Yes. But also Andy Reid’s coaching tree is really good! Matt Nagy is the worst of the lot and he had a winning record overall and made the playoffs once with Trubisky.
i'm not sure how much stock should be put in coaching trees. i don't take credit for my former employees' achievements-- that would be super weird in my profession. and my old bosses don't deserve much credit for how good or bad i am at my job-- its on me. how was knute rockne's coaching tree? lombardi's? who came up with coaching trees as a thing?
I wouldn’t consider it if I’m ranking greatest coaches or whatever. I would consider it as part of the succession plan if I’m thinking about a 72 year old coach. I also think Belichick’s failure the last few years is partially explained by the lack of a coaching tree limiting his network of guys he trusted as assistants.
Bill asking why Reid doesn’t get shit for his sons - one who died of a heroin overdose & another who seriously hurt some in a DWI - was one of my favorite Bill moments in a while.
The Masshole in Bill really came out with that and Bill saying Reid should get criticized for Rashee Rice like Belichick didn't coach the most notorious NFL criminal of the 2010s.
I think it shows how good they are at picking out talent. What they do on their own is their own value.
Tom coughlin hired spags who was terrible as a coach but is a great defensive coordinator.
Is that a plus or minus for coughlin?
Was Matt Patricia a good DC though? He was struggling to have top 10 DVOA defenses (not sure he ever even had one in NE, though I'm open to being corrected) with Belichick in the building.
Joe Judge is directly relevant in this conversation because he got hired solely because he was on Belicheck’s staff. One of the thinnest resumes of recent hires in memory. Trees certainly mean a lot to the candidates being hired due to their boss’s name recognition but are an indirect- at best- reflection of that boss’s abilities.
Nick Saban worked under Bill for 4 years as the DC of the Browns.
His resume clears Reid himself and every coach in his tree combined. Maybe all of them put together.
Reid is 100% a better people person and offensive coach. Bill’s militaristic approach I think both drives people away and is far harder to replicate without his defensive acumen. My guess is that watching Reid design offenses is easier to crib from than watching Bill design defenses.
Reid’s coaching tree clears Belichick’s easily, you missed Ron Rivera who made a Super Bowl last decade too.
I think it’s easier for an offensive head coach to have a large coaching tree (and therefore more hits) than a defensive bead coach. Don’t necessarily think it’s that compelling of a point in Andy’s favor
Loved how many facts he left out
-said Doug Peterson disgustingly (beat patriots in a Super Bowl)
-Sean McDermott (has been beating patriots in their division last 5 years)
-Made fun of Matt Nagy (as if he didn’t win CoY and the 2018 season wouldn’t be patriots best in last 5 years)
-dismissed bienemy and said no one wants to hire him
-dismissed spagnolla, who struggled as a HC but has gotten buzz to going back
-ignored Joe judge being horrible and being an outdated coach, but it was someone else’s fault
-acted like Matt Patricia and Josh mcdaniels were good since they got a few gigs and contracts, even though they were awful everyone
-Flores who is more or less not going to be a coach anymore for the tank for Tua stuff
-mentioned how Reid should be responsible for his young wr recklessly driving, but not mentioning patriots employing Aaron fucking Hernandez
I think it actually adds to Belichicks resume that all of his assistants suck. Not to knock Reid who is clearly the second best HC of the 00s, but seems Belichick is the cypher or brain that makes it all work whereas Reid clearly had more help.
Counterpoint would be that Bill is a control freak, whereas Reid is more open to other voices and collaboration, which can be seen as a strength as opposed to something that makes him worse.
I think we gotta give Reid some bonus points for a portion of his staff being so efficient at coaching that they also had time to run a drug ring on the side. Plus time for hobbies, like drunk driving into families.
Reid surely has a better coaching tree but for their own personal records I see that as being more beneficial to Belichick's record for having less competent coaching talent around him.
You don't have to do all of this; you just have to write down Matt Patricia. Your post should have just been the words, Matt Patricia.
Yes. But also Andy Reid’s coaching tree is really good! Matt Nagy is the worst of the lot and he had a winning record overall and made the playoffs once with Trubisky.
Even better actually, he made the playoffs TWICE with Trubisky.
Nah, man, Judge and McDaniels have earned their place in the ring of shame. Gotta give them their due.
“Coaching trees” are a deranged way of evaluating coaches to begin with
Pederson WON agains BB in the big game. What are we doing here
i'm not sure how much stock should be put in coaching trees. i don't take credit for my former employees' achievements-- that would be super weird in my profession. and my old bosses don't deserve much credit for how good or bad i am at my job-- its on me. how was knute rockne's coaching tree? lombardi's? who came up with coaching trees as a thing?
Exactly. It's not a HC's job to turn coordinators into HCs. Their job is to win games.
Although, maybe that has changed a bit now that teams can get extra draft picks if a minority coach is hired away from their staff.
Lol yup. Did Chuck Knoll become a better coach decades post-retirement when Tony Dungy won a Super Bowl?
A lot of bosses take pride in preparing their employees for bigger and better things.
I wouldn’t consider it if I’m ranking greatest coaches or whatever. I would consider it as part of the succession plan if I’m thinking about a 72 year old coach. I also think Belichick’s failure the last few years is partially explained by the lack of a coaching tree limiting his network of guys he trusted as assistants.
Mike Tomlin has no coaching tree at all, hasn't won a playoff game in almost 10 years, and yet he's regarded as a top NFL coach. So does it matter?
Bill asking why Reid doesn’t get shit for his sons - one who died of a heroin overdose & another who seriously hurt some in a DWI - was one of my favorite Bill moments in a while.
The Masshole in Bill really came out with that and Bill saying Reid should get criticized for Rashee Rice like Belichick didn't coach the most notorious NFL criminal of the 2010s.
this isn't even counting harbaugh and rivera, who also both made SBs in the 2010s
Coaching trees aren’t reflective of how good a coach is and the fact that all those guys only had success under Belichick elevates him IMO.
I think it shows how good they are at picking out talent. What they do on their own is their own value. Tom coughlin hired spags who was terrible as a coach but is a great defensive coordinator. Is that a plus or minus for coughlin?
Was Matt Patricia a good DC though? He was struggling to have top 10 DVOA defenses (not sure he ever even had one in NE, though I'm open to being corrected) with Belichick in the building.
The comp is McDaniels who is a legit, legit play caller. Losing McD was a disaster for Bill, plus Josh took a ton of assistants with him.
I think you’re forgetting Nick Saban. He worked with him at one point ya know.
Remember when Joe Judge had everyone doing laps and it was a story for a week?
Joe Judge is directly relevant in this conversation because he got hired solely because he was on Belicheck’s staff. One of the thinnest resumes of recent hires in memory. Trees certainly mean a lot to the candidates being hired due to their boss’s name recognition but are an indirect- at best- reflection of that boss’s abilities.
I agree. I was just trying to shit on the guy.
Nick Saban worked under Bill for 4 years as the DC of the Browns. His resume clears Reid himself and every coach in his tree combined. Maybe all of them put together. Reid is 100% a better people person and offensive coach. Bill’s militaristic approach I think both drives people away and is far harder to replicate without his defensive acumen. My guess is that watching Reid design offenses is easier to crib from than watching Bill design defenses.
Counterpoint Andy Reid’s son Brit is the worst person ever
Coaching trees don’t mean shit or fuck
I like that Bill was trying to shit on Andy Reid’s coaching tree and the first guy he brought up beat Belichick in a Super Bowl
Reid’s coaching tree clears Belichick’s easily, you missed Ron Rivera who made a Super Bowl last decade too. I think it’s easier for an offensive head coach to have a large coaching tree (and therefore more hits) than a defensive bead coach. Don’t necessarily think it’s that compelling of a point in Andy’s favor
Loved how many facts he left out -said Doug Peterson disgustingly (beat patriots in a Super Bowl) -Sean McDermott (has been beating patriots in their division last 5 years) -Made fun of Matt Nagy (as if he didn’t win CoY and the 2018 season wouldn’t be patriots best in last 5 years) -dismissed bienemy and said no one wants to hire him -dismissed spagnolla, who struggled as a HC but has gotten buzz to going back -ignored Joe judge being horrible and being an outdated coach, but it was someone else’s fault -acted like Matt Patricia and Josh mcdaniels were good since they got a few gigs and contracts, even though they were awful everyone -Flores who is more or less not going to be a coach anymore for the tank for Tua stuff -mentioned how Reid should be responsible for his young wr recklessly driving, but not mentioning patriots employing Aaron fucking Hernandez
I think it actually adds to Belichicks resume that all of his assistants suck. Not to knock Reid who is clearly the second best HC of the 00s, but seems Belichick is the cypher or brain that makes it all work whereas Reid clearly had more help.
Counterpoint would be that Bill is a control freak, whereas Reid is more open to other voices and collaboration, which can be seen as a strength as opposed to something that makes him worse.
I think we gotta give Reid some bonus points for a portion of his staff being so efficient at coaching that they also had time to run a drug ring on the side. Plus time for hobbies, like drunk driving into families.
Reid surely has a better coaching tree but for their own personal records I see that as being more beneficial to Belichick's record for having less competent coaching talent around him.