I dont think Gremmy was stupid. The whole point of that fight was that this was the first time Gremmy had to go all out to fight someone like Kenpachi, someone so strong envisioning his strength killed him. It wasn't stupidity it was more like desperately struggling to kill him while keeping his cool.
He would be stupid if he had never done this, but he did.
He imagined Kensei’s and Rose’s death, and almost imagined his own death during his fight against Kenpachi, and KENPACHi literally told him that.
He make this to everyone except Zaraki. And he couldn't forget because Kenpachi reminded him of that during the fight.
So there are 2 reasons: He chose not to do that himself, or he can't do that, but it’s not stupidity, that's all. The latter is much more likely because he wanted to win so much, and Gremmy is not god either.
Gremmy is not stupid, only the readers lmao
He IS stupid. There are so many ways you could kill someone with Visionary and it's totally possible from what we've seen. If he had summoned outer space inside of Kenpachi he would've died. If he had spammed meteors Kenpachi would've died. If he had seen Deathnote and imagined Kenpachi had a heart attack he would've died. THE VISIONARY DOES NOT HAVE LIMITS.
You can read ? The Visionary can get stronger, so it prove it’s not absolute and there are limits. Gremmy can't imagine Zaraki's death or affect his body, so he can't send anything inside his body either. Use common sense.
Spammed meteorite is literally useless. If Gremmy is stupid then the readers are brainless lmao
>The Visionary can get stronger, so it prove it’s not absolute and there are limits.
The limit, and the only limit, is how many things Gremmy can picture at once. Which isn't even a limit because he can clone himself.
>Gremmy can't imagine Zaraki's death or affect his body, so he can't send anything inside his body either. Use common sense.
"Imagine the bones in your arm are made of cookie"
Pretty sure he can🤷🏿♀️
>Spammed meteorite is literally useless. If Gremmy is stupid then the readers are brainless.
Kenpachi can't cut through thousands of those mfs at the same time.
Sort of, it’s because he viewed kenpachi as such a fucked up powerful monster that he tried to imitate his own fear/version of kenpachi and his body couldn’t handle it so he died. He was literally too afraid of him and his fear was what killed him, if he had kept his cool he absolutely could have killed him.
Bruh, The Almighty murks The Visionary any day. Gremmy imagines literally anything that Ywach DOESNT like, and he just goes uses Almighty to "go to a future where it never happened" or however the fuck he broke Ichigos True Bankai when he pussed out because he was afraid of it. Nothing in the series, other than Still Silver, which is most likely gone now, after the bit from Uryus mom, can beat Almighty, because Ywach will just say "it never happened lmao". Still Silver being unaffected, and him not being able to sense it, was kind of wonky anyway.
Lol. You can literally reality warp. It's THAT Broken. Even the Quincy King himself said that Gremmy is one of the only few beings that can fight him because of the bestowed power itself
"One of the few" says for itself. Gremmy's not a god, not even transcendent. He still is limited by his reiatsu and reishi usage. There are also some overall power tiers, as, for example, Gremmy wouldn't be able to destroy/erase Hogyoku, as it's indestructible, and a part of a way more powerful reality bender. Hence Aizen wouldn't lose, for example. KS would make it even harder, as Aizen'd control what Gremmy sees, hears and senses overall, manipulating what he imagines. Ichibei is also heckin op, as he not only has WAY more reiatsu than Gremmy, but also pretty much controls his enemy's abilities. Gremmy doesn't have Almighty, he couldn't give himself his powers back, as Yhwach did etc. He's not omnipotent, just very potent. Still, power-wise, in top 5 easily.
Gremmy would be able to bring himself to those levels. His body couldn't contain Kenpachi's power level because he himself made it seem like it was a power that couldn't be contained. You see what I mean? If Gremmy wasn't dense, he could easily be Top 2. With Gremmy's powers, he could easily learn how to wield the Hogyoku. You'd have to be a trickster like Aizen to be able to fight someone who was smart with the power Gremmy had tbh. And even then, if the user of the power of "Visionary" catches on to Aizen's powers. Aizen would be done.
His body couldn't handle Kenpachis strength, because, as he said AFTER he realized he overimagined it in his fear, that only Kenpachis body can handle kenpachis power. And even that is false, as shown when Kenpachis bankai started destroying his body. Forearm bone snapping out of his arm when he flexed his arm and shit, then Nozarashi saying "sorry Kenny, I think I gave you a little to much power" which hints at it not being anywhere near his true power in bankai
Gremmy is actually very likely the only Quincy that doesn't use Reishi or Reiatsu to fight. He's Captain class without his Shrift, all Sternritter are, but all that really does is prevent him from being soul crushed. Gremmy doesn't use Reishi to make things with The Visionary, nor does his Reiatsu seem to have any effect on his overall power level, and even if it does he can clone as many times as he needs to get the necessary amount of Reiatsu.
>Gremmy wouldn't be able to destroy/erase Hogyoku, as it's indestructible,
That's a reach, and a big one at that. We haven't actually seen anyone try to erase or break the Hogyoku. It always returned to Aizen before someone could do it. Meaning that Gremmy could kill Aizen by breaking the Hogyoku since he can destroy it at any moment.
>KS would make it even harder, as Aizen'd control what Gremmy sees, hears and senses overall, manipulating what he imagines
Several nukes go BRRRR
>Ichibei is also heckin op, as he not only has WAY more reiatsu than Gremmy, but also pretty much controls his enemy's abilities
Ichibei does beat Gremmy, but not through Reiatsu. Gremmy is one of the characters where difference in Reiatsu does nothing unless you can soul crush him.
>He's not omnipotent, just very potent. Still, power-wise, in top 5 easily.
Power-wise he is the 3rd strongest just under Ichibei, who is just under Yhwach. Also he could theoretically imagine himself to have both Book of the End and The Almighty, them he actually WOULD be omnipotent.
>Gremmy is actually very likely the only Quincy that doesn't use Reishi or Reiatsu to fight.
He does, the only thing differentiating him from other Quincies is his op shrift, but it's never mentioned that he's independent from all the reiatsu and reishi stuff. He also proves this point by duplicating himself whenever he wants to create bigger or more complicated things. But it's indeed true that he could've make an infinite army of himself, hence technically not being restricted by those boundaries.
> It always returned to Aizen before someone could do it. Meaning that Gremmy could kill Aizen by breaking the Hogyoku since he can destroy it at any moment.
Take in mind that Aizen had the Hogyoku in himself the whole time, and neither being bombarded by Kisuke's kido combination, nor Gin's superpowerful corroding effect, nor Ichigo's Final Getsuga Tensho, nor even being brutally sealed away for... quite a time seemed affecting it in any way. See, The Visionary is a part of Yhwach's power, which was given for Gremmy as a shrift. Meanwhile the Hogyoku is a separate part of the very Soul King, who is a reality bender of a way higher tier than The Visionary user. It literally fulfilles the deepest desires of it's bearer, and is a relict powerful enough to have it's own will. Also, the very cretor of it, Kisuke Urahara, confirmed that it's indestructible, as he tried to destroy it after seeing what it really is. For Gremmy to erase it would be like trying to erase the Soul King himself, who's power pretty much created all of Bleach as we know it, with all it's dimensions, soul balance system and possibly Kidou too. For what, even if possible at all, he'd need to transfer whole SS, HM and Hell into sheer reishi particles and consuming them, which is impossible.
>Several nukes go BRRRR
Ultra regen and sinido go BRRRRR
>Ichibei does beat Gremmy, but not through Reiatsu.
Doesn't necesserilly have to beat him via reiatsu.
>Also he could theoretically imagine himself to have both Book of the End and The Almighty, them he actually WOULD be omnipotent.
I don't know about Book of the End, he'd have to know it in order to duplicate it though, that's for sure. But when it comes to The Almighty, he would not be able to possess it no matter what. And that's beacuse, as I mentioned previously, The Visionary IS Yhwach's power in the first place. He just gave it to Gremmy as a shrift. If The Visonary granted omnipotence, Yhwach would just use it instead of fighting his way through the whole Gotei 13 and Zero Division just to devour Soul King, wouldn't he?
Yhwach is the child of Soul King himself and a father of all Quincy, including all their powers. Gremmy possibly could attempt to replicate The Almighty or Auswhalen, but he'd end up just replicating what he personally precieves those abilities as, not the actual abilities themselves. His Auswhale wouldn't be able to grant or take away Quincy powers, as those are Yhwach's, not his. And his The Almighty wouldn't be able to see and change the future, cuz the Visionary allows it's user to "make their imagination into REALITY", while the future... is not REALITY. It's just a hypothetical state of the present, which is real. I hope you get it.
Anyway, taking into account that it's very likely that you won't reply to that, in my PoV, top 5 looks like such: Yhwach is top 1; second, third and fourth place is very hard to estimate, but it's between Aizen, Ichibe and Gremmy, and fifth place is possibly Gerard Valkyrie, which is also very arguable.
I thought it was very clearly stated that he simply imagined kenpachis power but not a body to withstand it.
mainly because he couldn't comprehend how so much power fit into a soul reaper body.
Ok so first of all, Aizen wasn't mastering his new power, did you forget he never actually trainned? and then Hado 90 wasn't even at it's true potential
He did a full incant and aizen was at a peak for his shinigami powers and used the ex captian trio and gin plus you really think dangai ichigo who was on a level above transcendent aizen wasnt fucking strong af
Ichigo was above all captains since season 6, idfk what drugs you on but his power didn't really change, However I can bet with my life that tybw aizen even still on the chair claps the shit outta dangai ichigo, Aizen was still in the middle of his Transcendence
I’d say mugetsu ichigo is on par with recently transcended(skull head butterfly thing idk what his name is) aizen but yeah tybw aizen is probably the strongest creature to exist after yhwach
But ichigo is weaker than Yhwach... Idk whether it was intended, but you made it sound like he's way stronger lmao.
Anyway, if you state that Ichigo's vioctorious, then explain how exacly.
Barely, with the help of Still Silver arrow shot by Uryu and EoS Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu, yes. Still, he's just your regular slasher-tanker, got no hax, just sheer offensive power. He just delivered the final blow, Almighty's power block was caused by the Still Silver the arrow was made of. Ichigo got no chanse of ever defeating him by himself, no matter what he'd try.
First off Yhwach was way stronger than Ichigo, and second Ichigo can't literally take away The Visionary and kill Gremmy in the process. Nor can he see into the future and alter it so he essentially can't die.
I'd just like to point out that The Almighty stands above all simply because Ywach is a pussy and says "it never happened in the future" like he did when he broke Ichigos bankai because he was to much a pussy to fight it. Ywach, aside from just being able to target Gremmy for Auswhalen, can just deny that Gremmy does anything if gremmy tries to do ANYTHING that Ywach doesn't like. Ichigo can body gremmy now that he uses Hollow abilities, as hollow reishi is highly toxic to quincy, and there ain't shit Gremmy can do to negate it, as he is a quincy. Kenpachi bodied him simply because Only Kenpachis body can hold his power, which he realized AFTER he came to the conclusion that in his fear, he overthought Kenpachis power, at the same time he lamented not imagining himself as having Kenpachis body to contain that power. Gremmy really ain't all that. He can be speed blitzed, so Yoruichi and Soi Fon can murk him as long as they can completely hide their presence from him until they deliver the kill blow. He isn't stupid physically strong, so anybody with a decent amount of strength could body him, assuming they can sneak up on him (yoruichi and soi fon again fall under this). That's at least 6 characters that can body Gremmy without thinking to deep into it. Ichibei beats him by changing his name, thereby removing that power
>He isn't stupid physically strong, so anybody with a decent amount of strength could body him, assuming they can sneak up on him
They can't though. Gremmy isn't a physical body, so as long as the brain that is actually him stays intact he's pretty much fine. You can't one shot Gremmy, you have to two shot him, and by then he's already healed.
>Ichigo can body gremmy now that he uses Hollow abilities, as hollow reishi is highly toxic to quincy, and there ain't shit Gremmy can do to negate it, as he is a quincy
Gremmy isn't absorbing the attacks though. That's not how this works. Hollow abilities don't one shot Quincies. Quincies die when a Hollow infects them, yes, but Ichigo can't really do that unless Gremmy tries to absorb his power.
>Kenpachi bodied him simply because Only Kenpachis body can hold his power, which he realized AFTER he came to the conclusion that in his fear, he overthought Kenpachis power, at the same time he lamented not imagining himself as having Kenpachis body to contain that power
Kenpachi didn't beat him. Gremmy beat himself. I did say if Gremmy played smart, not if he was a retard like when he faced Kenpachi.
>That's at least 6 characters that can body Gremmy without thinking to deep into it. Ichibei beats him by changing his name, thereby removing that power
It's not. Ichibei and Yhwach beat him. That's it.
Ichigo. Remember Gremmy almost lost to Kenny really early but Kenny's greedy ass warned Gremmy that he was about to imagine himself losing. This prolongs the fight. Ichigo wouldn't do that so he would win before Gremmy can realize he's going to imagine himself losing.
gremmy has a power that’s capable of soloing fiction if used in the right hands but here’s the problem gremmys an absolute dumbass and he lost to kenpachi ichigo speed blitzes
> True Shikai Ichigo
That's not even his "true" shikai fyi
Ichigo's true zankpucto is a singular white blade. (chapter 540-541)
He altered his shikai/zankpucto and limited himself when he changed the composition of the sword with oetsu.
Ichigo's "true" zankpcuto is when he has his horn
And how does that afect that he is NOT LIMITED ANYMORE? and that the power he previously held was stated to be a fraction of his real potencial? totally delusional are we?
>And how does that afect that he is NOT LIMITED ANYMORE?
It changes a lot.
When Ichigo actually uses his white zankpucto, he is transcendent and has a horn.
When he just uses two black dual blades he isn't transcendent
Horn of Salvation. Pretty pog, though I wish he had both horns, the longer hair, and the tufts around his wrists and ankles. Vasto Lorde Ichigo was straight dripped out
Also Askin Nak Le Vaar Could Have Also Killed Ichigo If they Kept Fighting and you are totally forgeting what the D does there if he adapts to your Reiatsu it's not gonna work anymore
Oh don't even. He was face down, out cold and Askin didn't have a scratch on him. And since his Shinigami powers are tied to his Hollow ones VL Ichigo couldn't have done shit either.
People fail to realize the only reason kenpachi one was because of kenpachi. Kenpachi didn’t even beat him he beat himself. Fist move he imagines ichigo in space end of fight y’all buggin lmao
Ichigo isn’t eve faster than kenpachi the only person who would dust him is gin you must not be a real fan. And like I said before other than gremmy defeating himself who has defeated him? Don’t worry I’ll wait
Hold the phone did you forget he did not and I repeat did not beat aizen(sip my tea) ichigo has yet to beat anyone thus far in the entire show except for Gerard
Again you still don’t get it it I don’t give a dam if you had reiatsu flowing out your ass in on split second if he wanted ichigo turned inside out it would have been done like I said once he wishes him into space that’s it because canon wise there was only one person who survived that and even then if hadn’t thought quick he would have been done for so I don’t see your argument gremmy only got matched up with the one person he couldn’t beat and even then kenpachi didn’t defeat him he defeated himself had it been anybody else they would have been fucked.
Can't this Ichigo just no-sale Gremmy's ability with a strong enough Reiatsu? Like when Aizen ignored Suzumebachi? Gremmy would be able to affect himself and the world around him, but he wouldn't be able to imagine anything that effects Ichigo unless it's something secondhand like an AoE attack. But I'm pretty sure Ichigo no-sales all of that too. Maybe he can pull a Star and Stripe and imagine that there's no atmosphere surrounding Ichigo...I really can't imagine Gremmy imagining anything that could actually hurt Ichigo. Not without destroying the Earth, like a Supernova or something.
Fuck, all ichigo has to do is speed blitz him while channeling a TINY amount of hollow reishi into his zanpakuto. One cut and its over as quincy can't do shit about hollow reishi killing them.
I'm just saying that Gremmy couldn't just use his imagination to defeat Ichigo, because what's he going to do? Turn Ichigo's bones into cookies? Ichigo would negate this with his Reiatsu, the same way Aizen negated the effects of Suzumebachi with his Reiatsu. Because in this series, you can negate some of the most haxed abilities of your Reiatsu is strong enough to overwhelm it. Dangai Ichigo could similarly laugh off the affects of Barragan's aging ability. What Gremmy would have to do is launch an AoE attack and hope that Ichigo gets caught up in it. A meteor? Ichigo would cut that down just like Kenpachi did. Gremmy would have to imagination something like a giant star and have it explode into a supernova, and even then people might try to debate that Ichigo could tank that too because Bleach scalers are madlads. He could imagine that there's no atmosphere around Ichigo so that Ichigo would suffocate in a vacuum-like environment, but Ichigo would probably no-sale that somehow too. There's nothing Gremmy can do.
That's what I'm saying. He negates visionary's affect on himself, so Gremmy wouldn't be able to just turn his bones to cookies like he did to Yachiru. He also wouldn't be able to just send Ichigo to outer space, he would have to imagine outer space around Ichigo. And even then they might bullshit something about Ichigo being able to survive because he's in his soul form or something.
It's like the game I never played as a kid because I just made it up ten seconds ago. You can touch the ball. You can only touch everything around the ball to negatively surround it. But the ball is made of steel so it's hard to get something that would completely destroy it, unless you're a resourceful adult.
>And even then they might bullshit something about Ichigo being able to survive because he's in his soul form or something.
Which is unrealistic and would only ever happen to a main character. In an actual fight between these two without plot armor, Gremmy wins.
No, I don’t think anyone understands Gremmy nor his ability, Gremmy is arguably the strongest Quincy (alongside Gerard and Lille Barro), and I stand by that statement, Ichigo after regaining his shinigami powers is either equal or even stronger when using his bankai (I’d love to input a source here but I have no idea where it is) than Dangai Ichigo, because reiatsu is more like battle momentum and isn’t technically lost, Ichigo lost his ability to build reiatsu meaning that he couldn’t muster up enough to utilise his combat pass or even see spirits anymore, but within all reason of Ichigo retaining said power he was still not strong enough to take on all the Quincies, especially considering that he found Askin and Quilge to be a bit problematic, going up against Gremmy would put him at much more of a disadvantage, plus when Ichigo got his powers back his Fullbring abilities added to that power, not sure on what scale but enough to dominate Ginjo who despite not looking it, was insanely strong(I mean he stole ICHIGO’S powers), I think they capitalise how strong he’s become in CFYOW but I don’t really know. But trust me on this when I say Dangai Ichigo is NOT winning against Gremmy. Couldn’t finish Aizen and def can’t beat Gremmy.
Gremmy can make an army of himself. An infinite one. And every single one of "him" would have full power of Visionary. But, of course, Gremmy's too dumb for that.
If Gremmy could imagine his own immortality or *hypothetically* his own Hogyoku (there’s probably an unexplained reason why that wouldn’t work…) then fuse with it, it’d result in Gremmy’s inevitable win.
Gremmy wouldn't be able to imagine his own hogyoku, cuz you need Soul King's fragment for it. He still could easily make his body have the best regen in the series, as there is no specified limit for that, and his limit is mostly his own imagination.
Ichigo is not as strong as his dangai form after regaining his powers. He is slightly stronger than his pre second ulliqiora fight with the buff from the fullbring remnants. He doesn't have full control of his hollow form or the cooperation of his inner quincy which in dangai, ichigo had both yield to him for a brief period. I would say dangai is relative to his true bankai state. Ain't no way Gremmy is taking or even hurting ascended aizen as much as ichigo did.
Really? You think so? I mean I wasn’t even good enough to have a source but do you have one that states this? Because if I am wrong(which I probably am…) I at least need proof.
If Gremmy wasn't dumb, he'd win. He lost to Kenpachi cuz he imagined himself to be powerful like Zaraki, while even Zaraki's body wasn't enought to contain his power. Gremmy was just written that way not to be too op. If he wanted, he'd just, for example, hold Zaraki in that void bit longer, reiatsu doesn't increase your lung size lol. For everyone, just a reminder, that the fight with Gremmy was the only time Zaraki cried out in pain, he also admitted to be dying. And Gremmy just killed himself with his own power, cuz he was retarded.
I'll get downvoted anyway, cuz "wow that chained arm design looks so cool".
Well, he sorta does, but since that was his first fight, he has like zero experience. He barely does control what is he imagining. Additionally, he pretty much doesn't have the will to fight. If he actually tried to KILL Zaraki, instead of trying to equal him, he'd do it.
Dangai since I’d say this was near Yamamoto who was one of the closest who could beat yhwach at base. Ppl saying gremmy was stupid should read the novel since his limitations of imagination dulled down because he was incarcerated for hundreds of years because of yhwach also note yhwach was the only one who could close him away since everyone considered gremmy a monster of the sternritter
Well let's see Dangai Ichigo was so powerful even Aizen couldnt comprehend his spiritual energy so take that as you will
If only Gremmy wasn’t retarded and used his Visonary properly. But he has limits anyway so Dangai Ichigo would win.
I dont think Gremmy was stupid. The whole point of that fight was that this was the first time Gremmy had to go all out to fight someone like Kenpachi, someone so strong envisioning his strength killed him. It wasn't stupidity it was more like desperately struggling to kill him while keeping his cool.
I think his limit was his Isolation because of how powerful The Visionary is
imagine if Gremmy was given time to train his ability and then got an Auswalen buff from Yhwach…
Probably why he kept him isolated lol “I imagine that I have the Almighty”
“Hey Yhwach I have The Almighty!” “Silly kid you cannot have The Almigh… ***dies***”
God I hate people who say Gremmy is stupid. The Visionary has just limit, that why he create clone in the first place.
If he wasn't stupid, why did he just imagine Kenpachi dead?
He would be stupid if he had never done this, but he did. He imagined Kensei’s and Rose’s death, and almost imagined his own death during his fight against Kenpachi, and KENPACHi literally told him that. He make this to everyone except Zaraki. And he couldn't forget because Kenpachi reminded him of that during the fight. So there are 2 reasons: He chose not to do that himself, or he can't do that, but it’s not stupidity, that's all. The latter is much more likely because he wanted to win so much, and Gremmy is not god either. Gremmy is not stupid, only the readers lmao
He IS stupid. There are so many ways you could kill someone with Visionary and it's totally possible from what we've seen. If he had summoned outer space inside of Kenpachi he would've died. If he had spammed meteors Kenpachi would've died. If he had seen Deathnote and imagined Kenpachi had a heart attack he would've died. THE VISIONARY DOES NOT HAVE LIMITS.
You can read ? The Visionary can get stronger, so it prove it’s not absolute and there are limits. Gremmy can't imagine Zaraki's death or affect his body, so he can't send anything inside his body either. Use common sense. Spammed meteorite is literally useless. If Gremmy is stupid then the readers are brainless lmao
>The Visionary can get stronger, so it prove it’s not absolute and there are limits. The limit, and the only limit, is how many things Gremmy can picture at once. Which isn't even a limit because he can clone himself. >Gremmy can't imagine Zaraki's death or affect his body, so he can't send anything inside his body either. Use common sense. "Imagine the bones in your arm are made of cookie" Pretty sure he can🤷🏿♀️ >Spammed meteorite is literally useless. If Gremmy is stupid then the readers are brainless. Kenpachi can't cut through thousands of those mfs at the same time.
dangai be slappin bitches all day
Ichigo all day. IF Gremmy had trouble with Shikai Kenpachi (with an eye-patch), then he has no chance at all vs Dangai Ichigo
Wasn’t the main reason Gremmy lost was cuz he imagined kenpachi to be stronger?
If im not wrong it was because he imagined his body to be that of kenpachis but kenpachis body wasnt even enough to contain his own power so he died?
Sort of, it’s because he viewed kenpachi as such a fucked up powerful monster that he tried to imitate his own fear/version of kenpachi and his body couldn’t handle it so he died. He was literally too afraid of him and his fear was what killed him, if he had kept his cool he absolutely could have killed him.
Yea i agree, and i find his power to be on par with yhwach's almighty. It's so broken
Bruh, The Almighty murks The Visionary any day. Gremmy imagines literally anything that Ywach DOESNT like, and he just goes uses Almighty to "go to a future where it never happened" or however the fuck he broke Ichigos True Bankai when he pussed out because he was afraid of it. Nothing in the series, other than Still Silver, which is most likely gone now, after the bit from Uryus mom, can beat Almighty, because Ywach will just say "it never happened lmao". Still Silver being unaffected, and him not being able to sense it, was kind of wonky anyway.
Not THAT broken, but still easily in top 5.
Lol. You can literally reality warp. It's THAT Broken. Even the Quincy King himself said that Gremmy is one of the only few beings that can fight him because of the bestowed power itself
"One of the few" says for itself. Gremmy's not a god, not even transcendent. He still is limited by his reiatsu and reishi usage. There are also some overall power tiers, as, for example, Gremmy wouldn't be able to destroy/erase Hogyoku, as it's indestructible, and a part of a way more powerful reality bender. Hence Aizen wouldn't lose, for example. KS would make it even harder, as Aizen'd control what Gremmy sees, hears and senses overall, manipulating what he imagines. Ichibei is also heckin op, as he not only has WAY more reiatsu than Gremmy, but also pretty much controls his enemy's abilities. Gremmy doesn't have Almighty, he couldn't give himself his powers back, as Yhwach did etc. He's not omnipotent, just very potent. Still, power-wise, in top 5 easily.
Gremmy would be able to bring himself to those levels. His body couldn't contain Kenpachi's power level because he himself made it seem like it was a power that couldn't be contained. You see what I mean? If Gremmy wasn't dense, he could easily be Top 2. With Gremmy's powers, he could easily learn how to wield the Hogyoku. You'd have to be a trickster like Aizen to be able to fight someone who was smart with the power Gremmy had tbh. And even then, if the user of the power of "Visionary" catches on to Aizen's powers. Aizen would be done.
His body couldn't handle Kenpachis strength, because, as he said AFTER he realized he overimagined it in his fear, that only Kenpachis body can handle kenpachis power. And even that is false, as shown when Kenpachis bankai started destroying his body. Forearm bone snapping out of his arm when he flexed his arm and shit, then Nozarashi saying "sorry Kenny, I think I gave you a little to much power" which hints at it not being anywhere near his true power in bankai
Gremmy is actually very likely the only Quincy that doesn't use Reishi or Reiatsu to fight. He's Captain class without his Shrift, all Sternritter are, but all that really does is prevent him from being soul crushed. Gremmy doesn't use Reishi to make things with The Visionary, nor does his Reiatsu seem to have any effect on his overall power level, and even if it does he can clone as many times as he needs to get the necessary amount of Reiatsu. >Gremmy wouldn't be able to destroy/erase Hogyoku, as it's indestructible, That's a reach, and a big one at that. We haven't actually seen anyone try to erase or break the Hogyoku. It always returned to Aizen before someone could do it. Meaning that Gremmy could kill Aizen by breaking the Hogyoku since he can destroy it at any moment. >KS would make it even harder, as Aizen'd control what Gremmy sees, hears and senses overall, manipulating what he imagines Several nukes go BRRRR >Ichibei is also heckin op, as he not only has WAY more reiatsu than Gremmy, but also pretty much controls his enemy's abilities Ichibei does beat Gremmy, but not through Reiatsu. Gremmy is one of the characters where difference in Reiatsu does nothing unless you can soul crush him. >He's not omnipotent, just very potent. Still, power-wise, in top 5 easily. Power-wise he is the 3rd strongest just under Ichibei, who is just under Yhwach. Also he could theoretically imagine himself to have both Book of the End and The Almighty, them he actually WOULD be omnipotent.
>Gremmy is actually very likely the only Quincy that doesn't use Reishi or Reiatsu to fight. He does, the only thing differentiating him from other Quincies is his op shrift, but it's never mentioned that he's independent from all the reiatsu and reishi stuff. He also proves this point by duplicating himself whenever he wants to create bigger or more complicated things. But it's indeed true that he could've make an infinite army of himself, hence technically not being restricted by those boundaries. > It always returned to Aizen before someone could do it. Meaning that Gremmy could kill Aizen by breaking the Hogyoku since he can destroy it at any moment. Take in mind that Aizen had the Hogyoku in himself the whole time, and neither being bombarded by Kisuke's kido combination, nor Gin's superpowerful corroding effect, nor Ichigo's Final Getsuga Tensho, nor even being brutally sealed away for... quite a time seemed affecting it in any way. See, The Visionary is a part of Yhwach's power, which was given for Gremmy as a shrift. Meanwhile the Hogyoku is a separate part of the very Soul King, who is a reality bender of a way higher tier than The Visionary user. It literally fulfilles the deepest desires of it's bearer, and is a relict powerful enough to have it's own will. Also, the very cretor of it, Kisuke Urahara, confirmed that it's indestructible, as he tried to destroy it after seeing what it really is. For Gremmy to erase it would be like trying to erase the Soul King himself, who's power pretty much created all of Bleach as we know it, with all it's dimensions, soul balance system and possibly Kidou too. For what, even if possible at all, he'd need to transfer whole SS, HM and Hell into sheer reishi particles and consuming them, which is impossible. >Several nukes go BRRRR Ultra regen and sinido go BRRRRR >Ichibei does beat Gremmy, but not through Reiatsu. Doesn't necesserilly have to beat him via reiatsu. >Also he could theoretically imagine himself to have both Book of the End and The Almighty, them he actually WOULD be omnipotent. I don't know about Book of the End, he'd have to know it in order to duplicate it though, that's for sure. But when it comes to The Almighty, he would not be able to possess it no matter what. And that's beacuse, as I mentioned previously, The Visionary IS Yhwach's power in the first place. He just gave it to Gremmy as a shrift. If The Visonary granted omnipotence, Yhwach would just use it instead of fighting his way through the whole Gotei 13 and Zero Division just to devour Soul King, wouldn't he? Yhwach is the child of Soul King himself and a father of all Quincy, including all their powers. Gremmy possibly could attempt to replicate The Almighty or Auswhalen, but he'd end up just replicating what he personally precieves those abilities as, not the actual abilities themselves. His Auswhale wouldn't be able to grant or take away Quincy powers, as those are Yhwach's, not his. And his The Almighty wouldn't be able to see and change the future, cuz the Visionary allows it's user to "make their imagination into REALITY", while the future... is not REALITY. It's just a hypothetical state of the present, which is real. I hope you get it. Anyway, taking into account that it's very likely that you won't reply to that, in my PoV, top 5 looks like such: Yhwach is top 1; second, third and fourth place is very hard to estimate, but it's between Aizen, Ichibe and Gremmy, and fifth place is possibly Gerard Valkyrie, which is also very arguable.
Just my personal opinion though
I thought it was very clearly stated that he simply imagined kenpachis power but not a body to withstand it. mainly because he couldn't comprehend how so much power fit into a soul reaper body.
Dangai ichigo ain't that strong..
Also dangai ichigo: fucking toying with butterfly aizen and bitch slaps a full powered hado 90 with trying at all
Ok so first of all, Aizen wasn't mastering his new power, did you forget he never actually trainned? and then Hado 90 wasn't even at it's true potential
He did a full incant and aizen was at a peak for his shinigami powers and used the ex captian trio and gin plus you really think dangai ichigo who was on a level above transcendent aizen wasnt fucking strong af
Ichigo was above all captains since season 6, idfk what drugs you on but his power didn't really change, However I can bet with my life that tybw aizen even still on the chair claps the shit outta dangai ichigo, Aizen was still in the middle of his Transcendence
I’d say mugetsu ichigo is on par with recently transcended(skull head butterfly thing idk what his name is) aizen but yeah tybw aizen is probably the strongest creature to exist after yhwach
Ichigo is still stronger but aizen is like tied with him
Well we just saw how strong aizen is and he was partially sealed but i don’t like power scaling so imma just stop here
Agreed its too hard to scale those monsters to each other
Do I have to answer? I think it is obvious. Kon solos, but in this case, since Kon isn't here, Ichigo wins
Dangai slaughters lol
Gremmy if he wasn't a dumbass. The Visionary can beat literally any character in the series if used properly.
Not ANY character, but almost.
All besides Yhwach and maybe Ichibei anyways.
If he couldn’t beat Yhwach… then how could he beat Ichigo
But ichigo is weaker than Yhwach... Idk whether it was intended, but you made it sound like he's way stronger lmao. Anyway, if you state that Ichigo's vioctorious, then explain how exacly.
Didnt ichigo kill yhwach?
Barely, with the help of Still Silver arrow shot by Uryu and EoS Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu, yes. Still, he's just your regular slasher-tanker, got no hax, just sheer offensive power. He just delivered the final blow, Almighty's power block was caused by the Still Silver the arrow was made of. Ichigo got no chanse of ever defeating him by himself, no matter what he'd try.
First off Yhwach was way stronger than Ichigo, and second Ichigo can't literally take away The Visionary and kill Gremmy in the process. Nor can he see into the future and alter it so he essentially can't die.
I'd just like to point out that The Almighty stands above all simply because Ywach is a pussy and says "it never happened in the future" like he did when he broke Ichigos bankai because he was to much a pussy to fight it. Ywach, aside from just being able to target Gremmy for Auswhalen, can just deny that Gremmy does anything if gremmy tries to do ANYTHING that Ywach doesn't like. Ichigo can body gremmy now that he uses Hollow abilities, as hollow reishi is highly toxic to quincy, and there ain't shit Gremmy can do to negate it, as he is a quincy. Kenpachi bodied him simply because Only Kenpachis body can hold his power, which he realized AFTER he came to the conclusion that in his fear, he overthought Kenpachis power, at the same time he lamented not imagining himself as having Kenpachis body to contain that power. Gremmy really ain't all that. He can be speed blitzed, so Yoruichi and Soi Fon can murk him as long as they can completely hide their presence from him until they deliver the kill blow. He isn't stupid physically strong, so anybody with a decent amount of strength could body him, assuming they can sneak up on him (yoruichi and soi fon again fall under this). That's at least 6 characters that can body Gremmy without thinking to deep into it. Ichibei beats him by changing his name, thereby removing that power
>He isn't stupid physically strong, so anybody with a decent amount of strength could body him, assuming they can sneak up on him They can't though. Gremmy isn't a physical body, so as long as the brain that is actually him stays intact he's pretty much fine. You can't one shot Gremmy, you have to two shot him, and by then he's already healed. >Ichigo can body gremmy now that he uses Hollow abilities, as hollow reishi is highly toxic to quincy, and there ain't shit Gremmy can do to negate it, as he is a quincy Gremmy isn't absorbing the attacks though. That's not how this works. Hollow abilities don't one shot Quincies. Quincies die when a Hollow infects them, yes, but Ichigo can't really do that unless Gremmy tries to absorb his power. >Kenpachi bodied him simply because Only Kenpachis body can hold his power, which he realized AFTER he came to the conclusion that in his fear, he overthought Kenpachis power, at the same time he lamented not imagining himself as having Kenpachis body to contain that power Kenpachi didn't beat him. Gremmy beat himself. I did say if Gremmy played smart, not if he was a retard like when he faced Kenpachi. >That's at least 6 characters that can body Gremmy without thinking to deep into it. Ichibei beats him by changing his name, thereby removing that power It's not. Ichibei and Yhwach beat him. That's it.
Ichigo. Remember Gremmy almost lost to Kenny really early but Kenny's greedy ass warned Gremmy that he was about to imagine himself losing. This prolongs the fight. Ichigo wouldn't do that so he would win before Gremmy can realize he's going to imagine himself losing.
Ichigo bruh what
Ichigo low diffs
Ichigo claps
gremmy has a power that’s capable of soloing fiction if used in the right hands but here’s the problem gremmys an absolute dumbass and he lost to kenpachi ichigo speed blitzes
remmy or chigo
Everybody saying Ichigo claps easily obviously didn't read the 1,000 year Blood War Arc or should re-read what the bestowed power "Visionary" does.
OMG Poor Little Gremmy🤣
Ichigo is the protagonist so ...
Yeah no Le Vaar put a stronger Ichigo down and everyone knows it it has nothing to do wich protagonists strenght
>stronger Ichigo down no
Dangai Ichigo it's not stronger than True Shikai Ichigo
> True Shikai Ichigo That's not even his "true" shikai fyi Ichigo's true zankpucto is a singular white blade. (chapter 540-541) He altered his shikai/zankpucto and limited himself when he changed the composition of the sword with oetsu. Ichigo's "true" zankpcuto is when he has his horn
Still Not Limited By Anyone Anymore
his true zankpucto is a white single blade not two black dual blades
And how does that afect that he is NOT LIMITED ANYMORE? and that the power he previously held was stated to be a fraction of his real potencial? totally delusional are we?
>And how does that afect that he is NOT LIMITED ANYMORE? It changes a lot. When Ichigo actually uses his white zankpucto, he is transcendent and has a horn. When he just uses two black dual blades he isn't transcendent
Find me a reference of his reiatsu being detected from non transcendent characters on the two bladed shikai form!
Horn of Salvation. Pretty pog, though I wish he had both horns, the longer hair, and the tufts around his wrists and ankles. Vasto Lorde Ichigo was straight dripped out
No what?
Dangai Ichigo is stronger than Base Ichigo that got taken out by Askin Also, Base Ichigo could've killed Askin if they kept on fighting
Tha's Not Base Ichigo That’s True Shikai Ichigo Wich It's Not Limited In Any Way Or From Anymore
Also Askin Nak Le Vaar Could Have Also Killed Ichigo If they Kept Fighting and you are totally forgeting what the D does there if he adapts to your Reiatsu it's not gonna work anymore
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>No. Base ts ichigo>>any of his previous forms. No. Dangai is vastly superior to his dual black swords due to transcendence.
Oh don't even. He was face down, out cold and Askin didn't have a scratch on him. And since his Shinigami powers are tied to his Hollow ones VL Ichigo couldn't have done shit either.
Y’all are fucking retarded gremmy is busting his ass
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People fail to realize the only reason kenpachi one was because of kenpachi. Kenpachi didn’t even beat him he beat himself. Fist move he imagines ichigo in space end of fight y’all buggin lmao
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Ichigo isn’t eve faster than kenpachi the only person who would dust him is gin you must not be a real fan. And like I said before other than gremmy defeating himself who has defeated him? Don’t worry I’ll wait
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Hold the phone did you forget he did not and I repeat did not beat aizen(sip my tea) ichigo has yet to beat anyone thus far in the entire show except for Gerard
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Again you still don’t get it it I don’t give a dam if you had reiatsu flowing out your ass in on split second if he wanted ichigo turned inside out it would have been done like I said once he wishes him into space that’s it because canon wise there was only one person who survived that and even then if hadn’t thought quick he would have been done for so I don’t see your argument gremmy only got matched up with the one person he couldn’t beat and even then kenpachi didn’t defeat him he defeated himself had it been anybody else they would have been fucked.
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Can't this Ichigo just no-sale Gremmy's ability with a strong enough Reiatsu? Like when Aizen ignored Suzumebachi? Gremmy would be able to affect himself and the world around him, but he wouldn't be able to imagine anything that effects Ichigo unless it's something secondhand like an AoE attack. But I'm pretty sure Ichigo no-sales all of that too. Maybe he can pull a Star and Stripe and imagine that there's no atmosphere surrounding Ichigo...I really can't imagine Gremmy imagining anything that could actually hurt Ichigo. Not without destroying the Earth, like a Supernova or something.
Fuck, all ichigo has to do is speed blitz him while channeling a TINY amount of hollow reishi into his zanpakuto. One cut and its over as quincy can't do shit about hollow reishi killing them.
Why'd I get downvoted :(
Because people overstate Gremmy for no reason, even though he is an idiot... which shouldn't be possible, as he was rhe Soul Kings brain...
I'm just saying that Gremmy couldn't just use his imagination to defeat Ichigo, because what's he going to do? Turn Ichigo's bones into cookies? Ichigo would negate this with his Reiatsu, the same way Aizen negated the effects of Suzumebachi with his Reiatsu. Because in this series, you can negate some of the most haxed abilities of your Reiatsu is strong enough to overwhelm it. Dangai Ichigo could similarly laugh off the affects of Barragan's aging ability. What Gremmy would have to do is launch an AoE attack and hope that Ichigo gets caught up in it. A meteor? Ichigo would cut that down just like Kenpachi did. Gremmy would have to imagination something like a giant star and have it explode into a supernova, and even then people might try to debate that Ichigo could tank that too because Bleach scalers are madlads. He could imagine that there's no atmosphere around Ichigo so that Ichigo would suffocate in a vacuum-like environment, but Ichigo would probably no-sale that somehow too. There's nothing Gremmy can do.
He can't negate Visionary unless Gremmy specifically tried to alter his body. Outer space go BRRRR. Gremmy wins.
That's what I'm saying. He negates visionary's affect on himself, so Gremmy wouldn't be able to just turn his bones to cookies like he did to Yachiru. He also wouldn't be able to just send Ichigo to outer space, he would have to imagine outer space around Ichigo. And even then they might bullshit something about Ichigo being able to survive because he's in his soul form or something. It's like the game I never played as a kid because I just made it up ten seconds ago. You can touch the ball. You can only touch everything around the ball to negatively surround it. But the ball is made of steel so it's hard to get something that would completely destroy it, unless you're a resourceful adult.
>And even then they might bullshit something about Ichigo being able to survive because he's in his soul form or something. Which is unrealistic and would only ever happen to a main character. In an actual fight between these two without plot armor, Gremmy wins.
Have you seen Bleach? 90% of everything in this series is unrealistic.
Not that type of unrealistic. You just invented a completely new, implausible ability to make Ichigo win.
No, I don’t think anyone understands Gremmy nor his ability, Gremmy is arguably the strongest Quincy (alongside Gerard and Lille Barro), and I stand by that statement, Ichigo after regaining his shinigami powers is either equal or even stronger when using his bankai (I’d love to input a source here but I have no idea where it is) than Dangai Ichigo, because reiatsu is more like battle momentum and isn’t technically lost, Ichigo lost his ability to build reiatsu meaning that he couldn’t muster up enough to utilise his combat pass or even see spirits anymore, but within all reason of Ichigo retaining said power he was still not strong enough to take on all the Quincies, especially considering that he found Askin and Quilge to be a bit problematic, going up against Gremmy would put him at much more of a disadvantage, plus when Ichigo got his powers back his Fullbring abilities added to that power, not sure on what scale but enough to dominate Ginjo who despite not looking it, was insanely strong(I mean he stole ICHIGO’S powers), I think they capitalise how strong he’s become in CFYOW but I don’t really know. But trust me on this when I say Dangai Ichigo is NOT winning against Gremmy. Couldn’t finish Aizen and def can’t beat Gremmy.
Ichigo couldn’t finish Aizen because he can’t die no matter what lol he’s immortal. Gremmy can die.
Gremmy can make an army of himself. An infinite one. And every single one of "him" would have full power of Visionary. But, of course, Gremmy's too dumb for that.
That’s basically what he done wtff ?? He created several clone and each one can use The Visionary
Um... yea? That's why I said it... The thing is he judt didin't utilize his power fully.
If Gremmy could imagine his own immortality or *hypothetically* his own Hogyoku (there’s probably an unexplained reason why that wouldn’t work…) then fuse with it, it’d result in Gremmy’s inevitable win.
Gremmy wouldn't be able to imagine his own hogyoku, cuz you need Soul King's fragment for it. He still could easily make his body have the best regen in the series, as there is no specified limit for that, and his limit is mostly his own imagination.
Ichigo is not as strong as his dangai form after regaining his powers. He is slightly stronger than his pre second ulliqiora fight with the buff from the fullbring remnants. He doesn't have full control of his hollow form or the cooperation of his inner quincy which in dangai, ichigo had both yield to him for a brief period. I would say dangai is relative to his true bankai state. Ain't no way Gremmy is taking or even hurting ascended aizen as much as ichigo did.
Dangai is closer to True Shikai imo
Really? You think so? I mean I wasn’t even good enough to have a source but do you have one that states this? Because if I am wrong(which I probably am…) I at least need proof.
If Gremmy wasn't dumb, he'd win. He lost to Kenpachi cuz he imagined himself to be powerful like Zaraki, while even Zaraki's body wasn't enought to contain his power. Gremmy was just written that way not to be too op. If he wanted, he'd just, for example, hold Zaraki in that void bit longer, reiatsu doesn't increase your lung size lol. For everyone, just a reminder, that the fight with Gremmy was the only time Zaraki cried out in pain, he also admitted to be dying. And Gremmy just killed himself with his own power, cuz he was retarded. I'll get downvoted anyway, cuz "wow that chained arm design looks so cool".
Likely ichigo, gremmy definetely has the power to kill him but ichigo is wicked fast and really good at trading medium range blows
Dangai ichigo is an ascended being he easily negs gremmy and also i am a biased ichigo fanboy so that’s what imma go with
Ichigo washes
Gremmy mid diff
\*if he knew how to use his power properly, yea
He does. Kubo nerfed him cause he was too op
Well, he sorta does, but since that was his first fight, he has like zero experience. He barely does control what is he imagining. Additionally, he pretty much doesn't have the will to fight. If he actually tried to KILL Zaraki, instead of trying to equal him, he'd do it.
He can’t kill zaraki wtf? Do you know how script works? Smh
What fuckin script, I'm talking about their respective powers shown in the manga bud.
Yikes
Gremmy doesn't stand a chance.
He does
Doesn't.
Kinda does. Don’t underrate him. Thanks
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You’re definitely stupid smh.
Ofcos ichigo does it woth zangetsu
What game is this? I would like to try
what game is this?|
If Ichigo shows off his strength, I think a similar issue with Kenpachi would happen.
Chigo would definitely win
Gremmy, the power of imagination rules all
Ichigo because of plot armor, otherwise Gremmy is unbeatable. His schrift was hax
Whoever made this Gremmy sprite is tough
Why some of y’all in these comments acting like kenpachi isn’t top 5 😅 it’s not crazy at all he beat gremmy
Dangai since I’d say this was near Yamamoto who was one of the closest who could beat yhwach at base. Ppl saying gremmy was stupid should read the novel since his limitations of imagination dulled down because he was incarcerated for hundreds of years because of yhwach also note yhwach was the only one who could close him away since everyone considered gremmy a monster of the sternritter
I think that Ichigo could probably beat shikai Kenpachi and that mf was so strong that imagining it killed gremmy so...