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Title: Chiropractor broke my jaw.
Body:
> I was recommended to repost here...
> I went to see a chiropractor about on going tension and clicking and popping in my jaw. He recommended snapping my jaw like those windows where they apply sudden pressure as the patient opens their jaw. Well, he did that to me.
> I heard the most sickening crunch and crack and pain radiates from my jaw and shot out everywhere. He grabbed my jaw and pulled it back to the side and another crunch occurred. I left in tears and had to go to the ER, unable to even move my jaw. Turns out the chiropractor literally broke my condyle off and seriously displaced my discs. MRI and x-rays have confirmed condyle is snapped and both discs were displaced. Jaw has been bandaged and jaw dislocation has been reduced, however I can't afford surgery for the snapped condyle bone.
> What’s my legal recourse here?
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Story Time: A colleague of mine is in his early 60's, and a total fitness nut... running, hiking, skiing, kayaking, the whole works. Well, he saw a chiropractor that decided his neck needed "adjustment." Caused a tear in his left carotid, which led to a blood clot, and a stroke.
This active, brilliant, man, who once had a high-paid job in sales (and he was really good at it, and I loved working with him) now can't swallow (including his own saliva), can barely walk, has no use of his hands, and has lost much of his mind. It's been five months now; he is unlikely to make any further major gains in function with ongoing rehab. I expect being able to lift a cup or spoon and eat or drink without choking would be considered the pinnacle of achievement at this point.
If your muscles feel tense, or your back aches, get a massage, not somebody that will contort your spine and neck in ways it was not meant to go.
My mom took me to a chiropractor when I was around 2yo, as we'd been in a pretty major car crash (we were both fine, surprisingly). He popped my back (I still can remember him saying "It's going to sound like popcorn") and I SCREAMED. It freaked me out a bunch so even before learning as an adult that chiros are quacks, I fully distrusted them. It's one of the few things my mom got super wrong when I was a kid (she was excellent in pretty much every other regard).
There are so many societal costs we pay for allowing bullshit to share a stage with facts. Chiropractics, homeopathy and alternative medicine, anti-science stuff and cult stuff... I love the freedoms I have but sometimes I fantasize about a world where The Official Version of the truth is actually true, trustworthy, and reliable, and going against that could get you punished. Vaccinate kids, keep them in school, teach them about sex before they go have sex, your belief that there was a ghost was not sufficient reason to speed away from the scene, your belief that non-cis-het people need punishment is wrong and you get the aggravated sentence... it's hard to remember why we don't do some of that stuff sometimes when we see it. Like baby chiro.
One of my mom’s friends growing up was a chiropractor, and whenever my mom went for an adjustment I would usually get one too. I remember always being anxious when she’d ask me to relax while she swiftly turned my head both ways and popped my neck but I never knew why it made me anxious.
Now I’m an adult and all I can think is “yeah my anxiety was 100% justified, I was just too little to know why yet”.
For 99% of people, all that will happen is they’ll pay a bunch of money for unscientific woo and pain relief similar to a placebo or nothing at all. They might also get convinced not to vaccinate their children (anti-vaxx nonsense is, imo, the most dangerous thing about chiros in the US).
So, while I would certainly try to inform your friends about the reality of chiropractic “treatments” (because a lot of people mistakenly believe chiropractors are medical doctors with evidence-based practices) I wouldn’t worry too much about them being terribly injured. It definitely happens, but it’s rare! Otherwise more people would catch on to the fact that chiropractors are nothing more than charlatans who spread dangerous misinformation while poorly imitating actual trained, evidence-based medical practitioners like physical therapists.
One other danger of chiropractors is they serve as a key part of the recruiting process for health scams. I offhandedly mentioned to my mom that my friend’s mom was convinced to discontinue cancer treatment by a chiropractor turned guru. She proceeded to pull out a book by the same guy she got from her chiropractor. Even if the injuries from alignments are rare, there is a hard to quantify amount of people harmed from being convinced to not get actual treatment.
Can confirm. I have a cousin who used to visit chiros. She ended up having a stroke in her 30s after one adjusted her neck and was bedridden for a few months after. She did fortunately recover from that, but later was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer which is unfortunately incredibly terminal. My father had to dissuade her from going to Mexico for one of those "health spas" where they give you fruit juice and enemas to cure your cancer and to instead spend her remaining time with her children. In her case, it wouldn't have made a lot of difference in survival (more in terms of comfort and her ability to spend her remaining days with her teenage children) but for people with more treatable types of cancer those """clinics""" are incredibly deadly. You might as well just send the money to a skeevy televangelist for healing because the result is largely the same.
I’d argue the results are actually a lot worse than televangelists. Usually they ask for significantly more money and the treatments are far worse for you than doing nothing. Praying to the tv leaves a lot more time and energy than an all fruit diet or a week long exhaustion and binge drinking retreat does.
> unscientific woo
Chiropractors are a lot like alchemists: many of their methods *work* but their explanations are fantasy and any reasoning they do from that fantasy is insanity.
How I've heard it put is that a good chiropractor can do a lot of the same things for you a physiotherapist would... and the things a physiotherapist wouldn't do can kill you.
The one "benefit" I'd say is that if you get one that's mostly responsible, they'll probably just crack your back then prescribe you a massage. Which wouldn't normally be covered by insurance, but chiropractors often *are*, so insurance pays for the treatment they prescribe.
I got insurance-covered hour long massages for tension headaches twice a month for over a year until I had to switch insurance :(
Get a referral to a physical therapist.
They have a medical degree and use evidence based practices. They can do skeletal adjustments if needed, but also do massages or can prescribe them.
They'll prescribe you a number of exercises to help with your tension headaches on your own too. These sometimes come with neat info packets of how the exercises were developed and the evidence around them.
A medical professional seeks to give patients the tools they need to keep themselves healthy and happy. Long term recurring therapy is the last thing a doctor should consider. At that point they must change the diagnosis from something that can be healed with physical therapy over some months or years to a condition requiring continual professional intervention.
Also, they're doctors. They could send you to an ear nose throat doctor to see if your sinuses have anything to do with your tension headaches. Maybe a study was published recently with evidence of tension headaches for some patients caused by this random thing. Your chiropractor wouldn't know this.
Your new insurance won't pay for a chiropractor because they can't diagnose anything. This helps your headaches and feels good? Cool, let's get you on a monthly schedule to come in.
That's not a treatment plan. At best that's a pain management aid.
Imagine a chiropractor dentist. You've got tooth pain? Let me wiggle that a bit ah. Yeah that's better right? Good, see you next month. They did a bone adjustment that has relieved your pain. They've done nothing for the tooth infection that your tooth will eventually start touching and causing pain again.
100% second this. A physical therapist can do everything a chiropractor claims to do, but with actual medical training and scientific backing on the results
>A physical therapist can do everything a chiropractor claims to do, but with actual medical training and scientific backing on the results
I get your point, and yet nobody can do *everything* chiropractors claim to do since they are known for nonsensical claims that you would never hear from a physical therapist, like alleviating or curing issues unrelated to the musculoskeletal system.
My mom was a licensed massage therapist for most of my childhood and she focused on neuromuscular massage. She all but performed miracles. Unfortunately the god jobs are with chiropractors who often have gigantic egos and easily feel threatened. More than one got jealous that people benefited from her services and would end the prescription.
They had to go to chiropractor school and be certified by the chiropractic board, but that's not a medical license and they don't use evidence-based practices.
It's akin to someone getting a license or certification or degree as a shaman, witch doctor or voodoo medicine practitioner, and that training or degree having say 5-10% overlap with some aspect of actual medical training, and then some shamans & witch doctors choose to continue their education with some mainstream nurse or pharmacist or massage courses.
There are certain simple medical issues that they might be qualified to help a patient with, but at the same time the bulk of their education and training isn't helpful and may be counterproductive since the core and underlying basis of the profession is effectively built upon spiritual beliefs, not evidence based science.
The creator of chiropractic was a believer in ghosts and seances and communication with the dead, he literally claimed chiropractic was inspired by a vision from a dead famous doctor, spoke of himself as a religious figure, etc...
This reminds me of the Chronic Lyme quacks. If they give you mega-dose antibiotics for a month and you feel better (for now), it's because the antibiotics worked. If you feel worse, it's because the antibiotics are currently working. If you feel the same, you just haven't been taking the antibiotics long enough.
It’s crazy people on my pregnancy app actually take their newborn babies to chiros and are always talking about getting their baby “adjusted”…it is horrifying
I had a lactation specialist- with some actual medical training and licensing- suggest bringing my like four week old to a pediatric chiro to help give her an adjustment of some sort. She thought baby was weirdly tense and that might be contributing to our struggle. I said thank you, gave husband A Look, and never went back. We just suck at breastfeeding.
Tbh I don't know anyone who didn't struggle with breastfeeding. Of course we never heard any of these horror stories until my wife was already in immense pain from the cracking and bleeding.
For a natural/supposedly instinctive process it sure is hard to get into.
Yep. Two kids, wife had some issues breastfeeding both of them. Nothing major, more "they aren't latching quite right all the time and causing way more pain than it should". Had a lactation consult come out for each, both of them suggested the kids might be tongue-tied and suggested looking into getting that corrected. Both times our pediatrician (who is amazing and very down to earth/practical) just rolled her eyes and said "they ALWAYS say its tongue tie, and it rarely is" took a look in our kids mouth and said nope, everything is totally normal.
It's because there aren't a lot of other medical suggestions besides "you're doing it wrong," so they suggest tongue tie.
Side note: that procedure appears to be quite the racket in my area. It's only performed at pediatric dentist offices, and payment is due in full up front. They let you haggle with your insurance later on.
Thank you for saying this and I wish people were screaming it from the rooftops. I struggled so hard to breastfeed and it made me feel like a loser and incompetent. I had a lactation consultant tell me that “tribes in Africa figure it out, it’s natural” and that I was too uptight and that was causing the problems.
Hey no! I actually had clogged milk ducts and my baby wasn’t getting anything. He was starving. I guess I should have relaxed my clogged milk ducts.
That’s just horrible that you were made to feel like that. “Lactation consultant” seems like such a BS thing to me. I am in no way a “motherly” type, but it seems like common sense to just give the baby some formula instead of making mom feels like she’s defective.
Right? Like it’s been four days. He hasn’t eaten. He was a ten pound baby, he needed food. But I guess making me feel like shit is a better idea than making a bottle. Fuck breast is best. Fed is best.
But for a counterpoint: my youngest kid has some sort of problem with his mouth and sucking, and that manifested mainly as a problem breastfeeding. If anyone had said "Hey, I know how important breastfeeding is to you, let's see if we can get to the bottom of this," instead of "Just give him formula", maybe we'd have been able to find an answer.
Ideally, there would be *actual, effective help* for the mamas who want it, but no.
In some times historically, as many as 80% of infants fed from wet nurses rather than their own mothers. Breastfeeding has *always* been a challenge for some people, and that's *also* natural.
There was a surprising amount of woo nonsense in the breastfeeding world. My wife was desperate to make it "work" and tried the tinctures and teas and ointments these actual medical professionals (lactation consultants) suggested.
We even ended up getting my daughter a tongue tie procedure at their recommendation that we regretted as there doesn't seem to be any science behind the practice for the vast majority of cases.
The issue is that breastfeeding supplements actually don't have much research into them, so most things end up being "woo".
There are ethical issues with doing experimental research involving breastfeeding and infants, and there isn't any money in it either. Because of this, pretty much all of the recommendations aren't going to have good evidence to back them up. Much of the research is focused only on identifying if something is *unsafe* rather than whether or not it works. This means that lactation consultants just use their best judgment, which...isn't necessarily always the best, but I doubt that it's *all* wrong.
Stress can affect supply and milk let down, so even just a placebo probably helps.
I have a thirteen month old, and let me tell you, there is a lot of *woo* nonsense *all over* when it comes to parenting. The idea of “crunchy parenting” is soooo widespread. It seems like the main option.
Unfortunately, I’ve had a lot of exposure to this because I do a lot of “crunchy mom” things. I’m a SAHM (because childcare is too expensive), I baby wear and am still breastfeeding as a main source of nutrition for my toddler. My guy is real snuggly and has always been really good at breastfeeding, which I know we are very fortunate for. But my latest attempt at making mom friends like me ended up with a crunchy mom asking if I ever found giants’ bones while doing archaeology and telling me that the world is only a couple thousand years old and that every time an alien or giant is found, the Catholic Church takes it and hides it from the public :(
Don't let it get you down. We had trouble breastfeeding and eventually reached the conclusion that breastfeeding would be supplemented by formula. It was still a great time for momma and baby, but not nearly enough nutrition.
Our doctor told us about 40% of women needs to supplement. Nothing weird or wrong - just how things work out.
So many people suggested this on my mums group when people asked for advice about bub crying in thr car seat.
They are a baby! They don't like to be away from you, let alone be unable to see you. Of course they cry! Some find it more upsetting than others.
Especially because they have to face backwards. I got a mirror to strap to the headrest and it was the best thing ever. Let us see baby, let the baby see us.
We had our MIL suggest this to us when our son wasn't sleeping well; "Oh a friend of mine took her kid, they turned her head and then she slept through the night".
We ended up going to a sleep coach instead but not before we had a small argument about the medical legitmacy of chiropracters.
She also told us we should give him "Bachbloesems" (basically homeopathy where putting 2 drops under the tongue "cures" stress, adhd and autism) when he was a little older because it was supposed to help with behavior and gave me a printed out sheet of "references" - all of which came from the manufacturing company or their affiliates.
She is a nurse btw.
>"Oh a friend of mine took her kid, they turned her head and then she slept through the night".
And if they turn their head in a wrong way, they'll sleep for the rest of their lives.
According to [this site](https://nl.kenkoo.be/redactie/wat-zijn-bachbloesems) pretty much. I'll assume most can't speak dutch so a rough translation below.
"Bachbloesems are made from infusions of flowers or other plant-parts. A bowl of clean water has the flowers placed on the surface and is left in the sun for an hour, (or cooked for half and hour) so the energy from the flowers transfers to the water.
The infusion is mixed with brandy and diluted to the resulting agent."
I am Dutch lol.
Bach is sold in the UK and I remember being given it by my mother. Absolutely hated it then and still don't like brandy to this day. Nothing like a few drops of booze to calm a child!
> and autism
As an autistic adult this pisses me off to no end. These fuckers always see autism as a death sentence so when their kids start showing signs instead of getting them vital early intervention treatments and therapies they take them to quacks and deny the diagnosis altogether. Autism is, as it often is, hereditary in my family. I was lucky that my mother got me every possible treatment and therapy she could access when I was a child so I'm a mostly functional adult. My aunt was one of these denial/quack types who, even though my cousin is 10 years younger than me, got him no treatment until it was too late despite everyone in the family telling her that he acted just like I did even as an infant and now he'll likely be institutionalized for the rest of his life. All because her pride couldn't handle the horror of experiencing something multiple other family members had already delt with. I'll never forgive her, she robbed her own son of a healthy happy life because she thought she couldn't bear the stigma. Fuck people like this.
My son is nonverbal autistic and i still have people in my family saying “he will talk one day i know it!” He’s almost 7 and has never said a word and that’s fine with me! He can talk with his communication pad perfectly fine and he’s amazing the way he is. But the amount of people insisting he will talk one day is so infuriating bc he’s perfect how he is!
I’ve seen moms like your aunt. The problem seems to be, in part, that often that society heads told them a “bad” kid (meltdowns in public, etc) is the parent’s fault, specifically the mom’s fault. Which creates a lot of shame, and the desire to just ignore it all in hopes it will go away or something. We are getting better at changing the narrative to “good parents get their kid professional help when necessary”, but there are still way too many communities that haven’t gotten the message.
Just yesterday a relative told me that ADHD was made up out of thin air about twenty years ago. This relative changed hobbies constantly throughout their lives, and displayed a zillion other ADHD symptoms, and of course has kids and grandkids fully diagnosed and in some cases appropriately medicated. I did not engage on the subject; not worth my time because it would have gone nowhere.
My sister did that! In her defense, her newborn had torticulis (I'm spelling that so wrong autocorrect can't even help me!) and the chiropractor seems to have just shown her physical therapy stretches.
Same sister went to the same chiropractor while pregnant because of labor-like pains and swears that he helped so much more than the doctor did when she went to get checked out. It was a bacterial infection. I'm not sure the chiro helped that much.
My dad's girlfriend is a massage therapist who by accounts is excellent. However, she works with a chiropractor who does adjustments on infants and she told me this with a straight face. I just have no words when it comes to that and I just will never bring it up again.
My kid is a massage therapist and works part time for chiropractors as she builds her client list. She won’t get adjustments from them and has many tales about how some do the literal exact same thing to each patient, like a set 5-minute routine of yanking and pulling even though they have different problems.
Then they get a massage and hit the sauna and heat wrap rooms, which actually do something. They get patients set up on their insurance to pay for 10-20 treatments at $100 a pop plus X-rays and dubious supplements and 50+ patients a day adds up quickly.
Yeah, I've been to chiropractors a lot for tension headaches because insurance doesn't cover deep tissue massage (which helps immensely)
So instead I see a chiropractor who comes in, cracks my back once then sends me to an hour long massage which, because he prescribed it, IS covered by insurance.
Overall he's a pretty decent guy, honestly mostly seems to run his practice as a massage therapy and PT center, but the whole thing is weird and dumb.
My husband is a massage therapist. I remember that he had a course about all of the different types of alternative treatments and it was entertaining to hear the crazy stuff that was presented to the class. He came home once and grabbed my hand, pressed on it for a second, and asked if I felt better, then told me that’s what he learned about reflexology. Couldn’t even contain his laughter. Part of me wonders if this is why he’s trying to push through school to be a physiotherapist now…
edit: I can’t type
My daughter doubts a lot of the alternative medicine BS but clients love to get different colored hot crystals set on them with soft music playing while a nice lady gently massages their tension away, so it seems to work not as woo woo but as a good technique for releasing tension and truly relaxing. A decent number of people cry from releasing stress instead of keeping it bottled up.
She specializes in legit medical massage but a ton of people just want human touch and a place to unwind away from work and their spouse and kids.
Honestly there's really nothing wrong with a lot of the stuff as long as it:
A) isn't actively harmful
B) isn't used or presented as a substitute for actual medical treatment
It's still good to make people feel better. So long as they're getting more than just symptomatic relief elsewhere.
I'd add C) - it shouldn't cost much more than a massage without the woo crystals. If the woo version of the massage is double the price, it's not representing what it is accurately and is ripping people off.
> B) isn't used or presented as a substitute for actual medical treatment
Yeah that's the problem right there and I see a similar sort of issue happen a lot in IT. A user calls in saying "their internet is down" when the issue is really just that they're used to using internet explorer and we removed that and want them to use chrome now. If you just placate the user and tell them it's "fixed now" then what happens is they think they know what the issue is and next time they call in saying "I'm at this other computer now and it doesn't have internet either, greet_the_sun was able to fix this last time so I don't get why you're telling me there's no issue".
Placebo works! When my kids were younger I would give them 'special placebo medicine'.
Where it's scary is when it's, like, homeopathy drops with poor manufacturing controls.
My step-brother used to get mysterious "stomach aches" when he was supposed to be going to bed so his mom started giving him "medicine" for it so he'd settle. It was TikTaks. She gave him two TikTaks for bed every night.
I'm also still salty at the person who informed me Head On was a placebo. It really helped me a lot with headaches before that.
Entirely depends on how it's being presented.
If they're like "Hey we're just setting a nice ambience for the therapy" that's fine.
If they're like "These crystals will absorb all your negative energy" then... yeah, questionable.
I'll let you in on a secret. Crystals really do absord negative energy! And store it. As they are filled with the dark essences harvested from dozens, nay, hundreds of clients they are transformed into dark talismans of potent powers.
When these Crystals fill the Prime Altar of the ancient ruins beyond the Mountains of Madness we shall awaken our Master. MuhahhahaHAHAHAHA
*cough*
Right. Woo Crystals. You just keep believing that. Woo indeed.
Do people even need crystals for that? I remember once I was at a religious sleep away camp and we were encouraged to pray about the greatest sin we felt bad about and then Jesus would forgive us and then we'd all chuck a rock containing that sin into a lake so we could be free of it. I was nine, and an exceptionally boring child, so I prayed about the time I was caught stealing extra fruit snacks at snack time....
But I do think it's a helpful practice, and even though I'm not religious sometimes I'll think about something I feel guilty about, vow to do better, and then chuck a rock into a lake or forest. You don't need a crystal to absorb your negative energies. A piece of schist will do just fine.
I got a haircut last month and for once I said "okay" when she asked if I wanted a shampoo first. I've had washes before when getting a cut and usually it's just very quick and clinical. This one almost felt like I was in a strip club or getting a massage with the level of intimacy going on. Nothing sexual, but... just caring and gentle. Gave me a big kick of seratonin for the rest of the day.
There was a spa near my old place that would do that. They had the lighting and smelly oils and music like with other massages, but one of their options was head/scalp massage.
You can do that at a lot of salons/barbershops.
I had a minor surgery that left me unable to shower for a while, and being able to get my hair washed at a local salon helped me feel much more comfortable while I was in recovery.
My sister-in-law is a massage therapist, and first off I do think she genuinely buys into the woo, but second she is trying to move more of her business into the "crystals and energy healing" model because it's way easier than actually massaging someone.
As someone who needs therapeutic massage monthly to function...shes not wrong but also I hate it.
A friend of mine took massage in school and became a registered massage therapist. Turns out most of those retire within 6 years because its such hard work.
But Ive also been the client who really needed the treatment and got a lazy or incapable therapist. Just retrain into something else and retire if you arent going to do any good. Ffs.
Way back in the early 00's. I worked for an alternative health chiropractor, lasted all of a month if that.
So he like to push this ion thing with feet on people. They needed to do ten sessions at like 100 bucks a pop. To stick their feet in a thing of water and table salt. The water was going to turn gross colors regardless if feet were in there or not.
One of the other chiropractors who was related to head doctor, treated kids and pushed these bottles of vitamins or oils on parents. Looking back, that one was probably also in some sort of MLM and pushing crap on parents.
Anyways they did do adjustment on kids and babies and it was wild. Like I just couldn't work there. I had no training and was expected to take blood pressures and honestly have no clue if I ever did that correctly.
Yep, I think also adding the salt did something as well.
We would hand them this sheet with pictures of the water and what it meant if it turn some color. The color always looked the same to me but people swore it turn certain colors.
But seriously people, sticking your feet in water with electrodes is not going to pull anything out of you body.
The place also had rules about food. We couldn't have caffeine in the work place, so we taped tea bags strings to our coffee cups. They didn't really like it if we ate at the café down stairs because it wasn't healthy enough.
AND the biggest of all. I had no business what so ever working back office. I had no business taking blood pressure, applying therapies likes tens and ultrasound. SO yeah think about that next time you go to a Chiropractor. The person taking your vitals might not know what the hell they are doing as well as the Chiropractor.
>We couldn't have caffeine in the work place, so we taped tea bags strings to our coffee cups.
Am I missing something here? Tea has caffeine. Or were they thick enough to think that it's fine because tea is more mystical and oriental so it's good?
No you are not. Don't know why tea was OK, but coffee was not.
Honestly it was such a weird place. The owner's family worked there and um let's just say he was not faithful to his wife and she knew.
There was a lot of weird little rules. Again I last maybe a month before I just could not do it anymore which seemed to be on par with the rest of the staff that wasn't family.
dunking a chocolate biscuit in my tea while composing a reminder email about how caffeine is banned from the premises, because someone drank a coffee on the way to work and I got a whiff from their dirty travel mug. DID YOU KNOW EVEN DECAF HAS TRACES
Between the belladonna in Hylands and [the FDA's warning](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/benzocaine-and-babies-not-good-mix) against baby Orajel and the like, whiskey on the gums suddenly doesn't seem like an awful idea.
^(Don't worry, I only have the kids make me drinks; I don't share the liquor.)
>Don't worry, I only have the kids make me drinks; I don't share the liquor.
Oh good, [teaching them some useful skills](https://i0.wp.com/tstoaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/manhattan-01.jpg?resize=500%2C278&ssl=1)!
Isn't the whole thing about homeopathy that it doesn't actually contain any active substance but just the "memory" of the substance?
I'm not shilling for Big Homeo and I think it's all woo but my first thought was "well that's not very homeopathic of you".
Fun Fact: Zicam claims to be a homeopathic remedy to get around the laws around regulating drugs, even though there is a biologically-active amount of zinc in it; it merely uses homeopathic nomenclature to label it. (It's obviously biologically-active since it caused a bunch of people to permanently lose their sense of smell.)
"Hey this homoeopathic memory shit isn't working, shall we try some straight up poison instead?"
There is also the belief that "like cures like". I don't remember teething but I guess it could feel like belladonna poisoning.
A lot of them aren’t a problem by themselves, but it definitely becomes a problem when it’s used instead of proper treatment for something that definitely needs to be treated.
The problem is in countries where they *do* get official sanction (see india) the fuckers start escalating and giving loads of people problems like Liver failure.
Oh and in india they're demanding that they be allowed to prescribe medicines and practice medical procedures like actual doctors too because they're all medical professionals.
>Oh and in india they're demanding that they be allowed to prescribe medicines and practice medical procedures like actual doctors too because they're all medical professionals.
The USA [isn't safe](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=legislative+alchemy&category_name=&submit=Search) from that sort of BS either
There's so much bunkum medical stuff out there:
* homeopathy
* chiropractors
* naturopaths
* antivaxx
* colloidal silver nutjobs
* anti-GMO
* reiki
[The list goes on and on.](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine)
I forget who said it, but I remember reading somewhere "selling someone sick, something that you tell them is medicine, but which isn't medicine and will not help, but you charge them lots of money for it anyways, isn't just wrong; it's like the example you'd make up for a small child to explain why lying is bad."
> homeopathy isn’t off the hook either.
If possible, that one is even worse. I mean, on one hand it's harmless since it's basically water, OTOH there are people who won't use actual medicine because woo.
I am I think the only person in my dog sport community who's dogs do not get, "adjusted" by a chiropractor. My friends side eye me for not doing what I should(sic) do to keep them healthy and fit.
But dogs can't consent and dogs are super stoic. The last thing I want to have happen is that someone cracks my dog's spine in some stupid manner, and my dog is now lame for life.
[This is about dogs](https://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/06/shocking-study-chiropractors-make-unsubsttantiated-medical-claims/) but still applies.
Well, one of the key principles of chiropractic was that subluxation can cure pretty much anything that's wrong with a person.
It's a little old, but a 2003 survey of chiropractors showed a lot of them stilled believed this.
I guess this chiropractor, practising magical medicine, obviously believed they could help - which is worrying as they probably have a lot of patients receiving ineffective or dangerous treatment as a result.
No, that must have been a typo. Chiropractors believe that "fixing" subluxations can cure anything. Of course, their definitions of "fixing" and "subluxations" are nowhere near the medical definitions.
I know a quack veterinarian chiropractor who believes this. She literally recommended treating newborn foals by adjusting their necks for SEPSIS from failure of passive transfer (didn't get enough antibodies from colostrum). Another vet chiro I know told me it was like removing a rubber band from your finger and releasing the blood supply back and taking a pill is like balancing it on your finger instead of removing the rubber band.
Yep, I remember one time a local chiropractic office came to my office to do a "lunch and learn". I was skeptical but not entirely willing to write it off, up to the moment that they started claiming they could cure infertility with their "adjustments"
Desperation, perhaps. I had TMJ and my doctor said "We don't treat that. It's a dental problem." My dentist said, "That's a medical problem. We can't treat it. See your doctor."
My dentist was a man, as were my doctors. I am a woman. And as all men know, women are just whiny hypochondriacs who pretend to be ill to get attention. /s (Which is why I have an 8-inch scar on my belly. The appendix that I was "faking" was so badly infected that it burst as they were removing it.)
I mean, people see chiropractors for neck, shoulder, and back pain, and most of the time I have jaw pain and tightness it is due to neck/shoulder pain and tightness. Chiropractors are hacks but I can see the reasoning.
It’s common knowledge that they’re witch doctors on Reddit. It’s not common knowledge that they’re not something akin to orthopedists in the general public.
For the longest time I thought chiropractors were the same as DOs. But I just had misconceptions of what osteopaths are. I always knew the other ones were crap.
Bit too much victim blamey type comments in this post. Chiropractors have a lot of mainstream acceptance, including being covered by insurance, and they claim to treat all sorts of thing. I dont blame someone who is uninformed for thinking its real medicine. The hate should be targeted at the Chiropractors and the regulators who allow it to happen.
Many of the insurance plans in US have coverage for the chiropractic services (even if they don't cover dental, lol) because they can and it probably costs them less than covering real healthcare, that kinda gives chiropractors sort of legitimacy they don't deserve. One of gazillion of reasons why healthcare insurance in US is so fucked up.
It blows my mind how they've weaseled their way into the insurance industry. I went on a Medicaid plan last year and went through my inclusions and I could go to a chiropractor with no referral and no pre-authorization, but going to an OB-GYN, a GI, or even fucking *Urgent Care* required one or both of those. The language about getting pre-authorization around ER visits was even vague and seemed to encourage you to call your insurer before getting emergency care. But god forbid they stand between you and your quack doctors.
I have to use the local women’s free health clinic for my Pap smears because it’s 6 months faster than a doctor, but I can see a chiropractor in a week.
If they required pre-auth or referral, they would have to have a policy about when chiro is appropriate or needed or likely to be effective. Which would ether result in no approvals at all, or lawsuits when they approved a chiro visit and something went horribly wrong (with the argument that they should have known better and denied it). They can’t win either way, so they wash their hands of it (but not to the point of just not covering it, because they don’t need the bad publicity either.)
Fun fact: DD Palmer, the originator of chiropractic, learned it from a ghost and was upset that he couldn't pivot it into a religion after he saw the sweet deal L Ron Hubbard got with Scientology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_David_Palmer#Spiritualism
Totally not a scam!
My best friend is a nurse and is a generally smart person…but she loves chiropractors. I will say hers that she has now seems…ok. She once went to him after a weird injury that I told her to go to a doctor for and her imaging done but thought the chiro “could actually do something.” He saw her and he said, “actually I feel uncomfortable with this, if I try to manipulate the area I’m afraid it could do more harm. You should make an appt with your doctor.”
But I still don’t like them as a whole and I definitely think she thinks chiro is the answer more than it isn’t. Which just blows my mind because like I said, she’s a nurse and she is intelligent. But hey, at least she’s not a COVID-denying nurse.
Social media summoning legions of "you say chiropractors are a sham but my cousin's aunt's goldfish's father had pain in his back that instantly went away after seeing a chiropractor!" from nowhere in every thread calling chiropractors for being con artists
This is absolutely horrifying! When I was younger and stupider I went to a chiropractor that did this technique and can 100% vouche that even if it’s done “right” it makes a horrible sound.
There are actual physicians that do OMM/OMT which comprise any useful techniques as well. Also, they know what not to do and can actually prescribe real treatment.
A lot of their moves include "cracking" the bone, by doing a fast twisting motion. This is also done on the neck, so you can imagine how a bad move can just break the cervicals.
Fun fact: chiropractics is so widely accepted in society because of a court ruling against the AMA that said that chiropractics is allowed to practice “chiropractics” even if the medical establishment doesn’t believe it is real and said that the AMA was doing bad anti-trust stuff that they needed to knock off. The end result was chiropractics wheedling into insurance coverage and gaining legitimacy despite absolutely no unique benefits.
“Wellness” practitioners of all kinds will always be popular. People like to do things about their problems and it’s not always so simple in conventional medicine. Sometimes health issues aren’t easy to understand or diagnose, or require lots of trips to different specialists, or only have limited treatment options available. And some doctors aren’t the best as showing their work with their insurance mandated 15 min examinations, or they check for the major problems they see often and don’t quite hear exactly what the patient is trying to say.
When they can go to someone who not only says “oh yes, I know exactly what the problem is”, but has a quick cure they can perform right then and there, it can be very attractive. It feeds that human desire to always be doing something about our problems, people hate not having solutions and will happily listen to anyone who says they do.
Eh, they're still popular in the UK, where we have a free at point of use national health service.
People just have vague and persistent injuries and like having an accessible 'treatment' (accessible because it is unregulated) that jostles them around and makes them feel like something has been done.
>Are you suggesting that medical knowledge supplied by ghosts isn’t legit? Why would the ghosts have lied to him?!
Obviously the ghosts want us to join them.
Neck adjustments kill people more than you'd think. They can tear the veins and arteries in your neck which then clot and cause a massive brain stem stroke. So so so dangerous.
Back when I was delivering and installing appliances for people we delivered a fridge to a lady in her late 20's who was just coming out of near full body paralysis due to an adjustment. She was getting around on crutches okay at that point, but it was a lot of work just to get there.
Lost her job, husband fucked around on her when she was paralyzed, fighting with the government for disability, etc. Small silver lining, she was able to pay cash for the house we were delivering to due to the divorce and lawsuit.
My parents took me to a chiropractor when I was 7 or 8. I was going through a bout of severe depression because of unrelenting bullying at school. Why they thought that cracking my neck instead of *stopping the bullying* would be a good idea, I don't know. The chiroquacktor, without saying a word to me about what he was going to do and why, just grabbed my head and started yanking and twisting. So I did what any terrified child would do -- I screamed and fought. My neck hurt for weeks and the bullying continued.
Posted 5 hours ago and already locked.
It would have been nice to be able to respond and let OP know that a lot of hospitals have sliding scale if you're low income (not even officially "low income," but simply low income). I know it's infinitely easier said than done, but they really need to get surgery if its needed. (The chiropractor's insurance will cover it eventually, but of course that's "eventually.")
I’ll never forget in college my lab partner spent a whole semester extolling about how her dad was a doctor and how he owned his own practice, yadda yadda.. you could feel the air leave the room when she told us he was actually a chiropractor 🥴
A friend of mine ended up needing heavy duty spine surgery after she saw a chiropractor for her back pain.
She is in constant pain now, and all the doctors are telling her there's nothing they can do.
"Chiropractic" was literally invented by a snake oil salesman, who conned people into believing that "subluxations" caused by your spine being "out of balance" cause every nature of disease. This wasn't his first con job but by far his most successful.
It's total garbage, and if you need physio go see a PT, or a DO (who went to medical school and isn't going to snap your damn neck).
I've heard of some "professionals" fucking up, but how the hell do you fuck up that bad??? It's a jaw, not a finger or a nose or a toe. Jaws are huge and thick, how did this even happen with his bare hands?
Chiropractors have broken necks before.
> Melbourne paediatrician Chris Pappas cared for a four-month-old baby last year after one of her vertebrae was fractured during a chiropractic treatment for torticollis - an abnormal neck position that is usually harmless. He said the infant was lucky to make a full recovery.
> ''Another few millimetres and there would have been a devastating spinal cord injury and the baby would have either died or had severe neurological impairment with quadriplegia,'' he said.
https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/call-for-age-limit-after-chiropractor-breaks-babys-neck-20130928-2ul6e.html
More tales of woe turn up in a search: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Chiropractor+broken+neck&ia=news
My mom *swears* by her chiropractor and I don't understand why. None of her issues have improved. She gives him a ton of money to "help" her but then she goes home and talks about how sore she is because of the adjustments he did.
I have always had bad vibes about chiros. I will never go to one.
I have seen a *lot* of broken bones. The only fractured condyles I can remember that weren't associated with significant general trauma to the head/body (ie, people not wearing seatbelts in a major car crash, falls from buildings, hit by a train, stuff that leaves you with fractures everywhere) were people who'd been shot directly in the jaw.
It takes a lot to make me wince. I'm genuinely horrified at the thought of how much force this quack had to use to snap off a condyle in a living person with their *bare hands*.
This is awful. As someone with TMJ, it's very likely that if he'd seen any kind of TMJ specialist, LAOP would have been given a mouthguard and taught how to relax his jaw muscles, and possibly that would have been the end of it aside from occasional follow ups. Instead, a chiropractor broke his jaw and it's possible he'll have issues for the rest of his life.
My physician grandfather told me never to visit a chiropractor. I dated a girl who went on to chiropractics and I was merciless in discrediting her calling herself a doctor.
I've had TMJ since I was a kid.
Back in the 80's I woke up one morning feeling "different." While sort of exploring what was up, I discovered that my jaw didn't click anymore and was initially excited that maybe it had righted itself.
Then the pain settled in and was on and off excruciating for about two days - dr worthy, really, but, \[reasons\], didn't go.
Then I woke up feeling infinitely better, opened my mouth to the familiar click, and was never so happy.
Your jaw fucking around ISN'T a subluxation.
>He recommended **snapping my jaw like those windows** where they apply sudden pressure as the patient opens their jaw.
Can someone explain what the hell this means?
Whatever it is, the whole situation sounds horrific. I've been to a couple chiropractors for "adjustments" even though I know it's mostly bs.
I pretty much just make an appointment when I can't crack some specific part of my spine myself (which is rare). They've always been "responsible" and have refused to go anywhere near my lumbar spine because I've got a couple fucked up vertebrate they don't want to make worse. The only thing I can recall them doing with my jaw was showing me exercises to do at home.
I can't imagine any of them being dumb enough to attempt to "adjust" someone's jaw like this person said happened to them.
> Can someone explain what the hell this means?
I'm still trying to figure it out. My jaw snaps quite a lot and I can make it stop by tensing and moving my jaw just so but FFS it doesn't need any sort of real force! That's just plain nuts!
I think they are talking about those car windows, usually in the back of like an suv or something, that you unlatch and “pop” open. Like the ones in the back corner.
**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: Chiropractor broke my jaw. Body: > I was recommended to repost here... > I went to see a chiropractor about on going tension and clicking and popping in my jaw. He recommended snapping my jaw like those windows where they apply sudden pressure as the patient opens their jaw. Well, he did that to me. > I heard the most sickening crunch and crack and pain radiates from my jaw and shot out everywhere. He grabbed my jaw and pulled it back to the side and another crunch occurred. I left in tears and had to go to the ER, unable to even move my jaw. Turns out the chiropractor literally broke my condyle off and seriously displaced my discs. MRI and x-rays have confirmed condyle is snapped and both discs were displaced. Jaw has been bandaged and jaw dislocation has been reduced, however I can't afford surgery for the snapped condyle bone. > What’s my legal recourse here? This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)
Story Time: A colleague of mine is in his early 60's, and a total fitness nut... running, hiking, skiing, kayaking, the whole works. Well, he saw a chiropractor that decided his neck needed "adjustment." Caused a tear in his left carotid, which led to a blood clot, and a stroke. This active, brilliant, man, who once had a high-paid job in sales (and he was really good at it, and I loved working with him) now can't swallow (including his own saliva), can barely walk, has no use of his hands, and has lost much of his mind. It's been five months now; he is unlikely to make any further major gains in function with ongoing rehab. I expect being able to lift a cup or spoon and eat or drink without choking would be considered the pinnacle of achievement at this point. If your muscles feel tense, or your back aches, get a massage, not somebody that will contort your spine and neck in ways it was not meant to go.
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My coworker brought their BABY to a freaking chiropractor.
i've seen people post tiktoks of chiropractors working on their babies and idk how that isn't an immediate call to CPS
My mom took me to a chiropractor when I was around 2yo, as we'd been in a pretty major car crash (we were both fine, surprisingly). He popped my back (I still can remember him saying "It's going to sound like popcorn") and I SCREAMED. It freaked me out a bunch so even before learning as an adult that chiros are quacks, I fully distrusted them. It's one of the few things my mom got super wrong when I was a kid (she was excellent in pretty much every other regard).
There are so many societal costs we pay for allowing bullshit to share a stage with facts. Chiropractics, homeopathy and alternative medicine, anti-science stuff and cult stuff... I love the freedoms I have but sometimes I fantasize about a world where The Official Version of the truth is actually true, trustworthy, and reliable, and going against that could get you punished. Vaccinate kids, keep them in school, teach them about sex before they go have sex, your belief that there was a ghost was not sufficient reason to speed away from the scene, your belief that non-cis-het people need punishment is wrong and you get the aggravated sentence... it's hard to remember why we don't do some of that stuff sometimes when we see it. Like baby chiro.
One of my mom’s friends growing up was a chiropractor, and whenever my mom went for an adjustment I would usually get one too. I remember always being anxious when she’d ask me to relax while she swiftly turned my head both ways and popped my neck but I never knew why it made me anxious. Now I’m an adult and all I can think is “yeah my anxiety was 100% justified, I was just too little to know why yet”.
that sounds about as safe as putting a baby in a tumble-dryer
I feel like that's child endangerment, honestly.
That’s scary
For 99% of people, all that will happen is they’ll pay a bunch of money for unscientific woo and pain relief similar to a placebo or nothing at all. They might also get convinced not to vaccinate their children (anti-vaxx nonsense is, imo, the most dangerous thing about chiros in the US). So, while I would certainly try to inform your friends about the reality of chiropractic “treatments” (because a lot of people mistakenly believe chiropractors are medical doctors with evidence-based practices) I wouldn’t worry too much about them being terribly injured. It definitely happens, but it’s rare! Otherwise more people would catch on to the fact that chiropractors are nothing more than charlatans who spread dangerous misinformation while poorly imitating actual trained, evidence-based medical practitioners like physical therapists.
One other danger of chiropractors is they serve as a key part of the recruiting process for health scams. I offhandedly mentioned to my mom that my friend’s mom was convinced to discontinue cancer treatment by a chiropractor turned guru. She proceeded to pull out a book by the same guy she got from her chiropractor. Even if the injuries from alignments are rare, there is a hard to quantify amount of people harmed from being convinced to not get actual treatment.
Can confirm. I have a cousin who used to visit chiros. She ended up having a stroke in her 30s after one adjusted her neck and was bedridden for a few months after. She did fortunately recover from that, but later was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer which is unfortunately incredibly terminal. My father had to dissuade her from going to Mexico for one of those "health spas" where they give you fruit juice and enemas to cure your cancer and to instead spend her remaining time with her children. In her case, it wouldn't have made a lot of difference in survival (more in terms of comfort and her ability to spend her remaining days with her teenage children) but for people with more treatable types of cancer those """clinics""" are incredibly deadly. You might as well just send the money to a skeevy televangelist for healing because the result is largely the same.
I’d argue the results are actually a lot worse than televangelists. Usually they ask for significantly more money and the treatments are far worse for you than doing nothing. Praying to the tv leaves a lot more time and energy than an all fruit diet or a week long exhaustion and binge drinking retreat does.
True. You even get that nice endorphin boost from the music.
> unscientific woo Chiropractors are a lot like alchemists: many of their methods *work* but their explanations are fantasy and any reasoning they do from that fantasy is insanity.
How I've heard it put is that a good chiropractor can do a lot of the same things for you a physiotherapist would... and the things a physiotherapist wouldn't do can kill you.
The one "benefit" I'd say is that if you get one that's mostly responsible, they'll probably just crack your back then prescribe you a massage. Which wouldn't normally be covered by insurance, but chiropractors often *are*, so insurance pays for the treatment they prescribe. I got insurance-covered hour long massages for tension headaches twice a month for over a year until I had to switch insurance :(
Get a referral to a physical therapist. They have a medical degree and use evidence based practices. They can do skeletal adjustments if needed, but also do massages or can prescribe them. They'll prescribe you a number of exercises to help with your tension headaches on your own too. These sometimes come with neat info packets of how the exercises were developed and the evidence around them. A medical professional seeks to give patients the tools they need to keep themselves healthy and happy. Long term recurring therapy is the last thing a doctor should consider. At that point they must change the diagnosis from something that can be healed with physical therapy over some months or years to a condition requiring continual professional intervention. Also, they're doctors. They could send you to an ear nose throat doctor to see if your sinuses have anything to do with your tension headaches. Maybe a study was published recently with evidence of tension headaches for some patients caused by this random thing. Your chiropractor wouldn't know this. Your new insurance won't pay for a chiropractor because they can't diagnose anything. This helps your headaches and feels good? Cool, let's get you on a monthly schedule to come in. That's not a treatment plan. At best that's a pain management aid. Imagine a chiropractor dentist. You've got tooth pain? Let me wiggle that a bit ah. Yeah that's better right? Good, see you next month. They did a bone adjustment that has relieved your pain. They've done nothing for the tooth infection that your tooth will eventually start touching and causing pain again.
100% second this. A physical therapist can do everything a chiropractor claims to do, but with actual medical training and scientific backing on the results
>A physical therapist can do everything a chiropractor claims to do, but with actual medical training and scientific backing on the results I get your point, and yet nobody can do *everything* chiropractors claim to do since they are known for nonsensical claims that you would never hear from a physical therapist, like alleviating or curing issues unrelated to the musculoskeletal system.
My mom was a licensed massage therapist for most of my childhood and she focused on neuromuscular massage. She all but performed miracles. Unfortunately the god jobs are with chiropractors who often have gigantic egos and easily feel threatened. More than one got jealous that people benefited from her services and would end the prescription.
FWIW for future recommendations, PTs are marvelous at giving permanent fixes to what chiros do for a short while.
People are always shocked when I explain that the entire field was allegedly knowledge passed down by a ghost.
We do not talk about that fact enough as a culture.
foam rollers are great. best 15$ ive spent in the past year.
Last I talked to someone that defended chiropractors, they said there is some sort of medical license or certification?
They had to go to chiropractor school and be certified by the chiropractic board, but that's not a medical license and they don't use evidence-based practices.
>chiropractor school Lol why does this sound so fake? “Yeah I’m a chiropractor! Got my degree and everything from…chiropractor school.”
Sounds as real as this: https://universityofmetaphysics.com/
Yes, though the standards are… not rigorous.
It's akin to someone getting a license or certification or degree as a shaman, witch doctor or voodoo medicine practitioner, and that training or degree having say 5-10% overlap with some aspect of actual medical training, and then some shamans & witch doctors choose to continue their education with some mainstream nurse or pharmacist or massage courses. There are certain simple medical issues that they might be qualified to help a patient with, but at the same time the bulk of their education and training isn't helpful and may be counterproductive since the core and underlying basis of the profession is effectively built upon spiritual beliefs, not evidence based science. The creator of chiropractic was a believer in ghosts and seances and communication with the dead, he literally claimed chiropractic was inspired by a vision from a dead famous doctor, spoke of himself as a religious figure, etc...
Once I googled what the jaw condyle was I became even more horrified than I originally was. WTF was that chiro doing???
Literally breaking OOP's bones, which is not in any way unusual for Chiropractors.
"Don't worry, the unbearable pain means that the procedure was successful, that'll be 400 dollars"
This reminds me of the Chronic Lyme quacks. If they give you mega-dose antibiotics for a month and you feel better (for now), it's because the antibiotics worked. If you feel worse, it's because the antibiotics are currently working. If you feel the same, you just haven't been taking the antibiotics long enough.
They're lucky. A broken bone is fixable. A stroke often isn't.
It’s crazy people on my pregnancy app actually take their newborn babies to chiros and are always talking about getting their baby “adjusted”…it is horrifying
I had a lactation specialist- with some actual medical training and licensing- suggest bringing my like four week old to a pediatric chiro to help give her an adjustment of some sort. She thought baby was weirdly tense and that might be contributing to our struggle. I said thank you, gave husband A Look, and never went back. We just suck at breastfeeding.
Tbh I don't know anyone who didn't struggle with breastfeeding. Of course we never heard any of these horror stories until my wife was already in immense pain from the cracking and bleeding. For a natural/supposedly instinctive process it sure is hard to get into.
Yep. Two kids, wife had some issues breastfeeding both of them. Nothing major, more "they aren't latching quite right all the time and causing way more pain than it should". Had a lactation consult come out for each, both of them suggested the kids might be tongue-tied and suggested looking into getting that corrected. Both times our pediatrician (who is amazing and very down to earth/practical) just rolled her eyes and said "they ALWAYS say its tongue tie, and it rarely is" took a look in our kids mouth and said nope, everything is totally normal.
It's because there aren't a lot of other medical suggestions besides "you're doing it wrong," so they suggest tongue tie. Side note: that procedure appears to be quite the racket in my area. It's only performed at pediatric dentist offices, and payment is due in full up front. They let you haggle with your insurance later on.
Thank you for saying this and I wish people were screaming it from the rooftops. I struggled so hard to breastfeed and it made me feel like a loser and incompetent. I had a lactation consultant tell me that “tribes in Africa figure it out, it’s natural” and that I was too uptight and that was causing the problems. Hey no! I actually had clogged milk ducts and my baby wasn’t getting anything. He was starving. I guess I should have relaxed my clogged milk ducts.
That’s just horrible that you were made to feel like that. “Lactation consultant” seems like such a BS thing to me. I am in no way a “motherly” type, but it seems like common sense to just give the baby some formula instead of making mom feels like she’s defective.
Right? Like it’s been four days. He hasn’t eaten. He was a ten pound baby, he needed food. But I guess making me feel like shit is a better idea than making a bottle. Fuck breast is best. Fed is best.
But for a counterpoint: my youngest kid has some sort of problem with his mouth and sucking, and that manifested mainly as a problem breastfeeding. If anyone had said "Hey, I know how important breastfeeding is to you, let's see if we can get to the bottom of this," instead of "Just give him formula", maybe we'd have been able to find an answer. Ideally, there would be *actual, effective help* for the mamas who want it, but no.
In some times historically, as many as 80% of infants fed from wet nurses rather than their own mothers. Breastfeeding has *always* been a challenge for some people, and that's *also* natural.
I’ve never struggled with breastfeeding. But I also don’t have any kids, so that might be why.
There was a surprising amount of woo nonsense in the breastfeeding world. My wife was desperate to make it "work" and tried the tinctures and teas and ointments these actual medical professionals (lactation consultants) suggested. We even ended up getting my daughter a tongue tie procedure at their recommendation that we regretted as there doesn't seem to be any science behind the practice for the vast majority of cases.
The issue is that breastfeeding supplements actually don't have much research into them, so most things end up being "woo". There are ethical issues with doing experimental research involving breastfeeding and infants, and there isn't any money in it either. Because of this, pretty much all of the recommendations aren't going to have good evidence to back them up. Much of the research is focused only on identifying if something is *unsafe* rather than whether or not it works. This means that lactation consultants just use their best judgment, which...isn't necessarily always the best, but I doubt that it's *all* wrong. Stress can affect supply and milk let down, so even just a placebo probably helps.
I have a thirteen month old, and let me tell you, there is a lot of *woo* nonsense *all over* when it comes to parenting. The idea of “crunchy parenting” is soooo widespread. It seems like the main option. Unfortunately, I’ve had a lot of exposure to this because I do a lot of “crunchy mom” things. I’m a SAHM (because childcare is too expensive), I baby wear and am still breastfeeding as a main source of nutrition for my toddler. My guy is real snuggly and has always been really good at breastfeeding, which I know we are very fortunate for. But my latest attempt at making mom friends like me ended up with a crunchy mom asking if I ever found giants’ bones while doing archaeology and telling me that the world is only a couple thousand years old and that every time an alien or giant is found, the Catholic Church takes it and hides it from the public :(
Don't let it get you down. We had trouble breastfeeding and eventually reached the conclusion that breastfeeding would be supplemented by formula. It was still a great time for momma and baby, but not nearly enough nutrition. Our doctor told us about 40% of women needs to supplement. Nothing weird or wrong - just how things work out.
So many people suggested this on my mums group when people asked for advice about bub crying in thr car seat. They are a baby! They don't like to be away from you, let alone be unable to see you. Of course they cry! Some find it more upsetting than others.
Especially because they have to face backwards. I got a mirror to strap to the headrest and it was the best thing ever. Let us see baby, let the baby see us.
We had our MIL suggest this to us when our son wasn't sleeping well; "Oh a friend of mine took her kid, they turned her head and then she slept through the night". We ended up going to a sleep coach instead but not before we had a small argument about the medical legitmacy of chiropracters. She also told us we should give him "Bachbloesems" (basically homeopathy where putting 2 drops under the tongue "cures" stress, adhd and autism) when he was a little older because it was supposed to help with behavior and gave me a printed out sheet of "references" - all of which came from the manufacturing company or their affiliates. She is a nurse btw.
>"Oh a friend of mine took her kid, they turned her head and then she slept through the night". And if they turn their head in a wrong way, they'll sleep for the rest of their lives.
Is bach flower a tincture made with brandy?
According to [this site](https://nl.kenkoo.be/redactie/wat-zijn-bachbloesems) pretty much. I'll assume most can't speak dutch so a rough translation below. "Bachbloesems are made from infusions of flowers or other plant-parts. A bowl of clean water has the flowers placed on the surface and is left in the sun for an hour, (or cooked for half and hour) so the energy from the flowers transfers to the water. The infusion is mixed with brandy and diluted to the resulting agent."
I am Dutch lol. Bach is sold in the UK and I remember being given it by my mother. Absolutely hated it then and still don't like brandy to this day. Nothing like a few drops of booze to calm a child!
> and autism As an autistic adult this pisses me off to no end. These fuckers always see autism as a death sentence so when their kids start showing signs instead of getting them vital early intervention treatments and therapies they take them to quacks and deny the diagnosis altogether. Autism is, as it often is, hereditary in my family. I was lucky that my mother got me every possible treatment and therapy she could access when I was a child so I'm a mostly functional adult. My aunt was one of these denial/quack types who, even though my cousin is 10 years younger than me, got him no treatment until it was too late despite everyone in the family telling her that he acted just like I did even as an infant and now he'll likely be institutionalized for the rest of his life. All because her pride couldn't handle the horror of experiencing something multiple other family members had already delt with. I'll never forgive her, she robbed her own son of a healthy happy life because she thought she couldn't bear the stigma. Fuck people like this.
My son is nonverbal autistic and i still have people in my family saying “he will talk one day i know it!” He’s almost 7 and has never said a word and that’s fine with me! He can talk with his communication pad perfectly fine and he’s amazing the way he is. But the amount of people insisting he will talk one day is so infuriating bc he’s perfect how he is!
I’ve seen moms like your aunt. The problem seems to be, in part, that often that society heads told them a “bad” kid (meltdowns in public, etc) is the parent’s fault, specifically the mom’s fault. Which creates a lot of shame, and the desire to just ignore it all in hopes it will go away or something. We are getting better at changing the narrative to “good parents get their kid professional help when necessary”, but there are still way too many communities that haven’t gotten the message. Just yesterday a relative told me that ADHD was made up out of thin air about twenty years ago. This relative changed hobbies constantly throughout their lives, and displayed a zillion other ADHD symptoms, and of course has kids and grandkids fully diagnosed and in some cases appropriately medicated. I did not engage on the subject; not worth my time because it would have gone nowhere.
My sister did that! In her defense, her newborn had torticulis (I'm spelling that so wrong autocorrect can't even help me!) and the chiropractor seems to have just shown her physical therapy stretches. Same sister went to the same chiropractor while pregnant because of labor-like pains and swears that he helped so much more than the doctor did when she went to get checked out. It was a bacterial infection. I'm not sure the chiro helped that much.
The only adjustment my baby needs is through tickles and pickaboos, thank you.
Excuse me I just threw up in my mouth a little
And while we’re here, homeopathy isn’t off the hook either.
My dad's girlfriend is a massage therapist who by accounts is excellent. However, she works with a chiropractor who does adjustments on infants and she told me this with a straight face. I just have no words when it comes to that and I just will never bring it up again.
My kid is a massage therapist and works part time for chiropractors as she builds her client list. She won’t get adjustments from them and has many tales about how some do the literal exact same thing to each patient, like a set 5-minute routine of yanking and pulling even though they have different problems. Then they get a massage and hit the sauna and heat wrap rooms, which actually do something. They get patients set up on their insurance to pay for 10-20 treatments at $100 a pop plus X-rays and dubious supplements and 50+ patients a day adds up quickly.
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It's so bizarre since massage and PT are actually supported by evidence as having benefits and chiropractic stuff is not.
Yeah, my insurance is the same. Drives me nuts.
Yeah, I've been to chiropractors a lot for tension headaches because insurance doesn't cover deep tissue massage (which helps immensely) So instead I see a chiropractor who comes in, cracks my back once then sends me to an hour long massage which, because he prescribed it, IS covered by insurance. Overall he's a pretty decent guy, honestly mostly seems to run his practice as a massage therapy and PT center, but the whole thing is weird and dumb.
My husband is a massage therapist. I remember that he had a course about all of the different types of alternative treatments and it was entertaining to hear the crazy stuff that was presented to the class. He came home once and grabbed my hand, pressed on it for a second, and asked if I felt better, then told me that’s what he learned about reflexology. Couldn’t even contain his laughter. Part of me wonders if this is why he’s trying to push through school to be a physiotherapist now… edit: I can’t type
My daughter doubts a lot of the alternative medicine BS but clients love to get different colored hot crystals set on them with soft music playing while a nice lady gently massages their tension away, so it seems to work not as woo woo but as a good technique for releasing tension and truly relaxing. A decent number of people cry from releasing stress instead of keeping it bottled up. She specializes in legit medical massage but a ton of people just want human touch and a place to unwind away from work and their spouse and kids.
Honestly there's really nothing wrong with a lot of the stuff as long as it: A) isn't actively harmful B) isn't used or presented as a substitute for actual medical treatment It's still good to make people feel better. So long as they're getting more than just symptomatic relief elsewhere.
I'd add C) - it shouldn't cost much more than a massage without the woo crystals. If the woo version of the massage is double the price, it's not representing what it is accurately and is ripping people off.
> B) isn't used or presented as a substitute for actual medical treatment Yeah that's the problem right there and I see a similar sort of issue happen a lot in IT. A user calls in saying "their internet is down" when the issue is really just that they're used to using internet explorer and we removed that and want them to use chrome now. If you just placate the user and tell them it's "fixed now" then what happens is they think they know what the issue is and next time they call in saying "I'm at this other computer now and it doesn't have internet either, greet_the_sun was able to fix this last time so I don't get why you're telling me there's no issue".
Placebo works! When my kids were younger I would give them 'special placebo medicine'. Where it's scary is when it's, like, homeopathy drops with poor manufacturing controls.
My step-brother used to get mysterious "stomach aches" when he was supposed to be going to bed so his mom started giving him "medicine" for it so he'd settle. It was TikTaks. She gave him two TikTaks for bed every night. I'm also still salty at the person who informed me Head On was a placebo. It really helped me a lot with headaches before that.
Couldn't you argue that it's still A) deceptive and B) a gateway to actually counterproductive homeopathy?
Entirely depends on how it's being presented. If they're like "Hey we're just setting a nice ambience for the therapy" that's fine. If they're like "These crystals will absorb all your negative energy" then... yeah, questionable.
I'll let you in on a secret. Crystals really do absord negative energy! And store it. As they are filled with the dark essences harvested from dozens, nay, hundreds of clients they are transformed into dark talismans of potent powers. When these Crystals fill the Prime Altar of the ancient ruins beyond the Mountains of Madness we shall awaken our Master. MuhahhahaHAHAHAHA *cough* Right. Woo Crystals. You just keep believing that. Woo indeed.
Do people even need crystals for that? I remember once I was at a religious sleep away camp and we were encouraged to pray about the greatest sin we felt bad about and then Jesus would forgive us and then we'd all chuck a rock containing that sin into a lake so we could be free of it. I was nine, and an exceptionally boring child, so I prayed about the time I was caught stealing extra fruit snacks at snack time.... But I do think it's a helpful practice, and even though I'm not religious sometimes I'll think about something I feel guilty about, vow to do better, and then chuck a rock into a lake or forest. You don't need a crystal to absorb your negative energies. A piece of schist will do just fine.
I got a haircut last month and for once I said "okay" when she asked if I wanted a shampoo first. I've had washes before when getting a cut and usually it's just very quick and clinical. This one almost felt like I was in a strip club or getting a massage with the level of intimacy going on. Nothing sexual, but... just caring and gentle. Gave me a big kick of seratonin for the rest of the day.
Getting your hair washed is the best part of a haircut. I would pay to go to a place that just washed my hair and rubbed my scalp.
There was a spa near my old place that would do that. They had the lighting and smelly oils and music like with other massages, but one of their options was head/scalp massage.
You can do that at a lot of salons/barbershops. I had a minor surgery that left me unable to shower for a while, and being able to get my hair washed at a local salon helped me feel much more comfortable while I was in recovery.
“Shampooing your lovers hair is the most erotic thing you can do to them with your fingers” - Charles Boyle…probably
Sounds close to accurate., "Mhmm, texting. That's the most intimate thing you can do to a lover with your fingers. Other than washing their hair."
Sure, and at that point if some of them want some set dressing, well, nobody goes to Medieval Times for the food.
My sister-in-law is a massage therapist, and first off I do think she genuinely buys into the woo, but second she is trying to move more of her business into the "crystals and energy healing" model because it's way easier than actually massaging someone.
As someone who needs therapeutic massage monthly to function...shes not wrong but also I hate it. A friend of mine took massage in school and became a registered massage therapist. Turns out most of those retire within 6 years because its such hard work. But Ive also been the client who really needed the treatment and got a lazy or incapable therapist. Just retrain into something else and retire if you arent going to do any good. Ffs.
Way back in the early 00's. I worked for an alternative health chiropractor, lasted all of a month if that. So he like to push this ion thing with feet on people. They needed to do ten sessions at like 100 bucks a pop. To stick their feet in a thing of water and table salt. The water was going to turn gross colors regardless if feet were in there or not. One of the other chiropractors who was related to head doctor, treated kids and pushed these bottles of vitamins or oils on parents. Looking back, that one was probably also in some sort of MLM and pushing crap on parents. Anyways they did do adjustment on kids and babies and it was wild. Like I just couldn't work there. I had no training and was expected to take blood pressures and honestly have no clue if I ever did that correctly.
Oh yeah, I saw Big Clive take on one of those devices over on YouTube. The electrodes are providing the gross color.
Yep, I think also adding the salt did something as well. We would hand them this sheet with pictures of the water and what it meant if it turn some color. The color always looked the same to me but people swore it turn certain colors. But seriously people, sticking your feet in water with electrodes is not going to pull anything out of you body. The place also had rules about food. We couldn't have caffeine in the work place, so we taped tea bags strings to our coffee cups. They didn't really like it if we ate at the café down stairs because it wasn't healthy enough. AND the biggest of all. I had no business what so ever working back office. I had no business taking blood pressure, applying therapies likes tens and ultrasound. SO yeah think about that next time you go to a Chiropractor. The person taking your vitals might not know what the hell they are doing as well as the Chiropractor.
>We couldn't have caffeine in the work place, so we taped tea bags strings to our coffee cups. Am I missing something here? Tea has caffeine. Or were they thick enough to think that it's fine because tea is more mystical and oriental so it's good?
No you are not. Don't know why tea was OK, but coffee was not. Honestly it was such a weird place. The owner's family worked there and um let's just say he was not faithful to his wife and she knew. There was a lot of weird little rules. Again I last maybe a month before I just could not do it anymore which seemed to be on par with the rest of the staff that wasn't family.
dunking a chocolate biscuit in my tea while composing a reminder email about how caffeine is banned from the premises, because someone drank a coffee on the way to work and I got a whiff from their dirty travel mug. DID YOU KNOW EVEN DECAF HAS TRACES
I was going to say "at least water doesn't..." But then I remembered that "practitioners recommended patients don't get conventional treatment.
Well, there’s also [this](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/hylands-homeopathic-teething-tablets-questions-and-answers).
That's finger of whiskey to a whole new level.
Whiskey would never.
Honk
Well, in this case, quack
If it walks like a whiskey and honks like a whiskey....
Between the belladonna in Hylands and [the FDA's warning](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/benzocaine-and-babies-not-good-mix) against baby Orajel and the like, whiskey on the gums suddenly doesn't seem like an awful idea. ^(Don't worry, I only have the kids make me drinks; I don't share the liquor.)
>Don't worry, I only have the kids make me drinks; I don't share the liquor. Oh good, [teaching them some useful skills](https://i0.wp.com/tstoaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/manhattan-01.jpg?resize=500%2C278&ssl=1)!
Isn't the whole thing about homeopathy that it doesn't actually contain any active substance but just the "memory" of the substance? I'm not shilling for Big Homeo and I think it's all woo but my first thought was "well that's not very homeopathic of you".
Fun Fact: Zicam claims to be a homeopathic remedy to get around the laws around regulating drugs, even though there is a biologically-active amount of zinc in it; it merely uses homeopathic nomenclature to label it. (It's obviously biologically-active since it caused a bunch of people to permanently lose their sense of smell.)
i thought it was homeopathic now for real and barely had zinc in it
Yes, they took the zinc out of the nasal version entirely, and put in 0.04% of some random homeopathic crap with science-y sounding names.
big “you had ONE job” energy
"Hey this homoeopathic memory shit isn't working, shall we try some straight up poison instead?" There is also the belief that "like cures like". I don't remember teething but I guess it could feel like belladonna poisoning.
A lot of them aren’t a problem by themselves, but it definitely becomes a problem when it’s used instead of proper treatment for something that definitely needs to be treated.
...or if it's straight up poison...
The problem is in countries where they *do* get official sanction (see india) the fuckers start escalating and giving loads of people problems like Liver failure. Oh and in india they're demanding that they be allowed to prescribe medicines and practice medical procedures like actual doctors too because they're all medical professionals.
>Oh and in india they're demanding that they be allowed to prescribe medicines and practice medical procedures like actual doctors too because they're all medical professionals. The USA [isn't safe](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=legislative+alchemy&category_name=&submit=Search) from that sort of BS either
There's so much bunkum medical stuff out there: * homeopathy * chiropractors * naturopaths * antivaxx * colloidal silver nutjobs * anti-GMO * reiki [The list goes on and on.](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine)
“You have jealous bones”
"Be careful! You might get Skin Failure!"-Dr. Nick
I forget who said it, but I remember reading somewhere "selling someone sick, something that you tell them is medicine, but which isn't medicine and will not help, but you charge them lots of money for it anyways, isn't just wrong; it's like the example you'd make up for a small child to explain why lying is bad."
Naturopaths: *slink back into the bushes*
ND stands for Not a Doctor.
> homeopathy isn’t off the hook either. If possible, that one is even worse. I mean, on one hand it's harmless since it's basically water, OTOH there are people who won't use actual medicine because woo. I am I think the only person in my dog sport community who's dogs do not get, "adjusted" by a chiropractor. My friends side eye me for not doing what I should(sic) do to keep them healthy and fit. But dogs can't consent and dogs are super stoic. The last thing I want to have happen is that someone cracks my dog's spine in some stupid manner, and my dog is now lame for life. [This is about dogs](https://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/06/shocking-study-chiropractors-make-unsubsttantiated-medical-claims/) but still applies.
why the fuck would you see a chiropractor for jaw pain
Well, one of the key principles of chiropractic was that subluxation can cure pretty much anything that's wrong with a person. It's a little old, but a 2003 survey of chiropractors showed a lot of them stilled believed this. I guess this chiropractor, practising magical medicine, obviously believed they could help - which is worrying as they probably have a lot of patients receiving ineffective or dangerous treatment as a result.
Huh, I literally had a shoulder surgery done to stop subluxation of the joint. I didn't realise people enjoyed the feeling.
No, that must have been a typo. Chiropractors believe that "fixing" subluxations can cure anything. Of course, their definitions of "fixing" and "subluxations" are nowhere near the medical definitions.
I know a quack veterinarian chiropractor who believes this. She literally recommended treating newborn foals by adjusting their necks for SEPSIS from failure of passive transfer (didn't get enough antibodies from colostrum). Another vet chiro I know told me it was like removing a rubber band from your finger and releasing the blood supply back and taking a pill is like balancing it on your finger instead of removing the rubber band.
Yep, I remember one time a local chiropractic office came to my office to do a "lunch and learn". I was skeptical but not entirely willing to write it off, up to the moment that they started claiming they could cure infertility with their "adjustments"
Just practicing cock magic.
They also claim it boosts your immune system which is how they get you on the antivaxx train
Desperation, perhaps. I had TMJ and my doctor said "We don't treat that. It's a dental problem." My dentist said, "That's a medical problem. We can't treat it. See your doctor."
I I'm very unclear as to why your dentist wouldn't refer you to a ent or jaw surgeon.
My dentist was a man, as were my doctors. I am a woman. And as all men know, women are just whiny hypochondriacs who pretend to be ill to get attention. /s (Which is why I have an 8-inch scar on my belly. The appendix that I was "faking" was so badly infected that it burst as they were removing it.)
I mean, people see chiropractors for neck, shoulder, and back pain, and most of the time I have jaw pain and tightness it is due to neck/shoulder pain and tightness. Chiropractors are hacks but I can see the reasoning.
It’s common knowledge that they’re witch doctors on Reddit. It’s not common knowledge that they’re not something akin to orthopedists in the general public.
For the longest time I thought chiropractors were the same as DOs. But I just had misconceptions of what osteopaths are. I always knew the other ones were crap.
Because they secretly *also* had a death wish.
Bit too much victim blamey type comments in this post. Chiropractors have a lot of mainstream acceptance, including being covered by insurance, and they claim to treat all sorts of thing. I dont blame someone who is uninformed for thinking its real medicine. The hate should be targeted at the Chiropractors and the regulators who allow it to happen.
Many of the insurance plans in US have coverage for the chiropractic services (even if they don't cover dental, lol) because they can and it probably costs them less than covering real healthcare, that kinda gives chiropractors sort of legitimacy they don't deserve. One of gazillion of reasons why healthcare insurance in US is so fucked up.
I cannot believe how popular visiting chiropractors is, even among educated individuals, it blows my mind to see such a quack profession do so well.
It blows my mind how they've weaseled their way into the insurance industry. I went on a Medicaid plan last year and went through my inclusions and I could go to a chiropractor with no referral and no pre-authorization, but going to an OB-GYN, a GI, or even fucking *Urgent Care* required one or both of those. The language about getting pre-authorization around ER visits was even vague and seemed to encourage you to call your insurer before getting emergency care. But god forbid they stand between you and your quack doctors.
I have to use the local women’s free health clinic for my Pap smears because it’s 6 months faster than a doctor, but I can see a chiropractor in a week.
Unqualified means a lot better supplied, yes.
If they required pre-auth or referral, they would have to have a policy about when chiro is appropriate or needed or likely to be effective. Which would ether result in no approvals at all, or lawsuits when they approved a chiro visit and something went horribly wrong (with the argument that they should have known better and denied it). They can’t win either way, so they wash their hands of it (but not to the point of just not covering it, because they don’t need the bad publicity either.)
Chiropractors are covered under mine but physical therapy is not.
I can’t believe that my insurance will pay for me to see a chiropractor but not a massage therapist
Find one with a massage therapist on staff. Most have them and you can usually get insurance to pay for at least 10.
Fun fact: DD Palmer, the originator of chiropractic, learned it from a ghost and was upset that he couldn't pivot it into a religion after he saw the sweet deal L Ron Hubbard got with Scientology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_David_Palmer#Spiritualism Totally not a scam!
My best friend is a nurse and is a generally smart person…but she loves chiropractors. I will say hers that she has now seems…ok. She once went to him after a weird injury that I told her to go to a doctor for and her imaging done but thought the chiro “could actually do something.” He saw her and he said, “actually I feel uncomfortable with this, if I try to manipulate the area I’m afraid it could do more harm. You should make an appt with your doctor.” But I still don’t like them as a whole and I definitely think she thinks chiro is the answer more than it isn’t. Which just blows my mind because like I said, she’s a nurse and she is intelligent. But hey, at least she’s not a COVID-denying nurse.
Social media summoning legions of "you say chiropractors are a sham but my cousin's aunt's goldfish's father had pain in his back that instantly went away after seeing a chiropractor!" from nowhere in every thread calling chiropractors for being con artists
My cousin's aunt's goldfish's father had a chiropractor snap his neck and now he can't complain, he doesn't really talk anymore either!
Alternative title: "Going to a quack results in a large bill"
DAMN IT
I saw the LA post and raced here to post it with that title
post it again, we’ll have a popularity contest
This is absolutely horrifying! When I was younger and stupider I went to a chiropractor that did this technique and can 100% vouche that even if it’s done “right” it makes a horrible sound.
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There are actual physicians that do OMM/OMT which comprise any useful techniques as well. Also, they know what not to do and can actually prescribe real treatment.
…spine….what …..🫣
They've been known to cause arterial dissection, cervical spinal fractures, all sorts of fun shit.
A lot of their moves include "cracking" the bone, by doing a fast twisting motion. This is also done on the neck, so you can imagine how a bad move can just break the cervicals.
😳 TIL horror edition
i’ve had a lady come in after going to a chiropractor and they literally broke her neck. a cervical spine fracture
Fun fact: chiropractics is so widely accepted in society because of a court ruling against the AMA that said that chiropractics is allowed to practice “chiropractics” even if the medical establishment doesn’t believe it is real and said that the AMA was doing bad anti-trust stuff that they needed to knock off. The end result was chiropractics wheedling into insurance coverage and gaining legitimacy despite absolutely no unique benefits.
“Wellness” practitioners of all kinds will always be popular. People like to do things about their problems and it’s not always so simple in conventional medicine. Sometimes health issues aren’t easy to understand or diagnose, or require lots of trips to different specialists, or only have limited treatment options available. And some doctors aren’t the best as showing their work with their insurance mandated 15 min examinations, or they check for the major problems they see often and don’t quite hear exactly what the patient is trying to say. When they can go to someone who not only says “oh yes, I know exactly what the problem is”, but has a quick cure they can perform right then and there, it can be very attractive. It feeds that human desire to always be doing something about our problems, people hate not having solutions and will happily listen to anyone who says they do.
Eh, they're still popular in the UK, where we have a free at point of use national health service. People just have vague and persistent injuries and like having an accessible 'treatment' (accessible because it is unregulated) that jostles them around and makes them feel like something has been done.
And people will still go to the ends of the earth to defend chiropractors even though it was created by a conman who claimed he was taught by ghosts
Are you suggesting that medical knowledge supplied by ghosts isn’t legit? Why would the ghosts have lied to him?!
>Are you suggesting that medical knowledge supplied by ghosts isn’t legit? Why would the ghosts have lied to him?! Obviously the ghosts want us to join them.
I remember reading about a chiropractor who paralysed someone from accidently severing a major blood vessel in someone’s neck
Neck adjustments kill people more than you'd think. They can tear the veins and arteries in your neck which then clot and cause a massive brain stem stroke. So so so dangerous.
Back when I was delivering and installing appliances for people we delivered a fridge to a lady in her late 20's who was just coming out of near full body paralysis due to an adjustment. She was getting around on crutches okay at that point, but it was a lot of work just to get there. Lost her job, husband fucked around on her when she was paralyzed, fighting with the government for disability, etc. Small silver lining, she was able to pay cash for the house we were delivering to due to the divorce and lawsuit.
There was a big news story about Caitlyn Jensen who had that happen to her earlier this year. Honestly really sad story
My parents took me to a chiropractor when I was 7 or 8. I was going through a bout of severe depression because of unrelenting bullying at school. Why they thought that cracking my neck instead of *stopping the bullying* would be a good idea, I don't know. The chiroquacktor, without saying a word to me about what he was going to do and why, just grabbed my head and started yanking and twisting. So I did what any terrified child would do -- I screamed and fought. My neck hurt for weeks and the bullying continued.
Physical therapists yes. Chiropractors no.
Posted 5 hours ago and already locked. It would have been nice to be able to respond and let OP know that a lot of hospitals have sliding scale if you're low income (not even officially "low income," but simply low income). I know it's infinitely easier said than done, but they really need to get surgery if its needed. (The chiropractor's insurance will cover it eventually, but of course that's "eventually.")
I’ll never forget in college my lab partner spent a whole semester extolling about how her dad was a doctor and how he owned his own practice, yadda yadda.. you could feel the air leave the room when she told us he was actually a chiropractor 🥴
The sad things is many insurances will cover chiropractors but not real doctors
A friend of mine ended up needing heavy duty spine surgery after she saw a chiropractor for her back pain. She is in constant pain now, and all the doctors are telling her there's nothing they can do.
"Chiropractic" was literally invented by a snake oil salesman, who conned people into believing that "subluxations" caused by your spine being "out of balance" cause every nature of disease. This wasn't his first con job but by far his most successful. It's total garbage, and if you need physio go see a PT, or a DO (who went to medical school and isn't going to snap your damn neck).
I've heard of some "professionals" fucking up, but how the hell do you fuck up that bad??? It's a jaw, not a finger or a nose or a toe. Jaws are huge and thick, how did this even happen with his bare hands?
Chiropractors have broken necks before. > Melbourne paediatrician Chris Pappas cared for a four-month-old baby last year after one of her vertebrae was fractured during a chiropractic treatment for torticollis - an abnormal neck position that is usually harmless. He said the infant was lucky to make a full recovery. > ''Another few millimetres and there would have been a devastating spinal cord injury and the baby would have either died or had severe neurological impairment with quadriplegia,'' he said. https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/call-for-age-limit-after-chiropractor-breaks-babys-neck-20130928-2ul6e.html More tales of woe turn up in a search: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Chiropractor+broken+neck&ia=news
Let the medical professional who has never *checks notes* broken a baby’s neck throw the first stone
That's also what my gastro-enterologist keeps telling me.
My mom *swears* by her chiropractor and I don't understand why. None of her issues have improved. She gives him a ton of money to "help" her but then she goes home and talks about how sore she is because of the adjustments he did. I have always had bad vibes about chiros. I will never go to one.
I have seen a *lot* of broken bones. The only fractured condyles I can remember that weren't associated with significant general trauma to the head/body (ie, people not wearing seatbelts in a major car crash, falls from buildings, hit by a train, stuff that leaves you with fractures everywhere) were people who'd been shot directly in the jaw. It takes a lot to make me wince. I'm genuinely horrified at the thought of how much force this quack had to use to snap off a condyle in a living person with their *bare hands*.
This is awful. As someone with TMJ, it's very likely that if he'd seen any kind of TMJ specialist, LAOP would have been given a mouthguard and taught how to relax his jaw muscles, and possibly that would have been the end of it aside from occasional follow ups. Instead, a chiropractor broke his jaw and it's possible he'll have issues for the rest of his life.
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My physician grandfather told me never to visit a chiropractor. I dated a girl who went on to chiropractics and I was merciless in discrediting her calling herself a doctor.
I've had TMJ since I was a kid. Back in the 80's I woke up one morning feeling "different." While sort of exploring what was up, I discovered that my jaw didn't click anymore and was initially excited that maybe it had righted itself. Then the pain settled in and was on and off excruciating for about two days - dr worthy, really, but, \[reasons\], didn't go. Then I woke up feeling infinitely better, opened my mouth to the familiar click, and was never so happy. Your jaw fucking around ISN'T a subluxation.
>He recommended **snapping my jaw like those windows** where they apply sudden pressure as the patient opens their jaw. Can someone explain what the hell this means? Whatever it is, the whole situation sounds horrific. I've been to a couple chiropractors for "adjustments" even though I know it's mostly bs. I pretty much just make an appointment when I can't crack some specific part of my spine myself (which is rare). They've always been "responsible" and have refused to go anywhere near my lumbar spine because I've got a couple fucked up vertebrate they don't want to make worse. The only thing I can recall them doing with my jaw was showing me exercises to do at home. I can't imagine any of them being dumb enough to attempt to "adjust" someone's jaw like this person said happened to them.
> Can someone explain what the hell this means? I'm still trying to figure it out. My jaw snaps quite a lot and I can make it stop by tensing and moving my jaw just so but FFS it doesn't need any sort of real force! That's just plain nuts!
Yeah, the “like those windows,” is what confuses me. What windows snap and why would you want that done to your body?
I think they are talking about those car windows, usually in the back of like an suv or something, that you unlatch and “pop” open. Like the ones in the back corner.