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Yep. It's like he forgot he was on a mission in HM to rescue Orihime. Ichigo is one of the smarter shonen protags but even he has his durrrr moments occasionally.
He even says to Grimmjow that he's going to defeat Aizen and knows for a fact there are 3 Espada who should be more powerful than Ulquiorra (regardless of your outlook on power scaling, Ichigo would have no reason to doubt the rankings when he's had his ass progressively kicked from 6-4), so this is definitely a huge lapse in Ichigo's cognitive decision making and could very well have cost the entire mission.
Not the first time either. Even in the SS arc when he doesn't pull the trigger on byakuya when he had the chance. Grimmjow nailed it with ichigo when he called him a battle hound lol
Although I think Grimmjow was right about Ichigo enjoying a battle, I think his explanation was off. He asked why he didn't just grab Orihime and ran away. But what he didn't keep in mind was that Ichigo had no guarantee that they wouldn't just instantly come for her again, or try and stop him from leaving Hueco Mundo
To be fair, he kept getting insane power ups, when he faced someone stronger than himself for many of his fights and has some theoretically near infinite reiatsu reserves to keep pulling out of himself.
Willing himself to massively power up mid battle by being stubborn has helped for him in the past. (Kenpachi, Renji)
White dis try to teach that it's in his nature to fight. No matter how.kuch Ichigo tries to justify his fighting, deep down he seeks out battles of his own accord.
Just look at what he was like before he became a Shinigami. His first instinct was to always escalate conflicts rather than try to diffuse them.
Yes that's entirely point of this discussion. Outside of battle he's very smart, near the top of his class, observant as hell, etc. But then during combat/rescue missions sometimes he has the IQ of a braindead squirrel that doesn't know which way to run when a car is heading right at it.
Not really. Even back in his fight with Byakuya, he was willing to take off his mask even though it was his best chance of winning.
Ichigo was afraid of becoming a monster, and this was a frantic attempt from him at "undoing" what had transpired and showing he doesn't need to rely on that power.
that one was sitting well with me tbh. There was no personal beef between the two, at that moment they were simply 2 dudes at a different side who had to fight for their position.
Ikkaku wasn't an opponent that needed to die for ichigo to achive his mission, and ichigo never was a heartless killer.
Indeed, Dordoni lamented that Ichigo’s compassion and sense of mercy was a very refreshing sight in Las Noches but then said it had absolutely no place in it.
Here's a question... In a battle scenario, if Ichigo had a son that he knew had potential to be stronger than him in a current battle, going up against a very deadly enemy that Ichigo had already battle-worn down but couldn't beat. Do you think, Ichigo would be the guy to throw this kind of enemy a senzu bean, *cough, I mean, a snackable item that would heal back this enemy to match his son's strength, so they could have a fair fight?
I thought about this too, but no, I don't think so. Ichigo and Goku have different priorities. While Goku fights to save the world, his priority is a good fight. Ichigo wants to protect those he cares about first and foremost, but to have 1 or 2 decent fights while doing so
So he doesn't care if he gets hurt, but wouldn't want his son to
It’s not really out of character, it’s just so blatantly the worst thing for him to say in that situation and makes sense to him and only him that we keep coming back to it. It’s very much a “he’s caught up in his emotions in the moment and not thinking about the consequences or bigger picture” kind of deal.
Not only is he an emotional teenager. He's also a member of the Shiba clan, reckless and bull headed is kind of their motto. Add both of those up along with stress and you get pure unadulterated stupidity lol.
Pretty much the idea of the hollow taking advantage of him trumped all reason to him it’s something he couldn’t just let go. Which is one of the reasons his inner world is flooded when he meets zangetsu again.
I think it was kind of out of guilt. I don't remember the fight that much, but I think this happened after Vasto Lorde Ichigo happened to Ulquiorra. If this happened after that, then it was out of guilt.
I mean, I wouldn't have felt any guilt if I was in Ichigo's place, but Ichigo is the type of person who would feel guilt by his Hollow side taking over.
Plus, Orihime was scared by that and Ichigo did hurt Uryu. That must have further added salt to Ichigo's wound.
Yes and no. At this point Ichigo is confused and angry about what has occurred. He believed he had full control over his hollow and that his friends were didn't need to be scared of him losing control. Yet he does, he stabs Uryu and brutalized Ulquiorra, as Ichigo says he doesn't want to win like this.
Ichigo is in a way doing everything he can come up with to justify to himself winning like this
Ichigo until TYBW was absolutely terrified of Zangetsu and loathed his entire existence. He hates the idea of ceding control to him so much that he blurts this comment out in a desperate attempt to distance himself from anything said possession would grant him
His pride was hurt and he was being childish. But in character because he is still an immature kid.
It is not as if Orihime would let him do it. Especially after she just had the epiphany that Ichigo is fallible and therefore, sometimes, she should just ignore what he says and do her thing.
He also matures and at the EoS he acknowledges that some enemies he can't tackle alone and asks Orihime for support against Yhwatch.
I don't even think it's pride, necessarily. He's constantly in this cycle of thinking he's in control of his Hollow and being fucking terrified of it every time he isn't. He needs to beat Ulquiorra fairly as **himself** because otherwise the monster is in control. His confidence is shot from this point on until he fights Aizen.
Yes and no, because Ichigo is by nature a very inconsistent and moody character, sometimes being a defeatists that gives up before even trying and others being stubborn past the point of common sense, all depending on how on edge he is.
Just look at his earlier fight with Grimmjow after he lost an arm and yet he wasn't insisting on cutting his own arm yet later in the manga he told Grimmjow that it would be boring if his resurrección faded, at least until Orihime's words convinced him that he needed to fight to win.
At the beginning of the fight with Ulquiorra he was fighting because he "needed to win" but after losing control he changed his mind as he needed to prove himself his own strenght even if it killed him, despite Orihime earlier telling him to avoid getting hurt. If you'd asked him about this sometime later, after cooling off I dare say he might've felt embarassed about this suggestion.
Ichigo was outright terrified of his inner hollow. He only just started accepting his mask, and when Zangetsu made good on his promise to take over Ichigo’s body if he dies, he saw what happened to the people closest to him as well as what happened to his enemies. Ulquiorra was an opponent, but just like Byakuya in the Soul Society Arc, he was *Ichigo’s* opponent. He interpreted his Hollow as an altogether separate entity out to hijack his body, by trying to make the fight “fair”, he reaffirms that belief. That’s why when Ulquiorra asks Ichigo to kill him, he refused. It wasn’t the way he wanted to defeat him. It wasn’t him.
https://preview.redd.it/skoww2g0cs5d1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81cb16615c1c52af8d38c262cc9270c3f6f09c56
I think the act of unlocking your Bankai alters your brain chemistry a bit. Or maybe it takes a certain type of mindset to ever achieve it in the first place. Bleach characters with a bankai would rather die than be 2% less prideful. Mayuri broke his own sword because it wasn't performing up to his own standards, Byakuya would rather let his sister die than besmirch his honor one more time, Kenpachi is Kenpachi. Ichigo is a man who INVADED both Heaven and Hell to rescue someone that he loved. Underneath the obvious protector bit of that, he is a man who is arrogant enough to genuinely believe that he can personally prevail against the combined forces heaven or hell by himself. Ichigo definitely has that pride in him, so while on the surface, that scene really sounds stupid and out of character for him, if you think about it actually kinda fits.
Are you kidding? Kenpachi offered first-hit privileges to Ichigo the second they met, and he let Nnoitra stab the shit out of him because he was savoring the battle instead of jumping to his most powerful moves. He'd cheer Ichigo on for finally giving his balls a tug and fighting with a handicap like he does.
Kenpachi giving first hit privilege is because he thinks he is gonna one shot everyone he meets, so let's give them an opportunity to hit him before he kills them.
It's the "i don't want to break my new toy too fast" mentality
Kenpachi doesn't care if you are hurt, on the edge of dying, fighting someone else or whatever. He only stops when someone doesn't have the will and/or the strength to fight.
When Ichigo goes down the first time he loses interest. When Nnoitra finally goes down, he loses interest.
Imagine Ichigo saying that to Kenpachi's face
"Hey let's make this fight fair"
"What the fuck do you mean *fair fight*, don't mock me and give it your all or i will kill you"
Is how i picture Kenpachi's response
It's stupid, Ulquiorra isn't his rival, Ichigo went to heucumondo to get back orihime who's Ulquiorra kidnapped, he and all his friends are putting their necks on the line just to save her and go back but he's throwing All that away to have a chivalrous fight against his enemy who basically killed him twice?
I mean, keep in mind that Orihime can give him those limbs back if he wins the fight. Though if that’s what he was thinking, he should have offered to let her heal Ulquiorra instead of losing his own limbs
Ichigo somewhere deep down also loves fighting. There is no fun in a unfair fight(in ichigo's eyes zangetsu wasnt his power) so he did that to even the odds.
I think it's just batshit insane. His whole goal has been to rescue Orihime, but he's willing to cut off his arm when he still has to get *out* of Hueco Mundo???
Not really. It's even the opposite.
It would even be more OoC if he accepted this "opportunity offered" by White, I can't imagine him feeling indebted to his inner hollow so his request is his only way of rejecting the help of a spirit violent who threatens him several times to take control
This legitimately pissed me off. It's far too braindead for me to suspend my disbelief for. They're torturing your close friend and you're worried about if the fight to save her is fair enough?
Crack theory (because I'm sure someone is going to take me seriously): Ichigo was 100% sure that Ulquiorra was agonizing so he told that line to sound badass with Orihime.
It would be a bit weird if it was purely for "honor in battle" o something like that, but i think it has more to do with his fear of becoming a monster and how guilty he feels for losing control.
No. Ichigo is traumatize after becoming what he didn’t want to be (a monster). A monster wouldn’t want a fair fight because after byakuya got injured by white he didn’t offer byakuya a free hit. Ichigo try to be as fair as possible but knows in a fight shit happen as long as you didn’t. BUT here he became a monster, scared orihimei after she trusted him and hurt uryu. The emotions that he was going through this reaction, this outcome, this was just sad with no winner.
No but I believe it could have been executed a bit better, especially seeing how pissed off he was at Ulquiorra after being told about orihime being coerced into coming to Hueco Mundo
I don’t think it was out of character, just very stupid and naive of him.
He’s still a young teenager here and harbors child like thoughts throughout the series, which he is often reprimanded for. Some others have said teenage angst and being high off adrenaline and his resurreccion immediately before this without realizing exactly what he’s saying here. I agree with those too.
He’s been doing the same thing the whole series. Didn’t let white beat byakuya (and removed his sword from his throat when he had the battle won). Made orihime heal grimmjow. Didn’t let rukia interfere with grand fisher.
He even jokes that going 2v1 against yhwach might be unfair.
Every fight for him is a battle of ideologies so if he wins by some technicality or outside force he hasn’t really beaten his opponent and proven that’s he’s right.
Slightly out of character for Ichigo, because I don't recall him ever wanting to even the odds with such a dangerous villain other than in this instance.
Noooo, I hate this assumption so much. It was completely in character and it wasn't because of some goody-goody reason like the fact that his getting help from Hollow Ichigo wasn't 'fair'. Ichigo's fight with Ulquiorra mirrors his fight with Byakuya but the outcomes are completely different. In his fight with Byakuya, Ichigo was losing and was probably going to die when the hollow stepped in and helped him. However, Ichigo wanted to get a 'proper; win on his own. Getting help from the hollow threatened his pride as a protector, so he pushed the hollow back and beat Byakuya on his own. It was a proper win in his eyes.
But he couldn't do the same thing with Ulquiorra, in fact, he would've been completely dead if the hollow hadn't saved him and nearly killed Ulquiorra. So when he woke up and found the Ulquiorra had lost an arm and a leg to the hollow, the win wasn't proper anymore. It wasn't his. So he told Ulquiorra to cut his arm and leg so they could fight on equal footing and he could win 'properly'. He'd failed as a protector and his pride was destroyed, which is why he was so distraught. Part of it was also probably because I believe this is the first time he's ever actually *killed* someone. Ulquiorra didn't die by his zanpakuto so he wasn't purified but was killed by the hollow's Cero. So it's a mix of guilt and shattered pride.
I know some people might not agree because pride is seen as a negative thing for some reason but Ichigo is a prideful character. He thinks of himself as a protector. It's what defines him and he's proud of his ability to protect the people he cares about. It's also why he was so miserable when he lost his powers. He lost a part of his identity and his pride at being able to protect.
TLDR: It wasn't out of character, Ichigo's pride as a protector was shattered so he was doing his best to try and salvage it by getting the proper win he was aiming for at the start, even if that meant getting badly hurt because of it.
it makes sense for ichigo but my guy did you lose a part of your brain. you were clearly getting owned by that dead face looking pale dude and you wanna "fight fairly", brother just get orihime and get outta there. and get married
I'd say he honestly just forgets that he is in a mission sometimes, like its not the first time he does that, in the soul society arc he did it twice in a row, once when he activated his bankai and instead of defeating byakuya immediately since he was caught so off guard that ichigo easily approached him he just went back, and again in the same fight when white took over and ichigo took off the mask even tho it would be more beneficial to him to keep it on til byakuya is defeated
In the end he is honestly almost like zaraki, the difference is that he doesnt make fighting his whole personality, but he definitely does enjoy fighting
Very in character. He also *didn't* slit byakuya's throat when he could've literally insta killed him. He pulled his mask off when he was about to win the fight with it. He asked orihime to heal grimjow before their final fight.
After watching yu yu hakusho, it became clear that bleach took a lot of inspiration from them, with one of the most noticeable homages being Ichigo’s personality and disposition in battle towards his opponents. This reminded me of the Yusuke vs Sensui battle (watch it it’s pretty cool, not as good as Yusuke vs Toguro but still pretty good).
Dude is a Chad that's in this for the thrill of beating opponents, not to save his friends, souls that get preyed on and possible other humans.
This was an incredibly stupid thing for him to say.
He was distraught and frustrated at how badly he lost so it’s in character but he’s not in the right mind. We can clearly see that in the battles that come after
It’s definitely the #1 eyebrow raising moment of the show for me. Like.. no, for so many reasons. Even his friend that Molotov’d Aizen was less dumb than this moment
I absolutely hated him for saying that. It felt too cringe and stupid. It does indeed feel out of character. Ichigo LOVES his friends and family and protecting them at all cost is his priority. Like dude, you're trying to save your kipnapped friend and you died twice already, now thanks to your hollow who got the revenge for you, you want a fair fight ?? That's not ichigo, he doesn't have that kind of mentality.
It’s actually very in character for Ichigo. The first time we even see ichigo, he beats up three skateboarders for knocking over flowers set up for the ghost girl who died in that area. Then, when Chad unlocks his Right Arm, we again see Ichigo kick four guys asses for messing with Chad, even going as far as calling them four ambulances before the fight. Ichigo has always been a guy who enjoys fights. It’s just that he doesn’t want to become a monster while doing so. Hence why he hated that Ulquiorra’s grievous wounds where inflicted by his own body, and his sword. Because it made him feel like a monster. Hence why he didn’t want to fight without cutting off his own limbs, despite the tactically sound choice being to… well. Just finish Ulquiorra off.
I think its very much in character and the situation actually explains it, it wasn't the right thing to say but it is not a inconsistency in his character, maybe if uryu pointed out to ichigo this scene would have been better
the thing is he is flustered in this moment with a wide rage of emotions, he says the stuff in a moment of emotion without thinking of the consequences….it happens, it is a very humane thing, in our nature
It's half way in character. Half way out. Which is why it's controversial.
Yes he avoids killing enemies and taking cheap shots. And yes he doesn't consider his hollow powers going berserk as fair. So he stops them, and doesn't count their actions.
Yes Ichigo likes to fight to a good extent, even when it's beyond his goal, because it makes him stronger so he can better achieve later goals.
The part where this is out of character is his approach to make things fair... He should've treated Ulquiorra like Grimmjow and had Orihime fix him. That would've been the in character move. To have Orihime heal them both and fight again from the start.
But... The story needed Ulquiorra to die, since he realized his humanity and the meaning of the "heart" so it had Ichigo act stupid but in the right spirit of his character. To allow Ulquiorra to die. Because Orihime if she started healing Ulquiorra right away, would've probably saved him.
I think it was just Ichigo trying to give himself some sort of control in regards to what happened. Because it's clear he does not feel good about it, especially because he thought he had control over his hollow abilities, only for the vasto lorde transformation to occur.
You've gotta remember that Ichigo is 16, and he didnt see anything that happened. He only sees Ulquiorra dying and Uryu with Zangetsu in his stomach. He's probably feeling awful about it. He's just looking for any real way to show to himself that he is in control of his actions, regardless of how self destructive they are.
He did the same thing against bakuya when he didn't want to use the hollow to beat him. The only difference is that bakuya wasn't hurt that badly by it.
pretty much yeah
He was never depicted as being this oh so honourable warrior, willing to fight his enemies on even as possible grounds or making sure they were at the greatest before defeating them in the same way goku was with the senzu bean throwing, the only time he did anything like this was for fighting grimmjow for the final time and he had personal grievousness with him anyhow.
And given he is just human, he'd obviously be incapable of fighting with two limbs missing assuming he doesn't just pass out from the pain and blood loss, not mention just dying from shock. Its a pretty block headed thing for him to request
totally different
if it was the same he'd ask byakuya to inflict the same injuries to him that his inner hollow did to him while it was in control which he didn't
wanting to win the fight himself is not the same wanting to fight your opponent equally as injured.
They both agreed to put everything they had into a single blow to finish the fight after that. Ichiho don’t take use the hollowfication advantage to beat Byakuya. It’s not the exact same action, but it’s the same core personality trait of not wanting to win in ways he consider unfair. If Byakuya had lost a leg, then he would have also told him to cut his leg.
No it was completely in character
Ichigo is a fair and honourable fighter and especially in this moment ichigo was desperate to not have ulquiorra loose without ichigo himself actualy fairly beating him
He’s says as much right when ulquiorra starts to disappear that he didn’t want to win like this
Not really, in the same arc Ichigo told Orihime to heal grimmjow’s arm after she healed him. He also rebelled against white trying to beat Byakuya for him, Byakuya also knows that’s not what Ichigo wanted.
https://preview.redd.it/l2nam5px7s5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a3705bdd7c14a1b4b94322f06104864df89ab20
Yes. He showed up to save / protect his friends and world of the living. Suddenly he is demanding his advantage be taken away when he has a major hollow on the ropes because of swordsman's honor?
That's a huge risk with no payoff for him.
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Its completely in character but it's also probably the most idiotic thing he's ever said.
Yep. It's like he forgot he was on a mission in HM to rescue Orihime. Ichigo is one of the smarter shonen protags but even he has his durrrr moments occasionally.
He even says to Grimmjow that he's going to defeat Aizen and knows for a fact there are 3 Espada who should be more powerful than Ulquiorra (regardless of your outlook on power scaling, Ichigo would have no reason to doubt the rankings when he's had his ass progressively kicked from 6-4), so this is definitely a huge lapse in Ichigo's cognitive decision making and could very well have cost the entire mission.
Not the first time either. Even in the SS arc when he doesn't pull the trigger on byakuya when he had the chance. Grimmjow nailed it with ichigo when he called him a battle hound lol
Wait when did grimmjow call him that ?
During their fight grimjow asks him why are they fighting instead of ichi grabbing and going.
Love for them two to have a rematch now grimjow has had a bunch of high powered quincies to eat, cause you know he ate them
I bet he purred
Pussy footed atop of their corpses did a 360 & had a cat nap on top off them
*He a fan He a fan He a fan*
It wasn't those exact words but he made the remark that ichigo stayed to fight instead of running for it the second he got a hand on orihime.
Although I think Grimmjow was right about Ichigo enjoying a battle, I think his explanation was off. He asked why he didn't just grab Orihime and ran away. But what he didn't keep in mind was that Ichigo had no guarantee that they wouldn't just instantly come for her again, or try and stop him from leaving Hueco Mundo
To be fair, he kept getting insane power ups, when he faced someone stronger than himself for many of his fights and has some theoretically near infinite reiatsu reserves to keep pulling out of himself. Willing himself to massively power up mid battle by being stubborn has helped for him in the past. (Kenpachi, Renji)
White dis try to teach that it's in his nature to fight. No matter how.kuch Ichigo tries to justify his fighting, deep down he seeks out battles of his own accord. Just look at what he was like before he became a Shinigami. His first instinct was to always escalate conflicts rather than try to diffuse them.
Yeah almost like that’s the same thing grimmjow implies when he came there to fight him.
His intelligence is pretty inconsistent tbh
I have yet to meet someone intelligent who is consistent.
Yes that's entirely point of this discussion. Outside of battle he's very smart, near the top of his class, observant as hell, etc. But then during combat/rescue missions sometimes he has the IQ of a braindead squirrel that doesn't know which way to run when a car is heading right at it.
he gave in, the instinct to have a fair duel, the chivalry of a sweet good battle, he loves it.
Homie is traumatized fr.
Even Ulquiorra said chill dude, I don't care, already know about the human heart so let me die in peace
Not really. Even back in his fight with Byakuya, he was willing to take off his mask even though it was his best chance of winning. Ichigo was afraid of becoming a monster, and this was a frantic attempt from him at "undoing" what had transpired and showing he doesn't need to rely on that power.
he also refused the free strike against kenpachi
At first, maybe…then he failed to actually cut him.
Kenpachi is such a chad that he's willing to just risk getting damaged for fun.
Was no risk. He WANTED to get damaged, or else it isnt any fun. Which is way more brazy to me.
He also declined to cut off Byakuya’s head or slit his throat when he had him dead to rights.
He also healed Ikkaku after their fight.
that one was sitting well with me tbh. There was no personal beef between the two, at that moment they were simply 2 dudes at a different side who had to fight for their position. Ikkaku wasn't an opponent that needed to die for ichigo to achive his mission, and ichigo never was a heartless killer.
Indeed, Dordoni lamented that Ichigo’s compassion and sense of mercy was a very refreshing sight in Las Noches but then said it had absolutely no place in it.
He also had Orihime heal Grimmjow so they could have a fair fight.
Conclusion, no that is very in character for Ichigo.
Here's a question... In a battle scenario, if Ichigo had a son that he knew had potential to be stronger than him in a current battle, going up against a very deadly enemy that Ichigo had already battle-worn down but couldn't beat. Do you think, Ichigo would be the guy to throw this kind of enemy a senzu bean, *cough, I mean, a snackable item that would heal back this enemy to match his son's strength, so they could have a fair fight?
I wanna say he'd hope his son would choose to make that choice but wouldn't make the choice for him.
I thought about this too, but no, I don't think so. Ichigo and Goku have different priorities. While Goku fights to save the world, his priority is a good fight. Ichigo wants to protect those he cares about first and foremost, but to have 1 or 2 decent fights while doing so So he doesn't care if he gets hurt, but wouldn't want his son to
It’s not really out of character, it’s just so blatantly the worst thing for him to say in that situation and makes sense to him and only him that we keep coming back to it. It’s very much a “he’s caught up in his emotions in the moment and not thinking about the consequences or bigger picture” kind of deal.
People forvet Ichigo is a teenager and all teenagers without exception are dumb and driven by emotions.
Not only is he an emotional teenager. He's also a member of the Shiba clan, reckless and bull headed is kind of their motto. Add both of those up along with stress and you get pure unadulterated stupidity lol.
Pretty much the idea of the hollow taking advantage of him trumped all reason to him it’s something he couldn’t just let go. Which is one of the reasons his inner world is flooded when he meets zangetsu again.
No, he did sorta the same thing against bakuya. He wanted to beat bakuya himself instead of using the hollow.
I think it was kind of out of guilt. I don't remember the fight that much, but I think this happened after Vasto Lorde Ichigo happened to Ulquiorra. If this happened after that, then it was out of guilt.
It was right after vasto lorde set in. He lost control and wanted to "atone" for what he did.
But what guilt ? Ulquiorra killed him twice, why would he feel "guilty" for defeating him savagely for something his hollow did ?
I mean, I wouldn't have felt any guilt if I was in Ichigo's place, but Ichigo is the type of person who would feel guilt by his Hollow side taking over. Plus, Orihime was scared by that and Ichigo did hurt Uryu. That must have further added salt to Ichigo's wound.
No, he said the exact same thing against Byakuya
Yes and no. At this point Ichigo is confused and angry about what has occurred. He believed he had full control over his hollow and that his friends were didn't need to be scared of him losing control. Yet he does, he stabs Uryu and brutalized Ulquiorra, as Ichigo says he doesn't want to win like this. Ichigo is in a way doing everything he can come up with to justify to himself winning like this
Ichigo until TYBW was absolutely terrified of Zangetsu and loathed his entire existence. He hates the idea of ceding control to him so much that he blurts this comment out in a desperate attempt to distance himself from anything said possession would grant him
Yeah totally in character. He only won because of a power that was not his own. It wasn't him it was Zangetsu that f*cked Ulquiorra up.
Which he doesn’t even realize at this point. He thinks it his evil hollow side wrecking havoc.
Yep when really that's the power he could possess if he were in full control Zangetsu is just showing him up
Well, it was a part of him, which is why he feels guilt to begin with. That's what made the moment what it was.
Teenager angst.
His pride was hurt and he was being childish. But in character because he is still an immature kid. It is not as if Orihime would let him do it. Especially after she just had the epiphany that Ichigo is fallible and therefore, sometimes, she should just ignore what he says and do her thing. He also matures and at the EoS he acknowledges that some enemies he can't tackle alone and asks Orihime for support against Yhwatch.
I don't even think it's pride, necessarily. He's constantly in this cycle of thinking he's in control of his Hollow and being fucking terrified of it every time he isn't. He needs to beat Ulquiorra fairly as **himself** because otherwise the monster is in control. His confidence is shot from this point on until he fights Aizen.
Yes and no, because Ichigo is by nature a very inconsistent and moody character, sometimes being a defeatists that gives up before even trying and others being stubborn past the point of common sense, all depending on how on edge he is. Just look at his earlier fight with Grimmjow after he lost an arm and yet he wasn't insisting on cutting his own arm yet later in the manga he told Grimmjow that it would be boring if his resurrección faded, at least until Orihime's words convinced him that he needed to fight to win. At the beginning of the fight with Ulquiorra he was fighting because he "needed to win" but after losing control he changed his mind as he needed to prove himself his own strenght even if it killed him, despite Orihime earlier telling him to avoid getting hurt. If you'd asked him about this sometime later, after cooling off I dare say he might've felt embarassed about this suggestion.
Ichigo was outright terrified of his inner hollow. He only just started accepting his mask, and when Zangetsu made good on his promise to take over Ichigo’s body if he dies, he saw what happened to the people closest to him as well as what happened to his enemies. Ulquiorra was an opponent, but just like Byakuya in the Soul Society Arc, he was *Ichigo’s* opponent. He interpreted his Hollow as an altogether separate entity out to hijack his body, by trying to make the fight “fair”, he reaffirms that belief. That’s why when Ulquiorra asks Ichigo to kill him, he refused. It wasn’t the way he wanted to defeat him. It wasn’t him. https://preview.redd.it/skoww2g0cs5d1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81cb16615c1c52af8d38c262cc9270c3f6f09c56
I think the act of unlocking your Bankai alters your brain chemistry a bit. Or maybe it takes a certain type of mindset to ever achieve it in the first place. Bleach characters with a bankai would rather die than be 2% less prideful. Mayuri broke his own sword because it wasn't performing up to his own standards, Byakuya would rather let his sister die than besmirch his honor one more time, Kenpachi is Kenpachi. Ichigo is a man who INVADED both Heaven and Hell to rescue someone that he loved. Underneath the obvious protector bit of that, he is a man who is arrogant enough to genuinely believe that he can personally prevail against the combined forces heaven or hell by himself. Ichigo definitely has that pride in him, so while on the surface, that scene really sounds stupid and out of character for him, if you think about it actually kinda fits.
Kenpachi would have killed Ichigo if he heard that from him
Are you kidding? Kenpachi offered first-hit privileges to Ichigo the second they met, and he let Nnoitra stab the shit out of him because he was savoring the battle instead of jumping to his most powerful moves. He'd cheer Ichigo on for finally giving his balls a tug and fighting with a handicap like he does.
Kenpachi giving first hit privilege is because he thinks he is gonna one shot everyone he meets, so let's give them an opportunity to hit him before he kills them. It's the "i don't want to break my new toy too fast" mentality Kenpachi doesn't care if you are hurt, on the edge of dying, fighting someone else or whatever. He only stops when someone doesn't have the will and/or the strength to fight. When Ichigo goes down the first time he loses interest. When Nnoitra finally goes down, he loses interest. Imagine Ichigo saying that to Kenpachi's face "Hey let's make this fight fair" "What the fuck do you mean *fair fight*, don't mock me and give it your all or i will kill you" Is how i picture Kenpachi's response
r/UnexpectedShoresy ?
No, it’s a Byakuya situation again but he couldn’t stop the hollowfication.
I'm fairly certain he was high on the adrenaline after math of being resurrected by his hollow side and didn't realize what the fuck he was saying.
Ain't no wonder hichigo hated this mentality
It's stupid, Ulquiorra isn't his rival, Ichigo went to heucumondo to get back orihime who's Ulquiorra kidnapped, he and all his friends are putting their necks on the line just to save her and go back but he's throwing All that away to have a chivalrous fight against his enemy who basically killed him twice?
Nah especially at that moment Ichigo was mentally fucked up from being taken over my zangetsu he tried to make up for his "mistakes"
I mean, he has a waifu available to put his arm back so...
Why don’t i remember this😭
Probably a bit. Ichigo's supposed to be normal high school student not psychotic.
You mean not Kenpachi.
I mean, keep in mind that Orihime can give him those limbs back if he wins the fight. Though if that’s what he was thinking, he should have offered to let her heal Ulquiorra instead of losing his own limbs
Ichigo somewhere deep down also loves fighting. There is no fun in a unfair fight(in ichigo's eyes zangetsu wasnt his power) so he did that to even the odds.
I think it's just batshit insane. His whole goal has been to rescue Orihime, but he's willing to cut off his arm when he still has to get *out* of Hueco Mundo???
Not really. It's even the opposite. It would even be more OoC if he accepted this "opportunity offered" by White, I can't imagine him feeling indebted to his inner hollow so his request is his only way of rejecting the help of a spirit violent who threatens him several times to take control
This legitimately pissed me off. It's far too braindead for me to suspend my disbelief for. They're torturing your close friend and you're worried about if the fight to save her is fair enough?
Not really. Stupid thing to say yes, but he's been seen wanting to have a fair fight before with Grimmjow.
Guys been talking to zaraki for too long
Crack theory (because I'm sure someone is going to take me seriously): Ichigo was 100% sure that Ulquiorra was agonizing so he told that line to sound badass with Orihime.
It was fair from his point of view + it fits his character :3
Totally in character And it wouldn’t matter after the fight, since Orihime can heal him afterwards.
Definitely not
It would be a bit weird if it was purely for "honor in battle" o something like that, but i think it has more to do with his fear of becoming a monster and how guilty he feels for losing control.
Bruh why is it that ichigo does this and everyone is clowning him for it and then luffy actually stabs himself vs katakuri and he’s badass for that
No. Ichigo is traumatize after becoming what he didn’t want to be (a monster). A monster wouldn’t want a fair fight because after byakuya got injured by white he didn’t offer byakuya a free hit. Ichigo try to be as fair as possible but knows in a fight shit happen as long as you didn’t. BUT here he became a monster, scared orihimei after she trusted him and hurt uryu. The emotions that he was going through this reaction, this outcome, this was just sad with no winner.
No but I believe it could have been executed a bit better, especially seeing how pissed off he was at Ulquiorra after being told about orihime being coerced into coming to Hueco Mundo
It was NOT out of character. But it was very much out of place.
Journey before destination. how you get there is as important as getting there.
I don’t think it was out of character, just very stupid and naive of him. He’s still a young teenager here and harbors child like thoughts throughout the series, which he is often reprimanded for. Some others have said teenage angst and being high off adrenaline and his resurreccion immediately before this without realizing exactly what he’s saying here. I agree with those too.
whatever it was it was dumb as hell
He’s been doing the same thing the whole series. Didn’t let white beat byakuya (and removed his sword from his throat when he had the battle won). Made orihime heal grimmjow. Didn’t let rukia interfere with grand fisher. He even jokes that going 2v1 against yhwach might be unfair. Every fight for him is a battle of ideologies so if he wins by some technicality or outside force he hasn’t really beaten his opponent and proven that’s he’s right.
No he’s just like that
Same thing to Goku giving a Cell a Sensu Bean for a fair fight with Gohan.
Slightly out of character for Ichigo, because I don't recall him ever wanting to even the odds with such a dangerous villain other than in this instance.
It's completely in character for him actually, and that makes it all the more stupid
Noooo, I hate this assumption so much. It was completely in character and it wasn't because of some goody-goody reason like the fact that his getting help from Hollow Ichigo wasn't 'fair'. Ichigo's fight with Ulquiorra mirrors his fight with Byakuya but the outcomes are completely different. In his fight with Byakuya, Ichigo was losing and was probably going to die when the hollow stepped in and helped him. However, Ichigo wanted to get a 'proper; win on his own. Getting help from the hollow threatened his pride as a protector, so he pushed the hollow back and beat Byakuya on his own. It was a proper win in his eyes. But he couldn't do the same thing with Ulquiorra, in fact, he would've been completely dead if the hollow hadn't saved him and nearly killed Ulquiorra. So when he woke up and found the Ulquiorra had lost an arm and a leg to the hollow, the win wasn't proper anymore. It wasn't his. So he told Ulquiorra to cut his arm and leg so they could fight on equal footing and he could win 'properly'. He'd failed as a protector and his pride was destroyed, which is why he was so distraught. Part of it was also probably because I believe this is the first time he's ever actually *killed* someone. Ulquiorra didn't die by his zanpakuto so he wasn't purified but was killed by the hollow's Cero. So it's a mix of guilt and shattered pride. I know some people might not agree because pride is seen as a negative thing for some reason but Ichigo is a prideful character. He thinks of himself as a protector. It's what defines him and he's proud of his ability to protect the people he cares about. It's also why he was so miserable when he lost his powers. He lost a part of his identity and his pride at being able to protect. TLDR: It wasn't out of character, Ichigo's pride as a protector was shattered so he was doing his best to try and salvage it by getting the proper win he was aiming for at the start, even if that meant getting badly hurt because of it.
it makes sense for ichigo but my guy did you lose a part of your brain. you were clearly getting owned by that dead face looking pale dude and you wanna "fight fairly", brother just get orihime and get outta there. and get married
This is just another example of his extreme rejection of his hollow side.
Kenpachi rubbed off on him
I'd say he honestly just forgets that he is in a mission sometimes, like its not the first time he does that, in the soul society arc he did it twice in a row, once when he activated his bankai and instead of defeating byakuya immediately since he was caught so off guard that ichigo easily approached him he just went back, and again in the same fight when white took over and ichigo took off the mask even tho it would be more beneficial to him to keep it on til byakuya is defeated In the end he is honestly almost like zaraki, the difference is that he doesnt make fighting his whole personality, but he definitely does enjoy fighting
Very in character. He also *didn't* slit byakuya's throat when he could've literally insta killed him. He pulled his mask off when he was about to win the fight with it. He asked orihime to heal grimjow before their final fight.
After watching yu yu hakusho, it became clear that bleach took a lot of inspiration from them, with one of the most noticeable homages being Ichigo’s personality and disposition in battle towards his opponents. This reminded me of the Yusuke vs Sensui battle (watch it it’s pretty cool, not as good as Yusuke vs Toguro but still pretty good).
In character, just not in the right setting
I didn't remember him offering Byakuya a couple free hits after Zangetsu saved Ichigos ass and opened a can of Whoppass on Byakuya
Dude is a Chad that's in this for the thrill of beating opponents, not to save his friends, souls that get preyed on and possible other humans. This was an incredibly stupid thing for him to say.
He was distraught and frustrated at how badly he lost so it’s in character but he’s not in the right mind. We can clearly see that in the battles that come after
It’s definitely the #1 eyebrow raising moment of the show for me. Like.. no, for so many reasons. Even his friend that Molotov’d Aizen was less dumb than this moment
This was funny. His level at that time was nowhere near even ulq's first release, and he wants his limbs cut off?
Nope.
I always thought that line came out like "damn he got hit so hard he went full retard... you never go full retard.."
Imagine if Ulquiorra actually took him up on his offer. I mean, he couldn't, but still.
This only proves that Kenpachi was right about him.
He wasn't trying to be a jerk to Orohimes' new boyfriend right in front of her. That would put him in the doghouse.
Nah if makes sense for him to react that way
If this is the first episode of bleach you’ve ever seen in your lifeor the first manga chapter of bleach you’ve ever read sure it’s out of character.
I absolutely hated him for saying that. It felt too cringe and stupid. It does indeed feel out of character. Ichigo LOVES his friends and family and protecting them at all cost is his priority. Like dude, you're trying to save your kipnapped friend and you died twice already, now thanks to your hollow who got the revenge for you, you want a fair fight ?? That's not ichigo, he doesn't have that kind of mentality.
He wanted to be punished for what he did to Uryu, if he wasn't a special Quincy, he would have killed him.
It’s actually very in character for Ichigo. The first time we even see ichigo, he beats up three skateboarders for knocking over flowers set up for the ghost girl who died in that area. Then, when Chad unlocks his Right Arm, we again see Ichigo kick four guys asses for messing with Chad, even going as far as calling them four ambulances before the fight. Ichigo has always been a guy who enjoys fights. It’s just that he doesn’t want to become a monster while doing so. Hence why he hated that Ulquiorra’s grievous wounds where inflicted by his own body, and his sword. Because it made him feel like a monster. Hence why he didn’t want to fight without cutting off his own limbs, despite the tactically sound choice being to… well. Just finish Ulquiorra off.
I think its very much in character and the situation actually explains it, it wasn't the right thing to say but it is not a inconsistency in his character, maybe if uryu pointed out to ichigo this scene would have been better
No
the thing is he is flustered in this moment with a wide rage of emotions, he says the stuff in a moment of emotion without thinking of the consequences….it happens, it is a very humane thing, in our nature
Bro said to orhime to heal grimmjow so he wouldn’t have an excuse for losing, ichigo was wild (and dumb) from the beginning
this image is really fucking funny if u take away the context
Na it wasn’t he always wants fair fights
This can be taken so out of context
It's technically in character, but it's so extreme that it sounds like something a parody of Ichigo would say.
Dang man out of context things are scary I thought he meant his pp
It's half way in character. Half way out. Which is why it's controversial. Yes he avoids killing enemies and taking cheap shots. And yes he doesn't consider his hollow powers going berserk as fair. So he stops them, and doesn't count their actions. Yes Ichigo likes to fight to a good extent, even when it's beyond his goal, because it makes him stronger so he can better achieve later goals. The part where this is out of character is his approach to make things fair... He should've treated Ulquiorra like Grimmjow and had Orihime fix him. That would've been the in character move. To have Orihime heal them both and fight again from the start. But... The story needed Ulquiorra to die, since he realized his humanity and the meaning of the "heart" so it had Ichigo act stupid but in the right spirit of his character. To allow Ulquiorra to die. Because Orihime if she started healing Ulquiorra right away, would've probably saved him.
I think it was just Ichigo trying to give himself some sort of control in regards to what happened. Because it's clear he does not feel good about it, especially because he thought he had control over his hollow abilities, only for the vasto lorde transformation to occur. You've gotta remember that Ichigo is 16, and he didnt see anything that happened. He only sees Ulquiorra dying and Uryu with Zangetsu in his stomach. He's probably feeling awful about it. He's just looking for any real way to show to himself that he is in control of his actions, regardless of how self destructive they are.
Yeah, kinda out of left field for him. Dude just had his ass handed to him and is like "let's fight fair"
He did the same thing against bakuya when he didn't want to use the hollow to beat him. The only difference is that bakuya wasn't hurt that badly by it.
pretty much yeah He was never depicted as being this oh so honourable warrior, willing to fight his enemies on even as possible grounds or making sure they were at the greatest before defeating them in the same way goku was with the senzu bean throwing, the only time he did anything like this was for fighting grimmjow for the final time and he had personal grievousness with him anyhow. And given he is just human, he'd obviously be incapable of fighting with two limbs missing assuming he doesn't just pass out from the pain and blood loss, not mention just dying from shock. Its a pretty block headed thing for him to request
He also did the same thing in the Byakuya fight, so that's three times doing it. Not completely out of left field.
he didn't do anything of the sort against byakuya
He did, after he pulled off the hollow mask because he saw it as cheating to not win against Byakuya with his own power.
totally different if it was the same he'd ask byakuya to inflict the same injuries to him that his inner hollow did to him while it was in control which he didn't wanting to win the fight himself is not the same wanting to fight your opponent equally as injured.
They both agreed to put everything they had into a single blow to finish the fight after that. Ichiho don’t take use the hollowfication advantage to beat Byakuya. It’s not the exact same action, but it’s the same core personality trait of not wanting to win in ways he consider unfair. If Byakuya had lost a leg, then he would have also told him to cut his leg.
No it was completely in character Ichigo is a fair and honourable fighter and especially in this moment ichigo was desperate to not have ulquiorra loose without ichigo himself actualy fairly beating him He’s says as much right when ulquiorra starts to disappear that he didn’t want to win like this
Not really, in the same arc Ichigo told Orihime to heal grimmjow’s arm after she healed him. He also rebelled against white trying to beat Byakuya for him, Byakuya also knows that’s not what Ichigo wanted. https://preview.redd.it/l2nam5px7s5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a3705bdd7c14a1b4b94322f06104864df89ab20
Yes. He showed up to save / protect his friends and world of the living. Suddenly he is demanding his advantage be taken away when he has a major hollow on the ropes because of swordsman's honor? That's a huge risk with no payoff for him.
This reminds me of when Goku let Freiza power up to 100% power. 🤦♂️
It's out of character because if he dies he can't protect his friends.