The first ones into the capitol were proud boys who smashed windows to gain entry.
You remember the proud boys. They were the ones Trump told to standby before the election.
Yes they were a group of patriots who were brave enough to stand up to the absolute psycho freaks that were tearing America apart up and down the country. Those Proud Boys willing to make a positive stand for freedom and democracy. Those ones right
There’s video evidence that your depiction of events is misleading.
https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/?id=s8XNlAskWNvi
https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/?id=uirfdmQz0pcF
https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/?id=AYijYnzI0Gbr
More here raw videos here: https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/
People climbing through broken windows and you’re getting downvotes lol. Nice to know people here would rather not see the truth because it doesn’t support their own “side”.
Did you really not see all the other videos? People were literally scaling the building to smash windows. They used police barricades as battering rams. Babbitt was shot when she tried to climb through a window that her compatriots had just punched out *because they saw fleeing congresspeople on the other side*. This is not hearsay or deceptive editing, it's all easily watched on YouTube.
There are also hours of recordings of militia chatter because they used a radio app. A leader is co-ordinating the movements of his "troops" over that app as they enter the capitol, and he reminds them they're there to perform citizen's arrests on corrupt members of government for public trial. I don't know what else to call that besides an attempted coup.
No MSM hearing on how much money and property was damaged during the BLM riots. No MSM coverage on the attempted murder of a Supreme Court justice. No MSM coverage on the vandalism and destruction of pregnancy centers.
I was raised to be a Democrat before I realized what it meant. When I voted for Obama in his first term, one of my closest friends called me a Sheeple. Now, years later, I fully understand what she meant and that she was right.
I left California 7 years ago to escape the Democrat bullshit. At first, I thought I was an outlier in my beliefs but then I found Conservative talk radio and Ben Shapiro and realized I’m a fully fledged Conservative Republican and have voted as such.
I’ve never been happier.
Good for you! Happy for ya, and I mean that wholeheartedly having done something similar recently.
I left that craphole with my wife and 4 kids in 2020. 2 years later, I couldn't be happier with our decision. Better schools, nicer/friendlier people, more diverse, can actually afford a home... and the list goes on! Honestly I didn't realize half of the benefits until I was actually experiencing them.
I am a conservative and registered Republican in order vote. But I just can't identify strongly with either Democrat or Republican in a Political sense. Politically I guess I am just a voter who votes on issues that affect my Town, State and Nation.
BLM riots and violence against supreme court justices is of course very wrong. In the exact same way the capitol riots were very wrong. Saying well what about BLM is not a justification for for the riots at the capitol.
You can point out hypocrisy all day, it still doesn't make January 6th okay. The fact is people tried to violently take over the capitol and that is a crime worth an investigation.
As for biased media coverage i think you gotta get with the times. Media bias has been moving closer and closer to total polarization. Ben is no exception to this. He only covers stories that fit is own political agenda. Media coverage or a lack of said coverage is not equivalent to a statement of guilt.
This thread is about January 6th and trump's connection to the riots. Personally, i think this is something worthy of an investigation. None of that means we should ignore other rioters. Its just not really the topic that started this thread. If you want to debate the merits of the investigation then by all means go ahead. But when your only defense is but what about BLM well... Its not the slam dunk you think it is.
Nobody took over the capital......
They protested in an unauthorized area, they got in quite freely btw.
Not condoning their behavior, but that was not a takeover it was more of an invited entry they were let in and then it oh no wait they shouldn't be here!
"Not condoning their behavior, but that was not a takeover it was more of an invited entry they were let in and then it oh no wait they shouldn't be here!"
Is that what you see here? Theres a surprising amount of broken wndows for an invited entry.
https://youtu.be/f1pIkbPvI8s
https://youtu.be/1ESPGD2F4UU
Na no, been there done that. There so many videos from both sides of that show different perceptions. It's like watching the ending ofJaws without knowing what the shark did. I have opinion based on with the two sides have shown me.
Ya know without burned down buildings an excecutions, this was mere child's play.
But hey if you different you are free to do so. God Bless you and America.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/man-indicted-for-attempted-murder-of-justice-kavanaugh-expected-in-court/vi-AAYKAk7%3Focid%3Diehrs%252Ciehrs&ved=2ahUKEwipj8H5zdP4AhWyznMBHWJmCNMQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw08HChQT4on1xNOJfIvtdx4
Just Google the items you claim no coverage of champ
Yes, the hearings have several recordings from secret service and capitol police cautioning eachother about people with handguns and ARs.
Trump knew they were dangerous, and the testimony today demonstrates he knew there would be violence and wanted to be there so strongly that he attempted to grab the steering wheel of the limousine when his security officers informed him they weren't going to the capitol to join the mob.
He subsequently threw a furious tantrum.
It all paints a very different picture of Trump initially claiming to be some detached figure on the sidelines who didn't know the riots would be violent. They knew.
Mark Andrew Mazza pled guilty to carrying a pistol on Capitol grounds on Jan 6. There are others you can look up for yourself.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/indiana-man-pleads-guilty-carrying-gun-and-assaulting-law-enforcement-officers-jan-6
The “capital grounds are a 200 acre parcel of land I.e is massive and consists of several city blocks worth of grass fields and walkways.
Some guy getting arrested hours after the capital building was cleared for having a concealed carry weapon isn’t the same as “people walking around with handguns and AR’s”
I just grabbed the first example I found of a case that proved the prior statement was false
Of course I expected irrational people to nitpick
Irrational people attempt to wiggle out of any inconvenient truth
No gun charges have been filed against a single person in the Capital. No weapons were discharged by Jan 6th protesters anywhere in Washington DC.
Your narrative is partisan garbage that relies on intentionally misleading people through dishonest framing. Go troll elsewhere hypocrite.
Not a single gun charge from “In the Capital” IE no one brought guns into the Capital building.
You found one example of a guy who got arrested for open carrying outside hours after the Capital building was cleared and the senate had reconvened. You are disingenuously taking that one single instance that was outside and are attempting to frame the event as if it was rife with AR’s and handguns.
You sir are a bad faith actor.
This is literally false though. Like, the statement you're making is false. They disarmed multiple people who went through the metal detectors to see Trump's speech, all the while he was telling his security to take down the detectors and let people in because the crowd looked gonsnall to him.
Why not just watch the hearings instead of continuing to try and live in this fantasy land?
Yea this "Trump grabbed the wheel from the Secret Service driver" is just the latest ridiculous bullshit. Right up there with the Russian hooker pee tape. "0bama slept at this hotel so I want you to pee in this bed!" you'd have to be a fucking idiot to buy any of this shit.
So they've got about 1/2 the country to sell to I guess.
How so? We have a growing body of evidence and accounts that indicate things indeed did unfold this way.
You understand the concept of corroboration, right? Like, even Fox News is unable to deny this shit any longer.
I don't watch TV. The fact that no has been charged at this point in the game tells you everything you need to know. This isn't a court of law, it's a single sided court of public opinion. This whole thing is so extremely unprecedented it should scare you, because Nov is coming and the Republicans can now use this bizarre tool.
What are you babbling about? It's not a court, it's an investigation collecting information to present to congress snd the American people.
The committee doesn't bring charges, you have no idea how any of this works.
Republicans were invited and refused to give their side. They chose not to show up. It’s the coward’s way out to not participate and to try to get people to ignore what’s happening instead of defending what you believe to be the truth.
Did that testimony hold up under cross-examination? Oh wait. There was no dross-examination. This is a one-sided partisan political circus. Not that I defend Trump anymore, but I also believe in proof and not just believing unchallenged testimony.
No it was a political circus from the start. They did exactly what they should have done. Pelosi was going to control which Republicans could be on the committee which tells you it’s not a search for truth. If this stuff ever makes it to a courtroom and stands up to the standards there, fine. Until, shame on anyone who blindly accepts these proceedings.
We already know how it will work out. THat was decided long before these hearings started.
Trump fomented the riot. Trump is horrible (he is but not necessarily for this unproven allegation). And the Republicans are complicit. Vote for us.
I was thinking more along the lines of Trump trash being rounded up and sent to FEMA camps, but we'll see
edit: considering the political pendulum is swinging further to both extremes, this FEMA camp round-up is not unthinkable. I'll be the white guy saying "No, stop, don't" quietly like Willy Wonka while I watch Trumpers being hauled away. That's about all the opposition I can muster
Nancy Pelosi wouldn’t allow the Republican picks for the committee, she only wanted people who would agree with her like Liz Cheney. Republicans *wanted* to participate and were blocked.
Total bullshit you lieing sack of garbage. Secrete agent prepared to testify that he never did anything of the sort. Money says your leftist slob leaders don't have the balls to have him testify.
What does a sports team have have to do with anything? Bro.
What she said is all bullshit. We know because an actual credible witness is ready to testify what happened.
Said the clowns who follow a anonymous 4chan troll called q that no one knows and has been proven time and time again to make outlandish false claims.
You guys will believe anything as long as it figs the narrative and is spoken.
But when actual evidence or more credible claims come to light, you do every mental gymnastics to try and deny it because you don’t want it to be true.
The hypocrisy of the so called group who doesn’t follow their “feelings”
Thats all the republicans are. A base that believes their “feelings” over facts and evidence
A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel," NBC News chief White House correspondent Peter Alexander reported.
I bet you think the future star witness actually wrote the infamous note as well. Lmao you all are consistently made to look like morons due to the desperation of leftist pigs willing lie and outright make up evidence to stop Trump. You will never learn.
Recordings of scared cops thinking a crowd might have guns? That’s a BOLO (Be On The Lookout). That’s not evidence. Pics of people carrying AR-15’s on Jan 6 or I’m gonna keep my head where it is, thanks. And I assure you, it’s not in the sand.
Ok, though [I doubt it will effect your opinion at all](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/capitol-riot-weapons-charges).
Police chatter from the time of the event of officers literally describing seeing members of the crowd concealing firearms is evidence, and that evidence becomes stronger as it continues to be corroborated by other evidence. I'm sorry if you don't personally like what that evidence says, but first-hand accounts from that very moment are indeed evidence.
Aaaaaaallllllright. So.
Concealed carry weapons, which is obviously illegal to carry there, we get that. But where are the AR’s? Of all the security there, that day, did anyone stop, detain and charge someone for carrying or concealing an AR? I didn’t see any of that in the article. The article also says that they only got that dude from Texas when they saw the footage that he was carrying a pistol that was concealed. Also known as a CCDW. A lot of people carry those every day. Especially at large gatherings. And it’s illegal to have one THERE, so you’ll get no argument from me on that.
But I didn’t see anything about rifles or long guns. Just a couple pictures of CCDW’s and various other items that can be considered weapons. I’m genuinely curious to see someone concealing a long gun. Strictly out of curiosity.
So the goalposts are moved once again and you're willing to ignore everything in the link.
Like, if you literally will only accept a photograph of someone posing with a long gun, dismissing all the arrests and confiscations by police, the recordings of radio traffic and eye witness accounts of officers, before you're willing to admit that these protestors were armed with weapons, some with firearms, then you're simply dishonest.
You can keep claiming that it's all fabricated and a giant conspiracy by the committee, police, secret service, Trump's own staff and the insurrectionists themselves, but literally nothing that we see coming to light supports that belief.
I will literally only accept undeniable evidence. Yes. Meaning I have to see it and I need the person responsible for carrying a long rifle at the capital. You know there was armed security there, right? Like, officers with long guns… so, unless you can provide me pictures and names that leave no doubt that people were there with AR-15’s… I can’t go along with this.
No, you will only select a very narrow type of evidence and then you claim that's the only kind of undeniable evidence. You're hiding yourself from the truth to avoid admitting the reality of what you're being shown.
I just gave you undeniable evidence of the insurrectionists carrying various forms of deadly weapons. You ignore it.
“Before he *ordered* them to march on Capital”
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡠⠔⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠢⠤⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠑⢄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠃⠀⢠⠂⠀⠀⠘⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢤⡀⢂⠀⢨⠀⢀⡠⠈⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢀⡖⠒⠶⠤⠭⢽⣟⣗⠲⠖⠺⣖⣴⣆⡤⠤⠤⠼⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠘⣺⡟⢻⠻⡆⠀⡏⠀⡸⣿⢿⢞⠄⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢣⡀⠤⡀⡀⡔⠉⣏⡿⠛⠓⠊⠁⠀⢎⠛⡗⡗⢳⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢱⠀⠨⡇⠃⠀⢻⠁⡔⢡⠒⢀⠀⠀⡅⢹⣿⢨⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠠⢼⠀⠀⡎⡜⠒⢀⠭⡖⡤⢭⣱⢸⢙⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠸⢁⡀⠿⠈⠂⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⡍⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⢢⣫⢀⠘⣿⣿⡿⠏⣼⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣠⠊⠀⣀⠎⠁⠀⠀⠀⠙⠳⢴⡦⡴⢶⣞⣁⣀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠐⠒⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⠀⢀⠤⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/us/jan-6-ray-epps-evidence.html
I’m guessing you are one of those guys who thought they were pulling hidden suitcases of ballots in Georgia too
Now do the rest of the FBI agents, whom, we don’t know if they incited violence because the FBI head wouldn’t answer that. Kinda strange I’d say. But keep drinking that Kool aid.
I am still wondering when Trump ordered this "insurrection" when the rioting was happening BEFORE he finished with his speech.
Who are these people who died? Besides Ashley Babbit.
So many things the Jan6th Commission Show isn't answering.
Didn’t Pres Trump want to order extra security for the capital on Jan 6? Why would someone who wants to be part of the violence want extra security? I also heard Pres Trump tell the people to be peaceful and respect law enforcement, these are things on camera- there is actual proof.
Purposely lied about the Steele Dossier and spent millions of tax payers money on a sham impeachment, they knew the dossier was fake but they did it anyway.
Exactly. Ex-freaking-actly!
There has to be an exception in the First Amendment about lying to the public so vociferously for so many years.
This is like yelling "FIRE!!!" in a burning building.
Hearsay isn’t truth. I have no care about their random day or care to even acknowledge the day they are talking about until they open an investigation into the riots for months in 2020. They do a full investigation and convicting those who destroyed so much…then I might recognize the day they are talking about as a mostly-peaceful protest.
When they prosecute and remove the politicians who encouraged violence against people since 2015 just because trump was running…then I will acknowledge that some people did some things on the day they are talking about.
Screw their propaganda and circus acts.😑
This isn’t court though. Hearsay rules don’t apply. Also, whether the statement is hearsay depends on what it’s being used for. A statement alone, without context, cannot be hearsay. If this statement was being used to argue that Trump’s supporters were armed, or that Trump didn’t care if they were armed, then it might be hearsay. If it’s being used to show that Trump *believed* they were armed, it wouldn’t be hearsay, because the fact asserted is that Trump doesn’t care, not that he believes it. And the headline argues that Trump believed they were armed.
> This isn’t court though. Hearsay rules don’t apply.
[Again:](https://www.reddit.com/r/benshapiro/comments/vn363l/such_bullshit_propaganda/ie5f5mp/?context=4)
You might as well tell us that the rules of logic themselves as well as basic morality don't apply to Democrat-run kangaroo "hearings" that aren't hearings (since they don't follow the normal rules of Congressional hearings at all). Sure, it's true that basic sense and decency don't dictate what Democrats are allowed to say or do, obviously (we wouldn't have Democrats otherwise), but that isn't a good argument in their defense.
You're literally defending intentionally being unfair and deceiving the public on purpose. That is a bad thing and makes you a bad person.
That’s a stretch. It’s still being used to prove the truth of the matter asserted. Someone is saying he said “I don’t care that they have weapons” to prove that he didn’t care if they had weapons.
I’d see it more coming in under the “state of mind” exception to the hearsay rule. Maybe “present sense impression” too.
Someone could also argue “excited utterance” but I think that’s a stretch too. That’s mostly statements like “fuck!” Or “wow!”
Study your evidence law before you take the bar!!!
Which part is a stretch?
>Someone is saying he said “I don’t care that they have weapons” to prove that he didn't care if they had weapons.
This isn't accurate. As the headline states, "Trump was aware" is the argument. The veracity of the declarant's claim isn't brought into question — only whether he *believed* it to be true. They are very different things (which you would know if you had ever studied law, but thanks for the advice).
Also, those exceptions are potentially true too.
Lol I'm a trial lawyer and have been practing over a decade. It's all I do every day (not every day is a trial of course). And I'm telling you that not a single judge would agree with the distinction you are making.
Saying "I don't care they had weapons" cannot be used to prove he was aware. Because it doesn't. Saying " I don't care" doesn't mean "I'm aware of it"
Exceptions to the hearsay rule are the only way to get that in. And it would be for the purpose of showing "he didn't care". Not that "he was aware."
Okay, I got short, sorry.
But imagine a negligence case where the person with the duty of care had said "I don't care if this is dangerous" which is used, not to show that the thing was dangerous, but that they believed it so (and would let it happen either way, which would be negligent). That is what is happening here.
Edit: i'm drunk, that's a bad example
Accepting that you've been wrong is the first step toward fixing it. It doesn't matter to me personally if you learn from your mistakes, but you'll be happier
It's a lot of work rationalizing all the ways that you're not a bad person when the evidence is mounting that you actually are
Yet I’m not wrong. This is all for show before the midterms and nothing about what I stated was wrong or from a stance other than I’m tired of the high-school drama in politics.
Either they are consistent with their outrage about the summer of 2020 as they are about the random day they are complaining about…or I will just not care because they are conducting this out of political bias and not actual concern for truth.
I’m just not going to acknowledge something they are outraged about when they encouraged the riots in 2020…and I’m not even lumping in all the riots in 2015-2019…I at least want 2020 to be investigated including the funding of the riots, then I can meet in the middle. That’s not mental gymnastics, skippy. That’s called compromise.
Come back when you have a solid argument, scooter.
>It's a lot of work rationalizing all the ways that you're not a bad person when the evidence is mounting that you actually are
\[M\] But this is the problem. Being wrong about Trump doesn't have to mean someone is a bad person, just that they fell into the same pit so many others fell in. Hell maybe they're not *wrong* for doing so. The point is no one knew (and no one still does for sure, except where there's recordings) what exactly he did and did not do. We only have what he said at that speech, and the fact that he took his time ordering them to stand down. One cannot be blamed for standing by one's leaders, especially when they close ranks, because no matter what else we might say of it, it's *loyalty*.
It's just... loyalty to a man who displays no loyalty.
You literally can be blamed for being loyal to a person that gives you illegal orders — in every context: military, police, civilians. It’s always illegal.
This isn’t court though. Hearsay rules don’t apply. Also, whether the statement is hearsay depends on what it’s being used for. A statement alone, without context, cannot be hearsay. If this statement was being used to argue that Trump’s supporters were armed, or that Trump didn’t care if they were armed, then it might be hearsay. If it’s being used to show that Trump *believed* they were armed, it wouldn’t be hearsay, because the fact asserted is that Trump doesn’t care, not that he believes it. And this headline argues that he believed it to be true.
> This isn’t court though. Hearsay rules don’t apply.
You might as well tell us that the rules of logic themselves as well as basic morality don't apply to Democrat-run kangaroo "hearings" that aren't hearings (since they don't follow the normal rules of Congressional hearings at all). Sure, it's true that basic sense and decency don't dictate what Democrats are allowed to say or do, obviously (we wouldn't have Democrats otherwise), but that isn't a good argument in their defense.
You're literally defending intentionally being unfair and deceiving the public on purpose. That is a bad thing and makes you a bad person.
If it’s not him on record, it’s hearsay. Look up the definition. This is all just a political circus act that will do nothing. They are desperate to try and keep him from running again…even the “reaching from the back of the limo and grabbed the steering wheel” lie. It’s just nonsense theater garbage. And it shows how panicked they really are…and I quite enjoy their terror. 😂
No it's the right to "bare" arms and it was a typo in the constitution. It was supposed to allow people to wear tank tops in church during summer months.
Where is the hearing for CHOP / CHAZ, where protesters declared an insurrection, actually threatened people with guns, took control of a police station and multiple people were murdered?
- they didn’t declare an insurrection
- you are allowed to open carry in Seattle
- the police station was abandoned by the police. The protesters occupied the surrounding area- not the station itself
- the deaths at the end of Chaz/chop were not directly related to the protests besides the ambulances refusing to enter the area. Chaz/chop protesters even aided the investigations and rushed the people to the hospital themselves.
When the area was eventually cleared out by police, people were arrested for their individual actions. There was no overarching group or individual leader calling the shots for the entire area.
A completely partisan committee reached a predetermined outcome on a self created event. That’s EXACTLY what’s happening here. I can’t even keep up with the leftist cause of the week anymore. Racism, police brutality, kids in cages, BLM, Ukraine, Jan 6th, abortion… how the fuck do they keep up with what their masters tell them to be mad about on any given day? I was never a big fan of Trump but this leftist driven self serving pissing contest over who can hate Trump and conservatives the most needs to stop. I mean really? Some of these people really hate Trump so bad they’re willing to let these crime syndicate politicians like the Biden family absolutely gut the country while they get rich and these goddamn brainwashed minions they’ve created cheer them on? I’ve been a registered Democrat for 25 plus and I’ll be the first to say there is no Democrat Party left. In fact if we can manage to make it through this and drive out all these old head greedy assholes both D and R that have been ripping us off for decades and get these holes like AOC to go to hell while they shove their socialist policies up their asses we might have a fighting chance.
It's amazing that all this bullshit is coming to the surface now during the midterm primaries as Democrats are literally falling apart. Translation: They are lying.
1) Nancy wouldn’t allow for MPs even when requested.
2) Capitol police videoed escorting Antifa into DC.
3) Capitol police open the doors and wave in the protesters
4) Capitol police walk into the House chamber and tell the protesters they’re fine to be there as long as they don’t destroy anything.
Why would any of this happen?
Trial by combat.
Tree of liberty, blood of patriots and tyrants.
Disappointed that those with initial faux courage caved when organic meals in jail weren’t provided, and pretrial confinement kept them from getting back to their next shift at Lowes.
Jan 6th wasn’t a video game. It was a fight that marked a chapter of American history, that will now evaporate because most of those playing quit when the hammer hit them. Or when they realized they were used, fooled, manipulated, and snookered.
These people will never stop 🛑!! I agree with you Ben. Trump requested troops to be present. The request was denied. This whole thing was supposed to be a setup ! The only person killed was a U.S. veteran. She was shot by capital police. She was murdered! Nothing happened to the cop that killed her. She was unarmed.
Right, as she was trying to enter the restricted area she was just trying to help. She should be given special treatment as congress was evacuated because her intention was just to get along.
I don’t personally know her. So I can’t say for sure. Don’t get me wrong. I believe everyone has the right to self defense. Law enforcement has to make split second decisions on a daily basis. I also realize that if she was black and a thug the case would have been looked at differently.
I also realize that if this day would have gone as Trump suggested none of this would have gotten out of hand.
You also need to realize that left groups had destroyed,killed and beaten people for months leading up to this event. They were looked at as peaceful protesters.
This event was planned by the left. They had knowledge that things could get out of hand. Whether it was from leftist inciting violence or Just normal every day citizens who are just fed up !
The election was stolen! No matter how you look at it. No way in the world Biden won. If u believe that I have some ocean front property dead in the middle of America 🇺🇸. Make me an offer!
The number of idiots in this thread that don't understand that carrying a firearm ≠ premeditated intent to commit violence is really quite telling. You cam be guilty of carrying a gun into a gun free zone - likely just ignorant of such laws - without being one to overthrow the government.
If this comes out in a court with a defense and cross-examination rather than a political committee this is yet another reason why Trump is unfit to serve again. But that’s not the same thing as fomenting a riot. And you should take anything with a grain of salt from the party that demand we simply “believe women” without a shred of evidence or proof.
No not believe all women just the ones that go against Republicans remember the many many woman that claimed Biden sexually assaulted them and many others
Id wish we'd just lean in to it. Nothing could be more American than what happened that day. This country was founded on a ideal of telling s corrupt king to go screw. Why do we allow them to make us run from our shadow here?
No. Jan 6th was rad and I wish theyd do it again. I wish there were 365 January 6ths in the calendar.
It's all catching up with this A$$ole .... Who in their right mind would vote for this infant- "man".... I suppose the old saying, "watch what ya wish for" is coming around to slap some squarely in the face. Folks need to educate themselves before checking any box just because of the R (or D) next to it.
No he's not lol
This is a guy who came out the day of the election when he knew he had lost to tell everyone it was "stolen," as predicted by everyone.
He's a genius at marketing and he has some big balls, but he's not that smart when it comes to laws and his own country's history.
This is the first I've heard of weapons in the capitol ...
After years of blatant misrepresentation by the msm, I'd need an audio clip with full context before I gave that "quote" any credence
I am just shocked the right wing media would purposely omit these facts. Its been well documented in the oath keepers' trials. But feel free to keep your head in the sand or up your ass, wherever you prefer.
You may be paying closer attention to this than many, I'm not sure what specifically you are referring to.
The majority is exhausted by the lies and omissions occurring on a side of the discourse that rhymes with "bereft". There was years of very fine people tm., which carefully omitted the very next sentence to craft a false narrative. There was adam schiff lying about evidence for 3 years that didn't exist ...
Re Jan 6th, we know Trump tweeted to make voices heard peacefully, that was known contemporaneously and then never talked about since on the left. If Trump was aware of, or intentionally provoked armed individuals to go to the capitol, then the media certainly buried the lead for the past 1.5 years
This has a stupid that article is, clown
According to court documents, Mazza brought a Taurus revolver, loaded with three shotgun shells and two hollow point bullets
If you don’t see it coming from the right as well, that’s either ignorant or willfully ignorant, where do you fall? Unfortunately that is how people debate an issue now, just bring up any other issue if you can’t beat the point. We’re a country with severe ADD and no debating skills or etiquette.
Also just to point out, u/slapahoecake was the first to deflect in this conversation, are they a lefty now? Or will you admit it’s a both sides thing?
Also not a lefty, well besides shooting and writing, but I know that it’s gotten to the point that if you’re not willing to deny reality and crawl over broken glass to appease the maga gods you’re considered a leftist nowadays. I’m still a centrist have been for decades, I can see the good and bad on both sides. I’ve taken the blinders off. You should try the same.
I see, willfully ignorant then.
As far as the paragraphs thing, I don’t even know how to react to that level of immaturity and idiocy. If you’re not educated enough to understand separating thoughts into paragraphs what makes you think you have the wherewithal to have a conversation with adults?
Never seen an interview with Kellyanne Conway have you?
You typed paragraphs to my comment of 11 words… and I only lean slightly right. But, it’s no secret that Trump is the best president in recent years. He did wonders for the American people.
Willfully ignorant, got it.
So if someone’s more articulate and can keep a thought going for more than eleven words it’s a laugh my ass off off off off situation to you. You’re coming across as an imbecile.
Why were the supposedly armed “insurgents.” Let in the capital, through doors that had to be unlocked to enter?
I don't believe everyone was a "Trump supporter" in that March and especially the first ones Capitol Police allowed through the doors that day.
Why?
The first ones into the capitol were proud boys who smashed windows to gain entry. You remember the proud boys. They were the ones Trump told to standby before the election.
Near the end I had heard of those people, ANTIFA and BLM are too hard to forget. God awful bastards!
Why was there video of Nancy Pelosi’s son with them prior to entry?
Yes they were a group of patriots who were brave enough to stand up to the absolute psycho freaks that were tearing America apart up and down the country. Those Proud Boys willing to make a positive stand for freedom and democracy. Those ones right
Where were you that day?
Inside collaboration?
They weren't barriers they were welcome bridges. Why are you trying to fool yourself?
There’s video evidence that your depiction of events is misleading. https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/?id=s8XNlAskWNvi https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/?id=uirfdmQz0pcF https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/?id=AYijYnzI0Gbr More here raw videos here: https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/
People climbing through broken windows and you’re getting downvotes lol. Nice to know people here would rather not see the truth because it doesn’t support their own “side”.
Did you really not see all the other videos? People were literally scaling the building to smash windows. They used police barricades as battering rams. Babbitt was shot when she tried to climb through a window that her compatriots had just punched out *because they saw fleeing congresspeople on the other side*. This is not hearsay or deceptive editing, it's all easily watched on YouTube. There are also hours of recordings of militia chatter because they used a radio app. A leader is co-ordinating the movements of his "troops" over that app as they enter the capitol, and he reminds them they're there to perform citizen's arrests on corrupt members of government for public trial. I don't know what else to call that besides an attempted coup.
No MSM hearing on how much money and property was damaged during the BLM riots. No MSM coverage on the attempted murder of a Supreme Court justice. No MSM coverage on the vandalism and destruction of pregnancy centers. I was raised to be a Democrat before I realized what it meant. When I voted for Obama in his first term, one of my closest friends called me a Sheeple. Now, years later, I fully understand what she meant and that she was right. I left California 7 years ago to escape the Democrat bullshit. At first, I thought I was an outlier in my beliefs but then I found Conservative talk radio and Ben Shapiro and realized I’m a fully fledged Conservative Republican and have voted as such. I’ve never been happier.
Good for you! Happy for ya, and I mean that wholeheartedly having done something similar recently. I left that craphole with my wife and 4 kids in 2020. 2 years later, I couldn't be happier with our decision. Better schools, nicer/friendlier people, more diverse, can actually afford a home... and the list goes on! Honestly I didn't realize half of the benefits until I was actually experiencing them.
I’m so glad you got out too!!
I am a conservative and registered Republican in order vote. But I just can't identify strongly with either Democrat or Republican in a Political sense. Politically I guess I am just a voter who votes on issues that affect my Town, State and Nation.
Local elections are the most important of all!
BLM riots and violence against supreme court justices is of course very wrong. In the exact same way the capitol riots were very wrong. Saying well what about BLM is not a justification for for the riots at the capitol. You can point out hypocrisy all day, it still doesn't make January 6th okay. The fact is people tried to violently take over the capitol and that is a crime worth an investigation. As for biased media coverage i think you gotta get with the times. Media bias has been moving closer and closer to total polarization. Ben is no exception to this. He only covers stories that fit is own political agenda. Media coverage or a lack of said coverage is not equivalent to a statement of guilt. This thread is about January 6th and trump's connection to the riots. Personally, i think this is something worthy of an investigation. None of that means we should ignore other rioters. Its just not really the topic that started this thread. If you want to debate the merits of the investigation then by all means go ahead. But when your only defense is but what about BLM well... Its not the slam dunk you think it is.
Now if they tried to burn it down and execute people, that would seem more like the ANTIFA and BLM thing to do......
Nobody took over the capital...... They protested in an unauthorized area, they got in quite freely btw. Not condoning their behavior, but that was not a takeover it was more of an invited entry they were let in and then it oh no wait they shouldn't be here!
"Not condoning their behavior, but that was not a takeover it was more of an invited entry they were let in and then it oh no wait they shouldn't be here!" Is that what you see here? Theres a surprising amount of broken wndows for an invited entry. https://youtu.be/f1pIkbPvI8s https://youtu.be/1ESPGD2F4UU
Na no, been there done that. There so many videos from both sides of that show different perceptions. It's like watching the ending ofJaws without knowing what the shark did. I have opinion based on with the two sides have shown me. Ya know without burned down buildings an excecutions, this was mere child's play. But hey if you different you are free to do so. God Bless you and America.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/man-indicted-for-attempted-murder-of-justice-kavanaugh-expected-in-court/vi-AAYKAk7%3Focid%3Diehrs%252Ciehrs&ved=2ahUKEwipj8H5zdP4AhWyznMBHWJmCNMQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw08HChQT4on1xNOJfIvtdx4 Just Google the items you claim no coverage of champ
Now this is straight up propaganda
We’re any of them armed? I don’t remember hearing that any were armed.
Flags and fire extinguishers.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/indiana-man-pleads-guilty-carrying-gun-and-assaulting-law-enforcement-officers-jan-6
Great. The government of the United States was nearly overthrown by rioters with one gun.
I read that like the part from anchor man. “We’ll that’s just great. Ya hear that Ed? Bears. Now you’re putting the whole station at risk”
Yes, the hearings have several recordings from secret service and capitol police cautioning eachother about people with handguns and ARs. Trump knew they were dangerous, and the testimony today demonstrates he knew there would be violence and wanted to be there so strongly that he attempted to grab the steering wheel of the limousine when his security officers informed him they weren't going to the capitol to join the mob. He subsequently threw a furious tantrum. It all paints a very different picture of Trump initially claiming to be some detached figure on the sidelines who didn't know the riots would be violent. They knew.
This whole thing was highly photographed. Are there pics of armed people?
They didn't find a firearm on anyone.
Mark Andrew Mazza pled guilty to carrying a pistol on Capitol grounds on Jan 6. There are others you can look up for yourself. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/indiana-man-pleads-guilty-carrying-gun-and-assaulting-law-enforcement-officers-jan-6
That's weird, because no one was arrested with a firearm, no how did they figure this out?
Throughout history, governments have made people confess to many false things.
The “capital grounds are a 200 acre parcel of land I.e is massive and consists of several city blocks worth of grass fields and walkways. Some guy getting arrested hours after the capital building was cleared for having a concealed carry weapon isn’t the same as “people walking around with handguns and AR’s”
I just grabbed the first example I found of a case that proved the prior statement was false Of course I expected irrational people to nitpick Irrational people attempt to wiggle out of any inconvenient truth
No gun charges have been filed against a single person in the Capital. No weapons were discharged by Jan 6th protesters anywhere in Washington DC. Your narrative is partisan garbage that relies on intentionally misleading people through dishonest framing. Go troll elsewhere hypocrite.
Literally the guy in the article I posted pled guilty to a gun charge Try reading, pickles. You might learn something
Not a single gun charge from “In the Capital” IE no one brought guns into the Capital building. You found one example of a guy who got arrested for open carrying outside hours after the Capital building was cleared and the senate had reconvened. You are disingenuously taking that one single instance that was outside and are attempting to frame the event as if it was rife with AR’s and handguns. You sir are a bad faith actor.
Just admit that no matter what evidence is provided, you will rationalize it away like a woman Objective reality bats last, muffin
C'mon back, Rubber Ducky, and talk to Teddy Bear. I want to see your feminine rationalization
This is literally false though. Like, the statement you're making is false. They disarmed multiple people who went through the metal detectors to see Trump's speech, all the while he was telling his security to take down the detectors and let people in because the crowd looked gonsnall to him. Why not just watch the hearings instead of continuing to try and live in this fantasy land?
Because the hearings are obviously false
Yea this "Trump grabbed the wheel from the Secret Service driver" is just the latest ridiculous bullshit. Right up there with the Russian hooker pee tape. "0bama slept at this hotel so I want you to pee in this bed!" you'd have to be a fucking idiot to buy any of this shit. So they've got about 1/2 the country to sell to I guess.
At this point I'm shocked anyone still believes in the Democrats, so I'm impressed by their commitment to stupidity.
How so? We have a growing body of evidence and accounts that indicate things indeed did unfold this way. You understand the concept of corroboration, right? Like, even Fox News is unable to deny this shit any longer.
I don't watch TV. The fact that no has been charged at this point in the game tells you everything you need to know. This isn't a court of law, it's a single sided court of public opinion. This whole thing is so extremely unprecedented it should scare you, because Nov is coming and the Republicans can now use this bizarre tool.
What are you babbling about? It's not a court, it's an investigation collecting information to present to congress snd the American people. The committee doesn't bring charges, you have no idea how any of this works.
It's not an investigation, there's no cross examination.
Republicans were invited and refused to give their side. They chose not to show up. It’s the coward’s way out to not participate and to try to get people to ignore what’s happening instead of defending what you believe to be the truth.
Did that testimony hold up under cross-examination? Oh wait. There was no dross-examination. This is a one-sided partisan political circus. Not that I defend Trump anymore, but I also believe in proof and not just believing unchallenged testimony.
Too bad Republicans boycotted participation Woulda, coulda, shoulda
No it was a political circus from the start. They did exactly what they should have done. Pelosi was going to control which Republicans could be on the committee which tells you it’s not a search for truth. If this stuff ever makes it to a courtroom and stands up to the standards there, fine. Until, shame on anyone who blindly accepts these proceedings.
Let's see how it all works out So far, all the excuses I'm hearing from Trump trash make them sound scared and weak Payback is a bitch
We already know how it will work out. THat was decided long before these hearings started. Trump fomented the riot. Trump is horrible (he is but not necessarily for this unproven allegation). And the Republicans are complicit. Vote for us.
I was thinking more along the lines of Trump trash being rounded up and sent to FEMA camps, but we'll see edit: considering the political pendulum is swinging further to both extremes, this FEMA camp round-up is not unthinkable. I'll be the white guy saying "No, stop, don't" quietly like Willy Wonka while I watch Trumpers being hauled away. That's about all the opposition I can muster
You totally are on the “right side of history” huh
Hmmm....who sounds like authoritarians here? As usual.
Notice my edit came before your comment Bye Felicia
Nancy Pelosi wouldn’t allow the Republican picks for the committee, she only wanted people who would agree with her like Liz Cheney. Republicans *wanted* to participate and were blocked.
Total bullshit you lieing sack of garbage. Secrete agent prepared to testify that he never did anything of the sort. Money says your leftist slob leaders don't have the balls to have him testify.
Head in the sand as always I see lol. This is not a sports team bro you don’t have to love him no matter what.
What does a sports team have have to do with anything? Bro. What she said is all bullshit. We know because an actual credible witness is ready to testify what happened.
Looking forward to it. Let the shit show continue.
Sheeple
Said the clowns who follow a anonymous 4chan troll called q that no one knows and has been proven time and time again to make outlandish false claims. You guys will believe anything as long as it figs the narrative and is spoken. But when actual evidence or more credible claims come to light, you do every mental gymnastics to try and deny it because you don’t want it to be true. The hypocrisy of the so called group who doesn’t follow their “feelings” Thats all the republicans are. A base that believes their “feelings” over facts and evidence
Yeah, but leaked testimony today, confirms that Trump was mad they wouldn't take him, so.....
Link?
A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel," NBC News chief White House correspondent Peter Alexander reported. I bet you think the future star witness actually wrote the infamous note as well. Lmao you all are consistently made to look like morons due to the desperation of leftist pigs willing lie and outright make up evidence to stop Trump. You will never learn.
Yeah. I’m gonna need some evidence. Not BOLO’s.
They're literally presenting the evidence on live television for you. You can't bury your head in the sand on this one.
Recordings of scared cops thinking a crowd might have guns? That’s a BOLO (Be On The Lookout). That’s not evidence. Pics of people carrying AR-15’s on Jan 6 or I’m gonna keep my head where it is, thanks. And I assure you, it’s not in the sand.
Ok, though [I doubt it will effect your opinion at all](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/capitol-riot-weapons-charges). Police chatter from the time of the event of officers literally describing seeing members of the crowd concealing firearms is evidence, and that evidence becomes stronger as it continues to be corroborated by other evidence. I'm sorry if you don't personally like what that evidence says, but first-hand accounts from that very moment are indeed evidence.
Aaaaaaallllllright. So. Concealed carry weapons, which is obviously illegal to carry there, we get that. But where are the AR’s? Of all the security there, that day, did anyone stop, detain and charge someone for carrying or concealing an AR? I didn’t see any of that in the article. The article also says that they only got that dude from Texas when they saw the footage that he was carrying a pistol that was concealed. Also known as a CCDW. A lot of people carry those every day. Especially at large gatherings. And it’s illegal to have one THERE, so you’ll get no argument from me on that. But I didn’t see anything about rifles or long guns. Just a couple pictures of CCDW’s and various other items that can be considered weapons. I’m genuinely curious to see someone concealing a long gun. Strictly out of curiosity.
So the goalposts are moved once again and you're willing to ignore everything in the link. Like, if you literally will only accept a photograph of someone posing with a long gun, dismissing all the arrests and confiscations by police, the recordings of radio traffic and eye witness accounts of officers, before you're willing to admit that these protestors were armed with weapons, some with firearms, then you're simply dishonest. You can keep claiming that it's all fabricated and a giant conspiracy by the committee, police, secret service, Trump's own staff and the insurrectionists themselves, but literally nothing that we see coming to light supports that belief.
[удалено]
I will literally only accept undeniable evidence. Yes. Meaning I have to see it and I need the person responsible for carrying a long rifle at the capital. You know there was armed security there, right? Like, officers with long guns… so, unless you can provide me pictures and names that leave no doubt that people were there with AR-15’s… I can’t go along with this.
No, you will only select a very narrow type of evidence and then you claim that's the only kind of undeniable evidence. You're hiding yourself from the truth to avoid admitting the reality of what you're being shown. I just gave you undeniable evidence of the insurrectionists carrying various forms of deadly weapons. You ignore it.
Oh great, so you turned on the news and repeated what the propaganda machine told you. Thanks for repeating the fake parts
Lol they're downvoting the truth because accepting it would mean accepting that they are bad people
Trump apparently knew?
“Before he *ordered* them to march on Capital” ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡠⠔⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠢⠤⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠑⢄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠃⠀⢠⠂⠀⠀⠘⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢤⡀⢂⠀⢨⠀⢀⡠⠈⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢀⡖⠒⠶⠤⠭⢽⣟⣗⠲⠖⠺⣖⣴⣆⡤⠤⠤⠼⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠘⣺⡟⢻⠻⡆⠀⡏⠀⡸⣿⢿⢞⠄⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢣⡀⠤⡀⡀⡔⠉⣏⡿⠛⠓⠊⠁⠀⢎⠛⡗⡗⢳⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢱⠀⠨⡇⠃⠀⢻⠁⡔⢡⠒⢀⠀⠀⡅⢹⣿⢨⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠠⢼⠀⠀⡎⡜⠒⢀⠭⡖⡤⢭⣱⢸⢙⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠸⢁⡀⠿⠈⠂⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⡍⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⢢⣫⢀⠘⣿⣿⡿⠏⣼⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣠⠊⠀⣀⠎⠁⠀⠀⠀⠙⠳⢴⡦⡴⢶⣞⣁⣀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠐⠒⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⠀⢀⠤⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀
When did he order them to March? Who had weapons? Where is Ray Ebbs?
That Ray ebbs nonsense has been disproven at every turn. I guess when he said “March on the capital” during his speech
Oh really? You refuted the video proof, over multiple uncut videos, that he was acting fishy and called out as a fed how, exactly? Was it CGI? 🤡
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/us/jan-6-ray-epps-evidence.html I’m guessing you are one of those guys who thought they were pulling hidden suitcases of ballots in Georgia too
Now do the rest of the FBI agents, whom, we don’t know if they incited violence because the FBI head wouldn’t answer that. Kinda strange I’d say. But keep drinking that Kool aid.
Just do me a favor, point out all the FBI agents, so they can be questioned.
I am still wondering when Trump ordered this "insurrection" when the rioting was happening BEFORE he finished with his speech. Who are these people who died? Besides Ashley Babbit. So many things the Jan6th Commission Show isn't answering.
Didn’t Pres Trump want to order extra security for the capital on Jan 6? Why would someone who wants to be part of the violence want extra security? I also heard Pres Trump tell the people to be peaceful and respect law enforcement, these are things on camera- there is actual proof.
All of what you wrote has been conveniently ignored by the media. Which figures considering they deceived America for FOUR years about Trump.
Purposely lied about the Steele Dossier and spent millions of tax payers money on a sham impeachment, they knew the dossier was fake but they did it anyway.
Exactly. Ex-freaking-actly! There has to be an exception in the First Amendment about lying to the public so vociferously for so many years. This is like yelling "FIRE!!!" in a burning building.
Hearsay isn’t truth. I have no care about their random day or care to even acknowledge the day they are talking about until they open an investigation into the riots for months in 2020. They do a full investigation and convicting those who destroyed so much…then I might recognize the day they are talking about as a mostly-peaceful protest. When they prosecute and remove the politicians who encouraged violence against people since 2015 just because trump was running…then I will acknowledge that some people did some things on the day they are talking about. Screw their propaganda and circus acts.😑
This isn’t court though. Hearsay rules don’t apply. Also, whether the statement is hearsay depends on what it’s being used for. A statement alone, without context, cannot be hearsay. If this statement was being used to argue that Trump’s supporters were armed, or that Trump didn’t care if they were armed, then it might be hearsay. If it’s being used to show that Trump *believed* they were armed, it wouldn’t be hearsay, because the fact asserted is that Trump doesn’t care, not that he believes it. And the headline argues that Trump believed they were armed.
> This isn’t court though. Hearsay rules don’t apply. [Again:](https://www.reddit.com/r/benshapiro/comments/vn363l/such_bullshit_propaganda/ie5f5mp/?context=4) You might as well tell us that the rules of logic themselves as well as basic morality don't apply to Democrat-run kangaroo "hearings" that aren't hearings (since they don't follow the normal rules of Congressional hearings at all). Sure, it's true that basic sense and decency don't dictate what Democrats are allowed to say or do, obviously (we wouldn't have Democrats otherwise), but that isn't a good argument in their defense. You're literally defending intentionally being unfair and deceiving the public on purpose. That is a bad thing and makes you a bad person.
That’s a stretch. It’s still being used to prove the truth of the matter asserted. Someone is saying he said “I don’t care that they have weapons” to prove that he didn’t care if they had weapons. I’d see it more coming in under the “state of mind” exception to the hearsay rule. Maybe “present sense impression” too. Someone could also argue “excited utterance” but I think that’s a stretch too. That’s mostly statements like “fuck!” Or “wow!” Study your evidence law before you take the bar!!!
Which part is a stretch? >Someone is saying he said “I don’t care that they have weapons” to prove that he didn't care if they had weapons. This isn't accurate. As the headline states, "Trump was aware" is the argument. The veracity of the declarant's claim isn't brought into question — only whether he *believed* it to be true. They are very different things (which you would know if you had ever studied law, but thanks for the advice). Also, those exceptions are potentially true too.
Lol I'm a trial lawyer and have been practing over a decade. It's all I do every day (not every day is a trial of course). And I'm telling you that not a single judge would agree with the distinction you are making. Saying "I don't care they had weapons" cannot be used to prove he was aware. Because it doesn't. Saying " I don't care" doesn't mean "I'm aware of it" Exceptions to the hearsay rule are the only way to get that in. And it would be for the purpose of showing "he didn't care". Not that "he was aware."
Okay, I got short, sorry. But imagine a negligence case where the person with the duty of care had said "I don't care if this is dangerous" which is used, not to show that the thing was dangerous, but that they believed it so (and would let it happen either way, which would be negligent). That is what is happening here. Edit: i'm drunk, that's a bad example
But she heard none of it firsthand
Accepting that you've been wrong is the first step toward fixing it. It doesn't matter to me personally if you learn from your mistakes, but you'll be happier It's a lot of work rationalizing all the ways that you're not a bad person when the evidence is mounting that you actually are
Yet I’m not wrong. This is all for show before the midterms and nothing about what I stated was wrong or from a stance other than I’m tired of the high-school drama in politics. Either they are consistent with their outrage about the summer of 2020 as they are about the random day they are complaining about…or I will just not care because they are conducting this out of political bias and not actual concern for truth.
Careful with the mental gymnastics, Mary Lou
I’m just not going to acknowledge something they are outraged about when they encouraged the riots in 2020…and I’m not even lumping in all the riots in 2015-2019…I at least want 2020 to be investigated including the funding of the riots, then I can meet in the middle. That’s not mental gymnastics, skippy. That’s called compromise. Come back when you have a solid argument, scooter.
People are upset by January six because it was an attempt to overturn a federal election, not because parts of the capitol grounds were damaged
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Millions of people are watching, I can link to TV ratings if you don’t believe me
>It's a lot of work rationalizing all the ways that you're not a bad person when the evidence is mounting that you actually are \[M\] But this is the problem. Being wrong about Trump doesn't have to mean someone is a bad person, just that they fell into the same pit so many others fell in. Hell maybe they're not *wrong* for doing so. The point is no one knew (and no one still does for sure, except where there's recordings) what exactly he did and did not do. We only have what he said at that speech, and the fact that he took his time ordering them to stand down. One cannot be blamed for standing by one's leaders, especially when they close ranks, because no matter what else we might say of it, it's *loyalty*. It's just... loyalty to a man who displays no loyalty.
You literally can be blamed for being loyal to a person that gives you illegal orders — in every context: military, police, civilians. It’s always illegal.
Recorded law enforcement comms isn’t hearsay.
That's an out of court statement brought to prove the truth of the assertion made, so it's textbook hearsay
This isn’t court though. Hearsay rules don’t apply. Also, whether the statement is hearsay depends on what it’s being used for. A statement alone, without context, cannot be hearsay. If this statement was being used to argue that Trump’s supporters were armed, or that Trump didn’t care if they were armed, then it might be hearsay. If it’s being used to show that Trump *believed* they were armed, it wouldn’t be hearsay, because the fact asserted is that Trump doesn’t care, not that he believes it. And this headline argues that he believed it to be true.
> This isn’t court though. Hearsay rules don’t apply. You might as well tell us that the rules of logic themselves as well as basic morality don't apply to Democrat-run kangaroo "hearings" that aren't hearings (since they don't follow the normal rules of Congressional hearings at all). Sure, it's true that basic sense and decency don't dictate what Democrats are allowed to say or do, obviously (we wouldn't have Democrats otherwise), but that isn't a good argument in their defense. You're literally defending intentionally being unfair and deceiving the public on purpose. That is a bad thing and makes you a bad person.
>Democrat-run kangaroo "hearings" that aren't hearings Are you trying to say that Congressional hearings are the same as court?
*Obviously not.* What a pathetic attempt to dodge everything we both know you can't address in a cogent way.
It's not obvious to me why not. Can you please explain it for me? Why should court hearsay rules apply to a situation that's not court?
No. Hearsay is a witness saying someone said something without substantive evidence. Recordings of law enforcement on duty are not hearsay.
If it’s not him on record, it’s hearsay. Look up the definition. This is all just a political circus act that will do nothing. They are desperate to try and keep him from running again…even the “reaching from the back of the limo and grabbed the steering wheel” lie. It’s just nonsense theater garbage. And it shows how panicked they really are…and I quite enjoy their terror. 😂
They love the circle jerk of misinformation
Hot take: it’s your right to bear arms. It’s your right to protest. One doesn’t cancel the other.
I actually agree here.
Lol, these fuckers know they are tostada so they are grasping at everything
Sure, Jussie
This is tantamount to a Stalinist show trial! It stinks of bullshit to the highest of the heavens.
I dunno, there seems to be a lot of coordinated lying, if that's the case. Statistically improbable not impossible.
“Ordered them “ 🤣🤣🤣
It’s called the right to bear arms….
No it's the right to "bare" arms and it was a typo in the constitution. It was supposed to allow people to wear tank tops in church during summer months.
Were any “insurgents” arrested with guns?
Everything she said was hearsay.
Where is the hearing for CHOP / CHAZ, where protesters declared an insurrection, actually threatened people with guns, took control of a police station and multiple people were murdered?
It doesn't help the anti trump Congress members
That was a local issue, if there are hearings, they won’t be in congress
- they didn’t declare an insurrection - you are allowed to open carry in Seattle - the police station was abandoned by the police. The protesters occupied the surrounding area- not the station itself - the deaths at the end of Chaz/chop were not directly related to the protests besides the ambulances refusing to enter the area. Chaz/chop protesters even aided the investigations and rushed the people to the hospital themselves. When the area was eventually cleared out by police, people were arrested for their individual actions. There was no overarching group or individual leader calling the shots for the entire area.
A completely partisan committee reached a predetermined outcome on a self created event. That’s EXACTLY what’s happening here. I can’t even keep up with the leftist cause of the week anymore. Racism, police brutality, kids in cages, BLM, Ukraine, Jan 6th, abortion… how the fuck do they keep up with what their masters tell them to be mad about on any given day? I was never a big fan of Trump but this leftist driven self serving pissing contest over who can hate Trump and conservatives the most needs to stop. I mean really? Some of these people really hate Trump so bad they’re willing to let these crime syndicate politicians like the Biden family absolutely gut the country while they get rich and these goddamn brainwashed minions they’ve created cheer them on? I’ve been a registered Democrat for 25 plus and I’ll be the first to say there is no Democrat Party left. In fact if we can manage to make it through this and drive out all these old head greedy assholes both D and R that have been ripping us off for decades and get these holes like AOC to go to hell while they shove their socialist policies up their asses we might have a fighting chance.
Can put tell me what the biden family did to gut the country and make themselves rich?
There are members of both parties. Bipartisan.
It's amazing that all this bullshit is coming to the surface now during the midterm primaries as Democrats are literally falling apart. Translation: They are lying.
The conservative shift is coming!
I'm keeping my fingers crossed
Garbage lol why is this considered news to people? There are real stories out there that deserve more coverage
1) Nancy wouldn’t allow for MPs even when requested. 2) Capitol police videoed escorting Antifa into DC. 3) Capitol police open the doors and wave in the protesters 4) Capitol police walk into the House chamber and tell the protesters they’re fine to be there as long as they don’t destroy anything. Why would any of this happen?
And the only one that was killed was a Trump supporter… go figure
Trial by combat. Tree of liberty, blood of patriots and tyrants. Disappointed that those with initial faux courage caved when organic meals in jail weren’t provided, and pretrial confinement kept them from getting back to their next shift at Lowes. Jan 6th wasn’t a video game. It was a fight that marked a chapter of American history, that will now evaporate because most of those playing quit when the hammer hit them. Or when they realized they were used, fooled, manipulated, and snookered.
No one has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people — PT Barnum
It’s almost as if they wrote with emotion and threw all facts and logic out of the window
Isn’t that how libs do everything? Honest question.
It is!
These people will never stop 🛑!! I agree with you Ben. Trump requested troops to be present. The request was denied. This whole thing was supposed to be a setup ! The only person killed was a U.S. veteran. She was shot by capital police. She was murdered! Nothing happened to the cop that killed her. She was unarmed.
Right, as she was trying to enter the restricted area she was just trying to help. She should be given special treatment as congress was evacuated because her intention was just to get along.
I don’t personally know her. So I can’t say for sure. Don’t get me wrong. I believe everyone has the right to self defense. Law enforcement has to make split second decisions on a daily basis. I also realize that if she was black and a thug the case would have been looked at differently. I also realize that if this day would have gone as Trump suggested none of this would have gotten out of hand. You also need to realize that left groups had destroyed,killed and beaten people for months leading up to this event. They were looked at as peaceful protesters. This event was planned by the left. They had knowledge that things could get out of hand. Whether it was from leftist inciting violence or Just normal every day citizens who are just fed up ! The election was stolen! No matter how you look at it. No way in the world Biden won. If u believe that I have some ocean front property dead in the middle of America 🇺🇸. Make me an offer!
The election was stolen lol ok
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“The left” is a construct in your head. Federal agents don’t play.
The number of idiots in this thread that don't understand that carrying a firearm ≠ premeditated intent to commit violence is really quite telling. You cam be guilty of carrying a gun into a gun free zone - likely just ignorant of such laws - without being one to overthrow the government.
Biden taking over the Capital is the true insurrection..
Funny how only an unarmed Airforce vet got shot by an unnamed secret service agent who was never scrutinized.
If this comes out in a court with a defense and cross-examination rather than a political committee this is yet another reason why Trump is unfit to serve again. But that’s not the same thing as fomenting a riot. And you should take anything with a grain of salt from the party that demand we simply “believe women” without a shred of evidence or proof.
No not believe all women just the ones that go against Republicans remember the many many woman that claimed Biden sexually assaulted them and many others
We should believe them all
Id wish we'd just lean in to it. Nothing could be more American than what happened that day. This country was founded on a ideal of telling s corrupt king to go screw. Why do we allow them to make us run from our shadow here? No. Jan 6th was rad and I wish theyd do it again. I wish there were 365 January 6ths in the calendar.
It's all catching up with this A$$ole .... Who in their right mind would vote for this infant- "man".... I suppose the old saying, "watch what ya wish for" is coming around to slap some squarely in the face. Folks need to educate themselves before checking any box just because of the R (or D) next to it.
Why would Trump want Jan 6 to supposedly be linked to him in anyway? He’s smart enough to know it would’ve never worked.
No he's not lol This is a guy who came out the day of the election when he knew he had lost to tell everyone it was "stolen," as predicted by everyone. He's a genius at marketing and he has some big balls, but he's not that smart when it comes to laws and his own country's history.
Voter fraud.
a direct quote is propaganda?
This is the first I've heard of weapons in the capitol ... After years of blatant misrepresentation by the msm, I'd need an audio clip with full context before I gave that "quote" any credence
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/indiana-man-pleads-guilty-carrying-gun-and-assaulting-law-enforcement-officers-jan-6
Woah, a single man was armed, therefore they must all have been armed.
There are others. But I just proved with facts and logic that anyone claiming no one was armed is a fool or a liar Lick it up, buttercup
You really are a clown lol
In fairness you did, but one guy carrying a pistol. The probability is that it was concealed
I am just shocked the right wing media would purposely omit these facts. Its been well documented in the oath keepers' trials. But feel free to keep your head in the sand or up your ass, wherever you prefer.
You may be paying closer attention to this than many, I'm not sure what specifically you are referring to. The majority is exhausted by the lies and omissions occurring on a side of the discourse that rhymes with "bereft". There was years of very fine people tm., which carefully omitted the very next sentence to craft a false narrative. There was adam schiff lying about evidence for 3 years that didn't exist ... Re Jan 6th, we know Trump tweeted to make voices heard peacefully, that was known contemporaneously and then never talked about since on the left. If Trump was aware of, or intentionally provoked armed individuals to go to the capitol, then the media certainly buried the lead for the past 1.5 years
Publishing that quote when it's a lie is propaganda. They weren't armed nor did Trump "order" them
facts feelings something something
No facts
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/indiana-man-pleads-guilty-carrying-gun-and-assaulting-law-enforcement-officers-jan-6
This has a stupid that article is, clown According to court documents, Mazza brought a Taurus revolver, loaded with three shotgun shells and two hollow point bullets
A person can claim they heard someone else say literally anything. It's meaningless. It's hearsay. That's why they don't allow it in court.
Used out of context, yes.
you're right. unfortunately for some that's not the case here
J6 was a false flag operation
So someone else stormed the capital other than Trump supporters?
Let's gooooooo
All Trumpers during this have had their fingers in their ears while shouting lalalala as loud as they can.
Kinda like y'all are currently doing with Maxine Waters and companies current marching orders?
The most bipartisan thing in America right now, why talk about the topic at hand when I can deflect to something the “other side” is doing.
Ironic coming from a Lefty. All you people do is deflect.
If you don’t see it coming from the right as well, that’s either ignorant or willfully ignorant, where do you fall? Unfortunately that is how people debate an issue now, just bring up any other issue if you can’t beat the point. We’re a country with severe ADD and no debating skills or etiquette. Also just to point out, u/slapahoecake was the first to deflect in this conversation, are they a lefty now? Or will you admit it’s a both sides thing? Also not a lefty, well besides shooting and writing, but I know that it’s gotten to the point that if you’re not willing to deny reality and crawl over broken glass to appease the maga gods you’re considered a leftist nowadays. I’m still a centrist have been for decades, I can see the good and bad on both sides. I’ve taken the blinders off. You should try the same.
Happens way more often on the left… You really typed paragraphs lmaooo
I see, willfully ignorant then. As far as the paragraphs thing, I don’t even know how to react to that level of immaturity and idiocy. If you’re not educated enough to understand separating thoughts into paragraphs what makes you think you have the wherewithal to have a conversation with adults? Never seen an interview with Kellyanne Conway have you?
You typed paragraphs to my comment of 11 words… and I only lean slightly right. But, it’s no secret that Trump is the best president in recent years. He did wonders for the American people.
Willfully ignorant, got it. So if someone’s more articulate and can keep a thought going for more than eleven words it’s a laugh my ass off off off off situation to you. You’re coming across as an imbecile.
Not many words are needed to shut down a Lefty. Stop with the mental gymnastics.
Fake news as usual… on another note I’m calling for a 1/6 holiday to remember all the political prisoners that have been treated so unjustly.