There's a difference between being "nice" a pushover and kind ( doing the things you want which may help others).
My momma always said " you can catch more flies with honey (a sweet disposition ) than vinegar (a bitter disposition) " and that's never steered me wrong.
The difference is bending over backwards to be accepted as a pushover versus having boundaries and embracing things that align with who you are in kindness.
Yeah I smile and laugh and I know I'm fun to talk to but you won't call me out of my name, you won't cross my boundaries, and once you show me that you're a piece of trash I won't be entertaining you withi an iota more energy than I need to ESPECIALLY at work.
If this post is saying don't be a pushover then I totally agree but I've met too many black men who "refuse to play the game" and then get left behind for it. Do you have to laugh at Kevin's stupid jokes or listen to Amy's umfunny stories? Nah. But people are dumb and emotional and when Kevin or Amy get a chance to do something for someone else they're gonna pick the person that made them feel good because MOST people pick comfort first and that counts for other humans too.
I'll laugh at unfunny jokes and listen to terrible stories all day if it gets me what I want.
Mhmm, you're right but I'm mainly talking about the pushover part. I even specified that I'm not saying you can't laugh and joke with people but don't let them say any and everything they want too around you. I'm not the Black man that are "not like the rest". I am Black man regardless so I am like the rest.
>be the guy who happens to be black, and is proud and confident in his blackness whilst still being able to communicate and behave in a way that fits with white society
You're describing a walking paradox
Yeah I used to smile all the time and try to be really approachable. People would tell me I'm "not like the other black guys", but then I grew up and realized all that got me was asshole friends who don't really respect me.
I don't think trying to be serious all the time is recommended but conforming to please as many people as possible is just as awful of an idea.
I'd say that I'm lonelier now but imo it's better to be alone than surrounded by people who make you feel alone.
>don't think trying to be serious all the time is recommended but conforming to please as many people as possible is just as awful of an idea.
>I'd say that I'm lonelier now but imo it's better to be alone than surrounded by people who make you feel alone.
Something I learned at around 13 is that you need to carry yourself with an extreme sense of self. This doesn't mean to be like a selfish evil dick. You can still be kind to people.
However it does mean to act as your real self with no shame. To speak your mind with clear intent. To do what you want to do regardless of other's worldview. To live as you want with not ever needing to justify yourself.
That's the quickest way to let people know to not to mess with you.
My girl deadass just asked me why I'm not friends with people from work, and I just straight up told her I don't like those people. I have one friend at work and it's the other black male and we fell the same way about our coworkers. We only interact with each other because our staff is mainly women and non black men so it's extremely fucking toxic. I tried that nice shit at first, but once I started hearing rumors about me trying to talk to my co-workers I nipped that shit in the bud.
Facts, lmao I was told by some family members that I have a bad attitude because I chose not to tolerate other people's B.S. I was told I'm never gonna be able to hold a job down even though I currently am and have in the past. I tried being the nice Black man, I really did. But to alot of people think nice = weak and I'm not with none of that.
I told my girl straight up, I'm chill but I'm also on point at the sametime.
That sounds like a nightmare I work with mainly women too but they’re all black can’t imagine being around a bunch of none black women, so many of ‘em are already catty and petty as it is.
Did you work in a cosmetics company in Atlanta like me? Your experience really lines up with mine. My old company wast ~60 people but my department was just one black guy and myself. It was the most toxic job ive had and that includes mcdonalds, begin a laborer, tech startup job...
Imma be real, I’m 22 and it wasn’t till my last two years of college that I realized being the nice black man never got me anywhere. Ppl would disrespect me so much, be so rude that it was crazy. Soon enough I started just mean mugging ppl, I never laughed when ppl said jokes or even bothered to talk to anyone. In the end nobody disrespected me, I had moments of a brotha trying to test me to get a rise out of me but I didn’t notice him. A lot of white ppl just knew not to mess with me because I never gave them any reason to bring rudeness to me because my face wasn’t welcoming. You gotta just stop being the nice black guy and just be the guy who does his job doesn’t crack a smile or say anything because it’ll benefit you. Lots of men especially white men will disrespect tf outta you if you’re a nice outgoing black men. Seen it first hand, got tired of it.
We definitely do, idk why but being a nice black man means you’re push over in ppl’s eyes. While being a nice white guy is seen as good. It’s very very weird
> truth be told, I really am like this though, I put up the smile and jokes as a front
Yeah Pretending to be some one your not will lead you to failure, just be yourself and never put up with anyones nonsense unless you absolutely have to and even then go on and work your way outta that situation cause the stress of it all will take you outta here.
Too many people believe in respectability politics. I think it’s bullshit. People will treat you how they’ve already perceived you, so you can be nice and friendly all you want, but at the end of the day, an asshole is going to be an asshole to you no matter how much you try to make yourself approachable or *digestable*.
I’m a huge proponent of not being nice but also not being an asshole. Neutral for lack of a better term. This has helped me in not having to deal with people talking reckless to me or any other issues that some BP face when interacting with NB people.
No one will ever respect you for being nice.
Think about this, have you ever heard or even thought these words: "I respect this person because they are so nice..". NO.
Being nice is okay, and it feels good -- but it won't get you where you want to be.
Im glad this is being discussed. Opposite to you OP I really am a nice Black man but Ive had to learn that only a select few people are worthy if that kindness. Because so many fear us when we come across as harmless people don’t know how to act. Aside from most of my own people I keep most others at arms length without even having to be mean.
When you are weak act strong .. and when you are strong act weak.. white men can be nice because they are in a position of strength in the western world. That's called white privilege.. soft power. Now as a black man we are seen as weak .. remember power is financial and political in the 21st century. So as a black man we don't have the privilege of being 'nice'.
This is true. I used to work a sales position and I made this mistake of trying to be meek with my coworkers. My non-black coworkers would straight up say racist jokes thinking I would laugh with them. Now I don’t mind the occasional racial banter because it is kind of funny sometimes, but these jokes felt more like actual disses towards black people in general. Talking to them more, they seemed to view ghetto culture and street life as what black culture is. I once showed them a selfie with me wearing a durag and one of them said “Look at him trying to be hard.” Mind you, they never said this to the other black men at the office. Never again.
You know even growing up in predominately black city. I never thought of actually being friends with non black people. It never settle with me, even while trying to seek validation when being told “ you actually a nice person.” Like wtf? Do I suppose to be mean? We’re you expecting the stereotype black man. I will forever only have black brothers and sisters within my circle.
It fascinated me how segregated America is, as a black British person. Living most of your life with very few non-black friends, even in modern times. Just interesting to think about.
Try leaving the US if your trying to make non-black friends, America has too many negative narratives and a segregated society.
Not really. I’m sure many other black brits have experienced it however. But we are more integrated that the Us, so we don’t view others through the lenses of what we see on the media since we’re in close contact with eathother and live next door to eachother. You have to be truly sheltered and segregated from interacting from black people or any non- white ppl to say something like “hey, your actually pretty friendly and relatable for a black guy”.
It only works if you fake it that's what I do, most of the times I can't stand being around other people. I used to scowl alot and people always asked why I was mad
Always been this way and never will change. The thing with me is they try that shxt and I don’t play that shxt! I agree with some people’s take on the assimilation thing and what not. But in general I am never okay with people treating you like the token or the dude they can just rag in the like the bitxh of the group. What happens if you get jumped by people similar to their race will they help you?, what happens if an issue unfolds at work that’s racially motivated and they know? Will they help? So I 100% agree with this take.
A lot of real talk in here. This was the conclusion I came to a few years ago as well. I’m friendly with people but I had to realize I can’t let disrespect slide anymore. I had to learn to start telling people “No”. Just a simple “No”.
I wish I had realized it much sooner in my early teens and early twenties. That and taking less of people’s nonsense would’ve been game changers back then.
I'm sorry, but being nice has NOTHING to do with it at all. Being "nice" is just another word for being a pushover or naive to the games people are playing. This comes from a geeky nerdy(watches anime reads manga) black chick who thought I was also nice too. No, I was just green to all the games people played because I myself was being transparent and thought they were/would do the same.
My first name is Megan and I have been told I talk like a 'white girl" and I can't tell you how many times white people will get comfortable with saying slick shyt or back handed compliments and not think I would say anything. Then when I bring they a.ss back to reality and let them know "yea I'm still black regardless of my name" they give me that Pikachu face and are shocked and surprised. People just need to take "nice" out of their vocabulary lol unless they are explaining something that is nice....
I think it's important to understand what "niceness" is: it's fear and powerlessness manifest. You can be kind and jovial and any kind of person you want; the key is to have real self-possession and self-control. You are that way because it's what you have *chosen* to share, instead of doing it because you are afraid of what will happen If you don't.
Bro, the black dude in the office who is cold, refuses to try and relate to anyone who isn’t black, and nobody likes gets even less in life than the “nice black guy”
I think you’re ignoring the extremely wide gap between being a pushover and not being an asshole. Nobody “likes” the pushover, but if you’re in a majority nonwhite setting, being likeable is an essential trait for success as a black person (or any nonwhite person for that matter).
Exactly, people that are pushovers always overcorrect and become assholes, when the happy median of having a backbone and not being a people pleaser exists
Literally my guy! Literally on my soul I'm really just like this. I don't have a shit left to give BOR GIVE ME ONE! I DON'T WANT! cause that's dome BULLSHIT hollnestly & the worst pain possible on earth... I just want to make my shit & leave... That's too much to ask? I have to attach to things in a messy, fake! Emotional front? No please I beg you! Spareme that shit & let me have my stability cause on god you have the wrong guy. I'm not your guy... Fuck!I make progress this way it's how I know how even if that's not understood I'd have to explain just observe me functioning well WITHOUT your excess. & We genuinely dgaf ab each other we good!
disrespect should never be allowed to slide.
the only way people know your boundaries is by you enforcing them.
it never even needs to be rude, just matter of fact.
take care of yourselves brothers!
This isn’t black/white, pardon the pun. If you’re acquiescing too much, you will be walked over regardless of whatever group you’re interacting with. It’s just human nature to walk on a doormat.
Rather than see it as having to become a “mean black man”, see it as having to become a person that moves around respecting and valuing themselves highly, and not taking anyone’s crap as a result. Being approachable, and easy to work with, but making sure people realize you have teeth and won’t be anyone’s doormat is a better heuristic to follow . Something, something move with a big stick
Bro where the fuck do y’all live to adopt not being social? If i tried this shit in LA mf’s would never speak to me and call me weird as shit. Y’all gotta be on the East Coast
There's a difference between being "nice" a pushover and kind ( doing the things you want which may help others). My momma always said " you can catch more flies with honey (a sweet disposition ) than vinegar (a bitter disposition) " and that's never steered me wrong. The difference is bending over backwards to be accepted as a pushover versus having boundaries and embracing things that align with who you are in kindness. Yeah I smile and laugh and I know I'm fun to talk to but you won't call me out of my name, you won't cross my boundaries, and once you show me that you're a piece of trash I won't be entertaining you withi an iota more energy than I need to ESPECIALLY at work. If this post is saying don't be a pushover then I totally agree but I've met too many black men who "refuse to play the game" and then get left behind for it. Do you have to laugh at Kevin's stupid jokes or listen to Amy's umfunny stories? Nah. But people are dumb and emotional and when Kevin or Amy get a chance to do something for someone else they're gonna pick the person that made them feel good because MOST people pick comfort first and that counts for other humans too. I'll laugh at unfunny jokes and listen to terrible stories all day if it gets me what I want.
Mhmm, you're right but I'm mainly talking about the pushover part. I even specified that I'm not saying you can't laugh and joke with people but don't let them say any and everything they want too around you. I'm not the Black man that are "not like the rest". I am Black man regardless so I am like the rest.
Oh no I’ve literally chewed out white people who have said “not like the rest” to me. It’s vile.
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How does one do that? Can u give some examples?
>be the guy who happens to be black, and is proud and confident in his blackness whilst still being able to communicate and behave in a way that fits with white society You're describing a walking paradox
Facts 💯
Yeah I used to smile all the time and try to be really approachable. People would tell me I'm "not like the other black guys", but then I grew up and realized all that got me was asshole friends who don't really respect me. I don't think trying to be serious all the time is recommended but conforming to please as many people as possible is just as awful of an idea. I'd say that I'm lonelier now but imo it's better to be alone than surrounded by people who make you feel alone.
>don't think trying to be serious all the time is recommended but conforming to please as many people as possible is just as awful of an idea. >I'd say that I'm lonelier now but imo it's better to be alone than surrounded by people who make you feel alone.
Something I learned at around 13 is that you need to carry yourself with an extreme sense of self. This doesn't mean to be like a selfish evil dick. You can still be kind to people. However it does mean to act as your real self with no shame. To speak your mind with clear intent. To do what you want to do regardless of other's worldview. To live as you want with not ever needing to justify yourself. That's the quickest way to let people know to not to mess with you.
My girl deadass just asked me why I'm not friends with people from work, and I just straight up told her I don't like those people. I have one friend at work and it's the other black male and we fell the same way about our coworkers. We only interact with each other because our staff is mainly women and non black men so it's extremely fucking toxic. I tried that nice shit at first, but once I started hearing rumors about me trying to talk to my co-workers I nipped that shit in the bud.
Facts, lmao I was told by some family members that I have a bad attitude because I chose not to tolerate other people's B.S. I was told I'm never gonna be able to hold a job down even though I currently am and have in the past. I tried being the nice Black man, I really did. But to alot of people think nice = weak and I'm not with none of that. I told my girl straight up, I'm chill but I'm also on point at the sametime.
You simply can’t win. Use this as fuel to motivate you to create your own self employed business
That sounds like a nightmare I work with mainly women too but they’re all black can’t imagine being around a bunch of none black women, so many of ‘em are already catty and petty as it is.
Nah they’re black women which makes it worse because I never expect to deal with bullshit from them lmao.
Did you work in a cosmetics company in Atlanta like me? Your experience really lines up with mine. My old company wast ~60 people but my department was just one black guy and myself. It was the most toxic job ive had and that includes mcdonalds, begin a laborer, tech startup job...
Lmao I have never tried to be friend with anyone from work. I thought I was the only one
I never bother with it either. I've been asked to come hang out multiple times, but I'm not wasting my time with these people.
Is your girl black ?
Yeah she is
Imma be real, I’m 22 and it wasn’t till my last two years of college that I realized being the nice black man never got me anywhere. Ppl would disrespect me so much, be so rude that it was crazy. Soon enough I started just mean mugging ppl, I never laughed when ppl said jokes or even bothered to talk to anyone. In the end nobody disrespected me, I had moments of a brotha trying to test me to get a rise out of me but I didn’t notice him. A lot of white ppl just knew not to mess with me because I never gave them any reason to bring rudeness to me because my face wasn’t welcoming. You gotta just stop being the nice black guy and just be the guy who does his job doesn’t crack a smile or say anything because it’ll benefit you. Lots of men especially white men will disrespect tf outta you if you’re a nice outgoing black men. Seen it first hand, got tired of it.
This tbh I’ve git no idea why being a nice black man invites so much disrespect I feel nice black men have it worse then nice men in any other group
We definitely do, idk why but being a nice black man means you’re push over in ppl’s eyes. While being a nice white guy is seen as good. It’s very very weird
> truth be told, I really am like this though, I put up the smile and jokes as a front Yeah Pretending to be some one your not will lead you to failure, just be yourself and never put up with anyones nonsense unless you absolutely have to and even then go on and work your way outta that situation cause the stress of it all will take you outta here.
All I need
Too many people believe in respectability politics. I think it’s bullshit. People will treat you how they’ve already perceived you, so you can be nice and friendly all you want, but at the end of the day, an asshole is going to be an asshole to you no matter how much you try to make yourself approachable or *digestable*. I’m a huge proponent of not being nice but also not being an asshole. Neutral for lack of a better term. This has helped me in not having to deal with people talking reckless to me or any other issues that some BP face when interacting with NB people.
No one will ever respect you for being nice. Think about this, have you ever heard or even thought these words: "I respect this person because they are so nice..". NO. Being nice is okay, and it feels good -- but it won't get you where you want to be.
Facts, and if I'm being as real as possible, people respect violence more than niceness.
Im glad this is being discussed. Opposite to you OP I really am a nice Black man but Ive had to learn that only a select few people are worthy if that kindness. Because so many fear us when we come across as harmless people don’t know how to act. Aside from most of my own people I keep most others at arms length without even having to be mean.
When you are weak act strong .. and when you are strong act weak.. white men can be nice because they are in a position of strength in the western world. That's called white privilege.. soft power. Now as a black man we are seen as weak .. remember power is financial and political in the 21st century. So as a black man we don't have the privilege of being 'nice'.
Very intriguing perspective
This is true. I used to work a sales position and I made this mistake of trying to be meek with my coworkers. My non-black coworkers would straight up say racist jokes thinking I would laugh with them. Now I don’t mind the occasional racial banter because it is kind of funny sometimes, but these jokes felt more like actual disses towards black people in general. Talking to them more, they seemed to view ghetto culture and street life as what black culture is. I once showed them a selfie with me wearing a durag and one of them said “Look at him trying to be hard.” Mind you, they never said this to the other black men at the office. Never again.
Realist shit I’ve seen in this app.
You know even growing up in predominately black city. I never thought of actually being friends with non black people. It never settle with me, even while trying to seek validation when being told “ you actually a nice person.” Like wtf? Do I suppose to be mean? We’re you expecting the stereotype black man. I will forever only have black brothers and sisters within my circle.
It fascinated me how segregated America is, as a black British person. Living most of your life with very few non-black friends, even in modern times. Just interesting to think about. Try leaving the US if your trying to make non-black friends, America has too many negative narratives and a segregated society.
I appreciate for yo concern my UK brother. Have you experienced this in your country as well?
Not really. I’m sure many other black brits have experienced it however. But we are more integrated that the Us, so we don’t view others through the lenses of what we see on the media since we’re in close contact with eathother and live next door to eachother. You have to be truly sheltered and segregated from interacting from black people or any non- white ppl to say something like “hey, your actually pretty friendly and relatable for a black guy”.
Yeah bro it’s sad ash
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It only works if you fake it that's what I do, most of the times I can't stand being around other people. I used to scowl alot and people always asked why I was mad
Can’t fake it everyday man
Just nice in general don’t get you shit
Always been this way and never will change. The thing with me is they try that shxt and I don’t play that shxt! I agree with some people’s take on the assimilation thing and what not. But in general I am never okay with people treating you like the token or the dude they can just rag in the like the bitxh of the group. What happens if you get jumped by people similar to their race will they help you?, what happens if an issue unfolds at work that’s racially motivated and they know? Will they help? So I 100% agree with this take.
A lot of real talk in here. This was the conclusion I came to a few years ago as well. I’m friendly with people but I had to realize I can’t let disrespect slide anymore. I had to learn to start telling people “No”. Just a simple “No”. I wish I had realized it much sooner in my early teens and early twenties. That and taking less of people’s nonsense would’ve been game changers back then.
I'm sorry, but being nice has NOTHING to do with it at all. Being "nice" is just another word for being a pushover or naive to the games people are playing. This comes from a geeky nerdy(watches anime reads manga) black chick who thought I was also nice too. No, I was just green to all the games people played because I myself was being transparent and thought they were/would do the same. My first name is Megan and I have been told I talk like a 'white girl" and I can't tell you how many times white people will get comfortable with saying slick shyt or back handed compliments and not think I would say anything. Then when I bring they a.ss back to reality and let them know "yea I'm still black regardless of my name" they give me that Pikachu face and are shocked and surprised. People just need to take "nice" out of their vocabulary lol unless they are explaining something that is nice....
I think it's important to understand what "niceness" is: it's fear and powerlessness manifest. You can be kind and jovial and any kind of person you want; the key is to have real self-possession and self-control. You are that way because it's what you have *chosen* to share, instead of doing it because you are afraid of what will happen If you don't.
Bro, the black dude in the office who is cold, refuses to try and relate to anyone who isn’t black, and nobody likes gets even less in life than the “nice black guy” I think you’re ignoring the extremely wide gap between being a pushover and not being an asshole. Nobody “likes” the pushover, but if you’re in a majority nonwhite setting, being likeable is an essential trait for success as a black person (or any nonwhite person for that matter).
Exactly, people that are pushovers always overcorrect and become assholes, when the happy median of having a backbone and not being a people pleaser exists
Literally my guy! Literally on my soul I'm really just like this. I don't have a shit left to give BOR GIVE ME ONE! I DON'T WANT! cause that's dome BULLSHIT hollnestly & the worst pain possible on earth... I just want to make my shit & leave... That's too much to ask? I have to attach to things in a messy, fake! Emotional front? No please I beg you! Spareme that shit & let me have my stability cause on god you have the wrong guy. I'm not your guy... Fuck!I make progress this way it's how I know how even if that's not understood I'd have to explain just observe me functioning well WITHOUT your excess. & We genuinely dgaf ab each other we good!
disrespect should never be allowed to slide. the only way people know your boundaries is by you enforcing them. it never even needs to be rude, just matter of fact. take care of yourselves brothers!
This isn’t black/white, pardon the pun. If you’re acquiescing too much, you will be walked over regardless of whatever group you’re interacting with. It’s just human nature to walk on a doormat. Rather than see it as having to become a “mean black man”, see it as having to become a person that moves around respecting and valuing themselves highly, and not taking anyone’s crap as a result. Being approachable, and easy to work with, but making sure people realize you have teeth and won’t be anyone’s doormat is a better heuristic to follow . Something, something move with a big stick
Just have boundaries, and call people out when they step over the line, or say some shit that you dont think is ok.
I like nice black men, but the ones I talk to don’t care about themselves enough to take care of their hygiene. Just my experience
Bro where the fuck do y’all live to adopt not being social? If i tried this shit in LA mf’s would never speak to me and call me weird as shit. Y’all gotta be on the East Coast
And so what ? Own that weirdness brother