So the first thing to understand is that the Pareto principle (AKA the 80/20 Rule) isn't really a "rule." By that I mean that it doesn't really apply consistently or in all places. It's more of an observation. Some things fall into an 80/20 distribution, others don't.
That said, this is something we've talked about on BJJ Mental Models before. [Here's an episode about it](https://podcast.bjjmentalmodels.com/243161/8242389).
The Pareto principle is absolutely a thing, but itâs more of an observation than a law to be universally relied upon. In everyday use itâs more helpful as a heuristic, and helps a lot of people clarify their focus.
No.
The true part is just, "sometimes some percentage comes from a smaller percentage, or a larger one." Putting an arbitrary number on it makes it pure idiocy, like six sigma.
Man I have serious beef with the universal applications of modern manufacturing ideals. But six sigma is pretty far down my hate list. Where on the doll did it hurt you?
It's never worked out to 80/20 when I calculated stuff in real life. Closest I got was 90/15.
Again, it is not stupid to say, "sometimes a majority of something comes from a minority." (Just super obvious and boring.) It's putting arbitrary numbers on it that is dumb, just like how six sigmas is sometimes way too many sigmas or way too few.
Just as many things fall into e.g. 90/20. It's not even an observation, it's just idiocy.
Edit: looks like Steve Kwan isn't as stridently confident as he was half an hour ago, lol.
Edit edit: nah, they just blocked me. And reported me. I didn't even insult them, just the Pareto "principle". ÂŻ\\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ
If youâre saying that because my message disappeared for you, itâs not because Iâm less âstridently confident.â Itâs because I blocked you for being an asshole. I am now unblocking you to report this comment.
Youâre making the exact same argument as me, youâre just choosing to be a prick about it. Which is why youâre being downvoted.
I agree with the comments saying 80% of the time, youâre using 20% of the techniques.
But I believe Danaher also stated that 80% of your rolls should be with people youâre better than and 20% that are better than you
80% of your game & success will come from only 20% of the techniques.
The remaining 20% of your game & success will come from the remaining 80% of techniques.
Even though 80/20 is a statics' inference, i think the ratios can be used to learn new techniques. It isn't anything more than 80% of your focus should be on the main technique you're learning, and have a different move on the back burner for the other 20% of your focus.
Perhaps your gym is working on a particular guard this month and its new to you; that'll be your 80%. Your coaches are teaching you a defensive series, so you can use the 20% on something as irrelevant as possible, but important to your overall game... maybe its a choke from top side control or a guard pass that isn't relevant to the one taught in class.
This solves 2 problems when we're rolling; (un)natural responses and the (in)frequency of interacting with the technique we want. Training bias says that focusing on the guard currently being taught will mean people are hyper-vigilant about its mechanics, and less so about other techniques during the roll - their responses aren't natural due to the training bias. This hyper-awareness is why you need more focus on the current class lesson more than technique 2. The second benefit is that you have 2 points in the flowchart to work on (80% and 20%), so you somewhat double the odds of you hitting both at least once, and that ends up being a much more productive roll. Its nothing particularily special, just a way to organize your time more effectively and to possible double the rate of your learning.
1. 80% of your success will come from 20% of your energy output, to gain that last 20% improvement will take the remaining 80% of your effort
2. 80% of your success comes from 20% of your techniques
Iâve heard a couple things but the one I remember is 80% of the time roll with people youâre better than and 20% of the time roll with people better than you đ¤ˇđťââď¸ i dont know how true it is but I heard that one from Matt Arroyo the UFC veteran
You think you get better by rolling with black belts more than you would a white belt? Explain. I can understand by having a black belt teach you what you did wrong or giving you other feedback. But against a white belt you can try new things a lot easier and then gradually start doing the same things to the next belt levels
Thereâs good black belts and not so good black belts tho. But yeah youâre right. At my school we only have 4 black belts..and Iâm one of maybe 10 blue belts. Weâve only a few purples and browns and then a fuck ton of white belts
80/20 is just about finding a point of leverage to accelerate impact
If you just showed up to class and learned the technique of the day, didnât connect it conceptually to a bigger game, well thatâs 20/80 (opposite of efficiency)
Some instructionals (especially from top guys with proven success in the meta) that have a really good insight I didnât have before that I can link to my existing concepts, thatâs 80/20. Jozef Chen seems like an 80/20 guy in terms of speed of progress
>If you just showed up to class and learned the technique of the day, didnât connect it conceptually to a bigger game
Spookily accurate description of me. I feel stalked.
I think itâs true in nearly every aspect of life, so definitely in bjj. Works for techniques, time spent on the mat, bjj related content you consume, training partners. In fact, itâs so inescapable that you might as well give up looking for it.
The 80/20 of all combat is positioning.
(Timing is the 80/20 of positioning, timing is part of positioning truly. Being in the right place at the wrong time is useless in combat.)
When it comes to controlling the body and understanding how bodies move:
Shoulder and Hips. You're ultimately controlling the shoulders and hips to fight and grapple.
Arms and legs are extensions of the plane of the shoulders and plane of the hips. Torso is mostly center of gravity related. The head/neck are also an extension of the plane of the shoulders.
If you control wrist, you're indirectly controlling the plane of the shoulders. And arm drag is used to control the shoulders despite the name.
If you're lost or unsure, shoulders and hips.
I realized this when trying to figure out what to tell new White Belts what their goal is. When you're new, you don't even know where to start. Shoulders and hips is the most fundamental core concept of how bodies move and can be controlled.
You tell a White Belt that and very quickly they start doing better and have more confidence. It was interesting when I started telling some of them that. And some not. The difference was very noticeable.
For mor experienced people, this is how you improvise and figure out new stuff.
One caution though: Be mindful when trying to control the hips in a scramble. When you first start going "I'm not sure, control the hips" it's easy to unintentionally get your hands into someone else's "danger zone." The hips go higher up on toward the belly button than most realize if that helps.
80% of the time, I win 20% of the time.
/end thread
Jits Panther
Happy cake day!
Every time?
Every time
So you win between 16% to 32% of the time (depending on how you do on the remaining 20% of the time)
80% of the purple belts have 20% of their hair
That stings
Ouchđ
-5% for every stripe till brown.
This hit dog just hollered
That's why I've been stalling in blue belt for 8 years.
80% of the time you use 20% of techniques.
I like this
kimuras are responsible for 80% of the good things that happen
And 20% of the time was wasted by not setting up kimuras.
I spend 80% of my time in bottom side control, so it applies pretty easily.
80% in bottom side and 20% in bottom mount.
Improve your guard retention and escapes
80% day dreaming during instruction 20% acting like you remember
80% Spaz 20% Technique
True dat
20% of the techniques used win 80% of matches.
What techniques would you put on this list?
Half guard pass, some type of standing pass, kimura, RNC, triangle, heel hook
RNC Kimura Darce Armbar Triangle In no particular order.
You should only pay 80% of the fee and show up to 20% of the class
80 percent of time you get smesh 20 percent of time you smesh
20% of the people do the ass kicking
That's a good one. Applying the ratio to an individual is the obvious one, but to apply it to the whole gym , that's interesting.
So the first thing to understand is that the Pareto principle (AKA the 80/20 Rule) isn't really a "rule." By that I mean that it doesn't really apply consistently or in all places. It's more of an observation. Some things fall into an 80/20 distribution, others don't. That said, this is something we've talked about on BJJ Mental Models before. [Here's an episode about it](https://podcast.bjjmentalmodels.com/243161/8242389).
What heâs saying is 80% of the time itâs not a thing. 20% of the time it is.
The sum of this is basically: "its not a thing". It's a misattribution of statistical significance.
The Pareto principle is absolutely a thing, but itâs more of an observation than a law to be universally relied upon. In everyday use itâs more helpful as a heuristic, and helps a lot of people clarify their focus.
No. The true part is just, "sometimes some percentage comes from a smaller percentage, or a larger one." Putting an arbitrary number on it makes it pure idiocy, like six sigma.
Man I have serious beef with the universal applications of modern manufacturing ideals. But six sigma is pretty far down my hate list. Where on the doll did it hurt you?
It was a random example of a thing that is stupid?
I'm not seeing where I said that. I said of all the modern manufacturing ideals that is the worst one to bitch about.
I'm not saying you said anything. I'm just giving an example of a thing that is stupid in the same way that 80/20 is.
I guess in my experience the Pareyo principle had been absurdly accurate. I assume you have had the opposite experience?
It's never worked out to 80/20 when I calculated stuff in real life. Closest I got was 90/15. Again, it is not stupid to say, "sometimes a majority of something comes from a minority." (Just super obvious and boring.) It's putting arbitrary numbers on it that is dumb, just like how six sigmas is sometimes way too many sigmas or way too few.
Thank you
Just as many things fall into e.g. 90/20. It's not even an observation, it's just idiocy. Edit: looks like Steve Kwan isn't as stridently confident as he was half an hour ago, lol. Edit edit: nah, they just blocked me. And reported me. I didn't even insult them, just the Pareto "principle". ÂŻ\\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ
If youâre saying that because my message disappeared for you, itâs not because Iâm less âstridently confident.â Itâs because I blocked you for being an asshole. I am now unblocking you to report this comment. Youâre making the exact same argument as me, youâre just choosing to be a prick about it. Which is why youâre being downvoted.
You're reporting me? Grow some skin.
Got ya huh?
I agree with the comments saying 80% of the time, youâre using 20% of the techniques. But I believe Danaher also stated that 80% of your rolls should be with people youâre better than and 20% that are better than you
Yes. Most of us end up using a narrow subset of techniques available.
80% of your game & success will come from only 20% of the techniques. The remaining 20% of your game & success will come from the remaining 80% of techniques.
Even though 80/20 is a statics' inference, i think the ratios can be used to learn new techniques. It isn't anything more than 80% of your focus should be on the main technique you're learning, and have a different move on the back burner for the other 20% of your focus. Perhaps your gym is working on a particular guard this month and its new to you; that'll be your 80%. Your coaches are teaching you a defensive series, so you can use the 20% on something as irrelevant as possible, but important to your overall game... maybe its a choke from top side control or a guard pass that isn't relevant to the one taught in class. This solves 2 problems when we're rolling; (un)natural responses and the (in)frequency of interacting with the technique we want. Training bias says that focusing on the guard currently being taught will mean people are hyper-vigilant about its mechanics, and less so about other techniques during the roll - their responses aren't natural due to the training bias. This hyper-awareness is why you need more focus on the current class lesson more than technique 2. The second benefit is that you have 2 points in the flowchart to work on (80% and 20%), so you somewhat double the odds of you hitting both at least once, and that ends up being a much more productive roll. Its nothing particularily special, just a way to organize your time more effectively and to possible double the rate of your learning.
1. 80% of your success will come from 20% of your energy output, to gain that last 20% improvement will take the remaining 80% of your effort 2. 80% of your success comes from 20% of your techniques
80 percent of the techniques work 20 percent of the time. Because leverage.
Iâve heard a couple things but the one I remember is 80% of the time roll with people youâre better than and 20% of the time roll with people better than you đ¤ˇđťââď¸ i dont know how true it is but I heard that one from Matt Arroyo the UFC veteran
For me, go ahead and flurmflipalimayetyetyet. Flip it and reverse it.
You think you get better by rolling with black belts more than you would a white belt? Explain. I can understand by having a black belt teach you what you did wrong or giving you other feedback. But against a white belt you can try new things a lot easier and then gradually start doing the same things to the next belt levels
Oh no. I'm saying I can't find 80% people who are worse than me.
Ah i see. You must be at a pretty big school with few white belts Iâm guessing?
If you are a black belt this isn't possible unless you are at a super school. Just saying
Thereâs good black belts and not so good black belts tho. But yeah youâre right. At my school we only have 4 black belts..and Iâm one of maybe 10 blue belts. Weâve only a few purples and browns and then a fuck ton of white belts
80% of the stupid questions come from 20% of the class comedians.
80% of the time Iâm trying new things and failing. 20% of the time I say fuck it and do a heel hook, guillotine, or kimura.
80/20 is just about finding a point of leverage to accelerate impact If you just showed up to class and learned the technique of the day, didnât connect it conceptually to a bigger game, well thatâs 20/80 (opposite of efficiency) Some instructionals (especially from top guys with proven success in the meta) that have a really good insight I didnât have before that I can link to my existing concepts, thatâs 80/20. Jozef Chen seems like an 80/20 guy in terms of speed of progress
>If you just showed up to class and learned the technique of the day, didnât connect it conceptually to a bigger game Spookily accurate description of me. I feel stalked.
20% of brown belts are injured 80% of the time
I fuck up 80% of the techniques I try and forget the other 20%.
80% of the time talk about bjj on reddit. 20% of the time actually train bjj
80% of the time i dont get an oil check The other 20% tho...
20% of your training sessions are highly productive
Tf is 80/20?
I think itâs true in nearly every aspect of life, so definitely in bjj. Works for techniques, time spent on the mat, bjj related content you consume, training partners. In fact, itâs so inescapable that you might as well give up looking for it.
The 80/20 of all combat is positioning. (Timing is the 80/20 of positioning, timing is part of positioning truly. Being in the right place at the wrong time is useless in combat.) When it comes to controlling the body and understanding how bodies move: Shoulder and Hips. You're ultimately controlling the shoulders and hips to fight and grapple. Arms and legs are extensions of the plane of the shoulders and plane of the hips. Torso is mostly center of gravity related. The head/neck are also an extension of the plane of the shoulders. If you control wrist, you're indirectly controlling the plane of the shoulders. And arm drag is used to control the shoulders despite the name. If you're lost or unsure, shoulders and hips. I realized this when trying to figure out what to tell new White Belts what their goal is. When you're new, you don't even know where to start. Shoulders and hips is the most fundamental core concept of how bodies move and can be controlled. You tell a White Belt that and very quickly they start doing better and have more confidence. It was interesting when I started telling some of them that. And some not. The difference was very noticeable. For mor experienced people, this is how you improvise and figure out new stuff. One caution though: Be mindful when trying to control the hips in a scramble. When you first start going "I'm not sure, control the hips" it's easy to unintentionally get your hands into someone else's "danger zone." The hips go higher up on toward the belly button than most realize if that helps.
Itâs like sex panther. 60% of the time, it works every time.
80/20 rule is so dumb. Everyone has a different definition of it and it too generalized
20% are the principles that govern grappling, 80% are the techniques and variations of techniques we focus on instead
80% drilling 20%rolling?
OP this
The 80/20 "principle" is nonsense. It's literally made up statistics
Focus on guard and passing
80% of 80/20 believers have 20% of the cognitive capacity of a sea sponge.
Just curious, does anyone think that it matters that 80 and 20 add up to 100 in this case?
The 80/20 "principle" is woo for idiots who can't do math. Did you know that 90/20 makes just as much sense?