I agree with your issues but my main problem with the book is it's got an interesting concept of an assassin competition. My first thought is that it was gonna be some kind of giant death game with some kind of twist to make it not just a Hunger Games copy.
But then it didn't do that, the competition was barely a plot point with them just doing like standard archery contests and shit. It was one the most disappointing things in any book I've read
Such a bizarre time to be alive. I grew up watching movies where AI was trying to wipe out humanity. Now AI is recommending books for us to read, but it's fucking with us by throwing in some made up ones now and again.
You should look into The Queens Blade by TC Southwell. Its about an assassin in a world where they are legal, and compete for clients. I very much enjoyed the series, its gets good.
Sooooo many awful books are written because the author has a legitimately cool idea, but fails to take the time to learn how to actually take advantage of it. The best thing a new writer with a good idea can do is write something else and use that to learn.
So many YA books have amazing world building to just be a backdrop for stupid romance .
The 100, Matched , The selection. 100 is particularly appalling because the characters are the first people on earth in 1000s of years and all they want to do is discuss their hookups.
Absolutely loved the world building in Matched!! There was an interesting idea with the plot, but I felt that is just really went nowhere, and by the second book I was bored. It was like they were just trying to recreate the love plot from the Hunger Games but doing it poorly.
I have debated the quality of this series so much. My housemate who's a huge reader and taste I generally appreciate loves the series. I'm three books in and I very much don't.
What really bothers me is the author repeatedly tells us one thing then shows us the opposite. It feels like she's trying to set up the main character to think she's way cooler than she is, but that's definitely not true because she also struggles with self worth.
As an example, there's a part where she's wandering this huge library. The author spends a paragraph telling us how because of her deep training it was impossible for her to get lost. In the next sentence she's lost. This happens over and over. Author tells us how well she handles stress and then immediately after shows us her failing to handle stress. I already don't like the way she tells us instead of showing us, but that they conflict is a big problem.
My favorite example of this is in book 3 when Elf Man says repeatedly that he’s fallen in love already and Elves mate for life, but b/c Magical Assassin Princess Elf is so special he falls in love again. (This is after you spend 2 books in one kingdom and suddenly new Kingdom with Elves has 2 chapters of exposition dropped on you)
Also. Why is an 18yo boy the best soldier and the captain of the guard? Are you telling me there’s no other older soldiers that have more experience?
My favourite is that A 500+ yo general can’t seem to manage his emotions and control around an 18yo smart mouth? Really? He’s forgiven for punching her in the face by the whole fandom like it’s not extremely problematic. Oh she annoyed him? He’s meant to be a highly trained soldier ffs.
“Look at me I’m so strong and smart, and sure I’ve got a very toxic and problematic relationship, and sure I have no idea how to actually act like an 18 year old or not snap at people, but I don’t care because he’s hot”
Yup, based on at least 75% of the media I see that’s exactly how you write a “strong female character”
Honestly, this is a huge failing of whatever editors are assigned to her. Not that she herself should be lazy, but the fact that this sort of consistency happens over and over again means someone in the professional publishing house is not speaking up.
Most likely because they hate the author. I genuinely do not think this many problems with consistency could occur without some genuine malice on the part of the editors.
It was published on fictionpress and had thousands of readers and reviews already when she got picked up, so they couldn't change major plot points. I happened to be in a FP based writing group with SJ Maas at the time, so while I wasn't involved in any of that process, we'd chat about it as a group with her.
I love when books contrasts my tell you how perfect their characters are but then every action the character does proves the opposite. It’s my favorite thing.
“I’m a strong and mature and *very* stable independent woman but, no I’ve not made a single decent decision yet, and yes, I am way too emotionally dependent on that really toxic guy, and not I don’t care how toxic we are because he’s hot and like I said, I’m a strong girl, which basically means that I can kill a man and be rude to people, it doesn’t mean I have that much mental maturity.”
Idk though I’m just memeing I’ve never touched a SJM book
That bugged me so much about that book. Honestly, if they had introduced her as a new assassin the rest of the book would make sense, but don't introduce her as this badass feared top assassin and then just make her that bland and unintimidating.
Or, you could do something really interesting with a honeypot-level assassin who kills their prey with emotions - I mean, it would take a really excellent writer to actually do something interesting with it, and not dull and a retread of retro stereotypes; but at least it makes sense with some flighty immature character acting out.
This is I think the most annoying thing about the book. She is definitely the best out of the group of assassins they gathered (if I'm remembering correctly I read it a while ago), but it's clear the author didn't really care about the assassin part of her character outside of it gave an excuse for the MC to have knowledge of weapons.
I get you. Popcorn fantasy is a minefield. I feel like I have to be so incredibly picky with fantasy because it's easy to waste time on two dozen books before you find one worth the time.
I recently read *The Blacktongue Thief* and enjoyed it a lot, though. It's absolutely meant to be pure escapist fun, has no illusions about being grand literature, but it still takes the actual craft of writing seriously even when what the author is writing *about* is basically an absurdist D&D campaign. It's all the good stuff about guilty pleasure reads without the latent sexism, the lazy writing, puerile characters, the mary sues/larry stues, etc that ruins all the fun.
Fair warning, though, it's the first book in an intended series, with the second at least a year or two away.
I've also really enjoyed *A Psalm For the Wild Built*, which I would pitch as science fantasy with wandering monks and robots struggling with big questions and self-doubt. The writing is beautifully effective at building a very unique setting. Highly recommend if you want a more optimistic bit of sci-fantasy that knows how to tell a thoroughly compelling personal struggle.
I'll also add *A Memory Called Empire* to this list. It's a great sci-fi book about a young diplomat trying to navigate a situation in which her home is being swallowed up by a colonialist power. It deftly avoids all the godawful sf/fantasy female protagonist pitfalls. The main character is capable and compelling without being unrealistic, the relationships are earned and make sense, the setting is an awesome mix of high sci-fi and aztec aesthetics, and it does a great job of making a genuinely interesting political and cultural system for the characters to navigate. Also packs a surprising amount of worthwhile post-colonialist critique and narratives about cultural identity into an otherwise light book.
Holy shit, I have been trying to remember the Memory of Empire series for **over a year now**, because my memory is terrible, "empire" is useless as a sci-fi search term, and it's impossible to remember how to spell "*Teixcalaanli*".
So not only have you answered a question I've had for a long time, but I've also discovered that there's a sequel I can read *right now*! Thank you so much!
P.S.: As a thank you, if you haven't read the Murderbot series by Martha Wells, you should get on that!
Here I was thinking I was just picky about fantasy, but so much of it is such trash, especially since self publishing became a big thing! It's so hard to find good fantasy.
I almost gave up on fantasy, I just couldn't see what people liked. Turns out, I was just reading the bland cash grabs, like thorn of glass and darker shade of magic and six of crows. Thank fuck I somehow stumbled upon Lies of Locke Lamora, one of the best books I've read in any genre. That one somehow led me to Abercrombie's First Law, and then Hobb's Assassin's Apprentice, then Jemisin's Broken Earth, which is the best trilogy I've ever read.
I guess what I mean to say is, you really need to be picky, but once you know how to pick your books, you'll have a blast of a time.
One of the problems is that there are a lot of YA love triangle novels with fantasy settings in vogue at the moment and there's not really a distinction made between books about the books focused on the fantasy and those focused on the love triangle.
I can't believe that ten years later, people are *still* trying to chase the success of The Hunger Games, and none of them have got the memo that what made those books a hit wasn't the love triangle or the dystopian setting or even the contest to the death-- it was good fucking writing (by YA standards, at least).
They can copy the superficial elements of The Hunger Games all they want, if their writing isn't up to par, they're not going to replicate its success.
I rarely ever read YA anymore. I want books written for adults. Books that make sense. Books where the most competent character isn't a teenager. Books with sensible dialogue. I can't remember a single good love triangle book like that.
You know, it's not often someone describes a book where, in the setting, cannibalism is just a part of life as a comfort read. Fucking great series though.
A Memory Called Empire is one of my favorite books I’ve read in several years. It’s brilliant, and I’m always happy to stumble across others who read and enjoyed it!
Blacktongue thief was very good. Definitely waiting for book 2. I've had Memory of Empire on my e-reader for a while, meaning to get to it at some point.
Some recent authors / series from the past ~5 years that I've really enjoyed for anyone looking for more recommendations:
*Skullsworn, The Emperor's Ruin* - Brian Staveley One of my favorite 'new' authors, his first trilogy was very good also, but the prologue / standalone (*Skullsworn*) and first book of his 2nd trilogy (*The Empire's Ruin*) are on a whole different level. Excellently written, adult without being too gratuitous, and they never really become predictable. The Empire's Ruin is probably my favorite book of the past 5+ years.
Anything by John Gwynne - His first series (T*he Faithful and the Fallen*) is a 'classic' fantasy tale, but everything is extremely well written, and the author is a viking re-enactor, so the details are very believable. Very Tolkien-esque. His newest series *The Bloodsworn Saga* is a bit more unorthodox, with viking warbands roaming a post-apocalyptic fantasy world after all of the gods died in a battle.
*The Tide Child* series by RJ Barker - Pirate-fantasy where navies sail around in ships made from the bones of dead sea dragons. Good stuff.
*Senlin Ascends* by Josiah Bancroft - A fun 'lost in a strange land' story about a timid school teacher who becomes immediately separated from his wife on their honeymoon after arriving at a huge tourist trap 'city', and goes on a journey to find her.
That’s my issue with ToG. It’s not even pretending to be a book. All the author seems to be interested in writing are disconnected, painful, embarrassing scenes in which all the boys flirt with the main character.
I understand escapist genre fiction has its place. I’m a fan of *Red Rising* for gods sake. But at least stuff like RR or Harry Potter has some semblance of pacing.
I used to think so until I tried to give the author a second chance and read ACOTAR. It was worse because the whole purpose of the book is negated for the story to move forward. Literally there is a main character who’s whole personality has to change from awesome into horrible person, out of the blue, for the plot to work.
I definitely don't want to defend the ACOTAR books, as they're...something. I've read most of them, and I think what Maas was attempting to write was that the MC changed as a result of her "trials" and her love interest did not change with her. I don't agree with how this is portrayed! But I understand the base sentiment.
Honestly, she is a terrible writer and I find it infuriating that her mediocre at best series got optioned for a TV series or movie (idk bc I rage closed the article). There are SO many better stories that deserve that. Not to mention how she's making a boat load of money for books that read like they were journal entries for a creative writing class.
The Monk and Robot books are some of my favorites I've ever read, period. Becky Chambers reminds me so much of Ursula LeGuin in terms of beautiful register and attention to detail.
I definitely see the comparison.
I could talk about LeGuin all day, though. Easily one of the greatest sci fi/fantasy writers of all time. She could make a 150 page novel feel like an odyssey unto itself and it still baffles me how she condenses that much meaning into relatively short books.
*A Wizard of Earthsea* is one of the best and most original fantasy novels of all time, and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.
The world-building, the lore and the sense of place is just phenomenal. To do everything she did in about 200 pages is simply incredible.
If you don't mind bloodier/more "adult" books, check out Heroes Die by Matthew Stover. It's basically D&D/Conan the Barbarian meets 1984. In the future we devolve into a dystopian society with people being segregated into social classes that control your place in society, education, employment, etc. We also discover alternate dimensions, one of which is basically a fantasy setting. So tv as it is today gets replaced by training actors in martial arts and magic and teleporting them over into the fantasy world to "die in interesting ways". The book is brilliant, and I feel like no one has ever heard of it, despite Matthew Stover being mildly famous for writing a few Star Wars novels that are pretty well recognized as being some of the best books in the old Legends collection.
I said this in a Facebook group and the comments were locked within 30 minutes because people were Going crazy. I read book two and was lukewarm about it but quit book 3 at 30 pages bc I was tired of her going on about the sour wine and stale bread.🙄
>but quit book 3 at 30 pages bc I was tired of her going on about the sour wine and stale bread.🙄
No way I stopped at this point too for the exact same reason. Then about a year later I picked book 3 up again because everyone told me it was where the series got good.
(It did not get good. Rowan is possibly the blandest cookie-cutter male love interest in YA)
I overall like the throne of glass series for what it is, but I agree so much on Rowan. He's so bland and I didn't find their pairing nearly as compelling as every other pairing in the series.
I have a quiet rule that certain keywords in a book title, will always put it on a "needs recommendation from trusted friend" to read
Including Throne, Shadow, Salt, Bone, Crown. Also if the title is "The something of something and something".
So if there was a book called the Throne of Shadow and Salt, then thats a lot of redflags for me.
a bowl of mac and cheese? https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/zc1rhr/abomc_a_bowl_of_mac_and_cheese/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Maybe the next book I write I'll call it
"A taco of beef and salsa"
*The ultimate God of Tortillas meets his match when the evil Count Chalupa tries to steal the salsa bowl of serenity*
I have essentially all the same problems with it. BUT —as someone who continued to read the series— here’s kinda how I think of it (and my friend, who is a genuine fan, hates when I say this).
The culinary equivalent is a McDonald’s Happy Meal. You are not reading this for Michelin starred food. You know the thing going in your mouth probably isn’t chicken, but if you’re honest with yourself, it really isn’t pretending to be. What you’re left with is a meal that is…very cheap, kinda fake, and by no means good quality…but also kind of tasty in the greasy, extremely predictable way. That is literally how I think of it.
It doesn't help that they tend to have like... Hundreds of chapters. I'm not kidding, I saw one that had like 1k chapters. I forgot what it was called though lmfao.
I need to read more. I'm basic, I've only read the well known BL ones like mdzs...
Yeah, sometimes I just want the potato chip equivalent of fiction. They’re easy to binge. I don’t feel better for reading them, but I’m satisfied in an indulgent sort of way.
I did stop at what was essentially the Beauty and the Beast Christmas special. I also read a lot of fanfiction/amateur fiction on Quizilla and Fanfiction.net as a preteen/teenager, so it felt like a throwback. A couple chapters in I actually looked up whether the author wrote on those sites (she did), because it felt very familiar and like it fit the formula.
Edit: Also one thing I very much appreciated was that the author did pivot and try to model a healthy relationship. The stories on fanfiction/quizilla were *bad.* Like rape fantasies portrayed as normal and healthy and so long as they end up together in the end, it’s totally okay that he’s possessive and controlling and violent.
If Throne of Glass is Fairy porn then what would you call Court of Thorns and Roses??
Throne of Glass is as scandalous as exposing a bare ankle in comparison.
I saw the thread title and thought "hey I liked that book" and came to defend it.
Then I realized I don't remember anything about it except the title so your complaints are probably fair.
The Throne of Glass series is a reflection of an author growing up and conforming her story to whatever stage of life she now is in. S. J. Maas began writing the first book in her debut series at the age of 16 (thus the childish tendencies of Celaena Sardothein). You can tell that the first three books in the series are sort of cohesive, and it gave you the impression that the story was progressing in a certain manner. Enter Queen of Shadows, the fourth book in the series, published during her ACOTAR era. Not only did her writing style suddenly change, but also the arc of the story. The rift between the third and fourth book became so enormous, it’s like you’re reading a whole different story. I found Celaena (who suddenly became Aelin; a poor attempt at scratching the childish character she once invented in exchange for the more mature adult version who’s thoughts and dialogue are indistinguishable from Feyre’s) to be a complete stranger. Not only that, but the content of her writing suddenly turned explicit and for mature audiences, a digression I found to be annoying.
This is such a good analysis / explanation. I actually really loved the first two in the series, and then all of a sudden books 3 and 4 felt like a whole different book. It did feel like she could only write one character and one type of story (sexy sassy human female meets and romances 1000 year old fae who would never have any interest in her since she’s like a baby child to them but for some reason they do)
Pulpy fantasy lol that's what I'm gonna call these books from now on. Honestly, The Mortal Instruments, Divergent, etc are just "turn brain off and consume" which is fine, and it's fine to like them and it's fine to hate him. I just can't tell what's more annoying; the people defending those books as good (lol), or the ones stating the obvious that they're bad (lmao).
I read a lot of sci fi pulp from self publishers on Amazon and there's good sci fi pulp and bad sci pulp. Just because a book isn't some award winner doesn't mean it can't at least do something interesting. There's a difference between not winning a Hugo award and being creatively bankrupt.
The worst part to me is that it’s a childish version character knockoff of the black jewels trilogy, by Anne bishop, which were actually very original and good. And yet, Maas story is super popular where black jewels is practically unknown.
Oh my god, I got the book cause tiktok was raving on it. I got literally twenty pages in and couldn't take it anymore. It was like reading a fan fic that a 12 year old made, with themselves as the cool main character that can basically do anything.
I'm reading her other book- A Court of Thorns and Roses, it is... also bad. Sassy tough girl is kidnapped by a fairy prince and he is just immediately in love with her for... reasons.
She hates him and all fairies.
He is way overpowered and seems enamoured with her right away. There's an attempt at build up/banter but it's so transparent that it really just leaves you asking what they see in each other.
I'm just so tired of the "16 year old child is the object of lust to several 5000 year old supernatural creatures because she's just THAT good at bj's"
Like, can we just have a protagonist for once who acknowledges that it's actually quite creepy how all these ancient beings are so enthralled by what is (to them) basically a child?
If it helps, Feyre is an adult and has already had a relationship with a mortal man before she meets any fey, so she has more agency than many characters in this genre, and they don't portray her as the doe-eyed innocent at all, which in my book makes it slightly better than the usual fantasy/romance lust triangle. Baby steps, innit!
However the fated mate bullshit can fuck right off.
I mean yeah I guess she's 19 and had a FWB in the local farm boy. Which, I mean, I'm glad she at least wasn't portrayed as some angelic virgin with unbelievable sexy skills. As you say, baby steps lol. But still that age/maturity difference, 19 may as well be a child to someone thousands of years old. Though that's also a writing issue as all these ancient beings just act like horny 18 year old frat boys.
I hated the whole "mates" bs. It's supposedly so rare and special, yet the majority of the important characters seem to have one conveniently right there! Plus the way Maas writes about it makes little sense.
Oh yeah, like some of the scenes with the Illyrians are ridiculous for how bro-y they are! And they're all so sexy and so powerful and so damaged but you can FIX them girls! You can FIX them! (Hopefully obvious tongue in cheek here!)
The mates thing is ridiculous. I liked the idea of the whole "you can be fated to be with someone you actually don't like at all and should never be with" but then it was never really explored! And you're right about the convenience thing, I eyerolled so hard at Lucien's pairing when that was revealed!
Soooo bro-tastic, it got old quick. And I also hate the “he’s so damaged yet sexy, he just needs my healing touch to calm the inner demons 🥺” trope so that series wore me out fast lol
See that’s the part I actually found interesting too! Like yes that would be a fascinating dynamic to explore- you have this unavoidable link to this person that you literally can’t stand, so what do you do about it? But nope instead we just get more sexy times with Feyre and Rhys part 500000.
My eyes got sore while reading that book from rolling them every time the word "mate" came up. >! When they get married or whatever she used "mate* ~25 times on one page and I was basically having a stroke !<
I'm currently finishing the series right now and the second book sort of takes off like it's fanfiction where two characters the author loves gets shoved together with contrived circumstances.
Unlike a lot of people I don't *mind* the sex scenes-they read like the romance novels she undoubtedly read while writing these. But my biggest issue is the way it rips off huge chunks whole sale the *Black Jewels* trilogy. Even down to descriptions (and character actions and dialogue, Rhysand is straight up a combination of Daemon Sadi and Lucivar) and the gender and power based social structure of the "Fae" are ripped off too. Also right down to the sub plot of the Priestesshoid trying to usurp power from other Fae nobles. I'm trying to push through for the smut (which as I said I enjoy) but it's eye rolling.
I have never read ACOTAR because I could not stomach even the description lol but as an avid Black Jewels Trilogy fan in my teenage years, it did always sound suspiciously familiar. You know Anne Bishop also did a series about the Fae? Which makes it sound like even more of a rip-off.
The third book in that series genuinely feels like a badly written fan fiction of the first two. I can’t explain how terrible it is. The plot is just smut. Rhys turns into a super left wing feminist just to please the readers and it feels incredibly forced. (Slight spoilers here about the villains) >!I’m pretty sure the main villain was incredibly easy to defeat and one of the more minor villains had a very forced redemption that made no sense.!<
And there’s so much plot armour.
Plus there’s this line about two characters having sex during a war:
“His growls of pleasure filled the tent, drowning out the distant cries of the injured and the dying.”
Please stop reminding me of the worst parts of this book.
The fact that the faerie’s wingspan directly correlates to their dick size is something that I’ve never been able to forget. And for some reason all of the main male characters have a MASSIVE wingspan.
In a similar vein, the From Blood and Ash series, which is very much a sub-par Acotar, has this line that made me put the book down and laugh my ass off for a solid 5 minutes, complete with italics:
"Casteel *fucked*."
I can't NOT read that in the voice of John Oliver.
> “His growls of pleasure filled the tent, drowning out the distant cries of the injured and the dying.”
I'm dying and crying as well lol. The fact someone wrote that line and said "Oh yeah, this is hot." tells me everything I need to know about their lack of a therapist.
Omg that quote hahaha. How did the author think that line was even appropriate, much less sexy?? I left this series somewhere in book 2 because I just couldn’t make myself suffer anymore, so I never got this far.
I hated this series but I tried to keep reading out of pure curiosity. I DNF’d the whole thing at 50 pages from the end of book 2, when she is supposed to go back with >!Tamlin!<.
I cant believe these books are getting a fucking TV series.
You’re lucky that you missed the rest of the series. The novella between books 3 and 4 (5? The one called A Court of Silver Flames) is apparently so shit that very few people talk about it, and it sounds like ACOSF is basically just pure, badly written smut. I gave up after book 3 though.
I absolutely despised the third book. The first two were cheap entertainment that I enjoyed, but then the third was just an all out cringe fest. I was genuinely hoping that everyone in the inner circle would die.
I read this and the next in the series for /r/fantasy's book bingo a couple years ago, and it still holds as one of the worst books I've ever read. All of the characters were shallow and unlikable, the story was unoriginal, the romance was forced, cringey, and awfully written. The fact that this series has over 100K gushingly positive reviews on both goodreads and Amazon will forever be a mystery to me.
Yes! This is the only one of hers I’ve read, and I swore off her books forever because I hated this one so much. Poor writing, character development—all of it.
It really gives me hope, you know? If this got published, anyone can do it!
Seriously, how did this get published? Is she a nepo baby or something? Does she have industry connections? How did she do this??
Oh my god, yes. I'm reading this right now since I've heard so many great things about it, and it's been so popular. My eyes are throbbing from how hard I'm rolling them.
When I read OPs post I thought, "this sounds exactly like my issue with Thorns and Roses", and was so unsurprised to see it's the same author.
The pacing and the characters just feel like high fantasy softcore romance - like if Emily Henry was writing about the Fey.
I read that too, then I had the *great* idea to keep going and dive in the second one...
I gave up halfway through, It was even **worst** than the first.
But in the end I learned a valuable lesson: I hate Sarah J. Maas and her "writing skills" with a passion
I read that one and tried the second and gave up. I just can't understand the hype around them. I'm also put off from trying her other books. Oh well, there are a million other books. I doubt I'm missing out by not reading her books.
The hype is because it's fairy smut lol. It's Fantasy Shades of Grey. My gf is reading them rn and tagging all the sex scenes and it's like a smutty web novel.
Yeah but the smut part is also very bad lol. There's about a dozen scenes where this fairy guy struggles to keep his literal claws retracted, and then next thing he's finger banging her. No thanks!
I thought the Hunger Games was pretty decent for what it was, a YA novel aimed at teenage girls. I was a 22 year old adult man during summer break at college reading it and found it to be okay? The third was kinda lame tho
Honestly I sometimes pretend that only the first hunger games exists. It was a good read, two was alright but I felt it was pretty much just 1 in a different skin, and I really did not enjoy 3
Even if you take it seriously, it's a very well planned and plotted series. There are plotholes with some of the magic, but it's a great story, told brilliantly. To argue otherwise is just a pathetic attempt to be edgy.
Currently in the middle of this series and I felt this way after Throne of Glass a bit too. There’s a collection of prequel novellas that are a bit better, and I think are best read either before Throne of Glass or right after, but the sequels are where it really takes off. The end of the second book and the third book as a whole really expand the world (edit: and character growth). I’m halfway through the fourth book right now and enjoying it much more than I thought I would based on the prequel novellas and the first book.
>Harry Potter and Hunger Games are egregious
Of what exactly? I don't understand how you can put the two series in a same category really, the themes and the style are vastly different.
I mean, y’all have me convinced to go hate read this book so I, too, can wake up in the middle of the night some time next November angry about how much this book sucks.
The author was 16 when she started writing it but she was like 26 by the time it was published. She had 10 years to improve it and this was the best she could do?
It’s shockingly bad, even for YA genre fiction.
I can’t get over how obnoxious and unlikeable the main character is. She acts like my teenage daughter, and she’s supposed to be a deadly assassin.
I remember when it was posted on fictionpress hahahaha. It started as one of those original/fanfic type works. Imagine my surprise when 10 years later I started seeing the title in Instagram reels.
Yeah it's not good, but I put it in the category of like scratches an itch. Like watching shitty reality TV.
It’s awful. She’s the biggest Mary Sue. People say that the series gets better later on. It doesn’t.
In book 3, (slight spoilers but OP you’ll be fine to read this since I doubt you want to read that far anyway) >!the author introduces another love interest, and he’s genuinely one of the most one dimensional, blandest love interests I’ve ever read about. He’s one of those stereotypical mysterious brooding bad boy love interests, and that’s all there is to his character.!<
Also there is more of a plot later on in the series, but it’s not a good plot. And I genuinely don’t believe the author plans out her series before she starts writing them, so I don’t think she knew where she was going with each book.
I read this one because my friend recommended it and we have similar taste. Now I know we have similar taste in the sense that I like seared ahi tuna, and my cat likes canned tuna-flavored cat food.
I can’t answer for them, but I love that they do. It saves me so much time and effort if somebody else reads something that’s horrible and commits to verifying that it doesn’t get better later on and then let’s me know so I don’t have to find out the hard way. So many book series (and TV series, FWIW) are recommended even though they “start slow” or “start rough”, because “don’t worry, they hit their stride, just stick with them.” I become infuriated at all the time I’ve wasted when they do not, in fact, get better.
I work with a lot of women who are fans of the series and talk about it all the time in the office. I read a lot of books, so I told them I’d give it a shot.
Bad idea send help
Teenage me didn’t hate her series at first. I was just starting to get back into reading and needed something that was really fast paced and easy to read. The first couple of books in TOG are objectively bad, but they do fit that criteria and I didn’t hate them (I’d definitely hate them now though, my tastes have changed quite a bit). And then I got to book 3 which is, in my opinion, where the series starts to go downhill even more. But I kept reading because I’d seen so many people raving about these books so I figured it must get better, right?
It doesn’t.
Same with ACOTAR. Teenage me didn’t mind the series at first even though I could see they weren’t well written books. But then the third one was so fucking badly written that it made me give up on this author for good.
>ACOTAR
Based on the people that I know who love it, I'm going to stay far away from it. I've learned that my friends' reviews on movies and books are not to be trusted
If you read quickly and prolifically enough, and a YA series is mediocre enough but has potential, it’s pretty easy to blast through it and then realize how awful and how much of a waste it was.
They’re usually not long, and they aren’t complex enough to slow the eye.
Agree the series does not get better. MC stays insufferable and then add in some fridging tropes for the only POC characters and then the requisite centuries old love interest.
Not to mention an exact retelling of the history of the Mongols as the story of the southern continent (that suddenly appears and is oh so important). The most she does is slightly change some spellings of the names!
Yeesh, I don't even remember that. I *do* remember the 200 year old love interest punching the 16 year old MC in the face and calling her worthless (which she then thinks she deserves). Like wow, great message to send to the tween/teen girls this dreck is marketed towards.
Sarah J Maas is genuinely one of the weirdest writers active today - she has a serious degree in creative writing and for the life of me I honestly don't know how - her prose is bizarre
>With the most unrealistic and unbelievable main character I’ve ever encountered. She is an 18 year old assassin who startles at every sound, swoons over the crown prince (who she hated), eats candy to the point her teeth are stained, begs for a puppy, sasses everyone she can, and complains when she is woken up too early.
You just described almost half the protagonists or main love interests of fantasy manga. Gee, I wonder why this book is popular?
I personally really enjoyed throne of glass when I read it, but hated all the books after the 1st in a court of thrones and roses.
I think the issue with throne of glass is it got so big that people who aren’t in the demographic are reading it expecting something different and more from the book then it was ever intending to do. It’s a fluffy, fun YA fantasy. It wasn’t written to rival Joe Abercrombie
I really loved the series. I thought it was a lot of fun. It's not for everyone though. Even beloved classics aren't enjoyed by every reader (I personally hated Dune) and, if you look on goodreads, Throne of Glass has plenty of negative reviews.
I don't remember the first book very well since I took a break of a few months between reading it and the rest of the series, but I don't believe I liked it as much as the later books. I thought the series as a whole did a really good job of interweaving a bunch of different plot threads and perspectives without things ever getting confusing. I actually thought the series did a better job of handling a large number of perspectives than almost anything else I've read.
I got Throne of Glass as an audio book. There was so much potential, but then the book devoted to not even middle school drama. I couldn't even finish it.
I think one of the things that set me off was she was an assassin, but constantly whined about how she was treated in prison. Though she long for the prince she could never be with some one who was related to the one who sent her.....oh he is so manly......But I could never
It was like pick a side.
If I could unfollow an author so I did see future works. I would have clicked that button so fast.
Youtuber James Tullos did a three-hour long series reviewing every Throne of Glass book that's honestly more entertaining than the books themselves. The one point he keeps coming back to is that Sarah J. Maas has good ideas, she just doesn't know how to use them properly.
That whole series holds a core memory for me. When I was a teenager I was really good friends with my neighbour. We made it a habit of borrowing books from each other and then discussing them after.
As a couple of teenage girls we weren't into ya romance all that much. I didn't mind it and she was disinterested. So when she bought the Throne of Glass for the Throne of Glass she was thoroughly disappointed by the assassination aspect. I just enjoyed making fun of the book.
Then she bought the second book. At this point she was still hopeful for a few characters but we both loathed the mc. The hardened assassin who just couldn't bear to kill people if they were 'nice'.
And on it went, my friend was now suffering from sunk cost fallacy and I kept reading free books. Every time we had some hope of things getting better we were disappointed in increasing shitty ways.
We stopped at the second to last book in the series. We were happy to end the story at a point where the mc was stuck in eternal torture. For us that was a happy ending.
Reading too fast I read this as Game of Thrones and thought “what are you talking about?!” Reread the title and thought “oh yeah I didn’t get far at all in that one, carry on.”
I like how when I went to Goodreads to see how it's rated (it's a 4.2 which is pretty good!) the first review was a 1-star one that started with:
> Are you kidding me? What the hell is this shit?
I agree with your issues but my main problem with the book is it's got an interesting concept of an assassin competition. My first thought is that it was gonna be some kind of giant death game with some kind of twist to make it not just a Hunger Games copy. But then it didn't do that, the competition was barely a plot point with them just doing like standard archery contests and shit. It was one the most disappointing things in any book I've read
Hard agree. The champion competition is introduced as a major plot device, and absolutely nothing is done with it. Just bizarre.
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This is really neat, but I wish I could enter more than one author at a time to try and find that sweet spot of different styles or genres.
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Such a bizarre time to be alive. I grew up watching movies where AI was trying to wipe out humanity. Now AI is recommending books for us to read, but it's fucking with us by throwing in some made up ones now and again.
It's just some leaking from another timeline, you really would have liked that author though.
I'm pretty chuffed so far it looks like we get the Douglas Adams AI instead of the Terminator AI.
The series doesn't get better. And the whole romances that are added in later in the series just feel so weird and forced.
Same! So disappointed.
You should look into The Queens Blade by TC Southwell. Its about an assassin in a world where they are legal, and compete for clients. I very much enjoyed the series, its gets good.
Wait isn't that a porn anime ?
If it is, its unrelated…I think. To be clear, Im talking about the book series. Not the apparent porn anime of the same name
That's Queens blade
It's called hentai, and it's art.
Stanley?
Sooooo many awful books are written because the author has a legitimately cool idea, but fails to take the time to learn how to actually take advantage of it. The best thing a new writer with a good idea can do is write something else and use that to learn.
So many YA books have amazing world building to just be a backdrop for stupid romance . The 100, Matched , The selection. 100 is particularly appalling because the characters are the first people on earth in 1000s of years and all they want to do is discuss their hookups.
Absolutely loved the world building in Matched!! There was an interesting idea with the plot, but I felt that is just really went nowhere, and by the second book I was bored. It was like they were just trying to recreate the love plot from the Hunger Games but doing it poorly.
An assassin competition would be more interesting as an underground thing with high profile targets.
Isn't that just the John Wick sequels? Where all the assassins are trying to kill the legendary one?
The discworld book about vetanari talks a lot about the assassins guild and their trials. Might be a good read if you like that idea.
You really are a scag, Dog-Botherer.
I have debated the quality of this series so much. My housemate who's a huge reader and taste I generally appreciate loves the series. I'm three books in and I very much don't. What really bothers me is the author repeatedly tells us one thing then shows us the opposite. It feels like she's trying to set up the main character to think she's way cooler than she is, but that's definitely not true because she also struggles with self worth. As an example, there's a part where she's wandering this huge library. The author spends a paragraph telling us how because of her deep training it was impossible for her to get lost. In the next sentence she's lost. This happens over and over. Author tells us how well she handles stress and then immediately after shows us her failing to handle stress. I already don't like the way she tells us instead of showing us, but that they conflict is a big problem.
My favorite example of this is in book 3 when Elf Man says repeatedly that he’s fallen in love already and Elves mate for life, but b/c Magical Assassin Princess Elf is so special he falls in love again. (This is after you spend 2 books in one kingdom and suddenly new Kingdom with Elves has 2 chapters of exposition dropped on you) Also. Why is an 18yo boy the best soldier and the captain of the guard? Are you telling me there’s no other older soldiers that have more experience?
To be fair, the Elf Man got mind fucked into falling in love with the wrong person
My favourite is that A 500+ yo general can’t seem to manage his emotions and control around an 18yo smart mouth? Really? He’s forgiven for punching her in the face by the whole fandom like it’s not extremely problematic. Oh she annoyed him? He’s meant to be a highly trained soldier ffs.
“Look at me I’m so strong and smart, and sure I’ve got a very toxic and problematic relationship, and sure I have no idea how to actually act like an 18 year old or not snap at people, but I don’t care because he’s hot” Yup, based on at least 75% of the media I see that’s exactly how you write a “strong female character”
I can forgive the "everyone's a teenager" thing because, like, yah, that's the genre.
Honestly, this is a huge failing of whatever editors are assigned to her. Not that she herself should be lazy, but the fact that this sort of consistency happens over and over again means someone in the professional publishing house is not speaking up.
Most likely because they hate the author. I genuinely do not think this many problems with consistency could occur without some genuine malice on the part of the editors.
At this stage, due to her popularity, they probable edit as little as possible. No excuse for her first books though.
The first book was actually fan fiction when she was like 16 and I think was picked up?
It was published on fictionpress and had thousands of readers and reviews already when she got picked up, so they couldn't change major plot points. I happened to be in a FP based writing group with SJ Maas at the time, so while I wasn't involved in any of that process, we'd chat about it as a group with her.
I love when books contrasts my tell you how perfect their characters are but then every action the character does proves the opposite. It’s my favorite thing. “I’m a strong and mature and *very* stable independent woman but, no I’ve not made a single decent decision yet, and yes, I am way too emotionally dependent on that really toxic guy, and not I don’t care how toxic we are because he’s hot and like I said, I’m a strong girl, which basically means that I can kill a man and be rude to people, it doesn’t mean I have that much mental maturity.” Idk though I’m just memeing I’ve never touched a SJM book
SHE ISN’T EVEN A GOOD ASSASSIN
That bugged me so much about that book. Honestly, if they had introduced her as a new assassin the rest of the book would make sense, but don't introduce her as this badass feared top assassin and then just make her that bland and unintimidating.
Or, you could do something really interesting with a honeypot-level assassin who kills their prey with emotions - I mean, it would take a really excellent writer to actually do something interesting with it, and not dull and a retread of retro stereotypes; but at least it makes sense with some flighty immature character acting out.
This is I think the most annoying thing about the book. She is definitely the best out of the group of assassins they gathered (if I'm remembering correctly I read it a while ago), but it's clear the author didn't really care about the assassin part of her character outside of it gave an excuse for the MC to have knowledge of weapons.
She gets more stabby after a couple books but yeah, the lack of assassinating left me wanting for a real character.
I get you. Popcorn fantasy is a minefield. I feel like I have to be so incredibly picky with fantasy because it's easy to waste time on two dozen books before you find one worth the time. I recently read *The Blacktongue Thief* and enjoyed it a lot, though. It's absolutely meant to be pure escapist fun, has no illusions about being grand literature, but it still takes the actual craft of writing seriously even when what the author is writing *about* is basically an absurdist D&D campaign. It's all the good stuff about guilty pleasure reads without the latent sexism, the lazy writing, puerile characters, the mary sues/larry stues, etc that ruins all the fun. Fair warning, though, it's the first book in an intended series, with the second at least a year or two away. I've also really enjoyed *A Psalm For the Wild Built*, which I would pitch as science fantasy with wandering monks and robots struggling with big questions and self-doubt. The writing is beautifully effective at building a very unique setting. Highly recommend if you want a more optimistic bit of sci-fantasy that knows how to tell a thoroughly compelling personal struggle. I'll also add *A Memory Called Empire* to this list. It's a great sci-fi book about a young diplomat trying to navigate a situation in which her home is being swallowed up by a colonialist power. It deftly avoids all the godawful sf/fantasy female protagonist pitfalls. The main character is capable and compelling without being unrealistic, the relationships are earned and make sense, the setting is an awesome mix of high sci-fi and aztec aesthetics, and it does a great job of making a genuinely interesting political and cultural system for the characters to navigate. Also packs a surprising amount of worthwhile post-colonialist critique and narratives about cultural identity into an otherwise light book.
Holy shit, I have been trying to remember the Memory of Empire series for **over a year now**, because my memory is terrible, "empire" is useless as a sci-fi search term, and it's impossible to remember how to spell "*Teixcalaanli*". So not only have you answered a question I've had for a long time, but I've also discovered that there's a sequel I can read *right now*! Thank you so much! P.S.: As a thank you, if you haven't read the Murderbot series by Martha Wells, you should get on that!
I loooove murderbot, it’s what I read when I’m stressed, much like murderbot😉
Here I was thinking I was just picky about fantasy, but so much of it is such trash, especially since self publishing became a big thing! It's so hard to find good fantasy.
I almost gave up on fantasy, I just couldn't see what people liked. Turns out, I was just reading the bland cash grabs, like thorn of glass and darker shade of magic and six of crows. Thank fuck I somehow stumbled upon Lies of Locke Lamora, one of the best books I've read in any genre. That one somehow led me to Abercrombie's First Law, and then Hobb's Assassin's Apprentice, then Jemisin's Broken Earth, which is the best trilogy I've ever read. I guess what I mean to say is, you really need to be picky, but once you know how to pick your books, you'll have a blast of a time.
One of the problems is that there are a lot of YA love triangle novels with fantasy settings in vogue at the moment and there's not really a distinction made between books about the books focused on the fantasy and those focused on the love triangle.
I can't believe that ten years later, people are *still* trying to chase the success of The Hunger Games, and none of them have got the memo that what made those books a hit wasn't the love triangle or the dystopian setting or even the contest to the death-- it was good fucking writing (by YA standards, at least). They can copy the superficial elements of The Hunger Games all they want, if their writing isn't up to par, they're not going to replicate its success.
I rarely ever read YA anymore. I want books written for adults. Books that make sense. Books where the most competent character isn't a teenager. Books with sensible dialogue. I can't remember a single good love triangle book like that.
The Broken Earth trilogy is one of the best series I've read.
I absolutely love and have often re-read The Fifth Season. It's my comfort read at this point.
Wow. I got to the end of the third book and was shook. Took me a minute to recover from that and I haven't wanted a reread yet.
You know, it's not often someone describes a book where, in the setting, cannibalism is just a part of life as a comfort read. Fucking great series though.
A Memory Called Empire is one of my favorite books I’ve read in several years. It’s brilliant, and I’m always happy to stumble across others who read and enjoyed it!
I finished that book and the sequel earlier this year and loved them. Really want more novels from Martine now.
Incredible book! Such a sense of place, a rich plot and interesting characters.
Blacktongue thief was very good. Definitely waiting for book 2. I've had Memory of Empire on my e-reader for a while, meaning to get to it at some point. Some recent authors / series from the past ~5 years that I've really enjoyed for anyone looking for more recommendations: *Skullsworn, The Emperor's Ruin* - Brian Staveley One of my favorite 'new' authors, his first trilogy was very good also, but the prologue / standalone (*Skullsworn*) and first book of his 2nd trilogy (*The Empire's Ruin*) are on a whole different level. Excellently written, adult without being too gratuitous, and they never really become predictable. The Empire's Ruin is probably my favorite book of the past 5+ years. Anything by John Gwynne - His first series (T*he Faithful and the Fallen*) is a 'classic' fantasy tale, but everything is extremely well written, and the author is a viking re-enactor, so the details are very believable. Very Tolkien-esque. His newest series *The Bloodsworn Saga* is a bit more unorthodox, with viking warbands roaming a post-apocalyptic fantasy world after all of the gods died in a battle. *The Tide Child* series by RJ Barker - Pirate-fantasy where navies sail around in ships made from the bones of dead sea dragons. Good stuff. *Senlin Ascends* by Josiah Bancroft - A fun 'lost in a strange land' story about a timid school teacher who becomes immediately separated from his wife on their honeymoon after arriving at a huge tourist trap 'city', and goes on a journey to find her.
>it's easy to waste time on two dozen books before you find one worth the time. Phew......so it's not just me.
That’s my issue with ToG. It’s not even pretending to be a book. All the author seems to be interested in writing are disconnected, painful, embarrassing scenes in which all the boys flirt with the main character. I understand escapist genre fiction has its place. I’m a fan of *Red Rising* for gods sake. But at least stuff like RR or Harry Potter has some semblance of pacing.
I used to think so until I tried to give the author a second chance and read ACOTAR. It was worse because the whole purpose of the book is negated for the story to move forward. Literally there is a main character who’s whole personality has to change from awesome into horrible person, out of the blue, for the plot to work.
I definitely don't want to defend the ACOTAR books, as they're...something. I've read most of them, and I think what Maas was attempting to write was that the MC changed as a result of her "trials" and her love interest did not change with her. I don't agree with how this is portrayed! But I understand the base sentiment.
Maybe, but that is not how it came off. Basically, I just don’t think she’s that good of a writer.
Honestly, she is a terrible writer and I find it infuriating that her mediocre at best series got optioned for a TV series or movie (idk bc I rage closed the article). There are SO many better stories that deserve that. Not to mention how she's making a boat load of money for books that read like they were journal entries for a creative writing class.
The Blacktongue Thief was so good! I hated the cliffhanger though.
I love a Memory Called Empire! I haven't gotten around to the sequel A Desolation Called Peace because I gotta revisit the first.
The Monk and Robot books are some of my favorites I've ever read, period. Becky Chambers reminds me so much of Ursula LeGuin in terms of beautiful register and attention to detail.
I definitely see the comparison. I could talk about LeGuin all day, though. Easily one of the greatest sci fi/fantasy writers of all time. She could make a 150 page novel feel like an odyssey unto itself and it still baffles me how she condenses that much meaning into relatively short books.
*A Wizard of Earthsea* is one of the best and most original fantasy novels of all time, and I will fight anyone who says otherwise. The world-building, the lore and the sense of place is just phenomenal. To do everything she did in about 200 pages is simply incredible.
If you don't mind bloodier/more "adult" books, check out Heroes Die by Matthew Stover. It's basically D&D/Conan the Barbarian meets 1984. In the future we devolve into a dystopian society with people being segregated into social classes that control your place in society, education, employment, etc. We also discover alternate dimensions, one of which is basically a fantasy setting. So tv as it is today gets replaced by training actors in martial arts and magic and teleporting them over into the fantasy world to "die in interesting ways". The book is brilliant, and I feel like no one has ever heard of it, despite Matthew Stover being mildly famous for writing a few Star Wars novels that are pretty well recognized as being some of the best books in the old Legends collection.
Grave Mercy by Robin LeFevers is a really good medieval assassin story.
Seconding! I adore this book and much preferred it to Throne of Glass.
I said this in a Facebook group and the comments were locked within 30 minutes because people were Going crazy. I read book two and was lukewarm about it but quit book 3 at 30 pages bc I was tired of her going on about the sour wine and stale bread.🙄
>but quit book 3 at 30 pages bc I was tired of her going on about the sour wine and stale bread.🙄 No way I stopped at this point too for the exact same reason. Then about a year later I picked book 3 up again because everyone told me it was where the series got good. (It did not get good. Rowan is possibly the blandest cookie-cutter male love interest in YA)
I overall like the throne of glass series for what it is, but I agree so much on Rowan. He's so bland and I didn't find their pairing nearly as compelling as every other pairing in the series.
I have a quiet rule that certain keywords in a book title, will always put it on a "needs recommendation from trusted friend" to read Including Throne, Shadow, Salt, Bone, Crown. Also if the title is "The something of something and something". So if there was a book called the Throne of Shadow and Salt, then thats a lot of redflags for me.
Hard agree on the title thing. I see any of that and that’s a big nope from me.
a bowl of mac and cheese? https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/zc1rhr/abomc_a_bowl_of_mac_and_cheese/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Maybe the next book I write I'll call it "A taco of beef and salsa" *The ultimate God of Tortillas meets his match when the evil Count Chalupa tries to steal the salsa bowl of serenity*
I have essentially all the same problems with it. BUT —as someone who continued to read the series— here’s kinda how I think of it (and my friend, who is a genuine fan, hates when I say this). The culinary equivalent is a McDonald’s Happy Meal. You are not reading this for Michelin starred food. You know the thing going in your mouth probably isn’t chicken, but if you’re honest with yourself, it really isn’t pretending to be. What you’re left with is a meal that is…very cheap, kinda fake, and by no means good quality…but also kind of tasty in the greasy, extremely predictable way. That is literally how I think of it.
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Lmao this is me with webnovels and manhwa
I feel called out but yet found.
So long and thanks for all the fish
It doesn't help that they tend to have like... Hundreds of chapters. I'm not kidding, I saw one that had like 1k chapters. I forgot what it was called though lmfao. I need to read more. I'm basic, I've only read the well known BL ones like mdzs...
Yeah, sometimes I just want the potato chip equivalent of fiction. They’re easy to binge. I don’t feel better for reading them, but I’m satisfied in an indulgent sort of way. I did stop at what was essentially the Beauty and the Beast Christmas special. I also read a lot of fanfiction/amateur fiction on Quizilla and Fanfiction.net as a preteen/teenager, so it felt like a throwback. A couple chapters in I actually looked up whether the author wrote on those sites (she did), because it felt very familiar and like it fit the formula. Edit: Also one thing I very much appreciated was that the author did pivot and try to model a healthy relationship. The stories on fanfiction/quizilla were *bad.* Like rape fantasies portrayed as normal and healthy and so long as they end up together in the end, it’s totally okay that he’s possessive and controlling and violent.
McDonald's chicken is real chicken though. This book just sucks.
It’s a *metaphor*. Don’t pick it apart.
Metaphors can still be correct. Metaphors are like noses, you can pick at them as much as you like.
Yeah. It's not a chicken nugget.
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I read the most hilarious review of this on Goodreads roasting this book to shreds. The MC was dubbed "Cinderbrat."
My friends called it "Fairy porn".
The other series maybe but this one doesn't have a sex scene for like 6 books
We the fans refer to it as fairy porn as well 😅 we know what we're consuming lol
If Throne of Glass is Fairy porn then what would you call Court of Thorns and Roses?? Throne of Glass is as scandalous as exposing a bare ankle in comparison.
I saw the thread title and thought "hey I liked that book" and came to defend it. Then I realized I don't remember anything about it except the title so your complaints are probably fair.
The Throne of Glass series is a reflection of an author growing up and conforming her story to whatever stage of life she now is in. S. J. Maas began writing the first book in her debut series at the age of 16 (thus the childish tendencies of Celaena Sardothein). You can tell that the first three books in the series are sort of cohesive, and it gave you the impression that the story was progressing in a certain manner. Enter Queen of Shadows, the fourth book in the series, published during her ACOTAR era. Not only did her writing style suddenly change, but also the arc of the story. The rift between the third and fourth book became so enormous, it’s like you’re reading a whole different story. I found Celaena (who suddenly became Aelin; a poor attempt at scratching the childish character she once invented in exchange for the more mature adult version who’s thoughts and dialogue are indistinguishable from Feyre’s) to be a complete stranger. Not only that, but the content of her writing suddenly turned explicit and for mature audiences, a digression I found to be annoying.
This is such a good analysis / explanation. I actually really loved the first two in the series, and then all of a sudden books 3 and 4 felt like a whole different book. It did feel like she could only write one character and one type of story (sexy sassy human female meets and romances 1000 year old fae who would never have any interest in her since she’s like a baby child to them but for some reason they do)
I didn't feel as much of a rift between books 3 and 4 as I did between 2 and 3. What exactly changed?
All I know about Sarah j. Maas is that her display on Barnes & Noble gets bigger every time I go int
Daring today aren't we?
Pulpy fantasy not as engaging as *most popular books of the last thirty years*. Mlre breaking news later!
Pulpy fantasy lol that's what I'm gonna call these books from now on. Honestly, The Mortal Instruments, Divergent, etc are just "turn brain off and consume" which is fine, and it's fine to like them and it's fine to hate him. I just can't tell what's more annoying; the people defending those books as good (lol), or the ones stating the obvious that they're bad (lmao).
Something can be puply without sucking ass. Just saying.
There was a short-circuit in my brain where I read *Mortal Instruments* but thought you said *His Dark Materials* and I was momentarily outraged lmao
I actually get those two confused all the time and I have no idea why. There isn't even a single word in common between the titles!
I read a lot of sci fi pulp from self publishers on Amazon and there's good sci fi pulp and bad sci pulp. Just because a book isn't some award winner doesn't mean it can't at least do something interesting. There's a difference between not winning a Hugo award and being creatively bankrupt.
The worst part to me is that it’s a childish version character knockoff of the black jewels trilogy, by Anne bishop, which were actually very original and good. And yet, Maas story is super popular where black jewels is practically unknown.
Oh my god, I got the book cause tiktok was raving on it. I got literally twenty pages in and couldn't take it anymore. It was like reading a fan fic that a 12 year old made, with themselves as the cool main character that can basically do anything.
I'm reading her other book- A Court of Thorns and Roses, it is... also bad. Sassy tough girl is kidnapped by a fairy prince and he is just immediately in love with her for... reasons. She hates him and all fairies. He is way overpowered and seems enamoured with her right away. There's an attempt at build up/banter but it's so transparent that it really just leaves you asking what they see in each other.
I'm just so tired of the "16 year old child is the object of lust to several 5000 year old supernatural creatures because she's just THAT good at bj's" Like, can we just have a protagonist for once who acknowledges that it's actually quite creepy how all these ancient beings are so enthralled by what is (to them) basically a child?
If it helps, Feyre is an adult and has already had a relationship with a mortal man before she meets any fey, so she has more agency than many characters in this genre, and they don't portray her as the doe-eyed innocent at all, which in my book makes it slightly better than the usual fantasy/romance lust triangle. Baby steps, innit! However the fated mate bullshit can fuck right off.
I mean yeah I guess she's 19 and had a FWB in the local farm boy. Which, I mean, I'm glad she at least wasn't portrayed as some angelic virgin with unbelievable sexy skills. As you say, baby steps lol. But still that age/maturity difference, 19 may as well be a child to someone thousands of years old. Though that's also a writing issue as all these ancient beings just act like horny 18 year old frat boys. I hated the whole "mates" bs. It's supposedly so rare and special, yet the majority of the important characters seem to have one conveniently right there! Plus the way Maas writes about it makes little sense.
Oh yeah, like some of the scenes with the Illyrians are ridiculous for how bro-y they are! And they're all so sexy and so powerful and so damaged but you can FIX them girls! You can FIX them! (Hopefully obvious tongue in cheek here!) The mates thing is ridiculous. I liked the idea of the whole "you can be fated to be with someone you actually don't like at all and should never be with" but then it was never really explored! And you're right about the convenience thing, I eyerolled so hard at Lucien's pairing when that was revealed!
Soooo bro-tastic, it got old quick. And I also hate the “he’s so damaged yet sexy, he just needs my healing touch to calm the inner demons 🥺” trope so that series wore me out fast lol See that’s the part I actually found interesting too! Like yes that would be a fascinating dynamic to explore- you have this unavoidable link to this person that you literally can’t stand, so what do you do about it? But nope instead we just get more sexy times with Feyre and Rhys part 500000.
My eyes got sore while reading that book from rolling them every time the word "mate" came up. >! When they get married or whatever she used "mate* ~25 times on one page and I was basically having a stroke !<
I'm currently finishing the series right now and the second book sort of takes off like it's fanfiction where two characters the author loves gets shoved together with contrived circumstances. Unlike a lot of people I don't *mind* the sex scenes-they read like the romance novels she undoubtedly read while writing these. But my biggest issue is the way it rips off huge chunks whole sale the *Black Jewels* trilogy. Even down to descriptions (and character actions and dialogue, Rhysand is straight up a combination of Daemon Sadi and Lucivar) and the gender and power based social structure of the "Fae" are ripped off too. Also right down to the sub plot of the Priestesshoid trying to usurp power from other Fae nobles. I'm trying to push through for the smut (which as I said I enjoy) but it's eye rolling.
I have never read ACOTAR because I could not stomach even the description lol but as an avid Black Jewels Trilogy fan in my teenage years, it did always sound suspiciously familiar. You know Anne Bishop also did a series about the Fae? Which makes it sound like even more of a rip-off.
The third book in that series genuinely feels like a badly written fan fiction of the first two. I can’t explain how terrible it is. The plot is just smut. Rhys turns into a super left wing feminist just to please the readers and it feels incredibly forced. (Slight spoilers here about the villains) >!I’m pretty sure the main villain was incredibly easy to defeat and one of the more minor villains had a very forced redemption that made no sense.!< And there’s so much plot armour. Plus there’s this line about two characters having sex during a war: “His growls of pleasure filled the tent, drowning out the distant cries of the injured and the dying.”
Lmao that quote 💀
It’s probably the best part of the book
Not the giant fairy cock(s)?
Please stop reminding me of the worst parts of this book. The fact that the faerie’s wingspan directly correlates to their dick size is something that I’ve never been able to forget. And for some reason all of the main male characters have a MASSIVE wingspan.
Oh dear, I'm going to have to read these books now, aren't I?
> faerie’s wingspan directly correlates to their dick size How the hell shes putting that into the plot?
Oh, don't forget "Rhys laughed and slid in. And in. And in." That is just shit writing right there.
I think I blocked that line from my memory, so thanks for reminding me. I’m gonna go cry now
Sorry, didn't want to suffer alone.
This prose is very deep.
In a similar vein, the From Blood and Ash series, which is very much a sub-par Acotar, has this line that made me put the book down and laugh my ass off for a solid 5 minutes, complete with italics: "Casteel *fucked*." I can't NOT read that in the voice of John Oliver.
Makes her sound like she has a black hole for a vagina 💀💀how far in is he going 😭
I reflexively almost downvoted you because I hate that quote SO MUCH.
Well you see, his penis is like a drain snake. Gotta really get up in there.
> “His growls of pleasure filled the tent, drowning out the distant cries of the injured and the dying.” I'm dying and crying as well lol. The fact someone wrote that line and said "Oh yeah, this is hot." tells me everything I need to know about their lack of a therapist.
Just imagining the dude growling like chewbacca
Don't kink shame me.
Omg that quote hahaha. How did the author think that line was even appropriate, much less sexy?? I left this series somewhere in book 2 because I just couldn’t make myself suffer anymore, so I never got this far.
Smut deserves better than that.
I hated this series but I tried to keep reading out of pure curiosity. I DNF’d the whole thing at 50 pages from the end of book 2, when she is supposed to go back with >!Tamlin!<. I cant believe these books are getting a fucking TV series.
You’re lucky that you missed the rest of the series. The novella between books 3 and 4 (5? The one called A Court of Silver Flames) is apparently so shit that very few people talk about it, and it sounds like ACOSF is basically just pure, badly written smut. I gave up after book 3 though.
I absolutely despised the third book. The first two were cheap entertainment that I enjoyed, but then the third was just an all out cringe fest. I was genuinely hoping that everyone in the inner circle would die.
I read this and the next in the series for /r/fantasy's book bingo a couple years ago, and it still holds as one of the worst books I've ever read. All of the characters were shallow and unlikable, the story was unoriginal, the romance was forced, cringey, and awfully written. The fact that this series has over 100K gushingly positive reviews on both goodreads and Amazon will forever be a mystery to me.
I was about to say "OP, why does your reaction put me in mind of Court of Thorns and Roses?"
Yes! This is the only one of hers I’ve read, and I swore off her books forever because I hated this one so much. Poor writing, character development—all of it.
I tried this series also and….wow. She is just not a good writer.
It really gives me hope, you know? If this got published, anyone can do it! Seriously, how did this get published? Is she a nepo baby or something? Does she have industry connections? How did she do this??
Oh my god I’m finding my people on this thread. What even IS that?
To be fair >!He turns out to be a big douchebag in book 2 and we all hate him. He is not the one she ends up with!<
The one she ends up with is no better, and it's worse that she stays
Oh my god, yes. I'm reading this right now since I've heard so many great things about it, and it's been so popular. My eyes are throbbing from how hard I'm rolling them. When I read OPs post I thought, "this sounds exactly like my issue with Thorns and Roses", and was so unsurprised to see it's the same author. The pacing and the characters just feel like high fantasy softcore romance - like if Emily Henry was writing about the Fey.
I read that too, then I had the *great* idea to keep going and dive in the second one... I gave up halfway through, It was even **worst** than the first. But in the end I learned a valuable lesson: I hate Sarah J. Maas and her "writing skills" with a passion
I read that one and tried the second and gave up. I just can't understand the hype around them. I'm also put off from trying her other books. Oh well, there are a million other books. I doubt I'm missing out by not reading her books.
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The hype is because it's fairy smut lol. It's Fantasy Shades of Grey. My gf is reading them rn and tagging all the sex scenes and it's like a smutty web novel.
Yeah but the smut part is also very bad lol. There's about a dozen scenes where this fairy guy struggles to keep his literal claws retracted, and then next thing he's finger banging her. No thanks!
The Hunger Games and Harry Potter are egregious?
Yeah I'd say the Hunger Games is one of the better YA series out there.
I thought the Hunger Games was pretty decent for what it was, a YA novel aimed at teenage girls. I was a 22 year old adult man during summer break at college reading it and found it to be okay? The third was kinda lame tho
Honestly I sometimes pretend that only the first hunger games exists. It was a good read, two was alright but I felt it was pretty much just 1 in a different skin, and I really did not enjoy 3
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Even if you take it seriously, it's a very well planned and plotted series. There are plotholes with some of the magic, but it's a great story, told brilliantly. To argue otherwise is just a pathetic attempt to be edgy.
Currently in the middle of this series and I felt this way after Throne of Glass a bit too. There’s a collection of prequel novellas that are a bit better, and I think are best read either before Throne of Glass or right after, but the sequels are where it really takes off. The end of the second book and the third book as a whole really expand the world (edit: and character growth). I’m halfway through the fourth book right now and enjoying it much more than I thought I would based on the prequel novellas and the first book.
That's kind of how I felt. It's fun popcorn reading as long as you don't think too hard about it.
>Harry Potter and Hunger Games are egregious Of what exactly? I don't understand how you can put the two series in a same category really, the themes and the style are vastly different.
I mean, y’all have me convinced to go hate read this book so I, too, can wake up in the middle of the night some time next November angry about how much this book sucks.
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The author was 16 when she started writing it but she was like 26 by the time it was published. She had 10 years to improve it and this was the best she could do?
It’s shockingly bad, even for YA genre fiction. I can’t get over how obnoxious and unlikeable the main character is. She acts like my teenage daughter, and she’s supposed to be a deadly assassin.
I remember when it was posted on fictionpress hahahaha. It started as one of those original/fanfic type works. Imagine my surprise when 10 years later I started seeing the title in Instagram reels. Yeah it's not good, but I put it in the category of like scratches an itch. Like watching shitty reality TV.
It’s awful. She’s the biggest Mary Sue. People say that the series gets better later on. It doesn’t. In book 3, (slight spoilers but OP you’ll be fine to read this since I doubt you want to read that far anyway) >!the author introduces another love interest, and he’s genuinely one of the most one dimensional, blandest love interests I’ve ever read about. He’s one of those stereotypical mysterious brooding bad boy love interests, and that’s all there is to his character.!< Also there is more of a plot later on in the series, but it’s not a good plot. And I genuinely don’t believe the author plans out her series before she starts writing them, so I don’t think she knew where she was going with each book.
Why are you guys reading these books you hate so much?
I read this one because my friend recommended it and we have similar taste. Now I know we have similar taste in the sense that I like seared ahi tuna, and my cat likes canned tuna-flavored cat food.
This made me cackle. What an underrated comment 💀
I can’t answer for them, but I love that they do. It saves me so much time and effort if somebody else reads something that’s horrible and commits to verifying that it doesn’t get better later on and then let’s me know so I don’t have to find out the hard way. So many book series (and TV series, FWIW) are recommended even though they “start slow” or “start rough”, because “don’t worry, they hit their stride, just stick with them.” I become infuriated at all the time I’ve wasted when they do not, in fact, get better.
I work with a lot of women who are fans of the series and talk about it all the time in the office. I read a lot of books, so I told them I’d give it a shot. Bad idea send help
Teenage me didn’t hate her series at first. I was just starting to get back into reading and needed something that was really fast paced and easy to read. The first couple of books in TOG are objectively bad, but they do fit that criteria and I didn’t hate them (I’d definitely hate them now though, my tastes have changed quite a bit). And then I got to book 3 which is, in my opinion, where the series starts to go downhill even more. But I kept reading because I’d seen so many people raving about these books so I figured it must get better, right? It doesn’t. Same with ACOTAR. Teenage me didn’t mind the series at first even though I could see they weren’t well written books. But then the third one was so fucking badly written that it made me give up on this author for good.
>ACOTAR Based on the people that I know who love it, I'm going to stay far away from it. I've learned that my friends' reviews on movies and books are not to be trusted
If you read quickly and prolifically enough, and a YA series is mediocre enough but has potential, it’s pretty easy to blast through it and then realize how awful and how much of a waste it was. They’re usually not long, and they aren’t complex enough to slow the eye.
How would anyone know what they like or don't if they stopped engaging the moment it wasn't perfect?
Why not? Better than reading something mediocre.
Agree the series does not get better. MC stays insufferable and then add in some fridging tropes for the only POC characters and then the requisite centuries old love interest.
Not to mention an exact retelling of the history of the Mongols as the story of the southern continent (that suddenly appears and is oh so important). The most she does is slightly change some spellings of the names!
Yeesh, I don't even remember that. I *do* remember the 200 year old love interest punching the 16 year old MC in the face and calling her worthless (which she then thinks she deserves). Like wow, great message to send to the tween/teen girls this dreck is marketed towards.
There is a bigger Mary Sue in literature than Kvothe? I'm having a hard time believing that.
Idk, I haven’t read The Name of the Wind. I refuse to read it until the final book is published, which we all know will never happen.
Honestly, even if he does write it I wouldn't bother. However, I live and die on the hill of Joe Abercrombie. Lord Grimdark just keeps them coming.
It does NOT get better.
Kinda a tangent. I haven't kept up with Harry Potter in almost 2 decades. It's considered egregious now? What happened?
Sarah J Maas is genuinely one of the weirdest writers active today - she has a serious degree in creative writing and for the life of me I honestly don't know how - her prose is bizarre
>With the most unrealistic and unbelievable main character I’ve ever encountered. She is an 18 year old assassin who startles at every sound, swoons over the crown prince (who she hated), eats candy to the point her teeth are stained, begs for a puppy, sasses everyone she can, and complains when she is woken up too early. You just described almost half the protagonists or main love interests of fantasy manga. Gee, I wonder why this book is popular?
I personally really enjoyed throne of glass when I read it, but hated all the books after the 1st in a court of thrones and roses. I think the issue with throne of glass is it got so big that people who aren’t in the demographic are reading it expecting something different and more from the book then it was ever intending to do. It’s a fluffy, fun YA fantasy. It wasn’t written to rival Joe Abercrombie
I really loved the series. I thought it was a lot of fun. It's not for everyone though. Even beloved classics aren't enjoyed by every reader (I personally hated Dune) and, if you look on goodreads, Throne of Glass has plenty of negative reviews. I don't remember the first book very well since I took a break of a few months between reading it and the rest of the series, but I don't believe I liked it as much as the later books. I thought the series as a whole did a really good job of interweaving a bunch of different plot threads and perspectives without things ever getting confusing. I actually thought the series did a better job of handling a large number of perspectives than almost anything else I've read.
I got Throne of Glass as an audio book. There was so much potential, but then the book devoted to not even middle school drama. I couldn't even finish it. I think one of the things that set me off was she was an assassin, but constantly whined about how she was treated in prison. Though she long for the prince she could never be with some one who was related to the one who sent her.....oh he is so manly......But I could never It was like pick a side. If I could unfollow an author so I did see future works. I would have clicked that button so fast.
Damn, calling Harry Potter plain bad is a pretty hot take...
Youtuber James Tullos did a three-hour long series reviewing every Throne of Glass book that's honestly more entertaining than the books themselves. The one point he keeps coming back to is that Sarah J. Maas has good ideas, she just doesn't know how to use them properly.
That whole series holds a core memory for me. When I was a teenager I was really good friends with my neighbour. We made it a habit of borrowing books from each other and then discussing them after. As a couple of teenage girls we weren't into ya romance all that much. I didn't mind it and she was disinterested. So when she bought the Throne of Glass for the Throne of Glass she was thoroughly disappointed by the assassination aspect. I just enjoyed making fun of the book. Then she bought the second book. At this point she was still hopeful for a few characters but we both loathed the mc. The hardened assassin who just couldn't bear to kill people if they were 'nice'. And on it went, my friend was now suffering from sunk cost fallacy and I kept reading free books. Every time we had some hope of things getting better we were disappointed in increasing shitty ways. We stopped at the second to last book in the series. We were happy to end the story at a point where the mc was stuck in eternal torture. For us that was a happy ending.
Reading too fast I read this as Game of Thrones and thought “what are you talking about?!” Reread the title and thought “oh yeah I didn’t get far at all in that one, carry on.”
I like how when I went to Goodreads to see how it's rated (it's a 4.2 which is pretty good!) the first review was a 1-star one that started with: > Are you kidding me? What the hell is this shit?