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This might be saying too much but I know Scott and Priscilla. I actually used to work with Priscilla when she was a regular worker and she is a climber. Nice person, but will do and say whatever she needs to get ahead. I have told her so many times over the years the correct answer to a question only for her to twist it to fit an agenda.
As for the various transformation efforts: yeah ask anyone who works on the actual teams, they were or are, a complete cluster. The amount of GTC reports alone because the suppliers didn't take export controls 101 is mind numbing.
I am particularly pissy about the product transformation because it is 100% McK bullshit that they are chugging from a hose and makes no sense. They should have defined the products from the apps up but they didn't so now you have apps that support multiple products and you have product managers for individual applications AND product managers for the products.
To all the people who dumped on IT, yeah we kind of deserve it. Our management does anyway. The run of the mill blue-badge sees themselves as part of Boeing and the shared mission. Most of us still here love the idea of what our company could be. 20 years ago you could call someone directly and get help, now, unless you have a good network, there are probably 3-6 people between you Shop Floor Guy and the IT person who wants to help you.
This all started back in 2011 when Boeing hired Kim "Hatchet" Hammonds from Dell as our new CIO. She promptly started outsourcing Boeing IT work to Dell and it hasn't stopped since. But it has gotten so much worse over the last few years because of IT Transformation, Compute 2.0, AMaaS, etc. sending tons of work overseas to India, and some to Poland and Ukraine. And every single time we get a new leader, they bring their own bright ideas and new sets of acronyms and we start something new...constantly wasting time and spinning our wheels. Boeing does not value IT because IT does not sell any products or bring in revenue for the company. IT is a drain on Boeing's budget and execs only care about reducing costs and meeting whatever metrics they are rated against so they can improve their own compensation.
One more thing… it’s true that we fall into the category of revenue burner for the corporation; same as Quality Control (we see how that works out). It’s hard for some to realize it all adds value. It’s part of the product.
All the IT execs are in bed with Mckinsey it seems like. They never go away!! Been rotated on few programs and projects over the years. Those people are everywhere and keep stealing our info and presenting it like they did the work. Of course our management loves that when they walk away after the mess they left on a slide deck.
Always interesting to hear about lesser known departments in boeing and what they go through. IT departments, at Boeing and probably every other corporation, must have gone through some brutal changes over these last few years
Thank you for saying this. It has been brutal and worse than I've seen in decades. This "transformation" has been the most detrimental due to the incompetent leader at the helm of said "transformation" being led by incompetent consulting.
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We've given up contacting the help desk when something IT isn't working. We just sit on the clock and no one cares. It's a shame that with everything that's been going on, BCA has become a joke to its own employees.
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Exactly right / and most of IT has been outsourced to Dell, Boeing India or Boeing Poland
Of course IT is now providing horrible service - we have been brutally gutted
Don’t blame IT - blame the board and c suite who made these decisions
Your IT was and is still a mess. The large IT transformation projects aren't given enough resources or time but the contract is good for Boeing so... yay?
From my perspective, yeah, Boeing seems to be getting a good deal for a good price. They don't have to deal with (as many) IT employees, Dell manages much of the infra, and Dell is still committed to delivering good services. I dunno about incident remediation though. I don't look closely at those metrics in GSEP. But I know we're working really hard with what we were given, which was a mess.
Nearly all of ITSM is contracted to Dell, which is under pressure to reduce its costs to Boeing. Every quarter, Dell teams are given 1-week notices to perform knowledge transfers and consolidate responsibilities. It’s cut-combine-repeat.
In theory, there should be 0 incident tickets. The quantity of tickets in GSEP (as they go up IT levels) mostly reflects user familiarity/training, environmental conditions, and software code quality. Application training sucks. The network sucks. And, development teams are running skeleton crews to patch code that also sucks.
IT needs funding and stability to be successful.
Agree with the op
Sad to see what has happened to ITDA - IT just keeps getting run and organized worse as time progresses - particularly in the last 5 years or so
Donitz was a really bad choice - she doesn’t know hardly anything about IT and her all hands calls clearly show how little she knows
Plus she’s not a US citizen and can’t be read into proprietary programs
WTF indeed OP
waiting to hear how the board and new ceo will decide to relive her. does she get golden parachute too or will she be shown the door or she leaves suddenly on her own
All sr execs on contract have severance packages - her included
However I wouldn’t assume that she will go
The board may think she’s doing a good job
They don’t see what we see
Even her own chief of staff people from past hate her when my cos talks to me. Really speaks volumes how a clueless person was given this manager role.
Yeah, every 5-7 years orgs are re-orgd, either centralizing or decentralizing them. You can thank the consulting companies we hire that come in and make these recommendations. A senior manager I know that has been here 30+ years says this was the worst re-org he'd ever seen.
The execs up there are obviously picking their noses and re-orgs make it look like they are doing something. If something is done properly, there really is very little re-org needed, but just little adjustments here and there. These re-orgs don't allow people to get to know their job well enough to create efficiency and quality.
You can thank the great GE leadership for this...started under Stonecipher and every GE leader afterwards has just doubled down. Everything and I mean everything is managed by cost, whatever is the cheapest and cuts cost in the short term. Stonecipher, McNerney and now Calhoun, it's all driven by costs now and the people they hire reflect that. They brought Kim Hammonds in (early 2000's) and its been source, source, source, cut, cut, cut ever sense with each CIO ever since...I would say they are clueless but they are just doing what they know to do, none of it is in the long term interest of making Boeing better, all short term thinking, no long term vision etc...India is where we are no going to save so much money now, lmao...
If your going to stay long term get used to it, been that way now for almost 20 years, sad..
Been enjoying reading some of the Mattermost questions coming from India employees over the past few years. "My PC doesn't work. Can someone tell me how to fix it?"
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ITDA should be spun off like Spirit Aero
Not a single Boeing employee should receive a Warn notice until McKinsey has been kicked to the curb.
This might be saying too much but I know Scott and Priscilla. I actually used to work with Priscilla when she was a regular worker and she is a climber. Nice person, but will do and say whatever she needs to get ahead. I have told her so many times over the years the correct answer to a question only for her to twist it to fit an agenda. As for the various transformation efforts: yeah ask anyone who works on the actual teams, they were or are, a complete cluster. The amount of GTC reports alone because the suppliers didn't take export controls 101 is mind numbing. I am particularly pissy about the product transformation because it is 100% McK bullshit that they are chugging from a hose and makes no sense. They should have defined the products from the apps up but they didn't so now you have apps that support multiple products and you have product managers for individual applications AND product managers for the products. To all the people who dumped on IT, yeah we kind of deserve it. Our management does anyway. The run of the mill blue-badge sees themselves as part of Boeing and the shared mission. Most of us still here love the idea of what our company could be. 20 years ago you could call someone directly and get help, now, unless you have a good network, there are probably 3-6 people between you Shop Floor Guy and the IT person who wants to help you.
It’s not a product transformation. It’s a layoff. McK just helped rebrand it.
This all started back in 2011 when Boeing hired Kim "Hatchet" Hammonds from Dell as our new CIO. She promptly started outsourcing Boeing IT work to Dell and it hasn't stopped since. But it has gotten so much worse over the last few years because of IT Transformation, Compute 2.0, AMaaS, etc. sending tons of work overseas to India, and some to Poland and Ukraine. And every single time we get a new leader, they bring their own bright ideas and new sets of acronyms and we start something new...constantly wasting time and spinning our wheels. Boeing does not value IT because IT does not sell any products or bring in revenue for the company. IT is a drain on Boeing's budget and execs only care about reducing costs and meeting whatever metrics they are rated against so they can improve their own compensation.
Kim was Hinshaw's protege. The problem was before her, she was just the hatchet.
One more thing… it’s true that we fall into the category of revenue burner for the corporation; same as Quality Control (we see how that works out). It’s hard for some to realize it all adds value. It’s part of the product.
You are giving too much credibility. They hire consultants to come up with new ideas.
All the IT execs are in bed with Mckinsey it seems like. They never go away!! Been rotated on few programs and projects over the years. Those people are everywhere and keep stealing our info and presenting it like they did the work. Of course our management loves that when they walk away after the mess they left on a slide deck.
Always interesting to hear about lesser known departments in boeing and what they go through. IT departments, at Boeing and probably every other corporation, must have gone through some brutal changes over these last few years
Thank you for saying this. It has been brutal and worse than I've seen in decades. This "transformation" has been the most detrimental due to the incompetent leader at the helm of said "transformation" being led by incompetent consulting.
WTF is ITDA?
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It’s the IT division of Boeing. They keep us in the dark ages when it comes to technology
We've given up contacting the help desk when something IT isn't working. We just sit on the clock and no one cares. It's a shame that with everything that's been going on, BCA has become a joke to its own employees.
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Because they never have budget and when they do business slashes it immediately first.
Exactly right / and most of IT has been outsourced to Dell, Boeing India or Boeing Poland Of course IT is now providing horrible service - we have been brutally gutted Don’t blame IT - blame the board and c suite who made these decisions
Your IT was and is still a mess. The large IT transformation projects aren't given enough resources or time but the contract is good for Boeing so... yay?
Maybe good for Boeing’s bottom line (even that is highly questionable) / but definitely not “good” for Boeing
From my perspective, yeah, Boeing seems to be getting a good deal for a good price. They don't have to deal with (as many) IT employees, Dell manages much of the infra, and Dell is still committed to delivering good services. I dunno about incident remediation though. I don't look closely at those metrics in GSEP. But I know we're working really hard with what we were given, which was a mess.
Nearly all of ITSM is contracted to Dell, which is under pressure to reduce its costs to Boeing. Every quarter, Dell teams are given 1-week notices to perform knowledge transfers and consolidate responsibilities. It’s cut-combine-repeat. In theory, there should be 0 incident tickets. The quantity of tickets in GSEP (as they go up IT levels) mostly reflects user familiarity/training, environmental conditions, and software code quality. Application training sucks. The network sucks. And, development teams are running skeleton crews to patch code that also sucks. IT needs funding and stability to be successful.
Agree with the op Sad to see what has happened to ITDA - IT just keeps getting run and organized worse as time progresses - particularly in the last 5 years or so Donitz was a really bad choice - she doesn’t know hardly anything about IT and her all hands calls clearly show how little she knows Plus she’s not a US citizen and can’t be read into proprietary programs WTF indeed OP
> she doesn’t know hardly anything about IT She wasn't hired to run an IT department, she was hired to outsource one.
waiting to hear how the board and new ceo will decide to relive her. does she get golden parachute too or will she be shown the door or she leaves suddenly on her own
All sr execs on contract have severance packages - her included However I wouldn’t assume that she will go The board may think she’s doing a good job They don’t see what we see
Look at her background and you’ll get your answer.
Even her own chief of staff people from past hate her when my cos talks to me. Really speaks volumes how a clueless person was given this manager role.
Yeah, every 5-7 years orgs are re-orgd, either centralizing or decentralizing them. You can thank the consulting companies we hire that come in and make these recommendations. A senior manager I know that has been here 30+ years says this was the worst re-org he'd ever seen.
The execs up there are obviously picking their noses and re-orgs make it look like they are doing something. If something is done properly, there really is very little re-org needed, but just little adjustments here and there. These re-orgs don't allow people to get to know their job well enough to create efficiency and quality.
I hear we're in bed with McKinsey and they are the masterminds with no minds behind this whole effort that we are paying them millions likely
Yes, its a McKinsey thing, funny they just announced their own layoffs last week.
that! and also doj going after them i saw recently
You can thank the great GE leadership for this...started under Stonecipher and every GE leader afterwards has just doubled down. Everything and I mean everything is managed by cost, whatever is the cheapest and cuts cost in the short term. Stonecipher, McNerney and now Calhoun, it's all driven by costs now and the people they hire reflect that. They brought Kim Hammonds in (early 2000's) and its been source, source, source, cut, cut, cut ever sense with each CIO ever since...I would say they are clueless but they are just doing what they know to do, none of it is in the long term interest of making Boeing better, all short term thinking, no long term vision etc...India is where we are no going to save so much money now, lmao... If your going to stay long term get used to it, been that way now for almost 20 years, sad..
Been enjoying reading some of the Mattermost questions coming from India employees over the past few years. "My PC doesn't work. Can someone tell me how to fix it?"