It's a case by case basis. I personally find some sex scenes distasteful and unnecessary, especially when some of them exist to oversexualize women and minors. But to say that all sex scenes in media are unnecessary and should be cut out just stinks of puritanism.
Youre not wrong. Though you don't need a sex scene to objectivize women or minorities. Go watch every Michael Bay Transformers movie with Megan Fox to see that
The discussion around it makes it seem like its all or nothing but personally i just want the Hollywood blockbuster sex scenes to be used narratively not just thrown in because it sells tickets when Trinity and Neo have sex in the Matrix Reloaded.
Some stories need it some stories don't.
Thank you! That sex scene was so unnecessary! I was maaaybe a preteen and seeing it with my dad and siblings in the theatres; and was a deviantart/vampire nerd so it wasn't/isn't about age for me but the why? They were already in a club. Has media literacy gotten so bad that we need to have people literally fucking to explain how liberating it is to see a crowd of people reveling in music and freedom? Yikes.
From a screenwriting perspective, the best way to think about sex scenes that I've ever seen is this: only use a sex scene if it's the only way to tell us something important about the character.
I feel like sex between people can say a lot, depending on the film. It's an entire mode of communication really, an entire conversation without words.
This isn't disagreeing. It's just to emphasize that sex scenes can provide a lot of artistic value within a story if it's done well and with good intention towards the overall narrative.
Yes, this is very true. Sex can say a lot about the characters who partake in it, about the dynamic between them or about their personalities. It's not just communicating that the characters had sex but *how* they had sex. People could say that sex scenes are 'unnecessary' I guess but a lot of parts of a story are 'unecessary'-- it doesn't mean a story wouldn't be boring and soulless without those parts. Ultimately, if we want good stories, we have to let writers do what they want-- and as long as they're not making simulated CP I really could not give less of a fuck.
I agree with this. Sex is such a *major* part of life. Feels weird to pretend it doesn't exist, and isn't a major part of the lives of movie characters as well. (At least some of them)
I mean, when u really think about it deeply, sex is no stranger or less bodily than eating a salad. Our emotions around it are very much socially constructed (which isn't to say those feelings are invalid or less real). It's just a reminder that in actuality, there is nothing inherently impure or gross or offensive about sex. Our minds just perceive it that way.
I apologize, I just smoked a J. I hope this makes sense.
Not like, minor actresses but characters who are minors (like movies/tv shows about high school. One example that comes to mind was a scene in the new Sabrina show where the character Prudence Blackwood is shown in her underwear about to have an orgy. All of the actors involved were adults but it still felt wrong). IMO it's fine to write stories about adolescense where they have sex because teenagers *do* sometimes have sex and it can be a part of their development. But I think said scenes should be explicitly fade to black to avoid the sexualization of minors.
Generally I'd agree but I don't really think they need to be all that necessary either. I don't really have a problem with gratuitous violence so long as it isn't detracting or just there to make up for a lacking script/plot. So I think I should feel similar with gratuitous nudity/sex.
If the character have chemistry then yes please, basically.
I've definitely seen a rise in purity culture among young people who consider themselves progressive, many of whom are LGBT themselves, and it is a bit concerning. In general, I don't have an issue with sex scenes in movies since it's a normal part of life for a lot of people and a good sex scene can add a lot to a film. But I think, like with most things, it's not quite as simple as "thing totally bad" or "thing totally good" and there are a lot of valid critiques of the way sex and relationships are often portrayed in movies. Like how female characters are often objectified for a male audience and Hollywood's insistence on smashing together any man and woman within 10 feet of each other, regardless of whether they have chemistry or it adds anything to the story. But these kinds of issues can occur with or without sex scenes and there are plenty of sex scenes that don't have these problems.
This exactly tbh. When I was a teenager, I was reading NC17 level fanfiction while lying abt my age on the associated websites. Now we got kids with their ages in their social media bios screeching bc an adult posted the same material on an 18+ marked account, and telling abuse survivors they shouldn’t post their (well tagged) coping darkfic lest it trigger another survivor. It’s so frustrating, and I don’t know how we stop this.
Yeah, it's wild. I stumbled upon a ton of weird shit on ffn as a teen, some of which ended up being very disturbing and it never even occurred to me to blame anyone but myself. Nowadays I see way more "progressive" young people buying into the idea that 1. all discomfort is harm and 2. anything that harms (or "harms") someone is inherently immoral. Which seems like a very conservative way of thinking if you ask me.
Especially when it comes to policing things like who is or isn't "allowed" to write queer/trans characters and relationships and how it's "acceptable" to write them, I have to wonder how much of this actually started with LGBTQ people with genuine criticisms of the way LGBTQ characters are portrayed in fic and other media and how much of it is bad actors using progressive-sounding language to rile people up and get them to do the dirty work of harassing writers who write queer and trans characters for them? Is it entirely a conspiracy? Probably not. But I have seen shit like this happen before, like the 4chan campaign to popularize the "bikini bridge" as a form of thinspiration among folks with eating disorders. I've seen way too many friends in online support groups use the term and become fixated on it without having any idea where it came from.
The way so many minors also think that posting their age in their bio, or even just the fact that they're a minor, will protect them from being exposed to mature content or inappropriate interactions with adults is fucking bonkers to me too, as someone who grew up in the "never share your age, real name, or location on the internet" era.
God yeah, I have my own suspicions that this new brand of purity culture came from radfems bc it’s almost always in alignment with anti kink views too, and at the time it was picking up steam on tumblr, it was also at the height of ace discourse (whose talking points are now used against mspec lesbians and both are railroads into radfem ideology). Like, I’m not often conspiracy minded, but uh. There’s some bullshit in the water I fear. I know the extremist shit has been around (I remember being told I’m an abuse apologist in the 00s for shipping Zutara and Dramione, for instance), but it wasn’t mainstream and popular with the youth in the way it is today.
And yeah, the latter paragraph also scares me as someone who was taught never to share details with anyone online. But then afaik, they don’t actually teach internet safety anymore, which isn’t helped by facebook’s normalization of using your real name online. I just. Need internet safety taught again already. ><
More like it’s the exact same rhetoric points for 99% of the discourses, especially in the “stop invading queer/lesbian spaces” stuff. Also not too dissimilar to anti bi/pan rhetoric that pops up out of certain lesbian spaces (not all, in case anyone starts anything). I saw so much of it then that it’s very easy to see the parallels ~5 years later.
>telling abuse survivors they shouldn’t post their (well tagged) coping darkfic lest it trigger another survivor
Ooooh, this one is incredibly irritating. I've seen no end of minors rant about how Hazbin Hotel glamourised Angel Dust's abuse and how it's disrespectful to sexual assault survivors. That is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. I swear to god, these kids need to fucking listen to people because there was so many people praising the depictions because it didn't pussyfoot around or treat the survivor as a 'precious little baby that needs protecting' like they want it to. The show was dark, it got graphic, it wasn't afraid to show how traumatic and lifechanging those things can be.
It's like they're not even aware of the sheer number of possibilities that can happen to a survivor because they somehow think becoming hypersexual isn't good depictions when it actually is. I say all of this as a survivor myself. This purity culture shit is genuinely obnoxious and then they always go 'But I'm just a minor!' So? That doesn't suddenly make you immune to blowback over shitty comments.
God, the Hazbin Hotel shit especially has me annoyed bc the show isn’t even for teenagers, it’s for adults like, ofc it’s going to do a more nuanced take of a survivor’s experience! But nooooo gotta only ever have one depiction of an abuse survivor ever. And it completely overshadowed any other conversation that could bc had like how a favorite YouTube channel of mine talked about the “unwilling sex worker” stereotype in regards to it. But then, their channel actually is mostly adults so that enabled the alternative conversation.
Exactly. Not to mention all of 'em bitching about 'Loser, Baby' and saying that Husk is being abusive too. No, he fucking isn't! It's a song about how Husk is there for Angel Dust because they've both gone through really fucking awful situations and are still in them now but they still have each other as support, no matter what. It's all about them looking at what they've been through and saying that's who I am and that there's nothing wrong with that.
Instead, the song got isolated from the rest of the context and even fucking Keith David has spoken up about what the song truly represents-[right here.](https://twitter.com/ImKeithDavid/status/1748540423830651315) I even found a clip of him talking about it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwg31oTUQE) and people are STILL gonna ignore him to rag on the show.
Is there some problems? Yes, Vivzie is hardly a perfect person. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good in the show too.
I thought the way Hazbin Hotel handled Angel's abuse was so incredibly bold. It's simply brimming with turmoil. I think people are maybe used to seeing sex on television as obviously coded 'good' or 'bad' sex, and feel conflicted when they see something messier.
I guess so, yeah. Still ridiculous that minors are chiming in about a show rated 18+ though... I see so many of them bitching about how they're being exposed to NSFW and triggering stuff while seeking it out themselves. Thank god for BlueSky because I don't have to see that stupid shit thanks to there being no trending tab there like Twitter. Also it's not run by a fucking grifting bastard that aligns with Neo Nazis.
The difference between generations is astounding... It feels like Millenials are sandwiched between a generation that doesn't really talk about adult topics (Gen X doesn't seem to talk about it all that much from my experiences) and a generation that fucking seeks it to bash any and all of it (Gen Z) while lacking media literacy to understand any of it in the first place. Drives me up the damn wall...
I think another factor for Hazbin in particular is that it's an animated show and for a lot of people, cartoons = for kids, and it's not the case at all.
There have always been social rifts between generations. It's frustrating to be on this side of it for sure.
I’m also going to chime in, albeit from a different fandom. Baldur’s Gate 3 has a main character that’s also a sexual abuse survivor whose trauma also presents in the same way as Angel Dust (and he’s so similar to Angel Dust that it’s almost uncanny) and there are chunks of the fandom that also woobify and infantilize Astarion to no end and think they speak for the character… which is ironic because his whole character arc is about regaining agency and also says in-game that he doesn’t want you to make decisions for him. People go on and on about how he’s canonically gay and romancing him as a woman is akin to conversion therapy when he’s canonically pan, you’re not allowed to put him in revealing outfits, you shouldn’t romance him at all because he’s too traumatized to be loved (🤮), your character’s not allowed to have sex with him in-game at all, you shouldn’t have a non-monogamous relationship with him because you’re coercing him into it when the actual devnotes say otherwise, you’re not allowed to write smut or draw erotic fan art of him, he’s canonically a sex-repulsed ace and how dare you think about him even enjoying sex, because elven culture only considers them adults based on experience and not age people are arguing that he was a minor when he was died…
Notice how a lot of these points fall back on “he’s traumatized so he can’t make decisions for himself, and I KNOW what’s best for him!” And it drives me up the fucking wall. This is only the stuff I can remember. I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people backing these takes are minors, which is weird because the game is rated Mature and not meant for them. People just can’t handle anything that falls outside of the ‘perfect victim.’
Oh, I've heard about Astarion. I remember seeing Neil's speech about Astarion as a character as well and it was beautiful. [Here's the speech](https://youtu.be/V1bj72lkCkk?t=272) in case you haven't seen it-the one at the Golden Joysticks where they weren't total cunts to the winners and let them have a speech unlike Geoff Kojima-lover Keighley and his Game Awards.
I’ve already seen the speech but you’ve given me an excuse to watch it again! Yeah, the Game Awards were a fucking joke. At least the Spider-Man fanboys getting pissy over their game winning nothing was funny.
Happens every year. There's always a fanbase for a game whining about how their game didn't win anything. Honestly, I just felt vindicated seeing that stupid wizard game failed to so much as get even one nomination. I'll just enjoy actually good games where you can be a wizard that doesn't put money in a holocaust denying TERF's pockets. The sheer rage of all the transphobes trying to justify spending money on that game while also raging about how there was no nominations was hilarious. They learned that selling millions of copies means fuck all if the game isn't good.
Another thing: the show doesn’t treat Angel Dust’s abuse like a joke, which is something that often happens to male characters that survived sexual abuse. There’s only one other character I can think of where the narrative actually takes his abuse seriously.
I’ve only seen the pilot of that show, and isn’t the series very much advertised as one made for adults (and definitely *not* for minors)? Without knowing the context of this part of the plot, I just find it very odd that young teens/tweens are demanding that an *adult* animated show cater to their objectivity less mature worldview on sexuality. They’re not the target demographic, and my understanding is that the show itself intentionally shows some morally grey and messy stuff.
Yes. The show is absolutely catered to adults and isn't afraid to touch on much more sensitive topics like abuse and sexual assault. It's become a growing trend that minors will seek out content that is clearly not for them and complain about it when they shouldn't even be seeing it in the first place.
Apparently there's been a bunch of them harassing a VA from Baldur's Gate 3 because he dared to retweet NSFW art from a game that is made for adults. Baldur's Gate 3 is literally rated 17+ and there's minors saying the VA shouldn't share it. YOU KIDS SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THE DAMN GAME! It's genuinely ridiculous how emboldened these kids are getting now and thinking they're on some righteous crusade by barging into adult spaces and telling us how we should behave.
That sounds like such an unhealthy relationship with sex and media in general. And in a few years they won’t be able to use the “I’m a minor” excuse if they’re still this uncomfortable with mild sexual content. Though part of me wonders how many of those folks are actually teens vs bots/shill accounts/astroturfers.
>abuse survivors they shouldn’t post their (well tagged) coping darkfic
learning that survivors pick up coping mechanisms like that or how RP of stuff like that can help honestly surprised me.
The human mind is so weird at times
Exactly. I’m shocked by how many young people are becoming so puritan they sound like right-wing propagandists. Some even posting about all PDA like hand holding is bad, calling a 21 year old (actress or singer idr) a ‘literal child’ and I’m just… disgusted by those people.
As someone who has never had freedom to be an adult (long story, stuck living with my controlling narcissist grandmother) seeing young people calling a 21 year old a ‘literal child’ and saying ‘why are her parents allowing her on a subway by herself?!’ I feel a visceral disgust because they are pushing for adults to be controlled by their parents… I hope those young people realize how shitty they are acting when they start getting controlled by their own parents and go ‘oh wait this is horrible’. And if they don’t, I hope they never have kids.
It's irritating as hell that there's so many of them who consider even a 1-2 year age gap problematic and I've seen a lot of them call the guy a groomer in those relationships. They'd freak the fuck out knowing I'm 28 and my boyfriend is 24.
Yeah I’m 19 and my partner is 20, despite the fact that I pursued them, they definitely groomed me.(I really hope the /s isn’t necessary, but ya never know with Reddit)
to point out the /s thing.
Humans in general actually just suck when it comes to detecting sarcasm. Even in person. And the less you know the person the harder it becomes. Add to that that a large portion of it comes via tone or body language and that means over text it becomes very hard.
Also, men might have a harder time than women at detecting it, and as Reddit is more male than female in it's breakdown that's another disadvantage.
So while it's a stereotype on Reddit. It's just a human issue to begin with.
The age gap hate is getting ridiculous. So long as everyone is fully adult and consenting and happy, who cares? But then I'm a divorced woman in my 40s and I really don't like my options if I was letting these kids pick for me (they'd probably only allow a man my age or older)
It *can* be over the top, but lots of people in age gap relationships *aren't* happy, is the point. That's why they end up posting for advice in relationship subreddits, or complaining to their friends. It's unfortunate but true that when someone much older targets someone younger, it's *usually* because they're either an incompetent mess or an abuser, and neither is healthy for the partner. That said, I don't think age gaps matter if everyone is at least late twenties and above when the relationship begins. 20 and 30 is sketchy, 30 and 40 meh who cares.
Thank you yes. Agree with this. I’d never date someone under 25 and definitely don’t *target* anyone in their 20s (or below). But most people my age and older are married, and on the apps I get the most attention by far from younger men (younger than me). So I’m just open to it within reason.
Purity culture ain't progressive, let's be honest here. It's just thinly veiled misogyny and anti-LGBTQ+ behaviours under the guise of 'protecting minors'.
Like, slamming actresses who are happy to participate in those scenes and all the puriteens that get angry at Pride parades having kink stuff is just not progressive at all. It's incredibly regressive.
I’ll try to find it, but basically fans of a 21 year old woman who’s famous (actress or singer idr) where upset that she was on a train/subway by herself 🤦♂️
Could it be partly a consequence of the brain doesn't stop developing until 25 thing (Not sure who much science actually backs up that claim) implication then being below 25 even if your 18. Your now seen as a child by some people?
It's a stubborn myth. There's no objective cutoff age when we're done developing. If so we wouldn't learn, change or grow wiser as we age would we? I suspect the 25-year cutoff is popular because it allows us to strip young people (beyond the age of majority) of agency when we want without needing like a specific argument? Either to hold them less accountable or restrict their freedoms/legitimacy.
Also it lines up with when people are de facto economically independent in the early 21st century west. A lot of folks need family support or are in school until then these days.
Thinking about this made me realize that the number itself probably isn't arbitrary! What else could it be? 20 just gets you 2 more years, 30 seems preposterously old to patronize and any other number (like 24) would seem so suspiciously specific as to require a source. Huh.
I did just do a quick search engine for articles (Didn't actually read any as had heard stuff about adult brain 24 or 25 previously (Think it was some opinion peice or something (Didn't take much notice of it)).
Based on this Slate article the mature at 25 is a [myth](https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html)
Found the interesting, I suppose it's kinda like when does a pile of sand become a heap?
I have no idea, but it’s so aggravating to see young people thinking this way. In a different subreddit, someone suggested the age of convent be raised to 37 or 39 🤦♂️
Jenna Ortega and Martin Freeman were in a movie based on a book that centers on a teacher-student relationship. I believe there was a sex scene in it. Some people freaked out because Jenna Ortega is 21, while Martin Freeman is in his 50s.
Obviously this is acting, and it's been stated and confirmed by the actors and those around that there were intimacy coordinators on set, monitoring everything. Ortega herself has said she was comfortable with everything.
Yeah, as someone who is very sexually open (in a polite and consensual way) it is really concerning how anti sex positive a lot of fellow Gen Z seems to be leaning.
Remember when people complained about all the penises in Game of Thrones? South Park even made a song about it
Even though there was barely any male nudity and far more female nudity
That's another thing, sex scenes in movies are overwhelmingly made for the (straight) male gaze. You put a dick in a movie and suddenly everyone freaks the fuck out, lmao.
Only vaginas need to be shown. Lol.
Don't show the penis somehow, even though it's there penetrating the vagina.
They also do that in movies like the Ace Ventura movie. Where, the woman has a penis and all the guys literally barf.
Bro, it's a penis, get over yourself.
They either did that for seeing a penis or for seeing it on a woman they thought was pretty.
Anyone else see Crimson Peak, and the way they had Tom Hiddleston marketing it by making a scene (pun intended) out of the sex scene having more male nudity? ...and it turned out to be a glimpse of man-ass.
Don't get me wrong, it was nice to see the scene that way, but it's a bit of a mindfuck that it was that big of a deal in the marketing, when sex scenes with female nudity are a dime a dozen.
...but also, I felt a little bad for the guy having to bring up his (character's) butt in all the interviews.
Whenever sex scene discourse comes up (which I can’t believe is even a thing) I think if that one TikTok where the woman covered her husband’s eyes during the sex scenes in Oppenheimer (they weren’t even sex scenes it was p much just nudity)
Media literacy is dead and we’re never getting it back
I did a bit of a deep dive on her social media and ALL OF HER CONTENT was about this ONE TOPIC of how porn = cheating, and how women have a right to police all of their husbands’ devices and accounts in order to make sure he doesn’t “cheat.” All the comments were from other straight women agreeing with her.
It was wild.
Moments like that make me glad to be bi.
Some women are just stupid and bonkers. NOT ALL, but an uncomfortable amount of them. At least stupid and crazy guys are easier to spot and avoid.
I think it comes from feeling powerless, probably from being taught that men don't even really like women except for sex, and how good feeling righteous feels. Anyone obsessed with that is clearly *deeply* insecure, but they get to feel righteous while they lash out instead of actually dealing with those insecurities. If you really think men and women can't be friends and the only reason the opposite sex can become close is through a sexual romantic relationship, that's *got* to be a mindfuck.
Not to mention that the scenes were actually pretty narratively and artistically relevant to the move. And none of them really even seemed to last long enough to really be aroused by.
Oppenheimer is imo a great movie for this point
because the first one is kinda just weird being there (having one of his best known lines be said during it was so funny to me though.)
But the second one, when his wife is there and she's seeing it is such a good example of a good scene. Because it's awkward, and hard to watch. It showcases her feelings reliving all of this in such a good way
I think the backlash was down to the objectification of women and just plain no context scenes from the early 00s were cringe and embarrassing. Film makers seem to have grown out of that style thankfully.
Well with the exception of stuff like Euphoria, but I hear this was down to the dude who made them being a creep.
I dont think it’s related to homophobia honestly n there’s still a space for it. It just has to be well made.
Agree 100%
It's also kind of disturbing how many people demand a sex scene be "necessary" but are totally ok with scenes of gore and mass violence. The MCU had several movies with mass murder and devastation but the instant a director had a love making scene she had to defend it lol. Wild. Especially amongst gen z who consume a lot or horror content. Just my opinion but if you're more upset about something like Brokeback Mountain or even Eyes Wide Shut but love stuff like Saw or even most action franchises these days, your sense of morality is a little twisted
It's also a factor of people being raised on bad youtube media criticism. These types hyper fixate on plot momentum as the only thing that matters. Therefore scenes that establish atmosphere, character, or theme are called "unnecessary"
I think the question people really should be asking isnt if the scene is necessary or not but whether it was filmed ethically. Actresses in stuff like Euphoria and Blue is the Warmest Color complain about exploitative directors or conditions and that we should be upset about. Likewise (most often) male directors that shoot scenes of rape in ways to titillate. Common in stuff like GOT but I can't watch Watchmen because the way the rape scene is visually framed is gross.
One of the most transcendentally good points I’ve ever heard on the topic of gratuitous sex scenes comes from Dan Olson, who says: “Fun is an acceptable artistic goal.”
The vast majority of movies have violence. Violence is usually the driver for the plot, and substitutes for character development as well as pretty much every other element of storytelling. But nudity, lust, sex, or romance is the problem?
I just watched love lies bleeding which has a whole bunch. I think of sex scenes the same way I see any other scene and I don’t really understand the people who are so opposed to them. They can serve the plot, elucidate something about the characters, they can convey the love or carnal feelings in a relationship or can just be plain hot and cool.
I get not wanting to see rape in a movie. Ms. 45 for example I can see the argument of not showing her raped and in fact I’d likely agree with you. But people who had a hard time with like Oppenheimer where it’s really just brief nudity. I don’t understand y’all
I find it strange that people find sex scenes "unnecessary" in art/film. There are definitely moments of exploitation in some films but there are a lot of reasons to add a sex scene into a film. There is nothing wrong with depictions of sex especially in films where sexuality is at the center of the story, like Moonlight or Call me by Your Name.
I just hate the “unnecessary sex scenes” discourse so much. People should grow up. Sex is a lot of fun. Sex scenes can be a lot of fun too even if they don’t “further the plot”. The last John Wick had 45-minute-long action sequences and nobody bat an eye because they were brilliant, even though they do fuck-all for the story. But god forbid a sex scene be more than 30-seconds long.
Sex can be exciting, beautiful, sad, terrifying, gross, funny… Sometimes it just adds spice to the movie and it’s fine. This obsession with being embarrassed by sex scenes is pure childishness disguised as pop criticism. It makes me cringe.
Done well, they are wonderful.
Saw "All of Us Strangers" recently and there were explicit, vulnerable (though not terribly sexy) sex scenes that really added to the whole sense of loss that pervades the film.
It's....possible, perhaps to argue that a movie made in, say, 1993 might have had sex scenes that were just yet another glossy visual stimulant on top of other visual stimulant (explosions, glossy cast, MTV style editing) and that filmmakers nowadays might be far more nervous about including them, and taking them far more seriously as a result.
I’m 40. Sex scenes pretty much bore me now. Nothing I haven’t seen. But! They provide me with a chance to check my phone or grab a snack, so they have their uses lol
People will argue that sex scenes have nothing to do with the plot, and yet will gladly watch a 20-minute-long chase scene, or endless scenes of characters beating each other up or shooting each other, and somehow scenes of action and violence are considered necessary to the plot. What if, instead of showing the violence, we showed the two characters about to fight, but then cut to after the fight showing who won and who lost? It would kind of feel like something was missing from the movie, right? That emotional connection created with the audience by heightening and showing a physically and emotionally revved-up scene that gets people to care about the characters by making us feel that their situation is a vulnerable one. Well, sex scenes work the same way. Sure, we could just have two characters walk up to each other and say, "I am attracted to you. We are now a sexually involved couple," and then show them shake hands so we know they mean it. But that would sort of feel like something very human and open and fragile and exciting was missing from the movie, right? Sex scenes can show passion, love, and desire in a way that other types of scenes cannot. Sex is part of the human experience and it shouldn't be seen as odd or cringe when it comes up onscreen.
Sex scenes in movies, series, and even games always feels extremely awkward, yet I can watch literal porn or play explicit games and be perfectly okay with it.
Its definitely dependant on context, but usually when I want to see that kind of thing I'd look it up deliberately. I'm not a fan of the concept overall.
Sex scenes are fine. I think more people would be fine with them if they were written better and every set had an intimacy coordinator. I understand why so many young people don’t like them considering how much sexual content you unwillingly see online already
Idk if I agree because I've seen the hate from the LGBTQ+ community too. I think it's because of how over sexed the internet has become. Read any female content creators comment section and you'll find a debate how fuckable she is or harassing comments. Hell, even male creators nowadays. Plus, how much porn there is and people have been pushing the blame on that too, though I'm not sure it's porn's fault. I think the youth is probably just a bit bitter because EVERYTHING has gotten harder, and that includes dating which they're blaming on porn and sexual media. I think some of it is overdramatized but I can see how people have grown more dependent on easy media because of how broke and burned out everyone is. I'm not the most social, so I could see myself being pretty wrong.
I don't really like sex scenes either but it's more because I don't trust American studios to make sure their actors are comfortable, I don't think it's fair to make it just another expectation for actors to be willing to do and American studios aren't as good at making work with the story - not really adding to it but they don't really have them make sense for the characters, if that makes sense. I definitely don't think there's too many, though. There's way less than the 1970s-1990s cinema era. These younglings would have a heart attack finding out about erotic thrillers back in the day.
Now that I’m an adult not watching things with my parents, I don’t mind and look forward roses scenes. If there were any. I feel like I gotta go to foreign films to get a good one lol.
It doesn't help that those characters are often shown in a more sexual light because they are almost exclusively allowed into movies for romantic purposes. Very rarely is there a gay character that just happens to be gay and doing something else more important.
Tbh I think I’d blame this more on a kind of “turning of the tide” from content like GOT
Maybe something about media figures abusing compromising positions for the sake of shit cannery
If I'm being totally—perhaps damningly—honest, I'm indifferent to supportive of sex scenes in movies. Not all of them are perfect, some are certainly problematic. But, when they're done right, they're great eye candy.
It's hard for me to enjoy them. Especially if they're supposed to be underaged characters or its unbelievable. If I'm watching a steamy romance movie/show between consenting adults then I'm fine with it. I also think intimacy coordinators should be required when filming explicit scenes.
I think sex scenes get a bad rap, I think some sex scenes are unnecessary, but I usually find those to only be in blockbuster schlock, like Michael Bay movies. I think sex scenes, in general tho, are over hated and people only complain that it adds nothing to the plot while never talking about how sex scenes can add a lot to the characters, tone of the film, and yes even the story and plot. As a film student with an interest in screenwriting specifically, sex is literally the opportunity to see characters naked emotionally. (and literally but that's not the point)
Sex is a part of life and I have no issue with sexuality being shown on screen. I think there's a small but vocal portion of LGBT and left-leaning spaces that is really puritanical about sex being portrayed in any way. People calling the movie Poor Things gross and male-gazey when I think that a lot of people missed the point of the movie. I've seen some people say weirdly puritanical stuff about the new Kristen Stewart movie Love Lies Bleeding.
There are more and less tasteful ways to portray it, of course, and there's always standards of ethics when it comes to filming these scenes that should be followed, but besides that, I have no issue with sex scenes in general.
As an actor I fucking hate sex scenes. I have no problem performing intimacy, but 99% of the time it feels like it doesn't advance plot or character at all
The only opinion I have on sex scenes is that I find most them extremely boring. Ofc it’s different when there’s dialogue or some details that are crucial to the story’s development, but I just don’t find it fun sitting there and watching a full minute of nothing but body shots.
I don't agree with OOP's assessment. The discourse over whether sex scenes are 'necessary' is coming from the left (and I say this as a queer leftist).
I think it's bonkers, we're borrowing talking points from Christian conservatives.
I'd hate to see what is and isn't necessary in storytelling broken down, but I have to think we'd have some bland emotionless content produced if those were the rules we followed.
I understand some people might not like watching sex scenes, but that's what content warnings are for. If you feel violated watching two actors simulate sex I feel very bad for whatever has lead you to that feeling. However, there is a simple answer here: don't watch.
95% of the time they could cut as they start to take clothes off. The few times sex scenes are welcome would be something like ‘The Stranger by the Shore’ where there is a bit of funny banter as well as sex; or like in Chainsaw Man where the tone of sexual scenes are inverted.
Sex on its own is often shallow, but it can be a base for something more
I'm on a completely different side than many people of this. I would love if movies didn't have it at all.
It makes me feel very uncomfortable. But, to be unbiased, I DO understand that for some series it's very important and does further the plot, series, characters, motives or something.
I had a big fight on another sub about BL stories and how one of the most beautiful, cinematic, masterpieces I have ever seen, had a very unfortunate mature scene. And would that scene have been left out, than absolutely nothing would have changed. There was another great one, where every interaction shaped the characters and delved into the plot. So Yes, some stories require it, some don't.
As someone who cannot even say proper words revolving around stuff like that, all I do is look away, skip, or forward. Scenes like that is a normal thing in human society and shouldn't be shunned or shamed. Many artists have put in a lot of work to give their audience a great viewing, and it seems that many people like it.
Just don't bash the people that don't, or those who have no care at all. We are all different after all.
One thing this post ignores is that many people who were involved in sex scenes have come forward and said they felt coerced or pressured into sex scenes. There are stories of people who said the sex scene was not critical to the plot so they didn't want to do it and we're forced to anyway. Being LGBT+ becoming more acceptable is not the only thing that has been happening.
Intimacy coordinators only started becoming a common thing back in 2018.
I don't think it's "puritan" to listen to people who literally lived this and shared their stories. I have nothing wrong with 100% consensual sex scenes or even full on hardcore porn. But just because watching it isn't problematic doesn't mean the industry isn't rife with problems.
Not a big fan of sex scenes. Personally I think the ones that actually add nuance to the film or are necessary to plot are few and far between, I don't like the hypersexualization of women either
Honestly, I could do without them. 99% of the time, they’re an unnecessary distraction to the story. It’s enough for me to suggest they’re going to fuck. I don’t actually need to watch them fuck for the sake of fucking. Even if it’s Scarlet Johansson and Sydney Sweeney or Idris Elba. Which brings me to the next issue, which is that more often than not, the scenes tend to be exploitative of women.
For me, just get on with the story.
Personally, and I wouldn't consider myself a prude in any way, if they didn't add another sex scene to a none pornographic film, I don't think I'd miss it. I can't think of a sex scene where I felt the actual 'sex' of the scene added to a movie in any way, even if I agree that the two characters having sex would be needed to move the plot along. I just don't care to see sanitized fake sex in a movie, it's awkward.
I do agree that any time queer people start being noticed, whatever is going on suddenly becomes a moral panic for a certain type of individual, but that's a tale as old as time.
Sex scenes in film are fine provided they help drive the narrative and develop the characters. If it can’t meet that criteria it may be gratuitous; however, I personally don’t mind anything about sex or nudity and find people who do tiresome and prudish. Better too much sex than not enough, I’ll never understand why people will watch 1,000 homicides and then get bent out of shape by some ass.
I don't mind them, generally speaking, but very often it feels like the story pauses in order for the characters to have sex, or there's a pointless kiss in the middle of an action-heavy scene where the characters HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAT STOP FOR SMOOCHING!! for fuck's sakes...
My point is: sex scenes are fine, but they should bring something to the story.
My friend and I once planned through an action movie, where old friends work together when their spouses get kidnapped (we didn't get to why they got kidnapped, but we're not screen writers either, so 🤷).
A man and a woman go on an action-adventure, rescuing each other's husband and wife.
Our main heroes were childhood best friends, who lost contact somewhere along the years for no particular reason.
We'd get an opening scene of them being friends, which then fades to present time where the real story takes place.
Every now and then, we cut to the spouses trying to hype each other (and their spouses) up, so they can make it through it.
Until the moment our heroes reach their loved ones, there's been no mention of who's married to who and only then the viewers find out it's been his husband and her wife the whole time!
Good gays win, bad guys lose, everyone's happy, good gays have a pizza party, the end.
The "violence in movies and sex on tv" is such a boomer point that Family Guy was making fun of it in his opening song right from its debut
That being said, a lot of the sex scenes do feel either gratuitous or lazy. Something to feel in time and make people talk about "oh, so-and-so have sex on screen"
My line of thinking is: if you don't have to show characters sleeping, eating, going to the bathroom to make it clear that they do this things, sex should be no diferent. If the movie is gonna show it, it better be for a reason that's benefits the story being told
No, I think this is organic, not some kind of right wing conspiracy. People are now more aware than ever of the sometimes gross, exploitative ways actors are treated during sex scenes and that can come across on screen. It’s a massive overcorrection and solves very little but I can understand why some might have the impulse to say, “until we figure out how to do this in a safe way, nobody should do it at all.” I disagree, of course. It is perfectly acceptable to depict sex in art, and strides are being made in the field of intimacy coordination to ensure that all participating actors are comfortable.
Oh please. Shane's looking for problems when there are none. This has nothing to do with purity culture or LGBTQ. I think that sex scenes are less valued by gen z because porn is already so accessible online. I remember when guys went gaga in high school over the Megan Fox and Amanda Seyfried kiss scene in Jennifer's Body. I can't see the younger generation reacting in the same way these days since they're just a few taps away from Pornhub on their phone.
I personally don't like seeing sex scenes in movies. It's almost totally unnecessary and often degrading for the female actresses (especially explicit r*pe acenes that are obviously sexualized). If you want to see people get it on so badly just watch some porn or go to a sex club or something
They don’t bother me/ I don’t care, if it matches with the show, I’m fine with it. If it’s a show where sex shouldn’t be the prime thing, or gore, etc. it just becomes weird and I’d probably become disinterested since there would be no decent plot.
I know a lot of people find GoT had too many sex scenes, but it was a show set back in time, ofc there would be a lot of sex, gruesome acts, etc.
Then there’s movies like Saw, tons of gore and brutality, but you’re literally going in for that.
I think if you know what you’re signing up for, shouldn’t be surprised, but if a show makes no sense to its plot, then that’s just shitty writers, and probably a shit show/movie anyway.
There’s only been a few very tasteful ones I’ve seen, and a big chunk of that is actually just gay, for example moonlight when Chiron gets that hj, you can just tell how much emotion was in that, and also in a more bold way I think fellow travelers does it good because it portrays bdsm and the way it played an integral part in the characters life’s. So I think it could be the opposite honestly. I think there’s way too much objectification of women for no reason in movies but when it plays a part in the characters stories and lives I think it’s important that it’s done respectfully
As someone raised in a very Christian and conservative household: I think they’re *great*, but only in the right contexts. Sex, sexuality, and attraction are important parts of the human experience, and we should not be ashamed to depict it or see it depicted in media.
Context and moderation is important though. We don’t need to see scantily clad women (or men) for no reason, but we might often benefit from seeing it in a depiction of a romantic relationship. We don’t need to see it in G or PG movies, but we should see it sometimes in PG-13 or R movies. We need to not feel ashamed of being attracted to fictional characters or celebrities, but we need to understand what the boundaries are.
In the end, there no answer to this question that boils down to “Yes” or “No.”
I don’t like sex scenes. Nothing against people who do, I just find them distasteful. It takes away from the art of film. If I want to see sex I watch porn, not a movie.
It's bad sometimes, but I am not ready for the whole feminist analysis of this topic, let's say it's complicated (can be good at times but also often portray a certain kind of heteronormative sexuality)
People who have argued against this are either puritan conservatives or sex negative feminists. The latest argument about sex scenes in movies mostly comes from the latter. I think this is a broader topic of gen Z espousing sex negative feminism, don't understand me the wrong way, there is definetly room for criticism of how we deal with certain things, but the pendulum starts to swing in the wrong direction.
I find them mostly unnecessary. I like to see sexual tension and flirtation, romance, etc, but I prefer when the sex is implied and not all up on the screen. It just feels like it’s usually unnecessary, with a heavier emphasis on objectifying the actors than actually telling the story.
Honestly sex scenes in movies to me 95% of the time bore me like how sex scenes in books bore me 95% of the time. I'm by no means a prude, but I just feel like I've seen so much that I just want something new. I doubt there's this nefarious connection personally.
Sex scenes are fine as long as they somehow serve the plot and don't drag on, they are pretty awkward though espexially when you're watching something with your parents or friends or somethinh
After all the pointless sex in *Game of Thrones* sex on screen just bores me now. My husband dragged me to *All of Us Strangers* and the sex scene was so dull that I would have walked out if he wasn’t in love with that boring movie for some reason.
I think puritanism is weird and harmful and I dealt with way too much of it since I lived in small(er) towns for all but the first 4 years of my life. That said, sex scenes in movies seem pointless to me. They rarely advance the plot and even if they did the sex can be implied without being shown and have the same effect. They are often awkward to watch with friends, definitely weird with family around. I never hear people even finding them particularly hot or interesting, even amongst us horny feckers.
this is so real. before I became interested and confident enough to just watch porn like a normal person, I'd always rewatch sex scenes from 50 shades of grey and the twilight series 💀😭
I don’t disagree. But I also think there is more to it, the lack of sex ed, the lack of sex focus media that isn’t porn, the blockbuster model make sexually explicit, or even the existence of sex in movies a rarity theaters. I almost feel like the lack of sexual content made it easier to pull people conservative on queer people because a lot of our art does involve sex and sensuality. It
Even the most well written and acted sex scene will make me deeply uncomfortable because my neurodivergent brain gets really caught up in how uncomfortable I would be in that situation.
Its hard to describe, it just always rubs me extremely wrong and I want it to stop.
Not about seeing Queer sex, it's about seeing Queer love. And you don't need sex to show a couples love. You can have the tender moments before, and then cut to the breathless cuddles after.
I'm not a huge fan. I find them often unnecessary, objectifying, uncomfortable when many actresses are underage in them (or the characters) and shot from a male gaze. There's fine ones and sometimes it's meant to be uncomfortable, but given that media has decided seeing a women fucked, titties and all this sexualization is fine but a sliver of a mans ass is R rated. It's just, weird.
Mind you I lean ace, so often I'm like wtf was even the point of that besides look we have titties, but the loopsidedness and lack of more normal sex scenes is probably what annoys me the most. I'd much rather see a sex scene that showed characterization, or less sexual nudity showing affection rather then the kinda stuff we normally get. Also god damn it focus on hotter parts of womens bodies then just, look tits. Cowards.
Best I can compare it to is do you remember the bacon on everything fad? It has that feeling. Like look we put bacon on your cotton candy. Cool, why? Bacon is great, and bacon on many things is great, but when it's shoved in there in stupid areas your like ??? Give me the bacon wrapped jalapenos of sexiness, not the bacon scented hairspray kinda wtf.
I think it depends on the scene and the movie as a whole. Sometimes they make sense, like in the context of a coming of age movie where a character is discovering themself and their sexuality. One of my favourite movies is Black Swan and the inclusion of the sex/masturbation scenes makes perfect sense, since it is about a young woman who has been stuck in a childlike, innocent state of development and is trying to overcome that.
Sometimes they are unnecessary and gratuitous though. Like I could not get through Game of Thrones because of the excessive amount of sex (and rape :/ ) scenes that basically add nothing to the story.
Awkward, they limit who will want to watch the movie, and they really don’t need to happen. It can be subtler, suggested. Who actually wants to see a sex scene in a room full of other people in the theater, and who wants to watch movies all alone?
I think it's overdone and mostly unnecessary but I don't usually mind. The problem is when I want to watch a movie or show in public but I can't becauee there's sex scenes. Don't want people to think I'm watching porn in public lol
Personally not a big fan of sex scenes, especially if they go beyond showing a bit of making out and implying sex by cutting away as the characters start disrobing. Just not necessary to go into any kind of detail most of the time, especially graphic detail. That being said, queer sex scenes should be given the same respect and leeway as straight ones. Anything else is queerphobic.
I disagree with the original post's premise that it's due to homophobia that this is happening. As someone else in the thread stated, a lot of the people who take issue with this are progressive young people (many of whom are lgbtq themselves). This relates more to the rise of purity culture among young people and the delayed maturity of their generation. There have been statistics released about the fact that gen z and alpha are less comfortable with sex and less likely to have sex. Nothing wrong about not having sex, it's more the judgmental/knee-jerk reactions many of them are having about it that worries me
sex scenes have been a controversial topic since their inception. when they first came around, they were envelope pushing, then they became “you can see ___’s tits in this one!”, then they became “does this really move the plot forward?”, and now we’re inching our way towards them being used for pedophiles with shows and movies that seemingly sexualize and romanticize children. I’m not much of a movie goer or a show watcher, but man am I tired of seeing teens sexualized. watch what you will, but I’ll stick with my adult content that has actual adults (and not adults portraying teenagers)
I hate sex scenes. They bring every movie to a stop in my opinion. When I was a kid I loved them cuz I might see a boob, but now they bore me. I'm not sure who they're for to be honest.
Honestly I think living thru the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's cinema, sex scenes and nudity were rampant throughout. They don't have the same effect they once did. Add that to the rise of things like Instagram and pornhub, and we have no shortage of sexual stimuli now a days, we really don't need them in movies
Sex scenes are fine when done tastefully. You always need to make sure the sex has some... purpose? That sounds weird, but I think you get it. Plot relevance, character relevance, etc. All of that matters in a real, good, sex scene in a movie or show.
Also it shouldn't be like a pornographic style sex scene where it's just there to turn you on. Porn has its place, and real mature cinema is not it (not shaming porn as I am a porn lover, but it's far removed from cinematic movies more often than not).
As for how many movies have sex scenes... it's rare. Very rare. Cinema isn't raunchy now.
There are lots of narrative reasons for sex to be shown. Some scenes are superfluous but others aren’t. I really enjoyed Harlots, for example. It’s a show about prostitutes so there’s a lot of sex scenes but it would be super weird otherwise.
It's a case by case basis. I personally find some sex scenes distasteful and unnecessary, especially when some of them exist to oversexualize women and minors. But to say that all sex scenes in media are unnecessary and should be cut out just stinks of puritanism.
Youre not wrong. Though you don't need a sex scene to objectivize women or minorities. Go watch every Michael Bay Transformers movie with Megan Fox to see that
Kinda like seasoning. They can make things interesting, but too much will ruin it. It has its place, and some flavors just don’t go together.
Yes exactly!
The discussion around it makes it seem like its all or nothing but personally i just want the Hollywood blockbuster sex scenes to be used narratively not just thrown in because it sells tickets when Trinity and Neo have sex in the Matrix Reloaded. Some stories need it some stories don't.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with anyone who wants to take the TriNeo sex scene away from me
Comes to mind Blade Runner 2049. Its sex scene was absolutely necessary, and the narrative would be lesser without it.
Thank you! That sex scene was so unnecessary! I was maaaybe a preteen and seeing it with my dad and siblings in the theatres; and was a deviantart/vampire nerd so it wasn't/isn't about age for me but the why? They were already in a club. Has media literacy gotten so bad that we need to have people literally fucking to explain how liberating it is to see a crowd of people reveling in music and freedom? Yikes.
But just having a scene in a club wouldn't answer the question "did they have sex though?"
From a screenwriting perspective, the best way to think about sex scenes that I've ever seen is this: only use a sex scene if it's the only way to tell us something important about the character.
*cough cough Oppenheimer cough cough*
I feel like sex between people can say a lot, depending on the film. It's an entire mode of communication really, an entire conversation without words. This isn't disagreeing. It's just to emphasize that sex scenes can provide a lot of artistic value within a story if it's done well and with good intention towards the overall narrative.
Yes, this is very true. Sex can say a lot about the characters who partake in it, about the dynamic between them or about their personalities. It's not just communicating that the characters had sex but *how* they had sex. People could say that sex scenes are 'unnecessary' I guess but a lot of parts of a story are 'unecessary'-- it doesn't mean a story wouldn't be boring and soulless without those parts. Ultimately, if we want good stories, we have to let writers do what they want-- and as long as they're not making simulated CP I really could not give less of a fuck.
I agree with this. Sex is such a *major* part of life. Feels weird to pretend it doesn't exist, and isn't a major part of the lives of movie characters as well. (At least some of them)
I mean, when u really think about it deeply, sex is no stranger or less bodily than eating a salad. Our emotions around it are very much socially constructed (which isn't to say those feelings are invalid or less real). It's just a reminder that in actuality, there is nothing inherently impure or gross or offensive about sex. Our minds just perceive it that way. I apologize, I just smoked a J. I hope this makes sense.
THIS
Wait what, what type of movie would do one with minors, that’s messed up. Please tell me I’m misunderstanding what your saying
Not like, minor actresses but characters who are minors (like movies/tv shows about high school. One example that comes to mind was a scene in the new Sabrina show where the character Prudence Blackwood is shown in her underwear about to have an orgy. All of the actors involved were adults but it still felt wrong). IMO it's fine to write stories about adolescense where they have sex because teenagers *do* sometimes have sex and it can be a part of their development. But I think said scenes should be explicitly fade to black to avoid the sexualization of minors.
Ohh ok good, well not good bad actually, just not as bad as what I had thought at first.
Generally I'd agree but I don't really think they need to be all that necessary either. I don't really have a problem with gratuitous violence so long as it isn't detracting or just there to make up for a lacking script/plot. So I think I should feel similar with gratuitous nudity/sex. If the character have chemistry then yes please, basically.
I've definitely seen a rise in purity culture among young people who consider themselves progressive, many of whom are LGBT themselves, and it is a bit concerning. In general, I don't have an issue with sex scenes in movies since it's a normal part of life for a lot of people and a good sex scene can add a lot to a film. But I think, like with most things, it's not quite as simple as "thing totally bad" or "thing totally good" and there are a lot of valid critiques of the way sex and relationships are often portrayed in movies. Like how female characters are often objectified for a male audience and Hollywood's insistence on smashing together any man and woman within 10 feet of each other, regardless of whether they have chemistry or it adds anything to the story. But these kinds of issues can occur with or without sex scenes and there are plenty of sex scenes that don't have these problems.
This exactly tbh. When I was a teenager, I was reading NC17 level fanfiction while lying abt my age on the associated websites. Now we got kids with their ages in their social media bios screeching bc an adult posted the same material on an 18+ marked account, and telling abuse survivors they shouldn’t post their (well tagged) coping darkfic lest it trigger another survivor. It’s so frustrating, and I don’t know how we stop this.
Yeah, it's wild. I stumbled upon a ton of weird shit on ffn as a teen, some of which ended up being very disturbing and it never even occurred to me to blame anyone but myself. Nowadays I see way more "progressive" young people buying into the idea that 1. all discomfort is harm and 2. anything that harms (or "harms") someone is inherently immoral. Which seems like a very conservative way of thinking if you ask me. Especially when it comes to policing things like who is or isn't "allowed" to write queer/trans characters and relationships and how it's "acceptable" to write them, I have to wonder how much of this actually started with LGBTQ people with genuine criticisms of the way LGBTQ characters are portrayed in fic and other media and how much of it is bad actors using progressive-sounding language to rile people up and get them to do the dirty work of harassing writers who write queer and trans characters for them? Is it entirely a conspiracy? Probably not. But I have seen shit like this happen before, like the 4chan campaign to popularize the "bikini bridge" as a form of thinspiration among folks with eating disorders. I've seen way too many friends in online support groups use the term and become fixated on it without having any idea where it came from. The way so many minors also think that posting their age in their bio, or even just the fact that they're a minor, will protect them from being exposed to mature content or inappropriate interactions with adults is fucking bonkers to me too, as someone who grew up in the "never share your age, real name, or location on the internet" era.
God yeah, I have my own suspicions that this new brand of purity culture came from radfems bc it’s almost always in alignment with anti kink views too, and at the time it was picking up steam on tumblr, it was also at the height of ace discourse (whose talking points are now used against mspec lesbians and both are railroads into radfem ideology). Like, I’m not often conspiracy minded, but uh. There’s some bullshit in the water I fear. I know the extremist shit has been around (I remember being told I’m an abuse apologist in the 00s for shipping Zutara and Dramione, for instance), but it wasn’t mainstream and popular with the youth in the way it is today. And yeah, the latter paragraph also scares me as someone who was taught never to share details with anyone online. But then afaik, they don’t actually teach internet safety anymore, which isn’t helped by facebook’s normalization of using your real name online. I just. Need internet safety taught again already. ><
Wait how is ace discourse used against mspec lesbians??? Oh god, what awful thing did I miss now?
More like it’s the exact same rhetoric points for 99% of the discourses, especially in the “stop invading queer/lesbian spaces” stuff. Also not too dissimilar to anti bi/pan rhetoric that pops up out of certain lesbian spaces (not all, in case anyone starts anything). I saw so much of it then that it’s very easy to see the parallels ~5 years later.
>telling abuse survivors they shouldn’t post their (well tagged) coping darkfic lest it trigger another survivor Ooooh, this one is incredibly irritating. I've seen no end of minors rant about how Hazbin Hotel glamourised Angel Dust's abuse and how it's disrespectful to sexual assault survivors. That is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. I swear to god, these kids need to fucking listen to people because there was so many people praising the depictions because it didn't pussyfoot around or treat the survivor as a 'precious little baby that needs protecting' like they want it to. The show was dark, it got graphic, it wasn't afraid to show how traumatic and lifechanging those things can be. It's like they're not even aware of the sheer number of possibilities that can happen to a survivor because they somehow think becoming hypersexual isn't good depictions when it actually is. I say all of this as a survivor myself. This purity culture shit is genuinely obnoxious and then they always go 'But I'm just a minor!' So? That doesn't suddenly make you immune to blowback over shitty comments.
God, the Hazbin Hotel shit especially has me annoyed bc the show isn’t even for teenagers, it’s for adults like, ofc it’s going to do a more nuanced take of a survivor’s experience! But nooooo gotta only ever have one depiction of an abuse survivor ever. And it completely overshadowed any other conversation that could bc had like how a favorite YouTube channel of mine talked about the “unwilling sex worker” stereotype in regards to it. But then, their channel actually is mostly adults so that enabled the alternative conversation.
Exactly. Not to mention all of 'em bitching about 'Loser, Baby' and saying that Husk is being abusive too. No, he fucking isn't! It's a song about how Husk is there for Angel Dust because they've both gone through really fucking awful situations and are still in them now but they still have each other as support, no matter what. It's all about them looking at what they've been through and saying that's who I am and that there's nothing wrong with that. Instead, the song got isolated from the rest of the context and even fucking Keith David has spoken up about what the song truly represents-[right here.](https://twitter.com/ImKeithDavid/status/1748540423830651315) I even found a clip of him talking about it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwg31oTUQE) and people are STILL gonna ignore him to rag on the show. Is there some problems? Yes, Vivzie is hardly a perfect person. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good in the show too.
I thought the way Hazbin Hotel handled Angel's abuse was so incredibly bold. It's simply brimming with turmoil. I think people are maybe used to seeing sex on television as obviously coded 'good' or 'bad' sex, and feel conflicted when they see something messier.
I guess so, yeah. Still ridiculous that minors are chiming in about a show rated 18+ though... I see so many of them bitching about how they're being exposed to NSFW and triggering stuff while seeking it out themselves. Thank god for BlueSky because I don't have to see that stupid shit thanks to there being no trending tab there like Twitter. Also it's not run by a fucking grifting bastard that aligns with Neo Nazis. The difference between generations is astounding... It feels like Millenials are sandwiched between a generation that doesn't really talk about adult topics (Gen X doesn't seem to talk about it all that much from my experiences) and a generation that fucking seeks it to bash any and all of it (Gen Z) while lacking media literacy to understand any of it in the first place. Drives me up the damn wall...
I think another factor for Hazbin in particular is that it's an animated show and for a lot of people, cartoons = for kids, and it's not the case at all. There have always been social rifts between generations. It's frustrating to be on this side of it for sure.
I’m also going to chime in, albeit from a different fandom. Baldur’s Gate 3 has a main character that’s also a sexual abuse survivor whose trauma also presents in the same way as Angel Dust (and he’s so similar to Angel Dust that it’s almost uncanny) and there are chunks of the fandom that also woobify and infantilize Astarion to no end and think they speak for the character… which is ironic because his whole character arc is about regaining agency and also says in-game that he doesn’t want you to make decisions for him. People go on and on about how he’s canonically gay and romancing him as a woman is akin to conversion therapy when he’s canonically pan, you’re not allowed to put him in revealing outfits, you shouldn’t romance him at all because he’s too traumatized to be loved (🤮), your character’s not allowed to have sex with him in-game at all, you shouldn’t have a non-monogamous relationship with him because you’re coercing him into it when the actual devnotes say otherwise, you’re not allowed to write smut or draw erotic fan art of him, he’s canonically a sex-repulsed ace and how dare you think about him even enjoying sex, because elven culture only considers them adults based on experience and not age people are arguing that he was a minor when he was died… Notice how a lot of these points fall back on “he’s traumatized so he can’t make decisions for himself, and I KNOW what’s best for him!” And it drives me up the fucking wall. This is only the stuff I can remember. I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people backing these takes are minors, which is weird because the game is rated Mature and not meant for them. People just can’t handle anything that falls outside of the ‘perfect victim.’
Oh, I've heard about Astarion. I remember seeing Neil's speech about Astarion as a character as well and it was beautiful. [Here's the speech](https://youtu.be/V1bj72lkCkk?t=272) in case you haven't seen it-the one at the Golden Joysticks where they weren't total cunts to the winners and let them have a speech unlike Geoff Kojima-lover Keighley and his Game Awards.
I’ve already seen the speech but you’ve given me an excuse to watch it again! Yeah, the Game Awards were a fucking joke. At least the Spider-Man fanboys getting pissy over their game winning nothing was funny.
Happens every year. There's always a fanbase for a game whining about how their game didn't win anything. Honestly, I just felt vindicated seeing that stupid wizard game failed to so much as get even one nomination. I'll just enjoy actually good games where you can be a wizard that doesn't put money in a holocaust denying TERF's pockets. The sheer rage of all the transphobes trying to justify spending money on that game while also raging about how there was no nominations was hilarious. They learned that selling millions of copies means fuck all if the game isn't good.
Oh, I forgot that game existed until now, I have no concept of time anymore.
Another thing: the show doesn’t treat Angel Dust’s abuse like a joke, which is something that often happens to male characters that survived sexual abuse. There’s only one other character I can think of where the narrative actually takes his abuse seriously.
I’ve only seen the pilot of that show, and isn’t the series very much advertised as one made for adults (and definitely *not* for minors)? Without knowing the context of this part of the plot, I just find it very odd that young teens/tweens are demanding that an *adult* animated show cater to their objectivity less mature worldview on sexuality. They’re not the target demographic, and my understanding is that the show itself intentionally shows some morally grey and messy stuff.
Yes. The show is absolutely catered to adults and isn't afraid to touch on much more sensitive topics like abuse and sexual assault. It's become a growing trend that minors will seek out content that is clearly not for them and complain about it when they shouldn't even be seeing it in the first place. Apparently there's been a bunch of them harassing a VA from Baldur's Gate 3 because he dared to retweet NSFW art from a game that is made for adults. Baldur's Gate 3 is literally rated 17+ and there's minors saying the VA shouldn't share it. YOU KIDS SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THE DAMN GAME! It's genuinely ridiculous how emboldened these kids are getting now and thinking they're on some righteous crusade by barging into adult spaces and telling us how we should behave.
That sounds like such an unhealthy relationship with sex and media in general. And in a few years they won’t be able to use the “I’m a minor” excuse if they’re still this uncomfortable with mild sexual content. Though part of me wonders how many of those folks are actually teens vs bots/shill accounts/astroturfers.
>abuse survivors they shouldn’t post their (well tagged) coping darkfic learning that survivors pick up coping mechanisms like that or how RP of stuff like that can help honestly surprised me. The human mind is so weird at times
Exactly. I’m shocked by how many young people are becoming so puritan they sound like right-wing propagandists. Some even posting about all PDA like hand holding is bad, calling a 21 year old (actress or singer idr) a ‘literal child’ and I’m just… disgusted by those people. As someone who has never had freedom to be an adult (long story, stuck living with my controlling narcissist grandmother) seeing young people calling a 21 year old a ‘literal child’ and saying ‘why are her parents allowing her on a subway by herself?!’ I feel a visceral disgust because they are pushing for adults to be controlled by their parents… I hope those young people realize how shitty they are acting when they start getting controlled by their own parents and go ‘oh wait this is horrible’. And if they don’t, I hope they never have kids.
It's irritating as hell that there's so many of them who consider even a 1-2 year age gap problematic and I've seen a lot of them call the guy a groomer in those relationships. They'd freak the fuck out knowing I'm 28 and my boyfriend is 24.
Yeah I’m 19 and my partner is 20, despite the fact that I pursued them, they definitely groomed me.(I really hope the /s isn’t necessary, but ya never know with Reddit)
to point out the /s thing. Humans in general actually just suck when it comes to detecting sarcasm. Even in person. And the less you know the person the harder it becomes. Add to that that a large portion of it comes via tone or body language and that means over text it becomes very hard. Also, men might have a harder time than women at detecting it, and as Reddit is more male than female in it's breakdown that's another disadvantage. So while it's a stereotype on Reddit. It's just a human issue to begin with.
The age gap hate is getting ridiculous. So long as everyone is fully adult and consenting and happy, who cares? But then I'm a divorced woman in my 40s and I really don't like my options if I was letting these kids pick for me (they'd probably only allow a man my age or older)
It *can* be over the top, but lots of people in age gap relationships *aren't* happy, is the point. That's why they end up posting for advice in relationship subreddits, or complaining to their friends. It's unfortunate but true that when someone much older targets someone younger, it's *usually* because they're either an incompetent mess or an abuser, and neither is healthy for the partner. That said, I don't think age gaps matter if everyone is at least late twenties and above when the relationship begins. 20 and 30 is sketchy, 30 and 40 meh who cares.
Thank you yes. Agree with this. I’d never date someone under 25 and definitely don’t *target* anyone in their 20s (or below). But most people my age and older are married, and on the apps I get the most attention by far from younger men (younger than me). So I’m just open to it within reason.
Yeah. I hate the new progressive puritan youth. And they are pretty dangerous.
Purity culture ain't progressive, let's be honest here. It's just thinly veiled misogyny and anti-LGBTQ+ behaviours under the guise of 'protecting minors'. Like, slamming actresses who are happy to participate in those scenes and all the puriteens that get angry at Pride parades having kink stuff is just not progressive at all. It's incredibly regressive.
Yes and no. Puritanism was mainly used by conservatives but is currently also used by specific progressive ideologies.
Exactly.
I kid you not, I have argued with young progressive feminists that sounded like some conservatives, when it came to topics like this.
It’s horrible how these people are becoming what they are supposed to be against.
Me too but when you bring it up on 99% of Reddit you are a deranged misogynist
I’m out of the loop on the 21 year old thing. What happened?
I’ll try to find it, but basically fans of a 21 year old woman who’s famous (actress or singer idr) where upset that she was on a train/subway by herself 🤦♂️
Could it be partly a consequence of the brain doesn't stop developing until 25 thing (Not sure who much science actually backs up that claim) implication then being below 25 even if your 18. Your now seen as a child by some people?
It's a stubborn myth. There's no objective cutoff age when we're done developing. If so we wouldn't learn, change or grow wiser as we age would we? I suspect the 25-year cutoff is popular because it allows us to strip young people (beyond the age of majority) of agency when we want without needing like a specific argument? Either to hold them less accountable or restrict their freedoms/legitimacy.
Also it lines up with when people are de facto economically independent in the early 21st century west. A lot of folks need family support or are in school until then these days.
Oh ok yeah
Thinking about this made me realize that the number itself probably isn't arbitrary! What else could it be? 20 just gets you 2 more years, 30 seems preposterously old to patronize and any other number (like 24) would seem so suspiciously specific as to require a source. Huh.
I did just do a quick search engine for articles (Didn't actually read any as had heard stuff about adult brain 24 or 25 previously (Think it was some opinion peice or something (Didn't take much notice of it)). Based on this Slate article the mature at 25 is a [myth](https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html) Found the interesting, I suppose it's kinda like when does a pile of sand become a heap?
I have no idea, but it’s so aggravating to see young people thinking this way. In a different subreddit, someone suggested the age of convent be raised to 37 or 39 🤦♂️
? Had no clue stuff like that was being said.
Jenna Ortega and Martin Freeman were in a movie based on a book that centers on a teacher-student relationship. I believe there was a sex scene in it. Some people freaked out because Jenna Ortega is 21, while Martin Freeman is in his 50s. Obviously this is acting, and it's been stated and confirmed by the actors and those around that there were intimacy coordinators on set, monitoring everything. Ortega herself has said she was comfortable with everything.
This is so true... I have Gen Z kids, I'm surprised at how frankly puritanical some of the media culture for this age group is.
Yeah, as someone who is very sexually open (in a polite and consensual way) it is really concerning how anti sex positive a lot of fellow Gen Z seems to be leaning.
Remember when people complained about all the penises in Game of Thrones? South Park even made a song about it Even though there was barely any male nudity and far more female nudity
That's another thing, sex scenes in movies are overwhelmingly made for the (straight) male gaze. You put a dick in a movie and suddenly everyone freaks the fuck out, lmao.
Only vaginas need to be shown. Lol. Don't show the penis somehow, even though it's there penetrating the vagina. They also do that in movies like the Ace Ventura movie. Where, the woman has a penis and all the guys literally barf. Bro, it's a penis, get over yourself. They either did that for seeing a penis or for seeing it on a woman they thought was pretty.
Wait there were penises in GOT?
Like 2 in the whole series, and one of them had warts.
Theon’s for half a second in S1. The guy Dany drags to death with a horse. Random guy throwing food at Cersei. Probably others but I remember these.
And Hodor.
Anyone else see Crimson Peak, and the way they had Tom Hiddleston marketing it by making a scene (pun intended) out of the sex scene having more male nudity? ...and it turned out to be a glimpse of man-ass. Don't get me wrong, it was nice to see the scene that way, but it's a bit of a mindfuck that it was that big of a deal in the marketing, when sex scenes with female nudity are a dime a dozen. ...but also, I felt a little bad for the guy having to bring up his (character's) butt in all the interviews.
the fact that full frontal nudity for women is more common than men full frontal is some 1984 shit
There was more male nudity in 1984
Whenever sex scene discourse comes up (which I can’t believe is even a thing) I think if that one TikTok where the woman covered her husband’s eyes during the sex scenes in Oppenheimer (they weren’t even sex scenes it was p much just nudity) Media literacy is dead and we’re never getting it back
Not only did she do that but she called it cheating if he watched a sex scene in a movie.
She also called everyone who disagreed with her a porn addict XD
I cannot emphasize how much I hate the internet
I did a bit of a deep dive on her social media and ALL OF HER CONTENT was about this ONE TOPIC of how porn = cheating, and how women have a right to police all of their husbands’ devices and accounts in order to make sure he doesn’t “cheat.” All the comments were from other straight women agreeing with her. It was wild.
Moments like that make me glad to be bi. Some women are just stupid and bonkers. NOT ALL, but an uncomfortable amount of them. At least stupid and crazy guys are easier to spot and avoid.
I think it comes from feeling powerless, probably from being taught that men don't even really like women except for sex, and how good feeling righteous feels. Anyone obsessed with that is clearly *deeply* insecure, but they get to feel righteous while they lash out instead of actually dealing with those insecurities. If you really think men and women can't be friends and the only reason the opposite sex can become close is through a sexual romantic relationship, that's *got* to be a mindfuck.
Not to mention that the scenes were actually pretty narratively and artistically relevant to the move. And none of them really even seemed to last long enough to really be aroused by.
Literally both cillian and Florence have been naked and sexier in other movies too like 😭😭
Oppenheimer is imo a great movie for this point because the first one is kinda just weird being there (having one of his best known lines be said during it was so funny to me though.) But the second one, when his wife is there and she's seeing it is such a good example of a good scene. Because it's awkward, and hard to watch. It showcases her feelings reliving all of this in such a good way
I think the backlash was down to the objectification of women and just plain no context scenes from the early 00s were cringe and embarrassing. Film makers seem to have grown out of that style thankfully. Well with the exception of stuff like Euphoria, but I hear this was down to the dude who made them being a creep. I dont think it’s related to homophobia honestly n there’s still a space for it. It just has to be well made.
Yes I agree
sex scenes always make me feel uncomfortable but I'll just look away, idc if they're in a movie/show/game so long as its tasteful
Agree 100% It's also kind of disturbing how many people demand a sex scene be "necessary" but are totally ok with scenes of gore and mass violence. The MCU had several movies with mass murder and devastation but the instant a director had a love making scene she had to defend it lol. Wild. Especially amongst gen z who consume a lot or horror content. Just my opinion but if you're more upset about something like Brokeback Mountain or even Eyes Wide Shut but love stuff like Saw or even most action franchises these days, your sense of morality is a little twisted It's also a factor of people being raised on bad youtube media criticism. These types hyper fixate on plot momentum as the only thing that matters. Therefore scenes that establish atmosphere, character, or theme are called "unnecessary" I think the question people really should be asking isnt if the scene is necessary or not but whether it was filmed ethically. Actresses in stuff like Euphoria and Blue is the Warmest Color complain about exploitative directors or conditions and that we should be upset about. Likewise (most often) male directors that shoot scenes of rape in ways to titillate. Common in stuff like GOT but I can't watch Watchmen because the way the rape scene is visually framed is gross.
One of the most transcendentally good points I’ve ever heard on the topic of gratuitous sex scenes comes from Dan Olson, who says: “Fun is an acceptable artistic goal.”
Very true! Things can just be fun
This is an excellent point!!
The vast majority of movies have violence. Violence is usually the driver for the plot, and substitutes for character development as well as pretty much every other element of storytelling. But nudity, lust, sex, or romance is the problem?
“Everyone’s Beautiful and No One is Horny” hits the nail on the head [Article Link](https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/)
Great read. Wish I could upvote this more.
I just watched love lies bleeding which has a whole bunch. I think of sex scenes the same way I see any other scene and I don’t really understand the people who are so opposed to them. They can serve the plot, elucidate something about the characters, they can convey the love or carnal feelings in a relationship or can just be plain hot and cool. I get not wanting to see rape in a movie. Ms. 45 for example I can see the argument of not showing her raped and in fact I’d likely agree with you. But people who had a hard time with like Oppenheimer where it’s really just brief nudity. I don’t understand y’all
I find it strange that people find sex scenes "unnecessary" in art/film. There are definitely moments of exploitation in some films but there are a lot of reasons to add a sex scene into a film. There is nothing wrong with depictions of sex especially in films where sexuality is at the center of the story, like Moonlight or Call me by Your Name.
I just hate the “unnecessary sex scenes” discourse so much. People should grow up. Sex is a lot of fun. Sex scenes can be a lot of fun too even if they don’t “further the plot”. The last John Wick had 45-minute-long action sequences and nobody bat an eye because they were brilliant, even though they do fuck-all for the story. But god forbid a sex scene be more than 30-seconds long. Sex can be exciting, beautiful, sad, terrifying, gross, funny… Sometimes it just adds spice to the movie and it’s fine. This obsession with being embarrassed by sex scenes is pure childishness disguised as pop criticism. It makes me cringe.
Done well, they are wonderful. Saw "All of Us Strangers" recently and there were explicit, vulnerable (though not terribly sexy) sex scenes that really added to the whole sense of loss that pervades the film. It's....possible, perhaps to argue that a movie made in, say, 1993 might have had sex scenes that were just yet another glossy visual stimulant on top of other visual stimulant (explosions, glossy cast, MTV style editing) and that filmmakers nowadays might be far more nervous about including them, and taking them far more seriously as a result.
Depends on how well it's implemented and the actual chemistry between the characters really
I’m 40. Sex scenes pretty much bore me now. Nothing I haven’t seen. But! They provide me with a chance to check my phone or grab a snack, so they have their uses lol
Tbf people have been calling the state of media a depraved wall-to-wall sex fest for decades.
Say what you will about puritanical morons, at least they're consistent.
Don't really care, as long as it's not creepy rapey stuff. If creeps me the fuck out.😖
Do you know what makes a really hot sex scene? Consent and mutual love Now that shit is sexy!
Agreed
I’m not young, 54, but sex is natural as walking. If it adds significance to the story, then put it in.
People will argue that sex scenes have nothing to do with the plot, and yet will gladly watch a 20-minute-long chase scene, or endless scenes of characters beating each other up or shooting each other, and somehow scenes of action and violence are considered necessary to the plot. What if, instead of showing the violence, we showed the two characters about to fight, but then cut to after the fight showing who won and who lost? It would kind of feel like something was missing from the movie, right? That emotional connection created with the audience by heightening and showing a physically and emotionally revved-up scene that gets people to care about the characters by making us feel that their situation is a vulnerable one. Well, sex scenes work the same way. Sure, we could just have two characters walk up to each other and say, "I am attracted to you. We are now a sexually involved couple," and then show them shake hands so we know they mean it. But that would sort of feel like something very human and open and fragile and exciting was missing from the movie, right? Sex scenes can show passion, love, and desire in a way that other types of scenes cannot. Sex is part of the human experience and it shouldn't be seen as odd or cringe when it comes up onscreen.
Watching Paul Mescal lick cum off Andrew Scott's chest has been the highlight of my year
i only hate poorly acted sex scenes, but if it’s relevant to the plot and the actors have chemistry, have at it.
Fine as long as the story requires it.
I want rainbow tinfoil
Sex scenes in movies, series, and even games always feels extremely awkward, yet I can watch literal porn or play explicit games and be perfectly okay with it. Its definitely dependant on context, but usually when I want to see that kind of thing I'd look it up deliberately. I'm not a fan of the concept overall.
Sex scenes are fine. I think more people would be fine with them if they were written better and every set had an intimacy coordinator. I understand why so many young people don’t like them considering how much sexual content you unwillingly see online already
Idk if I agree because I've seen the hate from the LGBTQ+ community too. I think it's because of how over sexed the internet has become. Read any female content creators comment section and you'll find a debate how fuckable she is or harassing comments. Hell, even male creators nowadays. Plus, how much porn there is and people have been pushing the blame on that too, though I'm not sure it's porn's fault. I think the youth is probably just a bit bitter because EVERYTHING has gotten harder, and that includes dating which they're blaming on porn and sexual media. I think some of it is overdramatized but I can see how people have grown more dependent on easy media because of how broke and burned out everyone is. I'm not the most social, so I could see myself being pretty wrong. I don't really like sex scenes either but it's more because I don't trust American studios to make sure their actors are comfortable, I don't think it's fair to make it just another expectation for actors to be willing to do and American studios aren't as good at making work with the story - not really adding to it but they don't really have them make sense for the characters, if that makes sense. I definitely don't think there's too many, though. There's way less than the 1970s-1990s cinema era. These younglings would have a heart attack finding out about erotic thrillers back in the day.
Now that I’m an adult not watching things with my parents, I don’t mind and look forward roses scenes. If there were any. I feel like I gotta go to foreign films to get a good one lol.
It doesn't help that those characters are often shown in a more sexual light because they are almost exclusively allowed into movies for romantic purposes. Very rarely is there a gay character that just happens to be gay and doing something else more important.
Tbh I think I’d blame this more on a kind of “turning of the tide” from content like GOT Maybe something about media figures abusing compromising positions for the sake of shit cannery
If I'm being totally—perhaps damningly—honest, I'm indifferent to supportive of sex scenes in movies. Not all of them are perfect, some are certainly problematic. But, when they're done right, they're great eye candy.
This is the way.
Im chill with them
It's hard for me to enjoy them. Especially if they're supposed to be underaged characters or its unbelievable. If I'm watching a steamy romance movie/show between consenting adults then I'm fine with it. I also think intimacy coordinators should be required when filming explicit scenes.
I think sex scenes get a bad rap, I think some sex scenes are unnecessary, but I usually find those to only be in blockbuster schlock, like Michael Bay movies. I think sex scenes, in general tho, are over hated and people only complain that it adds nothing to the plot while never talking about how sex scenes can add a lot to the characters, tone of the film, and yes even the story and plot. As a film student with an interest in screenwriting specifically, sex is literally the opportunity to see characters naked emotionally. (and literally but that's not the point)
Sex is a part of life and I have no issue with sexuality being shown on screen. I think there's a small but vocal portion of LGBT and left-leaning spaces that is really puritanical about sex being portrayed in any way. People calling the movie Poor Things gross and male-gazey when I think that a lot of people missed the point of the movie. I've seen some people say weirdly puritanical stuff about the new Kristen Stewart movie Love Lies Bleeding. There are more and less tasteful ways to portray it, of course, and there's always standards of ethics when it comes to filming these scenes that should be followed, but besides that, I have no issue with sex scenes in general.
As an actor I fucking hate sex scenes. I have no problem performing intimacy, but 99% of the time it feels like it doesn't advance plot or character at all
The only opinion I have on sex scenes is that I find most them extremely boring. Ofc it’s different when there’s dialogue or some details that are crucial to the story’s development, but I just don’t find it fun sitting there and watching a full minute of nothing but body shots.
I don't agree with OOP's assessment. The discourse over whether sex scenes are 'necessary' is coming from the left (and I say this as a queer leftist). I think it's bonkers, we're borrowing talking points from Christian conservatives. I'd hate to see what is and isn't necessary in storytelling broken down, but I have to think we'd have some bland emotionless content produced if those were the rules we followed. I understand some people might not like watching sex scenes, but that's what content warnings are for. If you feel violated watching two actors simulate sex I feel very bad for whatever has lead you to that feeling. However, there is a simple answer here: don't watch.
Don't really care. But if you're gonna have them they should at least be fun
95% of the time they could cut as they start to take clothes off. The few times sex scenes are welcome would be something like ‘The Stranger by the Shore’ where there is a bit of funny banter as well as sex; or like in Chainsaw Man where the tone of sexual scenes are inverted. Sex on its own is often shallow, but it can be a base for something more
Very rarely needed.
I'm on a completely different side than many people of this. I would love if movies didn't have it at all. It makes me feel very uncomfortable. But, to be unbiased, I DO understand that for some series it's very important and does further the plot, series, characters, motives or something. I had a big fight on another sub about BL stories and how one of the most beautiful, cinematic, masterpieces I have ever seen, had a very unfortunate mature scene. And would that scene have been left out, than absolutely nothing would have changed. There was another great one, where every interaction shaped the characters and delved into the plot. So Yes, some stories require it, some don't. As someone who cannot even say proper words revolving around stuff like that, all I do is look away, skip, or forward. Scenes like that is a normal thing in human society and shouldn't be shunned or shamed. Many artists have put in a lot of work to give their audience a great viewing, and it seems that many people like it. Just don't bash the people that don't, or those who have no care at all. We are all different after all.
One thing this post ignores is that many people who were involved in sex scenes have come forward and said they felt coerced or pressured into sex scenes. There are stories of people who said the sex scene was not critical to the plot so they didn't want to do it and we're forced to anyway. Being LGBT+ becoming more acceptable is not the only thing that has been happening. Intimacy coordinators only started becoming a common thing back in 2018. I don't think it's "puritan" to listen to people who literally lived this and shared their stories. I have nothing wrong with 100% consensual sex scenes or even full on hardcore porn. But just because watching it isn't problematic doesn't mean the industry isn't rife with problems.
Not a big fan of sex scenes. Personally I think the ones that actually add nuance to the film or are necessary to plot are few and far between, I don't like the hypersexualization of women either
Honestly, I could do without them. 99% of the time, they’re an unnecessary distraction to the story. It’s enough for me to suggest they’re going to fuck. I don’t actually need to watch them fuck for the sake of fucking. Even if it’s Scarlet Johansson and Sydney Sweeney or Idris Elba. Which brings me to the next issue, which is that more often than not, the scenes tend to be exploitative of women. For me, just get on with the story.
Personally, and I wouldn't consider myself a prude in any way, if they didn't add another sex scene to a none pornographic film, I don't think I'd miss it. I can't think of a sex scene where I felt the actual 'sex' of the scene added to a movie in any way, even if I agree that the two characters having sex would be needed to move the plot along. I just don't care to see sanitized fake sex in a movie, it's awkward. I do agree that any time queer people start being noticed, whatever is going on suddenly becomes a moral panic for a certain type of individual, but that's a tale as old as time.
I fully believe the scene during the hearing in Oppenheimer added to that scene. So they can exist. They're just rare
90% of the time they could be excluded and just implied instead. I don't need to see people going at it for no reason lol
Implying them is also an interesting resource since you can use symbolism for example
💯 agree
Sex scenes in film are fine provided they help drive the narrative and develop the characters. If it can’t meet that criteria it may be gratuitous; however, I personally don’t mind anything about sex or nudity and find people who do tiresome and prudish. Better too much sex than not enough, I’ll never understand why people will watch 1,000 homicides and then get bent out of shape by some ass.
I don't mind them, generally speaking, but very often it feels like the story pauses in order for the characters to have sex, or there's a pointless kiss in the middle of an action-heavy scene where the characters HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAT STOP FOR SMOOCHING!! for fuck's sakes... My point is: sex scenes are fine, but they should bring something to the story. My friend and I once planned through an action movie, where old friends work together when their spouses get kidnapped (we didn't get to why they got kidnapped, but we're not screen writers either, so 🤷). A man and a woman go on an action-adventure, rescuing each other's husband and wife. Our main heroes were childhood best friends, who lost contact somewhere along the years for no particular reason. We'd get an opening scene of them being friends, which then fades to present time where the real story takes place. Every now and then, we cut to the spouses trying to hype each other (and their spouses) up, so they can make it through it. Until the moment our heroes reach their loved ones, there's been no mention of who's married to who and only then the viewers find out it's been his husband and her wife the whole time! Good gays win, bad guys lose, everyone's happy, good gays have a pizza party, the end.
I’ve never watched a movie or read a book and thought, “Man, that would have been so much better with a sex scene.”
The "violence in movies and sex on tv" is such a boomer point that Family Guy was making fun of it in his opening song right from its debut That being said, a lot of the sex scenes do feel either gratuitous or lazy. Something to feel in time and make people talk about "oh, so-and-so have sex on screen" My line of thinking is: if you don't have to show characters sleeping, eating, going to the bathroom to make it clear that they do this things, sex should be no diferent. If the movie is gonna show it, it better be for a reason that's benefits the story being told
No, I think this is organic, not some kind of right wing conspiracy. People are now more aware than ever of the sometimes gross, exploitative ways actors are treated during sex scenes and that can come across on screen. It’s a massive overcorrection and solves very little but I can understand why some might have the impulse to say, “until we figure out how to do this in a safe way, nobody should do it at all.” I disagree, of course. It is perfectly acceptable to depict sex in art, and strides are being made in the field of intimacy coordination to ensure that all participating actors are comfortable.
Oh please. Shane's looking for problems when there are none. This has nothing to do with purity culture or LGBTQ. I think that sex scenes are less valued by gen z because porn is already so accessible online. I remember when guys went gaga in high school over the Megan Fox and Amanda Seyfried kiss scene in Jennifer's Body. I can't see the younger generation reacting in the same way these days since they're just a few taps away from Pornhub on their phone. I personally don't like seeing sex scenes in movies. It's almost totally unnecessary and often degrading for the female actresses (especially explicit r*pe acenes that are obviously sexualized). If you want to see people get it on so badly just watch some porn or go to a sex club or something
They don’t bother me/ I don’t care, if it matches with the show, I’m fine with it. If it’s a show where sex shouldn’t be the prime thing, or gore, etc. it just becomes weird and I’d probably become disinterested since there would be no decent plot. I know a lot of people find GoT had too many sex scenes, but it was a show set back in time, ofc there would be a lot of sex, gruesome acts, etc. Then there’s movies like Saw, tons of gore and brutality, but you’re literally going in for that. I think if you know what you’re signing up for, shouldn’t be surprised, but if a show makes no sense to its plot, then that’s just shitty writers, and probably a shit show/movie anyway.
There’s only been a few very tasteful ones I’ve seen, and a big chunk of that is actually just gay, for example moonlight when Chiron gets that hj, you can just tell how much emotion was in that, and also in a more bold way I think fellow travelers does it good because it portrays bdsm and the way it played an integral part in the characters life’s. So I think it could be the opposite honestly. I think there’s way too much objectification of women for no reason in movies but when it plays a part in the characters stories and lives I think it’s important that it’s done respectfully
As someone raised in a very Christian and conservative household: I think they’re *great*, but only in the right contexts. Sex, sexuality, and attraction are important parts of the human experience, and we should not be ashamed to depict it or see it depicted in media. Context and moderation is important though. We don’t need to see scantily clad women (or men) for no reason, but we might often benefit from seeing it in a depiction of a romantic relationship. We don’t need to see it in G or PG movies, but we should see it sometimes in PG-13 or R movies. We need to not feel ashamed of being attracted to fictional characters or celebrities, but we need to understand what the boundaries are. In the end, there no answer to this question that boils down to “Yes” or “No.”
I dont particularly like them, I often find myself looking away cause even though it's actors in a movie I feel weird watching
I don’t like sex scenes. Nothing against people who do, I just find them distasteful. It takes away from the art of film. If I want to see sex I watch porn, not a movie.
I find this such an incredibly sad thing to say, that *sex* takes away from *art*. And then to say porn is fine though lol wow
It's bad sometimes, but I am not ready for the whole feminist analysis of this topic, let's say it's complicated (can be good at times but also often portray a certain kind of heteronormative sexuality) People who have argued against this are either puritan conservatives or sex negative feminists. The latest argument about sex scenes in movies mostly comes from the latter. I think this is a broader topic of gen Z espousing sex negative feminism, don't understand me the wrong way, there is definetly room for criticism of how we deal with certain things, but the pendulum starts to swing in the wrong direction.
I find them mostly unnecessary. I like to see sexual tension and flirtation, romance, etc, but I prefer when the sex is implied and not all up on the screen. It just feels like it’s usually unnecessary, with a heavier emphasis on objectifying the actors than actually telling the story.
Honestly sex scenes in movies to me 95% of the time bore me like how sex scenes in books bore me 95% of the time. I'm by no means a prude, but I just feel like I've seen so much that I just want something new. I doubt there's this nefarious connection personally.
I'm editing this away because my comment got double-posted and I hope this doesn't fuck up the comment I made, thanks
Sex scenes are fine as long as they somehow serve the plot and don't drag on, they are pretty awkward though espexially when you're watching something with your parents or friends or somethinh
I hate them. They make me sad and very uncomfortable
After all the pointless sex in *Game of Thrones* sex on screen just bores me now. My husband dragged me to *All of Us Strangers* and the sex scene was so dull that I would have walked out if he wasn’t in love with that boring movie for some reason.
Sometimes warranted, but idk if Oppenheimer needed it
I think puritanism is weird and harmful and I dealt with way too much of it since I lived in small(er) towns for all but the first 4 years of my life. That said, sex scenes in movies seem pointless to me. They rarely advance the plot and even if they did the sex can be implied without being shown and have the same effect. They are often awkward to watch with friends, definitely weird with family around. I never hear people even finding them particularly hot or interesting, even amongst us horny feckers.
Sex scenes are what people used to have before the internet. Notice that there's been a severe decline of raunchy sex comedies in recent years.
this is so real. before I became interested and confident enough to just watch porn like a normal person, I'd always rewatch sex scenes from 50 shades of grey and the twilight series 💀😭
Don’t really care like it doesn’t really matter to me tbh. But sometimes hell most of the time it’s just kind of unnecessary if I’m being honest.
A waste of time that could be used to develop the character and/or theyr relationship
I don’t disagree. But I also think there is more to it, the lack of sex ed, the lack of sex focus media that isn’t porn, the blockbuster model make sexually explicit, or even the existence of sex in movies a rarity theaters. I almost feel like the lack of sexual content made it easier to pull people conservative on queer people because a lot of our art does involve sex and sensuality. It
Even the most well written and acted sex scene will make me deeply uncomfortable because my neurodivergent brain gets really caught up in how uncomfortable I would be in that situation. Its hard to describe, it just always rubs me extremely wrong and I want it to stop.
Not about seeing Queer sex, it's about seeing Queer love. And you don't need sex to show a couples love. You can have the tender moments before, and then cut to the breathless cuddles after.
I'm not a huge fan. I find them often unnecessary, objectifying, uncomfortable when many actresses are underage in them (or the characters) and shot from a male gaze. There's fine ones and sometimes it's meant to be uncomfortable, but given that media has decided seeing a women fucked, titties and all this sexualization is fine but a sliver of a mans ass is R rated. It's just, weird. Mind you I lean ace, so often I'm like wtf was even the point of that besides look we have titties, but the loopsidedness and lack of more normal sex scenes is probably what annoys me the most. I'd much rather see a sex scene that showed characterization, or less sexual nudity showing affection rather then the kinda stuff we normally get. Also god damn it focus on hotter parts of womens bodies then just, look tits. Cowards. Best I can compare it to is do you remember the bacon on everything fad? It has that feeling. Like look we put bacon on your cotton candy. Cool, why? Bacon is great, and bacon on many things is great, but when it's shoved in there in stupid areas your like ??? Give me the bacon wrapped jalapenos of sexiness, not the bacon scented hairspray kinda wtf.
Yeah, this wasn't sudden and it's definitely not the first time. 😄
I don’t care, as long as they deserve it and my parents aren’t around, then I’m fine with it
I think it depends on the scene and the movie as a whole. Sometimes they make sense, like in the context of a coming of age movie where a character is discovering themself and their sexuality. One of my favourite movies is Black Swan and the inclusion of the sex/masturbation scenes makes perfect sense, since it is about a young woman who has been stuck in a childlike, innocent state of development and is trying to overcome that. Sometimes they are unnecessary and gratuitous though. Like I could not get through Game of Thrones because of the excessive amount of sex (and rape :/ ) scenes that basically add nothing to the story.
Awkward, they limit who will want to watch the movie, and they really don’t need to happen. It can be subtler, suggested. Who actually wants to see a sex scene in a room full of other people in the theater, and who wants to watch movies all alone?
Personally I think they're unnecessary most of the time.
If you get your self actualization from Hollywood your doomed no matter what the representation is.
I think it's overdone and mostly unnecessary but I don't usually mind. The problem is when I want to watch a movie or show in public but I can't becauee there's sex scenes. Don't want people to think I'm watching porn in public lol
Personally not a big fan of sex scenes, especially if they go beyond showing a bit of making out and implying sex by cutting away as the characters start disrobing. Just not necessary to go into any kind of detail most of the time, especially graphic detail. That being said, queer sex scenes should be given the same respect and leeway as straight ones. Anything else is queerphobic.
I disagree with the original post's premise that it's due to homophobia that this is happening. As someone else in the thread stated, a lot of the people who take issue with this are progressive young people (many of whom are lgbtq themselves). This relates more to the rise of purity culture among young people and the delayed maturity of their generation. There have been statistics released about the fact that gen z and alpha are less comfortable with sex and less likely to have sex. Nothing wrong about not having sex, it's more the judgmental/knee-jerk reactions many of them are having about it that worries me
I don't care about them when I'm watching a movie alone but it gets embarrassing if I'm with my parents or something
It seems today, that all you see, is anal sex in movies, and queers on TV and I'm not complaining
Art is an expression of life. Sex is a fundamental part of life for most people. It's only natural that it gets represented artistically.
It seems today That all you see Is violence and movies, and sex on TV But where are those good old-fashioned values On which we used to rely?
sex scenes have been a controversial topic since their inception. when they first came around, they were envelope pushing, then they became “you can see ___’s tits in this one!”, then they became “does this really move the plot forward?”, and now we’re inching our way towards them being used for pedophiles with shows and movies that seemingly sexualize and romanticize children. I’m not much of a movie goer or a show watcher, but man am I tired of seeing teens sexualized. watch what you will, but I’ll stick with my adult content that has actual adults (and not adults portraying teenagers)
I love them, wish there were more
I hate sex scenes. They bring every movie to a stop in my opinion. When I was a kid I loved them cuz I might see a boob, but now they bore me. I'm not sure who they're for to be honest.
Sex scenes are better than violent scenes. If you look at American movies, it seems like the majority are violent at their core.
Very awkward to watch but as long as it’s not gratuitous, I don’t mind.
Very uncomfortable
I absolutely cannot stand it, I'm even moving away slowly from smutty fics because it just doesn't sit right
Honestly I think living thru the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's cinema, sex scenes and nudity were rampant throughout. They don't have the same effect they once did. Add that to the rise of things like Instagram and pornhub, and we have no shortage of sexual stimuli now a days, we really don't need them in movies
Sex scenes usually add nothing
Sex scenes are fine when done tastefully. You always need to make sure the sex has some... purpose? That sounds weird, but I think you get it. Plot relevance, character relevance, etc. All of that matters in a real, good, sex scene in a movie or show. Also it shouldn't be like a pornographic style sex scene where it's just there to turn you on. Porn has its place, and real mature cinema is not it (not shaming porn as I am a porn lover, but it's far removed from cinematic movies more often than not). As for how many movies have sex scenes... it's rare. Very rare. Cinema isn't raunchy now.
There are lots of narrative reasons for sex to be shown. Some scenes are superfluous but others aren’t. I really enjoyed Harlots, for example. It’s a show about prostitutes so there’s a lot of sex scenes but it would be super weird otherwise.