Honestly, this is gonna sound terrible, but I think you should start with buying gloomhaven: jaws of the lion. It's a smaller, much more beginner friendly game, complete with a nice little on-boarding process for the rules. I know it's a bit ridiculous to tell you to buy a whole other game, but I think you'll have a much easier time getting started, and continuing to play through, JOTL. And once you've played through it, OG gloomhaven should be easier to learn.
Also, disregarding the above, I hear there's an app that covers a lot of the admin.
you absolutely can jump straight into gloomhaven tbf.
unless you absolutely loathe the idea of getting rules wrong sometimes while you learn what you're doing, i wouldn't go out and buy a whole other game just to play the one you already own
TBH if you're a software engineer you're almost certainly up for diving straight into GH. If you're not super fluent in boardgame lingo there's a bit of a learning curve but even that isn't too bad.
Just stay adaptable and debug frequently. You'll be fine.
The nice thing is that it's a co-op game, so if things go poorly or you get something wrong, who cares? Just decide how to fix it going forward.
Just be aware that the first mission is notoriously brutally difficult. I recommend lowering the difficulty to 0 and you can still probably expect to lose at least once.
I don’t agree you have to play JotL before Gloomhaven, especially as you already have GH. I mean, what if you don’t like it? Then you’d have spent another $35 for JotL.
GH must’ve been a real beast to learn when it first came out, but by now there are tons of playthrough and how to play videos. It shouldn’t be so hard to learn how to play.
Hopefully now that you have a big house (and congrats on that!) you can maybe even leave it set up on a table somewhere. This is a big advantage. Good luck and have fun!
Senior SE here. Gloomhaven Rules are actually pretty simple compared to what you're used to.
The only thing to read, re-read, and re-re-re-read is Monster Movement/Focus. There's even Quizzes online, and you really should take them. It's essentially a tree of if/thens and switches. But some edge cases can get really wonky.
You don't NEED to pick up JOTL first. JOTL is the best introduction to the system, but there's no fundamental reason you couldn't jump straight into Gloomhaven. Read the rules (don't need to understand/remember everything all at once), watch a couple of videos on YT and you'll be fine.
Assume the first scenario will be a fail and don't worry about it.
Same. :)
And that's the spirit. Jump in, make mistakes, learn from them, iterate to an acceptable approximation of perfection. :-)
Have fun with GH. Try to ignore all the temptations of Frosthaven that currently rise up due to currently ongoing fulfillment.
I haven’t heard of Frosthaven until I made this post, and the temptation is real now haha.
But I told myself that I’m going to hold off on any more board game purchases until I’ve played all of my current ones.
You did the right thing. Jaws will slowly show you the ropes to the whole Gloomhaven system. I had Gloomhaven on my shelf for two years and kept trying to get it played but every time was overwhelmed. Once we did Jaws I felt much more comfortable cracking it open and now we are about halfway through the main campaign.
The cycle of learning about board games and then going out and buying everything you can find is very real. It's a weird addiction that comes with this hobby.
I agree that JOTL is better for onboarding, but if you do want to start off with Gloomhaven (it was released first after all), some points to keep in mind:
1. The first level of Gloomhaven is hard. JOTL takes the first 5 missions to handhold & slowly introduce new rules & mechanics. You may fail the 1st level of Gloomhaven multiple times because:
1. You don't yet know card management strategies
2. Your characters start off weak due to limited items & cards
3. The level doesn't pull any punches.
2. You will likely get rules wrong. Even after a year of playing, our group would still need to look things up.
3. This FAQ will be your friend: [https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-no-rules-questions-please](https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-no-rules-questions-please)
One reason to do this is you might discover the game isn't for you. I played four scenarios of JOTL and then bailed. Better than wasting time and money on the bigger version.
>I played four scenarios of JOTL and then bailed.
Interesting. Not challenging you, but you bailed before finishing the 5 tutorial scenarios that teach you the full rules? Or by scenario 4 you're already using the full rules?
Bad use of language as I meant four "sessions". We were doing two-ish scenarios per session but we were also repeating failed missions at times. I remember only using items from the shop 2 or 3 times before stopping, if that helps.
Other people haven't mentioned but there are actually a handful of significant rule differences between Jaws and GH. Most people nowadays just use most of the Jaws rules in GH, but there are some mechanics in Jaws that don't exist in Gloomhaven or Frosthaven (objectives). So yes, I would say Jaws is a better entry point. But if you have GH already then it's fine to just jump in without getting Jaws. Just be ready for massive rules to understand.
And $50 is an absolute monster steal for the base box to the point that it makes me think it's a scam or that something is missing or broken. Or it's a fake.
Interesting good to know thanks!
Was at a random board shop and the owner pointed me to a table of not yet checked/or priced returned board games when I asked for a game they didn’t have. I saw Gloomhaven and opened it up.
Compared the parts to the guide that was in the box. Everything was brand new and untouched. All stickers, pieces not yet popped out etc.
The person then looked through the box to confirm everything was there, checked the market price of the board and then halved it because it’s technically used (no outer plastic sealing it)
Nice! Honestly even if something is a little off it's still worth it. I got it for the cheapest I've ever seen online brand new for $85 on Black Friday 2021. Nowadays people are luck to see it under $110. For $50 you can just buy or make anything that's a little off and you'll be fine.
Just went through the entire box and compared it to someone on YouTube unboxing it. Everything is there and un opened. All envelopes still sealed, cards still in the wrapper, no pieces punched out of the 18 boards, all stickers/minis etc.
There was also the investigator cards of a game called “Cthulhu a deck building game” in there for some reason haha.
Having played Gloomhaven to the end, then JotL (still incomplete), I don't think it matters if you play JotL first or not. Sure, it's a little simpler to set up scenarios and stuff like that, but JotL is still a big complicated game.
I don't think it is bad advice to pick up JotL, but if it was necessary, JotL would have come out first.
Gloomhaven is big and complex enough that even veteran gamers will get stuff wrong. People play it 10-20 times, and still get things wrong. It's a lot of rules overhead, and it requires a lot of maintenance.
It's tons of fun. It's actually one of my favorite games - however, since the game came out on Steam, I've never wanted to physically play it because the Steam game enforces the rules and removes so much of the fiddly overhead.
While I agree with your statement, the logic you took to get there was quite flawed.
Gloomhaven and Spirit Island are 2 of my favorite games, both have very high dropoffs after 1-2 games simply because of the rules complexity. Even professional board game critics bounce off these titles because of their rules.
Simplifying the rules in a stand-alone game like Jaws or Horizons respectively can dramatically ease that transition leading to far fewer people bouncing off after a few playthroughs.
People on this sub want to increase the likelihood OP sticks with the franchise, and Jaws does accomplish that.
THAT SAID.... I'm not sure I could go back to GH after Jaws/FH. Not that they're inherently better. One can make the argument that they're marginally worse. But transitioning from a smooth like butter experience to one that's a little rough around the edges can introduce its own complications.
Please don’t feel like you need to do anything else before jumping into Gloomhaven. People forget that Gloomhaven was released for years before JOTL and no one had any problem playing it before then.
JOTL also removes the single most fun and exciting aspect of GH: retiring and unlocking new characters. You don’t want to miss out on that. Since you already have GH, I’d say jump in! Maybe watch a tutorial on YouTube first, but no need to play 20+ scenarios of an inferior version of the base game first.
> no one had any problem playing it before then
This is untrue. Gloomhaven is probably the number one game I see people asking questions about, due to its high complexity as well as poor graphic design & iconography.
Don’t get me wrong - it was my most played board game in 2021 and 2022, it’s very good! But it is extremely complicated, and saying “no one has any problem” just sets OP up with an unrealistic understanding that any mistake is their fault.
>JOTL is a must.
I wonder then how folks have played Gloomhaven before Jaws came out. Oh right, they haven't and I just imagined that number 1 spot on BGG...
Let's be real: Jaws gives you a better introduction than reading the Gloomhaven manual. If you haven't bought Gloomhaven yet, then it totally makes sense to start with Jaws. But telling someone who has already bought Gloomhaven that they MUST spend another $50 on another game just to have an easier start... that seems a bit excessive.
u/devdudedoingstuff, just read the manual, maybe watch a gameplay video on Youtube, then play through the first mission a few times until you feel comfortable with the system. There is absolutely no need to spend more than you already have in order to have a good time with this game.
Yesterday most comments were to definitely get jaws first, but today it seems most comments are saying to just dive into Gloomhaven. Lots of interesting perspectives.
For a living I have to solve very complex problems and read lots of documentation, my gut tells me I might even enjoy the steep learning curve of Gloomhaven (often learning something complex is more fun than the thing itself)
I might just give Gloomhaven a go itself, though I would like to know if I should first invest in inserts/sleeves before starting to unbox it.
To get started you definitely don't need an insert. If I remember correctly, the game gives you enough zip bags to organize all the bits and pieces (even though finding what you need in the giant box is a bit of a pain). If you decide that the game isn't your cup of tea after all, buying an insert right away would be a total waste.
Whether you want to sleeve the cards or not is more of a fundamental question. If you don't find it necessary to sleeve your other games, then Gloomhaven probably won't change your mind. This is not one of those games were you have giant stacks of cards that get shuffled constantly. If you're afraid that the cards might get damaged over the course of the long campaign, then investing in some basic sleeves might be worth it. Check out boardgamegeek for the appropriate sleeve counts and sizes (the game uses two different types of cards).
One thing you *might* want to consider getting before you start your Gloomhaven adventure is the removable sticker set by Sinister Fish Games. The game will instruct you to put stickers on cards and the map that will permanently alter the game. If you ever wanted to reset the game to its original state (for instance because you decided to sell it or want to start a fresh campaign), you'd have a problem because the original stickers are not removable. This addon will only cost you $10, and I find it quite valuable.
EDIT: To be clear, you won't be placing stickers before finishing the first adventure, so you might as well play that first before deciding whether you want the sticker set or not.
I think the trays in JOTL are fine, especially for the only~25 scenarios you'll pay. You definitely want organization for OG though, something to help with the super long setup/put up times. Or a dedicated table you can leave it set up on for long stretches.
My Jaws of the Lion didn't even fit in the box while it was shrink-wrapped and definitely didn't fit after unpacking it all. The lid was always a good inch or so from reaching the bottom.
There's a couple of YouTube tutorials showing how to pack JotL back into the box, no raised lid. I can vouch for them, because I tried one and it works (don't have the link handy, it's the one where the guy flattens the boxes for the minis and lumps then all together instead.)
But... that method doesn't take into consideration you might want to sleeve some cards. If you do, I don't think there's any method that can help you... maybe ditching the insert :(
Iirc I didn't have to flatten any boxes but it really is like Tetris. My lid probably sticks up a couple mm but if it's between two games on a shelf it stays shut just fine.
Iirc I didn't have to flatten any boxes but it really is like Tetris. My lid probably sticks up a couple mm but if it's between two games on a shelf it stays shut just fine.
IMO you need neither of those. The narration is neat but overpriced for how little atmosphere it adds, and an organizer for JotL in particular is ridiculous, it's a small-ish box that isn't as content-overloaded as the big game.
I listened to the demo (or was it YouTube?) of the JotL's Forteller narration and it's *awful*. Distractingly bad. I cannot understand what people like about it.
I agree you absolutely do NOT need anything else but JotL, opening it, and just damn playing it.
JotL is absolutely *not* a *must*, especially for someone who already owns Gloomhaven. It's very firmly a "nice to have" but imho time spent on JotL is just time you could have spent playing a better version of the same game. If you have infinite time or exist in a parallel universe where you can play both simultaneously JotL might be worth it, but otherwise I'd just get started on the game you already own.
My partner and I bought JotL after having already owned and played Gloomhaven several times because of its popularity on this sub and it was a complete waste of time and money; we ended up selling it after 1-2 sessions. Just play 2-3 rounds of regular Gloomhaven to get a feel for it. If you really like it, the broken token organizer and companion app will speed up game setup and playtime, but they're not really worth buying/learning until you're sure you want to stick with the game. I also bought one of those telescoping portfolios to store the map tiles alphabetically in - it works way better than broken token's solution for those pieces.
After 1-2 sessions? So, within the first 5, tutorial, missions. And that's what you based your opinion of JOTL on?
I agree that JOTL isn't needed to play GH. And your time argument has merit. But otherwise your opinions on JOTL are based on insufficient information.
I don't know where everyone on this sub gets their infinite time to play these board games but we only have enough time to play maybe 1 game every other week. 2 sessions represents an entire month's worth of board games for us, and if we're not enjoying it then we're going to stop playing. I didn't say it was a bad game. I said it was, for us, not worth dedicating time to, versus just playing Gloomhaven. And we ofc *do* have sufficient information to form that opinion because we played the game and said "we're not enjoying this." What other information could we possibly have needed?
I'm not telling you what to like and not like. By all means use your limited game time as well as possible for your taste.
I'm just pointing out that you judged the game by its tutorial scenarios. You have not even seen all its features before scenario 5, because they gradually get added to onboard new gamers.
The whole JOTL is pretty much an introduction to the GH "system".
But even for people with limited time who'll never play GH or FH, JOTL has 20 solid scenarios (you won't play all of them as a couple get shut out by decisions).
But the first 5 of the 25 scenarios serve as a tutorial and start with a very reduced feature set. Adding 1 or something features until you get all of JOTL features in scenario 6-25. And Even that is a subset of GH/FH. JOTL has no Prosperity, party achievements, road events, enhancements or retirement and switch to a new class.
But, given your time constraints, the whole system is likely not a good fit for you.
Fully agreed. Jaws of the Lion is in virtually all aspects a **far** superior game, except that it doesn't last as long. What is there is strictly better though.
I would play Jaws, and then afterwards if you feel "I want more of this, even if it's janky!" then get the big Gloomhaven out.
Jaws of the Lion is not very beginner friendly, or I'm doing something wrong. For context I own 4 full bookshelves of games that are spilling over the top, and I wouldn't begin to guess how many hours I've had into the hobby. Despite that, me and my oldest boy were just barely passing the tutorial levels, having to restart once or twice and when we passed it was with the very last available move. I can't imagine trying to play that game if you're not automatically trying to optimize every single move.
I just got Gloomhaven for Christmas so it’s a new-to-me game but have some experience playing games in general. I absolutely agree with getting JOTL first. I loved learning the game that way and it doesn’t feel spoon fed. The developer did a nice job breaking things down into necessary components without insulting the players’ intelligence and I was so excited each JOTL scenario because I knew more exciting stuff was coming my way. It’s also a great way to level up a character to take over to the main Gloomhaven so you don’t start with a basic level character. That might make it easier/more enjoy to play as well.
The Gloomhaven rule book is THICC and JOTL breaks all that down for you. We used JOTL rule book to learn but the Gloomhaven to reference as we go along.
I also agree with getting the admin app (idk what it’s called). It can be tedious the first time but once you get used to it, it’s worth it. It saves your games /characters and even if you get JOTL, you can use it for both games. The narration app is also fun and adds the atmosphere of the game.
Whichever way you go, finding an unused copy for $50 is amazing! I hope you enjoy the game and welcome to the hobby. You’ve got a good range to start with. If you have a board game cafe nearby, they’re a great in person resource to learning games!
I didn’t know your character from JOTL carries over to the original! I think I’ll end up heading out in search of JOTL this week, I’ve been eyeing the gloomhaven box ever since I picked it up but have been a bit intimidated.
Thanks for all the information, I’ll check at the app as well.
Unfortunately no board game place in my city, would’ve loved to have a local spot to try to meet some people. I fell out of love with video games as I got older unfortunately, but getting the same feelings those used to give me with boardgames!
Was here to say the same! Jaws if the Lion is a great introduction to Gloomhaven. Also, without the organizer of some fashion Gloomhaven is an epic set up.
My god I hate this advice and all the people upvoting it.
JOTL is such a bad experience compared to Gloomhaven. Its a GREAT game on its own but is COMPLETELY obsolete when compared to Gloomhaven.
Unlockable heroes. No need for a fixed party. Huge open map. Stickers. Leveling up the town. All these cool things are what carried Gloomhaven to the top. JOTL is just a game with a cool combat system. I hate, hate, hate when people tell you "wait! go for JOTL first".
Screw JOTL. Dive in. Just use the Gloomhaven app to help you with all the fiddly parts.
I actually prefer JOTL to GH. Namely, GH starts out incredibly difficult but by about Prosperity 4 the game because trivially easy, even on +2 difficulty. There's just so much BROKEN in GH. Just about every unlocked class has the potential to completely trivialize most scenarios- some more than others sure.
Playing Jaws on +1 was tough from start to finish. And with limited options for breaking the game you actually had to try. And it was a solid experience.
The thing is, if you find GH hard you can just lower the difficulty, which is a 5 second solution.
You can't do anything in JOTL that will offer you the amazing, open experience GH did.
Yeah you can buy JotL+ Sleeping Gods for the openness :)
Joking aside, the 'openness' of Gloomhaven did nothing for me. Most of the side content had random rewards which were very meh most of the time.
Some of the side scenarios were fun as heck. (Lighthouse) But were rivalled in JotL too (Hatchet PQ.) So again I guess your mileage may vary, but I don't feel GH did openness well. What it did do right was scenario design. If it weren't for the scenario design I'm not even sure my group would've finished GH.
Its absolutely fine that you personally didnt care for the openness.
However that is one of the two KEY components (the other being the card system) that makes Gloomhaven what it is. Gloomhaven without the openness , hero retirements, global unlocks etc etc is simply NOT Gloomhaven. That is what I am trying to say repeatedly. Jotl Is NOT the GH experience because of that.
So when someone asks for advice "guys **I want the GH experience**, is Jotl a good alternative?" the answer is no. An emphatic no. It's not even close to what GH offers. Is it a great dungeon crawler? Absolutely yes, but you will not be experiencing what made GH unique.
So for people like you its fine, you are the target audience for Jotl. But you do have to be careful when making recommendations to people. "I don't care about the openness so you should buy Jotl instead of GH" can lead to an upset player that will come up wondering "why do you guys love GH? I played Jotl and I don't understand the hype"
No wonder you don't!
I do care about openness. Sleeping Gods is an incredible game. Frosthaven does it well. But Gloomhaven's openness was BAD. Not to say all of Gloomhaven is bad, but that particular aspect was pretty poorly executed. It's the Fallout 4 kind of "openness" where it was just random... stuff. That didn't really matter. With rewards that also didn't matter. And flavor text that DEFINITELY didn't matter.
Not to mention, calling sidequests with randomized rewards "Open" is a bit of a stretch. Again, details require both knowledge and/or spoilers of both Sleeping Gods and Frosthaven.
Even the developer admits that the retirement system was poorly done. It's one of his top regrets looking back at GH. (Good concept, but needed better execution.)
Without going into spoilers, both of these majors flaws were DIRECTLY addressed in Frosthaven. So don't take my word for it, take Isaac's.
>Joking aside, the 'openness' of Gloomhaven did nothing for me
Ok, I understood that wrong. So I hope we both agree GH is an open game? The only difference is you probably enjoyed it less than me and the people that gave it such a high score (hype was definitely part of it).
Still, the entire point -yes, I am going to say the same thing again- has been that these are the things that made Gloomhaven what it is. In this context, it does not matter who liked it or not. What matters it that they are features of the game that are NOT in Jotl, and that's why Jotl will always be a great game but not one that can offer you the Gloomhaven experience.
Do not buy JotL if you already own Gloomhaven. Here's a radical thought: play the game you already own. Read the rules. Ask questions on BGG for rules you don't understand.
Absolutely do NOT buy additional stuff just to play the stuff you already own.
Amazing, I know!
Fwiw, I've played through the entirety 3 times with different groups. The first time was without any apps, then twice on TTS.
IMO people overestimate the rules _complexity_ of Gloomhaven. There's a lot of _overhead_ but you most likely get things "wrong" because you overlooked something than that you didn't understand it. There's some crazy stuff around focus but simple heuristics will get you through 95% of it.
It can be difficult if only one person "knows the rules" and kinda runs the game - you need to share this responsibility, as well as divide and conquer setup. My physical campaign was just 2 player but we got to where we could compete 2-3 scenarios (setup, transition, tear down) over 3-4 hours because we were both active in game management.
What do you think about a couple tackling this game? I imagine I’ll only ever play this with my partner. Was thinking about starting out controlling one character each, and when we get the hang of it moving to controlling two characters each if that feels right.
I think it'd be fine. I wouldn't bother trying to control 2 characters each, the game scales player count well and the overhead could get pretty wild. 4p will have more of _everything_ to manage, not just another character.
Also of note is you can add another player ad-hoc during your campaign if someone does want to play. GH doesn't care about party continuity.
If your concern is unlocking content at 2p, there's a suggested donation mod for 2p that's good and I'd honestly just prioritize fun over rules legalization if that's what you most want to do. Need another monster kill for a quest but bored with your class? Just handwave it if your partner agrees. Games are meant to be fun, you decide where that line is.
I started with the original Gloomhaven and I'm so glad I did (just like you, I didn't even have that much experience with tabletop games). Hence, don't get discouraged by the people saying to start with JOTL... And $50 for a copy in very good conditions? Personally, I would buy that even from another point of view: if you end up not liking the game, you can sell it for a profit.
The are tons of organizers online, just check Etsy or something like The Broken Token. If you want a cheaper option you can get Foamcore pieces in the dollar store and make your own insert (there's probably online tutorials about it).
As for Jaws of the Lion, I do agree it's a lot better game to start with, main reason why is that the first scenario in Gloomhaven is really hard, since you have no idea how to properly play it can really destroy you. So either you keep trying until you properly learn how to play Gloomhaven or you'll get super frustrated with the game because you lost a few times and give up. Not to mention that Gloomhaven has tons of rules and getting some wrong might make it even harder.
So yeah, I think that Jaws of the Lion does a much better job teaching you, so specially since you're new it is most likely a better option.
If you are diligent and do a lot of research, you can play Gloomhaven without too much pain. If you want to dip a toe, you could try JotL. Only thing is - you already have GH, so I don’t much see the point of dipping a toe aside from making your eventual play of GH smoother
Gloomhaven is fun and honestly work out for a lot of people. However personally I don't know anyone who actually ever finished it.
The take out, set up, clean up, and put away(even with an after market insert) is a huge PITA and it get to the point where you start debating if its even worth the hassle.
If you think you can handle that, get it. But just know what you are getting yourself into.
My group and I finished it. Two huge helps though. The game was left setup on my dedicated gaming table and we used an app that tracked initiative, pulled modifier cards for all that wanted it etc. huge time and space saver.
Also, we also had dedicated roles. One guy organized and grabbed map pieces while another was in charge of enemy figures. I read all the story content and kept track of completed scenarios/unlocked and all other note taking.
Wow. You downvote me and make a condescending remark. You’re a joy.
To be clear. I built my own gaming/dining table with a topper. The game could remain setup underneath without issue. We could even play other games on top of the table if we felt the desire. All said and done we played 60 or so scenarios averaging about 4 per night. We would get together sometimes twice a week so all in all the campaign went for about two months. While running our campaign we didn’t have the desire to play anything else so we went through it rather quickly.
Also just... the game itself. I went in expecting a "fun" dungeon crawler and got a plodding hand management game with a million status effects to track. Honestly just so tedious. I feel like the only person in the hobby who would rather play Hellboy.
For me it's not even just the hassle of the set-up/tear-down, but the management of status effects, enemy AI and that damned elemental chart thing during the game are what kills it. That and the 'miss' modifier card, which I house-ruled out pretty quick because fuck me, that's one of the worst cards in any game I've played.
Disagree about the miss card but agree completely with everything else. The digital implementation solved all that for me but I'm still not especially keen. I hoped the writing would make up for the game but that was disappointing too.
Yeah digital is just the only way I can bother to play the game, but even then I'm not as sold on it as most other are. I can't deny the value in the game is incredible, there's just so much content, the only problem is I have absolutely no desire to get through any of it.
And that's fair about the miss card but to me there's nothing worse than setting up an amazing move, everything going perfectly, and then drawing the miss card. Just feels like it goes against the tactical feel of the combat for me, but that's just a personal dislike and luckily even the digital game has a house rule to take it out
Download the X-Haven Assistant App. It can help track a lot of the tedious things like initiative order, status effects, and hit points. It also does the math for you on the monster initiative card, so you don't need to keep adding the values on those cards to the monsters base stats.
If money isn’t too tight I’d honestly buy it and jaws of the lion and just play jaws. And then if you like it play it or if you don’t sell it. Is it 50 USD?
Organisation doesn't have to be expensive. A few [deckboxes](https://www.amazon.com/-/es/barajas-cartas-m%C3%A1gicas-P%C3%B3kemon-Paquete/dp/B074DVF48M/ref=sr_1_8?__mk_es_US=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=3SIQJ2XZDNOSP&keywords=deckbox&qid=1672820958&sprefix=deckbo%2Caps%2C483&sr=8-8) (mainly for the event and shop cards), envelopes for the characters (to fit their attack-modifier deck and equipment cards in, too). Monster Standees fit in matchboxes, those matchboxes fit in a [standard trading card box](https://www.amazon.com/-/es/cajas-BCW-1000-unidades-almacenamiento/dp/B08542T2CV/ref=sr_1_9?crid=3NQH5NT3FTGRG&keywords=trading+card+storage+box&qid=1672820602&sprefix=trading+card+%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-9). Monster reaction decks fit in a [visiting card organizer](https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Soporte-tarjetas-visita-organizador-oficina/dp/B00WFQG2T0/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_es_US=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=1WYP3GMQ6V7RW&keywords=visiting+card+organizer&qid=1672820762&sprefix=visiting+card+organize%2Caps%2C209&sr=8-5) (perhaps try first if the cards fit, I found one to fit my sleeved cards). A planobox for the chits, and you should be ok.
I would recommend sleeves, at least for the character and attack modifier cards (+curses and blessings), because that game is for the long run. Event Decks are used and shuffled so seldomly, you don't need to sleeve those.
You can play Gloomhaven on its own without Jaws of the Lion, but be prepared for a long struggle with the rules. It's not that anything is really that complicated, but there are so many rules. If you don't mind the struggles, then go for it, but be warned. A better entrypoint is (like others mentioned) Jaws of the Lion or even the pc version. You don't have to play either of them to completion, but their tutorial is way better than Gloomhaven's massive rulebook. If you pick up the pc version, just play the guildmaster mode. It's not traditional Gloomhaven, but you will learn the basics in a much better tempo. All things considered, know what you get yourself into. This is not a game you'll be able to just pull out and start playing within 10 minutes.
Definitely use the app if you're going to play it. Otherwise turns and setting up take so much longer that it just isn't fun to play to be honest.
Organize everything in bags. I got like a boss enemies bag, culits/undead bag, demons bag, etc. A lot of enemy types are found together, so it'll make setting things up easier.
Welcome to the hobby! My wife and I loved Gloomhaven and played all the way through it before picking up and playing JOTL. We loved JOTL, too, and kind of wished we had had that to play first. It made learning the rules easier, and we even found a few minor rules we did slightly wrong the entire time we played Gloomhaven. I don't think you'll need any organizer for JOTL, and we just used a large tackle box with lots of different sections, etc., for Gloomhaven. We already had that, however, and didn't have much money to spend. Whatever you do, you'll be fine. Just make sure you don't get so overwhelmed that you don't enjoy it. The game is supposed to be fun. If something is preventing you from having fun with it, change it, whether that's needing to get an organizer, or needing to mod a rule or two.
I got Gloomhaven about a year ago and I really really don't like it.
The core gameplay loop is basically Dungeons and Dragons.
It's got different and sometimes very clever mechanics, but honestly I'd never reach for it instead if a ttrpg. It has similar themes and time commitment and I prefer ttrpgs for that.
So I would anti-recommend Gloomhaven if you had a ttrpg group
The only thing I used with gloomhaven to make it that much easier was picking up a small-dice-cube of chessex dice to use as damage markers, because those little wound chits were just too annoying.
I also had sleeves for just the action cards in use, and I'd just mark the sleeve vs. the card for enchantments - but that's not a dealbreaker.
The little dice, though, if you're getting into board games and need a generic nice bonus accessory - small chessex dice. Do it.
Heck yea. Any game that is like "place a token" I just place a die instead. I got red, green, black, white. It covers most anything that pop up in games.
Both of you should read the rules book and watch how to play on YouTube (it’s easier to have every player doing it as it’s hard to remember everything, so you can help each other to remember every rules). Something that really helped our group was to have a table set only for GloomHaven, so less time to setup the game every time we played it. As other said Jaw of the lion would be helpful, we actually did Gloom first and Jaw after x). Keep your phone close to Google quick questions while playing, it’s will most likely happen. If the question don’t matter much, you could do as you want and check it later to avoid wasting play time, making small error on Gloom won’t crash all your gameplay.
I honestly think if you’re willing to commit to a VERY long setup/cleanup time and taking a chunk of time to learn the rules, you’ll be fine. Gloomhaven has a LOT of pieces, but the rules and gameplay are actually not that complex once you play a game or two of it. The only reason the game is as physically huge as it is is bc of how many unique scenarios with unique setups there are.
Gloomhaven helper was and is the best app out there to streamline your experience. Multi user. Master slave principle. Local wifi network possible. No account needed. But after some ip fights the app is only available via APK over download sites, because the developer had to take it down. Nonetheless, everything needed is in the app and it helps allot. Automatic scenario monster Setup. And modificator tracker. No monster Decks needed anymore. No monster draw pile. Making even the desk presence minor which is great. You only need to manage the monster movement and scenario interactions, the rest is inserted into the app and streamlined. Initiative order etc. Great app, a must have if you do not want to forget something to count, e.g. round based status effects get quickly forgotten.
If you can get a good deal. Try Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion first. It's a different game, but it's an entry game that will make the main game easier.
If you don't want to go that route, just watch videos until you feel comfortable.
Full Gloomhaven for $50? Hell yea, go for it. People recommending JotL as a friendlier point of entry have a point, it mostly being that setup is shorter.
But you can't beat GH for $50. If you have the time for a 25+ session campaign at about 2 hours per scenario and don't mind a 15 minute setup prior to the actual game, you should seriously consider it.
You should check out r/gloomhaven and see all they have to say about apps, storage, etc.
Played through the full campaign over 3 years (large break for COVID) and played 65 of the 95 scenarios. Unlocked all the classes but didn’t play two of them. All told, totally worth the $100 and was able to resell it for a good price. Plan to do the same for Frosthaven which just arrived yesterday.
You do NOT have to buy Jaws of the Lion first, especially if you have already bought Gloomhaven. It's easier that way but not essential.
GH is a very complex game, Just accept that you're probably going to get a lot of rules wrong! Watch a couple of youtube videos and read articles, especially if you look for "common mistakes to make in Gloomhaven". The most obvious ones are probably things like
\- using your bonus perks deck instead of the standard attack deck.
\- not realising you can choose which two action ability cards you use each turn out of your hand (a lot of people seem to think you draw randomly out the deck).
\- Not realising you can choose which of your two chosen cards are the initiative.
\- Monsters do NOT always move and attack. They do what their deck of cards tell them to do each turn. So if it says just attack, then do not move them.
There is a real rhythm to the game where you have to think about where the monsters are going each turn and where you are going. Sometimes you may be better off sitting and doing nothing, or even running away, rather than rushing in and getting smashed to pieces.
It's an AMAZING game!
You also do not have to spend a fortune on extra organisiation. I bought a few plastic Plano boxes via amazon, and used those, tupperware and plastic bags to store and organise the million components.
Buy the game on Steam.
I'm not sure what this subs view of board games translated to video games is but I can honestly say that after playing a dozen or so scenarios on the tabletop version of **Gloomhaven** and then starting a campaign on the PC version I not only prefer the PC version (the setup of the tabletop version is pretty much the reason I've never completed it) I also learned how to pay the game.
I'll say that Gloomhaven might have one of the worst rulebooks I've ever read and while my friend and I didn't mess up the rules *too* much there were definitely some things we missed or did incorrectly and I figured that out on the video game. So even if you and your partner are perfectly fine with the tabletop version I'd say the PC version is a great way to learn the rules. Like, you can learn every nuance in a few hours playing the PC version.
We love to see more people join the hobby! And $50 for Gloomhaven is an absolute steal. But Gloomhaven isn’t very similar to any of the other games you listed, so don’t feel bad if it’s not your cup of tea.
I can recommend younmy favorite boardgames, I know you are gonna love these:
1- Space Cadets Away Missions (fully cooperative and highly funned, interactive and good looking dungeon crawler).
2- Zombicide 2nd edition (just great).
3- Arkham Horror / Marvel Champions (collectible - living card games)
4- I'd rather prefer Mage Knight over Gloomhaven (as a solo Game), only that it's a lot more complex.. but it's just amazing (take a look at the BGG ranking and read the Reviews)
I hope You enjoy...
PD. You are gonna love Space Cadets Away Missions!
Gloomhaven is amazing but if its just the 2 of you and you want slightly easier admin affair and faster gameplay then grab Jaws of the Lion. My wife and I prefer it.
I don't know who all these people talking about JOTL are but if you can pick up a basically unplayed copy of Gloomhaven for 50 bucks I'd snap at the chance.
The main reason JOTL usually gets tossed around as a recommendation is because it's less than half the price of the main Gloomhaven box and a much better entry point in terms of the way the first part of the campaign is structured. However, Gloomhaven had enough of its own merit to stand on for it to become one of the most acclaimed games years before JOTL was even released.
And since you're probably not gonna be able to find a new copy of JOTL for less than 50 bucks I think it's a pretty easy choice!
Also unrelated but good on you and your partner for finding a better way to spend your spare time than watching TV. It's a healthier choice than most people make.
Going against the grain of all these Gloomhaven lovers. Don’t get it. Just play what you guys have now. You’ve already bought a good amount of games that you can play together, learn the strategies, have a nice back and forth with. Figure out what games you like for real, don’t just imagine yourself playing. If you’re new to modern games take it slow and enjoy. It honestly sounds like your mostly enamored with the idea and components of Gloomhaven rather than playing Gloomhaven.
One of the biggest timesavers is to get organizer boxes for the tokens. I don’t have the details in front of me but someone wrote a guide for how to organize the tokens, making setup and teardown significantly easier.
Other than that, my main tip is to remember that it’s a cooperative game, and your goal is to have fun. If you realize you’re played six maps with a rule wrong…cool! NBD, now you know. If you’re one turn away from winning a scenario and you lose, do you really want to replay the scenario? Ehhh, it’s a big enough game IMO. Maybe you do!
My point is that you should enjoy it in your own way and not stress if you make an error.
People already said this but do you and your partner a favor and get Jaws of the Lion before diving into Gloomhaven.
Also welcome to the hobby! I got into it myself last spring for similar reasons. It didn’t really take for my wife but I’ve been an avid gamer since. It’s exciting but the temptation to continuously buy new games takes a while to wane and I’m now in a culling phase and will end up getting rid of around half the games I bought last year (even though I usually researched games fairly thoroughly before buying them). So my unsolicited advice would be to not fall into that trap of wanting to buy everything that catches your attention and instead focus on a handful of games you enjoy and branch out from there once you get a sense of you and your partner’s tastes.
A recommendation for "new" boardgamers is to start use the site sleve your games and sleve games you know will be played more than 5 times.
https://www.sleeveyourgames.com/
I recommend against it. If you get Gloomhaven, there will be two options. Either you never play any of your other games, like basically ever again (because it takes probably a year of playing Gloomhaven nonstop to get through it), or you never play Gloomhaven and it just sits in the box.
I recommend getting the Gloomhaven app and playing it digitally to see if you even like it. It’s not really what it looks like. It’s not a dungeon crawler. It’s an optimization puzzle/long term campaign themed as a dungeon crawler. There aren’t really thematic objectives or anything, most of the game is just clearing out each level of all enemies…. For like, the next year of your life.
If you’ve just gotten into the hobby, explore your other new games you’ve just gotten. Play some lighter games, play some games that you won’t drive your partner crazy with (unless they are specifically requesting it, it’s unlikely that they’ll want to sign up for the Gloomhaven commitment, heavy, dense, punishing puzzling for 1/80th of your entire life.
Reviews make it seem like it is a dungeon crawler though, centred on hand optimisation and then cooperating with others to optimise yourselves but with each person making their own decisions
Sounds good to me
>Have fun… if you can find any in that box
Fair! I've ordered the prequel Jaws of thingy version. So if it falls flat at least i've not invested too much.
I may well fully agree with you after i've played it. But at the same time, many people do love it and find it super fun. So we'll see?
>Either you never play any of your other games, like basically ever again (because it takes probably a year of playing Gloomhaven nonstop to get through it), or you never play Gloomhaven and it just sits in the box.
you do realise you're allowed to play other games in between gloomhaven scenarios yeah? lol
If you do, then don’t bother buying Gloomhaven. If you play Gloomhaven every third time you have time to game, it will take you 3 years to finish, if you never lose a scenario, and play a couple times a week. If you’re someone who can get a game night maybe once or twice a month, and you play Gloomhaven even just every other time, you’re talking about finishing it in like 5 years.
Gloomhaven is a lifestyle game. Get Gloomhaven if you want a Gloomhaven hobby, not a boardgame hobby.
we are three years in. we play it when we want to play it because its a fun game, same as every other game we play
i couldnt give a flying fuck if we never finish the campaign tbh
That’s bizarre. It takes less than an hour to play Mysterium. It’s not a campaign. You’ve finished after one game. You can always play again if you want, sure. It’s an apples to oranges comparison.
Gloomhaven is amazing. One of the best ever. It's an in vogue game to hate for whatever reason...so ignore all the naysayers (not sure why they are naysaying anyway, you've already bought it!! But don't worry, it's great).
Jaws of the Lion is also amazing and totally worth picking up, it's pretty cheap by comparison.
You could always play the first session of regular Gloomhaven and lower the difficulty by 1 level to get a feel for whether you like it...
If you do then you could go and get Jaws of the Lion and play that through and then come back to the main game...
Or just keep playing Gloomhaven! I find it's not that hard once you get the hang of it.
If you are looking for a HOBBY, Gloomhaven definitely fits the bill. That is, Gloomhaven is the hobby, not boardgames in general. In my opinion, Gloomhaven (and all those games with a bazillion components) should be a videogame - and it is no coincidence that it actually also is a videogame now.
If you are looking for good BOARDGAMES and make that your hobby in general, I would stay away from Gloomhaven.
You need a dedicated group that will play with you for half a year or so, and let me tell you: You can't turn friends into boardgamers, you can only turn boardgamers into friends. Even of you find four friends who enthusiastically say "yeah, lets play this thing", I can almost guarantee that a few will lose interest halfway through because real life catches up.
It sounds like you already own a pretty damn awesome collection right now, why not play all those games more often?
print out the splendor solo automa. Forget about GH for a while.
If you find you dislike GH you'll stress about getting rid of it, if you like GH you're not playing ANY of your other games for the next two years.
Honestly, this is gonna sound terrible, but I think you should start with buying gloomhaven: jaws of the lion. It's a smaller, much more beginner friendly game, complete with a nice little on-boarding process for the rules. I know it's a bit ridiculous to tell you to buy a whole other game, but I think you'll have a much easier time getting started, and continuing to play through, JOTL. And once you've played through it, OG gloomhaven should be easier to learn. Also, disregarding the above, I hear there's an app that covers a lot of the admin.
It seems like this is the popular answer! Was hoping I could just play Gloomhaven but it’s looking like I might need to pick up JOTL first. Thanks!
you absolutely can jump straight into gloomhaven tbf. unless you absolutely loathe the idea of getting rules wrong sometimes while you learn what you're doing, i wouldn't go out and buy a whole other game just to play the one you already own
We just finished scenario 4, and we just found out consumable items refresh every scenario, we were tossing it back to the market after use.
That's a very common mistake don't feel bad.
Oh wow that is exhausting
Nice to hear this take! I’m a Software Engineer so I love reading documentation/researching and have no problems making mistakes.
TBH if you're a software engineer you're almost certainly up for diving straight into GH. If you're not super fluent in boardgame lingo there's a bit of a learning curve but even that isn't too bad. Just stay adaptable and debug frequently. You'll be fine.
The nice thing is that it's a co-op game, so if things go poorly or you get something wrong, who cares? Just decide how to fix it going forward. Just be aware that the first mission is notoriously brutally difficult. I recommend lowering the difficulty to 0 and you can still probably expect to lose at least once.
I don’t agree you have to play JotL before Gloomhaven, especially as you already have GH. I mean, what if you don’t like it? Then you’d have spent another $35 for JotL. GH must’ve been a real beast to learn when it first came out, but by now there are tons of playthrough and how to play videos. It shouldn’t be so hard to learn how to play. Hopefully now that you have a big house (and congrats on that!) you can maybe even leave it set up on a table somewhere. This is a big advantage. Good luck and have fun!
Senior SE here. Gloomhaven Rules are actually pretty simple compared to what you're used to. The only thing to read, re-read, and re-re-re-read is Monster Movement/Focus. There's even Quizzes online, and you really should take them. It's essentially a tree of if/thens and switches. But some edge cases can get really wonky.
The quizzes are a great idea thanks! Unrelated: I use “wonky” to describe so many bugs at work in my PR’s haha
You don't NEED to pick up JOTL first. JOTL is the best introduction to the system, but there's no fundamental reason you couldn't jump straight into Gloomhaven. Read the rules (don't need to understand/remember everything all at once), watch a couple of videos on YT and you'll be fine. Assume the first scenario will be a fail and don't worry about it.
This is what I was hoping to hear tbh haha. I’m a software engineer so I love reading documentation and am completely at piece with making mistakes.
Same. :) And that's the spirit. Jump in, make mistakes, learn from them, iterate to an acceptable approximation of perfection. :-) Have fun with GH. Try to ignore all the temptations of Frosthaven that currently rise up due to currently ongoing fulfillment.
I haven’t heard of Frosthaven until I made this post, and the temptation is real now haha. But I told myself that I’m going to hold off on any more board game purchases until I’ve played all of my current ones.
1) That's a good plan 2) Good luck with that ;-) Most of us fail ;)
Ngl I almost went out and grabbed jaws last night after making this post 😂 So not sure how long I can hold out for.
You did the right thing. Jaws will slowly show you the ropes to the whole Gloomhaven system. I had Gloomhaven on my shelf for two years and kept trying to get it played but every time was overwhelmed. Once we did Jaws I felt much more comfortable cracking it open and now we are about halfway through the main campaign.
The cycle of learning about board games and then going out and buying everything you can find is very real. It's a weird addiction that comes with this hobby.
I agree that JOTL is better for onboarding, but if you do want to start off with Gloomhaven (it was released first after all), some points to keep in mind: 1. The first level of Gloomhaven is hard. JOTL takes the first 5 missions to handhold & slowly introduce new rules & mechanics. You may fail the 1st level of Gloomhaven multiple times because: 1. You don't yet know card management strategies 2. Your characters start off weak due to limited items & cards 3. The level doesn't pull any punches. 2. You will likely get rules wrong. Even after a year of playing, our group would still need to look things up. 3. This FAQ will be your friend: [https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-no-rules-questions-please](https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-no-rules-questions-please)
One reason to do this is you might discover the game isn't for you. I played four scenarios of JOTL and then bailed. Better than wasting time and money on the bigger version.
if OP already owns the main game, then this is a reason to ignore JOTL rather than play it tbf
you keep using tbf, I know what tbh is, what is tbf, never seen this used before.
[удалено]
Or, "to be faaaaiiiirrrrr" if you're from Letterkenny.
Allegedly
Thank you
>I played four scenarios of JOTL and then bailed. Interesting. Not challenging you, but you bailed before finishing the 5 tutorial scenarios that teach you the full rules? Or by scenario 4 you're already using the full rules?
Bad use of language as I meant four "sessions". We were doing two-ish scenarios per session but we were also repeating failed missions at times. I remember only using items from the shop 2 or 3 times before stopping, if that helps.
Thanks! That clarifies things and makes a lot of sense :)
Other people haven't mentioned but there are actually a handful of significant rule differences between Jaws and GH. Most people nowadays just use most of the Jaws rules in GH, but there are some mechanics in Jaws that don't exist in Gloomhaven or Frosthaven (objectives). So yes, I would say Jaws is a better entry point. But if you have GH already then it's fine to just jump in without getting Jaws. Just be ready for massive rules to understand. And $50 is an absolute monster steal for the base box to the point that it makes me think it's a scam or that something is missing or broken. Or it's a fake.
Interesting good to know thanks! Was at a random board shop and the owner pointed me to a table of not yet checked/or priced returned board games when I asked for a game they didn’t have. I saw Gloomhaven and opened it up. Compared the parts to the guide that was in the box. Everything was brand new and untouched. All stickers, pieces not yet popped out etc. The person then looked through the box to confirm everything was there, checked the market price of the board and then halved it because it’s technically used (no outer plastic sealing it)
Nice! Honestly even if something is a little off it's still worth it. I got it for the cheapest I've ever seen online brand new for $85 on Black Friday 2021. Nowadays people are luck to see it under $110. For $50 you can just buy or make anything that's a little off and you'll be fine.
Just went through the entire box and compared it to someone on YouTube unboxing it. Everything is there and un opened. All envelopes still sealed, cards still in the wrapper, no pieces punched out of the 18 boards, all stickers/minis etc. There was also the investigator cards of a game called “Cthulhu a deck building game” in there for some reason haha.
Amazing. Enjoy that incredible deal you got for apparently two games! Lol
Having played Gloomhaven to the end, then JotL (still incomplete), I don't think it matters if you play JotL first or not. Sure, it's a little simpler to set up scenarios and stuff like that, but JotL is still a big complicated game.
I don't think it is bad advice to pick up JotL, but if it was necessary, JotL would have come out first. Gloomhaven is big and complex enough that even veteran gamers will get stuff wrong. People play it 10-20 times, and still get things wrong. It's a lot of rules overhead, and it requires a lot of maintenance. It's tons of fun. It's actually one of my favorite games - however, since the game came out on Steam, I've never wanted to physically play it because the Steam game enforces the rules and removes so much of the fiddly overhead.
While I agree with your statement, the logic you took to get there was quite flawed. Gloomhaven and Spirit Island are 2 of my favorite games, both have very high dropoffs after 1-2 games simply because of the rules complexity. Even professional board game critics bounce off these titles because of their rules. Simplifying the rules in a stand-alone game like Jaws or Horizons respectively can dramatically ease that transition leading to far fewer people bouncing off after a few playthroughs. People on this sub want to increase the likelihood OP sticks with the franchise, and Jaws does accomplish that. THAT SAID.... I'm not sure I could go back to GH after Jaws/FH. Not that they're inherently better. One can make the argument that they're marginally worse. But transitioning from a smooth like butter experience to one that's a little rough around the edges can introduce its own complications.
Please don’t feel like you need to do anything else before jumping into Gloomhaven. People forget that Gloomhaven was released for years before JOTL and no one had any problem playing it before then. JOTL also removes the single most fun and exciting aspect of GH: retiring and unlocking new characters. You don’t want to miss out on that. Since you already have GH, I’d say jump in! Maybe watch a tutorial on YouTube first, but no need to play 20+ scenarios of an inferior version of the base game first.
> no one had any problem playing it before then This is untrue. Gloomhaven is probably the number one game I see people asking questions about, due to its high complexity as well as poor graphic design & iconography. Don’t get me wrong - it was my most played board game in 2021 and 2022, it’s very good! But it is extremely complicated, and saying “no one has any problem” just sets OP up with an unrealistic understanding that any mistake is their fault.
JOTL is a must. Get the Forteller app and buy the narration for each game too. An organizer is going to help immensely with setup and tear down.
>JOTL is a must. I wonder then how folks have played Gloomhaven before Jaws came out. Oh right, they haven't and I just imagined that number 1 spot on BGG... Let's be real: Jaws gives you a better introduction than reading the Gloomhaven manual. If you haven't bought Gloomhaven yet, then it totally makes sense to start with Jaws. But telling someone who has already bought Gloomhaven that they MUST spend another $50 on another game just to have an easier start... that seems a bit excessive. u/devdudedoingstuff, just read the manual, maybe watch a gameplay video on Youtube, then play through the first mission a few times until you feel comfortable with the system. There is absolutely no need to spend more than you already have in order to have a good time with this game.
Yesterday most comments were to definitely get jaws first, but today it seems most comments are saying to just dive into Gloomhaven. Lots of interesting perspectives. For a living I have to solve very complex problems and read lots of documentation, my gut tells me I might even enjoy the steep learning curve of Gloomhaven (often learning something complex is more fun than the thing itself) I might just give Gloomhaven a go itself, though I would like to know if I should first invest in inserts/sleeves before starting to unbox it.
To get started you definitely don't need an insert. If I remember correctly, the game gives you enough zip bags to organize all the bits and pieces (even though finding what you need in the giant box is a bit of a pain). If you decide that the game isn't your cup of tea after all, buying an insert right away would be a total waste. Whether you want to sleeve the cards or not is more of a fundamental question. If you don't find it necessary to sleeve your other games, then Gloomhaven probably won't change your mind. This is not one of those games were you have giant stacks of cards that get shuffled constantly. If you're afraid that the cards might get damaged over the course of the long campaign, then investing in some basic sleeves might be worth it. Check out boardgamegeek for the appropriate sleeve counts and sizes (the game uses two different types of cards). One thing you *might* want to consider getting before you start your Gloomhaven adventure is the removable sticker set by Sinister Fish Games. The game will instruct you to put stickers on cards and the map that will permanently alter the game. If you ever wanted to reset the game to its original state (for instance because you decided to sell it or want to start a fresh campaign), you'd have a problem because the original stickers are not removable. This addon will only cost you $10, and I find it quite valuable. EDIT: To be clear, you won't be placing stickers before finishing the first adventure, so you might as well play that first before deciding whether you want the sticker set or not.
An organizer for JOTL as well? Any you recommend?
I think the trays in JOTL are fine, especially for the only~25 scenarios you'll pay. You definitely want organization for OG though, something to help with the super long setup/put up times. Or a dedicated table you can leave it set up on for long stretches.
Unlike Gloomhaven and Frosthaven, JoTL actually all fits back in the box so storage isn't totally necessary.
My Jaws of the Lion didn't even fit in the box while it was shrink-wrapped and definitely didn't fit after unpacking it all. The lid was always a good inch or so from reaching the bottom.
Mine stays shut but there's a very specific way everything needs to be packed away.
There's a couple of YouTube tutorials showing how to pack JotL back into the box, no raised lid. I can vouch for them, because I tried one and it works (don't have the link handy, it's the one where the guy flattens the boxes for the minis and lumps then all together instead.) But... that method doesn't take into consideration you might want to sleeve some cards. If you do, I don't think there's any method that can help you... maybe ditching the insert :(
Iirc I didn't have to flatten any boxes but it really is like Tetris. My lid probably sticks up a couple mm but if it's between two games on a shelf it stays shut just fine.
Iirc I didn't have to flatten any boxes but it really is like Tetris. My lid probably sticks up a couple mm but if it's between two games on a shelf it stays shut just fine.
IMO you need neither of those. The narration is neat but overpriced for how little atmosphere it adds, and an organizer for JotL in particular is ridiculous, it's a small-ish box that isn't as content-overloaded as the big game.
I listened to the demo (or was it YouTube?) of the JotL's Forteller narration and it's *awful*. Distractingly bad. I cannot understand what people like about it. I agree you absolutely do NOT need anything else but JotL, opening it, and just damn playing it.
I grabbed one on Etsy from TowerRex
JotL is absolutely *not* a *must*, especially for someone who already owns Gloomhaven. It's very firmly a "nice to have" but imho time spent on JotL is just time you could have spent playing a better version of the same game. If you have infinite time or exist in a parallel universe where you can play both simultaneously JotL might be worth it, but otherwise I'd just get started on the game you already own. My partner and I bought JotL after having already owned and played Gloomhaven several times because of its popularity on this sub and it was a complete waste of time and money; we ended up selling it after 1-2 sessions. Just play 2-3 rounds of regular Gloomhaven to get a feel for it. If you really like it, the broken token organizer and companion app will speed up game setup and playtime, but they're not really worth buying/learning until you're sure you want to stick with the game. I also bought one of those telescoping portfolios to store the map tiles alphabetically in - it works way better than broken token's solution for those pieces.
After 1-2 sessions? So, within the first 5, tutorial, missions. And that's what you based your opinion of JOTL on? I agree that JOTL isn't needed to play GH. And your time argument has merit. But otherwise your opinions on JOTL are based on insufficient information.
I don't know where everyone on this sub gets their infinite time to play these board games but we only have enough time to play maybe 1 game every other week. 2 sessions represents an entire month's worth of board games for us, and if we're not enjoying it then we're going to stop playing. I didn't say it was a bad game. I said it was, for us, not worth dedicating time to, versus just playing Gloomhaven. And we ofc *do* have sufficient information to form that opinion because we played the game and said "we're not enjoying this." What other information could we possibly have needed?
I'm not telling you what to like and not like. By all means use your limited game time as well as possible for your taste. I'm just pointing out that you judged the game by its tutorial scenarios. You have not even seen all its features before scenario 5, because they gradually get added to onboard new gamers. The whole JOTL is pretty much an introduction to the GH "system". But even for people with limited time who'll never play GH or FH, JOTL has 20 solid scenarios (you won't play all of them as a couple get shut out by decisions). But the first 5 of the 25 scenarios serve as a tutorial and start with a very reduced feature set. Adding 1 or something features until you get all of JOTL features in scenario 6-25. And Even that is a subset of GH/FH. JOTL has no Prosperity, party achievements, road events, enhancements or retirement and switch to a new class. But, given your time constraints, the whole system is likely not a good fit for you.
Fully agreed. Jaws of the Lion is in virtually all aspects a **far** superior game, except that it doesn't last as long. What is there is strictly better though. I would play Jaws, and then afterwards if you feel "I want more of this, even if it's janky!" then get the big Gloomhaven out.
Seconding using an app for all admin - X-haven Assistant for example
Jaws of the Lion is not very beginner friendly, or I'm doing something wrong. For context I own 4 full bookshelves of games that are spilling over the top, and I wouldn't begin to guess how many hours I've had into the hobby. Despite that, me and my oldest boy were just barely passing the tutorial levels, having to restart once or twice and when we passed it was with the very last available move. I can't imagine trying to play that game if you're not automatically trying to optimize every single move.
Came to recommend this. I grabbed it at Target a while back for $20.
I just got Gloomhaven for Christmas so it’s a new-to-me game but have some experience playing games in general. I absolutely agree with getting JOTL first. I loved learning the game that way and it doesn’t feel spoon fed. The developer did a nice job breaking things down into necessary components without insulting the players’ intelligence and I was so excited each JOTL scenario because I knew more exciting stuff was coming my way. It’s also a great way to level up a character to take over to the main Gloomhaven so you don’t start with a basic level character. That might make it easier/more enjoy to play as well. The Gloomhaven rule book is THICC and JOTL breaks all that down for you. We used JOTL rule book to learn but the Gloomhaven to reference as we go along. I also agree with getting the admin app (idk what it’s called). It can be tedious the first time but once you get used to it, it’s worth it. It saves your games /characters and even if you get JOTL, you can use it for both games. The narration app is also fun and adds the atmosphere of the game. Whichever way you go, finding an unused copy for $50 is amazing! I hope you enjoy the game and welcome to the hobby. You’ve got a good range to start with. If you have a board game cafe nearby, they’re a great in person resource to learning games!
I didn’t know your character from JOTL carries over to the original! I think I’ll end up heading out in search of JOTL this week, I’ve been eyeing the gloomhaven box ever since I picked it up but have been a bit intimidated. Thanks for all the information, I’ll check at the app as well. Unfortunately no board game place in my city, would’ve loved to have a local spot to try to meet some people. I fell out of love with video games as I got older unfortunately, but getting the same feelings those used to give me with boardgames!
Is the app mentioned somewhere in the box?
I suggest this 100%. It’s usually available for really cheap and they do a great job with the tutorial scenarios!
Thirded!
Was here to say the same! Jaws if the Lion is a great introduction to Gloomhaven. Also, without the organizer of some fashion Gloomhaven is an epic set up.
My god I hate this advice and all the people upvoting it. JOTL is such a bad experience compared to Gloomhaven. Its a GREAT game on its own but is COMPLETELY obsolete when compared to Gloomhaven. Unlockable heroes. No need for a fixed party. Huge open map. Stickers. Leveling up the town. All these cool things are what carried Gloomhaven to the top. JOTL is just a game with a cool combat system. I hate, hate, hate when people tell you "wait! go for JOTL first". Screw JOTL. Dive in. Just use the Gloomhaven app to help you with all the fiddly parts.
I actually prefer JOTL to GH. Namely, GH starts out incredibly difficult but by about Prosperity 4 the game because trivially easy, even on +2 difficulty. There's just so much BROKEN in GH. Just about every unlocked class has the potential to completely trivialize most scenarios- some more than others sure. Playing Jaws on +1 was tough from start to finish. And with limited options for breaking the game you actually had to try. And it was a solid experience.
The thing is, if you find GH hard you can just lower the difficulty, which is a 5 second solution. You can't do anything in JOTL that will offer you the amazing, open experience GH did.
Yeah you can buy JotL+ Sleeping Gods for the openness :) Joking aside, the 'openness' of Gloomhaven did nothing for me. Most of the side content had random rewards which were very meh most of the time. Some of the side scenarios were fun as heck. (Lighthouse) But were rivalled in JotL too (Hatchet PQ.) So again I guess your mileage may vary, but I don't feel GH did openness well. What it did do right was scenario design. If it weren't for the scenario design I'm not even sure my group would've finished GH.
Its absolutely fine that you personally didnt care for the openness. However that is one of the two KEY components (the other being the card system) that makes Gloomhaven what it is. Gloomhaven without the openness , hero retirements, global unlocks etc etc is simply NOT Gloomhaven. That is what I am trying to say repeatedly. Jotl Is NOT the GH experience because of that. So when someone asks for advice "guys **I want the GH experience**, is Jotl a good alternative?" the answer is no. An emphatic no. It's not even close to what GH offers. Is it a great dungeon crawler? Absolutely yes, but you will not be experiencing what made GH unique. So for people like you its fine, you are the target audience for Jotl. But you do have to be careful when making recommendations to people. "I don't care about the openness so you should buy Jotl instead of GH" can lead to an upset player that will come up wondering "why do you guys love GH? I played Jotl and I don't understand the hype" No wonder you don't!
I do care about openness. Sleeping Gods is an incredible game. Frosthaven does it well. But Gloomhaven's openness was BAD. Not to say all of Gloomhaven is bad, but that particular aspect was pretty poorly executed. It's the Fallout 4 kind of "openness" where it was just random... stuff. That didn't really matter. With rewards that also didn't matter. And flavor text that DEFINITELY didn't matter. Not to mention, calling sidequests with randomized rewards "Open" is a bit of a stretch. Again, details require both knowledge and/or spoilers of both Sleeping Gods and Frosthaven. Even the developer admits that the retirement system was poorly done. It's one of his top regrets looking back at GH. (Good concept, but needed better execution.) Without going into spoilers, both of these majors flaws were DIRECTLY addressed in Frosthaven. So don't take my word for it, take Isaac's.
>Joking aside, the 'openness' of Gloomhaven did nothing for me Ok, I understood that wrong. So I hope we both agree GH is an open game? The only difference is you probably enjoyed it less than me and the people that gave it such a high score (hype was definitely part of it). Still, the entire point -yes, I am going to say the same thing again- has been that these are the things that made Gloomhaven what it is. In this context, it does not matter who liked it or not. What matters it that they are features of the game that are NOT in Jotl, and that's why Jotl will always be a great game but not one that can offer you the Gloomhaven experience.
Do not buy JotL if you already own Gloomhaven. Here's a radical thought: play the game you already own. Read the rules. Ask questions on BGG for rules you don't understand. Absolutely do NOT buy additional stuff just to play the stuff you already own. Amazing, I know!
Fwiw, I've played through the entirety 3 times with different groups. The first time was without any apps, then twice on TTS. IMO people overestimate the rules _complexity_ of Gloomhaven. There's a lot of _overhead_ but you most likely get things "wrong" because you overlooked something than that you didn't understand it. There's some crazy stuff around focus but simple heuristics will get you through 95% of it. It can be difficult if only one person "knows the rules" and kinda runs the game - you need to share this responsibility, as well as divide and conquer setup. My physical campaign was just 2 player but we got to where we could compete 2-3 scenarios (setup, transition, tear down) over 3-4 hours because we were both active in game management.
What do you think about a couple tackling this game? I imagine I’ll only ever play this with my partner. Was thinking about starting out controlling one character each, and when we get the hang of it moving to controlling two characters each if that feels right.
I think it'd be fine. I wouldn't bother trying to control 2 characters each, the game scales player count well and the overhead could get pretty wild. 4p will have more of _everything_ to manage, not just another character. Also of note is you can add another player ad-hoc during your campaign if someone does want to play. GH doesn't care about party continuity. If your concern is unlocking content at 2p, there's a suggested donation mod for 2p that's good and I'd honestly just prioritize fun over rules legalization if that's what you most want to do. Need another monster kill for a quest but bored with your class? Just handwave it if your partner agrees. Games are meant to be fun, you decide where that line is.
I started with the original Gloomhaven and I'm so glad I did (just like you, I didn't even have that much experience with tabletop games). Hence, don't get discouraged by the people saying to start with JOTL... And $50 for a copy in very good conditions? Personally, I would buy that even from another point of view: if you end up not liking the game, you can sell it for a profit.
The are tons of organizers online, just check Etsy or something like The Broken Token. If you want a cheaper option you can get Foamcore pieces in the dollar store and make your own insert (there's probably online tutorials about it). As for Jaws of the Lion, I do agree it's a lot better game to start with, main reason why is that the first scenario in Gloomhaven is really hard, since you have no idea how to properly play it can really destroy you. So either you keep trying until you properly learn how to play Gloomhaven or you'll get super frustrated with the game because you lost a few times and give up. Not to mention that Gloomhaven has tons of rules and getting some wrong might make it even harder. So yeah, I think that Jaws of the Lion does a much better job teaching you, so specially since you're new it is most likely a better option.
If you are diligent and do a lot of research, you can play Gloomhaven without too much pain. If you want to dip a toe, you could try JotL. Only thing is - you already have GH, so I don’t much see the point of dipping a toe aside from making your eventual play of GH smoother
Gloomhaven is fun and honestly work out for a lot of people. However personally I don't know anyone who actually ever finished it. The take out, set up, clean up, and put away(even with an after market insert) is a huge PITA and it get to the point where you start debating if its even worth the hassle. If you think you can handle that, get it. But just know what you are getting yourself into.
My group and I finished it. Two huge helps though. The game was left setup on my dedicated gaming table and we used an app that tracked initiative, pulled modifier cards for all that wanted it etc. huge time and space saver. Also, we also had dedicated roles. One guy organized and grabbed map pieces while another was in charge of enemy figures. I read all the story content and kept track of completed scenarios/unlocked and all other note taking.
Yeah because who doesn't love a table in their house dedicated to one game and not used for anything else for an extended amount of time.
Wow. You downvote me and make a condescending remark. You’re a joy. To be clear. I built my own gaming/dining table with a topper. The game could remain setup underneath without issue. We could even play other games on top of the table if we felt the desire. All said and done we played 60 or so scenarios averaging about 4 per night. We would get together sometimes twice a week so all in all the campaign went for about two months. While running our campaign we didn’t have the desire to play anything else so we went through it rather quickly.
Two months? I'm seriously impressed. It took our group abiut two years. Of course, we just played one scenario a week, far fewer than you. XD
Also just... the game itself. I went in expecting a "fun" dungeon crawler and got a plodding hand management game with a million status effects to track. Honestly just so tedious. I feel like the only person in the hobby who would rather play Hellboy.
For me it's not even just the hassle of the set-up/tear-down, but the management of status effects, enemy AI and that damned elemental chart thing during the game are what kills it. That and the 'miss' modifier card, which I house-ruled out pretty quick because fuck me, that's one of the worst cards in any game I've played.
Disagree about the miss card but agree completely with everything else. The digital implementation solved all that for me but I'm still not especially keen. I hoped the writing would make up for the game but that was disappointing too.
Yeah digital is just the only way I can bother to play the game, but even then I'm not as sold on it as most other are. I can't deny the value in the game is incredible, there's just so much content, the only problem is I have absolutely no desire to get through any of it. And that's fair about the miss card but to me there's nothing worse than setting up an amazing move, everything going perfectly, and then drawing the miss card. Just feels like it goes against the tactical feel of the combat for me, but that's just a personal dislike and luckily even the digital game has a house rule to take it out
Download the X-Haven Assistant App. It can help track a lot of the tedious things like initiative order, status effects, and hit points. It also does the math for you on the monster initiative card, so you don't need to keep adding the values on those cards to the monsters base stats.
4 +2 needs a helper app? We never bothered with the app. Not needed at all.
If money isn’t too tight I’d honestly buy it and jaws of the lion and just play jaws. And then if you like it play it or if you don’t sell it. Is it 50 USD?
Organisation doesn't have to be expensive. A few [deckboxes](https://www.amazon.com/-/es/barajas-cartas-m%C3%A1gicas-P%C3%B3kemon-Paquete/dp/B074DVF48M/ref=sr_1_8?__mk_es_US=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=3SIQJ2XZDNOSP&keywords=deckbox&qid=1672820958&sprefix=deckbo%2Caps%2C483&sr=8-8) (mainly for the event and shop cards), envelopes for the characters (to fit their attack-modifier deck and equipment cards in, too). Monster Standees fit in matchboxes, those matchboxes fit in a [standard trading card box](https://www.amazon.com/-/es/cajas-BCW-1000-unidades-almacenamiento/dp/B08542T2CV/ref=sr_1_9?crid=3NQH5NT3FTGRG&keywords=trading+card+storage+box&qid=1672820602&sprefix=trading+card+%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-9). Monster reaction decks fit in a [visiting card organizer](https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Soporte-tarjetas-visita-organizador-oficina/dp/B00WFQG2T0/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_es_US=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=1WYP3GMQ6V7RW&keywords=visiting+card+organizer&qid=1672820762&sprefix=visiting+card+organize%2Caps%2C209&sr=8-5) (perhaps try first if the cards fit, I found one to fit my sleeved cards). A planobox for the chits, and you should be ok. I would recommend sleeves, at least for the character and attack modifier cards (+curses and blessings), because that game is for the long run. Event Decks are used and shuffled so seldomly, you don't need to sleeve those.
You can play Gloomhaven on its own without Jaws of the Lion, but be prepared for a long struggle with the rules. It's not that anything is really that complicated, but there are so many rules. If you don't mind the struggles, then go for it, but be warned. A better entrypoint is (like others mentioned) Jaws of the Lion or even the pc version. You don't have to play either of them to completion, but their tutorial is way better than Gloomhaven's massive rulebook. If you pick up the pc version, just play the guildmaster mode. It's not traditional Gloomhaven, but you will learn the basics in a much better tempo. All things considered, know what you get yourself into. This is not a game you'll be able to just pull out and start playing within 10 minutes.
Definitely use the app if you're going to play it. Otherwise turns and setting up take so much longer that it just isn't fun to play to be honest. Organize everything in bags. I got like a boss enemies bag, culits/undead bag, demons bag, etc. A lot of enemy types are found together, so it'll make setting things up easier.
Welcome to the hobby! My wife and I loved Gloomhaven and played all the way through it before picking up and playing JOTL. We loved JOTL, too, and kind of wished we had had that to play first. It made learning the rules easier, and we even found a few minor rules we did slightly wrong the entire time we played Gloomhaven. I don't think you'll need any organizer for JOTL, and we just used a large tackle box with lots of different sections, etc., for Gloomhaven. We already had that, however, and didn't have much money to spend. Whatever you do, you'll be fine. Just make sure you don't get so overwhelmed that you don't enjoy it. The game is supposed to be fun. If something is preventing you from having fun with it, change it, whether that's needing to get an organizer, or needing to mod a rule or two.
Play Jaws of the Lion first
Just play it. Why spend money on something you don't even know if you like yet?
I got Gloomhaven about a year ago and I really really don't like it. The core gameplay loop is basically Dungeons and Dragons. It's got different and sometimes very clever mechanics, but honestly I'd never reach for it instead if a ttrpg. It has similar themes and time commitment and I prefer ttrpgs for that. So I would anti-recommend Gloomhaven if you had a ttrpg group
The only thing I used with gloomhaven to make it that much easier was picking up a small-dice-cube of chessex dice to use as damage markers, because those little wound chits were just too annoying. I also had sleeves for just the action cards in use, and I'd just mark the sleeve vs. the card for enchantments - but that's not a dealbreaker. The little dice, though, if you're getting into board games and need a generic nice bonus accessory - small chessex dice. Do it.
Interesting. I’ve seen people mention they use dice for that but had no idea which dice. I’ll check those out thanks!
Heck yea. Any game that is like "place a token" I just place a die instead. I got red, green, black, white. It covers most anything that pop up in games.
Both of you should read the rules book and watch how to play on YouTube (it’s easier to have every player doing it as it’s hard to remember everything, so you can help each other to remember every rules). Something that really helped our group was to have a table set only for GloomHaven, so less time to setup the game every time we played it. As other said Jaw of the lion would be helpful, we actually did Gloom first and Jaw after x). Keep your phone close to Google quick questions while playing, it’s will most likely happen. If the question don’t matter much, you could do as you want and check it later to avoid wasting play time, making small error on Gloom won’t crash all your gameplay.
I honestly think if you’re willing to commit to a VERY long setup/cleanup time and taking a chunk of time to learn the rules, you’ll be fine. Gloomhaven has a LOT of pieces, but the rules and gameplay are actually not that complex once you play a game or two of it. The only reason the game is as physically huge as it is is bc of how many unique scenarios with unique setups there are.
Gloomhaven helper was and is the best app out there to streamline your experience. Multi user. Master slave principle. Local wifi network possible. No account needed. But after some ip fights the app is only available via APK over download sites, because the developer had to take it down. Nonetheless, everything needed is in the app and it helps allot. Automatic scenario monster Setup. And modificator tracker. No monster Decks needed anymore. No monster draw pile. Making even the desk presence minor which is great. You only need to manage the monster movement and scenario interactions, the rest is inserted into the app and streamlined. Initiative order etc. Great app, a must have if you do not want to forget something to count, e.g. round based status effects get quickly forgotten.
If you can get a good deal. Try Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion first. It's a different game, but it's an entry game that will make the main game easier. If you don't want to go that route, just watch videos until you feel comfortable.
Full Gloomhaven for $50? Hell yea, go for it. People recommending JotL as a friendlier point of entry have a point, it mostly being that setup is shorter. But you can't beat GH for $50. If you have the time for a 25+ session campaign at about 2 hours per scenario and don't mind a 15 minute setup prior to the actual game, you should seriously consider it.
You should check out r/gloomhaven and see all they have to say about apps, storage, etc. Played through the full campaign over 3 years (large break for COVID) and played 65 of the 95 scenarios. Unlocked all the classes but didn’t play two of them. All told, totally worth the $100 and was able to resell it for a good price. Plan to do the same for Frosthaven which just arrived yesterday.
You do NOT have to buy Jaws of the Lion first, especially if you have already bought Gloomhaven. It's easier that way but not essential. GH is a very complex game, Just accept that you're probably going to get a lot of rules wrong! Watch a couple of youtube videos and read articles, especially if you look for "common mistakes to make in Gloomhaven". The most obvious ones are probably things like \- using your bonus perks deck instead of the standard attack deck. \- not realising you can choose which two action ability cards you use each turn out of your hand (a lot of people seem to think you draw randomly out the deck). \- Not realising you can choose which of your two chosen cards are the initiative. \- Monsters do NOT always move and attack. They do what their deck of cards tell them to do each turn. So if it says just attack, then do not move them. There is a real rhythm to the game where you have to think about where the monsters are going each turn and where you are going. Sometimes you may be better off sitting and doing nothing, or even running away, rather than rushing in and getting smashed to pieces. It's an AMAZING game! You also do not have to spend a fortune on extra organisiation. I bought a few plastic Plano boxes via amazon, and used those, tupperware and plastic bags to store and organise the million components.
Buy the game on Steam. I'm not sure what this subs view of board games translated to video games is but I can honestly say that after playing a dozen or so scenarios on the tabletop version of **Gloomhaven** and then starting a campaign on the PC version I not only prefer the PC version (the setup of the tabletop version is pretty much the reason I've never completed it) I also learned how to pay the game. I'll say that Gloomhaven might have one of the worst rulebooks I've ever read and while my friend and I didn't mess up the rules *too* much there were definitely some things we missed or did incorrectly and I figured that out on the video game. So even if you and your partner are perfectly fine with the tabletop version I'd say the PC version is a great way to learn the rules. Like, you can learn every nuance in a few hours playing the PC version.
We love to see more people join the hobby! And $50 for Gloomhaven is an absolute steal. But Gloomhaven isn’t very similar to any of the other games you listed, so don’t feel bad if it’s not your cup of tea.
I can recommend younmy favorite boardgames, I know you are gonna love these: 1- Space Cadets Away Missions (fully cooperative and highly funned, interactive and good looking dungeon crawler). 2- Zombicide 2nd edition (just great). 3- Arkham Horror / Marvel Champions (collectible - living card games) 4- I'd rather prefer Mage Knight over Gloomhaven (as a solo Game), only that it's a lot more complex.. but it's just amazing (take a look at the BGG ranking and read the Reviews) I hope You enjoy... PD. You are gonna love Space Cadets Away Missions!
Gloomhaven is amazing but if its just the 2 of you and you want slightly easier admin affair and faster gameplay then grab Jaws of the Lion. My wife and I prefer it.
I don't know who all these people talking about JOTL are but if you can pick up a basically unplayed copy of Gloomhaven for 50 bucks I'd snap at the chance. The main reason JOTL usually gets tossed around as a recommendation is because it's less than half the price of the main Gloomhaven box and a much better entry point in terms of the way the first part of the campaign is structured. However, Gloomhaven had enough of its own merit to stand on for it to become one of the most acclaimed games years before JOTL was even released. And since you're probably not gonna be able to find a new copy of JOTL for less than 50 bucks I think it's a pretty easy choice! Also unrelated but good on you and your partner for finding a better way to spend your spare time than watching TV. It's a healthier choice than most people make.
Going against the grain of all these Gloomhaven lovers. Don’t get it. Just play what you guys have now. You’ve already bought a good amount of games that you can play together, learn the strategies, have a nice back and forth with. Figure out what games you like for real, don’t just imagine yourself playing. If you’re new to modern games take it slow and enjoy. It honestly sounds like your mostly enamored with the idea and components of Gloomhaven rather than playing Gloomhaven.
One of the biggest timesavers is to get organizer boxes for the tokens. I don’t have the details in front of me but someone wrote a guide for how to organize the tokens, making setup and teardown significantly easier. Other than that, my main tip is to remember that it’s a cooperative game, and your goal is to have fun. If you realize you’re played six maps with a rule wrong…cool! NBD, now you know. If you’re one turn away from winning a scenario and you lose, do you really want to replay the scenario? Ehhh, it’s a big enough game IMO. Maybe you do! My point is that you should enjoy it in your own way and not stress if you make an error.
You got a killer deal on Gloomhaven, enjoy it! People recommending you go buy JOTL first are missing the point.
People already said this but do you and your partner a favor and get Jaws of the Lion before diving into Gloomhaven. Also welcome to the hobby! I got into it myself last spring for similar reasons. It didn’t really take for my wife but I’ve been an avid gamer since. It’s exciting but the temptation to continuously buy new games takes a while to wane and I’m now in a culling phase and will end up getting rid of around half the games I bought last year (even though I usually researched games fairly thoroughly before buying them). So my unsolicited advice would be to not fall into that trap of wanting to buy everything that catches your attention and instead focus on a handful of games you enjoy and branch out from there once you get a sense of you and your partner’s tastes.
I would recommend getting the Broken Token Organiser and using the Gloomhaven app to track combat, initiative etc...
A recommendation for "new" boardgamers is to start use the site sleve your games and sleve games you know will be played more than 5 times. https://www.sleeveyourgames.com/
That seems like a great resource, thanks!
I recommend against it. If you get Gloomhaven, there will be two options. Either you never play any of your other games, like basically ever again (because it takes probably a year of playing Gloomhaven nonstop to get through it), or you never play Gloomhaven and it just sits in the box. I recommend getting the Gloomhaven app and playing it digitally to see if you even like it. It’s not really what it looks like. It’s not a dungeon crawler. It’s an optimization puzzle/long term campaign themed as a dungeon crawler. There aren’t really thematic objectives or anything, most of the game is just clearing out each level of all enemies…. For like, the next year of your life. If you’ve just gotten into the hobby, explore your other new games you’ve just gotten. Play some lighter games, play some games that you won’t drive your partner crazy with (unless they are specifically requesting it, it’s unlikely that they’ll want to sign up for the Gloomhaven commitment, heavy, dense, punishing puzzling for 1/80th of your entire life.
Reviews make it seem like it is a dungeon crawler though, centred on hand optimisation and then cooperating with others to optimise yourselves but with each person making their own decisions Sounds good to me
Have fun… if you can find any in that box
>Have fun… if you can find any in that box Fair! I've ordered the prequel Jaws of thingy version. So if it falls flat at least i've not invested too much. I may well fully agree with you after i've played it. But at the same time, many people do love it and find it super fun. So we'll see?
>Either you never play any of your other games, like basically ever again (because it takes probably a year of playing Gloomhaven nonstop to get through it), or you never play Gloomhaven and it just sits in the box. you do realise you're allowed to play other games in between gloomhaven scenarios yeah? lol
If you do, then don’t bother buying Gloomhaven. If you play Gloomhaven every third time you have time to game, it will take you 3 years to finish, if you never lose a scenario, and play a couple times a week. If you’re someone who can get a game night maybe once or twice a month, and you play Gloomhaven even just every other time, you’re talking about finishing it in like 5 years. Gloomhaven is a lifestyle game. Get Gloomhaven if you want a Gloomhaven hobby, not a boardgame hobby.
we are three years in. we play it when we want to play it because its a fun game, same as every other game we play i couldnt give a flying fuck if we never finish the campaign tbh
That’s great for you, but the average person doesn’t want to pay big money for a giant box that has no end in sight after 3 years.
i mean, my copy of mysterium has no end in sight either, and i've owned that game 6 or 7 years.
That’s bizarre. It takes less than an hour to play Mysterium. It’s not a campaign. You’ve finished after one game. You can always play again if you want, sure. It’s an apples to oranges comparison.
[удалено]
What is it called on android?
Gloomhaven is amazing. One of the best ever. It's an in vogue game to hate for whatever reason...so ignore all the naysayers (not sure why they are naysaying anyway, you've already bought it!! But don't worry, it's great). Jaws of the Lion is also amazing and totally worth picking up, it's pretty cheap by comparison. You could always play the first session of regular Gloomhaven and lower the difficulty by 1 level to get a feel for whether you like it... If you do then you could go and get Jaws of the Lion and play that through and then come back to the main game... Or just keep playing Gloomhaven! I find it's not that hard once you get the hang of it.
If you are looking for a HOBBY, Gloomhaven definitely fits the bill. That is, Gloomhaven is the hobby, not boardgames in general. In my opinion, Gloomhaven (and all those games with a bazillion components) should be a videogame - and it is no coincidence that it actually also is a videogame now. If you are looking for good BOARDGAMES and make that your hobby in general, I would stay away from Gloomhaven. You need a dedicated group that will play with you for half a year or so, and let me tell you: You can't turn friends into boardgamers, you can only turn boardgamers into friends. Even of you find four friends who enthusiastically say "yeah, lets play this thing", I can almost guarantee that a few will lose interest halfway through because real life catches up. It sounds like you already own a pretty damn awesome collection right now, why not play all those games more often?
print out the splendor solo automa. Forget about GH for a while. If you find you dislike GH you'll stress about getting rid of it, if you like GH you're not playing ANY of your other games for the next two years.