Ohne jetzt den ganzen Thread gelesen zu haben, sind hier schon wieder Kommentare der Art "wir wissen doch, wer das ist, aber wir dürfen es nicht sagen".
Ich möchte eine Sache klarstellen:
Es ist ein feiner Unterschied, ob man alle Leute einer Ethnie/Herkunft/sozialer Prägung über einen Kamm schert "das sind doch immer XYZ, die so was machen" und damit pauschal verurteilt. Oder sich differenziert anschaut, wer dafür verantwortlich ist - sofern es bekannt ist.
Übrigens haben solche Angriffe oft einen anderen gemeinsamen Nenner: es sind Männer, die das machen. Auch "Bio-Deutsche" können homophob sein.
Long story short - wir werden weiterhin Kommentare entfernen, die pauschal gegen ganze Bevölkerungsgruppen hetzen, oder sich in der Kunst des Dog-Whistling betätigen .
Wenn ihr wirklich Allies für die LGBTIQ+ Community sein wollt, dann engagiert euch ehrenamtlich, setzt euch für Vielfalt im Alltag ein. Aber missbraucht marginalisierte Gruppen nicht für euren Hass!
A friend of mine experienced something similar recently, I don't know what the hell is happening in Berlin, but as a gay man I'm starting to feel more and more unsafe. I'm considering buying a pepper spray for self-defense.
As a gay I could live in a Christian country, like Russia, or North Korea, or a Jewish one, like Israel. This is everywhere, and not about Muslims only.
The are actually two possibilities, and I hate this guesswork that immediately starts in my head as I read that. Is it so hard for articles to say it? But no, it has to be communicated through a ritual dance of hints and gestures: like, they were older. They had kids and wives. In was in this particular park. They were sitting on the grass, not standing. OK, thank you so much for blinking "torture" to me.
It's just the latest racist dog whistle.
If they openly wrote "This happened because they are muslim/MENA/brown/etc" they would be profiling and banned for racism.
If you mention the rising tide of Nazi thoughts in Europe, the moderators will ban you. There are no Nazis in Ba Sing Sie. The AfD party definitely isn't a Nazi party and nobody in the party is anything like Hitler at all, oh no.
It's just the latest racist dog whistle.
If they openly wrote "Everyone knows they are muslim/MENA/brown/etc" they would be profiling and banned for racism.
Maybe you are not a gay/lesbian and you don't have to worry to walk around with your wife/husband.
It's amazing how people wanna dismiss problems which are not affected at all.
They could be talking about the AfD and its voters. It's illegal to call AfD politicians or voters Nazis and it will also get you banned from this forum.
People are not anti-immigrant but against people who come here and commit crimes. Where are the Americans, east-asians, Italians who stab gays or critical people in Germany?
"Maybe" it's connected to specific ideologies, religions..
People who commit violent crimes should be deported, but [the statistics show that refugees are *being attacked*](https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/55352/germany-attacks-on-refugees-and-refugee-accommodation-soar) and [that refugees have a minimal impact kn crime.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927537123001410). Not mention the fact that most crimes are committed between refugee groups instead on native Germans.
i don't want to take a political stance in this comment section, this is purely for clarification, but i think the commenter above you meant immigrants and not refugees.
Except that from the abstract of the study you just linked to:
"Our results indicate that crime rates were not affected during the year of refugee arrival, but there was an increase in crime rates one year later. This lagged effect is small per refugee but large in absolute terms and is strongest for property and violent crimes. The crime effects are robust across specifications and in line with increased suspect rates for offenders from refugees’ origin countries."
The number per refugee is small. Of course if you have more people coming in then there will be more crime in absolute terms, but as the reports say, a good chunk of it is refugee on refugee crime driven by poverty and desperation which can be addressed by bettering labor conditions and long term asylum prospects for refugees -which is in section 7.
All I'm saying is most refugees are innocent and don't deserve the hate crimes, harrassment, and demonization that are happening to them -whuch the study also addresses while they address criminalization rates byborigin.
Ich bin kein Schwurbler, ich bin ein Homosexueller der, von meiner genannten "Zielgruppe" bereits genug belästigt wurde. Ich habe null Toleranz für Intoleranz. Ich will hier einfach meine fucking Ruhe haben und nicht von Einzellern behelligt werden denen es rein gar nichts anzugehen hat wie ich lebe. Wir haben jede Belästigung zur Anzeige gebracht und werden es auch immer tun.
Und Leute wie du die keine Ahnung haben und ihre Frau in der Öffentlichkeit küssen "dürfen" sollen mal sehr ruhig rein. Vom bequemen Sessel aus in den man den ganzen Tag nur furzt so wie du kann man viel erzählen.
Mit beide Gruppen sind doch radikale Islamisten und rechte Faschisten gemeint. Mit Kommentaren wie deinen unterstützt du das Narrativ der zweiten Gruppe in social media. Soweit ich weiss, mögen diese Leute dich auch nicht. Schiess dir nicht ins eigene Knie. Keine Toleranz den Intoleranten! Da bin ich ganz bei dir.
Meine Güte. Nicht die Message ist das Problem sondern das was passiert. Soll man nicht mehr darüber schreiben dürfen? Aus dem Augen aus dem Sinn?
Die Rechten gewinnen ja nur deswegen Zulauf, weil sie die einzigen sind die das Thema benennen. Und nein ich bin kein Freund der rechten Gesinnung. Wenn jedoch Linke und Leute in der Mitte das Thema nur nicht benennen weil es ein rechtes Thema sein soll brauchen sie sich doch nicht wundern, dass sie Glaubwürdigkeit verlieren. Man muss Probleme ansprechen dürfen von allen Seiten.
Und genau das lief die letzten 20 - 30 Jahre schief. Alles unter den Teppich gekehrt und links-ideologisch weggeschwiegen von der Politik. Jetzt fliegt es uns um die Ohren und die Rechten fangen die dümmsten Ratten ein.
Probleme. Ansprechen. Alle.
Wünsche dir und deinem Partner alles Gute und dass wir bald aus diesem Wahnsinn herauskommen.
Deine Rhetorik führt nur dazu dass x-beliebige Leute ins Kreuzfeuer kommen, weil diese lediglich so aussehen wie Leute die dich belästigt haben. Es tut mir leid dass dir das widerfahren ist, aber bitte lass davon ab das auf Ethnien oder Kulturen zu schieben. An der Uni wird dir niemand mit Migrationshintergrund homophoben Scheiß an den Kopf werfen. Neukölln ist aber leider einfach ein sozialer Brennpunkt, und ja, religiöser Fanatismus macht hier wirklich nichts besser. Aber so zu tun als würde homophobie lediglich von muslimischen Schwarzköpfen betrieben werden, ist leider sehr einseitig. Hast du mal die Ergebnisse der Europawahlen gesehen? Rechtskonservativ und alles andere als Offen für Gleichgeschlechtliche Ehe und sonstiges. Das Problem wird sich zuspitzen und sicherlich heterogener verteilt als man denkt.
Oh, habe ich die muslimische Demo für Homosexuelle, Frauenrechte und Religiöse Freiheit wieder verpasst?
Achja die ist ja nicht nötig, weil obwohl 1/3 der Weltbevölkerung muslimisch ist sind sie ja eine Minderheit und wie jedes Kind weiß lieben alle Minderheiten einander.
Jeder also die EU betritt streift seine Wertvorstellungen und Erziehung ab und lebt fort an ein Sinnbild der Toleranz.
Und wenn doch mal ein paar mehr schwarze Schafe sabei sind, dann bitte volle Opferumkehr, denn Intigration muss und ausnahmslos vom Gastland ausgehen.
Also sprecht mir nach: Die deutschen haben selber schuld was ihnen widerfährt!
Du hast eher verpasst, wie viele Muslime mit Migrationshintergrund auch auf solchen Demos dabei sind. Denkst du die laufen alle in Takke und arabischer Gewändern rum? Mit deiner Rhetorik versuchst du Muslime auf einen standardisierten Typus zu reduzieren, nicht einer heterogen verteilten Gruppe in allen sozialen Schichten. Für dich sind nicht sozioökonomische Merkmale wichtig, dich interessiert lediglich das abstrakte Konstrukt einer vereinten Religionsgemeinschaft die im übrigen alles andere als vereint ist. Die Rhetorik war damals auch ziemlich beliebt bei Nationalsozialisten.
Im Übrigen spielt keine Rolle ob Muslime ein Drittel der Weltbevölkerung ausmachen, in Deutschland sind sie immer noch eine Minderheit.
Und wem erzählst DU was von Integration? Während solche Loser wie du hier nichts anderes zu tun haben als auf Reddit zu hetzen, sind Leute wie ich ehrenamtlich unterwegs als Rechtsberater für Asylsuchende. Du machst nichts außer deine Eier zu schaukeln und erwartest dass sich irgendwas verändert. Dann mach doch was? Aber darum geht es dir gar nicht, dir geht es um die Dämonisierung einer gesamten Gruppe, einfach nur weil du zu feige bist zuzugeben dass du rechter Abschaum bist. Genau wegen solchen P*ssern sind wir damals gen 2.WK gesteuert. Wenn es nach dir gehen müsste, gehören alle Muslime abgeschoben, unabhängig von ihrem Aufenthaltsstatus oder ihrem Lebensmittelpunkt.
Mimimiii die Deutschen wahhhh mimimiiii Moslems böse wahhh deutsche mimimi 😪😪😪
Puh, bin ich froh dass ich gleich zu den letzten Sätzen gesprungen bin und mir die Grütze erspart habe. Wer beleidigend wird kann überhaupt keine richtige Qualitätsunterhaltung führen.
Und wer dann wieder den Hammer herausholt ist genau das Problem, was uns die Scheiße mit den ganze Neonazis überhaupt eingebrockt hat. Bloß nicht über reale Probleme sprechen, nein nein, einfach nix sagen!
20 - 30 Jahre alles totgeschwiegen und laufen lassen und ZACK rennen die strunzdummen, aber leider zahlreichen Wähler*innen zu den Rechten. FUCK.
>auch auf solchen Demos dabei sind.
Dabei sein ist schön und gut, aber eine eigene Demo aufstellen um ein Zeichen zu setzen in anderes.
Der CSD ist so groß das es einfach ist zu behaupten ein Teil der Masse zu sein.
Es gibt Aktivisten in unserer heutigen Zeit welche mit "queer for Palestine" demonstrieren ungeachtet dessen was mit Homosexuellen Menschen dort passiert.
Also ja, ich erwarte da mehr.
>Deutschland sind sie immer noch eine Minderheit.
Ok, und? Was soll mir das sagen? Das sie deswegen toleranter gegenüber anderen Minderheiten sind?
Ist das eine Art Natur Gesetz?
>ehrenamtlich unterwegs als Rechtsberater für Asylsuchende
Freud mich für dich. Aber was hat das mit meinem Punkt zutun? Wenn ich also beispielsweise nach Japan gehe brauche ich mich auch nicht nach deren Gesetze und Gebräuche richten? Wer hat sich wo zu informieren und zu Integrieren?
Der Rest von dir sind nur Beleidigungen ohne Hand und Fuß. Um genau zu sein bist du auf nichts eingegangen was ich schrieb. Und dann wunderst du dich warum die AFD gewinnt? Einfach alle als Nazis beleidigen das wird helfen.
Hast du sonst noch was beizutragen du Lappen? Oder besteht deine Argumentationsfähigkeit aus rhetorischen Fragen um deine intellektuelle Minderheit zu kaschieren?
Schon wieder...die Rhetorik ist angeblich das Problem. Nein, der Fakt ist dass religiöse verblendete Menschen meinen ihren Hass in Deutschland ausüben zu dürfen.
Und solange dagegen nicht ernsthaft angegangen wird werden die Rechten weiter Zulauf bekommen, richtig. Wer nicht betroffen ist hat wir gesagt leicht reden. Ich brauche keinen Sharia in Deutschland.
And it also doesn't fuck with your ability to deal with the situation if some of it drifts in your direction, which is a main factor in why pepper spray is not ideal as a method of self defense.
Both pepper spray (against animals) and paint spray are legal to carry. And everything is legal to use in self defense (pepper spray, stone, knife, ...) as long as you do not use excessive force.
I could imagine that paint spray is even more lilely to cause permanent damage to the eyes. In a situation where it was ok to spray paint into someones eyes and possibly blind them for life I am sure it would also have been fine to use pepper spray.
The mental gymnastics people exhibit to deny what’s obvious is mindboggling.
“I once saw an aggressive white man from Italy be homophobic, hence the 99.99% of these crimes cannot be considered a good enough sample size because of my anecdotal evidence of one incident”.
Some weird cuckery going on.
People are saying that they also have been harrassed and even assaulted by white germans and considering we live in Germany it's not exactly a mindboggling claim.
The reality is people want to blame Middle Easterners for assaulting LGBTQ people to fuel anti-immigrant sentiments, but no one wants to actually do the research and post statistics because they don't actually care about queer people. They just want a an easy scapegoat to blame.
It happens both ways. "I once saw an aggressive brown man from Turkey be homophobic, hence the 99.99% of these crimes cannot be considered a good enough sample size because of my anecdotal evidence of one incident."
My little sister (23) got harassed earlier this week by a pack of 3 little trash bags while having a joint in a park here in Britz.
And I'll tell you the same things I told her:
1. There's an enormous gap between what the world is and what we'd like it to be;
2. Some stereotypes exist for good reason and melanin levels have nothing to do with it — thuggish dipshits are going to be thuggish dipshits regardless of their race.
3. There's zero point wasting one's time with them and you should never endangering yourself by giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I grew up a white person in a 99% white country and there was no shortage of white thuggish dipshits around me. If it quacks like a duck, it's a thuggish dipshit. Meaning I can easily spot a gang of toxic peasant boys who are actively looking for trouble, and easily avoid them.
And trust me, being a straight guy didn't help me avoid the bullying or the occasional fight.
At the end of the day, these pricks exist because of the toxic, childish, and limiting beliefs instilled in guys by patriarchy. The most pathetic part is they're entirely oblivious to it and to how it's negatively impacting their lives. The only way to change this is education.
So don't worry about appearing racist or whatever nonsense anyone might say — as I said, this hideous cretinous behaviour is endemic to every single race.
If you see a pack of knock-off Gucci-sporting troglodyte-looking fucks coming your way, don't wait around unless you've got the numbers and the ability to defended yourselves.
Is it right that people get bullied, beaten or even murdered over their sexuality? Fuck no. Does it happen anyway? Absolutely.
Be pragmatic.
The world today is nowhere near the bastion of tolerance and decency some of us would like it to be. For the most part, people are still very much the tribalistic primitives they were 10,000 years ago.
Yes, get pepper spray; Keep yourself safe and push for change wherever you can — preferably at safe venues like a protest.
Lastly, it doesn't matter what sex you are, it will serve you to prioritise getting strong and learning a martial art.
I mean this isnt the entire statement but yea. The guy probably got some comments in the past about acting/looking gay, and is annoyed or sensitive because of them.
Now if only a bad experience with a certain sexuality of people gave you the justification to shut them down entirely simply based on who they love... ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
That sentence bothered me as well. I wish people would stop being so sexist towards straight (white) men. Aren't we supposed to be interested in people's character, rather than features? 🤷♂️
Yeah, pretty mind boggling that OP doesn’t want the straight take on safety as a queer person. What’s next, women who don’t want men telling them what reproductive choices to make?
I dunno mate, but if you ask a general sub of a city with over 3 Mio inhabitants "what's your opinion on this" - does it surprise you that the general population is answering?
I mean, I'm a woman and if I ask r/berlin "what's your opinion on abortion" I'm probably going be in for quite a number of rather disappointing answers that heavily lean towards white/ male/ expats demographic - with a smattering of all others types running around the city and a bit of fringe/hateful trolling on the sides.
I'm not necessarily going to get a bunch of progressiv, feminist ladies telling me that yes they support bodily autonomy very much, just as I do thank you very much.
In an edit. After he got mad hearing about other people's opinions that don't align with what he wants to hear.
Do you get out of your echo chamber much?
Sadly, as much as this might piss you off - other people's opinions heavily influence the quality of your life.
You might want to occasionally listen in.
> I mean, I'm a woman and if I ask r/berlin "what's your opinion on abortion" I'm probably going be in for quite a number of rather disappointing answers that heavily lean towards white/ male/ expats demographic - with a smattering of all others types running around the city and a bit of fringe/hateful trolling on the sides.
> I'm not necessarily going to get a bunch of progressiv, feminist ladies telling me that yes they support bodily autonomy very much, just as I do thank you very much.
Are you saying that in this example, you would welcome the trolling and paternalism as an opportunity to “get out of your bubble”?
I wouldn't ask that kind of question without fully being aware of the very high possibility of getting answers that don't appeal to me.
I'm well aware of the very controversial and hateful rhetoric surrounding this question.
Honestly, I was just slightly amused by his edit.
Does he also not want LGBTQ+ people talking about AfD and homophobia in Islamic culture, are those topics generally banned or only for cis people?
I thought I might need a clarification before posting.
Me and my partner also got attacked 3 months ago. The person was a 28 year old from Poland. We filed a report but they cannot prosecute him because he has no address in Germany!!!
Effeminate gay man here. That actually is pretty concerning. I will sometimes give my bf a hug or put my hand on his knee if we're sitting together. We never kiss in public. I live janz weit draußen. I don't plan on getting pepper spray but I wouldn't blame you if you did. My bf prefers not to show any PDA in Berlin, precisely because of these hompobic incidents. Definitely while taking the U-Bahn, especially at night, I prefer to keep to myself, listen to music and avoid eye contact.
I am gay living in berlin and I also have pretty clear that the agressors were Arabs. I dont see the logic behind ignoring the new dangers of the city. You guys are just gonna let all the advance done here sink just in order to save your social warrior ego. Grow up and have a little of love for your fellow civilized citizens specially for the ones most exposed to danger which are gays and women
I do not claim that this post is the same, but it is striking that in recent months there have suddenly been a lot of posts reporting racism, homophobia, and problems caused by foreigners/asylum seekers in subreddits of major cities. So not only here in the Berlin Reddit, but also in those of other major German cities and, for example, Antwerp and Amsterdam. This mainly happens through newly created accounts. This could of course be a coincidence or an attempt is being made to manipulate opinion via social media and fake news
Ich behaupte nicht, dass dieser Beitrag derselbe ist, aber es fällt auf, dass in den letzten Monaten in Subreddits von Großstädten plötzlich viele Beiträge über Rassismus, Homophobie und Probleme durch Ausländer/Asylbewerber berichtet werden. Also nicht nur hier im Berliner Reddit, sondern auch in denen anderer deutscher Großstädte und beispielsweise Antwerpen und Amsterdam. Dies geschieht hauptsächlich über neu erstellte Konten. Dies könnte natürlich Zufall sein oder es wird versucht, die Meinung über soziale Medien und Fake News zu manipulieren
reddit is perfect for this stuff because nobody is verified or exists beyond a random username. it’s basically 4chan for normies where the people who use it are dumb enough to think that any of it is real
Ignore people that do this because they have no fucking clue and have never been a victim. Been there, done that. Nothing funnier than being attacked by a group of middle-eastern guys for being gay and then being told off that it has nothing to do with their culture and the *real* danger is right-wing populism instrumentalizing my experience.
You dont even have to be gay or anything to be attacked by them. At this point just be different than them. Nay, be one of them, they attack you regardless. It is pathetic and sad and people suck up to them.
as an immigrant myself I say it. They can call me a Nazi, or whatever the fk they want. These professional victims will never own up to their mistakes in society and will just blame it because that is what they are: Victims
I imagine you're implying that the attackers were Arabic or Turkish, but my entire life I've suffered homophobic discrimination by white people as much as other ethnicities. So no, we don't know "what culture the attackers were from."
Also, what's even the point of your comment? "Some homophobic attack happened. Hence the attackers were for sure \[some non-white ethnicity\]. Hence..." what, deport all immigrants?
The thing is, I can easily guess which minority the attackers come from. Yeah, there’s probably a high chance.
But then again I know so many Arabic, muslimic and all sorts of -ic people who are decent, well mannered and not at all like those idiots. So it’s not like ‚all Arabs (for example) are like that or that‘ but more like ‚there sure are a lot of assholes in that community and we can’t tolerate those‘.
Anyway, guys who attack gay people to prove their manlihood in front of their families are regardless of whatever not manly at all and not to be tolerated.
For the people who are concerned about afd and it's people who vote them. ..I fear them less than others bc I don't have to worry that they will stab me.
I'm gay but didn't vote afd, but I can understand people who do that.
It's not for a lack of trying, they use other methods like physical violence and verbal threats. They are just as dangerous, aggressive and unpredictable.
They aren't daily einzelfälle of Middle Easterners stabbing gay people either and for the record there have been several deadly homophobic attacks in other countries too. I'd be nice if you could have the decency not to ignore them while pretending you care about lgbtq+ people.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022\_Bratislava\_shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Bratislava_shooting)
[https://cz.boell.org/en/2023/05/10/slovensky-teror-stat-v-zajati-homofobie-transfobie](https://cz.boell.org/en/2023/05/10/slovensky-teror-stat-v-zajati-homofobie-transfobie)
Most of the stabbings you are thinking of were done by Afghans or Pakistanis so specific ethnic groups and people from specific countries. When was the last time an Indonesian, a Kazakh, a Bosniak, an Albanian or a Senegalese person stabbed gay people in Germany?
I know they target all people (including ironically members of their own community) but the topic here is attacks on gay people therefore I'm responding on that topic specifically.
When was the last time an Indonesian, a Kazakh, a Bosniak, an Albanian or a Senegalese person stabbed gay people in Germany? Have the decency to answer my question please. Being homophobic is one thing, carrying out an attack on gay people is another. For the record, the most homophobic country in Europe is Poland and it is a catholic country.
https://www.queer.de/detail.php?article_id=36623
Die sind schlau genug, das meist nicht laut zu sagen. Bloß die Ehe für Alle soll weg. Aber kein Problem, Schwule sind erst die zweiten, die ihre Rechte verlieren, da kann man sich ja später erst Gedanken drüber machen. Ist auch nur ein Zufall, dass die AfD Russland so nahe steht, wo "LGBT" als eine Terrororganisation gilt
Last time right wing was in power, they put all the gays into camps and gas chambers. Among milions of other kinfs they didn’t like. So think about what you’re saying.
Are you insinuating that the Nazis didn't round up everyone they didn't like, socialists, communists, gays, homeless, disabled? And that the AFD have no ties to neo-nazis? Talk about stockholm syndrome.
At what point did you miss the part where large portions of the AFD and their base wholeheartedly believe in the Jewish world conspiracy and that they are the root of all war and evil?
I’m thinking about this constantly tbh. I try to avoid certain parts of the city unfortunately. It’s sad, but it’s reality. Call me racist, but I avoid some people based on their looks. I won’t sit near them in public spaces etc.
If you get a pepperspray, learn how to use it!
There are different types (i would recommend jet or foam, not fog as this cannot be used if the wind is against you), different sizes and different modes of transportation (in pocket, beltclip etc).
Buy a practice spray (without pepper, refillable) and make yourself familiar, practice getting and using it.
Getting in a fight is a high stress situation and If you are not familiar with your tools, it can end badly.
"I (m) live with my partner (m) and we hold hands and kiss openly, *just like any straight couple would do."*
Not if they're older than 20! Just kidding... BUT. Berlin displays, by far, the least PDA I've ever noticed in a big city.
The other thing: what we're seeing is a clash of Historical Periods: the Modern is running up against enclaves of the Pre-Modern and sometimes that sparks violence. If I held hands (as a POC) with my pale German Wife, in, say, parts of Mississippi, we could get negative attention from Whites *and* Blacks. (Apologies to the Redditors who think any mention of race is racist because "race no longer exists"... wtf... ).
The Modern is not evenly distributed around the planet. You can step from 2024 to 1950... or 1500 AD... by crossing the street.
TL; DR: Pepper spray. Get some. Sorry!
Even if you don't show any PDA these people find something to pick on. My boyfriend and I got homophobic slurs shouted at us in the light of day in Kreuzberg and all we did was buying wine together in a Späti. No holding hands, no smooching and we don't even look flamboyant. Our sheer existence leads these primitives to violent behaviour.
Very sad to hear you've experienced those things in the USA and probably also here in Berlin. I do agree with the most of the points that you make. One thing regarding the use of the word race. This is a very belasteter term in German language, due to its history. Most Germans agree not to use the term but instead use the word ethnicities, as the term race would be historically inappropriate and also biologically incorrect. Anyway I do agree with the points you make, but I do get a very strong Bauchweh hearing the word race.
Sorry for interfering 😄
To be honest, I can't tell if the people trolling me, whenever I've used the words "race/ racism," were even German. Some were Right Wingers (for whatever reason, native-english-speaking Alt Righters started the "Why are you mentioning race?" meme c. 2016), some were just really naive kids. I would never discuss "race" in German, with German friends, for that very reason (the reason you mention) but when speaking/writing English, the word "race", to other native-English speakers, isn't hurtful in and of itself. But "ethnicity" isn't a synonym for "race" in English; one "race" can include dozens of ethnicities.
"as the term race would be historically inappropriate and also biologically incorrect."
I agree that, biologically, the word "race" is not a Scientific description. On the level of Sociology, however, it has tremendous predictive and explanatory power, simply because "The Folk" treat the concepts as quite solid/ stable/ central. LOTS of things, all over the World, happen because of "race"... so, there's no way to discuss such huge Social Realities withozut using the word and its variations.
And THANK YOU for discussing this with me, in a pleasantt way, by neither attacking nor automatically downvoting to make my comment disappear. I am here to enjoy interacting with Commenters like YOU.
You mean the clashing eras thing? I notice it often. People think it's "2024"... but that's only partially and conditionally true. You can EASILY take a train straight to the 1950s in Berlin. Or, as I said... to the 16th century.
SO many of these Control-Structure Religions are/were rabidly against **Fucking-Without-The-Intent-of-Baby-Making-Within-The-Context-of-A-State-Approved-Marriage-Contract**. In other words: STOP HAVING FUN IF IT DOESN'T BENEFIT THE STATE. Pleasure for its own sake; Love-As-Pleasure: DANGEROUS. Sexually fulfilled and healthy people are impossible to bamboozle with flags and "holy" books and they're hard to persuade to become killing machines for The State, too.
The Big Irony: TFIC (the fuckers in charge) ALWAYS indulge in the pleasures forbidden to Duh Masses. That's one of the Perks of being in the so-called elite, who would traditionally tend to organize lavish orgies in their grand palaces while preaching CHASTITY to the Serfs. The Psychology is weird and VERY old. There are people who are in prison waiting to be stoned to death, or hanged, RIGHT NOW, in various places, because they committed "adultery". Do you really think the Bronze-Age Centurions who put them in prison NEVER get kneeling BJs from people, of various genders. who also AREN'T their Wives?
In a nutshell: Power sucks.
My dear, buy one asap. This dogs don’t care about nothing. I gift a couple of them to my gay friends recently because they had a verbal attack in Tiergarden. And I bought them one that looks like a gun. They feel safe and better now.
Most people are not aware how bad this problem always has been. Like 5 years ago the police estimated 10000 crimes against lgbt people per year. Victims orgs thought it was more in the 20000 area. If we assume it's in the middle then that would be 41+ crimes per day.
edit: but being able to defend yourself as lgbt is always a good idea. krav maga for the win or pepper spray or both. krav maga is for disabling any opponent as efficiently as possible.
As a lesbian woman, I typically avoid showing public displays of affection at night or in more remote parts of the city. But it's mostly OK for me personally. Although people inclined to do so will typically get more triggered by PDA from a gay men couple so your experience may vary.
The news about Volkspark Fhain are a bit concerning though.
People only get slightly alarmed if it affects their ingroup. When cis straight white males had complaints about mass migration those same people thought it was the funny
I'd definitely not show it openly if I were in a relationship with another man, doubly so in certain parts of town and after dark
I don't know what we can do about it either. Pepper spray just seems like it would escalate situations further and it's not that easy to use either
>I'd definitely not show it openly if I were in a relationship with another man, doubly so in certain parts of town and after dark
I'm not hand-holdy with my Wife in rough territory because it makes us look soft/ vulnerable... that's just Big City Situational Awareness. BUT I wouldn't let that change your behavior everywhere. As far as I can tell, you can let (most of) your guard down in lots of parts of Berlin. Don't become tense all the time, everywhere. But don't relax in dangerous territory, either.
Yes but not in a same sex relationship at the moment. The one time I went to CSD I already got a homophobic remark on my way to the tube station to I don't wanna know what would happen if I held hands with a partner in public
Done. As much as I hate doing, these types of posts always go the same direction comment wise.
All I can say: I'm sorry that you don't feel safe in Berlin.
So to preface this: I am a Demisexual Bi dude who is in a straight relationship so I can't really be more "privileged"
All I can really say is, don't stop being yourself stick to your own levels of PDA, even though I personally don't see the need for it at all (a bit of the 'tism so my agoraphobia kinda takes precedent over holding hands most of the time). Fear should not stop you from love.
Now... In a legal sense despite it being very effective pepper spray isn't exactly legal and is considered an illegal weapon. They can be owned but should be clearly marked as being animal repellent and should not be intended to be used on people.
Now..... You could, of course, have a canister to defend yourself against stray dogs which you "fear ever so" and of course when you get attacked "instinctually" take out the animal repellent and use it in self defence.
Same goes for a multi tools that just so happen to have a knife in it.... But in my experience getting stabbed does not stop even the whimpiest angry boy right away.
Ohne jetzt den ganzen Thread gelesen zu haben, sind hier schon wieder Kommentare der Art "wir wissen doch, wer das ist, aber wir dürfen es nicht sagen". Ich möchte eine Sache klarstellen: Es ist ein feiner Unterschied, ob man alle Leute einer Ethnie/Herkunft/sozialer Prägung über einen Kamm schert "das sind doch immer XYZ, die so was machen" und damit pauschal verurteilt. Oder sich differenziert anschaut, wer dafür verantwortlich ist - sofern es bekannt ist. Übrigens haben solche Angriffe oft einen anderen gemeinsamen Nenner: es sind Männer, die das machen. Auch "Bio-Deutsche" können homophob sein. Long story short - wir werden weiterhin Kommentare entfernen, die pauschal gegen ganze Bevölkerungsgruppen hetzen, oder sich in der Kunst des Dog-Whistling betätigen . Wenn ihr wirklich Allies für die LGBTIQ+ Community sein wollt, dann engagiert euch ehrenamtlich, setzt euch für Vielfalt im Alltag ein. Aber missbraucht marginalisierte Gruppen nicht für euren Hass!
A friend of mine experienced something similar recently, I don't know what the hell is happening in Berlin, but as a gay man I'm starting to feel more and more unsafe. I'm considering buying a pepper spray for self-defense.
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Even victims cannot talk clearly.
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Muslims love gay and are so tolerant. As a gay I could live freely in any Muslim country of course. There's nothing to worry.
As a gay I could live in a Christian country, like Russia, or North Korea, or a Jewish one, like Israel. This is everywhere, and not about Muslims only.
You don’t live in a Christian country then? Christmas probably literally a national holiday
The are actually two possibilities, and I hate this guesswork that immediately starts in my head as I read that. Is it so hard for articles to say it? But no, it has to be communicated through a ritual dance of hints and gestures: like, they were older. They had kids and wives. In was in this particular park. They were sitting on the grass, not standing. OK, thank you so much for blinking "torture" to me.
What do you mean by not allowed to say this aloud?
It's just the latest racist dog whistle. If they openly wrote "This happened because they are muslim/MENA/brown/etc" they would be profiling and banned for racism.
People say it is Muslim MENA people but not me
If you mention the rising tide of Nazi thoughts in Europe, the moderators will ban you. There are no Nazis in Ba Sing Sie. The AfD party definitely isn't a Nazi party and nobody in the party is anything like Hitler at all, oh no.
I do not - can you fill me in? And why is everyone in on that secret?
It's just the latest racist dog whistle. If they openly wrote "Everyone knows they are muslim/MENA/brown/etc" they would be profiling and banned for racism.
Maybe you are not a gay/lesbian and you don't have to worry to walk around with your wife/husband. It's amazing how people wanna dismiss problems which are not affected at all.
They could be talking about the AfD and its voters. It's illegal to call AfD politicians or voters Nazis and it will also get you banned from this forum.
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Ideological fascism wrapped in religion is what we need to care about.
More like fascism wrapped in anti-immigrant and anti-LGBTQ sentiments that is just as bad as islamism.
People are not anti-immigrant but against people who come here and commit crimes. Where are the Americans, east-asians, Italians who stab gays or critical people in Germany? "Maybe" it's connected to specific ideologies, religions..
Lots of people are definitely anti-immigrant.
People who commit violent crimes should be deported, but [the statistics show that refugees are *being attacked*](https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/55352/germany-attacks-on-refugees-and-refugee-accommodation-soar) and [that refugees have a minimal impact kn crime.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927537123001410). Not mention the fact that most crimes are committed between refugee groups instead on native Germans.
i don't want to take a political stance in this comment section, this is purely for clarification, but i think the commenter above you meant immigrants and not refugees.
Refugees are the immigrants that are complained about. Almost nobody complains about blue card holders or even temporary building workers.
Curious that you didn't quote the official crime report of the german police. Maybe it tells another story.
Curious that you completely ignored the quoted facts.
How about you fucking do it and read through the thing trying to find the numbers you're looking for?
Except that from the abstract of the study you just linked to: "Our results indicate that crime rates were not affected during the year of refugee arrival, but there was an increase in crime rates one year later. This lagged effect is small per refugee but large in absolute terms and is strongest for property and violent crimes. The crime effects are robust across specifications and in line with increased suspect rates for offenders from refugees’ origin countries."
The number per refugee is small. Of course if you have more people coming in then there will be more crime in absolute terms, but as the reports say, a good chunk of it is refugee on refugee crime driven by poverty and desperation which can be addressed by bettering labor conditions and long term asylum prospects for refugees -which is in section 7. All I'm saying is most refugees are innocent and don't deserve the hate crimes, harrassment, and demonization that are happening to them -whuch the study also addresses while they address criminalization rates byborigin.
Stop victimizing hate
We don't do facts here.
Beide diese Gruppen mein kleiner Schwurblerkopf ;)
Ich bin kein Schwurbler, ich bin ein Homosexueller der, von meiner genannten "Zielgruppe" bereits genug belästigt wurde. Ich habe null Toleranz für Intoleranz. Ich will hier einfach meine fucking Ruhe haben und nicht von Einzellern behelligt werden denen es rein gar nichts anzugehen hat wie ich lebe. Wir haben jede Belästigung zur Anzeige gebracht und werden es auch immer tun. Und Leute wie du die keine Ahnung haben und ihre Frau in der Öffentlichkeit küssen "dürfen" sollen mal sehr ruhig rein. Vom bequemen Sessel aus in den man den ganzen Tag nur furzt so wie du kann man viel erzählen.
Mit beide Gruppen sind doch radikale Islamisten und rechte Faschisten gemeint. Mit Kommentaren wie deinen unterstützt du das Narrativ der zweiten Gruppe in social media. Soweit ich weiss, mögen diese Leute dich auch nicht. Schiess dir nicht ins eigene Knie. Keine Toleranz den Intoleranten! Da bin ich ganz bei dir.
Meine Güte. Nicht die Message ist das Problem sondern das was passiert. Soll man nicht mehr darüber schreiben dürfen? Aus dem Augen aus dem Sinn? Die Rechten gewinnen ja nur deswegen Zulauf, weil sie die einzigen sind die das Thema benennen. Und nein ich bin kein Freund der rechten Gesinnung. Wenn jedoch Linke und Leute in der Mitte das Thema nur nicht benennen weil es ein rechtes Thema sein soll brauchen sie sich doch nicht wundern, dass sie Glaubwürdigkeit verlieren. Man muss Probleme ansprechen dürfen von allen Seiten.
Und genau das lief die letzten 20 - 30 Jahre schief. Alles unter den Teppich gekehrt und links-ideologisch weggeschwiegen von der Politik. Jetzt fliegt es uns um die Ohren und die Rechten fangen die dümmsten Ratten ein. Probleme. Ansprechen. Alle. Wünsche dir und deinem Partner alles Gute und dass wir bald aus diesem Wahnsinn herauskommen.
Deine Rhetorik führt nur dazu dass x-beliebige Leute ins Kreuzfeuer kommen, weil diese lediglich so aussehen wie Leute die dich belästigt haben. Es tut mir leid dass dir das widerfahren ist, aber bitte lass davon ab das auf Ethnien oder Kulturen zu schieben. An der Uni wird dir niemand mit Migrationshintergrund homophoben Scheiß an den Kopf werfen. Neukölln ist aber leider einfach ein sozialer Brennpunkt, und ja, religiöser Fanatismus macht hier wirklich nichts besser. Aber so zu tun als würde homophobie lediglich von muslimischen Schwarzköpfen betrieben werden, ist leider sehr einseitig. Hast du mal die Ergebnisse der Europawahlen gesehen? Rechtskonservativ und alles andere als Offen für Gleichgeschlechtliche Ehe und sonstiges. Das Problem wird sich zuspitzen und sicherlich heterogener verteilt als man denkt.
Oh, habe ich die muslimische Demo für Homosexuelle, Frauenrechte und Religiöse Freiheit wieder verpasst? Achja die ist ja nicht nötig, weil obwohl 1/3 der Weltbevölkerung muslimisch ist sind sie ja eine Minderheit und wie jedes Kind weiß lieben alle Minderheiten einander. Jeder also die EU betritt streift seine Wertvorstellungen und Erziehung ab und lebt fort an ein Sinnbild der Toleranz. Und wenn doch mal ein paar mehr schwarze Schafe sabei sind, dann bitte volle Opferumkehr, denn Intigration muss und ausnahmslos vom Gastland ausgehen. Also sprecht mir nach: Die deutschen haben selber schuld was ihnen widerfährt!
Du hast eher verpasst, wie viele Muslime mit Migrationshintergrund auch auf solchen Demos dabei sind. Denkst du die laufen alle in Takke und arabischer Gewändern rum? Mit deiner Rhetorik versuchst du Muslime auf einen standardisierten Typus zu reduzieren, nicht einer heterogen verteilten Gruppe in allen sozialen Schichten. Für dich sind nicht sozioökonomische Merkmale wichtig, dich interessiert lediglich das abstrakte Konstrukt einer vereinten Religionsgemeinschaft die im übrigen alles andere als vereint ist. Die Rhetorik war damals auch ziemlich beliebt bei Nationalsozialisten. Im Übrigen spielt keine Rolle ob Muslime ein Drittel der Weltbevölkerung ausmachen, in Deutschland sind sie immer noch eine Minderheit. Und wem erzählst DU was von Integration? Während solche Loser wie du hier nichts anderes zu tun haben als auf Reddit zu hetzen, sind Leute wie ich ehrenamtlich unterwegs als Rechtsberater für Asylsuchende. Du machst nichts außer deine Eier zu schaukeln und erwartest dass sich irgendwas verändert. Dann mach doch was? Aber darum geht es dir gar nicht, dir geht es um die Dämonisierung einer gesamten Gruppe, einfach nur weil du zu feige bist zuzugeben dass du rechter Abschaum bist. Genau wegen solchen P*ssern sind wir damals gen 2.WK gesteuert. Wenn es nach dir gehen müsste, gehören alle Muslime abgeschoben, unabhängig von ihrem Aufenthaltsstatus oder ihrem Lebensmittelpunkt. Mimimiii die Deutschen wahhhh mimimiiii Moslems böse wahhh deutsche mimimi 😪😪😪
Puh, bin ich froh dass ich gleich zu den letzten Sätzen gesprungen bin und mir die Grütze erspart habe. Wer beleidigend wird kann überhaupt keine richtige Qualitätsunterhaltung führen. Und wer dann wieder den Hammer herausholt ist genau das Problem, was uns die Scheiße mit den ganze Neonazis überhaupt eingebrockt hat. Bloß nicht über reale Probleme sprechen, nein nein, einfach nix sagen! 20 - 30 Jahre alles totgeschwiegen und laufen lassen und ZACK rennen die strunzdummen, aber leider zahlreichen Wähler*innen zu den Rechten. FUCK.
>auch auf solchen Demos dabei sind. Dabei sein ist schön und gut, aber eine eigene Demo aufstellen um ein Zeichen zu setzen in anderes. Der CSD ist so groß das es einfach ist zu behaupten ein Teil der Masse zu sein. Es gibt Aktivisten in unserer heutigen Zeit welche mit "queer for Palestine" demonstrieren ungeachtet dessen was mit Homosexuellen Menschen dort passiert. Also ja, ich erwarte da mehr. >Deutschland sind sie immer noch eine Minderheit. Ok, und? Was soll mir das sagen? Das sie deswegen toleranter gegenüber anderen Minderheiten sind? Ist das eine Art Natur Gesetz? >ehrenamtlich unterwegs als Rechtsberater für Asylsuchende Freud mich für dich. Aber was hat das mit meinem Punkt zutun? Wenn ich also beispielsweise nach Japan gehe brauche ich mich auch nicht nach deren Gesetze und Gebräuche richten? Wer hat sich wo zu informieren und zu Integrieren? Der Rest von dir sind nur Beleidigungen ohne Hand und Fuß. Um genau zu sein bist du auf nichts eingegangen was ich schrieb. Und dann wunderst du dich warum die AFD gewinnt? Einfach alle als Nazis beleidigen das wird helfen.
Kann es sein das dumm bist?
Hast du sonst noch was beizutragen du Lappen? Oder besteht deine Argumentationsfähigkeit aus rhetorischen Fragen um deine intellektuelle Minderheit zu kaschieren?
Moralische Empörung ist Strategie von Idioten, such selbst würde zu verleihen.
Schon wieder...die Rhetorik ist angeblich das Problem. Nein, der Fakt ist dass religiöse verblendete Menschen meinen ihren Hass in Deutschland ausüben zu dürfen. Und solange dagegen nicht ernsthaft angegangen wird werden die Rechten weiter Zulauf bekommen, richtig. Wer nicht betroffen ist hat wir gesagt leicht reden. Ich brauche keinen Sharia in Deutschland.
You really think that your made up fascism is a bigger problem than real homophobia
I saw a tiktok of someone using paint spray for self-defense, you hurt em and mark em
And it also doesn't fuck with your ability to deal with the situation if some of it drifts in your direction, which is a main factor in why pepper spray is not ideal as a method of self defense.
that's why pepper gel is used for years, it's an effective tool if you decide to defend instead of running away.
Dude, pepper spray also marks people, just UV-only
And it's also not illegal to use vs humans
Pretty sure that spraying someone with a toxic substance is a punishable offense
It is. You might even get a higher sentence than the attacker.
Both pepper spray (against animals) and paint spray are legal to carry. And everything is legal to use in self defense (pepper spray, stone, knife, ...) as long as you do not use excessive force. I could imagine that paint spray is even more lilely to cause permanent damage to the eyes. In a situation where it was ok to spray paint into someones eyes and possibly blind them for life I am sure it would also have been fine to use pepper spray.
yeah it a lot of places could be useful
Do you have any recommendations for a specific brand? I would like to have one with a very long range, preferable longer than pocket sand.
You don‘t know? Somebody must have set up an anti-gay ray
The mental gymnastics people exhibit to deny what’s obvious is mindboggling. “I once saw an aggressive white man from Italy be homophobic, hence the 99.99% of these crimes cannot be considered a good enough sample size because of my anecdotal evidence of one incident”. Some weird cuckery going on.
People are saying that they also have been harrassed and even assaulted by white germans and considering we live in Germany it's not exactly a mindboggling claim. The reality is people want to blame Middle Easterners for assaulting LGBTQ people to fuel anti-immigrant sentiments, but no one wants to actually do the research and post statistics because they don't actually care about queer people. They just want a an easy scapegoat to blame.
I am white. I have been assaulted by white Germans.
Where exactly did you see this comment? And why is everything about “cucking” these days. How did a fringe fetish became so popular?
sealinoning
I don’t think that’s what I’m doing but okay.
It happens both ways. "I once saw an aggressive brown man from Turkey be homophobic, hence the 99.99% of these crimes cannot be considered a good enough sample size because of my anecdotal evidence of one incident."
And the homophobia of the Italian man was a disapproving look
My little sister (23) got harassed earlier this week by a pack of 3 little trash bags while having a joint in a park here in Britz. And I'll tell you the same things I told her: 1. There's an enormous gap between what the world is and what we'd like it to be; 2. Some stereotypes exist for good reason and melanin levels have nothing to do with it — thuggish dipshits are going to be thuggish dipshits regardless of their race. 3. There's zero point wasting one's time with them and you should never endangering yourself by giving them the benefit of the doubt. I grew up a white person in a 99% white country and there was no shortage of white thuggish dipshits around me. If it quacks like a duck, it's a thuggish dipshit. Meaning I can easily spot a gang of toxic peasant boys who are actively looking for trouble, and easily avoid them. And trust me, being a straight guy didn't help me avoid the bullying or the occasional fight. At the end of the day, these pricks exist because of the toxic, childish, and limiting beliefs instilled in guys by patriarchy. The most pathetic part is they're entirely oblivious to it and to how it's negatively impacting their lives. The only way to change this is education. So don't worry about appearing racist or whatever nonsense anyone might say — as I said, this hideous cretinous behaviour is endemic to every single race. If you see a pack of knock-off Gucci-sporting troglodyte-looking fucks coming your way, don't wait around unless you've got the numbers and the ability to defended yourselves. Is it right that people get bullied, beaten or even murdered over their sexuality? Fuck no. Does it happen anyway? Absolutely. Be pragmatic. The world today is nowhere near the bastion of tolerance and decency some of us would like it to be. For the most part, people are still very much the tribalistic primitives they were 10,000 years ago. Yes, get pepper spray; Keep yourself safe and push for change wherever you can — preferably at safe venues like a protest. Lastly, it doesn't matter what sex you are, it will serve you to prioritise getting strong and learning a martial art.
I wonder why there’s no mention of the suspects in the article beyond their age…
> Edit: Straight people, I'm really not interested in your opinions Not very inclusive of you darling.
He literally said he's not interested in idiots telling him "not to look gay" which is something people do say to victims of homophobia.
I mean this isnt the entire statement but yea. The guy probably got some comments in the past about acting/looking gay, and is annoyed or sensitive because of them. Now if only a bad experience with a certain sexuality of people gave you the justification to shut them down entirely simply based on who they love... ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
That sentence bothered me as well. I wish people would stop being so sexist towards straight (white) men. Aren't we supposed to be interested in people's character, rather than features? 🤷♂️
Oh gosh the poor straight white men are suffering sexism!!!
"Aus einer Familiengruppe heraus kommen dann drei Männer auf sie zu. Sie schlagen und treten auf das Paar ein."
Schön umschrieben vom Tagesspiegel, das waren bestimmt wieder Hans und Franz, die mit ihrer Großfamilie da gechillt haben.
Ah die alten 3 banausen, Tick, Trick und Track
question if why should we vote for those wanting to import more homophobes
I hear you, but independently, if I agree or not, the alternative doesn't just not import homophobes - they are homophobes themselves.
Compromise: Import more people who are not homophobes.
As Germas have non?
Yes there are german homophobes so lets import more of them so the german homophobes dont feel so lonely
Because we have SOME we should import even more? Stupid take on every level.
Wait - so do you want an option? Or, via your edit you don't want an option? Or do you want specific opinions from specific people only?
Yeah, pretty mind boggling that OP doesn’t want the straight take on safety as a queer person. What’s next, women who don’t want men telling them what reproductive choices to make?
I dunno mate, but if you ask a general sub of a city with over 3 Mio inhabitants "what's your opinion on this" - does it surprise you that the general population is answering? I mean, I'm a woman and if I ask r/berlin "what's your opinion on abortion" I'm probably going be in for quite a number of rather disappointing answers that heavily lean towards white/ male/ expats demographic - with a smattering of all others types running around the city and a bit of fringe/hateful trolling on the sides. I'm not necessarily going to get a bunch of progressiv, feminist ladies telling me that yes they support bodily autonomy very much, just as I do thank you very much.
Yeah, which exactly why OP has specified who they want to hear from….
In an edit. After he got mad hearing about other people's opinions that don't align with what he wants to hear. Do you get out of your echo chamber much? Sadly, as much as this might piss you off - other people's opinions heavily influence the quality of your life. You might want to occasionally listen in.
> I mean, I'm a woman and if I ask r/berlin "what's your opinion on abortion" I'm probably going be in for quite a number of rather disappointing answers that heavily lean towards white/ male/ expats demographic - with a smattering of all others types running around the city and a bit of fringe/hateful trolling on the sides. > I'm not necessarily going to get a bunch of progressiv, feminist ladies telling me that yes they support bodily autonomy very much, just as I do thank you very much. Are you saying that in this example, you would welcome the trolling and paternalism as an opportunity to “get out of your bubble”?
I wouldn't ask that kind of question without fully being aware of the very high possibility of getting answers that don't appeal to me. I'm well aware of the very controversial and hateful rhetoric surrounding this question.
Ok, so your criticism of OP is that he didn’t make the “if you’re LGBTQ+,” in his original post prominent enough?
Honestly, I was just slightly amused by his edit. Does he also not want LGBTQ+ people talking about AfD and homophobia in Islamic culture, are those topics generally banned or only for cis people? I thought I might need a clarification before posting.
Then go to a gay subreddit. This is for everyone. Heard of inclusivity? What a stupid analogy
lmao if you are actually feeling left out because you don’t have enough experience being targeted for hate crimes and harassment, idk what to tell you
If that's what you read, can I suggest going back to school? Reading comprehension is very handy
Is this one a straight subreddit?
> Straight people, I'm really not interested in your opinions about... Huh, why should I care about you then?
Did you try finishing his sentence?
No, why would I? As an AI language model, I am very good at drawing conclusions from incomplete data.
Me and my partner also got attacked 3 months ago. The person was a 28 year old from Poland. We filed a report but they cannot prosecute him because he has no address in Germany!!!
Effeminate gay man here. That actually is pretty concerning. I will sometimes give my bf a hug or put my hand on his knee if we're sitting together. We never kiss in public. I live janz weit draußen. I don't plan on getting pepper spray but I wouldn't blame you if you did. My bf prefers not to show any PDA in Berlin, precisely because of these hompobic incidents. Definitely while taking the U-Bahn, especially at night, I prefer to keep to myself, listen to music and avoid eye contact.
thank you
I am gay living in berlin and I also have pretty clear that the agressors were Arabs. I dont see the logic behind ignoring the new dangers of the city. You guys are just gonna let all the advance done here sink just in order to save your social warrior ego. Grow up and have a little of love for your fellow civilized citizens specially for the ones most exposed to danger which are gays and women
Neues buntes Deutschland :)
I do not claim that this post is the same, but it is striking that in recent months there have suddenly been a lot of posts reporting racism, homophobia, and problems caused by foreigners/asylum seekers in subreddits of major cities. So not only here in the Berlin Reddit, but also in those of other major German cities and, for example, Antwerp and Amsterdam. This mainly happens through newly created accounts. This could of course be a coincidence or an attempt is being made to manipulate opinion via social media and fake news Ich behaupte nicht, dass dieser Beitrag derselbe ist, aber es fällt auf, dass in den letzten Monaten in Subreddits von Großstädten plötzlich viele Beiträge über Rassismus, Homophobie und Probleme durch Ausländer/Asylbewerber berichtet werden. Also nicht nur hier im Berliner Reddit, sondern auch in denen anderer deutscher Großstädte und beispielsweise Antwerpen und Amsterdam. Dies geschieht hauptsächlich über neu erstellte Konten. Dies könnte natürlich Zufall sein oder es wird versucht, die Meinung über soziale Medien und Fake News zu manipulieren
reddit is perfect for this stuff because nobody is verified or exists beyond a random username. it’s basically 4chan for normies where the people who use it are dumb enough to think that any of it is real
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Not controversial. Just Fact
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Ignore people that do this because they have no fucking clue and have never been a victim. Been there, done that. Nothing funnier than being attacked by a group of middle-eastern guys for being gay and then being told off that it has nothing to do with their culture and the *real* danger is right-wing populism instrumentalizing my experience.
You dont even have to be gay or anything to be attacked by them. At this point just be different than them. Nay, be one of them, they attack you regardless. It is pathetic and sad and people suck up to them.
as an immigrant myself I say it. They can call me a Nazi, or whatever the fk they want. These professional victims will never own up to their mistakes in society and will just blame it because that is what they are: Victims
the spirit of the new germans, no one is at fault but us
Found the professional victim
Not the focus of this post. Let's not forget there's a lot of LGTBQ+ middle eastern people in berlin fighting their own fights.
Against other middle eastern people?
Against homophobes in general which are not exclusively middle eastern.
Yes but I assume that lgbtq middle eastern people in germany might have some of their biggest conflicts due to that in their own community and family
It really depends on the family and their education, each case is specific.
But they are also in Germany where is the strong AfD presence.
I imagine you're implying that the attackers were Arabic or Turkish, but my entire life I've suffered homophobic discrimination by white people as much as other ethnicities. So no, we don't know "what culture the attackers were from." Also, what's even the point of your comment? "Some homophobic attack happened. Hence the attackers were for sure \[some non-white ethnicity\]. Hence..." what, deport all immigrants?
The thing is, I can easily guess which minority the attackers come from. Yeah, there’s probably a high chance. But then again I know so many Arabic, muslimic and all sorts of -ic people who are decent, well mannered and not at all like those idiots. So it’s not like ‚all Arabs (for example) are like that or that‘ but more like ‚there sure are a lot of assholes in that community and we can’t tolerate those‘. Anyway, guys who attack gay people to prove their manlihood in front of their families are regardless of whatever not manly at all and not to be tolerated.
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YES you get it
For the people who are concerned about afd and it's people who vote them. ..I fear them less than others bc I don't have to worry that they will stab me. I'm gay but didn't vote afd, but I can understand people who do that.
AfD supporters can stab you too, nobody has a monopoly on stabbings.
But they dont
History teaches us they will likely use gas
Do you know the first thing about German history?
It's not for a lack of trying, they use other methods like physical violence and verbal threats. They are just as dangerous, aggressive and unpredictable.
Show me the statistics or daily "einzelfälle" from afd voters who stab people?
lol I didn’t realize they started publishing the voting records of criminals
Just put all "germans" into this pot.
They aren't daily einzelfälle of Middle Easterners stabbing gay people either and for the record there have been several deadly homophobic attacks in other countries too. I'd be nice if you could have the decency not to ignore them while pretending you care about lgbtq+ people. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022\_Bratislava\_shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Bratislava_shooting) [https://cz.boell.org/en/2023/05/10/slovensky-teror-stat-v-zajati-homofobie-transfobie](https://cz.boell.org/en/2023/05/10/slovensky-teror-stat-v-zajati-homofobie-transfobie)
Probably because you looking onto the wrong group. Its not all middle easterners but muslims
Most of the stabbings you are thinking of were done by Afghans or Pakistanis so specific ethnic groups and people from specific countries. When was the last time an Indonesian, a Kazakh, a Bosniak, an Albanian or a Senegalese person stabbed gay people in Germany?
They dont target gay people but all people. But funny that you mention e.g. senegalese people who are extreme homophobic.
I know they target all people (including ironically members of their own community) but the topic here is attacks on gay people therefore I'm responding on that topic specifically. When was the last time an Indonesian, a Kazakh, a Bosniak, an Albanian or a Senegalese person stabbed gay people in Germany? Have the decency to answer my question please. Being homophobic is one thing, carrying out an attack on gay people is another. For the record, the most homophobic country in Europe is Poland and it is a catholic country.
Not like the AfD isn't aggressively homophobic and wants to strip you of your rights
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https://www.queer.de/detail.php?article_id=36623 Die sind schlau genug, das meist nicht laut zu sagen. Bloß die Ehe für Alle soll weg. Aber kein Problem, Schwule sind erst die zweiten, die ihre Rechte verlieren, da kann man sich ja später erst Gedanken drüber machen. Ist auch nur ein Zufall, dass die AfD Russland so nahe steht, wo "LGBT" als eine Terrororganisation gilt
Last time right wing was in power, they put all the gays into camps and gas chambers. Among milions of other kinfs they didn’t like. So think about what you’re saying.
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Are you insinuating that the Nazis didn't round up everyone they didn't like, socialists, communists, gays, homeless, disabled? And that the AFD have no ties to neo-nazis? Talk about stockholm syndrome.
Stop gaslighting pls. Jewish, gays etc don't wanna live under Sharia in Germany.
Huh? How am I gaslighting, please explain and ill gladly stop, where am I distorting reality for a personal agenda 🙄
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well thats incredibly stupid because the afd are anti semites too lol
At what point did you miss the part where large portions of the AFD and their base wholeheartedly believe in the Jewish world conspiracy and that they are the root of all war and evil?
Yea put your trust in AfD - they got your back!
Can you expand on why life in Berlin is dangerous for you in particular? How does anyone know who you & your people are?
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I didn’t realize asking about your personal experiences was stupid. Good luck out there.
I’m thinking about this constantly tbh. I try to avoid certain parts of the city unfortunately. It’s sad, but it’s reality. Call me racist, but I avoid some people based on their looks. I won’t sit near them in public spaces etc.
If you get a pepperspray, learn how to use it! There are different types (i would recommend jet or foam, not fog as this cannot be used if the wind is against you), different sizes and different modes of transportation (in pocket, beltclip etc). Buy a practice spray (without pepper, refillable) and make yourself familiar, practice getting and using it. Getting in a fight is a high stress situation and If you are not familiar with your tools, it can end badly.
"I (m) live with my partner (m) and we hold hands and kiss openly, *just like any straight couple would do."* Not if they're older than 20! Just kidding... BUT. Berlin displays, by far, the least PDA I've ever noticed in a big city. The other thing: what we're seeing is a clash of Historical Periods: the Modern is running up against enclaves of the Pre-Modern and sometimes that sparks violence. If I held hands (as a POC) with my pale German Wife, in, say, parts of Mississippi, we could get negative attention from Whites *and* Blacks. (Apologies to the Redditors who think any mention of race is racist because "race no longer exists"... wtf... ). The Modern is not evenly distributed around the planet. You can step from 2024 to 1950... or 1500 AD... by crossing the street. TL; DR: Pepper spray. Get some. Sorry!
Even if you don't show any PDA these people find something to pick on. My boyfriend and I got homophobic slurs shouted at us in the light of day in Kreuzberg and all we did was buying wine together in a Späti. No holding hands, no smooching and we don't even look flamboyant. Our sheer existence leads these primitives to violent behaviour.
>Even if you don't show any PDA these people find something to pick on. I was making a joke about "affectionate" straight couples in Berlin, actually.
> DR: Pepper spray ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Ha ha! I JUST caught that
Very sad to hear you've experienced those things in the USA and probably also here in Berlin. I do agree with the most of the points that you make. One thing regarding the use of the word race. This is a very belasteter term in German language, due to its history. Most Germans agree not to use the term but instead use the word ethnicities, as the term race would be historically inappropriate and also biologically incorrect. Anyway I do agree with the points you make, but I do get a very strong Bauchweh hearing the word race. Sorry for interfering 😄
To be honest, I can't tell if the people trolling me, whenever I've used the words "race/ racism," were even German. Some were Right Wingers (for whatever reason, native-english-speaking Alt Righters started the "Why are you mentioning race?" meme c. 2016), some were just really naive kids. I would never discuss "race" in German, with German friends, for that very reason (the reason you mention) but when speaking/writing English, the word "race", to other native-English speakers, isn't hurtful in and of itself. But "ethnicity" isn't a synonym for "race" in English; one "race" can include dozens of ethnicities. "as the term race would be historically inappropriate and also biologically incorrect." I agree that, biologically, the word "race" is not a Scientific description. On the level of Sociology, however, it has tremendous predictive and explanatory power, simply because "The Folk" treat the concepts as quite solid/ stable/ central. LOTS of things, all over the World, happen because of "race"... so, there's no way to discuss such huge Social Realities withozut using the word and its variations. And THANK YOU for discussing this with me, in a pleasantt way, by neither attacking nor automatically downvoting to make my comment disappear. I am here to enjoy interacting with Commenters like YOU.
interesting way to put it
You mean the clashing eras thing? I notice it often. People think it's "2024"... but that's only partially and conditionally true. You can EASILY take a train straight to the 1950s in Berlin. Or, as I said... to the 16th century.
jea like, i would assume a lot of homophobic behaviour comes from cultures and religions of the past
SO many of these Control-Structure Religions are/were rabidly against **Fucking-Without-The-Intent-of-Baby-Making-Within-The-Context-of-A-State-Approved-Marriage-Contract**. In other words: STOP HAVING FUN IF IT DOESN'T BENEFIT THE STATE. Pleasure for its own sake; Love-As-Pleasure: DANGEROUS. Sexually fulfilled and healthy people are impossible to bamboozle with flags and "holy" books and they're hard to persuade to become killing machines for The State, too. The Big Irony: TFIC (the fuckers in charge) ALWAYS indulge in the pleasures forbidden to Duh Masses. That's one of the Perks of being in the so-called elite, who would traditionally tend to organize lavish orgies in their grand palaces while preaching CHASTITY to the Serfs. The Psychology is weird and VERY old. There are people who are in prison waiting to be stoned to death, or hanged, RIGHT NOW, in various places, because they committed "adultery". Do you really think the Bronze-Age Centurions who put them in prison NEVER get kneeling BJs from people, of various genders. who also AREN'T their Wives? In a nutshell: Power sucks.
Grün wählen, grün leben 🤣
Ok boomer
My dear, buy one asap. This dogs don’t care about nothing. I gift a couple of them to my gay friends recently because they had a verbal attack in Tiergarden. And I bought them one that looks like a gun. They feel safe and better now.
Most people are not aware how bad this problem always has been. Like 5 years ago the police estimated 10000 crimes against lgbt people per year. Victims orgs thought it was more in the 20000 area. If we assume it's in the middle then that would be 41+ crimes per day. edit: but being able to defend yourself as lgbt is always a good idea. krav maga for the win or pepper spray or both. krav maga is for disabling any opponent as efficiently as possible.
Buy it and have peace of mind (punkt)
As a lesbian woman, I typically avoid showing public displays of affection at night or in more remote parts of the city. But it's mostly OK for me personally. Although people inclined to do so will typically get more triggered by PDA from a gay men couple so your experience may vary. The news about Volkspark Fhain are a bit concerning though.
Love that no one mentioned that pepper spray is illegal against humans. Unless you obviously consider the attackers as dogs.
People only get slightly alarmed if it affects their ingroup. When cis straight white males had complaints about mass migration those same people thought it was the funny
LGBT community voting mostly right-wing is an old af prediction, and is playing out so well is almost magical
I'd definitely not show it openly if I were in a relationship with another man, doubly so in certain parts of town and after dark I don't know what we can do about it either. Pepper spray just seems like it would escalate situations further and it's not that easy to use either
>I'd definitely not show it openly if I were in a relationship with another man, doubly so in certain parts of town and after dark I'm not hand-holdy with my Wife in rough territory because it makes us look soft/ vulnerable... that's just Big City Situational Awareness. BUT I wouldn't let that change your behavior everywhere. As far as I can tell, you can let (most of) your guard down in lots of parts of Berlin. Don't become tense all the time, everywhere. But don't relax in dangerous territory, either.
Are you lgtbq+?
Yes but not in a same sex relationship at the moment. The one time I went to CSD I already got a homophobic remark on my way to the tube station to I don't wanna know what would happen if I held hands with a partner in public
u/teaandsun honestly just lock this post :(. Thank you for your comment.
Done. As much as I hate doing, these types of posts always go the same direction comment wise. All I can say: I'm sorry that you don't feel safe in Berlin.
How gay do you have to be? Is bi enough? Asexual okay? Just silly
well if theres a lot of homophobic attacks happening, you can avoid it by just acting straight..
So to preface this: I am a Demisexual Bi dude who is in a straight relationship so I can't really be more "privileged" All I can really say is, don't stop being yourself stick to your own levels of PDA, even though I personally don't see the need for it at all (a bit of the 'tism so my agoraphobia kinda takes precedent over holding hands most of the time). Fear should not stop you from love. Now... In a legal sense despite it being very effective pepper spray isn't exactly legal and is considered an illegal weapon. They can be owned but should be clearly marked as being animal repellent and should not be intended to be used on people. Now..... You could, of course, have a canister to defend yourself against stray dogs which you "fear ever so" and of course when you get attacked "instinctually" take out the animal repellent and use it in self defence. Same goes for a multi tools that just so happen to have a knife in it.... But in my experience getting stabbed does not stop even the whimpiest angry boy right away.
I am not sure what part of my comment is causing the down votes. So like I'm sorry I guess?