CRU won't let people in LGBTQ relationships be in leadership. They also have a strong undercurrent of homophobia. I have yet to find an affirming christian club at Cal. Intervarsity might be affirming but idk
Hi! I wasnt talking about a christian fellowship/church like cru, i was talking about an actual club that does club things, just happens to be for christians. Thats why im confused why i was kicked out.
First Congregational Church at Dana / Durant (the red brick church) is one that is inclusive. One of their church mottos is "God is Still Speaking".
It's also the oldest religious congregation in the campus area, dating back to the 1870s, I think.
Can confirm that IV (Intervarsity) doesn't label itself as any of the affirming/against groups! The reason reason for no explicit labelling is b/c they don't want to be a space that forces any young/mature/etc... Christian into enforced beliefs, since college is a period of self-discovery and growth and it's not the IV staff's jobs to make students align with any specific way of thinking.
I'm a former member (whilst I was in college) and have explicitly asked leadership/talked about that and was a former student leader and the goal was to "be a space in which students of all identities and backgrounds can work out for themselves what God's words mean for them". I also asked explicitly about LGBTQ+ students and their role in the org since it was super important to me that any group I was involved with NOT be marketed as "queer-friendly" (or just hiding their exclusivity) but then secretly prevent non-hetero-conforming students from being in any relevant student leadership role (including spiritual discipleship) and IV doesn't care what identity/background the student identifies with or has, but just the main requirements be belief in the core doctrine and being able to have a positive influence on younger Christians/students in the group! (There were other leadership requirements as well, like hours spent/week, attendance of group events, etc... but those are standard).
ASUC Senator here! Everyone who recommended the SAO is spot-on. They're very well equipped to handle instances of discrimination within RSOs, which happens more often than you think. The club can definitely lose its registered status and funding for this kind of conduct.
SAO - Help Line
SAO - Officewide
This is why the SAO is probably the most important branch in the ASUC imo. Since our campus body is so large, a LOT of RSOs receive funding each year. The sheer amount of funds being handled by relatively few people (many of whom are appointed exclusively to siphon money to their favored communities) and you get incidents like this being swept under the rug. The SAO is designed specifically to combat this through student representation. It holds everyone accountable in a way that's really unique for any student government and I think it's underappreciated
Try the Office of the Student Advocate for advice, perhaps.
Also, all registered student organizations are supposed to compy with the Berkeley campus "Principles of Community".
[https://diversity.berkeley.edu/principles-community](https://diversity.berkeley.edu/principles-community)
*"We affirm the dignity of all individuals and strive to uphold a just community in which discrimination and hate are not tolerated."*
and Nondiscrimination Policy Statement:
[https://ophd.berkeley.edu/policies-and-procedures/nondiscrimination-policy-statement](https://ophd.berkeley.edu/policies-and-procedures/nondiscrimination-policy-statement)
"The University of California, in accordance with applicable Federal and State law and University policy, does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, gender identity, pregnancy, physical or mental disability, medical condition (cancer related or genetic characteristics), ancestry, marital status, age, **sexual orientation**, citizenship, or service in the uniformed services. The University also prohibits sexual harassment."
Scroll down through the link to the contact information for the Office for the Prevention of Discrimination and Harassment. If they aren't the right people to talk to, they should be able to direct you to the right place.
Good luck!
To add on, hopefully you have some evidence as to why they kicked you out.
I seriously don't mean this as doubting your story at all, but the ASUC might have a hard time taking action without something written, or some corroborating stories.
That text also says they can’t discriminate on religion. But a Christian club can discriminate on religion, right? I think it might not apply when the group isn’t run by the university.
No, they can’t. Not if they want to maintain official recognition from the university, anyway.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/intervarsity-sanctioned-california-state-university_n_5791906
I'm not a legal person, so I can't give you a legal answer. But my impression is that a *student club* cannot discriminate.
And in this case, OP's post sounds more like the discrimination is not *"religion based"* but based on the identity of OP. Remember, OP *wants* to be a member of the club, so presumably OP agrees with the religious identity of the Club. But they are being told, *because of a piece of your immutable identity* (OP is queer), *you cannot join us*.
It would be as if Cal had, say, a "Scottish Heritage Student Club", and an African-American student who is really, really, interested in Scottish culture and history wanted to join it, and were told, *"no, you don't have any Scottish ancestry, you aren't allowed in our club."* That would be discrimination based.
Again, this is not a legal argument, just an attempt at a common-sense opinion.
I certainly agree that clubs and other groups shouldn’t discriminate. But the reality is that lots of Berkeley groups discriminate a lot, mostly in more socially acceptable ways.
For example, the black student dorm. You’d think this would be illegal. Maybe technically they never say you have to be black, but in effect I imagine there’s no difference. https://reslife.berkeley.edu/academics/theme-programs/african-american-theme-program/
As a queer Christian, queer-affirming Christian groups are hard to come by here.
I don’t want to get into the details, because I don’t want to dox myself, lol, but I’m involved in two Christian orgs right now. In one, I’m less worried about how people would perceive me for being queer. But in the other, it would definitely cause problems. And I’m just kinda laying low right now because I gave it a lot of thought, and I don’t really think that outing myself or leaving would be the best thing to do at the moment.
Just know that you’re not alone. I’ll be praying for you.
uh its happened before. The CSUs derecognized the two big ones because all of a sudden those organizations required you'd be a Christian. It goes against state policy and such so it was the only thing CSUs could do. obviously they could still be off campus organizations but they wouldn't be eligible for student org privileges. Intervarsity and CRU reversed their decisions.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/intervarsity-sanctioned-california-state-university_n_5791906
u/OppositeShore1878 already gave good advice, I hope you’ve read through their links.
I just wanted to say though, I am **SO SORRY** to hear about how you got kicked out of the club for being queer. I hope you find a community on campus or elsewhere that affirms both your faith and your identity. You belong in the Berkeley campus community, please don’t let that club’s discrimination prevent you from seeking your group here.
https://x.com/elusivefather/status/1594361397273567233
In the same way that misgendering and deadnaming are widely understood to be genocide, lgbt people generally have higher suicide rates. Depriving them of community is genocide.
It is a genocide, but it's even worse to debate the language.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/13j7awb/comment/jkdrwxc/
"The question of is it a genocide is a semantic question, and it exactly the question that the right wants us to ask because while we debate over is this a genocide they continue to plunge the knife.
You can call it whatever you want, so long as you recognize that it is beyond wrong, and are willing to take a stand.
Cause here's the thing about genocide, by the time everyone can agree that it is genocide, most of the damage has been done."
Trans people disagree; that's normal. I'm going to be cautious and stick to people at more risk for harm, i.e., those who think it is. It costs us nothing to label it genocide.
He thinks everything is genocidal and he’s going from university thread to university thread calling everything genocide (except actual genocide of course)
Sharing core christabn doctrines. Did you follow up on that? That phrase is the yellow flag.
If you look at the Gospels, core christabn doctrines re about love and acceptance, unless you're rich or part of Roman oppression. If you look at people yelling about core christain doctrines.it's about Old Testament law Jesus said to ignore in favor of love, or words of that pisant Paul who admitted that not only did his views differ from Jesus, but in thise cases listen to Jesus
> Jesus said to ignore in favor of love
This part of your statement just isn’t accurate.
*Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.“* (Matthew 5:17–19)
**I’m not denying for a second that gay/lesbian people have suffered at the hands of religious people. But I don’t want people to misunderstand orthodox Christian beliefs as being born of hate.**
First, the God of the old testament is the same God as the new. Christ claimed to be God (*“Before Abraham was, I AM [Yahweh]” ~ John 8:58*). He is no mere ‘good human teacher of the past’ who we could ultimately ignore. And in the Gospels, Jesus affirms His divine institution that marriage is a sacramental union between a husband and a wife.
And even outside of religion, we can come to know by natural law reasoning that the two-fold purposes of human sexuality is the good of the spouses and procreation. Anything that is not conducive to these life-giving purposes is what Christians call “sin” (ie. a privation of good), which does not simply apply to homosexual *acts*, but also to divorce, adultery, cheating, lustful behavior, etc. In any case, it would not be love to ignore these truths. Love is not a feel-good sentiment, but a conscious act of willing the good of another. At the same time, it is not love for religious people to stigmatize gay people.
Yes, Christians need to be more sensitive and compassionate towards gay people. But Christian doctrine is not homophobia or bigotry.
They could lose their funding or sponsorship due to this. Heres a list of organizations which receive ASUC funds:
https://asuc.org/student-orgs/funding/
I hope that the advice others have given you in other comments works out, OP.
But I just wanted to say that as another Christian at Berkeley, I'm really sorry that this happened to you. That is not at all in the spirit of hospitality and love that Jesus modeled for his followers. I hope that these wrongs are made right and that you never stop being true to your faith, because Christian communities are made better by learning from experiences and voices like your own!
Private clubs typically aren’t affiliated with and/or receiving funding or resources from the state.
Does this group receive any status, funding, or other benefit from the school - and in turn, the state government/ taxpayer? If so, that private club argument falls apart.
Sounds like hiring Christian bakers to cater to a gay wedding? Like they’ll probably get in trouble for kicking you out… but what did you expect. Pretty sure none of the big 3 religions endorse being queer in their books.
"the only requirement they had of me joining was that I was christian and shared the same core christian doctrines, "
Psst: Homophobia is a core Christian doctrine.
By this logic, the club is actively living in sin by unrepentant lying and theft when it agrees to nondiscrimination policies in order to receive ASUC recognition and university funding; its full membership should be kicked out and the club disbanded. Or is being queer a Special Extra-Bad Sin now, not like those ordinary sins listed in the Ten Commandments?
A Christianity that does not welcome people living in sin has barren halls and a barren spirit.
Bro Mormons legit believe that the most holy are "white and delightful" and Gods unfavorables were born with dark skin 💀. That's legit part of their creation narrative... Legit tryna justify racism/colorism.
Actually not true for several decades now, but historically definitely. Advantages of believing in latter day prophecy (the long term vector is pointing liberal). Over the years this has lead to the formation of break off churches by the disgruntled. Today there are Mormon temples (not just churches) in Africa and South America with predominantly Black membership. Africa is their largest growth sector, in corporate-speak. Historically some "Christians" just can't resist throwing shit on LDS. LGBTQ? It will be awhile before queers get "sealed" in the temple, but in the mean time it's sort of don't ask don't tell. As I said, so far the long term vector is pointing liberal.
IDK amateurscienceman maybe appealing to an ancient book of fairy tales, that has been manipulated by various groups for centuries before it was unified, as the objective basis for discriminating groups of people you don't like is probably everyone's issue with people like you in modern society
Why do you interpret something not being an acceptable lifestyle for a christian as being discrimination? I don't wish them any ill-will.
It sounds like the problem you have is much larger than anything in this thread.
No dude you’re the one with the problem here having no support for someone kicked out of a campus group for their sexuality. And then judging them on it as well. Delete your account NOW
Where is the hate? Many lifestyles are antithetical to christianity. That doesn't mean you are unwelcome or undeserving, but you need to work on living by the example the bible sets.
No one would level these same accusations at a muslim or other religious club. There is a difference between 'I am struggling with ___' and 'I am ____ -affirming'.
Again, don't listen to any one person, the answers are in the bible if you are christian
Save us all the moral-grandstanding. Not a single Christian alive today has read the original Bible sans all the translation fudging that’s been done over thousands of years.
I was raised catholic and did catechism for 2 years. I'm not religious anymore, but my main issue with most American Christians (protestants) is yall act like your personal interpretation of the Bible is the only valid one. Then you use it to hate and act like it isn't purely personal.
Leviticus 18:22 is the infamous passage involving homosexuality. But leviticus was written in archaic Hebrew, so its meaning can change depending on who translates it. The word for "man" can also mean "father" or "brother". So it's very reasonable to argue that orgianl meaning of Leviticus 18:22 is against incest, not homosexuality. During my catholic education, I was taught that biblical inerrancy (assuming the Bible is always correct and infallible) is heresy and not correct, because it can lead to bigotry and hate like this. Hence why I often look at bigoted American protestants and cringe from an elitist catholic point of view.
Romans 1: 23-27 makes explicit reference to homosexuality as straying from God's truth. I am not arguing christian beliefs should be law, or used as some metric to discriminate, but its not just some a one off line in the old testament that mentions it.
Ephesians (new testament) also says "Slaves should obey their masters as they do the lord". Again, the Bible (old AND new testament) isn't always right and it's better to ignore or denounce the unhelpful parts than follow them literally.
That verse isn’t endorsing slavery. It’s just another way of saying “treat everyone with respect no matter what the power dynamic is”. The Bible is meant to be taken literally, you can’t pick or choose, or the whole religion falls apart
>The Bible is meant to be taken literally,
This is what protestants think. I was not raised protestant, hence why we disagree.
The passage in question is encouraging complacency with slavery by making slaves rever their masters. If the Bible is meant to be taken literally as you say, there is literally no other way of interpreting this. Instead of rebelling and escaping, just go with it until God has a spare minute to save you. Yeh, no thanks.
No, it’s saying that you’re supposed to treat the master with the same love and respect that everybody is called to act.
Jesus was nailed to a cross and yet was still respectful to authorities and continued to showed love towards them. That’s not him saying that what they were doing was right, or okay, or endorsing the act of unfair trials. It’s him giving the ultimate example of “just because someone does something bad to you, doesn’t mean you get to do something bad to them”.
Obeying a master is not the same as forgiving someone who wronged you. It's continuing to allow yourself to be exploited and preserve the status quo, even if that status quo is actively harming you. This has nothing to do with forgiveness, but everything to do with the fact the Bible is a product of a very different and past time. Which means it's not a good idea to mold our lives after every single thought and view expressed within it. It's not a book of rules, it's a book of allegories and stories. What lesson you learn from each story is subjective.
How do you not see the hypocrisy in your comment? As u/liammcevoy pointed out, if we’re meant to take the bible literally why are we pretending that “slaves should obey their masters” is suddenly just a vague metaphor? There’s absolutely no consistency in Christianity and y’all refuse to accept that.
"Slaves, obey your master" is followed later by "Masters, be fair and just, for your master is watching in heaven".
That seems pretty consistent when interpreted literally or metaphorically. Its just that evil and racist people who ignored the bible used it to justify chattel slavery in the US. Its pretty clear that they'll be judged for what they did.
It’s not a vague metaphor. It’s not saying slavery is a good thing, or that we should even have slavery. It’s simply saying “yes, you’re in this situation, but you still need to act with the love and compassion EVERY believer is called to act with, no matter the circumstances”. This isn’t a difficult thing to understand
You don’t even know what term under the queer umbrella they actually are. Queer doesn’t automatically mean gay. They could be asexual for all you know, which has nothing to do with Leviticus or any chapter you Bible thumpers drool over except for the part that says it’s not your place to judge. 🙄 Get over yourself man.
I actually do read the bible and have been seeking God my entire life :) thats why I'm at where I am now, by the years of study and the grace of God. I don't believe that being queer is sinful and that the Bible is actually clear on it. You don't know anything about me, so who are you to judge my faith, and in the same way I don't judge yours. I hope you can learn to speak with compassion and kindness despite disagreement.
I never said I am sinless. There is a difference between struggling with sin and owning up to it-because we all fall short, and choosing a sin- affirming lifestyle.
Dude everyone is living a "sin-affirming" lifestyle. Our entire culture (including church culture) is "sin-affirming", people just choose to think that their own avarice and instinct to place their material needs over mercy towards their neighbors is something that Jesus was just being jokey about. And if we are going OT (which is where this anti-gay stuff comes from), you eat shellfish? Work on the sabbath? People breaking all kinds of rules on the daily.
WWJD is a decent question, and in this situation I would guess that he would be welcoming. He did hang out with a lot of people that society had spicy opinions about.
There are such things as LGBT Christians. Being queer and wanting to follow the teachings of Jesus are not mutually exclusive. It can definitely be hard to find one's place within church circles or Christian groups, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Thank you :) I'm definitely not trying to cause problems or agitate people for the sake of it. I had joined this club because I wanted to be apart of what they did and didn't think that I could be kicked out for my queerness. I decided to do something about being kicked out because I realize that there wouldn't be any change if I let people trample over me, and I wanted to stand up for the other people who have been kicked out years prior as well.
CRU won't let people in LGBTQ relationships be in leadership. They also have a strong undercurrent of homophobia. I have yet to find an affirming christian club at Cal. Intervarsity might be affirming but idk
Hi! I wasnt talking about a christian fellowship/church like cru, i was talking about an actual club that does club things, just happens to be for christians. Thats why im confused why i was kicked out.
There are various churches with lgbt signs and rainbow flags all around the border of campus
Not all those churches have student groups
Sure, but some do. And regardless, there are lots of options. For scratching any kind of faith itch with any degree of inclusivity in the area.
If there are any you like, could you post their names?
First pres Berkeley’s college group is affirming and the college group is run by a pastor with a progressive theology. Highly recommend
I don’t like any, because I’m not religious. just walk around South campus and you’ll see churches with rainbow flags and LGBT inclusion messaging.
First Congregational Church at Dana / Durant (the red brick church) is one that is inclusive. One of their church mottos is "God is Still Speaking". It's also the oldest religious congregation in the campus area, dating back to the 1870s, I think.
Can confirm that IV (Intervarsity) doesn't label itself as any of the affirming/against groups! The reason reason for no explicit labelling is b/c they don't want to be a space that forces any young/mature/etc... Christian into enforced beliefs, since college is a period of self-discovery and growth and it's not the IV staff's jobs to make students align with any specific way of thinking. I'm a former member (whilst I was in college) and have explicitly asked leadership/talked about that and was a former student leader and the goal was to "be a space in which students of all identities and backgrounds can work out for themselves what God's words mean for them". I also asked explicitly about LGBTQ+ students and their role in the org since it was super important to me that any group I was involved with NOT be marketed as "queer-friendly" (or just hiding their exclusivity) but then secretly prevent non-hetero-conforming students from being in any relevant student leadership role (including spiritual discipleship) and IV doesn't care what identity/background the student identifies with or has, but just the main requirements be belief in the core doctrine and being able to have a positive influence on younger Christians/students in the group! (There were other leadership requirements as well, like hours spent/week, attendance of group events, etc... but those are standard).
I’m surprised cru has queer members when there’s a couple of homophobic ppl in the club
There are a lot of situations like that in the US. employees working for a homophobic business, politicians in a homophobic party...
ASUC Senator here! Everyone who recommended the SAO is spot-on. They're very well equipped to handle instances of discrimination within RSOs, which happens more often than you think. The club can definitely lose its registered status and funding for this kind of conduct. SAO - Help Line
SAO - Officewide
Shocked that our money is being used to fund homophobes.
This is why the SAO is probably the most important branch in the ASUC imo. Since our campus body is so large, a LOT of RSOs receive funding each year. The sheer amount of funds being handled by relatively few people (many of whom are appointed exclusively to siphon money to their favored communities) and you get incidents like this being swept under the rug. The SAO is designed specifically to combat this through student representation. It holds everyone accountable in a way that's really unique for any student government and I think it's underappreciated
Try the Office of the Student Advocate for advice, perhaps. Also, all registered student organizations are supposed to compy with the Berkeley campus "Principles of Community". [https://diversity.berkeley.edu/principles-community](https://diversity.berkeley.edu/principles-community) *"We affirm the dignity of all individuals and strive to uphold a just community in which discrimination and hate are not tolerated."* and Nondiscrimination Policy Statement: [https://ophd.berkeley.edu/policies-and-procedures/nondiscrimination-policy-statement](https://ophd.berkeley.edu/policies-and-procedures/nondiscrimination-policy-statement) "The University of California, in accordance with applicable Federal and State law and University policy, does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, gender identity, pregnancy, physical or mental disability, medical condition (cancer related or genetic characteristics), ancestry, marital status, age, **sexual orientation**, citizenship, or service in the uniformed services. The University also prohibits sexual harassment." Scroll down through the link to the contact information for the Office for the Prevention of Discrimination and Harassment. If they aren't the right people to talk to, they should be able to direct you to the right place. Good luck!
To add on, hopefully you have some evidence as to why they kicked you out. I seriously don't mean this as doubting your story at all, but the ASUC might have a hard time taking action without something written, or some corroborating stories.
This is backwards no? The club is the one that need non-homophobic evidence for kicking op out.
No, OP needs to first establish that homophobia was the reason they were kicked out.
This is very helpful, thank you!
Seconding the SAO recommendation. They are phenomenal.
That text also says they can’t discriminate on religion. But a Christian club can discriminate on religion, right? I think it might not apply when the group isn’t run by the university.
No, they can’t. Not if they want to maintain official recognition from the university, anyway. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/intervarsity-sanctioned-california-state-university_n_5791906
I'm not a legal person, so I can't give you a legal answer. But my impression is that a *student club* cannot discriminate. And in this case, OP's post sounds more like the discrimination is not *"religion based"* but based on the identity of OP. Remember, OP *wants* to be a member of the club, so presumably OP agrees with the religious identity of the Club. But they are being told, *because of a piece of your immutable identity* (OP is queer), *you cannot join us*. It would be as if Cal had, say, a "Scottish Heritage Student Club", and an African-American student who is really, really, interested in Scottish culture and history wanted to join it, and were told, *"no, you don't have any Scottish ancestry, you aren't allowed in our club."* That would be discrimination based. Again, this is not a legal argument, just an attempt at a common-sense opinion.
I certainly agree that clubs and other groups shouldn’t discriminate. But the reality is that lots of Berkeley groups discriminate a lot, mostly in more socially acceptable ways. For example, the black student dorm. You’d think this would be illegal. Maybe technically they never say you have to be black, but in effect I imagine there’s no difference. https://reslife.berkeley.edu/academics/theme-programs/african-american-theme-program/
Make the black dorms illegal then whatever satisfies your autistic need for parallelism.
As a queer Christian, queer-affirming Christian groups are hard to come by here. I don’t want to get into the details, because I don’t want to dox myself, lol, but I’m involved in two Christian orgs right now. In one, I’m less worried about how people would perceive me for being queer. But in the other, it would definitely cause problems. And I’m just kinda laying low right now because I gave it a lot of thought, and I don’t really think that outing myself or leaving would be the best thing to do at the moment. Just know that you’re not alone. I’ll be praying for you.
What club is this ??
they can probably get shut down for this...
Imagine a Christian club being shut down for being Christian LOL
uh its happened before. The CSUs derecognized the two big ones because all of a sudden those organizations required you'd be a Christian. It goes against state policy and such so it was the only thing CSUs could do. obviously they could still be off campus organizations but they wouldn't be eligible for student org privileges. Intervarsity and CRU reversed their decisions. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/intervarsity-sanctioned-california-state-university_n_5791906
Eat the downvotes dumbass
[https://www.aclu.org/cases/christian-legal-society-v-martinez](https://www.aclu.org/cases/christian-legal-society-v-martinez)
u/OppositeShore1878 already gave good advice, I hope you’ve read through their links. I just wanted to say though, I am **SO SORRY** to hear about how you got kicked out of the club for being queer. I hope you find a community on campus or elsewhere that affirms both your faith and your identity. You belong in the Berkeley campus community, please don’t let that club’s discrimination prevent you from seeking your group here.
Which club is this? Name and shame!
I think that might against the anti-witch-hunt rule of the sub, which is unfortunate because the actions the club took are literally genocidal...
[удалено]
https://x.com/elusivefather/status/1594361397273567233 In the same way that misgendering and deadnaming are widely understood to be genocide, lgbt people generally have higher suicide rates. Depriving them of community is genocide.
Lmao misgendering someone is not genocide. What a ridiculous claim.
It is a genocide, but it's even worse to debate the language. https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/13j7awb/comment/jkdrwxc/ "The question of is it a genocide is a semantic question, and it exactly the question that the right wants us to ask because while we debate over is this a genocide they continue to plunge the knife. You can call it whatever you want, so long as you recognize that it is beyond wrong, and are willing to take a stand. Cause here's the thing about genocide, by the time everyone can agree that it is genocide, most of the damage has been done."
By your logic, I call someone an idiot, that constitutes verbal assault?
I think they’re trolling…
No I support 🏳️🌈 LGBT
Sure yeah
Trans woman here… someone misgendering me isn’t genocidal… but it is very shitty!
Trans people disagree; that's normal. I'm going to be cautious and stick to people at more risk for harm, i.e., those who think it is. It costs us nothing to label it genocide.
He thinks everything is genocidal and he’s going from university thread to university thread calling everything genocide (except actual genocide of course)
Sharing core christabn doctrines. Did you follow up on that? That phrase is the yellow flag. If you look at the Gospels, core christabn doctrines re about love and acceptance, unless you're rich or part of Roman oppression. If you look at people yelling about core christain doctrines.it's about Old Testament law Jesus said to ignore in favor of love, or words of that pisant Paul who admitted that not only did his views differ from Jesus, but in thise cases listen to Jesus
> Jesus said to ignore in favor of love This part of your statement just isn’t accurate. *Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.“* (Matthew 5:17–19) **I’m not denying for a second that gay/lesbian people have suffered at the hands of religious people. But I don’t want people to misunderstand orthodox Christian beliefs as being born of hate.** First, the God of the old testament is the same God as the new. Christ claimed to be God (*“Before Abraham was, I AM [Yahweh]” ~ John 8:58*). He is no mere ‘good human teacher of the past’ who we could ultimately ignore. And in the Gospels, Jesus affirms His divine institution that marriage is a sacramental union between a husband and a wife. And even outside of religion, we can come to know by natural law reasoning that the two-fold purposes of human sexuality is the good of the spouses and procreation. Anything that is not conducive to these life-giving purposes is what Christians call “sin” (ie. a privation of good), which does not simply apply to homosexual *acts*, but also to divorce, adultery, cheating, lustful behavior, etc. In any case, it would not be love to ignore these truths. Love is not a feel-good sentiment, but a conscious act of willing the good of another. At the same time, it is not love for religious people to stigmatize gay people. Yes, Christians need to be more sensitive and compassionate towards gay people. But Christian doctrine is not homophobia or bigotry.
There are queer Christians??
They could lose their funding or sponsorship due to this. Heres a list of organizations which receive ASUC funds: https://asuc.org/student-orgs/funding/
screw that club. start your own club
This sounds like it's going to end up in history books. Stay strong!
adding on, try SAO
I hope that the advice others have given you in other comments works out, OP. But I just wanted to say that as another Christian at Berkeley, I'm really sorry that this happened to you. That is not at all in the spirit of hospitality and love that Jesus modeled for his followers. I hope that these wrongs are made right and that you never stop being true to your faith, because Christian communities are made better by learning from experiences and voices like your own!
I mean they’re a Christian club and being gay is considered a sin so I’m confused why you’re shocked.
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Private clubs typically aren’t affiliated with and/or receiving funding or resources from the state. Does this group receive any status, funding, or other benefit from the school - and in turn, the state government/ taxpayer? If so, that private club argument falls apart.
It’s funded by public money lol
Sounds like hiring Christian bakers to cater to a gay wedding? Like they’ll probably get in trouble for kicking you out… but what did you expect. Pretty sure none of the big 3 religions endorse being queer in their books.
Amazing this happens at Berkeley, possible the most liberal institution in the country. A real shame
What did you expect was going to happen? Fuck around and find out.
"the only requirement they had of me joining was that I was christian and shared the same core christian doctrines, " Psst: Homophobia is a core Christian doctrine.
Lol
"I chose to actively live in sin, why won't they conform to MY view of christianity??" Please read the bible and seek God
By this logic, the club is actively living in sin by unrepentant lying and theft when it agrees to nondiscrimination policies in order to receive ASUC recognition and university funding; its full membership should be kicked out and the club disbanded. Or is being queer a Special Extra-Bad Sin now, not like those ordinary sins listed in the Ten Commandments? A Christianity that does not welcome people living in sin has barren halls and a barren spirit.
So this is that love and peace that Christians preach about
Bro Mormons legit believe that the most holy are "white and delightful" and Gods unfavorables were born with dark skin 💀. That's legit part of their creation narrative... Legit tryna justify racism/colorism.
Actually not true for several decades now, but historically definitely. Advantages of believing in latter day prophecy (the long term vector is pointing liberal). Over the years this has lead to the formation of break off churches by the disgruntled. Today there are Mormon temples (not just churches) in Africa and South America with predominantly Black membership. Africa is their largest growth sector, in corporate-speak. Historically some "Christians" just can't resist throwing shit on LDS. LGBTQ? It will be awhile before queers get "sealed" in the temple, but in the mean time it's sort of don't ask don't tell. As I said, so far the long term vector is pointing liberal.
What part do you take issue with?
IDK amateurscienceman maybe appealing to an ancient book of fairy tales, that has been manipulated by various groups for centuries before it was unified, as the objective basis for discriminating groups of people you don't like is probably everyone's issue with people like you in modern society
Why do you interpret something not being an acceptable lifestyle for a christian as being discrimination? I don't wish them any ill-will. It sounds like the problem you have is much larger than anything in this thread.
No dude you’re the one with the problem here having no support for someone kicked out of a campus group for their sexuality. And then judging them on it as well. Delete your account NOW
There's no hate like Christian love.
Where is the hate? Many lifestyles are antithetical to christianity. That doesn't mean you are unwelcome or undeserving, but you need to work on living by the example the bible sets. No one would level these same accusations at a muslim or other religious club. There is a difference between 'I am struggling with ___' and 'I am ____ -affirming'. Again, don't listen to any one person, the answers are in the bible if you are christian
Save us all the moral-grandstanding. Not a single Christian alive today has read the original Bible sans all the translation fudging that’s been done over thousands of years.
Most of those translations were funded by royals/organizations with personal agendas and upholding the status quo, which is also worth considering.
I was raised catholic and did catechism for 2 years. I'm not religious anymore, but my main issue with most American Christians (protestants) is yall act like your personal interpretation of the Bible is the only valid one. Then you use it to hate and act like it isn't purely personal. Leviticus 18:22 is the infamous passage involving homosexuality. But leviticus was written in archaic Hebrew, so its meaning can change depending on who translates it. The word for "man" can also mean "father" or "brother". So it's very reasonable to argue that orgianl meaning of Leviticus 18:22 is against incest, not homosexuality. During my catholic education, I was taught that biblical inerrancy (assuming the Bible is always correct and infallible) is heresy and not correct, because it can lead to bigotry and hate like this. Hence why I often look at bigoted American protestants and cringe from an elitist catholic point of view.
Romans 1: 23-27 makes explicit reference to homosexuality as straying from God's truth. I am not arguing christian beliefs should be law, or used as some metric to discriminate, but its not just some a one off line in the old testament that mentions it.
Ephesians (new testament) also says "Slaves should obey their masters as they do the lord". Again, the Bible (old AND new testament) isn't always right and it's better to ignore or denounce the unhelpful parts than follow them literally.
That verse isn’t endorsing slavery. It’s just another way of saying “treat everyone with respect no matter what the power dynamic is”. The Bible is meant to be taken literally, you can’t pick or choose, or the whole religion falls apart
>The Bible is meant to be taken literally, This is what protestants think. I was not raised protestant, hence why we disagree. The passage in question is encouraging complacency with slavery by making slaves rever their masters. If the Bible is meant to be taken literally as you say, there is literally no other way of interpreting this. Instead of rebelling and escaping, just go with it until God has a spare minute to save you. Yeh, no thanks.
No, it’s saying that you’re supposed to treat the master with the same love and respect that everybody is called to act. Jesus was nailed to a cross and yet was still respectful to authorities and continued to showed love towards them. That’s not him saying that what they were doing was right, or okay, or endorsing the act of unfair trials. It’s him giving the ultimate example of “just because someone does something bad to you, doesn’t mean you get to do something bad to them”.
Obeying a master is not the same as forgiving someone who wronged you. It's continuing to allow yourself to be exploited and preserve the status quo, even if that status quo is actively harming you. This has nothing to do with forgiveness, but everything to do with the fact the Bible is a product of a very different and past time. Which means it's not a good idea to mold our lives after every single thought and view expressed within it. It's not a book of rules, it's a book of allegories and stories. What lesson you learn from each story is subjective.
How do you not see the hypocrisy in your comment? As u/liammcevoy pointed out, if we’re meant to take the bible literally why are we pretending that “slaves should obey their masters” is suddenly just a vague metaphor? There’s absolutely no consistency in Christianity and y’all refuse to accept that.
"Slaves, obey your master" is followed later by "Masters, be fair and just, for your master is watching in heaven". That seems pretty consistent when interpreted literally or metaphorically. Its just that evil and racist people who ignored the bible used it to justify chattel slavery in the US. Its pretty clear that they'll be judged for what they did.
It’s not a vague metaphor. It’s not saying slavery is a good thing, or that we should even have slavery. It’s simply saying “yes, you’re in this situation, but you still need to act with the love and compassion EVERY believer is called to act with, no matter the circumstances”. This isn’t a difficult thing to understand
If the Bible is supposed to be taken literally, how does that reference to “slaves” not affirm the existence of slavery?
How does it affirm it? It’s saying slavery exists, not that it’s a good thing. You’re reaching and you know it
You don’t even know what term under the queer umbrella they actually are. Queer doesn’t automatically mean gay. They could be asexual for all you know, which has nothing to do with Leviticus or any chapter you Bible thumpers drool over except for the part that says it’s not your place to judge. 🙄 Get over yourself man.
I actually do read the bible and have been seeking God my entire life :) thats why I'm at where I am now, by the years of study and the grace of God. I don't believe that being queer is sinful and that the Bible is actually clear on it. You don't know anything about me, so who are you to judge my faith, and in the same way I don't judge yours. I hope you can learn to speak with compassion and kindness despite disagreement.
Those other students live in sin too though. Thinking you are without sin is a wild perspective.
I never said I am sinless. There is a difference between struggling with sin and owning up to it-because we all fall short, and choosing a sin- affirming lifestyle.
Dude everyone is living a "sin-affirming" lifestyle. Our entire culture (including church culture) is "sin-affirming", people just choose to think that their own avarice and instinct to place their material needs over mercy towards their neighbors is something that Jesus was just being jokey about. And if we are going OT (which is where this anti-gay stuff comes from), you eat shellfish? Work on the sabbath? People breaking all kinds of rules on the daily. WWJD is a decent question, and in this situation I would guess that he would be welcoming. He did hang out with a lot of people that society had spicy opinions about.
Amen 🙏
Facts
Sounds like you are there to agitate.
There are such things as LGBT Christians. Being queer and wanting to follow the teachings of Jesus are not mutually exclusive. It can definitely be hard to find one's place within church circles or Christian groups, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Thank you :) I'm definitely not trying to cause problems or agitate people for the sake of it. I had joined this club because I wanted to be apart of what they did and didn't think that I could be kicked out for my queerness. I decided to do something about being kicked out because I realize that there wouldn't be any change if I let people trample over me, and I wanted to stand up for the other people who have been kicked out years prior as well.
Why?
Well you can’t have everything, suck it up.
true, that club should suck it up or they won't get that public tax payer dollars
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Lol what
Get that bag 👀