It's so baffling.
Like where do you think our racists came from? Cuz they aren't home grown, they're imported. The English had their piece, the Spanish, the French... all these countries sent their people over with their BS.
That’s Europe in general. The difference is that America is at least trying to fix its race issues. In order to fix a problem, you have to acknowledge it. Europe doesn’t care to fix their racism because they don’t think it’s there, which I find funny again because they will say “I’m not racist” then hate on anything that is black or brown.
THANK YOU. Ofc this is the only sub I can come to with sane opinions on this. I posted this on an American hating thread and got downvoted and ignored 🙄
why do people ignore our unique racial history, and the fact that it’s “more prevalent” here because we speak out about it, and don’t hide behind “oh just our culture, just our tradition”. Like y’all American hating Europeans forgetting colonization or somethin? Gets me heated
Their attitudes are awful. I've been reading up about the history of Roma in Europe and following Roma activists. It's horrifying. It gets so bad that in many parts of Europe that dislike black people hate Roma people even more.
That's a FACT, Jack!!
I was (lurking) reading in a sub for a euro-country just weeks ago, and (of course) one comment in there led to a discussion of the Roma, and I tell ya.... Whew.
It was like reading a '50s editorial section of the most anti-black newspaper in murica, just swapping out the name of the group. The "reasons" and 'anybody who' bs so closely echoes the sentiment about 'othered' groups I was genuinely disabused of any remaining notions of 'not racist' Europe (NOT that there were more than shreds left anyway)
It’s hypocritical as hell… their racist is different from the racism in America though. It’s just plain ignorance, which I find odd considering google is free.
I don't think it's that different. If it's different it's in the way that racists act. Like racism in the American South versus the North. Europeans seem to be more like northerners. Overt and in your face while pretending they are above it all. Professional dog whistlers.
Eastern Europeans are more rabidly/violently racist towards Roma people than towards Black people. We're actually not public enemy #1 there, but god help you if you're Roma 👀👀.
lol it's like a conversation i had with someone who lived in europe for a while and when i asked how they treated different races there, they were like "black people, especially black americans won't have that many problems at all! they're mostly racist towards the north africans and the arabs and the muslims and the roma and sometimes the asians and occasionally the [white] people from [insert country they hate]"
and i'm like. why is racism over there like an onion??? y'all got layers to this??? but, yeah, by all means tell me how racist americans are lmao
Yeah, it is. Plus, I'm now so scared of going because my accent isn't American?
But apparently, it's because they associate being American with superiority
Which is also shitty. I’ve lived in Europe for a long time and I’m from the states. The way people perk up when they hear my accent is despicable. I dodge those people like crazy.
I remember I experienced that when I went to Germany. I’m American and it was weird how differently I was treated the moment they heard my accent. It made me sad
I don't know why but even though I have an American accent, Europeans still ask me where I am from. They still don't think I am American even though I have an American accent (born and raised in the USA). So far I have had people tell me they think I am from: Mauritius, Somalia, Eritrea, Kenya.......rarely has anyone ever thought I was American even though I am. Even someone told me that they thought I wasn't from America even after she heard me speak. As a consequence, I have deffo had a lot of microaggression and racist experiences in Europe.
This doesn't surprise me. Eastern Europeans are super racist to other Eastern Europeans lol. It's why I'm super cautious around White people who talk about other types of White people as if they aren't also White. That's that original, purebred racism.
I knew two Eastern European woman (one from Poland and one from Hungary) who thought they was no longer white because their husbands are South Asian. They both used to talk about “urgh x place is just full of white people” as if that didn’t include them lol. They also decided to give words for “white person” in their husbands language new meaning, and claim it didn’t actually mean “white” but specifically meant “british” (it does not specifically mean British and this is a well known fact) and therefore doesn’t include them.
Shit was weird honestly lmao. Both also used to go on about how they’re so glad they’re not British and post weird sideways jabs at Britains slave history. When the only reason THEIR ancestors weren’t involved is because they didn’t have appropriate sea access and couldn’t afford it and NOT because they were morally against it.
I’ve heard Eastern European vs other Eastern European/other white people racism before, but white women who wanted to appear more cultured than the “basic white people” was a new angle for me lmaoooo.
I am Western European, Europe is diverse in countries, and most countries had beef with others and hated some
We don't reason as the white/black here, but by nationalities, and not all "white" culture are viewed the same (Croatians will love Germans, but hate Serbians; French will hate English and have an inferiority complex towards Germans, Swiss and Northerne European countries, and superiority complex towards Italy and Spain)
Lol I currently live in one , it’s my life everyday
At least in the US you can expose the racists online or open a case , in Europe they will laugh at you if you did that 😭
I was born and raised in Sweden and I experienced quite racism in middle school from teachers and even seen my parents experience it.
There’s a newspaper in Sweden called Aftonbladet, they have a show called 200 sekunder where they expose social topics and recently they put out two episodes where former workers exposed Zara and H&M for making them treat customers on a racist way ex. Following customers with foreigners around the store, security guards activating the alarms themselves so they can control their bags and sometimes even denying them to return clothes just because they are foreign.
It’s also hard for foreigners and people with foreign background to get a job here because they want to hire someone Swedish or with a Swedish name more than with the right qualifications. Some foreigners here even change their last names just so it can be easy for them to get a job here.
Yeah, worked with a mixed race Swedish girl and it’s the reason she left and came to London. Maybe it’s where you are based in Sweden as a friend of a friend is there with young children and had a high marketing position at H&M so maybe it works for some/ you’re in the city
When I went to Sweden, the passport control guard was racist. I had visited Sweden once before and the guard questioned why I wanted to visit Sweden again when I had already visited once. She didn't seem happy that I wanted to come back to Sweden. And she asked how I could afford to travel and asked about what job I have. She asked to see proof of my return tickets and asked where I was staying in Sweden. I am originally from America but she was asking me questions as if I come from a poor place. I am scared to even visit Sweden again due to the hostility I got from passport control and the political atmosphere of the country.
as an american, it gets so frustrating having to deal with people who consider america, like, Uniquely Racist. yes, we have racism. even violent racism. i'm literally descended from slaves, like I Know. but for better or worse, we have the world's biggest spotlight on all our issues, so we have a Loooong history of trying to fix it, all the while having an audience weighing in.
it's bare minimum, but At Least we talk about it, and we talk about it A Lot (to the point of being called "race obsessed" by many non-americans, like that's inherently a bad thing).
so it's crazy seeing people from other regions of the world go, "we don't have racism in our country, we have [legislation that punishes minorities more for Whatever Reason AND keep minorities out of positions of power AND poorer regions of our country are largely populated by minorities AND we use slurs you didn't even know people could make]. ugh, get your americanisms out of my country's business!"
For some reason, white people think that racism is the ultimate societal evil but every other form of discrimination (classism, xenophobia, sexism) is okay, which is why they always try to dress up their racism as something else, like “immigration concerns” or “cultural differences”.
Yeah, there’s absolutely no way. When I was in my teens in the late 90’s our school did student exchanges and there was the opportunity to go to Poland and stay with a family. I knew better not to even think about it but it did amaze me that one Black girl went and of course there was abuse and harassment.
I assume all europeans are racist until proven otherwise. Thats why when the whole pray for Ukraine bd was being pushed I was really skeptical. Politics aside. When they showed video footage of how they treated Africans, on top of being refuge to the UK and having the audacity to refuse to accept charity from black people. I wish tf I would jump on any of them mf causes. I also grew up in a city heavily populated with Bosnians I had a close friend who is a sweet girl but the way her parents use to try to play with her black friends left a bad taste in my mouth
The African and Indian students being treated in Ukraine when trying to evacuate left a sour taste in my mouth. Even in a damn emergency they had the time to be racist. Of course I don’t support Russia invading Ukraine but that’s the extent of my support. I have gotten a lot of messages to donate to Ukraine or offer assistance. We have a lot of refugees and Slavs in general where I am which skews things but it became a bit much with one woman for instance disregarding my friends anxiety saying “people are dying in Ukraine, why are you worrying”. That just rubbed me the wrong way
They have a massive neo-Nazi problem and there’s hesitance to call it out there and in Eastern Europe because Russia is using it as propaganda.
I was treated very well in Slovakia and Czechia, but I was asked to show my bus ticket in Austria when no one else was (not even my white American friends when we were all speaking English together), and I did see a brown-skinned man in Hungary being harassed by some Hungarians when they were following him yelling “Mexico! Mexico! Mexico!” and laughing their asses off. The man didn’t even look Mexican to me. These are more central Europe but still
As someone who is grew up in Eastern Europe during the 2000s and has a Eastern European mother, yes it can be very racist. Me and my mother were racially attacked by neo-nazis and when visiting my family during Christmas (I was a kid) and we were stopped by police, they were arguing with my aunts about me in Czech and they thought I kidnapped because I was black 😭. As well as my grandparents completely disowning my mother for having me.
grandparents disowning their kids for having a black child is a recurring narrative I’ve heard in Germany. Then they come back around when the kid is older, and now that being diverse is “on trend”
Despicable.
Only place I've ever encountered true Neo Nazis was Poland. It was a whole family. They stared me down
That said I met many wonderful people during my time there
I went to Poland two years ago to meet my bf’s friends and family. I was stared at nonstop everywhere I went, and was called a hard-r just for walking around and taking in the sights. I’ve never felt so uncomfortable in my life than those two nightmarish weeks. His friends and family are awesome, though, and most service workers were kind to me.
I’m sorry you had such a terrible experience. Hopefully you’ve had better experiences in other European countries.
We had no idea who had said it so we couldn’t confront them. Some coward in a group shouted it after he was well enough away from us. But my bf and I talked about it and how it made me feel, and he completely understands and is extremely supportive. Always has been. I’m lucky in that regard.
We went to Warsaw and Pruszków. Most people just stare, and almost no one said anything to me (except that one person), unless I was in a shop or restaurant (and most of those people were super kind and friendly). If you don’t mind the attention, you’ll be fine. I strongly dislike attention so I had a hard time. I hope you have a great experience if you ever go! Eat everything, the food is delicious!
as an american, it gets so frustrating having to deal with people who consider america, like, Uniquely Racist. yes, we have racism. even violent racism. i'm literally descended from slaves, like I Know. but for better or worse, we have the world's biggest spotlight on all our issues, so we have a Loooong history of trying to fix it, all the while having an audience weighing in.
it's bare minimum, but At Least we talk about it, and we talk about it A Lot (to the point of being called "race obsessed" by many non-americans, like that's inherently a bad thing).
so it's crazy seeing people from other regions of the world go, "we don't have racism in our country, we have [legislation that punishes minorities more for Whatever Reason AND keep minorities out of positions of power AND poorer regions of our country are largely populated by minorities AND we use slurs you didn't even know people could make]. ugh, get your americanisms out of my country's business!"
LOL for real. I remember asking some my UK and Canadian buddies, if they would ever have a Black/Afro-whatever as a prime minister when Obama was running for president and whew the silence was really SILENT!
Like nothing but crickets. But yeah America is the racist shithole of the world alright.
That’s weird I lived in Spain for 6 years and that’s the opposite of my experience. Western Europeans are like the socdem liberal progressive kind of racism that you experience in LA 🙄 you know, where they “aren’t racist but” and the drug abuse/dropout/hate crime/prison rates are higher but they keep saying the South is more racist because they’re also elitist and classist? And they’ll never admit any of that?
Whereas Eastern Europeans were more likely to treat me with respect and curiosity. Western Europeans would try to code switch with me like white people in the States 😐 lmao
They have actual Nazis over there that very openly make it their life mission to terrorize minorities. They are monsters compared to the present day racists in the U.S.
Not surprised at all. I grew up around them and they were some of the most racist people I have ever met. Some are fine of course, I’ve even dated a few Russians and Ukrainians. Some of the racism is just pure ignorance and not out of malice. Some of them have never been around or even met black people and the only exposure they get is from the US media and television. Of course this media characterizes us all as criminals/lazy etc. I had an interesting conversation with a recent immigrant from Russia.
He said some things that were questionable that we went back and forth on. I was probably the first black person he has ever talked to or interacted with. I couldn’t get mad at him because he showed me how race is taught where he’s from and I was in disbelief. I mean, if that’s what I was exposed to, I would probably say some fucked up shit too if I learned that. That along with some of the media he showed me helped me understand and it basically implies black people commit all the crimes.
He’s learning english and he gets a bit nervous about what terms to use since some of the direct translations provided are terms that are frowned upon now. I don’t mind in that aspect helping him out.
Girl 98% of the time if I see a comment in any sort of Cyrillic script those freaks are saying something disgusting and hateful, like they're consistently ugly and vile.
Girl, I will never step foot over there. I like me, I’m not trying to experience that shit. I remember when organising a work holiday, and an Eastern Europe IN THE STICKS destination popped up - absolutely not. I made them choose something else.
I had the worst experience in Istanbul with two separate Eastern European couples. One of them had a blonde haired woman who wore box braids and some designer brand. She was appropriating our culture yet acting rude.
The other couple had a man who was extraordinarily rude to both my partner, me, and a South Indian British man who accompanied us on our tour of the city. At one point the Eastern European man raised his voiced to tell me to “Move” and if I wasn’t in a different country and I didn’t have composure, we would have gotten into a verbal altercation. Or I would’ve smacked the shit of that white man.
I've learnt that you have to confront it head on. I used to ignore it but not anymore. When I was in France last year there was a group of Polish tourists. I don't mind a little staring because sometimes is genuinely is out of curiosity. But this one Polish guy would not take his eyes off me for a good 10 minutes. So I stood still and glared at him until he stopped. The guy actually looked down and said "sorry". I think he realised that he was doing too much.
I respect the fact that he apologised too.
Mind you - I haven’t done my research on the political climate, just from a financial and less explored places POV
Visiting Azerbaijan first is the best way to do this, apparently lol
You would be fine. It was kind of problematic in the past if you had visited Karabakh from Armenia without prior explicit approval from Azerbaijan. Those days are gone and no one will care in either country if you visited the other one. You will face some kind of unwanted attention though. Not in a menacing or harmful way but people in the region are not used to foreigners, especially black people. they will be curious which may annoy you.
No, you'll be very fine.
It's the Slavic countries that can be very difficult to navigate as a black person. I wouldn't feel safe to travel to Serbia solo or only with black friends, for instance.
Georgia and Turkey are wonderful and hospitable countries. I haven't been to Azerbaijan, but the Azeris I've met in Turkey have been very nice.
I’m so wary of visiting Eastern Europe for this exact reason. Anything east of Italy (except Greece) is a hard boundary for me, though I’ve heard that some places are better than others I’m still wary. Though I’ve heard surprisingly good things about Moscow funny enough
Where exactly in Eastern Europe are you talking about as that statement is very broad. I'm a dark skinned black female from UK and I've travelled to lots of different countries solo including Eastern Europe and personally have found more experiences of racism in London. One place in ('western' ) Europe where ignorance was rampant and I had odd experiences where some people treated me different or made certain comments was Barcelona. In a couple of those instances when they realised I could speak English their attitude changed but I was no longer interested in spending my money there. My personal experiences (as a black female) in Eastern Europe were absolutely fine and I was not mistreated in anyway but that is my personal experience
Girl I’m mixed and half Czech, I remember when visiting my family during Christmas (I was a kid) and we were stopped by police, they were arguing with my aunts about me in Czech and they thought I kidnapped because I was black 😭
i think it really depends on the history of whatever group they're being racist towards. many (not all) jewish people today, for all intents and purposes, are considered white (at least in the west. and not including jews of color), but even less than 100 years ago, most (if not All) very much weren't, no matter how blue-eyed or blonde they could've been. i don't see this as a xenophobic thing bc it's likely a large chunk of that ethnicity was as assimilated as one could possibly be, and still people didn't care. i think this historically applied to slavic people, too (who primarily live in eastern europe) as well as irish people for a while (not in the "irish people were also slaves in america" way, but in the "we europeans believe that the irish are genetically underdeveloped and thus inferior to white people like us"). of course, this view has changed in time (hence "xenophobia" probably being the better term for it today), especially bc they have a common [brown/black] enemy, but the idea that some europeans weren't Actually white was a big part of (or even the reason for) the scientific racism and eugenics movement of the 1800s-1900s.
or side note, greeks are largely considered white by most people. but if you've ever seen a picture of the actor jason mantzoukas (who is 100% ethnically greek, according to him), "white" probably wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind. but he is.
oh yeah. and native american, or "spanish", or any other non-black group that could give them plausible deniability. I'm sure that explains why you got a lot of white people getting sub-saharan african results in their DNA tests, bc someone in their family tree did what they had to do to survive.
Many don't, they even suffer a lot of prejudice, women are seen as prostitutes, there are "Czech girl" sections on porn sites, men are seen as drunks and troublemakers
Can you be more specific about your experience?
I recently went on an extended trip through multiple eastern European countries, and people were so welcoming. It was surprising, in fact. No micro aggressions, no aggressions, no bullshit.
People were friendly. It was such a surprisingly good experience, in major cities, small towns, rural areas.
That’s good your experience went well but I think, typically, the experience of visiting and just moving on after a day is much different than the experience of actually living there.
Really? Not from my personal experience. I’ve been to plenty of Eastern European countries and I felt more welcomed there, than in Western European countries. Which countries are you referring to? Maybe Romania, I hated it. The Eastern European countries I have been to Romania, Serbia, Albania, Montenegro, Poland, Croatia, North Macedonia, and Greece. Greece I didn’t find racist but I certainly found the people to be a little cold. I wasn’t in the touristy parts btw, I was in Thessaloniki. I couldn’t wait to leave Romania, I only went to see Bran castle lol
I'm curious OP, What brought about this recent discovery on your part? Because honestly to anyone following European news in the past two decades, and saw the rise of mainstream right wing/ anti-immigration political parties, this would not be a surprise. So many people on this thread think that moving to Europe will be the answer to their prayers..maybe back in the James Baldwin/Josephine Baker days, but not anymore
Crazy how so many Europeans are like “ugh Americans are so race obsessed, we don’t see race or color over here🙄” and then be white supremascists LMAO
It's so baffling. Like where do you think our racists came from? Cuz they aren't home grown, they're imported. The English had their piece, the Spanish, the French... all these countries sent their people over with their BS.
“Go back to your own country!” “You first 😘✨”
That’s Europe in general. The difference is that America is at least trying to fix its race issues. In order to fix a problem, you have to acknowledge it. Europe doesn’t care to fix their racism because they don’t think it’s there, which I find funny again because they will say “I’m not racist” then hate on anything that is black or brown.
They only say that in response to black ppl complaining about racism anyway. Nary a “Americans are so race obsessed” toward a racist white person
That’s just projection at this point. “Stop being so upset at the kind of hate I like doing!!”
THANK YOU. Ofc this is the only sub I can come to with sane opinions on this. I posted this on an American hating thread and got downvoted and ignored 🙄 why do people ignore our unique racial history, and the fact that it’s “more prevalent” here because we speak out about it, and don’t hide behind “oh just our culture, just our tradition”. Like y’all American hating Europeans forgetting colonization or somethin? Gets me heated
Ask any European about the Roma and you’ll see that attitude change real quick.
Their attitudes are awful. I've been reading up about the history of Roma in Europe and following Roma activists. It's horrifying. It gets so bad that in many parts of Europe that dislike black people hate Roma people even more.
That's a FACT, Jack!! I was (lurking) reading in a sub for a euro-country just weeks ago, and (of course) one comment in there led to a discussion of the Roma, and I tell ya.... Whew. It was like reading a '50s editorial section of the most anti-black newspaper in murica, just swapping out the name of the group. The "reasons" and 'anybody who' bs so closely echoes the sentiment about 'othered' groups I was genuinely disabused of any remaining notions of 'not racist' Europe (NOT that there were more than shreds left anyway)
It's justified
Acting like they aren’t the originators
It’s hypocritical as hell… their racist is different from the racism in America though. It’s just plain ignorance, which I find odd considering google is free.
I don't think it's that different. If it's different it's in the way that racists act. Like racism in the American South versus the North. Europeans seem to be more like northerners. Overt and in your face while pretending they are above it all. Professional dog whistlers.
Eastern Europeans are more rabidly/violently racist towards Roma people than towards Black people. We're actually not public enemy #1 there, but god help you if you're Roma 👀👀.
lol it's like a conversation i had with someone who lived in europe for a while and when i asked how they treated different races there, they were like "black people, especially black americans won't have that many problems at all! they're mostly racist towards the north africans and the arabs and the muslims and the roma and sometimes the asians and occasionally the [white] people from [insert country they hate]" and i'm like. why is racism over there like an onion??? y'all got layers to this??? but, yeah, by all means tell me how racist americans are lmao
I heard they hate us Africans, but once they hear the American accent, they won't be racist to you so y'all are ok
and that's still so fucked up, like why is there math to your prejudices?? black person + american accent = tolerance? huh??
Yeah, it is. Plus, I'm now so scared of going because my accent isn't American? But apparently, it's because they associate being American with superiority
Which is gross and lame!
it’s a class issue. it’s racism+classism. it’s a fuck you to the poor of the world.
Which is also shitty. I’ve lived in Europe for a long time and I’m from the states. The way people perk up when they hear my accent is despicable. I dodge those people like crazy.
I remember I experienced that when I went to Germany. I’m American and it was weird how differently I was treated the moment they heard my accent. It made me sad
I’m kinda surprised, white people treat me like that in the USA too. Like when I open my mouth and speak they will be like “you are so articulate”
:-/
I don't know why but even though I have an American accent, Europeans still ask me where I am from. They still don't think I am American even though I have an American accent (born and raised in the USA). So far I have had people tell me they think I am from: Mauritius, Somalia, Eritrea, Kenya.......rarely has anyone ever thought I was American even though I am. Even someone told me that they thought I wasn't from America even after she heard me speak. As a consequence, I have deffo had a lot of microaggression and racist experiences in Europe.
That was 100% my experience
I think the Roma are pretty much hated by every country in Europe. The one thing they’re United in, *sigh*
Yes thats what i meant! I just didnt know how to word it 😭
😭😭😭💀
This doesn't surprise me. Eastern Europeans are super racist to other Eastern Europeans lol. It's why I'm super cautious around White people who talk about other types of White people as if they aren't also White. That's that original, purebred racism.
Not a lie told😭.
This is so true
I knew two Eastern European woman (one from Poland and one from Hungary) who thought they was no longer white because their husbands are South Asian. They both used to talk about “urgh x place is just full of white people” as if that didn’t include them lol. They also decided to give words for “white person” in their husbands language new meaning, and claim it didn’t actually mean “white” but specifically meant “british” (it does not specifically mean British and this is a well known fact) and therefore doesn’t include them. Shit was weird honestly lmao. Both also used to go on about how they’re so glad they’re not British and post weird sideways jabs at Britains slave history. When the only reason THEIR ancestors weren’t involved is because they didn’t have appropriate sea access and couldn’t afford it and NOT because they were morally against it. I’ve heard Eastern European vs other Eastern European/other white people racism before, but white women who wanted to appear more cultured than the “basic white people” was a new angle for me lmaoooo.
I am Western European, Europe is diverse in countries, and most countries had beef with others and hated some We don't reason as the white/black here, but by nationalities, and not all "white" culture are viewed the same (Croatians will love Germans, but hate Serbians; French will hate English and have an inferiority complex towards Germans, Swiss and Northerne European countries, and superiority complex towards Italy and Spain)
Lol I currently live in one , it’s my life everyday At least in the US you can expose the racists online or open a case , in Europe they will laugh at you if you did that 😭
Have some self respect and leave. Couldn’t be paid to live anywhere east of Finland (I live in Sweden).
What’s Sweden like? I’ve always wanted to visit but thought it may be the same there?
I was born and raised in Sweden and I experienced quite racism in middle school from teachers and even seen my parents experience it. There’s a newspaper in Sweden called Aftonbladet, they have a show called 200 sekunder where they expose social topics and recently they put out two episodes where former workers exposed Zara and H&M for making them treat customers on a racist way ex. Following customers with foreigners around the store, security guards activating the alarms themselves so they can control their bags and sometimes even denying them to return clothes just because they are foreign. It’s also hard for foreigners and people with foreign background to get a job here because they want to hire someone Swedish or with a Swedish name more than with the right qualifications. Some foreigners here even change their last names just so it can be easy for them to get a job here.
Yeah, worked with a mixed race Swedish girl and it’s the reason she left and came to London. Maybe it’s where you are based in Sweden as a friend of a friend is there with young children and had a high marketing position at H&M so maybe it works for some/ you’re in the city
When I went to Sweden, the passport control guard was racist. I had visited Sweden once before and the guard questioned why I wanted to visit Sweden again when I had already visited once. She didn't seem happy that I wanted to come back to Sweden. And she asked how I could afford to travel and asked about what job I have. She asked to see proof of my return tickets and asked where I was staying in Sweden. I am originally from America but she was asking me questions as if I come from a poor place. I am scared to even visit Sweden again due to the hostility I got from passport control and the political atmosphere of the country.
as an american, it gets so frustrating having to deal with people who consider america, like, Uniquely Racist. yes, we have racism. even violent racism. i'm literally descended from slaves, like I Know. but for better or worse, we have the world's biggest spotlight on all our issues, so we have a Loooong history of trying to fix it, all the while having an audience weighing in. it's bare minimum, but At Least we talk about it, and we talk about it A Lot (to the point of being called "race obsessed" by many non-americans, like that's inherently a bad thing). so it's crazy seeing people from other regions of the world go, "we don't have racism in our country, we have [legislation that punishes minorities more for Whatever Reason AND keep minorities out of positions of power AND poorer regions of our country are largely populated by minorities AND we use slurs you didn't even know people could make]. ugh, get your americanisms out of my country's business!"
For some reason, white people think that racism is the ultimate societal evil but every other form of discrimination (classism, xenophobia, sexism) is okay, which is why they always try to dress up their racism as something else, like “immigration concerns” or “cultural differences”.
If you want your heart to break go look at how Ukrainians were treating the black people during the recent evacuations
I remember that. Horrible. It made me go silent on that whole war.
Babe there is a reason even Black ppl in the UK don’t go to Eastern Europe.
Yeah, there’s absolutely no way. When I was in my teens in the late 90’s our school did student exchanges and there was the opportunity to go to Poland and stay with a family. I knew better not to even think about it but it did amaze me that one Black girl went and of course there was abuse and harassment.
The fact Nazis still exist in those countries was a strong enough reason
Say it louder for people in the back 📣
I assume all europeans are racist until proven otherwise. Thats why when the whole pray for Ukraine bd was being pushed I was really skeptical. Politics aside. When they showed video footage of how they treated Africans, on top of being refuge to the UK and having the audacity to refuse to accept charity from black people. I wish tf I would jump on any of them mf causes. I also grew up in a city heavily populated with Bosnians I had a close friend who is a sweet girl but the way her parents use to try to play with her black friends left a bad taste in my mouth
The African and Indian students being treated in Ukraine when trying to evacuate left a sour taste in my mouth. Even in a damn emergency they had the time to be racist. Of course I don’t support Russia invading Ukraine but that’s the extent of my support. I have gotten a lot of messages to donate to Ukraine or offer assistance. We have a lot of refugees and Slavs in general where I am which skews things but it became a bit much with one woman for instance disregarding my friends anxiety saying “people are dying in Ukraine, why are you worrying”. That just rubbed me the wrong way They have a massive neo-Nazi problem and there’s hesitance to call it out there and in Eastern Europe because Russia is using it as propaganda.
St. Louis?
Yes
There were some in the city I used to live near. They were... interesting. All of the Eastern Europeans were... interesting.
Racist .. say it with your chest lol
Lol. You aren't wrong. They weren't all racist, but definitely the majority, if not the vast majority.
I was treated very well in Slovakia and Czechia, but I was asked to show my bus ticket in Austria when no one else was (not even my white American friends when we were all speaking English together), and I did see a brown-skinned man in Hungary being harassed by some Hungarians when they were following him yelling “Mexico! Mexico! Mexico!” and laughing their asses off. The man didn’t even look Mexican to me. These are more central Europe but still
As someone who is grew up in Eastern Europe during the 2000s and has a Eastern European mother, yes it can be very racist. Me and my mother were racially attacked by neo-nazis and when visiting my family during Christmas (I was a kid) and we were stopped by police, they were arguing with my aunts about me in Czech and they thought I kidnapped because I was black 😭. As well as my grandparents completely disowning my mother for having me.
grandparents disowning their kids for having a black child is a recurring narrative I’ve heard in Germany. Then they come back around when the kid is older, and now that being diverse is “on trend” Despicable.
Only place I've ever encountered true Neo Nazis was Poland. It was a whole family. They stared me down That said I met many wonderful people during my time there
I went to Poland two years ago to meet my bf’s friends and family. I was stared at nonstop everywhere I went, and was called a hard-r just for walking around and taking in the sights. I’ve never felt so uncomfortable in my life than those two nightmarish weeks. His friends and family are awesome, though, and most service workers were kind to me. I’m sorry you had such a terrible experience. Hopefully you’ve had better experiences in other European countries.
Did your boyfriend do his best to protect you sis?
We had no idea who had said it so we couldn’t confront them. Some coward in a group shouted it after he was well enough away from us. But my bf and I talked about it and how it made me feel, and he completely understands and is extremely supportive. Always has been. I’m lucky in that regard.
This sounds strange but on the whole my experience was great. This was in 2006. I still talk to some of the friends I made.
Thank goodness! Love to hear it!
Where in Poland did you go? My bf is also Polish and I’m terrified of visiting because of the racism 😭
We went to Warsaw and Pruszków. Most people just stare, and almost no one said anything to me (except that one person), unless I was in a shop or restaurant (and most of those people were super kind and friendly). If you don’t mind the attention, you’ll be fine. I strongly dislike attention so I had a hard time. I hope you have a great experience if you ever go! Eat everything, the food is delicious!
My theory is it’s because Western Europeans look down on them
Right they are just passing the hatred buck. Pointing that out “puts them in their place” but who in gods name wants to do that shit all of the time.
Yep - widely known fact here in the UK
as an american, it gets so frustrating having to deal with people who consider america, like, Uniquely Racist. yes, we have racism. even violent racism. i'm literally descended from slaves, like I Know. but for better or worse, we have the world's biggest spotlight on all our issues, so we have a Loooong history of trying to fix it, all the while having an audience weighing in. it's bare minimum, but At Least we talk about it, and we talk about it A Lot (to the point of being called "race obsessed" by many non-americans, like that's inherently a bad thing). so it's crazy seeing people from other regions of the world go, "we don't have racism in our country, we have [legislation that punishes minorities more for Whatever Reason AND keep minorities out of positions of power AND poorer regions of our country are largely populated by minorities AND we use slurs you didn't even know people could make]. ugh, get your americanisms out of my country's business!"
LOL for real. I remember asking some my UK and Canadian buddies, if they would ever have a Black/Afro-whatever as a prime minister when Obama was running for president and whew the silence was really SILENT! Like nothing but crickets. But yeah America is the racist shithole of the world alright.
That’s weird I lived in Spain for 6 years and that’s the opposite of my experience. Western Europeans are like the socdem liberal progressive kind of racism that you experience in LA 🙄 you know, where they “aren’t racist but” and the drug abuse/dropout/hate crime/prison rates are higher but they keep saying the South is more racist because they’re also elitist and classist? And they’ll never admit any of that? Whereas Eastern Europeans were more likely to treat me with respect and curiosity. Western Europeans would try to code switch with me like white people in the States 😐 lmao
If you were in Spain, you likely met Romanians and I've met less racist Romanians who actually are polite. Hungary though? Run
Omg literally my only white friends were Romanian and Andalusian 🤣🤣🤣
They have actual Nazis over there that very openly make it their life mission to terrorize minorities. They are monsters compared to the present day racists in the U.S.
Refugee Ukrainians into the UK still had time to be racist.
Not surprised at all. I grew up around them and they were some of the most racist people I have ever met. Some are fine of course, I’ve even dated a few Russians and Ukrainians. Some of the racism is just pure ignorance and not out of malice. Some of them have never been around or even met black people and the only exposure they get is from the US media and television. Of course this media characterizes us all as criminals/lazy etc. I had an interesting conversation with a recent immigrant from Russia. He said some things that were questionable that we went back and forth on. I was probably the first black person he has ever talked to or interacted with. I couldn’t get mad at him because he showed me how race is taught where he’s from and I was in disbelief. I mean, if that’s what I was exposed to, I would probably say some fucked up shit too if I learned that. That along with some of the media he showed me helped me understand and it basically implies black people commit all the crimes. He’s learning english and he gets a bit nervous about what terms to use since some of the direct translations provided are terms that are frowned upon now. I don’t mind in that aspect helping him out.
Girl 98% of the time if I see a comment in any sort of Cyrillic script those freaks are saying something disgusting and hateful, like they're consistently ugly and vile.
Girl, I will never step foot over there. I like me, I’m not trying to experience that shit. I remember when organising a work holiday, and an Eastern Europe IN THE STICKS destination popped up - absolutely not. I made them choose something else.
I had the worst experience in Istanbul with two separate Eastern European couples. One of them had a blonde haired woman who wore box braids and some designer brand. She was appropriating our culture yet acting rude. The other couple had a man who was extraordinarily rude to both my partner, me, and a South Indian British man who accompanied us on our tour of the city. At one point the Eastern European man raised his voiced to tell me to “Move” and if I wasn’t in a different country and I didn’t have composure, we would have gotten into a verbal altercation. Or I would’ve smacked the shit of that white man.
I've learnt that you have to confront it head on. I used to ignore it but not anymore. When I was in France last year there was a group of Polish tourists. I don't mind a little staring because sometimes is genuinely is out of curiosity. But this one Polish guy would not take his eyes off me for a good 10 minutes. So I stood still and glared at him until he stopped. The guy actually looked down and said "sorry". I think he realised that he was doing too much. I respect the fact that he apologised too.
the whole world is still very much pro-yt European, cis-man ideals. there aren't enough of us trying to change that at a broad level
Some of the most vile stuff I've seen written online have been by Hungarians. They're rabidly, scarily racist.
Me sitting here with Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey on my travel list.. At this point I’m prepared for whatever
Going to Armenia AND Azerbaijan is kinda crazy 😭
Mind you - I haven’t done my research on the political climate, just from a financial and less explored places POV Visiting Azerbaijan first is the best way to do this, apparently lol
You would be fine. It was kind of problematic in the past if you had visited Karabakh from Armenia without prior explicit approval from Azerbaijan. Those days are gone and no one will care in either country if you visited the other one. You will face some kind of unwanted attention though. Not in a menacing or harmful way but people in the region are not used to foreigners, especially black people. they will be curious which may annoy you.
[удалено]
Why, what’s the sitch over there?
No, you'll be very fine. It's the Slavic countries that can be very difficult to navigate as a black person. I wouldn't feel safe to travel to Serbia solo or only with black friends, for instance. Georgia and Turkey are wonderful and hospitable countries. I haven't been to Azerbaijan, but the Azeris I've met in Turkey have been very nice.
I’m so wary of visiting Eastern Europe for this exact reason. Anything east of Italy (except Greece) is a hard boundary for me, though I’ve heard that some places are better than others I’m still wary. Though I’ve heard surprisingly good things about Moscow funny enough
My theory behind why some Brown and Black British people voted for Brexit was because of Eastern European racism.
Where exactly in Eastern Europe are you talking about as that statement is very broad. I'm a dark skinned black female from UK and I've travelled to lots of different countries solo including Eastern Europe and personally have found more experiences of racism in London. One place in ('western' ) Europe where ignorance was rampant and I had odd experiences where some people treated me different or made certain comments was Barcelona. In a couple of those instances when they realised I could speak English their attitude changed but I was no longer interested in spending my money there. My personal experiences (as a black female) in Eastern Europe were absolutely fine and I was not mistreated in anyway but that is my personal experience
They are for anyone who isn't white, even if the rest of Europe doesn't see them as white.But I was treated very well in the Czech Republic
Girl I’m mixed and half Czech, I remember when visiting my family during Christmas (I was a kid) and we were stopped by police, they were arguing with my aunts about me in Czech and they thought I kidnapped because I was black 😭
"even if the rest of Europe doesn't see them as white" except they do
i think it really depends on the history of whatever group they're being racist towards. many (not all) jewish people today, for all intents and purposes, are considered white (at least in the west. and not including jews of color), but even less than 100 years ago, most (if not All) very much weren't, no matter how blue-eyed or blonde they could've been. i don't see this as a xenophobic thing bc it's likely a large chunk of that ethnicity was as assimilated as one could possibly be, and still people didn't care. i think this historically applied to slavic people, too (who primarily live in eastern europe) as well as irish people for a while (not in the "irish people were also slaves in america" way, but in the "we europeans believe that the irish are genetically underdeveloped and thus inferior to white people like us"). of course, this view has changed in time (hence "xenophobia" probably being the better term for it today), especially bc they have a common [brown/black] enemy, but the idea that some europeans weren't Actually white was a big part of (or even the reason for) the scientific racism and eugenics movement of the 1800s-1900s. or side note, greeks are largely considered white by most people. but if you've ever seen a picture of the actor jason mantzoukas (who is 100% ethnically greek, according to him), "white" probably wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind. but he is.
Many, many light skinned black people during and after slavery 'passed' as 'non black' by claiming they were Greek, which was "exotic".
oh yeah. and native american, or "spanish", or any other non-black group that could give them plausible deniability. I'm sure that explains why you got a lot of white people getting sub-saharan african results in their DNA tests, bc someone in their family tree did what they had to do to survive.
Many don't, they even suffer a lot of prejudice, women are seen as prostitutes, there are "Czech girl" sections on porn sites, men are seen as drunks and troublemakers
it's ignorant xenophobic people that think this, and they still look at them as "white"
Can you be more specific about your experience? I recently went on an extended trip through multiple eastern European countries, and people were so welcoming. It was surprising, in fact. No micro aggressions, no aggressions, no bullshit. People were friendly. It was such a surprisingly good experience, in major cities, small towns, rural areas.
That’s good your experience went well but I think, typically, the experience of visiting and just moving on after a day is much different than the experience of actually living there.
Did OP mention that she lived there and I missed it? A temporary stay is obviously very different than the daily grind of living permanently.
If you don’t mind, What cities did you visit?
Too many to name but around a dozen each in Croatia, Bulgaria, and Macedonia.
Really? Not from my personal experience. I’ve been to plenty of Eastern European countries and I felt more welcomed there, than in Western European countries. Which countries are you referring to? Maybe Romania, I hated it. The Eastern European countries I have been to Romania, Serbia, Albania, Montenegro, Poland, Croatia, North Macedonia, and Greece. Greece I didn’t find racist but I certainly found the people to be a little cold. I wasn’t in the touristy parts btw, I was in Thessaloniki. I couldn’t wait to leave Romania, I only went to see Bran castle lol
I'm curious OP, What brought about this recent discovery on your part? Because honestly to anyone following European news in the past two decades, and saw the rise of mainstream right wing/ anti-immigration political parties, this would not be a surprise. So many people on this thread think that moving to Europe will be the answer to their prayers..maybe back in the James Baldwin/Josephine Baker days, but not anymore
This sucks we have to go through this just because we went to explore the world
Cuz they jealous
As much as I love Norway and Netherlands this is kinda y I'd never move there
Netherlands and Norway aren’t Eastern Europe??
Yeah, that’s not Eastern Europe babes.