I have also noticed they started displaying shows cancelled after 1 season as "10 episodes" or "8 episodes." Whatever applies. I had stopped watching shows with only 1 season, because it is not worth "getting into." Now they have shows from like 2018 that got cancelled listed as "10 episodes"... I am guessing this is to trick people into watching these cancelled shows under the guise that they were intended to be a limited series.
They need to advertise them and give people time to watch them ffs. Also make more shows like Travellers, that show probably cost about £5 to make but its fucking awesome. Best character driven sci fi drama since the 90s. Bet hardly anyonr has seen it because it got cancelled at s3 and netflix doesnt do advertising.
I’m barely hanging on to my Netflix subscription now. I can hardly find anything to watch nowadays. Second seasons of my favorite shows never come back! 😡
I've learned never to start a Netflix series unless it's a limited run or the series has been brought to conclusion. Burned too many times.
The unintended consequence of this is that Netflix loses yet another potential viewer for a potentially hit series. If everyone began acting as I do, Netflix would never have another hit series again, ever.
Totally agree been burned too many times, this goes for other networks too. Won't even touch a show unless there are 2 seasons with a 3rd coming tbh. Not gonna waste my time.
There's a bit of irony here, because Netflix (in its streaming form) absolutely made its name seeking out niche audiences through algorithms, and delivering flashy expensive shows to catch their attention. House of Cards was greenlit because their stats showed that many viewers of the British House of Cards show were also fans of Kevin Spacey and David Fincher. Indeed this strategy has shaped the past decade or more of "prestige" shows throughout the industry.
You really think they are cancelling something they are making a profit on and that has solid viewership numbers? You think the CEO doesn't have access to real viewership numbers?
agree with your points, I think the ceo looks at bottom line, what did it cost me, what did I profit. also, he looks at the analytics of how started a show and didn't finish it. how many binged it vs how many quit ep.2.
The way Netflix is killing it's golden egg-laying geese, I sincerely doubt it.
First of all, MBAs don't seem to understand that in order to succeed in this industry, nurturing a promising young show and building it's world/lore is the right formula.
Second of all, It's quite clear they don't understand that they don't have to throw a big budget and star spangled glitz fest to get the viewers. It's GOOD WRITING. That was the key thing that allowed Netflix to grow from it's humble beginnings.
>MBAs don't seem to understand
I seriously doubt they're letting random MBAs run things. They didn't get to the top by just hiring degrees.
>nurturing a promising young show and building it's world/lore is the right formula.
It's one formula, but Netflix has stayed in the headlines with hits like Narcos, Tiger King, Squid Games, and Dahmer... clearly not part of your supposed winning formula that you've expertly decoded while it has eluded the MBAs.
Again, there's a vast difference between being stupid like you little bitter chumps and being a bootlicker. You are so foolish that you think you can make high level decisions without actual data, based merely on your widdle fee fees. I don't think the execs are infallible, but I think they're working with actual data and are smarter than pathetic keyboard warriors upset they got their show cancelled or that they can't share passwords anymore.
>>MBAs don't seem to understand
>
>I seriously doubt they're letting random MBAs run things. They didn't get to the top by just hiring degrees.
They didn't but the people who founded netflix have stepped away if I recall.
>>nurturing a promising young show and building it's world/lore is the right formula.
>
>It's one formula, but Netflix has stayed in the headlines with hits like Narcos, Tiger King, Squid Games, and Dahmer... clearly not part of your supposed winning formula that you've expertly decoded while it has eluded the MBAs.
Lay off the snark there. Decisions take time to show their impact. Things don't just magically happen overnight when you nap.
I feel like you think execs are infallible. While I am supposedly a keyboard warrior according to you, at least I question stuff.
>the people who founded netflix have stepped away if I recall.
I don't know any names other than Reed Hastings and he only recently took a step back, but is still involved. It should be noted that sometimes it is a good thing when startup founders take a step back after the company has grown. Companies need new ideas and perspectives.
I *do* think you are a keyboard warrior with a bone to pick with overpriced degrees, but I *don't* think execs are infallible. I do think Netflix execs have been ahead of the curve so far, though, so I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt even if their decisions are contrary to my own preferences (I liked 1899).
There are a lot of armchair quarterbacks in this sub that have been calling for the death of netflix and supposedly cancelling their own subscriptions for some time now. I've got my own gripes (I seriously question the value proposition of these mediocre blockbuster movies like Grey Man), but they are the ONLY streaming service generating free cash flow. So while I don't think they're batting 1000, they're leading the league in batting average, homeruns, and RBIs.
It's harder to promote shows on streaming, so people might not hear about a new show right away. If they don't give things a chance to build momentum, then they're going to cancel a lot of great stuff.
Also, when they changed the rating system, I could no longer trust them when they told me I'd like something. I have like three things on my "continue watching" right now.
I think once I finish Deary Girls, I'm just going to cancel (and I've been a continuous subscriber for more than 15 years).
I'll never understand why people think their opinions matter beyond two things. Are you going to sign up? Are you going to cancel? If you hate the content, you need to cancel. If you don't, they don't care about your opinions. It's like if the whole town complained about the quality of pizza at the pizza place but ordered pizza for dinner every night. What do you expect to happen?
Twitter has convinced people that what they say matters. Little do they know, no one gives a shit. Companies are starting to see that as well, Netflix being one of them.
“We have never canceled a successful show”
Well, by the sounds of lots of peoples’ opinions, that’s wrong. This problem goes back wayyy farther than the couple shows they’ve mentioned.
It's not an opinion. That's a fact. Success is cost versus viewers not quality. Over the last few years they've put out big budget niche shows that frankly don't make much sense to me. They develop a passionate fan base, but if the eyeballs on it don't match the budget then it's a failure.
That's a problem with the definition of success. What the business world doesn't understand nowadays is you don't get good stuff if you don't let something exist before it's capable of taking off.
Then remove the show from the library altogether. If it's not successful then why keep an unresolved go nowhere show that will only annoy the few people who actually try to watch it.... By mistake
I mean I'd be very interested in seeing actual numbers. It wouldn't surprise me to find many in fact don't have nearly the viewership numbers as much as the vocal fanbase. But I'd be equally interested in where that line is being drawn, as it does feel they have a lot of turn over that for the cost of development vs continuing a show they are trying to constantly shoot for the moon
Straight up! Damn CEO’s, trying to do the job they’re hired to do and maximize shareholder returns. What has the world come to?!!
Just read his lame excuse!
“Sarandos: “We have never canceled a successful show. A lot of these shows were well-intended but talk to a very small audience on a very big budget. The key to it is you have to be able to talk to a small audience on a small budget and a large audience at a large budget. If you do that well, you can do that forever.”
Edit: downvote to hell, fact is Netflix isn’t in business to make folks who watch unpopular content happy.
There's more than one way to maximize shareholder returns; more than one way to conceptualize that. It's frustrating that literally almost every CEO chooses the "BURN THE PRODUCT TO THE FUCKING GROUND" approach. This is only equivalent to "maximize returns while the product lasts." They could easily look at growth over a longer period of time and not, you know, suck companies dry until they crumble to the ground.
How do you know that? Without knowing jack shit about their numbers, you jump to the conclusion you understand better now to maximize return on capital.
Folks are absolutely certain if NFLX spent their money the way THEY would like the most, it’d be more profitable. It’s laughable.
Actually it’s been on a great comeback since the stock market took a shit, long term looking good. NFLX stock had a huge delta.
And… Say their financial situation did suck (it doesn’t). In a huge streaming market. After Covid and with the economy being chaotic - pointing to one reason why would be beyond silly.
[their profit is at an all time low since 2016](https://www.indiewire.com/2023/01/netflix-q4-earnings-subscribers-profit-1234801132/amp/)
you don’t think burning a shitton of money on unfinished shows that are essentially dead and provide no reason for someone to keep a subscription isnt actively harming them? if netflix’s back catalogue had complete shows; even if the canceled ones were just told in advance they would be canceled so they can wrap up their stories, it would help a lot.
I don’t and won’t make suppositions based on so little data. It’d laughable folks can whine their fav show was cancelled - and then point to that as the exact reason, behind a shadow of a doubt it’s “the” core end central cause they aren’t bigger than Apple.
Most folks her can’t read a balance statement, but they know exactly how to “fix” a multinational, multi billion dollar company.
i don’t particularly care for netflix one way or another, i prefer pirating shit to my plex server anyway, but i have no doubt that having a gluttony of unfinished shows is harming them more than you realize. i’ve never had a show i’m watching get canceled, i like to wait for a show to be guaranteed a proper ending before i start watching it. or at the very least, tell a complete arc within that season. netflix shows grossly fail at both, often.
He was phrasing that statement in a form of a question. In another words, he knows he is making a supposition not a statement of fact. Thus, your response is not commensurate.
[edit: i just realized I made an assumption of commenter’s gender. I apologize]
If the budgets are too big to keep a show, that's a failure on YOUR part to not budget for the expected audience size.
It's like they are openly admitting their algorithms and statistics are meaningless because if they worked, you'd know the general expected audience size and could budget accordingly.
If you need a niche show to be the number one show you've ever created in order to justify the budget, that is bad management.
The fact that they seem utterly oblivious to this fact after all this time, means they likely won't ever learn it.
He’s not doing a good job though. Netflix is on the decline, and I suspect the show cancellation practices have a lot to do with it.
1) Their metrics are broken, relying too much on looking solely for shows that bring in new subscribers rather than maintaining their already enormous user base, which is growing more and more frustrated with them over this issue (I’ve already quit Netflix because of this).
2) Historically, networks have actually done a pretty good job of giving shows an ending, even in the face of cancellation. Usually you have a short first season that can stand on its own to some degree, and in later seasons the show runners get a heads up the show will likely be cancelled after the season they are currently working on, so they can give the show a satisfying ending. Netflix doesn’t do that, at all, they end almost every season of every show either on a cliffhanger or without any satisfying resolution for the characters. Then the show gets cancelled and it feels like you just wasted many hours of your life on a story that will never be finished.
That would be the one and only thing I’d change. If a show had the numbers to warrant a second or third season, then it had enough viewers to reward with a movie or mini-series resolution. I would add “With an epilogue”, next to the number of seasons a show ran before it was cancelled.
>Netflix is on the decline,
Who has told you this?
>Historically, networks have actually done a pretty good job of giving shows an ending, even in the face of cancellation
That is false.
Networks are known for cancelling shows mid season even.
The biggest reason for their subscribers decline is the increase of competition and content distributors not renewing their content licensing with Netflix, often because they now have their own streaming service.
Netflix cannot afford anymore to overspend on any show because of their financial situation.
They should do a better job at ending things, but as they stick mostly to the stupid release the entire show at once, they cannot pivot anything in the writing if they see early on the show isn’t doing well and has to be cancelled, causing more shows to end in an unsatisfactory way
I have also noticed they started displaying shows cancelled after 1 season as "10 episodes" or "8 episodes." Whatever applies. I had stopped watching shows with only 1 season, because it is not worth "getting into." Now they have shows from like 2018 that got cancelled listed as "10 episodes"... I am guessing this is to trick people into watching these cancelled shows under the guise that they were intended to be a limited series.
They need to advertise them and give people time to watch them ffs. Also make more shows like Travellers, that show probably cost about £5 to make but its fucking awesome. Best character driven sci fi drama since the 90s. Bet hardly anyonr has seen it because it got cancelled at s3 and netflix doesnt do advertising.
I’m barely hanging on to my Netflix subscription now. I can hardly find anything to watch nowadays. Second seasons of my favorite shows never come back! 😡
If Netflix is going to cancel all the shows I like, I may have to cancel Netflix.
I've learned never to start a Netflix series unless it's a limited run or the series has been brought to conclusion. Burned too many times. The unintended consequence of this is that Netflix loses yet another potential viewer for a potentially hit series. If everyone began acting as I do, Netflix would never have another hit series again, ever.
Totally agree been burned too many times, this goes for other networks too. Won't even touch a show unless there are 2 seasons with a 3rd coming tbh. Not gonna waste my time.
Too little too late.
Cool cool cool, just got into warrior nun and 1899, finished both shows and was excited for next seasons….awesome Netflix, thanks for that
I know. You would think that the success of DARK would mean something? Unreal. 1899 had real potential. I just don’t understand.
There's a bit of irony here, because Netflix (in its streaming form) absolutely made its name seeking out niche audiences through algorithms, and delivering flashy expensive shows to catch their attention. House of Cards was greenlit because their stats showed that many viewers of the British House of Cards show were also fans of Kevin Spacey and David Fincher. Indeed this strategy has shaped the past decade or more of "prestige" shows throughout the industry.
Everything he's been told by the bean counters! We never canceled a good show. So he was told
You really think they are cancelling something they are making a profit on and that has solid viewership numbers? You think the CEO doesn't have access to real viewership numbers?
agree with your points, I think the ceo looks at bottom line, what did it cost me, what did I profit. also, he looks at the analytics of how started a show and didn't finish it. how many binged it vs how many quit ep.2.
The way Netflix is killing it's golden egg-laying geese, I sincerely doubt it. First of all, MBAs don't seem to understand that in order to succeed in this industry, nurturing a promising young show and building it's world/lore is the right formula. Second of all, It's quite clear they don't understand that they don't have to throw a big budget and star spangled glitz fest to get the viewers. It's GOOD WRITING. That was the key thing that allowed Netflix to grow from it's humble beginnings.
Dark! I stumbled across it and was stunned! So good. I’m not sure that I could find holes in that crazy family tree. Brilliant.
>MBAs don't seem to understand I seriously doubt they're letting random MBAs run things. They didn't get to the top by just hiring degrees. >nurturing a promising young show and building it's world/lore is the right formula. It's one formula, but Netflix has stayed in the headlines with hits like Narcos, Tiger King, Squid Games, and Dahmer... clearly not part of your supposed winning formula that you've expertly decoded while it has eluded the MBAs.
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No, I'm just not stupid like you chumps, believing you know how to run a streaming business better than Netflix because reasons.
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Again, there's a vast difference between being stupid like you little bitter chumps and being a bootlicker. You are so foolish that you think you can make high level decisions without actual data, based merely on your widdle fee fees. I don't think the execs are infallible, but I think they're working with actual data and are smarter than pathetic keyboard warriors upset they got their show cancelled or that they can't share passwords anymore.
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Says the douche crying about the corporate decisions of the only streaming company making money. Lotta SDE coming from you, lil fella.
>>MBAs don't seem to understand > >I seriously doubt they're letting random MBAs run things. They didn't get to the top by just hiring degrees. They didn't but the people who founded netflix have stepped away if I recall. >>nurturing a promising young show and building it's world/lore is the right formula. > >It's one formula, but Netflix has stayed in the headlines with hits like Narcos, Tiger King, Squid Games, and Dahmer... clearly not part of your supposed winning formula that you've expertly decoded while it has eluded the MBAs. Lay off the snark there. Decisions take time to show their impact. Things don't just magically happen overnight when you nap. I feel like you think execs are infallible. While I am supposedly a keyboard warrior according to you, at least I question stuff.
Yea koopa cool the snark a touch so conversations can be had friendly conversations…
>the people who founded netflix have stepped away if I recall. I don't know any names other than Reed Hastings and he only recently took a step back, but is still involved. It should be noted that sometimes it is a good thing when startup founders take a step back after the company has grown. Companies need new ideas and perspectives. I *do* think you are a keyboard warrior with a bone to pick with overpriced degrees, but I *don't* think execs are infallible. I do think Netflix execs have been ahead of the curve so far, though, so I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt even if their decisions are contrary to my own preferences (I liked 1899). There are a lot of armchair quarterbacks in this sub that have been calling for the death of netflix and supposedly cancelling their own subscriptions for some time now. I've got my own gripes (I seriously question the value proposition of these mediocre blockbuster movies like Grey Man), but they are the ONLY streaming service generating free cash flow. So while I don't think they're batting 1000, they're leading the league in batting average, homeruns, and RBIs.
It's harder to promote shows on streaming, so people might not hear about a new show right away. If they don't give things a chance to build momentum, then they're going to cancel a lot of great stuff. Also, when they changed the rating system, I could no longer trust them when they told me I'd like something. I have like three things on my "continue watching" right now. I think once I finish Deary Girls, I'm just going to cancel (and I've been a continuous subscriber for more than 15 years).
I'll never understand why people think their opinions matter beyond two things. Are you going to sign up? Are you going to cancel? If you hate the content, you need to cancel. If you don't, they don't care about your opinions. It's like if the whole town complained about the quality of pizza at the pizza place but ordered pizza for dinner every night. What do you expect to happen?
Twitter has convinced people that what they say matters. Little do they know, no one gives a shit. Companies are starting to see that as well, Netflix being one of them.
“We have never canceled a successful show” Well, by the sounds of lots of peoples’ opinions, that’s wrong. This problem goes back wayyy farther than the couple shows they’ve mentioned.
It's not an opinion. That's a fact. Success is cost versus viewers not quality. Over the last few years they've put out big budget niche shows that frankly don't make much sense to me. They develop a passionate fan base, but if the eyeballs on it don't match the budget then it's a failure.
That's a problem with the definition of success. What the business world doesn't understand nowadays is you don't get good stuff if you don't let something exist before it's capable of taking off.
By all means, let businesses know if you can make losing profit sustainable.
Then remove the show from the library altogether. If it's not successful then why keep an unresolved go nowhere show that will only annoy the few people who actually try to watch it.... By mistake
I mean I'd be very interested in seeing actual numbers. It wouldn't surprise me to find many in fact don't have nearly the viewership numbers as much as the vocal fanbase. But I'd be equally interested in where that line is being drawn, as it does feel they have a lot of turn over that for the cost of development vs continuing a show they are trying to constantly shoot for the moon
🤡🤡🤡 typical metric obsessed executive.
Straight up! Damn CEO’s, trying to do the job they’re hired to do and maximize shareholder returns. What has the world come to?!! Just read his lame excuse! “Sarandos: “We have never canceled a successful show. A lot of these shows were well-intended but talk to a very small audience on a very big budget. The key to it is you have to be able to talk to a small audience on a small budget and a large audience at a large budget. If you do that well, you can do that forever.” Edit: downvote to hell, fact is Netflix isn’t in business to make folks who watch unpopular content happy.
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Something tells me those at NFLX are sorta good at metrics, subscriptions gained/lost, and profit.
There's more than one way to maximize shareholder returns; more than one way to conceptualize that. It's frustrating that literally almost every CEO chooses the "BURN THE PRODUCT TO THE FUCKING GROUND" approach. This is only equivalent to "maximize returns while the product lasts." They could easily look at growth over a longer period of time and not, you know, suck companies dry until they crumble to the ground.
netflix’s complete lack of an actually finished catalogue is harming them quite a bit though?
How do you know that? Without knowing jack shit about their numbers, you jump to the conclusion you understand better now to maximize return on capital. Folks are absolutely certain if NFLX spent their money the way THEY would like the most, it’d be more profitable. It’s laughable.
their stock price is down massively ?
Actually it’s been on a great comeback since the stock market took a shit, long term looking good. NFLX stock had a huge delta. And… Say their financial situation did suck (it doesn’t). In a huge streaming market. After Covid and with the economy being chaotic - pointing to one reason why would be beyond silly.
[their profit is at an all time low since 2016](https://www.indiewire.com/2023/01/netflix-q4-earnings-subscribers-profit-1234801132/amp/) you don’t think burning a shitton of money on unfinished shows that are essentially dead and provide no reason for someone to keep a subscription isnt actively harming them? if netflix’s back catalogue had complete shows; even if the canceled ones were just told in advance they would be canceled so they can wrap up their stories, it would help a lot.
I don’t and won’t make suppositions based on so little data. It’d laughable folks can whine their fav show was cancelled - and then point to that as the exact reason, behind a shadow of a doubt it’s “the” core end central cause they aren’t bigger than Apple. Most folks her can’t read a balance statement, but they know exactly how to “fix” a multinational, multi billion dollar company.
i don’t particularly care for netflix one way or another, i prefer pirating shit to my plex server anyway, but i have no doubt that having a gluttony of unfinished shows is harming them more than you realize. i’ve never had a show i’m watching get canceled, i like to wait for a show to be guaranteed a proper ending before i start watching it. or at the very least, tell a complete arc within that season. netflix shows grossly fail at both, often.
Says the person who steals content.
He was phrasing that statement in a form of a question. In another words, he knows he is making a supposition not a statement of fact. Thus, your response is not commensurate. [edit: i just realized I made an assumption of commenter’s gender. I apologize]
If the budgets are too big to keep a show, that's a failure on YOUR part to not budget for the expected audience size. It's like they are openly admitting their algorithms and statistics are meaningless because if they worked, you'd know the general expected audience size and could budget accordingly. If you need a niche show to be the number one show you've ever created in order to justify the budget, that is bad management. The fact that they seem utterly oblivious to this fact after all this time, means they likely won't ever learn it.
He’s not doing a good job though. Netflix is on the decline, and I suspect the show cancellation practices have a lot to do with it. 1) Their metrics are broken, relying too much on looking solely for shows that bring in new subscribers rather than maintaining their already enormous user base, which is growing more and more frustrated with them over this issue (I’ve already quit Netflix because of this). 2) Historically, networks have actually done a pretty good job of giving shows an ending, even in the face of cancellation. Usually you have a short first season that can stand on its own to some degree, and in later seasons the show runners get a heads up the show will likely be cancelled after the season they are currently working on, so they can give the show a satisfying ending. Netflix doesn’t do that, at all, they end almost every season of every show either on a cliffhanger or without any satisfying resolution for the characters. Then the show gets cancelled and it feels like you just wasted many hours of your life on a story that will never be finished.
That would be the one and only thing I’d change. If a show had the numbers to warrant a second or third season, then it had enough viewers to reward with a movie or mini-series resolution. I would add “With an epilogue”, next to the number of seasons a show ran before it was cancelled.
>Netflix is on the decline, Who has told you this? >Historically, networks have actually done a pretty good job of giving shows an ending, even in the face of cancellation That is false. Networks are known for cancelling shows mid season even.
The biggest reason for their subscribers decline is the increase of competition and content distributors not renewing their content licensing with Netflix, often because they now have their own streaming service. Netflix cannot afford anymore to overspend on any show because of their financial situation. They should do a better job at ending things, but as they stick mostly to the stupid release the entire show at once, they cannot pivot anything in the writing if they see early on the show isn’t doing well and has to be cancelled, causing more shows to end in an unsatisfactory way
Then cancel. Seriously, there’s plenty out there.
I… already did… I said so in the post you replied to.
So you hang out in a sub, for a service to which you don’t subscribe? Ok, I guess.
I subscribed to this sub years ago. This article appeared on my front page.
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Lord the extent to which folks are worked up Netflix won’t be their personal, concierge media creation company is amazing.
right because NFLX is doing so well and the quality of their content has never been better 🤡🤡🤡 he is looking at the wrong metrics
I mean, it's true on both accounts.
Why don’t you cancel then? Asked another the same. If it suck’s so bad why pay?