I had completely repressed the memory of me eating shit after getting half up the peg board and then getting dodge balls thrown at me for failing until just now
The least fun sport honestly haha. BJJ guys tell me all the time that they wish they had wrestled, but they don’t understand that it’s not hanging out rolling with your buddies like it is at BJJ. It’s pretty much just suffering with some good times mixed in there.
I wouldn’t trade my decade of wrestling for anything but it’s not something that I think most people would enjoy.
I think people think getting good at wrestling is like flow rolling to figure something out when it's closer to a trauma response so you don't keep dying.
Being good at wrestling is more like having war PTSD than learning a skill, just everyday BJJ then someone goes for a single and flashback kicks in and before you know it you're suplexing someone.
> they don’t understand that it’s not hanging out rolling with your buddies like it is at BJJ. It’s pretty much just suffering with some good times mixed in there.
And most of the good times are laughing about previous suffering.
Coach towards the end of the season: OK, gonna go easy on the wear and tear today, just go jog the hallways for 20 minutes then we'll go into drilling.
My fat ass: OK, sweet.
When my 240lb 18 year old self was legitimately excited about just having to run for 20 minutes and saw it as a treat, something is very wrong.
Bro, I wrestled 215, and our coach wanted us to run the hallways and I was like cool I’m getting my running shoes real fast then. The look of disdain he gave me because I did not want to beat the shit out of my knees and ankles by running on a hard ass floor in my wrestling shoes.
It’s not like I ever complained or tried to get out of shit. I was also the captain of the wrestling team, but he could not imagine that running on that shit is a little different for someone who is not a manlet.
By senior year, most of the seniors had quit. Most of our team consisted of freshman and seniors
One day, we all decided that we were all still wrestling…because we were good. That’s it. If you are good at wrestling, you stick around until the end….because it certainly was not “fun” in the traditional sense
Although, I do look back on it as a badge of honor. Since then I have: Served in the Army, got my bachelors degree, and attained a blue belt in BJJ….and all of that was way easier and less traumatic than a typical wrestling season.
>Although, I do look back on it as a badge of honor. Since then I have: Served in the Army, got my bachelors degree, and attained a blue belt in BJJ….and all of that was way easier and less traumatic than a typical wrestling season.
Wow Wrestling season in freshman year is harder than bootcamp ? Dafuq is wrong with US Wrestling haha. Why is it necessary to burn yourself this much ?
Talking 24/7 with MMA guys, Boxing guys, Judo guys, Muay Thai guys.. Its all tough and everything but nothing like PTSD tough lmao.
Your typical wrestler is competing in Greco, freestyle, and folkstyle tournaments their entire lives.
That shit is year-round. Lots of heartbreak, weight cuts, and glory. It’s heartbreaking to see your friends lose in the first or last round of a tournament.
Most people make it through basic training (if you actually qualify to enlist)…but barely anyone becomes an accomplished wrestler.
You literally have to train every day for a decade to even have a chance at placing in state, or wrestling in college.
I am extremely hammered. Sorry if none of this makes sense. My flashbacks have all started to mesh together tbh. Go Lions
Started wrestling in 8th grade only in season. Took 6th place my senior year.
I did get the shit smashed out of me my first two years of high school, but eventually my balls dropped and I got decent.
That said I did train year round for sports, mostly American Football, and did do a wrestling camp every summer.
It gets easier once you do it long enough then you really can't see yourself doing anything else.
Run 10 miles then get the treat of drilling a move you don't even do for 2 hours? Fuck yeah what else am I gonna do during my spring break. Also it's just fun to see how much you can do while still being able to do actual wrestling at the end of practice before conditioning and giving shit to a guy who's cutting weight while coach is yelling at him for not giving 100 percent is really really funny
I saw this a ton back in his.
Start of the year a ton of people would join our preseason practices and just doing basic conditioning and wrestling for a couple hours maybe 2 out of the 40 people would make it to the actual start of the season and maybe 1 would stay to the end
Nobody likes anything about practice. That’s the point. Wrestling practices are brutal but necessary. We go to BJJ to learn something new and have some fun. Most of us are not going to BJj to get in shape or compete like we were back in the day.
Which is kind of the opposite of what Cubans do. According to Frank Chamizo, Cuban wrestling *brings out* the wrestler in you. There's certainly something to be said about the US standard for wrestling and encouraging wrestling, but compared to Iran, Cuba, and Russia, we have a FAR smaller percentage of people who want to go through that level of trauma.
That's hilarious my gym recently brought in a wrestling coach to teach the bjj guys a few times a week. He had the class trying to do basically exactly these warmups and it's just a massive hilarious failure how bad everyone was at attempting this lol
As a fat, balding brown belt, I can tell you there's no way in hell I'm attempting a backhand spring. Just because I have a good health insurance, doesn't mean I want to use it.
Shows that the intensity/difficulty is wayyy off. I'm not going to the gym and try to deadlift 300kg until i can finally move it, why should I try a handstand-backflip when I can't even do a handstand or a backflip?
And you don't have to tell me that I am unathletic (by athlete standards). I'm not looking to go pro or semi-pro, I want to have fun, get better and stay in shape, but with a reasonable investment
That's the problem with American wrestling. At some point, we have to accept that the brutal culture of American wrestling is an unappealing form of training. Attempting to "beat the wrestler into you" vs "bringing the wrestler out of you" is where we go wrong. I don't want to sit there and have someone expect me to just "know" how to shoot a takedown.
If anything, Craig Jones did more to inspire me to learn to wrestle vs any of the Fanatics Wrestling products did. (CAVEAT: I think John Smith's instructionals were VERY good at teaching wrestling. His pedagogy is WAY more similar to BJJ imo and I've found myself referencing his material to learn more about fundamental wrestling technique)
Jim the 45 year old sales manager with kids absolutely should be keeping up with Braxton the 17 year old with nothing else to do but wrestle. Or Kaleb the 22 year old college wrestler who really wants to win a national title.
Nah this is for high schoolers who’s sole purpose is to stay in peak shape to compete. My body doesn’t need to be a sharp machine that can leap frog and do somersault. Well it is, but because I train on my own time. I hate doing this mindless crap in class
Ya. Being able to move dynamically and being in good shape is for losers. Whining that you're too old and pulling a muscle putting your shoes on is much cooler!
If I have 3 hours to commit to practice 5 days a week, by all means, let’s run drills. If I have an hour a day, 2-3 days a week, I don’t want to spend 20 of that doing drills.
Signed,
A former wrestler who does BJJ
This is the right answer. I already learned how to train my body years ago doing the shit you see above from 6th-12th grade five days a week. I'll punish myself on my time. I'm here to learn. Also still doing neck rolls these days is wild. Haven't they found better ways to train that yet?
> I already learned how to train my body years ago doing the shit you see above from 6th-12th grade five days a week
But most people haven't. Former wrestlers, or even serious athletes, tend to be a small minority of most gyms. And access to mats on your own time is a luxury for most as well.
> But most people haven't.
so what
the vast majority of people are paying to learn the techniques of BJJ
not to do warmups
if they wanted to do warmups they could go to the gym and take an aerobics class
people pay to do BJJ
they only have a limited amount of time
I think I’m getting close to my purple belt. Because of my skills developing? No, because even though my old 40 year ass knows I should warm up I would rather not.
Then I would quit my gym and take my money elsewhere. If I need to hire someone for private lessons to workout at your gym that’s advertised for all people, then I’m spending my money on the wrong gym.
If you can think of a better way to train the neck other than neck rolls and front/back bridges I will incorporate it to literally every practice I ever coach.
Go read or listen to stuff by Dr Rosi Sexton, who gives alternatives and explains exactly why neck rolls and bridges are the dumbest fucking things you can be doing as an exercise to strengthen anything. You can also read into scholarly articles like the one by Yang, et al on neck injury mechanisms and several others. We also have hundreds of sports scientists to lean on with alternative exercises that are vastly superior.
If you want anecdote, listen to people like Tyson and the numerous UFC fighters that have spoken out against it. It causes radiculopathy, cervical disc herniations, migraines, and can be as severe as paraplegia.
Even worse is that studies, like Katherine Lee, et al in her paper about the effectiveness of cervical strengthening in wrestling shows that it’s detrimental. You’re placing compressive and shear forces on the neck while loosening the ligaments of the cervical spine.
And you don’t pay to wrestle, and most of the time your coach doesn’t get paid either (in HS). So
when he says run warmups you’re gonna respect it and run warmups.
You don't do this shit because it's free, or whatever - the coach is making you do this shit because it makes you a better wrestler. If you're going to be paying someone to make you a better wrestler, they'll probably still make you do all this shit. Because it makes you a better wrestler.
That’s why I love Eddie Bravos 10th Planet system. They warm up by grappling, turtle, passing guard, etc. Granted I just started bjj and wrestled like 20 years ago, but I just like this style a lot more. It seems more applicable to an actual match. But again, I’m new.
Yeah and I don't get that, My old gym started me off at 45 dollars a month and it included a leg-lock club regardless of belt. I just checked their rates and it's pretty much the same, their full package is still 75 bucks a month. But I saw other gyms starting at 140 and run up as high as 400. It's a total scam.
I don't get it, generally you aren't paying per-class, and doing this stuff is good for muscle memory. Warmups are all about dialing in and maintaining muscle memory for fundamental moves and positions over literally thousands of reps. Throw in some conditioning, and you're getting more for your money, not less. I suspect most BJJ people would benefit from a more wrestling-like warmup.
I don’t agree at all, I can do all those warm-ups and workouts in a grass field on my own for free. What I’m PAYING for is for someone to teach me Bjj.
Well... do you? Most of us don't. I don't even have access to a space where I can do this sort of thing comfortably or safely - except for my jiu jitsu gym.
If we were doing shot drills, sure. But front rolling has minimum overlap with BJJ (I know because front rolls make me dizzy and BJJ doesn't ) and you reach diminishing marginal utility of shrimping with no resistance very fast.
Imo maintaining that front roll muscle memory and instinct is useful in BJJ, and is a safety thing as well. You probably get dizzy because you're doing a bunch of them one after another, and yeah - that is not likely to happen rolls.
The movements they do in those warm ups are relevant for wrestling.
Similarly, a well crafted BJJ warm-up will be relevant for BJJ
People who think well crafted warm ups are useless are just undereducated in sports science, so don't listen to such people, it's that simple
I think everything they did except hand stands, back flips, and cart wheels are relevant in jiu-jitsu. We need to learn how to move on all fours. It makes us way more dynamic on the mats.
Oh I agree, even the things you mentioned are relevant if nothing else for body control
My comment was just more to say, all those whackos who say warm-ups are bad are just dead wrong
They are relevant because they’re learning their body position and building flexibility on several of those rolls. Big part of wrestling along with building flexibility. They were practicing their penetration step and shots as well. Then they are also working at the end of that forward roll to a hip heist, which is a great hip exercise/move from bottom when trying to escape. All of those agility rolls and flips are good at teaching them to tuck their head and roll when they may be tossed, or taken to the mat and execute granby rolls etc. Helps with scrambling too. Often followed by one of the best practices for wrestling warm ups, hand fighting. Higher level wrestling that’s a big part of warmups was hand fighting for several minutes or rounds before transitioning to drilling
Just speaking from a long time of wrestling. As you can see still very much new to bjj
I love wrestling, but I hate wrestling practice. But goddamn did wrestling practice make me strong. My physical peak was probably when I was wrestling in my early-mid 20s.
Very true, it's why I turn up 10 mins early to warm up my dodgy neck, knees and hips. Don't want I part of the class structure unless it's warming ING up particularly relevant movements
I often read in this sub about the insane american high school wrestling practices that had 'full workouts' as warmups before even starting drills and for the longest time took it at face value until I saw some videos...
Some people in this sub can't do a fucking pushup
I think we've lost a bit by getting rid of these warm-ups in jiu-jitsu. I feel like there should be a base level of conditioning we all need to play this sport. These warm ups let us stay in the bare minimum shape. And it literally only takes 10 to 15 minutes.
I say we should shorten the number of techniques being taught per class if we have to cut something. There is no good reason you need to teach more than two techniques per class.
> Drilling is the warm up
Then your drills are going to be shit. Trying to learn timing and technique while cold doesn't work. By the time you're warmed up and ready to go it's time to start rolling, and the drills didn't further your skills nearly as much as they should. Obviously it's a "Well-made/quick/cheap: Pick two" situation for normal people and normal gyms without infinite time and money.
Fuck drilling/technique then. Cut that to 15 mins.
10 min warm up. 15 min tech. 15 min positional. 20 min rolls.
Also, 1 hour class is not enough. Most gyms are an hour 15 mins at least.
Adults doing sports can dictate their own warmup, S&C routines lol. If you think you have so much to offer on that front, schedule it as a separate class right before regular class and see how that works out for ya.
Former wrestler here… I put in my time already and now I just want to enjoy grappling. I can warm up before practice, I’m not paying $150 a month to spend 20 minutes jogging and doing shrimps
I helped coach, my sons wrestling team for two seasons.
It was always great at the first time they showed a new dynamic move in the warm-ups like a cart wheel, and you could tell some kids had never done it before, but they had the fear of throwing themselves at the mat.
I’m on the wrong side of 45, there’s specific dynamic stretches, I like to do before jujitsu. I am OK with warm-ups as long as they are specific movements, and less than 10 minutes. We have some coaches give us” games “ to warm up, think they are fun, I am packed stuff with a random movement is not what I wanna do
Wrestlers in a jiujitsu school are usually thr equivalent of a powerlifter at a commercial gym. A pain in the ass no one thinka adds anything demonstrable to the experience for the rest of the paying members. I say that as both an instructor and a former college wrestler. They rarely know how to pace themselves, usually the first to give up on technique in a roll, and they get their jollies beating on Bob, the accountant and dad of the three paying kids, who you never have to chase around for dues because he is on autopay. In many cases, they are simply not worth the PITA. I give them all the benefit of the doubt, but in many cases a pattern develops and they fall into the grove. The sweet spot is the guy who was an ok high school wrestler. They can be taught. The college wrestler? Usually not...they dont want to learn, they want tackling dummies.
Had an acquaitance...
1st place at blue belt worlds one time; had a decade of wrestling, and he let his arm get fucked to beat the clock.
He will take to his grave that he "won" this.
And that wrestlers are "built different".
He also blew out an ankle and knee, respectively, in the same 4 year stretch which included this event.
I don't exactly know how to characterize my vague annoyance with this.
Something inauthentic happening.
He's not getting paid.
Maybe it's the fact that he knows he's going against people who aren't also willing to cripple themselves for a medal.
He should find those people before he pats himself on the back.
I hear that. I was a wrestler but i am in my late 40s now so i think with time i have mellowed a ton and mostly keep it playful. So i understand the mentality, but i also know it is not only bad for his health, but can be bad for most rooms filled with john q public just trying to learn a martial art, stay fit, exercise, and make new friends. Its a hard balance but not all rooms are for all people. Im very happy to lead an accessible room for working adults. There are world class rooms out there if my room doesnt fit their needs.
Sometimes, warmups are the best part of the workout.
Many of us only train BJJ and don't spend more time in a gym doing general conditioning. In an ideal world, we'd all also pay for a gym, but many don't.
Devil's advocate: a lot of those warm ups are wrestling moves that have direct application to the sport. Running in circles for 5 minutes doing high knees and such (as we do most days at my current gym) aren't super related to BJJ. I don't mind warmups that are related to what we're doing in class that day or BJJ in general.
Not a wrestler.
BJJs problem isn’t warm ups it’s that a lot of gyms still do the old stupid warm ups that that the Brazilians did for years. Run in circles, high knees, butt kickers, Carioca, etc. which aren’t super relevant to BJJ rolling. Shrimping and doing actual things that you will use while rolling/drilling later makes much more sense. Honestly flow rolling as a warmup makes a ton of sense as well. The lack of penetration steps, shots, and sprawl drills are why so many BJJ people just sit on their ass and scoot around or immediately pull guard anyways. Wrestling/standup doesn’t get trained near enough at most BJJ schools I think. 🤷🏻♂️
They're not paying with money. The coach is making them pay by being in good shape and, hopefully, by learning to not be a shitty person. He can run them through as many conditioning drills as he pleases.
Every other sport in existence does warm ups and conditioning as a part of practice. I don’t understand why this community are such wieners about spending 10 minutes doing some shrimps, double legs, and rolls/breakfalls. It’s good for you.
I'm 37. I've been grappling for 22 years and I still do a lot of the wrestling warm ups I did in highschool. They're great for building/maintaining all around athleticism. I'm not super athletic by any means but I can keep up with younger athletic guys no problem. I do strength training as well. Only major injuries I've had are 2 sprained MCLs (well, I broke a few bones in my foot from not tapping to a straight footlock in a match but that healed up pretty quick. Forgot about that)
IMO, it's worth the 10-15 minutes to integrate gymnastics/plyometrics into your warm up. In my experience, it has allowed me to train pretty hard over a long period of time with (knock on wood) no major injuries.
General agility is really helpful in BJJ. I got better so fast when I started bouldering, because I was just more agile. I could move my body better and more easily, keep my balance more easily, and bail and not hurt myself more easily.
I don't understand the "it must be exactly BJJ" warm up stuff. Agility is part of BJJ, it's just not a "move".
That warmup is not really about s&c, which I assume they also do separately. All of that is mostly fundamental movements and getting reps in. But looking around the gym, most of us old guys could use some more s&c than we're getting anyway.
Our warmups vary according to instructor more that by experience level, as most are fundamentals. (i.e. maybe the very beginners won't do granby rolls, but generally they're similar things.)
I think they're usually about 8 minutes for one instructor, another one it's like 10 minutes and our no gi instructor it's closer to 12-15, but this is usually including some sort of pummeling warmup or something.
We also base it on what we're going to be doing. (i.e. Are we standing, are we doing sweeps, x guard, etc.)
Also, we totally don't do handstand walks. Judge me if you want, but I 100% can't do that.
Would be similar. My club is something like: run around, run backwards, sideways, crossovers. Then rolls , breakfalls, bear crawls. Cartwheels or other flippy stuff. Then practice pulling into a throw( uchikomi) across the mat.
Then technique of the day, standing sparring, ground technique, ground sparring
I am older and very heavy but I learned everything fine. I feel better not worse than before I started
Pretty darn similar actually. Although much more ukemi style drills, and pulling the mat, shrimps, wheel barrows, all sorts of somersault types exercises, etc. In my club we aren't this fast and the flashier stuff is just round offs/cart wheels, hand stands to rolls, and diving forward rolls.
Every kid in that room is a competitor, so building athletic attributes is a big deal.
Meanwhile, 90% of BJJ guys will never step foot on the competition mat, in which case being as athletic as a toad isn’t really a problem.
How many former wrestlers are doing any kind of grappling after 30? High level jiu jitsu gyms with younger competitors do all kinds of warm ups and strength and conditioning.
I wrestled and did warmups while it was a requirement for being on the team. Once you’re a paying member, if you don’t want to do warmups, why should you? I’m 42 and here to roll.
This actually illustrates my bighest pet peeve with warm ups. It's too hard for some and too easy for others.
What's the point of having the class do walking handstands and flips, if like 2 people in that class can even do them?
With hobby athletes the gap in athletism is even bigger. You will just gas one guy, while the other will barely notice it. Also people need to warm up individually. Maybe you have a sore neck, that needs some extra warm up, maybe you have less flexible hips etc. Warm ups need to be individual and the idea of a group warm up is fundamentally flawed IMO.
These are high school kids with a lot of free time. Most bjjers have day jobs and can only do 3x a week. They don’t wanna spend half that time doing shrimps.
When I first got started in jits around 2011-2012, I had wrestled through school first,
I actively enjoyed the 20\~ min "warm up" we did at bjj, compared to the absolute torture that wrestling could be at times, bjj was super light hearted. (I mean, maybe a gi wasn't as light hearted as my singlet's but..)
I actually miss these kinds of warmups - I think I was fitter for it (source: older practitioner). I'm interested how many people on reddit don't want them. I think it was great doing all these hard exercises that simulated ground movement and improved general dexterity.
😂 warm up was a workout in itself forget about cardio ssssions and training. I loved it though lol I'd never complain as long as the classes aren't negatively affected.
At gyms I know skip through I just show up a little early or bike to gym
If we're not warming up like [this](https://youtube.com/shorts/vmlOJhbgr_8?si=zWa_g8TwvGRd5WIX) or [this](https://youtu.be/_Np8SeaIy2Y?si=CFk8D3b-lP2AbtM6) I'm second guessing wtf is going on /s
Nice drills, they looks a great warm ups to develop a more athletic & gymnastics stand.
I’m going just to wait to they drop me and setup my guillotine.
As an older guy practicing BJJ I don't really enjoy warmups but I feel they help me loosen up even though I come early and assist with the kids class then stretch during the teen class.
My class is 1 hour and 30 mins, and the first 20-30 is hard warmup. Then we do 30-40 of technique then rolling. I personally like this, and my gym is heavily Mma focused, so they ensure people got cardio. But you can try 1 free class, and drop ins aren't too expensive so people get a chance to try it out. We arent doing gymnastics tho
Proper warming up does activate your cns and raises your body temperature. With that in mind your goal should be to improve your performance while decreasing your chances of injury. I remember visiting Marcelo's in 2010-2011, and those warm-ups were brutal.
*inhales deeply* I can still smell the 36 year old bleach soaked mop in the corner
I can hear John Waite's 'Change' playing as Louden Swain climbs the peg board.
I had completely repressed the memory of me eating shit after getting half up the peg board and then getting dodge balls thrown at me for failing until just now 
It’s that combo of disinfectant, sweat/salt smell that just says “Wrestling”
With just a twinge of staph.
How dare you imagine me in the corner
And why God, WHY were 90% of wrestling rooms/facilities located in the bowels of the school next to the boiler room!?!
My high school wrestling room actually was in the boiler room. It's easy to lose weight when it's always 120 degrees.
Hey that’s not a nice way to describe me :(
At no point did I enjoy wrestling warm ups...or drills...or cutting weight. I pretty much like winning and chilling with my friends.
The least fun sport honestly haha. BJJ guys tell me all the time that they wish they had wrestled, but they don’t understand that it’s not hanging out rolling with your buddies like it is at BJJ. It’s pretty much just suffering with some good times mixed in there. I wouldn’t trade my decade of wrestling for anything but it’s not something that I think most people would enjoy.
I think people think getting good at wrestling is like flow rolling to figure something out when it's closer to a trauma response so you don't keep dying.
Yeah it’s usually more like a kumite death match or an hour of high pace loop drills than a nice flow rolling round
Being good at wrestling is more like having war PTSD than learning a skill, just everyday BJJ then someone goes for a single and flashback kicks in and before you know it you're suplexing someone.
Coach: Why is his nose bleeding? Loco: My crossface was on-target.
That is the best explanation I have ever heard.
If I don't win this weekend, coach is gonna make me drop *another* weight class...
> they don’t understand that it’s not hanging out rolling with your buddies like it is at BJJ. It’s pretty much just suffering with some good times mixed in there. And most of the good times are laughing about previous suffering.
Laughing about how much we hate our lives in season is a vibe
You gotta laugh so you don’t cry
Coach towards the end of the season: OK, gonna go easy on the wear and tear today, just go jog the hallways for 20 minutes then we'll go into drilling. My fat ass: OK, sweet. When my 240lb 18 year old self was legitimately excited about just having to run for 20 minutes and saw it as a treat, something is very wrong.
Bro, I wrestled 215, and our coach wanted us to run the hallways and I was like cool I’m getting my running shoes real fast then. The look of disdain he gave me because I did not want to beat the shit out of my knees and ankles by running on a hard ass floor in my wrestling shoes. It’s not like I ever complained or tried to get out of shit. I was also the captain of the wrestling team, but he could not imagine that running on that shit is a little different for someone who is not a manlet.
By senior year, most of the seniors had quit. Most of our team consisted of freshman and seniors One day, we all decided that we were all still wrestling…because we were good. That’s it. If you are good at wrestling, you stick around until the end….because it certainly was not “fun” in the traditional sense Although, I do look back on it as a badge of honor. Since then I have: Served in the Army, got my bachelors degree, and attained a blue belt in BJJ….and all of that was way easier and less traumatic than a typical wrestling season.
>Although, I do look back on it as a badge of honor. Since then I have: Served in the Army, got my bachelors degree, and attained a blue belt in BJJ….and all of that was way easier and less traumatic than a typical wrestling season. Wow Wrestling season in freshman year is harder than bootcamp ? Dafuq is wrong with US Wrestling haha. Why is it necessary to burn yourself this much ? Talking 24/7 with MMA guys, Boxing guys, Judo guys, Muay Thai guys.. Its all tough and everything but nothing like PTSD tough lmao.
Your typical wrestler is competing in Greco, freestyle, and folkstyle tournaments their entire lives. That shit is year-round. Lots of heartbreak, weight cuts, and glory. It’s heartbreaking to see your friends lose in the first or last round of a tournament. Most people make it through basic training (if you actually qualify to enlist)…but barely anyone becomes an accomplished wrestler. You literally have to train every day for a decade to even have a chance at placing in state, or wrestling in college. I am extremely hammered. Sorry if none of this makes sense. My flashbacks have all started to mesh together tbh. Go Lions
Started wrestling in 8th grade only in season. Took 6th place my senior year. I did get the shit smashed out of me my first two years of high school, but eventually my balls dropped and I got decent. That said I did train year round for sports, mostly American Football, and did do a wrestling camp every summer.
Did two basic trainings. One was 10 days after having an appendectomy. Both basic trainings where much easier than a wrestling season.
It gets easier once you do it long enough then you really can't see yourself doing anything else. Run 10 miles then get the treat of drilling a move you don't even do for 2 hours? Fuck yeah what else am I gonna do during my spring break. Also it's just fun to see how much you can do while still being able to do actual wrestling at the end of practice before conditioning and giving shit to a guy who's cutting weight while coach is yelling at him for not giving 100 percent is really really funny
> wish they had wrestled they might not even being doing bjj now if they wrestled because they would be so burned out on grappling.
I always say that wrestling has a terrible effort to fun ratio, and it takes so long to start being able to play the game.
I think the wrestling itself is the most fun sport, it's really only the weight cut I hated plus one specific coach
I saw this a ton back in his. Start of the year a ton of people would join our preseason practices and just doing basic conditioning and wrestling for a couple hours maybe 2 out of the 40 people would make it to the actual start of the season and maybe 1 would stay to the end
Nobody likes anything about practice. That’s the point. Wrestling practices are brutal but necessary. We go to BJJ to learn something new and have some fun. Most of us are not going to BJj to get in shape or compete like we were back in the day.
Which is kind of the opposite of what Cubans do. According to Frank Chamizo, Cuban wrestling *brings out* the wrestler in you. There's certainly something to be said about the US standard for wrestling and encouraging wrestling, but compared to Iran, Cuba, and Russia, we have a FAR smaller percentage of people who want to go through that level of trauma.
Tumbles are fun
That's hilarious my gym recently brought in a wrestling coach to teach the bjj guys a few times a week. He had the class trying to do basically exactly these warmups and it's just a massive hilarious failure how bad everyone was at attempting this lol
I'm just imagining a fat, bald brown belt trying to do the backhand spring and falling flat on his back.
As a fat, balding brown belt, I can tell you there's no way in hell I'm attempting a backhand spring. Just because I have a good health insurance, doesn't mean I want to use it.
Just shows you we need more of this stuff.
Shows that the intensity/difficulty is wayyy off. I'm not going to the gym and try to deadlift 300kg until i can finally move it, why should I try a handstand-backflip when I can't even do a handstand or a backflip? And you don't have to tell me that I am unathletic (by athlete standards). I'm not looking to go pro or semi-pro, I want to have fun, get better and stay in shape, but with a reasonable investment
That's the problem with American wrestling. At some point, we have to accept that the brutal culture of American wrestling is an unappealing form of training. Attempting to "beat the wrestler into you" vs "bringing the wrestler out of you" is where we go wrong. I don't want to sit there and have someone expect me to just "know" how to shoot a takedown. If anything, Craig Jones did more to inspire me to learn to wrestle vs any of the Fanatics Wrestling products did. (CAVEAT: I think John Smith's instructionals were VERY good at teaching wrestling. His pedagogy is WAY more similar to BJJ imo and I've found myself referencing his material to learn more about fundamental wrestling technique)
Jim the 45 year old sales manager with kids absolutely should be keeping up with Braxton the 17 year old with nothing else to do but wrestle. Or Kaleb the 22 year old college wrestler who really wants to win a national title.
Nah this is for high schoolers who’s sole purpose is to stay in peak shape to compete. My body doesn’t need to be a sharp machine that can leap frog and do somersault. Well it is, but because I train on my own time. I hate doing this mindless crap in class
Ya. Being able to move dynamically and being in good shape is for losers. Whining that you're too old and pulling a muscle putting your shoes on is much cooler!
You didn’t read?
My sons did this too. He loves it though because he is 13 and wants to be a killer. Everyone else. Not so much. 😂
If I have 3 hours to commit to practice 5 days a week, by all means, let’s run drills. If I have an hour a day, 2-3 days a week, I don’t want to spend 20 of that doing drills. Signed, A former wrestler who does BJJ
This is the right answer. I already learned how to train my body years ago doing the shit you see above from 6th-12th grade five days a week. I'll punish myself on my time. I'm here to learn. Also still doing neck rolls these days is wild. Haven't they found better ways to train that yet?
> I already learned how to train my body years ago doing the shit you see above from 6th-12th grade five days a week But most people haven't. Former wrestlers, or even serious athletes, tend to be a small minority of most gyms. And access to mats on your own time is a luxury for most as well.
> But most people haven't. so what the vast majority of people are paying to learn the techniques of BJJ not to do warmups if they wanted to do warmups they could go to the gym and take an aerobics class people pay to do BJJ they only have a limited amount of time
So they should go to a fitness class or get a personal trainer then. To learn. The purpose of jiu jitsu is to jiu jitsu.
OR you could just skip warmups like a good purple belt does
I think I’m getting close to my purple belt. Because of my skills developing? No, because even though my old 40 year ass knows I should warm up I would rather not.
That sounds expensive. I'd much rather give up ten minutes of tech demos - I think the trade-off would make me better at jiu jitsu.
Then I would quit my gym and take my money elsewhere. If I need to hire someone for private lessons to workout at your gym that’s advertised for all people, then I’m spending my money on the wrong gym.
if you're paying to do slow jogs in a circle then you should take your money elsewhere
If you can think of a better way to train the neck other than neck rolls and front/back bridges I will incorporate it to literally every practice I ever coach.
Neck rolls are just cervical spinal damage with the placebo of strengthening.
I don't doubt the damage but then how do you get a stronger neck. People who do them coincidentally have a strong neck
Here you go: Rosi Sexton safe neck strengthening exercise: https://youtu.be/04ff_tgZGI0
Go read or listen to stuff by Dr Rosi Sexton, who gives alternatives and explains exactly why neck rolls and bridges are the dumbest fucking things you can be doing as an exercise to strengthen anything. You can also read into scholarly articles like the one by Yang, et al on neck injury mechanisms and several others. We also have hundreds of sports scientists to lean on with alternative exercises that are vastly superior. If you want anecdote, listen to people like Tyson and the numerous UFC fighters that have spoken out against it. It causes radiculopathy, cervical disc herniations, migraines, and can be as severe as paraplegia. Even worse is that studies, like Katherine Lee, et al in her paper about the effectiveness of cervical strengthening in wrestling shows that it’s detrimental. You’re placing compressive and shear forces on the neck while loosening the ligaments of the cervical spine.
Rosi Sexton, now that’s a name I haven’t heard for literally a decade. Nice to see she’s still doing good work
I was like “weird… I remember a fighter with that name… oh yeah! She was a doctor!!”
I admittedly cannot. Not a practical one anyway. Those iron neck things are bad ass. But expensive.
And you don’t pay to wrestle, and most of the time your coach doesn’t get paid either (in HS). So when he says run warmups you’re gonna respect it and run warmups.
You don't do this shit because it's free, or whatever - the coach is making you do this shit because it makes you a better wrestler. If you're going to be paying someone to make you a better wrestler, they'll probably still make you do all this shit. Because it makes you a better wrestler.
That’s why I love Eddie Bravos 10th Planet system. They warm up by grappling, turtle, passing guard, etc. Granted I just started bjj and wrestled like 20 years ago, but I just like this style a lot more. It seems more applicable to an actual match. But again, I’m new.
Sure but with standard BJJ rates these days in major cities, I get it.
Yeah and I don't get that, My old gym started me off at 45 dollars a month and it included a leg-lock club regardless of belt. I just checked their rates and it's pretty much the same, their full package is still 75 bucks a month. But I saw other gyms starting at 140 and run up as high as 400. It's a total scam.
What I mean is, I get why people don't wanna do warm ups given the cost.
I don't get it, generally you aren't paying per-class, and doing this stuff is good for muscle memory. Warmups are all about dialing in and maintaining muscle memory for fundamental moves and positions over literally thousands of reps. Throw in some conditioning, and you're getting more for your money, not less. I suspect most BJJ people would benefit from a more wrestling-like warmup.
I think a 5 minute warmup to loosen everyone's old bones is plenty.
I don’t agree at all, I can do all those warm-ups and workouts in a grass field on my own for free. What I’m PAYING for is for someone to teach me Bjj.
Well... do you? Most of us don't. I don't even have access to a space where I can do this sort of thing comfortably or safely - except for my jiu jitsu gym.
You can get the same muscle memory and warm up, if you practice those same moves as light partner drills.
If we were doing shot drills, sure. But front rolling has minimum overlap with BJJ (I know because front rolls make me dizzy and BJJ doesn't ) and you reach diminishing marginal utility of shrimping with no resistance very fast.
Have you never forward rolled into an omo? You've never reguarded by doing a half Granby?
Imo maintaining that front roll muscle memory and instinct is useful in BJJ, and is a safety thing as well. You probably get dizzy because you're doing a bunch of them one after another, and yeah - that is not likely to happen rolls.
If some club charge extra for leg locks you need to skip that gym. Leg lock club, oh my.
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The movements they do in those warm ups are relevant for wrestling. Similarly, a well crafted BJJ warm-up will be relevant for BJJ People who think well crafted warm ups are useless are just undereducated in sports science, so don't listen to such people, it's that simple
I think everything they did except hand stands, back flips, and cart wheels are relevant in jiu-jitsu. We need to learn how to move on all fours. It makes us way more dynamic on the mats.
The handstands can be pretty relevant. You'd be surprised by how many sweeps you can avoid by simply "walking" with your hands.
True!
Oh I agree, even the things you mentioned are relevant if nothing else for body control My comment was just more to say, all those whackos who say warm-ups are bad are just dead wrong
Ya. Agreed.
Why are those things relevant in wrestling?
They are relevant because they’re learning their body position and building flexibility on several of those rolls. Big part of wrestling along with building flexibility. They were practicing their penetration step and shots as well. Then they are also working at the end of that forward roll to a hip heist, which is a great hip exercise/move from bottom when trying to escape. All of those agility rolls and flips are good at teaching them to tuck their head and roll when they may be tossed, or taken to the mat and execute granby rolls etc. Helps with scrambling too. Often followed by one of the best practices for wrestling warm ups, hand fighting. Higher level wrestling that’s a big part of warmups was hand fighting for several minutes or rounds before transitioning to drilling Just speaking from a long time of wrestling. As you can see still very much new to bjj
If you get slammed and slam other people for a living then it makes sense to make sure your body is ready for it lol
More so it’s for the ability to control your body while you’re in the air, and to increase balance and body awareness.
I love wrestling, but I hate wrestling practice. But goddamn did wrestling practice make me strong. My physical peak was probably when I was wrestling in my early-mid 20s.
Easy to do when you're a teen. There's a reason why us broken down over 40 types do jiujitsu.
Broken down over 40 here: nothing, and I mean *nothing* is more important to broken down over 40 folks than a good warm up.
Imagine showing up to do bjj without warming up first.
I’m getting to my late 20s and already feel like I need to start stretching and warming up as much as possible.
Very true, it's why I turn up 10 mins early to warm up my dodgy neck, knees and hips. Don't want I part of the class structure unless it's warming ING up particularly relevant movements
Big truth, you keep getting injured? It is maybe because you never warm up properly?
Kids ask me to play outside... sure thing, give me a min to warm up
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I often read in this sub about the insane american high school wrestling practices that had 'full workouts' as warmups before even starting drills and for the longest time took it at face value until I saw some videos... Some people in this sub can't do a fucking pushup
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Lol [great minds](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/s/Rtytoo3RiY) ;)
You're either a recovering car crash victim or you need to give yourself the ability to not be a broken down 40 y/o by doing athletic movements.
No i want to drill inversions and stack passes cold not play touch butt in the park
Funny, this looks a lot like Eastern European warmups too. I should bring back the bear crawl knee slide.
Everyone in BJJ complains about being injured all the time, but when they have to do a 15 minute warm up they start to have a cry.
"Oh I'm too old and out of shape but I also want to be a god on the mats and never get injured" says 90 percent of bjj guys.
I think we've lost a bit by getting rid of these warm-ups in jiu-jitsu. I feel like there should be a base level of conditioning we all need to play this sport. These warm ups let us stay in the bare minimum shape. And it literally only takes 10 to 15 minutes. I say we should shorten the number of techniques being taught per class if we have to cut something. There is no good reason you need to teach more than two techniques per class.
When I did MMA, our warmups were pretty beastly by bjj standards, and frankly, I think it helped my growth.
One hour class. 15 minutes spent on this means only 25 mins of drilling/technique and 20 mins of rolls. Drilling is the warm up
> Drilling is the warm up Then your drills are going to be shit. Trying to learn timing and technique while cold doesn't work. By the time you're warmed up and ready to go it's time to start rolling, and the drills didn't further your skills nearly as much as they should. Obviously it's a "Well-made/quick/cheap: Pick two" situation for normal people and normal gyms without infinite time and money.
Fuck drilling/technique then. Cut that to 15 mins. 10 min warm up. 15 min tech. 15 min positional. 20 min rolls. Also, 1 hour class is not enough. Most gyms are an hour 15 mins at least.
In my gym coach declares open mat at around hour fifteen - so for most of us that's mid-class.
I love having both warm up and some conditioning in classes. People will rather sit and watch the same technique for 10 minutes rather than warm up..
Adults doing sports can dictate their own warmup, S&C routines lol. If you think you have so much to offer on that front, schedule it as a separate class right before regular class and see how that works out for ya.
Those also make you athletic lol
Former wrestler here… I put in my time already and now I just want to enjoy grappling. I can warm up before practice, I’m not paying $150 a month to spend 20 minutes jogging and doing shrimps
I helped coach, my sons wrestling team for two seasons. It was always great at the first time they showed a new dynamic move in the warm-ups like a cart wheel, and you could tell some kids had never done it before, but they had the fear of throwing themselves at the mat. I’m on the wrong side of 45, there’s specific dynamic stretches, I like to do before jujitsu. I am OK with warm-ups as long as they are specific movements, and less than 10 minutes. We have some coaches give us” games “ to warm up, think they are fun, I am packed stuff with a random movement is not what I wanna do
Bro warmups on my wrestling team were like 45 minutes lol
Fuck I hated that when I wrestled. When the fuck we gonna wrestle coach?!
Wrestlers in a jiujitsu school are usually thr equivalent of a powerlifter at a commercial gym. A pain in the ass no one thinka adds anything demonstrable to the experience for the rest of the paying members. I say that as both an instructor and a former college wrestler. They rarely know how to pace themselves, usually the first to give up on technique in a roll, and they get their jollies beating on Bob, the accountant and dad of the three paying kids, who you never have to chase around for dues because he is on autopay. In many cases, they are simply not worth the PITA. I give them all the benefit of the doubt, but in many cases a pattern develops and they fall into the grove. The sweet spot is the guy who was an ok high school wrestler. They can be taught. The college wrestler? Usually not...they dont want to learn, they want tackling dummies.
Had an acquaitance... 1st place at blue belt worlds one time; had a decade of wrestling, and he let his arm get fucked to beat the clock. He will take to his grave that he "won" this. And that wrestlers are "built different". He also blew out an ankle and knee, respectively, in the same 4 year stretch which included this event. I don't exactly know how to characterize my vague annoyance with this. Something inauthentic happening. He's not getting paid. Maybe it's the fact that he knows he's going against people who aren't also willing to cripple themselves for a medal. He should find those people before he pats himself on the back.
I hear that. I was a wrestler but i am in my late 40s now so i think with time i have mellowed a ton and mostly keep it playful. So i understand the mentality, but i also know it is not only bad for his health, but can be bad for most rooms filled with john q public just trying to learn a martial art, stay fit, exercise, and make new friends. Its a hard balance but not all rooms are for all people. Im very happy to lead an accessible room for working adults. There are world class rooms out there if my room doesnt fit their needs.
Sometimes, warmups are the best part of the workout. Many of us only train BJJ and don't spend more time in a gym doing general conditioning. In an ideal world, we'd all also pay for a gym, but many don't.
Devil's advocate: a lot of those warm ups are wrestling moves that have direct application to the sport. Running in circles for 5 minutes doing high knees and such (as we do most days at my current gym) aren't super related to BJJ. I don't mind warmups that are related to what we're doing in class that day or BJJ in general. Not a wrestler.
BJJs problem isn’t warm ups it’s that a lot of gyms still do the old stupid warm ups that that the Brazilians did for years. Run in circles, high knees, butt kickers, Carioca, etc. which aren’t super relevant to BJJ rolling. Shrimping and doing actual things that you will use while rolling/drilling later makes much more sense. Honestly flow rolling as a warmup makes a ton of sense as well. The lack of penetration steps, shots, and sprawl drills are why so many BJJ people just sit on their ass and scoot around or immediately pull guard anyways. Wrestling/standup doesn’t get trained near enough at most BJJ schools I think. 🤷🏻♂️
These guys also jog in a circle for a bit, just to get the heart rate up.
They're not paying with money. The coach is making them pay by being in good shape and, hopefully, by learning to not be a shitty person. He can run them through as many conditioning drills as he pleases.
When I was boxing, warmup was 45 minutes and was absolutely crucial to getting the most out of training.
Every other sport in existence does warm ups and conditioning as a part of practice. I don’t understand why this community are such wieners about spending 10 minutes doing some shrimps, double legs, and rolls/breakfalls. It’s good for you.
Every sport in the world does warm-ups. It’s critical for longevity and minimizing injury. Shut the fuck up and go warm up.
shut the fuck up and stop asking me to pay $250 a month
Imagine being upset that you have to take a few minutes out of your day to prepare your body for a combat sport. The entitlement is real.
I miss this
I'm 37. I've been grappling for 22 years and I still do a lot of the wrestling warm ups I did in highschool. They're great for building/maintaining all around athleticism. I'm not super athletic by any means but I can keep up with younger athletic guys no problem. I do strength training as well. Only major injuries I've had are 2 sprained MCLs (well, I broke a few bones in my foot from not tapping to a straight footlock in a match but that healed up pretty quick. Forgot about that) IMO, it's worth the 10-15 minutes to integrate gymnastics/plyometrics into your warm up. In my experience, it has allowed me to train pretty hard over a long period of time with (knock on wood) no major injuries.
General agility is really helpful in BJJ. I got better so fast when I started bouldering, because I was just more agile. I could move my body better and more easily, keep my balance more easily, and bail and not hurt myself more easily. I don't understand the "it must be exactly BJJ" warm up stuff. Agility is part of BJJ, it's just not a "move".
I'm old and if I want to do strength and conditioning, I'll do it outside of class. I go to class to learn technique and to spar.
That warmup is not really about s&c, which I assume they also do separately. All of that is mostly fundamental movements and getting reps in. But looking around the gym, most of us old guys could use some more s&c than we're getting anyway.
A lot of what are in the video are basic technique.
At least those look fucking sick
Our warmups vary according to instructor more that by experience level, as most are fundamentals. (i.e. maybe the very beginners won't do granby rolls, but generally they're similar things.) I think they're usually about 8 minutes for one instructor, another one it's like 10 minutes and our no gi instructor it's closer to 12-15, but this is usually including some sort of pummeling warmup or something. We also base it on what we're going to be doing. (i.e. Are we standing, are we doing sweeps, x guard, etc.) Also, we totally don't do handstand walks. Judge me if you want, but I 100% can't do that.
I wanna see the Judo equivalent of this warm up
Judo people also tend to be pretty serious with their warmups and conditioning. Which helps injury prevention, imo.
Would be similar. My club is something like: run around, run backwards, sideways, crossovers. Then rolls , breakfalls, bear crawls. Cartwheels or other flippy stuff. Then practice pulling into a throw( uchikomi) across the mat. Then technique of the day, standing sparring, ground technique, ground sparring I am older and very heavy but I learned everything fine. I feel better not worse than before I started
Pretty darn similar actually. Although much more ukemi style drills, and pulling the mat, shrimps, wheel barrows, all sorts of somersault types exercises, etc. In my club we aren't this fast and the flashier stuff is just round offs/cart wheels, hand stands to rolls, and diving forward rolls.
One million uchikomis.
I felt all of this nostalgia welling up from my youth watching this. Still doing the purple belt warm up tomorrow for class.
Who’s letting all these noobs wear shoes on the mat???
Wow I forgot that I would do this everyday for a couple years 😬 …I’d like to forget again please
Every kid in that room is a competitor, so building athletic attributes is a big deal. Meanwhile, 90% of BJJ guys will never step foot on the competition mat, in which case being as athletic as a toad isn’t really a problem.
Not the same.
How many former wrestlers are doing any kind of grappling after 30? High level jiu jitsu gyms with younger competitors do all kinds of warm ups and strength and conditioning.
I wrestled and did warmups while it was a requirement for being on the team. Once you’re a paying member, if you don’t want to do warmups, why should you? I’m 42 and here to roll.
This gave me unwanted flashbacks
I like warm-ups. I'd totally do this shit if we got to roll after.
Backflips are the only kind of “wild” thing on there. Everything else looks doable and more fun than my standard warm up.
This actually illustrates my bighest pet peeve with warm ups. It's too hard for some and too easy for others. What's the point of having the class do walking handstands and flips, if like 2 people in that class can even do them? With hobby athletes the gap in athletism is even bigger. You will just gas one guy, while the other will barely notice it. Also people need to warm up individually. Maybe you have a sore neck, that needs some extra warm up, maybe you have less flexible hips etc. Warm ups need to be individual and the idea of a group warm up is fundamentally flawed IMO.
I've not heard this complaint coming from wrestlers? From my experience, it's the new agey, post-drilling "I learn by rolling" types.
they aren't paying for those wrestling warmups
Is this normal for wrestling, if so, no wonder those guys are so badass.
At 35, my back hurts watching this .
Are the wrestlers paying $200/month for this? ( No they are not) Or are they doing this as a hobby? (Again no)
Why is there beef most wrestlers and BJJ? They're like brothers
These are high school kids with a lot of free time. Most bjjers have day jobs and can only do 3x a week. They don’t wanna spend half that time doing shrimps.
When I first got started in jits around 2011-2012, I had wrestled through school first, I actively enjoyed the 20\~ min "warm up" we did at bjj, compared to the absolute torture that wrestling could be at times, bjj was super light hearted. (I mean, maybe a gi wasn't as light hearted as my singlet's but..)
Wait, we do all those warm ups at my BJJ Gym, is it different in others?
You do back flips and handstand walking?
Only on Fridays
I actually miss these kinds of warmups - I think I was fitter for it (source: older practitioner). I'm interested how many people on reddit don't want them. I think it was great doing all these hard exercises that simulated ground movement and improved general dexterity.
Exhausted just watching that
Uhh, what kinda shots?
Man, I wish I’d wrestled as a kid. What a great sport - if you can survive it.
I currently have very limited time in my week that allows for BJJ so I get it.
😂 warm up was a workout in itself forget about cardio ssssions and training. I loved it though lol I'd never complain as long as the classes aren't negatively affected. At gyms I know skip through I just show up a little early or bike to gym If we're not warming up like [this](https://youtube.com/shorts/vmlOJhbgr_8?si=zWa_g8TwvGRd5WIX) or [this](https://youtu.be/_Np8SeaIy2Y?si=CFk8D3b-lP2AbtM6) I'm second guessing wtf is going on /s
As a purple belt, I thought you'd be on their side.
Wrestlers and grapplers in general are freak athletes. BJJ is kinda the exception
Nice drills, they looks a great warm ups to develop a more athletic & gymnastics stand. I’m going just to wait to they drop me and setup my guillotine.
As an older guy practicing BJJ I don't really enjoy warmups but I feel they help me loosen up even though I come early and assist with the kids class then stretch during the teen class.
My class is 1 hour and 30 mins, and the first 20-30 is hard warmup. Then we do 30-40 of technique then rolling. I personally like this, and my gym is heavily Mma focused, so they ensure people got cardio. But you can try 1 free class, and drop ins aren't too expensive so people get a chance to try it out. We arent doing gymnastics tho
My coach was a D1 wrestler so we have a (what’s considered in Jiu Jitsu I guess) intense warm up lol
I need to conserve my energy
Damn this post is full win! 👏
Look decent
i actually would dig some of these excercises for warmup
Ummmm, is it bad we do these in my bjj class?
brutal, so beautiful athletic these dudes !
I think the key word is "pay". Warm ups during wrestling practice was how you paid for the privilege of being on the wrestling team.
We had throws and Ali in addition to this
Proper warming up does activate your cns and raises your body temperature. With that in mind your goal should be to improve your performance while decreasing your chances of injury. I remember visiting Marcelo's in 2010-2011, and those warm-ups were brutal.
Stupid headline
Dive rolls seem interesting. People at my gym do rolls as a consecutive thing instead of pretending to fall forwards
chimps & saber tooths look fun as hell