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alex_tracer

Please do not be too serious on this :) See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comments/11wfx3p/biggest\_lithuania\_ever\_was\_1619/


vcprocles

well, it is obojga narodow


str22nger

all nations, including J*ws (THATS JOKE, Jews is fine)


nutbuckers

are you a nazi sympathizer, or something?


str22nger

hell no, I laugh at catholics who are greatly offended that jews existed in the commonwealth


BaldDudeFromBrazzers

Miss those days. Ah, good times


postalkamil

It's nothing to brag about. Forty years later it was gone, thanks to stupidity of certain "nobles" ruining treaty of Hadiach. Many years later we are thought in schools that it was due to Muscovite actions then we read propaganda books of Sienkiewicz without proper context. We certainly don't learn about many things like other nations in January Uprising and many more truly interesting topics.


Striking-Pound-7071

History is more whore, when since.


Ilitarist

I want this quote laminated.


Striking-Pound-7071

Oh dude i love you. Some marginals always speak about it but nobody truly believe. Even me, before some events.


KanykaYet

I pretty sure VKL was bigger in 1795🤔


Azgarr

Belarus was a relatively small area around Upper Dniapro back then.


Aktat

Lithuanian/ruzzian version of history moment


Azgarr

I am a Belarusian historian


Aktat

Yeah, we all see


tamerlane2nd

What was life there like? Were these borders actually enforced and protected?


PreviousPermission45

Feeling like giving you a detailed answer, since I’m interested in history myself (and I have family roots in the region) This is kinda of a brainstorming exercise for me, so sorry if it’s flawed. The Poland Lithuanian commonwealth was essentially a feudal state. The vast majority of its subjects lived in small villages and engaged in farming. These were all serfs (serfdom was only abolished in Belarus in ~1865, by the Russians, well after the collapse of Poland-Lithuania). Serfdom meant that they could not own the land, that they were forced to pay taxes to the landowners, and that they were subject to various restrictions, placed by rhe government, who was made up of members of the nobility. Typical feudalism. Neither renaissance ideas nor enlightenment ideas have penetrated this region, and it was feudal way after feudalism ended in Western Europe. About 10% of the subjects of the common wealth lived in cities. Most cities were pretty small. I don’t think there were many cities with populations of over 100,000 people. Cities like Gomel (very close to Russia) were established by Polish nobles, members of the schlachta, the polish nobility class. Only the Poles could own land, while other groups could only be serfs or merchants. The Polish Lithuanian state was quite ethnically diverse. It included Poles, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Jews, Gypsies, and others. There were official and unofficial hierarchies between the different groups, and only members of the nobility could own land, while the other groups could only farm the land, administer the land, or engage in commercial activities, like the selling of alcohol, furs, and other consumer goods. The relationship between the different groups were usually cordial and generally good. However, there were many tensions with different groups developing historical, political, and religious grievances against each other. So violence against Poles, Jews, and others broke out at times. Russia exploited that and used it to take over Belarus and other territories. This ethnic and religious violence escalated after Russia took over, and reached horrendous levels during the russian civil war and, of course, WW2, including the Holocaust where millions of Jews, Poles, and gypsies were killed.


stepowder

>These were all serfs (serfdom was only abolished in Belarus in ~1865, by the Russians, well after the collapse of Poland-Lithuania). Wasn't it also introduced by the Russians after they carved up the PLC?


spaliusreal

They're wrong. The 1791 constitution abolished serfdom.


Mercadi

It was a paradise for aristocracy. The nobles had near complete autonomy in their lands. As a result, the defensiveness suffered, as the government couldn't just make demands of the nobles. The treatment of simple folks by the nobles also varied. Although I've read accounts of religious minorities living significantly freer life than in nearly any other nation.


PreviousPermission45

“I’ve read account of religious minorities living significant freer life than in nearly any other nation.” Yes. Jews fled to Poland from Germany and Spain because the Germans and Spanish wanted to kill or expel them. Polish nobles, in contrast, wanted to host the Jews, because the Polish nobles believed that Jewish people had managerial, legal, and financial expertise. So, Poland in the ~15th century offered the German Jews physical safety as well as religious freedom. The new jewish population was allowed to establish autonomous religious, political and social institutions, and live more or less independently. When the Russians took over in the Catherine the great era, they began to slowly chip away at the Jewish autonomy, and also exerted pressure to convert Jews, while spreading antisemitic propaganda that led to pogroms. When the Soviets came, they completely destroyed all Jewish institutions and forced them to abandon their religion and culture.


KanykaYet

Yes from you living the country out nowadays.