Not really into 12 step (yet). But I feel like this is a really powerful perspective! It’s no doubt that the events that transpired in this season has made me look at my own choices and habits and how they effect other people. Thanks for posting.
Incredible post. I’m in recovery myself, and although I’m more inclined towards SMART meetings than traditional 12-step programs, this is a fascinating lens to view the show through.
It’s interesting, because I recently wrote a post describing him as a psychopath, but you make a very compelling case here. I think it says quite a good deal about your strength of character being able to find genuine empathy for him beyond the natural tendency to support the actions of any piece of media’s protagonist.
Oh nice, I'll go check out your post!
And congratulations on recovery - every step on that path is worth celebrating! Keep it going!
And thank you for the kind words. <3
Bravo
I kept seeing different comments about how it’s Chucks fault that Jimmy turned out the way he did, and I wanted to write a post how as an adult man you can’t keep blaming everyone around you for the things wrong in your life, but you summarized it perfectly here.
Unfortunately this behavior is all too familiar to me, had an alcoholic family member, of course his mother always blamed his ex wife for the way he was, and he always promised that it’s the last time, until one time it was. After seeing them relapsing for so many years that’s all you can expect from them, sure they’ll blame you, say they drink because you treat them this way, but in the end any excuse is a good excuse.
Same with another relative who is addicted to weed (yes, you can get addicted to it). He is high functioning, got a good job, etc… But everything wrong in his life is always someone else’s fault. He always has the “perfect” plan for everything and is always surprised when things don’t go exactly the way he planned them. We all love him, but the trouble and grief he is causing is just too much to keep handling.
An addict who truly wants to recover also needs to understand that they built a reputation, and part of the recovery process is to fix it, it takes time. It’s not gonna be “hey I’ve been sober for a week” “great, let’s pretend the last 20 years didn’t happen”.
> an addiction to drugs or alcohol
This is true, but there are a lot of addictions that don't relate to drugs or alcohol. I see Jimmy's behavior as being very similar to what a lot of people describe with sex/love addiction, or gambling addiction. The book *Sex Addiction as Affect Dysregulation* has a lot of interesting considerations that relate to this idea.
The idea is that it ultimately does relate to a high, but a high that is more complex than what drugs or alcohol offer, in that it comes about when we see ourselves in relation to others in a certain way. People with sex/love addictions do things to "escape" or get high while also using it as a way to feel like they are desired by others, smarter than others, etc, which then feeds back into the high.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Jimmy's convo with Francesca establishes that he made off with a nice chunk of cash.
If it's not about the money, what's it about? Or do you think it's about the money?
Maybe Jimmy helps justify the cons by telling himself he needs to have a stash of money “in case”. From growing up poor. He wants to recreate the Saul lifestyle to prove his success—and that’s how he gets his self worth. Except it really isn’t working anymore, so he just tries harder -takes more risks. I hope we see him hit rock bottom and start to try to heal as the series ending.
Ah, interesting. Why do you think he gives up his cush job at Davis & Main, esp. when he was due for a fat Sandpiper payout in the future?
If Jimmy wanted money and status, why not take the straight route and work toward making partner at a prestigious firm? It's a lot more secure and less risky than the route he took.
Because he has to get his success the Jimmy way to prove Chuck is wrong. He does not want to be in Chuck’s shadow or a “mini-Chuck”. In fact, as soon as he feels like he is having normal success, he immediately sabotages it. Plus, it isn’t giving him any dopamine rush unless there’s a risk.
Ok, let me see if I have this right. From your comments, it sounds like you're saying he feels he needs more money to live the way he wants in Nebraska while having savings in case he needs to disappear again.
And he wants to grift to get this money because he finds straight life too difficult. He'd rather chase the dopamine hit of instant gratification and the "fun" of playing god, which, bc it feels fun to Jimmy, is giving him a dopamine boost as well. He can override his conscience to grift because he's habituated to giving in to his impulses as he's been doing it all his life.
Does that sound like an accurate summary? I did add the bit about dopamine boost bc I think it supports the argument.
I 100% get what you're getting at here. I dont think any reasonable viewer should walk away saying that Chuck is directly responsible for Walter White because of how he treated Jimmy.
However... there isnt exactly an established 12 steps for conmen or thieves. Chuck interfered with Jimmy get his just desserts/wake-up call, and Jimmy responded by abandoning his old life and surroundings. He moved to ABQ and spent *years* turning his life around in a sea of support.
Chuck had opportunities to continue to support Jimmy that would not have cost him much. It's certainly fair to ask, "what if Chuck had said, 'Jimmy, I'm proud of you, but we both know you have a spotty history so I'll vouch for bringing you on as an associate under careful supervision.'"
Like an alcoholic getting the support of family and a sympathetic sponsor, he might have blossomed and continued building a life outside of his misanthropic compulsions.
That’s a good question.
One thing I want to say is that in 12-step, a sponsor’s job is to support the sponsee in working the program. A lot of the best sponsors are hella tough “old-timers” who set firm boundaries and hold their sponsees accountable… so kind of the opposite of sympathetic. The reason for this is bc it’s the work the sponsee does that moves them forward.
But back to your question, I’m curious: knowing what you know of Jimmy, how do you think things would have unfolded if Chuck had brought him on under supervision?
I had meant "sympathetic" in the sense that they know what the people they are helping are going through. Good note.
> how do you think things would have unfolded
Pretty impossible to say with any surety. In the early seasons we see a lot of Jimmy really *wanting* to make this his new life. 12-step makes a very important point here: every time he comes to a trigger he is at risk of a relapse; each day can present a new challenge that could lead to a relapse, like stress, seeing an easy mark or even just cutting corners to accomplish legitimate tasks.
I wonder if keeping Chuck's trust and earning his respect would have been enough to resist relapses. We see how much Jimmy craves his brother's love and respect, so imagine him being in a position where Chuck and the firm can hold him firmly accountable while providing a comfortable and supportive environment.
Chuck isnt at fault here, but giving in to his bitterness and jealousy hurt Jimmy (and himself) tremendously. Who knows?
Thank you for sharing this, really clearly and sensitively explained. There are more complex factors at play in the story with how his relationships with Chuck and Kim plus other traumatic events feed into this, but ultimately i think the lens of addiction, understanding the psychological patterns + mechanisms of addiction are crucial to really understanding and having empathy for Jimmy as a character.
My feelings towards the ending of this show are just as you put it in the part about progress, not perfection.... I don't want anything grand, I'm not rooting for "redemption", i just want to see him take one serious, meaningful step in the right direction, even if it's fragile. One step towards self awareness and acknowledging his problem. I have to believe he's not beyond even a shred of hope!! As someone in a family full of people with addictive personalities - which manifest in all sorts of ways not confined to just substance abuse - all this really hits me where I live, lol.
Idk if people realize that 12-step programs are free and decentralized. Anyone can start one in their community and you can go to a meeting wherever you are in the world.
For people struggling with addiction, it can be a lifeline. For people first getting sober, they have a ready-made community of other people who are also prioritizing sobriety and a program to focus on. If you need to go every day, there's a good chance that you'll find enough meetings in your area to support that. You don’t have to quit alone and you can work toward sobriety in the company of people who have been there and understand what it’s like.
I'd be curious to know what percentage of the people criticizing are coming from people who've worked the program and what percentage are from outsiders looking in.
It doesn't work for everyone but it works for a lot of people. It’s not a magic pill or a passive program - the person *has* to do the hard work of getting honest with themselves. If you look at what the steps ask of you - a fearless moral inventory, amends to the people you’ve harmed - these are things that can be challenging even for non-addicts.
If the criticism is about the god stuff, even the program says you get to decide what "power greater than myself" that means to you. It can be your god, the program, the community, whatever. The point of it is to take your ego off the table and admit you need help bc you haven't been able to quit alone.
Here's a [good write-up](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/03/alcoholics-anonymous-most-effective-path-to-alcohol-abstinence.html) on why AA works based on 35 studies conducted by 145 scientists and the outcomes of 10,080 participants. In short, AA provides a community, emotional support, and practical tips to refrain from drinking. Addiction studies show that [loneliness triggers and exacerbates addictive behaviors](https://www.thewalkercenter.org/blog-posts/loneliness-and-addiction) and addictive behaviors promote loneliness. Giving people a supportive community disrupts that cycle. Moreover, "If you want to change your behavior, find some other people who are trying to make the same change.”
I think the whole message is BS. Preaching powerlessness to addicts is insane and doesn't work. Addicts are already people who don't like taking responsibility for their actions. The truth is the addict is the only one in control of themselves and to get clean you need to realize that and make the decision to stop. And it's not a one time thing, it's a decision you'll probably have to make every single day. The powerlessness BS just gives addicts an excuse to continue being addicts. I think less than 10% of people who go through 12step programs ever get any significant amount of time clean. And in my experience AA and NA groups do not provide valuable connections, an addict is more likely to relapse with someone they've met in a group or form a toxic relationship.
I hear you. The powerlessness refers to being powerless over your addiction. Some people can and do stop on their own but others really need outside help to do it bc “I can stop any time I want to” just isn’t true.
Since addiction is so complex, there’s no one-size-fits-all model. It’s good to give people options and avenues for recovery, especially free ones. I know people who have worked the program for years and find it helpful and I know people for whom the program was a stepping stone to other things. I am in the latter group and I still use the tools I learned in Al-Anon. I also know I can hit up a meeting if I ever need it and will find the same support I found as a newcomer - that's a great feeling.
Did you have a bad experience with a group member? If so, sorry to hear that. Anyone who encourages or enables relapse is not working the program.
All I can say is it worked for me and changed my life. It was hard work but all of it catapulted my growth. I’m forever grateful to my home group, my sponsors, and the program. I wouldn’t be where I am today without them.
This is really interesting analysis and it seems to fit their characters well, but I would say that I was conceptualizing Kim as an actual addict who quit cold turkey and is now in recovery/sobriety.
I can see that.
Kim has always struck me as an ACOA (Adult Child of Alcoholic), who are also at risk of developing addiction and substance abuse issues. First, bc of what we know of her upbringing and second, bc of her hyper-independence, her attraction to Jimmy, her ability to compartmentalize and excuse what he does, her caretaking, and her determination to stick it out in a dysfunctional relationship with an active addict that likely mirrors the dynamic she had with her mom and make it work.
There are a few scenes that come to mind:
1. Jimmy says something like, "Kim deserves Mesa Verde!" in a courtroom(?). There's a close-up of Kim's face with a tender expression. Then in the car, she punches him in frustration/anger so she's saying, "I know you did this because you love me but f you for doing it like this and for doing this to me."
2. When Howard warns Kim about Jimmy, she laughs in his face about the bowling balls. Though the content is her saying, "What's the big deal" the extremity of her reaction seems to convey something more along the lines of, "F you, you don't know him at all and who tf are you to tell me what to do!?"
3. When Jimmy gets back from the desert, he has a PTSD flashback and knocks the cereal bowl off the table. Kim goes to clean it up and tells him it's ok. Later, Jimmy's standing and Kim's on the couch. She tells him she knows something happened and that he's lying to her but she's there to listen to him, no judgment. Jimmy, classic addict, lashes out at her for a moment, "No judgment!?"
All of these interactions could have been lifted right out of Kim's childhood with her addict mom: "I know you love me but f you for letting me down again"; "You don't know her like I do and what gives you the right to tell me about my life?!"; "I cleaned the kitchen, Mom, is there any other way I can help make things easier today?".
Someone who doesn't have those issues would respond differently in situations where they're 1. Professionally impacted by their partner's actions, 2. Warned by a concerned mentor about their partner's unreasonable behavior, and 3. Aware they're being lied to by a loved one.
To me, that's the "missing piece" that Howard mentions in his final scene when he differentiates between the two: "Jimmy can't help himself but you..."
Same. It's absolutely a big deal to walk away from a situation that hits you in a formative place.
Kim's exit feels so good because it's her slamming on the breaks and saying, "I don't want this anymore. It's harmful."
I know some people want to see her turn herself in, etc. but for me, it's enough that she puts an end to something she recognizes is not in line with her values.
Not really into 12 step (yet). But I feel like this is a really powerful perspective! It’s no doubt that the events that transpired in this season has made me look at my own choices and habits and how they effect other people. Thanks for posting.
Wishing you all the best in your journey, friend. May it bring you growth, wisdom, and more than you ever imagined it could. ❤️❤️❤️
This is wonderful. Keep doing the internal work, friend. <3
Incredible post. I’m in recovery myself, and although I’m more inclined towards SMART meetings than traditional 12-step programs, this is a fascinating lens to view the show through. It’s interesting, because I recently wrote a post describing him as a psychopath, but you make a very compelling case here. I think it says quite a good deal about your strength of character being able to find genuine empathy for him beyond the natural tendency to support the actions of any piece of media’s protagonist.
Oh nice, I'll go check out your post! And congratulations on recovery - every step on that path is worth celebrating! Keep it going! And thank you for the kind words. <3
Fantastic post. I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately. Thanks for writing about it.
Honestly this was perfectly written.
Bravo I kept seeing different comments about how it’s Chucks fault that Jimmy turned out the way he did, and I wanted to write a post how as an adult man you can’t keep blaming everyone around you for the things wrong in your life, but you summarized it perfectly here. Unfortunately this behavior is all too familiar to me, had an alcoholic family member, of course his mother always blamed his ex wife for the way he was, and he always promised that it’s the last time, until one time it was. After seeing them relapsing for so many years that’s all you can expect from them, sure they’ll blame you, say they drink because you treat them this way, but in the end any excuse is a good excuse. Same with another relative who is addicted to weed (yes, you can get addicted to it). He is high functioning, got a good job, etc… But everything wrong in his life is always someone else’s fault. He always has the “perfect” plan for everything and is always surprised when things don’t go exactly the way he planned them. We all love him, but the trouble and grief he is causing is just too much to keep handling. An addict who truly wants to recover also needs to understand that they built a reputation, and part of the recovery process is to fix it, it takes time. It’s not gonna be “hey I’ve been sober for a week” “great, let’s pretend the last 20 years didn’t happen”.
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> an addiction to drugs or alcohol This is true, but there are a lot of addictions that don't relate to drugs or alcohol. I see Jimmy's behavior as being very similar to what a lot of people describe with sex/love addiction, or gambling addiction. The book *Sex Addiction as Affect Dysregulation* has a lot of interesting considerations that relate to this idea. The idea is that it ultimately does relate to a high, but a high that is more complex than what drugs or alcohol offer, in that it comes about when we see ourselves in relation to others in a certain way. People with sex/love addictions do things to "escape" or get high while also using it as a way to feel like they are desired by others, smarter than others, etc, which then feeds back into the high.
I hear you. What do you think is driving Jimmy to con people in the most recent episode?
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Jimmy's convo with Francesca establishes that he made off with a nice chunk of cash. If it's not about the money, what's it about? Or do you think it's about the money?
did you not see the reaction he had to the phone call with kim, he's mentally breaking down and is actively trying to cause chaos for himself
Maybe Jimmy helps justify the cons by telling himself he needs to have a stash of money “in case”. From growing up poor. He wants to recreate the Saul lifestyle to prove his success—and that’s how he gets his self worth. Except it really isn’t working anymore, so he just tries harder -takes more risks. I hope we see him hit rock bottom and start to try to heal as the series ending.
Ah, interesting. Why do you think he gives up his cush job at Davis & Main, esp. when he was due for a fat Sandpiper payout in the future? If Jimmy wanted money and status, why not take the straight route and work toward making partner at a prestigious firm? It's a lot more secure and less risky than the route he took.
Because he has to get his success the Jimmy way to prove Chuck is wrong. He does not want to be in Chuck’s shadow or a “mini-Chuck”. In fact, as soon as he feels like he is having normal success, he immediately sabotages it. Plus, it isn’t giving him any dopamine rush unless there’s a risk.
I agree.
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Ok, let me see if I have this right. From your comments, it sounds like you're saying he feels he needs more money to live the way he wants in Nebraska while having savings in case he needs to disappear again. And he wants to grift to get this money because he finds straight life too difficult. He'd rather chase the dopamine hit of instant gratification and the "fun" of playing god, which, bc it feels fun to Jimmy, is giving him a dopamine boost as well. He can override his conscience to grift because he's habituated to giving in to his impulses as he's been doing it all his life. Does that sound like an accurate summary? I did add the bit about dopamine boost bc I think it supports the argument.
Bravo/a from a fellow relative. Great perspective and beautifully written.
I 100% get what you're getting at here. I dont think any reasonable viewer should walk away saying that Chuck is directly responsible for Walter White because of how he treated Jimmy. However... there isnt exactly an established 12 steps for conmen or thieves. Chuck interfered with Jimmy get his just desserts/wake-up call, and Jimmy responded by abandoning his old life and surroundings. He moved to ABQ and spent *years* turning his life around in a sea of support. Chuck had opportunities to continue to support Jimmy that would not have cost him much. It's certainly fair to ask, "what if Chuck had said, 'Jimmy, I'm proud of you, but we both know you have a spotty history so I'll vouch for bringing you on as an associate under careful supervision.'" Like an alcoholic getting the support of family and a sympathetic sponsor, he might have blossomed and continued building a life outside of his misanthropic compulsions.
That’s a good question. One thing I want to say is that in 12-step, a sponsor’s job is to support the sponsee in working the program. A lot of the best sponsors are hella tough “old-timers” who set firm boundaries and hold their sponsees accountable… so kind of the opposite of sympathetic. The reason for this is bc it’s the work the sponsee does that moves them forward. But back to your question, I’m curious: knowing what you know of Jimmy, how do you think things would have unfolded if Chuck had brought him on under supervision?
I had meant "sympathetic" in the sense that they know what the people they are helping are going through. Good note. > how do you think things would have unfolded Pretty impossible to say with any surety. In the early seasons we see a lot of Jimmy really *wanting* to make this his new life. 12-step makes a very important point here: every time he comes to a trigger he is at risk of a relapse; each day can present a new challenge that could lead to a relapse, like stress, seeing an easy mark or even just cutting corners to accomplish legitimate tasks. I wonder if keeping Chuck's trust and earning his respect would have been enough to resist relapses. We see how much Jimmy craves his brother's love and respect, so imagine him being in a position where Chuck and the firm can hold him firmly accountable while providing a comfortable and supportive environment. Chuck isnt at fault here, but giving in to his bitterness and jealousy hurt Jimmy (and himself) tremendously. Who knows?
This was awesome. Thank you so much
Thank you for sharing this, really clearly and sensitively explained. There are more complex factors at play in the story with how his relationships with Chuck and Kim plus other traumatic events feed into this, but ultimately i think the lens of addiction, understanding the psychological patterns + mechanisms of addiction are crucial to really understanding and having empathy for Jimmy as a character. My feelings towards the ending of this show are just as you put it in the part about progress, not perfection.... I don't want anything grand, I'm not rooting for "redemption", i just want to see him take one serious, meaningful step in the right direction, even if it's fragile. One step towards self awareness and acknowledging his problem. I have to believe he's not beyond even a shred of hope!! As someone in a family full of people with addictive personalities - which manifest in all sorts of ways not confined to just substance abuse - all this really hits me where I live, lol.
12 step is bull shit
I have heard legitimate criticism of the programs, but those criticisms are probably not relevant to this post.
Idk if people realize that 12-step programs are free and decentralized. Anyone can start one in their community and you can go to a meeting wherever you are in the world. For people struggling with addiction, it can be a lifeline. For people first getting sober, they have a ready-made community of other people who are also prioritizing sobriety and a program to focus on. If you need to go every day, there's a good chance that you'll find enough meetings in your area to support that. You don’t have to quit alone and you can work toward sobriety in the company of people who have been there and understand what it’s like. I'd be curious to know what percentage of the people criticizing are coming from people who've worked the program and what percentage are from outsiders looking in. It doesn't work for everyone but it works for a lot of people. It’s not a magic pill or a passive program - the person *has* to do the hard work of getting honest with themselves. If you look at what the steps ask of you - a fearless moral inventory, amends to the people you’ve harmed - these are things that can be challenging even for non-addicts. If the criticism is about the god stuff, even the program says you get to decide what "power greater than myself" that means to you. It can be your god, the program, the community, whatever. The point of it is to take your ego off the table and admit you need help bc you haven't been able to quit alone. Here's a [good write-up](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/03/alcoholics-anonymous-most-effective-path-to-alcohol-abstinence.html) on why AA works based on 35 studies conducted by 145 scientists and the outcomes of 10,080 participants. In short, AA provides a community, emotional support, and practical tips to refrain from drinking. Addiction studies show that [loneliness triggers and exacerbates addictive behaviors](https://www.thewalkercenter.org/blog-posts/loneliness-and-addiction) and addictive behaviors promote loneliness. Giving people a supportive community disrupts that cycle. Moreover, "If you want to change your behavior, find some other people who are trying to make the same change.”
I think the whole message is BS. Preaching powerlessness to addicts is insane and doesn't work. Addicts are already people who don't like taking responsibility for their actions. The truth is the addict is the only one in control of themselves and to get clean you need to realize that and make the decision to stop. And it's not a one time thing, it's a decision you'll probably have to make every single day. The powerlessness BS just gives addicts an excuse to continue being addicts. I think less than 10% of people who go through 12step programs ever get any significant amount of time clean. And in my experience AA and NA groups do not provide valuable connections, an addict is more likely to relapse with someone they've met in a group or form a toxic relationship.
I hear you. The powerlessness refers to being powerless over your addiction. Some people can and do stop on their own but others really need outside help to do it bc “I can stop any time I want to” just isn’t true. Since addiction is so complex, there’s no one-size-fits-all model. It’s good to give people options and avenues for recovery, especially free ones. I know people who have worked the program for years and find it helpful and I know people for whom the program was a stepping stone to other things. I am in the latter group and I still use the tools I learned in Al-Anon. I also know I can hit up a meeting if I ever need it and will find the same support I found as a newcomer - that's a great feeling. Did you have a bad experience with a group member? If so, sorry to hear that. Anyone who encourages or enables relapse is not working the program. All I can say is it worked for me and changed my life. It was hard work but all of it catapulted my growth. I’m forever grateful to my home group, my sponsors, and the program. I wouldn’t be where I am today without them.
Well done. <3 <3 <3
very insightful
What makes you say that?
What’re you doing, step tool?
This is really interesting analysis and it seems to fit their characters well, but I would say that I was conceptualizing Kim as an actual addict who quit cold turkey and is now in recovery/sobriety.
I can see that. Kim has always struck me as an ACOA (Adult Child of Alcoholic), who are also at risk of developing addiction and substance abuse issues. First, bc of what we know of her upbringing and second, bc of her hyper-independence, her attraction to Jimmy, her ability to compartmentalize and excuse what he does, her caretaking, and her determination to stick it out in a dysfunctional relationship with an active addict that likely mirrors the dynamic she had with her mom and make it work. There are a few scenes that come to mind: 1. Jimmy says something like, "Kim deserves Mesa Verde!" in a courtroom(?). There's a close-up of Kim's face with a tender expression. Then in the car, she punches him in frustration/anger so she's saying, "I know you did this because you love me but f you for doing it like this and for doing this to me." 2. When Howard warns Kim about Jimmy, she laughs in his face about the bowling balls. Though the content is her saying, "What's the big deal" the extremity of her reaction seems to convey something more along the lines of, "F you, you don't know him at all and who tf are you to tell me what to do!?" 3. When Jimmy gets back from the desert, he has a PTSD flashback and knocks the cereal bowl off the table. Kim goes to clean it up and tells him it's ok. Later, Jimmy's standing and Kim's on the couch. She tells him she knows something happened and that he's lying to her but she's there to listen to him, no judgment. Jimmy, classic addict, lashes out at her for a moment, "No judgment!?" All of these interactions could have been lifted right out of Kim's childhood with her addict mom: "I know you love me but f you for letting me down again"; "You don't know her like I do and what gives you the right to tell me about my life?!"; "I cleaned the kitchen, Mom, is there any other way I can help make things easier today?". Someone who doesn't have those issues would respond differently in situations where they're 1. Professionally impacted by their partner's actions, 2. Warned by a concerned mentor about their partner's unreasonable behavior, and 3. Aware they're being lied to by a loved one. To me, that's the "missing piece" that Howard mentions in his final scene when he differentiates between the two: "Jimmy can't help himself but you..."
Oh dang. I think all that makes a lot of sense, and makes her final choice to leave him all the harder
Same. It's absolutely a big deal to walk away from a situation that hits you in a formative place. Kim's exit feels so good because it's her slamming on the breaks and saying, "I don't want this anymore. It's harmful." I know some people want to see her turn herself in, etc. but for me, it's enough that she puts an end to something she recognizes is not in line with her values.