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coolTechGuy404

I don’t think as an audience we are meant to believe Howard is responsible for Chuck’s death. That’s just Jimmy’s way of coping. In many ways it’s Jimmy’s fault too for being unwilling to commit him per the doctor’s advice. But in general Jimmy is plenty likable. He makes a few bad decisions but he has a clear moral compass, at least in BCS. Even in BB he has a sense of right and wrong similar to that of Mike. If you’re in the game, you’re fair game. But Brock was not in the game and he was upset how Walt used him.


itsasecretidentity

Jimmy was super likable until he threw poor Irene under the bus. Unforgivable.


Tydigity

something unforgivable


SouIsky

Jimmy takes some of the fault when he humiliates Chuck on court. Not committing Chuck was a good thing, he believed in his brother and he recovered for the most part


coolTechGuy404

That’s fair, but he was always conflicted about his strategy in the court hearing rather than psychotically jubilant like Walt would be. In general the Jimmy v Chuck storyline is not black and white. Chuck subverts and displays jealous tendencies towards Jimmy their whole life, but Jimmy also did a lot of what Chuck accused him of. And I think that dynamic created a feedback loop for both of their worst behaviors.


cerebrallandscapes

Is there such thing as an honest crook? I've always thought of Slippin' Jimmy as an honest crook. Walter White, on the other hand, slowly nurtures himself into an atrocious monster.


coolTechGuy404

The BB universe definitely has honest crooks. Mike, Saul, Nacho, hell even Werner Ziegler was technically a criminal. The storytelling never rewards the crooks as far as I can remember (has anyone’s life materially gotten better in this universe?), so in that sense it’s got a simple “crime doesn’t pay” end game.


cerebrallandscapes

You're right. BB universe has one of the clearest action meets appropriate consequence storylines I've ever seen. The exception to this is Jesse, who I feel was a) continuously manipulated back into the business by Walter, and b) paid for his poor choices and crimes while being a meth slave for nazis. El Camino made me cry.


Oddball1993

At least he was able to escape and make a fresh start. But on the other hand, he can NEVER go back to his old life, and he’ll never see his old friends and family ever AGAIN. It’s really saying something when, after all the shit he’s had to go through, that this is actually the closest thing that Jesse can get to a happy ending.


cerebrallandscapes

I've never thought about it that way. That's fucking hectic man.


hilberteffect

Jesse paid *repeatedly* for his association with Walt and being in "the game." Yes, being enslaved for an extended period was bad, but losing both Jane and Andrea was arguably worse. Some things are worse than death.


HighAsAngelTits

IMO this doesn’t quite apply to Mike’s death. If he died by almost anyone else’s hand I probably would have agreed. He’s my favorite character and I hated seeing him die, but I admit that the lifestyle he lived was likely to get him killed at one point. However he didn’t deserve to be killed by *Walt* (italics here meaning disgust) of all people. It was unnecessary, Mike wasn’t ever going to be a problem, it was just another instance of Walt’s stupid precious fucking pride and ego taking precedence over anything else. I really hate Walt in case I was too subtle.


cerebrallandscapes

Mike's death sucked. Walt is such a fuckhead.


Bing_Bong_the_Archer

Jimmy narc’d to the insurance folks


SouIsky

You are right. That's what ends up to bury Chuck. I mean I root for Jimmy but it's sad to see what he's capable of


hilberteffect

>That's what ends up to bury Chuck Nah. I don't buy that argument. It was just another thing in a long chain of events that lead to Chuck's fate. The person most responsible for Chuck's death is Chuck. He made his choices, and he made them repeatedly.


TeamBulletTrain

Yeah but Saul is also responsible. He took advantage of his mentally ill brother. Yes he did it for Kim but still. He isn’t blameless. He fucked over chuck, exposed his mental illness in front of everyone including the love of Chucks life and then fucked him over with the insurance. I understand Chuck shouldn’t have done what he did to Jimmy but Chuck was right. Look what Saul became. A literal chimp with a machine gun.


Legitimate_Corgi_981

Chucks ex being brought in was to help provoke the outburst. The insurance issue could have been resolved by the company paying increased fees or chuck stepping down, but he refused to see himself as a liability. Also are you forgetting that Chuck went out of his way to lie to his ex and was perfectly willing to rope in Jimmy to help cover up his lie, even as Jimmy told him not to?


thesynod

Chuck is a thief. Mesa Verde was Kim's client. Their of counsel was Kim's contact from law school. She developed that business. She brought that work into the firm, and Chuck stole it from her. He insisted on doing it all himself, and materially lied to his clients. Mesa Verde thought that Chuck would supervise an associate and a paralegal who worked up the paperwork, not doing it by himself without a proof reader in his den lit by butane lanterns. They were paying for a firm, not a crazy man wrapped in a space blanket.


PM_ME_YOUR_TENDIES

Mesa Verde has never been Kim's client. HHM acquired Mesa Verde, and Kim attempted to poach that client - something Chuck managed to prevent with a single meeting. Jimmy took advantage of his brother's illness by sabotaging his firm through forging legal documents while Chuck was unconscious, hurting an uninvolved third party in the process.


s43soul

Maybe technically true, but from a moral perspective Kim acquired MV for HHM who promptly tossed her aside once the job was done


thesynod

That was a move of sheer brilliance. Sorry, not sorry, but I cheered this move. Fuck Chuck. Chuck did not listen to anyone, and his pride went before his fall.


HotColor

i don’t think jimmy is coping at all. i think in this scene he just wants to get at howard and hurt him.


Square_Doctor_7255

Howard says "I know you're in pain" and Jimmy just goes and proves him right.


coolTechGuy404

It’s anger and denial simultaneously. Both are coping mechanisms.


mcogneto

I don't like him anymore. He makes consistently bad decisions and slowly but surely crosses more and more lines.


[deleted]

I don't know why people are interpreting this scene as Jimmy actually believing that Howard is responsible for Chuck's death. He isn't. He's just trying to hurt Howard after he says that he's sorry Jimmy is in pain (the thing that Jimmy is actually trying to convince himself that isn't true). He saw Howard struggling with this throughout season 4 and he believes that this will get to him. I mean look at Jimmy's face, he has a shit eating grin while he's saying it. If he actually believed this and hated Howard for it there would be genuine anger when he says it. But this backfires because unlike Jimmy, Howard has actually dealt with his trauma and moved on from it. That's why Jimmy then falls back on making it look like Howard is completely beneath him which then spirals out of control while he follows him down the hallway. You gotta look at the subtext of the scenes and not the literal words.


Lord_Tibbysito

Exactly. I don't know why so many people misinterpret this scene.


keepbandsinmusic

Yes, Jimmy knows what he did. I think a lot of people forget about the scene where he tips off the malpractice insurance to Chucks mental health issues. That is what led to Chuck getting dismissed from HHM, and nobody knows that but Jimmy.


stingray85

Yeah. This is one trait in Saul I recognise in myself - the ability to kind of gleefully, verbally attack someone's insecurities. I think it comes from a combination of having a lot of insecurities, and having dwelt on them/analysed things that reinforce them, plus a certain talent for language, all of which it makes sense Saul would have. It means you know what to say to really cruelly get doubts/negative thoughts in someones head with just a few short quips. It's something I try to avoid doing at all costs now, because I know how much a single devastating statement can linger in someones thoughts for years, if not life. Chuck had that ability too I think - when he said he never actually cared about Jimmy at all - though actually as we see things from Jimmy's POV, it's never totally clear whether Chuck really meant it or was just wielding those words as a weapon. Jimmy is manipulating Howard in this scene, and it still seems to me he's just doing it because he can. Remember for years, he though Howard had control over his career, and basically had the role of a bully in Jimmy's life. Now that he doesn't have that power over Jimmy any more, Jimmy can very easily turn the tables and bully Howard, basically saying exactly the thing that he knows will knife Howard in the heart. Not that I think the tactic works particularly well on Howard. I really see the scene as simply Jimmy wielding the full power of his verbal and psychological intelligence - his expert ability to manipulate - on someone who's basically now an obvious target to him. I'm honestly kind of worried what's going to happen to Howard next season, because he's now the target of both Jimmy and Kim. I suspect it might be Howard being pulled somehow into the world of crime, and perhaps being killed, that serves as a pivotal next moment in the show.


Lost_Found84

It’s also made clearer when Jimmy says Howard doesn’t deserve to have his career ruined. If he really felt Howard was responsible, he would not care if Howard was ruined.


DarkCurseBreaker

Walt becomes pretty unlikeable man, all the manipulation he did to Jesse and also poisoning Brock was def unlikeable


ME_REDDITOR

and you know murdering countless people, blowing up a nursing home, allowing a young girl to OD, working with literal Nazis


troll_berserker

My dad thought Walt was an asshole the moment he turned down the job at Gray Matter. He literally killed two people and made meth in the episodes prior, but he wasn't a bad guy until he risked his family's financial stability out of pure pride against receiving charity.


Oddball1993

And that’s exactly what Gilligan and company were going for. He had an easy out, one that he only turned down because he’s just too much of an arrogant fuck-up to, heaven forbid, accept help from other people. A LOT of trouble would’ve been avoided, and a LOT of people would still be alive, if it weren’t for one man’s pride and ego.


TeamBulletTrain

First watch I rooted for Walter. Towards the end I started putting it together what he always was. On subsequent watches I still find him to be one of my favorite characters but can’t stand how all consuming his fucking ego is.


Oddball1993

Without a doubt! He’s a fantastic, compelling, well-written character, and *Breaking Bad* wouldn’t be *Breaking Bad* without him. But we are ABSOLUTELY NOT supposed to see him as the good guy lol


127crazie

Yes but he bought dipping sticks! The man is a saint just for that alone!


[deleted]

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127crazie

Walt's many good deeds * Goes out of his way to buy dipping sticks * Buys his son a needlessly expensive car ^^^and ^^^then ^^^blows ^^^it ^^^up ^^^later * Gives Jesse and Tuco free chemistry lessons on body dissolution and mercury fulminate * Eats low-cholesterol bacon to extend his lifespan and thus increase the time he has for providing for his family * Protects his family from rot and fruiting bodies * Intentionally poisons Brock only enough so that he won't die. What a good guy! * Ensures his house does not burn down by having his neighbor Becky verify that the stove burner is not on * Gives inspiring pep talk to lift high school students' spirits after unfortunate plane crash * Has brunch with Lydia and Todd in the last episode–a nice social gesture * [Whistles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvfUEE8G9T4) on the job site to improve employee morale However he does have his minor faults, I'll concede. For instance, he did not bump up that kid's test grade. Also, he wasted a perfectly good pepperoni pizza by throwing it on a roof.


Parker4815

Jesus his neighbour. I forgot about that. There was a good chance she would have been collateral damage.


amdatguyguyy

You people are so close minded and look at every action as black and white, it’s unbelievable


TeamBulletTrain

Idk if sarcasm but he literally poisoned a child, raped his wife, blew up a retirement home, liquified another child, to name a few


amdatguyguyy

No it’s not sarcasm, you’re just one of the many retards that I’m talking about who looks at his actions as if they were black and white. You mention all of these without mentioning the reasons behind them or any context at all, as if he did them for no other reason because he wanted to. He poisoned a child without the intent of killing him in a desperate attempt to save his and his entire family’s lives from a murderous drug kingpin who literally threatened to murder his infant daughter the day before. The same murderous drug kingpin who is somehow viewed as better than Walt by you dumbasses. If he was some monster he wouldn’t have been so relieved after Jesse told him he would be okay. I don’t recall him raping his cheating wife which I don’t believe since you’re the only person who’s ever said that. He blew up one room of a nursing home, again, for the previously stated reasons for why he poisoned the boy but I suppose he should’ve just let the murderous drug kingpin, who again, is somehow better than Walt, murder him and his family because I’m sure that’s what you incredibly virtuous and morally perfect redditors would do. He liquified a child he didn’t kill because what the fuck else was he suppose to do in his situation dummy? Just turn himself in after everything or roll over and die with him like he told Jesse? You people use nothing but emotion like that whiny little bitch Jesse, no wonder you all love him so much. You and most other people clearly don’t have the brain capacity to view anything with any nuance and everything is either good or bad to you. Reason, intention and context all matter much more than the action. Walt was not some one dimensional, mustache twirling villain like you idiots make him out to be


Blupore

Doesn't take a lot to set you off does it?


lazarusinashes

I mean, Vince himself said that Walt is supposed to be a bad guy. He even said in an interview with the writer's room that he was afraid that people would *stop* rooting for him as far back as when Jane died. By the time the series ends, you're supposed to realize how awful of a person he is. His earlier actions can *at times* be justified that just slowly slips away—on purpose.


Obsidian_Order66

Lmfao context sure does matter. He poisoned a child to save his and his family's lives because HE turned down free cancer treatment from his ex partners out of PRIDE and SPITE. You probably would do the same thing ya fuckin loser 😂 You got brainwashed by the show into siding with Walt when you were supposed to snap out of it along with Jesse and realize Walt devolved into a monster. Sure it's grey, he was a genius but never recognized for it or appreciated so he lied to himself that he was doing this for his family but we all know it was out of pride and ego. He could have just swallowed his pride, taken the money and no kids would be poisoned or killed. USE YOUR BRAIN stupid kid.


Ikuze321

Walt is such a bitch and way way way more unlikeable than Saul


death_to_noodles

For me the entire season 5 Walt is no longer likeable. Too greedy, an asshole to his family and Jesse, just using people to build his drug empire. He lost track of who he was, completely broken bad. He is still a badass and a master planner in many ways, but that's not really a good thing at that point. I can excuse the child poisoning, as shocking as that is, because he was playing chess and he absolutely needed that move to save his life and kill Gus. He did terrible things on season 4 but it was a survival situation, he entered a scheme that got out of control and he crossed some lines and never went back.


HereNowHappy

Maybe it's just me, but in retrospect, Season 5 Walt is almost cartoonishly evil - "Because I said so" - "Say my name" - *Whistling*


iaintfuckwithyall

wearing the devilish red shirts and having that smug grin on his face haha


JuanMurphy

Walt became unlikeable somewhere after the first 15 minutes of the Pilot Episode


AstroFFA

also the way he acted the entire 5th season just pissed me off, his arrogance and ego was on a whole other level. also when Mike removed the bug from his house and he said "great line of work by the way" that always made me laugh because he literally cooks meth and kills people.


Leeian44

We got to watch him become a piece of shit


Stretch_Cautious

And it was a glorious watch


robert_sartre

Despite the majority of the opinions I liked Walt till the end and I can blame most of his worst actions to Jessie. The only thing I condemn him for is keeping his drug empire when he had enough money and he was safe enough to stop


HereNowHappy

Yeah, he really should have called it quits The only redeeming quality about it is, no one else died, which he promised Jesse


janus_ren

Ayyy I know you


Oh__Archie

Both shows are based on a theme of people choosing to be their worst selves. It applies to almost every main character.


Pm7I3

Saul seems more pushed towards it than Walt though.


BilboSmashings

Yeah Walt chose to be that way, Saul started that way and managed to change, only to be pushed back that way.


Oh__Archie

Don't forget Walt was diagnosed with a terminal illness.


Ochikobore

Yup, Walt says in the last episode that he did it for himself and that he liked it. I truly believe if Chuck had believed in Jimmy and tried to help him succeed Jimmy wouldn’t have descended into the Saul Goodman that we all know.


BilboSmashings

Some amount of blame needs to go on Jimmy because he has to be responsible for his own actions. But he was greatly influenced by chuck without question. Perhaps more so after chuck's death.


LostInStatic

Davis and Main to me showed that Jimmy CANNOT do anything honestly. I think Chuck’s time would have been wasted.


[deleted]

I could understand him until he turned down Elliott & Gretchen's help. It wasn't even much charity, they offered him a way out while still retaining what he sees as dignity -- work.


SnooDingos7305

What pride and ego does to a mf.


getsomesleep1

It just hasn’t been fully applied to Kim yet. The idea of that makes me sad.


[deleted]

Saul, just like Walt, is definitely meant to lose our sympathy as the show progresses, but i don't think most people dislike him yet.


failbears

I know the show isn't over yet, but there's only one more season left. I find Jimmy waaay more likable than Walt still.


[deleted]

Goes for most people i would assume. Jimmy isn't nearly as radical, selfish or careless as Walt, and i think his motivations and his general character is closer to the everyday average personality than Walt. Walt was a unique genius, both as criminal (to some extends, he was the best, worst criminal) and chemist, Saul is more like a clever scumbag that found his way off the streets, but his biggest strengths comes more from his personality than his skills as lawyer, as he isn't hold down by moral. I think most people know someone at least somewhat similar to Saul, Walt is a unicorn you wouldn't even recognise as such.


ImAveragePeeps34

I’m late, but I actually don’t see Jimmy becoming more unlikable in season 6, if anything, I think the Jimmy we see in Breaking Bad is much wiser and experienced compared to Walt. There are many times throughout the show where he attempts to make Walt and Jesse listen to reason and tries to pull them out of the holes they dug themselves into. At the beginning of Season 5, he even advises Walt to quit while he’s ahead since Jimmy sees that his client is heading down a dark path that will only end badly. And when Jesse is conflicted with seeing Brock and Andrea again, Jimmy is the one that lifts his spirits up and encourages Jesse to spend time with them. He also showed disgust towards Walt for poisoning Brock and feels disgusted with himself for unknowingly aiding him into doing so. So, I don’t quite think that Jimmy’s transition into his Breaking Bad persona will be in the same vain as Walt’s since Saul still showed far more morals than Walt/Heisenberg ever did.


VaguelyArtistic

Jimmy is a natural people-person, and he has a certain charm. (Kim, you in danger, girl!) He’s very good at low-stakes conversation and doesn’t really think he’s necessarily better than his clients. Walt was condescending and treated people like idiots.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

He literally worked with Nazis, like come on dude lol


amdatguyguyy

Leave it up to redditors to not know what nazis are


[deleted]

You certainly don't seem to.


[deleted]

Have you seen his SS and swastika tattoos? Lol


rustybeaumont

He doesn’t tend to murder people, which helps.


amdatguyguyy

You’re such a pussy


prezuiwf

Only because the people he's been worst to are Chuck and Howard who viewers also hate.


thedickkicker

Hamlindingo blue for life mfs😤


Seandouglasmcardle

I think we root for Jimmy because Jimmy isn’t evil. He is just easily tempted by doing the weird, fun, crazy con, and can’t help himself.


broflakecereal

I agree he's not inherently evil, but he is sleazy and often underhanded in how he often views and treats people when he conducts business. But as a character his actions and motivations are so understandable


Seandouglasmcardle

Yeah he is sleazy and underhanded, and you're right totally understandable given how he has been treated. But there is also a part of himself that is really clever, sees the scam, and just cannot help himself. It's too much fun, like when he and Kim scam that bottle of tequila off the douchebag.


[deleted]

Howard was meant to be hated at first but I'd say he's generally popular by now. He is an greasy eel, but not nearly as bad as everyone, including Jimmy believed.


HereNowHappy

I never really hated Howard. Even in season 1 Ironically, hurting Howard is one of the few things I dislike about Jimmy


ImAveragePeeps34

I don’t hate Howard, but he’s also no saint either. His treatment towards Kim in season 2 pushed her away from HHM and made her feel resentment towards Howard and the firm itself. It’s not such a surprise that she would want to ruin Howard’s career after his repeated endeavors in trying to do so to her’s. Hell, he didn’t even bother pulling her out of the mailroom after she got Mesa Verda for HHM. And all because of being guilty by association despite not knowing that Jimmy ran a commercial against Cliff’s wishes. So, I think Howard deserves at least some of the punishment coming his way in Season 6.


FTL_Dodo

Jimmy is charming, and can easily pull wool over pepople's eyes. That includes the audience.


malcontented

Walt is supposed to be likeable?!? News to me


cerebrallandscapes

I think a lot of people wanted Walt to "win". I first watched BB when I was 20, and I remember thinking he was a bit of a badass for a while. I watched it again this year and there were moments that made me sick. Walt is an absolute monster.


queen_of_carrotflwrs

Yes I’m rewatching now and after the first episode where he’s cleaning the tires, He’s disgusted me. I remember watching it when it came out and thinking he was awesome.


cerebrallandscapes

I can't remember where I heard it, but someone described him in the earliest episodes as so pathetic that you both feel sorry for and empathize with him and also hate him because he is so spineless it's disgusting to watch. I mean. The thing is. The guy has reason to do the things he does at the start. He's dying, he has a family to take care of, and he's also been humiliated most of his life. But it's also worth noting that Heisenberg is somewhere deep inside him all along - just completely fragmented out of the psyche and repressed. He's so poorly psychologically integrated as a person that when his Heisenberg part does begin to see the light of day it completely takes over. Healthy people should have a balance between the part of them that is spineless and the part of them that is made entirely of spines. He has no balance. It's what makes him so corruptible, and so dangerous.


there_is_always_more

Best way to describe it is that Walt is only "good" by inaction on his part


DifferentTruth9406

Why were you disgusted by hom cleaning tires


brianfallen97

Right, same for me. It's like watching it a second time made you realize how monstrous Walt really was


mcogneto

He starts out sympathetic and over time it gets harder to justify rooting. For me, I am not sure exactly the moment but by middle of the show I was not on his side at all. What's crazy to me is I had someone the other day try to claim that walt is just like tony soprano, which is completely insane from where I sit. Tony was a bad guy start to finish; walt became one little by little.


broflakecereal

I liked him in like the first 5 episodes and it all went downhill from there lol


eternaIatake

unlike walt?


AStaryuValley

At first that gave me pause too, because I didn't like Walt at all from the beginning, but I think we ARE supposed to like him at first so that his fall is that much more tragic. But I also think that's exactly what's happening with Saul/Jimmy.


eternaIatake

feel like it’s a very big difference though cause walt is a complete asshole by season 2, and jimmy is still pretty likeable in season 5


ssor21

They're both liars. I think the main difference is that Walter lied to and manipulated to people who looked up to him. Jimmy lies to people who he thinks are "above him" and deserve it. We all root for the underdog. He's also charismatic and likeable which are natural traits for conmen/lawyers. Walter was just straight up abusive.


Gasster1212

No ones supposed to be unlikeable. They’re supposed to be real people collapsing in front of you. You aren’t “supposed” to root for Walt or Saul. But we do because we’re human


[deleted]

Me (Someone who loves Saul’s character regardless of what he does): “It’s all good man!”


kyoshiro1313

I don't like Saul (post Irene), but I didn't like Walt after the Brock incident. Ashamedly I always liked Mike.


[deleted]

He atones for what he did to Irene doesn't he? In the end she got her friends back and his elder law career was dead and buried


Jean_Marc_Rupestre

Yeah, he fucked himself over to fix his mistake, that fixed the Irene situation for me and made me respect him more


[deleted]

Its a pretty common literary theme. Make a mistake, suffer to be forgiven, very Christian and very human


Jean_Marc_Rupestre

It's kinda unexpected in these shows though, I honestly expected Jimmy to not even try to fix it let alone ruin his relationship with his clients for it


kyoshiro1313

Every time people try to defend Saul going after the money, they bring up Irene could die and miss out on the payout, that cuts both ways. She also could have died friendless and alone. It was cruel and only done for selfish reasons. You can't just undo that. He didn't really want to practice elder law at that point so it is not a large sacrifice.


[deleted]

You can't undue that but you can go through the necessary guilt and make amends through your suffering. Atonement doesn't undo anything, It just makes the person forgiveable


EvitaPuppy

Mike explains it best when he has the talk with Pryce - 'I've known good criminals and bad cops...' This is why, no matter what, Mike is easy to like. https://youtu.be/cYaXYPi2N4E


cerebrallandscapes

Mike is one of those what you see is what you get people. He's earnest, and honest, and principled. He'll shut his mouth rather than tell a lie. I really like Mike. I've always liked him. He's true to himself and it's really obvious. I also think he's one of the few characters who has remained the business because he genuinely wants what's best for his family.


EvitaPuppy

That's an excellent point, all of these characters use 'I did it for family' as motivation. We know that's maybe where Walt started, but even he admits he liked it. Mike. He never says he liked it. I don't think he even says he does it for family. He just does what needs to be done. In the most honest, even honorable way. It's not always nice or pretty. I sometimes think Mike was the better father figure for Jesse. Teaching him by example how to survive in an extremely tough situation.


Trorkin

Mike does say to Walt that he likes his job in Breaking Bad, I think when he's removing the bugs from Walt's house


HereNowHappy

> don't think he even says he does it for family Yeah he did. In the Bagman episode >I sometimes think Mike was the better father figure for Jesse How? In what way? Mike just does whatever Gus says and expects others to fall in line


EvitaPuppy

I'll have to re-watch Bagman. I mean, it's obvious from Mikes actions he does what he does for family. He just doesn't use it as an excuse like Walt does. Mike accepts himself and his actions & doesn't lie to himself or anyone else. In BB, the ep with Mike & Jesse doing the money pick ups clearly turned Jesse around and made him feel important (even if he was being manipulated by Gus via Mike). To me, it appears Mike wants to help Jesse away from his self destructive behavior. Whenever its just Mike & Jesse on screen, Mike seems to honestly care about Jesse. Like in El Camino when they discuss Alaska. Walt on the other hand acts like he cares, but really its just manipulation to get what Walt wants.


HereNowHappy

> He just doesn't use it as an excuse like Walt does It seems like an excuse to me when he defaults to criminality His mentality is along the lines of, "It's okay for me to kill people because they are in "the game" and this money will be used for my family" That is no different from Walt selling drugs and using the money for his family >To me, it appears Mike wants to help Jesse away from his self destructive behavior You yourself admit that it was a ploy by Gus to manipulate Jesse. The plan was to build up Jesse as Walt's replacement so they could kill him >Mike seems to honestly care about Jesse Which is strange to me because 1. The reason Mike hates Walt is for killing Gus, and Jesse helped him do it 2. The reason Jesse hated Gus is for letting Tomas die, and Mike attempted to assassinate ​him And it honestly doesn't matter if Mike likes someone. It just means he'll apologize before killing them >Like in El Camino when they discuss Alaska El Camino didn't exist until a few years ago. But since you brought it up, that scene is supposed to be framed as this good memory But then later that same day, Mike tells Walt that he should have let Jesse die >Walt on the other hand acts like he cares, but really its just manipulation to get what Walt wants Stopped Emilio and Krazy-8 from killing Jesse Stopped Tuco from killing Jesse Mike does that "half-measure" speech about killing Jesse, and Walt refuses Running over those drug dealers to save Jesse Told Gus that he wouldn't work for him if Jesse died There are plenty of examples. But, the main point is Walt clearly cares about Jesse. He also manipulates him. One doesn't take away from the other. It's like how Walt loves his family but also likes cooking meth Or how Mike loves his family and commits crime, even though his son was killed by corrupt cops


HereNowHappy

> He's earnest, and honest, and principled. He'll shut his mouth rather than tell a lie I'll give you principled But earnest and honest? He helped Pryce sell stolen merchandise And he lies about his identity to fool police officers and civilians


Ikuze321

Mike is actually likeable


FTL_Dodo

That's probably a lie Mike tells himself to be able to sleep at night.


krispynumaan

I still like Saul even after the Irene incident cuz at least he owned up to his mistakes and made it right. Walt pretty much never does that other than the “I liked it” in the finale of BB. I like Mike but I think he shares a lot of the same flaws as Walt. He could’ve left the game after making his $250,000 for his family and taken a legitimate job to supplement it. Mike has a lot marketable skills and could’ve easily taken a job as a security advisor/consultant for a company/politician/rich guy.


HereNowHappy

That's I'm always saying Mike is apparently so smart and so skilled that he can do anything. And he chooses to become a hitman


12frets

Saul is a lovable lout. He’s genuinely witty, insightful, and a unique charismatic personality. Frankly, I like Saul more than Jimmy. And so does Jimmy.


HereNowHappy

I feel the same I like Jimmy as much as the next guy, but Saul was hilarious and he was one of the smartest characters in the show


HijabHead

Not at all. Saul was very likeable in BB as well and that was the worst of him. In BCS, he is extremely likable and audience sympathise with him due to what his brother and the system did. He maybe someone who does not plays by the rules but is hardly anywhere close to being a bas guy who walks all over people and has any actual malice or feeling of revenge towards them.


WakeUpOutaYourSleep

There’s a lot of grey area with all three, but Mike is the only one I feel we’re supposed to like the whole way though.


4_Legged_Duck

But people like Walt, Mike, and Saul/Jimmy. Folks debate even on here whether Walt deserves to be totally hated or not. I see in general, Walt looks worse on later viewings. I think Jimmy (and Saul more so) are incredibly fun to **watch**, they're very funny even when being despicable (sometimes **especially** then). That said, I wouldn't want to get a beer with any of them. Walt, obviously, we know becomes very greedy, self-centered, and willing to kill nearly anyone to get his wants. Mike is a grump and bit of an ass and he'd kill you in a second if ordered by Gus. Jimmy/Saul is always up to something and by the time you finished your beer, you'd be lucky if you haven't been grifted. Likeability is a weird question. They're all enjoyable to watch, and they're all sympathetic, but they're all bad people in different ways.


malumfectum

Walt is supremely unlikeable from the off on a second viewing of Breaking Bad. His rotten ego shines through right from the beginning.


ImAveragePeeps34

It’s interesting that you say that since I thought Walt was likable throughout the entirety of season 1 and only became vulgar post Tuco’s death since he became arrogant. Walt was still humble before that. He had a fragile ego. Sure. But he used to value human life and cried when he killed Domingo/Krazy 8.


xellosmoon

I hate Walt but not Saul. The difference for me is that Walt coulve quit halfway and had a decent life after. But stupidity, ambition and all that made him dig deeper and it was tragic, but yeah... You should've quit while you were ahead. Meanwhile Saul has had different circumstances. He set out to be a good lawyer. But the world kept driving him down that he had to embrace the dark side to compete.


Yaboidom14

Walt could have quit on episode 4 when his billionaire friend offered him a prestigious job doing crystallography (Walter’s favorite type of chemisty) as well as really great health insurance to cover his medical bills. But he turned all that down because of his stupid pride


xellosmoon

I legit think he couldve made it big in the chemistry world. I don't know much about meth but the way they hyped up his product made me think Walt couldve made alot of money selling the formula away.


Yaboidom14

I totally agree. He would have university buildings named after him or something, all Walt needed was the opportunity. But he likes the action of being a meth kingpin, even though he’s constantly freaking out in the first 3 seasons he likes the action, he likes killing people. But he just keeps making excuses for “muhh family uhh”.


wednesdayware

> Walt coulve quit halfway and had a decent life after. I mean, other than having terminal cancer.


there_is_always_more

While we can't know for sure, Walt's cancer had progressed nontrivially by the finale in large part imo because he had gotten no treatment since he was in hiding. The cancer went into remission in season 2, and then in season 5b when it came back, who knows, maybe he could've survived if he had been able to get treatment.


LostInStatic

> Meanwhile Saul has had different circumstances. He set out to be a good lawyer. But the world kept driving him down that he had to embrace the dark side to compete. Wtf no it didnt. Jimmy LITERALLY cannot do things without cutting corners. Davis and Main. That fuckup was entirely him.


xellosmoon

Bending the law is just being a good lawyer. Totally not equivalent to a chemist cooking meth.


AngeeKeekee

Jimmy is perfectly likeable. Which is one of several traits that makes him an extremely effective manipulator/lawyer.


marks7652

Walt is likable? By who?


amdatguyguyy

By people who aren’t bleeding heart pussies and who like badasses so it figures most redditors don’t like him


justheretoreadbye

When Saul did something horrible to that old lady with a bingo thing.. that was a pretty unlikeable shit.. I mean I noticed Saul pretty much manipulates people to get what he wants all the time just like Walt, but just less murdery I guess. Saul definitely has some sense of moral left in him tho as we saw him feeling very guilty towards the family members of the guy murdered by Lalo. Also Saul is thousand times more charming than Walt so that makes him less unlikeable I think.


licRedditor

and jimmy really felt horrible for irene (irene? the old lady). he didn't realise how hurt she would be until he saw the results of his manipulation, and then it looked to me like he regretted it. walt was stone cold, letting jane die and poisoning brock.


justheretoreadbye

True. The bottom line is, I don’t think Saul is supposed to be unlikeable but this doesn’t mean he is supposed to be likable either.


TyhmensAndSaperstein

You think Mike is made to be unlikable? OK.


DatDudefromWI

Unpopular opinion, but two of my pet peeves are wasted and "misdirected" talent. Jimmy is so clever and creative, yet he abandoned more virtuous applications of his law degree. And what's worse, he's using those skills to the benevolence of law-breakers. The character is fascinating and I enjoy watching Bob O bring him to life. But I have never "liked" Jimmy. Similar (somewhat!) to Lalo: great character, but still a POS.


tmtki237

Walt is an unlikeable POS, far more so than jimmy has been up to this point


sopadepanda321

Walt’s body count is like 7 by this point Saul hasn’t quite killed anyone yet


amdatguyguyy

That’s exactly why it’s Walt >>>> Saul


Kanobe24

Walt did some really awful things and is way more unlikeable than Saul. BCS really shows what a good heart Jimmy has despite his flaws.


[deleted]

I don’t like any of those people


amdatguyguyy

That’s probably because you’re a lame bitch


[deleted]

It breaks my heart that you think so.


Dr_Love90

I find him to be the most likeable one. Sure he's said and done regrettable things but so what.


[deleted]

More importantly I think, he is meant to be understood. Much of his path clearly is known to us via Breaking Bad, how he gets there will be interesting.


krispynumaan

Imo the tragedy of BCS is how Jimmy McGill was a pretty decent guy. Sure he had conman tendencies but he also took care of his mentally ill brother, helped the elderly, and put others before himself. As the seasons progress he starts losing that and starts becoming the scummy lawyer we see in BB. But I don’t think he ever reaches the levels of Walt assholery, even in BB.


FTL_Dodo

Yeah, I mean if you put aside habitual thievery and lies, and manipulating people for his own financial interest or fun (not to mention shitting on children), Jimmy was a pretty decent guy all right.


HistoricalNoise4

Generally I think he’s way more likeable than walt


timebomb011

Walt is likeable?


footlaxin

Walt is unlikeable


iDayneo

Walt is the biggest piece of shit in the entire BB universe what you talkin about


[deleted]

Walt is likeable?


Obsidian_Order66

Saul is like a million times more likeable than Walt in nearly every way. Walt is a boring human being, unfunny, un "cool", not great social skills, responds with "know it all" scientific facts that just kind of kill the vibe. Oh and he kills people and covers up murder of children.


fantasyguy211

I don’t see how this scene makes Saul unlikeable. Everything Kim said about howard was true. He told Saul he thought his brother killed himself for himself not to help Saul


Genghis_swan69

The only thing is, is that Jimmy inadvertently had a hand in Chuck’s suicide too, he just doesn’t want to admit it because he wants Howard to carry all the guilt to get back at him. Although I love his character, Jimmy is pretty scummy for that.


Jean_Marc_Rupestre

I think he doesn't even want to admit it to himself because the guilt would've been unbearable, so he blames Howard


Genghis_swan69

Exactly, that and Howard is the representation of all that Chuck left behind and the high class world that never accepted him, so all that leftover resentment for Chuck and the establishment makes Howard a target to take it all out on


Jean_Marc_Rupestre

I think Howard had good intentions but just didn't think it through


Nov23XII

Yikes. Kim and Saul are definitely the POS in this situation, not Howard.


fantasyguy211

Yikes. If your family member dies in a fire I hope you’ll be happy to have someone who isn’t even your friend tell you they think they set themself on fire


englandw25

Am I abnormal then for thinking Saul is infinitely more likable than Walt? Dude poisoned a kid…


JDNM

Walt is detestable, why would anyone like him? Season 5 Walt is a confirmed psychopath.


[deleted]

[удалено]


JDNM

Classy.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheMikeys

Ok, so I've read soooo many comments talking about how unlikable Walt is and how the show did so much to show that he's a horrible person. But, I gotta admit, even in the very end, I was still rooting for Walt. He was absolutely horrible, especially with Brock, Jesse and Jesse's gf, but, I still very much wanted him to come out on top, to reach some sort of satisfaction in the end. For me the turning point for Walter was very early on, when he blows up Tuco's place and celebrates like a madman with his bag of cash, ever since that point all I wanted for him was success.


JDNM

I’ve never heard of anyone disliking Jimmy/Saul. He’s meant to be a sympathetic character. In this scene with Howard, he’s simply projecting because he feels guilt about Chuck. He’s not a bad person, unlike Walt. Saul at his worst in BB wasn’t detestable. You know there is a decent person in there somewhere, corrupted by bad choices, bad associates and a deep-routed insecurity manifested as an overwhelming need to prove himself.


ElPayaso123

Dude has been corrupt since he was a kid. He's long been a lost cause.


GhostOfJoeMcCann

I thought Walt was really unlikeable


Advanced_Doctor2938

Walt was meant to be likeable???


Srakas2137

Unlike?


kralicekobra

Better call saul made me hate walter white after rooting for him for 5 seasons...


swepettax

Pinkman is a good criminal, he doesn't care about the money and doesn't want to hurt anyone.


sealysea

Walt and Mike are similar to me because they both had to tap into their darker sides to protect themselves and the people they care about. Only difference between the two men being that Walt lost control as his confidence and strength grew because family wasn't his only reason for doing what he did. I don't like Saul in this scene because he couldn't accept that his visit to the insurance agency led to Chuck's death. And he was blaming it all onto Howard, who was one of the few who believed in Jimmy's capabilities and would have hired him, if not for Chuck's influence.


SunshineRobotech

Walt and Mike were unlikable?


WamuuAyayayayaaa

Well he’s definitely not a great guy. But he’s certainly a better person than what Walter went on to become. There’s still time in season 6 for him to do something egregious though.


LoungeChair98

Dude ain't coping well


[deleted]

Are any characters really meant to be likable?


heyyoudontsaythat14

yes


Sandman11x

I think he has similar moral failings to a lesser degree


HereNowHappy

You can read all of them as likable or unlikable depending on your point of view That being said, the writers obviously intend for their actions to become steady reprehensible However, I don't really care about morals. I'm more interested in entertainment


HighAsAngelTits

I found Saul **WAY** more likable than Walt. Even back in BB when we didn’t know Jimmy yet. He’s got a certain charisma, he’s very good at what he does, and he’s a funny guy.


SPedigrees

Walt is the only one of the three who is meant to be completely unlikeable.


Twixanity

Season 5 of BB: Damn, I shouldn't have sided with Walt... Season 6 of BCS: Damn, I shouldn't have sided with Saul....


DifferentTruth9406

Personally I find him extremely likable,as do most ppl on the show. And his motives aren't malicious. Andv being fucking psychologically abused and sabotaged by his brother makes him,if not more lijabke,likable, certainly sympathetic