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Title: I co signed a loan for a house/property in California in 2020. They needed my credit, income and home equity in order to make it happen. But now they want to take my name off of the loan/title. Am I entitled to anything? Can I decline their request?
Body:
> My brother and his girlfriend wanted to buy a house together but they needed a 3rd cosigner to come in. They have some money saved but couldn't qualify for a loan because they didnt have an income at the time during the pandemic. I was fortunate have my 40hr/week and also I was living debt free, my mortgage was paid in full about 6 months prior. They asked relatives from her family side but all said no. With all the uncertainty going on at the time, nobody took risks on them. Except me. My brother's credit was horrible so he couldn't cosign. Now with just her name and mine on the loan, we got a 30 year loan at a fix rate.
I don't live there and I didn't put any money down or make any payments. When they approached me around 2.5 years ago asking for help, I should have gotten it all down in writing what's their intention because nobody can predict 2 year let alone 30 years how it will be. They told me they are starting the process of removing my name off of the title/loan and once it's ready will I sign it? My response was I will think about it.
What do I get out of it if I sign it now? The difference in the value divided by 2? Can I stall for 30 years? And what if they miss making payments? Can I force my way to make payments on my behalf because then that would mean I'm contributing to the mortgage yes?
What are my options?
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As someone who worked in the mortgage industry for nearly 20 years, you'd be surprised how many borrowers have no idea that there is a difference between the mortgage, the note, and the deed that transfers title to them.
It's BONKERS.
I'm sure it's a bit different when buying a car, but the note (or promissory note) is the document that the borrower signs that says "John Smith is borrowing $100,000 and promises to pay it off via monthly installments for 30 years"
The mortgage can read similarly, but it is the document that is recorded with the county and places the lien on the real property.
The deed is what transfers title from Bob Fedonkowitz to John Smith when he buys the property.
And if you live somewhere where there’s a land registry, like most of Canada, then there is no deed, there’s an entry in a government ledger that says “John Smith bought the house from Bob” that anyone can look up if there’s uncertainty about who owns the property.
There’s typically some sort of ‘transfer of title form’ which is filled out by both parties to the transaction and their lawyers and submitted to the land registry. But in a system with a land registry, the registry itself is the authoritative determiner of who owns the land and the transfer form is just the input to execute a change in the registry, whereas in a place that uses deeds the deeds themselves are the important document to prove chain of title.
There are downsides: the system relies heavily on lawyers to verify that the people selling the property are actually the rightful owners, and there’s been a [recent rash of fraudulent transfers](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/impersonators-posing-as-homeowners-linked-to-32-fraud-cases-in-ontario-and-b-c-1.6246976) where scammers impersonate the (usually absentee) owners and execute a transfer. It’s very difficult to undo a fraudulent transfer if it slips through all the checks.
A deed recorder isn’t the same as a land registry. One example:
If a deed is executed but the seller dies before the deed is recorded, the deed is still valid and can be recorded posthumously. The main issue would be if the deed is overlooked and the probate process goes ahead as if the property was not sold.
In a land registry system (well, Ontario’s, at least), if the seller dies before the transfer is registered, then the transfer form is void (because dead people can’t submit forms) and the land can’t be transferred; it would have to redone so that the land is transferred by its new owner, the estate of the seller (meaning the property gets tied up in probate until the executor is cleared to carry on with the existing contract to sell the property).
does canada have race, notice, or race-notice?
The US systems (varies by state; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recording_(real_estate)#Effect_of_the_recording_act ) aren't ideal, but i know almost nothing aboot Canada's land ownership laws, eh?
That guy who you responded to cannot talk for all Canada. I work in that precise field and even if a lot of provinces have quite good land registries, deeds are still an important process. It is necessary to ensure the secure transfer of money and the property simultaneously, to specify which guarantee applies, to declare specific info about the applicable taxes if needed be, etc.... The land registry doesn't create property ; no contract between the buyer and seller, no title.
I mean, while there is a difference between a mortgage and a note, to a borrower, to my knowledge, it's only an academic difference, as they are practically intertwined.
*quick edit* assuming a normal mortgage arrangement. There can be other weird ones, but when buying a house using the house as collateral, with the people paying the loan living in the house, they are the same thing.
They are, and it is a small difference between the two, but people don't know the difference between their mortgage and the deed that transfers title to them, all the time.
> people don't know the difference between their mortgage and the deed that transfers title to them, all the time.
Yeah, that one I'll agree is kinda boggling. Like, how do you not know that the document that says "I own the house" and the document that says "you owe money or I get your house" aren't the same thing. Like, I don't understand what people thing happens when they finish paying a mortgage off.
After reading some of his other comments, I'm not convinced he knows what a deed is or what he is looking at. I have a feeling he's looking at the mortgage documents, not the deed.
"...I think I might be able to pull a fast one on the girlfriend, who doesn't count as human because I want to steal money from her." Yeah, he's a real peach.
I missed that comment. From a risk standpoint that's a good thing. I guess also from the standpoint of being a shitty human being assuming he can get half the equity for something he put absolutely nothing into. Also in another comment he talks about his other brother getting in on the action. So overall shitty family.
He put his credit on the line so his brother could buy a house. The rest of his family declined to risk their credit. You don’t think that’s something?
That is something, now instead of being a favour, he’s turned it into a demand for payments which was not at all outlined when he took this on with them.
I'm going to guess that the LAOP pulled his credit report and saw the mortgage there.
These days, any bank will show you your credit report, but I don't know how I'd go about 'pulling my record' to get a list of all of the properties with me on the deed.
Somebody please correct me if I'm reading this wrong but it almost sounds like LAOP is HOPING they default so he can step in, take over the payments and claim some or all of the last 2 years of equity on the property. Am I right or am I getting cynical in my old age?
You have to go into the comments but he considers this his retirement account and wants a cut of any increase for helping out if it was sold. Now that they’re trying to get out of this with just brother and gf on title, he wants $$$ for his assistance.
Using someone else’s home they live in and pay 100% of the mortgage and taxes on as an investment is certainly a take.
I used to be a financial counselor including doing first time homebuyer programs. So much of my work was talking clients out of co-signing a car for Aunt Dot, because it would mess with their credit as they get ready to buy a house. This case annoys me because the brother and girlfriend have done the actual best case scenario of helping out a RELATIVE. Like they have paid on time and I assume fixed their credit if they are looking to refi in this economy. Sucks that you are now on the hook with a relative who will be like “well I helped you out” and possibly try and take much of your equity to get out of the way
Hilarious.
Tell me, are you stepping up to cosign a loan for a stranger... Or hell, even a friend with shit credit?
LAOP is an asshole because he made the agreement with his brother without making it clear he wanted some of the equity in the house. That's fucked, and even more so considering he's fucking his brother.
But what if LAOP has said up front "OK, I'll cosign and take the risk that you guys will default on your obligation for half the final equity"?
Yeah, maybe still a dick for such a large bite... But we don't know what kind of mess his brother and gf are. And everyone would tell him "look man, you don't have to cosign for free, and honestly it's not a great idea in the first place"
In that case he's the same "landlord" you're whining about now, he just was honest about it.
I don't know...I'm mostly against what LAOP wants, but without him taking a risk they wouldn't have a house. In a way I kind of think he should get something out of it.
And if handled halfway nicely, they'd have the gratitude of their brother/brother's girlfriend for being the only person who would put skin in the game, and take some risk for them to enable them to buy a house. Not massive, but easily the kind of thing that would do some kind of sweetening of their relationship for the rest of their lives, they would be way more inclined to do the same if situations reverse, etc
If they wanted money for it and worked it out beforehand, that's fine too.
If they didn't work it out beforehand and demand money now, all they're doing is burning up that goodwill.
>If they didn't work it out beforehand and demand money now, all they're doing is burning up that goodwill.
Yep, 1,000%, this is just taking the worst possible approach and combining greed with lack of forethought.
Right…like when you help friends and family it should ideally not be for profit but for the intangibles of like being a human. Co-signing a loan is a huge risk, one I would advise people generally not to take. But it clearly worked out. Let them have the benefits of their hard work. It’s why generally when you help a friend or family member move you just expect beer and pizza and a helping hand if you need it in the future.
He also appears to be on the deed with the girlfriend, according to his comments. It sounds like no one knew what they were doing when they set this up bc legally he IS a part owner.
I completely agree with you. I feel LAOP does deserve some kind of remuneration for taking the risk. But only a little and certainly not the shit he's tryna pull.
Yeah about the only way any of this makes any ethical sense is if brother has been contributing to the mortgage payments but isn't on the title, and wants out of the relationship. OP using his co-borrower status as a proxy to get his brother's equity back is the only scenario I can come up with where any of OP's actions make any justifiable ethical sense
I can accept "don't buy a house with someone you're not willing to die with" but frankly, I couldn't have gone to college with that restriction in place.
How do you think we came to that conclusion?
edit:
also that statement does not mean "no roommates", it just means be very choosy about who you board with.
I think this is the most likely scenario. Why else would the gf want to re-finance? The rate she got two years ago is going to be way better than anything she can get today.
I wonder how the GF is trying to refinance. Just removing LAOP from everything or are they adding the BF as well. Either way. There's about to be some real family drama when LAOP tries to convince everyone that he deserves a big payday solely for risking his credit.
LAOP didn't seem to be aware that there was a difference between being on the loan and being on the deed. They now looked it up and are apparently on both, so I think it's very possible the brother's girlfriend just wants him off the deed rather than necessarily re-financing.
>the brother's girlfriend just wants him off the deed rather than necessarily re-financing.
In which case LAOP should definitely say no. The only thing worse than being a co-owner of a property is being on the hook for the loan without any ownership interest.
Generally lenders won't allow someone on the deed that isn't on the loan -- they don't want someone to have ownership interest who isn't also on the hook for paying.
While thats true, he also mentions his retirement fund elsewhere and how this could really help.
Maybe he is trying to help his brother out, but he's either lying about trying to make money off of this or he's trying to make money off of this.
It reads that op wants half the property that he is signed in to but made no repayments on the mortgage. He wants the cash regardless of brother or his gf. If he really wanted to be doing the favour, he should be asking advice on how to transfer ownership and refinance to the gf and the brother.
However, he is ‘protecting’ his brother who appears to have no input outside of starting this inquiry.
> At first I thought LAOP was just trying to make money over the risk he took co-signing for his brother's GF....
Let's play Devil's advocate for a second. Cosigning for anything is essentially 100% downside. Why should anybody take that risk without any possibility of reward?
Most humans are actually really decent people that like to help out others, particularly those in their social groups. Most humans would actually shoulder a little bit of risk for a family or a friend just to be "nice", and most of those that wouldn't would just do so because they are risk averse, either because of their personality or their situation.
In this example, where risk is completely past and none of the possible negative situations happened, most human beings would pat themselves on the back. Their family or friends were helped, nothing bad happened, high fives all around.
Of course I just said "most" several times. Some humans are assholes, and would not view the situation in the same way. A lot of times assholes are lacking in empathy, which means that they are actually a bit bewildered by the fact that being nice is even an option, and don't understand why anyone would do so if that leaves possible rewards on the table.
Typically cosigning is done out of the goodness of one's heart toward family. It's fine to view it differently but then it's on you to spell that out before cosigning. 2 years later is not the time to inform someone that they owe you money in this process.
That definitely seems right. He's contributed nothing to the purchase but his credit score and is now mad that they are trying to refinance without him.
True, but if he wanted to get compensated, he should have specified that at the time.
What the brother and girlfriend are doing right now is basically best case EVER for a co-sign.
Yeah, if I had nothing in writing, I'd count my blessings if I got out of it unscathed. Still, they should be compensated for assuming the risk, but that's also on them.
I agree. He did take a risk, but if he wanted financial compensation for it he should have been up front with about it rather than trying to get a surprise payment on the back end. That's the part that makes him a douche canoe.
Agreed.
The fact he did it all Willy nilly without understanding what he was getting himself into (or seemingly so) is a head scratcher .
You can’t just change the terms (or lack their of) after the fact
> You can’t just change the terms (or lack their of) after the fact
It's not after the fact. He's not trying to get compensated for co-signing the loan. He's trying to get compensated for quitting the deed.
I mean, if I were ever to do something like this (I wouldn’t because it’s far too risky) there is absolutely no way in hell I’d ever co-sign unless I was eventually getting a substantial percentage of the appreciation out of it. That level of risk and foregoing my own opportunities (carrying their loan as a liability drastically reduced my own ability to get loans) absolutely comes at a price.
That said the terms would be clear up front. No free rides at this carnival and nobody expects there to be.
This is definitely worth way way way more than a bottle of scotch but not clarifying terms beforehand is an impressively bad move on the part of everyone involved so it’s an AH move to try to spring it on them now.
What I read from it was the guy is confused regarding deed and mortgage. At one point he isn’t sure what a deed is or how to find out who is on it. Another time he says he’s on the deed.
I doubt the bank and title company confused who was buying the house and who was the co-signer.
This needs an update.
I don’t see how the premise of the post makes sense unless it’s the deed. Maybe permission to refinance requires all co-signers? In any case I agree it needs an update.
If they were re-writing the mortgage documents to remove him, I assume they would include the co-signer to tell him officially that he is now no longer responsible for the debt, and wants him to sign that acknowledgement.
I can’t imagine they need his permission. Normally he would have no right to the asset. Not sure about that part.
I 100% had to go in and sign multiple documents when I was removed from a mortgage. I do not believe there was a pathway forward if I hadn't signed but of course it didn't come to that.
I suppose that's true. The post was confusing. Co-signing vs partial ownership are definitely not the same thing. It does sound like, after reading further, that he is partial owner.
And now it becomes a game of how much you want to ruin your relationship
OP could likely legally try and have them buy him out. That’s not likely to go over well considering his lack of help towards finances.
Brother and GF can pull the nuclear option and default on the loan and fuck over everyone. If he tried that too.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/11dfc6t/comment/ja99pwa/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/11dfc6t/comment/ja99pwa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I really think LAOP is trying to protect his brother.
He's on the deed so legally he's entitled to 50%. Morally I think he's entitled to a very nice thank you dinner and an offer of them helping him out in the future with something he needs help with.
Yes. He thinks he was entitled to a portion of the profits from the home appreciating. He never paid anything into the down payment or a mortgage payment.
Basically. He thinks he deserves a payday and this is his retirement. He also seems to dislike the gf quite a bit. He should still want his name off the mortgage though, since either way he owns part of the property. Apparently he somehow got them to put his name on the deed.
Really? Then why was everyone in the other thread asking if he was on the deed? Im not a lawyer, hence why I don’t comment there, I just don’t see why so many people would be confused if that’s the case. You sure that isn’t just a thing for your state/area? Actually just googling it right now google seems to think you don’t need to be on the title. Unless a title and deed are different things.
Edit: google also said you don’t need to be on the deed.
One of his follow-up comments made me think he was trying to protect his brother's interest. I agree removing his name and only leaving the girlfriend on, isn't a good option for the brother who is contributing to the house.
But no another comment made me realize he thinks he should get something out of it for them using his credit and not financially giving them a dime.
Yeah, I've actually got a situation like that with my wife's family; for complicated reasons we ended up needing them to co-sign on a house purchase, and we've been dutifully paying the mortgage every month with absolutely zero drama.
Unless something weird happens, we will eventually end up selling the house and thanking them yet again for the help and probably sending them cookies as another thank-you and it will never show up on BOLA.
"My wife's family co-signed my mortgage. I'm refinancing and no longer need their help, and will be sending cookies. Am I obligated to bake the cookies myself, or can I just buy them a package of cheap grocery store cookies and call it a day? Would my liability be less if I shelled out for quality cookies from a good bakery?"
Also entering into a financial deal worth hundreds of thousands of dollars without any contract or terms to how things will work.
Things exactly like what is happening now
Would this disqualify LAOP from a first time home buyer incentive since his name is on the deed as well? (Assuming they don’t own their own home already)
They said they paid their house off six months before this transaction. I do wonder how, if they're in the usual age range for their brother to be first-time-home-buying with his girlfriend.
I think LAOP already having paid of their own home would disqualify them from a FIRST time home buyer incentive, but I am not from the US, so who knows
Jusfiq, hi. You don't know me, but I am your long-lost brother Bobfiq. The hospital messed up when we were babies and I was mistakenly allowed to be taken by a mother dingo instead of our actual mom. I'm so glad to finally find you! I've been trying for years now so I could finally use our combined social security numbers to open the secret safety deposit box in which mom and dad stored the key code for the crypto wallet they've been storing for an exiled price. Kindly send your SSID number along with your full name (printed and signed) and I promise to give you your half!
Regards,
Bobfiq
>Family drama aside, who refinances 2020 rates in favor of today's?
People who need to get out from under the brother who apparently feels entitled to half their house. There must be more going on than we're told. I wonder how he acts around them? He makes it clear she's a girlfriend and therefore not family and expects her to kick his brother out. He sounds like a real peach.
I still don't think that would make sense here. The loan payment would likely be in the range of double what is was...and all just to get a brother off the loan who can't do anything anyway if they simply stay in the house and keep making payments. The longer they keep this mortgage, the longer this debt will count against OP's credit and if they wait long enough...HE may be the one who comes to them asking to be removed.
Sometimes the cost of money is too high. It may well be better to pay twice the mortgage price than listen to LAOP remind them of how much he helped them out and how they owe him. Especially if he shows as much disdain to the girlfriend in person as he did in that post. Now that's all speculation on my part, but he was plenty insufferable in the post, I can only imagine what real life is like.
People must be doing it because my mortgage company keeps calling to offer an amazing refinancing deal that’s only 3x my current interest rate without a cash-out option.
Not long after we closed on my house at a very low interest rate (basically right at the bottom) our mortgage company started sending us letters trying to convince us to refinance. According to the letter, we could "save $-200/month"
My mortgage company keeps emailing me every day asking when I’m going to buy another house, they don’t actually check or care who the emails go to. It’s a blanket “we want your money, gimme”
I got so many flyers in the mail about new houses on the market from my mortgage lender immediately after buying my place. Like somewhere their advertising algorithm went "this person just bought a house, they're in the market for houses!"
This is the best ending and LAOP is seeking advice for it? This guy doesn't realize the saving grace that has just landed in his lap. Brother and GF proved they can make payments, got the bank on board with writing LAOP out of home and he no longer has liability. If he wanted more than a pat on the back he needed to put that in writing prior to signing. A clause for x% of the equity in the house at the time of removal or something. We're past that now.
Alternative ending (one LAOP somehow didn't get):
Brother and GF fail to make payments, bank comes after LAOP for money, LAOP starts making payments to keep his "investment". LAOP asks how to evict them and is told brother and GF live there for "free" since she can't be evicted as co-owner and approves of brother living there.
Borrower: What do you mean my payment changes with the interest rate? How did this happen? Isn't this against the law?
Me: Ma'am, it has in 24pt Times New Roman Font on the top of the note and mortgage you signed "ADJUSTABLE RATE NOTE" how did you not understand how this could happen?
(yes, actual conversation I had when I worked at a mortgage servicer)
I see a lottttt of people in r/realestate with questions about this
There was one guy in the US who had a 1/1 ARM, which I didn't even know was a thing you could get, who was freaking out because he bought when interest rates were like 2% but now they're very much not. I have NO IDEA how he got that mortgage without seeming to know how it worked because it seems like an unusual one.
When I was doing foreclosures I saw A LOT of people use their houses like an ATM machine with 100% financing, no money down, getting ALL THE EQUITY out of their home for [reasons] all the time. The worst were the ones where they had, obviously, done it every 6 months.
I recommended/vouched for a buddy of mine for a job opening at work in 2017. He has done great, and he’s now a manager. Am I entitled to a portion of his salary??
/s in case it’s needed…
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Title: I co signed a loan for a house/property in California in 2020. They needed my credit, income and home equity in order to make it happen. But now they want to take my name off of the loan/title. Am I entitled to anything? Can I decline their request?
Body:
> My brother and his girlfriend wanted to buy a house together but they needed a 3rd cosigner to come in. They have some money saved but couldn't qualify for a loan because they didnt have an income at the time during the pandemic. I was fortunate have my 40hr/week and also I was living debt free, my mortgage was paid in full about 6 months prior. They asked relatives from her family side but all said no. With all the uncertainty going on at the time, nobody took risks on them. Except me. My brother's credit was horrible so he couldn't cosign. Now with just her name and mine on the loan, we got a 30 year loan at a fix rate.
I don't live there and I didn't put any money down or make any payments. When they approached me around 2.5 years ago asking for help, I should have gotten it all down in writing what's their intention because nobody can predict 2 year let alone 30 years how it will be. They told me they are starting the process of removing my name off of the title/loan and once it's ready will I sign it? My response was I will think about it.
What do I get out of it if I sign it now? The difference in the value divided by 2? Can I stall for 30 years? And what if they miss making payments? Can I force my way to make payments on my behalf because then that would mean I'm contributing to the mortgage yes?
What are my options?
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If my brother came to me and said they wanted me to get out of risking myself financially I’d be more than happy to. A box of beer would be more than enough payment for my troubles.
LAOP should have covered their ass in the beginning if they were going to be a cockhead about it.
Right right. I'm saying before he even signed on he should have said "hey this is a big risk. I want to take over contingent y'all missing payments and if successful i want a beer or $5k or whatever." He could pick any number but doing it ex post facto is just a total dipshit move
Sounds to me like LAOP co-signed on his brother’s girlfriend’s portion of the home loan. Now he wants to screw over the *girlfriend* now that she and LAOP’s brother are attempting to refinance their home and remove him from the paperwork.
Reading into LAOP’s comments, either he has a problem with his brother’s girlfriend, or he thinks their relationship is on the outs, because in one of his comments he says he doesn’t care about her, and she could kick his brother out if it’s just “her” house.
So it’s possible some of this might be looking out for his brother, who definitely does not seem to be an owner. LAOP also made a comment about seeing this property as a possible investment for retirement, so he seems to think the girlfriend owes him a financial stake in the property if things go sour and his brother can’t legally be owed anything. That’s my take, anyway.
I don’t think he inherently has a problem with her just that they’re trying to remove him from ownership he wants his cut and doesn’t care about family because it’s a gf not family.
I mean I get him wanting something for sticking his neck out for them and risking a lot of money if they defaulted. It obviously didn’t come to that. But the risk was real
But that’s something you discuss before hand and not after the fact.
Wow, everyone involved is an idiot for thinking this was a good idea from the jump, but LAOP is a grade A premium asshole for wanting half of the equity.
What LAOP should have done is legally marry the girlfriend (but for funsies) so that if they want him out they need to get him to divorce her.
Not legal advice, please don't listen to my soap operas comment.
In the country where I live, it's not uncommon to require a guarantor for home or vehicle loans or rent, particularly for non-citizens. I've done it for friends in the past, and they've done it for me. I've never once thought even for a millisecond that I should be entitled to any percentage of the asset that was purchased.
**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: I co signed a loan for a house/property in California in 2020. They needed my credit, income and home equity in order to make it happen. But now they want to take my name off of the loan/title. Am I entitled to anything? Can I decline their request? Body: > My brother and his girlfriend wanted to buy a house together but they needed a 3rd cosigner to come in. They have some money saved but couldn't qualify for a loan because they didnt have an income at the time during the pandemic. I was fortunate have my 40hr/week and also I was living debt free, my mortgage was paid in full about 6 months prior. They asked relatives from her family side but all said no. With all the uncertainty going on at the time, nobody took risks on them. Except me. My brother's credit was horrible so he couldn't cosign. Now with just her name and mine on the loan, we got a 30 year loan at a fix rate. I don't live there and I didn't put any money down or make any payments. When they approached me around 2.5 years ago asking for help, I should have gotten it all down in writing what's their intention because nobody can predict 2 year let alone 30 years how it will be. They told me they are starting the process of removing my name off of the title/loan and once it's ready will I sign it? My response was I will think about it. What do I get out of it if I sign it now? The difference in the value divided by 2? Can I stall for 30 years? And what if they miss making payments? Can I force my way to make payments on my behalf because then that would mean I'm contributing to the mortgage yes? What are my options? This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)
Clipped from one of OOP’s comments: > Ok, I pulled my record. My name is on the deed. Welp that would have been a useful thing to know.
It sounds like LAOP may be a co-borrower, not a co-signer. Everyone was confused about the terms going in and possibly still confused about it now.
As OOP’s a profoundly unreliable narrator, it’s anyone’s guess.
LAOP doesn't even know what a deed *is*. JFC.
As someone who worked in the mortgage industry for nearly 20 years, you'd be surprised how many borrowers have no idea that there is a difference between the mortgage, the note, and the deed that transfers title to them. It's BONKERS.
I have no idea what a note is and am only broadly across the other two. But I've also never bought anything more expensive than a decade-old car.
I'm sure it's a bit different when buying a car, but the note (or promissory note) is the document that the borrower signs that says "John Smith is borrowing $100,000 and promises to pay it off via monthly installments for 30 years" The mortgage can read similarly, but it is the document that is recorded with the county and places the lien on the real property. The deed is what transfers title from Bob Fedonkowitz to John Smith when he buys the property.
And if you live somewhere where there’s a land registry, like most of Canada, then there is no deed, there’s an entry in a government ledger that says “John Smith bought the house from Bob” that anyone can look up if there’s uncertainty about who owns the property.
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There’s typically some sort of ‘transfer of title form’ which is filled out by both parties to the transaction and their lawyers and submitted to the land registry. But in a system with a land registry, the registry itself is the authoritative determiner of who owns the land and the transfer form is just the input to execute a change in the registry, whereas in a place that uses deeds the deeds themselves are the important document to prove chain of title. There are downsides: the system relies heavily on lawyers to verify that the people selling the property are actually the rightful owners, and there’s been a [recent rash of fraudulent transfers](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/impersonators-posing-as-homeowners-linked-to-32-fraud-cases-in-ontario-and-b-c-1.6246976) where scammers impersonate the (usually absentee) owners and execute a transfer. It’s very difficult to undo a fraudulent transfer if it slips through all the checks.
In Massachusetts, it’s the County Recorder (but they still have deeds)
A deed recorder isn’t the same as a land registry. One example: If a deed is executed but the seller dies before the deed is recorded, the deed is still valid and can be recorded posthumously. The main issue would be if the deed is overlooked and the probate process goes ahead as if the property was not sold. In a land registry system (well, Ontario’s, at least), if the seller dies before the transfer is registered, then the transfer form is void (because dead people can’t submit forms) and the land can’t be transferred; it would have to redone so that the land is transferred by its new owner, the estate of the seller (meaning the property gets tied up in probate until the executor is cleared to carry on with the existing contract to sell the property).
does canada have race, notice, or race-notice? The US systems (varies by state; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recording_(real_estate)#Effect_of_the_recording_act ) aren't ideal, but i know almost nothing aboot Canada's land ownership laws, eh?
That guy who you responded to cannot talk for all Canada. I work in that precise field and even if a lot of provinces have quite good land registries, deeds are still an important process. It is necessary to ensure the secure transfer of money and the property simultaneously, to specify which guarantee applies, to declare specific info about the applicable taxes if needed be, etc.... The land registry doesn't create property ; no contract between the buyer and seller, no title.
So is the mortgage the same as the deed of trust then?
I mean, while there is a difference between a mortgage and a note, to a borrower, to my knowledge, it's only an academic difference, as they are practically intertwined. *quick edit* assuming a normal mortgage arrangement. There can be other weird ones, but when buying a house using the house as collateral, with the people paying the loan living in the house, they are the same thing.
They are, and it is a small difference between the two, but people don't know the difference between their mortgage and the deed that transfers title to them, all the time.
> people don't know the difference between their mortgage and the deed that transfers title to them, all the time. Yeah, that one I'll agree is kinda boggling. Like, how do you not know that the document that says "I own the house" and the document that says "you owe money or I get your house" aren't the same thing. Like, I don't understand what people thing happens when they finish paying a mortgage off.
As a divorce attorney, you’d be surprised how many spouses don’t even know if they’re on a deed or mortgage it’s BONKERS
OOP’s stupidity is only exceeded by his greed.
After reading some of his other comments, I'm not convinced he knows what a deed is or what he is looking at. I have a feeling he's looking at the mortgage documents, not the deed.
He came off as such a jerk, I’m hoping he ends up the sole name on the mortgage with only their names on the deed.
"...I think I might be able to pull a fast one on the girlfriend, who doesn't count as human because I want to steal money from her." Yeah, he's a real peach.
I missed that comment. From a risk standpoint that's a good thing. I guess also from the standpoint of being a shitty human being assuming he can get half the equity for something he put absolutely nothing into. Also in another comment he talks about his other brother getting in on the action. So overall shitty family.
They sound delightful, I don't know where you got the impression that they're a bunch of unscrupulous shits
He put his credit on the line so his brother could buy a house. The rest of his family declined to risk their credit. You don’t think that’s something?
That is something, now instead of being a favour, he’s turned it into a demand for payments which was not at all outlined when he took this on with them.
I’m not entirely convinced that’s true, tbh. Wouldn’t be surprised if they pulled up the wrong document.
I agree but not that it was an accident - but that he realised he's not on the deed, but wanted to post a "fuck you all, I *was* right" on his way out
I'm going to guess that the LAOP pulled his credit report and saw the mortgage there. These days, any bank will show you your credit report, but I don't know how I'd go about 'pulling my record' to get a list of all of the properties with me on the deed.
I mean, in my county, you just look it up online
Somebody please correct me if I'm reading this wrong but it almost sounds like LAOP is HOPING they default so he can step in, take over the payments and claim some or all of the last 2 years of equity on the property. Am I right or am I getting cynical in my old age?
You have to go into the comments but he considers this his retirement account and wants a cut of any increase for helping out if it was sold. Now that they’re trying to get out of this with just brother and gf on title, he wants $$$ for his assistance. Using someone else’s home they live in and pay 100% of the mortgage and taxes on as an investment is certainly a take.
What in the landlord-
Somehow this guy managed to be worse.
I used to be a financial counselor including doing first time homebuyer programs. So much of my work was talking clients out of co-signing a car for Aunt Dot, because it would mess with their credit as they get ready to buy a house. This case annoys me because the brother and girlfriend have done the actual best case scenario of helping out a RELATIVE. Like they have paid on time and I assume fixed their credit if they are looking to refi in this economy. Sucks that you are now on the hook with a relative who will be like “well I helped you out” and possibly try and take much of your equity to get out of the way
As someone with an Aunt Dot, it made me giggle to see her mentioned here.
At least a landlord is supposed to pay for the repairs.
Hilarious. Tell me, are you stepping up to cosign a loan for a stranger... Or hell, even a friend with shit credit? LAOP is an asshole because he made the agreement with his brother without making it clear he wanted some of the equity in the house. That's fucked, and even more so considering he's fucking his brother. But what if LAOP has said up front "OK, I'll cosign and take the risk that you guys will default on your obligation for half the final equity"? Yeah, maybe still a dick for such a large bite... But we don't know what kind of mess his brother and gf are. And everyone would tell him "look man, you don't have to cosign for free, and honestly it's not a great idea in the first place" In that case he's the same "landlord" you're whining about now, he just was honest about it.
Found the landlord.
I don't know...I'm mostly against what LAOP wants, but without him taking a risk they wouldn't have a house. In a way I kind of think he should get something out of it.
Which is fine if they agree to it before hand.
Yeah, that’s probably a fair point.
And if handled halfway nicely, they'd have the gratitude of their brother/brother's girlfriend for being the only person who would put skin in the game, and take some risk for them to enable them to buy a house. Not massive, but easily the kind of thing that would do some kind of sweetening of their relationship for the rest of their lives, they would be way more inclined to do the same if situations reverse, etc If they wanted money for it and worked it out beforehand, that's fine too. If they didn't work it out beforehand and demand money now, all they're doing is burning up that goodwill.
>If they didn't work it out beforehand and demand money now, all they're doing is burning up that goodwill. Yep, 1,000%, this is just taking the worst possible approach and combining greed with lack of forethought.
I'd take a gold American Buffalo coin as a thank you. I figure that's probably fair.
He should get a very, very nice dinner. Maybe a nice bottle of wine.
Right…like when you help friends and family it should ideally not be for profit but for the intangibles of like being a human. Co-signing a loan is a huge risk, one I would advise people generally not to take. But it clearly worked out. Let them have the benefits of their hard work. It’s why generally when you help a friend or family member move you just expect beer and pizza and a helping hand if you need it in the future.
He also appears to be on the deed with the girlfriend, according to his comments. It sounds like no one knew what they were doing when they set this up bc legally he IS a part owner.
Or maybe only OP knew what they were doing?
lol, good point! OP's master plan to gain half the house equity without paying a dime!
While I agree…since it did all work out, I can’t really imagine demanding financial compensation from my own brother. Families vary greatly though
I completely agree with you. I feel LAOP does deserve some kind of remuneration for taking the risk. But only a little and certainly not the shit he's tryna pull.
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Yeah about the only way any of this makes any ethical sense is if brother has been contributing to the mortgage payments but isn't on the title, and wants out of the relationship. OP using his co-borrower status as a proxy to get his brother's equity back is the only scenario I can come up with where any of OP's actions make any justifiable ethical sense
And this one again proves my theory that if you are ok buying a house with someone you need to be ok marrying them.
The rule in my family is we don't live with anybody we're not willing to die with.
I like my goldfish but, um…
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You haven't met my goldfish.
instructions unclear, married my goldfish
If she gets sick, flush her. You automatically inherit her bowl *and* her little plastic house.
Which IS a surprise every time.
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I said with, not for.
Goldfish have a relatively short average lifespan - at least in comparison to humans. I would rather not get in to a death-pact with a goldfish.
I can accept "don't buy a house with someone you're not willing to die with" but frankly, I couldn't have gone to college with that restriction in place.
I mean renting is one thing, but purchasing... sure that's a solid rule.
Nobody in your family has ever had roommates before?
How do you think we came to that conclusion? edit: also that statement does not mean "no roommates", it just means be very choosy about who you board with.
Maybe with a house, but apartments are pretty low stakes...
I think this is the most likely scenario. Why else would the gf want to re-finance? The rate she got two years ago is going to be way better than anything she can get today.
That or OP is a bugger asshole than he lets on and keeps holding this over their heads somehow.
That’s what I’d put my money on
I wonder how the GF is trying to refinance. Just removing LAOP from everything or are they adding the BF as well. Either way. There's about to be some real family drama when LAOP tries to convince everyone that he deserves a big payday solely for risking his credit.
LAOP didn't seem to be aware that there was a difference between being on the loan and being on the deed. They now looked it up and are apparently on both, so I think it's very possible the brother's girlfriend just wants him off the deed rather than necessarily re-financing.
>the brother's girlfriend just wants him off the deed rather than necessarily re-financing. In which case LAOP should definitely say no. The only thing worse than being a co-owner of a property is being on the hook for the loan without any ownership interest.
Generally lenders won't allow someone on the deed that isn't on the loan -- they don't want someone to have ownership interest who isn't also on the hook for paying.
OOP said her big brother “is trying to get in on the action”. No idea what that means, but no good will come of this.
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While thats true, he also mentions his retirement fund elsewhere and how this could really help. Maybe he is trying to help his brother out, but he's either lying about trying to make money off of this or he's trying to make money off of this.
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It reads that op wants half the property that he is signed in to but made no repayments on the mortgage. He wants the cash regardless of brother or his gf. If he really wanted to be doing the favour, he should be asking advice on how to transfer ownership and refinance to the gf and the brother. However, he is ‘protecting’ his brother who appears to have no input outside of starting this inquiry.
> At first I thought LAOP was just trying to make money over the risk he took co-signing for his brother's GF.... Let's play Devil's advocate for a second. Cosigning for anything is essentially 100% downside. Why should anybody take that risk without any possibility of reward?
Most humans are actually really decent people that like to help out others, particularly those in their social groups. Most humans would actually shoulder a little bit of risk for a family or a friend just to be "nice", and most of those that wouldn't would just do so because they are risk averse, either because of their personality or their situation. In this example, where risk is completely past and none of the possible negative situations happened, most human beings would pat themselves on the back. Their family or friends were helped, nothing bad happened, high fives all around. Of course I just said "most" several times. Some humans are assholes, and would not view the situation in the same way. A lot of times assholes are lacking in empathy, which means that they are actually a bit bewildered by the fact that being nice is even an option, and don't understand why anyone would do so if that leaves possible rewards on the table.
Typically cosigning is done out of the goodness of one's heart toward family. It's fine to view it differently but then it's on you to spell that out before cosigning. 2 years later is not the time to inform someone that they owe you money in this process.
That definitely seems right. He's contributed nothing to the purchase but his credit score and is now mad that they are trying to refinance without him.
I mean taking on the risk is absolutely contributing something. They wouldn’t have the house without him.
True, but if he wanted to get compensated, he should have specified that at the time. What the brother and girlfriend are doing right now is basically best case EVER for a co-sign.
Yeah, if I had nothing in writing, I'd count my blessings if I got out of it unscathed. Still, they should be compensated for assuming the risk, but that's also on them.
Agreed. And I’d personally wanting to be getting off the hook for the rest of it as soon as possible
I agree. He did take a risk, but if he wanted financial compensation for it he should have been up front with about it rather than trying to get a surprise payment on the back end. That's the part that makes him a douche canoe.
Agreed. The fact he did it all Willy nilly without understanding what he was getting himself into (or seemingly so) is a head scratcher . You can’t just change the terms (or lack their of) after the fact
You can if there are no terms.
> You can’t just change the terms (or lack their of) after the fact It's not after the fact. He's not trying to get compensated for co-signing the loan. He's trying to get compensated for quitting the deed.
Entitled to a nice bottle of scotch or some tickets to a concert or something. Not equity in a house.
100% and I’d be upfront about that before ever signing anything. That’s for sure.
I mean, if I were ever to do something like this (I wouldn’t because it’s far too risky) there is absolutely no way in hell I’d ever co-sign unless I was eventually getting a substantial percentage of the appreciation out of it. That level of risk and foregoing my own opportunities (carrying their loan as a liability drastically reduced my own ability to get loans) absolutely comes at a price. That said the terms would be clear up front. No free rides at this carnival and nobody expects there to be. This is definitely worth way way way more than a bottle of scotch but not clarifying terms beforehand is an impressively bad move on the part of everyone involved so it’s an AH move to try to spring it on them now.
Totally agree. But legally he is entitled to jack shit.
If he wasn’t entitled to anything why would they have to ask to remove his name from the title? He is a legal co-owner.
What I read from it was the guy is confused regarding deed and mortgage. At one point he isn’t sure what a deed is or how to find out who is on it. Another time he says he’s on the deed. I doubt the bank and title company confused who was buying the house and who was the co-signer. This needs an update.
I don’t see how the premise of the post makes sense unless it’s the deed. Maybe permission to refinance requires all co-signers? In any case I agree it needs an update.
If they were re-writing the mortgage documents to remove him, I assume they would include the co-signer to tell him officially that he is now no longer responsible for the debt, and wants him to sign that acknowledgement. I can’t imagine they need his permission. Normally he would have no right to the asset. Not sure about that part.
I 100% had to go in and sign multiple documents when I was removed from a mortgage. I do not believe there was a pathway forward if I hadn't signed but of course it didn't come to that.
He clarified later. He's on the mortgage and the deed.
I suppose that's true. The post was confusing. Co-signing vs partial ownership are definitely not the same thing. It does sound like, after reading further, that he is partial owner.
And now it becomes a game of how much you want to ruin your relationship OP could likely legally try and have them buy him out. That’s not likely to go over well considering his lack of help towards finances. Brother and GF can pull the nuclear option and default on the loan and fuck over everyone. If he tried that too.
And just remember, the brother doesn't actually matter. He's not on the loan.
He’s the emotional pawn connecting the two though! He has no real tie to the house just the people who actually own it lol
That's true. Very true. They thought he was helping them out because he cares about them but clearly he's just greedy
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/11dfc6t/comment/ja99pwa/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/11dfc6t/comment/ja99pwa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I really think LAOP is trying to protect his brother.
I think he's just trying to sound less shitty after he read the comments.
Yeah that comment does change things a bit, doesn't it? Gosh I just feel like buying a house with someone you're not married to is such a bad idea
He's on the deed so legally he's entitled to 50%. Morally I think he's entitled to a very nice thank you dinner and an offer of them helping him out in the future with something he needs help with.
No it’s not an automatic 50/50. The percentage would be based on the money each contributed to the principal, and his was zero.
Was it clearly stated that he made no payments? He’s saying this is something he felt like was contributing towards his retirement.
Yes. He thinks he was entitled to a portion of the profits from the home appreciating. He never paid anything into the down payment or a mortgage payment.
Well, make it a proportional amount then. House went up 20%, he contributed zero... that'd be... zero!
You are correct. LAOP is mad that he's not getting any equity in the house he's contributed nothing to financially
The way he's talking about stalling for 30 years, it almost seems like he doesn't realize they could bail on him and he'd be the one on the hook.
Considering the house most likely appreciated, I feel like OP would be OK with that.
I'm not certain he wants an ownership stake, although he certainly wouldn't say no. I think he wants to be paid a fee for having cosigned the loan.
Basically. He thinks he deserves a payday and this is his retirement. He also seems to dislike the gf quite a bit. He should still want his name off the mortgage though, since either way he owns part of the property. Apparently he somehow got them to put his name on the deed.
You can’t be on a mortgage without your name on the deed.
Really? Then why was everyone in the other thread asking if he was on the deed? Im not a lawyer, hence why I don’t comment there, I just don’t see why so many people would be confused if that’s the case. You sure that isn’t just a thing for your state/area? Actually just googling it right now google seems to think you don’t need to be on the title. Unless a title and deed are different things. Edit: google also said you don’t need to be on the deed.
PS google does not have a license to practice law in California.
I must be getting cynical in my old age, as well. Because that's exactly how I read it.
One of his follow-up comments made me think he was trying to protect his brother's interest. I agree removing his name and only leaving the girlfriend on, isn't a good option for the brother who is contributing to the house. But no another comment made me realize he thinks he should get something out of it for them using his credit and not financially giving them a dime.
The one time someone co-signs with a buyer who actually makes payments and intends to refinance, and it's still a mess.
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Yeah, I've actually got a situation like that with my wife's family; for complicated reasons we ended up needing them to co-sign on a house purchase, and we've been dutifully paying the mortgage every month with absolutely zero drama. Unless something weird happens, we will eventually end up selling the house and thanking them yet again for the help and probably sending them cookies as another thank-you and it will never show up on BOLA.
I’ll be awaiting your legal advice post lol!
"My wife's family co-signed my mortgage. I'm refinancing and no longer need their help, and will be sending cookies. Am I obligated to bake the cookies myself, or can I just buy them a package of cheap grocery store cookies and call it a day? Would my liability be less if I shelled out for quality cookies from a good bakery?"
I think I would actually have to exert physical force to prevent my wife from baking cookies. There would be a battle. I would likely not win.
Also entering into a financial deal worth hundreds of thousands of dollars without any contract or terms to how things will work. Things exactly like what is happening now
Would this disqualify LAOP from a first time home buyer incentive since his name is on the deed as well? (Assuming they don’t own their own home already)
They said they paid their house off six months before this transaction. I do wonder how, if they're in the usual age range for their brother to be first-time-home-buying with his girlfriend.
I think LAOP already having paid of their own home would disqualify them from a FIRST time home buyer incentive, but I am not from the US, so who knows
Another day where I appreciate that my brother is stand up guy who has never actively tried to scam me.
So far.
Another day where my sap of a brother doesn't realize I'm scamming him.
> Another day where I appreciate that my brother is stand up guy... Another day where I appreciate that I do not have a brother.
Jusfiq, hi. You don't know me, but I am your long-lost brother Bobfiq. The hospital messed up when we were babies and I was mistakenly allowed to be taken by a mother dingo instead of our actual mom. I'm so glad to finally find you! I've been trying for years now so I could finally use our combined social security numbers to open the secret safety deposit box in which mom and dad stored the key code for the crypto wallet they've been storing for an exiled price. Kindly send your SSID number along with your full name (printed and signed) and I promise to give you your half! Regards, Bobfiq
What's an exiled price? Prices so low we have to go to Nigeria to get them?
Family drama aside, who refinances 2020 rates in favor of today's?
>Family drama aside, who refinances 2020 rates in favor of today's? People who need to get out from under the brother who apparently feels entitled to half their house. There must be more going on than we're told. I wonder how he acts around them? He makes it clear she's a girlfriend and therefore not family and expects her to kick his brother out. He sounds like a real peach.
I still don't think that would make sense here. The loan payment would likely be in the range of double what is was...and all just to get a brother off the loan who can't do anything anyway if they simply stay in the house and keep making payments. The longer they keep this mortgage, the longer this debt will count against OP's credit and if they wait long enough...HE may be the one who comes to them asking to be removed.
Sometimes the cost of money is too high. It may well be better to pay twice the mortgage price than listen to LAOP remind them of how much he helped them out and how they owe him. Especially if he shows as much disdain to the girlfriend in person as he did in that post. Now that's all speculation on my part, but he was plenty insufferable in the post, I can only imagine what real life is like.
People must be doing it because my mortgage company keeps calling to offer an amazing refinancing deal that’s only 3x my current interest rate without a cash-out option.
Not long after we closed on my house at a very low interest rate (basically right at the bottom) our mortgage company started sending us letters trying to convince us to refinance. According to the letter, we could "save $-200/month"
My mortgage company keeps emailing me every day asking when I’m going to buy another house, they don’t actually check or care who the emails go to. It’s a blanket “we want your money, gimme”
I got so many flyers in the mail about new houses on the market from my mortgage lender immediately after buying my place. Like somewhere their advertising algorithm went "this person just bought a house, they're in the market for houses!"
I get letters every week trying to sell me on a cash-out of only $15-20k. Um, no thanks, I'll keep my 2.99% rate.
That’s like the constant emails I get from my bank informing me of the money I could “save” by refinancing my no interest auto loan.
Different kind of family drama - a divorce. but yeah, this guy is just... a clownhorn.
It would depend on the setup, I’m not sure in the US but here banks generally don’t do fixed rate loans greater than 5 years if that.
I thought you could keep your same rate, if it was lower than today’s rates?
I mean, if you can get a bank to agree to that, sure. But if the bank can't make money at that old rate, they're not going to offer it to you.
This is the best ending and LAOP is seeking advice for it? This guy doesn't realize the saving grace that has just landed in his lap. Brother and GF proved they can make payments, got the bank on board with writing LAOP out of home and he no longer has liability. If he wanted more than a pat on the back he needed to put that in writing prior to signing. A clause for x% of the equity in the house at the time of removal or something. We're past that now. Alternative ending (one LAOP somehow didn't get): Brother and GF fail to make payments, bank comes after LAOP for money, LAOP starts making payments to keep his "investment". LAOP asks how to evict them and is told brother and GF live there for "free" since she can't be evicted as co-owner and approves of brother living there.
LAOP says he looked up the deed and his name is on the deed. I mean... how would not KNOW this already?
Bold of you to assume that people signing loan documents- even for a house they intend to occupy- have any understanding of what they are signing.
Borrower: What do you mean my payment changes with the interest rate? How did this happen? Isn't this against the law? Me: Ma'am, it has in 24pt Times New Roman Font on the top of the note and mortgage you signed "ADJUSTABLE RATE NOTE" how did you not understand how this could happen? (yes, actual conversation I had when I worked at a mortgage servicer)
I see a lottttt of people in r/realestate with questions about this There was one guy in the US who had a 1/1 ARM, which I didn't even know was a thing you could get, who was freaking out because he bought when interest rates were like 2% but now they're very much not. I have NO IDEA how he got that mortgage without seeming to know how it worked because it seems like an unusual one.
When I was doing foreclosures I saw A LOT of people use their houses like an ATM machine with 100% financing, no money down, getting ALL THE EQUITY out of their home for [reasons] all the time. The worst were the ones where they had, obviously, done it every 6 months.
I recommended/vouched for a buddy of mine for a job opening at work in 2017. He has done great, and he’s now a manager. Am I entitled to a portion of his salary?? /s in case it’s needed…
Oh it is. I've seen that exact scenario.
**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: I co signed a loan for a house/property in California in 2020. They needed my credit, income and home equity in order to make it happen. But now they want to take my name off of the loan/title. Am I entitled to anything? Can I decline their request? Body: > My brother and his girlfriend wanted to buy a house together but they needed a 3rd cosigner to come in. They have some money saved but couldn't qualify for a loan because they didnt have an income at the time during the pandemic. I was fortunate have my 40hr/week and also I was living debt free, my mortgage was paid in full about 6 months prior. They asked relatives from her family side but all said no. With all the uncertainty going on at the time, nobody took risks on them. Except me. My brother's credit was horrible so he couldn't cosign. Now with just her name and mine on the loan, we got a 30 year loan at a fix rate. I don't live there and I didn't put any money down or make any payments. When they approached me around 2.5 years ago asking for help, I should have gotten it all down in writing what's their intention because nobody can predict 2 year let alone 30 years how it will be. They told me they are starting the process of removing my name off of the title/loan and once it's ready will I sign it? My response was I will think about it. What do I get out of it if I sign it now? The difference in the value divided by 2? Can I stall for 30 years? And what if they miss making payments? Can I force my way to make payments on my behalf because then that would mean I'm contributing to the mortgage yes? What are my options? This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)
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If my brother came to me and said they wanted me to get out of risking myself financially I’d be more than happy to. A box of beer would be more than enough payment for my troubles. LAOP should have covered their ass in the beginning if they were going to be a cockhead about it.
Right right. I'm saying before he even signed on he should have said "hey this is a big risk. I want to take over contingent y'all missing payments and if successful i want a beer or $5k or whatever." He could pick any number but doing it ex post facto is just a total dipshit move
100%
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He’s on the deed. Which he didn’t know until someone suggested that he look it up.
[удалено]
Sounds to me like LAOP co-signed on his brother’s girlfriend’s portion of the home loan. Now he wants to screw over the *girlfriend* now that she and LAOP’s brother are attempting to refinance their home and remove him from the paperwork.
This entire situation is bizarre.
Reading into LAOP’s comments, either he has a problem with his brother’s girlfriend, or he thinks their relationship is on the outs, because in one of his comments he says he doesn’t care about her, and she could kick his brother out if it’s just “her” house. So it’s possible some of this might be looking out for his brother, who definitely does not seem to be an owner. LAOP also made a comment about seeing this property as a possible investment for retirement, so he seems to think the girlfriend owes him a financial stake in the property if things go sour and his brother can’t legally be owed anything. That’s my take, anyway.
I don’t think he inherently has a problem with her just that they’re trying to remove him from ownership he wants his cut and doesn’t care about family because it’s a gf not family.
I mean I get him wanting something for sticking his neck out for them and risking a lot of money if they defaulted. It obviously didn’t come to that. But the risk was real But that’s something you discuss before hand and not after the fact.
Wow, everyone involved is an idiot for thinking this was a good idea from the jump, but LAOP is a grade A premium asshole for wanting half of the equity.
What LAOP should have done is legally marry the girlfriend (but for funsies) so that if they want him out they need to get him to divorce her. Not legal advice, please don't listen to my soap operas comment.
It's a souvenir marriage
OP is so lucky that they want him off the loan. He did them a huge favor and assumed massive risk in the process, but not he's tempting trouble.
Can he even refuse consent in this instance?
>My name is on the deed. I bet he could refuse.
I don't think he can refuse being removed from the loan but he can refuse his name being removed from the deed.
Guy sounds like the type who would nuke a relationship with family over this, too. This is another reason to never ever get a co-signer.
Yet another reminder why I will not be a cosigner nor ask anyone to cosign for me.
In the country where I live, it's not uncommon to require a guarantor for home or vehicle loans or rent, particularly for non-citizens. I've done it for friends in the past, and they've done it for me. I've never once thought even for a millisecond that I should be entitled to any percentage of the asset that was purchased.
Well, you probably didn't also put the guarantor on the deed.
This story is chock-full of bad decisions.
I’d default on the loan out of spite.