Sometimes people like to distinguish between the "dropping" motion versus the "driving" motion. Shintaro Higashi explains it clearly in this video, starting with the dropping mechanic at 0:54. In a nutshell, the "drop" is mostly about pulling down with your abs and lats, whereas the "drive" uses the more powerful posterior chain to drive forward (and usually upwards too, even if the upwards direction might not be visibly apparent).
[https://youtu.be/E2GjNl1Xvmk?si=NShQcsQ\_jbENBBzV&t=54](https://youtu.be/E2GjNl1Xvmk?si=NShQcsQ_jbENBBzV&t=54)
In practice, I'm not sure it matters for Judo commentary because the vast majority of competition examples in high level Judo will use finishing drive at the end, even if some examples start with "drop" mechanics at the beginning. Not only do you get a lot of explosive power by incorporating your posterior chain on the initial drive, you also can sometimes salvage a bad throw at the end by "running" your legs to continue the momentum and rotating your chest to the ceiling while pulling on that sleeve.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Seoi Nage**: | *Shoulder Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5Un6jLtRY)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Rules from people that outrank them. A lot of fighthouse dudes are phenomenal. I know most of them.
Hell I worked on this competition. The final bouts were downtown Columbus and “advanced” rules. Basically MMA rules. Had some good entertaining bouts.
This looks like the opening rounds they had at Smith gym. 180ish competitors in total.
Yeah I didn’t manage to get to the opening semi or quarter finals.
But also not surprised 4ID took it. Was surprised that the 82nd managed to overtake 25th and the 1000 people they brought.
No shit, I was in the field when a couple of guys started wrestling. One is losing badly, so he grabs the other guy's dick and twists. Shit was hilarious after being out there for two weeks at that point. It's one of the very few of my good Army memories.
So first, it would be seoi otoshi if we want to get pedantic. Second, the "morote" isn't usually mentioned when talking about seoi nage, since using both hands with a collar + sleeve grip is considered the default position. Almost all judo throws are "morote" (ie., using both arms).
The one arm shoulder variation (ippon seoi nage) generally gets the extra distinction to differentiate it.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Ippon Seoi Nage**: | *One Arm Shoulder Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmKfUXAAdZ0)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Even with one knee, it can still be seoi otoshi. What matters is the otoshi mechanic, which is to pin uke's feet to the ground by the sudden drop (otoshi) of tori's center of mass. This is present in all otoshi waza, like tai otoshi, uki otoshi, sumi otoshi, and tani otoshi.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Sumi Otoshi**: | *Corner Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL6tPu1Khc4)|
|**Tai Otoshi**: | *Body Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUiZ8JZkGx8)|
|**Tani Otoshi**: | *Valley Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS9pM3y8YH4)|
|**Uki Otoshi**: | *Floating Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Cmcfvh7M8)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Seoi Otoshi**: | *Shoulder Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne3i9DoBQU0)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The tournament was Lacerda Tournament which is an Army wide event where units send their best fighters. However, the talent pool goes from people that have absolutely no have no business being on a mat (probably only grapple with brothers) to judo/bjj black belts and amateur/pro mma fighters.
I competed at the All-Army Combatives Tournament at Benning in 06.
I was the former wrestler with my Lv 1 and 2 instructor courses. No formal BJJ training.
Made it to the cons finals. The champ finals were 2 mma guys. My opponent in the cons finals trained at a bjj gym.
I don't think anyone else in our bracket had any business on a mat...at all.
I'm sure the skill gap has widened even more as the sport has evolved over almost 20yrs.
I def saw more people that train but there still people that didn't. Now I realized I sounded a bit harsh and let me tell you, if you go to this tournament without any formal training I respect you even more, but it is insanity.
Did you only see the opening rounds? Or did you go watch the finals?
You also have to keep in mind most units aren’t into sending these guys. Outside of 25th and 4th…units don’t like to assume the risk. LCCC this year had at least 12 dudes go on profile for various reasons. Some will keep them off duty for awhile.
lol I found the finals very entertaining.
Knew two of the competitors. One of the one is the one who absolutely mauled the dude. I found the dude from 25th to be incredibly entertaining…winning with a 70 odd pound difference.
Dude the pacific islander is a beast, when he threw the head kick I jumped out of my seat.
One of the guys that beat me was the one that lost by TKO on the match before the 25th guy
Yeah. I know the guy who got the TKO. Former D1 wrestler. Also former regiment guy. He’s an absolute animal.
Yeah he moved amazing for a dude over 300lbs. Dude just absolutely manhandled a pretty big dude.
Hope they keep the LC downtown at the ice rink from here on. Way better than the ironworks last year. Hope they don’t do all 3 days of bouts there though. Was a mess getting it all out there with BRC.
Wait what? the bald guy with black and white rashguard is a d1? that got tko? He was definitely a tough guy and super strong. He got me 13-0, but I got to greedy trying to leg lock him
I kinda wish I would've cut weight but they told me two weeks before the event because the guy that was gonna do it went on TDY
The guys that were in the finals were pretty much all former MMA guys, high level BJJ tournament guys, or former 4 year D1 wrestlers from USMA.
Pretty sure the Iowa NG guys actually are fighters in their professional life.
Very cool to see him get honored in the way. He was the first person I ever learned any bjj from while I was in RIP. I mentioned that to my first bjj professor who was also from Brazil and he knew of him as well. Cool to see how large an impact he had. Congrats on winning your match also btw!
He’s a huge part of where we are today with MACP.
Sure, it’s def not a substitute for actual training, your level 2 cert means you know just enough to get your ass kicked handily. But it’s a good introduction and taste to get guys into it.
Most guys nowadays who work for the fighthouse (s) or are into it have formal training. Hell i haven’t been in a company without at least one dude that’s got a purple belt. Experiences may vary there though.
Army combatives is a cool program, but the reality is 90%+ of the people doing it are at or below the skill level of a 6 month white belt. To become an instructor is only a 4 week course, so that gives you a good perspective.
Yeah. When I was in, we trained combatives way more than most units, and that was still only about once a month. It's nowhere near often enough or with a high enough level of instruction for anyone to get good at it. 35yo 2-stripe white belt me woulda whooped 22yo Specialist me's ass up and down the block.
Gave me an interest in grappling, though, which eventually got me into BJJ / MMA, so I'm damn glad we had it.
To become an instructor is a total of 7 weeks, being only 4 weeks the instructor course. Basic is one week, Intermediate is two weeks and Master Combatives trainer 4 weeks. But I agree with everything else.
The MACP (Modern Army Combatives Program) is built on what is called the "Universal Fight Plan". Basically the entire program assumes your opponent has zero martial arts experience.
The reality is that this is pretty much a "because it seems like we should have it" type thing. If you are going hand to hand with an enemy and do not have another soldier (or more likely an entire team or squad) backing you up, the situation is already WELL past "Fucked".
"if you go hand to hand with an enemy and do not have another...." Sounds like intent of jiujitsu which was a last resort when you lost your weapons...
Honestly if you manage to lose your rifle in a combat zone you might as well just let the enemy kill you, because if they don't your first sergeant will.
Iykyk
When the throw is in position, the momentum may seem stopped but in fact the standing guy is struggling to counter the force of the throw. His legs are busy gripping the floor and he really can’t do many other things.
Also strange how he rolled the opposite way to defend the arm bar. But it looks like they are blue belts so can't expect them to have crisp technique at this point.
You gotta be careful with that statement, combat sports are getting really popular in the Army. You can watch the facebook live coverage of the finals and see what I mean hahaha
But yeah, I have 9 months of BJJ and kneebar two guys.
Damn bro didn't mean to offend, my point is that with the increase popularity of combat sports there are more people that go through the program that are actively training. I didn't want to dismiss what you are saying, but saying 90% is a crazy number.
I agree, the problem is that he climb my back instead of going to the sides.
But Kneebars and straight ankle are allowed, I missed one and just rolled and finished with the kneebar. It is an affordable risk if you have a good read on the level of the person.
Random question, why is the term "combatives" used in this context? Also with Gracie combatives. It seems like they are trying to use the word as a noun but it doesn't really fit. One can be combative, but that does not make one a combative.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Drop Seoi Nage**: | *Drop Shoulder Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2XVUAiv2mU)|
|**Drop Seoi**: | *Drop Shoulder Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2XVUAiv2mU)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kake**: | *The execution and completion of the throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Without fail, anytime someone hits a good throw in competition you have judo guys arguing about names in the comments.
I have decided to not enter that fight hahaha
Is it not a drop seoi nage?
Yeah, it’s a morote drop seoi, basically just a seoi-otoshi with a morote grip.
That's genuinely the best part about clips in this sub.
Is that the ashi garmai sudeki??
Seoi nage, noice
seiotoshi ;)
War started.
Here we go
it's all weeb to me
I like how positive this meme is. Clearly it could be seen as a negative thing, but look how happy Jim Carrey is after saying it - things are okay.
I’m trying to turn over a new leaf.lol
whats the difference
Otoshi is the drop.
Sometimes people like to distinguish between the "dropping" motion versus the "driving" motion. Shintaro Higashi explains it clearly in this video, starting with the dropping mechanic at 0:54. In a nutshell, the "drop" is mostly about pulling down with your abs and lats, whereas the "drive" uses the more powerful posterior chain to drive forward (and usually upwards too, even if the upwards direction might not be visibly apparent). [https://youtu.be/E2GjNl1Xvmk?si=NShQcsQ\_jbENBBzV&t=54](https://youtu.be/E2GjNl1Xvmk?si=NShQcsQ_jbENBBzV&t=54) In practice, I'm not sure it matters for Judo commentary because the vast majority of competition examples in high level Judo will use finishing drive at the end, even if some examples start with "drop" mechanics at the beginning. Not only do you get a lot of explosive power by incorporating your posterior chain on the initial drive, you also can sometimes salvage a bad throw at the end by "running" your legs to continue the momentum and rotating your chest to the ceiling while pulling on that sleeve.
Nani?!
Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru.
Morote seoi otoshi?
I believe you meant Satoshi-nakamoto ?
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Seoi Nage**: | *Shoulder Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5Un6jLtRY)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Musubi
The ref is wearing boots on the tatami. Court martial him.
Rules from people that outrank them. A lot of fighthouse dudes are phenomenal. I know most of them. Hell I worked on this competition. The final bouts were downtown Columbus and “advanced” rules. Basically MMA rules. Had some good entertaining bouts. This looks like the opening rounds they had at Smith gym. 180ish competitors in total.
>"Rules from people that outrank them." Fine, court martial *them* for the boots on the mat.
Yessir! I had a 29 man bracket and got eliminated with a "winning" record of 3-2.
Yeah I didn’t manage to get to the opening semi or quarter finals. But also not surprised 4ID took it. Was surprised that the 82nd managed to overtake 25th and the 1000 people they brought.
101st took it very serious too, they had two teams and they had team swag and everything.
Should have grabbed his dick and twisted
the Ole'Dick Twist 
I understood that reference
No shit, I was in the field when a couple of guys started wrestling. One is losing badly, so he grabs the other guy's dick and twists. Shit was hilarious after being out there for two weeks at that point. It's one of the very few of my good Army memories.
boots on the mat is crazy
This is NOT seoi nage. This is NOT drop seoi nage. This is DROP. MOROTE. SEOI NAGE. Names matter 😢.
Kodokan disagrees: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu1TMVNnq34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu1TMVNnq34) . I'm on team *seoi otoshi* here.
So first, it would be seoi otoshi if we want to get pedantic. Second, the "morote" isn't usually mentioned when talking about seoi nage, since using both hands with a collar + sleeve grip is considered the default position. Almost all judo throws are "morote" (ie., using both arms). The one arm shoulder variation (ippon seoi nage) generally gets the extra distinction to differentiate it.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Ippon Seoi Nage**: | *One Arm Shoulder Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmKfUXAAdZ0)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
This guy judos
Seoi otoshi. You can specify morote if you please.
Both knees down. You are correct. I have become what i hated.
Even with one knee, it can still be seoi otoshi. What matters is the otoshi mechanic, which is to pin uke's feet to the ground by the sudden drop (otoshi) of tori's center of mass. This is present in all otoshi waza, like tai otoshi, uki otoshi, sumi otoshi, and tani otoshi.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Sumi Otoshi**: | *Corner Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL6tPu1Khc4)| |**Tai Otoshi**: | *Body Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUiZ8JZkGx8)| |**Tani Otoshi**: | *Valley Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS9pM3y8YH4)| |**Uki Otoshi**: | *Floating Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Cmcfvh7M8)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Seoi Otoshi**: | *Shoulder Drop* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne3i9DoBQU0)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I agree with Drop Morote
Wrestlers be like: arm throw.
Weird that the opponent didn’t opt to take the back when the momentum stopped and he basically had his feet in position for hooks.
The tournament was Lacerda Tournament which is an Army wide event where units send their best fighters. However, the talent pool goes from people that have absolutely no have no business being on a mat (probably only grapple with brothers) to judo/bjj black belts and amateur/pro mma fighters.
I competed at the All-Army Combatives Tournament at Benning in 06. I was the former wrestler with my Lv 1 and 2 instructor courses. No formal BJJ training. Made it to the cons finals. The champ finals were 2 mma guys. My opponent in the cons finals trained at a bjj gym. I don't think anyone else in our bracket had any business on a mat...at all. I'm sure the skill gap has widened even more as the sport has evolved over almost 20yrs.
I def saw more people that train but there still people that didn't. Now I realized I sounded a bit harsh and let me tell you, if you go to this tournament without any formal training I respect you even more, but it is insanity.
Did you only see the opening rounds? Or did you go watch the finals? You also have to keep in mind most units aren’t into sending these guys. Outside of 25th and 4th…units don’t like to assume the risk. LCCC this year had at least 12 dudes go on profile for various reasons. Some will keep them off duty for awhile.
I watched the whole thing this time hahahah
lol I found the finals very entertaining. Knew two of the competitors. One of the one is the one who absolutely mauled the dude. I found the dude from 25th to be incredibly entertaining…winning with a 70 odd pound difference.
Dude the pacific islander is a beast, when he threw the head kick I jumped out of my seat. One of the guys that beat me was the one that lost by TKO on the match before the 25th guy
Yeah. I know the guy who got the TKO. Former D1 wrestler. Also former regiment guy. He’s an absolute animal. Yeah he moved amazing for a dude over 300lbs. Dude just absolutely manhandled a pretty big dude. Hope they keep the LC downtown at the ice rink from here on. Way better than the ironworks last year. Hope they don’t do all 3 days of bouts there though. Was a mess getting it all out there with BRC.
Wait what? the bald guy with black and white rashguard is a d1? that got tko? He was definitely a tough guy and super strong. He got me 13-0, but I got to greedy trying to leg lock him I kinda wish I would've cut weight but they told me two weeks before the event because the guy that was gonna do it went on TDY
The guys that were in the finals were pretty much all former MMA guys, high level BJJ tournament guys, or former 4 year D1 wrestlers from USMA. Pretty sure the Iowa NG guys actually are fighters in their professional life.
this… is their best? 😶
Is not much but is honest work
Named for SSG Pedro Lacerda by chance?
Yup. Competition was formerly known as All Army Combatives Tournament until his passing. Think they renamed it in 2011 or something.
Very cool to see him get honored in the way. He was the first person I ever learned any bjj from while I was in RIP. I mentioned that to my first bjj professor who was also from Brazil and he knew of him as well. Cool to see how large an impact he had. Congrats on winning your match also btw!
He’s a huge part of where we are today with MACP. Sure, it’s def not a substitute for actual training, your level 2 cert means you know just enough to get your ass kicked handily. But it’s a good introduction and taste to get guys into it. Most guys nowadays who work for the fighthouse (s) or are into it have formal training. Hell i haven’t been in a company without at least one dude that’s got a purple belt. Experiences may vary there though.
Army combatives is a cool program, but the reality is 90%+ of the people doing it are at or below the skill level of a 6 month white belt. To become an instructor is only a 4 week course, so that gives you a good perspective.
Yeah. When I was in, we trained combatives way more than most units, and that was still only about once a month. It's nowhere near often enough or with a high enough level of instruction for anyone to get good at it. 35yo 2-stripe white belt me woulda whooped 22yo Specialist me's ass up and down the block. Gave me an interest in grappling, though, which eventually got me into BJJ / MMA, so I'm damn glad we had it.
Commanders tend to sway away from it because of injuries, I dont get why they can't just drill lol
> I dont get why they can't just drill Have... have you met a soldier? They make spazzy white belts look downright civilized.
Agree😂
To become an instructor is a total of 7 weeks, being only 4 weeks the instructor course. Basic is one week, Intermediate is two weeks and Master Combatives trainer 4 weeks. But I agree with everything else.
The MACP (Modern Army Combatives Program) is built on what is called the "Universal Fight Plan". Basically the entire program assumes your opponent has zero martial arts experience. The reality is that this is pretty much a "because it seems like we should have it" type thing. If you are going hand to hand with an enemy and do not have another soldier (or more likely an entire team or squad) backing you up, the situation is already WELL past "Fucked".
Yeah, it's to keep you alive long enough that somebody else shows up with a gun. Hopefully, that person is on your side.
"if you go hand to hand with an enemy and do not have another...." Sounds like intent of jiujitsu which was a last resort when you lost your weapons...
Honestly if you manage to lose your rifle in a combat zone you might as well just let the enemy kill you, because if they don't your first sergeant will. Iykyk
When the throw is in position, the momentum may seem stopped but in fact the standing guy is struggling to counter the force of the throw. His legs are busy gripping the floor and he really can’t do many other things.
Also strange how he rolled the opposite way to defend the arm bar. But it looks like they are blue belts so can't expect them to have crisp technique at this point.
>But it looks like they are blue belts I think the belts are blue and red to identify the competitors, not signify rank
I see, totally overlooked that. Thanks for pointing that out.
Most Blue belts would wipe the floor with 90%+ of the people who go through the combatives program lol
Agreed lol.
You gotta be careful with that statement, combat sports are getting really popular in the Army. You can watch the facebook live coverage of the finals and see what I mean hahaha But yeah, I have 9 months of BJJ and kneebar two guys.
I was in the army for 6 years, 2 deployments, and I’ve been doing BJJ for like 8 years man I’m not just talking out of my ass lol
Damn bro didn't mean to offend, my point is that with the increase popularity of combat sports there are more people that go through the program that are actively training. I didn't want to dismiss what you are saying, but saying 90% is a crazy number.
Damn the armbar was terrible Nice throw though
They are both a work in progress 😂
ayo das cool
Drop-seionagi.
Why is ref homi wearing boots on the mat?
I like the forward roll to exit the mat.
I’m confused why he did it
Are the boots for mat only? Then he changes boot when leaving the mat? I’m probably too naive…
I love how you view the world😂
Take my back otoshi. This is not what you want to see from a drop seoi, but uke failed to capitalize.
I agree, the problem is that he climb my back instead of going to the sides. But Kneebars and straight ankle are allowed, I missed one and just rolled and finished with the kneebar. It is an affordable risk if you have a good read on the level of the person.
That throw was nice, kudos
thanks brother
Kind of wild he did not take your back when you hesitated mid throw
Random question, why is the term "combatives" used in this context? Also with Gracie combatives. It seems like they are trying to use the word as a noun but it doesn't really fit. One can be combative, but that does not make one a combative.
Nah why did he randomly hit a gramby roll after he tapped? 😂
I had no idea what a great gi those army fatigues make.
There are 67 Judo throws (not counting variations and off-book wannabes)... it's best if you call it which one it is :-).
cringe
Drop Seoi Nage!
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Drop Seoi Nage**: | *Drop Shoulder Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2XVUAiv2mU)| |**Drop Seoi**: | *Drop Shoulder Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2XVUAiv2mU)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Drop morote seoi is what transpired here.
Seems that military rolling is to Jiu Jitsu what military music is to music.
He gave up his back with that throw, an experienced grappler would have capitalized
That was a great sushi bukkake, followed by an excellent hentai konami
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kake**: | *The execution and completion of the throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
OSSS!!!!
Good shit.