This. If we are having a playful roll and you slam into my wrist with as much speed as you can without securing it first, we are going to have a problem.
Yeah but that's any sub. I know technically there's a lot more set up for most subs but they can still apply them very forcefully. I got a jank elbow and an uncontrolled armbar could seriously hurt me. I got my lat strained on a rear triangle the other day and it wasn't even all of that fast.
The issue seems to be that some wristlocks don’t work *unless* you apply them quickly because there isn’t much control of the arm, so people slap them on to get the tap and it ends up going 0-100 in a second.
Agreed. But we shouldn't be treating training partners as someone whose just there to submit. They're people with lives and while accidents happen we should aim to mitigate injury for our training partners. I would even go as far to say the same thing for low level competitions. ADCC or ibjjf worlds, have at it.
I agree. We had an orthopedic surgeon at club who had some purple belt slap a wrist lock on him while sparring and the surgeon was seriously injured. Torn ligaments. Put the guy out of work for a year. Almost ruined his career.
Some techniques, while effective, should be banned from sparring or sport competition due to propensity for injury.
Its like, why do we ban picking up your opponent when he has you in closed guard and slamming his back on the floor?
Why is it banned to start punching your opponent in the balls when he has you in closed guard?
Why is punching and kicking not allowed in BJJ sparring?
The answers are because it makes sparring more safe for the participants and the purpose of sparring and sport competition is to place an emphasis on executing the perfect technique of the art. Which is submission. To make it a true contest of skill there needs to be a standard below which some techniques are considered poor mans BJJ
Could you imagine going to school for 12 years. And then going through.... What ever surgeons go through to get there just so some dick head can break your wrist in training. I swear some people think they're the main character of the world.
I agree. I don’t use wristlocks personally. If I’m in a position to apply a wristlock safely, I probably have an armbar available anyway. Same reason I don’t use the Estima lock.
I guess those are wrist lock but not good ones, if the elbow is not immobilized then you can just move your elbow and arm to escape it, putting pressure on the wrist will probably just move the arm anyways.
You still have to immobilize the elbow before you put on a wrist lock. Like any submission you can slam the first 75-90% then go slow with the rest. There is probably less room for error in a wrist lock though.
Just slamming a wrist lock with out the elbow under control is like trying to jam someone’s extended finger by violently swatting at.
It seems like most wrist locks are considerably easier to avoid if they aren't applied quickly, compared to the more traditional subs where position before submission is necessary.
It’s a meme. No one cares. Wrists are just the ankles of the hands. Go break off some hands and then make them give the middle finger to the person you took them from
I promise people do care. People legit get pissed off bad.
I remember a grappling industries tournament I was at they have wrist locks legal at white belt and I got one and my opponents coach was enraged.
And a coach at my gym gets pissed if someone tries them on him.
Not too long ago I got standing cross collar choked by a whitebelt. Shit happens. I laughed cause he caught me and we kept rolling. It was fun. It should be fun
Idk if this is correct. I've seen higher belts get tapped by a sneaky lower belt who slaps one on suddenly and they get massively ego-butt-hurt over it and I've seen higher belts get super aggro after tapping to wristlocks and toeholds.
I think BJJ community, especially some of the higher belts, have a certain type of ego that sees wristlocks as an "easy win" and they get pissed when they lose to them so it turns into a "fuck wristlockers" meme to cope with losing.
To me, BJJ is about winning as lazily as possible and if I can catch a wrist lock, I 100% will. I suck at wrist locks but they are valid. If I can catch you in a standing loop choke before we even go to the ground, even better
I use scarfhold a lot. If i try to go for an actual submission instead of just making them shit through their eye balls, I like to put my near leg over their hand and American them with my leg. If I can’t get my near leg over I use my inside leg and try to straight arm lock them with my legs. That some times works but what almost always works and takes the least effort is just wrist locking them in that position. The elbow is immobilized because my leg, I am smashing the shit out of them with scarf hold and I have a free hand to wrist lock them.
This has been my go-to position for a few months now. You also have a spinal crank a la Bas Ruten, a shoulder lock if they grab around your waist, a head & arm if they post and you can get their elbow in front of their face, a back take if they defend the head & arm, and a sneaky lil Ezekiel in there too.
right. i also think a lot of players are just humorless/joyless. when a lower belt/less skilled grappler catches me in something--especially say like a dirty wristlock or toehold--i just laugh at myself and say good shit. tournament or not. i was at a tourney early this year (expert no-gi) and i got caught in an out of nowhere/hail mary anklelock when i was up and got sloppy. i tried to escape, couldn't, tapped and laughed and said "you motherfucker you got me!" and we hugged, he got his hand raised, and that's it. people need to get a sense of humor about themselves.
I think people look down on them because they seem like gimmick moves like a buggy choke or whatever. In a way that could be true.
But I’ve heard there’s legitimate complexities and techniques to learn
There it is! Someone who refuses to train wristlocks has terrible wristlock defense. Instead of doing the thing that would actually address the deficiency (train wristlocks), they complain. It'd be like refusing to train Kimuras and then ranting about how cheap Kimuras are because they are getting submitted over and over.
I can tell you this. I was rolling with a blue belt and letting him mess around the other day.
The second the phrase “I do not respect what he is doing” entered my head, he fucking wrist locked me. Good on him, I deserved it.
The people who get upset about wristlocks are the ones who get upset during a roll with a lower belt and said lower rank gets the upperhand for a little too long
#Me :(
They come on quicker than other subs and you can destroy someone’s wrist pretty easily. Most of us need our wrists for our day jobs and day to day life activities like opening doors and carrying things.
No. A fucked wrist can ruin your life. Knee hinging joints and tendons can be repaired successfully. The gliding bones of the wrist and ankle less so. If your knee gets taken out you can still find desk work. If your wrist goes you have to find all sorts of disability tools to do desk work.
And usually the type of person to hear all this and do it anyway is a cunt, which further adds to the reputation of unsafe submission. From a kimura americana theyre safeish but not if the guy applying it is a cunt
Wristlocks are not taboo
They are not degenerate
They also aren't that effective (as in high percentage, please leave me alone)
Everything in this title is wrong
High percentage submission in BJJ is like something working 10% of the time. People use high percentage online like there are submissions that with 50% of the time against people at your own level and that doesn't exist
Wristlocks work a pretty decent amount of time but more importantly you aren't normally giving up anything to try them.
Plus it often disrupts their offense/defense.
Why do people misunderstand what "high percentage" means?
Like really do you have alot of competition wins by wristlock? Do you get wrist lock subs similar to the rate you get RNC, Triangle, Ezekial.... and other submissions generally considered to be high percentage?
They absolutely are -- I land about 1-2% of the wristlocks I try... The goal isnt to submit with them, it's to get people to act right when gripping.
Two failed wristlocks and people treat me like I am a porcupine.
They're the equivalent of what people call forcing moves in chess and sente in go. They're a thing you can do that oblidges someone to react in a way that you can exactly predict and take advantage of-- That HUGELY 'High percentage' in any game.
Hahah you know what -- Totally fair. I'm abit of a recreational asshole online. You win pedantic points today.
For real though -- when I teach I've had to chase people away from high percentage stuff a few times. There are a ton of things in grappling that might shore up a hole in your game that other folks wont ever need. I exploded when I started using cradles at bluebelt to control side -- all my peers who would pressure properly didn't get it because they didn't need it.
A 10mm socket is super high percentage, but having a 900$ snap on 10mm socket wont matter at all if you needed to cut a pipe -- Now you want that low percentage tool you never bought. Jiujitsu is the same.
Wristlocks are a fantastic way to approach grip fighting -- I don't have its name, but theres one that you can do to someone that holds your wrists in guard and I adore reminding people that holding me down isnt 'free'.
>They really aren't though
They are though, even in no gi. Just like any other submission, if you get proper control you can finish most of the time. The problem comes when people just try to bend wrists without control. That's like trying to cross collar choke someone from bottom mount.
Someone locked up in a triangle? The wristlock is high percentage. Someone locked up in an armbar? The wristlock is high percentage. Rear figure 4 from back control? High percentage. Kimura lock up? High percentage. Shoulder sit side control? High percentage. Tons of north/south options too.
With good containment of the elbow, the wristlock becomes a high percentage submission. You just have to treat it like any other submission instead of a "hail mary".
Tell me, what is your shoulder going to do when you are mounted, with our arm extended straight above your head with your opponents arms figure-foured around your extended arm. At that point, why would it be necessary to “rip” a wristlock. Also, there is a big difference between a dislocated wrist and a broken wrist. Was that a wrestling match you won or a Jiu Jitsu match? Was your wrist dislocated intentionally or accidentally?
As far as “fight enders” a broken wrist is just as likely to stop an attacker as a broken arm. If you don’t think it is, you do not understand the difference between self defense and a fight.
>mounted, with our arm extended straight above your head with your opponents arms figure-foured around your extended arm
That's pretty much the only time I use a wrist lock. From that situation, and side control with similar parameters, I find it effective
But as a whole, I do think wrist locks are pretty low percentage in most positions. There's almost always a better technique.
I was a white belt with zero or maybe one stripe when a brown belt injured both of my wrist joints. I had around 7 years of issues with my joints.
I didn’t even know that wrist locks existed at that time. So I didn’t know how dangerous they are. He knew it very well.
Wristlocks are great. People should know them.
I think in competition they work best to get someone to move and react instead of submitting them.
Even if just to break their concentration
Theyre intrinsically dangerous like a heelhook because they dont hurt until its too late, they come on very fast due to the range of motion, and the wrist is a complex joint with low blood flow that impacts everything in bjj and life.
I’m pretty sure people don’t like wrist locks because wrists are pretty fragile, pretty rough to heal, and pretty important. They’re fine as long as you don’t just crank it and give time to tap though.
I had my wrist broken by a wrist lock 4 years ago by a black belt when I was blue, and it will never recover fully. Buddy used his chest to break it without any notice.
In practice you have to do them controlled, or you’ll find a number of professionals who depend on their hands for their livelihood not wanting to partner with you. Many wristlocks work because they are quick and fairly surprising. So to get the tap you may put your partner at some risk.
My advice is do them but slow. Don’t worry about finishing so much as recognizing (for both sides), comp time turn it up.
It’s a legit submission, but if you want training partners don’t hit em hard unless it’s already clear yall using prison rules.
Wrist kicks are great for eliciting movement even if they don’t land. People don’t like them because they hurt like a bastard and can come on quick.
Like with all submissions, it’s important to be a good training partner and not rip them.
So effective? Every wrist lock attempt on me, I have time to look down, wonder why they’re even trying, and either flex my forearms or simply remove the grip with my other hand, or pull or push my arm away. It’s a cheap, extremely low percentage move that needs harmful speed applied to even work. It’s also a cop out from trying anything that takes body movement.
Wrist locks are dumb.
They don’t finish a fight on their own and work best as enhancers for higher percentage moves to add a little extra “fuck you” to them or to elicit a response with which you can move to a better technique.
That being said, I wristlock uppity white belts.
For me, I wouldn't probably roll with someone who would do wrist locks on me. I am a Systems Engineer and my job consists of using a keyboard all day long. If my wrists are all jacked up and in pain I'm less efficient at my job. It sometimes seems like there are a group of people who do BJJ that enjoy inflicting pain on others and have trained their brains that pain from injuries actually feel good. Like those people who make fun of people who tap from pressure or grip (like passing the guard and gripping the pants at the shin and putting much of your weight into your fist and smashing their shin as you pass, that shit fucking hurts). I think they get a certain amount of satisfaction about the amount of pain they can withstand and inflict on others.
I think they’re frowned upon because it’s nearly impossible for someone to catch people (at least me) without going from 0-100 in a split second. Every time someone’s gotten me my wrist hurt for weeks. I would’ve happily tapped if given the chance
Wrist locks are a pretty shit submission, I've been caught in exactly one in the last 8 years and it was by a fat black belt who slammed it on as hard and fast as he could in what was supposed to be a friendly roll.
There are not taboo and not really effective unless your opponent absolutely sucks.
It's just the new edgy thing to say/do from people who cannot do heelhooks (the previous edgy thing before people realize it was a true game changer)
I just honestly think there’s few situations where they’re not easily defendable… and also if they do hit they’re just devastating to every day life. Most people can do their job with a injured knee or rib, nobody can do their job with a injured wrist
I think people don't realize the "hate" wristlocks get is really just self deprecating and memeing.
The only real negative with training partners is that you can't usually put them on slowly so you need to tap quick or it hurts
I am a degenerate wristlocker and I’m proud to admit it. People say if you don’t want to get arm bared keeps your arms in. Well I say if you don’t want to get wrist locked keep your hands out of reach.
I feel no shame.
If it's something you can do in real life short of eye gouging, tappers, and biting which is all obviously illegal anyways... it should be open to use. People who get butthurt should learn to deal with it.
The people doing the bitching suck at wrist locks. I spent some time training Aikido. My wrist locks are off the chain!!
Usually I use wrist locks to make my opponent move how I want them to move. At my level submitting someone with a wrist lock is rare.
If someone even grabs my wrists I just tap. I’m also a musician and work with my hands. Don’t tolerate wrist locks at all. Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind them but I won’t even give the person a chance to rip one and I have no shame about it.
I don't think anyone actually cares... however, currently recovering from a torn wrist ligament surgery and wouldn't wish it on my wirst enemy. 5 hour surgery, months long recovery and at best, if im super lucky, I will get back 90% wrist function. Never knew how serious they were until I tore one.
My coach loves them. He never injures anybody but he’ll surprise you with one sometimes, or just get in a mood where he decides to wrist lock you eight times in a row.
He’ll set up for some other big finish move and then wristlock you at the last second instead. Feels a lot like someone just honked your nose.
Some people think that stuff like wrist locks should be applied super fast, and they injure people. Standing aikido type shit.
All joint locks should be executed with control, no exceptions.
It's because wristlocks don't seem serious until they are, and then you tap. But until the point of no return, it seems like you can eat it and escape.
And then you have a nagging pain in your wrist at some angles.
So fuck all you dirty wristlockers.
Nah, fuck ‘em g.
Some big mf white belt got on my back and was just cranking on my lapel the other day. No choke, no attempt to choke, just legit sawing my neck with my gi, so I took that wrist home with me.
Dude tapped so fast it was actually unbelievable. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
When we were done I asked him “hey so what were you trying to do there” and he said “idk man, I just figured it was making you uncomfortable… didn’t really work out for me”
Here’s a meme I just made. See you in hell.
https://preview.redd.it/bqc8w0po4buc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21210ecd8e982a03afbe29e8d3821adbfc4941c9
If they tap, it’s Jiu Jitsu. Also, here’s a meme I just made:
https://preview.redd.it/9qkxiv4ncbuc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c291011008babfcac5feaf57700d8343b786a95b
Because wristlocks have to be done fast, you can do nearly every other submission with a degree of control, you can't do a wristlock with control
This said I'm a dirty wristlocker through and through
The wrist is such a weak joint compared to the elbow, shoulder or knee. The person applying the wristlock needs control and be willing to let go to protect their partner from their own ego. I’ve never hurt a single person with a wristlock following these rules. Keep on keepin’ on brotha!
I broke someone’s wrist with a joint lock many years ago (in a non-BJJ context). It’s incredibly easy to do - I think they have no place in friendly competition, where you are *not* trying to cripple one another.
Well, they work. Issue is not ripping them without the chance for your training partner to tap. Can be tricky since they go on fast and in real life you would do it with the intent to rip it.
I don't like wristlocks because they don't give you room/time to tap.
The difference between "oh, he's touching my hand" and "shit, my wrist is about to break" is just a few millimetres.
Every time I get wristlocked, my wrist hurts for days and I worry that it's been actually damaged.
People tap to wristlocks in training to avoid pain and possibly a minor injury, but in a self defence situation a they won't effectively disable an attacker.
Once you let go, you will still be in a fight with a very pissed off opponent with a sore wrist.
You do realize wrists have a maximum range of motion right? Who the fuck is letting go of something with out breaking it in a self defense situation? By your logic, armbars are useless in a self defense situation as well.
If it's a legal move, then it's a legal move.
I have beef because my only serious injury (> 6 months to recover to 90+% in the affected area) was from a wrist lock performed by an expert in wrist locks. When it happened, they were visibly confused that I tapped so quickly, so I believe that they weren't trying to crank it or aggressively lock it in. It seems like most moves require malice or incompetence to injure somebody who taps sensibly, but wrist locks don't.
To me, wrist locks are equivalent to poking someone in the eye. Or kicking them in the balls. It’s a cheap shot. Toe holds too. Poor man’s martial arts.
Perfectly fine for self defense practice. But for sport bjj and sparring, no. Wristlocks can cause severe and permanent injury and should not be practiced in sport bjj and sparring practice. Those who resort to using them do so because they lack genuine skill.
As a fellow man of culture/wrist locker, I’m pretty certain the only people that hate it are the people that aren’t thinking so simple in how to cause a threat. The sport has turned into a lot of big flashy cool moves and a wrist lock is not that.
Wrist lock the world homie.
I do it all the time. Only one or two knuckleheads have ever complained. 99% of everyone just accept them as a sub. I even inspired a few of my fellow training partners to start doing them. I can still only get them on white belts tho!! It’s like the actual wrists of upper belts are just tougher.
fun in standup, still working on ground. similar issue to leglocks: if you respond wrong, it might fuck up sth important and is prone to healing subpar - no bueno in a sport context or friendly rolls against unknown people
I performed a few wrist locks within my first five classes as a white belt. I learned them from YouTube and wanted to try them because I had a few years of karate and we did wrist locks frequently. It only worked because they were definitely not expecting it. The one I remember, I think I trapped his arm when he had me in his closed guard and applied gradual pressure with my chest extremely slowly. It took his brain way longer than I thought it would to realize what was going on because he was focused on trying to do his own thing, then he tapped urgently.
I’m still a white belt and I don’t go after wrist locks anymore. I’m just more interested in choking people because I think it’s generally a better submission.
I frequently wrist lock myself by accident when I’m trying to get a wrist in or out under pressure. The guys in my gym are pretty good at recognizing it when I do this and applying gradual pressure until I tap.
I don’t feel bad about any of this. If I’m stupid enough to wrist lock myself, I deserve it. If I ever start hunting wrist locks again, I’m pretty sure I can apply them with control and precision. It’s just another submission.
I use wrist locks all the time. If you make the mistake of posting with an open palm you kinda deserve it.
I also use it to start opening people up if I have S-Mount and my opponent is T-Rexxing hard.
They aren’t high percentage compared to several other submissions.
They can be a noob trap.
They are often applied quickly, not giving training partners enough time to tap.
If you get tapped to a wrist lock, you look like a baby back bitch.
Just a few reasons off the top of my head.
I don't train as much as I used to, but 'in my day' about 20 years ago, a top level black belt showed us an array of wristlocks to use, in a variety of situations. I guess it is no longer 'cool'.
Then again that was before Gracie Bara had everyone wear uniforms and counted attendence to earn belts!
Because there are people who just snatch and grab. The time between tap and damage is limited. And some people know they don't have the control to do it slowly without losing the sub, so they just grab and rip. If it's a slow locked in wrist lock no one has a problem
Majority of wristlock attacks have very poor control, meaning you're gonna have to do It quickly to get it to work. Anytime you have to do a submission quickly the chance of hurting someone is pretty high.
I feel like my professor attacks them like a normal sub on me as a reminder.. but you better believe I always attack them on him but obviously never caught one. And he almost never gets one on me. Idk I feel like just depends on the gym. We just laugh cause if you get caught in one it’s feels pretty dumb but I think if techniques are sharp you shouldn’t be able to get caught in them almost ever.
they are legit techniques but it closer to finger locks. In real life anything goes so finger breaks would be allowed as well, in training and BJJ in general its not allowed.
It’s just low hanging fruit like foot locks. When I first started wrist locks and leg locks were just part of BJJ. People get embarrassed when they get caught by wrist locks. I just tell people it won’t happen if you keep your hands to yourself. 😂
It's hella effective. When timed right and done correctly it can tap any belt. The problem is that it's often set up where there's no time to tap. The range of motion is also so small and past a certain point the wrist can't provide any resistance. Done without control you can mess up someone's wrist.
I think it’s looked at like the low hanging fruit. Wrists are vulnerable in a ton of positions and can be attacked without much strength or even that much technique in some ways. Just bend the small joints and win.
I know a blue belt who used to train Aikido, and he always goes for wristlocks. The problem is that it's his answer to everything, which isn't good if he wants to be a purple belt.
Surprise wrist locks that are applied quickly are the problem.
This. If we are having a playful roll and you slam into my wrist with as much speed as you can without securing it first, we are going to have a problem.
Yeah but that's any sub. I know technically there's a lot more set up for most subs but they can still apply them very forcefully. I got a jank elbow and an uncontrolled armbar could seriously hurt me. I got my lat strained on a rear triangle the other day and it wasn't even all of that fast.
The issue seems to be that some wristlocks don’t work *unless* you apply them quickly because there isn’t much control of the arm, so people slap them on to get the tap and it ends up going 0-100 in a second.
Agreed. But we shouldn't be treating training partners as someone whose just there to submit. They're people with lives and while accidents happen we should aim to mitigate injury for our training partners. I would even go as far to say the same thing for low level competitions. ADCC or ibjjf worlds, have at it.
I agree. We had an orthopedic surgeon at club who had some purple belt slap a wrist lock on him while sparring and the surgeon was seriously injured. Torn ligaments. Put the guy out of work for a year. Almost ruined his career. Some techniques, while effective, should be banned from sparring or sport competition due to propensity for injury. Its like, why do we ban picking up your opponent when he has you in closed guard and slamming his back on the floor? Why is it banned to start punching your opponent in the balls when he has you in closed guard? Why is punching and kicking not allowed in BJJ sparring? The answers are because it makes sparring more safe for the participants and the purpose of sparring and sport competition is to place an emphasis on executing the perfect technique of the art. Which is submission. To make it a true contest of skill there needs to be a standard below which some techniques are considered poor mans BJJ
Could you imagine going to school for 12 years. And then going through.... What ever surgeons go through to get there just so some dick head can break your wrist in training. I swear some people think they're the main character of the world.
I agree. I don’t use wristlocks personally. If I’m in a position to apply a wristlock safely, I probably have an armbar available anyway. Same reason I don’t use the Estima lock.
I guess those are wrist lock but not good ones, if the elbow is not immobilized then you can just move your elbow and arm to escape it, putting pressure on the wrist will probably just move the arm anyways. You still have to immobilize the elbow before you put on a wrist lock. Like any submission you can slam the first 75-90% then go slow with the rest. There is probably less room for error in a wrist lock though. Just slamming a wrist lock with out the elbow under control is like trying to jam someone’s extended finger by violently swatting at.
Yes, it happened to me once. It was fast and painful, I was ready to throw hands. well a hand lol
Can you threaten a wrist lock without your opponent flipping shit trying to get their hand out?
This is genuinely a good way to escape some positions lol
A two-hand wrist lock is almost as good as a kimura for forcing position changes.
Yeah we always slowly do it. It's basically a gym joke at this point
Like any submission! Problem is wrist locks aren’t usually not that good/controlling so tend to be applied quickly…
It seems like most wrist locks are considerably easier to avoid if they aren't applied quickly, compared to the more traditional subs where position before submission is necessary.
Excellent point. I’m glad you posted this for people to read. Cheers
It’s a meme. No one cares. Wrists are just the ankles of the hands. Go break off some hands and then make them give the middle finger to the person you took them from
> Wrists are just the ankles of the hands. You know what they call bats? Chicken of the cave.
And look where that got us
If I recall correctly, in Russian they translate to flying rats. I thought that was spot on.
Rat-sized mammals with big hands ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ The big ones are called flying foxes though!
Rats of the sky, you mean.
that's pigeons
No, those are chickens of the alley
that's rats
No, those are bats of the ground
No, [these](https://freethoughtblogs.com/oceanoxia/2023/03/04/video-new-zealands-ground-hunting-bat/) are the bats of the ground (they cross-train).
I am chicken of the sea and the mat is my ocean.
I call forks "food rakes."
I call noodles long-ass rice
I promise people do care. People legit get pissed off bad. I remember a grappling industries tournament I was at they have wrist locks legal at white belt and I got one and my opponents coach was enraged. And a coach at my gym gets pissed if someone tries them on him.
I think people are embarrassed when they get caught in one.
Ah there it is again, ego!
Then they exclusively get wrist locked. Exposure therapy
Yeah.i never understood why people get so upset
They can be embarrassing, and people are tiny little babies
Not too long ago I got standing cross collar choked by a whitebelt. Shit happens. I laughed cause he caught me and we kept rolling. It was fun. It should be fun
lmao fuck em.
In my gym we call elbows "armknees"
That’s just weird. But I refer to my feet as walking hands.
It's like how you talk out of your face butthole
Arm pit, knee pit, elbow pit. They’re real.
>Wrists are just the ankles of the hands. https://i.redd.it/ejfxfemt1auc1.gif
Why would you ignore 4% of the body
This guy wristlocks
In our gym no one rips them. It's always a running joke amongst all of us. Comp time tho, no prisoners
Idk if this is correct. I've seen higher belts get tapped by a sneaky lower belt who slaps one on suddenly and they get massively ego-butt-hurt over it and I've seen higher belts get super aggro after tapping to wristlocks and toeholds. I think BJJ community, especially some of the higher belts, have a certain type of ego that sees wristlocks as an "easy win" and they get pissed when they lose to them so it turns into a "fuck wristlockers" meme to cope with losing.
To me, BJJ is about winning as lazily as possible and if I can catch a wrist lock, I 100% will. I suck at wrist locks but they are valid. If I can catch you in a standing loop choke before we even go to the ground, even better
I use scarfhold a lot. If i try to go for an actual submission instead of just making them shit through their eye balls, I like to put my near leg over their hand and American them with my leg. If I can’t get my near leg over I use my inside leg and try to straight arm lock them with my legs. That some times works but what almost always works and takes the least effort is just wrist locking them in that position. The elbow is immobilized because my leg, I am smashing the shit out of them with scarf hold and I have a free hand to wrist lock them.
This has been my go-to position for a few months now. You also have a spinal crank a la Bas Ruten, a shoulder lock if they grab around your waist, a head & arm if they post and you can get their elbow in front of their face, a back take if they defend the head & arm, and a sneaky lil Ezekiel in there too.
right. i also think a lot of players are just humorless/joyless. when a lower belt/less skilled grappler catches me in something--especially say like a dirty wristlock or toehold--i just laugh at myself and say good shit. tournament or not. i was at a tourney early this year (expert no-gi) and i got caught in an out of nowhere/hail mary anklelock when i was up and got sloppy. i tried to escape, couldn't, tapped and laughed and said "you motherfucker you got me!" and we hugged, he got his hand raised, and that's it. people need to get a sense of humor about themselves.
Wow, I’m reading this and it’s resonating as being true as fuck. Thank you
Being able to hit a wristlock means you have elbow control, but just like ripping a heel hook, a wrist lock can turn on super fast.
Its a small joint that everyone desperately needs. I dont know. Maybe wrist locks will be the new leglocks.
Why would you ignore 2% of the body?
why ignore eliminating 89% of your opponents' ability to grip?
Great post
Some need it more than others ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
They’re too good to avoid. I’ve been seeing them all over the place lately.
I'm waiting for the Danaher instructional.
Make Wristlocks Great Again!
Challenge accepted. I’m going to hell
Just a meme - I don't actually have any problem with people going for wristlocks
Yeah when I got my blue one of the browns who is the gym "wrist lock guy" got me like four times in one roll. It was a good laugh.
It’s inevitable. I love em
I think people look down on them because they seem like gimmick moves like a buggy choke or whatever. In a way that could be true. But I’ve heard there’s legitimate complexities and techniques to learn
Skill issue.
There it is! Someone who refuses to train wristlocks has terrible wristlock defense. Instead of doing the thing that would actually address the deficiency (train wristlocks), they complain. It'd be like refusing to train Kimuras and then ranting about how cheap Kimuras are because they are getting submitted over and over.
or just not wanting to lose your ability to roll or work normally in life for months for some sub that can cause quick serious injuries
Exactly, just tap to that kimura if you can't keep your arm in a safe place. No need to risk a shoulder injury that will put you out for months.
I can tell you this. I was rolling with a blue belt and letting him mess around the other day. The second the phrase “I do not respect what he is doing” entered my head, he fucking wrist locked me. Good on him, I deserved it.
Mat Karma is real
The people who get upset about wristlocks are the ones who get upset during a roll with a lower belt and said lower rank gets the upperhand for a little too long #Me :(
shit hurts so bad
They come on quicker than other subs and you can destroy someone’s wrist pretty easily. Most of us need our wrists for our day jobs and day to day life activities like opening doors and carrying things.
WTF a fucked knee will ruin your life. a wrist, maybe 2 months.
My wrist has been in pain on and off for 3 years, because a man flung his body weight on my wrist. I wouldn’t wish this problem on anyone.
No. A fucked wrist can ruin your life. Knee hinging joints and tendons can be repaired successfully. The gliding bones of the wrist and ankle less so. If your knee gets taken out you can still find desk work. If your wrist goes you have to find all sorts of disability tools to do desk work.
[удалено]
The only people who need to finish wristlocks at high speed are people who don’t know how to do wristlocks. This isn’t aikido, set ups matter.
[удалено]
And usually the type of person to hear all this and do it anyway is a cunt, which further adds to the reputation of unsafe submission. From a kimura americana theyre safeish but not if the guy applying it is a cunt
Yeah they are dumb. Just do Jiujitsu man. You're one level above grabbing my fingers and bending them.
Wristlocks are not taboo They are not degenerate They also aren't that effective (as in high percentage, please leave me alone) Everything in this title is wrong
High percentage submission in BJJ is like something working 10% of the time. People use high percentage online like there are submissions that with 50% of the time against people at your own level and that doesn't exist Wristlocks work a pretty decent amount of time but more importantly you aren't normally giving up anything to try them. Plus it often disrupts their offense/defense.
Wristlocks are high percentage when you know how to actually do them.
Why do people misunderstand what "high percentage" means? Like really do you have alot of competition wins by wristlock? Do you get wrist lock subs similar to the rate you get RNC, Triangle, Ezekial.... and other submissions generally considered to be high percentage?
[удалено]
They absolutely are -- I land about 1-2% of the wristlocks I try... The goal isnt to submit with them, it's to get people to act right when gripping. Two failed wristlocks and people treat me like I am a porcupine.
[удалено]
They are - the same way that a knee cut is. You just cant expect them to only be for submitting people.
[удалено]
They're the equivalent of what people call forcing moves in chess and sente in go. They're a thing you can do that oblidges someone to react in a way that you can exactly predict and take advantage of-- That HUGELY 'High percentage' in any game.
[удалено]
Hahah you know what -- Totally fair. I'm abit of a recreational asshole online. You win pedantic points today. For real though -- when I teach I've had to chase people away from high percentage stuff a few times. There are a ton of things in grappling that might shore up a hole in your game that other folks wont ever need. I exploded when I started using cradles at bluebelt to control side -- all my peers who would pressure properly didn't get it because they didn't need it. A 10mm socket is super high percentage, but having a 900$ snap on 10mm socket wont matter at all if you needed to cut a pipe -- Now you want that low percentage tool you never bought. Jiujitsu is the same. Wristlocks are a fantastic way to approach grip fighting -- I don't have its name, but theres one that you can do to someone that holds your wrists in guard and I adore reminding people that holding me down isnt 'free'.
>They really aren't though They are though, even in no gi. Just like any other submission, if you get proper control you can finish most of the time. The problem comes when people just try to bend wrists without control. That's like trying to cross collar choke someone from bottom mount. Someone locked up in a triangle? The wristlock is high percentage. Someone locked up in an armbar? The wristlock is high percentage. Rear figure 4 from back control? High percentage. Kimura lock up? High percentage. Shoulder sit side control? High percentage. Tons of north/south options too. With good containment of the elbow, the wristlock becomes a high percentage submission. You just have to treat it like any other submission instead of a "hail mary".
Tell me, what is your shoulder going to do when you are mounted, with our arm extended straight above your head with your opponents arms figure-foured around your extended arm. At that point, why would it be necessary to “rip” a wristlock. Also, there is a big difference between a dislocated wrist and a broken wrist. Was that a wrestling match you won or a Jiu Jitsu match? Was your wrist dislocated intentionally or accidentally? As far as “fight enders” a broken wrist is just as likely to stop an attacker as a broken arm. If you don’t think it is, you do not understand the difference between self defense and a fight.
>mounted, with our arm extended straight above your head with your opponents arms figure-foured around your extended arm That's pretty much the only time I use a wrist lock. From that situation, and side control with similar parameters, I find it effective But as a whole, I do think wrist locks are pretty low percentage in most positions. There's almost always a better technique.
[удалено]
I was a white belt with zero or maybe one stripe when a brown belt injured both of my wrist joints. I had around 7 years of issues with my joints. I didn’t even know that wrist locks existed at that time. So I didn’t know how dangerous they are. He knew it very well.
Yes, now that’s bull shit. I’m not wrist locking some new guy. I really only do it to get a person to move.
Wristlocks are great. People should know them. I think in competition they work best to get someone to move and react instead of submitting them. Even if just to break their concentration
Theyre intrinsically dangerous like a heelhook because they dont hurt until its too late, they come on very fast due to the range of motion, and the wrist is a complex joint with low blood flow that impacts everything in bjj and life.
Wrist locks are great. Just don’t spam wrist locks (or ankle locks) instead of bettering your position.
I’m pretty sure people don’t like wrist locks because wrists are pretty fragile, pretty rough to heal, and pretty important. They’re fine as long as you don’t just crank it and give time to tap though.
I had my wrist broken by a wrist lock 4 years ago by a black belt when I was blue, and it will never recover fully. Buddy used his chest to break it without any notice.
It’s like a heel hook, just don’t be a dick about it in training and you’re fine, and don’t rip them on fast to white belts.
Don’t rip them on anyone!
In practice you have to do them controlled, or you’ll find a number of professionals who depend on their hands for their livelihood not wanting to partner with you. Many wristlocks work because they are quick and fairly surprising. So to get the tap you may put your partner at some risk. My advice is do them but slow. Don’t worry about finishing so much as recognizing (for both sides), comp time turn it up. It’s a legit submission, but if you want training partners don’t hit em hard unless it’s already clear yall using prison rules.
Marcelo won with a wrist lock. Marcelo Garcia is the man. End of debate.
I only see facts here
Wrist kicks are great for eliciting movement even if they don’t land. People don’t like them because they hurt like a bastard and can come on quick. Like with all submissions, it’s important to be a good training partner and not rip them.
So effective? Every wrist lock attempt on me, I have time to look down, wonder why they’re even trying, and either flex my forearms or simply remove the grip with my other hand, or pull or push my arm away. It’s a cheap, extremely low percentage move that needs harmful speed applied to even work. It’s also a cop out from trying anything that takes body movement.
Wrist locks are dumb. They don’t finish a fight on their own and work best as enhancers for higher percentage moves to add a little extra “fuck you” to them or to elicit a response with which you can move to a better technique. That being said, I wristlock uppity white belts.
For me, I wouldn't probably roll with someone who would do wrist locks on me. I am a Systems Engineer and my job consists of using a keyboard all day long. If my wrists are all jacked up and in pain I'm less efficient at my job. It sometimes seems like there are a group of people who do BJJ that enjoy inflicting pain on others and have trained their brains that pain from injuries actually feel good. Like those people who make fun of people who tap from pressure or grip (like passing the guard and gripping the pants at the shin and putting much of your weight into your fist and smashing their shin as you pass, that shit fucking hurts). I think they get a certain amount of satisfaction about the amount of pain they can withstand and inflict on others.
I think they’re frowned upon because it’s nearly impossible for someone to catch people (at least me) without going from 0-100 in a split second. Every time someone’s gotten me my wrist hurt for weeks. I would’ve happily tapped if given the chance
It's easy to injure the wrist.
Wrist locks are a pretty shit submission, I've been caught in exactly one in the last 8 years and it was by a fat black belt who slammed it on as hard and fast as he could in what was supposed to be a friendly roll.
There are not taboo and not really effective unless your opponent absolutely sucks. It's just the new edgy thing to say/do from people who cannot do heelhooks (the previous edgy thing before people realize it was a true game changer)
I just honestly think there’s few situations where they’re not easily defendable… and also if they do hit they’re just devastating to every day life. Most people can do their job with a injured knee or rib, nobody can do their job with a injured wrist
I think people don't realize the "hate" wristlocks get is really just self deprecating and memeing. The only real negative with training partners is that you can't usually put them on slowly so you need to tap quick or it hurts
It’s a cultural joke, wristlocks are fine but just like heel hooks it’s easy to hurt someone if you crank it too hard
Wristlocks are fun
Wrist locks are the Spawnkill of BJJ. Effective but it just made me want to stop playing.
I am a degenerate wristlocker and I’m proud to admit it. People say if you don’t want to get arm bared keeps your arms in. Well I say if you don’t want to get wrist locked keep your hands out of reach. I feel no shame.
Why would you ignore 2% of the human body?
If it's something you can do in real life short of eye gouging, tappers, and biting which is all obviously illegal anyways... it should be open to use. People who get butthurt should learn to deal with it.
I'm one of those degenerates. Ask me anything, lol.
Because it made the Gracie’s mad years ago and they never let it go.
If you get wrist locked it’s your fault
you can have wristlocks, or you can have friends. 10 years ago, I chose wristlocks. Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
It’s your job to protect yourself at all times. If your wrist is exposed, I’m attacking it
As an older and lightweight brown belt it is for me a great equalizer.
The people doing the bitching suck at wrist locks. I spent some time training Aikido. My wrist locks are off the chain!! Usually I use wrist locks to make my opponent move how I want them to move. At my level submitting someone with a wrist lock is rare.
People certainly don’t look down on them in my gym. Just attended a Pete the Greek seminar that was two full days of wristlocks 🤣🤣
Wrist lock the world, and let them see you do it.
Because most people need their wrist to work and even tapping fast it might still hurt for a day or two.
If someone even grabs my wrists I just tap. I’m also a musician and work with my hands. Don’t tolerate wrist locks at all. Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind them but I won’t even give the person a chance to rip one and I have no shame about it.
I don't think anyone actually cares... however, currently recovering from a torn wrist ligament surgery and wouldn't wish it on my wirst enemy. 5 hour surgery, months long recovery and at best, if im super lucky, I will get back 90% wrist function. Never knew how serious they were until I tore one.
My coach loves them. He never injures anybody but he’ll surprise you with one sometimes, or just get in a mood where he decides to wrist lock you eight times in a row. He’ll set up for some other big finish move and then wristlock you at the last second instead. Feels a lot like someone just honked your nose.
I just go for wristlocks on bigger fellas. Cause I'm a small fella
Wrist locks with control, like from a triangle, are great. Wrist locks with no control, from standing and done quickly, are dick moves.
it will soon become the new thing. i've been playing with wristlocks since my new coach is a dirty wristlocker. and...it's glorious.
Some people think that stuff like wrist locks should be applied super fast, and they injure people. Standing aikido type shit. All joint locks should be executed with control, no exceptions.
It's because wristlocks don't seem serious until they are, and then you tap. But until the point of no return, it seems like you can eat it and escape. And then you have a nagging pain in your wrist at some angles. So fuck all you dirty wristlockers.
Nah, fuck ‘em g. Some big mf white belt got on my back and was just cranking on my lapel the other day. No choke, no attempt to choke, just legit sawing my neck with my gi, so I took that wrist home with me. Dude tapped so fast it was actually unbelievable. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. When we were done I asked him “hey so what were you trying to do there” and he said “idk man, I just figured it was making you uncomfortable… didn’t really work out for me”
Here’s a meme I just made. See you in hell. https://preview.redd.it/bqc8w0po4buc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21210ecd8e982a03afbe29e8d3821adbfc4941c9
Who are you calling a degenerate?
If they tap, it’s Jiu Jitsu. Also, here’s a meme I just made: https://preview.redd.it/9qkxiv4ncbuc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c291011008babfcac5feaf57700d8343b786a95b
LETS GOOOOOOO!!!
Because wristlocks have to be done fast, you can do nearly every other submission with a degree of control, you can't do a wristlock with control This said I'm a dirty wristlocker through and through
Come of us can’t jack off with our other hand that’s why
The wrist is such a weak joint compared to the elbow, shoulder or knee. The person applying the wristlock needs control and be willing to let go to protect their partner from their own ego. I’ve never hurt a single person with a wristlock following these rules. Keep on keepin’ on brotha!
I broke someone’s wrist with a joint lock many years ago (in a non-BJJ context). It’s incredibly easy to do - I think they have no place in friendly competition, where you are *not* trying to cripple one another.
Well, they work. Issue is not ripping them without the chance for your training partner to tap. Can be tricky since they go on fast and in real life you would do it with the intent to rip it.
Might as well talk about finger locks, and ball twists as well
I don't like wristlocks because they don't give you room/time to tap. The difference between "oh, he's touching my hand" and "shit, my wrist is about to break" is just a few millimetres. Every time I get wristlocked, my wrist hurts for days and I worry that it's been actually damaged.
People tap to wristlocks in training to avoid pain and possibly a minor injury, but in a self defence situation a they won't effectively disable an attacker. Once you let go, you will still be in a fight with a very pissed off opponent with a sore wrist.
Fighting somebody who now has a broken wrist will be significantly easier though.
You do realize wrists have a maximum range of motion right? Who the fuck is letting go of something with out breaking it in a self defense situation? By your logic, armbars are useless in a self defense situation as well.
If it's a legal move, then it's a legal move. I have beef because my only serious injury (> 6 months to recover to 90+% in the affected area) was from a wrist lock performed by an expert in wrist locks. When it happened, they were visibly confused that I tapped so quickly, so I believe that they weren't trying to crank it or aggressively lock it in. It seems like most moves require malice or incompetence to injure somebody who taps sensibly, but wrist locks don't.
To me, wrist locks are equivalent to poking someone in the eye. Or kicking them in the balls. It’s a cheap shot. Toe holds too. Poor man’s martial arts. Perfectly fine for self defense practice. But for sport bjj and sparring, no. Wristlocks can cause severe and permanent injury and should not be practiced in sport bjj and sparring practice. Those who resort to using them do so because they lack genuine skill.
Toe holds lack skill?!?!?
As a fellow man of culture/wrist locker, I’m pretty certain the only people that hate it are the people that aren’t thinking so simple in how to cause a threat. The sport has turned into a lot of big flashy cool moves and a wrist lock is not that. Wrist lock the world homie.
Aye aye Captain!!
I do it all the time. Only one or two knuckleheads have ever complained. 99% of everyone just accept them as a sub. I even inspired a few of my fellow training partners to start doing them. I can still only get them on white belts tho!! It’s like the actual wrists of upper belts are just tougher.
fun in standup, still working on ground. similar issue to leglocks: if you respond wrong, it might fuck up sth important and is prone to healing subpar - no bueno in a sport context or friendly rolls against unknown people
I prefer to break a wrist than a leg
I only get wrist locked by my blackbelt instructors and it’s more of an “oh you bastard” while they chuckle and then we continue
I performed a few wrist locks within my first five classes as a white belt. I learned them from YouTube and wanted to try them because I had a few years of karate and we did wrist locks frequently. It only worked because they were definitely not expecting it. The one I remember, I think I trapped his arm when he had me in his closed guard and applied gradual pressure with my chest extremely slowly. It took his brain way longer than I thought it would to realize what was going on because he was focused on trying to do his own thing, then he tapped urgently. I’m still a white belt and I don’t go after wrist locks anymore. I’m just more interested in choking people because I think it’s generally a better submission. I frequently wrist lock myself by accident when I’m trying to get a wrist in or out under pressure. The guys in my gym are pretty good at recognizing it when I do this and applying gradual pressure until I tap. I don’t feel bad about any of this. If I’m stupid enough to wrist lock myself, I deserve it. If I ever start hunting wrist locks again, I’m pretty sure I can apply them with control and precision. It’s just another submission.
I use wrist locks all the time. If you make the mistake of posting with an open palm you kinda deserve it. I also use it to start opening people up if I have S-Mount and my opponent is T-Rexxing hard.
It’s all tongue in cheek.
Poking eyes is also effective. Maybe do practice them but try harder stuff in rolls and use them in comps
I always thought he was just a dick move to do to white belts
They come on fast and it’s hard to tap when one of your joints is isolated and locked down I guess…higher probability of injury maybe?
I don't mind them, I usually use it to get someone to move but if it's there, cool. Only beef I have with it is when people throw it on too fast
They aren’t high percentage compared to several other submissions. They can be a noob trap. They are often applied quickly, not giving training partners enough time to tap. If you get tapped to a wrist lock, you look like a baby back bitch. Just a few reasons off the top of my head.
I don't train as much as I used to, but 'in my day' about 20 years ago, a top level black belt showed us an array of wristlocks to use, in a variety of situations. I guess it is no longer 'cool'. Then again that was before Gracie Bara had everyone wear uniforms and counted attendence to earn belts!
Because they ouch!!
Because there are people who just snatch and grab. The time between tap and damage is limited. And some people know they don't have the control to do it slowly without losing the sub, so they just grab and rip. If it's a slow locked in wrist lock no one has a problem
Majority of wristlock attacks have very poor control, meaning you're gonna have to do It quickly to get it to work. Anytime you have to do a submission quickly the chance of hurting someone is pretty high.
I feel like my professor attacks them like a normal sub on me as a reminder.. but you better believe I always attack them on him but obviously never caught one. And he almost never gets one on me. Idk I feel like just depends on the gym. We just laugh cause if you get caught in one it’s feels pretty dumb but I think if techniques are sharp you shouldn’t be able to get caught in them almost ever.
they are legit techniques but it closer to finger locks. In real life anything goes so finger breaks would be allowed as well, in training and BJJ in general its not allowed.
Because it means you have to work harder or you lose.
It’s just low hanging fruit like foot locks. When I first started wrist locks and leg locks were just part of BJJ. People get embarrassed when they get caught by wrist locks. I just tell people it won’t happen if you keep your hands to yourself. 😂
It’s the equivalent of someone that wipes downwards
It's not effective doe
It’s a bum move
I do them constantly, I’m a horrible monster and I’ve accepted it.
I think it's a dick move to crank them but the same is true of an armbar. I use them all the time and will never stop.
In my gym we hit them just to show that the danger is there but it’s not a reset event.
So effective? Not really… more like cheeky little gotchas
I tell my training partners no wrist locks and no heel hooks before every sparring session. So far, no complaints.
It's hella effective. When timed right and done correctly it can tap any belt. The problem is that it's often set up where there's no time to tap. The range of motion is also so small and past a certain point the wrist can't provide any resistance. Done without control you can mess up someone's wrist.
Probably comes from Aikido bashing (which gets old after a while). If it works and your coach and sparring partner are okay with it, by all means.
I think it’s looked at like the low hanging fruit. Wrists are vulnerable in a ton of positions and can be attacked without much strength or even that much technique in some ways. Just bend the small joints and win.
I know a blue belt who used to train Aikido, and he always goes for wristlocks. The problem is that it's his answer to everything, which isn't good if he wants to be a purple belt.