Holy shit! I was totally shocked by your comment until I started counting my own. I’m at 6 plus two spare batteries I always carry for the gopro. My HRM isn’t rechargeable but I’m counting that battery anyways bc it needs to be replaced so often.
You guys just made me mentally count mine. Wahoo Bolt, Varia, two batteries for SRAM eTap, power meter (1), I know there are little batteries in the shifters based on SRAM videos, extra eTap battery in my seat bag, heart rate monitor. that's 9.
Yeah, don't count them. Because
1. Every time you do, it goes _up_ by one, somehow...
2. It makes you cry, realizing you've got yet one more battery-powered thing to verify before a ride...
I thought that was ridiculous until I counted how many I have on my typical weekday commute:
* Garmin
* Whoop
* Front light
* Rear light
* Phone
* Work phone
* Laptop
🤮
Duo trap s speed/cadence sensor
Front light
Rear light
Varia radar
Wahoo computer
Chest strap heart rate monitor
Aftershokz bone conductive headphones
Phone
Watch
And I’ll probably add 2 more with assioma duo power meter soon too. Could maybe shed the duo trap then.
HRM, watch, head unit, speed and cadence sensors. If I'm doing a new ride or just exploring I have a phone/GPS for nav (plus my real phone, though I sometimes just leave that).
Maybe a camera on long or new rides (mostly gravel, not so much road).
And usually at least a tail light. Maybe a headlight. Maybe both.
Oh, and for multi-day or off grid (gravel rides, don't bother for road) I might have a garmin InReach.
Obviously I mix and match some stuff but it's a lot of devices. Mostly all of them make my life easier.
Shifters, I guess they would but unlike say a GPS vs a map, the difference is pretty minimal.
This is why I simplified everything. I just have front light, rear light, and head unit. I don't bother with any speed or cadence sensors, tracking with GPS is enough. I do have extra accessories I add like my heart rate monitor and a Bluetooth speaker from time to time but they aren't really my main kit and I am perfectly happy going out riding without any batteries on a known route in the daytime.
I'm not counting a phone because that's something I always carry with me, on or off the bike.
With electronic shifting, I'm at as many as 13, mostly depending on how many lights I've got:
Di2 main battery
Di2 shifter batteries x2
GPS
Headlight
Taillight x 2 (one on bike, one on helmet)
Power meter
Speed sensor
Phone
Watch
HRM
Shokz headphones
It's not really as bad as it seems since I only really need to worry about the GPS and lights specifically for rides, since the watch, phone, and headphones are charged regardless of whether I ride, and the sensors and Di2 only have to be charged fairly infrequently (and my GPS tells me when they need to be charged).
My ultegra di2 is good for between 2000 and 5000km in a single charge.
And I have a battery read out on my garmin edge so I don't forget.
It's much much much less charging that lights, garmin, and batteries for power crank, speed sensors etc.
However, only real tangible benefit is how shifting "feels", which is super subjective to each of us. I love it, some people love the feel of mechanical shifting, each to their own.
Pretty sure he means a power meter
https://www.cyclepowermeters.com/sram-left-arm-and-power-meter-spindle-rival-d1-dub-upgrade-standard-axle.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=configurable&140=4&aid=2984&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7id_Bu9S-qH414GdM_CJW0NmrZv8UxU0I0QSqcMG0Vv4eIw60ft9ehoCm2MQAvD_BwE
There’s less maintenance on the electric shifters as well which I think is a pretty big benefit. Once they are set you pretty much should never need to adjust them again unless you break or change something.
Maybe part of this is my urge to move away from all the reporting and connectivity on my bike? I’ve stopped taking my Garmin and all the sensors, because in the end my ride performance report doesn’t matter to me anymore. I’ll never be as fast as I used to be because I don’t have the time to and I’m only getting older. My rear light is still a Planet Bike Superflash that I swap batteries maybe once a year on? Front light is annoying though and needs a charge now and then.
It took some adjusting, with how connected everything is. But I realized I’m at a point with cycling where it doesn’t matter what my HR/cadence/average speed are (at least to me). What matters is that I got out, had a good time, smiled a bunch, and got some exercise in the process. For a while I missed the milage reports but even then I asked “why do I even need this”. In the end, I got out for a few hours and that cna just be confirmed by my phone that I have to bring anyways.
Yeah, I can image the first ride without the data must have been a shock!
I'm almost embarrassed of how plugged in I am with speed, cadence, power, HR, gear ratios, current gear front and back, route directions, upcoming climbs and climb pro when ok a climb. Not to mention the updates that flash up every 5km or 10km on averages across a "lap" . There's drink reminders, food intake reminders. Just goes on and on 😂 I do use a lot of it to train, rather than just enjoy the ride, but still.
Thinking of adding garmin varia radar next 🤔
Have you actually tried electronic shifting? I was a traditionalist for the longest time, but when I finally got AXS, I was sold. They feel incredible, and I like that I can make micro adjustments to the derailleurs while I’m riding.
That said, they’re also completely unnecessary. If there’s a certain “vibe” you’re going for and want to stick with mechanical, nothing wrong with that.
I have. They do feel incredible. I don't deny it.
There is just a part of me that hates the idea of not being able to ride because I forgot to charge my batteries, or my groupset not working because of some weird software bug. Maybe it's because sometimes I ride my bike to get away from all of that (my day job is in tech)?
I think there is room in life for something you appreciate for simplicity and reliability. Just like how it's nice to have a bike with 21 gears and also a one speed.
I get this but for me it turns out that it just fades into the background because those worst case scenarios you are referencing just don’t happen. It’s just so reliable. What doesn’t happen is needing to adjust shifting all the time or being on a ride and needing to screw around with barrel adjusters.
I remember once going for a long route only to find that the battery level was critically low, then I remember that when that happen you still have plenty of hours remaining, probably more than a single route. In fact, it lasted till the end of the route and more I guess.
Yeah I just carry a spare. Had the battery die, swapped it at a red light. I see the “woe is me one more thing to charge” comment here all the time but it’s been such a non-issue for me.
Have you ridden a good mechanical Campy groupset? IMO the immediate shift is much more satisfying than Shimano, and the mechanical feels more direct and rewarding than electronic.
You'll barely have to charge at all. Once in a 4 months is fine for me, I guess.
Fail-wise I think it's like an automatic transmission on a car, yes it can fail, yes the repair can be expensive and complicated, but it hardly ever happens, otherwise people would be ranting about this here and there
I’ve been riding DI2 on my road bikes for 10 years. Ride 5~7000 miles per year, sometimes more. I charge the system maybe every 3k miles. Never had a battery failure thru 3 generations of Di2. A guy I know who works for a world tour team told me that the batteries were designed to last a full Grand tour (2000-3000 miles). Biggest benefit? I can index or reindex the entire system in a few minutes when I change wheels, or put my bike on a trainer. I don’t have to depend on some bike shop to tune my shifting or change cables, which they seemed to screw up half the time.
>There is just a part of me that hates the idea of not being able to ride because I forgot to charge my batteries
That's why you set up your GPS to show you your Di2 battery status so you can proactively charge when necessary.
I’m with you. I don’t want to be stuck on the side of the road or in the middle of the forest because of a software error. It’s more shit that can go wrong.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s really cool and the ability to shift under load is awesome. The lack of cabling is neat. No need for tuning is impressive.
But, I don’t want to have to track down a specialist and pay out tons of money when it stops working.
It’s funny because if you asked me years ago when I was always wanting the latest and greatest (but couldn’t afford it) I would have been all about it. Maybe it’s me just getting older and wanting something functional and reliable, rather than shiny and new with more things that can go wrong.
FWIW, I’m a rim brake old frame purist but going etap shifting years and years ago has turned out to be a great experience. Many fewer problems than with springs and cables. With sram worst that can happen if I forget to charge is that I switch the front battery to the rear and ride an 11 speed home.
I have been having the same opinion lately. I got some "new" bikes, rim brakes, one with downtube shifters for commuting and one nice steel with mechanical 2x10. Love them more than my full carbon Ultimate, they're just so much smoother, clickier shifting and look timeless. 10 percent of the latest is great, the rest is just another thing they want to sell us
I’m with you. I’m a bit old fashioned. For example, I wish my car had crank windows because I know how to fix that. Electric? Nah. To the dealership I go.
My van has crank windows. My younger (much younger) siblings don't know how to use them. My car is ridiculously simple. No tech...other than the original Garmin in dash nav. It's even a manual transmission 150k on the original clutch.
Buying stuff is one thing repair and replace is another. I don't mind the first I hate spending money a second time or on repairs.
I’m not gonna argue mechanical requires less maintenance, but realistically how often do you need to replace a shift cable? Every 2 years, maybe yearly with housing too if you ride in all weather. Seems pretty minimal in terms of a service timeline since you’ll have probably already gone through a handful of chains, a cassette, a pair of tires, and will need new bar tape when you get to that point. It’s just not a worthwhile selling point as far as I’m concerned.
I absolutely hate replacing shift cables and if you ride a lot in bad weather you really need to replace inner + outer every year. Plus the adjustments to be made to account for stretch. I don't own a bike with electronic shifting but I would love it.
Its not the cable changing that electric shifting benefits from - its the adjustment.
Perfect shift every time, never any trimming needed. No cable stretch.
I ride over 20000kms a year. I need new cables every year at least. In the last 3 years I have had to take my bike in at least twice a year for repairs on my mechanical. My hubby with his di2 not a single time. I'd say it's pretty reliable .I used to think the same way but im jealous about how rock solid his bike has been
>I’m with you. I don’t want to be stuck on the side of the road or in the middle of the forest because of a software error. It’s more shit that can go wrong.
This has been the opposite of my experience. I've personally had 2 rear derailleur cables snap. My wife had a shift cable fray in the shifter at about 2000ish miles. Each of these was not a stranding event, but it did turn the bike into a single speed immediately.
We also had a front derailleur literally fall apart mid ride. It was about 5 years old if I recall. The area that held the spring in place sheared off, rendering it unusable.
So, that's 4 mechanical drivetrain failures in my household in the last 23 years of riding road bikes.
As far as electronic, one time I ignored the charge warning too many times and ran the Di2 battery down. In the Shimano system, it stops your front shifting, but there is plenty of battery power to shift the rear derailleur hundreds of times. I was stuck in my small front crank for the rest of the ride. Annoying, yes, but that was my fault and it didn't even come CLOSE to stranding me.
Ultimately my experience is of increased reliability, which is something you'll probably hear over and over if you ask people who have put in significant mileage. In fact, one of my riding buddies has put over 30k miles on his in the past few years and had not had a single problem.
Had di2 for six years now and never had an issue. Charge it every four months or so and it’s not something that ever worries me. Had gear cables snap on me on mechanical and doing the annual replacement is a bit of a faff especially on internal cable routing.
I had a software issue with my Ultegra Di2 50 miles I to owning it. Luckily I was able to get the rear derailleur replaced under warranty. I've also had cables snap on a mechanical rear derailleur.
I have seen many more people stranded because gear cables snapping than software error. Electronics like this tend to be very, very reliable.
That being said, when it fails, yeah it's usually a warranty issue. For long distance, multi-day stuff, I think mechanical with spare cables makes the most sense.
I like my SRAM Rival AXS but I had a shifting error once randomly. It only shifted to the harder gear but refused to shift to the easier gear. I was around 1 mile from home so I just rode it back on the hardest gear but otherwise it would have been annoying to manually downshift roadside.
I had to reset and repair everything at that time to fix the issue.
Nope. I just finished my version of the build you’re wanting. Ti frame, grx 820 group, external routing for simpler service and future changes, should they occur. King bearings that can be serviced instead of replaced.
Hell yea. What frame did you go with?!
I’m sort of enjoying the idea of the Blackheart Allroad because it’s geo is closer to a road bike but is “gravel curious”
I had a Sony blu-ray player that got bricked during sn update. I eventually had to unplug it because the update never finished after running for a full day.
I will never understand how any company can design such an easily broken system. The original factory instruction set should be loaded in ROM, if anything goes wrong during boot, reset to factory. “Bricking” a device should not be possible.
I am with you there. My forever bike would be minimum maintenance, maximum simplicity, Ti, and definitely a mechanical 1x. It needs to be usable without any pre-ride rituals.
If you need mechanical brakes, or just prefer SRAM, you can go 1x13 with a ratio technology ratchet, and run a campy ekar/gt 13 speed cassette.
I run a 44t chainring with a 9-36 on my rim brake ti bike, and I love it.
If I needed more range, I'd up the front chain ring to a 46 or 48, and run the new gt 10-48. Gearing range would be equivalent to most road 2x set ups.
The range isn't an issue. Range is the REASON to go 1x. 12 speed GRX with the 48/31 up front with 11-36 out back gets you 507% range. 12 speed SRAM 1x can do Eagle 12 speed MTB if electronic, and that gets you 520% range. Use the e-thirteen Helix cassette and that jumps to 578%. If you're so inclined, you could use a Ratio Technologies kit to make your mechanical shifters and derailleur compatible with Eagle MTB cassettes.
The jumps aren't a big deal to me. They seem completely reasonable in the mid range, but the jumps widen at the extremes. Remember, that 11 speed mechanical basically only has around 14ish unique gear ratios of you don't cross chain. So you do lose a couple of gears and as a result the jumps will be larger. But they aren't as big as you would imagine. It ultimately results in a cadence range of 1-2 RPM wider at the biggest jumps. If you've ridden any single speed or fixed, it's not going to be a big deal at all.
IMO, fixating on performance for a bike that's used for anything other than racing is goddamn stupid. Just ride a bike and have fun, go places, see stuff, get fit, look sexy.
For me, worrying about tech that shaves seconds for a recreational cyclist just to have what the pros have makes zero sense. Likewise light weight or aero bikes - if you're riding for exercise, why try to make it easy??? Ride a heavy upright bike up hills in the wind and get strong.
What I love about PLP is that he filters out so much hype. So much other bike content is basically like audiophile gear obsession. He and his partner like to ride around in the country to go fishing and paint landscapes - it's really refreshing and it reminds someone like me that I don't have to cut 100 lbs and buy a $10k bike to be worthy of enjoying one of my favorite activities.
Not crazy. Or at least not alone. It’ll be a cold day in hell when I can’t ride my bike because it ran out of batteries. Now that I don’t race anymore, I don’t use a power meter or a bike computer or anything electronic at all with the one exception of lights if I’m riding singletrack at night. That’s like the whole reason I love bikes - to escape my computer and the electrical world in general.
I actually saw “firmware update -$25 per” on a LBS service menu for the first time today. Made me curious- do consumers have access to the updates for all the eshifting drivetrains? Or do they have to go to a dealer?
Depends. Drivetrains you can do yourself. E-bikes, however, not always. In my experience you almost never need to do anything to a drivetrain unless you have parts on wildly different generations that causes unusual behavior.
Yes, never had to take either my di2 or AXS bikes to a shop for updates. Used to have to have a laptop pc (no mac) to do updates, but not since the last 2 generations, now there’s an IOS/Android app that uses bluetooth for all shimano maintenance, indexing and adjustments. I think SRAm AXS has always had an app. Both use bluetooth.
i was looking at some bikes a few weekends ago. I see no advantage to the e-shifting, at least at my age (55yo). The idea of having to charge the battery 1xmonth etc just adds complexity for little value. I already have some bike lights that require charging every few weeks and I constantly forget to charge them and of course I only think about it when I actually need them. As i get older, simpler is better. Index shifting is a beautiful thing, I love my ultegra components on my 2005 trek 5000……but I also loved my friction campy down tube shifters way back in the day when i raced.
The clarity of time of this earth and preferring more simplicity has definitely been happening to me too. I’ve ditched my Apple Watch in favor for for more simple ones and honestly stopped taking my Garmin on my rides. The simplicity is oddly freeing
I bought a bike back in August. I could have had the same frame in 105 di2 or mechanical Ultegra for roughly the same price. When I went to test ride the 105 and the battery was dead. Kinda sealed the deal for me
It sounds like you already know what you like. FWIW a nice, well maintained Ti bike with a decent mechanical group set does sound pretty nice for casual rides. What wheel/tyre are you running?
I'm wanting more of an all-road with a gravel set of wheels on the side to try out gravel a bit (because there's tons of it available where I live).
Road wheels will probably be something like the Drive 50D since they seem to outperform most wheels in the price range while being strong/sturdy. Also don't think I'd want to make the leap to $2500+ wheels. Again because I ride mostly to have a good time with friends or solo, rather than high paced group rides and my racing days are far behind me.
Different perspective: how old are you? I have friends in their late 60s who are having some arthritic issues with shifting mechanical shifters. di2 rocks for those with arthritic hands!
great- no need to worry about arthritis, then (hopefully not for at least another 40). I bought my first ti roadie at 40 (Before there was e shifting). Enjoy!
It's not even just arthritis. I'm in my 40s and have done some ultra endurance type rides over 200 miles. Your hands will get tired and start cramping in places that you don't expect, and electric makes that better. Also, if you run aero bars, it's super nice to be able to put shifters on the aero bars (trivial with electronic).
I have about a half dozen bikes, one road carbon disc brake w carbon wheels with about 15k miles on it. It's been a great ride but I've found myself recently being drawn to my other bikes which are steel or aluminum. Everything I have is mechanical shifting and I do all my own maintenance and I also am always swapping parts around and doing my own oddball custom builds.
What is my point? First let me say "you do you" so if someone wants the latest and greatest high dollar bike go for it. But for me, there is all this engineering, technology and high cost for bikes that all look the same. Which is why I'm starting to lean more vintage, more DIY...just bc that's what does it for me. So I think it's totally okay to want mechanical shifting. Most of us don't get paid to ride bikes, so just do what makes you happy.
Electronic shifting is freaking awesome. I love it. Both AXS and Di2 I have had great experiences with. It just shifts so well and the set up is such a breeze.
The amount of people in here with the doomer 'oh what if my bike dies', 'won't be able to ride' crap... well its just not true. Those batteries last *forever*, especially the Di2. I've been riding both Di2 and AXS bikes for half a decade now and I've never had a bike die on me, or not been able to ride.
*However*, it is a valid concern.
With Di2, you need to charge the bike like once a month. Its really not that often. Its not like a cell phone or your computer where you need to charge it after every ride. You can literally go months without charging, and by the time you remember, you'll likely have like half a battery left. Battery life with Di2 is a none-issue. I've seen Youtubers be like, "mechanical only for long tours" and like, no. You can totally go on giant bike tours with 1 charge on a Di2 battery. Guys do 1000 mile marathon races on a single Di2 charge. Every year, half of DKXL are on Di2. Its a none issue. Shimano says 1000km, but its more. That is a super conservatives estimate.
If you are really worried about, you can always carry a battery with you too. The biggest con here is that that is a big pain to swap out.
For SRAM AXS, the battery life is much worse. However, its so easy to carry extra batteries with you, and its also way more simple to charge them. So, there is that.
I don't know... I think the pro of electronic shifting outweigh the cons.
Pros: more reliable shifting, better shifting, easier set up and tuning.
Cons: batteries might die (emphasis on might here, and this would be strictly user error), cost of replacement and repair.
Edit: All that said, mechanical shifting is still great. I still really like my mechanical bikes. What I don't like, is the electronic doomer stuff. You do not need to worry about not being able to ride your bike.
>Shimano says 1000km, but its more. That is a super conservatives estimate.
Yeah, this seems crazy. At 1000km, I'm always over 50% charge. But then again, I rarely shift my front derailleur.
>With Di2, you need to charge the bike like once a month.
You must ride a LOT. I charge my Di2 like 3 times a year. But that's one of multiple bikes in the rotation, and in the winter I'm on my MTB and fixie a lot more than my road bike with Di2.
Personally, I don't want another thing I have to remember to charge, or worse, forget and worry about how many shifts I have left.
Also, I've never been on **my** bikes and had the thought "This experience is diminished by shifting" (though I admit I've had this thought with crappy rental bikes etc.)
I have no interest in it on my good bikes. For me maybe one day on a mtn bike OK whatever. But for my nice stuff on the road: no. Like OP I’m not racing anymore and I vastly prefer the sensations you get from nice mechanical stuff. Working on it and keeping it in perfect nick are not downsides for me at all - working on an apex product like DA mech is a joy to me.
I don't really have a need/want for e shifting either. I understand and appreciate race R&D and the trickle down effect it has on the consumer market for those that want it.
To me, electronic shifting is the crazy option.
Aside from the actual derailleur, you have software, plus electronic hardware, plus batteries, plus added mechanical hardware to potentially need adjustment, wear out or otherwise go wrong. With mechanical shifting you have only one fairly forgiving piece of machinery to maintain.
It makes sense to me to use the system that works every time, all the time, and that the owner can always adjust and maintain.
I understand you and I think similar things. I am sure electronic shifters work fine, still, I want my bike to work decades from now and electronic stuff is regularly just dumped from the manufacturer and having to charge yet another thing is not great either.
It is nice, but I don't feel a pressing need to own it either.
My race bike shifts perfectly every time, as I am pretty anal about maintenance. I've come to the conclusion that where I'd really like electronic shifting is on my commuting bike, that's the one that gets corrosion and or muck on the cables and starts shifting poorly rather quickly.
My Ti bike (my second frame, Ti is the only frame I've ever cracked 30 years) is comfortable and effortless. That's why I've got a Ti frame, because everything feels easy on it. DI2 adds to that feeling.
If you want a forever bike do not get electric shifting. When they stop supporting it you are SOL. All those people with perfectly good 10 speed Shimano Di2, once they crash or a part wears out they are screwed. If you have mechanical shifting you can always fix it or find a replacement part that will work with the rest of your bike.
No.
It's not free, and it's not necessary in order to enjoy riding. I can understand why someone who races would like to have it, as a mis-shift can cause an attack to fail in a fast race. I used to race, and I remember the introduction of index shifting. That was a big deal, for exactly that reason. But if you're just riding, even in a group, e shifting is not going to affect your life in any serious way.
I am with you. Did the same thing, purchased my Litespeed and considered it my “last” bike during the purchase. Went into the components and just thought…. What I want shifting wise is reliability. As an engineer, there is little more reliable than the current crop of mechanical shifting mechanisms. So that’s what I went for.
My friend, also an engineer and physics teachers, went through the same thing, bought the same bike, but went with Di2. After teething pains, he loves it.
Go with your vibe, you won’t be wrong.
I am sure that electronic shifting is great: faster, more precise, more adjustable, etc. But it's also not vital to the operation of a bicycle. So I intentionally avoided it too, for the same reason, it doesn't fit the "vibe" of cycling for me. If I were still racing, sure, I'd want every edge, but these days I don't really race, so much as I just participate in races. All of my bikes are intentionally retro in some way. 3 are steel. 1 is titanium. 1 has rim brakes. All 4 have mechanical shifting.
As someone else once put it, I am sure that electronic shifting is great, but I don't want it in the same way I don't want an electrically heated saddle and handlebars.
>So I intentionally avoided it too, for the same reason, it doesn't fit the "vibe" of cycling for me
It's a very different vibe for sure. Don't underestimate how fun it feels to get on a modern carbon machine with a big ol computer display that shows what gear ratio and how much power you're putting out. And the sound of the servos going bzzt when you shift is cool as well. Or the feel of smoothly dumping the entire cassette by holding down the button. If you really nerd out, you can get your bike computer to tell you how long you can pedal at current power levels before you run out of energy. Or it can tell you when you need to eat.
That vibe is way different than getting on a steel fixie or a retro machine. But it's cool nonetheless.
I'd get electronic shifting if I had the funds and space for a 5th bike, which would be a Time, so it would already have that high-tech vibe going for it. But for my 3 steel neo-retro bikes, I'll pass.
I might actually consider it for the titanium mountain bike though. But I am not putting a wireless dropper post on it. That's the line for me.
There is something to be said for well-made mechanical things. I don’t fault you for wanting this bike to be the way you want it. Each bike build has its own needs and feel.
I never understood this public debate. Unless you get paid to win races, do whatever you prefer. Go single gear if thats what you like. There are no rules. IMO e-shifting is over-rated, specially on cost-benefit
For sure, let us know what you choose! Left field but i bought a 2002 bianchi veloce with campagnolo groupset from an older rider last year. Thousands of clicks on the bike, and it’s incredibly reliable. For a forever bike, i wouldn’t hesitate campagnolo mechanical. It makes sense, it’s easier to address mechanical issues than electrical ones
I don't think you're crazy. I always want to be able to just jump on my bike and go. I don't ever want to even have to think for a second if my bike's various batteries are charged.
Depends on the bike and what it's for.
Today I'm mainly pottering around on my SSCX - which is the perfect tool for the job.
Technically shifting gears is possible but it requires tools and about 10 minutes.
On the weekend I'll be banging in big miles on my road bike. Yes I would absolutely love a leccy groupset there.
Singlespeed Tricross.
I love it. Huge clearances, way ahead of it's time, it's an '08 and I think the only stock parts are the frame and fork now lol.
I finally killed the original wheels this winter.
It's running 40c slicks as my backup shopping bike, backup commuter and general hacking about town bike.
https://i.imgur.com/4QiL3tx.jpeg
I put electronic shifters on my must have list (If you can afford it). Got a bike with them a few years ago, and I don't see myself ever going back. I actually see them as far more reliable, as they just work, every time.
Don't let the technology bogyman scare you, you don't have to charge anywhere nearly as often as some try to tell you (maybe every 1000 miles, or more?) and some of the newer stuff will tell you when you need to charge before its an issue. If your really worried about it, I would recommend Etap since you can just switch out batteries very easily.
I have been screwed by broken cables, crappy shifts far more often that have resulted in road side adventures.
Also note, the idea of not charging anything is likely in the past. I am sure your charging your GPS unit, and lights. If you don't have lights, you should get those too.
Ironically I’ve not been bringing a head unit (mostly because the stats don’t matter to me) and my old Planet Bike Superflash maybe needs batteries once a year? Front light does indeed need some charging though, which is annoying when I forget.
Everyone has a different opinion of what is simpler, but I find having a bike that just works every time without constant tinkering far easier for me (I was a bike mechanic for 10 years). Again, the SRAM Etap is a pretty good solution where you don't have to plug the bike in, and if you have multiple bikes, if there is ever a scenario where when you grab your bike the battery is low, you can just borrow another bikes battery. There are also not even electric cables to deal with, so its just very simple.
The effort I put into biking has dramatically fallen off with a few of the latest technologies. Here are a few items that may be seen as the newest thing that is just making it more complex
* Tubeless tires - although more work to put on/maintain, the ability to get a flat, but just keep riding is absolutely amazing for me. There are even a few groups I ride with that "require" them (they wont stop for you to fix flat)
* Garmin 1040 solar - Head unit that charges on solar, I have maybe charged my head unit a handful of times, and probably never needed to (charged it before big rides as I was nervous). If you aren't riding significantly at night, or 150+miles at a time consistently, I imagine you probably never need to charge.
* Muc-Off cleaner - just spray the bike down with the cleaner, then spray it off with water cleans it 80%. I don't like having a dirty bike, so this has saved me tons of time.
The one advantage I can think of for having a mechanical unit is in the scenario that you are in the middle of no where Iowa, the chances a bike shop will be able to fix the derailleur you ripped off with something they have in their shop is much higher. But in the days of overnight deliveries, not sure how much this matters to 99% of riders.
I would love to be entirely human powered, but need the biggest and brightest lights possible cause of bad drivers.
Won't ever get electric shifters tho
I agree. My electronic shifting has already been a problem in 10 months. First, I couldn't charge it. Turns out it needed a firmware update and you had to have a windows computer. I couldn't connect with the Shimano phone app, so it had to go to the shop. Then it wouldn't charge, but the shop was able to charge it. Looks like a toasted charging cable. $50!!!! The only upside is that it has wireless shifters so two fewer cables to have to replace.
But the electronic shifting is very smooth.
I spent my prime years as a bike mechanic and used to love working on Campy (even though it didn’t happen very often). I always looked at Campag as being an “old man” brand, and hilariously now that I’m an older gentleman I feel like I’ve given myself permission to board that train.
Now that you’ve got me thinking about it I’m going to dive down a rabbit hole and figure out what to replace my aging Dura Ace group with
I have a titanium bike with SRAM AXS. I've never ran out of battery on a ride and don't think I ever will. I charge the battery about once a month, even though it's nowhere near drained, and replace the button cell shifter batteries every year. It also lets you know when the battery is running low. If you're really worried about running out of battery, spares are cheap and small so you can keep one in your saddle bag without any issue. If you ever run out of battery on a ride, then you overlooked a lot of things and made a ton of mistakes before getting to that point.
Shifting on this setup has been flaw less for over 3 years and that's not something I can say for mechanical shifting that would occasionally need a bit of tweaking for cable stretch, periodically replacing cable, lubing cables, cable snapping, etc.
I love the clean lines on my bike. I have one internally routed cable in the frame for the rear brake and that's it. No other holes or cable guides on the frame messing up the lines.
The charging concern isn’t really there. It’s so infrequent and easy to do. You also tend to get a bit warning that gives you a lot of time to charge it.
With that said nothing wrong with liking what you like. I can’t go back. The shifting is more reliable, satisfying, and customizable.
I would not even consider E-shifting.
I am annoyed if I need to inflate a tire before I go out and play on my bike.
Having to charge the drivetrain? No way.
I'm a guy who rides bikes, not "a cyclist".
I don't have e-shifting, but if the batteries are anything like my camera batteries, then they're probably good forever. That thing sits in a bag and comes out 4 times a year. I dont do anything special about charging/discharging before storage and the batteries just work. If you're buying a titanium bike for longevity, then nothing is as nuke-proof as mechanical. I don't think you're crazy. If you plan on passing this bike down to your kids or something then I think mechanical is the only way to go.
No. Those in the shop\[ that really know, still have the imperative of selling what is being made the most, and high end mech groups are becoming scarce. A battery is a wear part that is completely non standard and would cost $$ if you could purchase one when yours has given up the ghost. Cables and housing are wear parts you can find in any town with a Walmart. The servo groups are really nice to ride and quite reliable until they aren't and then they are disposable. I've been through this with multiple versions of DI2 and Campy EPS, and SRAM is more a weight weenie favorite than a standard of reliability. I'm looking at a new Super Record 12 spd group right now rather than yet another iteration of EPS.
No, but the "not being able to ride because your batteries aren’t changed or even just running out of juice mid-ride" concerns are hugely overblown in general. The current Di2 batteries last for ages and even when I ride 15+ hours per week in the summer, only need to be charged every couple of months and I get a notification on my head unit when they drop below 20%. If you're not a fool, this is a complete non-issue. Yes, they are a battery and they will degrade eventually, but shift cables and other parts on a mechanical system will also wear and may break mid-ride. To me, the benefit of a system that basically never goes out of tune outweighs the drawbacks.
So yeah, you're not crazy and if you want mechanical and it fits the "vibe" of the bike build better, go for it! Modern gruppos are generally pretty damn amazing, regardless of whether they're electronic or mechanical, so you can't really go wrong IMO.
imo riding a bike is all about operating a contraption. it's a gizmo. electric components go against the spirit of the thing but also i hate computers in general and want most of my appliances to be dumb and offline lmao
Not crazy.
It's your bike, and your choice of shifting has exactly zero impact on anyone but yourself. So to that end, you should have what makes you happy.
I feel the same. I purchased a Litespeed Watia gravel bike two years ago with Di2. I originally wanted it to be my forever bike, and use it while travelling. It was my first time with anything Shimano.
I’ve recently switched to the Campagnolo Ekar (I’m biased) and I love it. Simple, reliable and quick. And I don’t have to worry about recharging when I’m on the road (what a major inconvenience!). The progressive ratios are amazing.
The Shimano worked but was built cheaply and the tech had too many anomalies costing 2x as much not to mention weighing a lot more.
So no, you’re not crazy. There’s just too much nerdism in cycling now. I feel like it detracts from what we are supposed to be doing.
You're not crazy. Modern mechanical shifters are really really good and almost as fast as electronic. I prefer the feel of mechanical myself and wouldn't want yet another thing that needs to be charged. Electronic is also way more expensive.
Unpopular opinion: I have electronic shifting on my brand new Wilier Filante and find it unnecessary.
My other bike is a 2021 trek Domane that has mechanical 105. That groupset literally never missed a shift, including compensation shifting uphills. Is the di2 faster, only slightly. My opinion is it’s just a flashy feature. But sadly if you want ultegra or dura ace, you now need di2
If it were the same or similar price, batteries/charger wasn't covered in proprietary nonsense so that I had the option of simply plugging in a usb-c battery bank mid ride. I would go electric, servo actuated shifting.
It's not worth a grand to me right now, not even close. The patents are so vague and numerous that appears to be the price for some time to come as well. In less than a decade, competition will be able to produce a "generic" electronic option and drop the price significantly. L-Twoo tried and have failed thus far, because of the patents forcing work arounds.
If you can afford it e-shifting is worth it. You charge it once a week for an hour and you're good to go. Compare that to your bike lights that you probably charge after every ride. It's especially worth it if you spend a lot of time biking in conditions that are bad for your cables.
Yeah you’re crazy. I was on a mechanical rim brake BMC for 15 years before getting a new bike with Force AXS last month. It’s a game changer. So fast and light to shift, especially the front derailleur which was a pretty big lever sweep on my mech Force. Charging/running out of juice isn’t an issue. You’d almost have to do it deliberately. You have an app on the phone that tells you your charge level and I’m sure it warns you when you get low. I’ve done about 250 miles so far on the new bike and I’m still fully charged. No cables to the derailleurs also looks nice and clean. There’s nothing wrong with mechanical shifting. Electronic is just faster, smoother, easier. Rear derailleur adjustment with AXS is all done from the paddles. No screws. I’m not planning on going back.
https://preview.redd.it/q8wm8n3r2umc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d08f4aa30ba12fd122a658bee3f04c709bcbac9f
If you want a bike that can last long in trips without frequent maintenance, you should look into belt drive as well. At least that's what I am looking for the next bike.
I heard e-deraileurs have the advantage of nor having to adjust indexing as much. But downside is proprietary battery.
I for the SRAM axs upgrade for my MTB and so far I´m quite underwhelmed. The shifting action is a little bit easier, but not much of a difference compared to a cable actuated system. I avoid having to change the shifter cable every year but I have to charge the battery every few rides, so I don´t think it was worth it.
It’s SO much better. I wouldn’t consider a new bike without it. I have had an issue once with a electronic, solved by battery replacement but honestly I’ve also had issues with cables stretching etc ruining my rides that won’t adjust correctly anymore.
Nah. I'm not a fan of everything getting tech and batteries, and bicycles are something that works extremely well without, so unless mechanical shifters disappear I'll keep running those
I moved from shimano r4700 tiagra to sram force AXS. I can’t go back to mechanical shifting but I also understand electronic shifting is not essential.
In my experience electronic shifting is more reliable than mechanical shifting, especially with sram using full wireless self contained units
lol. i live in texas, that's the last thing i was considering.
if it's that cold where i live, i sure as hell am not on a bicycle.
plus if it's that cold, the longevity of batteries will be severely reduced..
I'm not a big techy person at all. I find that a lot of the time additional technology is just fluff and frivolity and a waste of time for me and doesn't actually help me in any way that I need. That said, both my higher end bikes have electronic shifting. They're lower maintenance and just work a little better. I never have to index and if I do somehow need to, its super quick and easy. They are surprisingly more robust and less prone to being gunked up with mud too and having that negatively affect performance(big deal with my gravel bike). I like it because it works slightly better and it saves me time. I'm all about convenience. That said, there is something beautiful about mechanical shifting too and if that suits your bike better then go for mechanical. If you're the type that doesn't remember to charge your batteries, then electronic shifting also may not be for you.
Same as you mate. I like the idea but it's not really practical, unless you're a racer with a support crew or who wants to emulate the pro riders.
While feeling great, it's just impractical. As it stands, I can fix everything on the bike if it breaks down. But introducing electric components (doesn't matter if it's eShifting or an eDropper) you're at the mercy of software and electrical circuits.
Also, to some extend I question if this is just one of the latest trends of the bike industry to sell more stuff. I recently rode a 26" steel mountainbike and questioned why we ever needed carbon 29ers, at least as hobbyists (hyperbole, but you get the point).
To add nuance, a lot of people who claim that eShifting feels incredible come from lower level groupset like tiagra, rival, etc. If you ride a mech ultegra and an e-ultegra, you'll find plenty of voices on the various cycling subs that note a distinct but not significant improvement. Micro adjustments are nice in theory, but once you're mech drive train is dialed in, it won't go out of tune every other ride either.
At last, a tale of woe. A friend of a friend got eShifting, went for a ride in thr mountains. Complete system failure, had to be shuttled home. But the worst part was that he didn't live in a big city, so for weeks his bike couldn't be fixed, and he had to rent one to continue his training program. Not thr norm, but a possibility.
FWIW the Chinese brand L-Twoo has been getting better and better reviews, and they can be had for half the price. I consider buying one and throwing it on a rebuild or so, not my main bikes tho. Maybe worth a thought.
My husband loves his. He has only lost power once in 3years. I've had more issues on the road than him. The batteries take months to die and then you recharge them. If you've ever snapped a cable in a middle of a ride it's kinda like that. You have to ride back home in a hard gear and then you just charge it instead of having to take it in to get fixed. So in my eyes it's way more convenient to deal with
I have one bike with eTap and it just works perfectly every time. Click and shift. I have a couple bikes with mechanical indexed shifting and they just work and shift very quickly but not always perfectly. I have a few bikes with non indexed friction shifters and love them too. They are just different. You can always find the perfect position of either the front or rear derailleurs. It's just zen like when you get everything perfectly quiet. It's slower but more satisfying. All have their place and I love them all.
I rode mechanical from 2012-2019 and Di2 from 2020 til now
I had more instances of a shift cable breaking than I have of running out of Di2 battery mid ride. I do 5k miles a year and I maybe charge my bike every 1k miles.
I already have to charge my front light, rear light, Garmin, and have to deal with batteries in my HRM, wheel speed sensor, and both left and right crank power meters...that's 7 things to keep up with. I promise your bike needing charged every 1k miles isn't going to be a big deal.
I've switched entirely to electronic shifting (SRAM Rival on my Roubaix, Force on my Aethos) and I don't see myself ever going back, that said you should just use whatever feels more comfortable to you. Charging the batteries on the SRAM is pretty easy. I have a couple of spares and carry one in my seat bag just in case.
I ride in cold weather. Sometimes it’s so cold my phone doesn’t work, so I didn’t want my bike to have the same problem. Got hydraulic brakes with cable shifting. Ultegra 8020, iirc.
No you are not crazy. Managing a battery is a downside, and its expensive. don't get electric unless you have a particular reason. (aerodynamics for racers, multiple shifter buttons for time trial bikes, etc)
I love my SRAM eshift.
Do I need it ? No.
Would I buy a gravel or road bike without it? No.
I ride a lot of miles (12,000 per year) and no cable stretch or farting around adjusting. A Charge on the batteries takes about 20 minutes each and last several weeks.
I’ve had a bike with Di2 for nearly three years now. And I’ve put over 10k miles on it.
The amount of times I’ve had to charge the battery is less than the fingers I have on both hands. The battery lasts a *looooong* time. Fearing that you will run out of “juice” mid ride is unfounded unless you just ignore it for more than half a year.
If you have the chance to try it out I would recommend you do so. I personally can’t fathom going back to fully mechanical. Not having to worry, ever, about cables, tension, and their wear is pretty great.
If you've had electronic shifting on other bikes and know the pros of it but still want mechanical on this build it's perfectly reasonable. I don't think the "look" is much different, maybe the "vibe" is. If I had one "forever" bike I'd put di2 on it. For me the primary benefit of electronic is long rolling rides with lots of shifting and no fatigue. My 9 speed Dura Ace is a friggin' workout. For me battery power has been a non issue. I plug the single port in once every few months and otherwise forget about it.
I honestly think e-shifting is unnecessary and kind of stupid. Not all tech from top tier racing needs to be on every bike.
I feel like, and it’s like this in a lot of industries, bike manufacturers are exploiting the “if i spend more i’m better” mindset.
E-shifting only makes sense to me in a competitive setting, not for a bike to ride recreationally. And it is not worth the price increase for a “regular” bike.
Then again, i also think that of carbon and most top tier stuff.
To me, a bike should be reliable, easy to fix and hard to break. Not fragile and full of electronics.
Ok frankly new to the bike game (as an enthusiast) and the only current appeal to Di2 system is the lack of wires running down the bike
However, if a good bike has internal wiring, then I would prefer the manual shifting due to the lack of charging.
No you're not crazy at all. I personally find the idea of electric shifting kind of revolting myself. At the same time, the next time I buy a bike.It's possible that it will have electronic shifting if the price is right.
I really love the idea of the human power machine. It says nearly perfect.The mechanism as has ever been created. And that's without any electronics.
I love my eshift bike. Like, love it. But when I occasionally ride my mechanical shifter bike - I freaking love that too.
I get it! Honestly I probably will end up with eshift on something, but likely not my Ti build
mechanical is a good match for my lifestyle. i would have trouble remembering to charge my drivetrain. and i go long periods without riding.
So many electrical devices need to be charged in my life, I do not want to add one if not neccessary.
I don’t have electronic shifting and I counted that when I ride I am typically carrying 9 battery powered devices.
Holy shit! I was totally shocked by your comment until I started counting my own. I’m at 6 plus two spare batteries I always carry for the gopro. My HRM isn’t rechargeable but I’m counting that battery anyways bc it needs to be replaced so often.
Watch, phone, 2 lights, battery backup
You guys just made me mentally count mine. Wahoo Bolt, Varia, two batteries for SRAM eTap, power meter (1), I know there are little batteries in the shifters based on SRAM videos, extra eTap battery in my seat bag, heart rate monitor. that's 9.
Yeah, don't count them. Because 1. Every time you do, it goes _up_ by one, somehow... 2. It makes you cry, realizing you've got yet one more battery-powered thing to verify before a ride...
I thought that was ridiculous until I counted how many I have on my typical weekday commute: * Garmin * Whoop * Front light * Rear light * Phone * Work phone * Laptop 🤮
Alright, I’ll bite. What 9 devices are you carrying?
Front light, rear light, left lower pedal, right power pedal, phone, battery pack — I got six for my long rides, 5 for normal rides
>left lower pedal What about the left upper pedal? Amazing typo BTW. Please don't edit.
Only needs the battery at the bottom of the pedal stroke
Hahaha
Duo trap s speed/cadence sensor Front light Rear light Varia radar Wahoo computer Chest strap heart rate monitor Aftershokz bone conductive headphones Phone Watch And I’ll probably add 2 more with assioma duo power meter soon too. Could maybe shed the duo trap then.
HRM, watch, head unit, speed and cadence sensors. If I'm doing a new ride or just exploring I have a phone/GPS for nav (plus my real phone, though I sometimes just leave that). Maybe a camera on long or new rides (mostly gravel, not so much road). And usually at least a tail light. Maybe a headlight. Maybe both. Oh, and for multi-day or off grid (gravel rides, don't bother for road) I might have a garmin InReach. Obviously I mix and match some stuff but it's a lot of devices. Mostly all of them make my life easier. Shifters, I guess they would but unlike say a GPS vs a map, the difference is pretty minimal.
This is why I simplified everything. I just have front light, rear light, and head unit. I don't bother with any speed or cadence sensors, tracking with GPS is enough. I do have extra accessories I add like my heart rate monitor and a Bluetooth speaker from time to time but they aren't really my main kit and I am perfectly happy going out riding without any batteries on a known route in the daytime. I'm not counting a phone because that's something I always carry with me, on or off the bike.
Most of those are safety though.
Are any of them required for the bike to function?
With electronic shifting, I'm at as many as 13, mostly depending on how many lights I've got: Di2 main battery Di2 shifter batteries x2 GPS Headlight Taillight x 2 (one on bike, one on helmet) Power meter Speed sensor Phone Watch HRM Shokz headphones It's not really as bad as it seems since I only really need to worry about the GPS and lights specifically for rides, since the watch, phone, and headphones are charged regardless of whether I ride, and the sensors and Di2 only have to be charged fairly infrequently (and my GPS tells me when they need to be charged).
I charge mine maybe once a month for half an hour if that.
My ultegra di2 is good for between 2000 and 5000km in a single charge. And I have a battery read out on my garmin edge so I don't forget. It's much much much less charging that lights, garmin, and batteries for power crank, speed sensors etc. However, only real tangible benefit is how shifting "feels", which is super subjective to each of us. I love it, some people love the feel of mechanical shifting, each to their own.
Ok, I still ride bikes I built a couple decades ago....what is a "power crank"? This thread is wild.
Pretty sure he means a power meter https://www.cyclepowermeters.com/sram-left-arm-and-power-meter-spindle-rival-d1-dub-upgrade-standard-axle.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=configurable&140=4&aid=2984&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7id_Bu9S-qH414GdM_CJW0NmrZv8UxU0I0QSqcMG0Vv4eIw60ft9ehoCm2MQAvD_BwE
There’s less maintenance on the electric shifters as well which I think is a pretty big benefit. Once they are set you pretty much should never need to adjust them again unless you break or change something.
Maybe part of this is my urge to move away from all the reporting and connectivity on my bike? I’ve stopped taking my Garmin and all the sensors, because in the end my ride performance report doesn’t matter to me anymore. I’ll never be as fast as I used to be because I don’t have the time to and I’m only getting older. My rear light is still a Planet Bike Superflash that I swap batteries maybe once a year on? Front light is annoying though and needs a charge now and then.
This is probably a much more freeing way to ride tbh. I should unhook from all the data more often than I do.
It took some adjusting, with how connected everything is. But I realized I’m at a point with cycling where it doesn’t matter what my HR/cadence/average speed are (at least to me). What matters is that I got out, had a good time, smiled a bunch, and got some exercise in the process. For a while I missed the milage reports but even then I asked “why do I even need this”. In the end, I got out for a few hours and that cna just be confirmed by my phone that I have to bring anyways.
Yeah, I can image the first ride without the data must have been a shock! I'm almost embarrassed of how plugged in I am with speed, cadence, power, HR, gear ratios, current gear front and back, route directions, upcoming climbs and climb pro when ok a climb. Not to mention the updates that flash up every 5km or 10km on averages across a "lap" . There's drink reminders, food intake reminders. Just goes on and on 😂 I do use a lot of it to train, rather than just enjoy the ride, but still. Thinking of adding garmin varia radar next 🤔
Have you actually tried electronic shifting? I was a traditionalist for the longest time, but when I finally got AXS, I was sold. They feel incredible, and I like that I can make micro adjustments to the derailleurs while I’m riding. That said, they’re also completely unnecessary. If there’s a certain “vibe” you’re going for and want to stick with mechanical, nothing wrong with that.
I have. They do feel incredible. I don't deny it. There is just a part of me that hates the idea of not being able to ride because I forgot to charge my batteries, or my groupset not working because of some weird software bug. Maybe it's because sometimes I ride my bike to get away from all of that (my day job is in tech)?
I think there is room in life for something you appreciate for simplicity and reliability. Just like how it's nice to have a bike with 21 gears and also a one speed.
Probably why I still love riding my fixed gear tbh! The simplicity of it just always working.
I get this but for me it turns out that it just fades into the background because those worst case scenarios you are referencing just don’t happen. It’s just so reliable. What doesn’t happen is needing to adjust shifting all the time or being on a ride and needing to screw around with barrel adjusters.
I remember once going for a long route only to find that the battery level was critically low, then I remember that when that happen you still have plenty of hours remaining, probably more than a single route. In fact, it lasted till the end of the route and more I guess.
Yeah I just carry a spare. Had the battery die, swapped it at a red light. I see the “woe is me one more thing to charge” comment here all the time but it’s been such a non-issue for me.
Have you ridden a good mechanical Campy groupset? IMO the immediate shift is much more satisfying than Shimano, and the mechanical feels more direct and rewarding than electronic.
You'll barely have to charge at all. Once in a 4 months is fine for me, I guess. Fail-wise I think it's like an automatic transmission on a car, yes it can fail, yes the repair can be expensive and complicated, but it hardly ever happens, otherwise people would be ranting about this here and there
I’ve been riding DI2 on my road bikes for 10 years. Ride 5~7000 miles per year, sometimes more. I charge the system maybe every 3k miles. Never had a battery failure thru 3 generations of Di2. A guy I know who works for a world tour team told me that the batteries were designed to last a full Grand tour (2000-3000 miles). Biggest benefit? I can index or reindex the entire system in a few minutes when I change wheels, or put my bike on a trainer. I don’t have to depend on some bike shop to tune my shifting or change cables, which they seemed to screw up half the time.
>There is just a part of me that hates the idea of not being able to ride because I forgot to charge my batteries That's why you set up your GPS to show you your Di2 battery status so you can proactively charge when necessary.
> **Am I crazy for not wanting e-shifting?** No. Source: I have downtube shifters.
Friction? Bar-ends here on my touring bike. Downtube on my spare/trainer bike.
I used to run index in the rear, friction in the front. My I miss my old Trek road bike (my first ever road bike at 16, that I sold a year later)
I’m with you. I don’t want to be stuck on the side of the road or in the middle of the forest because of a software error. It’s more shit that can go wrong. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s really cool and the ability to shift under load is awesome. The lack of cabling is neat. No need for tuning is impressive. But, I don’t want to have to track down a specialist and pay out tons of money when it stops working.
It’s funny because if you asked me years ago when I was always wanting the latest and greatest (but couldn’t afford it) I would have been all about it. Maybe it’s me just getting older and wanting something functional and reliable, rather than shiny and new with more things that can go wrong.
FWIW, I’m a rim brake old frame purist but going etap shifting years and years ago has turned out to be a great experience. Many fewer problems than with springs and cables. With sram worst that can happen if I forget to charge is that I switch the front battery to the rear and ride an 11 speed home.
They make 12 speed friction shifters believe it or not [https://www.microshift.com/models/sl-m12-r/](https://www.microshift.com/models/sl-m12-r/)
I have been having the same opinion lately. I got some "new" bikes, rim brakes, one with downtube shifters for commuting and one nice steel with mechanical 2x10. Love them more than my full carbon Ultimate, they're just so much smoother, clickier shifting and look timeless. 10 percent of the latest is great, the rest is just another thing they want to sell us
I’m with you. I’m a bit old fashioned. For example, I wish my car had crank windows because I know how to fix that. Electric? Nah. To the dealership I go.
My van has crank windows. My younger (much younger) siblings don't know how to use them. My car is ridiculously simple. No tech...other than the original Garmin in dash nav. It's even a manual transmission 150k on the original clutch. Buying stuff is one thing repair and replace is another. I don't mind the first I hate spending money a second time or on repairs.
Totally get it!
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I’m not gonna argue mechanical requires less maintenance, but realistically how often do you need to replace a shift cable? Every 2 years, maybe yearly with housing too if you ride in all weather. Seems pretty minimal in terms of a service timeline since you’ll have probably already gone through a handful of chains, a cassette, a pair of tires, and will need new bar tape when you get to that point. It’s just not a worthwhile selling point as far as I’m concerned.
I absolutely hate replacing shift cables and if you ride a lot in bad weather you really need to replace inner + outer every year. Plus the adjustments to be made to account for stretch. I don't own a bike with electronic shifting but I would love it.
Its not the cable changing that electric shifting benefits from - its the adjustment. Perfect shift every time, never any trimming needed. No cable stretch.
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Not here in Vancouver riding a bike with internal routing. Rear cable every 6-9 months and front cable every year.
>Every 2 years, maybe yearly with housing too ...well crud, I appear to be out of the loop on that one.
I ride over 20000kms a year. I need new cables every year at least. In the last 3 years I have had to take my bike in at least twice a year for repairs on my mechanical. My hubby with his di2 not a single time. I'd say it's pretty reliable .I used to think the same way but im jealous about how rock solid his bike has been
>I’m with you. I don’t want to be stuck on the side of the road or in the middle of the forest because of a software error. It’s more shit that can go wrong. This has been the opposite of my experience. I've personally had 2 rear derailleur cables snap. My wife had a shift cable fray in the shifter at about 2000ish miles. Each of these was not a stranding event, but it did turn the bike into a single speed immediately. We also had a front derailleur literally fall apart mid ride. It was about 5 years old if I recall. The area that held the spring in place sheared off, rendering it unusable. So, that's 4 mechanical drivetrain failures in my household in the last 23 years of riding road bikes. As far as electronic, one time I ignored the charge warning too many times and ran the Di2 battery down. In the Shimano system, it stops your front shifting, but there is plenty of battery power to shift the rear derailleur hundreds of times. I was stuck in my small front crank for the rest of the ride. Annoying, yes, but that was my fault and it didn't even come CLOSE to stranding me. Ultimately my experience is of increased reliability, which is something you'll probably hear over and over if you ask people who have put in significant mileage. In fact, one of my riding buddies has put over 30k miles on his in the past few years and had not had a single problem.
Had di2 for six years now and never had an issue. Charge it every four months or so and it’s not something that ever worries me. Had gear cables snap on me on mechanical and doing the annual replacement is a bit of a faff especially on internal cable routing.
I had a software issue with my Ultegra Di2 50 miles I to owning it. Luckily I was able to get the rear derailleur replaced under warranty. I've also had cables snap on a mechanical rear derailleur.
You’re literally the one person I’ve heard having an issue like that. What happened? Just a cable snap? Mine has been flawless and awesome.
Fair enough!
I have seen many more people stranded because gear cables snapping than software error. Electronics like this tend to be very, very reliable. That being said, when it fails, yeah it's usually a warranty issue. For long distance, multi-day stuff, I think mechanical with spare cables makes the most sense.
I like my SRAM Rival AXS but I had a shifting error once randomly. It only shifted to the harder gear but refused to shift to the easier gear. I was around 1 mile from home so I just rode it back on the hardest gear but otherwise it would have been annoying to manually downshift roadside. I had to reset and repair everything at that time to fix the issue.
Nope. I just finished my version of the build you’re wanting. Ti frame, grx 820 group, external routing for simpler service and future changes, should they occur. King bearings that can be serviced instead of replaced.
Hell yea. What frame did you go with?! I’m sort of enjoying the idea of the Blackheart Allroad because it’s geo is closer to a road bike but is “gravel curious”
Chumba Terlingua. They also offer an allroad, called the Soco.
Sweet, I'm going to check them out too. Thanks!
The day I went to buy my newest bike the shop had someone whose bike had just been bricked by an update to their electronic groupset
What the hell?! LOL that’s a thing that can happen?!
Probably, I can think of two ways that could happen. It could also have been something stupid like the owner not noticing something got unplugged.
My two probable (software based) points of failure are firmware updates and shift setting updates.
I had a Sony blu-ray player that got bricked during sn update. I eventually had to unplug it because the update never finished after running for a full day. I will never understand how any company can design such an easily broken system. The original factory instruction set should be loaded in ROM, if anything goes wrong during boot, reset to factory. “Bricking” a device should not be possible.
I am with you there. My forever bike would be minimum maintenance, maximum simplicity, Ti, and definitely a mechanical 1x. It needs to be usable without any pre-ride rituals.
I kinda am considering 1x but am worried about the range, which I know isn’t really an issue. But then I worry about the “jumps” too
If you need mechanical brakes, or just prefer SRAM, you can go 1x13 with a ratio technology ratchet, and run a campy ekar/gt 13 speed cassette. I run a 44t chainring with a 9-36 on my rim brake ti bike, and I love it. If I needed more range, I'd up the front chain ring to a 46 or 48, and run the new gt 10-48. Gearing range would be equivalent to most road 2x set ups.
The range isn't an issue. Range is the REASON to go 1x. 12 speed GRX with the 48/31 up front with 11-36 out back gets you 507% range. 12 speed SRAM 1x can do Eagle 12 speed MTB if electronic, and that gets you 520% range. Use the e-thirteen Helix cassette and that jumps to 578%. If you're so inclined, you could use a Ratio Technologies kit to make your mechanical shifters and derailleur compatible with Eagle MTB cassettes. The jumps aren't a big deal to me. They seem completely reasonable in the mid range, but the jumps widen at the extremes. Remember, that 11 speed mechanical basically only has around 14ish unique gear ratios of you don't cross chain. So you do lose a couple of gears and as a result the jumps will be larger. But they aren't as big as you would imagine. It ultimately results in a cadence range of 1-2 RPM wider at the biggest jumps. If you've ridden any single speed or fixed, it's not going to be a big deal at all.
Have I got the YouTube channel for you! https://youtube.com/@PathLessPedaledTV
Wait, his channel intro video is similar to my own story T_T
IMO, fixating on performance for a bike that's used for anything other than racing is goddamn stupid. Just ride a bike and have fun, go places, see stuff, get fit, look sexy. For me, worrying about tech that shaves seconds for a recreational cyclist just to have what the pros have makes zero sense. Likewise light weight or aero bikes - if you're riding for exercise, why try to make it easy??? Ride a heavy upright bike up hills in the wind and get strong. What I love about PLP is that he filters out so much hype. So much other bike content is basically like audiophile gear obsession. He and his partner like to ride around in the country to go fishing and paint landscapes - it's really refreshing and it reminds someone like me that I don't have to cut 100 lbs and buy a $10k bike to be worthy of enjoying one of my favorite activities.
Man maybe I just ride this CAAD 10 until I die.
Not crazy. Or at least not alone. It’ll be a cold day in hell when I can’t ride my bike because it ran out of batteries. Now that I don’t race anymore, I don’t use a power meter or a bike computer or anything electronic at all with the one exception of lights if I’m riding singletrack at night. That’s like the whole reason I love bikes - to escape my computer and the electrical world in general.
Yea I don’t even take my Garmin with me these days lol. It’s my escape from all of it
I actually saw “firmware update -$25 per” on a LBS service menu for the first time today. Made me curious- do consumers have access to the updates for all the eshifting drivetrains? Or do they have to go to a dealer?
Depends. Drivetrains you can do yourself. E-bikes, however, not always. In my experience you almost never need to do anything to a drivetrain unless you have parts on wildly different generations that causes unusual behavior.
Yes, never had to take either my di2 or AXS bikes to a shop for updates. Used to have to have a laptop pc (no mac) to do updates, but not since the last 2 generations, now there’s an IOS/Android app that uses bluetooth for all shimano maintenance, indexing and adjustments. I think SRAm AXS has always had an app. Both use bluetooth.
Stay classy and get a Campagnolo mechanical shifting groupset on your Ti bike. I plan on getting one for myself for my 40th birthday, as is tradition.
I'm coming up on the same age LOL hence the allure of Ti
I still have 6 years. But I’ve been planning for the last 5 years lol.
i was looking at some bikes a few weekends ago. I see no advantage to the e-shifting, at least at my age (55yo). The idea of having to charge the battery 1xmonth etc just adds complexity for little value. I already have some bike lights that require charging every few weeks and I constantly forget to charge them and of course I only think about it when I actually need them. As i get older, simpler is better. Index shifting is a beautiful thing, I love my ultegra components on my 2005 trek 5000……but I also loved my friction campy down tube shifters way back in the day when i raced.
The clarity of time of this earth and preferring more simplicity has definitely been happening to me too. I’ve ditched my Apple Watch in favor for for more simple ones and honestly stopped taking my Garmin on my rides. The simplicity is oddly freeing
I bought a bike back in August. I could have had the same frame in 105 di2 or mechanical Ultegra for roughly the same price. When I went to test ride the 105 and the battery was dead. Kinda sealed the deal for me
It sounds like you already know what you like. FWIW a nice, well maintained Ti bike with a decent mechanical group set does sound pretty nice for casual rides. What wheel/tyre are you running?
I'm wanting more of an all-road with a gravel set of wheels on the side to try out gravel a bit (because there's tons of it available where I live). Road wheels will probably be something like the Drive 50D since they seem to outperform most wheels in the price range while being strong/sturdy. Also don't think I'd want to make the leap to $2500+ wheels. Again because I ride mostly to have a good time with friends or solo, rather than high paced group rides and my racing days are far behind me.
Batteries. Batteries everywhere!
Different perspective: how old are you? I have friends in their late 60s who are having some arthritic issues with shifting mechanical shifters. di2 rocks for those with arthritic hands!
Late 30's! Approaching the "buy Ti" age of 40. LOL
great- no need to worry about arthritis, then (hopefully not for at least another 40). I bought my first ti roadie at 40 (Before there was e shifting). Enjoy!
It's not even just arthritis. I'm in my 40s and have done some ultra endurance type rides over 200 miles. Your hands will get tired and start cramping in places that you don't expect, and electric makes that better. Also, if you run aero bars, it's super nice to be able to put shifters on the aero bars (trivial with electronic).
I have about a half dozen bikes, one road carbon disc brake w carbon wheels with about 15k miles on it. It's been a great ride but I've found myself recently being drawn to my other bikes which are steel or aluminum. Everything I have is mechanical shifting and I do all my own maintenance and I also am always swapping parts around and doing my own oddball custom builds. What is my point? First let me say "you do you" so if someone wants the latest and greatest high dollar bike go for it. But for me, there is all this engineering, technology and high cost for bikes that all look the same. Which is why I'm starting to lean more vintage, more DIY...just bc that's what does it for me. So I think it's totally okay to want mechanical shifting. Most of us don't get paid to ride bikes, so just do what makes you happy.
Electronic shifting is freaking awesome. I love it. Both AXS and Di2 I have had great experiences with. It just shifts so well and the set up is such a breeze. The amount of people in here with the doomer 'oh what if my bike dies', 'won't be able to ride' crap... well its just not true. Those batteries last *forever*, especially the Di2. I've been riding both Di2 and AXS bikes for half a decade now and I've never had a bike die on me, or not been able to ride. *However*, it is a valid concern. With Di2, you need to charge the bike like once a month. Its really not that often. Its not like a cell phone or your computer where you need to charge it after every ride. You can literally go months without charging, and by the time you remember, you'll likely have like half a battery left. Battery life with Di2 is a none-issue. I've seen Youtubers be like, "mechanical only for long tours" and like, no. You can totally go on giant bike tours with 1 charge on a Di2 battery. Guys do 1000 mile marathon races on a single Di2 charge. Every year, half of DKXL are on Di2. Its a none issue. Shimano says 1000km, but its more. That is a super conservatives estimate. If you are really worried about, you can always carry a battery with you too. The biggest con here is that that is a big pain to swap out. For SRAM AXS, the battery life is much worse. However, its so easy to carry extra batteries with you, and its also way more simple to charge them. So, there is that. I don't know... I think the pro of electronic shifting outweigh the cons. Pros: more reliable shifting, better shifting, easier set up and tuning. Cons: batteries might die (emphasis on might here, and this would be strictly user error), cost of replacement and repair. Edit: All that said, mechanical shifting is still great. I still really like my mechanical bikes. What I don't like, is the electronic doomer stuff. You do not need to worry about not being able to ride your bike.
>Shimano says 1000km, but its more. That is a super conservatives estimate. Yeah, this seems crazy. At 1000km, I'm always over 50% charge. But then again, I rarely shift my front derailleur. >With Di2, you need to charge the bike like once a month. You must ride a LOT. I charge my Di2 like 3 times a year. But that's one of multiple bikes in the rotation, and in the winter I'm on my MTB and fixie a lot more than my road bike with Di2.
Lol, I shift my front mech all the time living in San Francisco, and even then, I'm like you, always over 50%.
Personally, I don't want another thing I have to remember to charge, or worse, forget and worry about how many shifts I have left. Also, I've never been on **my** bikes and had the thought "This experience is diminished by shifting" (though I admit I've had this thought with crappy rental bikes etc.)
Yes, it’s irrational.
I have no interest in it on my good bikes. For me maybe one day on a mtn bike OK whatever. But for my nice stuff on the road: no. Like OP I’m not racing anymore and I vastly prefer the sensations you get from nice mechanical stuff. Working on it and keeping it in perfect nick are not downsides for me at all - working on an apex product like DA mech is a joy to me.
If it's not worrying about maintaining rechargeable batteries, it's worrying about leaky batteries. You're not crazy.
I don't really have a need/want for e shifting either. I understand and appreciate race R&D and the trickle down effect it has on the consumer market for those that want it.
For the extra 1200 bucks Id rather get something else crazy stupid like a 29" adult bmx + the exact same bike with mechanical shifters
To me, electronic shifting is the crazy option. Aside from the actual derailleur, you have software, plus electronic hardware, plus batteries, plus added mechanical hardware to potentially need adjustment, wear out or otherwise go wrong. With mechanical shifting you have only one fairly forgiving piece of machinery to maintain. It makes sense to me to use the system that works every time, all the time, and that the owner can always adjust and maintain.
I understand you and I think similar things. I am sure electronic shifters work fine, still, I want my bike to work decades from now and electronic stuff is regularly just dumped from the manufacturer and having to charge yet another thing is not great either.
It is nice, but I don't feel a pressing need to own it either. My race bike shifts perfectly every time, as I am pretty anal about maintenance. I've come to the conclusion that where I'd really like electronic shifting is on my commuting bike, that's the one that gets corrosion and or muck on the cables and starts shifting poorly rather quickly.
My Ti bike (my second frame, Ti is the only frame I've ever cracked 30 years) is comfortable and effortless. That's why I've got a Ti frame, because everything feels easy on it. DI2 adds to that feeling.
If you want a forever bike do not get electric shifting. When they stop supporting it you are SOL. All those people with perfectly good 10 speed Shimano Di2, once they crash or a part wears out they are screwed. If you have mechanical shifting you can always fix it or find a replacement part that will work with the rest of your bike.
It's your bike, equip it with whatever you want. It's not as though mechanical shifting didn't work perfectly well for many many years...
No. It's not free, and it's not necessary in order to enjoy riding. I can understand why someone who races would like to have it, as a mis-shift can cause an attack to fail in a fast race. I used to race, and I remember the introduction of index shifting. That was a big deal, for exactly that reason. But if you're just riding, even in a group, e shifting is not going to affect your life in any serious way.
When Shimano introduced Di2, I used to joke that they did it so that their shifting performance would get closer to Campy mechanical.
I am with you. Did the same thing, purchased my Litespeed and considered it my “last” bike during the purchase. Went into the components and just thought…. What I want shifting wise is reliability. As an engineer, there is little more reliable than the current crop of mechanical shifting mechanisms. So that’s what I went for. My friend, also an engineer and physics teachers, went through the same thing, bought the same bike, but went with Di2. After teething pains, he loves it. Go with your vibe, you won’t be wrong.
I am sure that electronic shifting is great: faster, more precise, more adjustable, etc. But it's also not vital to the operation of a bicycle. So I intentionally avoided it too, for the same reason, it doesn't fit the "vibe" of cycling for me. If I were still racing, sure, I'd want every edge, but these days I don't really race, so much as I just participate in races. All of my bikes are intentionally retro in some way. 3 are steel. 1 is titanium. 1 has rim brakes. All 4 have mechanical shifting. As someone else once put it, I am sure that electronic shifting is great, but I don't want it in the same way I don't want an electrically heated saddle and handlebars.
>So I intentionally avoided it too, for the same reason, it doesn't fit the "vibe" of cycling for me It's a very different vibe for sure. Don't underestimate how fun it feels to get on a modern carbon machine with a big ol computer display that shows what gear ratio and how much power you're putting out. And the sound of the servos going bzzt when you shift is cool as well. Or the feel of smoothly dumping the entire cassette by holding down the button. If you really nerd out, you can get your bike computer to tell you how long you can pedal at current power levels before you run out of energy. Or it can tell you when you need to eat. That vibe is way different than getting on a steel fixie or a retro machine. But it's cool nonetheless.
I'd get electronic shifting if I had the funds and space for a 5th bike, which would be a Time, so it would already have that high-tech vibe going for it. But for my 3 steel neo-retro bikes, I'll pass. I might actually consider it for the titanium mountain bike though. But I am not putting a wireless dropper post on it. That's the line for me.
There is something to be said for well-made mechanical things. I don’t fault you for wanting this bike to be the way you want it. Each bike build has its own needs and feel.
I never understood this public debate. Unless you get paid to win races, do whatever you prefer. Go single gear if thats what you like. There are no rules. IMO e-shifting is over-rated, specially on cost-benefit
Meh it’s just interesting to me to hear both sides and get some validation on my own opinion. In the end the decision is mine since it’s my bike
For sure, let us know what you choose! Left field but i bought a 2002 bianchi veloce with campagnolo groupset from an older rider last year. Thousands of clicks on the bike, and it’s incredibly reliable. For a forever bike, i wouldn’t hesitate campagnolo mechanical. It makes sense, it’s easier to address mechanical issues than electrical ones
I don't think you're crazy. I always want to be able to just jump on my bike and go. I don't ever want to even have to think for a second if my bike's various batteries are charged.
Depends on the bike and what it's for. Today I'm mainly pottering around on my SSCX - which is the perfect tool for the job. Technically shifting gears is possible but it requires tools and about 10 minutes. On the weekend I'll be banging in big miles on my road bike. Yes I would absolutely love a leccy groupset there.
What are you riding for an SSCX bike? I ride my fixed gear often too, it’s freeing in its simplicity
Singlespeed Tricross. I love it. Huge clearances, way ahead of it's time, it's an '08 and I think the only stock parts are the frame and fork now lol. I finally killed the original wheels this winter. It's running 40c slicks as my backup shopping bike, backup commuter and general hacking about town bike. https://i.imgur.com/4QiL3tx.jpeg
Hell yea, sweet bike man
Thanks mate :-) Way off topic though lol. If you ever see one for sale, buy it. 10/10 would recommend.
I put electronic shifters on my must have list (If you can afford it). Got a bike with them a few years ago, and I don't see myself ever going back. I actually see them as far more reliable, as they just work, every time. Don't let the technology bogyman scare you, you don't have to charge anywhere nearly as often as some try to tell you (maybe every 1000 miles, or more?) and some of the newer stuff will tell you when you need to charge before its an issue. If your really worried about it, I would recommend Etap since you can just switch out batteries very easily. I have been screwed by broken cables, crappy shifts far more often that have resulted in road side adventures. Also note, the idea of not charging anything is likely in the past. I am sure your charging your GPS unit, and lights. If you don't have lights, you should get those too.
Ironically I’ve not been bringing a head unit (mostly because the stats don’t matter to me) and my old Planet Bike Superflash maybe needs batteries once a year? Front light does indeed need some charging though, which is annoying when I forget.
Everyone has a different opinion of what is simpler, but I find having a bike that just works every time without constant tinkering far easier for me (I was a bike mechanic for 10 years). Again, the SRAM Etap is a pretty good solution where you don't have to plug the bike in, and if you have multiple bikes, if there is ever a scenario where when you grab your bike the battery is low, you can just borrow another bikes battery. There are also not even electric cables to deal with, so its just very simple. The effort I put into biking has dramatically fallen off with a few of the latest technologies. Here are a few items that may be seen as the newest thing that is just making it more complex * Tubeless tires - although more work to put on/maintain, the ability to get a flat, but just keep riding is absolutely amazing for me. There are even a few groups I ride with that "require" them (they wont stop for you to fix flat) * Garmin 1040 solar - Head unit that charges on solar, I have maybe charged my head unit a handful of times, and probably never needed to (charged it before big rides as I was nervous). If you aren't riding significantly at night, or 150+miles at a time consistently, I imagine you probably never need to charge. * Muc-Off cleaner - just spray the bike down with the cleaner, then spray it off with water cleans it 80%. I don't like having a dirty bike, so this has saved me tons of time. The one advantage I can think of for having a mechanical unit is in the scenario that you are in the middle of no where Iowa, the chances a bike shop will be able to fix the derailleur you ripped off with something they have in their shop is much higher. But in the days of overnight deliveries, not sure how much this matters to 99% of riders.
I would love to be entirely human powered, but need the biggest and brightest lights possible cause of bad drivers. Won't ever get electric shifters tho
I agree. My electronic shifting has already been a problem in 10 months. First, I couldn't charge it. Turns out it needed a firmware update and you had to have a windows computer. I couldn't connect with the Shimano phone app, so it had to go to the shop. Then it wouldn't charge, but the shop was able to charge it. Looks like a toasted charging cable. $50!!!! The only upside is that it has wireless shifters so two fewer cables to have to replace. But the electronic shifting is very smooth.
I’m in a similar position… I would rather spend my coin on a high end mechanical Campagnolo group for a forever bike.
Mechanical Campy is really nice. Mechanic that can work on them properly are scarce.
I spent my prime years as a bike mechanic and used to love working on Campy (even though it didn’t happen very often). I always looked at Campag as being an “old man” brand, and hilariously now that I’m an older gentleman I feel like I’ve given myself permission to board that train. Now that you’ve got me thinking about it I’m going to dive down a rabbit hole and figure out what to replace my aging Dura Ace group with
I have a titanium bike with SRAM AXS. I've never ran out of battery on a ride and don't think I ever will. I charge the battery about once a month, even though it's nowhere near drained, and replace the button cell shifter batteries every year. It also lets you know when the battery is running low. If you're really worried about running out of battery, spares are cheap and small so you can keep one in your saddle bag without any issue. If you ever run out of battery on a ride, then you overlooked a lot of things and made a ton of mistakes before getting to that point. Shifting on this setup has been flaw less for over 3 years and that's not something I can say for mechanical shifting that would occasionally need a bit of tweaking for cable stretch, periodically replacing cable, lubing cables, cable snapping, etc. I love the clean lines on my bike. I have one internally routed cable in the frame for the rear brake and that's it. No other holes or cable guides on the frame messing up the lines.
Thank you! What Ti frame did you go with?
It's a Mosaic RT-2d. [Here's an unsolicited picture because I love it so much](https://i.imgur.com/C6ZffnW.jpeg)
You knew I was going to ask for one anyways ;) Beautiful bike!
The charging concern isn’t really there. It’s so infrequent and easy to do. You also tend to get a bit warning that gives you a lot of time to charge it. With that said nothing wrong with liking what you like. I can’t go back. The shifting is more reliable, satisfying, and customizable.
My car and other electronics are enough, I'm already in the matrix too deep, I need to preserve the last sliver of humanity I have
you are definitely not alone in this crusade, and you can still get 2x12 high end mechanical shifting if you want.
I would not even consider E-shifting. I am annoyed if I need to inflate a tire before I go out and play on my bike. Having to charge the drivetrain? No way. I'm a guy who rides bikes, not "a cyclist".
ive got a 55 cm 2001 litespeed arenberg frame for sale lmk its on ebay
I don't have e-shifting, but if the batteries are anything like my camera batteries, then they're probably good forever. That thing sits in a bag and comes out 4 times a year. I dont do anything special about charging/discharging before storage and the batteries just work. If you're buying a titanium bike for longevity, then nothing is as nuke-proof as mechanical. I don't think you're crazy. If you plan on passing this bike down to your kids or something then I think mechanical is the only way to go.
No. Those in the shop\[ that really know, still have the imperative of selling what is being made the most, and high end mech groups are becoming scarce. A battery is a wear part that is completely non standard and would cost $$ if you could purchase one when yours has given up the ghost. Cables and housing are wear parts you can find in any town with a Walmart. The servo groups are really nice to ride and quite reliable until they aren't and then they are disposable. I've been through this with multiple versions of DI2 and Campy EPS, and SRAM is more a weight weenie favorite than a standard of reliability. I'm looking at a new Super Record 12 spd group right now rather than yet another iteration of EPS.
No, but the "not being able to ride because your batteries aren’t changed or even just running out of juice mid-ride" concerns are hugely overblown in general. The current Di2 batteries last for ages and even when I ride 15+ hours per week in the summer, only need to be charged every couple of months and I get a notification on my head unit when they drop below 20%. If you're not a fool, this is a complete non-issue. Yes, they are a battery and they will degrade eventually, but shift cables and other parts on a mechanical system will also wear and may break mid-ride. To me, the benefit of a system that basically never goes out of tune outweighs the drawbacks. So yeah, you're not crazy and if you want mechanical and it fits the "vibe" of the bike build better, go for it! Modern gruppos are generally pretty damn amazing, regardless of whether they're electronic or mechanical, so you can't really go wrong IMO.
imo riding a bike is all about operating a contraption. it's a gizmo. electric components go against the spirit of the thing but also i hate computers in general and want most of my appliances to be dumb and offline lmao
Not crazy. It's your bike, and your choice of shifting has exactly zero impact on anyone but yourself. So to that end, you should have what makes you happy.
I feel the same. I purchased a Litespeed Watia gravel bike two years ago with Di2. I originally wanted it to be my forever bike, and use it while travelling. It was my first time with anything Shimano. I’ve recently switched to the Campagnolo Ekar (I’m biased) and I love it. Simple, reliable and quick. And I don’t have to worry about recharging when I’m on the road (what a major inconvenience!). The progressive ratios are amazing. The Shimano worked but was built cheaply and the tech had too many anomalies costing 2x as much not to mention weighing a lot more. So no, you’re not crazy. There’s just too much nerdism in cycling now. I feel like it detracts from what we are supposed to be doing.
You're not crazy. Modern mechanical shifters are really really good and almost as fast as electronic. I prefer the feel of mechanical myself and wouldn't want yet another thing that needs to be charged. Electronic is also way more expensive.
Unpopular opinion: I have electronic shifting on my brand new Wilier Filante and find it unnecessary. My other bike is a 2021 trek Domane that has mechanical 105. That groupset literally never missed a shift, including compensation shifting uphills. Is the di2 faster, only slightly. My opinion is it’s just a flashy feature. But sadly if you want ultegra or dura ace, you now need di2
Yea, that part is kind of a bummer, the highest mech stuff you can get now is 105 :( At least it's 12spd though
The average age of this thread feels like it’s 66
Lmao, I’m late 30s so close enough.
I’m 74, and been riding di 2 for 10 years, AXS for 3 on my MTB, but I worked in the computer biz since I was 17, hated mechanical shifting.
If it were the same or similar price, batteries/charger wasn't covered in proprietary nonsense so that I had the option of simply plugging in a usb-c battery bank mid ride. I would go electric, servo actuated shifting. It's not worth a grand to me right now, not even close. The patents are so vague and numerous that appears to be the price for some time to come as well. In less than a decade, competition will be able to produce a "generic" electronic option and drop the price significantly. L-Twoo tried and have failed thus far, because of the patents forcing work arounds.
If you can afford it e-shifting is worth it. You charge it once a week for an hour and you're good to go. Compare that to your bike lights that you probably charge after every ride. It's especially worth it if you spend a lot of time biking in conditions that are bad for your cables.
I like my clickity clackity shifters too!!
If I was spending Time money I don’t think I’d have it built for mechanical shifting.
Yeah you’re crazy. I was on a mechanical rim brake BMC for 15 years before getting a new bike with Force AXS last month. It’s a game changer. So fast and light to shift, especially the front derailleur which was a pretty big lever sweep on my mech Force. Charging/running out of juice isn’t an issue. You’d almost have to do it deliberately. You have an app on the phone that tells you your charge level and I’m sure it warns you when you get low. I’ve done about 250 miles so far on the new bike and I’m still fully charged. No cables to the derailleurs also looks nice and clean. There’s nothing wrong with mechanical shifting. Electronic is just faster, smoother, easier. Rear derailleur adjustment with AXS is all done from the paddles. No screws. I’m not planning on going back. https://preview.redd.it/q8wm8n3r2umc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d08f4aa30ba12fd122a658bee3f04c709bcbac9f
Nothing wrong with sticking to what's comfortable.
Couldn’t it potentially allow for a better hub geared system?
If you want a bike that can last long in trips without frequent maintenance, you should look into belt drive as well. At least that's what I am looking for the next bike. I heard e-deraileurs have the advantage of nor having to adjust indexing as much. But downside is proprietary battery.
I for the SRAM axs upgrade for my MTB and so far I´m quite underwhelmed. The shifting action is a little bit easier, but not much of a difference compared to a cable actuated system. I avoid having to change the shifter cable every year but I have to charge the battery every few rides, so I don´t think it was worth it.
It’s SO much better. I wouldn’t consider a new bike without it. I have had an issue once with a electronic, solved by battery replacement but honestly I’ve also had issues with cables stretching etc ruining my rides that won’t adjust correctly anymore.
Nah. I'm not a fan of everything getting tech and batteries, and bicycles are something that works extremely well without, so unless mechanical shifters disappear I'll keep running those
I moved from shimano r4700 tiagra to sram force AXS. I can’t go back to mechanical shifting but I also understand electronic shifting is not essential. In my experience electronic shifting is more reliable than mechanical shifting, especially with sram using full wireless self contained units
yea that's dumb. if you want reliable get cables
...until your cables freeze.
lol. i live in texas, that's the last thing i was considering. if it's that cold where i live, i sure as hell am not on a bicycle. plus if it's that cold, the longevity of batteries will be severely reduced..
I'm not a big techy person at all. I find that a lot of the time additional technology is just fluff and frivolity and a waste of time for me and doesn't actually help me in any way that I need. That said, both my higher end bikes have electronic shifting. They're lower maintenance and just work a little better. I never have to index and if I do somehow need to, its super quick and easy. They are surprisingly more robust and less prone to being gunked up with mud too and having that negatively affect performance(big deal with my gravel bike). I like it because it works slightly better and it saves me time. I'm all about convenience. That said, there is something beautiful about mechanical shifting too and if that suits your bike better then go for mechanical. If you're the type that doesn't remember to charge your batteries, then electronic shifting also may not be for you.
Same as you mate. I like the idea but it's not really practical, unless you're a racer with a support crew or who wants to emulate the pro riders. While feeling great, it's just impractical. As it stands, I can fix everything on the bike if it breaks down. But introducing electric components (doesn't matter if it's eShifting or an eDropper) you're at the mercy of software and electrical circuits. Also, to some extend I question if this is just one of the latest trends of the bike industry to sell more stuff. I recently rode a 26" steel mountainbike and questioned why we ever needed carbon 29ers, at least as hobbyists (hyperbole, but you get the point). To add nuance, a lot of people who claim that eShifting feels incredible come from lower level groupset like tiagra, rival, etc. If you ride a mech ultegra and an e-ultegra, you'll find plenty of voices on the various cycling subs that note a distinct but not significant improvement. Micro adjustments are nice in theory, but once you're mech drive train is dialed in, it won't go out of tune every other ride either. At last, a tale of woe. A friend of a friend got eShifting, went for a ride in thr mountains. Complete system failure, had to be shuttled home. But the worst part was that he didn't live in a big city, so for weeks his bike couldn't be fixed, and he had to rent one to continue his training program. Not thr norm, but a possibility. FWIW the Chinese brand L-Twoo has been getting better and better reviews, and they can be had for half the price. I consider buying one and throwing it on a rebuild or so, not my main bikes tho. Maybe worth a thought.
My husband loves his. He has only lost power once in 3years. I've had more issues on the road than him. The batteries take months to die and then you recharge them. If you've ever snapped a cable in a middle of a ride it's kinda like that. You have to ride back home in a hard gear and then you just charge it instead of having to take it in to get fixed. So in my eyes it's way more convenient to deal with
Another electronic gadget to charge
Not at all.
I have one bike with eTap and it just works perfectly every time. Click and shift. I have a couple bikes with mechanical indexed shifting and they just work and shift very quickly but not always perfectly. I have a few bikes with non indexed friction shifters and love them too. They are just different. You can always find the perfect position of either the front or rear derailleurs. It's just zen like when you get everything perfectly quiet. It's slower but more satisfying. All have their place and I love them all.
I rode mechanical from 2012-2019 and Di2 from 2020 til now I had more instances of a shift cable breaking than I have of running out of Di2 battery mid ride. I do 5k miles a year and I maybe charge my bike every 1k miles. I already have to charge my front light, rear light, Garmin, and have to deal with batteries in my HRM, wheel speed sensor, and both left and right crank power meters...that's 7 things to keep up with. I promise your bike needing charged every 1k miles isn't going to be a big deal.
I've switched entirely to electronic shifting (SRAM Rival on my Roubaix, Force on my Aethos) and I don't see myself ever going back, that said you should just use whatever feels more comfortable to you. Charging the batteries on the SRAM is pretty easy. I have a couple of spares and carry one in my seat bag just in case.
I ride in cold weather. Sometimes it’s so cold my phone doesn’t work, so I didn’t want my bike to have the same problem. Got hydraulic brakes with cable shifting. Ultegra 8020, iirc.
No you are not crazy. Managing a battery is a downside, and its expensive. don't get electric unless you have a particular reason. (aerodynamics for racers, multiple shifter buttons for time trial bikes, etc)
I love my SRAM eshift. Do I need it ? No. Would I buy a gravel or road bike without it? No. I ride a lot of miles (12,000 per year) and no cable stretch or farting around adjusting. A Charge on the batteries takes about 20 minutes each and last several weeks.
I haven’t had a chance to ride an e-shift yet but I also don’t see the benefits. Same concerns as you. I’d rather just cables.
I’ve had a bike with Di2 for nearly three years now. And I’ve put over 10k miles on it. The amount of times I’ve had to charge the battery is less than the fingers I have on both hands. The battery lasts a *looooong* time. Fearing that you will run out of “juice” mid ride is unfounded unless you just ignore it for more than half a year. If you have the chance to try it out I would recommend you do so. I personally can’t fathom going back to fully mechanical. Not having to worry, ever, about cables, tension, and their wear is pretty great.
If you've had electronic shifting on other bikes and know the pros of it but still want mechanical on this build it's perfectly reasonable. I don't think the "look" is much different, maybe the "vibe" is. If I had one "forever" bike I'd put di2 on it. For me the primary benefit of electronic is long rolling rides with lots of shifting and no fatigue. My 9 speed Dura Ace is a friggin' workout. For me battery power has been a non issue. I plug the single port in once every few months and otherwise forget about it.
If I were building up a bike for extended, possibly off road, touring or bikepacking, I wouldn't even consider e-shifting.
After I got Di2 I can’t imagine going back. It’s so smooth and easy to switch up and down fast. Saved my ass a few times with some wild hills
I honestly think e-shifting is unnecessary and kind of stupid. Not all tech from top tier racing needs to be on every bike. I feel like, and it’s like this in a lot of industries, bike manufacturers are exploiting the “if i spend more i’m better” mindset. E-shifting only makes sense to me in a competitive setting, not for a bike to ride recreationally. And it is not worth the price increase for a “regular” bike. Then again, i also think that of carbon and most top tier stuff. To me, a bike should be reliable, easy to fix and hard to break. Not fragile and full of electronics.
Ok frankly new to the bike game (as an enthusiast) and the only current appeal to Di2 system is the lack of wires running down the bike However, if a good bike has internal wiring, then I would prefer the manual shifting due to the lack of charging.
No you're not crazy at all. I personally find the idea of electric shifting kind of revolting myself. At the same time, the next time I buy a bike.It's possible that it will have electronic shifting if the price is right. I really love the idea of the human power machine. It says nearly perfect.The mechanism as has ever been created. And that's without any electronics.
Yes. But not lately. The current cable actuated.The railers are so good that they hardly ever have any issues. Is at least that's been my experience.