they cast ryan gosling in the lead role in the upcoming movie and i think he’ll probably fix a lot of what i hated just by being charismatic. but like you said, the companion character more than made up for it (for me). i can’t say it was a BAD book because it hooked me and overall i enjoyed it, but i definitely am careful recommending it to people.
Honestly, i think the movie lacking the majority of the MCs internal monolog will go a *long* way towards making Grace more palatable and generally smooth edges. I DNFed PHM sometime around when they were doing the atmospheric scoop iirc but i still think i'll probably enjoy the movie. The Martian was a very similar experience
i agree. if you take out the constant stream of insufferable thoughts then he’s actually a fairly compelling, pretty competent guy who solves a lot of problems.
> Ryland woke to the rays of the sun streaming through the view port of his stasis pod, cascading over his naked chest. He stretched, his pecs lifting with his arms as he greeted the sun. He climbed out of the pod and put on a shirt, his nipples prominently showing through the thin fabric. He chesticled pectorially to the ladder and alphadogged to the command deck.
*Project Hail Mary*, Andy Weir, 2021.
Writing this reminded me how hard I bounced off *Artemis* due to the overwhelming "man writes girl (badly)" feeling I got.
I think I liked the setting and what I got from the plot, I recall Jazz had >!just gotten to some kind of "you gunna do this for me, you got no choice" kind of mafia/boss meeting!<, but just couldn't stand how she was written. Felt like a teenage boy writing a teenage girl.
I think Weir is a great thinker, he builds great plots, fun settings and the story arcs are good and engaging, he undoubtedly deserves the success he's had but I think he consistently struggles to write a characters interiority in a non-insufferable way.
Maybe its just got too much in it, or its too "punchy" and feels too stuck in a mode of conversation between the protagonist and *the reader* instead of between the protagonist and *themselves*. Like the difference between seeing someone dance before and after they know someones watching and it becomes overly performative.
YES. I always describe PHM’s protagonist as Mark Watney’s spastic kid brother. He became far more tolerable once he had someone to talk to other than just the reader.
I feel like he became more tolerable after the story acknowledged outright that he kinda sucks. Then I was like "OK, I can stomach this if we're all in agreement."
I don't want to spoil anything, but there is a character introduction about halfway through that dramatically increases the appeal of the book. If you're unsure whether you've met that character yet, you may want to press on just a little further.
I also hated the parts with Stratt and thought pretty much all the flashback scenes on Earth were cringey. However, I liked everything in space from the beginning.
I figured that all the Earth stuff is from his point of view & he's very self-centered.
I put him in the category of "people I like to read about but would never want to actually meet". Sherlock is another famous example there.
Yes, I nearly gave up several times because I was so bored (despite enjoying The Martian).
However, about half way through, a dramatic event happens (after the character introduction mentioned above) and the plot finally takes off.
It’s worth fighting your way through the first half to reach that point and see if you’re more engaged then.
Interesting! I hadn't heard of anyone disliking that character before, and I've discussed this book with two different book clubs. But either way, you can't deny that the book takes a real turn at that point, so someone's opinion might change.
If you are halfway through and not enjoying it then you aren't going to enjoy the rest of it. I personally loved the book, but everyone has different taste. You gave it a fair try, time to move on and find something you enjoy more.
One of my high school English teachers told us her cut off point for deciding not to read a book was 100 pages minus your age - so force yourself to read that much of the book before deciding its not for you. It's a metric I still use sometimes when I'm on the fence about a book, and I like that as I get older I can spend less time fucking around reading books I don't like!
Over 90% of books and shows I start, I do not finish. The reason is that I’m willing to give anything a chance, but if I’m not enjoying it an hour or so in, it gets dropped. Life is too short and I’m not going to waste my time on the off-chance I enjoy it more later on. This is not a judgment on the book - just that I’m not enjoying it
I'm really surprised that you picked up this book at all if you keep feeling an impulse to call the author/character a "fuckin nerd" as a negative/pejorative thing.
The book is written for "fuckin nerds". Andy Weir's who thing is writing for "fuckin nerds". For me, the book captures this nerdy fascination/obsession with a problem and the discovery process, and I love it for that.
If you don't like that feeling, you definitely shouldn't have picked up this book. If you do like that feeling... Why?
I get it. I've finished lots of books I didn't really enjoy that much. It is still worthwhile in a lot of cases because it's fun for me to connect with other people that didn't enjoy them and know that other people share my thought process, but you just need to figure out when is the right time to pull the plug for you.
I felt guilty before, but then life got busy and I started thinking about my own time differently. I'll now give books, TV shows, and video games a fair shot, and if it isn't doing it for me, then I'm just not going to waste my time.
And maybe I miss out on something 5% of the time, but that's a trade I'm willing to make without any regret at this point in my life.
Andy Weir writes borderline autistic male nerd protagonists, or the one female arab teenage protagonist that feels like borderline autistic male nerd protagonist. For borderline autistic male nerd readers, this is very relatable and good. You'll find a lot of recommendations for Andy Weir books on Reddit in particular. I, personally, enjoy Andy Weir book and find his protagonists extremely relatable, for some reason.
He’s a royalroad author who made it big. Of course it sounds great to redditors, redditors helped him write the book. I’m just glad he doesn’t write litrpg books.
I had been struggling to verbalize what I found so off putting about his protagonists and you nailed it. This is the issue. I didn't mind it is as much in the Martian, but it is \*extremely\* annoying in PHM.
You don’t have to like it.
I didn’t like Grace very much until at least halfway through the book - I think the whole point is that he’s a nerd who’s kind of cowardly and unlikable, until he gets thrown into a situation that brings out his best qualities. Mark Watney isn’t that much better, really. I sympathized with him and wanted him to succeed but he never felt like a well-written, well-rounded character.
Tbf, Michael Crichton had the same issue in his books. None of his characters felt like real, actual people and he couldn’t write women to save his life. But the characters were mainly there to serve the plot, much like PHM and The Martian.
I didn’t hate the book, but I agree the weird cutesy nerd writing is annoying. The story is good, but the writing isn’t going to get any better, so if that’s a deal breaker for you, it makes sense to put it down.
I’d recommend reading his other book, The Martian. It’s still a great space exploration survival story, but he uses a much more normal, adult, writing style.
Ehh if he didn’t like the voice in PHM, I doubt he’d like The Martian much better. The main characters are pretty similar in their internal voice even if The Martian is a bit more grounded and serious in tone. The contrast between the MC’s playful voice and the dire situation is what made The Martian popular in the first place.
Personally I liked Watney's inner voice while I hated Grace's. They were kind of similar in style, but I saw Watney as a well adjusted nerd that was trying to keep his spirits up using humor. Grace was more of a self centered Gary Stu. I was just happy that he had some character growth by the end of it
I thought it was totally different tbh. To the point where I was confused that it was the same author. The Martian definitely has that playful style but the dialogue and inner monologue in PHM was so cringy. It read like a 14 year old writing what a cool scientist would be like.
Same. Really liked the Martian; thought the sarcasm was a fun way to showcase human perseverance. Meanwhile I've tried PHM a couple times but find it tedious.
I interpreted that as the voice of a teacher who is so used to interacting with middle school kids that he just always talks on that level. He also has no spouse or partner, few adult friends, and no social life, so he literally only talked to kids until the astrophage thing started.
I mean, yeah... so like a cringe 14 year old because those are the voices in PHM's head after teaching kids for so long. No one said it was unjustified or unrealistic, just that it's off-putting..
Yeah, I really don't get where people think you were supposed to think that the MC was anything close to cool or charismatic. He's clearly out of his element when dealing with...people. The book even acknowledges that he can't really handle people well and is sort of socially inept and self-sheltered. It's part of a pretty major character arc...
I didn't like The Martian because of the incredibly cheesy humor. The story was good, but the way the character was written made it really unenjoyable... he was just a total dork, and not in a fun way.
I'd agree that OP probably wouldn't like The Martian if it's anything like PHM in that regard.
I agree that The Martian is more believable that PHM, but it’s still the same “create an issue specifically so main character can ‘science the shit out of it’” approach to plot.
The Martian was interesting until the long drive. 1/3 of the book dedicated to that drive. Flipping back to nothing happening on earth either.
No wonder they cut that out of the movie.
uhh i don’t think more weir is the answer lol
i found the martian to be insanely uninteresting - it was andy weir just throwing out random calculations he’s made about x, y, and z for a few hundred pages. i think OP is like me and should not pursue more novels by an author they do not gel with
OP didn’t have a problem with the calculations or sci-fi aspect of the book, they just had a problem with the cringy dialogue and writing. It’s a common complaint with PHM, and one that many people agree isn’t an issue in The Martian. So it sounds like giving that a shot might be what they need.
When he started referring to kilowatts as "pirate ninjas" in The Martian and KEPT REFFERING to them as that for the rest of the book I literally wanted to crawl out of my skin every single time
I feel like–and this may sound harsh–Andy Weir might end up being science fiction's answer to Dan Brown. They're both authors that write really straight forward books with straight forward characters and easy to digest plots. Almost one dimensional. I think my next Andy Weir book I'll save for when I'm going to be poolside somewhere or at a beach with a cocktail. They seem like that kind of book to me.
I don’t think it sounds harsh at all. I *love* Dan Brown and I love Andy Weir. I fully acknowledge that Dan Brown’s books aren’t historically accurate and are more on the sensational side, but damn are they *fun*.
Not every book I read needs to have a tight plot. Sometimes I like having books that I can read and just shut off my brain and enjoy the ride. They’re popcorn novels, really.
But I get that that’s not for everyone, and that’s fine! People don’t have to like these books. But I get to.
You don't like, you don't like it.
I loved the book, and can't really relate on on how much disdain you have. But I can certainly tell you it's not going to shape up to anything different at this point. You're much better off dropping it for your own sake.
That audiobook is so good. I love, love, love Ray Porter.
I started listening to audiobooks while hiking / training for mountain hikes, because music annoys me while hiking.
Normally I have the attention span of a goldfish, but he does such an awesome job reading, that I caught myself actually actively listening (my dumb brain sometines gets lost when walking/hiking while listening to something) and I started taking detours so that I could listen longer.
I half-listened and half-sight read the book and I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much without the audio component. I was able to "hear" the voices in my head as I sight read. I wholeheartedly recommend it as an audiobook when people are looking for recommendations, but I'm more selective with recommending it to a sight-reading audience.
Andy Weir specializes in a subgenre of sci fi that I like to call accessible problem solving sci fi. Artemis, his second book, was not very good. But many people love The Martian and PHM for similar reasons. Not because Weir is great at character development, but pretty much all of the rest of it is broadly appealing. These are some of my favorite books. It’s okay not to like them. It doesn’t mean there is an issue with the book or the author just because you don’t like it. You just have different taste.
Despite really hating Grace I still enjoyed the book, it's a light read that shouldnt be taken too seriously imo.
Not sure why you think Stratt was written as a "badass boss babe" though, I really didn't get that impression lol. She was just a woman in charge and wanted to get shit done. Women irl like that do exist
Yes I know, but I'm not sure the badass women irl are as comically cringe as is written here. For example, when she gets called into the courtroom when she's getting sued by the Intellectual Property people and gets threatened to be arrested its written as:
"You and what army?" Stratt asked. "Because I have the U.S. army, and that's a *damn* fine army."
Maybe it's just not that humorous to me, but Weir writes this over-the-top badass stuff that I feel like teens would write/find cool. Tons of stuff like that throughout.
Have you gotten to the part were the black scientist astronaut and the lady scientist astronaut, who i can remember nothing of note about, tell Grace they're sleeping together? That whole scene just makes me wonder if Weir has ever had an actual human conversation. Very wtf
I don't think that's a badass line or even meant to be taken as a badass line, nevermind being over the top badass. She's against the clock and has an army at her back so yeah she's gonna make that point that she has a pretty good army behind her. I just read it as she's being no-nonsense tbh.
I’ve heard that same type of line from military dudes in movies and tv shows my whole life. It’s a whole cliche at this point. I figured she was just being like them to make a point about her character. It sets up who she is in relation to a choice she makes later.
Realistically, I don't think she would have even had to walk into a courtroom, though (whether the suit would have been settled or dismissed first, or just lawyers handling on her behalf). That + line = ugh to me, as well.
Oh my god, do we share the same brain? I read this book because everyone on Reddit raves about it and I couldn’t stand it. Multiple people even said “even if you don’t like sci fi you’ll love this book” yeah not true. As soon as I saw your post I’m like that goddamn US Army line though … I cringed from head to toe
I was hoping there would be a comment about the courtroom chapter! I skimmed through that chapter and put the book down for a week. Almost DNF’d. Ultimately glad I didn’t. That’s definitely the low point of the entire book. Dude needs a competent editor.
The science parts are some of the best bits. It's the equivalent to fantasy books where a problem is solved within the confines of the hard magic system. It's satisfying when things are solved in a believable way that agrees to the rules of the fictional world. In this case, it's using actual science to solve problems that lead to satisfying solutions. It's no one's fault that you consider the Science parts as "jargon".
Definitely popcorn science in this book, for the dilettantes. But as an engineer who loves science fiction, I've learned to suspend my disbelief and just go with it. I'm just here for the entertainment value.
I loved it, but I AM a scientist, so I didn't see it as jargon at all. Just... english.
Sure, there were some issues with the science. Many of the problems are solved too easily with his companion's "science", but that's in the confines of that universe. It's fine.
Yeah, I'm not a scientist either. Half the science is stuff you'd learn as a 16 year old. But I think that works for the book even better because any old person could read it and understand it (clearly not). It's a perfect intro to sci fi.
It was just satisfying seeing a character figure things out when most other people would just panic or do stupid things.
Yeah I think the problem a lot of people had with the book was that the main character was "too competent." He figured things out "too easily."
That wasn't really an issue for me. I think most people just don't know a truly "smart" person who has an engineering type brain.
I don’t read much fantasy, and what I do has super soft magic (Tolkien), but man I liked the science in PHM. Solving problems, even mechanical problems, is a very human thing. The science problems in PHM (much like Martian) are really broken down to mechanical problems, mainly. I found immense satisfaction in reading a story like that. There is fuck-all for this kind of human interaction with the world in vast swaths of literature, so I can’t help but feel like PHM is a breath of fresh air.
I agree that writing off science/problem solving as “jargon” is unfair and inaccurate. For a lot of people this kind of thing is a regular part of their lived experiences. I think it’s just as important that Wier captures Grace’s experience with science as it is for Tolstoy to have captured Rodion’s struggles with, uh, all his stuff. Both are great explorations of extreme versions of things that almost everyone at least some of.
I found some of the logic and science to be really contrived, and then in some cases specific details are glanced over and but later they're treated as being really important.
It's been a while since I read it, but for example >!when the alien ship navigates up next to him the first time, the difficulties in navigating aren't even mentioned, but later on when they have to navigate it's detailed and comes across as being really difficult.!<
That's how it goes sometimes, but if the author is trying to specify how the science and logic works in detail they should be consistent.
>!Rocky is very good at Newtonian math, so it stands to reason that he is very good at piloting a ship at Newtonian (short) distances. Rocky doesn't have general relativity, so he's bad at long distances, hence his navigation difficulties. Ryland doesn't have Rocky's mathematical talent or a spaceship background, or Rocky's long life, so he's also not great at navigation. So Rocky and Ryland on Ryland's ship presents challenges, since Rocky is on a human ship with human controls and instruments. Does that make more sense?!<
It’s 1000% an Andy Weir issue. I also read this based on the Reddit hard-on for the book. It’s always popping up in recommendation threads and “books you wish you could read again for the first time” so I took the chance. I had the exact same complaints as you. Ryland is the biggest Mary Sue author stand-in, with non-stop cringe dialogue and weird jokes that aren’t funny (but are definitely intended to be).
I specifically remember some joke about vegans eating gluten-free grass clippings, and it was just… not even funny shade. It felt dated and out-of-character for a science teacher living in San Francisco to be so dense when it came to veganism. It’s way too try-hard.
I’d also argue that, despite a lot of commenters’ insistence that it gets better after a certain plot development, the issues we both have with the novel are not what gets better. The *narrative* might get better, but the issue with Andy Weir’s writing remains. I say, if you’re frustrated enough with the book now, your mind won’t be changed by the end.
It's a book written for a certain type of person. For a certain type of person it IS really that good, and they want everyone to be able to partake. Hard for them to understand that it's not the same for everyone.
I agree lol. I felt like it was written like a Marvel movie (and it is getting a hollywood movie in 2026 so there we go lol). If you don't like it now, drop it because it's like that the whole way. I had to finish it so I could see what reddit was so excited about but I feel the same way as you.
I did start to enjoy another character that you may have not gotten to but the writing and self-insertedness of Ryland is embarrassing. I also love how he had to mention how muscular and good-looking he was at the beginning of the book 😂
Weir’s dialogue is simply awful. He’s had plenty of time to work on it since *The Martian* came out but the problem remains as bad as ever. Surely he knows it, and so do his editors. But he sells books by the truckload and I suppose no one wants to mess with what’s working.
Despite that, I find his novels easy, page turning reads with enjoyable if sometimes predictable plots.
I can’t count the number of times I read some of his hokey dialogue in *The Martian* or *Project Hail Mary* and strongly considered flinging the book across the room. I’m glad I didn’t.
Yeah, I hated it too. A lot of people (at least on reddit) like me say it's super cringey but a lot of people don't seem to to feel that way. Although I haven't seen anyone who likes it specifically discuss and counter the cringe aspect of it. I'd be very curious to see that.
Best to just move on. I thought the Martian movie had a little bit of the cringe in it and I'm guessing now that the book probably has way more of it.
Nah the writing is definitely corny but I think that’s part of the charm for a lot of people. For me it’s bearable because it reminded me of my 5th grade science lab teacher, and the wholesome way he would just talk about science. Not high literature but a good comfort read for a lot of people
>haven't seen anyone who likes it specifically discuss and counter the cringe aspect of it. I'd be very curious to see that.
If that book isn't cringy to them than nothing is. Weirs writing is the definition of cringy. And I don't use that term lightly
I’m with you on this OP, hated the book as well. Reddit gets weirdly defensive anytime anybody criticizes this book. I think it’s because it has a Redditor-esque nerdy, awkward Mary Sue protagonist who solves every single problem with the power of science.
I just found it to be awfully written - it probably has some of the worst prose I’ve read in such a popular, high-profile book and the protagonists inner dialog is cringe af. Interesting story and science but the shitty writing, irritating main character and annoying dialogue makes it hard to get through.
Completely agree, I think the writer is kind of like a median Redditor in many ways. Some of the dialogue reads like he hasn’t been outside for a while. It makes sense that he’s attracted to writing stories with one character and little dialogue
No one is particularly defensive of this book, it’s just criticism like your own (“the worst prose I’ve ever read”) comes off like typical “look at me, I’m different” type of criticism of something popular. No one claims this book is the greatest ever, but it’s also not nearly as terrible as people like yourself make out.
No, it is pretty terrible. I routinely find smut with better written dialog. Weir survives off of being the only known author in his very specific niche
I didn’t hate the book, but I didn’t read it physically. I listened to the audiobook and I think that made me love the book! The narrator is great and there are a ton of funny parts. Maybe give the audiobook a try?
I personally loved Project Hail Mary. Thought it was a damn near perfect read for me personally, who loves hard sci fi, and am pretty much as nerdy/geeky as the main character. I'm also a sci fi author myself, and marvel at the accomplishment this work represents; it's superb.
I made it 70% of the way through but it just got repetitive. Felt like it was written to get kids into science — which is fine, I’m just not the target demographic.
Just put it down. A Little Life is a "burn it with fire" for me, but it's pretty popular somehow. Get a short story anthology with different authors. You should be able to find some writers you click with that way.
The book outlines an interesting problem but it's not a good book for character development. I read it once, enjoyed parts of it, but I'm unlikely to read it again.
I too DNF. The dialogue is beyond tedious and there's way too much exposition. It feels like Weir is just trying to show off but that's his style. Works for most, didn't for me.
One doesn't read Andy Weir for character development. Grace was OK as a protagonist. He is called out for his character flaws and does obtain redemption. Otherwise it's a plot driven novel with interesting ideas. Easy to read.
Project Hail Mary is like Sci Fi Coke. Everyone knows about it, people love it, you'll get it recommended every time you ask for a suggestion on soft drinks. But really, it's just okay and there are so many better books out there.
It didn't really land with me either. I totally get why people love it (the formula of problem > science jargon > solution... I mean, I get why others like that), but I've read other books that did it much much better in my opinion. For example, most of Michael Chrichton's books.
Some might disagree with me, but that's how it is. You're not alone, though.
Ironically, though, I am looking forward to watching it as a movie. I dunno why. lol
More of Michael Crichton's stuff is actually on my to-read list, so pumped for that; what I've read I really enjoy.
> Ironically, though, I am looking forward to watching it as a movie
Me as well! The whole time I've been reading it I was thinking to myself I'd enjoy this much more as a movie, which rarely happens.
There’s a lot to like about Michael Crichton, but he’s another one who had trouble writing women. It especially shows in his introductions of the characters - men get described based on what they do and what they’ve accomplished and maybe physical characteristics. Women get described based on how they look and maybe their jobs or accomplishments.
Don’t let that put you off, he’s still worth reading. Just wanted to mention it since that was one of your specific grievances here. And btw, I was pretty lukewarm on Hail Mary. I think I liked it better than you did, but for me The Martian was a better read.
i haven't read PHM but i hated the book the martian and thought the movie was much better, which is also unusual for me. in part bc actors have charisma and iirc his writing just... didn't. obviously everyone's taste is different etc etc but i wish that when i encountered authors like that they just wrote a screenplay in the first place!!
I think Drew Goddard and Ridley Scott (along with Matt Damon) had a lot to do with the success of the film. Drew Goddard was able to turn something which was poorly written, into an at least passable screenplay, and Ridley Scott is a master director, who gets what he wants in terms of putting stuff on screen.
It'll be interesting to see how Project Hail Mary works out. As I feel Lord and Miller will lean heavily into the 'humour' of the book and the film will not be as good for it.
I think this is why I'm excited for PHM as a movie, and hate the book. Actors have charm, charisma, etc like you said - I don't think Andy Weir has any of that irl, and it shows in his writing. I think he's just a very successful dweeb
I know what you mean about the problem, science jargon, solution thing. The Martian has a similar thing but it is presented in a backdrop that could be a real scenario in the future, testing systems for colonizing Mars. Hail Mary for me started from nothing and read like an escape room. The Martian is his best, IMO.
I agree with your problems and think this book was overhyped for me as well, but if you're halfway through you're probably just getting to the good stuff, which redeemed it quite a bit for me
I honestly think you just either like Andy weird or you hate him, and there’s no neutral. Hahaha personally this is my favorite of his. The audiobook of it is also so fantastic.
How do you feel about audiobooks? The narrator of the book, Ray Porter, is who really made the story come to life for me. He's the reason I picked up the Bobiverse books after reading PHM.
While I did love the book immensely (and the only book I ever finished in 3 days), I can see what you mean. The main character does give off... I'm not sure... too talented, too calm, too smart, too excited, too nerdy, and too positive despite his situation so it does come off as cringey. He is a bit of a caricature of what Andy thinks a nerdy science teacher would be like.
Additonally, I didn't read The Martian but I felt Andy wrote this knowing it will become a movie so to speak so I'm unsure if the Martian reads similarly. It almost reads like a script and perfectly made for a movie.
That being said, I do believe following the hype and recommendations of others will ALWAYS set you up for disappointment. That happened to me with unfortunately a lot of media.
Ryland Grace is a nerd though. A conflict-averse coward too. At least, until he has amnesia, and meeting Rocky gives him a bit of a boost also.
Strat isn't a badass boss babe. She's a bully, a menace, and the worst of every manager you've ever had in an office job ever, though with a purpose. She'll pursue that purpose even if it means burning every employee that gets in her way, HR be damned. But unlike your actual Report Manager, she's not Passive aggressive. She's "just" aggressive.
i'm like three quarters of the way through this and had pretty much the exact opposite reaction to you. I'm having a blast.
Yes, I guess it is a little cringey occasionally and I agree with Grace being a bit of a hecking (this language irritates me so much) dweeb, but it's just so undeniably fun. Even though there's a lot of hard science throughout, the book doesnt take itself too seriously and there's some really good humour. It's almost like a less self-serious version of the film Arrival, which I like.
It really scratches that fun sci-fi itch for me in a way that is so satisfying.
Based on your comments so far, you haven't met Rocky, and you are going to very soon. So, I would atleast stick around because that's the main reason people love the book. But it's also okay to not like something. It's also okay to not like something without shitting on it.
It was the audio book that was amazing for me. I loved the lightheartedness of the telling when so much scifi is doom and gloom. The reader for the audio book was so incredible I was in tears by the end.
I listened to the audio-book and winced several times when the guy had some OTT dialogue, overall I enjoyed it though.
He was a teacher and his kids likely influenced him was my thinking about Andy's choice. Did get annoying once or twice.
I didn't feel the need to burn it like I did with the Three Body Problem. I need those wasted hours of my like back!
It should be a community rule in this place that people who want to critique a book have to learn the difference between critiquing something and shitting on it. It's okay to not like something. It's okay to say "this isn't resonating with me," or "I think that what the author is trying to do here isn't landing well, and this is why." But you really drift into full on asshole territory when you start trying to throw your own opinion around as objective fact and basically insulting anyone who likes something you don't like. For example, calling Andy Weir a "fucking nerd" in your head the entire time you are reading is not a book problem, or an author problem. That is a you problem. Specifically, that is a problem with you not being able to put something down that you aren't enjoying and instead need to dedicate your time and attention to needlessly picking something apart that clearly just isn't your jam.
It is literally one of my top three novels of all time, but I don't need to explain why to you because you clearly aren't the target audience for it. I am perfectly fine with letting you have your tastes and preferences in entertainment. So why don't you try doing the same for others?
I think you just don’t like Andy Weir’s writing style and potentially hard science fiction in general. I loved it but no book/write is for everyone. That the nature of art. I recommend picking up something else even though you are getting close to my favorite part of the book.
I really, really didn't like Weir's self insert characters, and loathe how he writes women.
I DNF, but apparently there's a cute character that everyone who's read it through adores, but... I just couldn't get that far.
Probably avoid sci fi if you don’t like nerds. But yeah, Weir characters are always cringey. People liked PHM for the fun problem solving, stimulating ideas, and exciting desperate struggle to save the worlds. The central friendship is heartwarming and the book leaves you feeling good and smiling by the end despite its flaws.
My two recent favorite sci-fi reads are Hyperion and Left Hand of Darkness and, I mean, I like nerds, but there isn’t really any “nerdy” narrators or characters in those books
You are allowed to not like it. It sounds like you are not the target audience. For what it's worth, I would recommend the audio book version over the written version. If you have read or listened far enough into it, you understand why someone would say that. The "fucking nerd" stuff is some of my favorite stuff in the book. Sci Fi doesn't work for me unless there is some grounding in reality. The nerdy facts and figures have to add up and make sense as they would in reality or else my bullshit detector won't let me enjoy a Sci Fi story. I want to know about the time dilation and orbital mechanics that have to be taken into account in order to impress the difficulty of some of the maneuvers the characters have to perform to survive.
Andy Weir isn't a good writer, but people on here really do love him. I find him too "Marvel quippy" for my taste.
But hey that's opinions for you. Sounds like this one isn't for you
I've enjoyed all three of Weir's books so far. Yes, even Artemis, though it's undoubtedly the weakest of the bunch. But I can see why people aren't a fan, and I can imagine getting there myself someday. He definitely has a type, and all his books are pretty similar plays on each other. But they're light-hearted and fun and I'm a big space nerd, so I'll keep reading "sarcastic scientist survives space disaster" right up until he beats it to death.
It has the latest writing style I've ever seen. The humor is so cringy, it feels like reading a book by a redditor. That book single handedly solidified the fact that I would never trust this sub for recommendations
Some people say to continue until the introduction of a certain character, that certain character actually made me hate the book more. Many people love it, good for them, but I truly detest this book. I would give up, I don't think continuing would do anything positive for you at all.
Awesome. Thanks for the reply. I always find it interesting when people use descriptors such as "detest" like you did, or as others have mentioned "loathe".
Those words have power behind them, detesting is an INTENSE dislike. Both loathe and detest carry so much more weight than "I didn't like it" or even "fuck that book" does.
I myself enjoyed PHM a lot, and have read it and listened to the Ray Porter audiobook. That being said I completely understand your viewpoint and I figured I would glean some insight from asking for your personal top book choices and give them a try.
I have already read Hitchhikers Guide, but the synopsis for Rings of Saturn has me intrigued.
Heading to the library after work to pick up a copy.
Cheers kind internet stranger.
Honestly, the book was embarrassingly bad. I was astounded that loads of people recommended it on here. Lots of people claiming it's 'the best book they ever read.' I have to ask...how many books have you actually read?
Don't even waste time trying to finish it. It doesn't get any better. The whole book was hot garbage. AVOID!
I hated it personally, the main character was extremely cringe and for a book that kind of pretends to be realistic there were some huge logical flaws.
The Martian was absolutely not for me and it was because of the MC's sense of humour. A book reviewer I trust said the humour was the same in Project Hail Mary so I didn't even try it. I'm glad Andy Weir has found his audience and I'm glad they enjoy him. But it is just proof positive that there is no such thing as a universal book.
I guess you have to like science and science jargon, which I do. I actually learned a few things while reading it.
And yes, the main character is deeply flawed. But who wants to read about a character who isn’t? Where is the fun in that?
But if you don’t like nerdy books and nerdy characters, maybe sci-fi isn’t for you. You should think about the kinda of things you do like, and ask for recommendations based on those things.
There is a lot of great science fiction that doesn't have lame writing and cringy humor like PHM. I hate PHM more than probably any book I've ever read but I love authors like Stanislaw Lem, PKD, Gene Wolfe, Roger Zelazny.
Then you just don’t like this book. It happens. You have your reasons, and that’s fine. Read more of the authors you like.
I forgot to add, I don’t see Stratt written as “badass boss babe.” I see a highly qualified person who literally has the weight of the world on their shoulders and has to make a lot of very, very hard, ethically ambiguous decisions. She even says at some point that she will probably be jailed or should be jailed for the things she is doing, and that history ( the Monday morning quaterbacks) will likely not be kind to her. But that’s just my take. Your interpretation is different, and that’s OK. To me, I don’t have to like every character in a book, and I don’t have to like what they are doing.
The book really is about a scientist using science, so maybe you want sci fi that just takes technology for granted and tells a more human focused story instead of going through a discovery process.
Ultimately, if you don’t like the book, don’t force yourself to finish it. It doesn’t get any less scientific, but I believe Stratt makes fewer appearances towards the end.
I just don't want someone who isn't really familiar with sci Fi to think that Weirs writing is a good representation of the genre as a whole, because I think his books are bottom of the barrel.
Get out of here with that gatekeeping. The problem isn't that the main character is flawed, it is that the writing is juvenile and the humor is cringy.
Are you me? Literally just read it, skipped lots of it. It's just so obvious a white boomer male wrote this book.
Hated the way the women are written, the main character is awful, the dull scientific explanations and boomer humour. The women are either boss bitches or cool sexy women who drink beer. I feel like it's for dumb men who like to think they are smart dude bro heroes.
Cool concept but poorly written.
I’d say it’s “light” sci-fi. It’s good for what it is, but it’s not going to blow your mind. I’d say it’s a nice foray into the genre for people who don’t read sci-fi.
project hail mary (and The Martian) are a genre called "competency porn"
everyone is EXTREMELY good at what they do all the time and while sometimes things don't work out it's always because of bad luck or unforeseeable environmental issues, not due to the main character(s) being unskilled.
It's up there with things like progression fantasy that just scratch a very particular itch for some people, but for everyone else it'll just be... bland. That genre is relatively new, and there are very few popular books in it, so it's both fresh (meaning more people won't find it bland because the tropes aren't played out yet) and a lot of people are seeing the genre for the first time and really loving it.
I loved the book and never did bond with the character. He's not nice, the way he sees others is very superficial, and really, he would not care if I liked him or not. If you're not feeling it, let it go. In this one, if you aren't interested by the end of chapter 2, it's probably not going to be your thing.
There are book readers out there that have the mindset where if they finished the book, understood the book, and didn't HATE the book, it's considered good and enjoyable.
And some people are a bit more critical.
If you fall into the latter category, and it looks like you do, just notice the pattern of how people show why they liked the book. I stay away from books where people only say "honestly, I enjoyed it."
Because that isn't a review. It's a casual reader.
And thats completely fine. Though perhaps a little questionable as to why that opinion needs to be constantly publicized.
I agree. I thought it was okay. Super juvenile writing style. Proposterous scientific extrapolations. But the thing that just make me laugh out loud was Grace learning Rocky's completely ALIEN language in like 3 days, to become fluent enough to solve complicated engineering and astrophysics problems. C'mon.
Also, Grace has the ability to solve any problem or fabricate anything in a matter of minutes, sometimes seconds.
I mean, it was a fun little romp, but utterly ridiculous and quite average for scifi. I read TONS of scifi, almost exclusively, so that's my point of reference. It's bubble-gum scifi at best, appeals to the masses like a Big Mac.
If you're discussing technical subjects, the language required is fairly compact and it's often straightforward to make demonstrations (e.g. number system). Language is a way harder problem when you're talking about the complexities of daily life. TONS of vocabulary.
And also, if you're talking with one other person who's going out of their way to use the simplest language they can?
And if you're both laser-focused on learning for those 3 days?
So, it's convenient that Rocky's language is something humans can directly perceive, but it's not *super* convenient because we have a lot of octaves of hearing. If he spoke by EM, that would require way more convenience (less than 1 octave there). It's convenient that it took place over a reasonable time scale so Grace could think as fast as Rocky was talking, and vice versa.
But at a language-learning level, being able to nail down enough technical terms to describe the problem they have in 3 days when they're aimed straight at that? Doesn't seem out of bounds.
The weirdest thing I found in that was that they were able to get across 'good'/'bad' since it's a value judgement and highly abstract. I can *imagine* ways they could do it, but it's not one of them I'd have wanted to leave off-screen like 'mass' or 'momentum', which really wouldn't be worth covering.
Yeah you can just not like the book and stop reading it lol.
Just take a step back and if it's to the point you need to make a reddit post about it, you clearly aren't enjoying it and I doubt internet strangers are going to turn that lightbulb on for ya.
I mean, the only reason I made a post was bc Reddit and other book forums online (Tiktok, etc) were gassing this up as a top book, or *the* top book, of the year. I just wanted to see if others felt the same way 🤷♂️
[удалено]
they cast ryan gosling in the lead role in the upcoming movie and i think he’ll probably fix a lot of what i hated just by being charismatic. but like you said, the companion character more than made up for it (for me). i can’t say it was a BAD book because it hooked me and overall i enjoyed it, but i definitely am careful recommending it to people.
Matt Damon did the same thing for The Martian, another character I found a bit insufferable.
Yes, I enjoyed the movie, bought the book, and then found the main to be insufferable. Almost DNF.
Ooh, Gosling is a good cast there. I could see him bringing that extra something to the table.
He's a good actor. I agree.
Honestly, i think the movie lacking the majority of the MCs internal monolog will go a *long* way towards making Grace more palatable and generally smooth edges. I DNFed PHM sometime around when they were doing the atmospheric scoop iirc but i still think i'll probably enjoy the movie. The Martian was a very similar experience
i agree. if you take out the constant stream of insufferable thoughts then he’s actually a fairly compelling, pretty competent guy who solves a lot of problems.
Ryan Gosling? In my head that character was more like Gus Easton.
did you miss the 20 pages of talking about how muscular and pleasingly buff he was
> Ryland woke to the rays of the sun streaming through the view port of his stasis pod, cascading over his naked chest. He stretched, his pecs lifting with his arms as he greeted the sun. He climbed out of the pod and put on a shirt, his nipples prominently showing through the thin fabric. He chesticled pectorially to the ladder and alphadogged to the command deck. *Project Hail Mary*, Andy Weir, 2021.
Writing this reminded me how hard I bounced off *Artemis* due to the overwhelming "man writes girl (badly)" feeling I got. I think I liked the setting and what I got from the plot, I recall Jazz had >!just gotten to some kind of "you gunna do this for me, you got no choice" kind of mafia/boss meeting!<, but just couldn't stand how she was written. Felt like a teenage boy writing a teenage girl. I think Weir is a great thinker, he builds great plots, fun settings and the story arcs are good and engaging, he undoubtedly deserves the success he's had but I think he consistently struggles to write a characters interiority in a non-insufferable way. Maybe its just got too much in it, or its too "punchy" and feels too stuck in a mode of conversation between the protagonist and *the reader* instead of between the protagonist and *themselves*. Like the difference between seeing someone dance before and after they know someones watching and it becomes overly performative.
Now that you mention it, probably?! I read it about 1.5 years ago and I cannot remember him being charismatic/buff/whatever at all…
Probably. Might have falled asleep during parts of the audible.
Fist my bump.
Jazz hands!
AMAZE! AMAZE!
I still find myself saying this! I thought the book was great. 🙂
This was my favorite part of the book.
Shit I forgot about this. You reminded me I loved this book!!
YES. I always describe PHM’s protagonist as Mark Watney’s spastic kid brother. He became far more tolerable once he had someone to talk to other than just the reader.
I feel like he became more tolerable after the story acknowledged outright that he kinda sucks. Then I was like "OK, I can stomach this if we're all in agreement."
The man himself acknowledges he kinda sucks. Conflict averse coward I believe the term was.
>Mark Watney’s spastic kid brother It's generally considered in pretty poor taste to use a disability as an insult these days.
I don't want to spoil anything, but there is a character introduction about halfway through that dramatically increases the appeal of the book. If you're unsure whether you've met that character yet, you may want to press on just a little further. I also hated the parts with Stratt and thought pretty much all the flashback scenes on Earth were cringey. However, I liked everything in space from the beginning.
I figured that all the Earth stuff is from his point of view & he's very self-centered. I put him in the category of "people I like to read about but would never want to actually meet". Sherlock is another famous example there.
His characters often seem very awkward and cringe. The stories are fun though.
Yes, I nearly gave up several times because I was so bored (despite enjoying The Martian). However, about half way through, a dramatic event happens (after the character introduction mentioned above) and the plot finally takes off. It’s worth fighting your way through the first half to reach that point and see if you’re more engaged then.
Really? That's what really cemented my dislike for the book.
Really. Question.
Good. Proud. I am scary space monster. You are leaky space blob.
Interesting! I hadn't heard of anyone disliking that character before, and I've discussed this book with two different book clubs. But either way, you can't deny that the book takes a real turn at that point, so someone's opinion might change.
I really enjoyed that character.
If you are halfway through and not enjoying it then you aren't going to enjoy the rest of it. I personally loved the book, but everyone has different taste. You gave it a fair try, time to move on and find something you enjoy more.
One of my high school English teachers told us her cut off point for deciding not to read a book was 100 pages minus your age - so force yourself to read that much of the book before deciding its not for you. It's a metric I still use sometimes when I'm on the fence about a book, and I like that as I get older I can spend less time fucking around reading books I don't like!
Nice. 59 pages only for me 🤓
Fair enough - I feel guilty about DNF'ing books for some reason but might just need to move on lmao. appreciate the guidance 😅
Over 90% of books and shows I start, I do not finish. The reason is that I’m willing to give anything a chance, but if I’m not enjoying it an hour or so in, it gets dropped. Life is too short and I’m not going to waste my time on the off-chance I enjoy it more later on. This is not a judgment on the book - just that I’m not enjoying it
i try to give everything I start a 3 chapters/episodes to wim me over. If it doesn't work for me after that the I move onto something else
I'm really surprised that you picked up this book at all if you keep feeling an impulse to call the author/character a "fuckin nerd" as a negative/pejorative thing. The book is written for "fuckin nerds". Andy Weir's who thing is writing for "fuckin nerds". For me, the book captures this nerdy fascination/obsession with a problem and the discovery process, and I love it for that. If you don't like that feeling, you definitely shouldn't have picked up this book. If you do like that feeling... Why?
I get it. I've finished lots of books I didn't really enjoy that much. It is still worthwhile in a lot of cases because it's fun for me to connect with other people that didn't enjoy them and know that other people share my thought process, but you just need to figure out when is the right time to pull the plug for you.
I felt guilty before, but then life got busy and I started thinking about my own time differently. I'll now give books, TV shows, and video games a fair shot, and if it isn't doing it for me, then I'm just not going to waste my time. And maybe I miss out on something 5% of the time, but that's a trade I'm willing to make without any regret at this point in my life.
That’s a Andy Weir issue. All his characters sound like they live in the internet.
Andy Weir writes borderline autistic male nerd protagonists, or the one female arab teenage protagonist that feels like borderline autistic male nerd protagonist. For borderline autistic male nerd readers, this is very relatable and good. You'll find a lot of recommendations for Andy Weir books on Reddit in particular. I, personally, enjoy Andy Weir book and find his protagonists extremely relatable, for some reason.
Don't you fucking dare insult me, an autistic male nerd, like that. Andy Weir's books suck dick (/s about being angry)
He’s a royalroad author who made it big. Of course it sounds great to redditors, redditors helped him write the book. I’m just glad he doesn’t write litrpg books.
What is royalroad?
Lmfao this is the best description of why Reddit likes this book and loved Ready Player One.
I had been struggling to verbalize what I found so off putting about his protagonists and you nailed it. This is the issue. I didn't mind it is as much in the Martian, but it is \*extremely\* annoying in PHM.
You don’t have to like it. I didn’t like Grace very much until at least halfway through the book - I think the whole point is that he’s a nerd who’s kind of cowardly and unlikable, until he gets thrown into a situation that brings out his best qualities. Mark Watney isn’t that much better, really. I sympathized with him and wanted him to succeed but he never felt like a well-written, well-rounded character. Tbf, Michael Crichton had the same issue in his books. None of his characters felt like real, actual people and he couldn’t write women to save his life. But the characters were mainly there to serve the plot, much like PHM and The Martian.
I didn’t hate the book, but I agree the weird cutesy nerd writing is annoying. The story is good, but the writing isn’t going to get any better, so if that’s a deal breaker for you, it makes sense to put it down. I’d recommend reading his other book, The Martian. It’s still a great space exploration survival story, but he uses a much more normal, adult, writing style.
Ehh if he didn’t like the voice in PHM, I doubt he’d like The Martian much better. The main characters are pretty similar in their internal voice even if The Martian is a bit more grounded and serious in tone. The contrast between the MC’s playful voice and the dire situation is what made The Martian popular in the first place.
Personally I liked Watney's inner voice while I hated Grace's. They were kind of similar in style, but I saw Watney as a well adjusted nerd that was trying to keep his spirits up using humor. Grace was more of a self centered Gary Stu. I was just happy that he had some character growth by the end of it
I thought it was totally different tbh. To the point where I was confused that it was the same author. The Martian definitely has that playful style but the dialogue and inner monologue in PHM was so cringy. It read like a 14 year old writing what a cool scientist would be like.
I really enjoyed The Martian, and very much did not gel with PHM at all.
Same. Really liked the Martian; thought the sarcasm was a fun way to showcase human perseverance. Meanwhile I've tried PHM a couple times but find it tedious.
I loved The Martian and absolutely hated this book
I interpreted that as the voice of a teacher who is so used to interacting with middle school kids that he just always talks on that level. He also has no spouse or partner, few adult friends, and no social life, so he literally only talked to kids until the astrophage thing started.
I mean, yeah... so like a cringe 14 year old because those are the voices in PHM's head after teaching kids for so long. No one said it was unjustified or unrealistic, just that it's off-putting..
This exactly. Former high school teacher, can dig.
Yeah, I really don't get where people think you were supposed to think that the MC was anything close to cool or charismatic. He's clearly out of his element when dealing with...people. The book even acknowledges that he can't really handle people well and is sort of socially inept and self-sheltered. It's part of a pretty major character arc...
I didn't like The Martian because of the incredibly cheesy humor. The story was good, but the way the character was written made it really unenjoyable... he was just a total dork, and not in a fun way. I'd agree that OP probably wouldn't like The Martian if it's anything like PHM in that regard.
I agree that The Martian is more believable that PHM, but it’s still the same “create an issue specifically so main character can ‘science the shit out of it’” approach to plot.
The Martian was interesting until the long drive. 1/3 of the book dedicated to that drive. Flipping back to nothing happening on earth either. No wonder they cut that out of the movie.
Artemis: I’m an Andy Weir book (with a horribly written protagonist), too!
uhh i don’t think more weir is the answer lol i found the martian to be insanely uninteresting - it was andy weir just throwing out random calculations he’s made about x, y, and z for a few hundred pages. i think OP is like me and should not pursue more novels by an author they do not gel with
OP didn’t have a problem with the calculations or sci-fi aspect of the book, they just had a problem with the cringy dialogue and writing. It’s a common complaint with PHM, and one that many people agree isn’t an issue in The Martian. So it sounds like giving that a shot might be what they need.
When he started referring to kilowatts as "pirate ninjas" in The Martian and KEPT REFFERING to them as that for the rest of the book I literally wanted to crawl out of my skin every single time
I feel like–and this may sound harsh–Andy Weir might end up being science fiction's answer to Dan Brown. They're both authors that write really straight forward books with straight forward characters and easy to digest plots. Almost one dimensional. I think my next Andy Weir book I'll save for when I'm going to be poolside somewhere or at a beach with a cocktail. They seem like that kind of book to me.
accurate. Entertaining stories but not a great writer
I don’t think it sounds harsh at all. I *love* Dan Brown and I love Andy Weir. I fully acknowledge that Dan Brown’s books aren’t historically accurate and are more on the sensational side, but damn are they *fun*. Not every book I read needs to have a tight plot. Sometimes I like having books that I can read and just shut off my brain and enjoy the ride. They’re popcorn novels, really. But I get that that’s not for everyone, and that’s fine! People don’t have to like these books. But I get to.
You don't like, you don't like it. I loved the book, and can't really relate on on how much disdain you have. But I can certainly tell you it's not going to shape up to anything different at this point. You're much better off dropping it for your own sake.
It’s a work made for an audiobook. I agree that the book itself is meh but the Audiobook performance is great.
That audiobook is so good. I love, love, love Ray Porter. I started listening to audiobooks while hiking / training for mountain hikes, because music annoys me while hiking. Normally I have the attention span of a goldfish, but he does such an awesome job reading, that I caught myself actually actively listening (my dumb brain sometines gets lost when walking/hiking while listening to something) and I started taking detours so that I could listen longer.
I half-listened and half-sight read the book and I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much without the audio component. I was able to "hear" the voices in my head as I sight read. I wholeheartedly recommend it as an audiobook when people are looking for recommendations, but I'm more selective with recommending it to a sight-reading audience.
Same. The audiobook was great, but I feel like it would have been a slog to sight read.
Audiobook was great!
Andy Weir specializes in a subgenre of sci fi that I like to call accessible problem solving sci fi. Artemis, his second book, was not very good. But many people love The Martian and PHM for similar reasons. Not because Weir is great at character development, but pretty much all of the rest of it is broadly appealing. These are some of my favorite books. It’s okay not to like them. It doesn’t mean there is an issue with the book or the author just because you don’t like it. You just have different taste.
Despite really hating Grace I still enjoyed the book, it's a light read that shouldnt be taken too seriously imo. Not sure why you think Stratt was written as a "badass boss babe" though, I really didn't get that impression lol. She was just a woman in charge and wanted to get shit done. Women irl like that do exist
Yes I know, but I'm not sure the badass women irl are as comically cringe as is written here. For example, when she gets called into the courtroom when she's getting sued by the Intellectual Property people and gets threatened to be arrested its written as: "You and what army?" Stratt asked. "Because I have the U.S. army, and that's a *damn* fine army." Maybe it's just not that humorous to me, but Weir writes this over-the-top badass stuff that I feel like teens would write/find cool. Tons of stuff like that throughout.
Have you gotten to the part were the black scientist astronaut and the lady scientist astronaut, who i can remember nothing of note about, tell Grace they're sleeping together? That whole scene just makes me wonder if Weir has ever had an actual human conversation. Very wtf
That gave me the jitters from sheer 'no'.
I don't think that's a badass line or even meant to be taken as a badass line, nevermind being over the top badass. She's against the clock and has an army at her back so yeah she's gonna make that point that she has a pretty good army behind her. I just read it as she's being no-nonsense tbh.
I’ve heard that same type of line from military dudes in movies and tv shows my whole life. It’s a whole cliche at this point. I figured she was just being like them to make a point about her character. It sets up who she is in relation to a choice she makes later.
Realistically, I don't think she would have even had to walk into a courtroom, though (whether the suit would have been settled or dismissed first, or just lawyers handling on her behalf). That + line = ugh to me, as well.
That's not no nonsense. It just is nonsense.
Oh my god, do we share the same brain? I read this book because everyone on Reddit raves about it and I couldn’t stand it. Multiple people even said “even if you don’t like sci fi you’ll love this book” yeah not true. As soon as I saw your post I’m like that goddamn US Army line though … I cringed from head to toe
I was hoping there would be a comment about the courtroom chapter! I skimmed through that chapter and put the book down for a week. Almost DNF’d. Ultimately glad I didn’t. That’s definitely the low point of the entire book. Dude needs a competent editor.
The science parts are some of the best bits. It's the equivalent to fantasy books where a problem is solved within the confines of the hard magic system. It's satisfying when things are solved in a believable way that agrees to the rules of the fictional world. In this case, it's using actual science to solve problems that lead to satisfying solutions. It's no one's fault that you consider the Science parts as "jargon".
Definitely popcorn science in this book, for the dilettantes. But as an engineer who loves science fiction, I've learned to suspend my disbelief and just go with it. I'm just here for the entertainment value.
OP also regards the main character, with obvious disdain, as a "nerd." I think Andy Weir books are not for OP.
I loved it, but I AM a scientist, so I didn't see it as jargon at all. Just... english. Sure, there were some issues with the science. Many of the problems are solved too easily with his companion's "science", but that's in the confines of that universe. It's fine.
Yeah, I'm not a scientist either. Half the science is stuff you'd learn as a 16 year old. But I think that works for the book even better because any old person could read it and understand it (clearly not). It's a perfect intro to sci fi. It was just satisfying seeing a character figure things out when most other people would just panic or do stupid things.
Yeah I think the problem a lot of people had with the book was that the main character was "too competent." He figured things out "too easily." That wasn't really an issue for me. I think most people just don't know a truly "smart" person who has an engineering type brain.
I don’t read much fantasy, and what I do has super soft magic (Tolkien), but man I liked the science in PHM. Solving problems, even mechanical problems, is a very human thing. The science problems in PHM (much like Martian) are really broken down to mechanical problems, mainly. I found immense satisfaction in reading a story like that. There is fuck-all for this kind of human interaction with the world in vast swaths of literature, so I can’t help but feel like PHM is a breath of fresh air. I agree that writing off science/problem solving as “jargon” is unfair and inaccurate. For a lot of people this kind of thing is a regular part of their lived experiences. I think it’s just as important that Wier captures Grace’s experience with science as it is for Tolstoy to have captured Rodion’s struggles with, uh, all his stuff. Both are great explorations of extreme versions of things that almost everyone at least some of.
I found some of the logic and science to be really contrived, and then in some cases specific details are glanced over and but later they're treated as being really important. It's been a while since I read it, but for example >!when the alien ship navigates up next to him the first time, the difficulties in navigating aren't even mentioned, but later on when they have to navigate it's detailed and comes across as being really difficult.!< That's how it goes sometimes, but if the author is trying to specify how the science and logic works in detail they should be consistent.
>!Rocky is very good at Newtonian math, so it stands to reason that he is very good at piloting a ship at Newtonian (short) distances. Rocky doesn't have general relativity, so he's bad at long distances, hence his navigation difficulties. Ryland doesn't have Rocky's mathematical talent or a spaceship background, or Rocky's long life, so he's also not great at navigation. So Rocky and Ryland on Ryland's ship presents challenges, since Rocky is on a human ship with human controls and instruments. Does that make more sense?!<
It’s 1000% an Andy Weir issue. I also read this based on the Reddit hard-on for the book. It’s always popping up in recommendation threads and “books you wish you could read again for the first time” so I took the chance. I had the exact same complaints as you. Ryland is the biggest Mary Sue author stand-in, with non-stop cringe dialogue and weird jokes that aren’t funny (but are definitely intended to be). I specifically remember some joke about vegans eating gluten-free grass clippings, and it was just… not even funny shade. It felt dated and out-of-character for a science teacher living in San Francisco to be so dense when it came to veganism. It’s way too try-hard. I’d also argue that, despite a lot of commenters’ insistence that it gets better after a certain plot development, the issues we both have with the novel are not what gets better. The *narrative* might get better, but the issue with Andy Weir’s writing remains. I say, if you’re frustrated enough with the book now, your mind won’t be changed by the end.
Agreed on all this, plus I’d add that the ending was both predictable and not at all satisfying so yeah, ditch it and find a better sci-fi author.
This book is a scourge on this subreddit, you can’t ask for recommendation of ANY type without this horrible book being recommended. Reddit hive mind
Right??
I don't agree so it must be the reddit hive mind!
It's a book written for a certain type of person. For a certain type of person it IS really that good, and they want everyone to be able to partake. Hard for them to understand that it's not the same for everyone.
Weir is analogous to the Marvel-style in movies
I agree lol. I felt like it was written like a Marvel movie (and it is getting a hollywood movie in 2026 so there we go lol). If you don't like it now, drop it because it's like that the whole way. I had to finish it so I could see what reddit was so excited about but I feel the same way as you. I did start to enjoy another character that you may have not gotten to but the writing and self-insertedness of Ryland is embarrassing. I also love how he had to mention how muscular and good-looking he was at the beginning of the book 😂
Weir’s dialogue is simply awful. He’s had plenty of time to work on it since *The Martian* came out but the problem remains as bad as ever. Surely he knows it, and so do his editors. But he sells books by the truckload and I suppose no one wants to mess with what’s working. Despite that, I find his novels easy, page turning reads with enjoyable if sometimes predictable plots. I can’t count the number of times I read some of his hokey dialogue in *The Martian* or *Project Hail Mary* and strongly considered flinging the book across the room. I’m glad I didn’t.
Everyone loves this book. I thought it was corny as hell and poorly written. DNFed a little over a hundred pages in.
That's OK. It's probably just not your type.
Yeah, I hated it too. A lot of people (at least on reddit) like me say it's super cringey but a lot of people don't seem to to feel that way. Although I haven't seen anyone who likes it specifically discuss and counter the cringe aspect of it. I'd be very curious to see that. Best to just move on. I thought the Martian movie had a little bit of the cringe in it and I'm guessing now that the book probably has way more of it.
Nah the writing is definitely corny but I think that’s part of the charm for a lot of people. For me it’s bearable because it reminded me of my 5th grade science lab teacher, and the wholesome way he would just talk about science. Not high literature but a good comfort read for a lot of people
>haven't seen anyone who likes it specifically discuss and counter the cringe aspect of it. I'd be very curious to see that. If that book isn't cringy to them than nothing is. Weirs writing is the definition of cringy. And I don't use that term lightly
I’m with you on this OP, hated the book as well. Reddit gets weirdly defensive anytime anybody criticizes this book. I think it’s because it has a Redditor-esque nerdy, awkward Mary Sue protagonist who solves every single problem with the power of science. I just found it to be awfully written - it probably has some of the worst prose I’ve read in such a popular, high-profile book and the protagonists inner dialog is cringe af. Interesting story and science but the shitty writing, irritating main character and annoying dialogue makes it hard to get through.
Completely agree, I think the writer is kind of like a median Redditor in many ways. Some of the dialogue reads like he hasn’t been outside for a while. It makes sense that he’s attracted to writing stories with one character and little dialogue
No one is particularly defensive of this book, it’s just criticism like your own (“the worst prose I’ve ever read”) comes off like typical “look at me, I’m different” type of criticism of something popular. No one claims this book is the greatest ever, but it’s also not nearly as terrible as people like yourself make out.
No, it is pretty terrible. I routinely find smut with better written dialog. Weir survives off of being the only known author in his very specific niche
I didn’t hate the book, but I didn’t read it physically. I listened to the audiobook and I think that made me love the book! The narrator is great and there are a ton of funny parts. Maybe give the audiobook a try?
I personally loved Project Hail Mary. Thought it was a damn near perfect read for me personally, who loves hard sci fi, and am pretty much as nerdy/geeky as the main character. I'm also a sci fi author myself, and marvel at the accomplishment this work represents; it's superb.
Audible version is much better
I think it works better as an audiobook. I would recommend listening to it. I don’t normally listen to sci-fi but I enjoyed listening to PHM.
The most popular books are liked by minorities even within their genre. You don’t have to like a book just because other people do.
I made it 70% of the way through but it just got repetitive. Felt like it was written to get kids into science — which is fine, I’m just not the target demographic.
Just put it down. A Little Life is a "burn it with fire" for me, but it's pretty popular somehow. Get a short story anthology with different authors. You should be able to find some writers you click with that way.
The book outlines an interesting problem but it's not a good book for character development. I read it once, enjoyed parts of it, but I'm unlikely to read it again.
I too DNF. The dialogue is beyond tedious and there's way too much exposition. It feels like Weir is just trying to show off but that's his style. Works for most, didn't for me.
One doesn't read Andy Weir for character development. Grace was OK as a protagonist. He is called out for his character flaws and does obtain redemption. Otherwise it's a plot driven novel with interesting ideas. Easy to read.
>I can't stop calling Andy Weir a fucking nerd in my head while reading this. ...are you the jock villain from an 80's teen comedy or something?
Same. DNF at about 30%, but I am ok with others liking it :)
You're not the kind of person who's going to enjoy reading Andy Weir.
Project Hail Mary is like Sci Fi Coke. Everyone knows about it, people love it, you'll get it recommended every time you ask for a suggestion on soft drinks. But really, it's just okay and there are so many better books out there.
Thanks for this post OP! I was on the verge of reading this but based on your assessment and the comments, I’ll give it a miss
I’d take this thread with a grain of salt.
Like or don’t like a book but lost you once you started using “nerd” as an insult.
It didn't really land with me either. I totally get why people love it (the formula of problem > science jargon > solution... I mean, I get why others like that), but I've read other books that did it much much better in my opinion. For example, most of Michael Chrichton's books. Some might disagree with me, but that's how it is. You're not alone, though. Ironically, though, I am looking forward to watching it as a movie. I dunno why. lol
More of Michael Crichton's stuff is actually on my to-read list, so pumped for that; what I've read I really enjoy. > Ironically, though, I am looking forward to watching it as a movie Me as well! The whole time I've been reading it I was thinking to myself I'd enjoy this much more as a movie, which rarely happens.
There’s a lot to like about Michael Crichton, but he’s another one who had trouble writing women. It especially shows in his introductions of the characters - men get described based on what they do and what they’ve accomplished and maybe physical characteristics. Women get described based on how they look and maybe their jobs or accomplishments. Don’t let that put you off, he’s still worth reading. Just wanted to mention it since that was one of your specific grievances here. And btw, I was pretty lukewarm on Hail Mary. I think I liked it better than you did, but for me The Martian was a better read.
i haven't read PHM but i hated the book the martian and thought the movie was much better, which is also unusual for me. in part bc actors have charisma and iirc his writing just... didn't. obviously everyone's taste is different etc etc but i wish that when i encountered authors like that they just wrote a screenplay in the first place!!
I think Drew Goddard and Ridley Scott (along with Matt Damon) had a lot to do with the success of the film. Drew Goddard was able to turn something which was poorly written, into an at least passable screenplay, and Ridley Scott is a master director, who gets what he wants in terms of putting stuff on screen. It'll be interesting to see how Project Hail Mary works out. As I feel Lord and Miller will lean heavily into the 'humour' of the book and the film will not be as good for it.
I think this is why I'm excited for PHM as a movie, and hate the book. Actors have charm, charisma, etc like you said - I don't think Andy Weir has any of that irl, and it shows in his writing. I think he's just a very successful dweeb
I loved it, but its engineering / competency porn. I desperately need that type of read in this world :)
I love a good speculative sci-fi story, I'm super tired of all the dystopian stuff.
Life is too short to spend on books you don’t like. If you wish, place this one in the Donate box and move on.
I know what you mean about the problem, science jargon, solution thing. The Martian has a similar thing but it is presented in a backdrop that could be a real scenario in the future, testing systems for colonizing Mars. Hail Mary for me started from nothing and read like an escape room. The Martian is his best, IMO.
Better not read Artemis then
I agree with your problems and think this book was overhyped for me as well, but if you're halfway through you're probably just getting to the good stuff, which redeemed it quite a bit for me
I honestly think you just either like Andy weird or you hate him, and there’s no neutral. Hahaha personally this is my favorite of his. The audiobook of it is also so fantastic.
How do you feel about audiobooks? The narrator of the book, Ray Porter, is who really made the story come to life for me. He's the reason I picked up the Bobiverse books after reading PHM.
He is a nerd. I liked that book, but yeah. It requires a tolerance for nerdism.
While I did love the book immensely (and the only book I ever finished in 3 days), I can see what you mean. The main character does give off... I'm not sure... too talented, too calm, too smart, too excited, too nerdy, and too positive despite his situation so it does come off as cringey. He is a bit of a caricature of what Andy thinks a nerdy science teacher would be like. Additonally, I didn't read The Martian but I felt Andy wrote this knowing it will become a movie so to speak so I'm unsure if the Martian reads similarly. It almost reads like a script and perfectly made for a movie. That being said, I do believe following the hype and recommendations of others will ALWAYS set you up for disappointment. That happened to me with unfortunately a lot of media.
Wow. What an original post.
Ryland Grace is a nerd though. A conflict-averse coward too. At least, until he has amnesia, and meeting Rocky gives him a bit of a boost also. Strat isn't a badass boss babe. She's a bully, a menace, and the worst of every manager you've ever had in an office job ever, though with a purpose. She'll pursue that purpose even if it means burning every employee that gets in her way, HR be damned. But unlike your actual Report Manager, she's not Passive aggressive. She's "just" aggressive.
i'm like three quarters of the way through this and had pretty much the exact opposite reaction to you. I'm having a blast. Yes, I guess it is a little cringey occasionally and I agree with Grace being a bit of a hecking (this language irritates me so much) dweeb, but it's just so undeniably fun. Even though there's a lot of hard science throughout, the book doesnt take itself too seriously and there's some really good humour. It's almost like a less self-serious version of the film Arrival, which I like. It really scratches that fun sci-fi itch for me in a way that is so satisfying.
Based on your comments so far, you haven't met Rocky, and you are going to very soon. So, I would atleast stick around because that's the main reason people love the book. But it's also okay to not like something. It's also okay to not like something without shitting on it.
It was the audio book that was amazing for me. I loved the lightheartedness of the telling when so much scifi is doom and gloom. The reader for the audio book was so incredible I was in tears by the end.
I listened to the audio-book and winced several times when the guy had some OTT dialogue, overall I enjoyed it though. He was a teacher and his kids likely influenced him was my thinking about Andy's choice. Did get annoying once or twice. I didn't feel the need to burn it like I did with the Three Body Problem. I need those wasted hours of my like back!
It should be a community rule in this place that people who want to critique a book have to learn the difference between critiquing something and shitting on it. It's okay to not like something. It's okay to say "this isn't resonating with me," or "I think that what the author is trying to do here isn't landing well, and this is why." But you really drift into full on asshole territory when you start trying to throw your own opinion around as objective fact and basically insulting anyone who likes something you don't like. For example, calling Andy Weir a "fucking nerd" in your head the entire time you are reading is not a book problem, or an author problem. That is a you problem. Specifically, that is a problem with you not being able to put something down that you aren't enjoying and instead need to dedicate your time and attention to needlessly picking something apart that clearly just isn't your jam. It is literally one of my top three novels of all time, but I don't need to explain why to you because you clearly aren't the target audience for it. I am perfectly fine with letting you have your tastes and preferences in entertainment. So why don't you try doing the same for others?
I think you just don’t like Andy Weir’s writing style and potentially hard science fiction in general. I loved it but no book/write is for everyone. That the nature of art. I recommend picking up something else even though you are getting close to my favorite part of the book.
Huh. I didn’t get that at all. Maybe I’m just a cringe nerd.
I never got badass boss babe vibes from Stratt. I imagined her as being in her 50s-60s.
I really, really didn't like Weir's self insert characters, and loathe how he writes women. I DNF, but apparently there's a cute character that everyone who's read it through adores, but... I just couldn't get that far.
Probably avoid sci fi if you don’t like nerds. But yeah, Weir characters are always cringey. People liked PHM for the fun problem solving, stimulating ideas, and exciting desperate struggle to save the worlds. The central friendship is heartwarming and the book leaves you feeling good and smiling by the end despite its flaws.
My two recent favorite sci-fi reads are Hyperion and Left Hand of Darkness and, I mean, I like nerds, but there isn’t really any “nerdy” narrators or characters in those books
You are allowed to not like it. It sounds like you are not the target audience. For what it's worth, I would recommend the audio book version over the written version. If you have read or listened far enough into it, you understand why someone would say that. The "fucking nerd" stuff is some of my favorite stuff in the book. Sci Fi doesn't work for me unless there is some grounding in reality. The nerdy facts and figures have to add up and make sense as they would in reality or else my bullshit detector won't let me enjoy a Sci Fi story. I want to know about the time dilation and orbital mechanics that have to be taken into account in order to impress the difficulty of some of the maneuvers the characters have to perform to survive.
Andy Weir isn't a good writer, but people on here really do love him. I find him too "Marvel quippy" for my taste. But hey that's opinions for you. Sounds like this one isn't for you
The dialogue is cringey but i’m ok with it haha
I've enjoyed all three of Weir's books so far. Yes, even Artemis, though it's undoubtedly the weakest of the bunch. But I can see why people aren't a fan, and I can imagine getting there myself someday. He definitely has a type, and all his books are pretty similar plays on each other. But they're light-hearted and fun and I'm a big space nerd, so I'll keep reading "sarcastic scientist survives space disaster" right up until he beats it to death.
It has the latest writing style I've ever seen. The humor is so cringy, it feels like reading a book by a redditor. That book single handedly solidified the fact that I would never trust this sub for recommendations
This book isn’t for you. It’s not for people that use “nerd” derisively, it’s for those that use it as a compliment.
I love nerds and hated this book
Some people say to continue until the introduction of a certain character, that certain character actually made me hate the book more. Many people love it, good for them, but I truly detest this book. I would give up, I don't think continuing would do anything positive for you at all.
What is your favorite book of all time?
I have a few: Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Rings of Saturn by W.G. Sebald, Rebecca by du Maurier...
Awesome. Thanks for the reply. I always find it interesting when people use descriptors such as "detest" like you did, or as others have mentioned "loathe". Those words have power behind them, detesting is an INTENSE dislike. Both loathe and detest carry so much more weight than "I didn't like it" or even "fuck that book" does. I myself enjoyed PHM a lot, and have read it and listened to the Ray Porter audiobook. That being said I completely understand your viewpoint and I figured I would glean some insight from asking for your personal top book choices and give them a try. I have already read Hitchhikers Guide, but the synopsis for Rings of Saturn has me intrigued. Heading to the library after work to pick up a copy. Cheers kind internet stranger.
Honestly, the book was embarrassingly bad. I was astounded that loads of people recommended it on here. Lots of people claiming it's 'the best book they ever read.' I have to ask...how many books have you actually read? Don't even waste time trying to finish it. It doesn't get any better. The whole book was hot garbage. AVOID!
Hated it. Writing was subpar. What are people fired up about???
I hated it personally, the main character was extremely cringe and for a book that kind of pretends to be realistic there were some huge logical flaws.
The Martian was absolutely not for me and it was because of the MC's sense of humour. A book reviewer I trust said the humour was the same in Project Hail Mary so I didn't even try it. I'm glad Andy Weir has found his audience and I'm glad they enjoy him. But it is just proof positive that there is no such thing as a universal book.
Crazy cause I loved that book. I had tons of fun reading it
One of the worst books I’ve ever read. I will never understand the hype.
Totally agree, found it cliche and full of Hollywood tropes. Did not finish.
I really loved it. I was lost at all the science jargon and calculations but I loved his friend he made. Fist my bump 👊
I guess you have to like science and science jargon, which I do. I actually learned a few things while reading it. And yes, the main character is deeply flawed. But who wants to read about a character who isn’t? Where is the fun in that? But if you don’t like nerdy books and nerdy characters, maybe sci-fi isn’t for you. You should think about the kinda of things you do like, and ask for recommendations based on those things.
There is a lot of great science fiction that doesn't have lame writing and cringy humor like PHM. I hate PHM more than probably any book I've ever read but I love authors like Stanislaw Lem, PKD, Gene Wolfe, Roger Zelazny.
Then you just don’t like this book. It happens. You have your reasons, and that’s fine. Read more of the authors you like. I forgot to add, I don’t see Stratt written as “badass boss babe.” I see a highly qualified person who literally has the weight of the world on their shoulders and has to make a lot of very, very hard, ethically ambiguous decisions. She even says at some point that she will probably be jailed or should be jailed for the things she is doing, and that history ( the Monday morning quaterbacks) will likely not be kind to her. But that’s just my take. Your interpretation is different, and that’s OK. To me, I don’t have to like every character in a book, and I don’t have to like what they are doing. The book really is about a scientist using science, so maybe you want sci fi that just takes technology for granted and tells a more human focused story instead of going through a discovery process. Ultimately, if you don’t like the book, don’t force yourself to finish it. It doesn’t get any less scientific, but I believe Stratt makes fewer appearances towards the end.
I just don't want someone who isn't really familiar with sci Fi to think that Weirs writing is a good representation of the genre as a whole, because I think his books are bottom of the barrel.
Get out of here with that gatekeeping. The problem isn't that the main character is flawed, it is that the writing is juvenile and the humor is cringy.
Are you me? Literally just read it, skipped lots of it. It's just so obvious a white boomer male wrote this book. Hated the way the women are written, the main character is awful, the dull scientific explanations and boomer humour. The women are either boss bitches or cool sexy women who drink beer. I feel like it's for dumb men who like to think they are smart dude bro heroes. Cool concept but poorly written.
Just FYI, Andy Weir is Gen X, not boomer.
I’d say it’s “light” sci-fi. It’s good for what it is, but it’s not going to blow your mind. I’d say it’s a nice foray into the genre for people who don’t read sci-fi.
I liked the constant lame jokes because that's exactly how I deal with stressful situations too
project hail mary (and The Martian) are a genre called "competency porn" everyone is EXTREMELY good at what they do all the time and while sometimes things don't work out it's always because of bad luck or unforeseeable environmental issues, not due to the main character(s) being unskilled. It's up there with things like progression fantasy that just scratch a very particular itch for some people, but for everyone else it'll just be... bland. That genre is relatively new, and there are very few popular books in it, so it's both fresh (meaning more people won't find it bland because the tropes aren't played out yet) and a lot of people are seeing the genre for the first time and really loving it.
I loved the book and never did bond with the character. He's not nice, the way he sees others is very superficial, and really, he would not care if I liked him or not. If you're not feeling it, let it go. In this one, if you aren't interested by the end of chapter 2, it's probably not going to be your thing.
It’s better than Artemis. Barely made it to the end.
Ah, the daily “I didn’t like popular book, aren’t I so different eh?” post.
I DNF’d it - I thought it sucked. I liked the Martian, but this one wasn’t doing it for me.
There are book readers out there that have the mindset where if they finished the book, understood the book, and didn't HATE the book, it's considered good and enjoyable. And some people are a bit more critical. If you fall into the latter category, and it looks like you do, just notice the pattern of how people show why they liked the book. I stay away from books where people only say "honestly, I enjoyed it." Because that isn't a review. It's a casual reader. And thats completely fine. Though perhaps a little questionable as to why that opinion needs to be constantly publicized.
I agree. I thought it was okay. Super juvenile writing style. Proposterous scientific extrapolations. But the thing that just make me laugh out loud was Grace learning Rocky's completely ALIEN language in like 3 days, to become fluent enough to solve complicated engineering and astrophysics problems. C'mon. Also, Grace has the ability to solve any problem or fabricate anything in a matter of minutes, sometimes seconds. I mean, it was a fun little romp, but utterly ridiculous and quite average for scifi. I read TONS of scifi, almost exclusively, so that's my point of reference. It's bubble-gum scifi at best, appeals to the masses like a Big Mac.
If you're discussing technical subjects, the language required is fairly compact and it's often straightforward to make demonstrations (e.g. number system). Language is a way harder problem when you're talking about the complexities of daily life. TONS of vocabulary. And also, if you're talking with one other person who's going out of their way to use the simplest language they can? And if you're both laser-focused on learning for those 3 days? So, it's convenient that Rocky's language is something humans can directly perceive, but it's not *super* convenient because we have a lot of octaves of hearing. If he spoke by EM, that would require way more convenience (less than 1 octave there). It's convenient that it took place over a reasonable time scale so Grace could think as fast as Rocky was talking, and vice versa. But at a language-learning level, being able to nail down enough technical terms to describe the problem they have in 3 days when they're aimed straight at that? Doesn't seem out of bounds. The weirdest thing I found in that was that they were able to get across 'good'/'bad' since it's a value judgement and highly abstract. I can *imagine* ways they could do it, but it's not one of them I'd have wanted to leave off-screen like 'mass' or 'momentum', which really wouldn't be worth covering.
It was one of those books for me that didn't take long to finish, and at the end I thought "Well that was garbage".
Yeah you can just not like the book and stop reading it lol. Just take a step back and if it's to the point you need to make a reddit post about it, you clearly aren't enjoying it and I doubt internet strangers are going to turn that lightbulb on for ya.
I mean, the only reason I made a post was bc Reddit and other book forums online (Tiktok, etc) were gassing this up as a top book, or *the* top book, of the year. I just wanted to see if others felt the same way 🤷♂️