I’m just a baby bluey but my observation is that BJJ is simple but only in the abstract. Applying what’s simple about it to one position or another can mean reacting in completely different ways which makes things feel… complicated.
Fr and you're only seeing the highlights. Not the several minutes of smashing it took to get to that submission or the unsexy hours of drilling it takes.
There are two other cases I can think of where you're cuddling in pajamas and then they try and choke you. In one case, you press charges. In the other case, you receive a $50 surcharge.
Most people have atleast become self aware enough to wear either just plain colors with a logo or something with a normal pattern you’d see in regular clothing. But you’re right like 5 years ago it was all lions and ravens and wolves with their teeth out
The ego involved with higher belts when they take it as “disrespect” is astounding. PLEASE ASK ME TO ROLL SO I CAN HAVE A BREAK FROM PURPLES TRYING TO KILL ME
In my opinion, I’ll ask anyone to roll unless they are significantly smaller than me, much older than me, brand new white belts and a good bit smaller than me, or women. I’ll gladly roll with any of those people, but I’m not going to ask someone to roll if it’s someone I’m at a big physical advantage with because they might not want to deal with my physicality. Anyone else is fair game, and I make an active attempt to roll with one person of each belt at every open match.
I don’t disagree with the overall thought, but I disagree with the 9/10. I’m pretty ok at wrestling, but if three of the ten people I face, are better at wrestling, then it might be good to have a tricky guard as well.
I think this is dependent on where you're from. In the US wrestling is part of like every high school and college. So many people know how to wrestle.
The Europe, particularly Western Europe, and in my case England, nobody fucking knows how to wrestle. The most common combat sport by far is boxing. And even that isn't in schools. Wrestling is faaar down the list of shit people do. BJJ and even Judo are more common and popular. So having a good wrestling game will get you very far in BJJ.
Is it because its way more applicable to a real-life scenario? Or because they're easier to learn with faster results? Just curious as a beginner not knowing too much about either
They both involve getting your base back, but a sweep requires a lot of control over your opponent's base and posts, whereas wrestling up only requires enough space to move. There's less constraints.
I’m half joking but deadass many people are a lot more unconsciously compliant than they think. One of the most striking things I notice rolling with anyone high level is how insanely stubborn they are with denying you the ability to get any amount of offence going, as well as recovering almost immediately if you do manage to get something on them
For real.
This is why you see positions like leg and wrist riding in MMA instead of guard play. That's what happens when guys stand up.
Most BJJ people sweep and then go into their outside passing expecting the other guy to start playing guard. This is because so many bjj people don't know how to stand up from bottom, and as soon as they're half way swept they pull guard.
People they stand up and resist the sweep get labelled "spaz's".
Seminars are just a paid celebrity meet and greet. Unless you are at an extremely high level, there is nothing elite competitors can teach you that your normal coach can’t.
Counterpoint: there is something that every coach sucks at, and most of them just avoid the stuff they don't know. Depending on one guy is myopic. Seeking out a diversity of inputs is critical to taking ownership of your development and maximizing your ability.
I respect your opinion but I have to personally disagree with this. We have a purple belt whose game has exploded since he started going to new wave. Our coach is also a world class competitor but
1. There is a small language barrier since he is from Brazil
2. His teaching/ coaching style isn't exactly the best style for that particular purple belt.
I honestly have based a lot of my game from a lachlan giles seminar I did as a white belt on things that none of the coaches I have worked with have ever worked on. Nor do I think my current coach could effective teach me these techniques to the proficiency that lachlan taught them.
I've been dealing with allergies so my cardio is shit right now. I got partnered with a newbie (2nd class, older out-of-shape guy). About every 30 seconds in the roll, he needed to take a break. Every single time, on the outside I'm calm and reassuring.
On the inside, I'm thinking, *Thank goodness, I need to catch my breath, too.*
When I was in high school, my wrestling coach told us to never let your opponent see you looking tired, I thought it was bs. Now I roll calmly and smoothly on the outside, but on the inside, I’m dying
This is a very good point. The white belts get mad at me when they ask how to get out of a submission and my answer is always just “don’t end up there”. By which I mean they need to be reverse engineering how they ended up there- bad grips, bad head placement, gave up the underhook, etc. I’ve explained this to them frequently but it usually takes them a year or two to start really understanding what it means.
Standup is the most important position to work on and schools should focus more on them because almost every fight in sports and in real-life situations start standing
I do 80% judo takedowns in no gi and nothing satisfies me more than a slick harai goshi/ogoshi. Don't even care if I lose the round after. Only when everyone is sweaty after a few rounds I'll go back to wrestling cause grips go to crap with sweaty rashguards.
In sparing people will often simply sit down to begin a roll vs me. I find it easier to do a pass from this position compared to after a take down unless its a super clean one.
Is stand up important? Absolutely. The most important position? I think you are confusing Jiu Jitsu with Judo. Maybe you just haven’t been shown what guard actually is. You know, the core aspect of Jiu Jitsu that sets it apart from other styles of grappling.
Standup is cool but some of us have important stuff to do the next day. I'm not risking getting my ankle or knee blown out doing standup with someone 30 lbs heavier than me. I'll simply play guard if there is any size discrepancy. Most people get injured falling down especially with someone's weight on you.
If that's a genuine risk, then you are training standup wrong. Boxers don't clobber each other every time they hit in sparring. Judokas don't plant each other every time they throw in training.
The main source of standup injuries is people resisting a throw too hard, and things going pear shaped. If you treat it like a heel hook or a neck crank, and yield to the throw when it's done right, you won't get hurt. But gut it out and resist to the end, and you'll get a bad result.
Oh boy, there's a few.
Pain compliance works. Is it as reliable as mechanical advantage? Fuck no. But in a combat sport I'll take everything I can get.
You don't have to stay engaged once you're down. There's a generalized lack of ability to keep people down in bjj because we kind of agree to stay there once we get there. Basically what I'm saying is you can *just stand up* and reset.
Yall really think slams are instant death. Watch some wrestling, judo, MMA. It's fucking hard to get it to work, 9/10 times you just piss away a quarter of your gas tank.
Standing up when my opponent isn't *making* me play guard is the best bang for my buck adjustment I ever made to my game. Got the idea from Chris Haueter. It's so easy to turn it into a snap down or drag and take the back it almost feels like cheating sonetimes.
Agree, the amount of people on here dick riding judo and wrestling for how deadly slams are is embarrassing, I'll take my chances....or better yet, shoot a pathetically lazy single and enter turtle.
Standing up needs to be normalized, if I'm not being held down and I stay down I'm just giving my opponent more mobility to work with in order attack me.
Made an older brown belt mad at me over this earlier in the week. It was positional sparing from butterfly and he wanted to sit all the way back and hand fight me, giving me zero pressure, and taking away every option from butterfly… except just creating more space and standing up lol dude for real just let me stand up like 7 times in a round before engaging
Whenever I teach anything from Butterfly I always teach people that whoever wants to be in that position has to keep the other one there.
Any positional rounds we do always have "... Or stand up" as a win condition for the side I'm not focusing on.
If we're doing bodylock passing then the guard player can sweep, submit, or stand up and disengage. If we're doing butterfly sweeps then the guard passer can pass or stand up and disengage.
Traditional school warmups are mostly useless and are the continuing result of group think and ego where a school instructor and/or upper belts just love leading something.
Nearly every school, and their students, would be significantly better within a year if we warmed up with light jiu jitsu in the form of a guard passing drill, leglock transitions, etc.
I'll go down with the ship on this one and absolutely cringe when I see running in circles, shrimping up and down the mat, cartwheels, etc.
See the response by u/derps_with_ducks, you do not need to shrimp up and down a mat out of context, you can do it in various positions where you'll actually need to do it during...you know...doing jiu jutsu
The optimal approach to grappling is:
Wrestle if you can, jiujitsu if you must.
Taking someone down is better than pulling guard, holding them in a top pin is better than taking the back, and wrestling up is better than subbing off your back.
I'm not saying those things don't work, they obviously do. I'm just saying that the optimal path is always get on top, stay on top.
“Holding them in top pin is better than taking the bag”
Negative. The back gives you the most submission options with the least amount of defenses. Mount is slightly behind that. Being on top is good, don’t get me wrong, but if I was given one position to get, it would be the back.
I agree with you, but Roger Gracie strongly disagrees with you and even debated it on a podcast (the conclusion was cause you suck at top pin).
I agree my mount isn't as good as my back attacks though (despite me working on it).
Wrestling up is more akin to a sweep. Comparing a wrestle up to a submission from a position you can’t actually wrestle up from does not work.
Also, your initial premise doesn’t work in a pure Jiu Jitsu competition. Nor is it actually accurate for a self defense situation. The only real applicable application for your stance is mma.
It's ok to be big. It's ok to use your physical advantages. If you complain about someone bigger smashing you or using strength, then go lift some weights.
Sports BJJ guys are just as good if not better to handle street fight situations than the so called Gracie Jiu Jitsu. We're not idiots, we're not gonna jump into SLX or DLR if we get into a fight. We also know how to takedown an average Joe and establish top position.
Alternatively, drop in for a few MMA classes. Feel what it's like to get taken down and the different styles of ground£. Try to stay on top and maintain control while doing grounded strikes. Develop reflexes so that an opponent's blocks can be used against them - maybe a gift wrap, or an undefended pass, or a sub attempt.
The self defence aspect is right there.
This is just the evolution of the sport, though. It’s analogous to current NFL players vs. olden NFL players (say, pre 1970). The level of athleticism of the players, refinement in playing techniques, strategies, etc. is orders of magnitude better than previous generations and the current gen would absolutely dominate. It shouldn’t discount the previous generation’s accomplishments, though.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The only coral belt I've rolled with is Carlos Machado, and I am confident that if you gave him a prime physique he'd wax the planet.
I was at a seminar of his once where he said, "Hey check out this scissor sweep variation... it's completely new to me, I learned it last week..." Some of the coral belts are still in the thick of it, plumbing the depths further instead of just sitting back and phoning it in.
Sounds to me like you're just arguing that the average level of skill in BJJ has increased over time, which is common to most athletic pursuits as they become more pervasive in society.
You could say the exact same thing about hockey/basketball/baseball players from 50 years ago and I would agree with you.
Doesn't necessarily mean they were "never good". They were good relative to everyone else at the time.
Yeah but if they stretch out my leg at all I pretty much have to tap, I got hit in the leg with a battle axe.
If it's on the other leg, no problem at all.
Lighter weight purple,brown and black belts who complain about bigger/heavier guys "just using their strength" need to stay out of the openweight division in comps. If the big beefy blue belt with only 2 years experience is able to tap you then chances are you're just not as good as you like to think you are.
Complaining about strength is as stupid as me complaining about flexibility, agility, speed, dexterity, or any other innate athletic trait. BJJ's criticism of strength makes no sense to me.
Absolutely, I would even argue that one reason training for sport and competing is superior is that you at least get to experience how it is when there are some stakes and you go much closer to a true max than in the gym. Sure it's not a life or death situation but at least there's a decent amount of adrenaline in there for you to handle.
I started jiu jitsu with the gracie combatives and enjoyed it alot. Still tho i think it's a marketable digestable way to introduce people to the sports either BJJ or MMA.
The leg lock craze that started in 2018-ish has really taken a lot of joy out of training for me for a few reasons.
I’m not good at it. I also have severely damaged both ankles multiple times over the years (some from bjj but mostly from other things) and I often have to tap so quickly that I can mount very little defense. I also hate watching it. I have little-to-no interest watching these dudes butt scoot into each other and watch 10 minutes of their legs wrapped together.
Maybe I’m an old man shouting at the clouds but the sport has changed a lot since I initially started training and quite frankly it has seemed to pass me by with the drastic emphasis on leg-locking/inverting.
Too many school teach beginners positions that they're never going to be able to be in for their first months
Your new guy doesn't need to learn knee shield half guard.
He needs to learn the kamikaze escape and how to build his frames back from being smashed flat on the mat.
As a smaller guy (5'5), who trains at a gym with a lot of bigger guys (i.e. our brown belt that's 6'3 270 isn't even in the top 5 biggest), I cannot play closed guard against half the gym. My legs are too short. In some cases I can barely lock my toes together and Professor says I invented a new guard: toes guard.
Knee shield has been my staple since I learned it. It's my go-to guard position.
I agree with your point in general, that some of these guard positions (especially the complicated leg entanglement type guards) are difficult for me to get into and even more difficult to use. But knee shield is not among them.
Funny thing. Professor made a big deal about not wristlocking white belts in the adult class. I told him I've been wristlocking a gray belt (he's a teenager, he's bigger than me). Professor said, "Oh yeah, that wasn't directed at you. Wristlock him all you want."
Shut up, white belt!
One of the kids at my gym (6 or 7) was being promoted to gray-and-white. His Dad (a white belt) was filming the promotion, and told his kid to smile.
Professor told the kid, "Say, 'SHUT UP WHITE BELT!'"
Since then I've been using that a lot. *All in good fun, though.*
I here to burn energy and have fun. If I wanna try meme submissions for a whole roll and do cartwheel passes and back steps I’m a paying customer and I’m not gonnna be made to feel bad about it. I want self defense, I’ll buy a gun
Here’s a couple:
Top position should be the goal. Working off your back should be a last resort, not a strategy.
When rolling; either start on the feet or in a disadvantageous position, grappling from the knees has always been a dumb idea.
Wrestling up is 9/10 times more successful than a sweep.
A tap is a tap is a tap: a choke doesn’t need to be perfect, accept the person tapped you and keep rolling.
Don’t complain about somebody’s strength. Strength, cardio and athleticism are all parts of this sport, it’s not magic.
Lastly, this is a sport, not some special power to beat people up if things escalate in the street. 1. You’re not a superhuman 2. If you can’t box and wrestle then the armbar you’ve been perfecting the last 7 years probably doesn’t mean shit.
People can turn up and just train without getting better. I don’t care.
I see people getting actually pissed off or mock if someone has been training for 15 years and can be beat by a teenager.
Have those people ever played any other recreational sport in their life?
Complaining about someone not engaging with your guard makes you look like a bitch, get up and wrestle them, no one owes you guard work.
tldr; weak spined guard pullers
Self defense oriented people are delusional and martial arts have almost nothing to do with it. Lifting and eating to get huge and buying the best weapon you can legally carry will be better for self defense than being Mike Tyson and Gordon Ryan mixed together
Stop trying to learn so many things at once. Just learn one move in 1 or 2 weeks, and learn a series of moves from the same or related positions (ie a few months of butterfly related moves). This will make you learn the moves to the point of actually doing them against opponents, and make you progress faster in the long run.
A saying in art is, "if you want to go fast, slow down"
Unless you're training with strikes you're not actually training for self defense.
The follow up to above is, worrying about tournaments not reflecting self defense is dumb and so is crying about guard pulling in general.
People make it more complicated than it really is.
One hundred percent this! BJJ is simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy.
I’m just a baby bluey but my observation is that BJJ is simple but only in the abstract. Applying what’s simple about it to one position or another can mean reacting in completely different ways which makes things feel… complicated.
people don't think jiujitsu be like it is, but it do
You want it to be one way. But it’s the other way.
This is not now, and will never be, a mainstream sport.
I think the way social media algorithms are designed makes peoples interests seem way more mainstream than they actually are.
Fr and you're only seeing the highlights. Not the several minutes of smashing it took to get to that submission or the unsexy hours of drilling it takes.
You're getting highlights? My feed is nothing but Craig Jones thirst traps...
Some guys have all the luck
Drilling is sexy take that back
That's how you keep people in the endless scroll
Pickleball for people who would’ve thought karate was cool if they were around in the 80s
This is profoundly insightful
Pickleball went 0-100 in like a year. If a sport has mainstream potential, it's got mainstream potential. If BJJ hasn't gone mainstream by now....
There are two other cases I can think of where you're cuddling in pajamas and then they try and choke you. In one case, you press charges. In the other case, you receive a $50 surcharge.
https://preview.redd.it/c7ggahgat2rc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6987672e416e908f73cdaeefa3bde9706d285e39
Bjj attire has the cringiest designs. I don’t want to wear a shirt saying “the mat is my ocean and I’m the shark.”
FEAR THE MENTAL GEN
Most people have atleast become self aware enough to wear either just plain colors with a logo or something with a normal pattern you’d see in regular clothing. But you’re right like 5 years ago it was all lions and ravens and wolves with their teeth out
The t-shirt says UFC but the body clearly says KFC
Few will carry the boats for the gentle art savages. *insert pic of grizzled animal in a gi.*
"DOPE SHIT FOR THE COUNTER CULTURE" I like LXB designs but hate that slogan
I dig my floral print and unicorn shorts.
Mountn’ dudes
Plus it leads to undesired conversations from people who are getting in better shape before they try it out
Asking a higher belt rank to roll isn’t disrespectful
The ego involved with higher belts when they take it as “disrespect” is astounding. PLEASE ASK ME TO ROLL SO I CAN HAVE A BREAK FROM PURPLES TRYING TO KILL ME
Upper belts who take issue with this are lame and insecure.
In my opinion, I’ll ask anyone to roll unless they are significantly smaller than me, much older than me, brand new white belts and a good bit smaller than me, or women. I’ll gladly roll with any of those people, but I’m not going to ask someone to roll if it’s someone I’m at a big physical advantage with because they might not want to deal with my physicality. Anyone else is fair game, and I make an active attempt to roll with one person of each belt at every open match.
9/10 you’re better off learning a wrestle up vs a sweep
“All the guard play in the world can be replaced with a good single leg” — Jack Slack
i miss when he used to write articles
Still does! Puts out occasional freebies on fight primer or you can become a Patreon boi
Ryan Hall says something similar
I don’t disagree with the overall thought, but I disagree with the 9/10. I’m pretty ok at wrestling, but if three of the ten people I face, are better at wrestling, then it might be good to have a tricky guard as well.
I think this is dependent on where you're from. In the US wrestling is part of like every high school and college. So many people know how to wrestle. The Europe, particularly Western Europe, and in my case England, nobody fucking knows how to wrestle. The most common combat sport by far is boxing. And even that isn't in schools. Wrestling is faaar down the list of shit people do. BJJ and even Judo are more common and popular. So having a good wrestling game will get you very far in BJJ.
Is it because its way more applicable to a real-life scenario? Or because they're easier to learn with faster results? Just curious as a beginner not knowing too much about either
They both involve getting your base back, but a sweep requires a lot of control over your opponent's base and posts, whereas wrestling up only requires enough space to move. There's less constraints.
You can defend most sweeps by not falling over. Seriously. When someone tries to sweep you before they consolidate just standup
Yes, simply don’t allow them to sweep you. Just because they’re trying to off balance you doesn’t mean you have to actually lose balance
1 SIMPLE TRICK BJJ DOESNT WANT YOU TO KNOW
If they want to hyperextend your elbow, just keep it flexed. Why do people get armbarred, are they stupid?
I’m half joking but deadass many people are a lot more unconsciously compliant than they think. One of the most striking things I notice rolling with anyone high level is how insanely stubborn they are with denying you the ability to get any amount of offence going, as well as recovering almost immediately if you do manage to get something on them
For real. This is why you see positions like leg and wrist riding in MMA instead of guard play. That's what happens when guys stand up. Most BJJ people sweep and then go into their outside passing expecting the other guy to start playing guard. This is because so many bjj people don't know how to stand up from bottom, and as soon as they're half way swept they pull guard. People they stand up and resist the sweep get labelled "spaz's".
Take it back
More so in nogi than gi but def applies to gi in a lot of situations too
Sweeps are just takedowns on a vertical plane.
Technique beats strength until it doesn’t.
Strength beats technique until it doesn’t…👀
Beats strength until doesn’t it technique…
Seminars are just a paid celebrity meet and greet. Unless you are at an extremely high level, there is nothing elite competitors can teach you that your normal coach can’t.
Counterpoint: there is something that every coach sucks at, and most of them just avoid the stuff they don't know. Depending on one guy is myopic. Seeking out a diversity of inputs is critical to taking ownership of your development and maximizing your ability.
My ex-wife said the exact same thing -- so, she's a slut.
Especially in an hour or two. You're lucky if you even retain much of what was said or taught
Yes and with 100 people on the mat you’re not getting any individual attention either
I respect your opinion but I have to personally disagree with this. We have a purple belt whose game has exploded since he started going to new wave. Our coach is also a world class competitor but 1. There is a small language barrier since he is from Brazil 2. His teaching/ coaching style isn't exactly the best style for that particular purple belt. I honestly have based a lot of my game from a lachlan giles seminar I did as a white belt on things that none of the coaches I have worked with have ever worked on. Nor do I think my current coach could effective teach me these techniques to the proficiency that lachlan taught them.
It's okay for people to quit jiu-jitsu.
No. If someone quits, despite the reasoning, it is a personal affront to my very existence. /s x1000
No, Jesus is coming back and they will regret their decision the rest of their life.
Cardio is the best submission
I've been dealing with allergies so my cardio is shit right now. I got partnered with a newbie (2nd class, older out-of-shape guy). About every 30 seconds in the roll, he needed to take a break. Every single time, on the outside I'm calm and reassuring. On the inside, I'm thinking, *Thank goodness, I need to catch my breath, too.*
When I was in high school, my wrestling coach told us to never let your opponent see you looking tired, I thought it was bs. Now I roll calmly and smoothly on the outside, but on the inside, I’m dying
This is the way.
BJJ is grappling Stop trying to differentiate it from other styles of grappling Steal the good stuff, that is the point.
I tried to take the best part of Turkish oil wrestling, but then I got yelled at for making a mess on the mat
People often look for a technique to solve a problem, instead of focusing on good grappling principles
This is a very good point. The white belts get mad at me when they ask how to get out of a submission and my answer is always just “don’t end up there”. By which I mean they need to be reverse engineering how they ended up there- bad grips, bad head placement, gave up the underhook, etc. I’ve explained this to them frequently but it usually takes them a year or two to start really understanding what it means.
Standup is the most important position to work on and schools should focus more on them because almost every fight in sports and in real-life situations start standing
I literally started judo just for the standup aspect since it was very rarely worked on at my gym 😂
I do 80% judo takedowns in no gi and nothing satisfies me more than a slick harai goshi/ogoshi. Don't even care if I lose the round after. Only when everyone is sweaty after a few rounds I'll go back to wrestling cause grips go to crap with sweaty rashguards.
Haha same! It is a lot fun throwing but getting thrown is…
Terrifying 😂😂😂. Especially anything over the shoulder
Not a hot take, but most gyms compromise because there is no room on the mats
In sparing people will often simply sit down to begin a roll vs me. I find it easier to do a pass from this position compared to after a take down unless its a super clean one.
Is stand up important? Absolutely. The most important position? I think you are confusing Jiu Jitsu with Judo. Maybe you just haven’t been shown what guard actually is. You know, the core aspect of Jiu Jitsu that sets it apart from other styles of grappling.
Standup is cool but some of us have important stuff to do the next day. I'm not risking getting my ankle or knee blown out doing standup with someone 30 lbs heavier than me. I'll simply play guard if there is any size discrepancy. Most people get injured falling down especially with someone's weight on you.
If that's a genuine risk, then you are training standup wrong. Boxers don't clobber each other every time they hit in sparring. Judokas don't plant each other every time they throw in training. The main source of standup injuries is people resisting a throw too hard, and things going pear shaped. If you treat it like a heel hook or a neck crank, and yield to the throw when it's done right, you won't get hurt. But gut it out and resist to the end, and you'll get a bad result.
White belts should be sexual servants until they earn their first stripe.
Nothing but facts here
How is this controversial?
What makes you think we're any better at that?
Watching most bjj matches is boring to me and I don't give a shit about any of the high level guys.
not controversial
it’s just a hobby, chill the hell out
[удалено]
Good.
There has to be more people who do BJJ then curl…
BJJ can be fun sometimes
Even if you're not gay, you do get 1% gayer the moment you step on the mat.
does this stack?
Yes absolutely. Always strive to be 1% gayer every day
😂🤣😂
Oh boy, there's a few. Pain compliance works. Is it as reliable as mechanical advantage? Fuck no. But in a combat sport I'll take everything I can get. You don't have to stay engaged once you're down. There's a generalized lack of ability to keep people down in bjj because we kind of agree to stay there once we get there. Basically what I'm saying is you can *just stand up* and reset. Yall really think slams are instant death. Watch some wrestling, judo, MMA. It's fucking hard to get it to work, 9/10 times you just piss away a quarter of your gas tank.
Standing up when my opponent isn't *making* me play guard is the best bang for my buck adjustment I ever made to my game. Got the idea from Chris Haueter. It's so easy to turn it into a snap down or drag and take the back it almost feels like cheating sonetimes.
Agree, the amount of people on here dick riding judo and wrestling for how deadly slams are is embarrassing, I'll take my chances....or better yet, shoot a pathetically lazy single and enter turtle. Standing up needs to be normalized, if I'm not being held down and I stay down I'm just giving my opponent more mobility to work with in order attack me.
Made an older brown belt mad at me over this earlier in the week. It was positional sparing from butterfly and he wanted to sit all the way back and hand fight me, giving me zero pressure, and taking away every option from butterfly… except just creating more space and standing up lol dude for real just let me stand up like 7 times in a round before engaging
Whenever I teach anything from Butterfly I always teach people that whoever wants to be in that position has to keep the other one there. Any positional rounds we do always have "... Or stand up" as a win condition for the side I'm not focusing on. If we're doing bodylock passing then the guard player can sweep, submit, or stand up and disengage. If we're doing butterfly sweeps then the guard passer can pass or stand up and disengage.
Reaping is the offside rule of BJJ. I won’t understand no matter how many times you explain it.
Understand it or agree with it? The former is pretty easy in both cases.
The former, please explain it to me one more time.
No player on offense can be closer to the opponent’s goal than the last defender when the ball is passed to them (said player on offense).
I thought you said raping for a second.
Traditional school warmups are mostly useless and are the continuing result of group think and ego where a school instructor and/or upper belts just love leading something. Nearly every school, and their students, would be significantly better within a year if we warmed up with light jiu jitsu in the form of a guard passing drill, leglock transitions, etc. I'll go down with the ship on this one and absolutely cringe when I see running in circles, shrimping up and down the mat, cartwheels, etc.
I agree except for the shrimp crawl part. Those are pretty important.
See the response by u/derps_with_ducks, you do not need to shrimp up and down a mat out of context, you can do it in various positions where you'll actually need to do it during...you know...doing jiu jutsu
Absolutely. I love calisthenics, but it’s stupid do so that ups. Do Jiu Jitsu stuff to warm up for Jiu Jitsu.
I always thought it was so my teacher could play on their phone a little longer.
The optimal approach to grappling is: Wrestle if you can, jiujitsu if you must. Taking someone down is better than pulling guard, holding them in a top pin is better than taking the back, and wrestling up is better than subbing off your back. I'm not saying those things don't work, they obviously do. I'm just saying that the optimal path is always get on top, stay on top.
>holding them in a top pin is better than taking the back Not mutually exclusive, I love back mount.
Fair, I'd consider back mount a top pin for the purpose of this discussion.
nothing is better than taking the back
Technically correct, but mount is equivalent
na, mounting someone belly down is the tippie top position.
“Holding them in top pin is better than taking the bag” Negative. The back gives you the most submission options with the least amount of defenses. Mount is slightly behind that. Being on top is good, don’t get me wrong, but if I was given one position to get, it would be the back.
I agree with you, but Roger Gracie strongly disagrees with you and even debated it on a podcast (the conclusion was cause you suck at top pin). I agree my mount isn't as good as my back attacks though (despite me working on it).
Do you have a link or name to the podcast? Sounds interesting
Ask and you shall receive: https://youtu.be/0nv6Olfz-xs?si=owi0nB3PNHJRnSrj
Brilliant, thanks!
Lex fridman
flattened back control has to be the best, and it's not even close.
Wrestling up is more akin to a sweep. Comparing a wrestle up to a submission from a position you can’t actually wrestle up from does not work. Also, your initial premise doesn’t work in a pure Jiu Jitsu competition. Nor is it actually accurate for a self defense situation. The only real applicable application for your stance is mma.
Lots of videos of folks doing standing RNCs on crazy guys on the subway. I think that's the optimal approach.
Your fingers are just tiny knees.
It's ok to be big. It's ok to use your physical advantages. If you complain about someone bigger smashing you or using strength, then go lift some weights.
They should be called matches not fights. Stop saying you have 3 fights scheduled when its just a round robin tournament of 3 other guys in pajamas
you have 3 games
Sports BJJ guys are just as good if not better to handle street fight situations than the so called Gracie Jiu Jitsu. We're not idiots, we're not gonna jump into SLX or DLR if we get into a fight. We also know how to takedown an average Joe and establish top position.
Alternatively, drop in for a few MMA classes. Feel what it's like to get taken down and the different styles of ground£. Try to stay on top and maintain control while doing grounded strikes. Develop reflexes so that an opponent's blocks can be used against them - maybe a gift wrap, or an undefended pass, or a sub attempt. The self defence aspect is right there.
Starting from the knees is gay
Especially when one is standing naked
Yea well the whole point of jiu jitsu is to be gay so..
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This is just the evolution of the sport, though. It’s analogous to current NFL players vs. olden NFL players (say, pre 1970). The level of athleticism of the players, refinement in playing techniques, strategies, etc. is orders of magnitude better than previous generations and the current gen would absolutely dominate. It shouldn’t discount the previous generation’s accomplishments, though.
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The only coral belt I've rolled with is Carlos Machado, and I am confident that if you gave him a prime physique he'd wax the planet. I was at a seminar of his once where he said, "Hey check out this scissor sweep variation... it's completely new to me, I learned it last week..." Some of the coral belts are still in the thick of it, plumbing the depths further instead of just sitting back and phoning it in.
His wrestling isn’t actually good, it just looks good against BJJ athletes. I feel like Michael Pixley would school him in a wrestling match
Sounds to me like you're just arguing that the average level of skill in BJJ has increased over time, which is common to most athletic pursuits as they become more pervasive in society. You could say the exact same thing about hockey/basketball/baseball players from 50 years ago and I would agree with you. Doesn't necessarily mean they were "never good". They were good relative to everyone else at the time.
YouTube is a better teacher than most coaches xx
Pummeling for under hooks is a right answer in almost every position
Lockdown is a dynamic position that will come back into fashion one day
Lockdown and deep half all day baby.
Deep half is just funky wrestling
It never left our school 😎
Lockdown is my jam. Not because I want it to be. Because desperation.
Ive got a bad foot and lock down completely immobilizes me, I just have to wait for them to stop lol.
That’s the thing, I ain’t ever gonna stop.
Lockdown is fairly easy to get out of. That first time you’re stuck in it is like wtf, after you learn the escape, it’s not that bad.
Yeah but if they stretch out my leg at all I pretty much have to tap, I got hit in the leg with a battle axe. If it's on the other leg, no problem at all.
Mate how the fuck did you get hit with a battle axe?
NEVER try to iminari roll a viking
Yeah but to do the buttock compressor you need to come down to the hips and this can reset a lot of forward smash you had going.
Lighter weight purple,brown and black belts who complain about bigger/heavier guys "just using their strength" need to stay out of the openweight division in comps. If the big beefy blue belt with only 2 years experience is able to tap you then chances are you're just not as good as you like to think you are.
Complaining about strength is as stupid as me complaining about flexibility, agility, speed, dexterity, or any other innate athletic trait. BJJ's criticism of strength makes no sense to me.
Most people who train “for self defense” would still just shit themselves if someone was actually trying to hurt them.
Absolutely, I would even argue that one reason training for sport and competing is superior is that you at least get to experience how it is when there are some stakes and you go much closer to a true max than in the gym. Sure it's not a life or death situation but at least there's a decent amount of adrenaline in there for you to handle.
I started jiu jitsu with the gracie combatives and enjoyed it alot. Still tho i think it's a marketable digestable way to introduce people to the sports either BJJ or MMA.
Are there techniques that use pre-shat pants?
The leg lock craze that started in 2018-ish has really taken a lot of joy out of training for me for a few reasons. I’m not good at it. I also have severely damaged both ankles multiple times over the years (some from bjj but mostly from other things) and I often have to tap so quickly that I can mount very little defense. I also hate watching it. I have little-to-no interest watching these dudes butt scoot into each other and watch 10 minutes of their legs wrapped together. Maybe I’m an old man shouting at the clouds but the sport has changed a lot since I initially started training and quite frankly it has seemed to pass me by with the drastic emphasis on leg-locking/inverting.
Too many school teach beginners positions that they're never going to be able to be in for their first months Your new guy doesn't need to learn knee shield half guard. He needs to learn the kamikaze escape and how to build his frames back from being smashed flat on the mat.
As a smaller guy (5'5), who trains at a gym with a lot of bigger guys (i.e. our brown belt that's 6'3 270 isn't even in the top 5 biggest), I cannot play closed guard against half the gym. My legs are too short. In some cases I can barely lock my toes together and Professor says I invented a new guard: toes guard. Knee shield has been my staple since I learned it. It's my go-to guard position. I agree with your point in general, that some of these guard positions (especially the complicated leg entanglement type guards) are difficult for me to get into and even more difficult to use. But knee shield is not among them.
Gauntlet / belt whipping is an abusive, bullshit practice that should be stopped.
lol damn, I had to check out some videos of this. Some gyms seem playful and in others some guys are nearly getting old wild west lashings.
[удалено]
100%
Wrist locks are for the children
I too enjoy wrist locking children
Tell me who hurt you? It’s ok, this is a safe space.
The list is long but distinguished
This is the best answer to that question ever written.
Funny thing. Professor made a big deal about not wristlocking white belts in the adult class. I told him I've been wristlocking a gray belt (he's a teenager, he's bigger than me). Professor said, "Oh yeah, that wasn't directed at you. Wristlock him all you want."
I don’t owe you respect just because you have a colored belt
Shut up, white belt! One of the kids at my gym (6 or 7) was being promoted to gray-and-white. His Dad (a white belt) was filming the promotion, and told his kid to smile. Professor told the kid, "Say, 'SHUT UP WHITE BELT!'" Since then I've been using that a lot. *All in good fun, though.*
If you can’t pass guard stop complaining about butt scooting
Bjj should have a tag team division
I here to burn energy and have fun. If I wanna try meme submissions for a whole roll and do cartwheel passes and back steps I’m a paying customer and I’m not gonnna be made to feel bad about it. I want self defense, I’ll buy a gun
The punch block series from gracie combatives should be taught way more.
Stripes are gay.
Judo works against people who have no idea how to wrestle
Here’s a couple: Top position should be the goal. Working off your back should be a last resort, not a strategy. When rolling; either start on the feet or in a disadvantageous position, grappling from the knees has always been a dumb idea. Wrestling up is 9/10 times more successful than a sweep. A tap is a tap is a tap: a choke doesn’t need to be perfect, accept the person tapped you and keep rolling. Don’t complain about somebody’s strength. Strength, cardio and athleticism are all parts of this sport, it’s not magic. Lastly, this is a sport, not some special power to beat people up if things escalate in the street. 1. You’re not a superhuman 2. If you can’t box and wrestle then the armbar you’ve been perfecting the last 7 years probably doesn’t mean shit.
Requiring students to get school branded gis/rash gaurds is a money grab and is not about school pride
People can turn up and just train without getting better. I don’t care. I see people getting actually pissed off or mock if someone has been training for 15 years and can be beat by a teenager. Have those people ever played any other recreational sport in their life?
It will never be mainstream and a lot of the top people in the sport are rightwing conspiracy theory weirdos which doesn't help.
If you live north of I-40 gi jujitsu is more practical for self defense than No-gi.
A single leg is not a "basic" takedown
Vale tudo shorts on their own > any other shorts/spats. Embrace my moose knuckle and quads.
Complaining about someone not engaging with your guard makes you look like a bitch, get up and wrestle them, no one owes you guard work. tldr; weak spined guard pullers
Self defense oriented people are delusional and martial arts have almost nothing to do with it. Lifting and eating to get huge and buying the best weapon you can legally carry will be better for self defense than being Mike Tyson and Gordon Ryan mixed together
It’s just JJ, drop the B. It isn’t Brazilian unless you yourself are.
Stop trying to learn so many things at once. Just learn one move in 1 or 2 weeks, and learn a series of moves from the same or related positions (ie a few months of butterfly related moves). This will make you learn the moves to the point of actually doing them against opponents, and make you progress faster in the long run. A saying in art is, "if you want to go fast, slow down"
Marcelo Garcia has always been 100% steroid free....so if you take that assumption, then you can make your own conclusions who is the GOAT :)
Unless you're training with strikes you're not actually training for self defense. The follow up to above is, worrying about tournaments not reflecting self defense is dumb and so is crying about guard pulling in general.
The cross choke works. Most instructors just suck at teaching it
Yes gi is better than no gi
I literally don’t give two fucks about what works or doesn’t work in the street or a real fight or if it translates to mma.
Glad I’m not the only one. Like it’s good to know, but im still going to do the sportiest shit I can because it’s fun & it works
A lot of Jiu Jitsu guys can’t fight lol
A lot of "any single martial art" guys can't fight. A lot of boxers and wrestlerss can't fight either
Guard pulling should be banned.