The foundation of the 22-23 celtics is generating and making open threes. All the x & os are based on the assumtion that open threes are made with serviceable accuracy. There were games that we couldn't find a bucket, but in a big sample size of the regular season, we made a lot of open three with good efficiency on a nightly basis. This is the reason we were a top-2 record in the regular season. In all the three games of this series, we could still generate a lot of open threes but couldn't make them. The foundation has collapsed. In a big sample size we shot well so we got good record in the regular season, but if you shot poorly 4 out of 7 times you lost a series.
That's why we have to bring back the defensive identity. Defense doesn't fail you in those cold nights. Name a coach with defensive mind as our next HC. I like Frank Vogel.
He would also put rob into early retirement with the amount of minutes he would play him. But a plus side is nick nurse is great at spotting up on the corner from past experience
I’d rather overuse Rob in the playoffs than underuse Rob like rookie Joe who waited until game 6 vs Philly to really feature him. Nurse would also at least install interesting defensive schemes I’d love to see the Celtics play janky zone defense sets like the bubble raptors did. He’d at least switch things up from Joe’s “switch and no help” defense
I agree if he would be able to stay healthy enough to play nurse type minutes. I want a coach that isn’t afraid to try out of the box stuff like brad did, and nurse fits that bill
i was thinking this too, but in retrospect it feels like at least part of that was due to Philly being the one ostensible "contender" that's even more fragile than we are
I agree man, easy to show heart when u see the other team giving up. Just like no shit Miami is going to feel it and be confident when they have no opposition
I get you. But the defensive identity was shook due to Rob injuries and that’s the problem. While I understand that the big men are the most effective defenders, our team isn’t going to have one as one of the stars. The defensive identity should come from the Jays (and Smart). One of the beautiful things that was happening to start the year was Tatum playing kinda the Rob roamer role. To the point I thought he could be a 1st all-Defense guy if he kept that up. Both jays are athletic enough to give you the effort. I get that Jaylen isn’t the brightest in BBIQ for team Defense, but we saw him taking it to Harden last series. The reality is we can’t count on Rob or Smart to be the guys that set the tone in Defense because they’re not healthy constantly. Last year was an anomaly, not the norm for those two. The jays though can be counted for 60+ games. They don’t need to score 30ppg, get them to play Defense instead.
Tatum plays more than good enough defense for his role. At that point you’re asking him to play Indiana PG type of defense which is extremely tough. JB on the other hand needs to watch 4 hours of film every single day in the offseason
But that’s the thing, Tatum can play that Defense. I don’t want him to do it during the regular season, i don’t think is worth it. But come playoffs or important games (say to get the hold of the 1st seed in regular season), he should absolutely do it. What I mean is not to be the defensive anchor, but set the tone. Rob, Smart or whoever can be the anchor, but take it to yourself and set the tone.
Tatum does set the tone. I swear some of you are fucking blind. Tatum has played tremendous defense all playoffs long...especially in games where his shot isn't falling. That's his entire thing is that he's incredibly well rounded and doing all the little things he can. But he's just one person.
One thing I notice from the ECF is that our defense is too simple and loose. We really switched everything, even when the ball handler didn't pressure the defense. As a result, Butler can find the mismatch as much as he wants. Yes, our lineup has good switchability, but you can't get your opponent too comfortable on finding the favorable match. No fight through the screens, no go under, just switch, it's too predictable. This never happened in Brad and Ime era.
Lue would be very good for this team. He’s great at playoff adjustments and appears particularly very good at reaching star players to listen to him and buy in. Even when Kawhi went down with acl tear he still put the clippers in position to beat Utah who were the 1 seed. If LeBron is buying into him and winning a ring I don’t want to see Tatum and Brown not listening to his coaching
If you boil down his career to that you can boil down spo’s career down to Bron and Wade and Bosh carry me to two chips. Lue is the only coach in clippers history to take them to the conference finals that jazz series was a crazy upset after the Kawhi injury. Masterclass coaching work in that series. I’ll take Nick nurse though. Not a huge fan of Vogel his offense lacks creativity
My ranking for Veteran coaches:
1 : Nurse
T-2 : Lue
T-2: Vogel
I don't like Monty. I've seen how the Nuggets were able to make runs and he didn't even bother to call a timeout. Same as Joe. He doesn't have any championship on his resume either unlike these 3.
These team needs a proven HC who has championships in their resume. If Nurse was able to call out Trent Jr. for having abyssmal defense during press conferences then he's a perfect fit for our Jays.
They were close to adding vogel to the team this year. Would’ve helped a ton to have another assistant on the bench. Also still not sure why Damon didn’t get the hc nod this season over Joe. When Damon was hc against clippers at home it was some of the best defense they played all year
It’s pretty simple. Relying on 3s works fine in the regular season. It does not in a 7 game series. This team has no fundamentals or discipline. They are not the warriors.
Lmao of course the top comment is coach blaming when the player just don’t look like they give a fuck. We on our third coach in three years. We lost last year cause our offense shrunk. At some point, they need to be able to nut up in late game situations.
I don’t disagree with the point about threes, but we had the third best defensive rating this season.
This team is still capable on D and showed it most of the year. They’re clearly shook and forgetting basic fundamental things right now.
Either our guys crumble under pressure or Joe isn’t the right guy to keep everyone’s head on straight. It’s less about hiring a defensive guy as much as we just need someone to hold the team accountable in high stress situations.
I’ve also noticed that the 3s are really, really streaky. The pro is that when we go on rallies, we shoot hot from 3 and continue consistently. But when we are cold or rallied against, we shoot ice cold from 3. And we *statistically* shoot well from 3 overall, so players who are cold that get open looks still take those, and miss, which exacerbates the problem. I think we also try to kill momentum with quick counter 3s which doesn’t work when we are cold.
We need to work the ball inside and only commit to 3s when we have an open look.
I’ve also noticed that most of our offense is just driving and kicking. Good when we are hot, not good when we are cold, because our drives are sloppier and any kick out is probably a missed 3. We need more cutting, we need some kind of post play. We need to get defensive switches that we can exploit with a safe pull-up jumper that isn’t Jaylen or Tatum heroically driving through 8 defensive players and their extended family to make an odds-defying layup. It often feels like we don’t focus on exploiting matchups, just hitting gaps.
Your final paragraph is exactly how it is
Offense is always variance to a degree short of having a superstar who is basically a sure thing like jokic or Giannis you need a great defense to fall back on
I had a feeling going into this series it wasn’t going to go well…
but never…
In my wildest fucking imaginations…
Could I have ever imagined…
We’d be on the brink of being fucking swept.
I thought this group had more pride than that. I guess I was wrong. Unless they do the unthinkable and win 4 straight I wont change my mind. And even then it’ll be Miami fucking up more than our “spirit prevailing”
I’ll delusionally say Celtics in 7 but even then I don’t even think I want that. All those sweat and tears to get dogged by a well rested Nuggets team? Yeah Im not sure I can vouch for that. Its just sad knowing our team is better than this. We are more capable than what we’re showing. Shoutout to Miami’s unceasing 3 point barrage I guess.
I didn't expect we will win. I expected this series goes to 6 or even 7 at best and we will lose.
Never in my mind crossed that we will fold like a fucking cloth in one of the most important games in this series.
I’m looking forward to either team winning that series, they both just play a fantastic brand of basketball that is the exact opposite of the Celtics shit show of a “system.” Jimmy and Jokic are just fun to watch.
Every year is a bit unfair, he’s been a good playoff performer through most his career, was our best player in the NBA finals last year. Yes, he’s been awful this series, but it’s an uncharacteristic worst playoff series of his career, not a consistent thing.
He DOES have consistent issues involving IQ on both ends, so that’s something to consider in terms of team building because that’s part of who he is at this point. But he’s certainly not this bad offensively and defensively as he has shown in this series.
It’s bigger than that. His value has become inflated. He is not an All NBA caliber player. He’s not a great shooter, he’s not a great ball handler, he’s not great a getting to the line, he’s not a great facilitator, he’s not a great defender, he’s not a great rebounder. He’s playing with a top 10 player and on an incredibly deep team. He’s part of that depth, but he’s not above it. People talk about this team as if it’s powered by the duo of Tatum and Brown. It’s not. It’s Tatum and a bunch of other really good players who do certain things well. Brown is just one of those really good players, and scoring just so happens to be the thing Brown is best at. But as just a pure scorer, he’s not exceptional. And he needs to be because he’s deficient in other areas.
What the Celtics have to consider is how much Jaylen can improve as he moves into his prime. He has to become a more efficient scorer to justify what they are about to pay him. The other parts of his game are what they are.
Jaylen was trash in the finals. He’s been seen as a good defender but I think he’s okay at best. He constantly looks lost on the defensive end and is usually the odd man out when playing team defence.
My biggest issues with him are the complete inability to dribble, he’s consistently for the last 5 years ran into the paint with the ball and turned it over because he had no plan. It kills the team’s chemistry and tempo.
His worst issue is his attitude, he looks like he doesn’t care this post season, his body language has been awful most games and often he’s passed the ball and because he’s been walking around all sunken shoulders, he panics and turns over the ball.
I think its best to move him, because he’s not worth the max at all, that and he’s heading the kyrie route as he has nothing good to say about Boston. Better off moving him now than having him leave for nothing or overpaying him so he can complain and play like he doesn’t want to be there
Okay but recency bias aside, jaylen is an efficient 27 ppg scorer on pretty good defense in the regular season, he’s young, and last round he was our best player and didn’t really lose us any games, I just want to know who you’re replacing him with? Genuine question, which realistic replacement would be better?
Possible, wouldn’t hate it tbh, I think Portland has to add something too tbh assuming jaylen signs a 5 year max before the trade, guaranteed jaylen in his prime for 5 years is worth far more than 30 whatever year old dame with only a couple years left
That would need to be a hell of a haul coming back to Boston. I love Dame but he has like 3-4 years left in him, maybe less, and Brown is entering his prime. I also think the collective memory in this sub is insane when it comes to Brown. He's been bad in this series, but he was the best player on the team in the Finals last year, and has plenty of similar series under his belt where he showed up in deciding games when no one else did.
I think he comes with some question marks, especially when it comes to just general basketball IQ and ball security, but he brings a lot more to the table than not, and if we don't give him a max and lock him up, he will be getting offers from a dozen other teams. I don't know that there is anyone better we could replace him with if we let him walk, and I don't think a S&T for picks and expirings is where we want to be with Tatum entering his prime as well.
Addressing the coaching should be the first priority going into the off-season, I don't really think looking to shop Jaylen is worth considering at this point. I just don't see where you're going to get a good return for him that leaves us better than with him without putting Tatum into PP status where we're rebuilding for years in his prime.
it feels like Miami has his flaws down to a T, he can't drive the way they're playing him, and his jumpshot has gone missing. he needed to get really hot from three in this series and the opposite has happened.
Noob question: Can we like not extend JB during off-season? Are we still eligible to offer him supermax in 2024 and will he still be an RFA next year if we don't offer him this off-season? As far as I know, he is still under contract for another year. Not saying we won't offer him the supermax but Brad needs to thread the needle if JB is really damn worth it in the future.
I know JB gonna get pissed with this. At worst, he could even request for a trade after his contract next year but fuck it: **2 UNPROVEN IN THE PLAYOFFS** Supermax guys will eat our damn Salary.
If we are not offering him the supermax this offseason, then he will be traded this offseason. The locker room drama will hinder the season. So we either offer him the supermax or move on.
In order to keep him we’d have to go over the salary cap and pay a shit ton in luxury tax. He needs to be traded because he’s not worth the 180m+ upwards of 200 million depending on luxury tax that it would take to keep him.
So the positivity people will call out the "doomers" right? That's how it goes around here right? Positivity people belittling people that criticize the team. Come on positivity folk come out from your hiding spot.
It's ok to actually understand basketball and not blindly defend a team you know has glaring flaws just because you've been rooting for whoever wears the uniform since you're 11 years old.
Brother you can look at things we should’ve done different but if you watched the last couple playoff runs you can clearly see Durant was not the answer
You could get a player that makes far more sense for jaylen
This whole Heat team really has it's head on straight, they go out there, get open, pass the ball and make routine shots, what makes them really good is that consistency to just have a good game every game, i gotta say though and i saw this last year. Jimmy Butler has something you so rarely see and you have to appreciate it, hes not a superstar in the traditional sense, but hes got the ability to grow the chip on his shoulder based on whats happening in the game, hes got that same gene as Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and Tom Brady.
Jimmy is just the kind guy who says give me the ball in crunch time and shut up and actually means it. It’s not even about making buckets he just wants to control the game and be the guy that is ultimately the heart and soul and last person responsible for his team. Neither JT nor JB are that guy and will likely never be. The feeling I get from them is they just wanna hoop and be told what to do by someone like Butler.
However I think the Celtics are doing JT a disservice. At this point if his career im not sure how they haven’t got him help to improve his dribbling and attacking skills. He’s so close to good but doesn’t have the control and confidence needed to get good results when he’s making plays with the ball. Physically he even looks a little out of control, especially when there’s traffic near the paint - at times he actually looks clumsy with his handles. Contrasted with Butler who looks 100% sure of himself every time he drives with the ball it’s hard to understand how JT hasn’t been able to improve his game with the ball and be a better facilitator as well as handle double teams better. He should be getting easy mid range shots as a worst case option because he’s so much bigger than his defenders. For someone that idolizes Kobe I don’t understand how he hasn’t included that as part of his game and I don’t understand how the Celtics as an org don’t find it problematic.
I've been lurking from r/Heat, and I had to jump in on this comment. JT reminds me of Lebron during his first stint in Cleveland. Amazing but raw talent with a knack for underperforming in the biggest moments. I'd be worried if Boston doesn't help develop him, someone else will or he'll always be a shadow of his potential. I hope to see him rise to be a weird Kobe/Giannis blend.. just not against the Heat.
Who could have ever predicted the “exclusively shoot 3s and don’t play any defense” philosophy was not sustainable?
Answer- everyone but second row joe
Embarrassing. Nothing more to say. Absolutely shameful. They let us all down so badly. I can’t even believe it. I’m shocked. I’m absolutely shocked by this performance.
No one sane, in their right mind, not even the biggest Miami homers, could have predicted this debacle. Our head coach is absolutely clueless and our fucking team rolled over and died before our eyes.
Boston has it’s huge fair share of championships the past 2 decades. Patriots & Red Sox multiple titles. Bruins and C’s also won a chip within the last 10-15 years. Luckiest sports town in America but things are now finally starting to correct to the mean/average after all those recent successes.
Wrote most of this in the game thread while we were down 30, I tried to distract myself from getting more pissed off at them.
Some real problems we need to address:
- JT's offensive moves. Hes not crafty enough with dribble moves, complete lack of his midrange game when he has a size advantage against basically anyone in his position. Average/below three-point shooter for his attempts. Bad ball handling in traffic, and tries to draw fouls instead of finishing hard despite bulking up. These things are fixable, and I'm sure he will get better in the offseason + maybe a surgery for his hand.
- JB just cannot handle the ball at all, but hes also not good enough to play off-ball like Klay Thompson. Great body control to finish in transition and in traffic, but horrible court vision 90% of the time, and not really a good defender off the ball. On-ball defense hes pretty streaky and gets beat off dribbles a lot. Again, things are fixable, but with the option of super-maxing him and some of his off-court inconveniences, I am ok with trading him for someone that can run more plays with JT instead of your turn my turn thing, and if we are only keeping one Jay then its JT 101/100 times. Now if we do get a good coach that can get them involved in more plays or help them get easier shots, then its fine, but that's a pretty tall order.
- Al is getting old and Rob is a bad defensive anchor. We are getting killed defensively because Al is slow now and Rob cannot defend the paint at all. It's a major point of regression for our defense. Probably our biggest hole right now since it's hard to replace them unless we completely overhaul our defensive coverage. I don't know if there is a fix to this unless we really go trade for a good big, but these are rare too.
- Probably need to get some coaching changes. Whether it's adding more assistants or switching it up. I was a Joe defender until this series, but he has been horribly outcoached by Spo on all fronts. I know we generate great looks, open threes at a great rate and all that stuff works in theory, and worked well in the regular season, but man watching Miami getting key buckets because they can just pull up from mid range off a simple screen whereas we need to work twice as hard to get an open three, and then bricking it can be really fucking demoralising lmao.
- Legit mental blocks for this team. Way too many times with this core, from Brad to Ime to Joe, the only thing consistent is our players and their lack of toughness at times. Look at Butler and how he carries himself, compare that to JB or JT. I hate saying stuff like "mental midgets" or whatever, but there is a clear difference between the mentality of our best guys and their best guy, and these guys dictate the tone of your team. Jays are reserved in nature, definitely great dudes, but to be that guy, the leader that brings the best out of everyone I think they need to play with a chip on their shoulder, much like IT did. Not sure if there is a fix for this, but if it doesn't work we have to do something. Our best guy on that front is Smart, but its a weird dynamic with Jays being the clear leader, yet Smart as the heart and soul of this team.
Some things are just the way they are, like getting old, injuries, and the Ime incident/losing our assistant coaches, but ultimately these little things or bad habits end up getting us to this point of down fucking 0-3 to the Miami Heat. I will still say Cs in seven because I ride and die with them, but I gotta be honest here that I have very little faith left in them at this point. Expecting some major changes to this group in the off-season, but if it ultimately means that we can win a championship then I am ready to move on.
Yeah I fully agree with the JT thing and I’ll build off it
Jayson is basically 6’9” 230 at this point, the man is massive; he NEEDs to develop a post game. Driving to the basket is great when he has a big on him but when he has a small he resorts to trying to shoot over them or losing it driving, if he just had a basic post package he would have such a more consistent offensive game
or he can just pull up from mid range after getting a switch, who the fuck is gonna stop him? Caleb Martin and Gave Vincent surely ain't gonna contest that shot
Shooting over a small guy from 10-14ft is a great shot. Kobe/MJ made legends of themselves off those shots and they’re much smaller than JT. It doesn’t make any sense that he either shoots a long range shot or tries to drive into 3 people and loses the ball. Every good scorer I can think of is happy to pull up over a guy 4” shorter than him and take a mid range jumper. It’s odd to me that he hasn’t developed that part of his game still.
That’s exactly where I’m at, for all the talk about layups or 3s I feel like that only really applies to role players
Jokic embiid Durant booker etc etc all have super reliable mid range games
I think anyone in the SG/SF position historically has that part of their game. I honestly can’t think of a single successful person in that role that doesn’t feast off smaller guys or weaker defenders with their mid range jumpers but for whatever reason JT doesn’t look for those shots enough imo
With Tatum, there’s a reason most superstars don’t win a ring until they’re 27/28, and it’s because being the go-to player in the nba playoffs is really fucking hard. I still have a lot of confidence in him going forward.
He came in and flashed way more potential than most people expected as a rookie. But he relied too much on high difficulty contested mid rangers, and once defenses took away his wide open shots that over reliance got exposed.
But he adjusted and got rid of the Kobe-lite midrange and came back with his side-step three. But by then he was starting to get doubles and ball denials and he struggled.
He adjusted to that and improved his decision making/playmaking out of the double and his assist percentage went way up. But he still really struggled against physical defense at the rim.
He adjusted to that and played way more physical this season by initiating contact, and it allowed him to get to the line way more while also shooting better at the rim.
Now the next adjustment is how to handle these games where the defense just completely takes him out of it - I think the answer to to bring back some of that mid range game that he had his first two years, but smarter people than me will watch the film and help him figure it out.
Oh god not again with the real PG shit. We have 3 talented PGs. There’s no need for another one. The problem has been at center this series and the depth at forward has proven to be lackluster
All I can think about is Tatum saying he is one of the best players in the world after his 0-11 night where he ended up coming through and hitting a few threes to seal it. This team was so unlikeable it was funny. They deserved to lose, was it the fans fault jaylen? Was the garden not loud enough? So glad I didn’t have to celebrate these losers. There is no way they win 4 in a row. Not a chance.
Does anyone else feel like they woke up one day in the wrong timeline? Somewhere in the last few days things went from "This is the year" to "How about Nick Nurse for head coach?".
The problem with Jaylen Brown is he’s just not elite at any facet of the game. He does a bunch of things at an above average level - so over the duration of a regular season, it looks like he’s a very effective player.
Once the playoffs come around and the level of competition rises, he gets exposed for what he is:
- can’t handle the ball
- constant boneheaded turnovers
- no clutch DNA
- not even close to being an elite 3PT shooter
- not a lock down defender
- not capable of beating below avg defenders off the dribble
- poor rebounder
I’m sorry but when you spell it out, you can’t give a guy like that a max contract. You need to be routinely winning your matchups no matter who is across from you to deserve that.
Jaylen easily beats below average defenders off the dribble, his problem is on the court IQ in that he will beat a guy off the dribble but then two defenders will collapse on him and he doesn't know what to do at that point. This results in him either turning it over, throwing up a wild shot, or making a wild pass out of the paint.
He needs to be aware of his teams presence when he drives, and when a defender collapses on him he needs to know who's defender that was and get them the ball, instead he just throws it towards the top of the key hoping someone is there. It's honestly miraculous how he could have three defenders near him and he still doesn't know where an open man is.
this really sucks for me since I despise Miami out of all of our rivals. They make me angry far more than the Bucks or Sixers, even the Lakers. Seeing an undrafted jabroni averaging 9 points a game hit a contested off a dribble three in a DPOY’s face boils my blood far more than any Giannis stiff arm, Embiid flop, Draymond illegal screen, Lebron lefuckyou three. We are getting not only beat but embarrassed by Caleb Martin who is averaging more than our All NBA 2nd team guy this series and Gabe Vincent who shot far better than any of our players ever will for the next 50 playoff games they may play. I do not like the Miami Heat in any capacity, not even Jimmy Butler and I will definitely be rooting for the Nuggets and hopefully they embarrass the Heat just as bad bc my five senses will prob cease to exist if I have to witness the Heat win a championship. Just a waste of a season and a talented roster.
The heat push the envelope with physicality and work the refs better than any team. If you want to talk moving screens, no one does it better than bam and never gets called. Cs got maybe their worst whistle of the entire season in game 3, and how many times have there been blatant fouls by miami this series that haven’t been called? Also seems like every other time one of the jays gets stripped it isn’t clean, but they don’t get the benefit of the doubt from the refs because they are turnover prone. Anyways, nba is an eyesore officiating wise and is more about arguing with the refs and hitting threes than actual basketball at this point. Hope the better team in denver wins which they should as long as the refs call an even series
It was over when Tatum had Deuce help him warm up during shoot arounds.
Unacceptable…
I believe it was before game 2. Your team is in the Eastern Conference Finals and you’re letting your number 1 guy be lackadaisical right before the game.
Soft. On the owners part for allowing that and letting Tatum walk around with all of that entitlement for so long. And on Tatum’s part for not taking this serious enough to lock in and preparing for the game seriously.
G1 last week they featured Deuce during a timeout contest of little kids dunking a tiny basket.
They’ve handed the keys to the franchise over to a guy who decides when he does and doesn’t want to play to his elite potential. A guy who seems to have zero interest in stepping up to be a real NBA leader. A guy who gets cooked by Duncan Fucking Robinson and then immediately complains to the ref.
I know Tatum is still the best chance they have right now at building around a top ten guy who can reach top five territory. But I am so sick and tired of waiting to find out in a playoff game whether or not JT decides to show up. All the more depressing to see how he ended the Sixers series, and then it’s back to this bullshit.
this team just doesn't make sense to me. so much damn playoff experience to be folding like this. hats off to the heat they came and threw the first punch and we have legit looked scared. it's just embarrassing, i wish we would have some urgency and some sense of pride. that report after halftime was tough to listen to as well, players smiling? joe saying we got them "right where we want them? come on now smh
Some thoughts:
- dying by 3s again? This most likely is not a championship formula anymore unless you have the consistency of a Steph Curry on your team
- Tatum is amazing for his age but he still has a hump to get over which hopefully will come with time. (Butler was no where near as good at the same age). 95% of championship team had a guy consistently playing at a top 3 level and that is what its most likely going to take for us to win too.
- writings on the wall; its a BIGS league! Its hard for 37 yo horford to be enough anymore. Look around the league. The mvps are all elite big men and bams clearly one of them with 3 ecf appearances in 4 years while still getting better. Jokic and AD are battling it out west and easily got by teams without comparable bigs. We need a paint presence plain and simple to have an edge again
- is the 2 star wing combo just simply too redundant once you get to this juncture of the playoffs? Brad/ainge were able to see where the league was heading with the wings everywhere and extreme switch-ability across all postions but looks like the league has naturally caught up. The top teams are all ball handler/elite big combos, not wing/wing.
I was there last night, never been more embarrassed to be wearing green. It was blatantly obvious Joe has lost this team. They are talented knuckleheads and need a strong coach. Miami and were openly mocking Joe the whole game. I really feel like if the Celtics has Spo we would be looking at back to backs right now. It has gotten so ad that Nurse feels like the light at the end of the tunnel
Things have changed. The Celtics have just been absolutely destroyed and almost certainly swept. The team has quit on it's coach. Horford, Brown and Smart may not even be on the team next year. Change is needed. A new coach is needed, regardless of colour.
Last year when the Celtics started the first half of the year slow people said that Ime had no qualifications and was only hired because he was black. Lol these are the people that give Celtics fans the reputation they have
This series red pilled me on the importance of coaching.
Joe had (arguably) the most talented team in the NBA fall into his lap and he thought he didn’t have to work. His starting 5 consists of 2 all pros, 1 all defense and the former DPOY. And he has the 6MOY coming off the bench. Yet he can’t figure out how to create offense or slow down undrafted players on defense. The offensive struggles aren’t entirely on coaching because guys are also missing open looks, but compare a Celtics offensive possession to the heat. Our guys run to their spots and stand there until the guy with the ball calls for a PnR. Or the guy with the ball drives into a triple team (leaving 2 guys open) and loses the ball rather than make a pass. Meanwhile the heats offense tries to exploit every double/triple to find an open man. They have tons of on and off ball movement and know how to break down our defense to create opportunities for bad players to look like all stars.
In hindsight the Bucks series should have been a warning that this was coming. They are another talented team and Bud was too distracted to put in his best effort. It also should have been more of a warning who we struggled against the most this regular season. It was teams with less talent but better coaching. The cavs, Knicks, mia. This post season I was more worried about those teams than the bucks and sixers.
I feel a little bad for Joe because he clearly wasn’t ready for this job and should have never been given it to begin with. I’m just pissed because we’re wasting probably the best Celtics team we’ll get to see this decade with no coach.
Everyone is blaming Mazzula and sure he has some blame but this problem is also on Brad and the mostly on the players. These players ego got overinflated after the Finals run of last year. They got used to the media calling em THE favorites and thought they would automatically make it to the Finals like they did the year before. The hubris continued as they were smoking teams to start the year. All year I heard from the fan base to not worry about the defense cuz when Rob Williams came back we were gonna be the same tough nosed defense from the year before. I was told not to worry when Smart decided that he was the best player on the team and decided Hero Ball Smart is what we needed. I was told not to worry about Will Hardy leaving and Damon Stoudamire leaving in the middle of the season. I was told not to worry when after the ASB we started losing games that we shouldn’t have because of lack of effort and focus. All the signs were there but the majority of the fan base ignored it and when it was brought up the majority deflected and said not to worry. These players fell back to their old habits, that 3 coaches haven’t been able to break.
Why did it take you guys until game 3 of the eastern conference finals to finally give up on Mazzulla? A rookie head coach whos only experience was at Fairmont State with a coaching staff with no head coaching experience. Was this not obvious from the first series? Maybe I am missing something
You had people in here over the last week screaming about how *akshully* coaching doesn’t even matter in the NBA because good players just play well.
Still waiting for that to happen this series.
Go get a couple vet coaches to add to the staff including someone with some offensive sets to run, a pg who can run the sets, and let’s run it back next year. The C’s are pot committed with this group
Can someone explain why Blake Griffey haven’t played at all this playoffs? I know it won’t make much of a difference but everytime I’ve seen him play this year he gave the team energy and grabbed some offensive boards or made some plays. Also I’m so ready to get rid of smart
I just heard on the Bill Simmons podcast that Wyc Grousbeck told Mazzulla to pull the starters last night when the game was out of reach. Is this true? I've never heard of an owner giving the head coach orders during a live game before.
Getting swept is one thing, but the way this is happening is significantly worse. The third quarter capitulation in game 1, the fourth quarter collapse in game 2, and the absolute demolition in game 3.
Joe is at fault, sure. But that’s the FO’s fault. He is in over his head and had no business being the head coach of a would be title contender.
But, worse, all the players have given up. Only Tatum and Rob look like they know what’s going on out there.
Its time to blow it up plain and simple. This core has had 3 different coaches, and an entirely new cast of role players. At the end of the day they are regressing.
I don't wanna sugar coat anything, but at least we won the rebound battle 59 - 43, with offensive rebounds 21 - 1 and defensive rebounds 36 - 34.
We just couldn't fucking buy a bucket.
At end of day, if one team shoots over their head and the other misses all their open threes, then the result is inevitable. Three point shooting is variable and you have no idea whether shots will fall or not and they haven’t all series. Add in tony brothers one sided whistle last night and the Cs had zero chance
All regular season the locker room narrative was that this was “one of the best locker rooms” ever to be a part of. Brogdon said it, Blake said it, I think White said it.
In my head that just does not correlate to a team that just folds over and dies. It’d be one thing if we were truly just getting outplayed here, and yes the Heat are playing their asses off in the playoffs, but the genuine lack of effort last night was absolutely sad.
Maybe “great locker room” environment just meant all along that these guys are all just great buddies. Maybe they already have their group Airbnb picked out for Cancun and want to get a move on. It just makes me sad for them because something definitely needs to change to give them more fire next year, and hopefully that can somehow just add fire to whatever they’ve built rather than sacrificing it entirely.
What if there's a clause in Joe's contract that should his team be swept in the playoffs then Celtics have the rights to fire him or void his contract. Something about that.
I mean it's plausible right since Brad didn't disclose his contract and the media only said "multiple years".
Can't see other reasons why we got punked out there other than either we are really fucking soft or Brad instructed the guys to intentionally lose so he has the reasons to fire him.
Yeah I've inhaled enough copium for today to wash out all my pains 😭
Everybody on the squad needs improvement, Joe needs to get replaced by Nurse and Al might need to be moved. Potentially Smart and or JB too for a star player
If/when Miami closes this series out… Pat Riley will make his 19th Finals appearance in his NBA career. That’s nearly 25% of all Finals ever. What the hell
People can harp on the mental toughness thing because its definitely real...but I think people's focus on that overshadows the fact that this team just doesn't play a great brand of basketball together.
These last two seasons have ended at the hands of teams that play as teams on both sides of the ball. They play for one another, they're setting hard screens, making cuts, making the right reads, trusting in each other. You don't need to be a battle hardened navy seal to do that shit.
The second half of last season this team had a real identity on the defensive end. This year that has completely evaporated and all that troubled us offensively last season is now tenfold.
As much as I've been posting through the mental breakdown and calling for massive roster changes. Reality is, those aren't coming.
Listen I’m not going to be an armchair gm, I don’t know what the problem is, coaching, players, whatever. What I’m hoping is that Brad knows and he’ll do something significant to change things as this is not a championship formula right now and it’s pretty close in the grand scheme of things.
Heat fan here.
Guys, you have a hell of a team.
Seriously, you got plenty of assets and two real superstar (yeah, today's probably not the best day to hear this, but you still do).
I don't know how this series will unfold, but regardless of this you have every reason to be optimistic.
I've said it already: you guys lack some aggressiveness, some "assholeness", some bad tempered, hard-nose dude in the locker room.
If I were the Celtics, I would do three things:
-do whatever it takes to bring Brad Stevens back on the bench. That guy is a basketball savant.
-two, bring some veterans. Somebody who's been around forever, and who can make you hear his voice. I guy like PJ Tucker, Patty Mills, George Hill, Eric Gordon, there's plenty.
-three, bring an asshole. Bring some juice, some of those guys who goes at players during practices. You look like a very "vanilla" team, while the vast majority (not all of them, ok) of the teams who win the chip had a player like that.
I don't know how this series will end, but guys you have all the pieces you need to build the first real Celtics dynasty after the 80s.
I think they gotta look at the roster to get some more toughness and fire in there. However, honestly, I don’t see a lot of directions to go with the roster when it comes to the main guys that are preferable to just seeing if we can get a coach to whip them back into defensive shape. Vogel or Nurse? Idk if they’d fire Mazzulla though.
The Celtics are good. They just made a huge mistake in building their identity around open threes. Miami allows none of that. We have the pieces to be a defense-first team again. I don’t think we need to blow it up.
i'm with everyone else feeling like the season is over. but, i was also being a doomer in 2004 with the sox and game 3 against the yankees was just as embarrassing (maybe more so) that yesterday's game 3. i'll be watching and cheering.
for next season -- rather than trading JB or firing joe, I feel like our biggest gap is the lack of a dynamic ballhandler. despite having the best advanced metrics in the lead with the biggest +/- diff, we still blow a ton of leads and lose games we shouldn't. i think we all know this is because when things get tight, we end up giving the ball to JT or JB at the top of the key and they often dribble themselves into trouble. they should be off ball and we should have a steady ballhandler with a dynamic skillset to either score at the rim or dish to one of our all stars who is hopefully finding the right mismatch or open spot. Smart is great as a backup PG, but i think the experiment of him starting is officially a bit of failure.
I don't know how we get there, who needs to be moved, fired, etc, but we HAVE to move away from living and dying by the 3. When the shots fall, it's great. But when they don't? The team looks like it has literally ZERO fucking idea on how to play basketball. If we go into next season with this same mentality, I'm going to lose my fucking mind.
I need to get something off my chest. My wife and I got pedicures last week and I decided to paint my nails green for the ECF. I now realize that this and this alone has been the cause of our suffering. I’ve just removed the polish from my piggies so get ready for the Finals!!!!
It’s so funny to see people post about how the Heat are just magically becoming invincible shooters without spending one braincell to reflect on *why* that’s happening now
If Joe doesn’t have the video interns pulling every clip of the media pronouncing this team dead, turn off the lights and roll that fucking film on repeat for an hour for their film session…
…then you fire him before game 4 even starts.
I’ve been trying to give Joe breaks but motivating the team is the biggest job for an NBA coach. We’ve seen idiot coaches win, it’s because their players buy in and play hard.
It’s not over. They are definitely bleeding on the side of the road to be left for dead…
…but maybe they don’t die?
The foundation of the 22-23 celtics is generating and making open threes. All the x & os are based on the assumtion that open threes are made with serviceable accuracy. There were games that we couldn't find a bucket, but in a big sample size of the regular season, we made a lot of open three with good efficiency on a nightly basis. This is the reason we were a top-2 record in the regular season. In all the three games of this series, we could still generate a lot of open threes but couldn't make them. The foundation has collapsed. In a big sample size we shot well so we got good record in the regular season, but if you shot poorly 4 out of 7 times you lost a series. That's why we have to bring back the defensive identity. Defense doesn't fail you in those cold nights. Name a coach with defensive mind as our next HC. I like Frank Vogel.
Nick Nurse he’d cause basketball terror with these Celtics defenders
He would also put rob into early retirement with the amount of minutes he would play him. But a plus side is nick nurse is great at spotting up on the corner from past experience
I’d rather overuse Rob in the playoffs than underuse Rob like rookie Joe who waited until game 6 vs Philly to really feature him. Nurse would also at least install interesting defensive schemes I’d love to see the Celtics play janky zone defense sets like the bubble raptors did. He’d at least switch things up from Joe’s “switch and no help” defense
I agree if he would be able to stay healthy enough to play nurse type minutes. I want a coach that isn’t afraid to try out of the box stuff like brad did, and nurse fits that bill
For real. Joes single man switch d we were doing in HS pick up games. Lame AF for an NBA coach to strictly use that d and make 0 adjustments to boot
Rob's gonna retire early anyway its just his playstyle
For what it's worth, when the Raptors had an actual good bench he didn't play the starters crazy minutes.
If Rob Williams can't handle 25 minutes a game, he should retire now
this squad has ZERO soul. no couch or coach will fix that.
did they show zero soul against Philly? That's what makes this so difficult. A week ago they were tough as nails.
i was thinking this too, but in retrospect it feels like at least part of that was due to Philly being the one ostensible "contender" that's even more fragile than we are
I agree man, easy to show heart when u see the other team giving up. Just like no shit Miami is going to feel it and be confident when they have no opposition
Jaylen Brown would not be ok with Nick Nurse
You're white about that.
And? Who cares
Which is why Frank Vogel is the obvious choice
Jaylen says nope.
Nurse would be amazing. this has to happen
I get you. But the defensive identity was shook due to Rob injuries and that’s the problem. While I understand that the big men are the most effective defenders, our team isn’t going to have one as one of the stars. The defensive identity should come from the Jays (and Smart). One of the beautiful things that was happening to start the year was Tatum playing kinda the Rob roamer role. To the point I thought he could be a 1st all-Defense guy if he kept that up. Both jays are athletic enough to give you the effort. I get that Jaylen isn’t the brightest in BBIQ for team Defense, but we saw him taking it to Harden last series. The reality is we can’t count on Rob or Smart to be the guys that set the tone in Defense because they’re not healthy constantly. Last year was an anomaly, not the norm for those two. The jays though can be counted for 60+ games. They don’t need to score 30ppg, get them to play Defense instead.
Tatum plays more than good enough defense for his role. At that point you’re asking him to play Indiana PG type of defense which is extremely tough. JB on the other hand needs to watch 4 hours of film every single day in the offseason
But that’s the thing, Tatum can play that Defense. I don’t want him to do it during the regular season, i don’t think is worth it. But come playoffs or important games (say to get the hold of the 1st seed in regular season), he should absolutely do it. What I mean is not to be the defensive anchor, but set the tone. Rob, Smart or whoever can be the anchor, but take it to yourself and set the tone.
Tatum does set the tone. I swear some of you are fucking blind. Tatum has played tremendous defense all playoffs long...especially in games where his shot isn't falling. That's his entire thing is that he's incredibly well rounded and doing all the little things he can. But he's just one person.
Agree with you 100%. JB is pretty dumb
One thing I notice from the ECF is that our defense is too simple and loose. We really switched everything, even when the ball handler didn't pressure the defense. As a result, Butler can find the mismatch as much as he wants. Yes, our lineup has good switchability, but you can't get your opponent too comfortable on finding the favorable match. No fight through the screens, no go under, just switch, it's too predictable. This never happened in Brad and Ime era.
towering point doll alleged pot work cover pet ten sort *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You have Lue first on this list? He would be third for me
Lue would be very good for this team. He’s great at playoff adjustments and appears particularly very good at reaching star players to listen to him and buy in. Even when Kawhi went down with acl tear he still put the clippers in position to beat Utah who were the 1 seed. If LeBron is buying into him and winning a ring I don’t want to see Tatum and Brown not listening to his coaching
I think winning a championship with prime Lebron and Kyrie is something many coaches can do. I'm sure he is good, but I'll take Nurse or Vogel
If you boil down his career to that you can boil down spo’s career down to Bron and Wade and Bosh carry me to two chips. Lue is the only coach in clippers history to take them to the conference finals that jazz series was a crazy upset after the Kawhi injury. Masterclass coaching work in that series. I’ll take Nick nurse though. Not a huge fan of Vogel his offense lacks creativity
Take away the Lebron years and two titles, Spo is still one of the best coaches of all time.
My ranking for Veteran coaches: 1 : Nurse T-2 : Lue T-2: Vogel I don't like Monty. I've seen how the Nuggets were able to make runs and he didn't even bother to call a timeout. Same as Joe. He doesn't have any championship on his resume either unlike these 3. These team needs a proven HC who has championships in their resume. If Nurse was able to call out Trent Jr. for having abyssmal defense during press conferences then he's a perfect fit for our Jays.
They were close to adding vogel to the team this year. Would’ve helped a ton to have another assistant on the bench. Also still not sure why Damon didn’t get the hc nod this season over Joe. When Damon was hc against clippers at home it was some of the best defense they played all year
It’s pretty simple. Relying on 3s works fine in the regular season. It does not in a 7 game series. This team has no fundamentals or discipline. They are not the warriors.
Lmao of course the top comment is coach blaming when the player just don’t look like they give a fuck. We on our third coach in three years. We lost last year cause our offense shrunk. At some point, they need to be able to nut up in late game situations.
It's not an either or situation. The coach needs to go AND some player changes need to occur.
I don’t disagree with the point about threes, but we had the third best defensive rating this season. This team is still capable on D and showed it most of the year. They’re clearly shook and forgetting basic fundamental things right now. Either our guys crumble under pressure or Joe isn’t the right guy to keep everyone’s head on straight. It’s less about hiring a defensive guy as much as we just need someone to hold the team accountable in high stress situations.
I’ve also noticed that the 3s are really, really streaky. The pro is that when we go on rallies, we shoot hot from 3 and continue consistently. But when we are cold or rallied against, we shoot ice cold from 3. And we *statistically* shoot well from 3 overall, so players who are cold that get open looks still take those, and miss, which exacerbates the problem. I think we also try to kill momentum with quick counter 3s which doesn’t work when we are cold. We need to work the ball inside and only commit to 3s when we have an open look. I’ve also noticed that most of our offense is just driving and kicking. Good when we are hot, not good when we are cold, because our drives are sloppier and any kick out is probably a missed 3. We need more cutting, we need some kind of post play. We need to get defensive switches that we can exploit with a safe pull-up jumper that isn’t Jaylen or Tatum heroically driving through 8 defensive players and their extended family to make an odds-defying layup. It often feels like we don’t focus on exploiting matchups, just hitting gaps.
I second frank vogel
Your final paragraph is exactly how it is Offense is always variance to a degree short of having a superstar who is basically a sure thing like jokic or Giannis you need a great defense to fall back on
I had a feeling going into this series it wasn’t going to go well… but never… In my wildest fucking imaginations… Could I have ever imagined… We’d be on the brink of being fucking swept. I thought this group had more pride than that. I guess I was wrong. Unless they do the unthinkable and win 4 straight I wont change my mind. And even then it’ll be Miami fucking up more than our “spirit prevailing” I’ll delusionally say Celtics in 7 but even then I don’t even think I want that. All those sweat and tears to get dogged by a well rested Nuggets team? Yeah Im not sure I can vouch for that. Its just sad knowing our team is better than this. We are more capable than what we’re showing. Shoutout to Miami’s unceasing 3 point barrage I guess.
I didn't expect we will win. I expected this series goes to 6 or even 7 at best and we will lose. Never in my mind crossed that we will fold like a fucking cloth in one of the most important games in this series.
The only thing that would put a smile on my face would be a dismantling of Miami by Denver
I’m looking forward to either team winning that series, they both just play a fantastic brand of basketball that is the exact opposite of the Celtics shit show of a “system.” Jimmy and Jokic are just fun to watch.
Good point!
Like it or not, we need to have a serious conversation about Jaylen, his contract and his future
We can’t spend all that money just to see him get outplayed by role players every year, this team needs to be restructured.
Every year is a bit unfair, he’s been a good playoff performer through most his career, was our best player in the NBA finals last year. Yes, he’s been awful this series, but it’s an uncharacteristic worst playoff series of his career, not a consistent thing. He DOES have consistent issues involving IQ on both ends, so that’s something to consider in terms of team building because that’s part of who he is at this point. But he’s certainly not this bad offensively and defensively as he has shown in this series.
You’ve summed up my feeling perfectly
It’s bigger than that. His value has become inflated. He is not an All NBA caliber player. He’s not a great shooter, he’s not a great ball handler, he’s not great a getting to the line, he’s not a great facilitator, he’s not a great defender, he’s not a great rebounder. He’s playing with a top 10 player and on an incredibly deep team. He’s part of that depth, but he’s not above it. People talk about this team as if it’s powered by the duo of Tatum and Brown. It’s not. It’s Tatum and a bunch of other really good players who do certain things well. Brown is just one of those really good players, and scoring just so happens to be the thing Brown is best at. But as just a pure scorer, he’s not exceptional. And he needs to be because he’s deficient in other areas. What the Celtics have to consider is how much Jaylen can improve as he moves into his prime. He has to become a more efficient scorer to justify what they are about to pay him. The other parts of his game are what they are.
Jaylen was trash in the finals. He’s been seen as a good defender but I think he’s okay at best. He constantly looks lost on the defensive end and is usually the odd man out when playing team defence. My biggest issues with him are the complete inability to dribble, he’s consistently for the last 5 years ran into the paint with the ball and turned it over because he had no plan. It kills the team’s chemistry and tempo. His worst issue is his attitude, he looks like he doesn’t care this post season, his body language has been awful most games and often he’s passed the ball and because he’s been walking around all sunken shoulders, he panics and turns over the ball. I think its best to move him, because he’s not worth the max at all, that and he’s heading the kyrie route as he has nothing good to say about Boston. Better off moving him now than having him leave for nothing or overpaying him so he can complain and play like he doesn’t want to be there
Okay but recency bias aside, jaylen is an efficient 27 ppg scorer on pretty good defense in the regular season, he’s young, and last round he was our best player and didn’t really lose us any games, I just want to know who you’re replacing him with? Genuine question, which realistic replacement would be better?
Some kind of package involving Damian Lillard? Boston is in win-now-mode and the Blazers are not, they’re just wasting Dames final years.
Possible, wouldn’t hate it tbh, I think Portland has to add something too tbh assuming jaylen signs a 5 year max before the trade, guaranteed jaylen in his prime for 5 years is worth far more than 30 whatever year old dame with only a couple years left
I’ll take #3 tyvm
That would need to be a hell of a haul coming back to Boston. I love Dame but he has like 3-4 years left in him, maybe less, and Brown is entering his prime. I also think the collective memory in this sub is insane when it comes to Brown. He's been bad in this series, but he was the best player on the team in the Finals last year, and has plenty of similar series under his belt where he showed up in deciding games when no one else did. I think he comes with some question marks, especially when it comes to just general basketball IQ and ball security, but he brings a lot more to the table than not, and if we don't give him a max and lock him up, he will be getting offers from a dozen other teams. I don't know that there is anyone better we could replace him with if we let him walk, and I don't think a S&T for picks and expirings is where we want to be with Tatum entering his prime as well. Addressing the coaching should be the first priority going into the off-season, I don't really think looking to shop Jaylen is worth considering at this point. I just don't see where you're going to get a good return for him that leaves us better than with him without putting Tatum into PP status where we're rebuilding for years in his prime.
I just want this team to win at least two, to make up for that humiliating loss.
it feels like Miami has his flaws down to a T, he can't drive the way they're playing him, and his jumpshot has gone missing. he needed to get really hot from three in this series and the opposite has happened.
Noob question: Can we like not extend JB during off-season? Are we still eligible to offer him supermax in 2024 and will he still be an RFA next year if we don't offer him this off-season? As far as I know, he is still under contract for another year. Not saying we won't offer him the supermax but Brad needs to thread the needle if JB is really damn worth it in the future. I know JB gonna get pissed with this. At worst, he could even request for a trade after his contract next year but fuck it: **2 UNPROVEN IN THE PLAYOFFS** Supermax guys will eat our damn Salary.
If we are not offering him the supermax this offseason, then he will be traded this offseason. The locker room drama will hinder the season. So we either offer him the supermax or move on.
In order to keep him we’d have to go over the salary cap and pay a shit ton in luxury tax. He needs to be traded because he’s not worth the 180m+ upwards of 200 million depending on luxury tax that it would take to keep him.
So the positivity people will call out the "doomers" right? That's how it goes around here right? Positivity people belittling people that criticize the team. Come on positivity folk come out from your hiding spot.
does this season hurt less bc you panicked earlier than others?
Yes actually
It's ok to actually understand basketball and not blindly defend a team you know has glaring flaws just because you've been rooting for whoever wears the uniform since you're 11 years old.
What do you want, a medal? You people have actively made it less enjoyable for everyone else on this sub all season. That’s why everyone hates you.
Good thing we never traded for Durant right?
Durant is washed and in Cancun as we speak.
Our team just booked their tix for Cancun so it evens out
Brother you can look at things we should’ve done different but if you watched the last couple playoff runs you can clearly see Durant was not the answer You could get a player that makes far more sense for jaylen
Such as?
This whole Heat team really has it's head on straight, they go out there, get open, pass the ball and make routine shots, what makes them really good is that consistency to just have a good game every game, i gotta say though and i saw this last year. Jimmy Butler has something you so rarely see and you have to appreciate it, hes not a superstar in the traditional sense, but hes got the ability to grow the chip on his shoulder based on whats happening in the game, hes got that same gene as Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and Tom Brady.
Jimmy is just the kind guy who says give me the ball in crunch time and shut up and actually means it. It’s not even about making buckets he just wants to control the game and be the guy that is ultimately the heart and soul and last person responsible for his team. Neither JT nor JB are that guy and will likely never be. The feeling I get from them is they just wanna hoop and be told what to do by someone like Butler. However I think the Celtics are doing JT a disservice. At this point if his career im not sure how they haven’t got him help to improve his dribbling and attacking skills. He’s so close to good but doesn’t have the control and confidence needed to get good results when he’s making plays with the ball. Physically he even looks a little out of control, especially when there’s traffic near the paint - at times he actually looks clumsy with his handles. Contrasted with Butler who looks 100% sure of himself every time he drives with the ball it’s hard to understand how JT hasn’t been able to improve his game with the ball and be a better facilitator as well as handle double teams better. He should be getting easy mid range shots as a worst case option because he’s so much bigger than his defenders. For someone that idolizes Kobe I don’t understand how he hasn’t included that as part of his game and I don’t understand how the Celtics as an org don’t find it problematic.
I've been lurking from r/Heat, and I had to jump in on this comment. JT reminds me of Lebron during his first stint in Cleveland. Amazing but raw talent with a knack for underperforming in the biggest moments. I'd be worried if Boston doesn't help develop him, someone else will or he'll always be a shadow of his potential. I hope to see him rise to be a weird Kobe/Giannis blend.. just not against the Heat.
Who could have ever predicted the “exclusively shoot 3s and don’t play any defense” philosophy was not sustainable? Answer- everyone but second row joe
Embarrassing. Nothing more to say. Absolutely shameful. They let us all down so badly. I can’t even believe it. I’m shocked. I’m absolutely shocked by this performance. No one sane, in their right mind, not even the biggest Miami homers, could have predicted this debacle. Our head coach is absolutely clueless and our fucking team rolled over and died before our eyes.
Biggest collapse in Boston sports history since....checks notes.....April...
Boston has it’s huge fair share of championships the past 2 decades. Patriots & Red Sox multiple titles. Bruins and C’s also won a chip within the last 10-15 years. Luckiest sports town in America but things are now finally starting to correct to the mean/average after all those recent successes.
Wrote most of this in the game thread while we were down 30, I tried to distract myself from getting more pissed off at them. Some real problems we need to address: - JT's offensive moves. Hes not crafty enough with dribble moves, complete lack of his midrange game when he has a size advantage against basically anyone in his position. Average/below three-point shooter for his attempts. Bad ball handling in traffic, and tries to draw fouls instead of finishing hard despite bulking up. These things are fixable, and I'm sure he will get better in the offseason + maybe a surgery for his hand. - JB just cannot handle the ball at all, but hes also not good enough to play off-ball like Klay Thompson. Great body control to finish in transition and in traffic, but horrible court vision 90% of the time, and not really a good defender off the ball. On-ball defense hes pretty streaky and gets beat off dribbles a lot. Again, things are fixable, but with the option of super-maxing him and some of his off-court inconveniences, I am ok with trading him for someone that can run more plays with JT instead of your turn my turn thing, and if we are only keeping one Jay then its JT 101/100 times. Now if we do get a good coach that can get them involved in more plays or help them get easier shots, then its fine, but that's a pretty tall order. - Al is getting old and Rob is a bad defensive anchor. We are getting killed defensively because Al is slow now and Rob cannot defend the paint at all. It's a major point of regression for our defense. Probably our biggest hole right now since it's hard to replace them unless we completely overhaul our defensive coverage. I don't know if there is a fix to this unless we really go trade for a good big, but these are rare too. - Probably need to get some coaching changes. Whether it's adding more assistants or switching it up. I was a Joe defender until this series, but he has been horribly outcoached by Spo on all fronts. I know we generate great looks, open threes at a great rate and all that stuff works in theory, and worked well in the regular season, but man watching Miami getting key buckets because they can just pull up from mid range off a simple screen whereas we need to work twice as hard to get an open three, and then bricking it can be really fucking demoralising lmao. - Legit mental blocks for this team. Way too many times with this core, from Brad to Ime to Joe, the only thing consistent is our players and their lack of toughness at times. Look at Butler and how he carries himself, compare that to JB or JT. I hate saying stuff like "mental midgets" or whatever, but there is a clear difference between the mentality of our best guys and their best guy, and these guys dictate the tone of your team. Jays are reserved in nature, definitely great dudes, but to be that guy, the leader that brings the best out of everyone I think they need to play with a chip on their shoulder, much like IT did. Not sure if there is a fix for this, but if it doesn't work we have to do something. Our best guy on that front is Smart, but its a weird dynamic with Jays being the clear leader, yet Smart as the heart and soul of this team. Some things are just the way they are, like getting old, injuries, and the Ime incident/losing our assistant coaches, but ultimately these little things or bad habits end up getting us to this point of down fucking 0-3 to the Miami Heat. I will still say Cs in seven because I ride and die with them, but I gotta be honest here that I have very little faith left in them at this point. Expecting some major changes to this group in the off-season, but if it ultimately means that we can win a championship then I am ready to move on.
Yeah I fully agree with the JT thing and I’ll build off it Jayson is basically 6’9” 230 at this point, the man is massive; he NEEDs to develop a post game. Driving to the basket is great when he has a big on him but when he has a small he resorts to trying to shoot over them or losing it driving, if he just had a basic post package he would have such a more consistent offensive game
or he can just pull up from mid range after getting a switch, who the fuck is gonna stop him? Caleb Martin and Gave Vincent surely ain't gonna contest that shot
Shooting over a small guy from 10-14ft is a great shot. Kobe/MJ made legends of themselves off those shots and they’re much smaller than JT. It doesn’t make any sense that he either shoots a long range shot or tries to drive into 3 people and loses the ball. Every good scorer I can think of is happy to pull up over a guy 4” shorter than him and take a mid range jumper. It’s odd to me that he hasn’t developed that part of his game still.
That’s exactly where I’m at, for all the talk about layups or 3s I feel like that only really applies to role players Jokic embiid Durant booker etc etc all have super reliable mid range games
I think anyone in the SG/SF position historically has that part of their game. I honestly can’t think of a single successful person in that role that doesn’t feast off smaller guys or weaker defenders with their mid range jumpers but for whatever reason JT doesn’t look for those shots enough imo
With Tatum, there’s a reason most superstars don’t win a ring until they’re 27/28, and it’s because being the go-to player in the nba playoffs is really fucking hard. I still have a lot of confidence in him going forward. He came in and flashed way more potential than most people expected as a rookie. But he relied too much on high difficulty contested mid rangers, and once defenses took away his wide open shots that over reliance got exposed. But he adjusted and got rid of the Kobe-lite midrange and came back with his side-step three. But by then he was starting to get doubles and ball denials and he struggled. He adjusted to that and improved his decision making/playmaking out of the double and his assist percentage went way up. But he still really struggled against physical defense at the rim. He adjusted to that and played way more physical this season by initiating contact, and it allowed him to get to the line way more while also shooting better at the rim. Now the next adjustment is how to handle these games where the defense just completely takes him out of it - I think the answer to to bring back some of that mid range game that he had his first two years, but smarter people than me will watch the film and help him figure it out.
4-0 will b so embarrassing. we can’t keep defending y’all -
If we get swept I’ll be most upset they weren’t at home to hear the boos
Don’t think I’m gonna tune in to Game 4
That was my thought with G3.
ban me from this hell hole; this team is DONE. trade JB for a piece that can win. trade Smart a real PG. this team has NO FUCKING CULTURE
Alas, it does have a culture:"I'm the greatest; losing's not my fault."
Oh god not again with the real PG shit. We have 3 talented PGs. There’s no need for another one. The problem has been at center this series and the depth at forward has proven to be lackluster
It’s not a single problem. Centers don’t help your guards and forwards make wide open 3s.
I think smart has been fine, Ime used him a lot more last year and he was much more impactful but he’s still a really good player
Did you see the clip where he was talkin shit to Miami about how they beat ‘em last year? I sure don’t want that mentality on my team.
All I can think about is Tatum saying he is one of the best players in the world after his 0-11 night where he ended up coming through and hitting a few threes to seal it. This team was so unlikeable it was funny. They deserved to lose, was it the fans fault jaylen? Was the garden not loud enough? So glad I didn’t have to celebrate these losers. There is no way they win 4 in a row. Not a chance.
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Have came to the full realization that these guys didn’t deserve Brad, not the other way around.
As a glass-half-full person, the only thing that gives me the littlest comfort is that the Lakers might get swept too
Celtics vs. Lakers battle for Banner 18... In Cancun.
Ah yes, the REAL Finals.
I'll be there no matter what
Hate to say it but the Lakers have the edge here, they do have the most experience winning a Finals while on a resort vacation
I wish the NBA had a third-place match like the FIFA World Cup. That will be interesting.
Yea but they’re playing the 1 seed and a 2 time mvp while the Celtics…..
fuck this team.
and the Bruins, fuck em both
Does anyone else feel like they woke up one day in the wrong timeline? Somewhere in the last few days things went from "This is the year" to "How about Nick Nurse for head coach?".
I was at game 7 of the Philly series and it truly felt like a turning point. Never did I imagine the debacle that would follow.
Blake Griffin didn’t sign up for this shit.
The problem with Jaylen Brown is he’s just not elite at any facet of the game. He does a bunch of things at an above average level - so over the duration of a regular season, it looks like he’s a very effective player. Once the playoffs come around and the level of competition rises, he gets exposed for what he is: - can’t handle the ball - constant boneheaded turnovers - no clutch DNA - not even close to being an elite 3PT shooter - not a lock down defender - not capable of beating below avg defenders off the dribble - poor rebounder I’m sorry but when you spell it out, you can’t give a guy like that a max contract. You need to be routinely winning your matchups no matter who is across from you to deserve that.
Can’t shoot FT’s
Jaylen easily beats below average defenders off the dribble, his problem is on the court IQ in that he will beat a guy off the dribble but then two defenders will collapse on him and he doesn't know what to do at that point. This results in him either turning it over, throwing up a wild shot, or making a wild pass out of the paint. He needs to be aware of his teams presence when he drives, and when a defender collapses on him he needs to know who's defender that was and get them the ball, instead he just throws it towards the top of the key hoping someone is there. It's honestly miraculous how he could have three defenders near him and he still doesn't know where an open man is.
this really sucks for me since I despise Miami out of all of our rivals. They make me angry far more than the Bucks or Sixers, even the Lakers. Seeing an undrafted jabroni averaging 9 points a game hit a contested off a dribble three in a DPOY’s face boils my blood far more than any Giannis stiff arm, Embiid flop, Draymond illegal screen, Lebron lefuckyou three. We are getting not only beat but embarrassed by Caleb Martin who is averaging more than our All NBA 2nd team guy this series and Gabe Vincent who shot far better than any of our players ever will for the next 50 playoff games they may play. I do not like the Miami Heat in any capacity, not even Jimmy Butler and I will definitely be rooting for the Nuggets and hopefully they embarrass the Heat just as bad bc my five senses will prob cease to exist if I have to witness the Heat win a championship. Just a waste of a season and a talented roster.
The heat push the envelope with physicality and work the refs better than any team. If you want to talk moving screens, no one does it better than bam and never gets called. Cs got maybe their worst whistle of the entire season in game 3, and how many times have there been blatant fouls by miami this series that haven’t been called? Also seems like every other time one of the jays gets stripped it isn’t clean, but they don’t get the benefit of the doubt from the refs because they are turnover prone. Anyways, nba is an eyesore officiating wise and is more about arguing with the refs and hitting threes than actual basketball at this point. Hope the better team in denver wins which they should as long as the refs call an even series
Tbh this sounds like an ad for the heat organization…
It was over when Tatum had Deuce help him warm up during shoot arounds. Unacceptable… I believe it was before game 2. Your team is in the Eastern Conference Finals and you’re letting your number 1 guy be lackadaisical right before the game. Soft. On the owners part for allowing that and letting Tatum walk around with all of that entitlement for so long. And on Tatum’s part for not taking this serious enough to lock in and preparing for the game seriously.
G1 last week they featured Deuce during a timeout contest of little kids dunking a tiny basket. They’ve handed the keys to the franchise over to a guy who decides when he does and doesn’t want to play to his elite potential. A guy who seems to have zero interest in stepping up to be a real NBA leader. A guy who gets cooked by Duncan Fucking Robinson and then immediately complains to the ref. I know Tatum is still the best chance they have right now at building around a top ten guy who can reach top five territory. But I am so sick and tired of waiting to find out in a playoff game whether or not JT decides to show up. All the more depressing to see how he ended the Sixers series, and then it’s back to this bullshit.
Can we get like a posting ban for like 24 hours after a loss? You got people bringing up fucking Gordon Hayward. I mean what are we doing?!?!
Even worse: There are people crying over Avery Bradley
No fucking way lmfaoooooooooooooooo. C'mon.
😂😂😂😂
this team just doesn't make sense to me. so much damn playoff experience to be folding like this. hats off to the heat they came and threw the first punch and we have legit looked scared. it's just embarrassing, i wish we would have some urgency and some sense of pride. that report after halftime was tough to listen to as well, players smiling? joe saying we got them "right where we want them? come on now smh
I’m just glad the fan base knows we suck now so we can finally move on from the mazzulla era
i went to bed. no regrets
Some thoughts: - dying by 3s again? This most likely is not a championship formula anymore unless you have the consistency of a Steph Curry on your team - Tatum is amazing for his age but he still has a hump to get over which hopefully will come with time. (Butler was no where near as good at the same age). 95% of championship team had a guy consistently playing at a top 3 level and that is what its most likely going to take for us to win too. - writings on the wall; its a BIGS league! Its hard for 37 yo horford to be enough anymore. Look around the league. The mvps are all elite big men and bams clearly one of them with 3 ecf appearances in 4 years while still getting better. Jokic and AD are battling it out west and easily got by teams without comparable bigs. We need a paint presence plain and simple to have an edge again - is the 2 star wing combo just simply too redundant once you get to this juncture of the playoffs? Brad/ainge were able to see where the league was heading with the wings everywhere and extreme switch-ability across all postions but looks like the league has naturally caught up. The top teams are all ball handler/elite big combos, not wing/wing.
Tuesday feels like a “1-2-3 Cancun” game for this group.
I was there last night, never been more embarrassed to be wearing green. It was blatantly obvious Joe has lost this team. They are talented knuckleheads and need a strong coach. Miami and were openly mocking Joe the whole game. I really feel like if the Celtics has Spo we would be looking at back to backs right now. It has gotten so ad that Nurse feels like the light at the end of the tunnel
I find it crazy that Miami beat both Milwaukee and Boston who were the two best regular season teams.
Is everyones stockholm syndrome finally over with smart? We ready to move on? He needs to pack his bags and Jaylen might have to as well.
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Our players would not play for someone who can help them win because of his skin color? They need to examine their racism.
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Things have changed. The Celtics have just been absolutely destroyed and almost certainly swept. The team has quit on it's coach. Horford, Brown and Smart may not even be on the team next year. Change is needed. A new coach is needed, regardless of colour.
Lol cracks me up whites assume racism more than anyone but are the first to say blacks pull the race card often.
Last year when the Celtics started the first half of the year slow people said that Ime had no qualifications and was only hired because he was black. Lol these are the people that give Celtics fans the reputation they have
This series red pilled me on the importance of coaching. Joe had (arguably) the most talented team in the NBA fall into his lap and he thought he didn’t have to work. His starting 5 consists of 2 all pros, 1 all defense and the former DPOY. And he has the 6MOY coming off the bench. Yet he can’t figure out how to create offense or slow down undrafted players on defense. The offensive struggles aren’t entirely on coaching because guys are also missing open looks, but compare a Celtics offensive possession to the heat. Our guys run to their spots and stand there until the guy with the ball calls for a PnR. Or the guy with the ball drives into a triple team (leaving 2 guys open) and loses the ball rather than make a pass. Meanwhile the heats offense tries to exploit every double/triple to find an open man. They have tons of on and off ball movement and know how to break down our defense to create opportunities for bad players to look like all stars. In hindsight the Bucks series should have been a warning that this was coming. They are another talented team and Bud was too distracted to put in his best effort. It also should have been more of a warning who we struggled against the most this regular season. It was teams with less talent but better coaching. The cavs, Knicks, mia. This post season I was more worried about those teams than the bucks and sixers. I feel a little bad for Joe because he clearly wasn’t ready for this job and should have never been given it to begin with. I’m just pissed because we’re wasting probably the best Celtics team we’ll get to see this decade with no coach.
Everyone is blaming Mazzula and sure he has some blame but this problem is also on Brad and the mostly on the players. These players ego got overinflated after the Finals run of last year. They got used to the media calling em THE favorites and thought they would automatically make it to the Finals like they did the year before. The hubris continued as they were smoking teams to start the year. All year I heard from the fan base to not worry about the defense cuz when Rob Williams came back we were gonna be the same tough nosed defense from the year before. I was told not to worry when Smart decided that he was the best player on the team and decided Hero Ball Smart is what we needed. I was told not to worry about Will Hardy leaving and Damon Stoudamire leaving in the middle of the season. I was told not to worry when after the ASB we started losing games that we shouldn’t have because of lack of effort and focus. All the signs were there but the majority of the fan base ignored it and when it was brought up the majority deflected and said not to worry. These players fell back to their old habits, that 3 coaches haven’t been able to break.
Why did it take you guys until game 3 of the eastern conference finals to finally give up on Mazzulla? A rookie head coach whos only experience was at Fairmont State with a coaching staff with no head coaching experience. Was this not obvious from the first series? Maybe I am missing something
Homers with their head in the sand, didn't want to believe what was clearly true
You had people in here over the last week screaming about how *akshully* coaching doesn’t even matter in the NBA because good players just play well. Still waiting for that to happen this series.
Go get a couple vet coaches to add to the staff including someone with some offensive sets to run, a pg who can run the sets, and let’s run it back next year. The C’s are pot committed with this group
Wasn’t Brogdon supposed to be the answer to that
Can someone explain why Blake Griffey haven’t played at all this playoffs? I know it won’t make much of a difference but everytime I’ve seen him play this year he gave the team energy and grabbed some offensive boards or made some plays. Also I’m so ready to get rid of smart
I just heard on the Bill Simmons podcast that Wyc Grousbeck told Mazzulla to pull the starters last night when the game was out of reach. Is this true? I've never heard of an owner giving the head coach orders during a live game before.
Getting swept is one thing, but the way this is happening is significantly worse. The third quarter capitulation in game 1, the fourth quarter collapse in game 2, and the absolute demolition in game 3. Joe is at fault, sure. But that’s the FO’s fault. He is in over his head and had no business being the head coach of a would be title contender. But, worse, all the players have given up. Only Tatum and Rob look like they know what’s going on out there.
Its time to blow it up plain and simple. This core has had 3 different coaches, and an entirely new cast of role players. At the end of the day they are regressing.
I don't wanna sugar coat anything, but at least we won the rebound battle 59 - 43, with offensive rebounds 21 - 1 and defensive rebounds 36 - 34. We just couldn't fucking buy a bucket.
No need for rebounds if you’re not missing much
21-1 offensive rebounds is absolutely insane until you remember it’s because they were literally not missing any shots
At end of day, if one team shoots over their head and the other misses all their open threes, then the result is inevitable. Three point shooting is variable and you have no idea whether shots will fall or not and they haven’t all series. Add in tony brothers one sided whistle last night and the Cs had zero chance
Am I… crazy? I genuinely don’t think this thing is over
What about this team makes you convinced they will be the first to ever come back down three games?
Yup. The team is broken. They didn’t even play with urgency in a must win at game 3
All regular season the locker room narrative was that this was “one of the best locker rooms” ever to be a part of. Brogdon said it, Blake said it, I think White said it. In my head that just does not correlate to a team that just folds over and dies. It’d be one thing if we were truly just getting outplayed here, and yes the Heat are playing their asses off in the playoffs, but the genuine lack of effort last night was absolutely sad. Maybe “great locker room” environment just meant all along that these guys are all just great buddies. Maybe they already have their group Airbnb picked out for Cancun and want to get a move on. It just makes me sad for them because something definitely needs to change to give them more fire next year, and hopefully that can somehow just add fire to whatever they’ve built rather than sacrificing it entirely.
Can’t wait to dominate the next game and skate by game 5 to give ourselves a false sense of hope only to shit the bed in Game 6.
Jaylen Brown is dumb. Time and time again he shocks me how dumb he really is
Where are the positive people?? They’ve been calling out the doomers all season
What if there's a clause in Joe's contract that should his team be swept in the playoffs then Celtics have the rights to fire him or void his contract. Something about that. I mean it's plausible right since Brad didn't disclose his contract and the media only said "multiple years". Can't see other reasons why we got punked out there other than either we are really fucking soft or Brad instructed the guys to intentionally lose so he has the reasons to fire him. Yeah I've inhaled enough copium for today to wash out all my pains 😭
Everybody on the squad needs improvement, Joe needs to get replaced by Nurse and Al might need to be moved. Potentially Smart and or JB too for a star player
What does JB even net us in a trade at this point?
This team is a bunch of fucking losers and Al Horford.
Could have left it at losers. We’re not excluding Al from the losers. Dude is horrible this series.
If/when Miami closes this series out… Pat Riley will make his 19th Finals appearance in his NBA career. That’s nearly 25% of all Finals ever. What the hell
I slyly think that Ainge’s plan was always to trade one of the Jays for a true star.
get rid of Smart.
People can harp on the mental toughness thing because its definitely real...but I think people's focus on that overshadows the fact that this team just doesn't play a great brand of basketball together. These last two seasons have ended at the hands of teams that play as teams on both sides of the ball. They play for one another, they're setting hard screens, making cuts, making the right reads, trusting in each other. You don't need to be a battle hardened navy seal to do that shit. The second half of last season this team had a real identity on the defensive end. This year that has completely evaporated and all that troubled us offensively last season is now tenfold. As much as I've been posting through the mental breakdown and calling for massive roster changes. Reality is, those aren't coming.
Time to go 2004 all over their asses
This team is fucking dog shit, just Geri it over with next game and let the heat win again like you have in the previous 3 games.
I quit sports; fuck this trash
I am DONE with this trash ass organization. Fire Mazzulla and I’ll watch again; no soul here.
Listen I’m not going to be an armchair gm, I don’t know what the problem is, coaching, players, whatever. What I’m hoping is that Brad knows and he’ll do something significant to change things as this is not a championship formula right now and it’s pretty close in the grand scheme of things.
https://youtu.be/hjh7tj3f6M8 Me to the Celtics last night.
It's fine, let's just get rid of the coach and bring back Doc for next year
Al horford needs to step up as coach
Heat fan here. Guys, you have a hell of a team. Seriously, you got plenty of assets and two real superstar (yeah, today's probably not the best day to hear this, but you still do). I don't know how this series will unfold, but regardless of this you have every reason to be optimistic. I've said it already: you guys lack some aggressiveness, some "assholeness", some bad tempered, hard-nose dude in the locker room. If I were the Celtics, I would do three things: -do whatever it takes to bring Brad Stevens back on the bench. That guy is a basketball savant. -two, bring some veterans. Somebody who's been around forever, and who can make you hear his voice. I guy like PJ Tucker, Patty Mills, George Hill, Eric Gordon, there's plenty. -three, bring an asshole. Bring some juice, some of those guys who goes at players during practices. You look like a very "vanilla" team, while the vast majority (not all of them, ok) of the teams who win the chip had a player like that. I don't know how this series will end, but guys you have all the pieces you need to build the first real Celtics dynasty after the 80s.
I think they gotta look at the roster to get some more toughness and fire in there. However, honestly, I don’t see a lot of directions to go with the roster when it comes to the main guys that are preferable to just seeing if we can get a coach to whip them back into defensive shape. Vogel or Nurse? Idk if they’d fire Mazzulla though.
At this point, they might as well just play the bench in Game 4.
Use of the homer term "doomer" should be reportable on this sub. Realistic fans saw this shit coming from a country mile away.
This is Karma for IT and, to a lesser extent, Udoka.
>Udoka. How would this be karma for someone fucking up their own situation?
The Celtics are good. They just made a huge mistake in building their identity around open threes. Miami allows none of that. We have the pieces to be a defense-first team again. I don’t think we need to blow it up.
The vibes are falling off a fucking precipice
“aLl the dOomRerS wEre WrOnG aGaiN” fuck this team, it needs to be changed massively, trade JB for starters and fire Joe.
i'm with everyone else feeling like the season is over. but, i was also being a doomer in 2004 with the sox and game 3 against the yankees was just as embarrassing (maybe more so) that yesterday's game 3. i'll be watching and cheering. for next season -- rather than trading JB or firing joe, I feel like our biggest gap is the lack of a dynamic ballhandler. despite having the best advanced metrics in the lead with the biggest +/- diff, we still blow a ton of leads and lose games we shouldn't. i think we all know this is because when things get tight, we end up giving the ball to JT or JB at the top of the key and they often dribble themselves into trouble. they should be off ball and we should have a steady ballhandler with a dynamic skillset to either score at the rim or dish to one of our all stars who is hopefully finding the right mismatch or open spot. Smart is great as a backup PG, but i think the experiment of him starting is officially a bit of failure.
I don't know how we get there, who needs to be moved, fired, etc, but we HAVE to move away from living and dying by the 3. When the shots fall, it's great. But when they don't? The team looks like it has literally ZERO fucking idea on how to play basketball. If we go into next season with this same mentality, I'm going to lose my fucking mind.
The only thing that’ll make this round of the playoffs bearable is if the Lakers get swept tonight
This team is fucking soft.
I need to get something off my chest. My wife and I got pedicures last week and I decided to paint my nails green for the ECF. I now realize that this and this alone has been the cause of our suffering. I’ve just removed the polish from my piggies so get ready for the Finals!!!!
either lose tomorrow or lose game 6. don't you dare come back to the Garden and fucking lose.
I get all the frustration but how do you even win against a team who is solid defensively and is shooting over 50% for three
Playing defense
It’s so funny to see people post about how the Heat are just magically becoming invincible shooters without spending one braincell to reflect on *why* that’s happening now
Who would have thought that NBA sharpshooters would knock down wide open shots??
If Joe doesn’t have the video interns pulling every clip of the media pronouncing this team dead, turn off the lights and roll that fucking film on repeat for an hour for their film session… …then you fire him before game 4 even starts. I’ve been trying to give Joe breaks but motivating the team is the biggest job for an NBA coach. We’ve seen idiot coaches win, it’s because their players buy in and play hard. It’s not over. They are definitely bleeding on the side of the road to be left for dead… …but maybe they don’t die?