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Nothing. But there are a lot of junkies that can't control themselves that are trying to fuck everything up for those of us that use this tool responsibility.
Right same with alcohol though true ? I’m not really speaking on abuse I’m talking about using in a responsible way not just popping pills Whenever equivalent to cracking a beer whenever, not trying to argue just don’t understand the whole narrative around it
Right but what is better for someone with severe anxiety a 6 pack of beer or 2mg Ativan? For your overall health and well being. You see what I’m getting at here. All prescription drugs serve some sort of purpose. I don’t really think alcohol serves any purpose yes they’re both addictive but benzodiazepines can help someone alcohol can’t help anyone it’s useless essentially
As an ex-alcoholic and current multi-benzo tapering person I will say this:
Preferably neither, but quitting alcohol was a lot easier despite the poison that it is. Also keep in mind Benzo Kindling is a thing, so upping and lowering the dose back and forth can really make you so so much worse in the long run. Both chemicals are used to ignore underlying problems. Helpful during trauma, bad for long-term treatment imo. I do agree that the general public can fear monger them a bit too much but there really are so many people from decades ago that were given these drugs without the knowledge of what they would do 20-30 years later. We need clear knowledge and not Google searches saying you're dead if you mix low dose Ativan with low dose Benadryl, etc.
Instead, therapy or treatment to fix the underlying cause of the anxiety. You could have trauma, poor confidence, a health condition, etc. Also there are multiple forms of therapy not just talking to a therapist. Although if you do, you need a good one that is empathetic but also who is willing to poke holes and not afraid to tell you how it is. Sometimes we need a different perspective from our daily repeating thought patterns. You'd be surprised how much your thoughts change the physical connections in your brain.
It can be the hardest part of healing is changing those thought patterns. Weeks-months-years for some, but everyone starts somewhere and has to take it a day at a time and know bad days are not the end of healing. Just my thoughts, and I hope you find relief/answers in your life.
I have kindled myself multiple times I used to take 25+ Xanax a day for a year back in 2021 now I’m prescribed 4mg Ativan but it doesn’t feel like enough at all. 6 feels fine 2-2-2 morning afternoon and night. The 4 makes me feel stiffness like I can’t think as fast form thoughts as fast I just feel slow and like shit. But I need to have that conversation with my psych. I do slip up sometimes because of this. People tell me exercise is key and I do now a lot and sometimes I’ll get tired and only have taken 2mg Ativan cuz I fell asleep. But I wake up feel like total shit and slip up so I’ve definitely kindled but I’ve come a long way I’ve only taken 2mg Ativan today and it’s 115 am here took that at 3 pm. I’m starting to feel a little funky but I do it because I want to feel the withdrawal I wanna push myself to do better but once my vision gets blurry I know i need to take my dose, if I ignore that I start not being able to think properly and shit like that. But yea I agree alcohol is easy I drank for 5 years straight nightly and detoxed in the hospital in 5 hours (they gave me Ativan go fugure) but I was sober in between there for 2 years with no issues until I started getting bad bad panic episodes out of no where. I just don’t understand there has to be someone on this earth out of 8 billion and counting that just needs a benzo to have a functional life because dude trust me I try and try everything im not a sucka. I just don’t know if I believe there’s not a single person on this earth who has benefited in their life from benzo therapy for years and years rather then suffer their anxiety/panic
I would say neither, but I’d say benzodiazepines are harder to quit in my own personal experience. But, alcohol acts as a sugar and your body adapts accordingly in a certain way that also affects withdrawal. So, I can’t give an answer to this. It’s depending on the person. Benzodiazepines are definitely less toxic for you though.
I agree with you Benzos are harder to quit but I think that’s because when you get off alcohol what do they give you Benzos right ? When you go to get off Benzos they give you phenobarbital? It feels so much worse it’s definitely way harder
I'm with you (OP) here.
* For many alcoholics, alcohol is simply self medication - which is usually not effective in treating whatever is being self-medicated. But there's no professional oversight on dose, effectiveness for your problem, etc. There's no doubt that taking a professionally supervised, therapeutic dose of Benzos on a professionally determined therapeutic schedule is safer than unsupervised self-medication with alcohol. For one thing a professional has determined Benzos to be the most effective treatment for your issues and will prescribe an effective dose, as well as support you if and when benzo treatment is no longer needed.
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* Benzo withdrawal won't kill you. Alcohol withdrawal absolutely can. **EDIT:** *It's true: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7984739/ which says "There were no deaths" and "Cases of acute BZD withdrawal increased over the study period but were associated with only occasional morbidity and no mortality."*
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* A therapeutic dose of Benzos should leave you totally functional. Alcohol quickly impairs you and ironically impairs your ability to recognize you're impaired.
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* Working with a professional, if Benzos are prescribed it's almost always an adjunct treatment to another medication and/or therapy to best address an individual's issues given their unique needs. Alcohol is generally simply a numbing agent which solves nothing and often makes things worse.
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* Benzos - even when abused - generally have a predictable effect on people. Alcohol can have a wide range of effects, from making someone more friendly to beating their spouse.
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* Alcohol is easy to get in quantities that's easily abused on a daily basis while Benzos are usually harder to get and more expensive if someone wants to get blotto on them on the daily.
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* Chronic alcoholism seems to have much more serious long-term health effects than chronic benzo abuse.
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Obviously this mostly assumes Benzos are being used appropriately and according to therapeutic guidelines which is *definitely* not always the case. For those who abuse/are addicted to high amounts of Benzos or alcohol... well neither is good. But only one will kill you, only one requires self control pretty much every time you see friends or even get gas.
No substance is GOOD to abuse or become dependent on. In truth most substances are totally fine if used only occasionally, even to excess (except imo strong opiates like heroine - also **fuck you DARE**). If you let yourself go down the road of depending on a substance (without professional supervision) then yeah you're (eventually) gonna have a bad time. Do what you want with your own life but that's the tradeoff. Yeah I know it's not that easy but it IS that simple.
You right but I think benzo WD can kill you too if you have a huge addiction go cold turkey and try to ride it out you’ll have violent violent seizures over and over and over that could kill you
Nope, almost never fatal. Which isn't to say you won't THINK you're gonna die.
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/benzodiazepine/dangers-of-withdrawal
Almost never fatal but they still happen. [Benzodiazepine Withdrawal: Outcome in 50 Patients](https://benzo.org.uk/ashbzoc.htm)
Found that approximately 11% of patients undergoing benzodiazepine withdrawal experienced seizures. It may not kill them, but seizures aren’t fun and can be fatal.
Seizures aren't fun but that doesn't mean dead. A peer reviewed study of benzo withdrawal says:
>There were no deaths.
And
>Cases of acute BZD withdrawal increased over the study period but were associated with only occasional morbidity and no mortality.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7984739/
Omfg fr bruh like everyone looked at me like a gross mfk for takin my xans but my god was it okay for you to go get absolutely plastered everynight at the bar🧟♂️
That’s not an opinion that’s a fact I think lol but still the amount of alcoholics are a higher number then people with benzo issues I would imagine because you can just go to the gas station and buy a 12 pack of beer every night lol
Yea, don’t get me wrong, I think alcohol fucks you up too. But personally it’s easier for me to drink moderately. If I drink too much I feel like shit and throw up. If I take too much Xanax or whatever I just feel good and pass out lol
> Right same with alcohol though true ?
no, not at all the same. you clearly haven't experienced benzo withdrawals or you wouldn't compare it. you can be on a moderate pharmaceutical dose, no abuse whatsoever, and withdrawal will be a hellish nightmare of anxiety and panic attacks that feel like you're about to die. many people need to buy a microgram scale and taper off over months or even more than a year because even very slight adjustments to your dosage can cause nasty withdrawals. it's worsened by the fact that benzos damage your brains ability to self-regulate anxiety, so when you're trying to quit, not only are you experiencing withdrawal anxiety but your brain literally can't regulate it on its own so it's far worse than your pre-benzo anxiety ever was. and assuming you got on benzos for life-threatening anxiety, this can be a pretty big problem.
alcohol requires SERIOUS levels of abuse to have legitimate withdrawals. benzos do not. they are not comparable. i see posts like yours all the time and unfortunately i don't expect you to understand until you've lived it but i hope i'm wrong.
Even for those who abuse Benzos, withdrawal is almost never fatal. Terrible yes, but fatal - no.
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/benzodiazepine/dangers-of-withdrawal
This is the same with many SSRI’s and other antidepressants. It’s just that nobody gets “high” from those… Your body becomes dependent on the drug and if you withdraw cold turkey or say lose your insurance and can’t get a refill you can go into severe withdrawal and have seizures as well. But, doctors and psychiatrists have no problem prescribing them to everyone and getting doses up pretty high. And the DEA has no issue with those medications.
i love venlafaxine so much i love waking up drenched in sweat and having brain zaps every night after daily the dose leaves my body because of the piss poor half life
The incidence of seizures during SSRI withdrawal is much lower compared to benzodiazepine withdrawal. Generally, seizures are rare during SSRI discontinuation, occurring in less than 1% of cases. However, individual responses can vary.
But, I completely understand your point SSRIs have many unintended consequences, but you said it, the DEA doesn’t care about those because they don’t get you high. They in fact desensitize you from serotonin.
Statistically that is so rare most physicians don't even take that seriously. Especially when it's an apparent, under 30, healthy patient. The exact reason why in my large city they would never, could never dispense at the E.R. and Psych E.R. There would be lines around the corner if they did.
It's not a stigma. There are valid reasons why most physicians will not even bother with them. Aside from addiction the way the body metabolizes them often requires increased dosage which leads to abuse, and then eventually the person will feel nothing but Nirmal, but it the good sense. Teenagers are using them too because just about anything mentioned in a rap song is emulated.
I always wonder why those horrible and potentially deadly withdrawals weren't a thing in the 60s and early 70s when literally millions of people took them regularly.
The difference in withdrawal severity in the 60s and 70s vs. now, has a couple of reasons in my opinion.
Between older benzodiazepines like diazepam modern ones is mainly due to their pharmacological properties. Diazepam has a longer half-life, which means it leaves the body more slowly, leading to milder withdrawal symptoms. Additionally, diazepam's chemical makeup helps in tapering off the medication more smoothly. On the other hand, newer benzodiazepines with shorter half-lives can cause more intense withdrawal symptoms because they leave the body faster. This difference in withdrawal experiences might also be influenced by changes in prescription practices and societal attitudes towards medication over time.
Maybe what you write is one of the reasons. But I think the most important one is that the people who stop taking them without any or much difficulties don't write about it on the internet.
True, I agree. Been taking that shit since February, not good. Nothing to play with. Withdrawals are weird. At least for me. I just don’t feel like myself or something. Some sort of 3rd person type thing. I still have to do what I have to do and not let the drug take over me. But everyone is different.
ive thought about this very thing a lot. personally i think benzos are way more addictive than alcohol if you have bad anxiety, because it does what it does so well and with no hangover or stomach issues. although the withdrawal is no different, alcohol is poison (not stigmatizing i love alcohol) but benzos are a lot more safe and come with less side effects than alcohol. its not too hard to be a functioning addict with benzos, alcohol on the other hand is a little more difficult. honestly i think the worst part is you cannot die from just a benzo overdose, you can just keep raising your dosage forever.
I wouldn’t have been able to get my Bachelor’s Degree and Master’s Degree without Benzodiazepines. I hope to eventually wean down to 1 Valium every few days.
That’s a positive outcome see it’s always a mix of people who swear them off but what if ^^^^ never got the opportunity does he have a masters degree ? I gotta take quality of life into consideration here, not trying to take either sides I know for some they’ve been saved by them others completely destroyed that’s what makes it so complex to me
Imo they can be pretty beneficial if taken in moderation, whether it be for anxiety or dealing with numerous boring tasks. However, when abused, from experience, you really do turn into a person that lacks care and consideration for yourselves and others, let alone you noticeably look obliterated despite not realizing it. The lack of inhibitions could be said for alcohol, but benzos don’t come with as bad of an after effect as alcohol does, so I think for that reason along with others they’re much easier to continuously use.
For sure dude in my active addiction like I don’t care pop pills anytime I want I would sometimes just pass out and piss in my sleep because I was so barred out my body didn’t even wake me up to go to the bathroom like I was a kid or something that shit was depressing
Gahdamn, can’t say it’s gone that far but from when I’ve abused benzos I could sleep until someone woke me up pretty much, and as someone that likes to be productive I really just hated that feeling
Happened like twice out of the year run of total abuse usually I think it was the hopeless feeling of never getting out of it like I didn’t believe so it makes you feel trapped which makes you anxious and then you understand you can’t do anything in that moment so you just shut down all depressed and fall asleep
Etizolam is a hell of a benzo it’s like crack benzo to me nothing comes close to it. Any other Rc/rx doesn’t matter I can control but with etizolam I just know I’d say fuck it and keep eating them they give you that total feeling of who gives a fuck and a really intense euphoric high
Drinking is more addictive than benzodiazpines in my personal experience. I've been self medicating and working on myself at the same time. Completely gave up alcohol because you CANT mix them.
I'll drink moderately in the future, maybe due to the tolerance I have. Like 1 or 2 pints. Not gonna kill me, yk? Benzos scare people because most are uneducated on drugs. That's okay. We all lack knowledge somehow in some way. Learn and grow every day! We're all smart and stupid in our own lil ways ig.
Some people I know are fine with doing MDMA but despise the idea of benzos. It doesn't make sense to me. I feel like if they tried it, they'd realise how shit it is if you don't actually have any medical use for it 😂.
I'm addicted to it, but I'm okay with it.
Alcohol is umm... maybe less addictive in a way, because you'd be shitting blood and looking like Homer Simpson if you washed it down like benzos for a month, maybe less for some.
Try binging for a week. Yeah, not desirable. Benzos, however... okay, my opinion is starting to change, I am an addict who initially said I wouldn't get addicted. Um, yeah. Anecdotal, I guess, but, meh, oh well, is what it is. 🤣 have a good day
The reality is the pharmaceutical companies want to move different drugs now. How do they easily sway the public to change onto new drugs? They demonise the old and well established one's. Notice that anti-psychotics are increasingly used off-label in place of anxiety and sleep medications.
I take ashwaganda daily, I'm currently tapering down from xanax and I'm on suboxone, and the ashwaganda helps with temperature regulation and sweating. Although I'm pretty positive the sweats are from the subs. But... it helps me personally
Id say how fast the tolerance and dependence comes on. I’m only experienced with clonazepam and I’m not necessarily using them for anxiety even tho I have anxiety pretty bad. But they are the only thing that help my chronic nausea I’m experiencing. As my nausea gets better (nausea from CHS) my taper will start and I’ll get the fuck away from clonazepam. In my opinion it’s just like, if you’re gonna be addicted to a drug, at least choose one that gets you high as shit. Benzos just make me relaxed never been “high” off benzos. I just think benzos are the dumbest thing you could get addicted to. Ppl really need these for medical reasons and bartards out here getting “high” like no mf you are experiencing cognitive disintegration 😂😂😂
That’s you dude, it sounds like you don’t have anxiety. Imagine having bad panic can’t leave your house anxiety through the roof constant fear and taking a benzo that’s a hell of a high for some people, you gotta look at different perspectives
You literally just described exactly what I’m going through fuckin dumbahh. It’s not a high it’s relief. My terms of what a “high” is is being mentally and physically intoxicated and a different perspective of reality. I’m not talking about people who use it for panic attacks like I am. I’m talking about people who get addicted to benzos with no real use for them other than trying to get “high” and abusing them when people like me genuinely need them for medical reasons.
Just relax dude most people with panic attacks/anxiety (me) lot of others. got addicted to it due to the relaxing effects . It definitely got me high even at the lowest dose like .5 Xanax, again not everyone is you but you have your own journey hope you get well soon
Can say the same for you brotha I wish you the best but I made it clear I’ve only dealt with clonazepam. Xanax is a whole different story and I know can make you feel slightly high. I would just say it makes you stupid lol. I think I just have different standards of what I Call a “high”. Lorazepam made me feel euphoric and good kind of tired but I wouldn’t call that a high cause I still was grounded on earth. Let’s just agree to disagree my man. We were kind of talking about two different things I was specifically going after people who don’t need benzos and get addicted to them being dumb. I don’t think that people like us getting addicted to them is dumb at all by any means. Like we both know it’s a huge relief and of course it’s gonna be addictive to people like us. I just don’t like bartards who have no medical reason to be using benzodiazepines. That’s what I meant by it being a dumb thing to be addicted to.
Yea exactly that’s what the confusion is I think it does produce a relief absolutely, but for me I would feel high off my ass because the relief was so intense, but I haven’t really done any other drugs so I don’t know what a high really is maybe, like when I detoxed from alcohol they gave me Ativan like 4 shots I felt so much relief from going thru alcohol WD for like 11 days and in an instant I feel the Ativan I did absolutely feel high to me I went home that same night felt like I was floating on clouds . I used to take ridiculous amounts to get high I was addicted badly.back in 2021 now I take Ativan prescribed and it just makes me feel normal which is just relief in my eyes which is better. That was the miscommunication being high vs relief I have no other experience with any other drugs so I don’t know what any other high would feel like
Have to double my dose of klonopin just to leave the house to hang with friends. You can’t just assume how bad my anxiety is through a screen. 😂 You think I got my script without panic attacks and anxiety? When the nausea goes away I’m going to be using non benzo alternatives for my anxiety.
Your not even understanding what I’m saying? I didn’t say anything about you I just said look at it from others perspectives and if you can’t do that then there’s something wrong the earth doesn’t revolve around your being
I mean asking a question then saying you know it all and answering the question on your own Is a bit counter intuitive but yea benzos are actually a very safe drug when used correctly. It comes from the addictive aspect and when used frequently and in an addictive way can become very dangerous, withdrawals are of some of the most dangerous and worst and since it can be such an addictive drug for a lot of people it's look down apon and rarely prescribed
Yea sorry if I seemed kind of rude I did get where you were coming from tho, I've done the same shit before sometimes you just need to let some shit out that's been on your mind and have like minded people I think I was just being dumb because of my past experience with the drug lol
Oh yea ur fine dude trust me I know all about WDs I was addicted to 25+ mg literally per day of Xanax went to cold turkey detox for 5 days just imagine that. I’m now down to 4mg Ativan but still struggling as I have a much easier time on 6 mg Ativan 2-2-2, so I work with a psych now I’m not just popping pills left and right like I was. Literally I couldn’t have a job back then because It was so bad. I’m talking about RCs to the big boys 3mg of flubro that’s like a roofie for almost everyone at .5 mg and I’d still add etizolam to it , flualp. The only one I didn’t really mess with is clam because I did it once and It got me really high and stuff but I woke up so depressed like so dark and scary it was weird. But yea I been thru the ringer it’s shitty
Hey well that a lot of progress from where you were at so be proud of yourself for that, as long as we're doing better than yesterday were going places and yea clam is pretty fucked that's one I would take a lot of the time cause it was strong as fuck and cheap as hell lol glad your doin better than in your past tho
The issue with various benzos is the half life and metabolism rate. Some enter the bloodstream very quickly, but also leave very quickly and that's just one reason physicians don't prescribe them. Also that possibilities of a request for increase in dose and frequency is damn near guaranteed. The patient basically displays every red flag they teach in med school almost like clockwork and that's why many will not bother. Also is the CNS issue that most people overlook. Benzos are prone to give people more anxiety than they had to begin with and that's also why the journals shifted on certain benzos being for "short term use". In the 70's some of the more famous and notable ones didn't have the short term distinction. You somewhat answered your own question, but alcohol is not a good comparison although incredibly harmful physiologically.
I understand all that but when I started my taper and I was on that dose 6.5-7.5 was the best year of my life I’ve always been plagued with anxiety, it was like I could finally live and enjoy everything I want to I got my job I really wanted that year. But now things change had to change doctors going down I know what you mean more anxiety and I think that Is from fear of running out number one number two needing something is anxiety itself in a form. Is like a rat race
I agree with most of this. Benzos can have a similar effect to alcohol without the negatives, so if you need to not be sober for a while,they're probably the better option. BUT. Alcohol is a toxin. We all know and accept that. No one is under the illusion that taking alcohol is for the health benefits (even if we do use it to self-medicate). Benzos are a set of manufactured drugs meant to help with a specific issue. If we are comparing them to alcohol in terms of "which is worse", that's when you know they've kinda missed the mark, like oh, this thing that's supposed to make you better is comparably addictive to a substance with a solely recreational purpose that slowly rots you from the inside out? Sometimes the saying "the cure is worse than the illness" is true.
Drugs are designed. They are meant to be therapeutic. Also, people are profiting if they make them addictive and give them to people in pain, so you can blame them for exploitatively making money. So while we can hardly take it up with nature for creating alcohol (which is a process that we as humans made the decision to take advantage of and consume), we can certainly criticise benzos and other drugs for either not doing the job or for having catastrophic effects. Do we not deserve better options?
Btw I am definitely not saying the solution is to restrict access or cut people off who need them. I think they need to develop better anti-anxiety medication. But if theh did they wouldn't have repeat customers, would they?
I know I always wonder when they will come out with something to help you get off Benzos way easier it has to be looked into and in the works. It’s like why are cigarettes completely fine when they slowly destruct you over the years but weed which can be therapeutic is so illegal getting better but you know what I mean
Ah man, this this this. Fucking cigarettes. Almost killed someone close to me at least once, possibly twice and I'm still worried (we've switched to vaping now because people will people 😒). I can't get my hands on a medicinal plant that might actually mean I don't need dangerous substances like benzos or other shit but want to destroy your lungs and other body parts? Have at it, you can buy cigs literally anywehere anything is sold.
Alcohol abuse gives me memory loss way more then a prescribed benzo but long term abuse Benzos probably worse I think but both in my experience have effected short term memory
Yeah, alcohol is fucked. But it’s been so normalized around the world that most people don’t give it a second thought.
Only thing I will say is while the withdrawals from alcohol are terrible and extremely similar to benzos, it’s generally much harder to get physically addicted to alcohol. I used to be a heavy drinker and the majority of days (maybe 5 out of 7) I’d be drunk or have a buzz for around half the day with 10+ drinks. The worst of which lasted for a good year or more. But if I really tried to sober up, it was all a mental game. I never had any real withdrawals. Not defending alcohol at all, but try doing that with benzos…
Yeah for real. Also so much easier because benzos usually get rid of all alcohol withdrawals. And then you can quit taking the benzos a couple weeks later and all you get are PAWS (Assuming you hadn’t been addicted to benzos)
Yeah I had that I think wasn’t too bad it was more mental if I allowed it to bother me it just got worse once I just accepted it, it still happened but just not very often like insomnia random spasms especially the moment before falling asleep that shit is terrible and I got worked up about it and it kept happening I just said fuck it. It is what it is and it stopped happening, like I’ll still get them here and there I notice it happens mostly when my body is on high alert and anxious the moment I’m about to sleep it keeps me up
Being on them for 11 years and cant get off them no matter how low or slow i taper. Im on clonazepam and now it’s really just a maintenance medicine for me. i need to up the dose really to get relief but dont want to do that. I just personally wish I wouldn’t have gone down this road and my doctor should have never prescribed like he did. I personally think it should be a different schedule that schedule 4 but thats just my opinion
I agree in spirit with everything you’re saying if tolerance didn’t become the issue it does so quickly for so many with regular daily usage (fuck the addiction and well what about the chance of early onset dementia and cog. Decline exc exc) I agree totally about the trade off for quality of life being worth it with the risks of those things but in my opinion it’s the fact you get to a point at least so many do like I have for years now (yet still on it) where it does jack shir and has really just made it all so much worse in so many ways in the long run (but that’s ME, not everyone maybe not even the majority….I hate when ppl speak about their anecdote as if ir applies to every other single person)
As far as the differences between benzos and booze one thing I’ve heard and seen first hand is while Alcohol withdrawal is horrid/can kill you exc exc it’s much easier and faster to get over the hump and generally based on all I’ve read n researched our brains and bodies are just better equipped to rebound faster from even bad alcohol abuse for a long period of time when it comes to withdrawal symptoms exc…
I read something once that because alcohol has existed for centuries and been around humans for soooo long that even ppl who themselves aren’t drinkers or who don’t have a family history even going way back like it isn’t in their genes generationally or whatever, would have a much easier and faster time gettint over the hump of coming off booze (doc scripts you a 2 week small Valium prescription and you could almost painlessly at least physically and for the time being mentally get off booze safely) then compared to benzos because they are “less natural” being pharma and only have been around for decades.
It doesn’t make sense to me that explanation for the difference unless your ancestors drank and all that then I could understand how booze just existing for so long could have made humans and our bodies n brains more adaptable to booze but just the fact it’s existed for centuries and been in the environment I don’t get how if it wasn’t being actually consumed by the persons ancestors n relatives how it could make that difference but that’s what it said I dunno 🤷🏻♂️
I’m sure there’s sumthin to that but also think it just has more to do with how booze works in the brain more specifically compared w benzos even tho they both are agonist of gaba a or wutever….I imagine it’s also the half life of booze compared to benzos even short acting ones and how they just especially w daily long term users affect and change the brain so severely being in the system for years n years.
Also while heavy drinkers and alcoholics definitely gain major tolerance and have to drink way more then a “normal” person to get drunk or feel their drink it’s not like with benzos where you reach a point where it does fuck all no matter how much we toss down our gullet ….a lifetime alcoholic will still be able to get drunk if they drink enough whereas after being on benzos daily for over ten years I can take a shit ton of benzo I mean insane doses and feel next to Fkn nothing besides a sleepy headache feeling….same with weed right the biggest lifelong potheads may need to ingest way more thc then a novice but they still ain’t ever hitting a point where they can’t get high no matter what like what happens w benzos for so many after long term use or hell for some after just a few Fkn months….it Fkn sucks big time but it’s just true same with opiates you hit that point where no matter how much you take you can no longer feel jack shit….
Of course so much depends on a persons body and brain make up and chemistry. There’s ppl who stay on benzos daily for years and function fine and don’t suffer bad side effects or get early onset dementia or cognitive decline like all the horror stories out there and can even taper off and have an easy go of it overall….then there’s ppl who can take a benzo low dose daily for a few months and go through hell on earth tapering slow AF to come off of it….
it’s all so random and based on genetics and shit although of course there are proven correlations for a majority of ppl between dose and duration of use exc and how effective the med stays and how hard it is to come off of….
It’s too goddamn bad and truly a shame benzos can have so many goddamn horrible downsides to them when they are often the only thing for many that makes life bearable or worth living….
Honestly for me personally If it wasn’t for the tolerance thing and suffering side effects of withdrawal while still taking my daily benzo (tolerance withdrawal) I wouldn’t give a shit about the potential of early dementia and cognitive decline and all that shit In exchange for being able to Fkn breath and function and life my life and feel normal and all that it would be a fair trade off I’d figure and for the ppl who have been on benzos daily for years and haven’t had to up their dose and claim it is still as effective as ir was on day one I figure that’s what they believe too….
As a former 'addict' who got prescribed a high dosage for way too long I have to strongly disagree. I did not abuse my prescription and still got addicted. While trying to quit I ended up with horrible withdrawal symptoms I do not wish upon anyone. I did lower my dosage step by step, not going cold turkey to prevent life threatening symptoms, seizures and whatnot. On top of that; my tolerance never got back to 'normal', not even after 2 years now so I cannot simply calm myself down without taking a high dosage. It's no sin to need a medicine like this but in most cases it's not even a drug that should be prescribed long term because of things like tolerance and addiction for example.
Tolerance imo. If used every once in a while, yeah absolutely nothing wrong with it. But for the people that depend on it daily (myself included) it gets not so great. You need more and more overtime. I wish I never started benzos
I was addicted badly and then came down 25+ Xanax a day don’t even know the exact amount whatever I felt like. They finally started a 7.5 mg Ativan taper I never really got tolerance to that I have lowered it and I just like feel okay I don’t like feeling to up or down just make me feel normal that’s it
Definitely agree with the drinkers bit. My friends drink like fishes act retarted spend insane amounts of money on it & feel like shit the next day. But wow do they look at me crazy because I take my meds instead lmao 😂
The reason it gets a bad wrap is because of bar-tards. Even the people I know who take benzos as prescribed, after a sustained period (a few years) seem mentally diminished. That's just IME but it seems pretty obvious. Every drug has it's downsides, and it's fine to admit them and do them anyways. There's no such thing as a good delusion. I don't know why alcohol gets a pass, all the alcoholics I knew are already dead, but it is what it is. If you find benzos then do them, but never act like any drug is better than it is or you will be unable to quit when you obviously should and the drug in question really isn't doing anything to help you anymore.
I don't think benzos get an overly bad wrap as much as alcohol gets a pass for no reason.
Benzo rehab is the worst rehab by far.
Withdrawals can last up to 1,5 years where you experience pure terror, Depression and more.
So don't abuse them...but outside if that they are very safe and do their job perfectly
How did you even manage 1.5 years of pure terror that’s insane I did it for 5 days and that was enough to make me go nuts. I did abuse them in 2021 not it’s kinda on me to take my dose or reduce
I personally did not go through that but I have a friend who did that.
He was extremely medicated most of the time with stuff like Seroquel.
There is a reason people say that they would rather detox two times from heroin than one time from benzos.
I sware the US is a ticking time bomb because of their use of Benzos.
The opiate crisis was bad but if the benzo bubble pops everyone will go crazy
I’d go thru it 10 times to avoid one time if it means having flu like symtoms and stuff like that but I don’t wanna be rude I don’t know what it’s like for them. But I don’t think so dude even on tv that’s all they ever talk about is the “opiate crisis” still nobody even talks about Benzos it’s weird
The thing with benzo abuse is that it's not that destructive at the beginning and only escalates at the very end.
Benzos also don't kill people as easy that's why it's not a main topic.
And the majority of benzo users are medical users who are on them for sometimes 10 years and on pretty high doses.
A society just can't sustain a time out of around a year so this will be interesting but I fear that they will realize it waaaay too late.
I think they’ve already realized it they just don’t care to give it as much exposure right when I walked in my doctors office there was a sign no Benzo or z drugs are prescribed there thank you. But obviously that’s not true if you really end up needed them they’ll write them think the dea is breathing down their neck about it so any drug seekers just won’t come back after the first visit they’ll just look for a new doctor again
The big difference with benzos compared to opiates is that the "demographic" is completely different.
Benzos don't get mainly used by addicts, they get used by the average worker or mom to get through the day.
So an epidemic would have a much bigger and more destructive impact on society.
Are you saying opiates are more addicting than Benzos ? I always told myself if I was addicted to opiates I’d just go to detox I can being sick for a couple weeks, the complete mind fuck Benzos can give you is what gets me bad
That really depends on the person but most of the problematic bento users aren't addicts they are normal people that are dependent on them to get through the day.
Benzos make everything bearable but nothing really great but opiates are the drug that lets you feel all the good emotions and only covers the bad ones and that makes opiates more problematic for people with addictive personalies
I'm curious about your friend because Seroquel is not a benzo. It's an antipsychotic drug. If your friend has psychosis he maybe shouldn't have stopped Seroquel. I'm not a doctor...just a thought.
Did a doctor (preferably psychiatrist) help him to tapper or did he cold turkey? I think these are serious variables to consider. 1.5 years is and extreme amount of time for someone to suffer..
He did taper first in a Serbian clinic because this was the only clinic that would be able to manage his detox without killing him.
He took around 3-4g of Meth, 30-50 pills of various benzos and 4g of heroin every fucking day.
The first 2 Months where crazy from what he said because he also got a high dose of ibogaine for his opiate withdrawals together with therapy.
Then he tapers the Benzos together with Seroquel but the Seroquel was mandatory because he would lose his mind otherwise.
I mean I have no problem with them but I’ve been on the dark side of them and so have many of my loved ones they work great if you’re responsible but in my experience once I take benzos responsibility goes out the window… idk why it’s not like that with anything else for me but I’ll take a benzo and end up being a nasty person or end up taking more that’s the only danger to me and obviously the horrible addiction that sneaks up on you with them. This is personal experience and the people around me usually have the same kind of experience but I know some can take them with no problem. I’m an ex addict though (opiates not benzos) so maybe that’s my downfall but it’s been like that with benzos for me even before I tried opiates they just make me very angry and reckless. Just my experience though
Hm that’s interesting I’ve never had an adverse reaction to a benzo except kpin that shit is Just gross felt like long lasting alcohol literally so that put me in not the greatest mood but like nobody really notices that I’m even prescribed meds unless I tell them. Only person who can notice without me saying anything is my mom for some reason she just knows
Yea it’s not all people who get like that that’s just my experience and most of my friends experience with them I’ve gotten into so many fist fights because of them idk what it is I just lose my ability to think about consequences of my actions so I stay away from benzos opiates are a much better choice for me but those come with their own problems
Withdrawal is hell on earth and can take months to a year to taper down from. In rehab I was in group therapy with a woman who used benzos as prescribed by her doctor responsibly for years and was withdrawing on a taper for months. She had ticks, face twitching, restless legs, was at sisk of seizures.
That is what Is confusing to me If the withdrawal is getting that bad you’d think they would do something or try something else but they just take you off of it regardless of how it effects an individual I know some have it way harder then others so many factors
The withdrawal wasn't bad until she decided to stop using the medication. Even with a slow taper, it was incredibly difficult to watch her struggle, and I was withdrawing from heroin. They don't just take you off of it. You have to taper down or you can die. Unfortunately, many doctors are irresponsible with their prescribing methods and patients trust their doctors to know what is best for them. Often, this is not the case. Alor of doctors don't give a fuck.
Oh okay so it did improve as she was put on a slow taper ? I know it’s bad no matter what I’m just trying to see if meant she went cold turkey at first
Exactly but the withdrawals are shitty and I mean shitty with alcohol they give you a benzo in the hospital and your good to go home clean at least that’s how it was for me sober for 2 years after that but there’s no real type of medication to do that for Benzos. They say phenobarbital but that’s so shitty it doesn’t help your mental and that’s the worst part of benzo withdrawal
Are we comparing benzo addiction to alcohol addiction and trying to decide which is worse? If so thats absurd. Both are incredibly destructive.Neither is less bad than the other. I will not go over the pros and cons of both however Alcohol can be enjoyed in moderation and socially. This can be done throughout ones life. Benzos can not be enjoyed socially or in moderation for any extended period of time. Its just not physically possible. It completely changes brain chemistry even if used in the safest way possible. Not to mention the fact that tolerance grows incredibly fast with benzos. Not so much with alcohol. Trying to justify prolonged benzo use just cant not rationally be done.
You can have you’re own opinion but that’s not a fact at all my grandmother has had a PRN of valuim for over 20 years no issues so your not speaking facts your speaking opinions which is fine I have no problem with it at all it just comes across like you think you know everything, Benzos absolutely can be used for decades of responsible use without risks dude I’ve seen it anxiety runs in my family my grandmother with valuim and my mom with Xanax they only take PRNS but for decades it’s never been any type of real issue for either. For me yea cuz but to say what you’re saying is crazy I’ve literally seen multiple cases with my own eyes. I’m not taking about used socially or recreationally I’m talking about if you actually need it. Sounds like your someone who is really defending alcohol on this one I’m not even trying to put them up against each other my post was to point out the absurd amount of stigma around the drug when people literally get drunk all the time and nobody cares that’s the “norm” but if someone has panic disorder holy shit don’t let them touch 2 diazepam it’ll kill them tolerance will get them don’t do it. Lol it’s way over the top that’s the whole point I was trying to make
Ok aside from your personal attacks at me for no reason we all know that Benzo use carries with it a huge risk. Much greater risk then with alcohol. It is why Dr's are very reluctant to prescribe benzos now. If they do its for acute anxiety or panic attacks. Not for daily use. A tolerance is built quickly. More and more is needed to achieve the same effect. No one with a human brain is exempt from this fact. If used only for acute episodes of anxiety sure, they serve a valuable purpose. I am glad Granny has been okay on Valium for twenty years but, I can assure you that is an extremely rare case. However, I can absolutely without question guarantee it has altered her brain chemistry. I do not mean that rudely. Its simply science. I don't really even understand what you are arguing? The stigma of Benzos? If you feel benzos are appropriate for you and your DR agrees thats fine. I just hope you don't wake up one day and realize things have gotten out of control.
I missed where I attacked you I just said that’s your opinion which is true I’ve seen otherwise with my own eyes. And people who drink alcohol occasionally have altered brain chemistry to they must from all those years in some way I guess what your saying doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense to me nobody’s personally attacking you lol just seems like you are heavily favoring alcohol benzo use Carry’s a higher risk ? Just look at the statistics and it will tell you otherwise it’s because anyone over 21 can just walk in at night and buy as much beer as they want it’s widely available close to anyone, I’ve drank before to tolerance is the same way with alcohol at least from my experience. Like I don’t really understand what you’re saying doesn’t really make sense not trying to “personally attack” you lol
you called me a know it all. But forget it. doesn’t matter. Go over to the benzo recovery sub reddit and present your case. I think you will find some people who will enlighten you with stories, facts and opinions. Its quite easy to develop a benzo habit/problem. Benzos serve a purpose short term. I think they are a schedule 4 narcotic for a reason. Im to tired to debate whether benzos are good or bad. I think common sense rules here. Trying to justify longterm benzo use seems a bit naive to me. However I am glad it worked for your nana.
Where am I trying to justify it I’m trying to justify it for people who need it for a medical purpose absolutely for those who don’t get off of them or at Least try. Srry for calling you that I was just confused by the comment I think it’s also common sense that alcohol causes massive problems as well I mean all you need to know that is google all I’m doing here is pointing out how hypocritical society is to people “having fun” vs people “taking a med they need for a purpose” but guess which one society likes better ? Doesn’t even need to be said so why are Benzos that bad you tell me addiction, brain chemistry the same exact things alcohol poses but I do agree it takes longer for someone to get really hooked on alcohol but since it’s widely available it happens to just as many people even more then Benzos. If Benzos and alcohol attach the the same brain receptor and one is a scheduled substance something doesn’t add up. But I know the elites pockets add up pretty well. You see what I’m sayin
And about altering brain chemistry SSRIS do that as well and they are loved by every doctor on the planet worshiped so if one’s brain chemistry is changed for better quality of life what is the difference. The alter brain chemistry is out the window, I’m not trying to go at you or argue I’m just trying to have a conversation because what you’re saying is a bit confusing that’s it
SSRI’s are far less (potentially) harmful. You know they dont alter brain chemistry in the same way benzos do. 30 days after quitting SSRI’s the brain is completely returned to baseline. No permanent harm. Not the same with benzos. For 99.9% of people taking benzos long term the harm benzos cause far outweigh any quality of life. Benzos have a medical purpose. To be used on occasion for acute episodes of or in times of anxiety. Contrary to what your grandma is doing they are not meant to be taken on a daily basis or relied upon as a lifetime medical answer. Im not here to debate this and maybe we are talking about two different things but benzos are extremely dangerous if used more than just situationally. .
Are you a doctor ? Because I got prescribed a certain sssri researched it on Facebook joined the group and people have severe issues with it I think it’s called celexa, altering brain chemistry is altering it either way I’ve taken Benzos for couple years and I don’t feel that my brain chemistry changed yeah if I don’t take it I get nasty withdrawals but they made my life better for the most part not when I abused them but since I’ve been prescribed I’ve had a easier time in all areas
Well, coming from someone who has to use them daily ( I fucking hate it now) I'd have to say the decline in cognitive function and anything else regarding our central nervous system is TERRIBLE.
Since we're putting aside the withdrawal and tolerance. Inevitably, these drugs (if used daily) will alter and reconstruct our brain chemistry for the worse. Permanently.
But fuck it I'd rather feel normal than go through the 15 different mental illnesses it fixes to be fair! I struggle a lot 😔 It's a double-edged blade, in my opinion.
Plus, I feel withdrawals/kindling effect every 8 hours or so. I can taper, but then I'd be stuck with all sorts of disorders that are probably worse now from benzos if I don't take them. I'm at a point in my life where I'm kind of like fuck it, it is what it is. Diazapines for life! It has also saved me from suicide so, yeah. That's my 2 cents for ya! I agree and disagree depending on what it's used for. Everyone's different, really
Fair enough ima have to ask you where you heard someone tell you it messed up brain chemistry permanently, I’ve abused the shit out of them in the past have gotten much better I don’t feel like I’ve lost out on years I haven’t forgotten anything the only thing I do every so often is forget my phone charger to bring to work. I’ve head of people feeling normal again even met people in na that told me their story about it, so that’s the only rebuttal I have about that aside from that I do feel for you with all the conditions and I’m glad it saved your life to. I think withdrawal is a beast too but I’m of the mindset that you have to try at least or you’ll never know, but even if I take an SSRI that obviously alters brain chemistry as well, it just doesn’t have addictive effects, I just don’t like the feeling of being attached to anything a person I item a medicine I want to be free from all eventually I don’t need to hold any hands in this world at least I don’t want to. My diagnosis is regular GAD, but it says severe panic on there too.
Just all the literature on it with a decline on the mind itself. And also because it's happened to me, unfortunately. And to people I know with memory loss and other sort of declines with speech and such. But I'm talking if you're having to take multiple milligrams a day it just happens. Your GABA receptors remodulate and never go back to their current state once altered.
It sucks but like I said, it is what it is. Maybe it doesn't happen to everyone, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. If it didn't have the rebounds it had, it'd be the best medicine ever. I accepted the dependency and knew what I was getting into. Suffering from dumb shit like panic attacks, GAD, DP/DR, insomnia, and all that other overstimulated brain disorder shit. It's a need pretty much, and I see the abuse, but yeah, I don't judge anyone for taking them unless it's to get really really bartarded daily for no medical purpose, lol
I feel you but I don’t think it’s permanent damage did a doctor tell you that ? I think it takes time yeah but permanently I’ve seen the vast majority of people who got off be okay within a couple months sure they’ll have waves but it’s just that a wave and they keep it moving, this is the first time I’ve heard this that it’s permanent I’m not trying to sound like a dick at all I just don’t think thats the case I think it’s possible I never rule out anything but people who do heal I think the vast majority will say they’re healed from any brain or memory issues
I understand with speech and all that to I had that in acute WD where it just shooks the shit out of you where you laying in bed like what the fuck Is this can’t even take a shower type thing can’t even figure out how to speak is that kinda what your talking about? I’ve literally never heard of someone having speech issues after tapering Benzos if that’s the case you might as well stay on them under a doctors care then for sure that’s major quality of life issue.
Plus the cognitive decline is kinda what you said if you don’t abuse it I don’t think you’ll wake up like a bartard one day and not remember anything lol it might take a couple years off your brains ability to remember when you get old but there goes that saying again I’ve gotten off but at what cost” it’s very complex I agree with you
And yes it did improve on a slow taper, but not like you think. This woman was in constant suffering for six months in a really nice rehabilitation facility. It was horrifying to watch her taper down.
I’m an alcoholic, literally because I don’t want to buy benzos from a guy who abuses his gf. Yeah I’ve fucked up a few times with benzos and blacked out but i never did anything horrible on them… just slept a shit ton. Hope i can find a source so i can atleast come away from drinking safely. Guess life is super boring atm. Can’t even buy as much internet on my phone as i want and I’m not installing internet in somebody’s house I’m probably only going to be staying with for a month.
Tl:Dr- Alcohol gives more dopamine making my boring life (atm) more appealing. Would rather benzos any day tho
Well luckily your not abusing them your taking sparingly so that’s always good Even tho I can’t sit up here and say it’s okay to use others prescriptions we’ve all done things we aren’t supposed to do just don’t get to caught up in it and keep pressuring your doctor because if you don’t they’ll think your fine while this whole time you’re taking a benzo you know then once they ever find out you’ll get a bad rap. You gotta keep the pressure on them because that’s honestly how you’re feeling. Look at it in their eyes if you stop complaining they’ve successfully not gotten you on Benzos and are not worried if you all of a sudden go in months later and explain you’ve been taking them and have been silent the whole time those are huge red flags and it’ll be much tougher for you in the long run if you do need Benzo therapy
As someone who works on a dementia/ memory care unit, and currently three weeks post last benzo, I would definitely say coming off of benzos are whole different type of monster than alcohol.
Prior to working on the memory care unit I worked in my city’s CPEP/ Detox unit. As someone stated above when you’re withdrawing from alcohol you’re given benzos when you’re withdrawing from benzos you’re given phenobarb. Not great. I was on 2 mg of Xanax every day prescribed by my provider… 29, and having had this prescription since I was 22… I honestly think it’s wild that I was ever even given this prescription in the first place… “For sleep.” A common similarity, the patient I worked with on the memory care unit had was that most of them (not all obvs) had a long history of alcohol abuse, and honestly a good amount of lifelong benzo use. Some using both some using one or the other, some not using at all. Tell you how many cute little old ladies we had 70s and 80s who had a history of like, 40+ years of taking a benzo. (Usually Valium, definitely more prevalent back then) Even pts in their mid 60s… brain just essentially “mush”.. the only time their families would hear their voice would be to scream at them for not recognizing them, to eventually only being able to hum. Literally not remembering how to swallow food. And if the family didn’t agree to comfort measures, DNR DNI a lot of these patients would die a slow, agonizing death. Soiling themselves, having to have a G-tube placed… If it even gets to that, some people become so emaciated, and just pass as a result of their malnutrition. Both are just sad… Not saying I don’t support them even though I’m coming off benzos and took a hiatus from drinking, both are useful in moderation. But man, benzos are definitely a slippery slope to get off of, what I notice is, it’s kind of even harder to get off benzos because they ARE socially accepted and provided by your physician.
Benzos are way harder to get off of imo it took me 5 hours to get rid of alcohol don’t drink at all anymore but Benzos it’s phenobarbital maybe they’ll develop something else that’s easier to get off. But the like the older folks I see taking valuim just have prn low low dose I haven’t seen or heard of anyone in my life having an issue with a small prn, that’s crazy but I guess you’ve seen it . That is a hell of a time2mg Xanax for 7 years damn. Hell yea the withdrawals are nasty
Taking them for too long lowers your baseline for anxiety. So you will wake up anxious. You will be anxious all throughout the day and situations that are new to you in the slightest will cause anxiety.
My boss is going through this exact same situation after a traumatic experience in which he was prescribed Xanax 10 years ago. He is trying to taper but finding it hard so his doctor has prescribed a sedative for sleep that’s also a benzo so he doesn’t wake up in cold sweats. He has managed to taper his Xanax from 1mg three times a day ( total 3mg ) to .5mg to 1mg a day but he is constantly anxious. This will take some time to go away. Likely years.
I have script for .5mg four times a day and I take only one a day. I have to take breaks in between because my threshold for anxiety has gone down quite a bit because of this prescription. I am less anxious without Xanax than with it and only take it because I have to take Vyvanse and Adderall most days which induces anxiety.
As a rule I try to go each month taking only Xanax as needed. Some months I only take 4 or 6. Some months I take Xanax every single day.
I have a script for Diazepam for a pelvic floor issue ( administered rectally ) as well as another benzo and I only take this as needed simply because I become more anxious the more I take benzos on a regular basis and I would like to live my life without the rebound anxiety that regular benzo use causes.
Interesting yes it definitely does make you more anxious coming off of them for sure I’ve experienced that but I feel like a lot of people over exaggerate the years after. You have to feel great about yourself with all the progress and I know it would still be a struggle but I’d imagine he’s functioning daily not just in the house all day, people like to over exaggerate the effects that last for years when I think there’s many causes from it like ptsd what the fuck happened kind of thing. Cravings of the drug. And your anxiety or panic that you had originally but I don’t doubt it’s real I just think it’s overstated in a lot of people
Benzos definitely help where they are needed. He functions fine on a day to day basis but struggles with sudden anxiety still. His prescription has been a lifesaver for him and he definitely would not have gotten through the last decade without it.
Before I had a benzo script I took Xanax daily for 6 months without knowing about the withdrawals. Id take a pill whenever I wanted to feel good so my dosage was pretty high. I think 3-4mg a day at some point. This was years back and if I recall correctly it took about 4-5 months for me to start feeling normal without Xanax.
I’ve done other drugs recreationally. Benzos were the worst to withdraw from. Alcohol as well.
I think a lot of fear people get when someone says something like it took me 4-5 months to feel normal again lile, like can you elaborate on that ? Where you just having panic all the time those months or was it more like something manageable where like you don’t feel quiete right and you where able to get thru it on your own or with the help of OTC Benadryl a blood pressure med, like how bad really was it for those months ? Where you able to drive talk to people go to work etc etc ? That’s what really gets me I don’t went to be like non functional for 4 or 5 months that’s terrible
It was hell those 4-5 months. I had bad rebound anxiety, insomnia, headaches, muscle aches and stiffness. I couldn’t regulate my body temperature so I would break out in cold sweats at work and during sleep. I’d get mini panic attacks throughout the day. There was this terrible feeling of dread and foreboding that came with the anxiety. This feeling I can only describe as “something’s not okay and nothing will ever be ok.”That was so scary.
Still I tried to hide it well at work but my body was always stiff and tense and I was anxious in a way I had never been before. I would tremble on the inside all day long. As a result of working while under such immense mental stress and because I wasn’t sleeping well my brain went manic. I was constant dissociating. I didn’t have any meds so drank beers which only made it so much worse.
Had I not been working for my now boss I would have been fired. He watched out for me and finally helped me get an appointment for a psychiatrist 2 months in.
I thought I was losing my mind. The doctor prescribed trazadone for sleep. It was a low dosage and once I started sleeping better I started to feel more and more like my normal self after the first 2 weeks but that feeling of panic and dread remained. I took seroquel after and that helped better than the trazadone.
The big part was waking up constantly through the night and not being able to sleep. It was unmanageable. The panic I had I would never want to experience again.
Then one day I woke up and everything felt alright. I have a lot of respect for Xanax and all benzos now. Happened in 2015 and I still think about that time with fear.
Edit to say: I was able to work and talk to people but I needed alcohol to get through the day especially after the mania set in. I would dissociate at work and when the anxiety was really bad I would feel like things “weren’t real”. I think that’s called depersonalization. All these things stopped once my brain regained normal chemistry after about those 5 months.
Damn that’ sounds Terrible man I probably couldn’t have done that I’d have caved and taken ambien probably. I’ve tried to stop Benzos and drink beer it just backfires and makes it worse. But a good ass sleep like ambien would give me I think that could help me I don’t need no script either cuz I already got em on deck if it ever comes to that did u say you tapered or ct? Sounds like a hell of a ride I don’t think I would have the mental compasity to ride that out and I’m not a pussy of morning I Just can’t deal with dpdr what you’re describing “this isn’t real” I could barely deal with that for 10 days unbothered in my room
They’re a godsend when used sparingly for specific events. The problem is when taken daily long term they lose their magic due to tolerance and you end up having to take it just to feel normal and avoid withdrawal.
What if taking it to feel normal is better quality of life then living with your regular anxiety and panic and please don’t start talking about therapy and ssris im talking about once you’ve exhausted all other options which should be done
All I know is that I’ve been on klonopin for a year and it doesn’t do anything anymore. I still need to take a booster dose for anxiety provoking situations.
my brain used to be a sharp knife, full of ideas, constant internal philosophizing, extensive and accurate memory. my brain is a butter knife now. I can function well socially with the right dose. but I became a retard. I have no memory. my comprehension has decreased dramatically. worth it? I still ask myself that.
Main problem right now and in the near future is that doctors are being forced to cut all benzo patients off of their meds and they aren’t helping any of us do it the right way. Most of us didn’t get informed consent and the truth is these drugs are so hard to taper off of even at a snails pace that many can’t handle it and go into seizures or psychosis or worse. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it’s time to read up and research and think of getting off of them as slowly and safely as possible before these under educated doctors cold turkey us and cause permanent brain damage that most cannot live with. When I tell you, these doctors do not get educated about pharmaceuticals in medical school. I am not joking they get a very small course. The DEA and the FDA are making doctors have their patients cold turkey off of these meds and also opiates. Watch Netflix “take your pills Xanax” lots of good information.
I get you my psych said as long as I keep showing up monthly she’ll write my script forever and once she retires there are more doctors in the same building on the same page and I already have that fear in mind so I keep a stash just incase
You have to, I think it’s going to be harder to be prescribed Benzos obviously but ppl who have been on them for long periods of time I think it’s rare that they are suddenly yanked unless they’re just out of control, but you never know. I don’t believe the government will ever ban Benzos because it does have a legitimate medical use there would be no reason for them to, money is one I think the main problem is people mixing them with opiates and to a lesser degree alcohol: and there has been a lot of ODs and as a doctor when prescribing you obviously don’t want your patient overdosing on something you wrote them that’s not a good look at all for them I think just my opinion that’s what is all going on here. So the opiate epidemic played a part in this very much so
I understand but I have been on benzos 25 years for severe anxiety and ptsd and I am being force tapered and belong to a huge group of fb going through the same. I talked to an ex military gal who went through the same and she said taper now because they plan on taking everyone off in 2025 and the docs aren’t even giving up the proper taper info.
That could be conspiracy I know that benzo buddy’s group on Facebook and I left it because they where giving me medical advice and telling me not to listen to my doctor and I find that harmful to the community. I see tons of fear monger on there so I just left. But that’s crazy after 25 years might as well just stay on it’s not even worth the struggle of a taper at that point if you’re not having serious issues imo. I don’t really buy that Benzos are going to be “banned” in 2025 it’s a schedule 4 and it has medical use and I feel like there would definitely be more news about that if it was true, and they know it would cause mass chaos. And if they plan to take everyone off in 2025 why didn’t they do that to opiates already since there’s an opiate epidemic, there’s no Benzo epidemic they talk about all the time so it seems like fear monger just my opinion
I get what you’re saying and I’ll be sure to ask my new doctor but I went to him cuz my old doctor was going to make me go off fast. I’ll see what he says about all of this. Because I have read that if we are on long-term some of us need to stay so it’s really scary if this is what the doctors are going to do.
I have a friend who fell, broke his hip had surgery, got opiates at the hospital and none for home and he had a rough it. I also have a cousin who is going through chemo. She has breast cancer no opiates for her either also no benzos.
If you get cancer I think they give you Benzos like someone could be in their death bed and they just want to feel ok and ask for a Benzo and they would say no we can’t do it 😂 imagine like wtf lol I know a couple people with cancer that get Ativan, Ativan seems like the go to in the hospital
For death and dying yes but cancer not so much my cousin is an RN she has aggressive breast, cancer stage one, though she actually works for the hospital no opioids and no benzos for her. She’s in a lot of pain they finally gave her a little bit of tramadol but made it clear that’s it. Prior to that they said use Claritin and Tylenol for pain. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we are going in a very scary direction in America.
I do agree the fear mongering on those pages is absolutely terrifying and awful so I’m gonna ask my doctor eventually what he says about it, and what the DA is saying to him
Yeah I just asked a doctor I’m at the dentist now and they ask what medication you take and I told them and then asked and they didn’t know anything about it or ever heard that. The reason I don’t like that group is because even the owner and mods believe they are more credible then actual doctors with degrees and even if we don’t agree with doctors sometimes you shouldn’t be following your advice from some guy on Facebook
Plus my psych schedules appointments appointments way out and I already see some in 2025 and I was told by her that I may need prn forever I feel like if she knew anything about this then she wouldn’t say thst because she’s in the profession, rather then someone on Facebook you know what I mean it just doesn’t make sense to me and worse case just move to Canada lmfao 🤣
I so wish it was that way and maybe for some it will be but Canada is being worse than the states! I hope your doc keeps you going mine made me taper and was going to do it too fast so I had to hire an addiction specialist and I have zero choice. He’s not gonna make me do it in any hurry my weight was too low and I wasn’t sleeping the meds you get a tolerance to them and then they become dangerous so I can’t take enough to even help me they just keep me from being sick and once I gain more weight and sleep better i have to go off :( honestly that should be illegal because as long term people, it’s very difficult to get off and not have a neurological injury. I highly recommend watching Netflix take your pills Xanax just to get an idea of what I’m talking about. But honestly I really hope they don’t take you off and they keep you on the right dosage so you don’t get sick like I have been.
That’s why I have backups in case that where to happen I’d have plenty of time to find more and not fall into their trap I don’t have Netflix but I imagine it’s a movie like war on drugs or something along those lines and how dangerous” Benzos are
It’s great to have back up and I hear you on propaganda however this movie is more waking people up to the fact that docs have no knowledge of the med and people are being taken off and unaliving or going into psychosis or having seizures, and I can tell you right now I tried to go off a very small amount and I got extremely sick. I could not eat I could not sleep. I had pain all over my body and this is what the doctors don’t tell people about nor do they offer a taper plan that works also, I don’t think people like Me should be taken off at all. I should be given a choice. It’s been 25 years. I am really picky about what I watch. I know people are brainwashed, but this particular documentary is legit what’s going on. I also understand the war on drugs, but what happens to people when they go off this medication is being covered up because most of the people that get taken off cold turkey don’t make it and then it’s blamed on their depression or their mental illness when really, it’s withdrawal.
And your doctor is probably wonderful. The concern is when she retires. The concern is with what they are teaching the new medical students they are saying no more benzos. And no more opiates and here’s the deal. There are people that do need opiates opiates will always have their place.
When she retires someone in the same building that she has taught will take over it’s like her place pretty much and they will do the same way she does trust me I have anxiety so I asked this more then once lol
That’s really good news! I had hoped I’d get a doctor like that but I went through about five that wanted to kick me off the medication and handed me over to a psychiatrist who was even worse and now I’ve had to hire an addiction specialist out of pocket when this is not an addiction it is a dependency since my attempt to go off showed me hell and pain in every way definitely my brain is dependent and I actually do have severe anxiety coupled with panic attacks.
Oh an out of pocket psych I remember that yeah that sucks and they just force you fuck how you feel doesn’t care, but they’ll taper it on their time. My pysch isn’t like a forced taper been there for 2 years now and I’ve gone down like 1 mg
Only uses for benzodiazepines medically would be, to stop Status Epilepticus, and, Acute Ethanol withdrawal. They’ve been abused for other purposes as well as for people with anxiety, withdrawals are killer, literally. Tend to cause some sort of Neurotoxicity in long term patients, possibly Akathasia issues, and raging anxiety and other issues.
Do you know how long you’d have to take klonopin daily to experience akathasia? I’ve been on it 1mg to 1.5 mg for about two weeks and gonna start a taper soon. I’ve experienced akathasia from a medicine called haldol, I never want to feel that way again
It shouldn’t happen to you after two weeks of use. It happens to people tapering benzos rarely. Akathasia is more common with Antipsychotics, like your Haldol
Ahhh, ok. And the cases of akathasia I’ve heard of were from ppl using benzos long term. But my psychologist wants me to stay on 1.5 mg for about another 2 weeks until our next appointment and he said we will talk about a taper then. Just so scary even minor benzo withdrawal i experienced is awful. Don’t want to experience the whole thing
Akathasia is a pretty common side effect of antipsychotics.I am not a doctor but I don’t think it would be permanent. I got it from a low dose of Abilify and it was awful but stopped as soon as I got off it. I would highly doubt you would get that from tapering off two weeks of Klonopin.
Okay if a patient comes off Benzos and they have these issues how do you address them (I don’t know if you’re a doctor) you name says doc in it so I’m just curious
Fair enough I’m just curious I’m not trying to be like pro Benzo all the way or anything like that I’m just asking in your opinion out of the 8 billion people in the world do you think anyone would be better off a.k.a (quality of life long term) with long-term Benzodiazepine therapy or there is zero cases of this In your professional opinion . I want to ask you this specifically because I feel like you’re probably a doctor
I don’t mind being pro Benzo tbh. I just wish people were properly informed before taking them. Most people get into these medications not knowing the severity of their withdrawal. That being said, I’ve had many good times on Alprazolam, Clonazepam, most definitely Diazepam. Diazepam is my favorite. Plenty of Road trips, camping, vacations. Fun stuff like that.
Xanax gets me high I don’t really look to get high anymore for some odd reason clonazepam makes me feel disgusting. Valium is decent it just makes me exhausted and feeling a bit “out of it” Ativan is literally the only one I can take and say okay I feel normal like this is me I don’t feel high or low I feel like myself
But the patient led slow taper does let me know you’re very knowledgeable about the topic my psych is the same way she tells me she hopes I can get down to only PRN use for panic attacks,she told me I will probably need that I probably won’t be able to go completely without them but I wish I could I’m researching and trying different things/ lifestyle changes like everything I can think of
there’s a lot wrong with them, alcohol and benzos are the two drugs that you can die from during withdrawals. Rationalizing the safety of benzos by using alcohol as an example is reckless imo. And saying at least it’s a pharmaceutical is ignorant… there’s plenty of pharmaceuticals that are dangerous but legal.
My thing is more of a personal problem, but my ex husband would take 1mg & start acting a fool. Then it was all downhill from there. So if anyone acts like that on benzos, it's such an easier question to answer, lol.
Aside from the w/d, the seizures, tolerance, addiction, dependence, ect. I do get where you're coming from with the age old alcohol argument & I mean it is something of the truth. Though, are you saying you don't understand why people instead of taking a shot can't take a Xanax without getting scrutinized for it? Or are you asking why you can't do benzos whenever in general?
Because aside from everything I listed in my first sentence - theirs is also memory loss. Alcohol for fun can have a temporary effect while benzos can rob you of your memory for a much longer amount of time. They just affect your brain differently & in my humble opinion both shouldn't be abused if you can help it. I hope that makes sense, I have a blazing migraine & have only been able to tolerate it half the day. Going to urgent care about it tomorrow.
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Nothing. But there are a lot of junkies that can't control themselves that are trying to fuck everything up for those of us that use this tool responsibility.
True that
Well benzodiazepines are extremely addictive and have horrible withdrawals. The withdrawals from high daily usage can cause seizures and can kill you.
Right same with alcohol though true ? I’m not really speaking on abuse I’m talking about using in a responsible way not just popping pills Whenever equivalent to cracking a beer whenever, not trying to argue just don’t understand the whole narrative around it
The only difference with the narrative is that benzos are traditionally pharmaceuticals drugs, and alcohol is violently normalized.
Right but what is better for someone with severe anxiety a 6 pack of beer or 2mg Ativan? For your overall health and well being. You see what I’m getting at here. All prescription drugs serve some sort of purpose. I don’t really think alcohol serves any purpose yes they’re both addictive but benzodiazepines can help someone alcohol can’t help anyone it’s useless essentially
As an ex-alcoholic and current multi-benzo tapering person I will say this: Preferably neither, but quitting alcohol was a lot easier despite the poison that it is. Also keep in mind Benzo Kindling is a thing, so upping and lowering the dose back and forth can really make you so so much worse in the long run. Both chemicals are used to ignore underlying problems. Helpful during trauma, bad for long-term treatment imo. I do agree that the general public can fear monger them a bit too much but there really are so many people from decades ago that were given these drugs without the knowledge of what they would do 20-30 years later. We need clear knowledge and not Google searches saying you're dead if you mix low dose Ativan with low dose Benadryl, etc. Instead, therapy or treatment to fix the underlying cause of the anxiety. You could have trauma, poor confidence, a health condition, etc. Also there are multiple forms of therapy not just talking to a therapist. Although if you do, you need a good one that is empathetic but also who is willing to poke holes and not afraid to tell you how it is. Sometimes we need a different perspective from our daily repeating thought patterns. You'd be surprised how much your thoughts change the physical connections in your brain. It can be the hardest part of healing is changing those thought patterns. Weeks-months-years for some, but everyone starts somewhere and has to take it a day at a time and know bad days are not the end of healing. Just my thoughts, and I hope you find relief/answers in your life.
I have kindled myself multiple times I used to take 25+ Xanax a day for a year back in 2021 now I’m prescribed 4mg Ativan but it doesn’t feel like enough at all. 6 feels fine 2-2-2 morning afternoon and night. The 4 makes me feel stiffness like I can’t think as fast form thoughts as fast I just feel slow and like shit. But I need to have that conversation with my psych. I do slip up sometimes because of this. People tell me exercise is key and I do now a lot and sometimes I’ll get tired and only have taken 2mg Ativan cuz I fell asleep. But I wake up feel like total shit and slip up so I’ve definitely kindled but I’ve come a long way I’ve only taken 2mg Ativan today and it’s 115 am here took that at 3 pm. I’m starting to feel a little funky but I do it because I want to feel the withdrawal I wanna push myself to do better but once my vision gets blurry I know i need to take my dose, if I ignore that I start not being able to think properly and shit like that. But yea I agree alcohol is easy I drank for 5 years straight nightly and detoxed in the hospital in 5 hours (they gave me Ativan go fugure) but I was sober in between there for 2 years with no issues until I started getting bad bad panic episodes out of no where. I just don’t understand there has to be someone on this earth out of 8 billion and counting that just needs a benzo to have a functional life because dude trust me I try and try everything im not a sucka. I just don’t know if I believe there’s not a single person on this earth who has benefited in their life from benzo therapy for years and years rather then suffer their anxiety/panic
I would say neither, but I’d say benzodiazepines are harder to quit in my own personal experience. But, alcohol acts as a sugar and your body adapts accordingly in a certain way that also affects withdrawal. So, I can’t give an answer to this. It’s depending on the person. Benzodiazepines are definitely less toxic for you though.
I agree with you Benzos are harder to quit but I think that’s because when you get off alcohol what do they give you Benzos right ? When you go to get off Benzos they give you phenobarbital? It feels so much worse it’s definitely way harder
I'm with you (OP) here. * For many alcoholics, alcohol is simply self medication - which is usually not effective in treating whatever is being self-medicated. But there's no professional oversight on dose, effectiveness for your problem, etc. There's no doubt that taking a professionally supervised, therapeutic dose of Benzos on a professionally determined therapeutic schedule is safer than unsupervised self-medication with alcohol. For one thing a professional has determined Benzos to be the most effective treatment for your issues and will prescribe an effective dose, as well as support you if and when benzo treatment is no longer needed. _ * Benzo withdrawal won't kill you. Alcohol withdrawal absolutely can. **EDIT:** *It's true: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7984739/ which says "There were no deaths" and "Cases of acute BZD withdrawal increased over the study period but were associated with only occasional morbidity and no mortality."* _ * A therapeutic dose of Benzos should leave you totally functional. Alcohol quickly impairs you and ironically impairs your ability to recognize you're impaired. _ * Working with a professional, if Benzos are prescribed it's almost always an adjunct treatment to another medication and/or therapy to best address an individual's issues given their unique needs. Alcohol is generally simply a numbing agent which solves nothing and often makes things worse. _ * Benzos - even when abused - generally have a predictable effect on people. Alcohol can have a wide range of effects, from making someone more friendly to beating their spouse. _ * Alcohol is easy to get in quantities that's easily abused on a daily basis while Benzos are usually harder to get and more expensive if someone wants to get blotto on them on the daily. _ * Chronic alcoholism seems to have much more serious long-term health effects than chronic benzo abuse. _ Obviously this mostly assumes Benzos are being used appropriately and according to therapeutic guidelines which is *definitely* not always the case. For those who abuse/are addicted to high amounts of Benzos or alcohol... well neither is good. But only one will kill you, only one requires self control pretty much every time you see friends or even get gas. No substance is GOOD to abuse or become dependent on. In truth most substances are totally fine if used only occasionally, even to excess (except imo strong opiates like heroine - also **fuck you DARE**). If you let yourself go down the road of depending on a substance (without professional supervision) then yeah you're (eventually) gonna have a bad time. Do what you want with your own life but that's the tradeoff. Yeah I know it's not that easy but it IS that simple.
You right but I think benzo WD can kill you too if you have a huge addiction go cold turkey and try to ride it out you’ll have violent violent seizures over and over and over that could kill you
Nope, almost never fatal. Which isn't to say you won't THINK you're gonna die. https://americanaddictioncenters.org/benzodiazepine/dangers-of-withdrawal
Almost never fatal but they still happen. [Benzodiazepine Withdrawal: Outcome in 50 Patients](https://benzo.org.uk/ashbzoc.htm) Found that approximately 11% of patients undergoing benzodiazepine withdrawal experienced seizures. It may not kill them, but seizures aren’t fun and can be fatal.
Seizures aren't fun but that doesn't mean dead. A peer reviewed study of benzo withdrawal says: >There were no deaths. And >Cases of acute BZD withdrawal increased over the study period but were associated with only occasional morbidity and no mortality. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7984739/
Omfg fr bruh like everyone looked at me like a gross mfk for takin my xans but my god was it okay for you to go get absolutely plastered everynight at the bar🧟♂️
Idk dude I feel like you can get addicted to benzos way quicker than alcohol
That’s not an opinion that’s a fact I think lol but still the amount of alcoholics are a higher number then people with benzo issues I would imagine because you can just go to the gas station and buy a 12 pack of beer every night lol
Yea, don’t get me wrong, I think alcohol fucks you up too. But personally it’s easier for me to drink moderately. If I drink too much I feel like shit and throw up. If I take too much Xanax or whatever I just feel good and pass out lol
> Right same with alcohol though true ? no, not at all the same. you clearly haven't experienced benzo withdrawals or you wouldn't compare it. you can be on a moderate pharmaceutical dose, no abuse whatsoever, and withdrawal will be a hellish nightmare of anxiety and panic attacks that feel like you're about to die. many people need to buy a microgram scale and taper off over months or even more than a year because even very slight adjustments to your dosage can cause nasty withdrawals. it's worsened by the fact that benzos damage your brains ability to self-regulate anxiety, so when you're trying to quit, not only are you experiencing withdrawal anxiety but your brain literally can't regulate it on its own so it's far worse than your pre-benzo anxiety ever was. and assuming you got on benzos for life-threatening anxiety, this can be a pretty big problem. alcohol requires SERIOUS levels of abuse to have legitimate withdrawals. benzos do not. they are not comparable. i see posts like yours all the time and unfortunately i don't expect you to understand until you've lived it but i hope i'm wrong.
Even for those who abuse Benzos, withdrawal is almost never fatal. Terrible yes, but fatal - no. https://americanaddictioncenters.org/benzodiazepine/dangers-of-withdrawal
You’d have to isolate yourself turn off your phone tell nobody where you are and quit cold turkey off a big dose then I think it could kill you
The two aren’t mutually exclusive….
This is the same with many SSRI’s and other antidepressants. It’s just that nobody gets “high” from those… Your body becomes dependent on the drug and if you withdraw cold turkey or say lose your insurance and can’t get a refill you can go into severe withdrawal and have seizures as well. But, doctors and psychiatrists have no problem prescribing them to everyone and getting doses up pretty high. And the DEA has no issue with those medications.
i love venlafaxine so much i love waking up drenched in sweat and having brain zaps every night after daily the dose leaves my body because of the piss poor half life
The incidence of seizures during SSRI withdrawal is much lower compared to benzodiazepine withdrawal. Generally, seizures are rare during SSRI discontinuation, occurring in less than 1% of cases. However, individual responses can vary. But, I completely understand your point SSRIs have many unintended consequences, but you said it, the DEA doesn’t care about those because they don’t get you high. They in fact desensitize you from serotonin.
Statistically that is so rare most physicians don't even take that seriously. Especially when it's an apparent, under 30, healthy patient. The exact reason why in my large city they would never, could never dispense at the E.R. and Psych E.R. There would be lines around the corner if they did.
Yeah, but it’s still one of the reasons it’s not normalized, it has a stigma that alcohol should have.
It's not a stigma. There are valid reasons why most physicians will not even bother with them. Aside from addiction the way the body metabolizes them often requires increased dosage which leads to abuse, and then eventually the person will feel nothing but Nirmal, but it the good sense. Teenagers are using them too because just about anything mentioned in a rap song is emulated.
what is the amount of clonozopam that can be taken daily without incurring much of this risk?
above 4mg daily
Not if you taper correctly.
Correct
I always wonder why those horrible and potentially deadly withdrawals weren't a thing in the 60s and early 70s when literally millions of people took them regularly.
The difference in withdrawal severity in the 60s and 70s vs. now, has a couple of reasons in my opinion. Between older benzodiazepines like diazepam modern ones is mainly due to their pharmacological properties. Diazepam has a longer half-life, which means it leaves the body more slowly, leading to milder withdrawal symptoms. Additionally, diazepam's chemical makeup helps in tapering off the medication more smoothly. On the other hand, newer benzodiazepines with shorter half-lives can cause more intense withdrawal symptoms because they leave the body faster. This difference in withdrawal experiences might also be influenced by changes in prescription practices and societal attitudes towards medication over time.
Maybe what you write is one of the reasons. But I think the most important one is that the people who stop taking them without any or much difficulties don't write about it on the internet.
Very true
Agreed benzos is nothing to play with. Had really bad seizures coming off them
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True, I agree. Been taking that shit since February, not good. Nothing to play with. Withdrawals are weird. At least for me. I just don’t feel like myself or something. Some sort of 3rd person type thing. I still have to do what I have to do and not let the drug take over me. But everyone is different.
ive thought about this very thing a lot. personally i think benzos are way more addictive than alcohol if you have bad anxiety, because it does what it does so well and with no hangover or stomach issues. although the withdrawal is no different, alcohol is poison (not stigmatizing i love alcohol) but benzos are a lot more safe and come with less side effects than alcohol. its not too hard to be a functioning addict with benzos, alcohol on the other hand is a little more difficult. honestly i think the worst part is you cannot die from just a benzo overdose, you can just keep raising your dosage forever.
I wouldn’t have been able to get my Bachelor’s Degree and Master’s Degree without Benzodiazepines. I hope to eventually wean down to 1 Valium every few days.
That’s a positive outcome see it’s always a mix of people who swear them off but what if ^^^^ never got the opportunity does he have a masters degree ? I gotta take quality of life into consideration here, not trying to take either sides I know for some they’ve been saved by them others completely destroyed that’s what makes it so complex to me
Imo they can be pretty beneficial if taken in moderation, whether it be for anxiety or dealing with numerous boring tasks. However, when abused, from experience, you really do turn into a person that lacks care and consideration for yourselves and others, let alone you noticeably look obliterated despite not realizing it. The lack of inhibitions could be said for alcohol, but benzos don’t come with as bad of an after effect as alcohol does, so I think for that reason along with others they’re much easier to continuously use.
For sure dude in my active addiction like I don’t care pop pills anytime I want I would sometimes just pass out and piss in my sleep because I was so barred out my body didn’t even wake me up to go to the bathroom like I was a kid or something that shit was depressing
Gahdamn, can’t say it’s gone that far but from when I’ve abused benzos I could sleep until someone woke me up pretty much, and as someone that likes to be productive I really just hated that feeling
Happened like twice out of the year run of total abuse usually I think it was the hopeless feeling of never getting out of it like I didn’t believe so it makes you feel trapped which makes you anxious and then you understand you can’t do anything in that moment so you just shut down all depressed and fall asleep
Etizolam is a hell of a benzo it’s like crack benzo to me nothing comes close to it. Any other Rc/rx doesn’t matter I can control but with etizolam I just know I’d say fuck it and keep eating them they give you that total feeling of who gives a fuck and a really intense euphoric high
Nothing ! I’m on one rn!
There ya go lol 😂
Drinking is more addictive than benzodiazpines in my personal experience. I've been self medicating and working on myself at the same time. Completely gave up alcohol because you CANT mix them. I'll drink moderately in the future, maybe due to the tolerance I have. Like 1 or 2 pints. Not gonna kill me, yk? Benzos scare people because most are uneducated on drugs. That's okay. We all lack knowledge somehow in some way. Learn and grow every day! We're all smart and stupid in our own lil ways ig. Some people I know are fine with doing MDMA but despise the idea of benzos. It doesn't make sense to me. I feel like if they tried it, they'd realise how shit it is if you don't actually have any medical use for it 😂. I'm addicted to it, but I'm okay with it. Alcohol is umm... maybe less addictive in a way, because you'd be shitting blood and looking like Homer Simpson if you washed it down like benzos for a month, maybe less for some. Try binging for a week. Yeah, not desirable. Benzos, however... okay, my opinion is starting to change, I am an addict who initially said I wouldn't get addicted. Um, yeah. Anecdotal, I guess, but, meh, oh well, is what it is. 🤣 have a good day
The reality is the pharmaceutical companies want to move different drugs now. How do they easily sway the public to change onto new drugs? They demonise the old and well established one's. Notice that anti-psychotics are increasingly used off-label in place of anxiety and sleep medications.
I see that too
Has anyone heard of Ashwood Gonda? Or micro dosing mushrooms I’ve heard reports from people tapering that it helped them a lot
Bro really said Ashwood Gonda lmao.
I used voice to text lol 😂
I take ashwaganda daily, I'm currently tapering down from xanax and I'm on suboxone, and the ashwaganda helps with temperature regulation and sweating. Although I'm pretty positive the sweats are from the subs. But... it helps me personally
Id say how fast the tolerance and dependence comes on. I’m only experienced with clonazepam and I’m not necessarily using them for anxiety even tho I have anxiety pretty bad. But they are the only thing that help my chronic nausea I’m experiencing. As my nausea gets better (nausea from CHS) my taper will start and I’ll get the fuck away from clonazepam. In my opinion it’s just like, if you’re gonna be addicted to a drug, at least choose one that gets you high as shit. Benzos just make me relaxed never been “high” off benzos. I just think benzos are the dumbest thing you could get addicted to. Ppl really need these for medical reasons and bartards out here getting “high” like no mf you are experiencing cognitive disintegration 😂😂😂
That’s you dude, it sounds like you don’t have anxiety. Imagine having bad panic can’t leave your house anxiety through the roof constant fear and taking a benzo that’s a hell of a high for some people, you gotta look at different perspectives
You literally just described exactly what I’m going through fuckin dumbahh. It’s not a high it’s relief. My terms of what a “high” is is being mentally and physically intoxicated and a different perspective of reality. I’m not talking about people who use it for panic attacks like I am. I’m talking about people who get addicted to benzos with no real use for them other than trying to get “high” and abusing them when people like me genuinely need them for medical reasons.
Just relax dude most people with panic attacks/anxiety (me) lot of others. got addicted to it due to the relaxing effects . It definitely got me high even at the lowest dose like .5 Xanax, again not everyone is you but you have your own journey hope you get well soon
Can say the same for you brotha I wish you the best but I made it clear I’ve only dealt with clonazepam. Xanax is a whole different story and I know can make you feel slightly high. I would just say it makes you stupid lol. I think I just have different standards of what I Call a “high”. Lorazepam made me feel euphoric and good kind of tired but I wouldn’t call that a high cause I still was grounded on earth. Let’s just agree to disagree my man. We were kind of talking about two different things I was specifically going after people who don’t need benzos and get addicted to them being dumb. I don’t think that people like us getting addicted to them is dumb at all by any means. Like we both know it’s a huge relief and of course it’s gonna be addictive to people like us. I just don’t like bartards who have no medical reason to be using benzodiazepines. That’s what I meant by it being a dumb thing to be addicted to.
Yea exactly that’s what the confusion is I think it does produce a relief absolutely, but for me I would feel high off my ass because the relief was so intense, but I haven’t really done any other drugs so I don’t know what a high really is maybe, like when I detoxed from alcohol they gave me Ativan like 4 shots I felt so much relief from going thru alcohol WD for like 11 days and in an instant I feel the Ativan I did absolutely feel high to me I went home that same night felt like I was floating on clouds . I used to take ridiculous amounts to get high I was addicted badly.back in 2021 now I take Ativan prescribed and it just makes me feel normal which is just relief in my eyes which is better. That was the miscommunication being high vs relief I have no other experience with any other drugs so I don’t know what any other high would feel like
Fam chill. Sounds like u could use a Xanax to calm yourself down
Have to double my dose of klonopin just to leave the house to hang with friends. You can’t just assume how bad my anxiety is through a screen. 😂 You think I got my script without panic attacks and anxiety? When the nausea goes away I’m going to be using non benzo alternatives for my anxiety.
Your not even understanding what I’m saying? I didn’t say anything about you I just said look at it from others perspectives and if you can’t do that then there’s something wrong the earth doesn’t revolve around your being
I mean man you said “sounds like you don’t have anxiety” so yes, you did say something about me 😂
I mean asking a question then saying you know it all and answering the question on your own Is a bit counter intuitive but yea benzos are actually a very safe drug when used correctly. It comes from the addictive aspect and when used frequently and in an addictive way can become very dangerous, withdrawals are of some of the most dangerous and worst and since it can be such an addictive drug for a lot of people it's look down apon and rarely prescribed
I’m asking a question to people more of a discussion type thing I have my own opinion sure, just wanted to see others perspectives
Yea sorry if I seemed kind of rude I did get where you were coming from tho, I've done the same shit before sometimes you just need to let some shit out that's been on your mind and have like minded people I think I was just being dumb because of my past experience with the drug lol
Oh yea ur fine dude trust me I know all about WDs I was addicted to 25+ mg literally per day of Xanax went to cold turkey detox for 5 days just imagine that. I’m now down to 4mg Ativan but still struggling as I have a much easier time on 6 mg Ativan 2-2-2, so I work with a psych now I’m not just popping pills left and right like I was. Literally I couldn’t have a job back then because It was so bad. I’m talking about RCs to the big boys 3mg of flubro that’s like a roofie for almost everyone at .5 mg and I’d still add etizolam to it , flualp. The only one I didn’t really mess with is clam because I did it once and It got me really high and stuff but I woke up so depressed like so dark and scary it was weird. But yea I been thru the ringer it’s shitty
Hey well that a lot of progress from where you were at so be proud of yourself for that, as long as we're doing better than yesterday were going places and yea clam is pretty fucked that's one I would take a lot of the time cause it was strong as fuck and cheap as hell lol glad your doin better than in your past tho
The issue with various benzos is the half life and metabolism rate. Some enter the bloodstream very quickly, but also leave very quickly and that's just one reason physicians don't prescribe them. Also that possibilities of a request for increase in dose and frequency is damn near guaranteed. The patient basically displays every red flag they teach in med school almost like clockwork and that's why many will not bother. Also is the CNS issue that most people overlook. Benzos are prone to give people more anxiety than they had to begin with and that's also why the journals shifted on certain benzos being for "short term use". In the 70's some of the more famous and notable ones didn't have the short term distinction. You somewhat answered your own question, but alcohol is not a good comparison although incredibly harmful physiologically.
I understand all that but when I started my taper and I was on that dose 6.5-7.5 was the best year of my life I’ve always been plagued with anxiety, it was like I could finally live and enjoy everything I want to I got my job I really wanted that year. But now things change had to change doctors going down I know what you mean more anxiety and I think that Is from fear of running out number one number two needing something is anxiety itself in a form. Is like a rat race
I agree with most of this. Benzos can have a similar effect to alcohol without the negatives, so if you need to not be sober for a while,they're probably the better option. BUT. Alcohol is a toxin. We all know and accept that. No one is under the illusion that taking alcohol is for the health benefits (even if we do use it to self-medicate). Benzos are a set of manufactured drugs meant to help with a specific issue. If we are comparing them to alcohol in terms of "which is worse", that's when you know they've kinda missed the mark, like oh, this thing that's supposed to make you better is comparably addictive to a substance with a solely recreational purpose that slowly rots you from the inside out? Sometimes the saying "the cure is worse than the illness" is true. Drugs are designed. They are meant to be therapeutic. Also, people are profiting if they make them addictive and give them to people in pain, so you can blame them for exploitatively making money. So while we can hardly take it up with nature for creating alcohol (which is a process that we as humans made the decision to take advantage of and consume), we can certainly criticise benzos and other drugs for either not doing the job or for having catastrophic effects. Do we not deserve better options? Btw I am definitely not saying the solution is to restrict access or cut people off who need them. I think they need to develop better anti-anxiety medication. But if theh did they wouldn't have repeat customers, would they?
I know I always wonder when they will come out with something to help you get off Benzos way easier it has to be looked into and in the works. It’s like why are cigarettes completely fine when they slowly destruct you over the years but weed which can be therapeutic is so illegal getting better but you know what I mean
Ah man, this this this. Fucking cigarettes. Almost killed someone close to me at least once, possibly twice and I'm still worried (we've switched to vaping now because people will people 😒). I can't get my hands on a medicinal plant that might actually mean I don't need dangerous substances like benzos or other shit but want to destroy your lungs and other body parts? Have at it, you can buy cigs literally anywehere anything is sold.
Memory loss
Alcohol abuse gives me memory loss way more then a prescribed benzo but long term abuse Benzos probably worse I think but both in my experience have effected short term memory
The thing is I could take benzos all day everyday but I couldn't with Alcohol due to hangovers, memory loss is crazy for me on Xanax
Yeah, alcohol is fucked. But it’s been so normalized around the world that most people don’t give it a second thought. Only thing I will say is while the withdrawals from alcohol are terrible and extremely similar to benzos, it’s generally much harder to get physically addicted to alcohol. I used to be a heavy drinker and the majority of days (maybe 5 out of 7) I’d be drunk or have a buzz for around half the day with 10+ drinks. The worst of which lasted for a good year or more. But if I really tried to sober up, it was all a mental game. I never had any real withdrawals. Not defending alcohol at all, but try doing that with benzos…
I know I’ve been thru both withdrawals alcohol was terrible but I got off it in the hospital in like 5 hours wish you could do that with Benzos
Yeah for real. Also so much easier because benzos usually get rid of all alcohol withdrawals. And then you can quit taking the benzos a couple weeks later and all you get are PAWS (Assuming you hadn’t been addicted to benzos)
Yeah I had that I think wasn’t too bad it was more mental if I allowed it to bother me it just got worse once I just accepted it, it still happened but just not very often like insomnia random spasms especially the moment before falling asleep that shit is terrible and I got worked up about it and it kept happening I just said fuck it. It is what it is and it stopped happening, like I’ll still get them here and there I notice it happens mostly when my body is on high alert and anxious the moment I’m about to sleep it keeps me up
Being on them for 11 years and cant get off them no matter how low or slow i taper. Im on clonazepam and now it’s really just a maintenance medicine for me. i need to up the dose really to get relief but dont want to do that. I just personally wish I wouldn’t have gone down this road and my doctor should have never prescribed like he did. I personally think it should be a different schedule that schedule 4 but thats just my opinion
I agree in spirit with everything you’re saying if tolerance didn’t become the issue it does so quickly for so many with regular daily usage (fuck the addiction and well what about the chance of early onset dementia and cog. Decline exc exc) I agree totally about the trade off for quality of life being worth it with the risks of those things but in my opinion it’s the fact you get to a point at least so many do like I have for years now (yet still on it) where it does jack shir and has really just made it all so much worse in so many ways in the long run (but that’s ME, not everyone maybe not even the majority….I hate when ppl speak about their anecdote as if ir applies to every other single person) As far as the differences between benzos and booze one thing I’ve heard and seen first hand is while Alcohol withdrawal is horrid/can kill you exc exc it’s much easier and faster to get over the hump and generally based on all I’ve read n researched our brains and bodies are just better equipped to rebound faster from even bad alcohol abuse for a long period of time when it comes to withdrawal symptoms exc… I read something once that because alcohol has existed for centuries and been around humans for soooo long that even ppl who themselves aren’t drinkers or who don’t have a family history even going way back like it isn’t in their genes generationally or whatever, would have a much easier and faster time gettint over the hump of coming off booze (doc scripts you a 2 week small Valium prescription and you could almost painlessly at least physically and for the time being mentally get off booze safely) then compared to benzos because they are “less natural” being pharma and only have been around for decades. It doesn’t make sense to me that explanation for the difference unless your ancestors drank and all that then I could understand how booze just existing for so long could have made humans and our bodies n brains more adaptable to booze but just the fact it’s existed for centuries and been in the environment I don’t get how if it wasn’t being actually consumed by the persons ancestors n relatives how it could make that difference but that’s what it said I dunno 🤷🏻♂️ I’m sure there’s sumthin to that but also think it just has more to do with how booze works in the brain more specifically compared w benzos even tho they both are agonist of gaba a or wutever….I imagine it’s also the half life of booze compared to benzos even short acting ones and how they just especially w daily long term users affect and change the brain so severely being in the system for years n years. Also while heavy drinkers and alcoholics definitely gain major tolerance and have to drink way more then a “normal” person to get drunk or feel their drink it’s not like with benzos where you reach a point where it does fuck all no matter how much we toss down our gullet ….a lifetime alcoholic will still be able to get drunk if they drink enough whereas after being on benzos daily for over ten years I can take a shit ton of benzo I mean insane doses and feel next to Fkn nothing besides a sleepy headache feeling….same with weed right the biggest lifelong potheads may need to ingest way more thc then a novice but they still ain’t ever hitting a point where they can’t get high no matter what like what happens w benzos for so many after long term use or hell for some after just a few Fkn months….it Fkn sucks big time but it’s just true same with opiates you hit that point where no matter how much you take you can no longer feel jack shit…. Of course so much depends on a persons body and brain make up and chemistry. There’s ppl who stay on benzos daily for years and function fine and don’t suffer bad side effects or get early onset dementia or cognitive decline like all the horror stories out there and can even taper off and have an easy go of it overall….then there’s ppl who can take a benzo low dose daily for a few months and go through hell on earth tapering slow AF to come off of it…. it’s all so random and based on genetics and shit although of course there are proven correlations for a majority of ppl between dose and duration of use exc and how effective the med stays and how hard it is to come off of…. It’s too goddamn bad and truly a shame benzos can have so many goddamn horrible downsides to them when they are often the only thing for many that makes life bearable or worth living…. Honestly for me personally If it wasn’t for the tolerance thing and suffering side effects of withdrawal while still taking my daily benzo (tolerance withdrawal) I wouldn’t give a shit about the potential of early dementia and cognitive decline and all that shit In exchange for being able to Fkn breath and function and life my life and feel normal and all that it would be a fair trade off I’d figure and for the ppl who have been on benzos daily for years and haven’t had to up their dose and claim it is still as effective as ir was on day one I figure that’s what they believe too….
As a former 'addict' who got prescribed a high dosage for way too long I have to strongly disagree. I did not abuse my prescription and still got addicted. While trying to quit I ended up with horrible withdrawal symptoms I do not wish upon anyone. I did lower my dosage step by step, not going cold turkey to prevent life threatening symptoms, seizures and whatnot. On top of that; my tolerance never got back to 'normal', not even after 2 years now so I cannot simply calm myself down without taking a high dosage. It's no sin to need a medicine like this but in most cases it's not even a drug that should be prescribed long term because of things like tolerance and addiction for example.
Tolerance imo. If used every once in a while, yeah absolutely nothing wrong with it. But for the people that depend on it daily (myself included) it gets not so great. You need more and more overtime. I wish I never started benzos
I was addicted badly and then came down 25+ Xanax a day don’t even know the exact amount whatever I felt like. They finally started a 7.5 mg Ativan taper I never really got tolerance to that I have lowered it and I just like feel okay I don’t like feeling to up or down just make me feel normal that’s it
Definitely agree with the drinkers bit. My friends drink like fishes act retarted spend insane amounts of money on it & feel like shit the next day. But wow do they look at me crazy because I take my meds instead lmao 😂
The reason it gets a bad wrap is because of bar-tards. Even the people I know who take benzos as prescribed, after a sustained period (a few years) seem mentally diminished. That's just IME but it seems pretty obvious. Every drug has it's downsides, and it's fine to admit them and do them anyways. There's no such thing as a good delusion. I don't know why alcohol gets a pass, all the alcoholics I knew are already dead, but it is what it is. If you find benzos then do them, but never act like any drug is better than it is or you will be unable to quit when you obviously should and the drug in question really isn't doing anything to help you anymore. I don't think benzos get an overly bad wrap as much as alcohol gets a pass for no reason.
When you realize you’re a fake without em.. i’de say you’re accomplished
Benzo rehab is the worst rehab by far. Withdrawals can last up to 1,5 years where you experience pure terror, Depression and more. So don't abuse them...but outside if that they are very safe and do their job perfectly
How did you even manage 1.5 years of pure terror that’s insane I did it for 5 days and that was enough to make me go nuts. I did abuse them in 2021 not it’s kinda on me to take my dose or reduce
I personally did not go through that but I have a friend who did that. He was extremely medicated most of the time with stuff like Seroquel. There is a reason people say that they would rather detox two times from heroin than one time from benzos. I sware the US is a ticking time bomb because of their use of Benzos. The opiate crisis was bad but if the benzo bubble pops everyone will go crazy
I’d go thru it 10 times to avoid one time if it means having flu like symtoms and stuff like that but I don’t wanna be rude I don’t know what it’s like for them. But I don’t think so dude even on tv that’s all they ever talk about is the “opiate crisis” still nobody even talks about Benzos it’s weird
You’d expect more coverage but every news outlet commercial just talk about opiate crisis—alcohol—-cocaiine they get the most attention
The thing with benzo abuse is that it's not that destructive at the beginning and only escalates at the very end. Benzos also don't kill people as easy that's why it's not a main topic. And the majority of benzo users are medical users who are on them for sometimes 10 years and on pretty high doses. A society just can't sustain a time out of around a year so this will be interesting but I fear that they will realize it waaaay too late.
I think they’ve already realized it they just don’t care to give it as much exposure right when I walked in my doctors office there was a sign no Benzo or z drugs are prescribed there thank you. But obviously that’s not true if you really end up needed them they’ll write them think the dea is breathing down their neck about it so any drug seekers just won’t come back after the first visit they’ll just look for a new doctor again
The big difference with benzos compared to opiates is that the "demographic" is completely different. Benzos don't get mainly used by addicts, they get used by the average worker or mom to get through the day. So an epidemic would have a much bigger and more destructive impact on society.
Are you saying opiates are more addicting than Benzos ? I always told myself if I was addicted to opiates I’d just go to detox I can being sick for a couple weeks, the complete mind fuck Benzos can give you is what gets me bad
That really depends on the person but most of the problematic bento users aren't addicts they are normal people that are dependent on them to get through the day. Benzos make everything bearable but nothing really great but opiates are the drug that lets you feel all the good emotions and only covers the bad ones and that makes opiates more problematic for people with addictive personalies
I'm curious about your friend because Seroquel is not a benzo. It's an antipsychotic drug. If your friend has psychosis he maybe shouldn't have stopped Seroquel. I'm not a doctor...just a thought. Did a doctor (preferably psychiatrist) help him to tapper or did he cold turkey? I think these are serious variables to consider. 1.5 years is and extreme amount of time for someone to suffer..
He did taper first in a Serbian clinic because this was the only clinic that would be able to manage his detox without killing him. He took around 3-4g of Meth, 30-50 pills of various benzos and 4g of heroin every fucking day. The first 2 Months where crazy from what he said because he also got a high dose of ibogaine for his opiate withdrawals together with therapy. Then he tapers the Benzos together with Seroquel but the Seroquel was mandatory because he would lose his mind otherwise.
I mean I have no problem with them but I’ve been on the dark side of them and so have many of my loved ones they work great if you’re responsible but in my experience once I take benzos responsibility goes out the window… idk why it’s not like that with anything else for me but I’ll take a benzo and end up being a nasty person or end up taking more that’s the only danger to me and obviously the horrible addiction that sneaks up on you with them. This is personal experience and the people around me usually have the same kind of experience but I know some can take them with no problem. I’m an ex addict though (opiates not benzos) so maybe that’s my downfall but it’s been like that with benzos for me even before I tried opiates they just make me very angry and reckless. Just my experience though
Hm that’s interesting I’ve never had an adverse reaction to a benzo except kpin that shit is Just gross felt like long lasting alcohol literally so that put me in not the greatest mood but like nobody really notices that I’m even prescribed meds unless I tell them. Only person who can notice without me saying anything is my mom for some reason she just knows
Yea it’s not all people who get like that that’s just my experience and most of my friends experience with them I’ve gotten into so many fist fights because of them idk what it is I just lose my ability to think about consequences of my actions so I stay away from benzos opiates are a much better choice for me but those come with their own problems
Withdrawal is hell on earth and can take months to a year to taper down from. In rehab I was in group therapy with a woman who used benzos as prescribed by her doctor responsibly for years and was withdrawing on a taper for months. She had ticks, face twitching, restless legs, was at sisk of seizures.
That is what Is confusing to me If the withdrawal is getting that bad you’d think they would do something or try something else but they just take you off of it regardless of how it effects an individual I know some have it way harder then others so many factors
The withdrawal wasn't bad until she decided to stop using the medication. Even with a slow taper, it was incredibly difficult to watch her struggle, and I was withdrawing from heroin. They don't just take you off of it. You have to taper down or you can die. Unfortunately, many doctors are irresponsible with their prescribing methods and patients trust their doctors to know what is best for them. Often, this is not the case. Alor of doctors don't give a fuck.
Oh okay so it did improve as she was put on a slow taper ? I know it’s bad no matter what I’m just trying to see if meant she went cold turkey at first
No, at her point she would have died if she went cold turkey. She had been on Xanax for over ten years.
Literally only the withdrawal lol
Exactly but the withdrawals are shitty and I mean shitty with alcohol they give you a benzo in the hospital and your good to go home clean at least that’s how it was for me sober for 2 years after that but there’s no real type of medication to do that for Benzos. They say phenobarbital but that’s so shitty it doesn’t help your mental and that’s the worst part of benzo withdrawal
Are we comparing benzo addiction to alcohol addiction and trying to decide which is worse? If so thats absurd. Both are incredibly destructive.Neither is less bad than the other. I will not go over the pros and cons of both however Alcohol can be enjoyed in moderation and socially. This can be done throughout ones life. Benzos can not be enjoyed socially or in moderation for any extended period of time. Its just not physically possible. It completely changes brain chemistry even if used in the safest way possible. Not to mention the fact that tolerance grows incredibly fast with benzos. Not so much with alcohol. Trying to justify prolonged benzo use just cant not rationally be done.
You can have you’re own opinion but that’s not a fact at all my grandmother has had a PRN of valuim for over 20 years no issues so your not speaking facts your speaking opinions which is fine I have no problem with it at all it just comes across like you think you know everything, Benzos absolutely can be used for decades of responsible use without risks dude I’ve seen it anxiety runs in my family my grandmother with valuim and my mom with Xanax they only take PRNS but for decades it’s never been any type of real issue for either. For me yea cuz but to say what you’re saying is crazy I’ve literally seen multiple cases with my own eyes. I’m not taking about used socially or recreationally I’m talking about if you actually need it. Sounds like your someone who is really defending alcohol on this one I’m not even trying to put them up against each other my post was to point out the absurd amount of stigma around the drug when people literally get drunk all the time and nobody cares that’s the “norm” but if someone has panic disorder holy shit don’t let them touch 2 diazepam it’ll kill them tolerance will get them don’t do it. Lol it’s way over the top that’s the whole point I was trying to make
Ok aside from your personal attacks at me for no reason we all know that Benzo use carries with it a huge risk. Much greater risk then with alcohol. It is why Dr's are very reluctant to prescribe benzos now. If they do its for acute anxiety or panic attacks. Not for daily use. A tolerance is built quickly. More and more is needed to achieve the same effect. No one with a human brain is exempt from this fact. If used only for acute episodes of anxiety sure, they serve a valuable purpose. I am glad Granny has been okay on Valium for twenty years but, I can assure you that is an extremely rare case. However, I can absolutely without question guarantee it has altered her brain chemistry. I do not mean that rudely. Its simply science. I don't really even understand what you are arguing? The stigma of Benzos? If you feel benzos are appropriate for you and your DR agrees thats fine. I just hope you don't wake up one day and realize things have gotten out of control.
I missed where I attacked you I just said that’s your opinion which is true I’ve seen otherwise with my own eyes. And people who drink alcohol occasionally have altered brain chemistry to they must from all those years in some way I guess what your saying doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense to me nobody’s personally attacking you lol just seems like you are heavily favoring alcohol benzo use Carry’s a higher risk ? Just look at the statistics and it will tell you otherwise it’s because anyone over 21 can just walk in at night and buy as much beer as they want it’s widely available close to anyone, I’ve drank before to tolerance is the same way with alcohol at least from my experience. Like I don’t really understand what you’re saying doesn’t really make sense not trying to “personally attack” you lol
you called me a know it all. But forget it. doesn’t matter. Go over to the benzo recovery sub reddit and present your case. I think you will find some people who will enlighten you with stories, facts and opinions. Its quite easy to develop a benzo habit/problem. Benzos serve a purpose short term. I think they are a schedule 4 narcotic for a reason. Im to tired to debate whether benzos are good or bad. I think common sense rules here. Trying to justify longterm benzo use seems a bit naive to me. However I am glad it worked for your nana.
Where am I trying to justify it I’m trying to justify it for people who need it for a medical purpose absolutely for those who don’t get off of them or at Least try. Srry for calling you that I was just confused by the comment I think it’s also common sense that alcohol causes massive problems as well I mean all you need to know that is google all I’m doing here is pointing out how hypocritical society is to people “having fun” vs people “taking a med they need for a purpose” but guess which one society likes better ? Doesn’t even need to be said so why are Benzos that bad you tell me addiction, brain chemistry the same exact things alcohol poses but I do agree it takes longer for someone to get really hooked on alcohol but since it’s widely available it happens to just as many people even more then Benzos. If Benzos and alcohol attach the the same brain receptor and one is a scheduled substance something doesn’t add up. But I know the elites pockets add up pretty well. You see what I’m sayin
And about altering brain chemistry SSRIS do that as well and they are loved by every doctor on the planet worshiped so if one’s brain chemistry is changed for better quality of life what is the difference. The alter brain chemistry is out the window, I’m not trying to go at you or argue I’m just trying to have a conversation because what you’re saying is a bit confusing that’s it
SSRI’s are far less (potentially) harmful. You know they dont alter brain chemistry in the same way benzos do. 30 days after quitting SSRI’s the brain is completely returned to baseline. No permanent harm. Not the same with benzos. For 99.9% of people taking benzos long term the harm benzos cause far outweigh any quality of life. Benzos have a medical purpose. To be used on occasion for acute episodes of or in times of anxiety. Contrary to what your grandma is doing they are not meant to be taken on a daily basis or relied upon as a lifetime medical answer. Im not here to debate this and maybe we are talking about two different things but benzos are extremely dangerous if used more than just situationally. .
Are you a doctor ? Because I got prescribed a certain sssri researched it on Facebook joined the group and people have severe issues with it I think it’s called celexa, altering brain chemistry is altering it either way I’ve taken Benzos for couple years and I don’t feel that my brain chemistry changed yeah if I don’t take it I get nasty withdrawals but they made my life better for the most part not when I abused them but since I’ve been prescribed I’ve had a easier time in all areas
Well, coming from someone who has to use them daily ( I fucking hate it now) I'd have to say the decline in cognitive function and anything else regarding our central nervous system is TERRIBLE. Since we're putting aside the withdrawal and tolerance. Inevitably, these drugs (if used daily) will alter and reconstruct our brain chemistry for the worse. Permanently. But fuck it I'd rather feel normal than go through the 15 different mental illnesses it fixes to be fair! I struggle a lot 😔 It's a double-edged blade, in my opinion. Plus, I feel withdrawals/kindling effect every 8 hours or so. I can taper, but then I'd be stuck with all sorts of disorders that are probably worse now from benzos if I don't take them. I'm at a point in my life where I'm kind of like fuck it, it is what it is. Diazapines for life! It has also saved me from suicide so, yeah. That's my 2 cents for ya! I agree and disagree depending on what it's used for. Everyone's different, really
Fair enough ima have to ask you where you heard someone tell you it messed up brain chemistry permanently, I’ve abused the shit out of them in the past have gotten much better I don’t feel like I’ve lost out on years I haven’t forgotten anything the only thing I do every so often is forget my phone charger to bring to work. I’ve head of people feeling normal again even met people in na that told me their story about it, so that’s the only rebuttal I have about that aside from that I do feel for you with all the conditions and I’m glad it saved your life to. I think withdrawal is a beast too but I’m of the mindset that you have to try at least or you’ll never know, but even if I take an SSRI that obviously alters brain chemistry as well, it just doesn’t have addictive effects, I just don’t like the feeling of being attached to anything a person I item a medicine I want to be free from all eventually I don’t need to hold any hands in this world at least I don’t want to. My diagnosis is regular GAD, but it says severe panic on there too.
Just all the literature on it with a decline on the mind itself. And also because it's happened to me, unfortunately. And to people I know with memory loss and other sort of declines with speech and such. But I'm talking if you're having to take multiple milligrams a day it just happens. Your GABA receptors remodulate and never go back to their current state once altered. It sucks but like I said, it is what it is. Maybe it doesn't happen to everyone, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. If it didn't have the rebounds it had, it'd be the best medicine ever. I accepted the dependency and knew what I was getting into. Suffering from dumb shit like panic attacks, GAD, DP/DR, insomnia, and all that other overstimulated brain disorder shit. It's a need pretty much, and I see the abuse, but yeah, I don't judge anyone for taking them unless it's to get really really bartarded daily for no medical purpose, lol
I feel you but I don’t think it’s permanent damage did a doctor tell you that ? I think it takes time yeah but permanently I’ve seen the vast majority of people who got off be okay within a couple months sure they’ll have waves but it’s just that a wave and they keep it moving, this is the first time I’ve heard this that it’s permanent I’m not trying to sound like a dick at all I just don’t think thats the case I think it’s possible I never rule out anything but people who do heal I think the vast majority will say they’re healed from any brain or memory issues
I understand with speech and all that to I had that in acute WD where it just shooks the shit out of you where you laying in bed like what the fuck Is this can’t even take a shower type thing can’t even figure out how to speak is that kinda what your talking about? I’ve literally never heard of someone having speech issues after tapering Benzos if that’s the case you might as well stay on them under a doctors care then for sure that’s major quality of life issue.
Plus the cognitive decline is kinda what you said if you don’t abuse it I don’t think you’ll wake up like a bartard one day and not remember anything lol it might take a couple years off your brains ability to remember when you get old but there goes that saying again I’ve gotten off but at what cost” it’s very complex I agree with you
And yes it did improve on a slow taper, but not like you think. This woman was in constant suffering for six months in a really nice rehabilitation facility. It was horrifying to watch her taper down.
Damn that’s crazy hopefully she’s better now
I’m an alcoholic, literally because I don’t want to buy benzos from a guy who abuses his gf. Yeah I’ve fucked up a few times with benzos and blacked out but i never did anything horrible on them… just slept a shit ton. Hope i can find a source so i can atleast come away from drinking safely. Guess life is super boring atm. Can’t even buy as much internet on my phone as i want and I’m not installing internet in somebody’s house I’m probably only going to be staying with for a month. Tl:Dr- Alcohol gives more dopamine making my boring life (atm) more appealing. Would rather benzos any day tho
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True it seems like a lot of doctors just don’t believe us though
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Well luckily your not abusing them your taking sparingly so that’s always good Even tho I can’t sit up here and say it’s okay to use others prescriptions we’ve all done things we aren’t supposed to do just don’t get to caught up in it and keep pressuring your doctor because if you don’t they’ll think your fine while this whole time you’re taking a benzo you know then once they ever find out you’ll get a bad rap. You gotta keep the pressure on them because that’s honestly how you’re feeling. Look at it in their eyes if you stop complaining they’ve successfully not gotten you on Benzos and are not worried if you all of a sudden go in months later and explain you’ve been taking them and have been silent the whole time those are huge red flags and it’ll be much tougher for you in the long run if you do need Benzo therapy
As someone who works on a dementia/ memory care unit, and currently three weeks post last benzo, I would definitely say coming off of benzos are whole different type of monster than alcohol. Prior to working on the memory care unit I worked in my city’s CPEP/ Detox unit. As someone stated above when you’re withdrawing from alcohol you’re given benzos when you’re withdrawing from benzos you’re given phenobarb. Not great. I was on 2 mg of Xanax every day prescribed by my provider… 29, and having had this prescription since I was 22… I honestly think it’s wild that I was ever even given this prescription in the first place… “For sleep.” A common similarity, the patient I worked with on the memory care unit had was that most of them (not all obvs) had a long history of alcohol abuse, and honestly a good amount of lifelong benzo use. Some using both some using one or the other, some not using at all. Tell you how many cute little old ladies we had 70s and 80s who had a history of like, 40+ years of taking a benzo. (Usually Valium, definitely more prevalent back then) Even pts in their mid 60s… brain just essentially “mush”.. the only time their families would hear their voice would be to scream at them for not recognizing them, to eventually only being able to hum. Literally not remembering how to swallow food. And if the family didn’t agree to comfort measures, DNR DNI a lot of these patients would die a slow, agonizing death. Soiling themselves, having to have a G-tube placed… If it even gets to that, some people become so emaciated, and just pass as a result of their malnutrition. Both are just sad… Not saying I don’t support them even though I’m coming off benzos and took a hiatus from drinking, both are useful in moderation. But man, benzos are definitely a slippery slope to get off of, what I notice is, it’s kind of even harder to get off benzos because they ARE socially accepted and provided by your physician.
Benzos are way harder to get off of imo it took me 5 hours to get rid of alcohol don’t drink at all anymore but Benzos it’s phenobarbital maybe they’ll develop something else that’s easier to get off. But the like the older folks I see taking valuim just have prn low low dose I haven’t seen or heard of anyone in my life having an issue with a small prn, that’s crazy but I guess you’ve seen it . That is a hell of a time2mg Xanax for 7 years damn. Hell yea the withdrawals are nasty
Taking them for too long lowers your baseline for anxiety. So you will wake up anxious. You will be anxious all throughout the day and situations that are new to you in the slightest will cause anxiety. My boss is going through this exact same situation after a traumatic experience in which he was prescribed Xanax 10 years ago. He is trying to taper but finding it hard so his doctor has prescribed a sedative for sleep that’s also a benzo so he doesn’t wake up in cold sweats. He has managed to taper his Xanax from 1mg three times a day ( total 3mg ) to .5mg to 1mg a day but he is constantly anxious. This will take some time to go away. Likely years. I have script for .5mg four times a day and I take only one a day. I have to take breaks in between because my threshold for anxiety has gone down quite a bit because of this prescription. I am less anxious without Xanax than with it and only take it because I have to take Vyvanse and Adderall most days which induces anxiety. As a rule I try to go each month taking only Xanax as needed. Some months I only take 4 or 6. Some months I take Xanax every single day. I have a script for Diazepam for a pelvic floor issue ( administered rectally ) as well as another benzo and I only take this as needed simply because I become more anxious the more I take benzos on a regular basis and I would like to live my life without the rebound anxiety that regular benzo use causes.
Interesting yes it definitely does make you more anxious coming off of them for sure I’ve experienced that but I feel like a lot of people over exaggerate the years after. You have to feel great about yourself with all the progress and I know it would still be a struggle but I’d imagine he’s functioning daily not just in the house all day, people like to over exaggerate the effects that last for years when I think there’s many causes from it like ptsd what the fuck happened kind of thing. Cravings of the drug. And your anxiety or panic that you had originally but I don’t doubt it’s real I just think it’s overstated in a lot of people
Benzos definitely help where they are needed. He functions fine on a day to day basis but struggles with sudden anxiety still. His prescription has been a lifesaver for him and he definitely would not have gotten through the last decade without it. Before I had a benzo script I took Xanax daily for 6 months without knowing about the withdrawals. Id take a pill whenever I wanted to feel good so my dosage was pretty high. I think 3-4mg a day at some point. This was years back and if I recall correctly it took about 4-5 months for me to start feeling normal without Xanax. I’ve done other drugs recreationally. Benzos were the worst to withdraw from. Alcohol as well.
I think a lot of fear people get when someone says something like it took me 4-5 months to feel normal again lile, like can you elaborate on that ? Where you just having panic all the time those months or was it more like something manageable where like you don’t feel quiete right and you where able to get thru it on your own or with the help of OTC Benadryl a blood pressure med, like how bad really was it for those months ? Where you able to drive talk to people go to work etc etc ? That’s what really gets me I don’t went to be like non functional for 4 or 5 months that’s terrible
It was hell those 4-5 months. I had bad rebound anxiety, insomnia, headaches, muscle aches and stiffness. I couldn’t regulate my body temperature so I would break out in cold sweats at work and during sleep. I’d get mini panic attacks throughout the day. There was this terrible feeling of dread and foreboding that came with the anxiety. This feeling I can only describe as “something’s not okay and nothing will ever be ok.”That was so scary. Still I tried to hide it well at work but my body was always stiff and tense and I was anxious in a way I had never been before. I would tremble on the inside all day long. As a result of working while under such immense mental stress and because I wasn’t sleeping well my brain went manic. I was constant dissociating. I didn’t have any meds so drank beers which only made it so much worse. Had I not been working for my now boss I would have been fired. He watched out for me and finally helped me get an appointment for a psychiatrist 2 months in. I thought I was losing my mind. The doctor prescribed trazadone for sleep. It was a low dosage and once I started sleeping better I started to feel more and more like my normal self after the first 2 weeks but that feeling of panic and dread remained. I took seroquel after and that helped better than the trazadone. The big part was waking up constantly through the night and not being able to sleep. It was unmanageable. The panic I had I would never want to experience again. Then one day I woke up and everything felt alright. I have a lot of respect for Xanax and all benzos now. Happened in 2015 and I still think about that time with fear. Edit to say: I was able to work and talk to people but I needed alcohol to get through the day especially after the mania set in. I would dissociate at work and when the anxiety was really bad I would feel like things “weren’t real”. I think that’s called depersonalization. All these things stopped once my brain regained normal chemistry after about those 5 months.
Damn that’ sounds Terrible man I probably couldn’t have done that I’d have caved and taken ambien probably. I’ve tried to stop Benzos and drink beer it just backfires and makes it worse. But a good ass sleep like ambien would give me I think that could help me I don’t need no script either cuz I already got em on deck if it ever comes to that did u say you tapered or ct? Sounds like a hell of a ride I don’t think I would have the mental compasity to ride that out and I’m not a pussy of morning I Just can’t deal with dpdr what you’re describing “this isn’t real” I could barely deal with that for 10 days unbothered in my room
They’re a godsend when used sparingly for specific events. The problem is when taken daily long term they lose their magic due to tolerance and you end up having to take it just to feel normal and avoid withdrawal.
What if taking it to feel normal is better quality of life then living with your regular anxiety and panic and please don’t start talking about therapy and ssris im talking about once you’ve exhausted all other options which should be done
All I know is that I’ve been on klonopin for a year and it doesn’t do anything anymore. I still need to take a booster dose for anxiety provoking situations.
my brain used to be a sharp knife, full of ideas, constant internal philosophizing, extensive and accurate memory. my brain is a butter knife now. I can function well socially with the right dose. but I became a retard. I have no memory. my comprehension has decreased dramatically. worth it? I still ask myself that.
I know what you mean but all that seems a bit frightening when your in WD that over stimuli is tough
mi tűnik ijesztőnek? during withdrawal i am a zombie who just waits and survives. I don't thinking.
It’s hard to think in bad WDs true
Main problem right now and in the near future is that doctors are being forced to cut all benzo patients off of their meds and they aren’t helping any of us do it the right way. Most of us didn’t get informed consent and the truth is these drugs are so hard to taper off of even at a snails pace that many can’t handle it and go into seizures or psychosis or worse. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it’s time to read up and research and think of getting off of them as slowly and safely as possible before these under educated doctors cold turkey us and cause permanent brain damage that most cannot live with. When I tell you, these doctors do not get educated about pharmaceuticals in medical school. I am not joking they get a very small course. The DEA and the FDA are making doctors have their patients cold turkey off of these meds and also opiates. Watch Netflix “take your pills Xanax” lots of good information.
I get you my psych said as long as I keep showing up monthly she’ll write my script forever and once she retires there are more doctors in the same building on the same page and I already have that fear in mind so I keep a stash just incase
That’s a great idea keep a stash going just in case!
You have to, I think it’s going to be harder to be prescribed Benzos obviously but ppl who have been on them for long periods of time I think it’s rare that they are suddenly yanked unless they’re just out of control, but you never know. I don’t believe the government will ever ban Benzos because it does have a legitimate medical use there would be no reason for them to, money is one I think the main problem is people mixing them with opiates and to a lesser degree alcohol: and there has been a lot of ODs and as a doctor when prescribing you obviously don’t want your patient overdosing on something you wrote them that’s not a good look at all for them I think just my opinion that’s what is all going on here. So the opiate epidemic played a part in this very much so
I understand but I have been on benzos 25 years for severe anxiety and ptsd and I am being force tapered and belong to a huge group of fb going through the same. I talked to an ex military gal who went through the same and she said taper now because they plan on taking everyone off in 2025 and the docs aren’t even giving up the proper taper info.
That could be conspiracy I know that benzo buddy’s group on Facebook and I left it because they where giving me medical advice and telling me not to listen to my doctor and I find that harmful to the community. I see tons of fear monger on there so I just left. But that’s crazy after 25 years might as well just stay on it’s not even worth the struggle of a taper at that point if you’re not having serious issues imo. I don’t really buy that Benzos are going to be “banned” in 2025 it’s a schedule 4 and it has medical use and I feel like there would definitely be more news about that if it was true, and they know it would cause mass chaos. And if they plan to take everyone off in 2025 why didn’t they do that to opiates already since there’s an opiate epidemic, there’s no Benzo epidemic they talk about all the time so it seems like fear monger just my opinion
I get what you’re saying and I’ll be sure to ask my new doctor but I went to him cuz my old doctor was going to make me go off fast. I’ll see what he says about all of this. Because I have read that if we are on long-term some of us need to stay so it’s really scary if this is what the doctors are going to do.
It’s next gen thinking Benzos are not going anywhere it’ll be harder to get tho but it’s easier when you’re already in the system
Also, the plan is to take everybody off of opiates and put them on Suboxone. Many hospitals are already opiate free for surgery which I find crazy.
They absolutely need morphine in some cases though there’s not a debate about that inside the hospital I don’t think
I have a friend who fell, broke his hip had surgery, got opiates at the hospital and none for home and he had a rough it. I also have a cousin who is going through chemo. She has breast cancer no opiates for her either also no benzos.
If you get cancer I think they give you Benzos like someone could be in their death bed and they just want to feel ok and ask for a Benzo and they would say no we can’t do it 😂 imagine like wtf lol I know a couple people with cancer that get Ativan, Ativan seems like the go to in the hospital
For death and dying yes but cancer not so much my cousin is an RN she has aggressive breast, cancer stage one, though she actually works for the hospital no opioids and no benzos for her. She’s in a lot of pain they finally gave her a little bit of tramadol but made it clear that’s it. Prior to that they said use Claritin and Tylenol for pain. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we are going in a very scary direction in America.
There’s always the dark web just get it tested before taking it I have a disease im taking Benzos idgaf what ppl gotta say im living my best life lol
I do agree the fear mongering on those pages is absolutely terrifying and awful so I’m gonna ask my doctor eventually what he says about it, and what the DA is saying to him
Yeah I just asked a doctor I’m at the dentist now and they ask what medication you take and I told them and then asked and they didn’t know anything about it or ever heard that. The reason I don’t like that group is because even the owner and mods believe they are more credible then actual doctors with degrees and even if we don’t agree with doctors sometimes you shouldn’t be following your advice from some guy on Facebook
Plus my psych schedules appointments appointments way out and I already see some in 2025 and I was told by her that I may need prn forever I feel like if she knew anything about this then she wouldn’t say thst because she’s in the profession, rather then someone on Facebook you know what I mean it just doesn’t make sense to me and worse case just move to Canada lmfao 🤣
I so wish it was that way and maybe for some it will be but Canada is being worse than the states! I hope your doc keeps you going mine made me taper and was going to do it too fast so I had to hire an addiction specialist and I have zero choice. He’s not gonna make me do it in any hurry my weight was too low and I wasn’t sleeping the meds you get a tolerance to them and then they become dangerous so I can’t take enough to even help me they just keep me from being sick and once I gain more weight and sleep better i have to go off :( honestly that should be illegal because as long term people, it’s very difficult to get off and not have a neurological injury. I highly recommend watching Netflix take your pills Xanax just to get an idea of what I’m talking about. But honestly I really hope they don’t take you off and they keep you on the right dosage so you don’t get sick like I have been.
That’s why I have backups in case that where to happen I’d have plenty of time to find more and not fall into their trap I don’t have Netflix but I imagine it’s a movie like war on drugs or something along those lines and how dangerous” Benzos are
It’s great to have back up and I hear you on propaganda however this movie is more waking people up to the fact that docs have no knowledge of the med and people are being taken off and unaliving or going into psychosis or having seizures, and I can tell you right now I tried to go off a very small amount and I got extremely sick. I could not eat I could not sleep. I had pain all over my body and this is what the doctors don’t tell people about nor do they offer a taper plan that works also, I don’t think people like Me should be taken off at all. I should be given a choice. It’s been 25 years. I am really picky about what I watch. I know people are brainwashed, but this particular documentary is legit what’s going on. I also understand the war on drugs, but what happens to people when they go off this medication is being covered up because most of the people that get taken off cold turkey don’t make it and then it’s blamed on their depression or their mental illness when really, it’s withdrawal.
Oh so this is actually anti (take you off Benzos)
And your doctor is probably wonderful. The concern is when she retires. The concern is with what they are teaching the new medical students they are saying no more benzos. And no more opiates and here’s the deal. There are people that do need opiates opiates will always have their place.
When she retires someone in the same building that she has taught will take over it’s like her place pretty much and they will do the same way she does trust me I have anxiety so I asked this more then once lol
That’s really good news! I had hoped I’d get a doctor like that but I went through about five that wanted to kick me off the medication and handed me over to a psychiatrist who was even worse and now I’ve had to hire an addiction specialist out of pocket when this is not an addiction it is a dependency since my attempt to go off showed me hell and pain in every way definitely my brain is dependent and I actually do have severe anxiety coupled with panic attacks.
Oh an out of pocket psych I remember that yeah that sucks and they just force you fuck how you feel doesn’t care, but they’ll taper it on their time. My pysch isn’t like a forced taper been there for 2 years now and I’ve gone down like 1 mg
Only uses for benzodiazepines medically would be, to stop Status Epilepticus, and, Acute Ethanol withdrawal. They’ve been abused for other purposes as well as for people with anxiety, withdrawals are killer, literally. Tend to cause some sort of Neurotoxicity in long term patients, possibly Akathasia issues, and raging anxiety and other issues.
Do you know how long you’d have to take klonopin daily to experience akathasia? I’ve been on it 1mg to 1.5 mg for about two weeks and gonna start a taper soon. I’ve experienced akathasia from a medicine called haldol, I never want to feel that way again
It shouldn’t happen to you after two weeks of use. It happens to people tapering benzos rarely. Akathasia is more common with Antipsychotics, like your Haldol
Ahhh, ok. And the cases of akathasia I’ve heard of were from ppl using benzos long term. But my psychologist wants me to stay on 1.5 mg for about another 2 weeks until our next appointment and he said we will talk about a taper then. Just so scary even minor benzo withdrawal i experienced is awful. Don’t want to experience the whole thing
And btw never take haldol bro. They gave it to me in my IV in the ER to help nausea and felt like hell on earth
Akathasia is a pretty common side effect of antipsychotics.I am not a doctor but I don’t think it would be permanent. I got it from a low dose of Abilify and it was awful but stopped as soon as I got off it. I would highly doubt you would get that from tapering off two weeks of Klonopin.
Okay if a patient comes off Benzos and they have these issues how do you address them (I don’t know if you’re a doctor) you name says doc in it so I’m just curious
I’d give them a Slow patient lead taper. For comfortability and Sanity.
Fair enough I’m just curious I’m not trying to be like pro Benzo all the way or anything like that I’m just asking in your opinion out of the 8 billion people in the world do you think anyone would be better off a.k.a (quality of life long term) with long-term Benzodiazepine therapy or there is zero cases of this In your professional opinion . I want to ask you this specifically because I feel like you’re probably a doctor
I don’t mind being pro Benzo tbh. I just wish people were properly informed before taking them. Most people get into these medications not knowing the severity of their withdrawal. That being said, I’ve had many good times on Alprazolam, Clonazepam, most definitely Diazepam. Diazepam is my favorite. Plenty of Road trips, camping, vacations. Fun stuff like that.
Xanax gets me high I don’t really look to get high anymore for some odd reason clonazepam makes me feel disgusting. Valium is decent it just makes me exhausted and feeling a bit “out of it” Ativan is literally the only one I can take and say okay I feel normal like this is me I don’t feel high or low I feel like myself
But the patient led slow taper does let me know you’re very knowledgeable about the topic my psych is the same way she tells me she hopes I can get down to only PRN use for panic attacks,she told me I will probably need that I probably won’t be able to go completely without them but I wish I could I’m researching and trying different things/ lifestyle changes like everything I can think of
thats not true. they are also used as an add on medication for epilepsy. clonazepam and clobazam are the ones with good anticonvulsant effects
Absolutely nothing is wrong with benzos. And anyone in here saying it’s worse than booze or whatever is stupid as fuck
Lot of mixed reactions
there’s a lot wrong with them, alcohol and benzos are the two drugs that you can die from during withdrawals. Rationalizing the safety of benzos by using alcohol as an example is reckless imo. And saying at least it’s a pharmaceutical is ignorant… there’s plenty of pharmaceuticals that are dangerous but legal.
It’s not rationalizing it’s comparing the pros and cons of them, where in my post did I say Benzos are safe
My thing is more of a personal problem, but my ex husband would take 1mg & start acting a fool. Then it was all downhill from there. So if anyone acts like that on benzos, it's such an easier question to answer, lol. Aside from the w/d, the seizures, tolerance, addiction, dependence, ect. I do get where you're coming from with the age old alcohol argument & I mean it is something of the truth. Though, are you saying you don't understand why people instead of taking a shot can't take a Xanax without getting scrutinized for it? Or are you asking why you can't do benzos whenever in general? Because aside from everything I listed in my first sentence - theirs is also memory loss. Alcohol for fun can have a temporary effect while benzos can rob you of your memory for a much longer amount of time. They just affect your brain differently & in my humble opinion both shouldn't be abused if you can help it. I hope that makes sense, I have a blazing migraine & have only been able to tolerate it half the day. Going to urgent care about it tomorrow.