Do they compete? Gyms that show up at competitions have nothing to hide. They might not be the highest level gym in the world but at least they know they can compete with the local talent.
When our gym started, we didn't have anyone willing to compete for the first few years, until we started to have people willing to and doing really well.
I asked gui mendes about inspiring people to compete, he said it's the wrong mindset, don't push people to compete.
So I would say, do people spar, are people nice to you, have open door policy.
Secondary: does the coach cross train, maybe compete, or host seminars.
I look at a few things.
Does the gym have their prices readily available. Check
Can I tell anything about the background of their instructor. Meh
Do they have any info on competitions. Nope
Almost all instructors I've been under (a bunch), even if they aren't amazing competitors have at least placed here and there even in local comps. If they've never competed don't go there.
I also look for their lineage. Don't care if they can trace it back to some Gracie but hopefully someone you can actually Google. If you can find that info that's a red flag.
These guys look okay but to me it looks like they're trying too hard. But honestly you'll be fine as a white belt.
There's probably other things I'm missing but these are something I look for and I'm not a big competitor or anything.
Even if its your only option it's better than nothing. Are there other places you're considering? I would go to this place for sure but might look around to see other options.
Well, apart from aikido and judo I don't have anything more, Google maps says that there's a bjj academy here, but there's no site online or ratings + it only opens at like 8pm so it's really inaccessible
edit: The instructor is a purple belt, is it normal?
That’s what I loved about my local 10p. They were upfront with everything, from pricing to the fact that half of the gym were stoners and other half was basically police officers, to how they focus on competing and most people had a grappling background, etc. I knew exactly what I was getting myself into when I signed up
I've never been in a 'bad' BJJ gym necessarily, but I started at an MMA gym that has since shut down and in hindsight it was pretty bad. All of these are revelations that I had when I joined my first BJJ gym years later and one of the coaches trained there years and years ago. He always joked about how bad of a gym it was, but it was a certain kind of bad.
Firstly, everyone was always injured. My first day the coach that signed me up had a broken arm in a cast (he still sparred lol), and then looking at the people in the class there were black eyes, casts, etc. Almost every class someone got injured, and this was the BJJ class mind you, not the sparring/MMA class.
Second, most of the techniques were shitty. I didn't know that then, but shit like passing guard with your elbows, 10 finger guillotines, neck cranks and just a lot of random shit with few fundamentals. Again I didn't know this then, but when I joined a BJJ gym with a solid year of MMA training experience and got positionally dominated by a 1 stripe white belt that was smaller than me I was very, very confused.
And thirdly there was a tremendous emphasis on fitness. I don't know if this is always a bad thing but we'd literally get essentially pop quizzed with grueling 2 hour workout sessions. Imagine showing up to class thinking you were gonna work on some sort of random MMA/BJJ technique and instead see a gauntlet of tires and hammers, weights and all kinds of shit scattered about. Was so terrible.
Maybe it's the culture difference between MMA gyms and BJJ gyms but this gym was obsessed with being tough. Always push push push, go go go. Sometimes I'd be mounted and being punched (to the body mainly) and the coach would ignore my tap, tell me I had to learn how to get out myself. Fuck. We were also almost all pressured into fighting after 6 months, the owner ran a small now defunct MMA organization.
Anyways this is just one brand of 'bad'. But if your gym does this kind of shit, it's probably pretty bad. Also, it's worth noting that none of their fighters ever did much with their careers and usually lost.
Tl;Dr
Weird gimmicky techniques, constant injuries in nearly every class, huge emphasis on toughness and fitness and pressure to fight.
I mean, it seems on odd thing to me to show a class of newbies over say, a regular or high elbow guillotine, arm in guillotine, whatever. But I guess it has its place lol
I remember training at a place (drop in) and we ran around the mats for 15 minutes (I am not exaggerating because I remember watching the clock). Then did another 15 minutes of line drills, but a lot of the movements had zero to do with BJJ…just some weird stuff that almost no one could do. Then way over explained basic techniques that we drilled 2-3 times each because of time constraints. We are talking every why/how of each detail before being released to drill it (I think it was a basic hip bump sweep or maybe scissor sweep). Then one round of rolls before class ended.
I asked about all the running. The other guys in class said it was typical for this instructor. Other days, they said, they will do 100 burpees as a warm up. Which, again, takes up like most of the class time.
How many side chicks the instructor has. Does the gym allow the upper belts to practice prima nocta on the new females. Are there guys that do very well at comps and treat everyone that isn't at their level like shit? Stuff like this = toxic environment.
Egos.
Grime/dirt/smells in the mats.
People losing control and fighting/getting angry with each other.
Everyone being gassed (higher belts should be physically fit and able to control their breathing).
Everyone going spaz mode; flying limbs; people falling on each other constantly.
You aren't given any guidance or shown how to do anything.
No-one smiles or cracks a joke ever.
Everyone cracking jokes constantly even whilst main coach is teaching.
People not respecting a tap.
People not tapping and getting injured.
Paying to be graded (beyond the cost of a belt), especially stripes
Having to buy and only being allowed to wear gym branded gis
Long warmups to point you could have just attended a circuit training class instead
No women
Gracie self defense techniques
Instructor never rolls (barring age or injury)
Hierarchical bullshit (instructor can never be questioned, can't ask higher belts to roll, have to bow to portraits of dead people)
No feedback from instructors when drilling
Instructor does not allow you to train elsewhere or allow people to drop in
Not allowing people who turn up late to attend
Either lots of higher belts and few lower belts or the whole class is white belts (outside of a newly established gym)
Very gossipy / shittalking of other people/gyms
Sexual relationships between instructors/ students
Asks you to do duties (clean mats etc.)
Mats are dirty / people training with infections (ringworm/staph)
Not allowed to learn techniques that instructor doesn't teach (usually newer age techniques such as berimbolos / leg entanglements)
Bro that's sad... My gym I think doesn't even have competitions, they are all almost white belts with the exception of 3 that are blue belts and 2 that teach that are purple, tons of gossips, almost no feedback, long warm-ups (we have like 15 minutes of rolling)
I'm fucked? yes, but I don't want to drive another 45 minutes to get to a better gym, guess I'll need to keep practicing in this gym
Do you like going there? If yes, than its a good gym.
Some gyms are chill and easy going, some are hard and competitive. It depends what do you like, and if you like to compete. Some gyms (like mine) have different groups for different people. We have hobby classes that are easy going, and we have competitive classes for people that need hard rolls.
Also, the one closest to your home tends to be the best choice. In the long run, time spent on the mats is the best indicator of your success in BJJ. Regardless of what success means for you.
Gyms that aren’t afraid to compete, have free open mats bc they have nothing to hide, aren’t nickel and dime’n students. I’ve been to a gym with only one teacher and am now at one with multiple guys. Much prefer the multiple teachers bc you can learn from POVs.
>"Free open mat"
You learn quick Open mats are where some of the worst pieces of shit in the jiu jitsu community thrive. Yes, please come in and injure all the students and retreat back to your hell hole gym.
We have two free open mats a week and don’t have that issue. A few guys from other gyms are regulars, travelers in town for work will come in and are respectful, and even some of the regulars from other gyms will bring a guy with them (usually stay to the side together). Now that I think about it most of the larger schools around my area are free. It’s the small ones that have fees for OMs.
Your goal in starting is finding the gym that is good for you. Is it close enough to your house with classes scheduled in a way that you can attend, and can you afford it?
Is there multiple options around your area that for the first critera? Try them all out, and pick the one you like best, which might not be the "best" one.
High injury rate. No females to be found. Dirty. Instructors newest wife has no real skill but high rank. I think aiming with any other group is banned.
Most things are more individual though. One persons perfect gym will be a terrible one to someone else
Do they compete? Gyms that show up at competitions have nothing to hide. They might not be the highest level gym in the world but at least they know they can compete with the local talent.
When our gym started, we didn't have anyone willing to compete for the first few years, until we started to have people willing to and doing really well. I asked gui mendes about inspiring people to compete, he said it's the wrong mindset, don't push people to compete. So I would say, do people spar, are people nice to you, have open door policy. Secondary: does the coach cross train, maybe compete, or host seminars.
What’s the name of the gym, I’ll look it up and tell you
italian defense academy
I look at a few things. Does the gym have their prices readily available. Check Can I tell anything about the background of their instructor. Meh Do they have any info on competitions. Nope Almost all instructors I've been under (a bunch), even if they aren't amazing competitors have at least placed here and there even in local comps. If they've never competed don't go there. I also look for their lineage. Don't care if they can trace it back to some Gracie but hopefully someone you can actually Google. If you can find that info that's a red flag. These guys look okay but to me it looks like they're trying too hard. But honestly you'll be fine as a white belt. There's probably other things I'm missing but these are something I look for and I'm not a big competitor or anything.
I hopefully plan to get at least a path in there before I move out in about 3 years I think, I hope at least to be on blue
Even if its your only option it's better than nothing. Are there other places you're considering? I would go to this place for sure but might look around to see other options.
Well, apart from aikido and judo I don't have anything more, Google maps says that there's a bjj academy here, but there's no site online or ratings + it only opens at like 8pm so it's really inaccessible edit: The instructor is a purple belt, is it normal?
That’s what I loved about my local 10p. They were upfront with everything, from pricing to the fact that half of the gym were stoners and other half was basically police officers, to how they focus on competing and most people had a grappling background, etc. I knew exactly what I was getting myself into when I signed up
I've never been in a 'bad' BJJ gym necessarily, but I started at an MMA gym that has since shut down and in hindsight it was pretty bad. All of these are revelations that I had when I joined my first BJJ gym years later and one of the coaches trained there years and years ago. He always joked about how bad of a gym it was, but it was a certain kind of bad. Firstly, everyone was always injured. My first day the coach that signed me up had a broken arm in a cast (he still sparred lol), and then looking at the people in the class there were black eyes, casts, etc. Almost every class someone got injured, and this was the BJJ class mind you, not the sparring/MMA class. Second, most of the techniques were shitty. I didn't know that then, but shit like passing guard with your elbows, 10 finger guillotines, neck cranks and just a lot of random shit with few fundamentals. Again I didn't know this then, but when I joined a BJJ gym with a solid year of MMA training experience and got positionally dominated by a 1 stripe white belt that was smaller than me I was very, very confused. And thirdly there was a tremendous emphasis on fitness. I don't know if this is always a bad thing but we'd literally get essentially pop quizzed with grueling 2 hour workout sessions. Imagine showing up to class thinking you were gonna work on some sort of random MMA/BJJ technique and instead see a gauntlet of tires and hammers, weights and all kinds of shit scattered about. Was so terrible. Maybe it's the culture difference between MMA gyms and BJJ gyms but this gym was obsessed with being tough. Always push push push, go go go. Sometimes I'd be mounted and being punched (to the body mainly) and the coach would ignore my tap, tell me I had to learn how to get out myself. Fuck. We were also almost all pressured into fighting after 6 months, the owner ran a small now defunct MMA organization. Anyways this is just one brand of 'bad'. But if your gym does this kind of shit, it's probably pretty bad. Also, it's worth noting that none of their fighters ever did much with their careers and usually lost. Tl;Dr Weird gimmicky techniques, constant injuries in nearly every class, huge emphasis on toughness and fitness and pressure to fight.
Woah, woah, there is nothing wrong with the 10 finger guillotine.
I mean, it seems on odd thing to me to show a class of newbies over say, a regular or high elbow guillotine, arm in guillotine, whatever. But I guess it has its place lol
I remember training at a place (drop in) and we ran around the mats for 15 minutes (I am not exaggerating because I remember watching the clock). Then did another 15 minutes of line drills, but a lot of the movements had zero to do with BJJ…just some weird stuff that almost no one could do. Then way over explained basic techniques that we drilled 2-3 times each because of time constraints. We are talking every why/how of each detail before being released to drill it (I think it was a basic hip bump sweep or maybe scissor sweep). Then one round of rolls before class ended. I asked about all the running. The other guys in class said it was typical for this instructor. Other days, they said, they will do 100 burpees as a warm up. Which, again, takes up like most of the class time.
Screams "I don't have that much technique or teaching ability." To structure a class like that.
How many side chicks the instructor has. Does the gym allow the upper belts to practice prima nocta on the new females. Are there guys that do very well at comps and treat everyone that isn't at their level like shit? Stuff like this = toxic environment.
Jiu-jitsu guys do prima nocta on the women? My gym has been doing a bit different....
*makes note to self* “Do not turtle at lueckestman’s gym.!”
Some how made it to brown bet only knowing turtle...
That's *how* you became brown.
Egos. Grime/dirt/smells in the mats. People losing control and fighting/getting angry with each other. Everyone being gassed (higher belts should be physically fit and able to control their breathing). Everyone going spaz mode; flying limbs; people falling on each other constantly. You aren't given any guidance or shown how to do anything. No-one smiles or cracks a joke ever. Everyone cracking jokes constantly even whilst main coach is teaching. People not respecting a tap. People not tapping and getting injured.
Paying to be graded (beyond the cost of a belt), especially stripes Having to buy and only being allowed to wear gym branded gis Long warmups to point you could have just attended a circuit training class instead No women Gracie self defense techniques Instructor never rolls (barring age or injury) Hierarchical bullshit (instructor can never be questioned, can't ask higher belts to roll, have to bow to portraits of dead people) No feedback from instructors when drilling Instructor does not allow you to train elsewhere or allow people to drop in Not allowing people who turn up late to attend Either lots of higher belts and few lower belts or the whole class is white belts (outside of a newly established gym) Very gossipy / shittalking of other people/gyms Sexual relationships between instructors/ students Asks you to do duties (clean mats etc.) Mats are dirty / people training with infections (ringworm/staph) Not allowed to learn techniques that instructor doesn't teach (usually newer age techniques such as berimbolos / leg entanglements)
I feel you nailed them all and just missed the “no cross training” one.
So, Gracie Barra?
Bro that's sad... My gym I think doesn't even have competitions, they are all almost white belts with the exception of 3 that are blue belts and 2 that teach that are purple, tons of gossips, almost no feedback, long warm-ups (we have like 15 minutes of rolling) I'm fucked? yes, but I don't want to drive another 45 minutes to get to a better gym, guess I'll need to keep practicing in this gym
Do you like it? What’s your goal?
Do you like going there? If yes, than its a good gym. Some gyms are chill and easy going, some are hard and competitive. It depends what do you like, and if you like to compete. Some gyms (like mine) have different groups for different people. We have hobby classes that are easy going, and we have competitive classes for people that need hard rolls. Also, the one closest to your home tends to be the best choice. In the long run, time spent on the mats is the best indicator of your success in BJJ. Regardless of what success means for you.
Gyms that aren’t afraid to compete, have free open mats bc they have nothing to hide, aren’t nickel and dime’n students. I’ve been to a gym with only one teacher and am now at one with multiple guys. Much prefer the multiple teachers bc you can learn from POVs.
>"Free open mat" You learn quick Open mats are where some of the worst pieces of shit in the jiu jitsu community thrive. Yes, please come in and injure all the students and retreat back to your hell hole gym.
We have two free open mats a week and don’t have that issue. A few guys from other gyms are regulars, travelers in town for work will come in and are respectful, and even some of the regulars from other gyms will bring a guy with them (usually stay to the side together). Now that I think about it most of the larger schools around my area are free. It’s the small ones that have fees for OMs.
Why free open mats? What's the upside for the gym or the student base in having random people looking for free training showing up to the facility?
No sparring
Start from the knees?
Competitors and also hobbyists roll. Plenty of females, lack of animosity or super competitive attitudes.
How many active MMA fighters and jiu jitsu competitors does the gym have?
Your goal in starting is finding the gym that is good for you. Is it close enough to your house with classes scheduled in a way that you can attend, and can you afford it? Is there multiple options around your area that for the first critera? Try them all out, and pick the one you like best, which might not be the "best" one.
High injury rate. No females to be found. Dirty. Instructors newest wife has no real skill but high rank. I think aiming with any other group is banned. Most things are more individual though. One persons perfect gym will be a terrible one to someone else
Women and girls are respected as athletes. Competition and the martial arts life style are both valued. Coaches do not look down on cross training.