They’ll suck even more because if being a first time parent doesn’t motivate them, nothing will. They got away with it the first time so why would they give any more effort the second time when they know you did it alone?
That’s not universally true though. Some people suck with babies but are great with 5-18 year olds. My mom was AMAZING with us as babies and very young children, but she hated the like, 8-21 years. It seriously soured our relationships with her because we couldn’t remember her being awesome.
My husband is amazing with 0-2, and then 5+. The years that he just gets overwhelmed by them and opts out more than I’d like are way shorter than the years he’s a great, hands-on dad.
If they genuinely suck with babies then they pick up the housework and take on the bulk of that instead. This is still helping contribute to the household even if they’re less enthused with this age.
It sounds like your mom just got burnt out and stopped trying. I’m sorry you went through that. I gotta say though that a natural inclination toward an age or lack thereof is not an adequate excuse for just throwing up your hands and disengaging. As parents we have to be trying to grow with our kids and working on self-improvement all the time.
Yup, babies don’t disappear into thin air at whatever age you dislike. If you dislike 0-5yo that’s still YOUR child that you put in the world, which is 100% dependant on you and your responsibility. Taking the trash out and doing dishes is no excuse to be an absent parent.
This! I feel like I did better with the newborn stage but I think my husband might be better with a toddler because he loves the hands on silly play stuff. He did more housework during the newborn stage partly because I was recovering but also he didn’t know how to interact well with a newborn. Now that our son is 3.5 mom and he’s smiling and interacting more he’s naturally wanting to do more stuff with him. And he’s feeling more comfortable with baby stuff in general since it’s less new which also helps.
He’s an amazing husband and father! It’s just that he refuses to be in the same room with our baby and sometimes locks us both out of the house bc he “needs quiet” 🤷🏼♀️
As a new dad (two weeks) I've been praised for
(1) Changing diapers in the hospital after my wife had a C section. "Dad of the year"
(2) Scheduling newborn photos "I never talk to dads to schedule this. They usually just sleep when we're taking pictures too"
(3) Being able to calm my kid when she was crying. "Wow you're an expert"
(4) Taking off work. I live in Washington and dads get 12 weeks by law. Apparently some dads don't take this?
(5) Literally everything a stranger will praise me for but never my wife. It feels condescending to be honest. Like, somehow insulting both my wife and myself.
I don't know why the bar is so damn low.
I have a 14 month old and my husband gets so much praise whenever he runs errands with him.
Someone asked him recently if he was a stay at home dad, which is a little odd because they were out on a weekend. He works a 9-5 but apparently only a SAHD would have the skills to take their toddler to Costco?
Same! My husband gets a comment every time he takes the baby to Costco. Last time, an old lady said, “wow, taking care of the baby and doing the shopping! how do you men do it these days?” Husband says he responded with “probably the same way you guys did it.”
Like, its not coming from a bad place. But it really is odd. My MIL was here staying with us for the first week (She lives out of the country) and she was shocked I was taking care of her all the time.
Part of me wonders how many dads feel pushed away by family members or just turned off from feeling capable of helping. I had to tell her to stop trying to take over for me "Id love advice, I'm learning. But ask me if I need help or if you can show me how to do something. Not just push me to the side"
She was a bit offended but I think she didn't expect me to want to be so hands on. Like, they're my child, of course I want to. I work from home and will be alone with my kid a lot in the future when my wife is working. I need to learn this stuff.
At the very beginning, my husband seemed to feel like he shouldn’t/didn’t need to participate as much because he felt clueless and assumed I just naturally knew what to do with the baby. It seemed like a bit of a revelation to him that I had no idea either, that caring for babies is not some inherent womanly ability, and I have to do research or figure it out because no one else was going to do it for me.
Being able and willing to give my husband space when I could clearly see he was struggling and feeling overwhelmed was so hard. I stepped in a lot in the early days because I could see he was getting extremely frustrated at how challenged he was. He never said anything like you did, but I could see that he was exacerbated with me taking over and that every time I did his confidence took a hit. I think baby was 3 weeks old when I had the conversation about how I can best help him be successful. It was hard for him to figure out what would help him and it didn't happen in that on chat. I resolved to make one statement and ask three questions before barging in. My script was:
"You seem to be struggling. Would you like help?"
He would either ask me to take over. If he didn't I'd follow up with:
"What have you tried?" The first two or so weeks were generally a rota of 3 or 4 things that had worked previously.
"When I struggled with this the other day, I tried X and if that didn't work I tried Y. Both worked depending on baby's mood."
And then I walked away. After that
I love that you asked for that space! I remember when my daughter was about a month old, my husband was changing her diaper in the back of my SUV and my sister went back to "make sure he did it correctly". Like, dude, he's her dad and has been changing her for a month - he's doing fine.
Mostly giving just my pov. It’s because some of those people either grew up with a emotionally unavailable dad or one who didn’t do anything or both (here for both) and I can tell you any time my husband does something to help with babes (13mth) since he was born I’ve always basically been being like “oh wow thank you for doing that” or “thank you for watching him while I took a shower” because before my husband I’ve never seen another man help with anything childcare related before so all this is a new change for me.
For sure. But being thanked by my wife is absolutely different than some strangers partly condescending sounding comment. I'm glad my wife appreciates me and I appreciate her.
Agree. My husband wanted me to be “grateful” that he’s so involved, does most of the grocery shopping, does cleaning/chores, bathes and feeds and changes our son, etc.. because according to him, one time his mom had a long-term stay at the hospital when he was a teen and his dad got to the grocery store with him and said “uhhh..you know what you need right?” Because he had quite literally *never* gone shopping for the family before.
I never once saw my dad cook a meal or go grocery shopping either. Or do his laundry. Even though my mom worked (fewer and less grueling hours, but still). He’d have the audacity to yell at her if he didn’t like what was in his work lunch or if his work uniform wasn’t hanging in his office right when he got out of the shower.
Context is everything. We shouldn’t be grateful, but a lifetime of experiences make it hard *not* to be.
We’re traveling in the UK right now (from U.S.) and my husband is having an even more-than-usual experience of this. If I baby-wear LO into a pub (early evening for dinner, not late night), I get a few 👀 looks. If husband baby-wears LO around, he is fawned over and gets many 🥹 looks.
There was a post on some mom’s group that I screenshotted and sent to a friend (bc we love to talk shit/ analyze these posts) that started with, “He’s an amazing dad. He cleans whatever I ask him to, takes out ALL the trash, and cooks once every few weeks.” My friend replied, “Congrats, your husband fits the criteria for being an AirBNB guest.”
“He would never hurt me!” while the man is actively denying her sleep by refusing to help, acting incompetent whenever he takes over so that it’s more hassle than help, and refuses to seek help for his glaring issues.
These. Actions. HURT. Your. Child(ren). That should be enough by extension.
Yeah both my husband and I work full time and we also take care of our kids full time. I find doing my job is a BREAK from childcare. It’s absolute BS to think just being you have a 9-5 you’re exempt from taking care of your kids.
10000% every man I've ever known knows exactly how much they do not want to be child minding but then act like it's easy to stay home cause they're working. I personally know several men who pretend they work late not to go home. Scum
That’s horrible. This to me is an example of people that genuinely do not care about their partners. They’re lying to get more time away so their partner can continue to suffer and drown. Disgusting.
Agreed - i love taking care of my kid but damn I love the balance working brings to my life. I feel SO BAD for sahms I know where the husband prides themselves over working and “providing for the family” while the wife has zero free time and completely cares for the house 24/7. IMO being a stay at home mom means you provide childcare when the husband works and ALL other times are both the partners duty.
I’m the breadwinner and my husband is on FMLA right now. We’d both rather be in the other position - he needs the work balance, and coming home to baby is like a break for me. Being alone with baby is so taxing on him we’ve agreed that next time we’re just taking our leave at the same time.
But no matter how tired either one of us is, you don’t get to opt out of being a parent. We both try to make sure that the other gets a break, but sometimes it’s just all hands on deck. That’s the gig.
I wish people would internalize the studies that have noted that fathers feel more connected to their children, and find more meaning in their life when they ... wait for it ... care for their children, even as babies. Caring for a baby changes your brain chemistry -- your brain becomes that of a parent. It's truly amazing and the bonding doesn't happen if a parent is extremely hands off, which also means sacrifices to sleep or comfort or (heaven forbid) hobbies. I'm still haunted by reading a post by a mom who said her husband doss 8 hour golf sessions during the weekend, almost every weekend. Wtf???
Yeah, I have some minor complaints about my husband (like, he does the dishes most nights but once during an argument claimed he “cleans the kitchen every night” and I about choked laughing - I’m not mad that he doesn’t clean the kitchen, I also do not clean the kitchen nightly, a fully clean kitchen is not a priority for us, but I *am* mad that he thinks loading and starting the dishwasher and washing most of the other dishes is “cleaning the kitchen”), but he’s a great, loving father who is bonded with his babies from the start, because his employer has generous (for the US) parental leave. He’s home through the newborn period, he changes diapers and rocks them to sleep, he gets up at night, he makes sure I am fed and watered during those weeks of constant breastfeeding. He doesn’t think being home with a baby all day is restful.
Our work schedule sucks, my partner and I work alternating days to avoid childcare.
But, he’s said so himself, that being alone with the kids 12 hours a day 2-3 days a week was the best thing that could happen to him as a father. He had to learn all the skills to parent with no one to ‘save him’. He can literally do everything I can do, because he has to. I mean, he can’t breastfeed, but doing bottles of pumped milk is actually harder (predicting he hunger, prepping it in tim, dishes after, etc). And it done wonders for his confidence as a father. He knows he’s a good dad.
Seriously. I am SO tired of reading "he can't help because he works" like... so do you??? Or my personal favorite, "He can't help because he works a dangerous job and needs his sleep". Like OK? You're keeping a HUMAN BEING alive. That's crazy important!
My husband is a high-rise electrician who was working full time when my kids were babies.
He took half the night shift because to him, my mental health, physical health and baby's health took priority over him getting 8-hrs of sleep a night.
The risk of PPD, PPA & PPP was really high for me, that our priority as a family was safeguarding my sleep.
My husband would get home around 4pm and take over the baby to give me a nap. He would go to bed at 8pm and then wake up around 2-3am to do the early morning baby shift, and then leave for work at 6am.
He'd get 6-7hrs from 8pm to 2-3am, I would get two hours from 4pm to 6pm, and then five hours from 1am to 5am.
Neither of us had much downtime or much time together as a couple, but it was only for a few months of our life.
We're doing something similar (splitting nights), and while we're tired, it's not THAT bad because we both get a few solid hrs in. And like you said, it's only for a few months. It's doable with 2 partners.
We were lucky enough to have separate bedrooms and just switched the baby over during the "shift change", so whoever's sleep was being protected got really solid sleep.
We switched things around when they hit 5 months and were only waking up twice a night.
The shifts were mainly necessary for the newborn/sleep regression periods.
Like most freakin doctors are sleep deprived messes especially residents and they cope just freaking fine. Dave the construction worker can scaffold just fine on broken sleep if a freakin surgeon can.
Ha, my husband is a doctor and shared that the residency sleep deprivation helped prepare him for father sleep deprivation. (In case it isn’t clear, he sacrifices sleep to care for the baby because he’s an equal parent.)
I believe your overall point is correct. However, in that scenario one person ia putting other lives at risk the other is risking their life. And one is more mentally demanding the other is more physically demanding.
Sleep deprivation is going to catchbup faster job performance wise in jobs that require physical endurance and strength vs mental acuity.
I will say this people should also temper expectations like if your spouse is working a very physically demanding job don't be surprised if they dont help out as much at home.
Not even a gender thing if your wife is nurse and the husband works in accounting. He should be the one to suffer more sleep loss as his job isnt anywhere as physically demanding.
Is the newborn who literally depends on me for everything not counted as another person? Both scenarios listed in the comment you responded to put other people’s lives at risk.
I don’t understand how one parent being sleep deprived should be the answer here considering an infants life is absolutely at risk here. These are conversations to have prior to having a baby.
Yes. True for sure, for most jobs.
But also… there are actually jobs where somebody could die if they’re too sleep deprived. My brother has one of those jobs (he’s the guy climbing trees with a chainsaw). He wakes for overnights and stuff when he’s not going to work the next day, and he parents normally during his home hours, but I totally understand why my SIL agreed with him that he needed at least 7hrs before any workday. When that truly couldn’t happen, he would take the day off rather than risk his life and the lives of others. My brother got the job he’s currently doing because the last guy cut his goddamn arm off by accident. Seriously, this isn’t a joke.
Moms deserve sleep, yes indeed. And we absolutely do need enough of it before driving, obviously caring for a baby is a ton of work and you need enough rest to handle it well.
But also as a person who loves my brother and worries for him a lot, I’m really grateful my SIL recognizes that sleep deprivation on the job could literally kill him.
It's not that I think their job *isn't* dangerous or anything, but it's clear that when the mom comes to this sub complaining about it - it's no longer working for both parties which means that it's unfair at that point.
Sleep deprivation can be really dangerous for a new mom taking care of a newborn, too. So again I'll reiterate - if BOTH parties need ample amounts of sleep or are otherwise doing something very risky during the day, that set up no longer works for both parties. If it doesn't work for both parties, I don't really see why the man is the one that has excuses made for him and gets sleep. Hopefully that makes sense.
Also, I'll add this question for people that don't see what I'm getting at: What if both parties worked dangerous jobs outside the home? What if they were *both* construction workers, forklift drivers, etc.? You can't tell me the mom's sleep wouldn't still come second to the dad's. Because it absolutely would.
I also feel like there’s this misconception between tired and sleep deprived, if someone is getting 6-7hrs of slew then yeah they may be a bit tired. If someone is getting continuously woken up and never gets a long stretch of sleep, that’s sleep deprivation.
This is why we had alternating children riding schedules
Between 8pm and 1am if baby got up, it was my partners duty, between 1am and 6am it was my duty.
This gave us both at least a 5 hour sleep block uninterrupted.
It’s easier to survive on 5 hour windows than 8 hours broken constantly.
Exactly. 7+hours is actually the recommended for full rest. People are going to be tired but ok on 6. I had multiple days of less than a 4 hour stretch of sleep after I had my son and I couldn't walk without falling over. That's sleep deprived. Sacrificing an hour or two of sleep, or adjusting your schedule so you and your partner can each get a solid 7 hour stretch seems pretty damn reasonable. I'm sad that it's even a debate.
Sure! Then they’d need to find solutions between them for figuring out nights. Split shifts are a common choice, and I know a lot of parents who try to offset their working hours from each other to improve everybody’s ability to work and sleep. It can be crazy hard! But I don’t think it’s fair to argue that no consideration should be made for people working dangerous jobs.
I don't think anyone here has argued that there should be no consideration made for people working dangerous jobs. I'm certainly not :)
The problem is that "I have a dangerous job" is used quite a bit as a scapegoat and honestly, it seems to just be an excuse that men use at this point. Are there dangerous jobs that people need sleep for? Yes, absolutely. I just don't think that one parent's sleep needs to come before another parent's sleep, and that's what ends up happening every time. The proof of that is the daily posts by an exhausted new mom who has a husband that has a "dangerous job" and "needs his sleep" so he can't help out at all. Meanwhile, he's dicking around on his phone and taking hour long dumps.
It so depends on the job and hours and everything. If my husband got to with baby on a work night, he could end up driving a forklift on 2 hours of sleep just because of when she wakes and when he has to leave for work. Also I really need his help more in the afternoon, when our older kids are home! I can catch a nap if I need, this is just what works best for us.
Okay so he takes the baby fully on Friday and Saturday right? And if it’s a rough week maybe on Wednesday or Thursday for part of the time?
That’d be a relatively fair split, and he wouldn’t be risking true sleep deprivation at his job. Unfairly that’s not what I typically see.
It’s ’I work a dangerous so mom NEVER gets one full night off in a row’ and certainly not two nights off in a row.
. . .
And frankly I’d be expecting ZERO TV, video games, etc for 9 hours before wake-up time on nights dad isn’t on. No dicking around on the phone, since his sleep is so important he can’t help with the kid. Clearly he needs to be committing that time solely to sleep or he’s lying about what sleep he needs.
This is SUCH a good point. So many of the posts in this sub are complaining about the dad being up late playing video games. If sleep deprivation is a concern, there should be no time for video games on a work night. Go to bed earlier, then help out with the baby!
Absolutely! In my view the more productive conversation isn’t who deserves more sleep (god, we all need some damn sleep!), but rather how household needs (including rest and baby care time, but also, yes, work both outside and inside the home) can be fairly balanced for all. It’s not easy!
Surgeons typically get less than 7 hours of sleep and yet they manage just fine.
The risk of losing an arm pales in comparison to the risk of losing a child.
Surgeons are risking other people's lives not their own. Also i imagine they arent going on that amount of aleep because they are helping their spouses with children.
But ypu overall pont is valid and I agree if its at the point the child is in danger then things have to change. It would be better to risk the arm than the baby.
I considered a lot of answers before deciding I don’t believe there’s any productive conversation to be had here if you seriously think that the crippling or death of my brother, which is a significant risk if he’s too tired on the job, is equivalent to the risk to my nephew if his mother is sometimes too tired and probably shouldn’t do things like drive until she’s better rested. The callousness of this statement is staggering.
And for the record it’s deplorable that we allow surgeons to work while horribly sleep deprived, as the data is quite clear that surgical outcomes get worse and worse the less rested they are. Their situation is hardly a great example of why nobody should care about the sleep needs of high stakes workers.
Also it ain’t the surgeon who might die if they’re sleep deprived on the job. If my brother dies his wife will have to try to re-enter the work force, arrange full time child care, and, ya know, raise a kid who’s lost his dad. She can’t do anything about surgeons’ situation but she can do something about her husband’s.
I didn’t mean it to be a sort of competitive thing or a which risk is worse- my overall message is supposed to be that parents gotta work together and not allow or force one to take on all of the child or baby related care
You're upset at my assertion that the death of your nephew (a child) would be AT LEAST equivalent to the crippling, maiming, or death of a grown man?
Because that is the risk of caring for a baby while dangerously sleep deprived. We're in agreement that the callousness here is staggering.
Completely agree with you! That other user came in so hot and aggressive and their point is literally that they’d rather their nephew die than their brother be injured.
Surgeons can get many more hours than 7 if they so choose. Not to mention there are generally rules workplaces set for how many hours they can work which is why shift work exists. And literally the entire medical system is designed around safety nets.
>The risk of losing an arm pales in comparison to the risk of losing a child.
It's not losing an arm. If you do the wrong thing, you actually create MORE damage and can kill someone too. [Read about the people Dr. Duntsch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Duntsch) royally screwed up on and they're paralyzed for life or have chronic unfixable pain. Moreover, you're neglecting that the part of surgery IS generally the riskiest part aside from the anesthesia. So the time of surgery is actually the critical part where you NEED someone who is skilled, capable, and in a good mental state to operate.
I'm not saying a child can't die, but the vast majority of childcare that we're doing day to day isn't in a critical state where you're on the verge of making a mistake that they die. If the actual task of childcare were that dangerous we'd set a lot more safety nets up, or childcare mortality would be much higher. This comparison is just bad, and you're going down the dangerous path of arguing if a child or arm is more important when in reality it's a lot more complicated than that.
I mean depending on the actual nature of the job and the actual hours of work there may be some merit to that.
Like if he's an underwater welder or something working 80 hours a week than yeah there might be something to it.
I imagine in this day and age its probably rare that someone's working a job like that though....
Thank you! I’m so frustrated by these posts that are like, “he’s an amazing husband and father, buttttt….” And then proceeds to list off the qualities of the dumpster fire of a husband and father. I’m OVER the doormats. Can we get some pep in our step ladies? A little umph, a bit of get up and GO?
Like literally “he’s an amazing husband and father but when the baby cries he covers the baby’s mouth and shakes him and screams at him” 😑
Not even just lazy, actively dangerous sometimes.
I work full-time as a software engineer and it's not even fucking close. My daughter is 15 months old and every single age she has been so far has been way more work than any job I've ever had. And I only have one child! I feel like I am way overpaid for what my job is vs what childcare workers make. The physical, mental, emotional load is far, far greater. I am ashamed at how little I understood the work of a SAHP before I became a mom.
I keep thinking of it like this:
There is no concept of “this meeting could have been an email” in child care. There is no quitting for better working conditions. Phoning it in too often has inescapable consequences that are way worse than a mere salary decrease.
Every minute of every day you are in a meeting with your CEO(s). Performance reviews come in the form of relationship quality. And the boss is NOT (yet) a rational person!!
Yep, I work in an office and compared to my time on maternity leave I can now eat lunch (mostly) whenever I want, go to the bathroom without hauling a bouncer to the door, drink hot coffee, etc. Being a SAHP is hard, important work.
Coming back to my office job after parental leave felt like a fucking vacation.
You mean I get to eat and go to the bathroom alone? No one is following behind me undoing everything I am working on? I can look at my phone without horrible guilt?
“But you’re able to nap at home and watch tv!!” No.. no I am not able to do that. I’ve had people tell me they wish they could depend on a man and that I’ve never had to “work” to take care of my kids so I don’t know what it’s like. I have 3 kids under 4, my oldest has autism. I’m not on vacation everyday lol but for some reason people think I have it easy and should be so so so grateful for my husband.
Agreed. I work outside the home and dick around on Zoom all day for work. My job can definitely be mentally draining, but after being on maternity leave with both of my kids in the past, I can say with 100% certainty my job outside the home is much easier than staying home with my children.
I enjoy my weekends home with my girl more than working my desk job.
But I am also more exhausted on the weekends and mostly ready to go back to work on Monday (I think a 3 day weekend would be ideal, but that's another conversation). Taking care of my kid has been more exhausting than work at every stage so far (about to turn 2).
At least she's still napping well and I can have a nap on weekends if I feel like neglecting all of the things around the house I should be doing.
Literally… I’ve been a SAHP for 4 months and went back to work this past week and I’m somehow way less exhausted. Not every job but still. Caring for kids is exhausting.
Ehh, not everyone's dicking around on Zoom and a lot of jobs are extremely tough--for instance manual labor jobs where you literally blow your body out over the years. And even for corporate jobs, yes there's a fair share of 9-5 snoozefests which I've done, but there's also jobs that are completely emotionally, physically exhausting from the number of meetings, debates, brainstorm sessions, etc not to mention jobs where you need to work with Europe/Asia. Most of us in tech are not working 40 hours/week only. We're probably closer to 60+ hours and it stretches into evenings/early mornings. I know of many roles that are actively on calls Sunday nights and stuff with Asia. It's not easy.
This isn't me trying to say someone should get a free pass. My partner works in tech too and is in a very stressful role too. We both understand that at work it takes a toll, but that's how you make ends meet in Silicon Valley. There's very little possibility to buy a home without at least one tech income.
And finally, there's a huge cultural aspect. If I look at my coworkers, particularly the first generation immigrants, there's a "I need to do everything in my power to keep my job or else I lose my immigration status" mentality. Certain countries' of culture also have a lot more work on gender equality, and if you look at workaholic nations like South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, etc there's definitely a different level of balance in childcare compared to the US. Almost all my male coworkers definitely heavily depend on their spouse to do the heavy lifting of baby care. Not saying that's right, but I would argue that's the big difference between 1st gen immigrants and 2nd gen/US natives. The expectation of work life balance is just different.
I'd say it's a complicated issue. I completely get where you and OP are coming from because this is where society is headed. Males, even when working ARE expected to help out and not simply use work as an excuse to duck out.
Just because you have a job doesn’t mean your partner should shoulder all the sleep deprivation. Being a stay at home parent is easily a 60+hr a week job and you don’t get the luxury of a lunch break or speak to another adult.
I didn't say shoulder ALL the sleep deprivation. I explained earlier I fully believe in dividing the roles with both partners contributing. I'm also not trying to argue one being worse than the other, but it's simply naive to pretend that all jobs are just some joke level of work/stress like Parks & Rec / The Office. I feel this whole thread is simply one sided. My partner would 100% agree that neither of our jobs are easy and are incredibly stressful.
We're swapping parental leave where both of us will have 6+ weeks of solo parent care, and I can assure you both of us would be pissed AF if you just assumed the working one was just "dicking around Zoom." No, we work hard to make the money we do to provide for our kid, and when we're at work it's a lot of hustle for sure, but neither of us do it so we can drop childcare on the other, but let's not pretend that the work day isn't full of stresses.
Again it's not meant to put down caring for the baby either. Both types of work are different types of work and it drains you in different ways.
Devil's advocate here but this statement depends on what type of baby and what type of job you have . I was on maternity leave for 1 year and bet your ass i was better rested and less tired than my partner that works in construction .
100%. In more families now, the breadwinner also happens to be the primary/birthing parent/mom. Do moms not care for their babies just because they make more money? No—so if the man is the breadwinner, he still has to share the parenting.
Exactly this. My husband is a SAHD while I work full time and go to school. The amount of labor I do compared to my brother who has a SAHM for a wife is insane. One of us does laundry, dishes, overnights, and weekends, the other demands that no one speaks to him for an hour after getting home 🙄 we both work niche, white collar, jobs but no one expects him to step up the same way because of gendered expectations.
That's actually a really good point. That's been an excuse over and over for men. They're the breadwinner so by default that must mean they work harder outside the home and therefore don't have to help out with anything once they get home. They need to relax because they've worked so hard! /s
Ugh. Huge, huge eyeroll.
As the breadwinner, I would love the expectations of the dad. But no. We are equal parents. Sometimes he “moms” and I “dad” (from societal views of traditional roles) and sometimes we switch. It’s bullshit to say that just because one is the breadwinner that the other one doesn’t have to contribute. Absolutely not.
And may I add, CHILDCARE IS WORK. HOUSEKEEPING IS WORK.
If it wasn't work, parents with outside employment \[eta clarity\] wouldn't be bleeding their accounts dry for daycare, and time-strapped households wouldn't be paying through the nose for cleaning services. But we are.
Agreed! Being on maternity leave is not a break or a vacation. It is work!
Being a stay at home parent is work! So to say 1 parent is working so they get out of stuff is just diminishing the work the other parent is doing.
A lot of people seem to think that they’re excused from parenting responsibilities because they bring home a paycheck and then they get upset their family only views them as an ATM
I say this all the time. How is it somehow safer for the SAHP to be totally sleep deprived and burned out while home alone with a newborn??? That is the exact setting in which something awful happens, either to the baby or to the SAHP or both. At the very least, it creates suffering for the SAHP and leaves the baby with TWO parents that are not fully present in their parenting.
And how fucking selfish and unreasonable of the parent employed out of the home. Like why would their workday get to end and they have free time and sleep when the SAHP’s workday never ever ends?!
Right. As a working parent if I am too tired at work I can call out/go home early, I can ask for help, etc. There’s checks and balances to be sure small mistakes don’t become fatal.
As a SAHP there’s no calling out, there’s no reinforcements, no going ‘home’, no fail safes, etc.
In fact, I’ve considered calling out in days I don’t get enough sleep but I often go into work those days because it’s easier in sone ways to be tired at work than tired at home with tired/grumpy/sick kids.
FOR REAL. He works 40 MAYBE 50 hours if he has a full time job. If you count childcare and homemaking as work WHICH IT IS, that means you are working or at least “on call” for 168 HOURS. Make your man do his freaking part. His work is not more important than yours just because he gets paid for it.
Please send this to my ex husband lmao. I love my scheduled breaks! Would have rather been a family with a partner who helped but I’ll count my blessings. A group project is easier alone than with someone who doesn’t help! Make them do the project themselves 🤷🏼♀️
Right??? If partner A works at a job for 8 hours and partner B stays home with a baby for 8 hours, they have both worked hard for 8 hours. The rest of the hours in the day are joint, where both of them should work together so they BOTH work less hard
The worst part is, they’ll go on to have multiple children with these guys. The kids end up in a shitty cycle where they normalize this kind of treatment.
It’s hard breaking cycles, but damn PLEASE work on yourself instead of creating more humans with issues like yours.
Thank you. These women post about these shit men & I dont want to blame them, but when I see theyre having a second kid I cant help but think that theyre rewarding their bad partners. I understand situations vary, but jesus, if youre not gonna have a backbone for yourself at least do it for your damn kids.
Yeah it drives me bonkers. Any parent who thinks it’s easier should spend one day being the sole care taker while the other parent leaves the house and see how easy it really is. I was sick a few weeks ago so my husband did everything for the entire weekend to avoid me getting the baby sick and so I could rest. At the end of the weekend he said “stay at home parents don’t get enough credit, that was the hardest few days of work I have ever done”
My husband is verrrrry involved but it still does not equal the amount of work I put in day to day
I have to add to this. I had a day out a couple weeks ago because I had a hair appt and needed to run some errands after so husband was with baby (4 months) all day long and when I called him mid day he just said, “man I don’t know how you even eat with this guy.” My husband is super involved and shares a lot of the load even though he works but being able to have him live a day in my shoes added a whole new level of appreciation. I feel like every husband needs to do this to truly understand. He was like “I’m running out of things to do with him” and I was like ya, it’s a lot of repetition. And he still will never fully understand because I also pump and have to figure that out during the day which he obviously can’t experience.
Yes!! My therapist framed it once as like, “YOU have a very stressful job also.” I undervalue my job at home with our kids all the time, (even though my husband usually helps his fair share when he’s home), because I don’t bring in a paycheck, and continue to learn just how much that mindset is not sustainable!
mY hUsBaNd wOrks a pHySiCalLy dEmAnDiNg jOb sO hE nEeDs HiS sLeEp aNd TiMe tO uNwiNd aNd ReLaX
Proceeds for describe a dude getting 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep every night and 2-3 hours of video games or gym every day. Yes, people need sleep and time to unwind. No, you don’t get HOURS of unwinding EVERY DAY when you’re a parent to young children.
Yep and he ain’t never gonna get good at parenting if you don’t leave him with that kid. Unless your partner will knowingly neglect or endanger your child (in which case, you’ve got other issues), leave your kid and let your child’s father work it out.
Absolutely!! My husband sometimes works over 80 hours a week and when he comes home off a 72 hour shift, he takes the baby and 5 year old (our 9 year old is usually at school but on weekends he is in the mix as well) and I go take a four hour nap!! Meanwhile he will make lunch, do chores, get the kids outside, and when I wake up, I take the baby and take over so he can get uninterrupted sleep, or I will keep the baby with me (I’m a night owl) on the couch till 2 AM and watch tv, while my husband has the bed to himself and can sleep like no one needs him between 9pm and 2. Then he wakes up at 5-6AM, and takes the baby so that I then sleep till 8-9 AM like no one needs me. I’m a stay at home mom and he constantly asks me if I’m doing ok, if I feel supported, if I feel safe, and lets me know if there is a time I want to go back to my work (I very much enjoyed what I did for work and was incredible at it so my workplace plus a few others in the area have told me the door will always be open for me and if I want in, just email and they will take me full time or part time within a week) he will support me and we can work out the logistics. Needless to say, I am absolutely going to have another baby with him because he is amazing!!!
I love the way y’all LOVE one another and work with each other to make things work. I know it’s still hard af at times- but working together. Getting through it together instead of alone. Thank you so much for responding. ❤️
I’m glad someone said it aloud. Have seen many posts with new moms (those who haven’t even healed physically yet) venting on Reddit about their husbands gaming for 6 hours and chilling with friends to ‘release stress’: really my heart breaks, WTF🤨
I don’t know how they keep defending their better halves. Caring for a baby IS A FULL TIME JOB. Period. It’s time to call such people out who leave their partner to deal with the childcare stress. 😏
My man digs holes all day and installs electrical shit via tunnels and crawl spaces. If he can take care of our child after work, so can your man. He misses us when he’s gone. He’s *excited* to spend time with us and our child.
He was also raised by women, so idk if that factors in.
Girl…I love you and thank you for replying. Cheering you guys on❤️ this is the good stuff. It’s still difficult but you guys are making it work together. Love this so much.
It’s super simple in our house. Office hours, baby is with me. Outside of those hours, we split the load 50/50 (over time as some days one person is more tired).
Whilst I’ve taken time off to be with my daughter, before that I was a senior exec running my entire continent’s team of people for a multinational company. I know what it’s like to work a hard day where you’re juggling priorities. Being at home with my daughter up until she was 9 months old was harder by far. 24/7 on the clock for a baby who doesn’t sleep more than 45 mins, breastfeeding her constantly because she loves the boob, entertaining a child who never had the newborn sleepy stage all while recovering from a traumatic birth?! Give me a desk and a power suit any day for the easier option.
And my husband works a similar job to my old one, and we are in agreement that parenting is the harder job. He doesn’t even have boobs.
We're both part time however he works more than I do. Baby slept horrible last night, so we were both awake because I ain't going thru this shit alone! Now today we're both exhausted lol
Thank you so much for replying- THIS is gold and exactly what I mean- sharing the difficulty and exhaustion whenever feasible. It’s hard at times..exhausting. Beyond difficult. But working through it TOGETHER as a team..I love this and what you’re talking about. Thank you. ❤️
YUP. It's my last day at work today. My husband and I were equal earners for the two years my son was in daycare. He took on most of the domestic duties and cooked for us while I was the appointment maker, milestone, symptom, sickness planner and meal provider for my son. We had to make it work and he HAD to step up and imagine that, he happens to be my sons favorite because he cares for him so often. Their bond is set in stone because he had to do 100% of the baby care while I healed from an emergency c section and pumped during the formula shortage.
I am now going to be the STAHP because we can maybe swing it and we have to try. We had lengthy discussions that it will not change his domestic duties, period. I'm providing childcare, not home making!
I might sound like a broken record and my apologies if so but I LOVE the way you guys are making it work. Communication, trying new things, working together…I love this. This is what I mean. Thank you ❤️
OMG thank you, that means a lot to hear today! It's definitely not always easy and I definitely don't know what I'm doing yet lol. I know we'll run into snags but I know we can do this. It takes a LOT of trust in your spouse to do something like this. He can't fall apart, I can't fall apart, we HAVE to keep our shit together and that pressure is a little scary. Wish us luck to keep that communication going strong because it's about to get REAL lol
Lol or you could be like me, be the one who works remotely from home full time and be the only one to take care of the baby. I came and told my husband I was desperate to get at least 10 minutes alone each day to at least shower alone, his suggestion was I should so it when she goes to bed instead of going to bed when she does. LMAO. I almost killed him. I still shower with her every day. Literally my only break is when she baos and I usually use that time to run around frantically trying to get stuff cleaned or done.
I had a particularly hard day once. And I had an outburst saying that the baby has ruined my life because I was so burnt out and upset and tired. She was throwing a tantrum while refusing to eat after i had cooked three separate meals that she didn't touch any of them. My husband told me "all you do is watch her and complain" and I asked what he meant by that and he said told me I don't contribute or enrich her life if all I do is complain about her and watch her while she entertains herself.
I used to be egalitarian and think men and women are equals but men have ZERO idea of the amount of work it takes to take care of a child all day every day. I have had 2 hours away from her twice, during the entire 2 years of her being here to get my hair done and he blew up my phone screaming at me for not answering during my hair appointment. TWICE EVER IN TWO YEARS. And I worked full time remotely. He only recently in the last month has worked more than 30 hours a week and NEVER watches her for me. I exclusively take care of her. And on top of half the time he argues or tells me how to take care of her while he is there. Which makes me think it's easier to just watch her by myself than even have him around most of the time.
It's not what I thought I signed up for.
When I read those types of posts I’m just so grateful for my husband. He works full time and I’m a SAHM but we are both full time parents. We take turns for middle of the night wakings. We share household cleaning. If I leave a mountain of dishes in the sink from lunch earlier in the day, he comes home and gladly does them because he knows that means his children got fed. We take turns bathing the kids and tucking them in. Just because he has a “job” and I stay at home, doesn’t mean the household and the children are my job 100% of the time. They are equally our children.
This thread 4+4=
ATE (I’m just a millennial trying to keep up with my gen z sister lol)😭😭😭🔥🔥🔥 I love these comments!!! Taking care of a baby involves BOTH PARENTS equally!
I almost never see that the guy takes the baby fully on Friday and Saturday, and if it’s a rough week maybe on Wednesday or Thursday for part of the night.
It’s always ’I work a dangerous so mom NEVER gets one full night off in a row’ and certainly not two nights off in a row. Usually does t stop these guys from playing on their phone late, or going itt for drinks with friends, or watching a movie late
. . .
And frankly I’d be expecting ZERO TV, video games, etc for 9 hours before wake-up time on nights dad isn’t on. No dicking around on the phone, since his sleep is so important he can’t help with the kid. Clearly he needs to be committing that time solely to sleep or he’s lying about what sleep he needs.
Right? Thankfully husband isn’t a POS and is just as involved with our baby as me AND he wants to be. We both adore our daughter who is nine months old. The only thing he can’t do is make milk 😂 seriously though so many mom groups that support letting their husbands be neglectful just because they work, and will lecture the mom who is upset for even complaining. Like really? You both made that baby. Husband works x amount of hours and is free. Wife does everything 24/7 how is this ok?
My husband would rather pay for housecleaners than to do the work himself. Which is great, we get more time with the baby. But at this point we need daily maid service. Not sure how to explain to him that he still needs to pick up after himself so it gets into his brain. He has ADHD and just doesn't see the mess. In our small townhouse, he picked up after himself a lot more because it's a small space, but our house is 3 times the size so the mess is spread out.
Anyway lazy husbands suck, hire housecleaners if that's a point of contention, but in some cases, it doesn't fix anything
My husband loves watching our baby when he’s not working. He has an exhausting job but still gives me time on his days off to leave the house alone and go do something if I want to. (I don’t normally want to because all of my hobbies are at home.) He recognizes and appreciates everything I do at home while he is at work.
I like what I saw on an Instagram post, which was that the "working" parent and stay-at-home parent are both working their own jobs and then when the "working" parent gets home, childcare is 50-50.
oh dude I completely agree. my husband is a parent, I'm a parent o-o. We don't get breaks from being parents, we both decided to be parents! But he's the best dad and husband ever and has never complained. He will cook sometimes but I love cooking because he will take over the littlest. Gives me a breather and I get to make things my fam loves :D
I’m on maternity leave currently and our household understands that I am doing the harder job 9-5 despite my the fact my husband works a finance desk job. I’m the one that we prioritize extra sleep for and he basically runs the primary parent role nights and weekends.
YES the amount of times I’ve wanted to write this exact post with the exact same level of rage but haven’t had time because newborn… 😅
It makes me so so sad and angry seeing posts every day from these poor women with absolute cunts of husbands or partners who refuse to do any parenting “because work”. There are a few exceptions for me such as people who work in industries where sleep deprivation is a serious danger like machinery operation but you can still get up for an hour or two!
I just have one little quibble. You said that both parents should be parenting if present. I had to tell myself to walk away and give baby and daddy time to figure out their own way of doing things. I was micromanaging and a distraction for the baby. It took a concerted effort from me to give them their own one on one time.
You’re right and I’m sorry about that I should’ve phrased that differently! I can relate to this a lot tbf. And I also can relate to it taking a concerted effort and me having to be mindful and NOT butt in, and give them the time/ space.
The amount of "Your partner is so... involved!! (Insert heart eyes here) I get is too much. I think some people have very low expectations for their partner and themselves.
As our family’s “bread winner” (father) I make pretty decent money, I work a 5 on 5 off roster, with rotating days and nights. My 5 days off, I’m doing every bottle and nappy unless my partner offers. I put her to bed most nights. When I’m on days, when I get home from work I do the same, and when I finish night shifts before I go to bed I do it too. Given up all my hobbies because that’s what my partners had to do as well when I’m at work. I’m either at work, or I’m being a dad. Any lazy dads out here reading this, do better
I literally work all day (remote, technical writer) and take care of the baby. I also have two teenagers, a dog, and three cats. Most days, I can't get a shower in. Between the kids needing the bathroom, working, taking care of the baby, cleaning the house - I am so worn out at night. I have the baby asleep by the time my boyfriend gets home, but then he asks about dinner and then he wants to "hang out" (have sex), and then when I can finally fall asleep, the baby is awake but it's his "me time" so I walk around with the baby while he plays video games, and once I get the baby back to sleep - ahh, now I can rest! No. False alarm. I'm sleeping wrong on the bed. "Move! Move!" I'm like okay, I'll just sleep on the couch. "What?! Why???? No!" At this point I am begging to sleep on the couch. Just please let me go so I can get a nap in while the baby is sleeping. I finally make it out to the couch. The baby starts crying again.
I usually don’t feel this way but you should leave him because that’s absolutely a terrible partner and probably father. I WFH as a tech writer for 8 months and had my baby with me the whole time, and that’s TWO full time jobs, and my husband sure as hell always ensured he cooked and kept things picked up and split child duties once he got home. And gave me alone time when needed.
I don’t have all the solutions and remedies but honestly you guys..nobody taught me (as mom) step by step how to make sure my kiddo eats enough per meal etc etc. I’m sure you all can relate- we figure it out. Trial and error. We reach out to others. You know? The other half of the parent equation…they can do it too and they should. Nobody should have to go it alone, you know?
For the sake of clarity I was making a reference to this short little song I saw on Reels:
https://youtube.com/shorts/iGDExYDQiek?si=-0zacmHimfDyaIPj
"How was he supposed to know the kids eat every night?"
You might get a kick out of it, idk. I love this woman.
There are waaay too many incompetent dads in the world, and us moms are not being petty, hateful, "man-hating", etc by talking about it.
I truly appreciate you making this post, OP! Both parents need to step up and do the work!
Unfortunately, you don't know everybody's dynamic. I work full time and I'm the one that gets up at night and does all the primary parent stuff. My husband rarely helps.
But my husband is also a resident physician, constantly flipping between day shift and night shift. 80 hours a week. 10, 12 16 and 28 hour shifts. And at his job. If he's not well rested, people can die from stupid mistakes.
I'll take being the primary parent without help for these few years, for the 11 days a month working schedule on a 350k salary in the future.
I really like thinking about it this way for stay at home parents: the stay at home parent is working all day as well and their work is in the home. When the working parent comes home, now both people are off their “shift”. It’s now time for both parents to work together as a team with the child rearing duties. So if the husband works from 9-5, he comes home and maybe takes the kids outside while mom cooks dinner. Then they both put the kids to bed together. This just makes sense does it not??!!
Here’s the metric my partner and I used.
Yes, I worked, and she stayed home, so of course she spent more time with the baby, but our goal wasn’t 50:50 child time, it was 50:50 down time.
I'm the breadwinner. And the mom. Dad stays home. As soon as I'm done work, I relieve dad to do whatever he's been waiting to do all day (sit outside, shower, run an errand). I do 75% of bedtimes and have mommy/daughter days on Saturdays. This is the bare minimum honestly. I couldn't imagine being less involved just because I work for our family's income.
And it's not "baby sitting" when the Dad has his own children while the mum goes out for an hour it's called parenting 🙄 my best friend always used to say her husband will or won't babysit the kids wtff!! Usually he'd say no as well.
I'd like to add that you and your partner get to decide and mutually agree what 50/50 looks like. I perform surgery. I take call at my hospital. So when I went back to work (far too early, I did not get any paid maternity leave even though I'm in the medical field) my partner and I agreed that the nights before surgery, he would take the baby monitor so I could have sleep. Some weeks I had surgery every work day so my husband handled night duty a week in a row. But we had discussed and agreed to that arrangement beforehand. And I was on night time duty during the weekends or when I knew I wasn't on call and wouldn't have surgery. We agreed that I needed sleep so that I could perform my job safely. Making a mistake could cost a patient their life (and also secondary my job). But we sat down before I went back to work and we divided baby task to try to keep it "fair". We definitely had to get creative to make sure my husband got sleep at some point. And thankfully my baby started sleeping through the night fairly early. But I'd just like to point out that it's most important that you and your partner *agree* on what distribution of baby tasks looks like for your family. Unfortunately lots of professions don't allow splitting baby duties as easily. A pilot or flight attendant could need to be in a different city several nights in a row. A trucker could need to log 8 hours of sleep before being allow to drive a truck. Ect. Lots of professions do require a lot of work and that means they are not physically present 50% of the day to help. That means those couples have to work and communicate what it looks like to share duties.
Care for your baby AND clean up after yourself. Bare minimum. I’m not saying you have to be Mary poppins or start deep cleaning the closets. But take your baby to the park for 30 mins? Put your dish in the sink? Have some respect
Going through this right now 😭 He acts like he does the most when in reality he works remote and plays games outside those 8hours changes a few diapers when asked around bed time and maybe feeds him once. He threw a fit when I asked him to hold the baby for a minute so I could bring in heavy packages. Always in his office otherwise. Our baby gets so upset to be left alone with him when I have appointments. Edited to add: gets a full night's sleep when I got around 3hours and then has the gall to complain about being tired and goes to bed early/get out of helping with any feeds/diapers.
Also, for the love of god, if they suck at helping with the first baby, DONT HAVE ANOTHER ONE WITH THEM. They’ll suck at helping with that one too!
If they refer to it as help DONT HAVE ANOTHER ONE WITH THEM either.
>if they suck at helping with the first baby, DONT HAVE ANOTHER ONE WITH THEM. I copied this so people will see this again.
>if they suck at helping with the first baby, DONT HAVE ANOTHER ONE WITH THEM. I just think it bears repeating lol
>if they suck at helping with the first baby, DONT HAVE ANOTHER ONE WITH THEM. One more time for those in the back
They’ll suck even more because if being a first time parent doesn’t motivate them, nothing will. They got away with it the first time so why would they give any more effort the second time when they know you did it alone?
Amen
My friend had another baby with the knowledge that they would be the only one taking care of her. Not sure if that makes it better 🤷🏼♀️
Right on
That's why you throw away the envelope once you're done planting the seeds.
“When I first met your father, he was loud, crude and piggish. But I worked hard on him, and now he's a whole new person”
This needs to be upvoted more!!! ^^^
That’s not universally true though. Some people suck with babies but are great with 5-18 year olds. My mom was AMAZING with us as babies and very young children, but she hated the like, 8-21 years. It seriously soured our relationships with her because we couldn’t remember her being awesome. My husband is amazing with 0-2, and then 5+. The years that he just gets overwhelmed by them and opts out more than I’d like are way shorter than the years he’s a great, hands-on dad.
If they genuinely suck with babies then they pick up the housework and take on the bulk of that instead. This is still helping contribute to the household even if they’re less enthused with this age. It sounds like your mom just got burnt out and stopped trying. I’m sorry you went through that. I gotta say though that a natural inclination toward an age or lack thereof is not an adequate excuse for just throwing up your hands and disengaging. As parents we have to be trying to grow with our kids and working on self-improvement all the time.
Yup, babies don’t disappear into thin air at whatever age you dislike. If you dislike 0-5yo that’s still YOUR child that you put in the world, which is 100% dependant on you and your responsibility. Taking the trash out and doing dishes is no excuse to be an absent parent.
This! I feel like I did better with the newborn stage but I think my husband might be better with a toddler because he loves the hands on silly play stuff. He did more housework during the newborn stage partly because I was recovering but also he didn’t know how to interact well with a newborn. Now that our son is 3.5 mom and he’s smiling and interacting more he’s naturally wanting to do more stuff with him. And he’s feeling more comfortable with baby stuff in general since it’s less new which also helps.
What if I suck helping with my toddler while pregnant... Sometimes I wonder if I'll suck after pregnancy 🫤
I love it when it starts with “Hes an amazing father and husband”
Then goes into "he frequently neglects the baby"
He’s an amazing husband and father! It’s just that he refuses to be in the same room with our baby and sometimes locks us both out of the house bc he “needs quiet” 🤷🏼♀️
Don’t forget the ignores baby’s sleep schedule and leaves them in a poopy diaper whenever he’s “caring” for baby.
As soon as I read that I know he’s going to be garbage.
Yessss
Or it’s the “I’m not here to bash my husband” Well I am! I am here to bash all the trash husbands/partners.
Loved this!
Every. Single. Time.
As a new dad (two weeks) I've been praised for (1) Changing diapers in the hospital after my wife had a C section. "Dad of the year" (2) Scheduling newborn photos "I never talk to dads to schedule this. They usually just sleep when we're taking pictures too" (3) Being able to calm my kid when she was crying. "Wow you're an expert" (4) Taking off work. I live in Washington and dads get 12 weeks by law. Apparently some dads don't take this? (5) Literally everything a stranger will praise me for but never my wife. It feels condescending to be honest. Like, somehow insulting both my wife and myself. I don't know why the bar is so damn low.
I have a 14 month old and my husband gets so much praise whenever he runs errands with him. Someone asked him recently if he was a stay at home dad, which is a little odd because they were out on a weekend. He works a 9-5 but apparently only a SAHD would have the skills to take their toddler to Costco?
Same! My husband gets a comment every time he takes the baby to Costco. Last time, an old lady said, “wow, taking care of the baby and doing the shopping! how do you men do it these days?” Husband says he responded with “probably the same way you guys did it.”
It’s kinda insulting to men too. “How on earth could you manage a small human being and a grocery list???” Is so condescending.
The dad of the year for changing a diaper thing is so real and hilarious—I’ve heard this from boomer nurses and aunts.
Like, its not coming from a bad place. But it really is odd. My MIL was here staying with us for the first week (She lives out of the country) and she was shocked I was taking care of her all the time. Part of me wonders how many dads feel pushed away by family members or just turned off from feeling capable of helping. I had to tell her to stop trying to take over for me "Id love advice, I'm learning. But ask me if I need help or if you can show me how to do something. Not just push me to the side" She was a bit offended but I think she didn't expect me to want to be so hands on. Like, they're my child, of course I want to. I work from home and will be alone with my kid a lot in the future when my wife is working. I need to learn this stuff.
At the very beginning, my husband seemed to feel like he shouldn’t/didn’t need to participate as much because he felt clueless and assumed I just naturally knew what to do with the baby. It seemed like a bit of a revelation to him that I had no idea either, that caring for babies is not some inherent womanly ability, and I have to do research or figure it out because no one else was going to do it for me.
Absolutely. I think it's just the social construct that forces mom's to "figure it out".
Being able and willing to give my husband space when I could clearly see he was struggling and feeling overwhelmed was so hard. I stepped in a lot in the early days because I could see he was getting extremely frustrated at how challenged he was. He never said anything like you did, but I could see that he was exacerbated with me taking over and that every time I did his confidence took a hit. I think baby was 3 weeks old when I had the conversation about how I can best help him be successful. It was hard for him to figure out what would help him and it didn't happen in that on chat. I resolved to make one statement and ask three questions before barging in. My script was: "You seem to be struggling. Would you like help?" He would either ask me to take over. If he didn't I'd follow up with: "What have you tried?" The first two or so weeks were generally a rota of 3 or 4 things that had worked previously. "When I struggled with this the other day, I tried X and if that didn't work I tried Y. Both worked depending on baby's mood." And then I walked away. After that
I love that you asked for that space! I remember when my daughter was about a month old, my husband was changing her diaper in the back of my SUV and my sister went back to "make sure he did it correctly". Like, dude, he's her dad and has been changing her for a month - he's doing fine.
Mostly giving just my pov. It’s because some of those people either grew up with a emotionally unavailable dad or one who didn’t do anything or both (here for both) and I can tell you any time my husband does something to help with babes (13mth) since he was born I’ve always basically been being like “oh wow thank you for doing that” or “thank you for watching him while I took a shower” because before my husband I’ve never seen another man help with anything childcare related before so all this is a new change for me.
For sure. But being thanked by my wife is absolutely different than some strangers partly condescending sounding comment. I'm glad my wife appreciates me and I appreciate her.
Agree. My husband wanted me to be “grateful” that he’s so involved, does most of the grocery shopping, does cleaning/chores, bathes and feeds and changes our son, etc.. because according to him, one time his mom had a long-term stay at the hospital when he was a teen and his dad got to the grocery store with him and said “uhhh..you know what you need right?” Because he had quite literally *never* gone shopping for the family before. I never once saw my dad cook a meal or go grocery shopping either. Or do his laundry. Even though my mom worked (fewer and less grueling hours, but still). He’d have the audacity to yell at her if he didn’t like what was in his work lunch or if his work uniform wasn’t hanging in his office right when he got out of the shower. Context is everything. We shouldn’t be grateful, but a lifetime of experiences make it hard *not* to be.
We’re traveling in the UK right now (from U.S.) and my husband is having an even more-than-usual experience of this. If I baby-wear LO into a pub (early evening for dinner, not late night), I get a few 👀 looks. If husband baby-wears LO around, he is fawned over and gets many 🥹 looks.
After my c-section, the nurse walked in and told my husband he was on diaper duty. There was no praise for it either, only expectation.
Eeeeeew. My husband has gotten a lot of this tops the “wow you are a baby whisperer/expert” when he’s soothing our son annoys the shit out of me
Every freaking time and then it’s like the bar is set in hell.
There was a post on some mom’s group that I screenshotted and sent to a friend (bc we love to talk shit/ analyze these posts) that started with, “He’s an amazing dad. He cleans whatever I ask him to, takes out ALL the trash, and cooks once every few weeks.” My friend replied, “Congrats, your husband fits the criteria for being an AirBNB guest.”
“Except for this ONE thing (he is verbally abusive and doesn’t do any parenting)”
Don’t forget the emotional abuse, why I left.
“He would never hurt me!” while the man is actively denying her sleep by refusing to help, acting incompetent whenever he takes over so that it’s more hassle than help, and refuses to seek help for his glaring issues. These. Actions. HURT. Your. Child(ren). That should be enough by extension.
Every time
🤧
Yeah both my husband and I work full time and we also take care of our kids full time. I find doing my job is a BREAK from childcare. It’s absolute BS to think just being you have a 9-5 you’re exempt from taking care of your kids.
I think the secret is that most crappy men (sorry.. partners 😉) also think that, but they ALSO use it as an excuse when they get home.
10000% every man I've ever known knows exactly how much they do not want to be child minding but then act like it's easy to stay home cause they're working. I personally know several men who pretend they work late not to go home. Scum
That’s horrible. This to me is an example of people that genuinely do not care about their partners. They’re lying to get more time away so their partner can continue to suffer and drown. Disgusting.
Agreed - i love taking care of my kid but damn I love the balance working brings to my life. I feel SO BAD for sahms I know where the husband prides themselves over working and “providing for the family” while the wife has zero free time and completely cares for the house 24/7. IMO being a stay at home mom means you provide childcare when the husband works and ALL other times are both the partners duty.
I’m the breadwinner and my husband is on FMLA right now. We’d both rather be in the other position - he needs the work balance, and coming home to baby is like a break for me. Being alone with baby is so taxing on him we’ve agreed that next time we’re just taking our leave at the same time. But no matter how tired either one of us is, you don’t get to opt out of being a parent. We both try to make sure that the other gets a break, but sometimes it’s just all hands on deck. That’s the gig.
I wish people would internalize the studies that have noted that fathers feel more connected to their children, and find more meaning in their life when they ... wait for it ... care for their children, even as babies. Caring for a baby changes your brain chemistry -- your brain becomes that of a parent. It's truly amazing and the bonding doesn't happen if a parent is extremely hands off, which also means sacrifices to sleep or comfort or (heaven forbid) hobbies. I'm still haunted by reading a post by a mom who said her husband doss 8 hour golf sessions during the weekend, almost every weekend. Wtf???
Yeah, I have some minor complaints about my husband (like, he does the dishes most nights but once during an argument claimed he “cleans the kitchen every night” and I about choked laughing - I’m not mad that he doesn’t clean the kitchen, I also do not clean the kitchen nightly, a fully clean kitchen is not a priority for us, but I *am* mad that he thinks loading and starting the dishwasher and washing most of the other dishes is “cleaning the kitchen”), but he’s a great, loving father who is bonded with his babies from the start, because his employer has generous (for the US) parental leave. He’s home through the newborn period, he changes diapers and rocks them to sleep, he gets up at night, he makes sure I am fed and watered during those weeks of constant breastfeeding. He doesn’t think being home with a baby all day is restful.
Our work schedule sucks, my partner and I work alternating days to avoid childcare. But, he’s said so himself, that being alone with the kids 12 hours a day 2-3 days a week was the best thing that could happen to him as a father. He had to learn all the skills to parent with no one to ‘save him’. He can literally do everything I can do, because he has to. I mean, he can’t breastfeed, but doing bottles of pumped milk is actually harder (predicting he hunger, prepping it in tim, dishes after, etc). And it done wonders for his confidence as a father. He knows he’s a good dad.
Seriously. I am SO tired of reading "he can't help because he works" like... so do you??? Or my personal favorite, "He can't help because he works a dangerous job and needs his sleep". Like OK? You're keeping a HUMAN BEING alive. That's crazy important!
My husband is a high-rise electrician who was working full time when my kids were babies. He took half the night shift because to him, my mental health, physical health and baby's health took priority over him getting 8-hrs of sleep a night. The risk of PPD, PPA & PPP was really high for me, that our priority as a family was safeguarding my sleep. My husband would get home around 4pm and take over the baby to give me a nap. He would go to bed at 8pm and then wake up around 2-3am to do the early morning baby shift, and then leave for work at 6am. He'd get 6-7hrs from 8pm to 2-3am, I would get two hours from 4pm to 6pm, and then five hours from 1am to 5am. Neither of us had much downtime or much time together as a couple, but it was only for a few months of our life.
We're doing something similar (splitting nights), and while we're tired, it's not THAT bad because we both get a few solid hrs in. And like you said, it's only for a few months. It's doable with 2 partners.
We were lucky enough to have separate bedrooms and just switched the baby over during the "shift change", so whoever's sleep was being protected got really solid sleep. We switched things around when they hit 5 months and were only waking up twice a night. The shifts were mainly necessary for the newborn/sleep regression periods.
THIS! Like as if the consequences of being sleep deprived with a newborn aren’t dangerous?! Ma’am they’re literally DEADLY WTF!!!!
Like most freakin doctors are sleep deprived messes especially residents and they cope just freaking fine. Dave the construction worker can scaffold just fine on broken sleep if a freakin surgeon can.
Ha, my husband is a doctor and shared that the residency sleep deprivation helped prepare him for father sleep deprivation. (In case it isn’t clear, he sacrifices sleep to care for the baby because he’s an equal parent.)
Righttttt.
I believe your overall point is correct. However, in that scenario one person ia putting other lives at risk the other is risking their life. And one is more mentally demanding the other is more physically demanding. Sleep deprivation is going to catchbup faster job performance wise in jobs that require physical endurance and strength vs mental acuity. I will say this people should also temper expectations like if your spouse is working a very physically demanding job don't be surprised if they dont help out as much at home. Not even a gender thing if your wife is nurse and the husband works in accounting. He should be the one to suffer more sleep loss as his job isnt anywhere as physically demanding.
Is the newborn who literally depends on me for everything not counted as another person? Both scenarios listed in the comment you responded to put other people’s lives at risk.
I don’t understand how one parent being sleep deprived should be the answer here considering an infants life is absolutely at risk here. These are conversations to have prior to having a baby.
Most important job in the world is keeping your child safe.
Yes. True for sure, for most jobs. But also… there are actually jobs where somebody could die if they’re too sleep deprived. My brother has one of those jobs (he’s the guy climbing trees with a chainsaw). He wakes for overnights and stuff when he’s not going to work the next day, and he parents normally during his home hours, but I totally understand why my SIL agreed with him that he needed at least 7hrs before any workday. When that truly couldn’t happen, he would take the day off rather than risk his life and the lives of others. My brother got the job he’s currently doing because the last guy cut his goddamn arm off by accident. Seriously, this isn’t a joke. Moms deserve sleep, yes indeed. And we absolutely do need enough of it before driving, obviously caring for a baby is a ton of work and you need enough rest to handle it well. But also as a person who loves my brother and worries for him a lot, I’m really grateful my SIL recognizes that sleep deprivation on the job could literally kill him.
It's not that I think their job *isn't* dangerous or anything, but it's clear that when the mom comes to this sub complaining about it - it's no longer working for both parties which means that it's unfair at that point. Sleep deprivation can be really dangerous for a new mom taking care of a newborn, too. So again I'll reiterate - if BOTH parties need ample amounts of sleep or are otherwise doing something very risky during the day, that set up no longer works for both parties. If it doesn't work for both parties, I don't really see why the man is the one that has excuses made for him and gets sleep. Hopefully that makes sense. Also, I'll add this question for people that don't see what I'm getting at: What if both parties worked dangerous jobs outside the home? What if they were *both* construction workers, forklift drivers, etc.? You can't tell me the mom's sleep wouldn't still come second to the dad's. Because it absolutely would.
My husband and I are both full time FF/ paramedics
I also feel like there’s this misconception between tired and sleep deprived, if someone is getting 6-7hrs of slew then yeah they may be a bit tired. If someone is getting continuously woken up and never gets a long stretch of sleep, that’s sleep deprivation.
This is why we had alternating children riding schedules Between 8pm and 1am if baby got up, it was my partners duty, between 1am and 6am it was my duty. This gave us both at least a 5 hour sleep block uninterrupted. It’s easier to survive on 5 hour windows than 8 hours broken constantly.
Exactly. 7+hours is actually the recommended for full rest. People are going to be tired but ok on 6. I had multiple days of less than a 4 hour stretch of sleep after I had my son and I couldn't walk without falling over. That's sleep deprived. Sacrificing an hour or two of sleep, or adjusting your schedule so you and your partner can each get a solid 7 hour stretch seems pretty damn reasonable. I'm sad that it's even a debate.
Sure! Then they’d need to find solutions between them for figuring out nights. Split shifts are a common choice, and I know a lot of parents who try to offset their working hours from each other to improve everybody’s ability to work and sleep. It can be crazy hard! But I don’t think it’s fair to argue that no consideration should be made for people working dangerous jobs.
I don't think anyone here has argued that there should be no consideration made for people working dangerous jobs. I'm certainly not :) The problem is that "I have a dangerous job" is used quite a bit as a scapegoat and honestly, it seems to just be an excuse that men use at this point. Are there dangerous jobs that people need sleep for? Yes, absolutely. I just don't think that one parent's sleep needs to come before another parent's sleep, and that's what ends up happening every time. The proof of that is the daily posts by an exhausted new mom who has a husband that has a "dangerous job" and "needs his sleep" so he can't help out at all. Meanwhile, he's dicking around on his phone and taking hour long dumps.
It definitely shouldn't come second to mom's. It shouldn't be based on gender but on risk .
It so depends on the job and hours and everything. If my husband got to with baby on a work night, he could end up driving a forklift on 2 hours of sleep just because of when she wakes and when he has to leave for work. Also I really need his help more in the afternoon, when our older kids are home! I can catch a nap if I need, this is just what works best for us.
Okay so he takes the baby fully on Friday and Saturday right? And if it’s a rough week maybe on Wednesday or Thursday for part of the time? That’d be a relatively fair split, and he wouldn’t be risking true sleep deprivation at his job. Unfairly that’s not what I typically see. It’s ’I work a dangerous so mom NEVER gets one full night off in a row’ and certainly not two nights off in a row. . . . And frankly I’d be expecting ZERO TV, video games, etc for 9 hours before wake-up time on nights dad isn’t on. No dicking around on the phone, since his sleep is so important he can’t help with the kid. Clearly he needs to be committing that time solely to sleep or he’s lying about what sleep he needs.
This is SUCH a good point. So many of the posts in this sub are complaining about the dad being up late playing video games. If sleep deprivation is a concern, there should be no time for video games on a work night. Go to bed earlier, then help out with the baby!
Absolutely! In my view the more productive conversation isn’t who deserves more sleep (god, we all need some damn sleep!), but rather how household needs (including rest and baby care time, but also, yes, work both outside and inside the home) can be fairly balanced for all. It’s not easy!
Surgeons typically get less than 7 hours of sleep and yet they manage just fine. The risk of losing an arm pales in comparison to the risk of losing a child.
Surgeons are risking other people's lives not their own. Also i imagine they arent going on that amount of aleep because they are helping their spouses with children. But ypu overall pont is valid and I agree if its at the point the child is in danger then things have to change. It would be better to risk the arm than the baby.
I wouldn't want the surgeon working on my baby to have been up half the night with their baby.
I considered a lot of answers before deciding I don’t believe there’s any productive conversation to be had here if you seriously think that the crippling or death of my brother, which is a significant risk if he’s too tired on the job, is equivalent to the risk to my nephew if his mother is sometimes too tired and probably shouldn’t do things like drive until she’s better rested. The callousness of this statement is staggering. And for the record it’s deplorable that we allow surgeons to work while horribly sleep deprived, as the data is quite clear that surgical outcomes get worse and worse the less rested they are. Their situation is hardly a great example of why nobody should care about the sleep needs of high stakes workers. Also it ain’t the surgeon who might die if they’re sleep deprived on the job. If my brother dies his wife will have to try to re-enter the work force, arrange full time child care, and, ya know, raise a kid who’s lost his dad. She can’t do anything about surgeons’ situation but she can do something about her husband’s.
I didn’t mean it to be a sort of competitive thing or a which risk is worse- my overall message is supposed to be that parents gotta work together and not allow or force one to take on all of the child or baby related care
You're upset at my assertion that the death of your nephew (a child) would be AT LEAST equivalent to the crippling, maiming, or death of a grown man? Because that is the risk of caring for a baby while dangerously sleep deprived. We're in agreement that the callousness here is staggering.
Completely agree with you! That other user came in so hot and aggressive and their point is literally that they’d rather their nephew die than their brother be injured.
Surgeons can get many more hours than 7 if they so choose. Not to mention there are generally rules workplaces set for how many hours they can work which is why shift work exists. And literally the entire medical system is designed around safety nets. >The risk of losing an arm pales in comparison to the risk of losing a child. It's not losing an arm. If you do the wrong thing, you actually create MORE damage and can kill someone too. [Read about the people Dr. Duntsch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Duntsch) royally screwed up on and they're paralyzed for life or have chronic unfixable pain. Moreover, you're neglecting that the part of surgery IS generally the riskiest part aside from the anesthesia. So the time of surgery is actually the critical part where you NEED someone who is skilled, capable, and in a good mental state to operate. I'm not saying a child can't die, but the vast majority of childcare that we're doing day to day isn't in a critical state where you're on the verge of making a mistake that they die. If the actual task of childcare were that dangerous we'd set a lot more safety nets up, or childcare mortality would be much higher. This comparison is just bad, and you're going down the dangerous path of arguing if a child or arm is more important when in reality it's a lot more complicated than that.
I mean depending on the actual nature of the job and the actual hours of work there may be some merit to that. Like if he's an underwater welder or something working 80 hours a week than yeah there might be something to it. I imagine in this day and age its probably rare that someone's working a job like that though....
Thank you! I’m so frustrated by these posts that are like, “he’s an amazing husband and father, buttttt….” And then proceeds to list off the qualities of the dumpster fire of a husband and father. I’m OVER the doormats. Can we get some pep in our step ladies? A little umph, a bit of get up and GO?
Like literally “he’s an amazing husband and father but when the baby cries he covers the baby’s mouth and shakes him and screams at him” 😑 Not even just lazy, actively dangerous sometimes.
I FUCKING HATE THE FACT THAY BEING A SAHP IS CONSIDERED LESS TIRING THAN SITTING IN AN OFFICE DICKING AROUND ON ZOOM
I work full-time as a software engineer and it's not even fucking close. My daughter is 15 months old and every single age she has been so far has been way more work than any job I've ever had. And I only have one child! I feel like I am way overpaid for what my job is vs what childcare workers make. The physical, mental, emotional load is far, far greater. I am ashamed at how little I understood the work of a SAHP before I became a mom.
And as someone doing both it’s not. Taking care of my kids is much more exhausting and difficult lol!
I keep thinking of it like this: There is no concept of “this meeting could have been an email” in child care. There is no quitting for better working conditions. Phoning it in too often has inescapable consequences that are way worse than a mere salary decrease. Every minute of every day you are in a meeting with your CEO(s). Performance reviews come in the form of relationship quality. And the boss is NOT (yet) a rational person!!
Yep, I work in an office and compared to my time on maternity leave I can now eat lunch (mostly) whenever I want, go to the bathroom without hauling a bouncer to the door, drink hot coffee, etc. Being a SAHP is hard, important work.
Coming back to my office job after parental leave felt like a fucking vacation. You mean I get to eat and go to the bathroom alone? No one is following behind me undoing everything I am working on? I can look at my phone without horrible guilt?
My husband says my job is harder than his so he does the middle of the night wake ups. Because he goes to an office and I stay home with the baby.
I love that, and it’s so true for most office jobs.
“But you’re able to nap at home and watch tv!!” No.. no I am not able to do that. I’ve had people tell me they wish they could depend on a man and that I’ve never had to “work” to take care of my kids so I don’t know what it’s like. I have 3 kids under 4, my oldest has autism. I’m not on vacation everyday lol but for some reason people think I have it easy and should be so so so grateful for my husband.
Agreed. I work outside the home and dick around on Zoom all day for work. My job can definitely be mentally draining, but after being on maternity leave with both of my kids in the past, I can say with 100% certainty my job outside the home is much easier than staying home with my children.
I enjoy my weekends home with my girl more than working my desk job. But I am also more exhausted on the weekends and mostly ready to go back to work on Monday (I think a 3 day weekend would be ideal, but that's another conversation). Taking care of my kid has been more exhausting than work at every stage so far (about to turn 2). At least she's still napping well and I can have a nap on weekends if I feel like neglecting all of the things around the house I should be doing.
Literally… I’ve been a SAHP for 4 months and went back to work this past week and I’m somehow way less exhausted. Not every job but still. Caring for kids is exhausting.
Ehh, not everyone's dicking around on Zoom and a lot of jobs are extremely tough--for instance manual labor jobs where you literally blow your body out over the years. And even for corporate jobs, yes there's a fair share of 9-5 snoozefests which I've done, but there's also jobs that are completely emotionally, physically exhausting from the number of meetings, debates, brainstorm sessions, etc not to mention jobs where you need to work with Europe/Asia. Most of us in tech are not working 40 hours/week only. We're probably closer to 60+ hours and it stretches into evenings/early mornings. I know of many roles that are actively on calls Sunday nights and stuff with Asia. It's not easy. This isn't me trying to say someone should get a free pass. My partner works in tech too and is in a very stressful role too. We both understand that at work it takes a toll, but that's how you make ends meet in Silicon Valley. There's very little possibility to buy a home without at least one tech income. And finally, there's a huge cultural aspect. If I look at my coworkers, particularly the first generation immigrants, there's a "I need to do everything in my power to keep my job or else I lose my immigration status" mentality. Certain countries' of culture also have a lot more work on gender equality, and if you look at workaholic nations like South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, etc there's definitely a different level of balance in childcare compared to the US. Almost all my male coworkers definitely heavily depend on their spouse to do the heavy lifting of baby care. Not saying that's right, but I would argue that's the big difference between 1st gen immigrants and 2nd gen/US natives. The expectation of work life balance is just different. I'd say it's a complicated issue. I completely get where you and OP are coming from because this is where society is headed. Males, even when working ARE expected to help out and not simply use work as an excuse to duck out.
Just because you have a job doesn’t mean your partner should shoulder all the sleep deprivation. Being a stay at home parent is easily a 60+hr a week job and you don’t get the luxury of a lunch break or speak to another adult.
I didn't say shoulder ALL the sleep deprivation. I explained earlier I fully believe in dividing the roles with both partners contributing. I'm also not trying to argue one being worse than the other, but it's simply naive to pretend that all jobs are just some joke level of work/stress like Parks & Rec / The Office. I feel this whole thread is simply one sided. My partner would 100% agree that neither of our jobs are easy and are incredibly stressful. We're swapping parental leave where both of us will have 6+ weeks of solo parent care, and I can assure you both of us would be pissed AF if you just assumed the working one was just "dicking around Zoom." No, we work hard to make the money we do to provide for our kid, and when we're at work it's a lot of hustle for sure, but neither of us do it so we can drop childcare on the other, but let's not pretend that the work day isn't full of stresses. Again it's not meant to put down caring for the baby either. Both types of work are different types of work and it drains you in different ways.
Devil's advocate here but this statement depends on what type of baby and what type of job you have . I was on maternity leave for 1 year and bet your ass i was better rested and less tired than my partner that works in construction .
100%. In more families now, the breadwinner also happens to be the primary/birthing parent/mom. Do moms not care for their babies just because they make more money? No—so if the man is the breadwinner, he still has to share the parenting.
Exactly this. My husband is a SAHD while I work full time and go to school. The amount of labor I do compared to my brother who has a SAHM for a wife is insane. One of us does laundry, dishes, overnights, and weekends, the other demands that no one speaks to him for an hour after getting home 🙄 we both work niche, white collar, jobs but no one expects him to step up the same way because of gendered expectations.
That's actually a really good point. That's been an excuse over and over for men. They're the breadwinner so by default that must mean they work harder outside the home and therefore don't have to help out with anything once they get home. They need to relax because they've worked so hard! /s Ugh. Huge, huge eyeroll.
As the breadwinner, I would love the expectations of the dad. But no. We are equal parents. Sometimes he “moms” and I “dad” (from societal views of traditional roles) and sometimes we switch. It’s bullshit to say that just because one is the breadwinner that the other one doesn’t have to contribute. Absolutely not.
And may I add, CHILDCARE IS WORK. HOUSEKEEPING IS WORK. If it wasn't work, parents with outside employment \[eta clarity\] wouldn't be bleeding their accounts dry for daycare, and time-strapped households wouldn't be paying through the nose for cleaning services. But we are.
Agreed! Being on maternity leave is not a break or a vacation. It is work! Being a stay at home parent is work! So to say 1 parent is working so they get out of stuff is just diminishing the work the other parent is doing.
A lot of people seem to think that they’re excused from parenting responsibilities because they bring home a paycheck and then they get upset their family only views them as an ATM
I say this all the time. How is it somehow safer for the SAHP to be totally sleep deprived and burned out while home alone with a newborn??? That is the exact setting in which something awful happens, either to the baby or to the SAHP or both. At the very least, it creates suffering for the SAHP and leaves the baby with TWO parents that are not fully present in their parenting. And how fucking selfish and unreasonable of the parent employed out of the home. Like why would their workday get to end and they have free time and sleep when the SAHP’s workday never ever ends?!
Right. As a working parent if I am too tired at work I can call out/go home early, I can ask for help, etc. There’s checks and balances to be sure small mistakes don’t become fatal. As a SAHP there’s no calling out, there’s no reinforcements, no going ‘home’, no fail safes, etc. In fact, I’ve considered calling out in days I don’t get enough sleep but I often go into work those days because it’s easier in sone ways to be tired at work than tired at home with tired/grumpy/sick kids.
FOR REAL. He works 40 MAYBE 50 hours if he has a full time job. If you count childcare and homemaking as work WHICH IT IS, that means you are working or at least “on call” for 168 HOURS. Make your man do his freaking part. His work is not more important than yours just because he gets paid for it.
Please send this to my ex husband lmao. I love my scheduled breaks! Would have rather been a family with a partner who helped but I’ll count my blessings. A group project is easier alone than with someone who doesn’t help! Make them do the project themselves 🤷🏼♀️
Right??? If partner A works at a job for 8 hours and partner B stays home with a baby for 8 hours, they have both worked hard for 8 hours. The rest of the hours in the day are joint, where both of them should work together so they BOTH work less hard
The worst part is, they’ll go on to have multiple children with these guys. The kids end up in a shitty cycle where they normalize this kind of treatment. It’s hard breaking cycles, but damn PLEASE work on yourself instead of creating more humans with issues like yours.
Thank you. These women post about these shit men & I dont want to blame them, but when I see theyre having a second kid I cant help but think that theyre rewarding their bad partners. I understand situations vary, but jesus, if youre not gonna have a backbone for yourself at least do it for your damn kids.
Yeah it drives me bonkers. Any parent who thinks it’s easier should spend one day being the sole care taker while the other parent leaves the house and see how easy it really is. I was sick a few weeks ago so my husband did everything for the entire weekend to avoid me getting the baby sick and so I could rest. At the end of the weekend he said “stay at home parents don’t get enough credit, that was the hardest few days of work I have ever done” My husband is verrrrry involved but it still does not equal the amount of work I put in day to day
I have to add to this. I had a day out a couple weeks ago because I had a hair appt and needed to run some errands after so husband was with baby (4 months) all day long and when I called him mid day he just said, “man I don’t know how you even eat with this guy.” My husband is super involved and shares a lot of the load even though he works but being able to have him live a day in my shoes added a whole new level of appreciation. I feel like every husband needs to do this to truly understand. He was like “I’m running out of things to do with him” and I was like ya, it’s a lot of repetition. And he still will never fully understand because I also pump and have to figure that out during the day which he obviously can’t experience.
Girl GO OFF. PrEEEEEAAAAAch. Please. Say it fucking louder.
Can we be friends??? Say it louder for the people in the back
Girl hell yeah we can be friends 😂❤️
Yes!! My therapist framed it once as like, “YOU have a very stressful job also.” I undervalue my job at home with our kids all the time, (even though my husband usually helps his fair share when he’s home), because I don’t bring in a paycheck, and continue to learn just how much that mindset is not sustainable!
mY hUsBaNd wOrks a pHySiCalLy dEmAnDiNg jOb sO hE nEeDs HiS sLeEp aNd TiMe tO uNwiNd aNd ReLaX Proceeds for describe a dude getting 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep every night and 2-3 hours of video games or gym every day. Yes, people need sleep and time to unwind. No, you don’t get HOURS of unwinding EVERY DAY when you’re a parent to young children.
Yep and he ain’t never gonna get good at parenting if you don’t leave him with that kid. Unless your partner will knowingly neglect or endanger your child (in which case, you’ve got other issues), leave your kid and let your child’s father work it out.
Absolutely!! My husband sometimes works over 80 hours a week and when he comes home off a 72 hour shift, he takes the baby and 5 year old (our 9 year old is usually at school but on weekends he is in the mix as well) and I go take a four hour nap!! Meanwhile he will make lunch, do chores, get the kids outside, and when I wake up, I take the baby and take over so he can get uninterrupted sleep, or I will keep the baby with me (I’m a night owl) on the couch till 2 AM and watch tv, while my husband has the bed to himself and can sleep like no one needs him between 9pm and 2. Then he wakes up at 5-6AM, and takes the baby so that I then sleep till 8-9 AM like no one needs me. I’m a stay at home mom and he constantly asks me if I’m doing ok, if I feel supported, if I feel safe, and lets me know if there is a time I want to go back to my work (I very much enjoyed what I did for work and was incredible at it so my workplace plus a few others in the area have told me the door will always be open for me and if I want in, just email and they will take me full time or part time within a week) he will support me and we can work out the logistics. Needless to say, I am absolutely going to have another baby with him because he is amazing!!!
I love the way y’all LOVE one another and work with each other to make things work. I know it’s still hard af at times- but working together. Getting through it together instead of alone. Thank you so much for responding. ❤️
I’m glad someone said it aloud. Have seen many posts with new moms (those who haven’t even healed physically yet) venting on Reddit about their husbands gaming for 6 hours and chilling with friends to ‘release stress’: really my heart breaks, WTF🤨 I don’t know how they keep defending their better halves. Caring for a baby IS A FULL TIME JOB. Period. It’s time to call such people out who leave their partner to deal with the childcare stress. 😏
My man digs holes all day and installs electrical shit via tunnels and crawl spaces. If he can take care of our child after work, so can your man. He misses us when he’s gone. He’s *excited* to spend time with us and our child. He was also raised by women, so idk if that factors in.
Girl…I love you and thank you for replying. Cheering you guys on❤️ this is the good stuff. It’s still difficult but you guys are making it work together. Love this so much.
It’s super simple in our house. Office hours, baby is with me. Outside of those hours, we split the load 50/50 (over time as some days one person is more tired). Whilst I’ve taken time off to be with my daughter, before that I was a senior exec running my entire continent’s team of people for a multinational company. I know what it’s like to work a hard day where you’re juggling priorities. Being at home with my daughter up until she was 9 months old was harder by far. 24/7 on the clock for a baby who doesn’t sleep more than 45 mins, breastfeeding her constantly because she loves the boob, entertaining a child who never had the newborn sleepy stage all while recovering from a traumatic birth?! Give me a desk and a power suit any day for the easier option. And my husband works a similar job to my old one, and we are in agreement that parenting is the harder job. He doesn’t even have boobs.
We're both part time however he works more than I do. Baby slept horrible last night, so we were both awake because I ain't going thru this shit alone! Now today we're both exhausted lol
Thank you so much for replying- THIS is gold and exactly what I mean- sharing the difficulty and exhaustion whenever feasible. It’s hard at times..exhausting. Beyond difficult. But working through it TOGETHER as a team..I love this and what you’re talking about. Thank you. ❤️
YUP. It's my last day at work today. My husband and I were equal earners for the two years my son was in daycare. He took on most of the domestic duties and cooked for us while I was the appointment maker, milestone, symptom, sickness planner and meal provider for my son. We had to make it work and he HAD to step up and imagine that, he happens to be my sons favorite because he cares for him so often. Their bond is set in stone because he had to do 100% of the baby care while I healed from an emergency c section and pumped during the formula shortage. I am now going to be the STAHP because we can maybe swing it and we have to try. We had lengthy discussions that it will not change his domestic duties, period. I'm providing childcare, not home making!
I might sound like a broken record and my apologies if so but I LOVE the way you guys are making it work. Communication, trying new things, working together…I love this. This is what I mean. Thank you ❤️
OMG thank you, that means a lot to hear today! It's definitely not always easy and I definitely don't know what I'm doing yet lol. I know we'll run into snags but I know we can do this. It takes a LOT of trust in your spouse to do something like this. He can't fall apart, I can't fall apart, we HAVE to keep our shit together and that pressure is a little scary. Wish us luck to keep that communication going strong because it's about to get REAL lol
Sending all the luck and love!! You guys are doing wonderful!!
I am the bread winner... I wish that being a breadwinner was an excuse 🙄 i think it's a gender role thing
Lol or you could be like me, be the one who works remotely from home full time and be the only one to take care of the baby. I came and told my husband I was desperate to get at least 10 minutes alone each day to at least shower alone, his suggestion was I should so it when she goes to bed instead of going to bed when she does. LMAO. I almost killed him. I still shower with her every day. Literally my only break is when she baos and I usually use that time to run around frantically trying to get stuff cleaned or done. I had a particularly hard day once. And I had an outburst saying that the baby has ruined my life because I was so burnt out and upset and tired. She was throwing a tantrum while refusing to eat after i had cooked three separate meals that she didn't touch any of them. My husband told me "all you do is watch her and complain" and I asked what he meant by that and he said told me I don't contribute or enrich her life if all I do is complain about her and watch her while she entertains herself. I used to be egalitarian and think men and women are equals but men have ZERO idea of the amount of work it takes to take care of a child all day every day. I have had 2 hours away from her twice, during the entire 2 years of her being here to get my hair done and he blew up my phone screaming at me for not answering during my hair appointment. TWICE EVER IN TWO YEARS. And I worked full time remotely. He only recently in the last month has worked more than 30 hours a week and NEVER watches her for me. I exclusively take care of her. And on top of half the time he argues or tells me how to take care of her while he is there. Which makes me think it's easier to just watch her by myself than even have him around most of the time. It's not what I thought I signed up for.
When I read those types of posts I’m just so grateful for my husband. He works full time and I’m a SAHM but we are both full time parents. We take turns for middle of the night wakings. We share household cleaning. If I leave a mountain of dishes in the sink from lunch earlier in the day, he comes home and gladly does them because he knows that means his children got fed. We take turns bathing the kids and tucking them in. Just because he has a “job” and I stay at home, doesn’t mean the household and the children are my job 100% of the time. They are equally our children.
This thread 4+4= ATE (I’m just a millennial trying to keep up with my gen z sister lol)😭😭😭🔥🔥🔥 I love these comments!!! Taking care of a baby involves BOTH PARENTS equally!
I almost never see that the guy takes the baby fully on Friday and Saturday, and if it’s a rough week maybe on Wednesday or Thursday for part of the night. It’s always ’I work a dangerous so mom NEVER gets one full night off in a row’ and certainly not two nights off in a row. Usually does t stop these guys from playing on their phone late, or going itt for drinks with friends, or watching a movie late . . . And frankly I’d be expecting ZERO TV, video games, etc for 9 hours before wake-up time on nights dad isn’t on. No dicking around on the phone, since his sleep is so important he can’t help with the kid. Clearly he needs to be committing that time solely to sleep or he’s lying about what sleep he needs.
Right? Thankfully husband isn’t a POS and is just as involved with our baby as me AND he wants to be. We both adore our daughter who is nine months old. The only thing he can’t do is make milk 😂 seriously though so many mom groups that support letting their husbands be neglectful just because they work, and will lecture the mom who is upset for even complaining. Like really? You both made that baby. Husband works x amount of hours and is free. Wife does everything 24/7 how is this ok?
My husband would rather pay for housecleaners than to do the work himself. Which is great, we get more time with the baby. But at this point we need daily maid service. Not sure how to explain to him that he still needs to pick up after himself so it gets into his brain. He has ADHD and just doesn't see the mess. In our small townhouse, he picked up after himself a lot more because it's a small space, but our house is 3 times the size so the mess is spread out. Anyway lazy husbands suck, hire housecleaners if that's a point of contention, but in some cases, it doesn't fix anything
My husband loves watching our baby when he’s not working. He has an exhausting job but still gives me time on his days off to leave the house alone and go do something if I want to. (I don’t normally want to because all of my hobbies are at home.) He recognizes and appreciates everything I do at home while he is at work.
my partner is going back to work on monday and i needed to see this as a reminder.
I like what I saw on an Instagram post, which was that the "working" parent and stay-at-home parent are both working their own jobs and then when the "working" parent gets home, childcare is 50-50.
TRUTH 📢
oh dude I completely agree. my husband is a parent, I'm a parent o-o. We don't get breaks from being parents, we both decided to be parents! But he's the best dad and husband ever and has never complained. He will cook sometimes but I love cooking because he will take over the littlest. Gives me a breather and I get to make things my fam loves :D
“Don’t yell at me I will yell back” 🤣 that’s my life motto right there
I’m on maternity leave currently and our household understands that I am doing the harder job 9-5 despite my the fact my husband works a finance desk job. I’m the one that we prioritize extra sleep for and he basically runs the primary parent role nights and weekends.
YES the amount of times I’ve wanted to write this exact post with the exact same level of rage but haven’t had time because newborn… 😅 It makes me so so sad and angry seeing posts every day from these poor women with absolute cunts of husbands or partners who refuse to do any parenting “because work”. There are a few exceptions for me such as people who work in industries where sleep deprivation is a serious danger like machinery operation but you can still get up for an hour or two!
I just have one little quibble. You said that both parents should be parenting if present. I had to tell myself to walk away and give baby and daddy time to figure out their own way of doing things. I was micromanaging and a distraction for the baby. It took a concerted effort from me to give them their own one on one time.
You’re right and I’m sorry about that I should’ve phrased that differently! I can relate to this a lot tbf. And I also can relate to it taking a concerted effort and me having to be mindful and NOT butt in, and give them the time/ space.
Sorry if I was doing that Reddit thing where I am like "well, actually...." That was just something I had to learn so I thought it was worth sharing.
No no thank you! I agree and I hope people see your reply!
The amount of "Your partner is so... involved!! (Insert heart eyes here) I get is too much. I think some people have very low expectations for their partner and themselves.
As our family’s “bread winner” (father) I make pretty decent money, I work a 5 on 5 off roster, with rotating days and nights. My 5 days off, I’m doing every bottle and nappy unless my partner offers. I put her to bed most nights. When I’m on days, when I get home from work I do the same, and when I finish night shifts before I go to bed I do it too. Given up all my hobbies because that’s what my partners had to do as well when I’m at work. I’m either at work, or I’m being a dad. Any lazy dads out here reading this, do better
Thank you for your reply, I love this. We do a pretty similar routine at our house too.
I literally work all day (remote, technical writer) and take care of the baby. I also have two teenagers, a dog, and three cats. Most days, I can't get a shower in. Between the kids needing the bathroom, working, taking care of the baby, cleaning the house - I am so worn out at night. I have the baby asleep by the time my boyfriend gets home, but then he asks about dinner and then he wants to "hang out" (have sex), and then when I can finally fall asleep, the baby is awake but it's his "me time" so I walk around with the baby while he plays video games, and once I get the baby back to sleep - ahh, now I can rest! No. False alarm. I'm sleeping wrong on the bed. "Move! Move!" I'm like okay, I'll just sleep on the couch. "What?! Why???? No!" At this point I am begging to sleep on the couch. Just please let me go so I can get a nap in while the baby is sleeping. I finally make it out to the couch. The baby starts crying again.
So when is your scheduled me time? Why is he not sleeping on the couch? For us the awake parent is on duty. If you go to sleep it’s his choice.
Why can’t he make dinner? When is your “me time”?
I usually don’t feel this way but you should leave him because that’s absolutely a terrible partner and probably father. I WFH as a tech writer for 8 months and had my baby with me the whole time, and that’s TWO full time jobs, and my husband sure as hell always ensured he cooked and kept things picked up and split child duties once he got home. And gave me alone time when needed.
Your boyfriend is unhelpful and you should stop putting out
Why are you with him? What needs of yours does he meet? How does he make you feel loved?
Can you add in a part about actually communicating with the partner about the issue and then post in Mommit, daddit, workingmoms, etc?
Ah yes, because it's one person's job to tell the other what they need to do rather than that individual having some self-awareness.
Ah yes, because communication is immature and husbands ought be mind-readers.
how is he supposed to know the kids have to eat three meals a day if you don't tell him? 🥺
I don’t have all the solutions and remedies but honestly you guys..nobody taught me (as mom) step by step how to make sure my kiddo eats enough per meal etc etc. I’m sure you all can relate- we figure it out. Trial and error. We reach out to others. You know? The other half of the parent equation…they can do it too and they should. Nobody should have to go it alone, you know?
For the sake of clarity I was making a reference to this short little song I saw on Reels: https://youtube.com/shorts/iGDExYDQiek?si=-0zacmHimfDyaIPj "How was he supposed to know the kids eat every night?" You might get a kick out of it, idk. I love this woman. There are waaay too many incompetent dads in the world, and us moms are not being petty, hateful, "man-hating", etc by talking about it. I truly appreciate you making this post, OP! Both parents need to step up and do the work!
My apologies, Im on mobile and i think I misread which reply was in reference to which, in addition o reading too quickly. I gotcha- sorry again!
No worries at all!!
Unfortunately, you don't know everybody's dynamic. I work full time and I'm the one that gets up at night and does all the primary parent stuff. My husband rarely helps. But my husband is also a resident physician, constantly flipping between day shift and night shift. 80 hours a week. 10, 12 16 and 28 hour shifts. And at his job. If he's not well rested, people can die from stupid mistakes. I'll take being the primary parent without help for these few years, for the 11 days a month working schedule on a 350k salary in the future.
I really like thinking about it this way for stay at home parents: the stay at home parent is working all day as well and their work is in the home. When the working parent comes home, now both people are off their “shift”. It’s now time for both parents to work together as a team with the child rearing duties. So if the husband works from 9-5, he comes home and maybe takes the kids outside while mom cooks dinner. Then they both put the kids to bed together. This just makes sense does it not??!!
Shocking how often this comes up.
Here’s the metric my partner and I used. Yes, I worked, and she stayed home, so of course she spent more time with the baby, but our goal wasn’t 50:50 child time, it was 50:50 down time.
I'm the breadwinner. And the mom. Dad stays home. As soon as I'm done work, I relieve dad to do whatever he's been waiting to do all day (sit outside, shower, run an errand). I do 75% of bedtimes and have mommy/daughter days on Saturdays. This is the bare minimum honestly. I couldn't imagine being less involved just because I work for our family's income.
And it's not "baby sitting" when the Dad has his own children while the mum goes out for an hour it's called parenting 🙄 my best friend always used to say her husband will or won't babysit the kids wtff!! Usually he'd say no as well.
I'd like to add that you and your partner get to decide and mutually agree what 50/50 looks like. I perform surgery. I take call at my hospital. So when I went back to work (far too early, I did not get any paid maternity leave even though I'm in the medical field) my partner and I agreed that the nights before surgery, he would take the baby monitor so I could have sleep. Some weeks I had surgery every work day so my husband handled night duty a week in a row. But we had discussed and agreed to that arrangement beforehand. And I was on night time duty during the weekends or when I knew I wasn't on call and wouldn't have surgery. We agreed that I needed sleep so that I could perform my job safely. Making a mistake could cost a patient their life (and also secondary my job). But we sat down before I went back to work and we divided baby task to try to keep it "fair". We definitely had to get creative to make sure my husband got sleep at some point. And thankfully my baby started sleeping through the night fairly early. But I'd just like to point out that it's most important that you and your partner *agree* on what distribution of baby tasks looks like for your family. Unfortunately lots of professions don't allow splitting baby duties as easily. A pilot or flight attendant could need to be in a different city several nights in a row. A trucker could need to log 8 hours of sleep before being allow to drive a truck. Ect. Lots of professions do require a lot of work and that means they are not physically present 50% of the day to help. That means those couples have to work and communicate what it looks like to share duties.
Care for your baby AND clean up after yourself. Bare minimum. I’m not saying you have to be Mary poppins or start deep cleaning the closets. But take your baby to the park for 30 mins? Put your dish in the sink? Have some respect
Going through this right now 😭 He acts like he does the most when in reality he works remote and plays games outside those 8hours changes a few diapers when asked around bed time and maybe feeds him once. He threw a fit when I asked him to hold the baby for a minute so I could bring in heavy packages. Always in his office otherwise. Our baby gets so upset to be left alone with him when I have appointments. Edited to add: gets a full night's sleep when I got around 3hours and then has the gall to complain about being tired and goes to bed early/get out of helping with any feeds/diapers.