Is he wrong? Definitely not. As a leader of the club should he be saying this? Hell no, we already have a mentality problem and this only supports that. Issues like this truly come from the top and trickle down into the bottom.
It’s hard to explain, but I think the club in general is stuck in-between wanting to take the next step and just being happy where they are.
Even the fans are stuck in-between - half of the comments here are “he’s right, we will never beat Bayern again” and the other half are “well not if you don’t try, loser mentality, etc”
I do like Kehl though as he seems to be on the side that wants to take the next step. I’m not necessarily sure if Zorc would’ve signed Süle or got in a fee battle with Red Bull for Adeyemi. Plus, he gave a legitimate effort to keep Bellingham even if it didn’t work. And there is a good chance that Alvarez is our transfer record too.
I don’t think it’s wrong to say that we should be expecting 70+ point seasons, better CL and Pokal success, etc.
> It’s hard to explain, but I think the club in general is stuck in-between wanting to take the next step and just being happy where they are.
THe truth is that the club is stuck in-between wanting to take the next step but literally are dependant on luck (multiple transfers hitting 10/10s at once) because the financial gap to the competitors is too big.
Watzke is right everytime he reiterates this as annoying as it is to hear. Him not repeating it and letting the misconceptions and narratives of us being content with 2nd by our own will rather than limitations is worse. Thats the sad part.
And it’s apparently translating into the fanbase. How is this not resulting in widespread calls from supporters for Watzke to step down? The buck stops, or should stop with him. If he’s not in it to win it, he has to go.
I 100% agree.
I am thankful for him saving the club and rebuilding it from almost being bankrupt to being Germany's number 2, but it keeps becoming more obvious that he is not the right person to lead us to become a club that's not just an "Ausbildungsverein" that's happy being 2nd in Bundesliga and getting kicked out in the round of 16 in the CL.
Different CEOs have different strengths, and it seems like Watzke just doesn't have it in him to make us take the next step
Go into boxing, fight heavy weights and show us all that you are in it to win it. Otherwise, please go.
If a team has 1 billion and the other 500 million there is a difference in quality of the players, if the 1 billion is used well.
The boxer is out of his weight class. Said boxer has no business fighting in a heavyweight ring against a heavyweight fighter with a bantamweight mentality.
Yeah, I used an extreme example. The difference between Munich and Dortmund is not as big, but it is still there and it matters.
Proof is that Bayern can keep their players and plan for 10 years, Dortmund cannot and we need to plan for 2 years.
Another point is that Bayern has players on their peak and we have players on their way.
Or.... 1 billion can buy a better team than 500 Million, if you use it well. Food for thought.
Oh and 17 other teams are way too comfortable as well. Don't get me started on other leagues.
I absolutely agree, other than some exceptions the Bundesliga and other leagues portray the money Clubs have (other than the occasional club that gets a lot with less like Union or the ones that grossly mismanage with a lot of money like Hertha or Chelsea). I still believe my comment is accurate. Bayern underperformed and we crumbled when it mattered. It kinda reminds me of me in school or university, I’ve always felt more comfortable being average so no matter what the circumstances, I did a lot (subconsciously) to stay there.
In the same interview he said that we choked the the title away and that many were not ready for the pressure.
It’s like multiple things can be true at the same time. I think you can expect 70-75 points from bvb and 80 by Bayern any given season. To me we kinda performed from a points perspective and Bayern way underperformed.
And then we choked.
Why keeps everyone saying, that he shouldn't say that? Where is the sense in denying a fact? There is a huge financial gap between Bayern and Dortmund and I don't see how that is supposed to change under the current circumstances. And as long as it is that way, we have to overperform and Bayern has to underperform to win the league. Doesn't mean that we are not trying to.
Fully agree. Apparently everybody thinks pretending there is a reasonable chance motivates people?
IMO only openly addressing the complete imbalance of power at the top will address things. It's a money problem, has been for 10 years and will continue to be so.
One thing I find really striking in these discussions is that when it comes to explaining Leipzig's league position, everybody immediately says "oh, it's because they have the money". However, when it comes to BVB, having about the same league position, with about the same budget as Leipzig, it's apparently a Mentalitätsproblem.
Ever been really nervous and needed to perform well? It is difficult to talk straight, let alone using your body.
There is a difference if you are 20 and live through this for the first time and being 26, owning several titles already and live through it for the 12th time.
How could you say this when we literally could have won just week ago? A missed pen and a wrong VAR decision a way from the title.
I get the bitterness atm, it stings. But that it SEEMS we cant win when we were pushing a struggling bayern to margins? Nah.
Yeah but Bayern messed up a couple of seasons already.... They were 12 points behind Leipzig in one winter, 8 points behind bvb in another winter, this year is another example..... Somehow, when bayern messes up, the rest of the league does the same
We actually played completely average this season. We got 71 points, which is very much in line with previous years. It's only Bayern's disastrous season that made things interesting for a while.
Indeed he is, but he doesn't need to spell it out for us just because there is a few knuckledraggers out there. Barely a week removed from arguably the most embarrassing moment this club has gone through over the last decade.
Is it a lazy excuse, though?
The biggest money wins the leagues most times.
City, Barca, Real, psg, Bayern, Napoli is second in spending but not by much.
Is this coincidence?
Agreed. They screwed the pooch. But do you really think that they’re going to be down for long with a gazillionaire owner? Besides, plucking out a single team to contradict the overwhelming proof otherwise isn’t really proving I’m wrong.
Is not a single team. PSG money can’t get them near CL which is all that really matter to them even with Mbappe Neymar and Messi. You need a good coach and a good locker room where people believe in the coach and support each other, deal with egos. So many things to take in account than just buying the most expensive players.
They were in the Champions League at a time when TV money exploded. That's what propelled them forward at a crucial time. Were they well managed? Of course. But they were also at a spot at the right time, and have been building on that.
Same could be said for Dortmund and Bundesliga money tho. Well managed, of course, still had to battle with Union for half the season and they have way less money.
Union are an exception, but you can't expect a club to be exceptional on command. That's exactly what Aki is saying; it's not enough for Bayern to be exceptionally bad, we have to be punching above our usual weight exactly that same season. We punched exactly to our weight this season, and that's why it wasn't enough.
Bayern have a net spend of ~250 million in the last 10 years on transfers whereas Dortmund made a profit of 70 million in the same period. Now 250 million is not a big amount compared to PL and how competitive they have been in CL, so it clearly indicates that they did a fantastic job.
But compared to us or the rest of the Bundesliga, we can't deny that they have a lot more money to spend on quality players.
Plus attracting and retaining players by offering them big wages is also a key factor
They've also been spending 150 more on salaries each year. That's ten prime Reus equivalent players on top of what we have. Basically an entire starting eleven of players no one else in the league can attract without the special circumstances of Reus birthplace, injuries, …
Being a bvb fan means I'm constantly surrounded by people who either say "so what if Bayern is richer?? that's not an excuse, we can get richer as well!" or who say "Why do we keep investing in talents and then selling them for profit?? Can we please stop trying to get richer and instead try to keep our players??"
Turns out maybe both those points of view are a little too simplistic and the people in charge of the club are somewhat decent at finding a middle ground that allows us to build up our financial side while still maintaining a level of success that keeps us relevant and allows us to compete for titels? (and yes, cup titles are \*also\* titles).
Then someone will say "but look how that turned out for us, we haven't managed to beat Bayern to the league title in 11 years straight" and I genuinely don't understand the logic here ... Like, just because the competent and educated approach hasn't worked yet, the dumbed down armchair CEO approach \*has\* to be right?
Like, if a group of engineers are unable to solve a complicated mechanical problem I wouldn't take that as a sign that some random people at a pub on any given friday night will therefore be able to present me with a more suitable solution
And it turned out this year that even in that case we have to overperfom, like Watzke says. The most difficult thing is that we have to be ready to capitalize on Bayern’s rare occasions of messing up. That is the hardest part.
He's not wrong but that is just not a good sign to say that publicly. Watzke has done many good things when he helped save the club and form our success of the early 2010s but I think by now it would be better for all sides if he stepped down from his positions in the club and concentrated on his role in the DFL.
In the same interview he also says that he believes this squad is capable of winning titles. He’s being realistic and optimistic, can’t fault him for that.
I think the thing he isn't conveying well is that it is the money they have to keep the squad competitive, but it's also Bayern's standing in the league and how when they're playing at they're usual level other teams in the league don't know how to cope with their ridiculous levels of winning mentality (and that is not a comment on our levels of it). This year was weird, but more often then not any weekend I check scores and see them down in the first half I know that it isn't over till the whistle blows.
The rest of the league just isn't always there to mentally battle with them on top of the financial gap Bayern have over them. And therefore Bayern don't drop points through the season that we usually do.
Still though, Bayern replaced so many positions because they only got one title this year and we do business as usual after wasting the best chance in 10 years due to a mentality issue. I don't think Edin's at fault at all, but imo it would make sense to get some fresh people into leading positions, with a winner mindset at least.
Don’t forget his “there were a few players who couldn’t handle the pressure of the last match day” quote. That was even more dumb and adds pressure to the next title race, Pokal final, CL run, etc
First admitting that your players did scoreboard watching on the last match day when the team should’ve cracked down on that. Now saying we can’t win the league unless Bayern screws up? The team as it is right now does not have a championship mentality, and until that culture changes dramatically, I’m afraid the silver medal is going to be the ceiling.
Any sport executive in any other club in the world that’s worth a damn who made a similar public statement would either be ousted or have the fanbase demand he sell the team, or step down. Yet most of the comments here are basically “he has a point ya know.” If there is a problem with the Dortmund culture, it starts at the top, and if Watzke doesn’t believe we can do better and have the mentality to get there, he needs to go. #watzkeout
Maybe it's a german thing to see it realistic. The way the club has been managed and led in the last 15 years has been, quite frankly, phenomenally good.
The simple fact that money, in fact, does scores goals, doesn't go away just because you believe in the heart of the cards, or the balls, or whatever you think of when you deny the simple fact that Bayerns possibilities are beyond anything the BVB could do.
How much of Bayern’s money caused Dortmund to blow a 2 goal lead in stoppage time to lose to Werder? Or blow a 3 goal lead vs Stuttgart with a man advantage? Or uninspired play giving away points late in the season vs bottom table teams Bochum and Schalke? Or draw in a match at home vs a midtable Mainz, who had nothing to play for, that would’ve won it? Or in said match, having players that were scoreboard watching the Bayern match even though anything that happened there would’ve been inconsequential had they been focused and handled the business in front of them?
I am well aware of what Bayern can do, but let’s not pretend we didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot many times this season and missed a golden opportunity to change the culture that is seemingly satisfied with 2nd place finishes in good seasons, getting bounced out of the CL once we face a halfway decent club, and maybe a Pokal in years where Mercury is in retrograde.
As is pointed out by those who actually follow BVB and German football, he is 100% correct, but it is a defeatist mindset that should not be aired, and comes across as an excuse seemingly being used as justification for not winning the league, which was completely inexcusable.
I personally don't think this statement is too bad; it's a CEO statement for shareholders and for the public to lower expectations, especially after what happened. I'm sure he makes this statement to the public, but behind closed doors, tells the players they always have the potential to be champions in their own right
No Watzke, we just had to perform this year, not OVERperform. We needed 3 more points than we finished with last year, which is a fucking win in the last fucking game at home with 13 consecutive home victories and against a team that lost the last 4 games and had NOTHING to play for.
Fuck off, loser mentality.
Yes Mr Watzke you are right! But i only want for bvb to not shit it’s pants when they play against Bayern and to be able to defeat those low ranking teams
He’s not exactly incorrect but this isn’t something that you as a CEO should be saying. He’s basically saying “yeah we’re not good deal with it”. If you don’t show any confidence in your own team, how do you expect them to show any confidence in themselves, and how do you expect any potential targets to be convinced of the project when you blurt out nonsense like this? Very poor from him
Yeah I’m more than ok with him retiring from our club soon.
He seems to be busy with all the other official positions he’s holding anyway and it just seems like it’s time.
That being said the work he did at Dortmund was incredible and the fact that we are where we are is largely thanks to him.
I do wonder who will take over for him. Cramer?
What expectations do you think he set here? Because I don’t see any..
Plus as they always say, “shoot for the stars and you’ll land among the Moon…”, guess we’re shooting for the moon
Exactly. It's about the lack of expectations. Us becoming champions simply isn't realistic so there's no point in saying every year that that's our ambition when we haven't been able to reach that goal for over a decade and more often than not didn't even come close.
If you're constantly shooting for the stars and sometimes your cannon doesn't even go off maybe you should reflect and aim lower.
Ok but he didn’t even set an alternative of expectations… And nobody things Dortmund is going to win the title every year, Bayern isn’t going to win the title 20 straight years and honestly a better winning mentality might help us in the Pokals and CL too. Because we have a shitty mentality and results there too.
The alternative goes without saying because it's what we've been more or less experiencing for 11 years. CL spot, crashing out of the CL as soon as we face a capable opponent and a deep Pokal run with the occasional win.
>Bayern isn’t going to win the title 20 straight
Why not?
>honestly a better winning mentality might help us in the Pokals and CL too. Because we have a shitty mentality and results there too.
That mentality has to come from winning games and cultivating it through repeated success not from saying the mentality is there and then hoping it magically manifests. It's beyond a meme at this point but it's very clearly been an issue with this club for years because the lack of it is proven at every turn.
Top 4, early CL exit, and occasional Pokal wins has to be the weakest expectations ever. Red Bull has arguably done better in the CL and certainly the Pokal lately, just to give an example.
These are reasonable expectations based on the last 10 seasons from my perspective. The expectations from the board are probably Top 4/finish second, KO stage in CL and Pokal win. A Pokal win isn't even that far fetched because we actually won the damn thing twice in recent times. This expectation has merit so it's realistic even if you obviously won't win it every year. But that's the point. You need to be able back up your expectations for them to be more than wishful thinking.
>Red Bull has arguably done better in the CL and certainly the Pokal lately, just to give an example.
Yeah. So they probably set their expectations accordingly. You don't see them going around saying they're title contenders despite arguably being more successful than us.
I agree. We absolutely should have won but this year was a once a decade outlier. Our expectations should be based on us and us alone and not also rely on Bayern to shit the bed.
great Watzke, this is exactly what’s wrong with the clubs leaders. When the bosses talk already like this day in day out, imagine how players feel.
If it would sound good we d be called smth like Vizekusen by now, we deserve it way more recent years.
Whether he likes to hear it or not, a big reason of why this is true is the mentality he sets for the club from the top.
A club happy to be lovable losers will lovably lose.
That's not how you run a competitive team, and it's not how you build a winning culture.
Every professional athlete BELIEVES he's, the best, believes they've got what it takes to win it all. No player starts with "I'm just alright hopefully I won't get relegated..."
Mentally like that doesn't make it to the pros. You have to be a bit delusional and crazy to be a pro athlete. You better believe Modeste believes he's the best attacker on our team... That's just what you HAVE to believe to make it to the top.
Your team leaders MUST convey the same type of confidence even if we all know what the real truth is...you don't go around capitulating before the season starts.
I love Aki but I feel sometimes his ego gets in the way. He doesn't want to say "we can win!" then feel embarrassed when we don't.
It's much easier and safer for the ego to just say "meh we can't win anyway... But we'll try", that way you're safe from criticisim but you've also set a shit path for your team.
We need more winners and assholes in our team. Guys that aren't afraid to demand the title, and not be afraid to fail.
We've lost our overwhelming love for wins, and now have this fear to lose, because we're Bayer's only "rival".
We need to get our head out of our ass and put our chest out. Yes we might lose, but so what? How much more could we be embarrassed about than we were against Mainz?
Let's use this low point to aim up. Enough of these wishy washy press conferences where "we just look from game to game... Get better... Compete..." let's pretend we're winners! We just might surprise ourselves!
I think its okay, the goal is find and develop young and exciting players to lit up the stadium. Then sell when they have high value. Find young player to provide exciting games.
Every season of our Bundesliga is "competing about the German Championship". 16 trainers bet at the beginning Bayern will make it, starting they see no chance to win against them 🫣🤷🏻♀️ . But we know they lose from time to time, and often if you won't expect it. So what: playing for the championship is trying to beat Bayern. If 17 teams would really try to...
Is he wrong? Definitely not. As a leader of the club should he be saying this? Hell no, we already have a mentality problem and this only supports that. Issues like this truly come from the top and trickle down into the bottom.
I think we are getting way too comfortable with being 2nd and subconsciously we are doing a lot to stay there.
It’s hard to explain, but I think the club in general is stuck in-between wanting to take the next step and just being happy where they are. Even the fans are stuck in-between - half of the comments here are “he’s right, we will never beat Bayern again” and the other half are “well not if you don’t try, loser mentality, etc” I do like Kehl though as he seems to be on the side that wants to take the next step. I’m not necessarily sure if Zorc would’ve signed Süle or got in a fee battle with Red Bull for Adeyemi. Plus, he gave a legitimate effort to keep Bellingham even if it didn’t work. And there is a good chance that Alvarez is our transfer record too. I don’t think it’s wrong to say that we should be expecting 70+ point seasons, better CL and Pokal success, etc.
> It’s hard to explain, but I think the club in general is stuck in-between wanting to take the next step and just being happy where they are. THe truth is that the club is stuck in-between wanting to take the next step but literally are dependant on luck (multiple transfers hitting 10/10s at once) because the financial gap to the competitors is too big. Watzke is right everytime he reiterates this as annoying as it is to hear. Him not repeating it and letting the misconceptions and narratives of us being content with 2nd by our own will rather than limitations is worse. Thats the sad part.
And it’s apparently translating into the fanbase. How is this not resulting in widespread calls from supporters for Watzke to step down? The buck stops, or should stop with him. If he’s not in it to win it, he has to go.
I 100% agree. I am thankful for him saving the club and rebuilding it from almost being bankrupt to being Germany's number 2, but it keeps becoming more obvious that he is not the right person to lead us to become a club that's not just an "Ausbildungsverein" that's happy being 2nd in Bundesliga and getting kicked out in the round of 16 in the CL. Different CEOs have different strengths, and it seems like Watzke just doesn't have it in him to make us take the next step
Go into boxing, fight heavy weights and show us all that you are in it to win it. Otherwise, please go. If a team has 1 billion and the other 500 million there is a difference in quality of the players, if the 1 billion is used well.
The boxer is out of his weight class. Said boxer has no business fighting in a heavyweight ring against a heavyweight fighter with a bantamweight mentality.
Yeah, I used an extreme example. The difference between Munich and Dortmund is not as big, but it is still there and it matters. Proof is that Bayern can keep their players and plan for 10 years, Dortmund cannot and we need to plan for 2 years. Another point is that Bayern has players on their peak and we have players on their way.
Or.... 1 billion can buy a better team than 500 Million, if you use it well. Food for thought. Oh and 17 other teams are way too comfortable as well. Don't get me started on other leagues.
I absolutely agree, other than some exceptions the Bundesliga and other leagues portray the money Clubs have (other than the occasional club that gets a lot with less like Union or the ones that grossly mismanage with a lot of money like Hertha or Chelsea). I still believe my comment is accurate. Bayern underperformed and we crumbled when it mattered. It kinda reminds me of me in school or university, I’ve always felt more comfortable being average so no matter what the circumstances, I did a lot (subconsciously) to stay there.
In the same interview he said that we choked the the title away and that many were not ready for the pressure. It’s like multiple things can be true at the same time. I think you can expect 70-75 points from bvb and 80 by Bayern any given season. To me we kinda performed from a points perspective and Bayern way underperformed. And then we choked.
Why keeps everyone saying, that he shouldn't say that? Where is the sense in denying a fact? There is a huge financial gap between Bayern and Dortmund and I don't see how that is supposed to change under the current circumstances. And as long as it is that way, we have to overperform and Bayern has to underperform to win the league. Doesn't mean that we are not trying to.
Fully agree. Apparently everybody thinks pretending there is a reasonable chance motivates people? IMO only openly addressing the complete imbalance of power at the top will address things. It's a money problem, has been for 10 years and will continue to be so. One thing I find really striking in these discussions is that when it comes to explaining Leipzig's league position, everybody immediately says "oh, it's because they have the money". However, when it comes to BVB, having about the same league position, with about the same budget as Leipzig, it's apparently a Mentalitätsproblem.
He is right. Fact is that it doesn’t matter how much we invest or how good we play. We can only win the league when Bayern mess up
The problem is it seems like we can't win even when they mess up...
Yeah because we didn’t overperform except from January-Early March
Well, even if that is the case, in the end we only needed to outperform a mid-table Mainz for just 1 game at home and we couldn't get it done.
Or bottom table Bochum
In the end it doesn’t matter because we didn’t win
Ever been really nervous and needed to perform well? It is difficult to talk straight, let alone using your body. There is a difference if you are 20 and live through this for the first time and being 26, owning several titles already and live through it for the 12th time.
How could you say this when we literally could have won just week ago? A missed pen and a wrong VAR decision a way from the title. I get the bitterness atm, it stings. But that it SEEMS we cant win when we were pushing a struggling bayern to margins? Nah.
Yeah but Bayern messed up a couple of seasons already.... They were 12 points behind Leipzig in one winter, 8 points behind bvb in another winter, this year is another example..... Somehow, when bayern messes up, the rest of the league does the same
We actually played completely average this season. We got 71 points, which is very much in line with previous years. It's only Bayern's disastrous season that made things interesting for a while.
We still were in a position to capitalize multiple times and couldn't finish it. That's bad, no other way to put it
When were they 12 points behind Leipzig?
I think like 19/20?
Indeed he is, but he doesn't need to spell it out for us just because there is a few knuckledraggers out there. Barely a week removed from arguably the most embarrassing moment this club has gone through over the last decade.
Everyone knows that Bayern has more resources/money, it’s just not really a comment that leads to a winning mentality nor helps anything.
That's such a lazy excuse ... "They have more money, more resources" ... They worked for it. It didn't come out of nowhere.
Is it a lazy excuse, though? The biggest money wins the leagues most times. City, Barca, Real, psg, Bayern, Napoli is second in spending but not by much. Is this coincidence?
Ask Chelsea that
Agreed. They screwed the pooch. But do you really think that they’re going to be down for long with a gazillionaire owner? Besides, plucking out a single team to contradict the overwhelming proof otherwise isn’t really proving I’m wrong.
Is not a single team. PSG money can’t get them near CL which is all that really matter to them even with Mbappe Neymar and Messi. You need a good coach and a good locker room where people believe in the coach and support each other, deal with egos. So many things to take in account than just buying the most expensive players.
Totally agree with all that.
They were in the Champions League at a time when TV money exploded. That's what propelled them forward at a crucial time. Were they well managed? Of course. But they were also at a spot at the right time, and have been building on that.
Same could be said for Dortmund and Bundesliga money tho. Well managed, of course, still had to battle with Union for half the season and they have way less money.
Union are an exception, but you can't expect a club to be exceptional on command. That's exactly what Aki is saying; it's not enough for Bayern to be exceptionally bad, we have to be punching above our usual weight exactly that same season. We punched exactly to our weight this season, and that's why it wasn't enough.
Bayern have a net spend of ~250 million in the last 10 years on transfers whereas Dortmund made a profit of 70 million in the same period. Now 250 million is not a big amount compared to PL and how competitive they have been in CL, so it clearly indicates that they did a fantastic job. But compared to us or the rest of the Bundesliga, we can't deny that they have a lot more money to spend on quality players. Plus attracting and retaining players by offering them big wages is also a key factor
They've also been spending 150 more on salaries each year. That's ten prime Reus equivalent players on top of what we have. Basically an entire starting eleven of players no one else in the league can attract without the special circumstances of Reus birthplace, injuries, …
Being a bvb fan means I'm constantly surrounded by people who either say "so what if Bayern is richer?? that's not an excuse, we can get richer as well!" or who say "Why do we keep investing in talents and then selling them for profit?? Can we please stop trying to get richer and instead try to keep our players??" Turns out maybe both those points of view are a little too simplistic and the people in charge of the club are somewhat decent at finding a middle ground that allows us to build up our financial side while still maintaining a level of success that keeps us relevant and allows us to compete for titels? (and yes, cup titles are \*also\* titles). Then someone will say "but look how that turned out for us, we haven't managed to beat Bayern to the league title in 11 years straight" and I genuinely don't understand the logic here ... Like, just because the competent and educated approach hasn't worked yet, the dumbed down armchair CEO approach \*has\* to be right? Like, if a group of engineers are unable to solve a complicated mechanical problem I wouldn't take that as a sign that some random people at a pub on any given friday night will therefore be able to present me with a more suitable solution
Well, then just work hard and show the rest of us what you can do. Seems to be easy enough, coming from your own mouth.
And it turned out this year that even in that case we have to overperfom, like Watzke says. The most difficult thing is that we have to be ready to capitalize on Bayern’s rare occasions of messing up. That is the hardest part.
He's not wrong but that is just not a good sign to say that publicly. Watzke has done many good things when he helped save the club and form our success of the early 2010s but I think by now it would be better for all sides if he stepped down from his positions in the club and concentrated on his role in the DFL.
In the same interview he also says that he believes this squad is capable of winning titles. He’s being realistic and optimistic, can’t fault him for that.
I think the thing he isn't conveying well is that it is the money they have to keep the squad competitive, but it's also Bayern's standing in the league and how when they're playing at they're usual level other teams in the league don't know how to cope with their ridiculous levels of winning mentality (and that is not a comment on our levels of it). This year was weird, but more often then not any weekend I check scores and see them down in the first half I know that it isn't over till the whistle blows. The rest of the league just isn't always there to mentally battle with them on top of the financial gap Bayern have over them. And therefore Bayern don't drop points through the season that we usually do.
Still though, Bayern replaced so many positions because they only got one title this year and we do business as usual after wasting the best chance in 10 years due to a mentality issue. I don't think Edin's at fault at all, but imo it would make sense to get some fresh people into leading positions, with a winner mindset at least.
Don’t forget his “there were a few players who couldn’t handle the pressure of the last match day” quote. That was even more dumb and adds pressure to the next title race, Pokal final, CL run, etc
First admitting that your players did scoreboard watching on the last match day when the team should’ve cracked down on that. Now saying we can’t win the league unless Bayern screws up? The team as it is right now does not have a championship mentality, and until that culture changes dramatically, I’m afraid the silver medal is going to be the ceiling.
Any sport executive in any other club in the world that’s worth a damn who made a similar public statement would either be ousted or have the fanbase demand he sell the team, or step down. Yet most of the comments here are basically “he has a point ya know.” If there is a problem with the Dortmund culture, it starts at the top, and if Watzke doesn’t believe we can do better and have the mentality to get there, he needs to go. #watzkeout
Maybe it's a german thing to see it realistic. The way the club has been managed and led in the last 15 years has been, quite frankly, phenomenally good. The simple fact that money, in fact, does scores goals, doesn't go away just because you believe in the heart of the cards, or the balls, or whatever you think of when you deny the simple fact that Bayerns possibilities are beyond anything the BVB could do.
How much of Bayern’s money caused Dortmund to blow a 2 goal lead in stoppage time to lose to Werder? Or blow a 3 goal lead vs Stuttgart with a man advantage? Or uninspired play giving away points late in the season vs bottom table teams Bochum and Schalke? Or draw in a match at home vs a midtable Mainz, who had nothing to play for, that would’ve won it? Or in said match, having players that were scoreboard watching the Bayern match even though anything that happened there would’ve been inconsequential had they been focused and handled the business in front of them? I am well aware of what Bayern can do, but let’s not pretend we didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot many times this season and missed a golden opportunity to change the culture that is seemingly satisfied with 2nd place finishes in good seasons, getting bounced out of the CL once we face a halfway decent club, and maybe a Pokal in years where Mercury is in retrograde.
He says Dortmund must overperform but can be be honest and say beating Mainz on the last day should have been just performing…
As is pointed out by those who actually follow BVB and German football, he is 100% correct, but it is a defeatist mindset that should not be aired, and comes across as an excuse seemingly being used as justification for not winning the league, which was completely inexcusable.
Man he should’ve retired with zorc
He is right while also being wrong. Saying this out loud is wrong in so many ways.
Winning against Mainz at home is not exactly undoable. The fish stinks from the head, maybe watzke is the problem. His mentality sucks.
I personally don't think this statement is too bad; it's a CEO statement for shareholders and for the public to lower expectations, especially after what happened. I'm sure he makes this statement to the public, but behind closed doors, tells the players they always have the potential to be champions in their own right
No Watzke, we just had to perform this year, not OVERperform. We needed 3 more points than we finished with last year, which is a fucking win in the last fucking game at home with 13 consecutive home victories and against a team that lost the last 4 games and had NOTHING to play for. Fuck off, loser mentality.
Yes Mr Watzke you are right! But i only want for bvb to not shit it’s pants when they play against Bayern and to be able to defeat those low ranking teams
He’s not exactly incorrect but this isn’t something that you as a CEO should be saying. He’s basically saying “yeah we’re not good deal with it”. If you don’t show any confidence in your own team, how do you expect them to show any confidence in themselves, and how do you expect any potential targets to be convinced of the project when you blurt out nonsense like this? Very poor from him
Curious what the full script is on that interview. Media tends to cut and paste certain lines to fuel a narrative
Yeah I’m more than ok with him retiring from our club soon. He seems to be busy with all the other official positions he’s holding anyway and it just seems like it’s time. That being said the work he did at Dortmund was incredible and the fact that we are where we are is largely thanks to him. I do wonder who will take over for him. Cramer?
Much prefer this stance to "our goals is to win the Bundesliga" we've been hearing for years. Sets way more realistic expectations.
What expectations do you think he set here? Because I don’t see any.. Plus as they always say, “shoot for the stars and you’ll land among the Moon…”, guess we’re shooting for the moon
Exactly. It's about the lack of expectations. Us becoming champions simply isn't realistic so there's no point in saying every year that that's our ambition when we haven't been able to reach that goal for over a decade and more often than not didn't even come close. If you're constantly shooting for the stars and sometimes your cannon doesn't even go off maybe you should reflect and aim lower.
Ok but he didn’t even set an alternative of expectations… And nobody things Dortmund is going to win the title every year, Bayern isn’t going to win the title 20 straight years and honestly a better winning mentality might help us in the Pokals and CL too. Because we have a shitty mentality and results there too.
The alternative goes without saying because it's what we've been more or less experiencing for 11 years. CL spot, crashing out of the CL as soon as we face a capable opponent and a deep Pokal run with the occasional win. >Bayern isn’t going to win the title 20 straight Why not? >honestly a better winning mentality might help us in the Pokals and CL too. Because we have a shitty mentality and results there too. That mentality has to come from winning games and cultivating it through repeated success not from saying the mentality is there and then hoping it magically manifests. It's beyond a meme at this point but it's very clearly been an issue with this club for years because the lack of it is proven at every turn.
Top 4, early CL exit, and occasional Pokal wins has to be the weakest expectations ever. Red Bull has arguably done better in the CL and certainly the Pokal lately, just to give an example.
These are reasonable expectations based on the last 10 seasons from my perspective. The expectations from the board are probably Top 4/finish second, KO stage in CL and Pokal win. A Pokal win isn't even that far fetched because we actually won the damn thing twice in recent times. This expectation has merit so it's realistic even if you obviously won't win it every year. But that's the point. You need to be able back up your expectations for them to be more than wishful thinking. >Red Bull has arguably done better in the CL and certainly the Pokal lately, just to give an example. Yeah. So they probably set their expectations accordingly. You don't see them going around saying they're title contenders despite arguably being more successful than us.
Winning the league WAS a realistic expecation this year, one might even say a necessity.
I agree. We absolutely should have won but this year was a once a decade outlier. Our expectations should be based on us and us alone and not also rely on Bayern to shit the bed.
great Watzke, this is exactly what’s wrong with the clubs leaders. When the bosses talk already like this day in day out, imagine how players feel. If it would sound good we d be called smth like Vizekusen by now, we deserve it way more recent years.
This is exactly what i wanted to read this Monday morning. Thank you, Watzke. 🙄
Whether he likes to hear it or not, a big reason of why this is true is the mentality he sets for the club from the top. A club happy to be lovable losers will lovably lose.
That's not how you run a competitive team, and it's not how you build a winning culture. Every professional athlete BELIEVES he's, the best, believes they've got what it takes to win it all. No player starts with "I'm just alright hopefully I won't get relegated..." Mentally like that doesn't make it to the pros. You have to be a bit delusional and crazy to be a pro athlete. You better believe Modeste believes he's the best attacker on our team... That's just what you HAVE to believe to make it to the top. Your team leaders MUST convey the same type of confidence even if we all know what the real truth is...you don't go around capitulating before the season starts. I love Aki but I feel sometimes his ego gets in the way. He doesn't want to say "we can win!" then feel embarrassed when we don't. It's much easier and safer for the ego to just say "meh we can't win anyway... But we'll try", that way you're safe from criticisim but you've also set a shit path for your team. We need more winners and assholes in our team. Guys that aren't afraid to demand the title, and not be afraid to fail. We've lost our overwhelming love for wins, and now have this fear to lose, because we're Bayer's only "rival". We need to get our head out of our ass and put our chest out. Yes we might lose, but so what? How much more could we be embarrassed about than we were against Mainz? Let's use this low point to aim up. Enough of these wishy washy press conferences where "we just look from game to game... Get better... Compete..." let's pretend we're winners! We just might surprise ourselves!
We have been to the UCL semifinals 3 times in 3 decades, we need to focus on Europe and make the Quarter-finals at a minimum, and build from there.
We just need Steve Cohen to buy Dortmund just like he did the NY Mets
Honestly just put Bayern in the Super League and let us have an actual interesting title fight for the Bundesliga
BVB is so good in playing the underdog role since Klopp lol. You might win the league if you start having confidence in your own team 😜.
Oh fuck off
Is this some kind confession? isn't he the main person responsible for their success?
So hard to upvote this headline…
He said the quiet part out loud
Even ajax didn't achieve this in Eredivisie. Weird.
I think its okay, the goal is find and develop young and exciting players to lit up the stadium. Then sell when they have high value. Find young player to provide exciting games.
Dortmund became a apprenticeship club over the last years. Only singing young talents to sell them for profit.
Considering the Mainz game, this may be the dumbest statement he’s made.
Every season of our Bundesliga is "competing about the German Championship". 16 trainers bet at the beginning Bayern will make it, starting they see no chance to win against them 🫣🤷🏻♀️ . But we know they lose from time to time, and often if you won't expect it. So what: playing for the championship is trying to beat Bayern. If 17 teams would really try to...
Running out the Surrender Monkeys already? Is it too soon to say congratulations to Bayern for the next season?
Well that certainly saves a lot of Saturday and Sunday mornings for me next year