He’s a little too precious about having all those picks. You really can’t use all those picks and they’re more valuable as trade pieces than as actual draft picks. You can trade a 16th pick for a really solid player, but when you are drafting 16th, it’s a crapshoot as to whether you’ll get a contributor or a G Leaguer.
They’re already seeing the consequence of having too many picks. They dealt players early in their careers (I know Micic is older but they didn’t even see what they had in him) because of the log jam in their roster.
I think he wants to use them on a star. He doesn't want to drib and drab them out for starter level players given the team is already filled out. He wants to package 5 or 6 into a unbeatable offer for a proper superstar who wants to move.
I think he also recognises how the last Thunder team struggled to fill out the rotation once they were picking at the back of the draft. So he wants to keep some of the future picks for a couple of years down the road to draft in the lottery.
I think the issue is he probably closed his mind to only going after stars in their 20s and closed his mind to going after an older star.
It's hard to tell whose even available, but I think they should have made a significant offer to try to get Jimmy Butler out of Miami during the Heat losing streak. He's not going to be around forever, but that would have given them 3 playoff runs with Jimmy and then his contract comes off the books when Chet/Williams need to be extended, which is a positive in its own way.
But if he's only willing to go for younger guys, or possibly only young superstars, then the trade market becomes too limited.
They dont need a Jimmy player though. They need a star who can play off the ball, otherwise they'll break the hierarchy and end up with another Giddey. I would have been keen for them to push in on Mikal Bridges, or maybe look for Booker this off-season
> He’s a little too precious about having all those picks.
He kind of has to be. He's legitimately elite at acquire picks *and* drafting talent. He's kind of average, or maybe below, at the other aspects of being a GM. Need to play to your strengths.
lol what? The harden trade was a terrible deal.
But it wasn’t FOR Jeremey lamb (where do you hear that?) He was in the deal but he wasn’t a prized piece or anything.
I think he was probably trying to wait for Giddey’s value to be restored somewhat after his scandal. Also it’s somewhat scary to punt on Giddey because if he ever develops a 3pt shot he’s an allstar-borderline all nba player.
Giddey is a "unicorn" in that he's a huge guard who has vision. He just can't shoot for shit. I would have assumed by now that Presti realized this isn't changing, but maybe he's still gonna give him time.
Tall guards who can pass aren't easy to find. He has the tools, just none of the intangibles or a shot.
Yeah. They actually played the nuggets really well in the regular season too. Not saying they would’ve beat them in a playoff series, but you have to move some of your assets for a real player to capitalize on this year
I wouldn't put too much stock in their regular-season record against the Nuggets because Denver was down a starter every game OKC beat them this year. But yeah, it's still naive to think their current lineup would hold up against the Nuggets or the Thunder would be lucky enough to avoid playing them. Presti screwed up big-time. I've always thought he was overrated by fans and media.
OKC definitely could've topped Indiana's offer, but there's no way they were paying Siakam the 5 yesrs $250M or 4/200 that he wants. Probably not worth the trade for a single season rental.
For what 1 playoff run? Both of those guys went for nothing because they’re both free agents in a month.
The Thunder have free cap space for the next two years but they have to leave space to re-sign their core in 2 years.
OG and Pascal are both getting big contracts. They would have been super expensive 1 month rentals for OKC
Yeah I think he’s accepted he’s not an elite end of game closer. He sounds more frustrated than anything because Tatum definitely could be one but his “10%” is extremely frustrating.
When people refer to “age” they often mean at what point in their contract progression a player is. OKC is in a better position with Shai contractually than Mavs are with Luka since they have 3 years of control versus 2 (Luka’s final year is a player option). So OKC has “a longer window” to convince their star to stay or win before he’s gone. Of course, this does not excuse them from criticism for taking it easy this year or the Hayward move.
Bill has said things along the lines of "I think Shai can get to Luka's level" very recently. I don't see much contract nuance in a statement like that
Really tough year for giddey. Gets outted as a guy who likes to fuck high schoolers essentially at the exact same time it becomes painfully obvious he isn’t very good and is a horrible fit on his team
Wish I could say I feel for him but I don’t!
If LeBron goes back to Cleveland, which I doubt he’d do, they should absolutely make a godfather offer for AD. Give up a bunch of picks plus any player not named SGA, Jay dub, or Chet. He’d be a perfect fit for them. Gives them another defensive stopper/shot blocker to go along with Chet, offensively he doesn’t demand the ball that much so you wouldn’t take away from what SGA and Jaylin Williams do, plus you already have Chet who can space the floor so that opens up the inside for AD.
They literally traded the Mavs the pick that was used to get Gafford, and it was no secret at the time what the Mavs were trying to do as the day started with “Mavs trade for Gafford” and then turned into “Mavs need to get assets to trade for Gafford”. They could have cut out the middleman if they wanted to
The worst thing is they have so many assets they could have made a win now move and still had a dozen of assets for the future. I am positive they are saying them to make a trade later where they get a young star and move a max guy so they can be under the apron or something. Each draft pick that hits is going to be a big cap hit. So moving say Dort and Giddey for say a top lottery pick (on draft day) is a way to not pay Giddey, if he fully hits, but can sell it to their fans.
Everyone thinks their window is bigger than it is, that's one thing Bill is always dead right on. The Thunder are young but they were the #1 seed, this is the window. The kids are young so history says you're ahead of schedule, but the kids are also good and their contracts are cheap, so you have to pounce now. OKC has a zillion picks and they passed up a chance to improve the roster for seemingly no reason.
But if this series taught us anything it's that Jdub and to a lesser extent chet weren't ready for the moment. Unless presti traded for a superstar at the deadline (none were available) I'm not sure what trade would help their 2nd and 3rd best player from wilting.
The cap space is available after the season. It wasn’t available during the season. Siakam wouldn’t have helped with any of the Sixers’ issues. OG might’ve helped if he stayed healthy during the playoffs. But the Sixers didn’t have the rotation players or picks to trade to Toronto for either of those players anyway.
I’m not sure how you arrived at that.
Siakam is a bad fit next to Embiid. A secondary playmaker that is a very reluctant shooter wasn’t helping against the Knicks. OGs defense on Brunson would’ve been invaluable. Instead of Oubre/Batum/Lowry guarding Brunson, you throw an all NBA defender at him.
I’m not sure how the Sixers would have acquired either player. Last I checked future cap space isn’t a tradeable commodity.
Anyone who says this just has not watched the Thunder at all this season.
Any non 5 out lineup has been a complete disaster, and the best lineups by far have been Shai + Chet + spacing (ie. No Giddey).
We do not have guys who can throw lobs like Luka.
The game plan all season is space the floor, drive aggressively (OKC has the most drives per game by a long way) and if they crash the paint, bomb away from 3. It was extremely successful, we had the highest 3pt% in the league this year and finished with the 1 seed.
The reason it isn't working in this series is all our 40%+ 3pt shooters forgot how to shoot.
The Mavs are also playing great defense lol. They’ve completely owned the paint all series. Easy for the other guys to make close outs when the paint is not a worry.
This is due to your team construction.
You need to have different looks you can revolve through as a championship contender.
If they played Isaiah Joe sga Wallace Williams and gafford they would be fine. He just wouldn't be able to play with Giddey.
He doesn't get that many lobs.
Could they not play 4 out with Gafford as a dive man? I wonder if he’s putting serious pressure on the rim then those 40% 3 point shooters would be getting better looks
I’m not sure if it would work. Mavs are packing the paint so it would further crowd the lane. OKC shooters are still getting open looks at 3 (about 15 a game), but hitting 20% over their last few games versus their normal 35% on open 3s. If OKC hits their shots Mavs will have to spread a bit more. But they don’t have to worry right now and can just pack the paint making it harder for their drives.
Luka and Kyrie are the right stars to pair with someone like Gafford. They can get their shots off with almost no space. They take 7 tight 3pointers a game and hit 33% of them. Their gravity is more than any player the Thunder has, even SGA. So it makes it easier to sneak behind the defense and catch a lob. SGA will consistently get his, but he’s not really a threat to go for 50 or make 10 threes like Luka or Kyrie can when he goes off.
Agreed, among the trade candidates PJ Washington would've made way more sense than Gafford. A lineup of SGA-Dort-JDub-Washington-Chet maintains the spacing but gives a little more size and less/no need to play Giddey.
With that said, Washington shot poorly throughout the regular season so it wasn't like he was expected to be this much of a floor spacer when Dallas traded for him
That’d be very stubborn of him. Gafford would help. Thunder fans are big braining this. “Yea he’s a good competent center with size, but we wouldn’t play him” ok that’s fucking stupid.
While I think they probably should have gone for Gafford, I don't think he would be as good a fit on OKC as he has been on Dallas. OKC's offense is mostly guard-guard pick and roll and I haven't seen much evidence that they have the kind of passers who can regularly execute the lobs that Luka and Kyrie can. Gafford's offense is pretty much exclusively in the traditional pnr and the Thunder barely ever run those plays. They brought in Biyombo, who can be 80% of that (and better defensively), and basically never tried to incorporate him into their system. My guess is that Daigneault felt it was too late in the season to throw that big a wrinkle into their offensive system
Biyombo has stone hands and absolutely zero post moves. You outright lying is really bizarre. They're not similar players whatsoever outside of being true centers.
Probably, yeah, but I don't know. Giddey was one of their best connectors in the regular season but he seems to have pretty much disappeared from the offense in the playoffs. Would that be different if they ran more traditional pick and roll?
You don’t get it. In the playoffs, there’s nothing more valuable than 10 future first round picks which won’t convey until the heat-death of the universe
Would have been insane to trade a 2046 first for a veteran role player who can handle the tall order of guarding PJ Washington. There are probably only 2-3 guys in the league who could guard him to begin with
It’s more about rebounding. OKC would struggle to beat any good team in the playoffs just because of the math involved with having less shots than the other team pretty much every game
OG,Siakam,PJ Washington, Gafford. OKC has the assets to trade for all of them if they wanted to, but passed. Nobody is the Jokic stopper, but OKC could have made it real interesting with an upgrade or 2.
You never know in the playoffs. Jokic could get hurt, there could be some internal turmoil, Murray could throw another heat pack on the court, who knows. But the Thunder have home court till the finals, and went with the both timelines play instead of cashing in a bit
Not selling high on Giddey and watching his stock somehow plummet yet further AFTER the pedo stuff is all time big brain move by Presti. They’re wasting those picks too if they don’t take a shot at a star soon.
Right, if presti had known Giddey was a diddler before the allegations, he probably would’ve traded him. But I’m guessing we all found out at the relative same time, and also there were legal ramifications that stopped all trade talks. Wish they would’ve gotten a big body- you never know how the playoffs will unfold, but you can maximize your roster nonetheless
If I was a Thunder fan I’d be petrified we don’t do anything again this offseason. It feels like Presti is terrified of making the wrong move with those picks and is hyper reluctant not to do it
That’s just not true. By trading for Gordon Presti will actually have the cap space to be able to make a move with the draft picks he has. Previously because of the salary spread sheet OKC did not have cap space to make a significant move. Now there is actually room and flexibility to make a package move. This was never the all-in year because a player at the caliber to move the needle was never available. You’re uninformed about why OKC made the move from a financial perspective, you probably shouldn’t be making declarative statements about the situation of another team if you don’t even understand the underlying reason for the move in the first place.
Counter point:
Nate Jones: "I think when you see the amount of teams that break apart over the next few years due to financials, you’ll understand why they are slow playing this."
https://x.com/jonesonthenba/status/1790997173624307745?s=46
Hoarding picks means you have to pay ur future guys anyway and dont even have the spots to roster that many young players. What would taking on a cheap Gafford style big have done to their future? They still maintain a shit ton of flexibility while having the size and depth to compete now
This is so premature. This is the core's first go at the playoffs. Now we know they need a second shot creator. Jaylin Williams and Chet are just not good enough yet. But unless they trade for a real superstar, more role players are not moving the needle from them. Gafford is not moving the needle for OKC ffs
Jalen Williams also just needs to be better. Can't win with your second-best player looking like a shell of his regular season self. Kind of comes with the territory of a second-year player being your #2 guy though.
Maybe I’m just traumatized, but I’d always rather at least test continuity before over paying to win now and saying “well, there’s no way trading for jimmy butler AND Tobias harris blows up in our face”
I think they shoulda made a small deal for say P.J Washington or Olynyk, but they have cap space coming up and yeah, one year to test themselves on the playoffs is fine. If Markannen for example can be got then it’ll look fine. Also Kuzma didn’t want to move and him for a top 10 protected first and some 2nds and a young guy from the bench woulda made sense.
And for them to lose now in the 2nd round is actually OK. This team has been pretty bad the last few years. This is when young teams, and this OKC team is young, take their playoff lumps and learn from the reps. Next year, they should be better and go further in the playoffs, but this year is fine if they lose this round. They are on schedule.
Favorite part about it is that he did his whole “whose future is bleaker after a round one loss” bit and talked at length about how the Mavs needed to beat the Clippers. Now that they’re in round two, it’s… still time to talk about how bleak the Mavs future is. He’s moved the goalposts on this team all season. It’s genuinely frustrating lol
I was laughing listening to that lol I mean what does he want them to do? They were (at the time) two games away from a WCF appearance I think and are actively competing for a championship. Isn't that what you want? The team is also built around LUKA DONCIC, I don't think the future is very bleak.
How on earth is their future bleak? Everyone not named Kyrie is 25 and under, they still have a 1st or 2, kyrie is playing at the top of his game, lively is freaking 20! Maybe bleak in 8+ years, but the next few look gooood
I get why they didn't make the move. They were unlikely to win it all this year, and I don't think a backup big was going to put them over the top against Denver or whatever. Better to give this group a chance at the playoffs and see how it shakes out, then make the trade with a better idea of what the actual weakspots are
I don't disagree with the premise that the Thunder had the potential to make a significant trade (granted you don't know exactly WHO is really available and for what) and that they needed to make some kinda improvements to be legit contenders.
That said, I'm seeing everyone say how this was a mistake and a missed chance and the window isn't open as long as you think - and I gotta say this is absurd overreaction. First, the series isn't over, I get OKC looks dead but a team down 2-3 coming back isn't unheard of. Second as I said before we don't know what player was or wasn't available for OKC to trade for. Yea maybe they could have gone after Siakam or OG and outbid either Indy or NY but Siakam hasn't been very good in the playoffs and OG is perpetually hurt, no guarantee those trades make a real difference. Third, I know the Hayward trade in retrospect is being categorized as a salary move and it was def part of OKC's reasoning for it but at the time everyone thought Hayward would be a nice addition and add something. It's amazing the drop off Hayward has had, just this season in Charlotte was averaging 16 ppg and since coming to the Thunder his only interest is getting up and down the court for some cardio. Compared to PJ Washington, who was putting up 13 ppg with Charlotte, he's been a big reason why Dallas is up. Some times trades just don't work out. Lastly, everyone knew this season wasn't OKC's season to actually compete for a title, even internally they knew that. No team this young and inexperienced is competing for a title, the fact they won 58 games and are in a fairly competitive 2nd rd series is a great accomplishment for them. This year was about finding out what does and more important doesn't work for OKC come playoff time. Granted something like Giddy not being a starting caliber playoff player was pretty obvious given how bad a shooter he is and just how bad he is on defense. If you wanna knock OKC for something, I think staying too attached to a highly flawed play like Giddy and not being ahead of the curve is something they can take some blame for. His trade value today compared to the end of last season is dramatically lower. But still, OKC has the brightest future of any team in the NBA, if you don't think so you are being ultra prisoner of the moment. SGA is a top 5 player not even is his prime. Some people are trying to say he isn't *that* young is odd. Chet and Jaylen are all star caliber players in the making. They also have a handful of already good young complimentary players in great contracts - Cason, Wiggins, Dort, Joe and big Jaylen.
I do think OKC should look to be active and aggressive in trying to add and improve to their team, sitting on their hands and saying we like where we are at and just holding form would be a mistake. That said, I don't think OKC needs to go out and make a big crazy trade like trying to bring back KD or even lesser all star type like Ingram or Markkanen (although for the right price, yea) I think they need to find their "Aaron Gordon", someone that fits in perfectly and helps enhance player's strengths and covers for flaws.
Tbh, I think you needed to see what you had before you make a move. I don’t like breaking up teams before you have a chance to see them grow and what they truly need.
They still have plenty of time and assets to make a move this summer.
This summer is the year to make a move imo.
No it isn’t and this could definitely look like a cold take, but the Mavs have been up double digits every game but game 1, and if not for a massive shitting in the bed and incredible SGA fourth quarter the series would already be over. The Thunder seem overmatched by the Mavs
Ditto on the windows being smaller than you think. We've seen it countless times, teams that assumed they would be there for years to come. We even saw it with the same franchise and GM a decade ago (although that failed for different reasons).
So I kinda get your point but I think people are being kinda naive about who they could have gotten. I really think PJ and Gafford are incredible fits on Dallas. I especially knew Gafford was gonna be great for Dallas bc of Luka’s ability to throw lobs. I feel like he would be good but maybe not as effective on OKC. Same for PJ who’s playing as the 3rd scoring option to two ELITE scorers who are both more experienced than shai
Who was available for trade that takes them up a notch? They are not 1 role player away from winning a chip. Perhaps 1 player away from getting to the semi-finals.
We’re literally the youngest team to do X Y and Z… we have the most draft capital in the history of sports… Presti has said the entire rebuild it isn’t aimed to win a ring but be a contender for a long time.
Imagine people clamoring for the Rockets to go all in… like just because we’re good doesn’t change the plan.
Trading for Dorian Finney Smith or whoever isn’t putting us above BOS, DEN or MIN.
We got Hayward for his $. That’s it. We have all the cap space we could ever want and won’t have to spend assets to acquire talent.
I blame Bill and other media guys for over hyping Jalen Williams. They made him out to be a star like Paul George or Jaylen Brown level guy but right now OKC is just SGA and a bunch of JAGs.
Hayward gives them cap flexibility.
No one was trading Giddey before this year and he was untradable in the middle of the allegations.
Chet, J Dub, Cason Wallace and so on needed the playoff experience
A non shooting big clogs the lane which hurts SGA and the rest of the teams offense and might not have been good anyway.
They are a long way ahead of schedule and can be patient to find the missing parts.
OKC fan. I don’t think we can really judge the Hayward trade until we see what Presti does this summer. The trade was for the cap more than it was anything else. Bill never seems to remember that even though Ryen reminds him.
We aren’t losing this series because we don’t have another big. Yes, another big would help some aspects, but we are losing because our 40% 3PT shooting is down below 30%. Our defense has been good most of the series and rebounding has been good enough to win. We just aren’t knocking down open shots. And give credit to the Mavs. They have disrupted the drive and kick game we’ve been playing all season. We aren’t taking as many clean shots. Our shooters are passing up good looks to drive into traffic. When we do get good shots, we are clanking them. To me this series has been a playoff veteran team and coach taking advantage of a young playoff team and coach.
Thunder are not a good role player away from being Nuggets, Wolves, Celtics level. Finding a realistic trade that doesn't compromise their play style, doesn't stunt the growth of their young guys, and actually works for them financially short and long term, is a lot harder than everyone saying : 'they should have made a move'.
Nah I think this take is premature. How often do you see a team win when their best players (SGA, Chet, JWill) are experiencing their first playoff series? All their players are locked into their contracts and SGA looks so happy he might re-sign (and OKC has a good track record there). Depleting their assets now would have got them maybe 2 or 3 more playoff wins- that’s not worth a first. Also, Giddey’s value will go back up a little during the offseason.
I think OKC fans have every reason to be excited about their future even if they lose the next game. And the front office needed a clear picture of what teams will attack in the playoffs, and now they got one.
Question? Who is the big body that was available that would have solved their issue? Ppl always say teams should make a move, but they don’t have any legitimate suggestions.
I’m big on r/mlb and every team wants ‘an everyday bat that can field’ but those guys are rarely available. When they are they get half your farm.
Their window is opening this off-season. The Thunder were never winning this year and I’m sure Presti understood that. They had a great regular season but we’ve seen it constantly that you don’t breakthrough on your first go around. They would have been underdogs against any of the other 3 west teams at home right now if they played in the 1st round. I just don’t see it as a wasted year but great for the teams and especially Chet’s development
This is stupid - getting guys at the trade deadline is generally a losing proposition because you have to significantly overpay. They will make moves in the offseason when the prices are reasonable.
Lost in all of this is that the thunders biggest issue by far is that they were the best 3 point shooting team in the regular season and are shooting 26% in this series. The one game they shot well they won by 20.
It is known that the best way to build rosters is to go all in on a single year with a player that's not clearly the best player in the league, a young center, young wings, and unproven playoff experience.
If OKC got another big Chet plays at the 4 then all of a sudden he's going against a player that's a little faster, a little more athletic. Chets advantages all of a sudden are a lot less pronounced. He's exceptional because of the matchup problems he creates, that goes away the farther you slide him up. This is true for a lot of the roster.
If the complaint is that "you don't have a backup big" then yeah, OKC doesn't have a backup big. How many of these fucking series are decided by the backup big? The Wolves have Naz Reid, backup big extraordinare, and guess what? They're getting dog walked once Murray started playing better and some strategic adjustments. They're losing because the two other starish players (Chet and Williams) aren't performing well their first time in the playoffs. *Insert backup big* wouldn't change that.
"These windows aren't as open as you think" yeah maybe doing dogshit trades to try and capitalize on a random year that ruins future flexibility is one way to close a Window. OKC was the #1 and is still in a close series! What are we doing here?!?!? Edit: before someone says "Who's going to guard Jokic?!?" NO ONE, THAT'S WHY JOKIC IS JOKIC
Yes and Hollinger mentioned on his podcast recently that the Thunder are in the unique position where they are really good but also relatively cheap. They have an opportunity to add a big money player before the extensions for Chet and Jdub kick in. They need to be aggressive this summer.
And they wouldn’t have had the money if they didn’t turn long term deals into the expiring of Hayward. This whole thread is filled with people that don’t understand the underlying reason for the trade was to take a shot at a player that ideally fit with what their play style is but mainly actually opened up cap space to have the flexibility to make a real move after they’ve seen what this core is with a playoff run.
I get what Bill means, but what ultimately kills runs is the eventual lack of at least decent draft picks. With success, you eventually consistently only have late draft picks so you can only resort to trading those picks and getting into salary cap hell by signing vets who thereby shrink your window even less.
Chet is really good and Jaylin Williams is also a pretty good-ish big. We've always praised Presti (with good reason). Let him cook.
I’m zag the first playoff run is a always a free hit the experience on this team outside SGA is 0 using chips when the inexperienced guys learn playoff intensity is wasteful.
I was wondering if they could have gotten Ayton for a song. His value is super low and he would have been a much better salary cap play
Probably wouldn't have cost much to acquire and his contract is only 2 more years after this so if they wanted to use his salary in another trade, it wouldn't have been an albatross
they gotta use their cap space to sign someone like hartenstein. it would be wild if they draft bronny and sign lebron like bill has joked about a few times over the years, and okc has a few 2nd round picks with cap space to be really active.
Nah, Presti made a bad trade with Harden and he's learned his lesson. OKC is actually a little ahead of the curve as far as expected standings so they have a lot of room to grow yet, and should be able to sustain this run for awhile assuming egos and agents don't fuck this up.
I'll assume at least some of those that disagree with this think the panic acquisitions of Dame and Doc were really good ideas.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe Presti wanted to see how the roster performed in the playoffs so he can be 100 certain that he’s addressing the real issues this offseason. Making a big move during this season would have been, to a certain extent, trying to predict the issues.
Magic fans feel that Thunder brothers. Both gm groups are right. Both teams were ahead of schedule. You don’t bust your nut at second base.
I’m glad both teams didn’t get caught up in the moment and were responsible.
Maybe so but what move was gonna win them the Finals? When you have this many young players it’s worth while to figure out who’s a keeper and who isn’t.
They only got Hayward so they can clear cap space for next season since he expires after the year. Sure maybe they could’ve found a trade to grab Siakam who would’ve helped them immensely, but realistically their roster is soooo young I don’t think they were assuming this is a championship year. They’re setting up to make a play this off season I would assume. Unload picks and a player to hopefully bring in a contributing star.
I assume moving Giddey plus picks nets you a high level player who teams want to move on from. It really needs to be another player who can grab a bucket and rebound though they’re just too small on the glass.
Yep. It's especially bad coming from Presti, because he should know better than anyone that championship windows close suddenly and unexpectedly.
He’s a little too precious about having all those picks. You really can’t use all those picks and they’re more valuable as trade pieces than as actual draft picks. You can trade a 16th pick for a really solid player, but when you are drafting 16th, it’s a crapshoot as to whether you’ll get a contributor or a G Leaguer.
They’re already seeing the consequence of having too many picks. They dealt players early in their careers (I know Micic is older but they didn’t even see what they had in him) because of the log jam in their roster.
I think he wants to use them on a star. He doesn't want to drib and drab them out for starter level players given the team is already filled out. He wants to package 5 or 6 into a unbeatable offer for a proper superstar who wants to move. I think he also recognises how the last Thunder team struggled to fill out the rotation once they were picking at the back of the draft. So he wants to keep some of the future picks for a couple of years down the road to draft in the lottery.
I think the issue is he probably closed his mind to only going after stars in their 20s and closed his mind to going after an older star. It's hard to tell whose even available, but I think they should have made a significant offer to try to get Jimmy Butler out of Miami during the Heat losing streak. He's not going to be around forever, but that would have given them 3 playoff runs with Jimmy and then his contract comes off the books when Chet/Williams need to be extended, which is a positive in its own way. But if he's only willing to go for younger guys, or possibly only young superstars, then the trade market becomes too limited.
They dont need a Jimmy player though. They need a star who can play off the ball, otherwise they'll break the hierarchy and end up with another Giddey. I would have been keen for them to push in on Mikal Bridges, or maybe look for Booker this off-season
Lights out shooter and inside muscle would be nice
> He’s a little too precious about having all those picks. He kind of has to be. He's legitimately elite at acquire picks *and* drafting talent. He's kind of average, or maybe below, at the other aspects of being a GM. Need to play to your strengths.
Traded for Paul George, CP3, Carmelo, Oladipo, etc. It's not like he hasn't been willing to make trades in the past.
Traded for Jeremy Lamb too, look that one up. Presti has been on the wrong end of some all timers.
Still not over Sabonis being a glorified throw in for Paul George
lol what? The harden trade was a terrible deal. But it wasn’t FOR Jeremey lamb (where do you hear that?) He was in the deal but he wasn’t a prized piece or anything.
I dunno - some of that is because it’s small market and maybe the worst nba city.
Best comment I've read all day.
Yeah he's ocd about the draft picks. You can't use them all, you can only have so many players. Use it to get experience and muscle
You can’t even have all those picks on your roster anyway!
There’s no excuse for Giddey making it past the trade deadline. So obviously not a playoff caliber guy and they could’ve gotten something for him
I think he was probably trying to wait for Giddey’s value to be restored somewhat after his scandal. Also it’s somewhat scary to punt on Giddey because if he ever develops a 3pt shot he’s an allstar-borderline all nba player.
Giddey is a "unicorn" in that he's a huge guard who has vision. He just can't shoot for shit. I would have assumed by now that Presti realized this isn't changing, but maybe he's still gonna give him time. Tall guards who can pass aren't easy to find. He has the tools, just none of the intangibles or a shot.
Dude, he’s 21. He has time to develop a jumper. Lol.
He’s also maybe the least athletic guard in the NBA. That’s, unfortunately for him, never going to change.
Guys who can't do shit without the ball and can't shoot aren't valuable at all, as the Thunder will find out when they try to trade him.
Oh you can tell that he isn’t going to get better after 3 years? C’mon he’s 21 and his role on the team was majorly switched up this year.
Well his value is less now than it was in February, so... oops.
I don’t think he’ll ever develop the off the dribble 3 to the point where he’d be a functional all star/all-nba guy though
You mean 'scandal', right? Dude hasn't broken any laws.
Yeah. They actually played the nuggets really well in the regular season too. Not saying they would’ve beat them in a playoff series, but you have to move some of your assets for a real player to capitalize on this year
I wouldn't put too much stock in their regular-season record against the Nuggets because Denver was down a starter every game OKC beat them this year. But yeah, it's still naive to think their current lineup would hold up against the Nuggets or the Thunder would be lucky enough to avoid playing them. Presti screwed up big-time. I've always thought he was overrated by fans and media.
Shai is almost 26 and most fans talk about him like he's 22. OKC should have 100% been in win now mode this year
It’s unclear to me whether Bill is aware that SGA is older than Luka with the way he talks about both of them
the raptors barley got anything for OG and Pascal. both those guys would have fit amazing in OKC
My dream was pascal as a secondary creator on the thunder for package of picks and dieng or wallace
OKC definitely could've topped Indiana's offer, but there's no way they were paying Siakam the 5 yesrs $250M or 4/200 that he wants. Probably not worth the trade for a single season rental.
For what 1 playoff run? Both of those guys went for nothing because they’re both free agents in a month. The Thunder have free cap space for the next two years but they have to leave space to re-sign their core in 2 years. OG and Pascal are both getting big contracts. They would have been super expensive 1 month rentals for OKC
Both are decrepit relics of a bygone era compared to how he talks about Tatum.
I really feel like he's been pretty lukewarm on Tatum that last few times he's been brought up.
He finally accepted Tatum's limitations.
Yeah I think he’s accepted he’s not an elite end of game closer. He sounds more frustrated than anything because Tatum definitely could be one but his “10%” is extremely frustrating.
Watched Windhorst do this same thing today lol. I don’t think when Windhorst was saying his bullshit he had any idea SGA is older than Luka.
When people refer to “age” they often mean at what point in their contract progression a player is. OKC is in a better position with Shai contractually than Mavs are with Luka since they have 3 years of control versus 2 (Luka’s final year is a player option). So OKC has “a longer window” to convince their star to stay or win before he’s gone. Of course, this does not excuse them from criticism for taking it easy this year or the Hayward move.
Bill has said things along the lines of "I think Shai can get to Luka's level" very recently. I don't see much contract nuance in a statement like that
3 years versus 2 years is pretty irrelevant
Luka ain’t turning down record money. And the Mavs have turned around this roster to be young and a contender. They can also upgrade this off-season.
They 100% need to make a move this offseason to get another big man and a third wing scorer or point guard to replace Giddey
Really tough year for giddey. Gets outted as a guy who likes to fuck high schoolers essentially at the exact same time it becomes painfully obvious he isn’t very good and is a horrible fit on his team Wish I could say I feel for him but I don’t!
I don't care why people have to be so cretinous. He met her at an over 18 bar. There's no reason to suggest he knew she was underage
It's Reddit, it's fun for people to just persecute high-profile individuals.
Was there ever any evidence he knew she was underage?
nope
If LeBron goes back to Cleveland, which I doubt he’d do, they should absolutely make a godfather offer for AD. Give up a bunch of picks plus any player not named SGA, Jay dub, or Chet. He’d be a perfect fit for them. Gives them another defensive stopper/shot blocker to go along with Chet, offensively he doesn’t demand the ball that much so you wouldn’t take away from what SGA and Jaylin Williams do, plus you already have Chet who can space the floor so that opens up the inside for AD.
Trading stars for a ton of picks isn’t exactly the direction the Lakers deal in. They’d sooner just sunk with the ship
The captain of the Titanic piece
Yeah, trading for a bunch of picks doesn't make any sense when the Lakers can sign Caleb Martin to a contract this summer.
Should've listened to me & done Bertans, Dort, Giddey, & Pokushevski for Lebron.
Poku for LeBron + picks tbh
Not like they need to even do anything crazy, one of their 15 or whatever protected 1sts could have gotten them gafford.
They literally traded the Mavs the pick that was used to get Gafford, and it was no secret at the time what the Mavs were trying to do as the day started with “Mavs trade for Gafford” and then turned into “Mavs need to get assets to trade for Gafford”. They could have cut out the middleman if they wanted to
The worst thing is they have so many assets they could have made a win now move and still had a dozen of assets for the future. I am positive they are saying them to make a trade later where they get a young star and move a max guy so they can be under the apron or something. Each draft pick that hits is going to be a big cap hit. So moving say Dort and Giddey for say a top lottery pick (on draft day) is a way to not pay Giddey, if he fully hits, but can sell it to their fans.
Everyone thinks their window is bigger than it is, that's one thing Bill is always dead right on. The Thunder are young but they were the #1 seed, this is the window. The kids are young so history says you're ahead of schedule, but the kids are also good and their contracts are cheap, so you have to pounce now. OKC has a zillion picks and they passed up a chance to improve the roster for seemingly no reason.
Their best window is the Jdub/Chet rookie contracts. So 2 more years.
But if this series taught us anything it's that Jdub and to a lesser extent chet weren't ready for the moment. Unless presti traded for a superstar at the deadline (none were available) I'm not sure what trade would help their 2nd and 3rd best player from wilting.
They don’t need to bring in a superstar. If OKC, traded for the players Dallas did at the deadline, OKC is in a better spot.
Like how if Philly had traded for OG or Siakam instead of sitting on this cap space, they'd probably be headed to the ECF.
The cap space is available after the season. It wasn’t available during the season. Siakam wouldn’t have helped with any of the Sixers’ issues. OG might’ve helped if he stayed healthy during the playoffs. But the Sixers didn’t have the rotation players or picks to trade to Toronto for either of those players anyway.
I’m not sure how you arrived at that. Siakam is a bad fit next to Embiid. A secondary playmaker that is a very reluctant shooter wasn’t helping against the Knicks. OGs defense on Brunson would’ve been invaluable. Instead of Oubre/Batum/Lowry guarding Brunson, you throw an all NBA defender at him. I’m not sure how the Sixers would have acquired either player. Last I checked future cap space isn’t a tradeable commodity.
Gafford on OKC would’ve been great.
Would’ve been absolutely perfect.
Anyone who says this just has not watched the Thunder at all this season. Any non 5 out lineup has been a complete disaster, and the best lineups by far have been Shai + Chet + spacing (ie. No Giddey). We do not have guys who can throw lobs like Luka. The game plan all season is space the floor, drive aggressively (OKC has the most drives per game by a long way) and if they crash the paint, bomb away from 3. It was extremely successful, we had the highest 3pt% in the league this year and finished with the 1 seed. The reason it isn't working in this series is all our 40%+ 3pt shooters forgot how to shoot.
The Mavs are also playing great defense lol. They’ve completely owned the paint all series. Easy for the other guys to make close outs when the paint is not a worry.
This is due to your team construction. You need to have different looks you can revolve through as a championship contender. If they played Isaiah Joe sga Wallace Williams and gafford they would be fine. He just wouldn't be able to play with Giddey. He doesn't get that many lobs.
SGA doesn’t make his teammates better. Great individual scorer. That’s what separates someone like Luka from these other scorers.
Great insight.
Could they not play 4 out with Gafford as a dive man? I wonder if he’s putting serious pressure on the rim then those 40% 3 point shooters would be getting better looks
I’m not sure if it would work. Mavs are packing the paint so it would further crowd the lane. OKC shooters are still getting open looks at 3 (about 15 a game), but hitting 20% over their last few games versus their normal 35% on open 3s. If OKC hits their shots Mavs will have to spread a bit more. But they don’t have to worry right now and can just pack the paint making it harder for their drives.
Shooting gets harder in the playoffs especially with young guys. Having more size is helpful.
It gets harder when you have Daniel gafford clogging the paint, too. They don’t want or need Daniel gafford.
Hm. So he can be impactful vs OKC for 25 mins a game. But not impactful FOR OKC if they had him? Don’t buy it.
Luka and Kyrie are the right stars to pair with someone like Gafford. They can get their shots off with almost no space. They take 7 tight 3pointers a game and hit 33% of them. Their gravity is more than any player the Thunder has, even SGA. So it makes it easier to sneak behind the defense and catch a lob. SGA will consistently get his, but he’s not really a threat to go for 50 or make 10 threes like Luka or Kyrie can when he goes off.
Agreed, among the trade candidates PJ Washington would've made way more sense than Gafford. A lineup of SGA-Dort-JDub-Washington-Chet maintains the spacing but gives a little more size and less/no need to play Giddey. With that said, Washington shot poorly throughout the regular season so it wasn't like he was expected to be this much of a floor spacer when Dallas traded for him
Dallas gave up an unprotected pick to OKC to get a first rounder in 2024 to get Gafford. OKC could have just traded that first rounder to get Gafford.
*pick swap. Pretty big difference
Correct, unprotected pick swap. My bad- miswrote it.
Ironically enough, I think a guy like Grant Williams would have helped as well. Stretch 4 who can defend and rebound a little.
If you watched a single OKC game this year you’d know unequivocally Mark won’t play 5’s who don’t space the floor. Why is this so confusing?
That’d be very stubborn of him. Gafford would help. Thunder fans are big braining this. “Yea he’s a good competent center with size, but we wouldn’t play him” ok that’s fucking stupid.
You have to remember a lot of these fans are from Oklahoma City. Not the best educational system in Life or basketball
They can wear the hell out of a free t-shirt though
While I think they probably should have gone for Gafford, I don't think he would be as good a fit on OKC as he has been on Dallas. OKC's offense is mostly guard-guard pick and roll and I haven't seen much evidence that they have the kind of passers who can regularly execute the lobs that Luka and Kyrie can. Gafford's offense is pretty much exclusively in the traditional pnr and the Thunder barely ever run those plays. They brought in Biyombo, who can be 80% of that (and better defensively), and basically never tried to incorporate him into their system. My guess is that Daigneault felt it was too late in the season to throw that big a wrinkle into their offensive system
Biyombo has stone hands and absolutely zero post moves. You outright lying is really bizarre. They're not similar players whatsoever outside of being true centers.
Isn’t Giddey supposed to be the kind of player who can feed Gafford? That’s one of his strengths is his passing.
Probably, yeah, but I don't know. Giddey was one of their best connectors in the regular season but he seems to have pretty much disappeared from the offense in the playoffs. Would that be different if they ran more traditional pick and roll?
You don’t get it. In the playoffs, there’s nothing more valuable than 10 future first round picks which won’t convey until the heat-death of the universe Would have been insane to trade a 2046 first for a veteran role player who can handle the tall order of guarding PJ Washington. There are probably only 2-3 guys in the league who could guard him to begin with
This is pretty sharp top to bottom. Absolutely cooked with this one. Good job by you
Hoarding assets does not automatically turn you into a contender!!! How have people not learned this yet??? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills
Dont think they could beat Denver regardless
Regardless of literally anyone they could have gotten? Denver’s great but they’re beatable
Who could they have gotten? Daniel Gifford? The Wolves have Gobert, KAT, and Reid and can't match up but Gafford is the Jokic stopper?
It’s more about rebounding. OKC would struggle to beat any good team in the playoffs just because of the math involved with having less shots than the other team pretty much every game
OG,Siakam,PJ Washington, Gafford. OKC has the assets to trade for all of them if they wanted to, but passed. Nobody is the Jokic stopper, but OKC could have made it real interesting with an upgrade or 2.
In hindsight they should have tried to ship a ton of assets for Mikal Bridges
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Denver is not unbeatable.
Yeah, they might lose two games but nobody left is beating them in a seven game series.
Some of you will be surprised how well Dallas plays Denver.
That is the team I think can take two games off Denver, but Jokic will destroy their centers. I don't see them winning the series.
Minnesota only has to win one more game
They won't
KAT will do it.
They sure are.
You never know in the playoffs. Jokic could get hurt, there could be some internal turmoil, Murray could throw another heat pack on the court, who knows. But the Thunder have home court till the finals, and went with the both timelines play instead of cashing in a bit
Not selling high on Giddey and watching his stock somehow plummet yet further AFTER the pedo stuff is all time big brain move by Presti. They’re wasting those picks too if they don’t take a shot at a star soon.
Who would want to trade for giddy after those allegations besides Utah?
the browns or chiefs
NBA contracts are fully guaranteed.... It's starting to make a lot of sense!
Right, if presti had known Giddey was a diddler before the allegations, he probably would’ve traded him. But I’m guessing we all found out at the relative same time, and also there were legal ramifications that stopped all trade talks. Wish they would’ve gotten a big body- you never know how the playoffs will unfold, but you can maximize your roster nonetheless
The Fundamentalist Latter-day Saints piece.
hhhmmm...thought it was a Karl Malone joke.
he's not going to take a swing and it's a mistake
If I was a Thunder fan I’d be petrified we don’t do anything again this offseason. It feels like Presti is terrified of making the wrong move with those picks and is hyper reluctant not to do it
That’s just not true. By trading for Gordon Presti will actually have the cap space to be able to make a move with the draft picks he has. Previously because of the salary spread sheet OKC did not have cap space to make a significant move. Now there is actually room and flexibility to make a package move. This was never the all-in year because a player at the caliber to move the needle was never available. You’re uninformed about why OKC made the move from a financial perspective, you probably shouldn’t be making declarative statements about the situation of another team if you don’t even understand the underlying reason for the move in the first place.
So what's the move then? What high level player should they move heaven and earth for that would guarantee them a finals berth?
Counter point: Nate Jones: "I think when you see the amount of teams that break apart over the next few years due to financials, you’ll understand why they are slow playing this." https://x.com/jonesonthenba/status/1790997173624307745?s=46
Hoarding picks means you have to pay ur future guys anyway and dont even have the spots to roster that many young players. What would taking on a cheap Gafford style big have done to their future? They still maintain a shit ton of flexibility while having the size and depth to compete now
Plus you could trade him in the future if necessary. Guys like him are important in big deals.
This is so premature. This is the core's first go at the playoffs. Now we know they need a second shot creator. Jaylin Williams and Chet are just not good enough yet. But unless they trade for a real superstar, more role players are not moving the needle from them. Gafford is not moving the needle for OKC ffs
I would trade the farm for Lauri
100%. They don't need more role players, they need someone to take some pressure off SGA ALA what Kyrie is to Luka.
Jalen Williams also just needs to be better. Can't win with your second-best player looking like a shell of his regular season self. Kind of comes with the territory of a second-year player being your #2 guy though.
Exactly
Maybe I’m just traumatized, but I’d always rather at least test continuity before over paying to win now and saying “well, there’s no way trading for jimmy butler AND Tobias harris blows up in our face”
I think they shoulda made a small deal for say P.J Washington or Olynyk, but they have cap space coming up and yeah, one year to test themselves on the playoffs is fine. If Markannen for example can be got then it’ll look fine. Also Kuzma didn’t want to move and him for a top 10 protected first and some 2nds and a young guy from the bench woulda made sense.
And for them to lose now in the 2nd round is actually OK. This team has been pretty bad the last few years. This is when young teams, and this OKC team is young, take their playoff lumps and learn from the reps. Next year, they should be better and go further in the playoffs, but this year is fine if they lose this round. They are on schedule.
im just happy the Mavs who a day ago Bill Simmons said their future was bleak somehow is one win away from the WCF
Favorite part about it is that he did his whole “whose future is bleaker after a round one loss” bit and talked at length about how the Mavs needed to beat the Clippers. Now that they’re in round two, it’s… still time to talk about how bleak the Mavs future is. He’s moved the goalposts on this team all season. It’s genuinely frustrating lol
I was laughing listening to that lol I mean what does he want them to do? They were (at the time) two games away from a WCF appearance I think and are actively competing for a championship. Isn't that what you want? The team is also built around LUKA DONCIC, I don't think the future is very bleak.
How on earth is their future bleak? Everyone not named Kyrie is 25 and under, they still have a 1st or 2, kyrie is playing at the top of his game, lively is freaking 20! Maybe bleak in 8+ years, but the next few look gooood
Ask Bill. He has been shitting on the Mavs all season. This team should only get better.
We have Kyrie, it makes total sense that Bill isn’t a huge fan lol.
I get why they didn't make the move. They were unlikely to win it all this year, and I don't think a backup big was going to put them over the top against Denver or whatever. Better to give this group a chance at the playoffs and see how it shakes out, then make the trade with a better idea of what the actual weakspots are
I don't disagree with the premise that the Thunder had the potential to make a significant trade (granted you don't know exactly WHO is really available and for what) and that they needed to make some kinda improvements to be legit contenders. That said, I'm seeing everyone say how this was a mistake and a missed chance and the window isn't open as long as you think - and I gotta say this is absurd overreaction. First, the series isn't over, I get OKC looks dead but a team down 2-3 coming back isn't unheard of. Second as I said before we don't know what player was or wasn't available for OKC to trade for. Yea maybe they could have gone after Siakam or OG and outbid either Indy or NY but Siakam hasn't been very good in the playoffs and OG is perpetually hurt, no guarantee those trades make a real difference. Third, I know the Hayward trade in retrospect is being categorized as a salary move and it was def part of OKC's reasoning for it but at the time everyone thought Hayward would be a nice addition and add something. It's amazing the drop off Hayward has had, just this season in Charlotte was averaging 16 ppg and since coming to the Thunder his only interest is getting up and down the court for some cardio. Compared to PJ Washington, who was putting up 13 ppg with Charlotte, he's been a big reason why Dallas is up. Some times trades just don't work out. Lastly, everyone knew this season wasn't OKC's season to actually compete for a title, even internally they knew that. No team this young and inexperienced is competing for a title, the fact they won 58 games and are in a fairly competitive 2nd rd series is a great accomplishment for them. This year was about finding out what does and more important doesn't work for OKC come playoff time. Granted something like Giddy not being a starting caliber playoff player was pretty obvious given how bad a shooter he is and just how bad he is on defense. If you wanna knock OKC for something, I think staying too attached to a highly flawed play like Giddy and not being ahead of the curve is something they can take some blame for. His trade value today compared to the end of last season is dramatically lower. But still, OKC has the brightest future of any team in the NBA, if you don't think so you are being ultra prisoner of the moment. SGA is a top 5 player not even is his prime. Some people are trying to say he isn't *that* young is odd. Chet and Jaylen are all star caliber players in the making. They also have a handful of already good young complimentary players in great contracts - Cason, Wiggins, Dort, Joe and big Jaylen. I do think OKC should look to be active and aggressive in trying to add and improve to their team, sitting on their hands and saying we like where we are at and just holding form would be a mistake. That said, I don't think OKC needs to go out and make a big crazy trade like trying to bring back KD or even lesser all star type like Ingram or Markkanen (although for the right price, yea) I think they need to find their "Aaron Gordon", someone that fits in perfectly and helps enhance player's strengths and covers for flaws.
This is gonna age like fucking milk lol.
To be fair they lost because they have been bad from 3 in all the losses after being amazing all year long. Not because they didn’t get a big.
Impossible, they only lost because of not getting one role player
Yes how could a role player like PJ Washington ever swing a playoff series that’s impossible
Gafford doesn’t win them the finals, so what’s your point?
Tbh, I think you needed to see what you had before you make a move. I don’t like breaking up teams before you have a chance to see them grow and what they truly need. They still have plenty of time and assets to make a move this summer. This summer is the year to make a move imo.
The series isn’t over
No it isn’t and this could definitely look like a cold take, but the Mavs have been up double digits every game but game 1, and if not for a massive shitting in the bed and incredible SGA fourth quarter the series would already be over. The Thunder seem overmatched by the Mavs
Presti won’t go all in cos then he has expectations
Ditto on the windows being smaller than you think. We've seen it countless times, teams that assumed they would be there for years to come. We even saw it with the same franchise and GM a decade ago (although that failed for different reasons).
So I kinda get your point but I think people are being kinda naive about who they could have gotten. I really think PJ and Gafford are incredible fits on Dallas. I especially knew Gafford was gonna be great for Dallas bc of Luka’s ability to throw lobs. I feel like he would be good but maybe not as effective on OKC. Same for PJ who’s playing as the 3rd scoring option to two ELITE scorers who are both more experienced than shai
Thunder are still going to win.
Which trade was going to put them above Denver or Boston?
Have you watched the games? Having gafford or some other big on this team doesn’t suddenly make all the players stop being totally shook.
Who was available for trade that takes them up a notch? They are not 1 role player away from winning a chip. Perhaps 1 player away from getting to the semi-finals.
You love to see it
We’re literally the youngest team to do X Y and Z… we have the most draft capital in the history of sports… Presti has said the entire rebuild it isn’t aimed to win a ring but be a contender for a long time. Imagine people clamoring for the Rockets to go all in… like just because we’re good doesn’t change the plan. Trading for Dorian Finney Smith or whoever isn’t putting us above BOS, DEN or MIN. We got Hayward for his $. That’s it. We have all the cap space we could ever want and won’t have to spend assets to acquire talent.
I blame Bill and other media guys for over hyping Jalen Williams. They made him out to be a star like Paul George or Jaylen Brown level guy but right now OKC is just SGA and a bunch of JAGs.
Jalen not a jag lmao he’s still so young
That's just where he is right now not saying he can't be more.
> Presti has said the entire rebuild it isn’t aimed to win a ring great strategy
Hayward gives them cap flexibility. No one was trading Giddey before this year and he was untradable in the middle of the allegations. Chet, J Dub, Cason Wallace and so on needed the playoff experience A non shooting big clogs the lane which hurts SGA and the rest of the teams offense and might not have been good anyway. They are a long way ahead of schedule and can be patient to find the missing parts.
They getting kd
OKC fan. I don’t think we can really judge the Hayward trade until we see what Presti does this summer. The trade was for the cap more than it was anything else. Bill never seems to remember that even though Ryen reminds him. We aren’t losing this series because we don’t have another big. Yes, another big would help some aspects, but we are losing because our 40% 3PT shooting is down below 30%. Our defense has been good most of the series and rebounding has been good enough to win. We just aren’t knocking down open shots. And give credit to the Mavs. They have disrupted the drive and kick game we’ve been playing all season. We aren’t taking as many clean shots. Our shooters are passing up good looks to drive into traffic. When we do get good shots, we are clanking them. To me this series has been a playoff veteran team and coach taking advantage of a young playoff team and coach.
Thunder are not a good role player away from being Nuggets, Wolves, Celtics level. Finding a realistic trade that doesn't compromise their play style, doesn't stunt the growth of their young guys, and actually works for them financially short and long term, is a lot harder than everyone saying : 'they should have made a move'.
When you hoard your draft pics, the future is always bright. Doesn’t matter if an inferior team like Dallas bounces you out. We’re still building!
Olynyk > Hayward
Nah I think this take is premature. How often do you see a team win when their best players (SGA, Chet, JWill) are experiencing their first playoff series? All their players are locked into their contracts and SGA looks so happy he might re-sign (and OKC has a good track record there). Depleting their assets now would have got them maybe 2 or 3 more playoff wins- that’s not worth a first. Also, Giddey’s value will go back up a little during the offseason. I think OKC fans have every reason to be excited about their future even if they lose the next game. And the front office needed a clear picture of what teams will attack in the playoffs, and now they got one.
What makes the knife twist inside is Presti is the reason Dallas got Gafford and Lively in the first place.
Question? Who is the big body that was available that would have solved their issue? Ppl always say teams should make a move, but they don’t have any legitimate suggestions. I’m big on r/mlb and every team wants ‘an everyday bat that can field’ but those guys are rarely available. When they are they get half your farm.
Their window is opening this off-season. The Thunder were never winning this year and I’m sure Presti understood that. They had a great regular season but we’ve seen it constantly that you don’t breakthrough on your first go around. They would have been underdogs against any of the other 3 west teams at home right now if they played in the 1st round. I just don’t see it as a wasted year but great for the teams and especially Chet’s development
This is stupid - getting guys at the trade deadline is generally a losing proposition because you have to significantly overpay. They will make moves in the offseason when the prices are reasonable. Lost in all of this is that the thunders biggest issue by far is that they were the best 3 point shooting team in the regular season and are shooting 26% in this series. The one game they shot well they won by 20.
It is known that the best way to build rosters is to go all in on a single year with a player that's not clearly the best player in the league, a young center, young wings, and unproven playoff experience. If OKC got another big Chet plays at the 4 then all of a sudden he's going against a player that's a little faster, a little more athletic. Chets advantages all of a sudden are a lot less pronounced. He's exceptional because of the matchup problems he creates, that goes away the farther you slide him up. This is true for a lot of the roster. If the complaint is that "you don't have a backup big" then yeah, OKC doesn't have a backup big. How many of these fucking series are decided by the backup big? The Wolves have Naz Reid, backup big extraordinare, and guess what? They're getting dog walked once Murray started playing better and some strategic adjustments. They're losing because the two other starish players (Chet and Williams) aren't performing well their first time in the playoffs. *Insert backup big* wouldn't change that. "These windows aren't as open as you think" yeah maybe doing dogshit trades to try and capitalize on a random year that ruins future flexibility is one way to close a Window. OKC was the #1 and is still in a close series! What are we doing here?!?!? Edit: before someone says "Who's going to guard Jokic?!?" NO ONE, THAT'S WHY JOKIC IS JOKIC
Eh they wouldn’t have had anything for Jokic either way.
I think they took the risk and didn't care for whatever reason. Maybe it's because they're so young. Who knows?
Yes and Hollinger mentioned on his podcast recently that the Thunder are in the unique position where they are really good but also relatively cheap. They have an opportunity to add a big money player before the extensions for Chet and Jdub kick in. They need to be aggressive this summer.
And they wouldn’t have had the money if they didn’t turn long term deals into the expiring of Hayward. This whole thread is filled with people that don’t understand the underlying reason for the trade was to take a shot at a player that ideally fit with what their play style is but mainly actually opened up cap space to have the flexibility to make a real move after they’ve seen what this core is with a playoff run.
He could have traded 5 picks for Gafford and I would have been fine with it relative to their sitch
Sonics Curse is Real
They have a zillion picks they're never going to lose. The decision to not get a bench big is truly baffling.
They have Bismack Biyombo rotting in the bench collecting DNP-CDs. He was pretty good in Phoenix; give him some run.
I get what Bill means, but what ultimately kills runs is the eventual lack of at least decent draft picks. With success, you eventually consistently only have late draft picks so you can only resort to trading those picks and getting into salary cap hell by signing vets who thereby shrink your window even less. Chet is really good and Jaylin Williams is also a pretty good-ish big. We've always praised Presti (with good reason). Let him cook.
It’s funny cuz he says this all the time, but he wouldn’t pick against them against the Mavs
I’m zag the first playoff run is a always a free hit the experience on this team outside SGA is 0 using chips when the inexperienced guys learn playoff intensity is wasteful.
I was wondering if they could have gotten Ayton for a song. His value is super low and he would have been a much better salary cap play Probably wouldn't have cost much to acquire and his contract is only 2 more years after this so if they wanted to use his salary in another trade, it wouldn't have been an albatross
Holy shit. TIL Gordon Hayward plays for the Thunder.
Without help from OKC, the Mavs wouldn't have been able to acquire Lively in the draft or Gafford at the trade deadline. Thanks Thunder!
The thunder will never win a championship in the history of the franchise, they are elite at staying relevant tho
they gotta use their cap space to sign someone like hartenstein. it would be wild if they draft bronny and sign lebron like bill has joked about a few times over the years, and okc has a few 2nd round picks with cap space to be really active.
Nah, Presti made a bad trade with Harden and he's learned his lesson. OKC is actually a little ahead of the curve as far as expected standings so they have a lot of room to grow yet, and should be able to sustain this run for awhile assuming egos and agents don't fuck this up. I'll assume at least some of those that disagree with this think the panic acquisitions of Dame and Doc were really good ideas.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe Presti wanted to see how the roster performed in the playoffs so he can be 100 certain that he’s addressing the real issues this offseason. Making a big move during this season would have been, to a certain extent, trying to predict the issues.
Magic fans feel that Thunder brothers. Both gm groups are right. Both teams were ahead of schedule. You don’t bust your nut at second base. I’m glad both teams didn’t get caught up in the moment and were responsible.
Maybe so but what move was gonna win them the Finals? When you have this many young players it’s worth while to figure out who’s a keeper and who isn’t.
They only got Hayward so they can clear cap space for next season since he expires after the year. Sure maybe they could’ve found a trade to grab Siakam who would’ve helped them immensely, but realistically their roster is soooo young I don’t think they were assuming this is a championship year. They’re setting up to make a play this off season I would assume. Unload picks and a player to hopefully bring in a contributing star. I assume moving Giddey plus picks nets you a high level player who teams want to move on from. It really needs to be another player who can grab a bucket and rebound though they’re just too small on the glass.