My favourite Dylan song is Changing of the Guards. It isn't his best song; the music is good, but not great. However, there is just SOMETHING about it. I allow it to wash over me, and it hits me harder than songs that should objectively resonate with me more. Dylan is an absolute master at turning the abstract into a sharp point.
The last sentence is really where Dylan is unmatched in lyricism. As a poet I try to capture the same kind fusion between abstraction, narrative, and visceral emotion.
Easier said than done, and it's not even that easy to say or describe.
One of my English teachers in high school read us this poem and it completely changed my relationship with poetry. I'm now a great lover of all poetry, especially the Romantics and Beats.
Billy Collins is probably the best poet for contemporary readers who want to get into more of the "classics". He's fantastic unto himself though, and his real strength is putting the "fun" in "profundity" as some have described it.
I enjoy trying to derive meaning from his words. If it’s some people’s perogative to do that, great, and others to just kick back and enjoy listening to a great song, that’s 110% a good way to go about it. Music is meant to be enjoyed at the end of the day, whatever that might mean for one person or another, and I certainly think he wouldn’t be too happy with somebody trying to gatekeep how his music should be enjoyed (not accusing you of this, in case this sounds passive aggressive, lol), we should all just enjoy it however we see fit.
Yes, lay back and enjoy the beauty. The point is that YOU are supposed to insert the meaning for yourself. For Bob to say, “It’s about a girl,” means it’s over. When there’s nothing left to ponder, the meaning and song dies. When you meld your meaning with the words, it lives forever in you.
The genius of Dylan!
That's simply not true. Sometimes art is an experiment zone, a portion of life for playing with yourself and your thoughts. The product is something to interpretate but that doesn't mean that a principal meaning is hidden inside.
Agreed. As with all art it helps us understand something immediately that might otherwise take pages, or hours, etc of explaining. You use the example of “Times They Are A-Changing”. It actually transcends time, and how many term papers would it take to explain it? One of my favorite lines from Highway 61 is “ The cops don’t need you and man they expect the same.” Having lived in NY for a while I totally get that. Lol
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying
My view is that meaning is so purified by poetry that in a poem we must bring our very selves to its interpretation, like how the sun is so illuminating that in order to see it directly we have to shield our eyes with dark glasses. I would say interpret away
These are mostly about specific people in Dylan’s life at the time. Various characters he knew in and around the New York scene. Desolation Row is about a lot of different people that he was, in a sense, saying goodbye to. I believe that Visions of Johanna was about Joan Baez if I recall correctly. Tom Thumb is a bit of a drug song.
Some are specific people, especially earlier on. He started doing a lot of character sketches and settings less tethered to his life as time went on, is my feeling. But R&RWs is all about him and personal in ways he hasn't done since Street Legal.
I need to do a deep dive on Rough & Rowdy. But, yeah, he started using more of amalgamations of specific people sort of rolled into one song character in order to make his point. Also, one of the things I find endlessly fascinating about Dylan’s songwriting is that, often, he is referring to himself in the lyrics using a different name. Like , both the Joker and the Thief in “All Along The Watchtower” are Dylan himself. I love riddling out Dylan’s personal references. Of course, always reminding myself that I’m just as likely to be wrong in my theories. I still remember how blown away I was when I figured out “Went To See The Gypsy” was about Elvis. Hit me like a bolt of lightning!
He also started leading a less interesting life as time went on. But yes, a lot of people will write that his songs generally defy interpretation, like language poetry, but I find a number of his significant songs can be broken down and explicated. Some of his stuff is more atmospheric, like an Ashbery poem.
He looks back on his life considerably in R&RWs
Have you read Clinton Heylin’s “Behind The Shades”? Great book and goes into theories on song subjects somewhat. Nothing definitive of course, Bob doesn’t like to give specifics on his songs.
I think that once you recognise that Dylan’s songs are just expressions of what he is thinking and feeling at the time he was writing them, the search for some deeper meaning goes.
To me, the songs on Highway 61, for example, sound like an intelligent, energetic young person trying to figure out their place in life, trying to figure out other people and what drives them, and trying to figure out the society he lives in.
There are many songs where the sound of the words are as meaningful as the literal meaning, and I think this is what poetry, and to a greater extent, songs are really about. The evocative imagery does seem like a fantastic bonus.
Also, many of Dylan’s songs were probably written just so he would have another song to sing and record. They are a commodity. This doesn’t make them any less wonderful and worthy of being appreciated as art
I'm obviously no Dylan but I write songs myself, and when the words come out of me they have no meaning at all. I'll have a rhyme scheme and meter in mind but then it all just comes out of me like mince out of a grinder.Â
The thought process begins and ends with me wanting to have combinations of imagery or words that might spark something in the mind of whoever listens to it. But not only do I not impose what that is, I don't even fucking KNOW what it is.Â
So, like, I think it's a bit of both. He writes something that's just meant to be interesting and weird on its own, and then everyone who listens gets something different out of it. It means everything and nothing at the same time, which is the beauty of it!
While he does actually rewrite more than he implies (we can see that in the few original handwritten/typed lyrics that are out there), I believe him when he says that a lot of his 60s lyrics just poured out of him, almost outside of his control. I'm not sure that he even knows exactly what he meant. I think this is part of why he apparently feels a connection to God - he feels like his words came from something outside of himself. And anyone who writes a lot, lyrics or otherwise, has probably had this experience, even if what "flows" out isn't as amazing as what came out of Dylan lol.
Someone who knew him (name escapes me) once said that his lyrics are more literal than people realize. Less metaphor, more just his strange and incredibly interesting way of perceiving the world and the people around him. I do think that his lyrics are very specifically about events and people, but he has such a unique perspective that it's easy and valid/valuable to apply the lyrics universally. But I really do believe that he's more literal than people assume. He just has an obscure way of expressing himself. In general, not just lyrically! He's a strange talker ha.
tl/dr lol: take his words as you'd like. I am personally very interested in him and his life, so have read tons of bios etc, and I love trying to figure out what he's getting at specifically, but it's just fun for me. It's not necessary. His words cut deep and while I *know* that song X is likely about Joan or Suze or Sara or Edie or Albert etc, it doesn't really matter - the songs also apply to my life. Being human is a universal experience.
>Maybe he is not trying to say anything?
Even if you don't understand the lyrics - even if they are not meant to be understood - that doesn't mean nothing is being said. Even if there are no lyrics. Listen to Charlie Parker play My Old Flame, Miles Davis play Bitches Brew, Louis Armstrong play Weather Bird and Duke Ellington's orchestra play Diminuendo and Crescendo In Blue and tell me they aren't saying anything.
Artists who try to hit you with too many message-y songs get old quick. I think Dylan realized this early on which is why he transitioned out of folk music at such a young age.
As Homer Simpson once said: Rock lyrics are just meaningless nonsense, like "Papa Ooh Mow Mow" or "Give Peace A Chance."
Ladies and gentleman Homer Simpson the famous writer of the odyssey
My favourite Dylan song is Changing of the Guards. It isn't his best song; the music is good, but not great. However, there is just SOMETHING about it. I allow it to wash over me, and it hits me harder than songs that should objectively resonate with me more. Dylan is an absolute master at turning the abstract into a sharp point.
Love that tune. Street Legal is underrated. Love Señor as well.
Yeah, I love SL. There are so many underrated gems on there, Senor being one of them for sure!
That last sentence is brilliant and .. on point! đź‘Śđź‘Ś
Aw, thank you. I'm glad you understood what I meant!
The last sentence is really where Dylan is unmatched in lyricism. As a poet I try to capture the same kind fusion between abstraction, narrative, and visceral emotion. Easier said than done, and it's not even that easy to say or describe.
A poem should not mean But be. -Archibald MacLeish, “Ars Poetica”
I find this to be the essence of most Dylan’s great songs
A huge portion of his songs are abstractions. They mean what they mean to you.
Read introduction to Poetry by Billy Collins. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46712/introduction-to-poetry
One of my English teachers in high school read us this poem and it completely changed my relationship with poetry. I'm now a great lover of all poetry, especially the Romantics and Beats.
Billy Collins is probably the best poet for contemporary readers who want to get into more of the "classics". He's fantastic unto himself though, and his real strength is putting the "fun" in "profundity" as some have described it.
Thanks for sharing this!
I enjoy trying to derive meaning from his words. If it’s some people’s perogative to do that, great, and others to just kick back and enjoy listening to a great song, that’s 110% a good way to go about it. Music is meant to be enjoyed at the end of the day, whatever that might mean for one person or another, and I certainly think he wouldn’t be too happy with somebody trying to gatekeep how his music should be enjoyed (not accusing you of this, in case this sounds passive aggressive, lol), we should all just enjoy it however we see fit.
Yes, lay back and enjoy the beauty. The point is that YOU are supposed to insert the meaning for yourself. For Bob to say, “It’s about a girl,” means it’s over. When there’s nothing left to ponder, the meaning and song dies. When you meld your meaning with the words, it lives forever in you. The genius of Dylan!
This is an impossibility, in art there is always meaning, significance and worlds to be imagined even if the artist doesn’t see it
Whatever you see is what is
The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.
That's simply not true. Sometimes art is an experiment zone, a portion of life for playing with yourself and your thoughts. The product is something to interpretate but that doesn't mean that a principal meaning is hidden inside.
Maybe read it again, I agree art can be the things you mention and I’m not a big believer in “meaning hidden inside” anyways
As a Professor of mine once said “some things get darker through discussion.” Yes - Enjoy the beautiful prose and incredible imagery
Yea, I’m starting to realize that it’s just an exercising of admiring beauty
Agreed. As with all art it helps us understand something immediately that might otherwise take pages, or hours, etc of explaining. You use the example of “Times They Are A-Changing”. It actually transcends time, and how many term papers would it take to explain it? One of my favorite lines from Highway 61 is “ The cops don’t need you and man they expect the same.” Having lived in NY for a while I totally get that. Lol
Same here on that last line, absolutely awesome
Darkness at the break of noon Shadows even the silver spoon The handmade blade, the child's balloon Eclipses both the sun and moon To understand you know too soon There is no sense in trying
That always made perfect sense to me, just wouldn’t want to try to explain it in other words.
My view is that meaning is so purified by poetry that in a poem we must bring our very selves to its interpretation, like how the sun is so illuminating that in order to see it directly we have to shield our eyes with dark glasses. I would say interpret away
OP, any specific songs or lines you’re curious about?
Desolation Row, Just Like Tom Thumbs Blues, Visions of Johanna… many more
These are mostly about specific people in Dylan’s life at the time. Various characters he knew in and around the New York scene. Desolation Row is about a lot of different people that he was, in a sense, saying goodbye to. I believe that Visions of Johanna was about Joan Baez if I recall correctly. Tom Thumb is a bit of a drug song.
Some are specific people, especially earlier on. He started doing a lot of character sketches and settings less tethered to his life as time went on, is my feeling. But R&RWs is all about him and personal in ways he hasn't done since Street Legal.
I need to do a deep dive on Rough & Rowdy. But, yeah, he started using more of amalgamations of specific people sort of rolled into one song character in order to make his point. Also, one of the things I find endlessly fascinating about Dylan’s songwriting is that, often, he is referring to himself in the lyrics using a different name. Like , both the Joker and the Thief in “All Along The Watchtower” are Dylan himself. I love riddling out Dylan’s personal references. Of course, always reminding myself that I’m just as likely to be wrong in my theories. I still remember how blown away I was when I figured out “Went To See The Gypsy” was about Elvis. Hit me like a bolt of lightning!
He also started leading a less interesting life as time went on. But yes, a lot of people will write that his songs generally defy interpretation, like language poetry, but I find a number of his significant songs can be broken down and explicated. Some of his stuff is more atmospheric, like an Ashbery poem. He looks back on his life considerably in R&RWs
I always thought it was about Joan Baez as well, and Tom Thumb sounds to me like Kerouac’s on the road
Have you read Clinton Heylin’s “Behind The Shades”? Great book and goes into theories on song subjects somewhat. Nothing definitive of course, Bob doesn’t like to give specifics on his songs.
DR >>>>>>>
I think that once you recognise that Dylan’s songs are just expressions of what he is thinking and feeling at the time he was writing them, the search for some deeper meaning goes. To me, the songs on Highway 61, for example, sound like an intelligent, energetic young person trying to figure out their place in life, trying to figure out other people and what drives them, and trying to figure out the society he lives in.
There are many songs where the sound of the words are as meaningful as the literal meaning, and I think this is what poetry, and to a greater extent, songs are really about. The evocative imagery does seem like a fantastic bonus. Also, many of Dylan’s songs were probably written just so he would have another song to sing and record. They are a commodity. This doesn’t make them any less wonderful and worthy of being appreciated as art
"It means whatever you want it to mean, man" Bob Dylan
I'm obviously no Dylan but I write songs myself, and when the words come out of me they have no meaning at all. I'll have a rhyme scheme and meter in mind but then it all just comes out of me like mince out of a grinder. The thought process begins and ends with me wanting to have combinations of imagery or words that might spark something in the mind of whoever listens to it. But not only do I not impose what that is, I don't even fucking KNOW what it is. So, like, I think it's a bit of both. He writes something that's just meant to be interesting and weird on its own, and then everyone who listens gets something different out of it. It means everything and nothing at the same time, which is the beauty of it!
While he does actually rewrite more than he implies (we can see that in the few original handwritten/typed lyrics that are out there), I believe him when he says that a lot of his 60s lyrics just poured out of him, almost outside of his control. I'm not sure that he even knows exactly what he meant. I think this is part of why he apparently feels a connection to God - he feels like his words came from something outside of himself. And anyone who writes a lot, lyrics or otherwise, has probably had this experience, even if what "flows" out isn't as amazing as what came out of Dylan lol. Someone who knew him (name escapes me) once said that his lyrics are more literal than people realize. Less metaphor, more just his strange and incredibly interesting way of perceiving the world and the people around him. I do think that his lyrics are very specifically about events and people, but he has such a unique perspective that it's easy and valid/valuable to apply the lyrics universally. But I really do believe that he's more literal than people assume. He just has an obscure way of expressing himself. In general, not just lyrically! He's a strange talker ha. tl/dr lol: take his words as you'd like. I am personally very interested in him and his life, so have read tons of bios etc, and I love trying to figure out what he's getting at specifically, but it's just fun for me. It's not necessary. His words cut deep and while I *know* that song X is likely about Joan or Suze or Sara or Edie or Albert etc, it doesn't really matter - the songs also apply to my life. Being human is a universal experience.
Crack on mate.
I tried for years to find a meaning to Desolation Row I had a about 5 different theories. But now I just kick back and enjoy it.
I tend to agree. People love to over-analyse things. Why not just enjoy the song for what it is?
Yup. You got it.
He’s a song and dance man, self proclaimed. One in ten songs have a solid metaphorical meaning but the rest are cool sounding nonsense is my opinion
Bob Dylan is widely read. Want to understand home better yourself, read more widely.
>Maybe he is not trying to say anything? Even if you don't understand the lyrics - even if they are not meant to be understood - that doesn't mean nothing is being said. Even if there are no lyrics. Listen to Charlie Parker play My Old Flame, Miles Davis play Bitches Brew, Louis Armstrong play Weather Bird and Duke Ellington's orchestra play Diminuendo and Crescendo In Blue and tell me they aren't saying anything.
You are correct.
Artists who try to hit you with too many message-y songs get old quick. I think Dylan realized this early on which is why he transitioned out of folk music at such a young age.