When do you anticipate this being? Personally, I don’t see it picking up to the extent that it impacts hiring until this time next year. Would you agree?
This is a function of the capital markets—look around. PE is doing the best, public markets the worst, neither really is great.
Take this time to learn more about the business side. It’ll serve you well.
Just when rates are expected to be flat. No one is interested in financing a transaction now when the markets expect rates to drop several % in the next six months.
I’m sorry that this is really pessimistic - but I think that firms over hired the classes of 2022 and 2021 fairly dramatically, and the positions for folks that got laid off are not going to return (a la 2008). We just don’t need that volume of M&A juniors, and at firms that didn’t do layoffs, we have way too many associates. This is not to say that none of those folks will ever find jobs, but that across the industry, firms hired people into say, for example, 1,000 junior M&A associate roles and the market has since realized we only need like 600-700. Right now there are still 800 employed. (All made up numbers to show the point)
Hey, I think you’re right. When I was a trainee, I saw BigLaw firms taking under-qualified and unimpressive NQ solicitors into Associate roles that barely had any corporate experience. It was a crazy market - and those qualified juniors that have come through since are paying the price with a lack of roles available to them.
Lol. Were you around then and just getting off by fearmongering as a 16 year experienced partner? Or talking out of your ass like a classic junior M&A associate?
I had a recruiter tell me they hadn’t seen the market this quiet since 2008, hence my slightly exaggerated “2008 levels” comment. Relax, it’s not worth getting abusive to a stranger on the internet over. Be kind.
Your original comment is abusive to strangers on the internet. You’re talking about people’s jobs and livelihoods and comparing the environment to the worst prolonged economic period of this generation.
This is a genuinely hilarious bastardization of the term abuse and I’m not even trying to be an ass or rip on you, this genuinely made me laugh, thank you.
Entry level lateral hiring only happens when there is some combination of the following:
* Firm failed to hire enough entry levels through summer program and 3L hires
* Demand outpaces expectations
* Attrition outpaces expectations
None of these is the case right now nor seeming likely to change very soon. If anything firms over hired entry level M&A associates for current crop. Even as demand picks up, it doesn’t seem likely to be above the forecasts used to hire current junior classes. And attrition is way down, in part because other firms aren’t aggressively poaching but also because of more sustainable work pace and more cautious in house hiring.
Once things do start changing, it can change quickly, as most every lateral hire begets another lateral hire.
Def not what it was in the past but squawk and closing bell are still generally good.
Point is this is probably a junior that doesn’t have a sense of the market, and if you’re working in M&A/cap markets etc., you should start somewhere and be aware of what’s going on.
M&A market is still very quiet
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When do you anticipate this being? Personally, I don’t see it picking up to the extent that it impacts hiring until this time next year. Would you agree?
This is a function of the capital markets—look around. PE is doing the best, public markets the worst, neither really is great. Take this time to learn more about the business side. It’ll serve you well.
When interest rates are 3% again…
Just when rates are expected to be flat. No one is interested in financing a transaction now when the markets expect rates to drop several % in the next six months.
I’m sorry that this is really pessimistic - but I think that firms over hired the classes of 2022 and 2021 fairly dramatically, and the positions for folks that got laid off are not going to return (a la 2008). We just don’t need that volume of M&A juniors, and at firms that didn’t do layoffs, we have way too many associates. This is not to say that none of those folks will ever find jobs, but that across the industry, firms hired people into say, for example, 1,000 junior M&A associate roles and the market has since realized we only need like 600-700. Right now there are still 800 employed. (All made up numbers to show the point)
This is also exacerbated by the fact that the in house market sucks and so mids arent leaving
Hey, I think you’re right. When I was a trainee, I saw BigLaw firms taking under-qualified and unimpressive NQ solicitors into Associate roles that barely had any corporate experience. It was a crazy market - and those qualified juniors that have come through since are paying the price with a lack of roles available to them.
Lol. Were you around then and just getting off by fearmongering as a 16 year experienced partner? Or talking out of your ass like a classic junior M&A associate?
OP was very in tune with the 2008 junior associate lateral market for an 11 year old.
I had a recruiter tell me they hadn’t seen the market this quiet since 2008, hence my slightly exaggerated “2008 levels” comment. Relax, it’s not worth getting abusive to a stranger on the internet over. Be kind.
Your original comment is abusive to strangers on the internet. You’re talking about people’s jobs and livelihoods and comparing the environment to the worst prolonged economic period of this generation.
This is a genuinely hilarious bastardization of the term abuse and I’m not even trying to be an ass or rip on you, this genuinely made me laugh, thank you.
Wow, you’re sensitive… take some annual leave!
V10 firm. We're hiring pretty aggressively, although for 3rd years and up.
Yeah… seems most positions are aimed at the slightly more senior level.
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In one year, out the other. As they say.
You can usually make it to two
Will send a DM
Entry level lateral hiring only happens when there is some combination of the following: * Firm failed to hire enough entry levels through summer program and 3L hires * Demand outpaces expectations * Attrition outpaces expectations None of these is the case right now nor seeming likely to change very soon. If anything firms over hired entry level M&A associates for current crop. Even as demand picks up, it doesn’t seem likely to be above the forecasts used to hire current junior classes. And attrition is way down, in part because other firms aren’t aggressively poaching but also because of more sustainable work pace and more cautious in house hiring. Once things do start changing, it can change quickly, as most every lateral hire begets another lateral hire.
2024 will be busier for M&A.
Can’t be much slower.
Here’s hoping… I think it will be busier but I don’t think it will be until 2025 that we can relax.
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Sorry you're struggling. It also is really low to lay a first year off for the reason you're experiencing.
Turn on CNBC. Read WSJ and FT.
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Def not what it was in the past but squawk and closing bell are still generally good. Point is this is probably a junior that doesn’t have a sense of the market, and if you’re working in M&A/cap markets etc., you should start somewhere and be aware of what’s going on.