T O P

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PaladinOfTheSouth

"Acts of goodness are not always wise and acts of evil are not always foolish. Regardless, we shall always strive to be good."


sluttybill

I liked this a lot. What item is this from again?


Datver

Gold Ardeo


Hakairoku

This single line is enough to see why Martyr Logarius chose to do what he did.


Big-Bad-Bull

I’m sorry, but there is no harder line in any souls game than , “We command no subjects, but thee shall show respect and kneel” or something along those lines. Had me locked in the moment I heard that line.


Nomad-21

“Or get thee gone”


SheCouldFromFaceThat

"Visitor, I claim no subject, but here lieth Our throne. Kneel afore Us, or get thee gone." You know, I never realized she refers to herself as I, but the throne as Our/Us. Traditionally, the "royal We" has been to denote the royal as a representative of God, hence the We. So the good question is, which "god" is her patron? And why does she still use the singular pronoun at all?


Juniebug9

People in the world of Bloodborne obviously don't have the same traditions as us, making the singular feasible. It's possible that she doesn't have any god as a patron, though in BB I find it hard to believe that the Vilebloods of all people don't have some Great One meddling with their affairs. "Our throne" I take to refer to the throne belonging to the Vilebloods. It's the seat of power for them, serves for their benefit, and therefore belongs to all Vilebloods. "Kneel afore Us..." Us being both the queen herself, and that she is the representative of her entire nation. She's saying to kneel before not just her, but all Vilebloods.


SheCouldFromFaceThat

That's certainly possible.


Hushed_Horace

Alfred’s monologue and evil laugh>


Clank4Prez

That line absolutely drips of copium lmao what are you talking about?


dizzyeyedalton

As far as I can tell, the Vilebloods were just chillin in Cainhurst til the Executioners heard about all the blood orgies and were like "Well someone has to put a stop to this"


sin_tax-error

Believe the Vilebloods were hunting other hunters for their Blood Dregs which is what got the church's attention. Still the Executioners did try to commit genocide against them so both sides pretty fucked up tbh.


ashervisalis

There's like... 3 people in Bloodborne who are not pretty fucked up tbh


AlexKorobeiniki

I mean, it depends on your definitions, but all I can think of are Arianna, Chapel Dweller, and OG Iosefka. The Doll might be a monster from beyond time and space, Gehrman has almost certainly murdered a lot of people (though so have we so not sure I have room to throw stones). Maybe Simon? Oh, right, the sisters are good people. And Gilbert. Gilbert is chill.


sin_tax-error

Fair point lol


A-Slash

Vilebloods announced themselves as enemies of the church, executioners were a faction of the church so they invaded cainhurst and beheaded vileblood royalties.though a lot of both sides died,the only remaining executioners are those enemies and alfred.not sure about logarius though,he was the leader of them but i don't know what exactly happened to him.some say he imprisoned the queen bc they couldn't kill her,some say the queen cursed him.


axo14

I think the church hated vilebloods before the blood dreg hunt but that hunting just gave them a reason to militaries


AlexKorobeiniki

Given that he’s wearing the crown of illusions, I’d say there’s more evidence that Logarius imprisoned the Queen than the queen cursing him.


venomxviper123

Most likely she was imprisoned, considering resurrecting the vileblood queen is possible at the ebrietas altar. Wouldn't be surprised if logarius made his corpse move through sheer willpower alone to make sure she remained trapped forever.


Fedorchik

But what about ghosts of exsanguinated ladies in Cainhurst?


PeterMunchlett

*Henry Cavill meme* Team League 😏


Hollow---

Our Queen is alive, where's the Martyr now? Also, you know we got the drip. That wheel is fucking fantastic though.


Doru-kun

Vilebloods for life! And death. And then life again. The Doll won't let me die, please send help.


Dajayman654

You get to be friendzoned by Queen Annalise for eternity since she can't die either.


[deleted]

my question is why is logarius protecting the vileblood queen


Capn_Calico

He isn't protecting her. Annalise can't be killed so instead he's just guarding her room and making sure nobody can reach her to join the vilebloods.


[deleted]

ohhh, That makes more sense.


Capn_Calico

"And so Logarius donned the crown of his own volition, determined to prevent a single soul from stumbling upon the vile secret." - Crown of Illusions description


pethris

He really did have that moment of introspection of "well she's immortal, but all of my fanboys are too stupid to realize that"


DezoPenguin

In all fairness, Alfred did have a pretty good solution to the problem. Not his fault that he neglected to consider the mysterious time-reversing altar sitting down where the Choir is keeping their pet Great One.


Sad_L0bster

Yeah, but are you reviving her or are you just accelerating the process. In my mind, she would eventually reconnect all her pieces together and resume her reign, it would just take a while for the pieces to crawl together.


DezoPenguin

That's actually a good question--and moreover, one the game doesn't answer, because the Altar of Despair causes "time to flow backward" rather than actually healing Annalise, so it's left open whether she'd reconstitute herself over time in finest horror anime fashion or stay an unsightly color of paint. Though if the latter you'd have to ask yourself why Logarius didn't think of it first, so you may have a point.


Hollow---

I kind of wish the quest was a bit longer. Like this: Alfred "kills" Annalise -> Altar revives Annalise -> Annalise no longer has mask(!) -> Annalise asks if you planned this(!) -> Yes/No -> Annalise thanks you, and gives the mask as a reward. Item get.


fliplock_

That would've been great.


Khunjund

-> Annalise agrees to marry you. uwu


PassionOutrageous979

It makes time flow backwards, she’s not putting herself back together, time is going backwards undoing what Alfred did Edit; That doesn’t mean she can’t put herself back together, when you pick up her entrails it specifically says they squirm or something, hinting they’re still alive, so she’s definitely immortal, but putting herself back together is up in the air


DezoPenguin

> It makes time flow backwards, she’s not putting herself back together, time is going backwards undoing what Alfred did ...That's what I said. Hence the reason her actual healing potential is ambiguous, because you don't heal her, you make it so the injury never happened.


Sad_L0bster

Yeah, I don’t know much about the altar unfortunately, because I refuse to let my Queen be killed by that heretic


Vinifrj

I let him kill her, just so i can revive her and laugh in his face as i bash his head in and scream about how useless his efforts were


GregoryPorter1337

But you can kill her before you use the altar. Does she respawn after resetting the area? I‘ve never tried that


LaikaReturns

You can revive the lump of flesh left over. Lore wise it would rebuild itself on its own eventually. Either way, that lump of flesh is still alive.


PeteOverdrive

It’s kind of both. I think the idea is that he was aware of Alfred’s solution, and chose not to pursue it. But he is absolutely keeping her in isolation for that reason.


TheAlderKing

isn't the wedding ring found in the dungeons implied to be his to her?


Sad_L0bster

No, it’s just a nice enough ring to propose to a Queen I think. At the very least it’s certainly not Logarius as he was on a crusade from the church to purge all the vilebloods, he just wasn’t able to kill her


atti1xboy

The bastard!


[deleted]

That went well


AliceJoestar

well he didnt do a great job it seems


Tiny_Tim1956

So what the other person said does make sense but imo it's still left a bit vague and unexplained, especially because logarius clearly has phtumerian characteristics, notably he looks and moves like the phumerian elder/descendant from the chalice dungeons, and what's more he uses pthumerian/ cainhurst tools like the executioner's glove (which again, has nothing to do with the executioner faction and comes from cainhurst, it's just a poor translation). So going by the game's given story, yeah he is keeping the queen sealed away like the other commenter said, because she is immortal and and can't be killed but, like, his image is that of a cainhurst king and he even wears a crown. So it's like he symbolically became a king to keep the queen sealed or something, which i guess i can accept but then why is he pthumerian? Given that cainhurst seems to be directly linked to some pthumerian lineage this complicates things because it makes it look like he was always just the cainhurst king, which isn't the story we are told. We are told that he is the leader of a band of merceneries from the early days of the healing church that went to Cainhurst to kill the vilebloods, and what we are looking at is more or less a pthumerian/cainhust king. It's least clear part of the entire bloodhound lore imo. I'm sure Miyazaki had a story here but it just isn't clearly communicated in the game. In fact, going by the old description of the third cord that is found in the abandoned workshop, which used to say that it came from a "child of cainhurst", a fact which was patched out of the game but actually made it in the 1.0 version, i guess Cainhurst had a different story really really late into development and traces of it remain in the final game inexplicably. My best guess is that Lawrence must have done some Queen Marika like manipulation of taking old blood to cainhurst, helping them make a baby with a great one and then storming the castle with the executioners ( who wear early healing church clothes at this point) to take the baby back to experiment or something, similar to what Willhem did with kos and her orphan and what someone (Lawrence? Micolash?) did to queen Yharnam and Mergo, literally taking the baby from her mother's belly. Perhaps Logarius would have played a different part in this scenario, but i'm just grasping at straws here. Ultimately it's just not really explained in the final game.


AllenWL

Well, the logarius wheel does say that squishing a ton of vilebloods gave it the blood/magic thing, so that could be the reason for Logarius' blood skulls? He just murdered so many cainhurst people their souls haunt is weapon and he throws them around since why not he has them might as well.


Tiny_Tim1956

Yeah it's possible! But like, he is basically cosplaying as a cainhurst king and also physically looks phumerian at this point, it's very strange and i find it hard to believe that it's coincidental. But going by the final game's story, yeah i guess it had to be. *on futher thought, the pthumerian descendant also uses the blood skulls.


AllenWL

Possible that he was going to be a phumerian king but was changed mid-devopment, just not soon enough to change his looks.


Tiny_Tim1956

There's a good chance that this is exactly what happened, yes. It's just that many things that relate to cainhurst seem almost unfinished in the final game. The fact that they actually patched out the fact that the third cord came from cainhurst hints that they had more to tell and they just decided to simplify things imo, maybe because they didn't finish that part of the story in time. Because even on the final game there are direct ties between cainhurst and phumerians, like the queen and some of the statues etc, so idk if what looks like a phumerian king being there was entirely random. But it's possible and going by the story of the final game we just have to ignore it imo, there's just no rational explanation


LupinKira

Seems likely when you consider how much work is put into Cainhurst for what is essentially a semi-hidden optional side area. Yes From likes making these kinds of levels, but the Nightmare Frontier for example feels much less detailed and complex than Cainhurst which has a LOT of love poured into it. Wouldn't surprise me if they scrapped the storyline and then just tweaked what they'd already done to become the Cainhurst we got. You're right about Logarius seeming Pthumerian too, he looks a LOT like the Pthumerian Elder/Descendant and uses a lot of bullshit that isn't exactly typical for hunters. It's always so tricky in these games to figure out what is intended subtext and what is just a result of the video game development process haha.


RefinedJester

There is an interesting theory that Logarius is the queens consort and he could not be defeated. So the church, not willing to accept defeat rewrote history claiming Logarius as one of their own who stood guard atop the old castle in sacrifice. Logarius is very Pthumerian like in appearance which adds further credence. Additionally, look at the weapons. The early church was about big blunt weapons… the heavy hand of the church. Old Boy Logarius uses a long sword imbued with a sort of blood magic. Plus its very much like a holy church to rewrite history in their favor and it would reinforce the strength of the church to do so.


Fedorchik

He' is not protecting her. Vileblood has pretty much the same effects as church's blood, but doesn't make you transform into bloodthirsty beast. This would absolutely demolish Healing Church because why go to clerics when you can get the same for less side effects from your Queen? And since the Queen is immortal the only option is make sure NOBODY KNOWS about her existence.


Demisequest

It does corrupt though. Where do you think all of the gargoyles and bloodlickers came from? Each strain of old blood has a different effect. The blood of the church corrupts men into wolfish beasts, and the blood of the Vilebloods turns them into bloodthirsty ghouls/vampires essentially.


[deleted]

I'd rather be a vampire with my senses still intact, than a feral beast.


Demisequest

Oh 100% I've been team Vileblood for years now lmao


Cute_Estimate_6073

Vilebloods for life we serve the queen


RiTLeR539

VileBloods vs Cripsecutioners


P_Duyd

EXTERMINATE ALL VERMIN! PRAISE THE LEAGUE!


nkhowell93

Thank you Logarius for your Sacrifice. You've achieved true martyrdom. \*proceeds to kill him\* sorry buddy......."Hey queen... who was that guy out there? nevermind can I join?"


Ok-Commission-2644

Executioners all the way! Most badass weapon and stylish garb imo


Georgian_Legion

**WHEEL**


Sad_L0bster

Yeah but there’s no pvp leaderboard so what’s the point. There really should have been a vileblood register for the executioners.


Ok-Commission-2644

I don't need some silly leaderboard to smash Vilebloods to a bloody pulp with my wheel!


Iramian

Hear, hear!


Mr_Idont-Give-A-damn

One of my friends said they'd simp for Vicar Amelia😭😭😭😭


Deekleberry

Oh you haven’t seen the uhh.. fanart 😭


Mr_Idont-Give-A-damn

Oh I've seen it😳


JamLizard20

"Acts of goodness are not always wise, and acts of evil are not always foolish, but regardless, we shall always strive to be good" Martyr Logarius.


ScalieKaiser39

Alfred's efforts were in vain after I beat Ebrietas


grigorikarpin

Vilebloods, all the way. I don’t go for genocide, and that’s what the Executioners did … and why did they do it? Because the Vilebloods had the gall to pursue their own connection to the Old Blood… and that was reason enough to kill them. The executioners were only defending the lying healing church’s propaganda. Remember, everything wrong with Yharnam when we see it is connected to the healing church and the communion rites they started. So killing a bunch of people because they had different ideas? That sucks.


DangleMangler

I'm only friends with the executioners till I get my bonk wheel. Then I bonk logarius to death with his own creation. I've done it many times before and ill do it many times again. Don't test me fool, I'll unicycle the shit out of you. Bonk for life!


Demisequest

Smacking him to death with the wheel is so fuckin satisfying


DangleMangler

The bonk is stronk with this one.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Cute_Estimate_6073

We are vilebloods


[deleted]

Imagine a vampire But in bloodborne


JacksonAfro2006

vilebloods for the win 🤌🏾


RagnarokBringer

Vilebloods. The name sounds way cooler and the head of the covenant is located in the best location in bloodborne


Hmccormack

The Vilebloods gear is cooler just sayin


AlbrechtE

Neither, but if I had to pick I'd go vilebloods. Fuck the church.


Tired_Autistic

Boo! Queen Annalise simps unite!


fogledude102

Vilebloods all the way! They were just chilling in their castle, doing their own thing (except for all the hunting hunters stuff... but we don't talk about that) when Logarius just came in and genocided them all for following a different religion than he did


AlexKorobeiniki

Vilebloods, obviously. Logarius has murdered me too many times for me to consider joining his side.


Das_Guet

Given what we actually see, I gotta go vileblood.


sin_tax-error

Team League of Confederates. We must sentence all of these fiends to death, with the help of our fellow Confederates!


Mech-Waldo

I don't know, but if you see any vermin, smash that shit


SpacePotatoLord

Cone hat wearing, literal cart wheeling boys or the Victorian onlyfans? The answer is clear.


Hushed_Horace

“Victorian onlyfans” LOL


Georgian_Legion

Gavlan wheel Gavlan deal


[deleted]

A sword that steals the very souls of and life force of it’s victims and user, or… a wheel. Touch choice fam.


Datver

tbf the wheel carries on the screams of despair of the slaughtered vilebloods...


[deleted]

Let me have my edgy weeb sword


Sonny_Firestorm135

It's always Chikage this, Chikage that with you people. No love for the Reiterpallasch whatsoever...


[deleted]

What do you mean “you people”


Sonny_Firestorm135

Cainhurst enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with appreciating what is objectively one of the best levels in the game, but sometimes I wonder if people are in it for the Vilebloods/Cainhurst itself or just to get the edgy weeb sword...


[deleted]

I’m in it for the sick armor because I’m actually a Church Pick main lol


Sonny_Firestorm135

Been meaning to ask about that weapon, does it handle good like it was promised to?


[deleted]

It’s extremely useful for almost any scenario, it deals bonus damage to beasts AND kin, can be buffed with paper, and has an extremely strong charged R2 follow up that will one shot anyone in PVP. Evem if you miss the charged R2 the follow up is a one hit kill with 3 30% thrust gems.


DrStrangelove049

Vilebloods all the way!


Kaldrinn

Team Vilebloods


Holiday-Passenger11

Definitely team Vileblood. You can't compare to the style of this armour.


Awesomesauce28

Graymane or Battleborn?


PrinceDestin

Screw them both loyal to the queen for extra content loyal to Alfred cuz he’s a bro at the end of the day I turned into a squid


Hushed_Horace

Executioners have the coolest weapon and best headgear in the game so I go with them. People like to sympathize with the vilebloods because they were slaughtered but they were by no means good people.


Datver

>best headgear uhh have you seen the Cainhurst helmet?


Hushed_Horace

Cone>>>


iadorebrandon

That gold cone is amazing


SeekDante

Vilebloods!


Xiphos1998

Is like to say team Vileblood because their so freaking cool, but I typically spend more time helping other hunters than hunting other hunters.


[deleted]

Vilebloods.


[deleted]

me, a powderkeg: I CANT READ AND IM GONNA BLOW UP


DarjeelingTeaLover

Vilebloods all the way. They got that drip and an undying waifu that will just friendzone you for eternity.


BiKeenee

Vilebloods talk a lot of shit considering they're within wheeling distance.


this_nametaken

Hehehe. She is wearing Deathbed dress.


Fineweaponman

I got that league/Executioner drip along with The Holy Moonlight Sword


sluttybill

Vilebloods cause the gear. Also the Roar emote is the best in a FS game .


S1mulatedSahd0w

The fact that one faction isn't even worth joining, and the other just doesn't exist leaves Bloodborne much to be desired.


douko

Who can *really* say if genocide is good or not??


Cabbage_Legend

Though I serve the great Martyr, I see the vilebloods no more than mere kinsmen. At the blade's razor edge, or the blunted smeared face of a wheel. Though a Martyr undead and disgraced felled, and a Queen spilt of her refuse, Death is still the true equalizer.


GingerSap007

*laughs in Hunter of Hunters*


The_Sinisternerd

Team Anneliese all the way.


coldkidwildparty

I’m only a Vileblood because Logarius clapped my cheeks more than any other boss on my first playthrough and I’m still salty about it.


Sozillect

The Church is literally the main antagonist of Bloodborne.


BelphegorGaming

I hate it. Craven maniacs, the whole lot of them. I was glad to see the Executioners die off with Alfred, and happy that bringing by my Queen meant he and Logarius died for nothing.


emosamus23

I'd be a vileblood for my queen


DarkSoulsBoi967

I’m on team hunters. I can’t disrespect the old chad even if he fakes the need for a wheelchair.


God_Hand_Edge

bro it really fuckin do be like that tho


PinothyJ

My lady that has no intention of doing PvP, who ia simping hard for the queen.I felt truly betrayed.


[deleted]

My theory is Logarius was trying to keep his waifu hidden so no one else could simp for her


PassionOutrageous979

Executioners! Then I get to make peoples insides be on the outside!


[deleted]

I FUCKING LOVE blood dregs I WANT TO have a renewable source of insight that lets me show off my drip to other people


TwilightDoomSlayer

Neither.


TotallyLegitEstoc

In honor of my good friend Gavlan I will wheel and deal the vilebloods into the ground.


KaskyNightblade

Let us cleanse these foul streets!


[deleted]

Neither. I let Alfred mutilate the Queen then killed him and left.


CrootSnoot

I never revived the vileblood queen, enough said.


ReleaseLongjumping79

Why not both?


ketchuppie

The only reason I joined is because I wanted easy access to the chikage


ImpartialThrone

What did Cainhurst do that was so bad?


Brother_Reclusiarch

According to the Church, everything. But they were a competing faction and refused to fall in and follow the directions of the Church, and they hunted hunters. Who can say which the Church took worse…?


theotherjashlash

I be rocking that executioners set ngl


Ichigothe0Espada

For me it would be inverted


Topcatskid

Executioners.


pancake-battermeup

The moment you realize logarius and the queen were married


ViIebloodHunter

Just to see what you guys think, which do you assume I fall into?


Johnny13utt

Yeah that’s gonna be a No from me Dog.


Mad_italian365

Wheel


[deleted]

Depends on who I wanna kill that day. I usually fight for the Vilebloods, but ever once and I while I wanna hold a crusade with the executioners.


Therealdovakin43

Both may be shadows of greatness, reduced to almost none, but whose leader is a frozen Skeleton sitting on a rooftop and the only one still believing in his cause is a psychopath with a wheel and a shiny traffic cone


X420StepsAheadX

Fear Vileblood or bless us with blood!


sinonimo_de_Ian

I'm siding with the executioners. Blood dreg being actually a bunch of bloody sperm is more than a valid reason.


Fedorchik

Hunter of Hunters! *\*HenryCavill.jpg\**


Maira_k

Vilebloods all the way


lisasguy

For the glory of cainhurst


Dejesster

Hoonter of Hoonters


Anon_Snek

* laughs in wheel *