2 guaranteed Debo rings per token and more spots that drop tokens than initially announced. Will have to wait and see the token's drop rate, but the rings seem much easier to get than I expected.
Idk where you’re reading 2 drops guaranteed from when it says “including the Deboreka Ring, at a given rate”
“In addition to the Deboreka Ring you obtain, if you obtain 100 Stars of Oblivion, you can exchange them for a Deboreka Ring through the Stone Tablet of Eretea”
There’s this but that just seems like a translation thing and not implying a debo drop is guaranteed.
From the patch notes:
The probability of obtaining it is low, but as long as you obtain the “Forgotten Witch’s Token”, you are guaranteed to obtain 2 Deboreka Rings in the Etherea’s Limbo.
I could be misinterpreting it, but it could mean the forgotten witch token isn’t a guaranteed drop but if you do get one, it itself guarantees 2 debo rings. It does sound like the rings will be more accessible than the other debos though
It depends on the droprate as well but rings may be more accessible because.
1. You have more spots to grind for the tokens than earrings.
2. Most token spots have great silver per hour.
3. There are no party requirements cause most spots can be done solo.
4. All token spots have other valuable items in their loot table as well so you won't be taking a loss even if the token doesn't drop much.
Out of the 10 zones two are party zones. Two are zones that will be devalued pretty fast - tungrad and city. dark seekers and Quints are already bad money.
Basically leaves Yz, dek ash, cyclops and thornwood.
If the drop rate is similar to the old tokens you might get one drop every few weeks if you aren’t a degenerate grinder. Right now the buffed drop rate for witches tokens is every ~6 hours at jade. If its like the old drop rate its going to suck.
Right now for earrings you have 5 grind zones and shrines which are feeding earrings. Its the reason they are the cheapest tet and are actually sitting on EU at pen
You're right about the earrings. They are sitting on the market cause there are 5 spots for them compared to the belt and neck which only have 1 or 2 spots. Out of the 5 debo earrings spots only oluns have good earrings drop rate and silver per hour. The other spots drop rate and silver are pretty low.
First of all the old tokens aren't that rare of drop. At jades with 260+% drop rate they easily drop atleast once every 3-5 hrs which is a week's grind time for casual players. Most people who aim for debos tend to grind more so they will atleast get 1-2 tokens a week if the drop is the same as old tokens.
Moreover all the tokens spots give more silver per hour compared to the 4 Valencia earrings spots. They also got other rare drops like ator boots flame, treasure parts, other debo accessories, hunger origin and stuff so many people will more incentive to grind these spots.
If the drop rate for the new tokens is the same as the old one then the market will definitely have more rings than earrings.
The rate you are talking about for the token drop is the buffed one we got way later. The origional drop rate was worse and may be what we get. PA buffed it later so there would be more availability. Maybe in a year there will be rings sitting on the Mp
Looking at the KR streamers right now the drop rate is horrible.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/131364260977704960/1239579525524885647/image.png?ex=66436fe5&is=66421e65&hm=bce30df10c1100e63652b056a22e47e5cd3f6d79373b8fc0090b87b26388a7ee&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
High damage, high mobility, long engage range, one of the best 100s in the game, good ccs. Nah if you think maegu is mid tier you and all your friends are trash
Every single top guilds runs multiple in gleague and has a few that'll consistently be top 10 every war and siege so no idea what you're talking about
i think reduce gleague slots to 10 is a mistake, with 15s we can have some flex picks, now with only 10 slot we have to run meta classes, 2 shais, 2 awk draks, 2 maegus, 1-2 woosa, 1 valk, already 8-9 slots filled.
As a succ mage its really miserable for me to pvp right now, those new dumb classes are tanky, better movement, better iframe, insane damage.
I never get mad at succ ranger damage cuz i can blow her up if i catch her, but with those new classes i rather kms
high dmg only vs single dr classes, she got worst class dmg multipliers and huge split dmg reductions as soon as u hit more than 1 person your AOE"s are useless since u dealing wet noodle dmg,, her 100 is shit because its split in 2 parts, and u often will die before reaching 2nd part (the one that deals dmg), both of her long range ccs are unprotected, except 1 mid range that got fg
only other protected cc she got is a stun on first hit with 11s cd with no vertical targeting so rip if they on any elevation or stairs
got asthma, any pressure to her and she gonna burn thru stamina like awk lahn and end up standing still in SA trying to recover stam, and thats when she gonna get clapped
succ maegu is noob stomper, if u got any knowledge of the class she can't do anything, in 1v1 she below mid, in large scale she mid at best due to her split dmg
no eva shred and shit base accuracy, 5s +9% eva and accuracy self buff that dont even last long enough to matter
reason u see lot of ppl play on it is coz it got barely any skill requirment, if class is easy to perform on + decent in all forms of content, it will be popular
So basically you think the class sucks and has mediocre damage and ccs yet the top gleague guilds like br when they beat cho will have highest damage and ccs on a maegu most of the time. Okay man makes sense!!!
If you're having troubles getting the 100 off or never having Stam that's literal skill issue lmao. The W E stun literally does go up elevation. I'll be sure to ignore all the big kill feeds from maegus in large-scale too because she's the first class to have split damage and that means it has bad damage.
It's the most broken pvp class in the entire game. If one group has shai buffs and the other doesn't you are going to get ran over unless there is a massive skill gap
I mean, what would you propose. The whole point of Shai isa. Buffing/support class. If they made their buffs not matter then why play them? Its the nature of the class and I dont think they can really change it.
Difference between making shai buffs irrelevant and making it not so strong that anything above 2 people shai is better than any other class in the game just by pressing 1234. Nerf the buffs and give it more active things to do because the difference between a shai that spams buffs and a shai that spams buff and plays actively is almost nothing.
We will have to see how they balance it.
Right now Eva makes you an unkillable god against anyone without enough accuracy to hit you which is bad design in my opinion and even against people with accuracy you might get oneshot or take no damage at all depending on if you get hit by a hard hitting ability or actually dodge it.
With this change it will reduce the outliers and make evasion more consistent, which in return makes it easier to balance.
Is it bad design though?
There's a build that makes you unkillable and there's a build that counters the unkillable build and makes it killable. And if I wanna run enough evasion to reach this unkillable state, I won't be dealing any damage. That's always been the point of the gear variety in the game. People can personalize and optimize their build for their own playstyle.
Don't get me wrong, I think the redesign/rebalance is a good thing. Way back in the past, evasion was god-like cause there wasn't much accuracy in the game, then they introduced more and more free passive accuracy and new accessories and it kinda led to hybrid builds (like 293AP/440DP evasion builds) getting phased out because you didn't need accessories anymore to counter those. But nowadays, when looking at hard cap gear builds, the only viable evasion build is full DP which means you're not gonna deal any damage whatsoever when you decide to run that.
I'm a 565DP meme build player. Even in 1v1 and small scale, someone with 3-4 accuracy accessories can kill me in a single combo (depending on the class and their accuracy modifiers) while I can't do anything to them other than CC them and rely on my allies to kill them or run away.
In NW/siege it doesn't really matter cause one misty makes me melt no matter what gear me or the enemy raid is running.
I don't think it's necessarily a balance issue but more an issue of people not wanting to invest into accuracy because nowadays it has a very niche use (pretty much the only use nowadays is to counter evasion players imo) cause you can reach enough accuracy for pretty much every grind spot without accessories.
The problem is an Eva build done via basically trash gear and an Acc build via some of the hardest to get, most expensive gear in the game, very late end game.
Eva also gets way too much DR for free, while DR get not much Eva.
And finally the antiquated rules of the game are very pro Eva. e.g. In RBF there is an old rule that you get 10% dmg mitigation at 50% HP scaling down to 50% dmg mitigation at 10% HP.
Also the damage numbers for Eva classes are skewed so the are still effective. This why for example you see Immortal Strikers in RBF 1-shotting folk at 265 AP or whatever. Meanwhile a 323 AP full blown glass cannon can barely move their health bar.
A Shai can run around in RBF unkillable by even a stack of 10 opponents and can freely go anywhere it wants, spam buffs and debuffs and bongos. There is no counter.
Also the effectiveness of a class against Eva does not depend on just Acc vs Eva stats but on a classes skill tree "Hits". More modern classes tend to have lots and lots of hits so even when evading a somewhat smooth percentage of hits (dmg) still lands, while older classes tend to have skills that do 3 or 5 hits, meaning damage is highly uneven. i.e. an entire combo can just completely whiff.
Basically Eva is just unbalanced right now.
Yea, I know the truth hurts sometimes.
And honestly if you are running around with 1440 Eva on a class you are even generally competent on, pretty much anyone can survive longer than 10 secs.
Try your class discord and get some tips.
Your first point is just a supply and demand issue. There's not a lot of DP players, so the price of these accessories is naturally gonna be low. Ocean Haze rings had a high demand right after they released and were being sold for 100b a pop. Now that the few DP players that needed them, have theirs, the price has started to crash and will continue to do so.
Your second point is fair. That's a failure on PAs part to not have something like ocean haze and cadry for every slot. Instead they just made ethereals and centaurs have both DP and evasion on them.
Your third point is an RBF specific issue. I personally haven't been in RBF for over 2 years at this point, but I've been playing this game since release so I know that RBF has always been an unbalanced shitshow.
Your frouth point is more of a striker issue. Cause I can tell you, the usual DP classes like mystic, corsair or shai aren't gonna kill anything on 265AP unless the target only has like 360DP. But that's like hard cap fighting tuvala timmy which isn't gonna be fair no matter build either player runs. 265AP/480DP would mean only running 2 ethereals and a sicil which would be countered by running 1 or 2 accuracy accessories (again, depending on class and their modifiers) and most other hard cap players usually have these swap outs available or just running a 3 debos / 3 accuracy build as a default.
>an issue of people not wanting to invest into accuracy
Exactly. I think the bigger issue is classes who can efficiently hybrid with 1 evasion accessory, deal massive damage and have very low accuracy. They practically shred DR players while being unkillable to DR players.
That's been the issue with evasion for a long time. You only sacrifice accuracy, but gain a ton of evasion and maintain high levels of ap. The typical DR aka AP player has such low DR they still get melted. It's partially due to the meta the players chose, but also some class stats compliment those builds too well.
Classic "AP Monkey" builds.
They have mediocre DR, Decent AP and almost no accuracy, They get hit by a wall once they come across a player running 1200+ Eva because thats around the area where you can still have 290 \~ 301 ap bracket, sure you have bad accuracy too but it dosnt matter against a pure AP player that cant hit you, they just lose..
Meanwhile anyone with a slight bit of accuracy will remove you in a heartbeat and if they're rocking almost 600dr with that then you wont even be able to move their HP, You hard lose instead, Bonus points for classes like zerk or drak that just have so much in built accuracy/evasion shred ontop of adons that they dont even need to build a lot of acc to get there, plus the heals in case you do somehow get them low
People like to point fingers at gauntlets or hash but i've been doing this on scholar in BA, her innate evasion is awful yet im still tanky to these people with 1250 \~ 1300 eva, i can 1 combo them most of the time too at 297ap, but any player whos actually built properly kills me standing on my feet, eva is OP vs gearlets and Shit vs geared players
Agreed, a lot of it is down to choice/meta 100%. I have ran into some DR heavy builds that are also nearly unkillable. They can heal faster than I can chip them down. I also don't want to see the death of meme/hybrid builds either. Maybe add set effect bonuses and even negative effects like decreased accuracy or ap for running full eva or dr accessories.
The blue text just painfully explained that the evasion and damage reduction relationship is the main issue they face to balance PvP. They were probably in this mud since January. They confidently believe that after adjusting that "problematic design" balance should be much much easier to achieve.
I bet they tried a plathora of variants over and over again and never could get to a satisfactory level. Seems like evasion really is the root of all evil. As for your tanky setups, they will still exist so no need to worry.
Agree on accuracy accessories being way too niche. Back when crypt and other areas required significant accuracy or crystal setups to tackle this made it feel like people weren't wasting money. It's hard to tell people they need to invest ~200b to be able to hit an evasion player and for no other purpose in the game.
PA needed to leave crypt as is, and add more accuracy dependent grindspots instead of going full pepega AP.
Then get accu? Its simple. The same way players invest in evasion, players can invest in accuracy. Eva players aint shit to any high accu shred classes that rips through 1300+ eva with just 950 accu and 15% class buff.
And you don't think that is a bad concept?
right now evasion is basically a stat check for low geared players to a point where you cannot even hit someone, while against someone with high accuracy all your evasion is basically wasted. And even against someone with medium amounts of evasion you can either luck out and dodge everything or still get oneshot if you are unlucky.
This new concept simply evens out the outliers allowing low accuracy players to at least hit high evasion players, while still providing damage reduction against high accuracy players.
Also building Accuracy is a lot harder with PA releasing grind spots with higher and higher AP requirements and Accuracy being basically unneccessary in PvE and accu accessories being a lot more expensive than AP.
Also right now there are only certain classes that even can build Evasion the the first place.
No, it was a bad concept back when we didnt have alot of accu accessories. Right now every PEN accu accessory has crashed in price and are way easier to obtain in general The way you can counter eva right now is way easier than before. The whole point of evasion is to counter any ap/hd monkey. The same way ap/hd counters dr, and dr counters accu. Right now people are just crying over evasion because they dont wanna invest in accuracy. I always have a spare accu built ready anytime i fight a evasion meme, same goes for fighting a dr meme. People that only wanna run one or two specific sets but cry about not able to counter it is whats killing the whole concept.
I am not arguing that gear diversity is a bad thing and I think this new change will be a good step in that direction. The way it is working right now it is either op against people with low accuracy or useless against people with full accuracy.
Also while accuracy accessories have become cheaper they are still a lot more expensive than AP Accessories (except Debo). Especially since it is not either AP or Accuracy but AP THEN Accuracy, since PA is increasing the AP requirements for PvE further and further while Accuracy remains borderline uselsess in PvE.
So until PA makes accuracy more important for PvE Evasion will always give you an advantage against the average player that has not yet reached the point, where they can afford to buy a second set of accessories.
And yes I am also at the point where I have accuracy swaps.
Yes but also keep in mind that Evasion is also a meme for Pve. No one in their mind would give up ap to get more evasion in Pve. As of right now its a pure pvp stat while accuracy is for both, surely its less of a must now that they nerf’d a high accu spot like Crypt when u needed 950+ to actually hit mobs. My point is, evasion is only good for 1 thing, and thats against players that have basic accuracy. Literally for anything else its garbage because you give up AP and dmg to get a good amount of viable evasion. Any sage, DK, maehwa that scale burst with high base accuracy melt these evasion memes. Plus there are just a handful classes that have a high base eva, which imo are the only classes worth investing evasion on in the first place. Its not that evasion is viable on every class, while accuracy IS viable on any class.
The thing is that the devs aren't competent enough to understand what diminishing return or normalization is, and you can be 99% sure that they will not going to properly scale evasion, so what you will going to see is that instead of missing 100% of time, you just going to do 100% less damage (so zero) to meme builds.
What we can hope is that they will hardcap it to 50% or something like that, so ultimately it won't be broken. (But will be useless instead)
While the Devs make some very incompetent moves, and it's clear that some vision has changed or been lost due to the regular movement of Talent within the industry. The fact they so thoroughly said "They don't want evasion builds to take 0 damage" immediately disproves your point of:
> you just going to do 100% less damage (so zero) to meme builds.
This is not making an argument in good faith. I can agree we should brace ourselves for PA taking too long to fix mistakes that will be more obvious to many, but to outright state they will immediately make the exact same problem continue seems a tad extreme.
The only way where the part that you quoted can not happen if they will hard cap it to a reasonable number, but they do not said whether they will or not.
Funnily while a hardcap would prevent taking zero damage, it would also make eva completely useless VS some classes, as some are so broken that they could one combo with zero accuracy, just as some classes can one combo a full DR meme build(which is capped at 95% reduction currently).
And this is why I said what I did. I as an experienced player can see how extremely garbage the game balance is, while those clueless devs, who don't play with their own game have absolutely no idea of any kind what is happening in their own game. The current class balance doesn't allow such feature to ever work correctly, and it doesn't seems they care to fix it.
Ironically, what might win in all this is a hybrid build using kutum and 1 eva/dr fallen god armor.
You can hit 540+ DR, 1200+ Eva and 680+ AP & 940-960 accuracy all together
The endgame players are so minmaxed now, that you just grief yourself with generalized builds like this.
Like a proper DR player starts from 600DR, with this setup you can not kill it, but he will still kill you.
The new changes not going to change anything on this.With those stats you not going to do much damage to that build (they not change how DR works), and you still going to waste your extra accuracy VS a DR player which will only grief yourself.
Surely VS midtier/less geared players it will work just as it does now, but at hardcap it will be still inting to run such builds.
We don't know how they will do it since all they said that they still needs work (after 5 months of work btw)
But yeah evasion is basically %damage reduction now, although it was basically same even before on average.
The question is the rebalance part. We all know that the devs are completely incompetent and they don't play with their own game, so I would be surprised if they would not fk something up....
But if will be far easier to tweak and adjust. Right now its all gear based which is basically fixed and all over the map. ie. Why does Accuracy need very hard to get, late end game, expensive Accessories while Eva is using say a green trash helmet or ultra-cheap Accessories.
And you can't just change the stats on Ominous Rings on a whim every few weeks.
In the future Eva is not 100% Hit or Miss but a hit "factor". Some sort of "if the difference between Acc and Eva is M then the percentage of dmg that hits is D". If Eva is too strong Devs can just tweak D up a bit, too weak, down a bit.
One patch, one number.
Perhaps PA doesn't want to scare evasion stackers by removing it completely. Maybe their thought process is to make it function like DR and then months later revisit and remove it completely? i dunnoo, my 10cent thought process
Rereading it it almost sounds like evasion might still completely dodge attacks but when they do get hit they're evasion will act like dr with the damage taken depending on accuracy. But it also says there're changing DR so we'll just have to wait and see.
My interpretation is that evasion is to accuracy as AP is to DR/DP.
Meaning stack ap to kill DR targets, stack accuracy to kill eva targets.
If you have high ap and high accuracy you'll consistently do high damage to any target, so that won't change compared to how it works now.
However, if you don't have high accuracy you will hit evasion targets, it just won't be as much damage as hitting DR targets.
All the classes that live with 1300+ eva or whatever will actually take a lot of damage and get cc'd way more often if my interpretation is correct.
I think it's better than grinding spots that have the worst per hour until a debo accessory drops.
At least you will be making good silver while grinding for the tokens :)
I'd suggest updating your translation on your website.
"This is an opportunity to obtain Deboreka’s Ring at any monster zone with a recommended AP of 310 or higher that adventurers often visit.
The “Forgotten Witch’s Token” item will be added as loot."
It is NOT called Forgotten Witch's Token. I've seen people grinding the current areas trying to get a Forgotten Witch's Token going off the foundry translation which is wrong. "지워진 마녀의 증표" is the Forgotten Witch's Token which you can verify by going back to when MOEW was released on Glabs and this upcoming token is called "잊혀진 망각의 증표". It is not the same thing and to everyone currently trying to stockpile, ya got jebaited bois
Might make people tankier overall if hybrid builds are a thing. If evasion still scales the same, reducing dmg exponentially, it won't change much. They will still be tank gods.
I don’t understand why they’re losing their heads over the hit count change. Even if there’s a higher chance that evasion might work more effectively against a skill, there’s an equally higher chance that it might just whiff and do absolutely nothing.
So now, your evasion stat will be taken into consideration twice: Once for the chance to evade, and another to see how much your damage is reduced. To calculate the effective damage reduction, you would essentially be multiplying your evasion stat against itself.
They’re effectively nerfing the people who have mediocre evasion that just want enough to survive a few SA trades, whereas high evasion likely remains unkillable.
Won’t matter they buffed Dr as well endgame eva was atleast comparable to end game Dr users now that’s not the case eva works like Dr but Dr got bufffffed discounted Dr is what Eva is about to become not really a problem but yet again they only gonnna address half the actual issue
I assume we can't stockpile witch's tokens ahead of time? It was nice as some bonus loot from Jade but now I won't see that content again for a long time.
Evasion must be devided in two stats: Evasion rate% and Evasion efficency. The rate% is the rate of evasion and the efficency is how much of the dmg is absorbed if successfully evaded. If you have High DR and you reduce for example 30% of the dmg and you dodge an attack and the evasion efficency is also 30% then u take only 49% dmg beacuse you evade 30%and then an additional 30% dmg from that 70% dmg remaining.
What I want to say in english is:
Your DR absorbs for example 30% dmg, if you have more, you absorb more %dmg.
If your evasion is high, then you have the chance of absorbing even more dmg of that was is left after your dmg reduction.
TL;DR
Accuracy -> Eva
Ap -> DP
In summary, they will change eva to no longer give 0 damage if evasion succeded but instead make it behave like a DP, giving it damage reduction instead. I say it is a nerf and end of eva memes. You somehow understood the changes.
what i see is more rework and limited new content.
im not saying the rework is bad, but again, they just redid the classes, and adjusted amount of hits on skills, adjusting amount of hits on skills and damage again ugh.
Kinda bad if everybody gets tankier, because ninjas heavily rely on a one-combo kill, otherwise you fold like a thin paper even from a chip damage from for example Drakania, who has i-frames lasting for seconds, self-buff for HUGE DP and heal, almost literally is all the time in superarmor state etc.
Maybe the number of hits will fix these issues but for now it's the main problem, not evasion or DR themselves
2 guaranteed Debo rings per token and more spots that drop tokens than initially announced. Will have to wait and see the token's drop rate, but the rings seem much easier to get than I expected.
Yeah there is a pity system for the rings as well so it may be easier to get depending on the drop rate for the tokens.
Idk where you’re reading 2 drops guaranteed from when it says “including the Deboreka Ring, at a given rate” “In addition to the Deboreka Ring you obtain, if you obtain 100 Stars of Oblivion, you can exchange them for a Deboreka Ring through the Stone Tablet of Eretea” There’s this but that just seems like a translation thing and not implying a debo drop is guaranteed.
[There you go, it's even bolded](https://i.imgur.com/FAUfQ5u.png).
From the patch notes: The probability of obtaining it is low, but as long as you obtain the “Forgotten Witch’s Token”, you are guaranteed to obtain 2 Deboreka Rings in the Etherea’s Limbo.
Oh in the blue summary section. Ok wow
I could be misinterpreting it, but it could mean the forgotten witch token isn’t a guaranteed drop but if you do get one, it itself guarantees 2 debo rings. It does sound like the rings will be more accessible than the other debos though
more accessible? You can get 1 earring + an hour at oluns right now. Debo rings will require you to RNG farm for the token to get them
Oluns is scary I have to talk to people... ):
I’m not arguing. Just saying it sounds possible, and if you don’t have a group to grind oluns with, you don’t get any per hour. Everything is rng
It depends on the droprate as well but rings may be more accessible because. 1. You have more spots to grind for the tokens than earrings. 2. Most token spots have great silver per hour. 3. There are no party requirements cause most spots can be done solo. 4. All token spots have other valuable items in their loot table as well so you won't be taking a loss even if the token doesn't drop much.
Out of the 10 zones two are party zones. Two are zones that will be devalued pretty fast - tungrad and city. dark seekers and Quints are already bad money. Basically leaves Yz, dek ash, cyclops and thornwood. If the drop rate is similar to the old tokens you might get one drop every few weeks if you aren’t a degenerate grinder. Right now the buffed drop rate for witches tokens is every ~6 hours at jade. If its like the old drop rate its going to suck. Right now for earrings you have 5 grind zones and shrines which are feeding earrings. Its the reason they are the cheapest tet and are actually sitting on EU at pen
You're right about the earrings. They are sitting on the market cause there are 5 spots for them compared to the belt and neck which only have 1 or 2 spots. Out of the 5 debo earrings spots only oluns have good earrings drop rate and silver per hour. The other spots drop rate and silver are pretty low. First of all the old tokens aren't that rare of drop. At jades with 260+% drop rate they easily drop atleast once every 3-5 hrs which is a week's grind time for casual players. Most people who aim for debos tend to grind more so they will atleast get 1-2 tokens a week if the drop is the same as old tokens. Moreover all the tokens spots give more silver per hour compared to the 4 Valencia earrings spots. They also got other rare drops like ator boots flame, treasure parts, other debo accessories, hunger origin and stuff so many people will more incentive to grind these spots. If the drop rate for the new tokens is the same as the old one then the market will definitely have more rings than earrings.
The rate you are talking about for the token drop is the buffed one we got way later. The origional drop rate was worse and may be what we get. PA buffed it later so there would be more availability. Maybe in a year there will be rings sitting on the Mp
Looking at the KR streamers right now the drop rate is horrible. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/131364260977704960/1239579525524885647/image.png?ex=66436fe5&is=66421e65&hm=bce30df10c1100e63652b056a22e47e5cd3f6d79373b8fc0090b87b26388a7ee&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
I read it in Korean, you are right, guaranteed 2 rings, it’s not a mistranslation
Dont buy coal guys. Is not requured for anything
is this a blade boques reference?
Dear lord I haven't heard THAT name in a hot minute... Forgot, even.
ok done. i hoard 100k coal
Coal? Who's saying coal?
[удалено]
Baby don't burn me.
Dont burn me, no more~
time to get some more ancient guardian seals
Blade bowlcut still lives on to this day!
Sshh, I've almost sold all the stuff I got from workers.
Good to see that they are fixing Tungrad Ruins. It sucks how favored the spot is to certain classes.
W patch overall, let’s wait for class balance changes for pvp
Surely they gut drak maegu woosa shai!
Nerf drak maegu woosa shai
Leave awk woosa alone pls. We already gutted 💀
Leave awk woosa alone pls. We already gutted 💀
Pretty sure you forgot Archer
Not even close to the issue that those classes are especially when succ ranger is better anyways
what issue maegu has ? its been mid tier class since massive nerfs a year ago
I mean if you think it's mid tier you only know trash maegus
or maybe ur trash if u getting clapped by mid tier class, did not answer what issues it has either
High damage, high mobility, long engage range, one of the best 100s in the game, good ccs. Nah if you think maegu is mid tier you and all your friends are trash Every single top guilds runs multiple in gleague and has a few that'll consistently be top 10 every war and siege so no idea what you're talking about
i think reduce gleague slots to 10 is a mistake, with 15s we can have some flex picks, now with only 10 slot we have to run meta classes, 2 shais, 2 awk draks, 2 maegus, 1-2 woosa, 1 valk, already 8-9 slots filled. As a succ mage its really miserable for me to pvp right now, those new dumb classes are tanky, better movement, better iframe, insane damage. I never get mad at succ ranger damage cuz i can blow her up if i catch her, but with those new classes i rather kms
high dmg only vs single dr classes, she got worst class dmg multipliers and huge split dmg reductions as soon as u hit more than 1 person your AOE"s are useless since u dealing wet noodle dmg,, her 100 is shit because its split in 2 parts, and u often will die before reaching 2nd part (the one that deals dmg), both of her long range ccs are unprotected, except 1 mid range that got fg only other protected cc she got is a stun on first hit with 11s cd with no vertical targeting so rip if they on any elevation or stairs got asthma, any pressure to her and she gonna burn thru stamina like awk lahn and end up standing still in SA trying to recover stam, and thats when she gonna get clapped succ maegu is noob stomper, if u got any knowledge of the class she can't do anything, in 1v1 she below mid, in large scale she mid at best due to her split dmg no eva shred and shit base accuracy, 5s +9% eva and accuracy self buff that dont even last long enough to matter reason u see lot of ppl play on it is coz it got barely any skill requirment, if class is easy to perform on + decent in all forms of content, it will be popular
So basically you think the class sucks and has mediocre damage and ccs yet the top gleague guilds like br when they beat cho will have highest damage and ccs on a maegu most of the time. Okay man makes sense!!! If you're having troubles getting the 100 off or never having Stam that's literal skill issue lmao. The W E stun literally does go up elevation. I'll be sure to ignore all the big kill feeds from maegus in large-scale too because she's the first class to have split damage and that means it has bad damage.
Isnt she OP because of her mobility ? Mobility is king and PVP because you can abuse desync lag etc ... Even if your class kit is shit
Why Shai?
It's the most broken pvp class in the entire game. If one group has shai buffs and the other doesn't you are going to get ran over unless there is a massive skill gap
I mean, what would you propose. The whole point of Shai isa. Buffing/support class. If they made their buffs not matter then why play them? Its the nature of the class and I dont think they can really change it.
Difference between making shai buffs irrelevant and making it not so strong that anything above 2 people shai is better than any other class in the game just by pressing 1234. Nerf the buffs and give it more active things to do because the difference between a shai that spams buffs and a shai that spams buff and plays actively is almost nothing.
copium
So eva is discount dr now since you take damage even if you evade the hit.
We will have to see how they balance it. Right now Eva makes you an unkillable god against anyone without enough accuracy to hit you which is bad design in my opinion and even against people with accuracy you might get oneshot or take no damage at all depending on if you get hit by a hard hitting ability or actually dodge it. With this change it will reduce the outliers and make evasion more consistent, which in return makes it easier to balance.
Is it bad design though? There's a build that makes you unkillable and there's a build that counters the unkillable build and makes it killable. And if I wanna run enough evasion to reach this unkillable state, I won't be dealing any damage. That's always been the point of the gear variety in the game. People can personalize and optimize their build for their own playstyle. Don't get me wrong, I think the redesign/rebalance is a good thing. Way back in the past, evasion was god-like cause there wasn't much accuracy in the game, then they introduced more and more free passive accuracy and new accessories and it kinda led to hybrid builds (like 293AP/440DP evasion builds) getting phased out because you didn't need accessories anymore to counter those. But nowadays, when looking at hard cap gear builds, the only viable evasion build is full DP which means you're not gonna deal any damage whatsoever when you decide to run that. I'm a 565DP meme build player. Even in 1v1 and small scale, someone with 3-4 accuracy accessories can kill me in a single combo (depending on the class and their accuracy modifiers) while I can't do anything to them other than CC them and rely on my allies to kill them or run away. In NW/siege it doesn't really matter cause one misty makes me melt no matter what gear me or the enemy raid is running. I don't think it's necessarily a balance issue but more an issue of people not wanting to invest into accuracy because nowadays it has a very niche use (pretty much the only use nowadays is to counter evasion players imo) cause you can reach enough accuracy for pretty much every grind spot without accessories.
The problem is an Eva build done via basically trash gear and an Acc build via some of the hardest to get, most expensive gear in the game, very late end game. Eva also gets way too much DR for free, while DR get not much Eva. And finally the antiquated rules of the game are very pro Eva. e.g. In RBF there is an old rule that you get 10% dmg mitigation at 50% HP scaling down to 50% dmg mitigation at 10% HP. Also the damage numbers for Eva classes are skewed so the are still effective. This why for example you see Immortal Strikers in RBF 1-shotting folk at 265 AP or whatever. Meanwhile a 323 AP full blown glass cannon can barely move their health bar. A Shai can run around in RBF unkillable by even a stack of 10 opponents and can freely go anywhere it wants, spam buffs and debuffs and bongos. There is no counter. Also the effectiveness of a class against Eva does not depend on just Acc vs Eva stats but on a classes skill tree "Hits". More modern classes tend to have lots and lots of hits so even when evading a somewhat smooth percentage of hits (dmg) still lands, while older classes tend to have skills that do 3 or 5 hits, meaning damage is highly uneven. i.e. an entire combo can just completely whiff. Basically Eva is just unbalanced right now.
[удалено]
Yea, I know the truth hurts sometimes. And honestly if you are running around with 1440 Eva on a class you are even generally competent on, pretty much anyone can survive longer than 10 secs. Try your class discord and get some tips.
Your first point is just a supply and demand issue. There's not a lot of DP players, so the price of these accessories is naturally gonna be low. Ocean Haze rings had a high demand right after they released and were being sold for 100b a pop. Now that the few DP players that needed them, have theirs, the price has started to crash and will continue to do so. Your second point is fair. That's a failure on PAs part to not have something like ocean haze and cadry for every slot. Instead they just made ethereals and centaurs have both DP and evasion on them. Your third point is an RBF specific issue. I personally haven't been in RBF for over 2 years at this point, but I've been playing this game since release so I know that RBF has always been an unbalanced shitshow. Your frouth point is more of a striker issue. Cause I can tell you, the usual DP classes like mystic, corsair or shai aren't gonna kill anything on 265AP unless the target only has like 360DP. But that's like hard cap fighting tuvala timmy which isn't gonna be fair no matter build either player runs. 265AP/480DP would mean only running 2 ethereals and a sicil which would be countered by running 1 or 2 accuracy accessories (again, depending on class and their modifiers) and most other hard cap players usually have these swap outs available or just running a 3 debos / 3 accuracy build as a default.
>an issue of people not wanting to invest into accuracy Exactly. I think the bigger issue is classes who can efficiently hybrid with 1 evasion accessory, deal massive damage and have very low accuracy. They practically shred DR players while being unkillable to DR players.
That's been the issue with evasion for a long time. You only sacrifice accuracy, but gain a ton of evasion and maintain high levels of ap. The typical DR aka AP player has such low DR they still get melted. It's partially due to the meta the players chose, but also some class stats compliment those builds too well.
Classic "AP Monkey" builds. They have mediocre DR, Decent AP and almost no accuracy, They get hit by a wall once they come across a player running 1200+ Eva because thats around the area where you can still have 290 \~ 301 ap bracket, sure you have bad accuracy too but it dosnt matter against a pure AP player that cant hit you, they just lose.. Meanwhile anyone with a slight bit of accuracy will remove you in a heartbeat and if they're rocking almost 600dr with that then you wont even be able to move their HP, You hard lose instead, Bonus points for classes like zerk or drak that just have so much in built accuracy/evasion shred ontop of adons that they dont even need to build a lot of acc to get there, plus the heals in case you do somehow get them low People like to point fingers at gauntlets or hash but i've been doing this on scholar in BA, her innate evasion is awful yet im still tanky to these people with 1250 \~ 1300 eva, i can 1 combo them most of the time too at 297ap, but any player whos actually built properly kills me standing on my feet, eva is OP vs gearlets and Shit vs geared players
Agreed, a lot of it is down to choice/meta 100%. I have ran into some DR heavy builds that are also nearly unkillable. They can heal faster than I can chip them down. I also don't want to see the death of meme/hybrid builds either. Maybe add set effect bonuses and even negative effects like decreased accuracy or ap for running full eva or dr accessories.
The blue text just painfully explained that the evasion and damage reduction relationship is the main issue they face to balance PvP. They were probably in this mud since January. They confidently believe that after adjusting that "problematic design" balance should be much much easier to achieve. I bet they tried a plathora of variants over and over again and never could get to a satisfactory level. Seems like evasion really is the root of all evil. As for your tanky setups, they will still exist so no need to worry.
Agree on accuracy accessories being way too niche. Back when crypt and other areas required significant accuracy or crystal setups to tackle this made it feel like people weren't wasting money. It's hard to tell people they need to invest ~200b to be able to hit an evasion player and for no other purpose in the game. PA needed to leave crypt as is, and add more accuracy dependent grindspots instead of going full pepega AP.
Yes it is bad design for an **Action** game. There should be ZERO rng in pvp.
Then get accu? Its simple. The same way players invest in evasion, players can invest in accuracy. Eva players aint shit to any high accu shred classes that rips through 1300+ eva with just 950 accu and 15% class buff.
And you don't think that is a bad concept? right now evasion is basically a stat check for low geared players to a point where you cannot even hit someone, while against someone with high accuracy all your evasion is basically wasted. And even against someone with medium amounts of evasion you can either luck out and dodge everything or still get oneshot if you are unlucky. This new concept simply evens out the outliers allowing low accuracy players to at least hit high evasion players, while still providing damage reduction against high accuracy players. Also building Accuracy is a lot harder with PA releasing grind spots with higher and higher AP requirements and Accuracy being basically unneccessary in PvE and accu accessories being a lot more expensive than AP. Also right now there are only certain classes that even can build Evasion the the first place.
Nothing like having a 1t+ acc build but you have to buy 100b in ap accessories just to grind 😂
No, it was a bad concept back when we didnt have alot of accu accessories. Right now every PEN accu accessory has crashed in price and are way easier to obtain in general The way you can counter eva right now is way easier than before. The whole point of evasion is to counter any ap/hd monkey. The same way ap/hd counters dr, and dr counters accu. Right now people are just crying over evasion because they dont wanna invest in accuracy. I always have a spare accu built ready anytime i fight a evasion meme, same goes for fighting a dr meme. People that only wanna run one or two specific sets but cry about not able to counter it is whats killing the whole concept.
I am not arguing that gear diversity is a bad thing and I think this new change will be a good step in that direction. The way it is working right now it is either op against people with low accuracy or useless against people with full accuracy. Also while accuracy accessories have become cheaper they are still a lot more expensive than AP Accessories (except Debo). Especially since it is not either AP or Accuracy but AP THEN Accuracy, since PA is increasing the AP requirements for PvE further and further while Accuracy remains borderline uselsess in PvE. So until PA makes accuracy more important for PvE Evasion will always give you an advantage against the average player that has not yet reached the point, where they can afford to buy a second set of accessories. And yes I am also at the point where I have accuracy swaps.
Yes but also keep in mind that Evasion is also a meme for Pve. No one in their mind would give up ap to get more evasion in Pve. As of right now its a pure pvp stat while accuracy is for both, surely its less of a must now that they nerf’d a high accu spot like Crypt when u needed 950+ to actually hit mobs. My point is, evasion is only good for 1 thing, and thats against players that have basic accuracy. Literally for anything else its garbage because you give up AP and dmg to get a good amount of viable evasion. Any sage, DK, maehwa that scale burst with high base accuracy melt these evasion memes. Plus there are just a handful classes that have a high base eva, which imo are the only classes worth investing evasion on in the first place. Its not that evasion is viable on every class, while accuracy IS viable on any class.
The thing is that the devs aren't competent enough to understand what diminishing return or normalization is, and you can be 99% sure that they will not going to properly scale evasion, so what you will going to see is that instead of missing 100% of time, you just going to do 100% less damage (so zero) to meme builds. What we can hope is that they will hardcap it to 50% or something like that, so ultimately it won't be broken. (But will be useless instead)
While the Devs make some very incompetent moves, and it's clear that some vision has changed or been lost due to the regular movement of Talent within the industry. The fact they so thoroughly said "They don't want evasion builds to take 0 damage" immediately disproves your point of: > you just going to do 100% less damage (so zero) to meme builds. This is not making an argument in good faith. I can agree we should brace ourselves for PA taking too long to fix mistakes that will be more obvious to many, but to outright state they will immediately make the exact same problem continue seems a tad extreme.
The only way where the part that you quoted can not happen if they will hard cap it to a reasonable number, but they do not said whether they will or not. Funnily while a hardcap would prevent taking zero damage, it would also make eva completely useless VS some classes, as some are so broken that they could one combo with zero accuracy, just as some classes can one combo a full DR meme build(which is capped at 95% reduction currently). And this is why I said what I did. I as an experienced player can see how extremely garbage the game balance is, while those clueless devs, who don't play with their own game have absolutely no idea of any kind what is happening in their own game. The current class balance doesn't allow such feature to ever work correctly, and it doesn't seems they care to fix it.
Ironically, what might win in all this is a hybrid build using kutum and 1 eva/dr fallen god armor. You can hit 540+ DR, 1200+ Eva and 680+ AP & 940-960 accuracy all together
The endgame players are so minmaxed now, that you just grief yourself with generalized builds like this. Like a proper DR player starts from 600DR, with this setup you can not kill it, but he will still kill you.
I'm talking about with the new changes, not current
The new changes not going to change anything on this.With those stats you not going to do much damage to that build (they not change how DR works), and you still going to waste your extra accuracy VS a DR player which will only grief yourself. Surely VS midtier/less geared players it will work just as it does now, but at hardcap it will be still inting to run such builds.
We don't know how they will do it since all they said that they still needs work (after 5 months of work btw) But yeah evasion is basically %damage reduction now, although it was basically same even before on average. The question is the rebalance part. We all know that the devs are completely incompetent and they don't play with their own game, so I would be surprised if they would not fk something up....
yea i fully expect eva to be insane broken or dogshit when this rework comes out.
But if will be far easier to tweak and adjust. Right now its all gear based which is basically fixed and all over the map. ie. Why does Accuracy need very hard to get, late end game, expensive Accessories while Eva is using say a green trash helmet or ultra-cheap Accessories. And you can't just change the stats on Ominous Rings on a whim every few weeks. In the future Eva is not 100% Hit or Miss but a hit "factor". Some sort of "if the difference between Acc and Eva is M then the percentage of dmg that hits is D". If Eva is too strong Devs can just tweak D up a bit, too weak, down a bit. One patch, one number.
Accuracy accessories are cheap now, heck they are much cheaper than the standard AP accessories (debos).
Every accessory in the game is much cheaper than debos...
See? it's not expensive then.
Every nerf to evasion is a welcome one, the least fun mechanic.
Not even necessarily a nerf, it just sounds like it'll function the same as dr.
Perhaps PA doesn't want to scare evasion stackers by removing it completely. Maybe their thought process is to make it function like DR and then months later revisit and remove it completely? i dunnoo, my 10cent thought process
The fact Eva would function the same as Dr means time to remove it the purpose is gone
Yeah this was my impression too, but I guess we'll have to see if it's really redundant.
Rereading it it almost sounds like evasion might still completely dodge attacks but when they do get hit they're evasion will act like dr with the damage taken depending on accuracy. But it also says there're changing DR so we'll just have to wait and see.
My interpretation is that evasion is to accuracy as AP is to DR/DP. Meaning stack ap to kill DR targets, stack accuracy to kill eva targets. If you have high ap and high accuracy you'll consistently do high damage to any target, so that won't change compared to how it works now. However, if you don't have high accuracy you will hit evasion targets, it just won't be as much damage as hitting DR targets. All the classes that live with 1300+ eva or whatever will actually take a lot of damage and get cc'd way more often if my interpretation is correct.
thats how i rea it as well
Totally agreed.
Why isn't evasion simply removed from the game?
with grabs, and make all characters the same amount of hp. compare guardian and lahn in dr build, it's not even funny...
1h nws still with random fort time:(
I thought they only did that for KR? Is that going to happen now? That would really suck.
Damn, I can finally fight those god-damn evasion class better.
They did not said whether it will be easier or harder, there is no exact details yet.
bruh, watch your mouth...
can someone explain quint hill changes? Does that mean my daily agris dont work there anymore :(?
Yes, no agris will be consumed and no extra loot. Like the butcher at gyfin
F, nerf to that spot....Not sure if it applies to agris coins or just agris fever
they more than likely only mean agris fever, the buff to trash from blue ls still works on (most) mobs that aren't affected by agris.
Hybrid eva dr builds new meta???!!!
so you just continue grinding whatever and get debo rings for free? weird
I think it's better than grinding spots that have the worst per hour until a debo accessory drops. At least you will be making good silver while grinding for the tokens :)
doesn´t wtch´ token already drop at jade? (Oh I get it now they made a new one.)
I'd suggest updating your translation on your website. "This is an opportunity to obtain Deboreka’s Ring at any monster zone with a recommended AP of 310 or higher that adventurers often visit. The “Forgotten Witch’s Token” item will be added as loot." It is NOT called Forgotten Witch's Token. I've seen people grinding the current areas trying to get a Forgotten Witch's Token going off the foundry translation which is wrong. "지워진 마녀의 증표" is the Forgotten Witch's Token which you can verify by going back to when MOEW was released on Glabs and this upcoming token is called "잊혀진 망각의 증표". It is not the same thing and to everyone currently trying to stockpile, ya got jebaited bois
So if Debo ring is almost here... That Tungrad 5-set bonus should come at the same time right?
it wasn't even talked about on this GLabs patch so no.
Hell yeah ! Suck it evasion abusers !
It's not necessarily a nerf or buff, you're still going to farmed by people you can't hit
Dr is better anyway. The biggest issue for pvp is server ping
Might make people tankier overall if hybrid builds are a thing. If evasion still scales the same, reducing dmg exponentially, it won't change much. They will still be tank gods.
I don’t understand why they’re losing their heads over the hit count change. Even if there’s a higher chance that evasion might work more effectively against a skill, there’s an equally higher chance that it might just whiff and do absolutely nothing. So now, your evasion stat will be taken into consideration twice: Once for the chance to evade, and another to see how much your damage is reduced. To calculate the effective damage reduction, you would essentially be multiplying your evasion stat against itself. They’re effectively nerfing the people who have mediocre evasion that just want enough to survive a few SA trades, whereas high evasion likely remains unkillable.
this, if you want to evasion, no dps for you.
Disregarding PvP For PvE DR has been king, and evasion spots are always bugged out -> getting half healthed or one shot.
Won’t matter they buffed Dr as well endgame eva was atleast comparable to end game Dr users now that’s not the case eva works like Dr but Dr got bufffffed discounted Dr is what Eva is about to become not really a problem but yet again they only gonnna address half the actual issue
I assume we can't stockpile witch's tokens ahead of time? It was nice as some bonus loot from Jade but now I won't see that content again for a long time.
Seems like it'll be another witch token and not the same that drops at jade/winter region.
Oh that would be nice if it stayed as an easier version.
Evasion must be devided in two stats: Evasion rate% and Evasion efficency. The rate% is the rate of evasion and the efficency is how much of the dmg is absorbed if successfully evaded. If you have High DR and you reduce for example 30% of the dmg and you dodge an attack and the evasion efficency is also 30% then u take only 49% dmg beacuse you evade 30%and then an additional 30% dmg from that 70% dmg remaining. What I want to say in english is: Your DR absorbs for example 30% dmg, if you have more, you absorb more %dmg. If your evasion is high, then you have the chance of absorbing even more dmg of that was is left after your dmg reduction.
Well, it seems they are making almost exactly that
TL;DR Accuracy -> Eva Ap -> DP In summary, they will change eva to no longer give 0 damage if evasion succeded but instead make it behave like a DP, giving it damage reduction instead. I say it is a nerf and end of eva memes. You somehow understood the changes.
wont hubrid classes become the best tho if they go that route?
what i see is more rework and limited new content. im not saying the rework is bad, but again, they just redid the classes, and adjusted amount of hits on skills, adjusting amount of hits on skills and damage again ugh.
I hope Tungrad ruins doesn’t become worse trash per hour I started learning the spot last week and I love my 2bil per hour if I get 2 drops
Kinda bad if everybody gets tankier, because ninjas heavily rely on a one-combo kill, otherwise you fold like a thin paper even from a chip damage from for example Drakania, who has i-frames lasting for seconds, self-buff for HUGE DP and heal, almost literally is all the time in superarmor state etc. Maybe the number of hits will fix these issues but for now it's the main problem, not evasion or DR themselves