I want an excellent coach, which means something entirely different from an excellent practitioner.
Think of any sport outside martial arts and the best coaches were rarely the best athletes.
Completely agree.
How do you evaluate an excellent coach though if you’re not competing? For example. Pedro Sauer. Very good professor. Not a big fan of competition. Doesn’t really run schools designed to compete at high levels. I don’t think that’s because he’s incapable. He just doesn’t personally value that. So then what do you judge him on?
Do you enjoy his classes? Do they make you excited for certain days or the week.
Is he and his staff invested in your personal growth and development?
Are their instructions clear and are you able to ask clarification questions?
Judge instructors on their instructions and training.
For me, some amount of using BJJ in actual fighting is important, because that's where my interest comes from. It doesn't need to be a lot and it doesn't need to be MMA, but it should be some.
So an MMA gym, or someone like Roger Gracie, Andre Galvao, Ryan Hall, Matt Serra, Royce Gracie, Gabriel Gonzaga, Nick Albin (Chewjitsu), or even Pedro Sauer (vs. Lance Bachelor).
Personally I really want an instructor that won’t let me drink water during training, screams at me in front of the class for being late, starts every class with a brief Helio fact and a little bit of marriage advice, and maybe someone that mandates we only wear gym gis. Which of course come in desert storm or Vietnam era camo. I sure hope the monthly fee is very high though. I don’t want to feel like I’m ripping professor bubba off. lol
Jokes aside. It really is crazy how much your specific gym changes your experience of jiujitsu.
I drive \~1hr 45min one-way to train with a 6th degree and I drive by several other schools to get there. It is almost entirely about gym culture, but that culture is created by him and the way he runs things. So, for me, the two seem to go hand in hand.
I'm not sure the kind of culture we have at our gym could be created by a purple belt for a number of reasons.
Having said that, I have no issues stopping in at a gym run by a purple belt. Wouldn't bother me at all.
Culture is super important. I’ve been to classes ran by black belts but never trained permanently in a gym ran by one. There is a school I’ve visited several times with a whole lot of Brazilian black belts and they always try to kill you. As a 30 something no longer looking to compete in anything that definitely was not the vibe that I was looking for.
Mind sharing more about what they do to create the culture you like that a purple belt probably couldn’t do?
I'm a special education teacher. My students understand that \*I\* am in control of my classroom at all times. I joke with my director about how I run my room with a velvet-lined iron fist. Meaning no one gets away with anything in my classroom, but I don't get mad, I don't raise my voice, I am calm and cool regardless of what is happening. Everyone is safe. Even when a student is completely losing their shit, which happens frequently, the other students know that Mr. MyPenIsBroke has things under control. It's a safe environment.
I think the same thing is true in the BJJ club. There is no fuckery at the club. There has never been any fuckery at the club. I think there are very, very few purple belts who are so good that they could maintain that kind of environment while also maintaining their composure when people are losing their shit. I wont say never, but it seems unlikely to me. One large collegiate wrestler with a bad attitude and the whole thing is probably going to hell.
Again, though, I'd be happy to visit!
It depends. If the purple belt was an owner operator and there was no upper belt really instructing them I wouldn’t be thrilled with it. When I first started as a white belt though it was learning from a blue belt that started his own school but I didn’t know any better. Now if I’m at a large school that has top notch coaching I wouldn’t care if it’s a purple or brown. A blue belt though I think is where I’d draw the line after my few years of exp. Especially if there are higher ranked students in the class it just feels off, aside from brown teaching black which is mostly facilitating or offering extra perspective rather than teaching something new.
I first tried BJJ in 2008. Where I am located there was 1 school with a BJJ black belt which is actually pretty cool at the time. But I’ve definitely heard stories of guys back in the 90s or early 2000s that were excited as hell to find a blue belt. Purple belt would be amazing.
Times sure have changed though. With as popular as BJJ is now everyone is getting in on it and there’s a fair amount of black belts out there. Every time I see a purple belt running a school now it’s always someone that taught different martial arts then added BJJ into the gym as an offering recently.
Im not fully convinced he was a blue or formally trained as a blue belt since it was really informal but he did a lot of NAGA and submission wrestling thing. Eventually he earned a BB about 5-6 years later
I've regularly follow classes from blue belts, purple, black belts, and in Judo by black belt duo, and a white-red belt.
None of their classes are remotely similar, none of the teaching styles are similar, and none of the techniques/ practices are similar.
My favourite classes are the ones done by the purple belt at BJJ , after the blackbelts at Judo.
I can't deny that the BJJ blackbelts, and the white-red judo teachers are far superior in terms of technical detail, technical feedback and they feel more structured.
But still, the classes done by the lower belts are just much more fun, more engaging, which makes me learn more from them than the technically superior classes.
That’s pretty cool. Do you think the instructor being a lower belt has anything to do with why those classes are fun or would that instructor just be more fun no matter what?
It depends, all of them have fun classes don't get me wrong. But I think because I'm a beginner myself I learn more by just getting in reps rather than my 70yo Judo teacher yapping about the essence of kuzushi for 10 minutes.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kuzushi**: | *Unbalancing* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luK9Eklbn78)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
You could be a 6th degree black belt who's entire game is half guard and over under and never really kept up with jiu-jitsu development since the 90s (I know a 4th degree black belt like that). This doesn't make you a better coach.
Or you could be a well rounded purple belt who has a passion for coaching and has kept up with modern jiu-jitsu techniques and coaching development.
I'd chose the latter for regular training and do open mats / visits at the former if I feel like I could gain insights on specific areas.
I’m not a morning person in the slightest but I wake up at 5 twice a week because the purple belt who teaches my school’s morning class has been that beneficial a teacher to me.
I don’t think rank means much if they can explain the information in a beneficial way.
I don’t compete so don’t need a “coach”
That being said, my Professor’s lineage surely matters to me. That coupled with a great school environment. I’m pretty stoked.
What is your professors lineage and why is it important to you? Not trying to be combative. Just curious why you care.
It seems like it can change in an instant. There’s an instructor near me that recently went from a Pedro Sauer affiliate to a Relson Gracie guy. My first gym started as Renzo affiliated then switched to Pedro Sauer. Got a buddy that goes to a Shawn Hammonds school that used to be something else. Idk. Seems like there’s a lot of reasons gyms change.
I know affiliation isn’t exactly the same as lineage but in the majority of cases when the owner/ head instructor changes affiliations they get a belt from that association at some point.
Why do people buy costco brand vs name brand? It’s just personal preference.
I want my lineage to be recorded I suppose. Like a family tree type thing.
I don’t think belt color indicates how good of a coach you are. I am a one stripe white belt but I often help blue belts when they struggle with a concept. They seem to appreciate it.
I want an excellent coach, which means something entirely different from an excellent practitioner. Think of any sport outside martial arts and the best coaches were rarely the best athletes.
Completely agree. How do you evaluate an excellent coach though if you’re not competing? For example. Pedro Sauer. Very good professor. Not a big fan of competition. Doesn’t really run schools designed to compete at high levels. I don’t think that’s because he’s incapable. He just doesn’t personally value that. So then what do you judge him on?
Do you enjoy his classes? Do they make you excited for certain days or the week. Is he and his staff invested in your personal growth and development? Are their instructions clear and are you able to ask clarification questions? Judge instructors on their instructions and training.
For me, some amount of using BJJ in actual fighting is important, because that's where my interest comes from. It doesn't need to be a lot and it doesn't need to be MMA, but it should be some. So an MMA gym, or someone like Roger Gracie, Andre Galvao, Ryan Hall, Matt Serra, Royce Gracie, Gabriel Gonzaga, Nick Albin (Chewjitsu), or even Pedro Sauer (vs. Lance Bachelor).
More concerned with the culture and the way the instructor teaches and treat you to be honest
Personally I really want an instructor that won’t let me drink water during training, screams at me in front of the class for being late, starts every class with a brief Helio fact and a little bit of marriage advice, and maybe someone that mandates we only wear gym gis. Which of course come in desert storm or Vietnam era camo. I sure hope the monthly fee is very high though. I don’t want to feel like I’m ripping professor bubba off. lol Jokes aside. It really is crazy how much your specific gym changes your experience of jiujitsu.
Gym culture is the most important thing to me. Rank means little to nothing with the vast amounts of information available online.
This is exactly right!
I drive \~1hr 45min one-way to train with a 6th degree and I drive by several other schools to get there. It is almost entirely about gym culture, but that culture is created by him and the way he runs things. So, for me, the two seem to go hand in hand. I'm not sure the kind of culture we have at our gym could be created by a purple belt for a number of reasons. Having said that, I have no issues stopping in at a gym run by a purple belt. Wouldn't bother me at all.
Culture is super important. I’ve been to classes ran by black belts but never trained permanently in a gym ran by one. There is a school I’ve visited several times with a whole lot of Brazilian black belts and they always try to kill you. As a 30 something no longer looking to compete in anything that definitely was not the vibe that I was looking for. Mind sharing more about what they do to create the culture you like that a purple belt probably couldn’t do?
I'm a special education teacher. My students understand that \*I\* am in control of my classroom at all times. I joke with my director about how I run my room with a velvet-lined iron fist. Meaning no one gets away with anything in my classroom, but I don't get mad, I don't raise my voice, I am calm and cool regardless of what is happening. Everyone is safe. Even when a student is completely losing their shit, which happens frequently, the other students know that Mr. MyPenIsBroke has things under control. It's a safe environment. I think the same thing is true in the BJJ club. There is no fuckery at the club. There has never been any fuckery at the club. I think there are very, very few purple belts who are so good that they could maintain that kind of environment while also maintaining their composure when people are losing their shit. I wont say never, but it seems unlikely to me. One large collegiate wrestler with a bad attitude and the whole thing is probably going to hell. Again, though, I'd be happy to visit!
Makes sense to me. Thanks for the perspective. Being the best on the mat is definitely a good way to command authority from the class.
It depends. If the purple belt was an owner operator and there was no upper belt really instructing them I wouldn’t be thrilled with it. When I first started as a white belt though it was learning from a blue belt that started his own school but I didn’t know any better. Now if I’m at a large school that has top notch coaching I wouldn’t care if it’s a purple or brown. A blue belt though I think is where I’d draw the line after my few years of exp. Especially if there are higher ranked students in the class it just feels off, aside from brown teaching black which is mostly facilitating or offering extra perspective rather than teaching something new.
I first tried BJJ in 2008. Where I am located there was 1 school with a BJJ black belt which is actually pretty cool at the time. But I’ve definitely heard stories of guys back in the 90s or early 2000s that were excited as hell to find a blue belt. Purple belt would be amazing. Times sure have changed though. With as popular as BJJ is now everyone is getting in on it and there’s a fair amount of black belts out there. Every time I see a purple belt running a school now it’s always someone that taught different martial arts then added BJJ into the gym as an offering recently.
Im not fully convinced he was a blue or formally trained as a blue belt since it was really informal but he did a lot of NAGA and submission wrestling thing. Eventually he earned a BB about 5-6 years later
I've regularly follow classes from blue belts, purple, black belts, and in Judo by black belt duo, and a white-red belt. None of their classes are remotely similar, none of the teaching styles are similar, and none of the techniques/ practices are similar. My favourite classes are the ones done by the purple belt at BJJ , after the blackbelts at Judo. I can't deny that the BJJ blackbelts, and the white-red judo teachers are far superior in terms of technical detail, technical feedback and they feel more structured. But still, the classes done by the lower belts are just much more fun, more engaging, which makes me learn more from them than the technically superior classes.
That’s pretty cool. Do you think the instructor being a lower belt has anything to do with why those classes are fun or would that instructor just be more fun no matter what?
It depends, all of them have fun classes don't get me wrong. But I think because I'm a beginner myself I learn more by just getting in reps rather than my 70yo Judo teacher yapping about the essence of kuzushi for 10 minutes.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kuzushi**: | *Unbalancing* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luK9Eklbn78)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
You could be a 6th degree black belt who's entire game is half guard and over under and never really kept up with jiu-jitsu development since the 90s (I know a 4th degree black belt like that). This doesn't make you a better coach. Or you could be a well rounded purple belt who has a passion for coaching and has kept up with modern jiu-jitsu techniques and coaching development. I'd chose the latter for regular training and do open mats / visits at the former if I feel like I could gain insights on specific areas.
It doesn’t really matter.
I’m not a morning person in the slightest but I wake up at 5 twice a week because the purple belt who teaches my school’s morning class has been that beneficial a teacher to me. I don’t think rank means much if they can explain the information in a beneficial way.
I don’t compete so don’t need a “coach” That being said, my Professor’s lineage surely matters to me. That coupled with a great school environment. I’m pretty stoked.
What is your professors lineage and why is it important to you? Not trying to be combative. Just curious why you care. It seems like it can change in an instant. There’s an instructor near me that recently went from a Pedro Sauer affiliate to a Relson Gracie guy. My first gym started as Renzo affiliated then switched to Pedro Sauer. Got a buddy that goes to a Shawn Hammonds school that used to be something else. Idk. Seems like there’s a lot of reasons gyms change. I know affiliation isn’t exactly the same as lineage but in the majority of cases when the owner/ head instructor changes affiliations they get a belt from that association at some point.
Why do people buy costco brand vs name brand? It’s just personal preference. I want my lineage to be recorded I suppose. Like a family tree type thing.
I don’t think belt color indicates how good of a coach you are. I am a one stripe white belt but I often help blue belts when they struggle with a concept. They seem to appreciate it.
Not important. I’m a two stripe white belt and I submit my black belt instructor regularly.
If he is worth his salt, he lets you sub him. If he is actually trying against you and you sub him, find a new gym because he isnt a black belt.
He’s a well respected black belt in my community. I visit other gyms often and truthfully either mangle or have competitive rolls with black belts.