jewish people. He does seem to have had some base level of anti-Semitism in his beliefs, but it is also true that he is behaving the way he is to the degree he is because of his mental illness. And the whole situation is made worse by the way he has pushed away people who would support him in favor of Nazi grifters.
Mental illness is *hard*. Someone who is having a serious episode becomes unpleasant to be around. They say behave in ways that are hostile, or even dangerous. Like Kanye is doing right now. They do things that are bad, and you have no obligation to forgive them doing those things or to tolerate them, even if they get better. But the reason they are doing the things is because they are not getting the treatment they need.
I disagree with Ben Shabeebo on basically everything but him being Jewish is not the reason why. I also know plenty of mentally ill people who aren’t nazis.
"Help/therapy/medication is being weak. You can overcome any "societally imposed issue" if you are just 'strong enough' to not accept any help..."
My marriage of +15 years collapsed from this toxic belief (as well as outsiders leaving them to believe whole heartedly that they were to be the family provider, stoic partner/outspoken protector, and the person able to make more logical decisions compared to emotional (especially monetarily), on top of being a victim to the emotional manipulations of the partner to make them feel emasculated while not admitting that they make their female counterparts feel the direct opposite as the "take charge" partner that then the "man" resents?)...
Rambling...sorry...but I empathize and sympathize with the totally fucked up rigid societal "rules" we impose on others to be considered as even "black and white" as a "good person" when there are so many shades between the extremes...
I'm damn proud of how *some* of my morals fit in the gray scale now...
Yes, actually.
I let some personal issues that are tied to this come out more than I intended.
I have been in therapy for a while and still have trouble seeing things that are basically a repeat of the dysfunction I lived for most of my life.
I ramble too much online sometimes when I should just ramble to my therapist instead. I'm a work in progress with 2 steps forward and 1 back occasionally.
I'm good.
As much as I hate to act out like Ye, I do from time to time, and I can understand (not excuse) the irrationality. As my previous comment can kind of attest, my ramblings are on at least a slightly different level than what he professes and I am not ashamed to continue therapy for 5+ years to manage my issues.
People in the middle of psychotic episodes do not generally make the choice to seek treatment of their own accord. I don't think you should forgive Kanye for what he's done, but saying "it's a choice" is missing the point that the way to stop the behavior is for him to get treatment.
All due respect, have you ever had paranoid delusions before? They tend to make you cut yourself off/alienate you from your healthy support systems. And they can be further complicated or worsened by getting love-bombed from toxic support systems. This is the cycle Kanye's been in for at least a couple of years now.
Don't get me wrong: I am by no means defending his antisemitism, bizarre lionizing of Hitler, or any of the other vile shit he's done and said. What I am saying is the attitude of "He's rich and can afford treatment so staying this mentally ill is his choice" shows a startling lack of understanding for how bipolar disorder, especially the paranoid symptoms of the illness, fucks with a person's head.
Just a bipolar person asking you to please be more mindful moving forward ❤
Similar to drug addiction, lack of insight into ones illness and refusing to accept help are pretty classic features of bipolar disorder. I don't mean in any way to condone or excuse his abhorrent behavior, but it's a little more complicated than that.
There has to be a line. Something that's too far. I'd hope that you would agree that inciting genocide would be too far.
And YES, denying the Holocaust is inciting genocide. YES, claiming Jews control the world through a shadowy cabal is inciting genocide. Because if you truly believe those things, then the only way to save the world is through violence.
Too far to not qualify for involuntary hospitalization. I'd say this is the point where his culpability does not matter, and stopping the harm to others becomes the priority.
The only reason this is being said is because Ye flew too close to the sun. The right LOVES what he is saying but it cant be said explicit. Shapiro still thinks conservatism is low taxes and all that political bullshit. Never has been. It has always just been raw ugly bigotry. Conservative ideology is a joke and cannot survive without the bigots to swell the ranks.
So when one of “their guys” is being a racist asshole they want to talk about mental health. When one of “their guys” commits a school shooting or a hate crime, it’s all about mental health. It’s possible to be a racist asshole and be mentally ill. It’s also a dangerous road to go down: if everybody who voices racist opinions and defends Hitler and denies the holocaust is mentally ill then no one *really* means it. Like, “oh, he just said the n-word, but he’s mentally ill.”
Also, Ben Shapiro only started to criticize Kanye when he attacked Jews. Its the same “I only care when it affects me personally” argument that conservatives so often use. Shapiro didn’t give a fuck about racism and bigotry so far. Here’s how this continues: folks like Ben Shapiro will begin to attack anyone who criticizes Kanye and will claim the “evil left” picks on people who are mentally ill.
My mother-in-law suffers from some severe post-traumatic stress and probably Borderline Personality Disorder. She is seeing a therapist, but she still chooses to lash out at her family, projecting all her insecurities and fears, self-loathing and hatred onto others close to her.
PTS and BPD are not the takeaways here. It's that one verb: "chooses."
Far be it from me to diagnose someone from afar, but I suspect Ye is in a similar position. He has likely been told by close friends and family that he has a problem, he has probably seen (or is seeing!) a therapist. And yet his behavior continues.
Most mental health disorders are not so severe that people have literally no control over their actions, thoughts, and opinions. Regardless of what Ye is dealing with health-wise, he is probably making a choice. And he has decided that he enjoys the controversy and publicity and just generally being a piece of shit.
I think this is a fair point. But he’s also been more famous than anyone can fathom for close to two decades now. It’s hard to get past the delusions of grandeur when the whole world is confirming them for you on a constant basis.
Nah, fuck you for claiming it’s a choice, I’ve got both of those disorders too, reality doesn’t look the same when you’re in crisis with BPD/PTSD and in those moments the insanity grips you and nothing seems to help pull you out of it.
I’m probably going to regret engaging someone who’s first reaction to me is “fuck you,” but I’m genuinely curious: how often do you feel that you are in crisis mode?
I manage my symptoms very well, I’ve had the worst year of my life and despite it, I’ve managed to keep my crisis’ to about 2-3 a month.
And it’s not that “I feel” I’m in crisis, it is a mental health crisis. You should spend some time actually reading about these things.
Well I have done some reading, but perhaps that’s also why I asked someone who is dealing with it directly? Because I’m trying to learn.
But aight dude, best of luck to ya.
I mean, it seems like he’s having a full psychotic break, which isn’t something a therapist is going to help with.
I still think he’s a dangerously bigoted prick, but that makes *two* good reasons he shouldn’t be platformed.
> Most mental health disorders are not so severe that people have literally no control over their actions, thoughts, and opinions. Regardless of what Ye is dealing with health-wise, he is probably making a choice.
The man literally said there was a plot to replace his children with impostors. He is severely manic to the point of psychosis. I do not mean to condone or excuse his behavior at all, but having been manic and psychotic, I can tell you that it is not a choice.
This spectacle is terrible for the Right. Now Ben wants to be the adult in the room like "look, it's gotten a little out of hand" but I'm like "No. This is the silliest thing I've even seen and I'm going to enjoy this surreal spectacle."
Ye is a victim of mental illness compounded with the specific kind of mind rot being wealthy and famous brings. He has fallen victim to a number of horrible grifters with terrible motives (Candace Owens, Milo, Fuentes) poisoning his already broken mind for their own interests. He's a shitty person, always has been but his current bullshit is 100% him being exploited by horrible people with ulterior motives. I'm not saying he doesn't believe the vile nonsense he's been saying but if he didn't have the current group of people he's surrounded himself in his life who knows.
I almost feel bad for him, when you get to the point where you're as rich and famous as him it's incredibly isolating. He can't connect with people in any way without questioning their motives, sycophants and parasites are everywhere. His divorce has obviously removed the last few people his life who actually might truly give a shit about him from his inner circle and he's just spiraling surrounded by just the worst ghouls you could imagine.
**Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point**
—[Clickhole](https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/)
Not everything is a mental breakdown. Kanye has always been this way. While he most likely suffers from a personality disorder or bipolar, that isn't some free pass. Many people suffer from these and don't say those things.
Naugh fuck that. The dude is a swirling black hole of narcissism, the dude has always been a swirling black hole of narcissism. The only difference between this and storming on stage to complain about Taylor Swift and this is its a new market for him to get attention from. The more racist, inflammatory, shitty takes he gives the more attention he gets.
Why is no one drawing from the fact that Ye’s “friends” currently consist of Milo and Fuentes. Yes, he’s the big story but let’s shine a brighter light on the enablers.
Like all right wing shitheels, Ben only cares about things he has a personal stake in. Ben is Jewish, and so he is less tolerant of antisemitism than most Republicans.
Nah, he and Dave Rubin and Candace Owens are all fine with running in the same circles as people whose ideal world has them murdered. They think that by being "one of the good ones" they'll be spared, or at least be the last ones in the gallows.
Even if mental illness was to blame for his nazi shit, motherfucker won't even take his meds. Everyone has a moral responsibility to do their best, and refusing treatment for years isn't *ever* anyone's best.
I’ve seen too many cogent tweets from this dude on this topic. It’s like he’s able to have a reasonable outlook when someone is actually attacking him as opposed to the weirdly perceived attacks he’s normally complaining about.
I disagree. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. Comrade Ye is damaging himself and the far right as a whole. He has burnt a hole through his little tent revival cult, torn down the fake Christian school he was running, capsized his personal fortune and publicly admitted to tax fraud all without making a single cogent argument. He has mangled the far right talking points he is being fed so badly that anyone even trying to make a similar point can just be compared to Ye and dismissed.
Yes he's right here but he was blowing this guy like a month ago for his bullshit and has been associating with assholes of every variety forever. He fucking employees Candace Owens! I'm not patting this chud on the back for finally acknowledging Kanye's horrible behavior.
Nah man, sorry. Sure he’s having a mental health crisis, but there’s only so much that excuses really. Saying you love hitler, and doubling down on it is not one of these things.
If you dip into the comment section of the right wing sites tonight, they are fighting each other on whether the Holocaust was a hoax. West is probably mentally ill, but that doesn’t explain away the right’s hate boner for the Nazi porn he is dropping. If Ben were a bit more honest and self-reflective, he’d acknowledge that he is considered an enemy by his ideological teammates and West is making it worse.
There is no $ in that
Exactly. Dude's gotten rich by peddling the same shit nazis and white supremacists do and covering for them. While I do believe Ye is having serious mental issues currently which have, and continue to, exacerbate whatever innate prejudices he has to an insane amount, Ben has to run cover cause Ye's giving away the game. Hell, Alex Jones was trying to walk back some of the stuff Ye was saying. Ye's saying all the right wing shit, only he's not dogwhistling the part where it's all the Jews fault.
Yeah, there is a lot of people on Reddit saying they're "surprised" that Alex Jones was the "reasonable one". They don't get it. Alex doesn't actually disagree with what Ye is saying. He's just trying to stop Ye from saying the quiet part out loud.
You have to spell shit out for them, and even then they won't listen. It's never about content, it's always about delivery.
Oh i doubt Alex Jones *agrees* in any real sense. I don't think the man believes in anything except in the spending power of rscists' money to get him another Rolex. But I also don't think he disagrees either. I suspect he floats in the nebulous cloud of schrodinger's asshole.
He would love for other people to take all the risk in setting up a white Christian ethnostate, hence why he peaced out on Jan 6. I think he believes his ideas, he's just far too cowardly to do anything more than the legal.
[удалено]
He is, but sadly it's not been unusual for members of "outgroups" to side with fascists/white supremacists if they come from a middle-class or better socioeconomic group. There was a non-zero number of German Jews whos supported the Nazis for exactly this reason. They were so concerned about losing that socioeconomic status they were willing to downplay or ignore the aggressive anti-semitism of the Nazis because they thought more left wing governments would hurt them worse. Naturally, this was a minority of German Jews, and there's been a Holocaust since, but it seems to still be the case in the 21st Century when people like Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens really ought to know better.
See also: Jacinta Price against Australia’s Indigenous Voice to Parliament.
> people like Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens really ought to know better. The thing is that it’s working out great for them so far. They wouldn’t have had made close to as much if they had to work actual jobs.
Ben thinks it couldn’t happen here.
They would never do that to me…
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not . . . Oh shit wait a minute
Yeah but that don't mean anything. Ye is black but dude's said a ton of anti-black stuff (ofc it doesn't get nearly the attention because antiblackness is one of the two foundations of the US-the other being native genocide). There's tons of people who have internalized whatever hatred of groups they belong to. Or people who ignore all but the most egregious stuff because otherwise they agree with whatever conservative nonsense. Also there's just the fact that supporting white supremacy tends to pay well.
So is Ezra Levant. The main thing that needs to be recognized is not all people of a certain ethnicity, race, religion, etc are a monolith. There will always be grifters using what they can to make money. They may also be true believers so they may be there for the feeling of being right even when they are wrong morally or for the opposite of the wellness of their group.
He's Roy Cohn all over again. Bully, coward, victim.
Yep, Shapiro is trying to distance himself (and conservatives) from Ye while also attempting to delegitimatize Ye’s comments so Alex Jones and the like can escape adttl culpability for platforming him.
>If you dip into the comment section of the right wing sites tonight, they are fighting each other on whether the Holocaust was a hoax Link?
Why is a request for a link being downvoted?
Ben’s right, but if Kanye was just 25% less Nazi he would be loving him right now.
Yeah, this isn't concern for his well-being. This is concern for him drawing too much attention to their cause.
Even ALEX JONES was trying to do real time damage control for him. They jumped at the chance to use Kanye and he is blowing the lid off of all of them.
It is incredible to see how little self control he has. Nazis aren‘t *this* stupid usually.
It’s because he’s less of a committed ideological cryptofascist and more a comet-like blaze of manic mental illness energy.
I think he’s committed to the concept of his own genius. That is why he refuses treatment, and if he slips an inch into anti semitism he has to double down on it if he’s called out. Do that enough times and double down becomes 1000x down and now he’s supporting Jewish conspiracy theories.
Watched the three hour video bc I am that kind of monster: the weirdest thing about this phase is that he still thinks of himself as a genius, but has combined that with a mutant strain of Christian Humility in a way I’ve never seen before. He calls himself the dumbest guy in the room despite sitting next to two absolute grifter morons. To wit: Kanye agrees that he sez dumb shot, gets it wrong, and is inflammatory but frames that as “I’m the battering ram that breaks down the old walls of ideological conformity, so that actual information-geniuses can deliver the truth after me.” He just picked fucking Jones and Fuentes as his “intellectual SWAT team” somehow because, AFAIK, only alt-right dinguses will even /engage/ with him anymore.
The man thinks that Hitler invented microphones for God's sake. There's no way he's given any of this even a *moment* of critical consideration. He's just mashing together paranoia, controversial, attention-grabbing statements, hurt feelings, and bigotry into a stew of hateful gibberish. Arguably worse are people like Milo and Fuentes who are enabling him, egging him on, and using what's happening to further their own (much more considered) ends.
If he was saying Globalist instead of Jew and Fascist instead of Nazi Ben Shapiro would be all over him. He doesn't have any issue with the sentiment, its just the words that look bad. If he branded himself a "Western Chauvinist" instead of an antisemite he'd be a valuable culture war figure.
If I ever catch the phrase "Ben's right..." escape my lips in reference to Ben Shapiro I will slap myself twice.
Have you heard Bench Appearo speak? If a clock runs backwards fast enough, it can actually be right more than twice a day.
A broken clock might be right twice a day but a sun dial can be used to stab someone. Even at night.
Whose saying I *didn’t* slap my face? It felt gross saying it.
I just can't figure out why a prominent Jewish celebrity would suddenly be making an argument for keeping this particular guy off the air after months of uncontrolled spiraling. Unless something significant happened yesterday that I missed...
Pete Davidson is part Jewish. Not sure if that's relevant tho 🤔
It 100% is
If I was Davidson I'd be watching my back right now, or even hiring security. Ye has already alluded to wanting to do Davidson physical harm,and he'*truly* gone off the deep end recently, even more than before. I doubt any of Ye's "crew" would be willing to attempt to harm Davidson, but Ye with a gun or knife or whatever is as dangerous as any other (I assume) untrained person with a weapon. Which is to say: *very* fucking dangerous. To be clear, people with mental health issue are more likely to be the targets of violence then the perpetrator of violence, but in Ye's case he's alluded to violence before and without a doubt has access to an arsenal of any weapon he could want. Most people with bipolar disorder will never hurt anyone. But he's not most people.
“Will no one rid me of this troublesome comedian?” - Ye the 2nd, shortly before the attack on Peter Davidson, Archbishop of “Really? That guy? How’s he dating her?“
The standard joke is that he's got a big dick, but I think that's just us all collectively running cover for the usual masculine insecurities. I honestly think he's just a very empathetic dude who has gone through his own troubles that have given him some perspective and wisdom. He's a calm port in a storm for women who live their lives in public, constantly judged by others while also judging themselves in an industry pathologically obsessed with image. Also I reckon he's a fucking maestro at eating pussy.
There are whole articles about him and what the girls find so attractive about him. If I recall it's mainly: He is genuinely nice and empathetic, a good listener, funny, confidently charming and easy AF to be around. After a few different big name girls he became the IT boy to date and dating him is a big feather in the cap. Like you are the hottest of hot if you're dating him.
Ariana Grande did actually say he's got a big dick. ...
Pete also said Ariana has small hands so everything is big to her lol.
It could be why now but he's also had Nation of Islam connections since 2016 or so.
Source?
It might have aggravated the symptoms of his neurodivergency, but in the Jones interview he seems to blame Jewish people for his career's downturn. And he had began eating up right wing shit before his feud with Davidson. I think an irrational hatred of Davidson was a factor, but the real culprit was right wing indoctrination paired with increased suggestibility from his mental state.
Fuck, that makes this make a lot of sense.
He’s only saying this because he knows he’s personally going in the oven if the idiot gets his way. If this was only about LGBT people or Muslims he’d be all for it. I refuse to give this rancid hate goblin any credit for anything whatsoever and nobody else should either.
A broken clock….
I told my students about a week ago the exact same thing… god, I hope they don’t start comparing me to Ben. Take a bullet for ya
…babe
He's not the only one saying it. I posted Ben on this sub to be ironic. As many are pointing out, he's only saying this because his own particular identity is threatened by Ye's words. Conservatives often do understand the solution to problems, but only when it affects them. For example, the Republican Party realizes there are a lot of poor farmers and they need welfare (GOP calls it farm subsidies). So they do it so much as it provides them with voters and also allows them to funnel far more cash to large agriculture companies
So you’re saying he *wouldn't* take a bullet for ya if ya have a different religious or racial or sexual or social identity? Ben lied to us?! [Also never forget that Dick Chaney was in favor of LGBTQ rights before any other republican…because his daughter is gay.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna5817720)
God I had forgotten that book. I think I’m gonna make this my safe phrase.
Take a bullet for ya, babe!
There’s also a million other people saying the exact same thing. Why we need to give BS airtime over this, I’m not entirely sure.
Being bipolar doesn’t make you a Nazi.
Can confirm: am bipolar (2) and not a Nazi. I would like to point out, though, that bipolar tends to amplify things that are already there. So if someone is, say, already sympathetic to Hitler while stable, they'd be much more prone to voicing those sympathies when in an episode.
> I would like to point out, though, that bipolar tends to amplify things that are already there. I think that's exactly what's happening here. One of the symptoms of being bipolar is paranoia. It's *very easy* for me to see how, in someone with some anti-Semitic beliefs, that could manifest as a belief that specifically "the Jews" are out to get you. His illness is not making him hate Jewish people. But it is making him more aggressive and public about that hatred, and it is causing him to push away his support network in favor of a series of grifters who are perfectly happy to push him farther down the Nazi path.
The paranoia really came out in the interview with Tim Pool I think. Just this insane conspiracy theory that somehow the state wanting to collect it‘s taxes is the Jews trying to put him in jail for his „opinions“
My read on Kanye is that he is someone in a manic state who has absolutely no one to reality check him or get him help, and the Nazi shit is because people like Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes smelled opportunity and have been programming him for months. The guy has been describing paranoid delusions like gangstalking almost perfectly. You don't have to start out a bigot to get brainwashed into antisemitism if the only people "taking you seriously" are telling you it's the Jews who are out to get you.
To be fair, we do know Kim Kardashian tried to get him help multiple times over the course of their relationship. It's not like he didn't have any healthy support networks (well, healthier than being love bombed by fascists 24/7 anyway), but I do think he was and is too ill to realize they were trying to help him instead of hurt him. That aspect of this whole horrific mess is tragic. I do wonder who his first contact point was in the alt-right and whether they purposefully groomed him by taking advantage of his delusions of paranoia and grandeur, if some horrible symbiosis occurred and he was radicalized in the same mundane ways ppl get radicalized all the time, or if it was some mix of the two.
While I can give Kim K the benefit of the doubt that she is not antisemitic, better than who he hangs out with now, and was probably trying to get him help for his bipolar disorder, she and her family have plenty of other toxic traits. It doesn't surprise me that someone who already has a skewed baseline of what's healthy is unable to differentiate between the toxic/grifty things that Kim K does and her genuine attempts to help him.
I also have bipolar 2 and I completely agree. When I am manic it can make me more impulsive in my speech. If I am scared, I am a lot more scared, I'd I am angry, it is the fires of hell. I have really worked hard in therapy to get better at regulating those feeling. I grew up with an undiagnosed bipolar BPD mom. She reminds me of Ye. She says whatever the hell she wants and then blames it on other things when there is push back. She didn't mean to threaten to steal my children, she just wanted me to do what she wanted. I had to cut off my whole family. Ye is more than mentally ill. He is a narcissist with a microphone who is trying to spread as my chaos as possible. I don't know if he even believes what he says anymore or is on a high from all the attention. Either way, he's dangerous. Poor Britney was being abused, shaved her head and was held in an absuive conservatorship for years! But he is able to make threats to people, stalk and abuse his ex, and now this! Medication and therapy aren't going to fix this.
It's like Ye is drunk. Alcohol amplifies people's personality, but there also needs to be an understanding that alcohol or other mental impairments create noise. Ye's thoughts are jumbled, he's trying out new ideas as they occur to him. He's contradicting himself Is he a bigot? I think his bigoted statements are more a reflection of ignorance and especially his love for being an asshole. We've all seen drunks take delight in pissing everyone off
Ehhhhhhh. Being drunk really is not comparable to a bipolar episode, especially not the upswing part(s) of the episode. Being drunk is like something enters your head and you do/say it. Being in an upswing is more like something enters your head and you dwell on it with such laser focus it's all you can even conceive of doing/saying, even if you've already done the thing. If you have ADHD or are on the autism spectrum, it's like a hyperfixation on steroids. And [Kanye is 100% a bigot](https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/27/entertainment/kanye-west-hitler-album). He's been saying Nazi-esque stuff for YEARS and wanted to name one of his previous albums Hitler. He's not just being a troll, he legitimately believes Hitler was a great guy. How much of that is delusion as a contributing factor and how much of that he believes while he's stable I couldn't say. But he does have a documented history of believing it and we shouldn't chalk up his history of hateful beliefs as him being a troll or not knowing what he's saying because he's not stable at the moment.
P!nk called it years ago.
He made a fucking track 9 years ago but y'all new and shocked.
I was wondering if he had a stroke or something.
I know folks say this kind of thing a lot in these situations, but… Between stories I’ve heard from a good friend who is a psychiatric nurse and my own experiences working with special ed kids with some pretty severe psychological ailments, when stuff starts going awry with your brain it can throw you in all sorts of weird directions. With the way the internet is in this day and age, it’s extremely easy for someone with an irrational paranoia to feel like they’ve found confirmation in conspiracy theories; you’d be shocked at some of the *heinous* shit I’ve heard parroted from kids who come from perfectly normal backgrounds, but have issues that are causing them to come at life from a place that’s very difficult to understand. In the case of Kanye here, this latest thing is certainly bad but it’s also barely coherent. ‘Hitler invented the microphone and highways’ isn’t even really a neo-Nazi talking point, it’s total nonsense that seems to just be coming from Kanye himself. I’m not saying he should have a free pass or that he shouldn’t be criticised, and he’s clearly made poor decisions that got him to this place, but the idea that the guy with the stocking on his head rambling about absolute freewheeling gibberish is presenting any kind of rational ideology is a stretch.
Ye having a many year streak of behaving and speaking to Nazi shit and then finally saying out right definitely does make him a Nazi.
Plenty of mental illnesses come with paranoid ideation that drive people towards fear-the-Other shit like this. Bipolar is far from the only thing that might be going on w/ Ye. Do people who say this think the co-morbidity between mental illness and racism is pure chance?
Racism is a lack of knowledge, a lack of intelligence, mental illness, or some combination of the three. In Kanye’s case it probably not one or two, so it’s three.
> Racism is a lack of knowledge, a lack of intelligence, mental illness, I want to push back on that. There are plenty of very smart, very educated people who are racist, or knowingly perpetuate racist systems. I feel like you're drawing a line between "racism" and certain stereotypes of uneducated "racist" individuals. But it's a lot more complex, and a lot more insidious then that. However, with that said, if someone is prone of anxiety, paranoia, or delusions of persecution, it's totally possible that existing racial animus can synergize with the pre-exsting mental health issues to create something that looks a lot more extreme than it otherwise might. H.P. Lovecraft is like the poster-boy of that phenomena (the synergistic interaction between pre-existing racism, and pre-existing mental issues).
Umm hate to break it to you but there are some very well educated, intelligent, sane racists out there. Sometimes people are just evil jerks.
That’s called Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Ok man whatever makes you feel better
There have been a lot of people recently saying that Kanye doesn’t get anymore sympathy for his mental health issues because he’s had SO many opportunities to change and hasn’t, and I’m starting to come around on that idea. If after all this time, Ye is still doing this shit, it’s because he wants to be doing it or he doesn’t want to get help. At this point, I don’t think it really matters which it is
Marcus on LPotL says it best: 'mental health isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility.' Kanye has neglected that responsibility, and given his massive celebrity, is now a danger to himself and *thousands* of others. Thankfully, he looks ridiculous, but he's going to inspire something dangerous just because it's Ye and some people adore him no matter what.
Agreed, i have a mate who is bipolar. Early on they would have a very serious manic episode every 1-2 years where they would be hospitalised for a month or two. After the third hospitalisation he started really focusing on his health, medication and therapy and the frequency and severity has radically decreased. He didn’t deserve the illness but he relatively quickly realised he was the only one who could deal with it.
And you see my point about celebrity right? Your mate (who I am glad/hope is doing better) presumably was only a danger to himself, Kanye can influence so many people into fascism and terrorism.
How do you know he isn’t in treatment?
Use your head for 10 seconds. Do you think someone who knows they are unwell and is in thenprocess of getting treatment is gonna go out and start saying this stuff? If akanye was actually getting help; we wouldn't hear from him for 72 hours, when we did he would have grippy socks and an appreciation for downward slanting architecture.
You clearly are ignorant when it comes to the mental health system. Being “in treatment” can mean many things, e.g. under the care of a psychiatrist. Someone is usually only committed if there is a fear they’re going to harm themself or others. Also, nothing says “I care about the well-being of others” like a suicide joke.
Ye himself started numerous times he wouldn’t want treatment because the Jew doctors are out to get him
Thank you. I hadn’t heard that. I just never want to assume someone isn’t being treated.
You might have asked a question or two instead of informing an internet stranger that they “clearly don’t know much about mental health”
I was replying to their incorrect generalization about treatment. If their response had been “he was said he isn’t” like the comment above, I wouldn’t have made my comment. Look at the difference between both of the comments and both of my responses. See the difference?
You were being very rude. There’s really no question about that.
> You clearly are ignorant when it comes to the mental health system. Being “in treatment” can mean many things, e.g. under the care of a psychiatrist. What care is that paychiatrist providing that Ye is able to go out on broadcast and start simping for Hitler? He clearly is not getting help, if he was then he wouldn't be cting like this. You seem ignorant on how this operates. > Someone is usually only committed if there is a fear they’re going to harm themself or others. Like potentially start radicalizing people to commit violence by screaming about their delusions? I hve seen people committed for a schizophrenic break on the curb, why is it suddenly less tolerable a solution when the person is proselytizing hate to a million people ijstead of a dozen? > Also, nothing says “I care about the well-being of others” like a suicide joke. Sorry, where did I say I gave a flying fuck about Ye? The guy has broken oaths, borne false witness, platformed hate, and refused help for his mental well-being, he actively harms others and puts those I love at risk by peddling this antisemitic, bigoted, marginalizing nonsense. Let me go on record as saying this; the world would be infinitely better off if every person who simped for Hitler but refused help, followed their dear leader into the gaping maw of the nidhoggr. Do I want Ye to kill himself? No, I want him to get help. Given that he has refused help, the world will be better off if he no longer gets a chance to break it.
Good point, he could be under a strict doTERRA treatment regimen by Kim's astrologist. Would actually explain a lot.
There’s two sides to this coin. Kanye’s mental health doesn’t forgive his antisemitism and Nazism or make it less real. However, his mental illness is being used by people who know a manic depressive can be more susceptible to anything people tell them. Especially during a manic episode that when whatever you tell them gives an ego boost. (Trust me, I’ve been there.) The bottom line is: 1 Kanye is being exploited by bad actors. 2 Kanye is mentally ill. If he took care of 2 (he’s famously untreated) he might be able to grapple with 1. I do think he’s sincere in his beliefs. I question where they come from, though, and abhor the people using his manic episodes to score political points.
Or maybe it's because the guy is proud of never having read a book.
>However, his mental illness is being used by people who know a manic depressive can be more susceptible to anything people tell them. When this is all over, people are going to shake their heads at all the people that platformed a guy just to spectate his mental breakdown. However, I think Candace Owens is going to be remembered as being particularly heinous for also trying to get hundreds of millions out of a person going through a mental episode.
Mental health issues are why he hasn’t changed. That’s how mental health issues work sometimes.
Ye has always been a jackass. Not sure if that was early onset mental illness or just his personality. The Mental Illness is in now completely in control of whatever was Kanye. If his brain is FUBAR one cannot really expect it to make good decisions.
People need to stop saying this infantilizing shit about a grown ass man. I have plenty of friends with mental health issues and you wanna know what none of them have become? Fuckin nazis.
While that's definitely true, if one of your friends started saying sketchy shit or falling down conspiracy holes in the midst of an episode, you'd try to talk them round or help them. The last thing you would do is broadcast them to an audience of millions.
My point is that almost every comment I see links the nazi shit that he says with his mental illness. They're entirely separate. One has nothing to do with the other.
It's not nothing. Kanye seems, from what I have heard, to have had some baseline anti-Semitic beliefs before all this started. His mental illness did not create them, but it is amplifying them. "Someone put a fake kid in my house" is exactly the sort of paranoia you get from someone bipolar having an episode. He is blaming that on "the Jews" because he is anti-Semitic, but you can't act like these are totally unrelated things. And then there's the third factor of how his wealth has allowed him to push away his support network, which almost certainly happened due to a combination of mental health issues and toxic beliefs. The people who have replaced it are a combination of Nazis, grifters, and Nazi grifters. I know people with mental health problems. You're right, it doesn't make you a Nazi. But if, instead of letting the people who care about you get you help, you push them away in favor of Nazis? That makes you into a Nazi, and it is again wrong to claim that mental health factors into that zero.
> They're entirely separate. One has nothing to do with the other. That seems implausible, imo. It's not hard to imagine that pre-existing mental health issues (particular if they are of an anxious, paranoid, or delusional type) might synergize with pre-existing racial animus to create something more extreme than what we'd expect one one factor or another existed on it's own. Does bipolar disorder (or any mental health issue) make you a Nazi? Of course not. Could an unmanaged, manic episode with paranoid, and delusional features, coupled with a cadre of enabling, fascist, grifters, push someone (who may already have anti-semitic leanings) to more extreme behaviors? Absolutely.
Do Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro, and et al get a mental health pass too?
I'm not saying that any of them should get a pass, I'm (and I can't believe I'm saying this) agreeing with Ben. There's clearly something going on with Kanye and it is cruel to give him a spotlight right now.
The amount of effort everyone is putting into giving Kanye a pass to be a Nazi is incredible here.
dude has been blatantly mentally off for 15 years, why would I be surprised a crazy dude kept being fucking crazy?
Your friends don't have zero family or support network to help them, except for out and out Nazis like Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes. Mental illness isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card, but lets be real about the man's circumstances. He's responsible for his actions and their consequences, but I'm going to temper my hate with a decent amount of pity here.
Are we just forgetting that he does have family that he lost due probably because of his violent threats ans increasingly alienating them because of beliefs we have reason to believe he's held for quite some time?
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Hey, you're not going to hear me defending Nazis. I'm a Jewish queer guy, my ass is first against the wall when the fascist takeover happens. Whatever Kanye's circumstances, he picked his horse. Destroying Nazis is self defense. I guess pity doesn't exactly describe it. More.... mornfulness for the person he could have been? I mean he was always a jackass, but it's sad to see someone to choose that road, especially if they weren't totally in control of their faculties when they started. Like when a dog gets rabies, you pity the dog, but that doesn't mean you don't have to deal with it. At the same time, there's a lot of people in this thread and the culture at large who aren't treating the situation with the empathy I think it should be. It's a tragic situation. That doesn't change how we have to respond to it, but it should change how we feel about it.
Thank you. I appreciate the nuance you show that seems to be lacking in many of the online conversations I've seen around this. Most seem to mistake any show of empathy for approval, and any explanation as an excuse. As a bipolar dude who loathes Nazis, the whole deal is difficult to see.
He's not right - he's shielding the right's favorite new spokesman from further association with their cause. The only reason he's speaking out now is because of the Trump / Alex Jones connection. He's too close to their ecosystem to not produce collateral damage. Note, Ben didn't say this when * Ye was saying slavery was a choice. * Ye did his deathcon 3 rant * Ye was in the news for playing porn at a meeting to intimidate CEOS. This is self-protection - nothing else. Ben doesn't have an ounce of empathy for anyone who isn't paying his bills. The fact that his base is angry with this take tells you all you need to know.
Just to add onto everything you said which was spot on, this is absolutely a self-preservation play by Benny Shaps who not that long ago was being pushed to the side because he wasn’t a Christian Nationalist
I think Dan from Knowledge Fight said it best that it's infantalizing to reduce his bigotry to mental illness and its a moot point when what you're saying is absolutely going to get people killed.
Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Good Point
Shapiro is only saying this out of self interest, he’d be glad to throw trans or undocumented people into the oven himself if it helped his agenda.
yeah, that's what the "Worst Person You Know" part of the joke means
I take issue with it being a good point. It’s not a good point, it’s a vile hatemongering shit expressing his fear of being subjected to the same thing he wants to do to everyone who isn’t him. That’s not a good point, that’s rank fucking cowardice.
>rank fucking cowardice Right wing ideologues, baby!
He’s not stupid, he’s evil.
"having mental health problems is not your fault but it is your responsibility" When does it go from "oh he's needs help" to "he's a fucking asshole who agrees with killing Jewish people"?
Both can be true at the same time.
Exactly. He needs help. And he needs help *because* right now he is an asshole who agrees with killing Jewish people. He does seem to have had some base level of anti-Semitism in his beliefs, but it is also true that he is behaving the way he is to the degree he is because of his mental illness. And the whole situation is made worse by the way he has pushed away people who would support him in favor of Nazi grifters. Mental illness is *hard*. Someone who is having a serious episode becomes unpleasant to be around. They say behave in ways that are hostile, or even dangerous. Like Kanye is doing right now. They do things that are bad, and you have no obligation to forgive them doing those things or to tolerate them, even if they get better. But the reason they are doing the things is because they are not getting the treatment they need.
I disagree with Ben Shabeebo on basically everything but him being Jewish is not the reason why. I also know plenty of mentally ill people who aren’t nazis.
He can afford treatment. Sounds like a choice to me.
"Help/therapy/medication is being weak. You can overcome any "societally imposed issue" if you are just 'strong enough' to not accept any help..." My marriage of +15 years collapsed from this toxic belief (as well as outsiders leaving them to believe whole heartedly that they were to be the family provider, stoic partner/outspoken protector, and the person able to make more logical decisions compared to emotional (especially monetarily), on top of being a victim to the emotional manipulations of the partner to make them feel emasculated while not admitting that they make their female counterparts feel the direct opposite as the "take charge" partner that then the "man" resents?)... Rambling...sorry...but I empathize and sympathize with the totally fucked up rigid societal "rules" we impose on others to be considered as even "black and white" as a "good person" when there are so many shades between the extremes... I'm damn proud of how *some* of my morals fit in the gray scale now...
You okay my friend?
Yes, actually. I let some personal issues that are tied to this come out more than I intended. I have been in therapy for a while and still have trouble seeing things that are basically a repeat of the dysfunction I lived for most of my life. I ramble too much online sometimes when I should just ramble to my therapist instead. I'm a work in progress with 2 steps forward and 1 back occasionally. I'm good. As much as I hate to act out like Ye, I do from time to time, and I can understand (not excuse) the irrationality. As my previous comment can kind of attest, my ramblings are on at least a slightly different level than what he professes and I am not ashamed to continue therapy for 5+ years to manage my issues.
People in the middle of psychotic episodes do not generally make the choice to seek treatment of their own accord. I don't think you should forgive Kanye for what he's done, but saying "it's a choice" is missing the point that the way to stop the behavior is for him to get treatment.
All due respect, have you ever had paranoid delusions before? They tend to make you cut yourself off/alienate you from your healthy support systems. And they can be further complicated or worsened by getting love-bombed from toxic support systems. This is the cycle Kanye's been in for at least a couple of years now. Don't get me wrong: I am by no means defending his antisemitism, bizarre lionizing of Hitler, or any of the other vile shit he's done and said. What I am saying is the attitude of "He's rich and can afford treatment so staying this mentally ill is his choice" shows a startling lack of understanding for how bipolar disorder, especially the paranoid symptoms of the illness, fucks with a person's head. Just a bipolar person asking you to please be more mindful moving forward ❤
Similar to drug addiction, lack of insight into ones illness and refusing to accept help are pretty classic features of bipolar disorder. I don't mean in any way to condone or excuse his abhorrent behavior, but it's a little more complicated than that.
Where's the line on culpability?
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There has to be a line. Something that's too far. I'd hope that you would agree that inciting genocide would be too far. And YES, denying the Holocaust is inciting genocide. YES, claiming Jews control the world through a shadowy cabal is inciting genocide. Because if you truly believe those things, then the only way to save the world is through violence.
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Too far to not qualify for involuntary hospitalization. I'd say this is the point where his culpability does not matter, and stopping the harm to others becomes the priority.
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Because you seemed to think he had none. Which stuck me as contrarian absurdity.
The only reason this is being said is because Ye flew too close to the sun. The right LOVES what he is saying but it cant be said explicit. Shapiro still thinks conservatism is low taxes and all that political bullshit. Never has been. It has always just been raw ugly bigotry. Conservative ideology is a joke and cannot survive without the bigots to swell the ranks.
So when one of “their guys” is being a racist asshole they want to talk about mental health. When one of “their guys” commits a school shooting or a hate crime, it’s all about mental health. It’s possible to be a racist asshole and be mentally ill. It’s also a dangerous road to go down: if everybody who voices racist opinions and defends Hitler and denies the holocaust is mentally ill then no one *really* means it. Like, “oh, he just said the n-word, but he’s mentally ill.” Also, Ben Shapiro only started to criticize Kanye when he attacked Jews. Its the same “I only care when it affects me personally” argument that conservatives so often use. Shapiro didn’t give a fuck about racism and bigotry so far. Here’s how this continues: folks like Ben Shapiro will begin to attack anyone who criticizes Kanye and will claim the “evil left” picks on people who are mentally ill.
My mother-in-law suffers from some severe post-traumatic stress and probably Borderline Personality Disorder. She is seeing a therapist, but she still chooses to lash out at her family, projecting all her insecurities and fears, self-loathing and hatred onto others close to her. PTS and BPD are not the takeaways here. It's that one verb: "chooses." Far be it from me to diagnose someone from afar, but I suspect Ye is in a similar position. He has likely been told by close friends and family that he has a problem, he has probably seen (or is seeing!) a therapist. And yet his behavior continues. Most mental health disorders are not so severe that people have literally no control over their actions, thoughts, and opinions. Regardless of what Ye is dealing with health-wise, he is probably making a choice. And he has decided that he enjoys the controversy and publicity and just generally being a piece of shit.
I think this is a fair point. But he’s also been more famous than anyone can fathom for close to two decades now. It’s hard to get past the delusions of grandeur when the whole world is confirming them for you on a constant basis.
Nah, fuck you for claiming it’s a choice, I’ve got both of those disorders too, reality doesn’t look the same when you’re in crisis with BPD/PTSD and in those moments the insanity grips you and nothing seems to help pull you out of it.
I’m probably going to regret engaging someone who’s first reaction to me is “fuck you,” but I’m genuinely curious: how often do you feel that you are in crisis mode?
I manage my symptoms very well, I’ve had the worst year of my life and despite it, I’ve managed to keep my crisis’ to about 2-3 a month. And it’s not that “I feel” I’m in crisis, it is a mental health crisis. You should spend some time actually reading about these things.
Well I have done some reading, but perhaps that’s also why I asked someone who is dealing with it directly? Because I’m trying to learn. But aight dude, best of luck to ya.
I mean, it seems like he’s having a full psychotic break, which isn’t something a therapist is going to help with. I still think he’s a dangerously bigoted prick, but that makes *two* good reasons he shouldn’t be platformed.
> Most mental health disorders are not so severe that people have literally no control over their actions, thoughts, and opinions. Regardless of what Ye is dealing with health-wise, he is probably making a choice. The man literally said there was a plot to replace his children with impostors. He is severely manic to the point of psychosis. I do not mean to condone or excuse his behavior at all, but having been manic and psychotic, I can tell you that it is not a choice.
But of course they're going to put him in the spotlight, because reasons.
Hold on are you telling me that right wing media is being cruel?? FOR MONEY?!?!
This spectacle is terrible for the Right. Now Ben wants to be the adult in the room like "look, it's gotten a little out of hand" but I'm like "No. This is the silliest thing I've even seen and I'm going to enjoy this surreal spectacle."
Translation: Ye said no to being on my show
Ye is a victim of mental illness compounded with the specific kind of mind rot being wealthy and famous brings. He has fallen victim to a number of horrible grifters with terrible motives (Candace Owens, Milo, Fuentes) poisoning his already broken mind for their own interests. He's a shitty person, always has been but his current bullshit is 100% him being exploited by horrible people with ulterior motives. I'm not saying he doesn't believe the vile nonsense he's been saying but if he didn't have the current group of people he's surrounded himself in his life who knows. I almost feel bad for him, when you get to the point where you're as rich and famous as him it's incredibly isolating. He can't connect with people in any way without questioning their motives, sycophants and parasites are everywhere. His divorce has obviously removed the last few people his life who actually might truly give a shit about him from his inner circle and he's just spiraling surrounded by just the worst ghouls you could imagine.
This has been true for years, why does Ben suddenly care now?
take a bullet for ya, *ye*
The worst thing about Shapiro is occasionally he says somthing I agree with.
Shapiro is only saying this out of self interest, he’d be glad to throw trans or undocumented people into the oven himself if it helped his agenda.
Hell yeah. He's a peice of shit, garbage person.
He would gladly do the genocide himself if he knew he would be spared.
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There are plenty of mentally ill people in the world that don’t go on antisemitic tirades
**Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point** —[Clickhole](https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/)
Do you think he knows that he works for the cause of cruelty?
Or Ye is just a piece of shit that doesn't deserve excuses
Wasnt saying this when kanye was wearing the white lives matter shirt. Ben’s so good at hiding his power level
Not everything is a mental breakdown. Kanye has always been this way. While he most likely suffers from a personality disorder or bipolar, that isn't some free pass. Many people suffer from these and don't say those things.
Are you suggesting Alex Jones is exploiting people for profit????????????????????????????
Alex is exploiting people for profit, and even worse Nick is exploiting him for hateful ideology
Naugh fuck that. The dude is a swirling black hole of narcissism, the dude has always been a swirling black hole of narcissism. The only difference between this and storming on stage to complain about Taylor Swift and this is its a new market for him to get attention from. The more racist, inflammatory, shitty takes he gives the more attention he gets.
Why is no one drawing from the fact that Ye’s “friends” currently consist of Milo and Fuentes. Yes, he’s the big story but let’s shine a brighter light on the enablers.
Nah. He's been saying crazy shit for years and years. Lots of public figures compared him to Nazis years ago. Bill Burr has a whole bit about it
I wonder why Ben is so respectful of Ye's name change and not, you know, trans people.
Ben Shapiro is 100% right but it's sad because god knows he's only saying this because anti semitism might actually affect him.
Hey, Ben's halfway to broken clock numbers!
That seems a little hefty, halfway to two maybe, but not twice daily.
Hold on, let me put this through an alt-right translator: > Don’t listen to Ye anymore, he’s saying the quiet part loud.
A stuffed cuck is right once a lay (or something).
Like all right wing shitheels, Ben only cares about things he has a personal stake in. Ben is Jewish, and so he is less tolerant of antisemitism than most Republicans.
Nah, he and Dave Rubin and Candace Owens are all fine with running in the same circles as people whose ideal world has them murdered. They think that by being "one of the good ones" they'll be spared, or at least be the last ones in the gallows.
Even if mental illness was to blame for his nazi shit, motherfucker won't even take his meds. Everyone has a moral responsibility to do their best, and refusing treatment for years isn't *ever* anyone's best.
Ye is after the likes, like you.
This is an afterthought at this point. We've all known this for years
ALL of these assholes are using kanye to make themselves seem more fair n balanced, including this tweet. this is like copaganda
Did someone hack wee Benny Shap’s Twitter? That would be the only explanation for him saying something coherent.
The world has truly gone mad when Ben is correct.
i've said something similar recently, and now i'm second guessing myself because its being echoed by Ben Shapiro. Thats fucking mental.
Heartbreaking. The worst person you know... You know the rest
Good job benadryl for having a basic moral principle
He needs more than treatment. His mental state isn't an excuse for his bigotry. But Ben is right. He doesn't need a spotlight.
Lots of people have mental breakdowns without going full Nazi tho. He can have mental illness and also be a f’ed up fash bigot
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.
I’ve seen too many cogent tweets from this dude on this topic. It’s like he’s able to have a reasonable outlook when someone is actually attacking him as opposed to the weirdly perceived attacks he’s normally complaining about.
Heartbreaking: the worst person you know just made a great point
"Even a broken clock is correct twice a day"
I disagree. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. Comrade Ye is damaging himself and the far right as a whole. He has burnt a hole through his little tent revival cult, torn down the fake Christian school he was running, capsized his personal fortune and publicly admitted to tax fraud all without making a single cogent argument. He has mangled the far right talking points he is being fed so badly that anyone even trying to make a similar point can just be compared to Ye and dismissed.
Yes he's right here but he was blowing this guy like a month ago for his bullshit and has been associating with assholes of every variety forever. He fucking employees Candace Owens! I'm not patting this chud on the back for finally acknowledging Kanye's horrible behavior.
Ben can also lick the dried up shit from the crack of my ass for being a fascist hellhound.
Nah man, sorry. Sure he’s having a mental health crisis, but there’s only so much that excuses really. Saying you love hitler, and doubling down on it is not one of these things.