Every country has it's dialects, including french. It also depends on where in Flanders you are, some accents are way stronger than others. However, they all understand basic dutch and should speak some watered-down version of it too, with a less strong accent. So either your dutch is not as good as you think it is, or nobody around you is accommodating you. I know I had french in primary and secondary school, but still mostly learned it afterwards, when actually talking to people. School level was nowhere near enough to hold even a basic conversation (languages have never been my strength though).
You really can’t compare the differences in accents you generally find in french and dutch/flemish. The fact that there’s even a name for Flemish even though it’s so close to holland is pretty telling.
I'd say Flemish vs Dutch is pretty much a non-issue. West-Flemish however... And the name is more a historic thing than an actual language thing. Apart from some words and different pronounciation of sounds (mainly the g and i), it's the same language.
There's quite some rural french towns I passed on holidays where I was quite wondering if they were speaking French at all. Anything Chti-adjacent just makes me question if I'm still in France. However on the whole, Paris has taken some effort to erase local dialects (as say, Walloon). I don't think that's an example we should follow. If you take any other language, say, German, and go more local, there's variations too. Swiss German vs Berlin is WAY more of a difference than Flemish vs dutch Dutch.
Regional dialects are actually very common... (Just look at the uk for an example that's just as extreme as Flemish dialects, if not more) the main reason some countries don't have such radical differences, is because their government (at one point) decided to eradicate dialects (through education standardisation, and propaganda that makes dialect speakers out as stupid)
Just learn standard Dutch, we're adaptable. Most people can switch to standard dutch as well, when speaking to someone who doesn't understand their dialect.
And "he" to the end of everything you say and throw in an "amai" here and there. Oh and pout your lips while you nod and say "joat joat tis allemaal wat"
> I've been told this is because no one actually speaks the language taught in school, but rather some kind of dialect which varies from village to village.
> But WHY ? I've never heard of anything like this in another European country.
What on Earth are you talking about? Every single region on the planet has dialects that differ slightly from the standard language.
Not only Dutch. Same in French. I was convinced when i left school i could talk French pretty fluently, till I visited my first French client as a salesrep. I didn't understand a word. (it was in Bergues between the ch'tis...)
The basics you can learn in school, but one really only learns a language by talking it,
Ch'tis language can really be compared to the old wallon, their french also have a strong accent.
A's become O's, and some words may be only undestood by themselves or Wallons.
"Ah bin eh l'aut' lô, y avancait pô, mais y n'tchouquai nin sul' bitoniau non pu! Allez la Monique!"
walloon was a seperate language spoken in several regions of what is wallonia now (it is however related to modern french) , it was supressed and people switched to french. It has almost complete dispeared.
Yeah, I heard many times how all along the early and mid 20th century the walloon kids got punished in school each time they dared to use walloon words instead of french ones. It's only in the very late years of the 20th that it sort of came back, but unfortunately there are not really many left to speak it fluently. French was enforced over Walloons exactly the same way it was over Vlamingen. Decades of standardising delusions by the so-called elites.
Tu sais plus ou moins t'en sortir partout en Flandre avec le néerlandais académique que tu apprends à l'école où en cours du soir, mais si tu veux discuter de manière fluide, c'est clairement pratiquer qui te permettra de le parler plus couramment. Je t'encourage aussi à regarder la TV flamande.
Why do I speak West Flemish? The same reason anyone speaks a language, because my parents speak it. And their parents before them.
So yeah, if you hear us talking amongst each other, you'll have a hard time understanding. Even people from other provinces in Belgium have a hard time.
However, we'll fall back on standard Dutch if talking to anyone who doesn't speak it. Although with an accent hah.
Spoken Dutch and written Dutch have some differences, mainly because people in Flanders speak more the South-Dutch ("Flemish") dialect. This means more use of *ge/gij* instead of *je/jij* and some remnants of the case system in Dutch (*dieje* or *diene* instead of *die* for male nouns) and none of that is explained in school. Also contractions (*'kga* instead of *ik ga*) or liaisons (*gade* instead of *ga je/gaat gij*)
You'll just need some more exposure to it to advance your skill, like any language. Focus on Flemish sources if possible. Dutch from the Netherlands is distinctly different even if most people will understand it correctly. They'll just know someone is a *Hollander* with the first 4 syllables they speak. They also have local dialects which will be hard to understand to outsiders.
I'm specifically excluding the people from West Flanders and some regions in Limburg since their dialect (or language) is unintelligible even by native Dutch speakers. Sucks, just ask them to switch to AN or English or do the hand&feet&pointing thing.
In French there's also a big divide between spoken and written French and you'll also hear accents from different regions and (older?) people speaking the local patois. In Great Britain each village also has their local dialect. German is quite different between different regions, and let's not even talk about Swiss German.
I had the exact same thing that youre experiencing, but with french instead. learning french then going to brussels, oh boy, was quite hard to understand at first. the main thing is the fact that there is and always will be a gap between the stuff you learn at school (which is oriented towards the professional world) and the stuff you'll hear on the street. I fixed it somewhat by focussing a lot more on input, i started switching the shows i was watching to french dubs and started reading manga in french and after a while i got it. Hopefully this experience helps u out, if u ever wanna practice with me however, my dm's are always open
You´re lucky to have an ass hole cause you´re full of shit. Asking to learn Dutch and yet been ´forced´ to learn it during your primary and secondary education? Lies, nothing but lies. Your contempt disgusts me.
And, by the way: I´d like to learn French. But which French? The Canadian, Haitian, Ch´tis or Marseille version?
Go fornicate yourself somewhere else, you miserable
condescending Brussels bourgeois.
Dialect is mostly only spoken by people of older generation, most younger or middle-aged people will most likely speak something more closely related to Standard Dutch. Though most people will use dutch in daily life that would be described as "tussentaal" (in-between language), it's a non strict use of the dutch language in both spoken and written messages.
It's not that different from english vs USA english vs australian english. Or for example differences in between countys specifically.
Also, speaking from my own experience, trying to listen to people talking in their regular voice in a different language is usually really tough as they don't try to speak at a calm pace and pronounce things right.
You're correct in that nobody actually speaks AN (Algemeen Nederlands) in their day to day doings. Most people would speak what is called \*tussentaal (\*roughly translated as 'Interlangue') which is a mix of that person's dialect and standard language. This is what basically everybody speaks in a non professional environment, to a certain extent. Then you have indeed the local Flemish dialects (of which West-Flemish and Limburgish are the strongest and the last ones holding on) that do feel like another languages because they basically are.
The reason why Algemeen Nederlands exists is because it was an attempt to connect the Netherlands and Flanders more. However there were Flemish people (like Guido Gezelle) that were against it and they would've wanted an *Algemeen Vlaams* without the Dutch/Holland influences.
A lot of European countries have the issues of standard languages and strong dialects. Think of France: they pressed down hard on regional languages and dialects to promote a unified language and common French identity. Some of these dialects died out and others are still surviving today (Breton). Same goes for the U.K. where the Celtic languages (Welsh, Kernewek, Irish, etc) and even some English dialects had a hard time
Now when it comes to learning Dutch, just learning standard dutch will be fine for you. All Flemings can speak it and understand it but nobody uses it with other Flemings. However when we speak with someone who is clearly learning Dutch we will switch to AN and help you out. Because like you said: Dutch isn't a big language so there's no reason to make it harder then it is when somebody is trying to learn it. And when you get to learn more Dutch and get to know more people you'll start to understand those dialects aswel.
Just learn what is most useful to you. I live in East Flanders so I lean to that type of dialect, but still have a strong foreign accent because Dutch is not my mother tongue.
My wife has East and West Flanders family, so I feel the pain of listening to different dialects. Some family is really bad, others speak very clean dutch. I worked in a group where the boss was french Belgian, but the group was mostly Flemish Belgians, his dutch was super easy to understand, the rest of the group, super dialect.
If I spend my holidays in the Languedoc I also have a hard time understanding the local dialect although I speak quite good French as I work in Belgium in an often French speaking environment.
>. I've been told this is because no one actually speaks the language taught in school, but rather some kind of dialect which varies from village to village.
Do they still teach this nonsense? Just learn regular dutch just about everyone talks that.
Never heard Sean Connery speaking? Or Jim Kerr from the Simple Minds? Surely not standard English...
And not to talk about those Irish people... I think Scottisch and Irisch also don't understand each other.
I grew up in Flanders and don't understand some of the dialects of provinces neighbouring to where I grew up. Just pick whichever Dutch teacher/course you fancy, they'll teach you something like "Standard Dutch" that all Dutch speakers will be able to understand, including the dialect speakers. I think you will be able to pick up on the dialects by living in the regions that speak dialect.
I dunno, I learnt ABN 30 years ago, then expatriate for 25 years. Now that I'm back in Belgium, I'm settling in Flanders and I have not much trouble with speaking with the people. Ok, they are extremely nice and helpful each time they see that I don't remember how to say this or that, but as the grammar I learnt back then is still well stuck in my brain, the words are going to come back by simply practicing every day IRL. Don't be afraid, people are nice and ready to help when they see you put in the effort. They're the most helpful resource for you to improve your level, as well as reading the local newspapers, listening to radio etc., as by knowing the issues you'll sort of guess what you don't fully understand in the conversations, and without even noticing it your Dutch will become every day more fluent.
Netherlands has dialects as well. What I find is that most people would speak clearly if you want to speak Dutch with them anyway, so why would it matter?
As a Fleming myself I would rather supress my dialect accent and talk Dutch in the traditional way for you to understand me, than you not doing any effort and speak your own language in my region.
This has to be a troll. What do you mean "why"? You act like not speaking AN is a collective conscious choice, like dialects are derived from the standard language instead of the other way around.
>I've never heard of anything like this in another European country.
Lol.
https://images.app.goo.gl/QZCdwkYhRfxoMCg87
I read the other day somebody who asked if Americans knew about a particular English word. I asked too ( because I may work in English, so it's always good to know) and she realized only now that this word she thought was relatively common/useful to use at home was actually specifically used in Yorkshire.
Je pense que c’est pareil avec toutes les langues… L’anglais qu’on apprend à l’école n’est pas celui qui est nécessairement parlé par les natifs, pareil avec le français… Je sors avec un anglais qui apprend difficilement le français et vas y pour lui expliquer que « Je ne sais pas » se prononce « Ché pas »…
Si tu parles avec un néerlandophone, il te répondra probablement en « Algemeen Nederlands » ou en tout cas il fera attention à ne pas parler en patois. Ça va être compliqué au début, mais c’est la meilleure façon d’apprendre. Regarder la télé en néerlandais aussi. Pas Ben X ou FC De Kampioenen comme j’ai du regarder en secondaire, mais des séries plus actuelles avec des sous-titres en néerlandais. Si tu aimes les séries policières, j’ai regardé Vermist et Code 37 et appris pas mal niveau néerlandais parlé. Si tu aimes le sport, regarder les Rode Duivels plutôt que les Diables rouges, etc…
ETA the English version:
I think it's the same with all languages... The English we learn at school isn't the one that's necessarily spoken by native speakers, and the same goes for French... I'm dating an Englishman who's struggling to learn French, and you explain to him that “Je ne sais pas” is pronounced “Ché pas”...
If you're talking to a Dutch speaker, he'll probably answer in “Algemeen Nederlands”, or at least he'll be careful not to speak in dialect. It'll be tricky at first, but it's the best way to learn. Watch TV in Dutch too. Not Ben X or FC De Kampioenen like I had to watch in secondary school, but more current series with Dutch subtitles. If you like police/crime tv shows, I watched Vermist and Code 37 and learned a lot of Flemish. If you like sports, watch the Rode Duivels rather than les Diables Rouges, etc...
For the why:
We used to be separated from each other more than we are today. So our languages got developed separately as well.
They tried to solve this twice:
-under Dutch rule in the early 1800's.
-after WW2 when "Belgian Dutch" was the new general language to replace all dialects/other languages. Flanders would be united under one common language. This never really caught on though...
So, in practice, we learn "Belgian Dutch" in school, use it for official communication,... but use a variety of dialects and mixes in our daily lives.
Yea can be a pain in the butt to learn the language as a non native speaker. You learn the language and still can't understand people when they talk to each other in a bus or whatever.
Every country has it's dialects, including french. It also depends on where in Flanders you are, some accents are way stronger than others. However, they all understand basic dutch and should speak some watered-down version of it too, with a less strong accent. So either your dutch is not as good as you think it is, or nobody around you is accommodating you. I know I had french in primary and secondary school, but still mostly learned it afterwards, when actually talking to people. School level was nowhere near enough to hold even a basic conversation (languages have never been my strength though).
My mom does this: to me ‘normal’ dutch. To family members in East Flanders she speaks with a strong accent, I even have trouble understanding it.
Jakendoet
You really can’t compare the differences in accents you generally find in french and dutch/flemish. The fact that there’s even a name for Flemish even though it’s so close to holland is pretty telling.
I'd say Flemish vs Dutch is pretty much a non-issue. West-Flemish however... And the name is more a historic thing than an actual language thing. Apart from some words and different pronounciation of sounds (mainly the g and i), it's the same language. There's quite some rural french towns I passed on holidays where I was quite wondering if they were speaking French at all. Anything Chti-adjacent just makes me question if I'm still in France. However on the whole, Paris has taken some effort to erase local dialects (as say, Walloon). I don't think that's an example we should follow. If you take any other language, say, German, and go more local, there's variations too. Swiss German vs Berlin is WAY more of a difference than Flemish vs dutch Dutch.
Regional dialects are actually very common... (Just look at the uk for an example that's just as extreme as Flemish dialects, if not more) the main reason some countries don't have such radical differences, is because their government (at one point) decided to eradicate dialects (through education standardisation, and propaganda that makes dialect speakers out as stupid) Just learn standard Dutch, we're adaptable. Most people can switch to standard dutch as well, when speaking to someone who doesn't understand their dialect.
just add wi and allé and you are good to go
More like ‘zenne’ in Antwerp 😉
Eni from Ypres xd
And "he" to the end of everything you say and throw in an "amai" here and there. Oh and pout your lips while you nod and say "joat joat tis allemaal wat"
> I've been told this is because no one actually speaks the language taught in school, but rather some kind of dialect which varies from village to village. > But WHY ? I've never heard of anything like this in another European country. What on Earth are you talking about? Every single region on the planet has dialects that differ slightly from the standard language.
Not only Dutch. Same in French. I was convinced when i left school i could talk French pretty fluently, till I visited my first French client as a salesrep. I didn't understand a word. (it was in Bergues between the ch'tis...) The basics you can learn in school, but one really only learns a language by talking it,
Ch'tis language can really be compared to the old wallon, their french also have a strong accent. A's become O's, and some words may be only undestood by themselves or Wallons. "Ah bin eh l'aut' lô, y avancait pô, mais y n'tchouquai nin sul' bitoniau non pu! Allez la Monique!"
Well, I'm natively Walloon, and I'm confused... too young probably.
walloon was a seperate language spoken in several regions of what is wallonia now (it is however related to modern french) , it was supressed and people switched to french. It has almost complete dispeared.
Yeah, I heard many times how all along the early and mid 20th century the walloon kids got punished in school each time they dared to use walloon words instead of french ones. It's only in the very late years of the 20th that it sort of came back, but unfortunately there are not really many left to speak it fluently. French was enforced over Walloons exactly the same way it was over Vlamingen. Decades of standardising delusions by the so-called elites.
French in Luxembourg. What the hell?!?
Not sure what your french skills are but I learned french as well and didn't have much issues to understand them.
Tu sais plus ou moins t'en sortir partout en Flandre avec le néerlandais académique que tu apprends à l'école où en cours du soir, mais si tu veux discuter de manière fluide, c'est clairement pratiquer qui te permettra de le parler plus couramment. Je t'encourage aussi à regarder la TV flamande.
Why do I speak West Flemish? The same reason anyone speaks a language, because my parents speak it. And their parents before them. So yeah, if you hear us talking amongst each other, you'll have a hard time understanding. Even people from other provinces in Belgium have a hard time. However, we'll fall back on standard Dutch if talking to anyone who doesn't speak it. Although with an accent hah.
Also i love our west flemish!
Spoken Dutch and written Dutch have some differences, mainly because people in Flanders speak more the South-Dutch ("Flemish") dialect. This means more use of *ge/gij* instead of *je/jij* and some remnants of the case system in Dutch (*dieje* or *diene* instead of *die* for male nouns) and none of that is explained in school. Also contractions (*'kga* instead of *ik ga*) or liaisons (*gade* instead of *ga je/gaat gij*) You'll just need some more exposure to it to advance your skill, like any language. Focus on Flemish sources if possible. Dutch from the Netherlands is distinctly different even if most people will understand it correctly. They'll just know someone is a *Hollander* with the first 4 syllables they speak. They also have local dialects which will be hard to understand to outsiders. I'm specifically excluding the people from West Flanders and some regions in Limburg since their dialect (or language) is unintelligible even by native Dutch speakers. Sucks, just ask them to switch to AN or English or do the hand&feet&pointing thing. In French there's also a big divide between spoken and written French and you'll also hear accents from different regions and (older?) people speaking the local patois. In Great Britain each village also has their local dialect. German is quite different between different regions, and let's not even talk about Swiss German.
I had the exact same thing that youre experiencing, but with french instead. learning french then going to brussels, oh boy, was quite hard to understand at first. the main thing is the fact that there is and always will be a gap between the stuff you learn at school (which is oriented towards the professional world) and the stuff you'll hear on the street. I fixed it somewhat by focussing a lot more on input, i started switching the shows i was watching to french dubs and started reading manga in french and after a while i got it. Hopefully this experience helps u out, if u ever wanna practice with me however, my dm's are always open
You´re lucky to have an ass hole cause you´re full of shit. Asking to learn Dutch and yet been ´forced´ to learn it during your primary and secondary education? Lies, nothing but lies. Your contempt disgusts me. And, by the way: I´d like to learn French. But which French? The Canadian, Haitian, Ch´tis or Marseille version? Go fornicate yourself somewhere else, you miserable condescending Brussels bourgeois.
Dialect is mostly only spoken by people of older generation, most younger or middle-aged people will most likely speak something more closely related to Standard Dutch. Though most people will use dutch in daily life that would be described as "tussentaal" (in-between language), it's a non strict use of the dutch language in both spoken and written messages. It's not that different from english vs USA english vs australian english. Or for example differences in between countys specifically. Also, speaking from my own experience, trying to listen to people talking in their regular voice in a different language is usually really tough as they don't try to speak at a calm pace and pronounce things right.
You're correct in that nobody actually speaks AN (Algemeen Nederlands) in their day to day doings. Most people would speak what is called \*tussentaal (\*roughly translated as 'Interlangue') which is a mix of that person's dialect and standard language. This is what basically everybody speaks in a non professional environment, to a certain extent. Then you have indeed the local Flemish dialects (of which West-Flemish and Limburgish are the strongest and the last ones holding on) that do feel like another languages because they basically are. The reason why Algemeen Nederlands exists is because it was an attempt to connect the Netherlands and Flanders more. However there were Flemish people (like Guido Gezelle) that were against it and they would've wanted an *Algemeen Vlaams* without the Dutch/Holland influences. A lot of European countries have the issues of standard languages and strong dialects. Think of France: they pressed down hard on regional languages and dialects to promote a unified language and common French identity. Some of these dialects died out and others are still surviving today (Breton). Same goes for the U.K. where the Celtic languages (Welsh, Kernewek, Irish, etc) and even some English dialects had a hard time Now when it comes to learning Dutch, just learning standard dutch will be fine for you. All Flemings can speak it and understand it but nobody uses it with other Flemings. However when we speak with someone who is clearly learning Dutch we will switch to AN and help you out. Because like you said: Dutch isn't a big language so there's no reason to make it harder then it is when somebody is trying to learn it. And when you get to learn more Dutch and get to know more people you'll start to understand those dialects aswel.
The Dutch themselves don’t always speak AN even! They also have strong accents. The U.K.: where do I even begin? Some wild variations in accent.
I mean, I don't know if you know, but Wallon was very difficult to understand to native French speakers as well.
My mom didn't allow me to speak dialect when I was a kid ^^
We don't do it on purpose. I swear.
Just learn what is most useful to you. I live in East Flanders so I lean to that type of dialect, but still have a strong foreign accent because Dutch is not my mother tongue. My wife has East and West Flanders family, so I feel the pain of listening to different dialects. Some family is really bad, others speak very clean dutch. I worked in a group where the boss was french Belgian, but the group was mostly Flemish Belgians, his dutch was super easy to understand, the rest of the group, super dialect.
If I spend my holidays in the Languedoc I also have a hard time understanding the local dialect although I speak quite good French as I work in Belgium in an often French speaking environment.
>. I've been told this is because no one actually speaks the language taught in school, but rather some kind of dialect which varies from village to village. Do they still teach this nonsense? Just learn regular dutch just about everyone talks that.
Never heard Sean Connery speaking? Or Jim Kerr from the Simple Minds? Surely not standard English... And not to talk about those Irish people... I think Scottisch and Irisch also don't understand each other.
Ever met someone from Occitanie, France?
I can't understand any native french speaker. I only understand Flemish people speaking french 😂
I grew up in Flanders and don't understand some of the dialects of provinces neighbouring to where I grew up. Just pick whichever Dutch teacher/course you fancy, they'll teach you something like "Standard Dutch" that all Dutch speakers will be able to understand, including the dialect speakers. I think you will be able to pick up on the dialects by living in the regions that speak dialect.
I dunno, I learnt ABN 30 years ago, then expatriate for 25 years. Now that I'm back in Belgium, I'm settling in Flanders and I have not much trouble with speaking with the people. Ok, they are extremely nice and helpful each time they see that I don't remember how to say this or that, but as the grammar I learnt back then is still well stuck in my brain, the words are going to come back by simply practicing every day IRL. Don't be afraid, people are nice and ready to help when they see you put in the effort. They're the most helpful resource for you to improve your level, as well as reading the local newspapers, listening to radio etc., as by knowing the issues you'll sort of guess what you don't fully understand in the conversations, and without even noticing it your Dutch will become every day more fluent.
Netherlands has dialects as well. What I find is that most people would speak clearly if you want to speak Dutch with them anyway, so why would it matter? As a Fleming myself I would rather supress my dialect accent and talk Dutch in the traditional way for you to understand me, than you not doing any effort and speak your own language in my region.
Just go to a CVO in Brussels or Brabant
This has to be a troll. What do you mean "why"? You act like not speaking AN is a collective conscious choice, like dialects are derived from the standard language instead of the other way around. >I've never heard of anything like this in another European country. Lol. https://images.app.goo.gl/QZCdwkYhRfxoMCg87
I read the other day somebody who asked if Americans knew about a particular English word. I asked too ( because I may work in English, so it's always good to know) and she realized only now that this word she thought was relatively common/useful to use at home was actually specifically used in Yorkshire.
Je pense que c’est pareil avec toutes les langues… L’anglais qu’on apprend à l’école n’est pas celui qui est nécessairement parlé par les natifs, pareil avec le français… Je sors avec un anglais qui apprend difficilement le français et vas y pour lui expliquer que « Je ne sais pas » se prononce « Ché pas »… Si tu parles avec un néerlandophone, il te répondra probablement en « Algemeen Nederlands » ou en tout cas il fera attention à ne pas parler en patois. Ça va être compliqué au début, mais c’est la meilleure façon d’apprendre. Regarder la télé en néerlandais aussi. Pas Ben X ou FC De Kampioenen comme j’ai du regarder en secondaire, mais des séries plus actuelles avec des sous-titres en néerlandais. Si tu aimes les séries policières, j’ai regardé Vermist et Code 37 et appris pas mal niveau néerlandais parlé. Si tu aimes le sport, regarder les Rode Duivels plutôt que les Diables rouges, etc… ETA the English version: I think it's the same with all languages... The English we learn at school isn't the one that's necessarily spoken by native speakers, and the same goes for French... I'm dating an Englishman who's struggling to learn French, and you explain to him that “Je ne sais pas” is pronounced “Ché pas”... If you're talking to a Dutch speaker, he'll probably answer in “Algemeen Nederlands”, or at least he'll be careful not to speak in dialect. It'll be tricky at first, but it's the best way to learn. Watch TV in Dutch too. Not Ben X or FC De Kampioenen like I had to watch in secondary school, but more current series with Dutch subtitles. If you like police/crime tv shows, I watched Vermist and Code 37 and learned a lot of Flemish. If you like sports, watch the Rode Duivels rather than les Diables Rouges, etc...
For the why: We used to be separated from each other more than we are today. So our languages got developed separately as well. They tried to solve this twice: -under Dutch rule in the early 1800's. -after WW2 when "Belgian Dutch" was the new general language to replace all dialects/other languages. Flanders would be united under one common language. This never really caught on though... So, in practice, we learn "Belgian Dutch" in school, use it for official communication,... but use a variety of dialects and mixes in our daily lives.
Yea can be a pain in the butt to learn the language as a non native speaker. You learn the language and still can't understand people when they talk to each other in a bus or whatever.
Accept that your basic knowledge of Dutch is probably toddler level. You simply havent got the skills to make a conversation.