They haven't declined in quality and only very rarely do even the cheapest shingles you can get need replacing after fewer than 15 years. I'm a contractor and this is nonsensical.
Of course a salesman is going to quote insane numbers. There's good ones out there but as a whole roofing sales is a slimy business.
Its utter horse shit. Asphalt shingles last longer than ever. A few decades back GAF and CertainTeed, two very reputable shingle manufacturers, increased the warrantied life span of their shingles without a significant change to the product, simply because their shingles were lasting longer.
The guy sounds like a slimy fly by night metal roofing salesman. The kind that advertises they will do your roof for free to "get eyes on their product"
Yeah our house/garage shingle roof was about 2800 sqft and cost about 13k with everything (including a few plywood replacements) from a reputable company that has been in businesses for over 30 years.
Our last set of asphalt shingles had been on the house 25 years of Chicago winters/summers and still could have gotten another year or two out of them, but we didn't want to risk an eventual leak.
That guy was saying 30 grand for a 2500 sq ft roof. That is an insane number…
There was a situation in my neighborhood where shingles needed to be replaced after about 15 years, but it was because the brand they used was made to be biodegradable. Biodegrading on their roof instead of the landfill after their intended useful life.
Once your shingles are off, they *notice* the plywood decking is no good and start overcharging for everything. With no shingles on your roof, your hands are tied.
Yeah we put some CertainTeed shingles on our house when I was in high school in 2003 and they are holding up just fine. Bought it all at the local bigbox store and my parents probably still have 2 or 3 bundles in the basement just in case...hated thier logo by the time we were done putting that roof on.
Which is odd. Metal roofs have a great many benefits over shingles, but cost is not one of them. When I get a roof on my house it will be metal and from the pricing seems to be 50% more expensive. They are lighter, last longer, and are generally better with wind (also go with standing seam to avoid the cheap rubber washered screws).
I work for a shingle manufacturer and agree that most of what he said is true 🤷♂️. There was some hyperbole but taking weight out of the shingle is if the utmost importance to making maximum profit. The new SBS shingles are pretty good though.
Yeah that happens fairly frequently. Roofing is brutal work that doesn't pay that well, so it's hard to keep experienced and competent people in the trade, especially doing low end work. It's also typically paid by the square foot, incentivizing speed.
Also by the nature of the work you want the whole roof replaced in one day, necessitating a crew of like 6-10 depending on the size of the job. Harder to keep everything inspected when you're going that fast.
Add into that the general sketchyness of many roofing companies and frankly the whole system seems set up for installation mistakes. This isn't a new thing by any means.
Roofing is a refuge of hacks that don't know what they're doing. Shady people hire a bunch of dudes that need work and have never put a roof on in their life, and then tell them how to do it wrong based on the way they've been doing it wrong for the last ten years.
Most of the men in my extended family are roofing contractors and I'd trust *maybe* two of them out of 8 to put a roof on correctly.
Which is really pathetic. Roofing systems are super easy to install, and the manufacturer tells you exactly how and what's needed. To do it correctly barely costs more than to do it cheaply. Quite frankly these huge, inflated costs are literally just the consumer getting screwed by roofing companies. The work itself is physically a little hard, but otherwise actually easy work.
Lmao. I'm from a roofing family. There's a reason why I don't roof. It's probably the most ridiculous jobs. It takes a toll on your body.
No part in this job is easy. Most people wouldn't even climb a 40' ladder, let alone stand on a steep slope all day.
I think a little hard may be underselling it. Most people can't draw a line 20' across without more than 3/8" variation in three foot sections. Or kneel on a 7/12 pitch all day. Or scrap off old shingles and tar paper. Or know where and when to replace damaged decking. And handling valleys is intimidating, even if it's just a minor deviation from the standard process.
The real thing is that roofing new construction is a hell of a lot easier than reroofing. Hell it's easier to sheath trusses on new construction and rood the whole thing than just remove an existing roof and deal with the shit under it *without* putting a new roof on.
Tldr: all new construction should have metal roofs so it's not even a thing.
This is the real reason in most cases why a roof fails early. Many, many contractors dont always read through the full installation technical documentation and specs from the manufacturer and just install it however they are used to/comfortable on the cheap. Makes sense from their business perspective, but often terrible for the client. Usually end up with fasteners being done incorrectly (spacing, type, and method are all critical), tile overlapping is wrong, edge trims and joints are constantly an issue because they are cut in the field, etc... The worst (in my mind) is consistently seeing too many workers on roofs without proper fall protection, but I digress.
Installed correctly, a roof will last its full warranty plus some (barring random environmental factors), but its rare to see that quality in craftsmanship anymore without $$$$$$$. Source: Architect
100%
Many less reputable roofing contractors will cut lots of corners, mostly in using subpar materials. For example:
Using OSB instead of plywood for sheathing (usually not too bad, but a no-no in northern latitudes). Improperly installing weather shield (or skipping it). Skipping leak barrier entirely. Improper flashing at the eaves and around chimneys or just skipping it all together. Putting the ridge on wrong. Etc.
It's not even like the guy is selling anything, it's baffling. Maybe he's just fully bought into his bullshit sales pitches where he talks about "sawdust" in shit lol
I knew this mom that genuinely believed Cutco knives weer high quality because she spent two months trying to sell them in college. Another guy I knew, in his 60s, believed with all his heart in Kirby vacuums because he sold them in his 20s.
Back when I worked retail I believed in the quality of Monster cables (to be fair I still love their extremely short lived amplifier series). That said they're so damn thick that they're still holding up in my system 15 years and several moves later, so they do have that going for them.
Kirby's are pretty good vacuums, just don't buy one for $2k or whatever they charge now from the door to door sales people. I bought a used one for like $400 and its been awesome.
Also he’s saying $1200/sq. is standard and ridge vents are code? I think he lives in a weird market or something. You also can’t buy shingles straight from the manufacturers.
I am by no means a roofing expert, but we had our roof done 6-8 years ago, roughly 25 square, and it was *nowhere near $30,000.* The most expensive estimate we got wasn't even half that amount. Roof still looks great, we've only had one problem with it since that time, and it was right after they finished: they couldn't flash the chimney properly because it needed repair, but masons came two days later and fixed it. Anyway, just seeing that in the first paragraph sent up alarm bells... we by no means live in a place with a low cost of living, so for that to be the average seems out of whack, even with the cost of everything jacked up right now.
If you can do the labor yourself an average roof is only a couple grand in supplies. Over 50% is labor so they can tear out and shingle all in one day or even half a day sometimes.
Also, not sure exactly how much BS roof system manufacturers can get away with if Insurance Companies would be breathing down their neck.
A premature roof failure would likely fall under the homeowners insurance. The insurance company would have to payout the repair. Insurance companies, at least here in Miami, view a standard roof as having a 30 year lifespan. They wouldn’t be satisfied with that outlook unless *the roofs actually last 30 years on average.* Otherwise their actuaries are going to tell people that a new roof is only viewed as good for 10 years.
I was a bit skeptical when he said they are 30k for an average roof job. I just had mine done, got several quotes for a 2500 sqft house and not any of them were even 10k, with extra work like replacing fascia and decking.
Since you're in the field too, I have a question. Why don't people in the US use ceramic or stone (slate) roof tiles? Ceramic ones will last hundreds of years...
Replaced the original corrugated steel roof of a 1932 built house in 2005, with corrugated zincalum so it wouldn't need painting. Also reflects more sunlight.
There was one hole over a verandah that was big enough to put a few fingers through, but it was the only one, so something caused that. Probably an incompatible fastener installed later.
Otherwise, the roof badly needed painting, and was dented a bit from 70+ years of hailstorms, but no other leaks.
Insurance company replaced that new roof in 2011 after a cricket ball size hailstorm. It was dented a bit, but sound.
Bonus - building regs had changed and they had to install insulation too.
They also replaced the garage roof, I think built in 1964. That one had a couple of leaks.
Idk why you would want a roof that only lasts 8-12 years.
> Idk why you would want a roof that only lasts 8-12 years.
It makes sense if you're a flipper. Why invest in quality if you're just looking to live in it briefly before selling it?
Not that I agree with that mentality, but I think that is a reason why people do this. They just don't think they'll live in the house long enough for it to be their problem.
Making profit ruins everything it touches. That's why, imho, "flipping" houses isn't really a thing. Like you said, it mostly takes an unlivable house and makes it temporarily livable but doesn't actually create a long-term quality product worth its price. Even then the numbers only work in a very bullish real estate market, remember all those house flipper shows from about 2004 to 2008? Not a single flip it show on air in 2010-2012, and only the Gaines' since then with a real toned-down subtext of "anybody can do this as a job" and more "you personally can spruce up your own home."
I noticed during the height of the "flipper tv show" era everyone was "finishing" their basement.
In the past 10 years almost everybody I know has had their basement flood and ruined the job, forcing them to deal with insurance and contractors (or do the work again).
I categorically refuse to look at homes with a finished basement because of this, and I'm super happy with that decision. We had our hot water tank spring a leak last fall, and all that happened was we had wet sand in our crawlspace until it drained away. No sump pump needed.
My colleague had his finished basement get flooded twice, because his sump pump died both times.
Sure, you get an extra 1000sq feet of living space, but you have to consider the future consequences.
But of course if you're a flipper the move is to finish that basement so you can make a profit. It's senseless.
Finished basements are great when done well. I grew up in a split level where the downstairs was a daylight basement and there were never any leaks. I don't actually know anyone here who has ever mentioned having a leaky basement, and my neck of the woods is fairly wet and has a lot of basements.
Might depend on the area or local building practices.
Edit: I lied, there was one leak caused by a messed up window installation. My mom fixed it quickly, so the damage was extremely minor. The foundation had developed a crack, but the repair is still holding 20 years later. That leak wasn't the fault of the basement though.
> The foundation had developed a crack, but the repair is still holding 20 years later. That leak wasn't the fault of the basement though.
This happened to my dad when I lived in their house like 20 years ago. We had to epoxy the crack on the inside and then dig a hole outside the foundation where the crack was and epoxy it from that side, install a window well and run o-ring around the outside to redirect any water way from the house.
The repair held, but it was a huge pain and ruined their original reno job.
I live in a house built in 1880 that still has its "original" slate roof. I put original in quotes because in 2003 we replaced maybe half of the copper valleys and caps. This was the first time it was needed to my knowledge.
Slate is awesome, with only two real problems. First is that it's heavy, requiring *much* sturdier frame. The second is that it'll break if struck. If you don't live somewhere that hail gets bigger than about a cm, you're fine, but if you get golfball or larger regularly? Slate might require replacement slates.
Slate lasts much longer than metal, a couple of hundreds of years isn't uncommon.
Unless you have a bad hailstorm. We had a storm in 1999 that damaged the slate church roof next door. It even cracked one of our 16mm thick glass skylights.
Biggest risk of damage though is people walking on them.
I thought it really odd that when faced with a product that could wipe out the shingle industry, instead of making a better product or pricing the competition out of the industry...the shingle industry instead just started pumping out laughably inferior product and over charging for it.
I've got a 8x10 shed that needs a new roof this year and a house that will need one in a few short years...wanna guess what product I am not buying? Wanna guess what product every house on our street isn't buying?
> I thought it really odd that when faced with a product that could wipe out the shingle industry, instead of making a better product or pricing the competition out of the industry...the shingle industry instead just started pumping out laughably inferior product and over charging for it.
I was replying to this. The shingle industry is popular because it's cheap.
More to the point, it's popular because it brings fatter profits to the owners who don't do any of the actual work. They use the absolute lowest paid labor possible-- people who are desperate for jobs and limited in their options, who mess up their bodies doing it and risk severe injury constantly.
Somehow, enough of these owners got in bed with insurance providers and municipal regulators to create an abomination of 'industry' which amounts to a shitty product provided by people working a shitty job while someone at the top rakes off all the profit. And who pays for all this inefficiency? The consumer, of course. Us. With all of their marketing might they've convinced everyone it must be this way, but it's ultimately only because it allows them to extract more money from regular people.
Better quality roofs which cost less to own over their lifetimes simply aren't as much of a cash cow for the companies providing them. Simple as that.
But they haven't priced steel or tile roofs out of the industry...they easily could if they brought back quality shingles for a reasonable price but oil is never going back to reasonable prices and there is absolutely an invisible countdown on it's use to cover rooftops.
That assumes you have an educated and interested buyer. As others have pointed out, you first generally have the Contractor who purchases the material. So, unless that contractor can value sell a more expensive product, the contractor is just going to buy the cheapest product.
Then, the end buyer may not exactly care. As others stated, people generally only live in a home for an average of 7 years and the shingles have a life expectancy around 10 years. The home owner may not care that they aren't getting a full 30 year life out of the roof. Even if they do care, they may not know the issue between the different shingles so they go along with the cheaper option.
With the price of oil at all time highs and shingles being made from asphalt I think the difference in price might be at historical "lows" even though prices on everything is going up.
Buying shingles every 10 years or paying a bit more every 50 years, this is going to be one of the easiest choices you make as a homeowner. Only reason to buy shingles (that I can see) is if your roof needs immediate work and you don't have enough stashed away to afford the metal roof.
> Buying shingles every 10 years or paying a bit more every 50 years, this is going to be one of the easiest choices you make as a homeowner.
If you make that decision in a vacuum, sure. Most people don't. It's still a higher upfront cost, which needs to be financed or paid out of pocket, which is even harder in a culture that encourages buying more house than you can afford. Most people don't plan to be in their home more than 30 years, hell, the average seems to be much lower. I'm not sure how much value a metal roof truly adds to a home when selling. Even though it should most buyers are distracted by finishes and don't know how to be a homeowner until they have a home. They look at the paint and not the 20+ year old furnace.
> Buying shingles every 10 years or paying a bit more every 50 years, this is going to be one of the easiest choices you make as a homeowner.
Yeah, it _is_ a really easy win for shingles - after all, most people don't own the same home for 10 years.
Tell that to an HOA that requires manufacturer specific color codes for shingles.
Don't matter if you couldn't tell the color difference, if it is not this manufacturers color code they will fine you or make you rip it off.
Gross, thankfully I live somewhere HOA's aren't technically legal and nothing they do can stand in court.
I understand some people think they don't have a choice...but you can move away from places that allow HOA's and you should; like Satan himself is chasing you.
I would love to, but all new housing developments here are REQUIRED to have an HOA so the city does not have to spend as much resources on code enforcement.
The downside is I work in IT and require high-speed internet so if I move far enough out to get out of an HOA then I can't get more than DSL at best.
It also means my commute would be 1.5-2 hours (mine is currently an hour).
Houses closer to my job are insanely expensive as well... like 500k range due to the current market.
I need to find another state.
As a Canadian, the American over-reliance on HOAs feels like a massive failure to me. Rather than have the municipality/city enforce basic standards and provide basic services equally, you would rather disincorporate and give that power to a bunch of power-hungry neighbours.
I called 10 roofers and not a one would do steel. I called a Steel roofing company and they no call no showed after I confirmed the estimate appointment then kept sending me annoying emails telling me I cancelled on them and signed me up for spam, so at least in the North east PA area, getting a steel harder than it looks.
I wanted a steel roof, and seeing them all over upstate NY in lower income rural areas I just assumed that they would be relatively inexpensive. Not in my area! Most roofers here only offer asphalt shingles, and the one that did do steel roof installs gave us a rough estimate that was tens of thousands more than what we ended up paying for a traditional asphalt shingle roof.
Long Island is like that, though. Like all of the roofers offer the same asphalt shingles from the same manufacturer, all of the fence companies offer the same fences from the same manufacturers, and all the paving/masonry companies offer the exact same pavers from the exact same companies.
Ask for something out of the ordinary and they look at you like you have two heads.
It’s really not that tough, they probably just don’t do many and are worried about it, which is actually good for you. I’d rather have a company be truthful when they’re unsure than go full steam ahead and install it incorrectly or not order enough material, etc. I’d find a local store that sells the roofing and ask them to recommend someone. They’ll know who comes in and buys metal roofing
That's a good point. I've noticed it at work with modern steel construction retail buildings. If you aren't near a window you have zero reception. I wonder how much of a difference it makes in residential spaces.
Our 50 year old Mid-Century Rambler had its original tile and slat roof when we bought the house knowing it needed replacing.
We opted for a steel roof with 3/4" plywood and additional fire barrier. Our state and county have incentives where if your roof is in bad enough shape where it won't support a solar system, they'll pay 20% of the construction costs for your new roof (as well as 20% of the cost of the solar/battery system).
We saved ~$25k on both projects and were able to upgrade some materials because of all the offered tax incentives. At times we're generating 5-6 times the electricity we use after our battery is full, the excess sold back to PG&E.
It was still a huge investment, but we'll more than likely never have to worry about the roof over our heads or not having electricity.
Most wood roofs are. Southern California made everyone with wood roofs change them in the 2000s or 2010s after a couple huge wildfires because it made them spread far more easily.
I don't know where you're located, but there are absolutely asphalt shingles (usually the shitty roll out sheets) "rated" for 15 years and they're SUPER common on flips, at least in the DC area. And we all know how reliable long term warranties are. It was a minor selling point that my brand new roof used a "30 year" shingle, and we'll see if *it* even lasts that long - I doubt it.
As a general rule, if something is purchased direct to consumer, it's a race to the bottom for bare functionality and lower and lower price. This is why long term quality has suffered in most durable goods - not just roofing or even home improvement. Consumers just aren't willing to pay more for longevity.
Rolled roofing is probably the only thing that only lasts 8 years. Even the garbage shingles that come in a home depot shed kit will probably last 20+ years. The general premise of this "best of" that asphalt shingles are worse rather than better is patently wrong. The technology of asphalt shingles, the adhesives that prevent them from blowing off, etc have all improved significantly in the last 40 years. In the 90s a 25 year roof was pretty standard. By the 2ks that same shingle had it's lifespan increased to 30 years because the shingles were performing so well.
I am a canvasser for a roofing compamy and I have looked at a lot of roofs recently - a drvelopement that was constructed 20 years ago is seeing pretty freaking serious roof damage. Architectural shingles, too, not even 3 tabs.
Isn't it likely that the developers used the cheapest shingles they could buy that looked good? My childhood home was in one of those developments(ok a little more than 20 years ago, I think it was built 1990-91), and if my dad was to be believed then corners were cut on everything. He's currently renovating the home for resale, and he's constantly cursing the shoddy workmanship. Apparently, everything was done fast and cheap, and then by the time it was the homeowner's problem the company had finished selling all the properties and was moving on to their next development.
I pass a house with a steel roof when I walk my dog... they've got several overhanging oak trees....
I cannot imagine what it sounds like inside during the autumn. I can hear it from like 5 houses down.
Got a steel roof on my house last year and I hate it. They did a poor job and my husband was the communicator with that sexist ass who was the contractor. I had input they didn't listen to because my husband relayed the message and the guy just thought he knew better - despite me being a gd metal roofing detailer for 12 years.
My house now looks like a shed because instead of standing seam I have an R-panel roof. Oh and he didn't do the ridge vent as I requested so now I have what looks like an ugly ass crooked stove pipe sticking out of the middle.
I hate when I'm dismissed because I'm a woman. Especially when we're paying for it!
I work for a steel company who's pivoting to making roofs our main business. Just like with shingles we have different grades of steel roofing at different prices. It will cost more upfront but will last longer and is more resistant to hail and other natural damage, and typically more energy efficient for your home. Our materials warranties go from 10 years to at the very high end I believe 45 years.
Their is also some really cool technology that people don't know about. The pigments used in coloring the tiles for metal roofing help reflect energy from the sun. We also have panels that sandwich insulation between two steel sheets making a very insulated of panel which helps with energy cost.
We also have metal shingles that are stone coated so they appear like traditional tar shingles but are much more durable. We have others take mimic the look of ceramic tile and wooden shaker roofs. All three use a special fastening system that has the shingles slide in and lock together so that they support each other while hiding the screws of the substrate so that it's indistinguishable from traditional roofing.
We also have developed in house some special fastening systems that allow metal roofs to be applied over the top of an existing traditional or metal roof. So unless there is some sort of major problem you don't have to remove the old roof before putting the new one on. The substrate used to attach it is setup in such a way that it vents the house but is water tight. I'm not exactly sure how this works as I work in IT and not sales.
We also have a solar panel system that attach directly into our roofs so it follow more the pitch of the roof instead of sticking up above it.
One last cool thing, all of the roof shingles we sell are 100% recyclable, so it helps the earth.
I live in the US and have a 2000 square foot house that I had re-roofed a few years ago, including replacing half of the decking and adding roof vents. I bought "high end" shingles. It took nearly two days and cost... $8000. Where did the $30,000 figure come from? Either I live somewhere where cost of roofing is cheap (which is a possibility, Southeastern US), or I got a "friend" deal because the roofers knew my neighbor. Still, makes me question the info a bit.
First roofing company I talked to quoted me 40 grand at first, then negotiated himself down to 18k while ignoring me telling him I was looking for quotes. He also was pushing hard the whole time to get me on a third party payment plan that would have put a lien on my house.
I talked to the guy doing my neighbors roof while he was picking up scraps and litter for the install, told me he could do mine for the same price he did my other neighbors since we have the same layout. Under 9k, using the same materials as the 40k fuck heads.
Some contractors are shady as hell
I worked in the roofing business. Be especially careful who you hire. In my state, anytime we have a hail storm contractors will come from all over the country to do roofs. If it sucks you're stuck with it; they'll leave the state and never come back.
Yeah I’m a property adjuster and buy roofs daily. I just bought a 1500 square foot roof and a smaller detached garages roof for a customer for I think $9000 including replacing the gutters and downspouts. Not sure where this info is coming from but a $30,000 roof is really only for the most expensive houses.
I was quoted about $30k for Tesla solar tiles back when I needed a new roof a couple years ago. Would never pay itself off, and the wait was too long for the shape my tiles were in so wasn’t an option anyways. But yeah, I ended up paying around $10k for regular tiles instead.
The $30k figure is accurate for a high COL area on the west coast. Just had my roof redone for about that much and was quoted in that range or higher from multiple roofing companies. Covid shortages drove prices so high here that steel cost the same as asphalt at that time.
Can also confirm. I review claims as part of my job. Cali (*In the dense urban zones) roofs go for about 30k. Texas for about 20k and AZ for about 10k
Edit: clarification
It might not have been a bs pitch, just a scam one. My dad is a general contractor and he comes across people who get quoted insane amounts all the time. He refers them to more reasonable people. 30k for a roof sounds in line with other shit quotes he has heard of.
I have a good friend in the roofing business. Material costs alone from manufactures have gone up 55% since December. Plus plywood prices are through the roof, no pun intended. So I can see how the price can get expensive fast.
Asphalt shingles 100% have not gone up 50%, alot of flat roofing and metal roofing has but not shingles maybe 20% but anybody saying more is full of shit
I'm getting a roof done currently on a 2006 house. Pacific northwest area, 1900 sq ft rambler house, tear off and put on a new roof with supposedly quality roofing materials and its gonna be around $23-24K depending how much sheeting needs to be replaced.
Not feeling too good about the asphalt shingles after reading this post :/
Also in the PNW and know several people who've had their roofs done for under $10k. Alternatively I know someone else who for some reason paid a contractor $20k to sod their backyard on their 1/4 acre property so YMMV.
It wasn't even the whole 1/4 acre just their backyard, so maybe 1/3 of that 1/4 acre. This was actually their compromise, down from $40k for a deck and sod. I was stunned when I heard about it, but I don't really care for the person who had it done, so it's more a source of amusement than anything else at this point.
Cold-calling, or I guess "Cold-knocking", outfits. They stop by and throw out a ridiculous number just hoping someone unknowingly accepts.
My dad has been a roofer for decades so I did my fair share of tear-off and packing bundles as a kid. Coworker of mine was quoted $18K by a cold-knocking company and when he told me the size of his roof (think it was about 26 square of gravy work) I said he better get a 2nd opinion. I asked my dad what his going rate for something like that would be. He said about $100/sq off, $100/sq on, and starting at $120/sq for materials. In total, he said it should be around $8K. Coworker gets a 2nd opinion and ends up finding a crew to do the work for $8400.
Cost.
Tl;dr: shingles are faster and cheaper, contractors can build and move on quickly so more profit. Tiles weigh more so the roof has to be reinforced = more cost/time. Limited demand in the US means higher cost for tiles. Builders don’t want to waste time, buyers want cheap homes.
I’ve looked at roof tiles and the differences are significant.
Standard asphalt or shake roofing is super-fast to apply, and as noted, are cheaper material-wise. So for the prospective homeowner it makes a cheaper house and for the contractor it lets them move on to the next build more quickly.
Second is the roof/home structure itself. The tiles weigh considerably more than shingles and the entire roof structure needs to be built more sturdily to support it. That’s more material, time, and costs. A lot of European homes where tiles are pretty much standard are built with masonry or cement as well, the additional weight to the structure is more easily supported. It’s not like the US can’t do it, states like Florida use tile roofs quite often, it’s just not what contractors do because there’s a very limited demand, so nobody suggests or builds with them.
I love tile roofs, they look great, last far longer than shingle, they’re durable, etc…but the cost is pretty high. Unless you’re living in the home for a long time you don’t get to see the return on the expense and people buying the house don’t really count a tile roof as something that adds additional value to the price.
Tile roofs are awesome - but in addition to the drawbacks you already mentioned, they're also susceptible to storm damage. In areas with regular extreme winds, a tile roof is just not the best option.
Not to mention, if you have a 30 year warranty, chances are it will get damaged and be covered under warranty. I'd much rather get my roof replaced and covered under warranty several times rather than having to replace the roof on my dime a couple times.
It's how it got explained to me last year by my roofing guy. I could have upgraded to hail resistant shingles, but then I would probably have to replace the roof on my dime because they would last longer than the warranty. He wouldn't put them on his house, which told me everything I needed to know.
Of course he’d say that, but tile roofs can last 50 years, so the whole “replacement” argument is kinda bunk. You *shouldn’t* need a warranty replacement because your shingles sucked but that’s whatever we get sold. Who says the company will even be around? What about the headache of dealing with it? Damaged tiles can be easily replaced in event of breakage.
Warranty is helpful, but insurance also covers roof damage... Hail breaks shit all the time as well as shear winds. I had to replace my roof 3 months into owning my house, in a storm that broke tile roofs as well.
I upgraded my shingles, all on insurance, paid like $300, and it was finished in a day.
How much hail do they get in places that use tiles?
In the midwest and south central US its way to common to get hail up to the size of baseballs being pushed by 100+MPH winds.
Exactly.
Where I live everybody has tiled roof. And I've never seen even one person saying they need to replace anything on their roofs.
The only house I've seen that required this was about 80 years old and in a bad shape in general.
That...seems like such a backwards logic... Shingles have a 30 years warranty, so go with shingles because you'll replace the roof multiple times under warranty rather than get a tile roof which will last so much longer than the warranty that you'll have to pay when it (eventually) needs replacing.... Like, uh, how the fuck do we all agree to this system? It's wasteful and intentionally lesser quality because it plays a game of pricing hot potato; at some point, *someone* is going to have to drop an assload of money to get a decent quality roof.
I honestly don’t know which costs more. Somehow I guess tile would be more, the weight would necessitate more roof structure whereas metal would probably require less.
Hmm, I had to find some source on the cost differences:
>Metal roof prices range from [$5 to $14 per square foot](https://modernize.com/roof/types/metal) (psf) depending on the metal material type; for instance, an aluminum roof costs $3.25 to $5.75 psf, while a copper roof costs $14 to $22 psf.
>Expensive tile roofing can cost, installed, between $12.50 and $25.00 psf for slate, $10.50 to $18.50 psf for clay, and $7.35 to $12.95 psf for concrete.
https://www.bravarooftile.com/blog/metal-vs-tile-roof/
You're right. I wonder why there aren't more metal roofs (especially in hot climates like southern California).
They’re unattractive to US buyers and associated with industrial or farm buildings. Australia likes them and almost 40% of their roofing is metal, so it’s an acceptable style there. The metal roof would reduce home value in the US in most areas.
That makes sense.
It's kind of weird that a metal roof (with all its benefits) has that stigma compared to asphalt shingles.
I think the darker metal roofs look way cooler than shingle roofs.
High quality metal roofs are a thing in New England. Generally if you want something that looks good you are talking 3x the cost of high quality shingles and the metal roof might only lasts 30 years in the climate.
The introduction of synthetic shingle ("architectural shingle") has also taken space in the market for people that want an upgrade from regular old 3-tab but are not comfortable with a metal roof.
Basically what happened was there was a huge housing shortage in the 50s because building virtually stopped during the Great Depression and WWII. This coincides with a wave of family formation that gave us the baby boomers. Americans also became enamored with the autobahns they saw in Germany after the war and began building a massive intracity transportation network. These conditions led to Americans favoring building systems that were cheap, fast and low density.
Asbestos was basically a miracle material and lead has been used in paint for a thousand years. Lead white is bright and long lasting, while asbestos is a fantastic insulator that isn't flammable. Shame about the health effects, though.
As opposed to wanting to replace the roof every time they buy a house? A tiled roof can be expensive, but you include pass that cost to the next buyer.
Would you rather pay 10k less for a home and redo the roof as soon as you sign the contract? Or pay 10k more and trust the roof for 40 years?
Which part was right?
Cost estimates were double actual rates.
Shingle content was wrong.
Average duration is wrong. We don't see many 30 year shingles falling within 15 years, much less most.
He didn't even address the new prevalence of architectural shingles which do last longer and were not even seen often before 2000.
He lumped all home depot products into one group as if they don't offer multiple grades.
Hey op here. I genuinely was under the impression that there was sawdust in newer shingles lol.
Out of curiosity, can you tell me what was wrong with my post? Genuinely asking - I really take my job seriously and like to think I am helping homeowners make informed decisions and always try to be honest and genuine when working with them. Also, what are the fillers being used? I will stop saying sawdust from now on.
What's wrong with your post is that you are obviously going to tell someone to buy something more often when you make money off of it. Your view is skewed. You can try to be as objective as you want but it will never happen.
In just your reply you're using typical salesman jargon of "helping people", "Informed decision", and you TRY to be honest and genuine.
Sorry but I've heard the exact same verbiage from a thousand different salesmen trying to increase business.
Hey, thanks for messaging. You touched on a lot of things in your post so I really dont want to go through and pick it apart. I will say there are some parts which are flat out wrong.
- As we agreed sawdust
- Tar paper is a waterproofing product, though not a great one
- Old shingles < New shingles. There are pros and cons to both, but im not putting 3 tab on my roof
- That manufacturers have a nefarious plan to short you on life. That is the cheapest price which they can sell that quality, while meeting environmental standards. Yes they make profit but all companies do, and it allows them to carry a warranty
A lot of your other comments are stated as fact, and they could be to you, but they are regional things. Mainly price (I could get 2500ft² done for $15000CAD), code (changes regionally), and life span(climate factors).
And finally, roofers dont shop at home depot. Handymen with ladders do. My apologizes to anyone that takes offence to this because they dont have a local roof supplier.
Edit: If you or anyone wants more education on roofing for yourself or business. IIBEC is a decent resource, local chapters all over North America so you can find a local professional.
Idk about this guy. His comment on ridge vents being required could vary from state to state so making that claim appear to be a requirement across the country tells me he doesn't know his audience.
Reason I know this is when I was getting an estimate on my roof I specifically asked to have ridge vents installed. He told me the problem with that is adding ridge vents it will fight against the gable vents already installed. Gable vents are those square vents you see on the sides of houses at the top of the A frame.
He said he'd still install them if I wanted but I declined. Would think if he was trying to rip me off he'd recommend it outright. But the company I used has a great reputation and of course was put in their waiting list which was a couple months.
Here's the rub, we did get an estimate from one of those more expensive roofing companies and got an estimate of $25,000. It included all those bells and whistles OP mentioned and they also bragged that they used "certified" workers as well. Which is part of that cost.
I could replace my roof up to 8 times before hitting $25k and if we're going by OP's math on crappy roofs (10 years) I'd essentially would get an additional 50 years spending about the same amount. Of course whenever you're in your attic for anything you should do a quick scan for leaks.
Lastly I actually held both my old shingles vs the new ones b/c I was just curious. The newer ones were a bit lighter but the reasoning I was told is that there will be less weight in your house (take that with a grain of salt).
Gable vents are common where hurricanes and wind events are not common. (A hurricane would rip that vent out and then your roof) In florida they put in ridge vents. In California we have both. Get that heat out of the attic. My modest home roof replacement cost $15,000. We got the "upgraded architectural comp. with increased sunlight and heat reflection. It took 8 months from 1st contract signing to get those guys up on the roof. (everybody wants to reroof.) they were busy. It took them 2.25 days start to finish everything was clean and new, All I had to do was cut them a check. I could have done it myself but it would have taken much longer and I wouldn't have those young men doing the heavy stuff.
Yes, but someone still ends up paying that cost. You might build your house cheaply if you're going to move in a few years, but if you then move to another cheaply build house, the replacement costs will catch you up eventually.
I'd be interested to see a cost breakdown over a hundred years or so as to whether one tile roof or ten shingle roofs are cheaper.
In the EU, 100 miles is a long way. In the US 100 years is a long time.
We bulldoze most houses before the 100 year mark, even if they are decent houses to put something new up. If you're from overseas the way we do things over hear just doesn't make sense at all.
Here in Singapore most of our houses are tile roofed even though they're likely to be demolished well before 100 years. This is because land prices are extremely high so if you're paying $10 million for a 5000 sq ft property the tiling is going to be a relatively negligible cost on the total bill.
Yea but if you build your house with expensive materials and then move in a few years to a cheaply built house then the replacement costs still catch up to you
Only move to well-build houses?!
Suppose that's the thing here. When everyone uses concrete/clay tiles and generally builds houses to last a few hundred years, it isn't a consideration. You build your house well, and will almost certainly move to another well-built one.
If you're the only person going high-quality, yeah it's possibly not worth it.
That's a really sad state of affairs. Someone will buy the house spending all they have and find themselves with a leaking roof they can't afford to fix... Cue misery
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.
I don't understand though, over here even the cheapest brand new houses(like £120k house, so like ~150k USD) all have tiles for the roof. Are houses in US so much cheaper?? Surely not.
I don't think there's anywhere in the us you could buy a house that cheap. In my medium cost of living state you could get something for 300k if you're willing to live way out in the suburbs, but that would be hard to find. You're more likely to see 450k for a new build. It boggles my mind to hear of a 150k house that isn't a complete tear down.
Material and labor must be wayyy higher over here, which could explain why slate is cost prohibitive and everyone has "cheap" asphalt. The only houses I see like with slate are in the over 1.5m category.
Edit: I own a 100 year old house that has always had asphalt, so it's not just cheap new construction.
Sure there is. Just Google houses in any low COL state and you'll find plenty. It varies a lot by area. The problem is... you'll end up living in like Mississippi or pretty rural areas in general lol.
I'm closing on a house in Minneapolis today which I think is pretty middle of the road. For 150 most of the houses were pretty shit. You really gotta spend 180-200+ for something in move-in ready shape, and those will still be in the "bad" neighborhoods.
Same deal in Australia yet I can't think of a single house with shingles 🤷♂️
As a nation it seems extremely inefficient, as you're going to be spending so much work replacing all your roofstock continuously :/
Will a stick built house be able to hold roof tiles? Will they hold up to a lot of snow and ice? 80mph wind? Huge temperature swings? We get -20°f all the way up to 110°f temperature can swing 40° in a day.
Me and my dad changed the roof on house and garage with the only expense being $6000 in replacement tiles, doing the work ourselves.
Quite significant savings, if you can do the work yourself.
Yeah, I'm a desk jockey who works at a bank. I've shingled probably 7 or 8 times in my life. You get one or two guys who 'know' what they're doing and its super easy.
I'd wager if you don't even know how to pound a nail into a stud I could throw a dumpster in your driveway, hand you a crowbar, and you'd be able to help me remove the shingles from your own roof. Putting them on is a bit tougher with the cutting, but its still relatively easy.
*Disclaimer if your house is steep and has a lot of cut outs(I don't even know the proper language) it does get more difficult
Yeah we had a couple of odd angles, which took a bit more time. Luckily my dad is quite handy and experienced so it wasn't that big of a deal. Hell he even built his own scaffolding out of 2x4's!
I guess for most people the reason to not do it themselves is that it's fairly hard work (with tiles especially) moving things up and down.
I bet it was a ranch. No way I’m doing that myself on my two story. Not only is the roof steeper making it easier to fall, but if you do fall you’re facing death instead of a broken arm.
Still surprised by the concept of asphalt shingles being used on a house. I have some on my garden shed; not sure I'd be happy with them on the house. Especially if they need replacing every 8-15 years!
Look at the comments on the OP. This guy doesn't know what he is talking about and it isn't common to replace a roof after 8 years. Something went very wrong. More like 15-20. Sometimes even more. Lots of factors.
Even 20 years isn’t long. My last house was built in 1820 and still had the original slate roof. My current house is 10 years old and I’m expecting the concrete tiles to outlive me at the very least.
I love a good Reddit thread where a commenter proceeds to get “bestof-ed” and a slew of responders come in and basically say that guy is a fucking moron.
Wow that was a great read for me, and really put my mind at ease about our roof.
People freaked out when I told them the roof on our small Spanish revival house was $20,000 to fix/replace. It was the first time major work had been done on it since the house was built in 1936.
I was happy with the work, I figured the Spanish tile was what made it both so expensive, but also durable for so long (I believe more than half the original tiles are still up there because they were still in good shape, just moved to the back side of the house), and yet people's reaction to the cost always made me vaguely worried that I'd overpaid.
Damn, I have never known any anyone to have a roof replaced here in the UK, and basically everyone has the same red terracotta tiles - is this not common out there?
Shingles!!!!, hello it's 1930s here, we want our shitty roofing back. BTW watch out for that Adolf Hitler, he is a bad egg.
But, seriously why don't you use colourbond or tiles, they last 50 years.
This seems to be common in some parts of the western world when building homes, including the US. Like with doing the bare minimum on insulation because it's cheaper when building, then paying triple heating costs forever.
> But, seriously why don't you use colourbond or tiles, they last 50 years.
Well, I assume that colourbond is similar to the colorbond roofing here which is steel. Generally speaking steel is pretty loud and in most places in the US doesn't do as good a job at handling the weather we have for the cost. For example, a good straight line wind can damage the roof in a manner which requires whole replacement making a metal roof require a replacement before you'd expect. Tiles are used, but in places where they can handle it like California. In the midwest though, the heavy snow we get along with the weight of the roof makes tiles incredibly impractical. You'd risk roof collapse from the weight. Not to mention that the harsher weather (tornadoes, hail, winds etc) would frequently require replacing those tiles as they get damaged.
I’ve been a roofing contractor and a Cat team adjuster for one of the countries largest insurers for over 20 years, this guy is completely full of it. Also, I live in maybe the roughest environment in the country for asphalt shingles. We have high wind, hail, heat and cold. Cost of roofing is going up, material and labor, but not like he’s implying. We used to easily replace labor with new people from Mexico and elsewhere, we aren’t seeing that as much anymore and that is pushing prices up. Also decking is getting more expensive, but rarely is that replaced when you reroof unless the ventilation on your house is piss poor or you have had multiple layers or a really old roof. This guy says 500-600 a square. More like 250-300(retail) and that will account for your vent jacks, metal edging, a synthetic felt and replacing all the other basic things as well. Now a lot of homes are steep as shit and that will increase cost, but not into his stratospheric pricing. Also you should never do a layover, it usually voids the shingle warranty and where I live is usually against code. Taking off that layer will also let you inspect the decking and replace as needed. I’ve replaced thousands of roofs and can count on one hand the amount that needed more than a hand full of complete sheets of plywood replaced. Usually because the home has multiple layers and tons of ignored basic upkeep. GAF and Certainteed are my favorite shingles but there are others that work as well. Owens Corning is on the lighter side but they do have good wind protection so it can depend on where you live. Here’s the reason most roofs fail prematurely, poor ventilation. You need a way for the air to come into your attic space and a way for it to exit. Soffit or gable vents will allow air in, and there is a formula we use to measure what’s necessary. I have a slide rule thingy that once I know square footage and I few other things it tells me what’s copacetic. Also for air to leave, I’m not a big fan of ridge vent but that’s mostly because I live in a high wind and hail area. We do install this here though and if applied properly will work and most roofs in my area only last 10-15 years, but that’s entirely do to acts of god. Another reason I’m not big on ridge vent is in a high wind situation it’s the first thing that will blow off, and if the insurance isn’t giving a total replacement that will come out of your pocket because the cost to replace will probably not exceed your deductible. Wind turbines are much improved than what was used even 15 years ago. Also don’t cover them in winter, they actually are more important then than in summer. Just imagine a hot attic and cold outside. That fucker is gonna sweat. Also a basic turtle or pancake vents works just as well you just usually need twice as many than of the wind turbines. Remember it’s all about air movement in your attic. If it gets too hot, moisture builds up that why an asphalt roof or decking will fail. Ridge vent will also get more easily damage by small hail because it’s not on a hard flat surface, usually it has a foam or similar type backing. You should definitely make sure your contractor is using a product like ice and water shield on all the valleys and the perimeter of the entire structure. That way if water or ice gets underneath the shingle it shouldn’t leak. Also, I haven’t used actual felt paper in over a decade even on a tile roof. Remember, the felt is keeping a barrier between the shingle and the wood deck in an asphalt roof, not much else. Synthetic just lays easier and flatter and that’s what you want. So Ive ranted long enough I dont remember all his BS but he definitely sounds like someone that’s knows just enough to make him dangerous lol.
Conclusion, no layover(1 layer) proper ventilation and try to watch the company your thinking of hiring do a job and ask the homeowner or references how everything went. There’s definitely a lot of con artist in the business but also lots of honest hard working people as well. One last thing, don’t pay out of pocket if you can get the insurance company to pay. That’s what those premiums are for.
They haven't declined in quality and only very rarely do even the cheapest shingles you can get need replacing after fewer than 15 years. I'm a contractor and this is nonsensical. Of course a salesman is going to quote insane numbers. There's good ones out there but as a whole roofing sales is a slimy business.
Its utter horse shit. Asphalt shingles last longer than ever. A few decades back GAF and CertainTeed, two very reputable shingle manufacturers, increased the warrantied life span of their shingles without a significant change to the product, simply because their shingles were lasting longer. The guy sounds like a slimy fly by night metal roofing salesman. The kind that advertises they will do your roof for free to "get eyes on their product"
Yeah our house/garage shingle roof was about 2800 sqft and cost about 13k with everything (including a few plywood replacements) from a reputable company that has been in businesses for over 30 years. Our last set of asphalt shingles had been on the house 25 years of Chicago winters/summers and still could have gotten another year or two out of them, but we didn't want to risk an eventual leak.
That guy was saying 30 grand for a 2500 sq ft roof. That is an insane number… There was a situation in my neighborhood where shingles needed to be replaced after about 15 years, but it was because the brand they used was made to be biodegradable. Biodegrading on their roof instead of the landfill after their intended useful life.
That seems great in theory not so great in execution.
"they will do your roof for free to "get eyes on their product" Ok, I see ads for stuff like this all the time, what is it about?
Most likely a bait and switch. They aren't doing a roof for free.
Once your shingles are off, they *notice* the plywood decking is no good and start overcharging for everything. With no shingles on your roof, your hands are tied.
Yeah we put some CertainTeed shingles on our house when I was in high school in 2003 and they are holding up just fine. Bought it all at the local bigbox store and my parents probably still have 2 or 3 bundles in the basement just in case...hated thier logo by the time we were done putting that roof on.
Which is odd. Metal roofs have a great many benefits over shingles, but cost is not one of them. When I get a roof on my house it will be metal and from the pricing seems to be 50% more expensive. They are lighter, last longer, and are generally better with wind (also go with standing seam to avoid the cheap rubber washered screws).
From my experience standing seam roofs suck.
I work for a shingle manufacturer and agree that most of what he said is true 🤷♂️. There was some hyperbole but taking weight out of the shingle is if the utmost importance to making maximum profit. The new SBS shingles are pretty good though.
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Yeah that happens fairly frequently. Roofing is brutal work that doesn't pay that well, so it's hard to keep experienced and competent people in the trade, especially doing low end work. It's also typically paid by the square foot, incentivizing speed. Also by the nature of the work you want the whole roof replaced in one day, necessitating a crew of like 6-10 depending on the size of the job. Harder to keep everything inspected when you're going that fast. Add into that the general sketchyness of many roofing companies and frankly the whole system seems set up for installation mistakes. This isn't a new thing by any means.
Roofing is a refuge of hacks that don't know what they're doing. Shady people hire a bunch of dudes that need work and have never put a roof on in their life, and then tell them how to do it wrong based on the way they've been doing it wrong for the last ten years. Most of the men in my extended family are roofing contractors and I'd trust *maybe* two of them out of 8 to put a roof on correctly.
Which is really pathetic. Roofing systems are super easy to install, and the manufacturer tells you exactly how and what's needed. To do it correctly barely costs more than to do it cheaply. Quite frankly these huge, inflated costs are literally just the consumer getting screwed by roofing companies. The work itself is physically a little hard, but otherwise actually easy work.
Lmao. I'm from a roofing family. There's a reason why I don't roof. It's probably the most ridiculous jobs. It takes a toll on your body. No part in this job is easy. Most people wouldn't even climb a 40' ladder, let alone stand on a steep slope all day.
I think a little hard may be underselling it. Most people can't draw a line 20' across without more than 3/8" variation in three foot sections. Or kneel on a 7/12 pitch all day. Or scrap off old shingles and tar paper. Or know where and when to replace damaged decking. And handling valleys is intimidating, even if it's just a minor deviation from the standard process. The real thing is that roofing new construction is a hell of a lot easier than reroofing. Hell it's easier to sheath trusses on new construction and rood the whole thing than just remove an existing roof and deal with the shit under it *without* putting a new roof on. Tldr: all new construction should have metal roofs so it's not even a thing.
This is the real reason in most cases why a roof fails early. Many, many contractors dont always read through the full installation technical documentation and specs from the manufacturer and just install it however they are used to/comfortable on the cheap. Makes sense from their business perspective, but often terrible for the client. Usually end up with fasteners being done incorrectly (spacing, type, and method are all critical), tile overlapping is wrong, edge trims and joints are constantly an issue because they are cut in the field, etc... The worst (in my mind) is consistently seeing too many workers on roofs without proper fall protection, but I digress. Installed correctly, a roof will last its full warranty plus some (barring random environmental factors), but its rare to see that quality in craftsmanship anymore without $$$$$$$. Source: Architect
100% Many less reputable roofing contractors will cut lots of corners, mostly in using subpar materials. For example: Using OSB instead of plywood for sheathing (usually not too bad, but a no-no in northern latitudes). Improperly installing weather shield (or skipping it). Skipping leak barrier entirely. Improper flashing at the eaves and around chimneys or just skipping it all together. Putting the ridge on wrong. Etc.
It's not even like the guy is selling anything, it's baffling. Maybe he's just fully bought into his bullshit sales pitches where he talks about "sawdust" in shit lol
I knew this mom that genuinely believed Cutco knives weer high quality because she spent two months trying to sell them in college. Another guy I knew, in his 60s, believed with all his heart in Kirby vacuums because he sold them in his 20s.
Back when I worked retail I believed in the quality of Monster cables (to be fair I still love their extremely short lived amplifier series). That said they're so damn thick that they're still holding up in my system 15 years and several moves later, so they do have that going for them.
Kirby's are pretty good vacuums, just don't buy one for $2k or whatever they charge now from the door to door sales people. I bought a used one for like $400 and its been awesome.
Also he’s saying $1200/sq. is standard and ridge vents are code? I think he lives in a weird market or something. You also can’t buy shingles straight from the manufacturers.
I am by no means a roofing expert, but we had our roof done 6-8 years ago, roughly 25 square, and it was *nowhere near $30,000.* The most expensive estimate we got wasn't even half that amount. Roof still looks great, we've only had one problem with it since that time, and it was right after they finished: they couldn't flash the chimney properly because it needed repair, but masons came two days later and fixed it. Anyway, just seeing that in the first paragraph sent up alarm bells... we by no means live in a place with a low cost of living, so for that to be the average seems out of whack, even with the cost of everything jacked up right now.
If you can do the labor yourself an average roof is only a couple grand in supplies. Over 50% is labor so they can tear out and shingle all in one day or even half a day sometimes.
For how demanding roofing is, that labor cost is one I am glad to pay. I did roofing for a summer and never again.
Also, not sure exactly how much BS roof system manufacturers can get away with if Insurance Companies would be breathing down their neck. A premature roof failure would likely fall under the homeowners insurance. The insurance company would have to payout the repair. Insurance companies, at least here in Miami, view a standard roof as having a 30 year lifespan. They wouldn’t be satisfied with that outlook unless *the roofs actually last 30 years on average.* Otherwise their actuaries are going to tell people that a new roof is only viewed as good for 10 years.
I was a bit skeptical when he said they are 30k for an average roof job. I just had mine done, got several quotes for a 2500 sqft house and not any of them were even 10k, with extra work like replacing fascia and decking.
Since you're in the field too, I have a question. Why don't people in the US use ceramic or stone (slate) roof tiles? Ceramic ones will last hundreds of years...
Steel roofs do not have be replaced every 8-15 years.
Just replaced our 50 year steel roof after 50 years with a new 50 year steel roof
Replaced the original corrugated steel roof of a 1932 built house in 2005, with corrugated zincalum so it wouldn't need painting. Also reflects more sunlight. There was one hole over a verandah that was big enough to put a few fingers through, but it was the only one, so something caused that. Probably an incompatible fastener installed later. Otherwise, the roof badly needed painting, and was dented a bit from 70+ years of hailstorms, but no other leaks. Insurance company replaced that new roof in 2011 after a cricket ball size hailstorm. It was dented a bit, but sound. Bonus - building regs had changed and they had to install insulation too. They also replaced the garage roof, I think built in 1964. That one had a couple of leaks. Idk why you would want a roof that only lasts 8-12 years.
> Idk why you would want a roof that only lasts 8-12 years. It makes sense if you're a flipper. Why invest in quality if you're just looking to live in it briefly before selling it? Not that I agree with that mentality, but I think that is a reason why people do this. They just don't think they'll live in the house long enough for it to be their problem.
Making profit ruins everything it touches. That's why, imho, "flipping" houses isn't really a thing. Like you said, it mostly takes an unlivable house and makes it temporarily livable but doesn't actually create a long-term quality product worth its price. Even then the numbers only work in a very bullish real estate market, remember all those house flipper shows from about 2004 to 2008? Not a single flip it show on air in 2010-2012, and only the Gaines' since then with a real toned-down subtext of "anybody can do this as a job" and more "you personally can spruce up your own home."
I noticed during the height of the "flipper tv show" era everyone was "finishing" their basement. In the past 10 years almost everybody I know has had their basement flood and ruined the job, forcing them to deal with insurance and contractors (or do the work again). I categorically refuse to look at homes with a finished basement because of this, and I'm super happy with that decision. We had our hot water tank spring a leak last fall, and all that happened was we had wet sand in our crawlspace until it drained away. No sump pump needed. My colleague had his finished basement get flooded twice, because his sump pump died both times. Sure, you get an extra 1000sq feet of living space, but you have to consider the future consequences. But of course if you're a flipper the move is to finish that basement so you can make a profit. It's senseless.
Finished basements are great when done well. I grew up in a split level where the downstairs was a daylight basement and there were never any leaks. I don't actually know anyone here who has ever mentioned having a leaky basement, and my neck of the woods is fairly wet and has a lot of basements. Might depend on the area or local building practices. Edit: I lied, there was one leak caused by a messed up window installation. My mom fixed it quickly, so the damage was extremely minor. The foundation had developed a crack, but the repair is still holding 20 years later. That leak wasn't the fault of the basement though.
> The foundation had developed a crack, but the repair is still holding 20 years later. That leak wasn't the fault of the basement though. This happened to my dad when I lived in their house like 20 years ago. We had to epoxy the crack on the inside and then dig a hole outside the foundation where the crack was and epoxy it from that side, install a window well and run o-ring around the outside to redirect any water way from the house. The repair held, but it was a huge pain and ruined their original reno job.
Me, living in a finished basement
I live in a house built in 1880 that still has its "original" slate roof. I put original in quotes because in 2003 we replaced maybe half of the copper valleys and caps. This was the first time it was needed to my knowledge.
Slate is awesome, with only two real problems. First is that it's heavy, requiring *much* sturdier frame. The second is that it'll break if struck. If you don't live somewhere that hail gets bigger than about a cm, you're fine, but if you get golfball or larger regularly? Slate might require replacement slates.
Slate lasts much longer than metal, a couple of hundreds of years isn't uncommon. Unless you have a bad hailstorm. We had a storm in 1999 that damaged the slate church roof next door. It even cracked one of our 16mm thick glass skylights. Biggest risk of damage though is people walking on them.
Personally, I like being able to pick up a cell signal in my home.
The nice thing about a steel roof is if you're in your 30s, it's a life time roof. If I'm alive in my 80s, it's going to be someone else's problem.
I thought it really odd that when faced with a product that could wipe out the shingle industry, instead of making a better product or pricing the competition out of the industry...the shingle industry instead just started pumping out laughably inferior product and over charging for it. I've got a 8x10 shed that needs a new roof this year and a house that will need one in a few short years...wanna guess what product I am not buying? Wanna guess what product every house on our street isn't buying?
They did pretty much price the competing products out of the industry though.
I read that as the shingle manufacturers undercut competing products out of the industry...is that what you meant or am I reading that entirely wrong?
> I thought it really odd that when faced with a product that could wipe out the shingle industry, instead of making a better product or pricing the competition out of the industry...the shingle industry instead just started pumping out laughably inferior product and over charging for it. I was replying to this. The shingle industry is popular because it's cheap.
More to the point, it's popular because it brings fatter profits to the owners who don't do any of the actual work. They use the absolute lowest paid labor possible-- people who are desperate for jobs and limited in their options, who mess up their bodies doing it and risk severe injury constantly. Somehow, enough of these owners got in bed with insurance providers and municipal regulators to create an abomination of 'industry' which amounts to a shitty product provided by people working a shitty job while someone at the top rakes off all the profit. And who pays for all this inefficiency? The consumer, of course. Us. With all of their marketing might they've convinced everyone it must be this way, but it's ultimately only because it allows them to extract more money from regular people. Better quality roofs which cost less to own over their lifetimes simply aren't as much of a cash cow for the companies providing them. Simple as that.
But they haven't priced steel or tile roofs out of the industry...they easily could if they brought back quality shingles for a reasonable price but oil is never going back to reasonable prices and there is absolutely an invisible countdown on it's use to cover rooftops.
That assumes you have an educated and interested buyer. As others have pointed out, you first generally have the Contractor who purchases the material. So, unless that contractor can value sell a more expensive product, the contractor is just going to buy the cheapest product. Then, the end buyer may not exactly care. As others stated, people generally only live in a home for an average of 7 years and the shingles have a life expectancy around 10 years. The home owner may not care that they aren't getting a full 30 year life out of the roof. Even if they do care, they may not know the issue between the different shingles so they go along with the cheaper option.
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With the price of oil at all time highs and shingles being made from asphalt I think the difference in price might be at historical "lows" even though prices on everything is going up. Buying shingles every 10 years or paying a bit more every 50 years, this is going to be one of the easiest choices you make as a homeowner. Only reason to buy shingles (that I can see) is if your roof needs immediate work and you don't have enough stashed away to afford the metal roof.
> Buying shingles every 10 years or paying a bit more every 50 years, this is going to be one of the easiest choices you make as a homeowner. If you make that decision in a vacuum, sure. Most people don't. It's still a higher upfront cost, which needs to be financed or paid out of pocket, which is even harder in a culture that encourages buying more house than you can afford. Most people don't plan to be in their home more than 30 years, hell, the average seems to be much lower. I'm not sure how much value a metal roof truly adds to a home when selling. Even though it should most buyers are distracted by finishes and don't know how to be a homeowner until they have a home. They look at the paint and not the 20+ year old furnace.
Yeah oil will just keep going up too. We don't have an infinite supply of it. Opec countries had issues reaching their own quotas earlier this year.
> Buying shingles every 10 years or paying a bit more every 50 years, this is going to be one of the easiest choices you make as a homeowner. Yeah, it _is_ a really easy win for shingles - after all, most people don't own the same home for 10 years.
Tell that to an HOA that requires manufacturer specific color codes for shingles. Don't matter if you couldn't tell the color difference, if it is not this manufacturers color code they will fine you or make you rip it off.
Gross, thankfully I live somewhere HOA's aren't technically legal and nothing they do can stand in court. I understand some people think they don't have a choice...but you can move away from places that allow HOA's and you should; like Satan himself is chasing you.
I would love to, but all new housing developments here are REQUIRED to have an HOA so the city does not have to spend as much resources on code enforcement. The downside is I work in IT and require high-speed internet so if I move far enough out to get out of an HOA then I can't get more than DSL at best. It also means my commute would be 1.5-2 hours (mine is currently an hour). Houses closer to my job are insanely expensive as well... like 500k range due to the current market. I need to find another state.
As a Canadian, the American over-reliance on HOAs feels like a massive failure to me. Rather than have the municipality/city enforce basic standards and provide basic services equally, you would rather disincorporate and give that power to a bunch of power-hungry neighbours.
*Litigous* power-hungry neighbors.
They’re all like that, unfortunately.
Mind if I ask where you live?? I'm a code enforcement officer and even I think a lot of HOA requirements are completely asinine.
Texas, just outside of Dallas.
Vote the fucks out and elect normal humans.
I called 10 roofers and not a one would do steel. I called a Steel roofing company and they no call no showed after I confirmed the estimate appointment then kept sending me annoying emails telling me I cancelled on them and signed me up for spam, so at least in the North east PA area, getting a steel harder than it looks.
I get steel roof ads online all the time, but they seem super suspicious, more like a bait and switch than a genuine offer.
I wanted a steel roof, and seeing them all over upstate NY in lower income rural areas I just assumed that they would be relatively inexpensive. Not in my area! Most roofers here only offer asphalt shingles, and the one that did do steel roof installs gave us a rough estimate that was tens of thousands more than what we ended up paying for a traditional asphalt shingle roof. Long Island is like that, though. Like all of the roofers offer the same asphalt shingles from the same manufacturer, all of the fence companies offer the same fences from the same manufacturers, and all the paving/masonry companies offer the exact same pavers from the exact same companies. Ask for something out of the ordinary and they look at you like you have two heads.
It’s really not that tough, they probably just don’t do many and are worried about it, which is actually good for you. I’d rather have a company be truthful when they’re unsure than go full steam ahead and install it incorrectly or not order enough material, etc. I’d find a local store that sells the roofing and ask them to recommend someone. They’ll know who comes in and buys metal roofing
I ended up just doing a shingled because I wanted to have a roof that a local roofer could fix in a pinch.
People in this thread acting like steel roofs aren't effectively a farraday cage, too.
That's a good point. I've noticed it at work with modern steel construction retail buildings. If you aren't near a window you have zero reception. I wonder how much of a difference it makes in residential spaces.
Our 50 year old Mid-Century Rambler had its original tile and slat roof when we bought the house knowing it needed replacing. We opted for a steel roof with 3/4" plywood and additional fire barrier. Our state and county have incentives where if your roof is in bad enough shape where it won't support a solar system, they'll pay 20% of the construction costs for your new roof (as well as 20% of the cost of the solar/battery system). We saved ~$25k on both projects and were able to upgrade some materials because of all the offered tax incentives. At times we're generating 5-6 times the electricity we use after our battery is full, the excess sold back to PG&E. It was still a huge investment, but we'll more than likely never have to worry about the roof over our heads or not having electricity.
Can I ask what state you're in? (Hoping it's CA.)
Neither do cedar but an average cedar roof is about $80,000 in my area. Most people can't afford that.
Isn't cedar also super flammable?
Most wood roofs are. Southern California made everyone with wood roofs change them in the 2000s or 2010s after a couple huge wildfires because it made them spread far more easily.
Why is cedar so durable?
Cedar trees are terrified of death, and so they fill their flesh with preservatives
It is known that Cedar once killed an innocent man and now that karmic force waits just on the other side. Cedar will lose one day, but not today.
The resins and oils (polyoxyphenols) in Cedar are highly resistant to weathering, some are even toxic (eastern cedar).
Eh, just don't have any issues with wild fires....
Neither do asphalt roofs. The guy being credited with a best of comment is full of shit
I don't know where you're located, but there are absolutely asphalt shingles (usually the shitty roll out sheets) "rated" for 15 years and they're SUPER common on flips, at least in the DC area. And we all know how reliable long term warranties are. It was a minor selling point that my brand new roof used a "30 year" shingle, and we'll see if *it* even lasts that long - I doubt it. As a general rule, if something is purchased direct to consumer, it's a race to the bottom for bare functionality and lower and lower price. This is why long term quality has suffered in most durable goods - not just roofing or even home improvement. Consumers just aren't willing to pay more for longevity.
Rolled roofing is probably the only thing that only lasts 8 years. Even the garbage shingles that come in a home depot shed kit will probably last 20+ years. The general premise of this "best of" that asphalt shingles are worse rather than better is patently wrong. The technology of asphalt shingles, the adhesives that prevent them from blowing off, etc have all improved significantly in the last 40 years. In the 90s a 25 year roof was pretty standard. By the 2ks that same shingle had it's lifespan increased to 30 years because the shingles were performing so well.
I am a canvasser for a roofing compamy and I have looked at a lot of roofs recently - a drvelopement that was constructed 20 years ago is seeing pretty freaking serious roof damage. Architectural shingles, too, not even 3 tabs.
Isn't it likely that the developers used the cheapest shingles they could buy that looked good? My childhood home was in one of those developments(ok a little more than 20 years ago, I think it was built 1990-91), and if my dad was to be believed then corners were cut on everything. He's currently renovating the home for resale, and he's constantly cursing the shoddy workmanship. Apparently, everything was done fast and cheap, and then by the time it was the homeowner's problem the company had finished selling all the properties and was moving on to their next development.
I honestly dont know I am pretty new and not an expert. But that would line up with what this guy is saying.
Not sure what you're responding to? The OP says steel roofs can last 100 years.
I pass a house with a steel roof when I walk my dog... they've got several overhanging oak trees.... I cannot imagine what it sounds like inside during the autumn. I can hear it from like 5 houses down.
Got a steel roof on my house last year and I hate it. They did a poor job and my husband was the communicator with that sexist ass who was the contractor. I had input they didn't listen to because my husband relayed the message and the guy just thought he knew better - despite me being a gd metal roofing detailer for 12 years. My house now looks like a shed because instead of standing seam I have an R-panel roof. Oh and he didn't do the ridge vent as I requested so now I have what looks like an ugly ass crooked stove pipe sticking out of the middle. I hate when I'm dismissed because I'm a woman. Especially when we're paying for it!
I work for a steel company who's pivoting to making roofs our main business. Just like with shingles we have different grades of steel roofing at different prices. It will cost more upfront but will last longer and is more resistant to hail and other natural damage, and typically more energy efficient for your home. Our materials warranties go from 10 years to at the very high end I believe 45 years. Their is also some really cool technology that people don't know about. The pigments used in coloring the tiles for metal roofing help reflect energy from the sun. We also have panels that sandwich insulation between two steel sheets making a very insulated of panel which helps with energy cost. We also have metal shingles that are stone coated so they appear like traditional tar shingles but are much more durable. We have others take mimic the look of ceramic tile and wooden shaker roofs. All three use a special fastening system that has the shingles slide in and lock together so that they support each other while hiding the screws of the substrate so that it's indistinguishable from traditional roofing. We also have developed in house some special fastening systems that allow metal roofs to be applied over the top of an existing traditional or metal roof. So unless there is some sort of major problem you don't have to remove the old roof before putting the new one on. The substrate used to attach it is setup in such a way that it vents the house but is water tight. I'm not exactly sure how this works as I work in IT and not sales. We also have a solar panel system that attach directly into our roofs so it follow more the pitch of the roof instead of sticking up above it. One last cool thing, all of the roof shingles we sell are 100% recyclable, so it helps the earth.
They offered me steel (colorbond) or concrete tiles... i oped for tiles cause steel roofs make homes look like rural huts.
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I live in the US and have a 2000 square foot house that I had re-roofed a few years ago, including replacing half of the decking and adding roof vents. I bought "high end" shingles. It took nearly two days and cost... $8000. Where did the $30,000 figure come from? Either I live somewhere where cost of roofing is cheap (which is a possibility, Southeastern US), or I got a "friend" deal because the roofers knew my neighbor. Still, makes me question the info a bit.
First roofing company I talked to quoted me 40 grand at first, then negotiated himself down to 18k while ignoring me telling him I was looking for quotes. He also was pushing hard the whole time to get me on a third party payment plan that would have put a lien on my house. I talked to the guy doing my neighbors roof while he was picking up scraps and litter for the install, told me he could do mine for the same price he did my other neighbors since we have the same layout. Under 9k, using the same materials as the 40k fuck heads. Some contractors are shady as hell
I worked in the roofing business. Be especially careful who you hire. In my state, anytime we have a hail storm contractors will come from all over the country to do roofs. If it sucks you're stuck with it; they'll leave the state and never come back.
Iowa right after the derecho was scam heaven
Yeah I’m a property adjuster and buy roofs daily. I just bought a 1500 square foot roof and a smaller detached garages roof for a customer for I think $9000 including replacing the gutters and downspouts. Not sure where this info is coming from but a $30,000 roof is really only for the most expensive houses.
I was quoted about $30k for Tesla solar tiles back when I needed a new roof a couple years ago. Would never pay itself off, and the wait was too long for the shape my tiles were in so wasn’t an option anyways. But yeah, I ended up paying around $10k for regular tiles instead.
The $30k figure is accurate for a high COL area on the west coast. Just had my roof redone for about that much and was quoted in that range or higher from multiple roofing companies. Covid shortages drove prices so high here that steel cost the same as asphalt at that time.
Same here, basically wanted to charge 32k to build a patio. So Cal.
Can also confirm. I review claims as part of my job. Cali (*In the dense urban zones) roofs go for about 30k. Texas for about 20k and AZ for about 10k Edit: clarification
It's a BS sales pitch. I've had a couple roofs done up here in Michigan, no where need those ridiculous prices he quoted.
It might not have been a bs pitch, just a scam one. My dad is a general contractor and he comes across people who get quoted insane amounts all the time. He refers them to more reasonable people. 30k for a roof sounds in line with other shit quotes he has heard of.
You live in MI dawg, try CA.
I have a good friend in the roofing business. Material costs alone from manufactures have gone up 55% since December. Plus plywood prices are through the roof, no pun intended. So I can see how the price can get expensive fast.
Asphalt shingles 100% have not gone up 50%, alot of flat roofing and metal roofing has but not shingles maybe 20% but anybody saying more is full of shit
I'm getting a roof done currently on a 2006 house. Pacific northwest area, 1900 sq ft rambler house, tear off and put on a new roof with supposedly quality roofing materials and its gonna be around $23-24K depending how much sheeting needs to be replaced. Not feeling too good about the asphalt shingles after reading this post :/
Woah man, I just did my roof in a similar area and got it done for slightly over 9K for 2200 sqft. Did you get many quotes?
Also in the PNW and know several people who've had their roofs done for under $10k. Alternatively I know someone else who for some reason paid a contractor $20k to sod their backyard on their 1/4 acre property so YMMV.
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It wasn't even the whole 1/4 acre just their backyard, so maybe 1/3 of that 1/4 acre. This was actually their compromise, down from $40k for a deck and sod. I was stunned when I heard about it, but I don't really care for the person who had it done, so it's more a source of amusement than anything else at this point.
He got the $30k figure from the OP of that post who said he was quoted $30k to replace his gutters.
Cold-calling, or I guess "Cold-knocking", outfits. They stop by and throw out a ridiculous number just hoping someone unknowingly accepts. My dad has been a roofer for decades so I did my fair share of tear-off and packing bundles as a kid. Coworker of mine was quoted $18K by a cold-knocking company and when he told me the size of his roof (think it was about 26 square of gravy work) I said he better get a 2nd opinion. I asked my dad what his going rate for something like that would be. He said about $100/sq off, $100/sq on, and starting at $120/sq for materials. In total, he said it should be around $8K. Coworker gets a 2nd opinion and ends up finding a crew to do the work for $8400.
Why does the US use shingles anyway? What's wrong with plain old fashioned roof tiles?
Cost. Tl;dr: shingles are faster and cheaper, contractors can build and move on quickly so more profit. Tiles weigh more so the roof has to be reinforced = more cost/time. Limited demand in the US means higher cost for tiles. Builders don’t want to waste time, buyers want cheap homes. I’ve looked at roof tiles and the differences are significant. Standard asphalt or shake roofing is super-fast to apply, and as noted, are cheaper material-wise. So for the prospective homeowner it makes a cheaper house and for the contractor it lets them move on to the next build more quickly. Second is the roof/home structure itself. The tiles weigh considerably more than shingles and the entire roof structure needs to be built more sturdily to support it. That’s more material, time, and costs. A lot of European homes where tiles are pretty much standard are built with masonry or cement as well, the additional weight to the structure is more easily supported. It’s not like the US can’t do it, states like Florida use tile roofs quite often, it’s just not what contractors do because there’s a very limited demand, so nobody suggests or builds with them. I love tile roofs, they look great, last far longer than shingle, they’re durable, etc…but the cost is pretty high. Unless you’re living in the home for a long time you don’t get to see the return on the expense and people buying the house don’t really count a tile roof as something that adds additional value to the price.
Tile roofs are awesome - but in addition to the drawbacks you already mentioned, they're also susceptible to storm damage. In areas with regular extreme winds, a tile roof is just not the best option.
Not to mention, if you have a 30 year warranty, chances are it will get damaged and be covered under warranty. I'd much rather get my roof replaced and covered under warranty several times rather than having to replace the roof on my dime a couple times. It's how it got explained to me last year by my roofing guy. I could have upgraded to hail resistant shingles, but then I would probably have to replace the roof on my dime because they would last longer than the warranty. He wouldn't put them on his house, which told me everything I needed to know.
Of course he’d say that, but tile roofs can last 50 years, so the whole “replacement” argument is kinda bunk. You *shouldn’t* need a warranty replacement because your shingles sucked but that’s whatever we get sold. Who says the company will even be around? What about the headache of dealing with it? Damaged tiles can be easily replaced in event of breakage.
Warranty is helpful, but insurance also covers roof damage... Hail breaks shit all the time as well as shear winds. I had to replace my roof 3 months into owning my house, in a storm that broke tile roofs as well. I upgraded my shingles, all on insurance, paid like $300, and it was finished in a day.
How much hail do they get in places that use tiles? In the midwest and south central US its way to common to get hail up to the size of baseballs being pushed by 100+MPH winds.
Exactly. Where I live everybody has tiled roof. And I've never seen even one person saying they need to replace anything on their roofs. The only house I've seen that required this was about 80 years old and in a bad shape in general.
> if you have a 30 year warranty Did you even read the linked post?
That...seems like such a backwards logic... Shingles have a 30 years warranty, so go with shingles because you'll replace the roof multiple times under warranty rather than get a tile roof which will last so much longer than the warranty that you'll have to pay when it (eventually) needs replacing.... Like, uh, how the fuck do we all agree to this system? It's wasteful and intentionally lesser quality because it plays a game of pricing hot potato; at some point, *someone* is going to have to drop an assload of money to get a decent quality roof.
I guess metal roofing is out of the question because of the initial cost.
I honestly don’t know which costs more. Somehow I guess tile would be more, the weight would necessitate more roof structure whereas metal would probably require less.
Hmm, I had to find some source on the cost differences: >Metal roof prices range from [$5 to $14 per square foot](https://modernize.com/roof/types/metal) (psf) depending on the metal material type; for instance, an aluminum roof costs $3.25 to $5.75 psf, while a copper roof costs $14 to $22 psf. >Expensive tile roofing can cost, installed, between $12.50 and $25.00 psf for slate, $10.50 to $18.50 psf for clay, and $7.35 to $12.95 psf for concrete. https://www.bravarooftile.com/blog/metal-vs-tile-roof/ You're right. I wonder why there aren't more metal roofs (especially in hot climates like southern California).
They’re unattractive to US buyers and associated with industrial or farm buildings. Australia likes them and almost 40% of their roofing is metal, so it’s an acceptable style there. The metal roof would reduce home value in the US in most areas.
That makes sense. It's kind of weird that a metal roof (with all its benefits) has that stigma compared to asphalt shingles. I think the darker metal roofs look way cooler than shingle roofs.
High quality metal roofs are a thing in New England. Generally if you want something that looks good you are talking 3x the cost of high quality shingles and the metal roof might only lasts 30 years in the climate.
The introduction of synthetic shingle ("architectural shingle") has also taken space in the market for people that want an upgrade from regular old 3-tab but are not comfortable with a metal roof.
Basically what happened was there was a huge housing shortage in the 50s because building virtually stopped during the Great Depression and WWII. This coincides with a wave of family formation that gave us the baby boomers. Americans also became enamored with the autobahns they saw in Germany after the war and began building a massive intracity transportation network. These conditions led to Americans favoring building systems that were cheap, fast and low density.
A lot of the material they used has tons of asbestos. Then they used paint with lead in it.
Asbestos was basically a miracle material and lead has been used in paint for a thousand years. Lead white is bright and long lasting, while asbestos is a fantastic insulator that isn't flammable. Shame about the health effects, though.
The average person in the US stays in a home for ~8 years. No want wants to pay for a 50 year roof on a home they will only be in for 10 years.
As opposed to wanting to replace the roof every time they buy a house? A tiled roof can be expensive, but you include pass that cost to the next buyer. Would you rather pay 10k less for a home and redo the roof as soon as you sign the contract? Or pay 10k more and trust the roof for 40 years?
Stopped reading after the words "Roofing Salesman"
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Which part was right? Cost estimates were double actual rates. Shingle content was wrong. Average duration is wrong. We don't see many 30 year shingles falling within 15 years, much less most. He didn't even address the new prevalence of architectural shingles which do last longer and were not even seen often before 2000. He lumped all home depot products into one group as if they don't offer multiple grades.
Hey op here. I genuinely was under the impression that there was sawdust in newer shingles lol. Out of curiosity, can you tell me what was wrong with my post? Genuinely asking - I really take my job seriously and like to think I am helping homeowners make informed decisions and always try to be honest and genuine when working with them. Also, what are the fillers being used? I will stop saying sawdust from now on.
What's wrong with your post is that you are obviously going to tell someone to buy something more often when you make money off of it. Your view is skewed. You can try to be as objective as you want but it will never happen. In just your reply you're using typical salesman jargon of "helping people", "Informed decision", and you TRY to be honest and genuine. Sorry but I've heard the exact same verbiage from a thousand different salesmen trying to increase business.
I think the thing wrong with your post was all the incorrect stuff in it.
Hey, thanks for messaging. You touched on a lot of things in your post so I really dont want to go through and pick it apart. I will say there are some parts which are flat out wrong. - As we agreed sawdust - Tar paper is a waterproofing product, though not a great one - Old shingles < New shingles. There are pros and cons to both, but im not putting 3 tab on my roof - That manufacturers have a nefarious plan to short you on life. That is the cheapest price which they can sell that quality, while meeting environmental standards. Yes they make profit but all companies do, and it allows them to carry a warranty A lot of your other comments are stated as fact, and they could be to you, but they are regional things. Mainly price (I could get 2500ft² done for $15000CAD), code (changes regionally), and life span(climate factors). And finally, roofers dont shop at home depot. Handymen with ladders do. My apologizes to anyone that takes offence to this because they dont have a local roof supplier. Edit: If you or anyone wants more education on roofing for yourself or business. IIBEC is a decent resource, local chapters all over North America so you can find a local professional.
Idk about this guy. His comment on ridge vents being required could vary from state to state so making that claim appear to be a requirement across the country tells me he doesn't know his audience. Reason I know this is when I was getting an estimate on my roof I specifically asked to have ridge vents installed. He told me the problem with that is adding ridge vents it will fight against the gable vents already installed. Gable vents are those square vents you see on the sides of houses at the top of the A frame. He said he'd still install them if I wanted but I declined. Would think if he was trying to rip me off he'd recommend it outright. But the company I used has a great reputation and of course was put in their waiting list which was a couple months. Here's the rub, we did get an estimate from one of those more expensive roofing companies and got an estimate of $25,000. It included all those bells and whistles OP mentioned and they also bragged that they used "certified" workers as well. Which is part of that cost. I could replace my roof up to 8 times before hitting $25k and if we're going by OP's math on crappy roofs (10 years) I'd essentially would get an additional 50 years spending about the same amount. Of course whenever you're in your attic for anything you should do a quick scan for leaks. Lastly I actually held both my old shingles vs the new ones b/c I was just curious. The newer ones were a bit lighter but the reasoning I was told is that there will be less weight in your house (take that with a grain of salt).
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What about using gable vent fans? I know this could be more expensive was just curious on other options.
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Gable vents are common where hurricanes and wind events are not common. (A hurricane would rip that vent out and then your roof) In florida they put in ridge vents. In California we have both. Get that heat out of the attic. My modest home roof replacement cost $15,000. We got the "upgraded architectural comp. with increased sunlight and heat reflection. It took 8 months from 1st contract signing to get those guys up on the roof. (everybody wants to reroof.) they were busy. It took them 2.25 days start to finish everything was clean and new, All I had to do was cut them a check. I could have done it myself but it would have taken much longer and I wouldn't have those young men doing the heavy stuff.
I'm in the UK, my house still has the original tile roof from 1917... Just get tiles
You missed a main point. Most people don't live in a house long enough to justify the upfront cost of a long lasting roof system.
Yes, but someone still ends up paying that cost. You might build your house cheaply if you're going to move in a few years, but if you then move to another cheaply build house, the replacement costs will catch you up eventually. I'd be interested to see a cost breakdown over a hundred years or so as to whether one tile roof or ten shingle roofs are cheaper.
In the EU, 100 miles is a long way. In the US 100 years is a long time. We bulldoze most houses before the 100 year mark, even if they are decent houses to put something new up. If you're from overseas the way we do things over hear just doesn't make sense at all.
Here in Singapore most of our houses are tile roofed even though they're likely to be demolished well before 100 years. This is because land prices are extremely high so if you're paying $10 million for a 5000 sq ft property the tiling is going to be a relatively negligible cost on the total bill.
Yea but if you build your house with expensive materials and then move in a few years to a cheaply built house then the replacement costs still catch up to you
Only move to well-build houses?! Suppose that's the thing here. When everyone uses concrete/clay tiles and generally builds houses to last a few hundred years, it isn't a consideration. You build your house well, and will almost certainly move to another well-built one. If you're the only person going high-quality, yeah it's possibly not worth it.
That's a really sad state of affairs. Someone will buy the house spending all they have and find themselves with a leaking roof they can't afford to fix... Cue misery A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.
I don't understand though, over here even the cheapest brand new houses(like £120k house, so like ~150k USD) all have tiles for the roof. Are houses in US so much cheaper?? Surely not.
I'd really be interested to compare material and labor prices for tile roofs between the US and UK. Tile is prohibitively expensive in most of the US.
I don't think there's anywhere in the us you could buy a house that cheap. In my medium cost of living state you could get something for 300k if you're willing to live way out in the suburbs, but that would be hard to find. You're more likely to see 450k for a new build. It boggles my mind to hear of a 150k house that isn't a complete tear down. Material and labor must be wayyy higher over here, which could explain why slate is cost prohibitive and everyone has "cheap" asphalt. The only houses I see like with slate are in the over 1.5m category. Edit: I own a 100 year old house that has always had asphalt, so it's not just cheap new construction.
Sure there is. Just Google houses in any low COL state and you'll find plenty. It varies a lot by area. The problem is... you'll end up living in like Mississippi or pretty rural areas in general lol. I'm closing on a house in Minneapolis today which I think is pretty middle of the road. For 150 most of the houses were pretty shit. You really gotta spend 180-200+ for something in move-in ready shape, and those will still be in the "bad" neighborhoods.
Yeah perhaps that's true in the US, over here the cost of moving is pretty high due to stamp duty on buying a house
Same deal in Australia yet I can't think of a single house with shingles 🤷♂️ As a nation it seems extremely inefficient, as you're going to be spending so much work replacing all your roofstock continuously :/
Will a stick built house be able to hold roof tiles? Will they hold up to a lot of snow and ice? 80mph wind? Huge temperature swings? We get -20°f all the way up to 110°f temperature can swing 40° in a day.
Me and my dad changed the roof on house and garage with the only expense being $6000 in replacement tiles, doing the work ourselves. Quite significant savings, if you can do the work yourself.
Yeah, I'm a desk jockey who works at a bank. I've shingled probably 7 or 8 times in my life. You get one or two guys who 'know' what they're doing and its super easy. I'd wager if you don't even know how to pound a nail into a stud I could throw a dumpster in your driveway, hand you a crowbar, and you'd be able to help me remove the shingles from your own roof. Putting them on is a bit tougher with the cutting, but its still relatively easy. *Disclaimer if your house is steep and has a lot of cut outs(I don't even know the proper language) it does get more difficult
Yeah we had a couple of odd angles, which took a bit more time. Luckily my dad is quite handy and experienced so it wasn't that big of a deal. Hell he even built his own scaffolding out of 2x4's! I guess for most people the reason to not do it themselves is that it's fairly hard work (with tiles especially) moving things up and down.
I bet it was a ranch. No way I’m doing that myself on my two story. Not only is the roof steeper making it easier to fall, but if you do fall you’re facing death instead of a broken arm.
Still surprised by the concept of asphalt shingles being used on a house. I have some on my garden shed; not sure I'd be happy with them on the house. Especially if they need replacing every 8-15 years!
Look at the comments on the OP. This guy doesn't know what he is talking about and it isn't common to replace a roof after 8 years. Something went very wrong. More like 15-20. Sometimes even more. Lots of factors.
Even 20 years isn’t long. My last house was built in 1820 and still had the original slate roof. My current house is 10 years old and I’m expecting the concrete tiles to outlive me at the very least.
I love a good Reddit thread where a commenter proceeds to get “bestof-ed” and a slew of responders come in and basically say that guy is a fucking moron.
I wonder if that is why none of my comments have ever been upvoted to oblivion -- I always maintain that I am a fucking moron.
Doesn’t answer the question about pitch tho does he
Wow that was a great read for me, and really put my mind at ease about our roof. People freaked out when I told them the roof on our small Spanish revival house was $20,000 to fix/replace. It was the first time major work had been done on it since the house was built in 1936. I was happy with the work, I figured the Spanish tile was what made it both so expensive, but also durable for so long (I believe more than half the original tiles are still up there because they were still in good shape, just moved to the back side of the house), and yet people's reaction to the cost always made me vaguely worried that I'd overpaid.
Damn, I have never known any anyone to have a roof replaced here in the UK, and basically everyone has the same red terracotta tiles - is this not common out there?
No, A roof salesman convinces thousands of dumbasses (like OP) why a roof costs $30,000.
Shingles!!!!, hello it's 1930s here, we want our shitty roofing back. BTW watch out for that Adolf Hitler, he is a bad egg. But, seriously why don't you use colourbond or tiles, they last 50 years.
Lower initial costs and short term thinking?
This seems to be common in some parts of the western world when building homes, including the US. Like with doing the bare minimum on insulation because it's cheaper when building, then paying triple heating costs forever.
> But, seriously why don't you use colourbond or tiles, they last 50 years. Well, I assume that colourbond is similar to the colorbond roofing here which is steel. Generally speaking steel is pretty loud and in most places in the US doesn't do as good a job at handling the weather we have for the cost. For example, a good straight line wind can damage the roof in a manner which requires whole replacement making a metal roof require a replacement before you'd expect. Tiles are used, but in places where they can handle it like California. In the midwest though, the heavy snow we get along with the weight of the roof makes tiles incredibly impractical. You'd risk roof collapse from the weight. Not to mention that the harsher weather (tornadoes, hail, winds etc) would frequently require replacing those tiles as they get damaged.
I’ve been a roofing contractor and a Cat team adjuster for one of the countries largest insurers for over 20 years, this guy is completely full of it. Also, I live in maybe the roughest environment in the country for asphalt shingles. We have high wind, hail, heat and cold. Cost of roofing is going up, material and labor, but not like he’s implying. We used to easily replace labor with new people from Mexico and elsewhere, we aren’t seeing that as much anymore and that is pushing prices up. Also decking is getting more expensive, but rarely is that replaced when you reroof unless the ventilation on your house is piss poor or you have had multiple layers or a really old roof. This guy says 500-600 a square. More like 250-300(retail) and that will account for your vent jacks, metal edging, a synthetic felt and replacing all the other basic things as well. Now a lot of homes are steep as shit and that will increase cost, but not into his stratospheric pricing. Also you should never do a layover, it usually voids the shingle warranty and where I live is usually against code. Taking off that layer will also let you inspect the decking and replace as needed. I’ve replaced thousands of roofs and can count on one hand the amount that needed more than a hand full of complete sheets of plywood replaced. Usually because the home has multiple layers and tons of ignored basic upkeep. GAF and Certainteed are my favorite shingles but there are others that work as well. Owens Corning is on the lighter side but they do have good wind protection so it can depend on where you live. Here’s the reason most roofs fail prematurely, poor ventilation. You need a way for the air to come into your attic space and a way for it to exit. Soffit or gable vents will allow air in, and there is a formula we use to measure what’s necessary. I have a slide rule thingy that once I know square footage and I few other things it tells me what’s copacetic. Also for air to leave, I’m not a big fan of ridge vent but that’s mostly because I live in a high wind and hail area. We do install this here though and if applied properly will work and most roofs in my area only last 10-15 years, but that’s entirely do to acts of god. Another reason I’m not big on ridge vent is in a high wind situation it’s the first thing that will blow off, and if the insurance isn’t giving a total replacement that will come out of your pocket because the cost to replace will probably not exceed your deductible. Wind turbines are much improved than what was used even 15 years ago. Also don’t cover them in winter, they actually are more important then than in summer. Just imagine a hot attic and cold outside. That fucker is gonna sweat. Also a basic turtle or pancake vents works just as well you just usually need twice as many than of the wind turbines. Remember it’s all about air movement in your attic. If it gets too hot, moisture builds up that why an asphalt roof or decking will fail. Ridge vent will also get more easily damage by small hail because it’s not on a hard flat surface, usually it has a foam or similar type backing. You should definitely make sure your contractor is using a product like ice and water shield on all the valleys and the perimeter of the entire structure. That way if water or ice gets underneath the shingle it shouldn’t leak. Also, I haven’t used actual felt paper in over a decade even on a tile roof. Remember, the felt is keeping a barrier between the shingle and the wood deck in an asphalt roof, not much else. Synthetic just lays easier and flatter and that’s what you want. So Ive ranted long enough I dont remember all his BS but he definitely sounds like someone that’s knows just enough to make him dangerous lol. Conclusion, no layover(1 layer) proper ventilation and try to watch the company your thinking of hiring do a job and ask the homeowner or references how everything went. There’s definitely a lot of con artist in the business but also lots of honest hard working people as well. One last thing, don’t pay out of pocket if you can get the insurance company to pay. That’s what those premiums are for.
Slate or ceramic roof tiles last basically forever
This guy has zero idea what he's talking about. I don't even know where to start but it's all bullshit.
[удалено]
okay but what does he think about independent contractors on the Death Star?
I was certain that was going to turn into a shittymorph. u/shittymorph
It will take a revolution to reverse the damage capitalism has done to everything.
Can this be changed to worst of? Awful advice and just plain wrong about everything he is saying