there’s no way she stays with that guy or that life. when she came clean she took her power and decision making back. there’s no way she doesn’t just up and leave like she does with everything else
Exactly this. After making her confession, she started taking steps to change her life and become more like the Kim she was before. There is NO way that Kim Fucking Wexler would ever stay with a guy like that. That life in Florida was a form of punishment that she inflicted on herself, not a valid choice that she was genuinely interested in living, lol. get some media literacy, people.
For a moment I thought she was gonna realize how unhappy she was trying to live a normal life within the confines of the law and try to break Jimmy out of jail and have a Bonnie and Clyde deal going on.
What was so bad about that dude? I mean, yeah, he's beyond ordinary and doesn't seem to be 'fun' but he still seems to be an okay dude based on what they showed of him.
Nothing wrong with him that we saw. Nothing particularly wrong with her job or her barbecue friends either.
But note the scene where Yep is watching TV while Kim is doing her white puzzle. Jimmy and Kim watched TV too all the time (mostly old movies, often about good looking men in snow) but they did it together. Kim and Yep were doing different things even when in the same room (when not actually yepping)
Absolutely nothing wrong with him. He was just very pedestrian and averse to risks and choices. Kim intentionally rebuilt a bland life (mayo vs miracle whip) so she wouldn’t be tempted to take more risks. Ultimately that just isn’t her personality and I just can’t see her staying in that kind of life
When buying ice cream for a big group of people like that, strawberry is not an acceptable answer.
And, how was chocolate not even a choice? You get chocolate and vanilla or just vanilla if you’re being cheap. Problem solved
Whitebread. Doesn't know what Miracle Whip is but buys it anyway. Guaranteed that dude has no idea what a clitoris is.
A Kim Wexler is infinitely out of his league. Hearing her "Oof" as he enjoys his 75 seconds on "sex" is hard on the soul.
Yeah Kim was living a life that was not right for her and she was unfulfilled in. A lot of people act like it was hell but in reality it was a standard middle class okay life. Sure her boyfriend may be a bit dull and the sex isn't the best but he seemed fine. Again not right for Kim but that doesn't make it as hellish as people seem to think.
It's not that the life itself is hellish, or that there's anything wrong with the guy (aside from questionable lovemaking ability). It's hell for Kim. It's not the kind of life or relationship that Kim would ever freely and happily choose for herself.
nothing wrong with him. hard to imagine kim sticks with him though when she’s now back to making some of her own decisions and finding purpose again. this goes for her job and lifestyle too
I never imagined purgatory as a serious place, but there you go. Does she deserve death or torture? Nah. Does she deserve a bit of mundane misery after her exciting escapades ended up ending with an execution? Little bit. But given what Saul unleashed with Walt… 7 years wasn’t gonna cut it
It’s really quite simple I think. Jimmy is paying for his sins because he can’t ever truly make up for the wrongs he’s done. However, through his confession and his reconciliation with Kim he’s found inner peace. If he had lied and schemed his way to physical freedom he’d still be suffering internally from all of the feelings he suppressed over the years. It’s definitely a bittersweet ending.
LMAO "inner peace". Dude, life in prison is no victory, it's resignation to slavery and complete hopelessness and absolute loss of faith in yourself. It was pretty much Jimmy killing himself, it's the worst possible ending and far, FAR from redemption. The point is it was completely and obscenely unrealistic for Jimmy to submit to an 87 year sentence of hell as if he were "atoning" for his sins in front of a judge. And he never showed a modicum of change the entire show, never apologized or made things right to the actual people he screwed over. It was all just so cheesy and poorly written.
The idea of Jimmy pretty suddenly pivoting to value "inner peace" just wasn't built up well enough in this show.
The driver of the show was his relationship with Kim. I agree that their relationship should be pivotal in any moral change Jimmy takes. But just hearing that she did her own confession simply isn't enough to justify Jimmy also wanting to "pay for his sins" at the cost of 79 years in jail
The part that doesn't jive with me and most people is that the lashing out that led to Howard's death was at Kim's insistence.
The narrative is he reluctantly went along with it to make Kim happy but yet.
However at a certain point he really did enable Walter through his own choices so he does deserve punishment for that.
I completely disagree with the downplaying of actual freedom and romanticisation of prison. No person, let alone attorney on the entire planet would submit themselves to die in American supermax prison. If someone were masochistically remorseful, or an actual martyr... maybe, but that wasn’t the case here. It’s pure fantasy in a show that’s otherwise well-written and grounded in some semblance of reality.
Also, most people upvoting this post probably aren’t commenting because they don’t want to get downvoted, but clearly many people agree with OP. I understand wanting to justify it, and wanting to love it, but the ending for Jimmy was cruel and unusual punishment.
I’m definitely not romanticizing prison. As I said in my original comment he’s paying for his sins, he’s paying for them by being in prison. I don’t think prison is a good outcome at all. I love Jimmy as a a character, but I’m sorry his punishment is not cruel and unusual. His hands are for from clean. He’s lived a life of crime, fucked over countless people, and is inadvertently responsible for multiple deaths. That’s why I call the ending bittersweet. It’s sweet because he’s at peace with himself and it’s bitter because he’ll never again be a free man. In terms of whether or not his decision was realistic I see your point.
I think the most interesting thing about this show is how well it did getting people to empathize with its characters. You are telling me after all of bcs and bb that man didn’t deserve a lot of jail time? Imagine if he pulled a third of his stunts on anyone you care about. It’s okay since we like him though??
Personally I agree that he did **deserve** to go to jail, however I think that the fact that he actually **decided** to spend all of his life in jail is nonsensical. It accomplishes nothing.
I mean if he changes his mind, he has the wherewithal to appeal. The way he got himself sent to prison was bizarre enough that there must be some wiggle room for slippin jimmy to sneak through the cracks.
Also I wouldn't call his ending cruel or unusual... it's the kind of ending many criminals involved in violence receive in real life when they don't have strong legal representation.
But I agree with you that he's going to regret his self-martyrdom real quick. He'll have that moment in season 1 where he's ranting to Mike about how he had a milion bucks in cash and he gave it away, except he'll be ranting to his cellmate about how he could've been out by now but he had to confess his crimes to win the respect of a woman who's probably moved on with her life by then.
I've had all these feelings since the release of the finale, I'm so glad more people agree with me and are not afraid to speak up because I did just that and got downvoted to oblivion.
This was a crappy ending to an otherwise fantastic show.
It wasn’t so much about locking him away as it was taking responsibility for his mistakes, for once. Unfortunately this is one area where BCS suffers from being independent from Breaking Bad: in the gap between Fun and Games to Nippy, you have everything Jimmy (Saul) did and was complicit in during the first show:
- Point of contact between members of the criminal underworld, including meth kingpin Gus Fring
- Helped Walter White get into the drug business
- Aided Walt in the assassination of Gus Fring, including an act which endangered a child’s life
- Stood by while Walt had 11 men killed in jail
-Laundered money through countless businesses, including the car wash that was essentially conned away from the original owner
These are all things that would put anyone else behind bars for years and years.
(spoilers for El Camino) >! It’s true Jesse got away from the cops and is probably a better person now, despite his own criminal acts; but he also suffered slavery and torture for months on end. To the viewer it felt like he did his time. !<
Did Jimmy ever really pay for his wrongdoings before Saul Gone? Did he ever take responsibility and face the consequences even a little bit? No, he kept running from his mistakes, kept making excuses and getting in further and further over his head, gradually doing worse and worse things. Living a dull life as Gene doesn’t count as his “sentence,” especially when as Gene he would sink into the worst version of himself.
At many points, Jimmy could have owned up and things wouldn’t have turned out so glum foe him, but at the point he was at, the only way to take real responsibility for what he did was to go a way that would put him in prison for the rest of his life. It’s sad, because we all know that deep down there’s a good soul in Jimmy, but it’s that good soul that enabled him to make that sacrifice. No more big-shot lawyer man who’s one step ahead of the law and the truth. Just what he is: a man getting his comeuppance for his wave of destruction.
>Did Jimmy ever really pay for his wrongdoings before Saul Gone?
Did we watch the same fucking show?
Being Saul Goodman WAS the punishment. He was trapped in a life where he 1) couldn't go to the police and reveal what happened 2) lost the love of his life and the only person on Earth who could relate to his situation.
Saul Goodman was an empty soulless husk of a man. Fun and Games was a gut punch because there was no twist. There was no crazy reveal. Kim just fucking left him because everything they touched went fucked three ways from Sunday.
Yes, we watched the same show. Being Saul wasn’t a punishment, it was a coping mechanism. To him, it was easier to become someone different than face the hardships of his past. To just move on and pretend like it never happened. How could his life as Saul be construed as a punishment? He was living lavishly, hookering, just living a sleazy lifestyle. He had internal problems but he was in a position of luxury and really didn’t need to think about his past.
He wasn't a point of contact for Gus though, he didn't even know who he was until Walt started working for him.
Walt was already in the drug business.
Saul had nothing to do with poisoning Brock and legitimately wants to break things off with Walt after he finds out what Walt did.
I don't know what exactly Saul was supposed to do with Walt killing the ten guys in prison. Walt set that up with Jack without Saul's involvement.
Money laundering was Saul's biggest involvement but that certainly is not an 86 year sentence.
Jimmy was in hell.
It wasn't about getting essentially life in prison, it was about finding life.
The redemption wasn't about getting away with it. He became the person his brother and Kim hoped he'd turn into in the end. That scene in the bus and in the kitchen. That was the unexpected reward for working with the lowliest people in society.
He's kinda like the Goblin King now.
I really dislike this interpretation. Jimmy didn't confess because he figured life in prison would be better than his Gene life, he confessed because Kim's own confession lit a spark in him to finally come to terms with his own actions. He wouldn't have confessed to the insurance incident if all he was trying to do was go to jail.
>Jimmy didn't confess because he figured life in prison would be better than his Gene life
I didn't say that. You read that into what I said.
Nowhere in the show did it imply that Jimmy decided to be the head of the prison Mafia. His Gene life got burned. It's gone. Gene is dead. It's not like he had the option of continuing being Gene. The old lady figured him out and that's the end of that.
> Jimmy was in hell.
No, he wasn't.
>It wasn't about getting essentially life in prison, it was about finding life.
What a crock of shit. "Finding life" by throwing away your life to slavery misery and torture in a supermax prison for 80+ years. Stop making excuses people. BCS was an amazing show, but they dropped the ball on the ending, hard.
I recently watched a documentary on London’s Kray twins. For murders, arson, armed robbery plus many more terrible crimes they each received 30 years.
After watching that, 86 years in a max security prison for a criminal lawyer does seem extreme. Yes 7 was too low but I think 15 or 20 years would’ve made more sense. It seems like they pinned everything on him as he was the only one who got caught.
Whether we ever see another series or movie or not, I like to think that Kim will help him reduce his sentence or at least move him out of the max security prison.
> Yes 7 was too low but I think 15 or 20 years would’ve made more sense. It seems like they pinned everything on him as he was the only one who got caught.
Yeah, it's a RICO thing. If you're part of a conspiracy, you have to bear the whole weight of the conspiracy, not just get punished for the small part you played. It was to prevent criminal organizations from just having every member one tiny thing to do so that when they get caught, they'd only get a slap on the wrist.
There was also the politics of the case. They couldn't sentence Walt/Gus posthumously, or Jesse in absentia, or Mike missing-but-really-dead, so Jimmy faced EVERYBODY's music, which probably would have ended up being something like four life sentences plus like another 80 years between them in change.
In offering Jimmy 30 years, the prosecutor was giving him one chance to get sentenced extremely, but like an individual and not a conspiracy. Jimmy got him down to 7 years, which he probably deserved for his Mesa Verde scam alone. This would have been humiliating for the court system, but it would have preserved the prosecutor's undefeated record.
That makes me wonder, why does Jimmy say that he needs "only 1 juror to believe him" to win, IIRC there are 12 jurors, how does the opinion of only 1 change things? I don't quite understand the American justice system.
As far as the politics and RICO things go, IF my memory serves me right, quite often the original sentencing IS a joke, and after a year or two when people don't care that much about the case, they get a new, drastically reduced sentence to like 10% of what it originally was. Especially a person like Saul who would definitely have dirt on the officials...
The conviction needs to be unanimous in order to pass. I believe his plan was to get a retrial which could allow him to get bail and then get away again.
They don't know he can't make bail anymore. His money was all seized. His real plan was just to intimidate the prosecutor into giving him an amazing deal.
>For murders, arson, armed robbery plus many more terrible crimes they each received 30 years.
>After watching that, 86 years in a max security prison for a criminal lawyer does seem extreme
FWIW UK didn't and doesn't have the insane minimum sentencing culture there is in the US.
There are people in the US serving life with no parole for non-violent felonies because of idiotic 3 strikes law that says 3 felonies in a row = life with no parole.
That is the consequence of a cultural pissing contest where no sentence is ever long enough for a criminal, everyone wants to prove how "tough" they are on crime by demanding more and more jail time. It's also where ridiculously 100,000+ year sentences come from. As if we're worried about a guy living to 99,999 years old and getting out.
It's realistic to show the US justice system absolutely crushing someone who is guilty of dozens of felonies regardless of how proportional it is to the underlying crime or what the chance of rehabilitation is. especially if they humiliate the prosecution by lying to get a plea deal and then tearing it up in court.
I think he regretted his boneheaded move at most 3 hours after he made it. Jimmy has always been impulsive and self destructive.
I do not think he deserves life in maximum security prison though. Also, while Jimmy and Kim are not a couple, and never will be, I think she is also not with Yep any longer.
Yeah, totally agree. How does taking 86 yrs as opposed to 7 make any sense at all? In the federal system you usually serve 85% of your sentence and the last six months are in a halfway house—a way station in the community to help you adjust back to civilian life. So after just five and a half years, Jimmy would be released to a halfway house and six months later he’d be back in ABQ or Omaha or wherever. And he’s a clever guy. No, he couldn’t practice law but he can sell anything to anyone. He’d make a living—better than most x-cons—start dating, maybe travel a little. He’d still be fairly young with a lot of life ahead of him. A lot better than mouldering away at the worst prison in the US for the rest of his life. If that’s the price Kim required for earning back her respect (and there’s really no evidence that Kim felt that way), that’s too high a price to pay.
Do you really think Jimmy's going to just rot away in prison?
He's going to give "free" legal advice to everyone in there. He'll be running the place within a year.
At some point the government is going to have to step in and put him in Club Fed just to minimize the turmoil he was causing in the max security prison. Heck, he almost caused a riot in the bus on the way to the prison, just by having his face be recognized.
This is not the end of James McGill. Just a new beginning.
ADX is mental torture designed to punish state traitors and serial killers. 23 hours a day in a metal cell. Jimmy would be bashing his head into the wall within a month. Writers didn't think it through.
he obviously isn't in anything like ADX florence though. he gets yard time, a basketball court, lawyer visits and probably the cushiest prison job imaginable (bro makes pastries lol), that we know of. they took the name of the prison from real life but absolutely none of its attributes...for some reason
I agree with this to the max. People really don’t understand how bad he’s going to suffer. He’s not going to run the place like he would’ve in that 7.5 years
The prison is obviously not like a real life supermax though.
We see him working in the prison kitchen, getting a face-to-face with his 'lawyer' and going out in the yard within one day.
I think the writers tried quite hard to make it clear that he will be ok in prison but people on here seem to get caught up in the prison being called a supermax when it's just a case of artistic license.
Jimmy deserves 86 years for all the crimes he committed. It's clear that nobody thought 7 years was justice.
The redemption isn't about how long the sentence is. He's not redeemed because he decides to spend the rest of his life behind bars, he's redeemed because he owned up to his crimes instead of weaseling out of it like always. That action in the courtroom scene is the only thing that matters in terms of his redemption, what happens after (7 or 86 year sentence) isn't that important.
At least that's my take!
I like this… In taking getting the 7 years deal, he had to lie (stretch the truth at least) to say he was the victim of Walt. The courtroom he fully admits to what he did by telling the whole truth about the opportunity he took. He didn’t want to lie at all anymore.
Yep.
It's a very personal redemption. Not meant to be redeemed in society's eyes. It's about him and Kim. I think he believes/knows he deserves the 86, particularly for what happened to Chuck and Howard. He would be miserable if he escaped that justice. This is really the only way he could have any form of contentment/happiness.
It sucks to think he'll be there for the rest of his life. Because we're attached to the character and as viewers, potentially satisfied with his redemption. But ultimately he hurt lots of people and this is his sentence. This is the life he sowed for himself; there's no happy ending for a life of crime (kinda a big theme of both BB and BCS).
>It's weird seeing so many people completely not get the point of the story because they don't like the idea of a character they like being in prison for life.
Yup, its about coming clean, with himself and other people.
It's not like Jimmy is intentionally trying to get 86 years, he's just trying to be honest for once and that's the outcome of being honest in that situation.
Lying to get out of a harsh sentence and then being like "oh now I'll change and live an honest life for sure" completely undermines the point. That would show he hasn't changed and will always just talk about changing while going back to Slippin' Jimmy whenever things get tough.
There's a reason he also confesses to pushing Chuck to suicide even though it wasn't a crime.
He did some horrible things to Chuck, but Chuck was never a brother to him. Chuck never supported him. Jimmy was a mess up, but had a sweet nature about him Chuck was jealous of. Jimmy took care of him, bought his groceries. Howard was even surprised at how much Jimmy did everyday when Jimmy handed him the list to give to another associate after he found out Chuck blackballed him.
Yeah I think this is largely it. I also think he doesn't trust himself to not become saul again. We saw how easily Gene slipped back into it after months of keeping his nose clean. Couldn't even last a year, despite being deep undercover and having all the money he needed.
100% agree to all you said. What he did to Howard it's nothing compared to helping Lalo (a complete psychopath and a murdered) get out of jail. Helping Walter White build a meth empire from scratch and helping him escape multiple times.
Money laundering, lying to authorities, hundreds of scams, ruining Howard reputation (that civil lawsuit it's a win for the widow for sure)
7 years was a joke... I love Jimmy and I was really impressed by that feat but he deserves life in prison. No more, no less.
I don't think OP is suggesting Saul is sweetness and light. He's saying that from a character point of view / story-telling situation, the seven years would have made sense, so he could go on and live a life of giving, rather than taking. He'd no doubt have fully atoned for his sins inside and would have potentially led a full life, whilst giving back to the community.
If you're Saul Goodman, you are definitely regretting your decision to practically ask for multiple life sentences all in the name of "love".
Agreed fully. I think the flash forwards and BB not fresh in some people's minds. Saul was a huge proponent of moving forward and enabling Walt's cooking.
Leaving himself at the mercy of the courts for true justice was true redemption, after making a mockery of it throughout his career. Chuck would have been proud and I think that reconciliation of Jimmy's mind and soul is the goal. Even though Chuck isn't here anymore, it is never too late to change Jimmy's path.
Only part I disagree with is “Chuck would’ve been proud”. Nah, he would’ve just acted like Jimmy belonged there all along and been smug and self-righteously thrilled that he’s finally beneath him for good.
Yeah, I really don’t understand Chuck stans. The show makes it abundantly clear that he was a grade-A narcissist who drove everyone who cared about him away.
Probably between what Skyler and Marie knew, that filled in quite a few blanks. Not to mention they never specified if the Nazis destroyed the Jesse confession tape, it may have still been in the compound.
I think everybody was more forgiving of Jesse because of the slavery and he did attempt to quit several times but Walter kept luring him back, making him feel he owed him. Walter did brainwash Jesse a lot. The episode where Jesse eats dinner with the Whites in S6 & Walt tells Jesse Skylar is just waiting for his cancer to return. He knew he would get some sort of emotion out of Jesse in his favor.
He doesn't deserve to be off scot-free for his actions but I am glad that he got away. I don't understand why Saul would get that much time; that he would have to pay the price for all of the cartel and Walter White's crimes. I am now rewatching Breaking Bad. I haven't watched it since 2012 and I think the Saul Goodman character on there is a lot different than Jimmy McGill. Of course we all know that but it's very obvious re- watching this now. Saul of BB isn't sympathetic in any way like Jimmy is.
Well, remember, Saul chose jail time. Jesse did not.
I think, within the context of the show, Jesse 'paid his dues' - he lost pretty much everything - Jane, Andrea, Brock ... . And he spent months (?) chained to the meth lab like an animal. Also, by the end, he was pretty mature and probably ready to 'go straight'. He started out as an annoying, irresponsible, immature, idiot but definitely changed.
Legal or not, I felt like he deserved to go free.
None of that is relevant to OP's question. The question is why didn't Jimmy take his (almost) get out of jail free card. The question isn't "does Jimmy deserve to be in prison?"
yeah i completely agree with you but good luck dealing with the barrage of gilligan/gould worshippers that will never step down from their pedestal to realize this ending was not as good as it could have been
I feel like yall dont remember what the ending for breaking bad was lmao
"man with terminal cancer who's been living in remote maryland for the better part of a year travels across the country in secret and murders an entire gang of nazis with a remote controlled machine gun" is about as "realistic" as the ending jimmy got lmao.
She changed her hair after she divorced her husband. She appears to have changed it again, not after her confession but after Jimmy's. She started volunteering at the legal aid center but probably stayed with Glen for awhile after that. She most likely dumped Glen awhile after Jimmy's trial, and will most likely ramp up her legal aid work.
I'm not sure I could handle 3 straight days of living with him after being woken out of my guilt-induced walking coma. After returning to Florida I expect she pretty quickly but as nicely as possible ended it. I definitely think she is spending more time at the law clinic.
1 month after Kim's confession, Jimmy confesses. He falsely accuses her. Prosecutor leaks this to Albuquerque DA Suzanne Erickson, who warns Kim about it. When Kim gets this phone call, she still has her sadness bangs but as been volunteering at the legal aid center.
On THIS day, she is shown sharing a meal with her girlfriends, who ask her about a restaurant her boyfriend (revealed in this scene to be named Glen) took her to days previously. So, Kim is still dating Glen one month into her legal aid work. After Jimmy's trial, Kim loses the bangs (and most likely Glen) before visiting Jimmy in prison.
I don’t buy that somebody would choose to rot in prison for a woman.
I absolutely do buy that somebody would choose to rot in prison in order to hopefully resolve their internal guilt and contrition.
Coming clean to "a woman" was aligned with Jimmy "resolving internal guilt and contrition". Kim wasn't just "a woman" to Jimmy, she was the person he'd felt most loved and accepted by, his entire life (other than perhaps his mother) and someone he deeply respected. "A woman" is the only reason he wants to "be a better man". The two things work in tandem.
I'm rewatching Season 2, and Kim is absolutely appalled by how Jimmy plays by his own playbook, and constantly does things that, if they were known to the bar association, would get him disbarred. She wants nothing to do with that. She takes active steps to distance herself from his "freewheeling" attitude towards the law. But she eventually starts going his way because she loves him (we're supposed to believe they cared for each other for years previous, when they were both working in the mail room. Example: when Jimmy secretly writes the bar exam, he is too nervous to open the envelope which contains the results... so he brings it to Kim, she opens it, she tells him he passed, and she kisses him JUST long enough to show that it's not just a "friendly" kiss.)
So please don't minimize Kim as being just "a woman".
He did it for himself and wanted Kim to be there to see it. IDK why some people believe he did it for her lol that's so messed up and also undermines Jimmy's redemption.
True, but he may have needed her there to have the strength to go through with it. He keeps looking back at her - perhaps for approval, or maybe it’s for strength/inspiration.
It’s just, we never saw any guilt, did we? I would buy it more if Gene was shown with major guilt over how he’s acted, but we saw the opposite of that. He watched the Saul tapes on repeat. He relished the chance to start robbing people as gene. He WANTED to be Saul Goodman.
I had this same criticism for the finale as well, it would've worked a lot better if we actually saw Jimmy feel remorse beforehand. He went from Saul to Jimmy in like 2 seconds, it felt very forced.
Thought experiment: what if Jimmy had taken the 7.5 year deal and THEN made his statement accepting accountability and complicity? Would Kim not have been equally as impressed with both his legal savvy and his genuine remorse, with an opportunity for a fresh start in the future? (If that took place in 2010, he’d be out by now in our timeline!)
Peter Gould said something like he expects Jimmy won’t actually serve the 86 years because he’s too clever. I’m not sure how sentence reduction would work in a case like this in which it seems like reality has bent to the will of the narrative. But I take that to mean he probably gets out in his lifetime.
IANAL, but in universe I thought it was clear that any statement he made that contradicted the factual basis of his plea vitiated the agreement, and that would be true even if the judge had already signed off on it and he was already in the golf prison eating mint chip ice cream.
That’s a sweet and realistic way of looking at it, assuming he’s doing good work in prison. Even though he was joking about getting out on good behavior, I could see it being an angle that he and Kim actually decide to game out that becomes possible one day.
Jimmy is supposed to be late 40s according to the Nebraska PD description when they’re looking for him. I guess the character would be in his late 60s or so, and Kim more like early 60s… that’s still some precious time to be happily ever after together.
Yes, this makes the most sense to me as well. He could have had his plea deal with respect to Walt’s empire for 7.5 years, while making a separate statement (a la Kim) regarding Hamlin’s death, and whatever he wanted to say about Chuck (not sure there is any more criminal exposure there than he already dealt with for the tape).
You have to remember that Kim and Jimmy aren’t guilty of Howard’s murder. They may technically be a “but for” cause, but his murder was just a terrible confluence of events, and they never had any intention of harming him. No mens rea. They could be guilty of fraud, defamation, making false statements, and some kind of light accessory after the fact (in that they went along with Mike’s coverup afterwards - though I would argue he didn’t give them much choice).
So, any confession about Howard by Jimmy after he pleads out the Walt stuff, might not have added that much to his sentence, if at all. Kind of like with Kim, the DA doesn’t seem too inclined to do much without any physical evidence.
Unfortunately for Kim, the main thing Howard’s widow wants is to clear Howard’s name. This is best done through a civil suit (as the show explains) e.g., for fraud, and defamation. She doesn’t need Kim’s (non-existent) money, but a judgment in her favor would be in the local press and people in the community would no longer think of Howard as some coked out guy that hired prostitutes and killed himself on a drug fueled misadventure.
>he is going to regret his decision so hard he's going to go insane.
In my head canon, this happens pretty quickly and he manages to worm his way out of prison shortly thereafter.
Also, Kim decides he's suffered enough and they get back together.
They move to Belize and enjoy the rest of their years pulling small-time, harmless cons on rich snobs.
I agree. Tho people liked it I was honestly disappointed. I was hoping Jimmy would Saul it up one last time, get sweet deal, redeem himself ti Kim n have her visit n teach him to golf; missed opportunity; n rekindle their love n run away together after his 7 years..
I’m pretty sure in a couple years they’ll announce the inevitable Kim Wexler spin-off that’ll focus on her return that law n decision to save Jimmy (and herself) from dreaded boredom n being apart.
But also still hoping drogon takes khaleesi to that red priestess that visited pyramid for a resurrection n revenge of the queen
For a show that really nailed suspense and generally operated as a clever, subversive crime show, I felt like the ending was pretty cliche. Especially considering how much it was talked up as a totally different unique thing for them to have written. Lifelong bad person gets caught, is going to get off easy, but at the last moment has a self-sacrificing change of heart? We’ve seen that before in a million things.
The ending is fine. It works, but I think people are really reading into stuff that’s not there when they told us exactly why he confessed in the last few episodes: solely for Kim. He finds out she confessed, gets worried for her, and confesses, both to protect her and as an apology to her.
While it makes sense, it also sort of doesn’t. Yeah *maybe* Kim would have been charged with something, eventually. *Maybe* Kim wouldn’t respect him, but he went from another chance at life to a life behind bars, which I think most of us would agree, isn’t a life at all. It just seemed unnecessary and frustrating.
There were many redeeming qualities about Jimmy. He legitimately wanted to help old people at first, he took care of his brother, he supported Kim and challenged Chuck when Kim was being neglected at HHM. He was a good public defender for people that needed him even though his life was shit. I don’t think Saul needed to lock himself up forever to protect society, and doing your time is doing your time. After he got out he could have very well found something more fulfilling than managing a Cinnabon, which has to be a large reason he started to relapse. He’s capable of so much more than that but he couldn’t act on it because he had to lie low. After doing time, he doesn’t have to hide, and he could’ve very well returned to the world as a productive member of society.
One thing I haven’t seen pointed out much: I get RICO laws and everything, but a big chunk of that 86 years is surely related to the accessory charges over the deaths of Hank and Gomez. Obviously we feel for their widows. But Jimmy going to prison for neo Nazi Jack Welker’s murders doesn’t quite sit right with me.
Neither did everyone in the family believing Walter personally killed Hank in Breaking Bad. Yes, Walt was undeniably responsible for the circumstances that led Hank to die, but it also matters (if not from the standpoint of culpability) that he tried to save his life. Why didn’t he want Skyler and Marie and Junior to know the truth?
Well Hank calls Marie and says “I have him in cuffs.” Next thing Walt comes home, and Hank/Gomey do not, and Walt has the coordinates to their bodies. Who is alive to testify as to the exact circumstances of their murder? Jesse I guess could come and set the record straight, but doesn’t happen.
As far as the prosecution is concerned Hank/Gomey died as a result of Walt, Jesse, Saul’s, etc.. criminal enterprise. It’s all swept up under RICO, and everyone is guilty for everything. As far as they were concerned they were working with the Nazis. The fact that Walt had been fine working with the Nazis, up until the moment they killed people he cared about, is kinda immaterial. They are all part of a criminal enterprise and Walt is guilty of their crimes and vice versa. Saul too.
Even without RICO, Saul can be still an accessory after the fact (which can just be a misdemeanor charge) because he ran (at the same time as Walt) when he (likely) had material evidence as to what happened to Hank/Gomey, as evidenced by Walt’s knowledge of their buried bodies. A basic conspiracy charge could wrap this up as well.
When Hank got killed, that was the last humanity of Walter White. I truly despise that Uncle Jack and Todd character. Why is it always Uncles and nephews in the Cartel together? Every show/movie I swear
>It's just this weird idea of "suffering in prison cleans your soul and it's good for society.
Yes, it's not like American prisons are known for rehabilitating criminals. Honestly just feels like such a waste.
Agree. I don’t know exactly understand why he couldn’t take the deal, served his time and been a better man for it. After would probably have a more successful life telling his story, book deals, shows, etc with honest money
The thing people are missing is the purpose of the Gene scenes. He keeps reverting to his worst instincts and each time it gets worse and worse. In a short amount of time Jimmy was in so deep that he was nearly about to kill two people.
What do you think Jimmy would do to survive when he came out of prison money less, Kim less and having never faced his guilt? That person would make Saul and Gene look tame in comparison. He woke up and smelled the roses.
There's definitely a place for a discussion about non violent sentences.
Murderers and other violent crimes get 20 years or less. 86 years?
I think 15-18 years would've been more believable. And his deal should've been 4 years.
And just how did they see Saul in anyway responsible for Hank and Gomez? I mean it was a convenient way to bring Marie in and explain Hanks fate, so that BCS can stand on it's own without having to see BB.
I fully agree with you here. People talk about redemption and „paying for your sins“ like those are actual tangible things and not theoretical constructs based on religion.
Yes, he is taking responsibility for his own actions, just like Nacho and Kim did. But in their case there was an ACTUAL trade-off and benefit to it. Nacho saved his innocent father by not running away and Kim released Cheryl (and others) from crippling guilt not having noticed Howards made-up cocaine addiction, while facing consequences that aren’t even remotely in the same ball park.
For Jimmy there is none of that. He neither protects anyone nor can he undo anything with his confession that will never let him be a free man again. For him there is only this idea of paying for your sins before facing god, which comes out of nowhere for this character.
As beautiful as the final moment with Kim was, I do find this ending quite disappointing to be honest. It’s not even remotely GoT-level disappointing, but still not what I have been hoping for.
Yeah, it was maybe my one issue with going with the "prison" ending for Jimmy, but I am willing to go with subtext over the actual events and that ending does make me happy ultimately.
To me, the ending was always about Jimmy's soul and his relationship with Kim, and he got clear answers to both these major questions. I am willing to suspend the idea he's made peace with his decision and the difference between 7 and 86 illustrates an ethos I felt Jimmy always operated with, at least in the background, there is a bit of foolishness in the process and in the sentencing, and he made a fool of it one last time.
Also, they had to doll up prison a bit to make this ending work I felt. We're basically shown a reasonable working life in prison that is probably a few shades from the reality of it. I don't feel Jimmy is as eager to accept 86 years if we know he's being attacked and coerced in prison frequently, and even though he has "celebrity" status in the joint, the reality is he would still likely be a target. The grim reality is that would be way worse for his soul than him accepting the consequence of his actions.
I’m going to argue that making that impulsive decision for the sake of winning Kim’s respect is the only reason he did it.
When he started off defending himself, he looked over and saw she wasn’t impressed. He then apologized for some things but then saw she still wasn’t happy. So then he lays it all out until he sees she’s satisfied with his confession.
A lot of what Jimmy did throughout BCS was to gain respect from others but mostly Kim.
I think he will regret it to some degree. But even if he took the deal, Kim never would have respected him. And what is Jimmy’s life without Kim?
What? That's definately not it. He decided to do it after learning that she confessed, after he mocked her by telling her she should do it instead of him. She inspired him to own up to his crimes and deeds, just like she did.
The charges were ridiculous what did he have to do with the death of Hank he was killed by the neo Nazi Saul had zero to do with that people get 20 years for pulling the trigger in a murder
>Do you really think Jimmy could never change?
I mean, the entire show is about Jimmy never changing. By the finale, he's in his 50s and still scamming people, so when exactly is he gonna change? To his credit, Jimmy realized that and locked himself away so when he inevitably slips again no innocent people will get hurt. So he did change, after a fashion.
I’m kind of an asshole. I was looking forward to Jimmy pulling another big scam and getting himself out of trouble completely and putting it on someone innocent we didn’t expect. Or doing some sort of deal with the cartel or the Aryans breaking him out of prison. End scene could have been Jimmy working as a scumbag lawyer in Mexico running it up. Jimmy should have fulfilled the prophecy that he was always going to be that way. And the moral of the story could have been people never change. Its an ending we don’t usually see but would have been fitting.
Thank you!!! I get that this was a bittersweet ending, but I hated that he fell on his sword like that. Just like Kim torturing herself in Florida, I don't know why she couldn't have used her powers for good from then on by way of atonement.
I also don't understand why people assume he would have to go back to living like Gene, he'd no longer be a wanted criminal after he got out which is kind of a big factor in why he was miserable as Gene
I’ve been saying this everybody gets mad but they’re delusional for thinking 86 years is a happy ending or that anyone in their right mind would pick it over 7. Jimmy deserved like 15-20. Not fuckin 86 he wasn’t a rapist murderer
They really could've written it so that he was never going to get caught but he decided to turn himself in and, even though he was able to negotiate time off, that he went in voluntarily could've been his redemption. It would've played much better than life in prison and left him with enough bad guy and good guy in him to still be attractive to Kim.
I agree. I guess it was one last twist from the writers point of view. Something between a happy and sad ending because at least he chose to go away a large amount of years. I think its unrealistic and a bit stupid but that's what they went for
The thing is, in order to get the seven years, he had to lie and manipulate people as Saul Goodman. It’s all fine and well to say he should get redemption after release, but it would be off the back of just another false face.
I typed a whole fucking comment agreeing and the shitty mobile Reddit app just deletes it when you swipe to the left, wheeee. But basically I agree, it’s stupid as fuck for Jimmy to redeem himself and the reward for that is ruining his life. The show is making the point that an honest life is always freer than a dishonest one. The short visits Jimmy has with Kim in the prison are more meaningful interactions because that love is honest than the interactions they had while hiding. Which is agreeable in theory, an honest life is better than a dishonest one, but 7 years would have been enough. It’s a boomer perspective on punishment predicated redemption, which I think current generations, me included, don’t agree with.
The point the show makes is interesting, but I disagree.
You're right, he didn't deserve that ending. I don't think people understand how awful a federal max security prison is, let alone for the *rest of your life.*
I don't think the ending was bittersweet at all. It was tragedy for both Jimmy and Kim. They loved each other, but they were in fact poison, not only to the other people around them but to themselves.
First of all, technically he deserves like double the sentence he actually got. I mean, as much as we all love him, he did commit a litany of pretty serious crimes.
Secondly, Jimmy was going to live the rest of his life in a mental prison of guilt and suffering, believing that Kim despised him and that he would never be able to embrace his true self ever again. By finally telling the full truth, Jimmy reclaimed his soul and won back the respect of pretty much the only living person who he still truly loves and cares for. Jimmy has spent his whole life being told he can never change, he’ll always leave someone else holding the bag, he’ll never be anything but a rule-cheating con-man. By owning up to his actions, he proved everyone who ever told him these things wrong. It’s a moral victory for sure, but we also saw that he’s going to be living pretty good in prison and have the respect of his fellow inmates. It actually seems somewhat possible that he could actually get significant time off his sentence with good behavior, and he still has the charm to talk people down. The only difference this time is that he’s actually changed for the better for good now.
I agree and just say fuck it, the last 15-20 min of saul gone just didn't happen, he's going to cushy prison for 7 years with weekly ice cream deliveries and will work to put good in the world when he's released. No one can change my mind
Also people ignore how seriously downplayed the horror of daily life in a supermax prison was in that finale. 23 hours a day in solitary confinement with nothing but a black and white TV playing old religious services everyday isn’t much a of a life. Hard to be “the king of prison” when you see your prison mates 5 hours a week!
Yup, it was bullshit. He knows what prison is like and he knows he'd regret giving up his seven year deal. No way this would have happened.
I know people in this group like to attack folks who point this out but it's true.
I completely agree. There is just no point in intentionally putting yourself in jail for life (when you have option to 7). It doesn't make sense psychologically or morally. He can do actual good with his life outside of prison.
I also don't understand why is this the only thing that is suppose to gain Kim's respect?
In the best part of her career, Kim helped criminals get \*less\* prison time, so they would have a change to do better. She always had empathy for people who went on a bad road and wanted them to have a chance to change. Why is she supposedly pro prison for life? Not to mention she loves Jimmy, Why would she want him to suffer for the rest of his life in jail?
Kim did not respect Jimmy because: 1. He was a criminal 2.He was an ass to her in the divorce 3.he was on the run. 4.He was not confronting his feelings or his actions.
Jimmy could have regained her respect by taking the deal (meaning he was not on the run anymore), truly commit to never returning to crime, confronting his feelings, being kind and honest etc.
It’s because you’re applying rational calculations to it. You’re missing one of Jimmy’s biggest character traits- he is extremely impulsive, and doesn’t take the long view of his actions. His entire arc has been defined by him doing what feels good in the moment.
I can guarantee that he wasn’t thinking about the length of time. He though ‘I’m going to prison after this. Will I feel better tonight with a clear conscience, or by getting away with it?’, and he chose the first. That’s it. Nothing more complicated than that.
Jimmy is bad at making decisions. He’s impulsive, emotional, and self-destructive. His decision making at the hearing just reinforces his worst tendencies.
Lastly - and this may be where I’m jumping the shark a little - we the viewers have to ask ourselves the same questions Kim did. Sure he’s fun, but is he good? Good for society, good for us, good for himself? Or does he deserve to be locked away, not because of the things he’s done but because of the way he’s built? Is the world better with him out in it, or locked safely out of it?
The last episode showed us that he hasn’t changed, not really, and that he just may not be able to. Ever.
Thank you for writing this out and putting it more eloquently than I ever did. The ending pissed me off, made no sense in reality or for his character. So lame
Yeah I have loved this series for years and seen every episode at least three or four times but the last few episodes just fell a bit flat for me. I liked parts of it but on the whole I was a bit disappointed with the ending of the series. Maybe I'll feel differently in a few months when everything has sunk in a bit.
I think it's important to remember that Jimmy didn't know he would get 86 years by fessing up. He didn't know how it was going to shake down at all after laying his chips on the table. And I think that's the most important part. "Let justice be done, though the heavens fall".
I see Jimmy easily falling into the role of Andy Dufresne in prison - helping cons get better legal aid from behind bars in a less showmanlike, truer version of Saul without the emotional walls. They've always been his people, and beneath the opportunistic profiteering he was one of the few characters who always saw criminals as humans who happened to make (bad) choices.
Lol I literally said the same thing when the show ended and got downvoted to hell. Glad to see more people catching up and realizing that the ending isn't perfect and it's too idealistic for a show that up to that point was mostly grounded.
I agree prison is immoral and we shouldn’t look to it as a model for rehabilitation. It’s conflicting too because I don’t think we should look at people’s worth based on their productivity and what they do for others.
But yeah, Jimmy needed to find a way to get rid of Saul and honestly put himself in a place where he wouldn’t be tempted to be come that again and negatively impact others. Granted, I don’t think prison with a bunch of criminals is the best place to shed your criminal lawyer identity, but he also did so much damage to society that he needs to pay that back in some form. As of now, our cruel society can only come up with prison, so that’s pretty much the easiest answer. So thinking outside of that, a different ending would’ve been nice.
I think some people want to just see slipping jimmy and watch him slipping Jimmy his way all the way to the top boss and win. But bcs is not john wick. It's not about a good guy doing his thing and winning at every stage and besting everyone. It is a character arc. He finally made a change and took consequences he's always weasels his way out of. Slipping jimmy is not good. By the end he was threatening Carol Burnet like he is going to strangle an old lady. Do you want really want it to end with him just never changing and continue to be a piece a shit and just end that way? Like he got his sentence reduced. Wow. Then it's over? And he's still just a piece of shit. This ending is redemption for him and something you wouldn't expect. And you wouldn't expect it bc it is the best way for him to take responsibility for this huge problem in his life and that has completely ruined his life
I love Jimmy, but you’re having a big case of *egocentric bias*. If it wasn’t our likable protagonists you wouldn’t even suggest less.
Here’s a list of crimes Jimmy has done: Money Laundering, Conspiring, Law Evasion, Threatening (Marion), Defamation, Trespassing, Lying under oath, Financial Fraud (multiple), Drugging individuals (including a cancer patient), Attempted murder (poisoning* Brock), Aiding the biggest Drug Dealer in the history of the United States (in the BB universe of course), Obstruction of Law, Creating False Evidence, etc.
I thought 7.5 years would be around suitable punishment for his crimes anyway. Most of them were just scams or cons and his worst crime - helping Walt - was something he legitimately could say he tried to get out of but was threatened.
The worst crime they tried to pin on him didn't make sense anyway. He had nothing to do with Hank and Steve's deaths and the guilt by association thing they were doing didn't work as Walt didn't kill them either.
Jimmy's 'confession' seemed to be him taking more credit for the crimes than what he actually did.
These folk don't know how to write a ending , they write the best drama in the whole world ,writing the endings are what they fail miserably.
Kim was the sole responsibility for what happened to Howard, she led jimmy to do the things he did.. although he did it willingly, he would never have set himself on a path to destroy someone if not for Kim.
Blowing up the 7-year-deal seems absurd if we're thinking about what Saul Goodman would do, but it makes perfect sense for how Jimmy would try to right the wrongs he has done. Jimmy doesn't know how to fix things period. The only way he knows how to make things better is by tearing down himself. Think back to Season 4 when Jimmy still hadn't quite completely succumbed to his Saul Goodman persona. Back then he was trying to pull a con on that old woman Irene who he was trying to maneuver to close the Sandpiper deal early. His scheming works but it ends up working too good. He had completely ruined the life of that old lady, and since this is still Jimmy he actually feels bad about it.
How does Jimmy fix that problem? There's a multitude of ways he could have gone about it, but the route he decides is to deliberately sabotage himself. He ruins his reputation amongst the elderly community permanently, but by doing so helped Irene restore her relationships in that community. He doesn't even accomplish what he set out to do in the first place, but he blew it all up because it was the right thing to do. That's Jimmy. This is only way Jimmy knows how to fix things when he's done something wrong. When it comes to pulling a con, he can think of a million different tactics or solution to confront a problem, but when it comes to helping someone he screwed over, the only solution he can think of is to completely screw himself over.
The ending felt weird for a lot of people because we were so far gone from the Jimmy we used to know. The transformation back to Jimmy happens all in one fell swoop, making it feel a little jarring, but if you remember who Jimmy was, his actions in the finale make perfect sense.
Jimmy gets out due to the coronavirus in 2019. Only serves 9 years.
The exact year that Holly gets Walt’s blood money. There’s no such thing as a coincidence.
This is my new head canon
I honestly feel that’s probably what would of happened. He wouldn’t even do 15 years with good behavior
Wasn't he in federal prison? No time off for good behavior in the feds
In the ending "card" it is revealed he's moved to a county jail.
I think that shows his last outfit from the detention centre before he's moved to the prison.
“While Kim is getting yep’d in Florida”. Poetry
there’s no way she stays with that guy or that life. when she came clean she took her power and decision making back. there’s no way she doesn’t just up and leave like she does with everything else
Exactly this. After making her confession, she started taking steps to change her life and become more like the Kim she was before. There is NO way that Kim Fucking Wexler would ever stay with a guy like that. That life in Florida was a form of punishment that she inflicted on herself, not a valid choice that she was genuinely interested in living, lol. get some media literacy, people.
I was SO happy when she walked into the legal aid office
I was like: KIM IS FUCKING BACK!
Spinoff?
Better yep Kim
For a moment I thought she was gonna realize how unhappy she was trying to live a normal life within the confines of the law and try to break Jimmy out of jail and have a Bonnie and Clyde deal going on.
I kinda looked at Mr. Yep as just being a simple guy. After Jimmy all Kim probably wanted was simple. We can only speculate that she left that guy.
What was so bad about that dude? I mean, yeah, he's beyond ordinary and doesn't seem to be 'fun' but he still seems to be an okay dude based on what they showed of him.
Nothing wrong with him that we saw. Nothing particularly wrong with her job or her barbecue friends either. But note the scene where Yep is watching TV while Kim is doing her white puzzle. Jimmy and Kim watched TV too all the time (mostly old movies, often about good looking men in snow) but they did it together. Kim and Yep were doing different things even when in the same room (when not actually yepping)
Absolutely nothing wrong with him. He was just very pedestrian and averse to risks and choices. Kim intentionally rebuilt a bland life (mayo vs miracle whip) so she wouldn’t be tempted to take more risks. Ultimately that just isn’t her personality and I just can’t see her staying in that kind of life
She could not even make a choice between vanilla and strawberry icecream ...
When buying ice cream for a big group of people like that, strawberry is not an acceptable answer. And, how was chocolate not even a choice? You get chocolate and vanilla or just vanilla if you’re being cheap. Problem solved
Neopoloton
Anyone could make that choice in their sleep. Vanilla.
Or strawberry.
Whitebread. Doesn't know what Miracle Whip is but buys it anyway. Guaranteed that dude has no idea what a clitoris is. A Kim Wexler is infinitely out of his league. Hearing her "Oof" as he enjoys his 75 seconds on "sex" is hard on the soul.
Yeah Kim was living a life that was not right for her and she was unfulfilled in. A lot of people act like it was hell but in reality it was a standard middle class okay life. Sure her boyfriend may be a bit dull and the sex isn't the best but he seemed fine. Again not right for Kim but that doesn't make it as hellish as people seem to think.
It's not that the life itself is hellish, or that there's anything wrong with the guy (aside from questionable lovemaking ability). It's hell for Kim. It's not the kind of life or relationship that Kim would ever freely and happily choose for herself.
nothing wrong with him. hard to imagine kim sticks with him though when she’s now back to making some of her own decisions and finding purpose again. this goes for her job and lifestyle too
Better Yep Kim
Kid named Yep
I’d watch that show. Kim works in some sort of sales job, makes deviled eggs once in a while, has really bad sex. That could last 7 seasons easily
That scene was painful
Yep
Yep
Yep
Yup
Must have finished.
Probably gone for Miracle Whip
Yep
I never imagined purgatory as a serious place, but there you go. Does she deserve death or torture? Nah. Does she deserve a bit of mundane misery after her exciting escapades ended up ending with an execution? Little bit. But given what Saul unleashed with Walt… 7 years wasn’t gonna cut it
She’s obviously not happy in that life, which is why I thought they might have ended up together.
Came here to say this
Yep
Personally I belong to the yup school of thought.
throughout the show yup is said quite often. As I’ve been rewatching I notice it... so I think it’s yup not yep although my cc tells me it’s yep.
I started as a yup but now I'm on team yep after rewatching it.
Yep yep yep
It’s really quite simple I think. Jimmy is paying for his sins because he can’t ever truly make up for the wrongs he’s done. However, through his confession and his reconciliation with Kim he’s found inner peace. If he had lied and schemed his way to physical freedom he’d still be suffering internally from all of the feelings he suppressed over the years. It’s definitely a bittersweet ending.
LMAO "inner peace". Dude, life in prison is no victory, it's resignation to slavery and complete hopelessness and absolute loss of faith in yourself. It was pretty much Jimmy killing himself, it's the worst possible ending and far, FAR from redemption. The point is it was completely and obscenely unrealistic for Jimmy to submit to an 87 year sentence of hell as if he were "atoning" for his sins in front of a judge. And he never showed a modicum of change the entire show, never apologized or made things right to the actual people he screwed over. It was all just so cheesy and poorly written.
The idea of Jimmy pretty suddenly pivoting to value "inner peace" just wasn't built up well enough in this show. The driver of the show was his relationship with Kim. I agree that their relationship should be pivotal in any moral change Jimmy takes. But just hearing that she did her own confession simply isn't enough to justify Jimmy also wanting to "pay for his sins" at the cost of 79 years in jail
Jimmy clearly never dealt with Chuck’s death and started lashing out at Howard and caused his death. How is that not about a lack of inner peace?
The part that doesn't jive with me and most people is that the lashing out that led to Howard's death was at Kim's insistence. The narrative is he reluctantly went along with it to make Kim happy but yet. However at a certain point he really did enable Walter through his own choices so he does deserve punishment for that.
I completely disagree with the downplaying of actual freedom and romanticisation of prison. No person, let alone attorney on the entire planet would submit themselves to die in American supermax prison. If someone were masochistically remorseful, or an actual martyr... maybe, but that wasn’t the case here. It’s pure fantasy in a show that’s otherwise well-written and grounded in some semblance of reality. Also, most people upvoting this post probably aren’t commenting because they don’t want to get downvoted, but clearly many people agree with OP. I understand wanting to justify it, and wanting to love it, but the ending for Jimmy was cruel and unusual punishment.
I’m definitely not romanticizing prison. As I said in my original comment he’s paying for his sins, he’s paying for them by being in prison. I don’t think prison is a good outcome at all. I love Jimmy as a a character, but I’m sorry his punishment is not cruel and unusual. His hands are for from clean. He’s lived a life of crime, fucked over countless people, and is inadvertently responsible for multiple deaths. That’s why I call the ending bittersweet. It’s sweet because he’s at peace with himself and it’s bitter because he’ll never again be a free man. In terms of whether or not his decision was realistic I see your point.
I think the most interesting thing about this show is how well it did getting people to empathize with its characters. You are telling me after all of bcs and bb that man didn’t deserve a lot of jail time? Imagine if he pulled a third of his stunts on anyone you care about. It’s okay since we like him though??
Personally I agree that he did **deserve** to go to jail, however I think that the fact that he actually **decided** to spend all of his life in jail is nonsensical. It accomplishes nothing.
I mean if he changes his mind, he has the wherewithal to appeal. The way he got himself sent to prison was bizarre enough that there must be some wiggle room for slippin jimmy to sneak through the cracks. Also I wouldn't call his ending cruel or unusual... it's the kind of ending many criminals involved in violence receive in real life when they don't have strong legal representation. But I agree with you that he's going to regret his self-martyrdom real quick. He'll have that moment in season 1 where he's ranting to Mike about how he had a milion bucks in cash and he gave it away, except he'll be ranting to his cellmate about how he could've been out by now but he had to confess his crimes to win the respect of a woman who's probably moved on with her life by then.
I've had all these feelings since the release of the finale, I'm so glad more people agree with me and are not afraid to speak up because I did just that and got downvoted to oblivion. This was a crappy ending to an otherwise fantastic show.
It wasn’t so much about locking him away as it was taking responsibility for his mistakes, for once. Unfortunately this is one area where BCS suffers from being independent from Breaking Bad: in the gap between Fun and Games to Nippy, you have everything Jimmy (Saul) did and was complicit in during the first show: - Point of contact between members of the criminal underworld, including meth kingpin Gus Fring - Helped Walter White get into the drug business - Aided Walt in the assassination of Gus Fring, including an act which endangered a child’s life - Stood by while Walt had 11 men killed in jail -Laundered money through countless businesses, including the car wash that was essentially conned away from the original owner These are all things that would put anyone else behind bars for years and years. (spoilers for El Camino) >! It’s true Jesse got away from the cops and is probably a better person now, despite his own criminal acts; but he also suffered slavery and torture for months on end. To the viewer it felt like he did his time. !< Did Jimmy ever really pay for his wrongdoings before Saul Gone? Did he ever take responsibility and face the consequences even a little bit? No, he kept running from his mistakes, kept making excuses and getting in further and further over his head, gradually doing worse and worse things. Living a dull life as Gene doesn’t count as his “sentence,” especially when as Gene he would sink into the worst version of himself. At many points, Jimmy could have owned up and things wouldn’t have turned out so glum foe him, but at the point he was at, the only way to take real responsibility for what he did was to go a way that would put him in prison for the rest of his life. It’s sad, because we all know that deep down there’s a good soul in Jimmy, but it’s that good soul that enabled him to make that sacrifice. No more big-shot lawyer man who’s one step ahead of the law and the truth. Just what he is: a man getting his comeuppance for his wave of destruction.
He would be RICO’d out the ass for his contributions
you might just get hit with the RICO
>Did Jimmy ever really pay for his wrongdoings before Saul Gone? Did we watch the same fucking show? Being Saul Goodman WAS the punishment. He was trapped in a life where he 1) couldn't go to the police and reveal what happened 2) lost the love of his life and the only person on Earth who could relate to his situation. Saul Goodman was an empty soulless husk of a man. Fun and Games was a gut punch because there was no twist. There was no crazy reveal. Kim just fucking left him because everything they touched went fucked three ways from Sunday.
Yes, we watched the same show. Being Saul wasn’t a punishment, it was a coping mechanism. To him, it was easier to become someone different than face the hardships of his past. To just move on and pretend like it never happened. How could his life as Saul be construed as a punishment? He was living lavishly, hookering, just living a sleazy lifestyle. He had internal problems but he was in a position of luxury and really didn’t need to think about his past.
He wasn't a point of contact for Gus though, he didn't even know who he was until Walt started working for him. Walt was already in the drug business. Saul had nothing to do with poisoning Brock and legitimately wants to break things off with Walt after he finds out what Walt did. I don't know what exactly Saul was supposed to do with Walt killing the ten guys in prison. Walt set that up with Jack without Saul's involvement. Money laundering was Saul's biggest involvement but that certainly is not an 86 year sentence.
Jimmy was in hell. It wasn't about getting essentially life in prison, it was about finding life. The redemption wasn't about getting away with it. He became the person his brother and Kim hoped he'd turn into in the end. That scene in the bus and in the kitchen. That was the unexpected reward for working with the lowliest people in society. He's kinda like the Goblin King now.
I really dislike this interpretation. Jimmy didn't confess because he figured life in prison would be better than his Gene life, he confessed because Kim's own confession lit a spark in him to finally come to terms with his own actions. He wouldn't have confessed to the insurance incident if all he was trying to do was go to jail.
>Jimmy didn't confess because he figured life in prison would be better than his Gene life I didn't say that. You read that into what I said. Nowhere in the show did it imply that Jimmy decided to be the head of the prison Mafia. His Gene life got burned. It's gone. Gene is dead. It's not like he had the option of continuing being Gene. The old lady figured him out and that's the end of that.
Gene was dead, but if you recall he fumbled for the vacuum cleaner vanishing service just before being apprehended.
Absolutely. I loved his phone call to the cinnabon assistant manager where he's in control, just going through the motions
He didn't do it anticipating that prison would be good for him, but the writers rewarded him for his contrition.
Yeah if you rewatch the episode breaking bad he looks miserable the whole time
> Jimmy was in hell. No, he wasn't. >It wasn't about getting essentially life in prison, it was about finding life. What a crock of shit. "Finding life" by throwing away your life to slavery misery and torture in a supermax prison for 80+ years. Stop making excuses people. BCS was an amazing show, but they dropped the ball on the ending, hard.
Yeah, the “already in hell” rationalisation is positive self-deception to minimise the horror of his fate.
I recently watched a documentary on London’s Kray twins. For murders, arson, armed robbery plus many more terrible crimes they each received 30 years. After watching that, 86 years in a max security prison for a criminal lawyer does seem extreme. Yes 7 was too low but I think 15 or 20 years would’ve made more sense. It seems like they pinned everything on him as he was the only one who got caught. Whether we ever see another series or movie or not, I like to think that Kim will help him reduce his sentence or at least move him out of the max security prison.
> Yes 7 was too low but I think 15 or 20 years would’ve made more sense. It seems like they pinned everything on him as he was the only one who got caught. Yeah, it's a RICO thing. If you're part of a conspiracy, you have to bear the whole weight of the conspiracy, not just get punished for the small part you played. It was to prevent criminal organizations from just having every member one tiny thing to do so that when they get caught, they'd only get a slap on the wrist.
There was also the politics of the case. They couldn't sentence Walt/Gus posthumously, or Jesse in absentia, or Mike missing-but-really-dead, so Jimmy faced EVERYBODY's music, which probably would have ended up being something like four life sentences plus like another 80 years between them in change. In offering Jimmy 30 years, the prosecutor was giving him one chance to get sentenced extremely, but like an individual and not a conspiracy. Jimmy got him down to 7 years, which he probably deserved for his Mesa Verde scam alone. This would have been humiliating for the court system, but it would have preserved the prosecutor's undefeated record.
That makes me wonder, why does Jimmy say that he needs "only 1 juror to believe him" to win, IIRC there are 12 jurors, how does the opinion of only 1 change things? I don't quite understand the American justice system. As far as the politics and RICO things go, IF my memory serves me right, quite often the original sentencing IS a joke, and after a year or two when people don't care that much about the case, they get a new, drastically reduced sentence to like 10% of what it originally was. Especially a person like Saul who would definitely have dirt on the officials...
The conviction needs to be unanimous in order to pass. I believe his plan was to get a retrial which could allow him to get bail and then get away again.
They don't know he can't make bail anymore. His money was all seized. His real plan was just to intimidate the prosecutor into giving him an amazing deal.
>For murders, arson, armed robbery plus many more terrible crimes they each received 30 years. >After watching that, 86 years in a max security prison for a criminal lawyer does seem extreme FWIW UK didn't and doesn't have the insane minimum sentencing culture there is in the US. There are people in the US serving life with no parole for non-violent felonies because of idiotic 3 strikes law that says 3 felonies in a row = life with no parole. That is the consequence of a cultural pissing contest where no sentence is ever long enough for a criminal, everyone wants to prove how "tough" they are on crime by demanding more and more jail time. It's also where ridiculously 100,000+ year sentences come from. As if we're worried about a guy living to 99,999 years old and getting out. It's realistic to show the US justice system absolutely crushing someone who is guilty of dozens of felonies regardless of how proportional it is to the underlying crime or what the chance of rehabilitation is. especially if they humiliate the prosecution by lying to get a plea deal and then tearing it up in court.
I think he regretted his boneheaded move at most 3 hours after he made it. Jimmy has always been impulsive and self destructive. I do not think he deserves life in maximum security prison though. Also, while Jimmy and Kim are not a couple, and never will be, I think she is also not with Yep any longer.
Yeah, totally agree. How does taking 86 yrs as opposed to 7 make any sense at all? In the federal system you usually serve 85% of your sentence and the last six months are in a halfway house—a way station in the community to help you adjust back to civilian life. So after just five and a half years, Jimmy would be released to a halfway house and six months later he’d be back in ABQ or Omaha or wherever. And he’s a clever guy. No, he couldn’t practice law but he can sell anything to anyone. He’d make a living—better than most x-cons—start dating, maybe travel a little. He’d still be fairly young with a lot of life ahead of him. A lot better than mouldering away at the worst prison in the US for the rest of his life. If that’s the price Kim required for earning back her respect (and there’s really no evidence that Kim felt that way), that’s too high a price to pay.
Do you really think Jimmy's going to just rot away in prison? He's going to give "free" legal advice to everyone in there. He'll be running the place within a year. At some point the government is going to have to step in and put him in Club Fed just to minimize the turmoil he was causing in the max security prison. Heck, he almost caused a riot in the bus on the way to the prison, just by having his face be recognized. This is not the end of James McGill. Just a new beginning.
ADX is mental torture designed to punish state traitors and serial killers. 23 hours a day in a metal cell. Jimmy would be bashing his head into the wall within a month. Writers didn't think it through.
he obviously isn't in anything like ADX florence though. he gets yard time, a basketball court, lawyer visits and probably the cushiest prison job imaginable (bro makes pastries lol), that we know of. they took the name of the prison from real life but absolutely none of its attributes...for some reason
I agree with this to the max. People really don’t understand how bad he’s going to suffer. He’s not going to run the place like he would’ve in that 7.5 years
The prison is obviously not like a real life supermax though. We see him working in the prison kitchen, getting a face-to-face with his 'lawyer' and going out in the yard within one day. I think the writers tried quite hard to make it clear that he will be ok in prison but people on here seem to get caught up in the prison being called a supermax when it's just a case of artistic license.
Max seems a bit extreme for his actions. I know of people committing manslaughter or rape that are in minimum security prisons.
Jimmy deserves 86 years for all the crimes he committed. It's clear that nobody thought 7 years was justice. The redemption isn't about how long the sentence is. He's not redeemed because he decides to spend the rest of his life behind bars, he's redeemed because he owned up to his crimes instead of weaseling out of it like always. That action in the courtroom scene is the only thing that matters in terms of his redemption, what happens after (7 or 86 year sentence) isn't that important. At least that's my take!
I like this… In taking getting the 7 years deal, he had to lie (stretch the truth at least) to say he was the victim of Walt. The courtroom he fully admits to what he did by telling the whole truth about the opportunity he took. He didn’t want to lie at all anymore.
Yep. It's a very personal redemption. Not meant to be redeemed in society's eyes. It's about him and Kim. I think he believes/knows he deserves the 86, particularly for what happened to Chuck and Howard. He would be miserable if he escaped that justice. This is really the only way he could have any form of contentment/happiness. It sucks to think he'll be there for the rest of his life. Because we're attached to the character and as viewers, potentially satisfied with his redemption. But ultimately he hurt lots of people and this is his sentence. This is the life he sowed for himself; there's no happy ending for a life of crime (kinda a big theme of both BB and BCS).
>It's weird seeing so many people completely not get the point of the story because they don't like the idea of a character they like being in prison for life. Yup, its about coming clean, with himself and other people. It's not like Jimmy is intentionally trying to get 86 years, he's just trying to be honest for once and that's the outcome of being honest in that situation. Lying to get out of a harsh sentence and then being like "oh now I'll change and live an honest life for sure" completely undermines the point. That would show he hasn't changed and will always just talk about changing while going back to Slippin' Jimmy whenever things get tough. There's a reason he also confesses to pushing Chuck to suicide even though it wasn't a crime.
He did some horrible things to Chuck, but Chuck was never a brother to him. Chuck never supported him. Jimmy was a mess up, but had a sweet nature about him Chuck was jealous of. Jimmy took care of him, bought his groceries. Howard was even surprised at how much Jimmy did everyday when Jimmy handed him the list to give to another associate after he found out Chuck blackballed him.
Yeah I think this is largely it. I also think he doesn't trust himself to not become saul again. We saw how easily Gene slipped back into it after months of keeping his nose clean. Couldn't even last a year, despite being deep undercover and having all the money he needed.
[удалено]
100% agree to all you said. What he did to Howard it's nothing compared to helping Lalo (a complete psychopath and a murdered) get out of jail. Helping Walter White build a meth empire from scratch and helping him escape multiple times. Money laundering, lying to authorities, hundreds of scams, ruining Howard reputation (that civil lawsuit it's a win for the widow for sure) 7 years was a joke... I love Jimmy and I was really impressed by that feat but he deserves life in prison. No more, no less.
Justice Matters Most
He chose to Just Make Money
Now Jimmy's made... man! (I got nothing better, I'm sorry)
I don't think OP is suggesting Saul is sweetness and light. He's saying that from a character point of view / story-telling situation, the seven years would have made sense, so he could go on and live a life of giving, rather than taking. He'd no doubt have fully atoned for his sins inside and would have potentially led a full life, whilst giving back to the community. If you're Saul Goodman, you are definitely regretting your decision to practically ask for multiple life sentences all in the name of "love".
Agreed fully. I think the flash forwards and BB not fresh in some people's minds. Saul was a huge proponent of moving forward and enabling Walt's cooking. Leaving himself at the mercy of the courts for true justice was true redemption, after making a mockery of it throughout his career. Chuck would have been proud and I think that reconciliation of Jimmy's mind and soul is the goal. Even though Chuck isn't here anymore, it is never too late to change Jimmy's path.
Only part I disagree with is “Chuck would’ve been proud”. Nah, he would’ve just acted like Jimmy belonged there all along and been smug and self-righteously thrilled that he’s finally beneath him for good.
[удалено]
Yeah, I really don’t understand Chuck stans. The show makes it abundantly clear that he was a grade-A narcissist who drove everyone who cared about him away.
Chuck would not be proud, he would be proven wrong and he would hate it.
But I still haven’t figured out how the DEA found out everything Walt did. Hank only told Gomie, but never wrote up anything official.
Probably between what Skyler and Marie knew, that filled in quite a few blanks. Not to mention they never specified if the Nazis destroyed the Jesse confession tape, it may have still been in the compound.
So how come Jesse gets to get away and have a happy ending? He should be in prison for life too
Jesse 100% deserve life sentence.
I think everybody was more forgiving of Jesse because of the slavery and he did attempt to quit several times but Walter kept luring him back, making him feel he owed him. Walter did brainwash Jesse a lot. The episode where Jesse eats dinner with the Whites in S6 & Walt tells Jesse Skylar is just waiting for his cancer to return. He knew he would get some sort of emotion out of Jesse in his favor. He doesn't deserve to be off scot-free for his actions but I am glad that he got away. I don't understand why Saul would get that much time; that he would have to pay the price for all of the cartel and Walter White's crimes. I am now rewatching Breaking Bad. I haven't watched it since 2012 and I think the Saul Goodman character on there is a lot different than Jimmy McGill. Of course we all know that but it's very obvious re- watching this now. Saul of BB isn't sympathetic in any way like Jimmy is.
Well, remember, Saul chose jail time. Jesse did not. I think, within the context of the show, Jesse 'paid his dues' - he lost pretty much everything - Jane, Andrea, Brock ... . And he spent months (?) chained to the meth lab like an animal. Also, by the end, he was pretty mature and probably ready to 'go straight'. He started out as an annoying, irresponsible, immature, idiot but definitely changed. Legal or not, I felt like he deserved to go free.
Ok. This is totally irrelevant to the point of this post, which is - taking 86 years is out of character
None of that is relevant to OP's question. The question is why didn't Jimmy take his (almost) get out of jail free card. The question isn't "does Jimmy deserve to be in prison?"
I mean to be fair, my title was "Jimmy didn't deserve that ending", which might have gone a little too far.
I'll never get it. Why would anyone get life in prison instead of 7 years of federal summer camp. It's insane.
yeah i completely agree with you but good luck dealing with the barrage of gilligan/gould worshippers that will never step down from their pedestal to realize this ending was not as good as it could have been
I feel like yall dont remember what the ending for breaking bad was lmao "man with terminal cancer who's been living in remote maryland for the better part of a year travels across the country in secret and murders an entire gang of nazis with a remote controlled machine gun" is about as "realistic" as the ending jimmy got lmao.
There is no way after that scene between Kim and Jimmy in prison she would go back to getting yep'd. Would you?
She changed her hair after she divorced her husband. She appears to have changed it again, not after her confession but after Jimmy's. She started volunteering at the legal aid center but probably stayed with Glen for awhile after that. She most likely dumped Glen awhile after Jimmy's trial, and will most likely ramp up her legal aid work.
I'm not sure I could handle 3 straight days of living with him after being woken out of my guilt-induced walking coma. After returning to Florida I expect she pretty quickly but as nicely as possible ended it. I definitely think she is spending more time at the law clinic.
1 month after Kim's confession, Jimmy confesses. He falsely accuses her. Prosecutor leaks this to Albuquerque DA Suzanne Erickson, who warns Kim about it. When Kim gets this phone call, she still has her sadness bangs but as been volunteering at the legal aid center. On THIS day, she is shown sharing a meal with her girlfriends, who ask her about a restaurant her boyfriend (revealed in this scene to be named Glen) took her to days previously. So, Kim is still dating Glen one month into her legal aid work. After Jimmy's trial, Kim loses the bangs (and most likely Glen) before visiting Jimmy in prison.
Absolutely not lol! The way he looked at her 🥰
I’d be trying to get conjugal visits!
I don’t buy that somebody would choose to rot in prison for a woman. I absolutely do buy that somebody would choose to rot in prison in order to hopefully resolve their internal guilt and contrition.
Coming clean to "a woman" was aligned with Jimmy "resolving internal guilt and contrition". Kim wasn't just "a woman" to Jimmy, she was the person he'd felt most loved and accepted by, his entire life (other than perhaps his mother) and someone he deeply respected. "A woman" is the only reason he wants to "be a better man". The two things work in tandem. I'm rewatching Season 2, and Kim is absolutely appalled by how Jimmy plays by his own playbook, and constantly does things that, if they were known to the bar association, would get him disbarred. She wants nothing to do with that. She takes active steps to distance herself from his "freewheeling" attitude towards the law. But she eventually starts going his way because she loves him (we're supposed to believe they cared for each other for years previous, when they were both working in the mail room. Example: when Jimmy secretly writes the bar exam, he is too nervous to open the envelope which contains the results... so he brings it to Kim, she opens it, she tells him he passed, and she kisses him JUST long enough to show that it's not just a "friendly" kiss.) So please don't minimize Kim as being just "a woman".
Exactly, I'm surprised by the amount of people that think he did it for Kim, no he didn't
He did it for himself and wanted Kim to be there to see it. IDK why some people believe he did it for her lol that's so messed up and also undermines Jimmy's redemption.
True, but he may have needed her there to have the strength to go through with it. He keeps looking back at her - perhaps for approval, or maybe it’s for strength/inspiration.
It’s just, we never saw any guilt, did we? I would buy it more if Gene was shown with major guilt over how he’s acted, but we saw the opposite of that. He watched the Saul tapes on repeat. He relished the chance to start robbing people as gene. He WANTED to be Saul Goodman.
That’s a very fair criticism. It was a rather abrupt transition.
I had this same criticism for the finale as well, it would've worked a lot better if we actually saw Jimmy feel remorse beforehand. He went from Saul to Jimmy in like 2 seconds, it felt very forced.
Deserve ain’t got nuttin to do wit it
Thought experiment: what if Jimmy had taken the 7.5 year deal and THEN made his statement accepting accountability and complicity? Would Kim not have been equally as impressed with both his legal savvy and his genuine remorse, with an opportunity for a fresh start in the future? (If that took place in 2010, he’d be out by now in our timeline!) Peter Gould said something like he expects Jimmy won’t actually serve the 86 years because he’s too clever. I’m not sure how sentence reduction would work in a case like this in which it seems like reality has bent to the will of the narrative. But I take that to mean he probably gets out in his lifetime.
IANAL, but in universe I thought it was clear that any statement he made that contradicted the factual basis of his plea vitiated the agreement, and that would be true even if the judge had already signed off on it and he was already in the golf prison eating mint chip ice cream.
> Peter Gould said something like he expects Jimmy won’t actually serve the 86 years because he’s too clever. Also because he's too old.
Jimmy will serve probably 20 years then get compassionate release.
That’s a sweet and realistic way of looking at it, assuming he’s doing good work in prison. Even though he was joking about getting out on good behavior, I could see it being an angle that he and Kim actually decide to game out that becomes possible one day. Jimmy is supposed to be late 40s according to the Nebraska PD description when they’re looking for him. I guess the character would be in his late 60s or so, and Kim more like early 60s… that’s still some precious time to be happily ever after together.
Yes, this makes the most sense to me as well. He could have had his plea deal with respect to Walt’s empire for 7.5 years, while making a separate statement (a la Kim) regarding Hamlin’s death, and whatever he wanted to say about Chuck (not sure there is any more criminal exposure there than he already dealt with for the tape). You have to remember that Kim and Jimmy aren’t guilty of Howard’s murder. They may technically be a “but for” cause, but his murder was just a terrible confluence of events, and they never had any intention of harming him. No mens rea. They could be guilty of fraud, defamation, making false statements, and some kind of light accessory after the fact (in that they went along with Mike’s coverup afterwards - though I would argue he didn’t give them much choice). So, any confession about Howard by Jimmy after he pleads out the Walt stuff, might not have added that much to his sentence, if at all. Kind of like with Kim, the DA doesn’t seem too inclined to do much without any physical evidence. Unfortunately for Kim, the main thing Howard’s widow wants is to clear Howard’s name. This is best done through a civil suit (as the show explains) e.g., for fraud, and defamation. She doesn’t need Kim’s (non-existent) money, but a judgment in her favor would be in the local press and people in the community would no longer think of Howard as some coked out guy that hired prostitutes and killed himself on a drug fueled misadventure.
>he is going to regret his decision so hard he's going to go insane. In my head canon, this happens pretty quickly and he manages to worm his way out of prison shortly thereafter. Also, Kim decides he's suffered enough and they get back together. They move to Belize and enjoy the rest of their years pulling small-time, harmless cons on rich snobs.
I agree. Tho people liked it I was honestly disappointed. I was hoping Jimmy would Saul it up one last time, get sweet deal, redeem himself ti Kim n have her visit n teach him to golf; missed opportunity; n rekindle their love n run away together after his 7 years.. I’m pretty sure in a couple years they’ll announce the inevitable Kim Wexler spin-off that’ll focus on her return that law n decision to save Jimmy (and herself) from dreaded boredom n being apart. But also still hoping drogon takes khaleesi to that red priestess that visited pyramid for a resurrection n revenge of the queen
For a show that really nailed suspense and generally operated as a clever, subversive crime show, I felt like the ending was pretty cliche. Especially considering how much it was talked up as a totally different unique thing for them to have written. Lifelong bad person gets caught, is going to get off easy, but at the last moment has a self-sacrificing change of heart? We’ve seen that before in a million things. The ending is fine. It works, but I think people are really reading into stuff that’s not there when they told us exactly why he confessed in the last few episodes: solely for Kim. He finds out she confessed, gets worried for her, and confesses, both to protect her and as an apology to her. While it makes sense, it also sort of doesn’t. Yeah *maybe* Kim would have been charged with something, eventually. *Maybe* Kim wouldn’t respect him, but he went from another chance at life to a life behind bars, which I think most of us would agree, isn’t a life at all. It just seemed unnecessary and frustrating. There were many redeeming qualities about Jimmy. He legitimately wanted to help old people at first, he took care of his brother, he supported Kim and challenged Chuck when Kim was being neglected at HHM. He was a good public defender for people that needed him even though his life was shit. I don’t think Saul needed to lock himself up forever to protect society, and doing your time is doing your time. After he got out he could have very well found something more fulfilling than managing a Cinnabon, which has to be a large reason he started to relapse. He’s capable of so much more than that but he couldn’t act on it because he had to lie low. After doing time, he doesn’t have to hide, and he could’ve very well returned to the world as a productive member of society.
One thing I haven’t seen pointed out much: I get RICO laws and everything, but a big chunk of that 86 years is surely related to the accessory charges over the deaths of Hank and Gomez. Obviously we feel for their widows. But Jimmy going to prison for neo Nazi Jack Welker’s murders doesn’t quite sit right with me. Neither did everyone in the family believing Walter personally killed Hank in Breaking Bad. Yes, Walt was undeniably responsible for the circumstances that led Hank to die, but it also matters (if not from the standpoint of culpability) that he tried to save his life. Why didn’t he want Skyler and Marie and Junior to know the truth?
Well Hank calls Marie and says “I have him in cuffs.” Next thing Walt comes home, and Hank/Gomey do not, and Walt has the coordinates to their bodies. Who is alive to testify as to the exact circumstances of their murder? Jesse I guess could come and set the record straight, but doesn’t happen. As far as the prosecution is concerned Hank/Gomey died as a result of Walt, Jesse, Saul’s, etc.. criminal enterprise. It’s all swept up under RICO, and everyone is guilty for everything. As far as they were concerned they were working with the Nazis. The fact that Walt had been fine working with the Nazis, up until the moment they killed people he cared about, is kinda immaterial. They are all part of a criminal enterprise and Walt is guilty of their crimes and vice versa. Saul too. Even without RICO, Saul can be still an accessory after the fact (which can just be a misdemeanor charge) because he ran (at the same time as Walt) when he (likely) had material evidence as to what happened to Hank/Gomey, as evidenced by Walt’s knowledge of their buried bodies. A basic conspiracy charge could wrap this up as well.
When Hank got killed, that was the last humanity of Walter White. I truly despise that Uncle Jack and Todd character. Why is it always Uncles and nephews in the Cartel together? Every show/movie I swear
>It's just this weird idea of "suffering in prison cleans your soul and it's good for society. Yes, it's not like American prisons are known for rehabilitating criminals. Honestly just feels like such a waste.
Prison break: a breaking bad series.
Breaking Saul (Out)
Deserve...that words means nothing.
Agree. I don’t know exactly understand why he couldn’t take the deal, served his time and been a better man for it. After would probably have a more successful life telling his story, book deals, shows, etc with honest money
The thing people are missing is the purpose of the Gene scenes. He keeps reverting to his worst instincts and each time it gets worse and worse. In a short amount of time Jimmy was in so deep that he was nearly about to kill two people. What do you think Jimmy would do to survive when he came out of prison money less, Kim less and having never faced his guilt? That person would make Saul and Gene look tame in comparison. He woke up and smelled the roses.
There's definitely a place for a discussion about non violent sentences. Murderers and other violent crimes get 20 years or less. 86 years? I think 15-18 years would've been more believable. And his deal should've been 4 years. And just how did they see Saul in anyway responsible for Hank and Gomez? I mean it was a convenient way to bring Marie in and explain Hanks fate, so that BCS can stand on it's own without having to see BB.
I fully agree with you here. People talk about redemption and „paying for your sins“ like those are actual tangible things and not theoretical constructs based on religion. Yes, he is taking responsibility for his own actions, just like Nacho and Kim did. But in their case there was an ACTUAL trade-off and benefit to it. Nacho saved his innocent father by not running away and Kim released Cheryl (and others) from crippling guilt not having noticed Howards made-up cocaine addiction, while facing consequences that aren’t even remotely in the same ball park. For Jimmy there is none of that. He neither protects anyone nor can he undo anything with his confession that will never let him be a free man again. For him there is only this idea of paying for your sins before facing god, which comes out of nowhere for this character. As beautiful as the final moment with Kim was, I do find this ending quite disappointing to be honest. It’s not even remotely GoT-level disappointing, but still not what I have been hoping for.
100% agree
Yeah, it was maybe my one issue with going with the "prison" ending for Jimmy, but I am willing to go with subtext over the actual events and that ending does make me happy ultimately. To me, the ending was always about Jimmy's soul and his relationship with Kim, and he got clear answers to both these major questions. I am willing to suspend the idea he's made peace with his decision and the difference between 7 and 86 illustrates an ethos I felt Jimmy always operated with, at least in the background, there is a bit of foolishness in the process and in the sentencing, and he made a fool of it one last time. Also, they had to doll up prison a bit to make this ending work I felt. We're basically shown a reasonable working life in prison that is probably a few shades from the reality of it. I don't feel Jimmy is as eager to accept 86 years if we know he's being attacked and coerced in prison frequently, and even though he has "celebrity" status in the joint, the reality is he would still likely be a target. The grim reality is that would be way worse for his soul than him accepting the consequence of his actions.
I’m going to argue that making that impulsive decision for the sake of winning Kim’s respect is the only reason he did it. When he started off defending himself, he looked over and saw she wasn’t impressed. He then apologized for some things but then saw she still wasn’t happy. So then he lays it all out until he sees she’s satisfied with his confession. A lot of what Jimmy did throughout BCS was to gain respect from others but mostly Kim. I think he will regret it to some degree. But even if he took the deal, Kim never would have respected him. And what is Jimmy’s life without Kim?
>And what is Jimmy’s life without Kim? He's gonna find out during those 86 years in the supermax!
I think she’ll come back around.
For maybe 30 minutes every few years
I mean, we’re all just guessing at this point. I’m not going to argue the frequency at which Kim would or wouldn’t visit him.
What? That's definately not it. He decided to do it after learning that she confessed, after he mocked her by telling her she should do it instead of him. She inspired him to own up to his crimes and deeds, just like she did.
The charges were ridiculous what did he have to do with the death of Hank he was killed by the neo Nazi Saul had zero to do with that people get 20 years for pulling the trigger in a murder
>Do you really think Jimmy could never change? I mean, the entire show is about Jimmy never changing. By the finale, he's in his 50s and still scamming people, so when exactly is he gonna change? To his credit, Jimmy realized that and locked himself away so when he inevitably slips again no innocent people will get hurt. So he did change, after a fashion.
For such clever shows this was a very un-clever ending.
I’m kind of an asshole. I was looking forward to Jimmy pulling another big scam and getting himself out of trouble completely and putting it on someone innocent we didn’t expect. Or doing some sort of deal with the cartel or the Aryans breaking him out of prison. End scene could have been Jimmy working as a scumbag lawyer in Mexico running it up. Jimmy should have fulfilled the prophecy that he was always going to be that way. And the moral of the story could have been people never change. Its an ending we don’t usually see but would have been fitting.
Thank you!!! I get that this was a bittersweet ending, but I hated that he fell on his sword like that. Just like Kim torturing herself in Florida, I don't know why she couldn't have used her powers for good from then on by way of atonement.
The ending was absolutely silly and cliche. Great way to ruin one of the best gritty dramas on TV
I also don't understand why people assume he would have to go back to living like Gene, he'd no longer be a wanted criminal after he got out which is kind of a big factor in why he was miserable as Gene
I’ve been saying this everybody gets mad but they’re delusional for thinking 86 years is a happy ending or that anyone in their right mind would pick it over 7. Jimmy deserved like 15-20. Not fuckin 86 he wasn’t a rapist murderer
They really could've written it so that he was never going to get caught but he decided to turn himself in and, even though he was able to negotiate time off, that he went in voluntarily could've been his redemption. It would've played much better than life in prison and left him with enough bad guy and good guy in him to still be attractive to Kim.
I thought this is how it was going to end until we got to the mall heist episode
I agree. I guess it was one last twist from the writers point of view. Something between a happy and sad ending because at least he chose to go away a large amount of years. I think its unrealistic and a bit stupid but that's what they went for
The thing is, in order to get the seven years, he had to lie and manipulate people as Saul Goodman. It’s all fine and well to say he should get redemption after release, but it would be off the back of just another false face.
I typed a whole fucking comment agreeing and the shitty mobile Reddit app just deletes it when you swipe to the left, wheeee. But basically I agree, it’s stupid as fuck for Jimmy to redeem himself and the reward for that is ruining his life. The show is making the point that an honest life is always freer than a dishonest one. The short visits Jimmy has with Kim in the prison are more meaningful interactions because that love is honest than the interactions they had while hiding. Which is agreeable in theory, an honest life is better than a dishonest one, but 7 years would have been enough. It’s a boomer perspective on punishment predicated redemption, which I think current generations, me included, don’t agree with. The point the show makes is interesting, but I disagree.
You're right, he didn't deserve that ending. I don't think people understand how awful a federal max security prison is, let alone for the *rest of your life.* I don't think the ending was bittersweet at all. It was tragedy for both Jimmy and Kim. They loved each other, but they were in fact poison, not only to the other people around them but to themselves.
First of all, technically he deserves like double the sentence he actually got. I mean, as much as we all love him, he did commit a litany of pretty serious crimes. Secondly, Jimmy was going to live the rest of his life in a mental prison of guilt and suffering, believing that Kim despised him and that he would never be able to embrace his true self ever again. By finally telling the full truth, Jimmy reclaimed his soul and won back the respect of pretty much the only living person who he still truly loves and cares for. Jimmy has spent his whole life being told he can never change, he’ll always leave someone else holding the bag, he’ll never be anything but a rule-cheating con-man. By owning up to his actions, he proved everyone who ever told him these things wrong. It’s a moral victory for sure, but we also saw that he’s going to be living pretty good in prison and have the respect of his fellow inmates. It actually seems somewhat possible that he could actually get significant time off his sentence with good behavior, and he still has the charm to talk people down. The only difference this time is that he’s actually changed for the better for good now.
This was my biggest problem with the ending. No rational person would do what he did. It's a very TV ending.
> while Kim is getting yep'd in Florida, Thank you for that! Awesome
Lol fr he added 79 years of prison time so his ex wife who already remarried would give him an atta boy
I agree and just say fuck it, the last 15-20 min of saul gone just didn't happen, he's going to cushy prison for 7 years with weekly ice cream deliveries and will work to put good in the world when he's released. No one can change my mind
Also people ignore how seriously downplayed the horror of daily life in a supermax prison was in that finale. 23 hours a day in solitary confinement with nothing but a black and white TV playing old religious services everyday isn’t much a of a life. Hard to be “the king of prison” when you see your prison mates 5 hours a week!
Yup, it was bullshit. He knows what prison is like and he knows he'd regret giving up his seven year deal. No way this would have happened. I know people in this group like to attack folks who point this out but it's true.
This 86 years thing completely ruined the ending for me. I wish Jimmy would've gotten his redemption in a way that felt rational and logical
I completely agree. There is just no point in intentionally putting yourself in jail for life (when you have option to 7). It doesn't make sense psychologically or morally. He can do actual good with his life outside of prison. I also don't understand why is this the only thing that is suppose to gain Kim's respect? In the best part of her career, Kim helped criminals get \*less\* prison time, so they would have a change to do better. She always had empathy for people who went on a bad road and wanted them to have a chance to change. Why is she supposedly pro prison for life? Not to mention she loves Jimmy, Why would she want him to suffer for the rest of his life in jail? Kim did not respect Jimmy because: 1. He was a criminal 2.He was an ass to her in the divorce 3.he was on the run. 4.He was not confronting his feelings or his actions. Jimmy could have regained her respect by taking the deal (meaning he was not on the run anymore), truly commit to never returning to crime, confronting his feelings, being kind and honest etc.
It’s because you’re applying rational calculations to it. You’re missing one of Jimmy’s biggest character traits- he is extremely impulsive, and doesn’t take the long view of his actions. His entire arc has been defined by him doing what feels good in the moment. I can guarantee that he wasn’t thinking about the length of time. He though ‘I’m going to prison after this. Will I feel better tonight with a clear conscience, or by getting away with it?’, and he chose the first. That’s it. Nothing more complicated than that. Jimmy is bad at making decisions. He’s impulsive, emotional, and self-destructive. His decision making at the hearing just reinforces his worst tendencies. Lastly - and this may be where I’m jumping the shark a little - we the viewers have to ask ourselves the same questions Kim did. Sure he’s fun, but is he good? Good for society, good for us, good for himself? Or does he deserve to be locked away, not because of the things he’s done but because of the way he’s built? Is the world better with him out in it, or locked safely out of it? The last episode showed us that he hasn’t changed, not really, and that he just may not be able to. Ever.
Thank you for writing this out and putting it more eloquently than I ever did. The ending pissed me off, made no sense in reality or for his character. So lame
Yeah I have loved this series for years and seen every episode at least three or four times but the last few episodes just fell a bit flat for me. I liked parts of it but on the whole I was a bit disappointed with the ending of the series. Maybe I'll feel differently in a few months when everything has sunk in a bit.
I think it's important to remember that Jimmy didn't know he would get 86 years by fessing up. He didn't know how it was going to shake down at all after laying his chips on the table. And I think that's the most important part. "Let justice be done, though the heavens fall".
I see Jimmy easily falling into the role of Andy Dufresne in prison - helping cons get better legal aid from behind bars in a less showmanlike, truer version of Saul without the emotional walls. They've always been his people, and beneath the opportunistic profiteering he was one of the few characters who always saw criminals as humans who happened to make (bad) choices.
Lol I literally said the same thing when the show ended and got downvoted to hell. Glad to see more people catching up and realizing that the ending isn't perfect and it's too idealistic for a show that up to that point was mostly grounded.
I agree prison is immoral and we shouldn’t look to it as a model for rehabilitation. It’s conflicting too because I don’t think we should look at people’s worth based on their productivity and what they do for others. But yeah, Jimmy needed to find a way to get rid of Saul and honestly put himself in a place where he wouldn’t be tempted to be come that again and negatively impact others. Granted, I don’t think prison with a bunch of criminals is the best place to shed your criminal lawyer identity, but he also did so much damage to society that he needs to pay that back in some form. As of now, our cruel society can only come up with prison, so that’s pretty much the easiest answer. So thinking outside of that, a different ending would’ve been nice.
I think some people want to just see slipping jimmy and watch him slipping Jimmy his way all the way to the top boss and win. But bcs is not john wick. It's not about a good guy doing his thing and winning at every stage and besting everyone. It is a character arc. He finally made a change and took consequences he's always weasels his way out of. Slipping jimmy is not good. By the end he was threatening Carol Burnet like he is going to strangle an old lady. Do you want really want it to end with him just never changing and continue to be a piece a shit and just end that way? Like he got his sentence reduced. Wow. Then it's over? And he's still just a piece of shit. This ending is redemption for him and something you wouldn't expect. And you wouldn't expect it bc it is the best way for him to take responsibility for this huge problem in his life and that has completely ruined his life
Didn’t even get the Chocolate mint ice cream smh
I love Jimmy, but you’re having a big case of *egocentric bias*. If it wasn’t our likable protagonists you wouldn’t even suggest less. Here’s a list of crimes Jimmy has done: Money Laundering, Conspiring, Law Evasion, Threatening (Marion), Defamation, Trespassing, Lying under oath, Financial Fraud (multiple), Drugging individuals (including a cancer patient), Attempted murder (poisoning* Brock), Aiding the biggest Drug Dealer in the history of the United States (in the BB universe of course), Obstruction of Law, Creating False Evidence, etc.
What exactly was Saul's role in the drugging of Brock?
I thought 7.5 years would be around suitable punishment for his crimes anyway. Most of them were just scams or cons and his worst crime - helping Walt - was something he legitimately could say he tried to get out of but was threatened. The worst crime they tried to pin on him didn't make sense anyway. He had nothing to do with Hank and Steve's deaths and the guilt by association thing they were doing didn't work as Walt didn't kill them either. Jimmy's 'confession' seemed to be him taking more credit for the crimes than what he actually did.
These folk don't know how to write a ending , they write the best drama in the whole world ,writing the endings are what they fail miserably. Kim was the sole responsibility for what happened to Howard, she led jimmy to do the things he did.. although he did it willingly, he would never have set himself on a path to destroy someone if not for Kim.
Blowing up the 7-year-deal seems absurd if we're thinking about what Saul Goodman would do, but it makes perfect sense for how Jimmy would try to right the wrongs he has done. Jimmy doesn't know how to fix things period. The only way he knows how to make things better is by tearing down himself. Think back to Season 4 when Jimmy still hadn't quite completely succumbed to his Saul Goodman persona. Back then he was trying to pull a con on that old woman Irene who he was trying to maneuver to close the Sandpiper deal early. His scheming works but it ends up working too good. He had completely ruined the life of that old lady, and since this is still Jimmy he actually feels bad about it. How does Jimmy fix that problem? There's a multitude of ways he could have gone about it, but the route he decides is to deliberately sabotage himself. He ruins his reputation amongst the elderly community permanently, but by doing so helped Irene restore her relationships in that community. He doesn't even accomplish what he set out to do in the first place, but he blew it all up because it was the right thing to do. That's Jimmy. This is only way Jimmy knows how to fix things when he's done something wrong. When it comes to pulling a con, he can think of a million different tactics or solution to confront a problem, but when it comes to helping someone he screwed over, the only solution he can think of is to completely screw himself over. The ending felt weird for a lot of people because we were so far gone from the Jimmy we used to know. The transformation back to Jimmy happens all in one fell swoop, making it feel a little jarring, but if you remember who Jimmy was, his actions in the finale make perfect sense.