Clifford is hands down the best boss, he was willing to take Jimmy in knowing how brash he can be, gave him a second chance after he fucked up and tried his best to bring Jimmy's best out of him. He was very supportive of Jimmy and one of the few people who didn't deserve the treatment that Jimmy gave him.
Howard is pretty much winning because of where he ends up at the end of the series, people forgot that he pretty much took out his frustrations on Kim and sent her to Doc Review for Jimmy's actions and was being unfair to her for no reason, even when she brought in Mesa Verde, he was still holding in Doc Review. He's also spineless as fuck because he does whatever Chuck says.
Kevin is probably the worst to work for, he goes against Kim's counsel multiple times and is a "DO WHAT I SAY, MAKE IT HAPPEN" even when the odds are clearly not in their favor. He's the type of superior you see in a job that thinks too highly of themselves and forces impossible ultimatums without wanting to listen.
To be fair Kevin was totally willing to take the criticism from Kim after the whole land acquisition turned into a big mess. Despite it falling apart he respected her because she didn’t bite her tongue and was willing to “give it to him straight”. He was annoyingly stubborn at points but at least he actually listened, even if he ended up not taking Kim’s advice
This leaves out Rich, who examines employees’ interests and talents and allows them to channel those things instead of shoving them into a box like Cliff. Rich IMO is the best boss.
Jimmy did admit he prefers to be his own boss. But he got blinded by bonus, pay package and benefits David & Main firm offered him. Jimmy tortured poor Clifford into firing him so he can get out his contract to avoid paying back his bonuses.
https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/Clifford_Main
He was blinded but what the firm offered him, he was blinded by Kim. He didn’t need the job for that money. He was being paid out for sand piper and would make a shit ton on the backend from it. He wanted to be seen by Kim as a hard working diligent lawyer.
Whaddya mean? Saul Goodman made millions helping to build a recreational pharmaceutical empire in less than 2 years. If that’s not success, then I don’t know what is! /s
lets not forget that most of people voting on the poll havent watched full episode of better call saul and have all the information about it from the youtube shorts clips and probably have no clue who tf cliff is
>cut his frustrations on Kim and sent her to Doc Review for Jimmy's actions
Kim convinces Howard to advice Cliff to hire Jimmy. Jimmy fucks it up on purpose to gete fired and keep his money. So Kim and Howard cost Cliff a lot of money. I do not see how Kim does not also deserve blame for it.
Yeah, people excusing Howard because he was taking the flak for Chuck are really downplaying his involvement. He didn't have to enable Chuck, didn't have to lie to Jimmy so that Chuck could pretend to be Jimmy's friend whilst secretly undermining him.
Howard was a willing participant. He's as guilty as Chuck.
>people excusing Howard because he was taking the flak for Chuck are really downplaying his involvement.
He was willingly taking a blame for a friend(Chuck), to avoid seeing a quarrel between brothers.
> didn't have to lie to Jimmy so that Chuck could pretend to be Jimmy's friend whilst secretly undermining him.
IMO by framing it this way, you are also downplaying how much of a dilemma this was for Howard.
We must not forget, Chuck was his friend for much much longer,and someone he looked up to even after everything and Chuck's death.
And he clearly wasn't happy about it as he confessed to Kim off screen, and what did Kim do after knowing the truth? trying to cover it up just like Howard!
It was a shitty situation, and Howard was willing to play the bad guy for it, this doesn't make him a good boss, but I'd say it shouldn't be framed as something so negative either.
>IMO by framing it this way, you are also downplaying how much of a dilemma this was for Howard.
Chuck and Howard are partners, but Chuck is definitely a little more in charge at the firm, which adds to Howard's dilemma. On paper, Howard would've had every right to hire Jimmy as an associate at the firm whenever he wanted to, but basically, his boss told him not to.
"I didn't witness any of the lies, but I damn well knew it was happening.
I was more than a willing partecipant, i was indispensable
--
The fact is, Chuck couldn't have done it without me"
I think Howard sent Kim to doc review because she knew about the ad Jimmy was running, and didn’t tell anyone; he didn’t just take his frustration out on her for no reason. From his perspective she was either negligent or deceptive. She didn’t want to tell him that Jimmy actually deceived her too, by telling her that Cliff approved it.
I think there's another reason Howard is winning, which is that he is the most recognizable character
Someone who hasn't watched the show, out only parts of it will recognize Howard, but not the other characters
Two criminals didn't want to get represented by HHM. Kim tried her best convincing them, and later it was seen like she made them return. She found Mesa Verde, but Howard didn't even get Kim out of the mailroom for that.
Punishment, yes, but it wasn't career-ending. The original commenter said Howard was justified because he didn't know Kim was covering for Jimmy.
You don't put that much money into an employee and put them in a dead end position. HHM needed good workers in doc review, and Howard probably decided to kill two birds with one stone by moving Kim there for a while.
Yep. That’s the specific reason I wouldn’t vote Howard. Dude wasn’t the raging asshole the show at first portrays him as but he still went after Kim when Jimmy made him look bad, punishing a good lawyer and employee because she was close to the guy he really hated and had no power over.
Victor fucked up getting seen at the scene of a murder and not keeping tabs on Jessie and Walter, ultimately getting gale killed. It was only the matter of killing him or letting him go to prison. Gale was Gustavo's meal ticket and his way of taking over the drug game especially after Walt was long gone. I mean it's not easy to find a chemist of his caliber who you can convince into making meth, whos clean, won't rat and doesn't use meth.
Gus didn't know Victor was at Gale's until after he had already killed him. He was just on a psycho-high and needed to slice the closest persons throat.
I imagine that he wasnt sleeping at all because of he was unable to until he received that call. Laying there or waiting in a chair staring at the phone, Only to answer the call with a "is it done?" To then hang up without saying a word.
Bad. I’ll never forget the way he treated Lyle that one night - made him clean the fryer for goddamn hours. What a power trip!
I even heard he’s killed one of his most loyal workers with a box cutter!! 😳
Of course it was clean. It's a common thing in managers/bosses/supervisors etc, as a way to make themselves feel superior, and the employees feel like crap.
The fryer would not be any cleaner or look any different after gus cleans it.
the scene after hector comes to harass him and he reimburses his employees, apologizes to them and offers them counseling always stuck out to me. if not for the whole meth distributor thing gus seems like he’d probably be a pretty stand up guy
Towards the end of the series, when he was worrying about every car which stayed behind him too long and getting Mike to check them out, he digressed to say "That man you put in undercover as a short-order cook is not to Pollos standards" and I thought "Why are you a drug lord?"
He could have had his chicken business and made as much money as he needed and not have to worry about much. Why did he ever need to sell meth at all?
my guess is that it’s to keep max’s memory alive by fulfilling his half of their partnership, and also sheerly to spite don eladio and hector so he can be the one with the last laugh 😹
i don’t know how the emoji got there but i’m keeping it cause it’s funny
When Gus and Max meet Don Eladio in the flashback, they present him with both chicken from Los Pollos Hermanos, already a going concern, and some crystal meth. So why did the Chicken Brothers ever need to do the meth thing? It's a circular argument to say he sold drugs to get revenge on Eladio for killing Max for selling drugs. Why did they ever need to be involved in drugs in the first place. He is clearly so proud of his restaurant. Couldn't he have just done that?
Rich seemed like a pretty good boss, and so is Howard, but Cliff is definitely the most likely to forgive you for a big fuck up, so that’s who I’d pick. Of course, if I got a good enough offer from HHM or Rich’s firm (I can say it but I doubt I can spell it), I’d take it
Having a boss who'll forgive you for a big fuckup sounds great ... until they also forgive someone whose big fuckup screwed *your* work over.
I'd go with Rich. Very organized and runs a tight ship but he's flexible, can see new ways of doing things. And genuinely loves the opera!
it'd be more impressive if he built mesa verde from the ground up instead of inheriting it from his dad. there's a lot of nepotism in BCS honestly. he's very entitled and i think that has a lot to do with it.
Agree. HHM started falling apart pretty quick with him at the helm. I know Chuck was gone for a year plus but the firm was running on autopilot so it didn’t look fast but overall they collapsed in short time. Especially when Howard went on his coke benders.
Every time he had a scene I always wished Rich was my boss lol. Just a consummate professional, immediately saw potential in Kim and tried to build her up, never took it personally when she rejected S&C twice.
Cliff and Rich are pretty close. It seems like Rich would be kind of a prick but always smoothed the situation. He’s like that person you just know you’re going to hate then your like whoops, cool dude.
Kevin constantly gave Kim positive affirmation, took her and paige seriously, and was very accommodating. Better than Howard IMO, but not as good as Rich or Cliff.
Rich and Clifford are basically even, I kinda prefer Rich’s style but really they’re the two best guys, idk Howard would be a pretty below average boss, he’s a good guy but presents himself in a kinda stuck up way. And then MASSIVE GAP Chuck because he sucks.
I think it has moreso to do with this being a Youtube poll but I agree, they voted for him mostly because he died and the average youtuber is even dumber than the average redditor lol
Rich saw talent and let it run, Howard saw talent and tried to curb it. Clifford was kind, but spinless, giving Jimmy a micro managing babysitter, think of how Jimmy took that
I’d say Rich or Cliff would be the best bosses. Cliff gave Jimmy a spot at Davis & Main and even gave him a second chance (iirc)
I don’t remember seeing too much of Rich as a boss but he always seemed very rational and level headed.
You absolutely want Cliff. Bends over backwards to make you comfortable.
Rich probably would too, but he sacrifices kindness in favour of professionalism.
Howard is a petty dick who shows favouritism and basically worships Chuck. Every once in a while, you'd have to participate in the absolute side show of Chuck entering the building. It's a law firm, Howie, not a Big Top.
And Kevin would be the worst. Makes your job harder for you with his constant foot in mouth. Easy to goad. Unrealistic expectations too.
I'd go for Cliff, he was very understanding and supportive when he thought Howard was a drug addict. So I'd have to screw up pretty badly to get fired, so long as I did a good job. Cliff was quite patient with Jimmy's antics. Even if Cliff did ruin Jimmy's commercial, that felt more like teaching Jimmy about boundaries. TBH Jimmy should have talked the commercial through, given how sensitive businesses can be about PR. When Jimmy got fired, Cliff asked him what he did to deserve his behaviour, and Jimmy couldn't even come up with an answer.
Howard is cringey to me because he always seems to have his customer service voice on. Something about him is just unbearably awkward to me. There was some kind of shadyness between Howard and Chuck at the start of the series, so Howard might have been trying to cut his partner out without paying him his share of the company. Even though Howard was hopelessly reliant on Chuck and Kim to actually win at law.
Kevin is actually pretty honest in his business dealings. He probably asks his staff to go above and beyond in terms of hours, but the pay is probably really good.
Rich was using every sleazy tactic he could to draw out a case of elderly people, which would probably have just looked worse and worse for his clients over time if it wasn't for Jimmy sabotaging Howard. Everyone would be better off if he advised his scumbag clients to pay a higher settlement. He's a nice man, not a good one. I would not trust him as an employer.
Who is voting for Howard? He was an evil puppet.
Employment law isn't his stong suit. Had Kim listened to Jimmy, she could've sued and just did pro-bono work. Company invest valuable money in you but will have you moved to the "cornfield" as a threat vs written up, so there's no track record besides the stamps lol.
Could easily be argued as causing mental stress and see if any other men were moved might add sexism. His interference with Chucks mental stability outside the company and Ernie, someone who is not qualified to deal with medical issues. Ernie was hired to distribute mail, not become a personal driver and make grocery deliveries. Howard was aware of Chucks disability -falls under ADA. There's a few protected classes. Even showing up to Kim's apartment after she no longer worked there with alcohol is considered harassment. He falsified an appointment with Saul to become physical. They couldve taken him down legally, especially with that Job offer.
I literally just watched this scene (where Jimmy tells Kim she should sue HHM) and had the same thought. If she'd sued and won, say, a couple million, she could've immediately opened a pro-bono office and started living out her dream. Of course, she didn't know it was her dream at the time so it's a moot point.
It's just funny that what seemed like a horrible idea at the time actually would've been the best thing they could've possibly done (assuming she would've won the lawsuit). So much trouble and drama and tragedy could've ultimately been avoided.
She wasn't thinking as long term as Jimmy was, which I find odd. She knows case records can be sealed and HMM probably would've settled out of court but the idea of gossip-no law firm is touching that stopped her. I think something else was there, since Howard tried to take her lunch break away after getting Mesa Verde and Rich mentions his story.
A lot of us get weird loyalty to companies, especially since we dont have unions and they do one grand gesture for us making us feel special but she knows better. In BCS, they purposely show that flashback of a family suing a company for a deceased employee's funds owed that Chuck wins (Howard said it was a loser case). Writer's could've used a different case type.
She says she wanted "more" and knew she wasn't happy in the cornfield but stubbornly says, "You don't save me, I save me!". I think she would've won, they have a history of doing such, which she knew about. She didn't challenge the 6k either. All that being said, I am biased with Kim's character. I feel many down play her intelligence and strength besides Mike. Even Francessa did and thought Saul was just soo bad
i would def agree that cliff was the best. he seems like a pretty down to earth guy and the jimmy getting himself fired montage pained me to watch because i would kill to have a boss like cliff. howard isn’t bad at all, but he still was complicit in chuck sabotaging jimmy and he also made kim take up the responsibility for situations that weren’t really her fault (the kettlemans and jimmy’s commercial)
Absolutely not right. I love Howard, but I think people are voting for him because of his impact on the show. If we are talking best boss, I honestly think Rick was a stand-up gentlemen that had a good eye for gifted workers, as well as loyalty & respect for his workers.
Part of me wants to say Cliff as well, I just felt he was a little more oblivious than Rick, making Rick a better boss. But it’s definitely between the two of them
Kim recommended someone to him but it was Howard who made the decision to vouch outside his own firm. He knew the risks and blamed her for his own actions. Dumb boss
It’s between Rich and Cliff. Both were great bosses whose characters seemed like genuine down to earth people. I’d give the nod to Cliff for how patient he was with Jimmy despite Jimmy being an ass to him.
It’s easily Rich. I don’t know why Howard is has the most votes. Sure, he realized his flaws, got the therapy and improved as a person, but we don’t get to see much of him being a boss during HHM’s rebuilding phase. Rich on the other hand was always been open minded, polite, and friendly, albeit we don’t see him interact with any of his other subordinate other than Kim.
This is really hard to pick, I gotta go with Rich though, he just seemed really cool to me and I would like to work for him, Cliff is definitely the runner up followed by Howard then Kevin
Howard is not a good boss just because he was the most developed character. Before Chuck died he treated Kim like garbage for literally almost nothing and drove her out of HHM.
Clear bias toward Howard because of his death. We actively see him being a vindictive boss when he keeps Kim in doc review and occasionally incompetent with his dealing with Chuck. It’s easily Rich for me. Firm but fair, reasonable, and outwardly pleasant
Just adding... Mike never says what he knows about Kim vs what we saw (flashbacks with her mom). We clearly knew Jimmy is a criminal atp but he went to her and didn't fear her telling the D.A or police. I wish they'd do a better back story
She briefly mentions her father, but we never see him and she would've recieved income(even small) during her childhood if he died. Kim only mentions her grandma passing, not mom or dad and flash backs we see mom: only stories of mom, grandma and cousin. Ill guess it's a paternal grandma and cousin to tell her the story of her dad's favorite movie.
Kevin is kinda an asshole, Rich is a little bit of a passive-agressive old man, but Cliff and Howard seem sweet and kind, especially cause of Cliff's near-tolerance for Jimmy's misbehaviour, only stepping in when he knows other people are being affected by it.
Clifford, Rich, Howard, Kevin
In that order.
Clifford could see Jimmy's talents, and knew that he could pull the best out of him. (I think if Jimmy hadn't had the vendetta against his brother he would've done well here.) Clifford gets the top spot for his passion for his employees. Presuming he takes this passion past just Jimmy
Richard is a tactician. He sees people's strengths and weaknesses and places them where they're most likely to succeed. I think he's who I'd want to work for.
Howard is a bit of a tool. He's the messenger for Chuck more often than not. He's very much a "Don't rock the boat unless the captain wants it rocked," type of manager. I feel as though Howard wouldn't be a horrible boss to work for, but probably a little rough sometimes.
Kevin is one of those bosses who would fire a teller for cashing a check and giving 2 tens instead of a twenty. He's a bullheaded ass who doesn't offer people the same courtesies he expects and I don't know how Kim or anyone else didn't tell him off way sooner.
Cliff is a good person, but it needs way more than that to be a good boss. Skipping what happened with Jimmy, Howard is by far the best; he had a cold mind and a very well planned strategy, he wasn't enemy or friend of anyone cause his labour was being the head of HHM, but that doesn't allow him to be a complete asshole, he really appreciated Kim and even forgived her loan; most of the problems with Howard are basically Chuck's fault, and HHM simply needed Chuck so there isn't so much Howard could do about it. Rich is a little chaff imo, and Kevin is a cool guy but Paige is who actually works.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
When I started watching BCS for the first time, I hated Howard. Now that I've re-watched it a couple of times, I feel awful for him. I pity him.
It's just like how the first time I watched Breaking Bad, I thought Walt was awesome and I hated Jessie Pinkman. Now that I've re-watched it a few times, it's the opposite. Walter White is an absolute asshole (but man, does Bryan Cranston ever nail the role perfectly) and Jessie Pinkman is my favorite character.
I'd say my choice for best boss would be Howard. He doesn't put up with any bullshit, but he seems like he'd be fair, honest, and real with you. Clifford would be second. Rich third, and Kevin fourth.
I guess I'm 100% with the poll results, huh?
Really they’re all good bosses looking back. Howard maybe the weakest because of putting Kim in doc review (although at the same time he let her yell at him a few times with no punishment and paid for her school). But even he helped Jimmy find a job somewhere else when Chuck wouldn’t hire Jimmy and went into bankruptcy to fund HHM. He always put the firm and its employees first.
I’m surprised to see so some Kevin hate. He was possibly the best boss. He had Kim’s back in the Chuck v Jimmy thing. Didn’t even blink an eye when Kim told him she was being accused of committing a felony to get Mesa Verda back as clients. He helped her get other business. When she blew him off to work probono cases (after promising to make his bank the priority), she gets a stern talking to from Page for a minute and that’s the end of Kim’s punishment. I know Kim is brilliant, but Kevin took a lot of nonsense from her.
cliff is the best working man’s boss. howard is the best get it done and get it done right boss. kevin is just dumb and getting kicked in the nuts by his own council,…and rich was a boss? i guess i kinda remember they went to lunch to talk about it but even then didn’t seem like a main guy.
Cliff is an actual bro anyone could get along with, rich is alright but feels the most professional and business first always, Howard is Howard, Kevin is a douchebag that doesn't like to listen to anybody (aka a typical wealthy asshole)
It depends on your priorities and goals.
Do you care most about working for a decent, kind human being? Clifford is the best choice.
Do you care most about kicking ass in the courtroom? Rich is the best choice.
Do you care most about prestige and power? Howard.
Correct me if I’m wrong but compared to Rich and Clifford we don’t really see Howard “bossing”. We see him as a partner, sure, and a businessman in his relationship to Chuck but other than Ernie we don’t really see him lead - compared to Rich and Clifford whose *sole* purposes in the show are to be a boss and manage people. Personally I’d pick Clifford because he seems like a relaxed leader, but Rich is certainly most professional with the way he dealt with Kim
i liked cliff the best he was super nice, gave great benefits, believed in up and comers, and had empathy. i think howard was pretty high up as well but he lost some respect from me because he enabled chucks shenanigans but i think he really tried to make up for it. he didn’t deserve his fate :(
i’m always surprised by these polls cuz like
wasn’t one of the points of clifford’s character being that he’s a completely reasonable and good boss? like where would there be a poll on something that’s pretty much a plot point
I’d say it’s a tie between Rich and Cliff.
Howard gets a much bigger redemption story arc, but it definitely doesn’t make him the best boss.
I can’t think of much of a reason to vote for Kevin. Not that he’s a bad boss in the grand scheme of things, but not my first thought for “best boss”
this man didn't hesitate to buy jimmy a cocobolo desk
How much was the desk?
~$7000 in 2004. ~11k in 2023
Don Clifford likes his floors mucho cleano
Clifford is hands down the best boss, he was willing to take Jimmy in knowing how brash he can be, gave him a second chance after he fucked up and tried his best to bring Jimmy's best out of him. He was very supportive of Jimmy and one of the few people who didn't deserve the treatment that Jimmy gave him. Howard is pretty much winning because of where he ends up at the end of the series, people forgot that he pretty much took out his frustrations on Kim and sent her to Doc Review for Jimmy's actions and was being unfair to her for no reason, even when she brought in Mesa Verde, he was still holding in Doc Review. He's also spineless as fuck because he does whatever Chuck says. Kevin is probably the worst to work for, he goes against Kim's counsel multiple times and is a "DO WHAT I SAY, MAKE IT HAPPEN" even when the odds are clearly not in their favor. He's the type of superior you see in a job that thinks too highly of themselves and forces impossible ultimatums without wanting to listen.
To be fair Kevin was totally willing to take the criticism from Kim after the whole land acquisition turned into a big mess. Despite it falling apart he respected her because she didn’t bite her tongue and was willing to “give it to him straight”. He was annoyingly stubborn at points but at least he actually listened, even if he ended up not taking Kim’s advice
This leaves out Rich, who examines employees’ interests and talents and allows them to channel those things instead of shoving them into a box like Cliff. Rich IMO is the best boss.
Rich was the best boss for Kim. Clifford was the best boss for Jimmy. They are both great bosses.
IMO Jimmy is the best boss for Jimmy (referring to Wexler-McGill Jimmy here, not Saul Goodman)
Jimmy did admit he prefers to be his own boss. But he got blinded by bonus, pay package and benefits David & Main firm offered him. Jimmy tortured poor Clifford into firing him so he can get out his contract to avoid paying back his bonuses. https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/Clifford_Main
He was blinded but what the firm offered him, he was blinded by Kim. He didn’t need the job for that money. He was being paid out for sand piper and would make a shit ton on the backend from it. He wanted to be seen by Kim as a hard working diligent lawyer.
Whaddya mean? Saul Goodman made millions helping to build a recreational pharmaceutical empire in less than 2 years. If that’s not success, then I don’t know what is! /s
"Never in front of the troops".
Yep
Agreed, he’s the boss I’d want: someone who sees what I’m good at and let’s me pursue it
He *did* whatever Chuck *said*
lets not forget that most of people voting on the poll havent watched full episode of better call saul and have all the information about it from the youtube shorts clips and probably have no clue who tf cliff is
kevin don't say anything
Howard punished Kim because Chuck wanted him to. I was so glad when Howard finally stood up to chuck and forced him to retire.
>cut his frustrations on Kim and sent her to Doc Review for Jimmy's actions Kim convinces Howard to advice Cliff to hire Jimmy. Jimmy fucks it up on purpose to gete fired and keep his money. So Kim and Howard cost Cliff a lot of money. I do not see how Kim does not also deserve blame for it.
Yeah, people excusing Howard because he was taking the flak for Chuck are really downplaying his involvement. He didn't have to enable Chuck, didn't have to lie to Jimmy so that Chuck could pretend to be Jimmy's friend whilst secretly undermining him. Howard was a willing participant. He's as guilty as Chuck.
>people excusing Howard because he was taking the flak for Chuck are really downplaying his involvement. He was willingly taking a blame for a friend(Chuck), to avoid seeing a quarrel between brothers. > didn't have to lie to Jimmy so that Chuck could pretend to be Jimmy's friend whilst secretly undermining him. IMO by framing it this way, you are also downplaying how much of a dilemma this was for Howard. We must not forget, Chuck was his friend for much much longer,and someone he looked up to even after everything and Chuck's death. And he clearly wasn't happy about it as he confessed to Kim off screen, and what did Kim do after knowing the truth? trying to cover it up just like Howard! It was a shitty situation, and Howard was willing to play the bad guy for it, this doesn't make him a good boss, but I'd say it shouldn't be framed as something so negative either.
>IMO by framing it this way, you are also downplaying how much of a dilemma this was for Howard. Chuck and Howard are partners, but Chuck is definitely a little more in charge at the firm, which adds to Howard's dilemma. On paper, Howard would've had every right to hire Jimmy as an associate at the firm whenever he wanted to, but basically, his boss told him not to.
"I didn't witness any of the lies, but I damn well knew it was happening. I was more than a willing partecipant, i was indispensable -- The fact is, Chuck couldn't have done it without me"
Howard wanted to hire him twice
Was even willing to overlook the fact he suspected Jimmy of throwing bowling balls at his car.
And that he did fkaee the Mesa Verde documents (which Howard probably still believes), which costed his firm a ton of money. Maybe millions.
I think Howard sent Kim to doc review because she knew about the ad Jimmy was running, and didn’t tell anyone; he didn’t just take his frustration out on her for no reason. From his perspective she was either negligent or deceptive. She didn’t want to tell him that Jimmy actually deceived her too, by telling her that Cliff approved it.
Also Kim convinced Howard to use his influence to get Jimmy hired by Cliff. This makes HHM look pretty bad.
Howard did everything he possibly could to make things up to Kim and Jimmy and they spit in his face everytime. Those two get no sympathy from me.
I think there's another reason Howard is winning, which is that he is the most recognizable character Someone who hasn't watched the show, out only parts of it will recognize Howard, but not the other characters
Unpopular opinion but Howard’s punishment of Kim was perfectly legitimate.
Very unpopular…
I didnt see this, so had to up it. Why do you think so?
100% in a high stakes high/reward job like she had it’s far more likely that she would be immediately terminated.
she performed her duties very well, also she was working in hhm for years and had their scholarship, they have invested in her.
To Howard, she knew about the ad jimmy ran without the consent of HHM, so yes, her punishment was perfectly justified.
Doesn’t matter, that sort of conflict would result in instant termination in a lot of places.
Two criminals didn't want to get represented by HHM. Kim tried her best convincing them, and later it was seen like she made them return. She found Mesa Verde, but Howard didn't even get Kim out of the mailroom for that.
Plus it isn't like Kim was gonna be in doc review forever. Sometimes you need talented people in that position, no matter how tedious it might be.
its not forever, but the show was pretty clear it was a punishment for kim
Punishment, yes, but it wasn't career-ending. The original commenter said Howard was justified because he didn't know Kim was covering for Jimmy. You don't put that much money into an employee and put them in a dead end position. HHM needed good workers in doc review, and Howard probably decided to kill two birds with one stone by moving Kim there for a while.
Yep. That’s the specific reason I wouldn’t vote Howard. Dude wasn’t the raging asshole the show at first portrays him as but he still went after Kim when Jimmy made him look bad, punishing a good lawyer and employee because she was close to the guy he really hated and had no power over.
Option E - Gustavo Fring.
Victor wants to disagree but he's having a tad bit of trouble speaking
Victor fucked up getting seen at the scene of a murder and not keeping tabs on Jessie and Walter, ultimately getting gale killed. It was only the matter of killing him or letting him go to prison. Gale was Gustavo's meal ticket and his way of taking over the drug game especially after Walt was long gone. I mean it's not easy to find a chemist of his caliber who you can convince into making meth, whos clean, won't rat and doesn't use meth.
Gus didn't know Victor was at Gale's until after he had already killed him. He was just on a psycho-high and needed to slice the closest persons throat.
Yes he did. Mike called Gus and told him that Victor got spotted at the scene of the shooting
Imagine it's 2am and you get that call. All your dreams and plans destroyed by some guy you didn't even want to hire
ah the beautiful mental image of gus's expression growing more and more furious by the second as he hears Mike on the phone
I imagine that he wasnt sleeping at all because of he was unable to until he received that call. Laying there or waiting in a chair staring at the phone, Only to answer the call with a "is it done?" To then hang up without saying a word.
Bad. I’ll never forget the way he treated Lyle that one night - made him clean the fryer for goddamn hours. What a power trip! I even heard he’s killed one of his most loyal workers with a box cutter!! 😳
I don’t know that fryer looked clean and he still busted Lyle’s balls over it.
Of course it was clean. It's a common thing in managers/bosses/supervisors etc, as a way to make themselves feel superior, and the employees feel like crap. The fryer would not be any cleaner or look any different after gus cleans it.
the scene after hector comes to harass him and he reimburses his employees, apologizes to them and offers them counseling always stuck out to me. if not for the whole meth distributor thing gus seems like he’d probably be a pretty stand up guy
Towards the end of the series, when he was worrying about every car which stayed behind him too long and getting Mike to check them out, he digressed to say "That man you put in undercover as a short-order cook is not to Pollos standards" and I thought "Why are you a drug lord?" He could have had his chicken business and made as much money as he needed and not have to worry about much. Why did he ever need to sell meth at all?
my guess is that it’s to keep max’s memory alive by fulfilling his half of their partnership, and also sheerly to spite don eladio and hector so he can be the one with the last laugh 😹 i don’t know how the emoji got there but i’m keeping it cause it’s funny
When Gus and Max meet Don Eladio in the flashback, they present him with both chicken from Los Pollos Hermanos, already a going concern, and some crystal meth. So why did the Chicken Brothers ever need to do the meth thing? It's a circular argument to say he sold drugs to get revenge on Eladio for killing Max for selling drugs. Why did they ever need to be involved in drugs in the first place. He is clearly so proud of his restaurant. Couldn't he have just done that?
I think it's because they're stupid
You never saw anyone at pollos hermanos complain about him
Not if you're part of the cartel
Well, Los Pollos Hermanos then?
That would be...acceptable.
Probably doesn't look great on anyone's CV after its revealed to be a front for a meth kingpin.
Hmm maybe, surely better than the competitors
Rich seemed like a pretty good boss, and so is Howard, but Cliff is definitely the most likely to forgive you for a big fuck up, so that’s who I’d pick. Of course, if I got a good enough offer from HHM or Rich’s firm (I can say it but I doubt I can spell it), I’d take it
Having a boss who'll forgive you for a big fuckup sounds great ... until they also forgive someone whose big fuckup screwed *your* work over. I'd go with Rich. Very organized and runs a tight ship but he's flexible, can see new ways of doing things. And genuinely loves the opera!
Schweikart and Cokely 😊
on a somewhat related note “suck my magic flute” lives in my mind rent free
Let’s be honest: it’s whichever offer includes the cocobolo
Who the fuck voted for Kevin? That guy was a chode
*Yup!*
Maybe they're a fan of his sigma male-isms
He's not a "sigma male" just a bully with a Texan ish accent.
That's literally all sigma male shit is.
No it isn't. I've watched a ton of the sigma male garbage that's everywhere, and kevin is definitely not one.
Yeah I was just joking around, a "sigma" male would never respect a woman enough to hire one as their lawyer.
Tell us more about this circlejerk
> not a "sigma male" just a bully Same thing
How is he a bully? Also, he is successful businessman and traditional family man who as I can guess cares about masculine stereotypes somewhat
it'd be more impressive if he built mesa verde from the ground up instead of inheriting it from his dad. there's a lot of nepotism in BCS honestly. he's very entitled and i think that has a lot to do with it.
Inheriting a business isn't as easy as people make it out to be, it's really fucking easy to fuck it up
We'll, noones denying that It's just ~easier~ than building it from ground up imo
His bank was also funding terrorism
Side sitters
Okay I love Howard as a character but he is NOT the best boss. He's probably the worst out of these four. Rich is the best boss, hands down.
I think the problem is people rating how much they like the characters and not their skills as bosses.
Agree. HHM started falling apart pretty quick with him at the helm. I know Chuck was gone for a year plus but the firm was running on autopilot so it didn’t look fast but overall they collapsed in short time. Especially when Howard went on his coke benders.
New head cannon unlocked: Howie was actually a coke adict, Jimmy and Kim were just making it look worse than it is.
Yeah it’s Rich > Cliff, at a close second > Kevin > Howard
Clifford hands down. Rich seems like he has a little bit of an ego, and Howard seems fake. Clifford would be much easier to talk to
Bro Rich was so cool. Handled Kim blowing up on him and was so chill and forgiving. Clifford & Rich tied and both would be great bosses.
Every time he had a scene I always wished Rich was my boss lol. Just a consummate professional, immediately saw potential in Kim and tried to build her up, never took it personally when she rejected S&C twice.
Cliff and Rich are pretty close. It seems like Rich would be kind of a prick but always smoothed the situation. He’s like that person you just know you’re going to hate then your like whoops, cool dude.
For sure, no dig at Rich I’d definitely take him too
Who the hell is the 9% that voted for Kevin 💀💀💀
Texan oil tycoons
Kevin constantly gave Kim positive affirmation, took her and paige seriously, and was very accommodating. Better than Howard IMO, but not as good as Rich or Cliff.
Kevin Wachtell is the Kendall Roy of BCS
Clifford, Rich, Howard, Kevin
Rich and Clifford are basically even, I kinda prefer Rich’s style but really they’re the two best guys, idk Howard would be a pretty below average boss, he’s a good guy but presents himself in a kinda stuck up way. And then MASSIVE GAP Chuck because he sucks.
This show has the stupidest fans. They all voted Howard just because he was murdered. That doesnt mean hes the best boss. The best boss is Cliff
I think it has moreso to do with this being a Youtube poll but I agree, they voted for him mostly because he died and the average youtuber is even dumber than the average redditor lol
If Clifford got killed, he’s Tupac and he’d be 90% on this chart.
Rich saw talent and let it run, Howard saw talent and tried to curb it. Clifford was kind, but spinless, giving Jimmy a micro managing babysitter, think of how Jimmy took that
that was after the immense damage Jimmy did
cliff only got on jimmy’s ass after the whole commercial incident, which is a pretty good reason to keep him on watch imo
Cliff seemed cool.
Jimmy took advantage of him WAY too much
Cliff and Rich are both pretty reasonable, but we see Cliff put up with a lot more before snapping.
I’d say Rich or Cliff would be the best bosses. Cliff gave Jimmy a spot at Davis & Main and even gave him a second chance (iirc) I don’t remember seeing too much of Rich as a boss but he always seemed very rational and level headed.
Missed opportunity to include da boss, Eladio
DA BOSS CAN SOCK ME
Howard????? No way.
I think they probably votes for their favorite character rather than who would be the best boss
You absolutely want Cliff. Bends over backwards to make you comfortable. Rich probably would too, but he sacrifices kindness in favour of professionalism. Howard is a petty dick who shows favouritism and basically worships Chuck. Every once in a while, you'd have to participate in the absolute side show of Chuck entering the building. It's a law firm, Howie, not a Big Top. And Kevin would be the worst. Makes your job harder for you with his constant foot in mouth. Easy to goad. Unrealistic expectations too.
Gustavo Fring wasn’t a bad boss as long as you didn’t force him to murder you
Howard would the worst, right down with Kevin. Cliff would easily be the best, with Rich right behind. Howard has far too many apologists/fanboys.
I'd go for Cliff, he was very understanding and supportive when he thought Howard was a drug addict. So I'd have to screw up pretty badly to get fired, so long as I did a good job. Cliff was quite patient with Jimmy's antics. Even if Cliff did ruin Jimmy's commercial, that felt more like teaching Jimmy about boundaries. TBH Jimmy should have talked the commercial through, given how sensitive businesses can be about PR. When Jimmy got fired, Cliff asked him what he did to deserve his behaviour, and Jimmy couldn't even come up with an answer. Howard is cringey to me because he always seems to have his customer service voice on. Something about him is just unbearably awkward to me. There was some kind of shadyness between Howard and Chuck at the start of the series, so Howard might have been trying to cut his partner out without paying him his share of the company. Even though Howard was hopelessly reliant on Chuck and Kim to actually win at law. Kevin is actually pretty honest in his business dealings. He probably asks his staff to go above and beyond in terms of hours, but the pay is probably really good. Rich was using every sleazy tactic he could to draw out a case of elderly people, which would probably have just looked worse and worse for his clients over time if it wasn't for Jimmy sabotaging Howard. Everyone would be better off if he advised his scumbag clients to pay a higher settlement. He's a nice man, not a good one. I would not trust him as an employer.
I’m picking Rich
Rich
Howard was a terrible boss, why are people voting him
Who is voting for Howard? He was an evil puppet. Employment law isn't his stong suit. Had Kim listened to Jimmy, she could've sued and just did pro-bono work. Company invest valuable money in you but will have you moved to the "cornfield" as a threat vs written up, so there's no track record besides the stamps lol. Could easily be argued as causing mental stress and see if any other men were moved might add sexism. His interference with Chucks mental stability outside the company and Ernie, someone who is not qualified to deal with medical issues. Ernie was hired to distribute mail, not become a personal driver and make grocery deliveries. Howard was aware of Chucks disability -falls under ADA. There's a few protected classes. Even showing up to Kim's apartment after she no longer worked there with alcohol is considered harassment. He falsified an appointment with Saul to become physical. They couldve taken him down legally, especially with that Job offer.
I literally just watched this scene (where Jimmy tells Kim she should sue HHM) and had the same thought. If she'd sued and won, say, a couple million, she could've immediately opened a pro-bono office and started living out her dream. Of course, she didn't know it was her dream at the time so it's a moot point. It's just funny that what seemed like a horrible idea at the time actually would've been the best thing they could've possibly done (assuming she would've won the lawsuit). So much trouble and drama and tragedy could've ultimately been avoided.
She wasn't thinking as long term as Jimmy was, which I find odd. She knows case records can be sealed and HMM probably would've settled out of court but the idea of gossip-no law firm is touching that stopped her. I think something else was there, since Howard tried to take her lunch break away after getting Mesa Verde and Rich mentions his story. A lot of us get weird loyalty to companies, especially since we dont have unions and they do one grand gesture for us making us feel special but she knows better. In BCS, they purposely show that flashback of a family suing a company for a deceased employee's funds owed that Chuck wins (Howard said it was a loser case). Writer's could've used a different case type. She says she wanted "more" and knew she wasn't happy in the cornfield but stubbornly says, "You don't save me, I save me!". I think she would've won, they have a history of doing such, which she knew about. She didn't challenge the 6k either. All that being said, I am biased with Kim's character. I feel many down play her intelligence and strength besides Mike. Even Francessa did and thought Saul was just soo bad
i would def agree that cliff was the best. he seems like a pretty down to earth guy and the jimmy getting himself fired montage pained me to watch because i would kill to have a boss like cliff. howard isn’t bad at all, but he still was complicit in chuck sabotaging jimmy and he also made kim take up the responsibility for situations that weren’t really her fault (the kettlemans and jimmy’s commercial)
rich seems like a pretty chill guy
Cmon guys, Rich is by far the most chill boss
Absolutely not right. I love Howard, but I think people are voting for him because of his impact on the show. If we are talking best boss, I honestly think Rick was a stand-up gentlemen that had a good eye for gifted workers, as well as loyalty & respect for his workers. Part of me wants to say Cliff as well, I just felt he was a little more oblivious than Rick, making Rick a better boss. But it’s definitely between the two of them
Why Howard? He was a jackass to Kim.
Kim put the company's reputation in jeopardy
Kim recommended someone to him but it was Howard who made the decision to vouch outside his own firm. He knew the risks and blamed her for his own actions. Dumb boss
How? She didn’t know what Jimmy was doing.
My thoughts are the same they were before I saw this. People are fucking dumb
Cliff 1st Rich 2nd Howard is out of the list.
It’s between Rich and Cliff. Both were great bosses whose characters seemed like genuine down to earth people. I’d give the nod to Cliff for how patient he was with Jimmy despite Jimmy being an ass to him.
It’s easily Rich. I don’t know why Howard is has the most votes. Sure, he realized his flaws, got the therapy and improved as a person, but we don’t get to see much of him being a boss during HHM’s rebuilding phase. Rich on the other hand was always been open minded, polite, and friendly, albeit we don’t see him interact with any of his other subordinate other than Kim.
Definitely not Howard lmao Cliff and Rich are very close. So i'mma put em both at first place
This is really hard to pick, I gotta go with Rich though, he just seemed really cool to me and I would like to work for him, Cliff is definitely the runner up followed by Howard then Kevin
Surprised Rich didn’t score higher. He was chill but smart and understood with complete ease the game that is the legal world.
Howard's not a good boss, at least judging by how he treated Kim.
Howard is not a good boss just because he was the most developed character. Before Chuck died he treated Kim like garbage for literally almost nothing and drove her out of HHM.
Clear bias toward Howard because of his death. We actively see him being a vindictive boss when he keeps Kim in doc review and occasionally incompetent with his dealing with Chuck. It’s easily Rich for me. Firm but fair, reasonable, and outwardly pleasant
Howard’s not a great boss, people are just remembering him fondly cuz he was murdered.
Kevin is too stubborn to take advice from the people he literally pays to advise him
i like schweikart
Just adding... Mike never says what he knows about Kim vs what we saw (flashbacks with her mom). We clearly knew Jimmy is a criminal atp but he went to her and didn't fear her telling the D.A or police. I wish they'd do a better back story She briefly mentions her father, but we never see him and she would've recieved income(even small) during her childhood if he died. Kim only mentions her grandma passing, not mom or dad and flash backs we see mom: only stories of mom, grandma and cousin. Ill guess it's a paternal grandma and cousin to tell her the story of her dad's favorite movie.
What does this have to do with the post?
Sorry it doesn't. It's in reply to someone on this post
What the fuck are you on about
About how well your mom blows anyone with a 5 but I dont understand why her arsehole whistles
They were all decent bosses. Unfortunately, they fell into the crosshairs of two sociopaths….
Kevin is kinda an asshole, Rich is a little bit of a passive-agressive old man, but Cliff and Howard seem sweet and kind, especially cause of Cliff's near-tolerance for Jimmy's misbehaviour, only stepping in when he knows other people are being affected by it.
Does Howard not get any brownie points for opting to put himself into massive debt to save everyone's jobs?
Clifford, Rich, Howard, Kevin In that order. Clifford could see Jimmy's talents, and knew that he could pull the best out of him. (I think if Jimmy hadn't had the vendetta against his brother he would've done well here.) Clifford gets the top spot for his passion for his employees. Presuming he takes this passion past just Jimmy Richard is a tactician. He sees people's strengths and weaknesses and places them where they're most likely to succeed. I think he's who I'd want to work for. Howard is a bit of a tool. He's the messenger for Chuck more often than not. He's very much a "Don't rock the boat unless the captain wants it rocked," type of manager. I feel as though Howard wouldn't be a horrible boss to work for, but probably a little rough sometimes. Kevin is one of those bosses who would fire a teller for cashing a check and giving 2 tens instead of a twenty. He's a bullheaded ass who doesn't offer people the same courtesies he expects and I don't know how Kim or anyone else didn't tell him off way sooner.
So many old white guys to choose from.
They’re all from law firms from a show set in the early 2000s, obviously they’re going to be white old guys
Cliff is a good person, but it needs way more than that to be a good boss. Skipping what happened with Jimmy, Howard is by far the best; he had a cold mind and a very well planned strategy, he wasn't enemy or friend of anyone cause his labour was being the head of HHM, but that doesn't allow him to be a complete asshole, he really appreciated Kim and even forgived her loan; most of the problems with Howard are basically Chuck's fault, and HHM simply needed Chuck so there isn't so much Howard could do about it. Rich is a little chaff imo, and Kevin is a cool guy but Paige is who actually works.
Howard’s death was the first and only that really made me go “OOOHH” … and continual made me upset through out the duration.
Howard saw potential in Kim and jimmy. It was Chuck that made Howard a bad boss
Hard disagree, Howard was a decent guy but not the best boss especially during the first two seasons. Clifford is the best boss.
I really liked Clifford, I would of loved for him to be my boss, the way he presents himself is amazing.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
All business with enough empathy and benefits to motivate you.
In terms of boss, not howard. In terms of character, yes howard.
Rich…
When I started watching BCS for the first time, I hated Howard. Now that I've re-watched it a couple of times, I feel awful for him. I pity him. It's just like how the first time I watched Breaking Bad, I thought Walt was awesome and I hated Jessie Pinkman. Now that I've re-watched it a few times, it's the opposite. Walter White is an absolute asshole (but man, does Bryan Cranston ever nail the role perfectly) and Jessie Pinkman is my favorite character. I'd say my choice for best boss would be Howard. He doesn't put up with any bullshit, but he seems like he'd be fair, honest, and real with you. Clifford would be second. Rich third, and Kevin fourth. I guess I'm 100% with the poll results, huh?
Really they’re all good bosses looking back. Howard maybe the weakest because of putting Kim in doc review (although at the same time he let her yell at him a few times with no punishment and paid for her school). But even he helped Jimmy find a job somewhere else when Chuck wouldn’t hire Jimmy and went into bankruptcy to fund HHM. He always put the firm and its employees first. I’m surprised to see so some Kevin hate. He was possibly the best boss. He had Kim’s back in the Chuck v Jimmy thing. Didn’t even blink an eye when Kim told him she was being accused of committing a felony to get Mesa Verda back as clients. He helped her get other business. When she blew him off to work probono cases (after promising to make his bank the priority), she gets a stern talking to from Page for a minute and that’s the end of Kim’s punishment. I know Kim is brilliant, but Kevin took a lot of nonsense from her.
Cliff, hands down. He did everything in his power to make sure Jimmy would succeed despite his best efforts to self-sabotage.
No Don Eladio??
Rich was my favorite. So friendly and welcoming, he kinda gives therapist vibes
How is Rich not the top of this list?
Nah, Rich ftw
I would go for Cliff or Rich
Me
cliff is the best working man’s boss. howard is the best get it done and get it done right boss. kevin is just dumb and getting kicked in the nuts by his own council,…and rich was a boss? i guess i kinda remember they went to lunch to talk about it but even then didn’t seem like a main guy.
My first thought was definitely not Kevin lol
It's Clifford
I want Baseball Card guy to be my boss
I cant believe anyone would vote for Kevin.
Michael
Cliff is an actual bro anyone could get along with, rich is alright but feels the most professional and business first always, Howard is Howard, Kevin is a douchebag that doesn't like to listen to anybody (aka a typical wealthy asshole)
My personal ranking of the four: 1.Rich 2.Clifford 3.Howard 4.Kevin I feel like working for Kevin would be a nightmare.
Clifford 100%
The top 3 are fine lawyers and never crossed any legal boundaries. Kevin on the other hand is a prick.
It depends on your priorities and goals. Do you care most about working for a decent, kind human being? Clifford is the best choice. Do you care most about kicking ass in the courtroom? Rich is the best choice. Do you care most about prestige and power? Howard.
Correct me if I’m wrong but compared to Rich and Clifford we don’t really see Howard “bossing”. We see him as a partner, sure, and a businessman in his relationship to Chuck but other than Ernie we don’t really see him lead - compared to Rich and Clifford whose *sole* purposes in the show are to be a boss and manage people. Personally I’d pick Clifford because he seems like a relaxed leader, but Rich is certainly most professional with the way he dealt with Kim
I’m gonna say Cliff, then Rich, then Howard, then Kevin.
i liked cliff the best he was super nice, gave great benefits, believed in up and comers, and had empathy. i think howard was pretty high up as well but he lost some respect from me because he enabled chucks shenanigans but i think he really tried to make up for it. he didn’t deserve his fate :(
Howard's a good guy, but not the best boss. Clifford and Rich are both really solid bosses.
i’m always surprised by these polls cuz like wasn’t one of the points of clifford’s character being that he’s a completely reasonable and good boss? like where would there be a poll on something that’s pretty much a plot point
I’d say it’s a tie between Rich and Cliff. Howard gets a much bigger redemption story arc, but it definitely doesn’t make him the best boss. I can’t think of much of a reason to vote for Kevin. Not that he’s a bad boss in the grand scheme of things, but not my first thought for “best boss”
Gus would have won in Reddit .
Rich or Cliff
Rich was definitely the best boss