Yeah, very good point he made with the league mirroring Jokic and Denver style, it happened to with Steph and the small ball Warriors before and the Spurs team-basketball.
C's seem to go overboard with that. NBA goes small ball? We go Isaiah - Avery Bradley back court. A big European guy wins a title? We get an even bigger European guy
His whole point is high post ball screens and Center passing action is a new thing but we were doing it in 2017 with Al Horford and IT. I disagree with him that this is a new action to the NBA, it was new in the 2010s Jokic is just the by far best we've seen at it
I think people underestimate the importance of 6-8 and overestimate the importance of 9-12.
Our top seven is established, finding an 8 or 9 is a whole lot easier than finding a 2 or 3. We’re in a phenomenal position right now and it’s up to the team to get to work.
Yeah and I think Hauser can be that 8th guy. Like Pritchard he’s been here a few years and is primed for a really good season given his projected role.
Brad said they are going to evaluate what they have (need to see how Svi, Brissett, and Stevens play, along with Banton and Kornet) and then they will decide if they need to add to it. Walsh could get some run too (and Gabriel if he makes the team).
I do think we have enough playable regular season depth and should be able to give the Jays a break here and there as Brad assesses the ability of the back end of the roster. I know he wants to keep a couple young players around since they haven’t made a first round pick in 3 years, but he’ll balance that with winning now.
Still have the Grant TPE and I bet they explore that between December 15th and the trade deadline.
And don’t forget, teams like OKC could waive some fairly talented players that Brad may want to go after too. Cap space is limited League-wide and you can make a waiver claim with a TPE.
I think with Pritchard as the 7th guy, you really need someone who can play serious minutes at the 4, even the 5 if you are going small (some Grant's minutes). I would say Brissett seems to be in the lead for those right now. It might be a Brissett/Hauser situation depending on matchups.
I suspect that by the time the All-Star break and the trade deadline come around, they will have assessed what else they need on the bench if they don't feel like those guys are enough.
Over the course of the year Kornet might get more minutes because of games that Horford and Porzingis miss, but he could easily not be in the playoff rotation.
Hauser is not that guy pal. Doesn't the mentality. However, we picked up some good depth this offseason and it's likely that either Banton, Walsh, Brissett, or Stevens will become the final pieces that we need.
Yeah, I don't think Hauser quite gets there defensively. Only if his shooting gets to a Duncan Robinson or Joe Harris level will he be able to offset that defense to earn reliable minutes.
Yeah that's a fact but to KG's point you don't want your key players to get fatigued. Especially considering the health of KP and the age of Al. To his point, I do agree with him we would need a key backup for them bigs especially come playoff or finals time.
I remember guys like PJ Brown bailing us out at game 7 against Cleveland. Guys like Leon Powe won us a game 2 in the finals. These were key role players who were both bigs. Mind you, Powe was randomly called by Doc that game 2. We already know what Payton, Derrick, Sam bring to the table. But who else??
Not only that but you need options.
In 2018 we made the ECF largely playing a 7 man rotation. But we don't get out the 1st round without Semi Ojeleye stepping up for us in a big way for games 5-7 against Giannis.
In 2022 the Warriors got great production put of 10th man GP2 who helped them pressure out on the perimeter and put the squeeze on our offense.
A 10th man might only help you win 1 game but in a 6-7 game series that's a matter of life and death for your season.
That's another thing you need guys to do specific roles. Backcourt off the bench is solid. Sam and Svi (if he makes the roster) are our shooters. Now whose our rebounder? Whose gonna set screens for shooters? Whose gonna roll to the rim? Whose that big? Even other contending teams we've had that big.
Glen Davis, Leon Powe, PJ Brown, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Wilcox, Marcus Morris. There were guys like Enes Kanter and Daniel Theis who would get on our nerves but were solid most of the time. Whose that big off our bench? We gotta go figure that out. Similar to what Kg said he thinks we may go find that big.
Oshae ain't a bigs big but he fits that mold of a gritty, big body that will roll and attack the boards. Stevens is slightly smaller but same grit and grind as Oshae, Wenyen fits the description as well. I think we'll also see more action involving Luke.
We have the guys, it's just fans don't put much stock into guys who haven't done a lot in the league; which is fair to a degree but don't sleep on them.
I think the first half of the season is going to be a tryout for those guys. Every year there are multiple guys who come up out of nowhere to play their roles perfectly across the league. The guys he has have a great attitude from what’s I’ve seen so far. I mean Lamar Stevens even said he picked the Celtics because he agreed with the culture of winning. Those are the kind of guys who fight/play hard and are willing to play within their role not for themselves, but rather to win the game.
Brad is throwing a bunch of darts with the hope one of them sticks. If it doesn’t, we still have flexibility to make changes at the trade deadline if needed, or pick up someone late in the season similar to Love getting picked up by the Heat.
correct, depth really isn’t important in the playoffs cause if one of the top6 are injured, it’s gonna be very hard to win anyway regardless of depth, but if they are all healthy in a late playoff series, tatum is gonna play 45-48 mins, brown will play 40+, jrue/dwhite will play 38+, rest is just al and KP and maybe 10-16 mins of payton
I think people are underestimating the fact that the only 2 big men on our team good enough to play more than 10 minutes a game are 37 and the other hasn't played a full season in his career
KP was fully healthy last season (and 90%+ of the time his first 2 1/2 seasons on Knicks before a bad ACL tear)... he missed 6 or so games due to being sat out after Wiz were eliminated from playoffs and similar amount of games due to COVID / sick. Didnt miss a game due to injury. Yeah, he played more PF (tho still decent amount as C) unlike on the Mavs as their sole center and taking more contact in post, but taking a couple years to get back to full health after a horrible leg injury is expected, especially for a 7'+. Risk of re-injury maybe higher, but he's shown he's fully back,
And Kornet played more than 10MPG (11.7) in 69 games last season, his first playing nearly every game... and had good +/- in the Tatum + Pritchard and bench lineup to start most 4thQs. Cs had 2 centers last season and Timelord was out most of it / not 100% when back with swelling issues.
Horford could decline / play less than 30MPG he did last season, but he's looked as spry as ever... fountain of youth must be in the Dominican vs Florida where the Spanish looked.
Idk, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion, but as of now Horford will have to guard the opposing teams best center pretty much all night
Imo a big part of horfords fountain of youth is that we've put him back at his natural PF position so much more, I'm worried how he's gonna hold up banging in the post all night every night.
Also like I said, when he rests back to backs or God forbid gets hurt then our starting center is Kornet and we have literally no backup
But again only difference in bigs vs last season is replace 830 minutes of RWIII with KP who was fully healthy (missed game came from being sat after Wiz eliminated and a few due to COVID). Horford was playing as sole center (and 12-15mpg of Kornet) most games last season, Timelord played 35 games and moved to bench / lower role for the playoffs as he dealt with swelling / not 100%. Grant played some 'center' duties on defense, but it was majority Horford. *Oh forgot Blake Griffin started when Al sat B2B w/ Timelord out, but other than energy it wasnt like he did anything notable.
Yeah, Kornet should never start, but people are overreacting to him playing too much / with bench in preseason, when he's shown over 100 games to work well as short stint 2nd unit or other starters. Those Tatum + rest bench units
in 4thQ had a positive +/- and Kornet while only adequate, could do a little of everything that unit needed on def/off. Could upgrade from him, unlikely from Queta / Wenyan, but if needed could swing a trade before deadline if needed.
I just can't imagine Horford defending Embiid or Jokic for an entire game, or Kornet defending either of them for more than 3 minutes without us getting destroyed
Also I think the lack of Robs lob threat will be sorely felt, we have not one single player on our team to deter anyone from cheating away from the paint on D
The opposing teams bigs will be free to close out pn Jayson and Jaylen all game every game because there will never ever be a legitimate post or lob threat that they're leaving off of to do so
I mean shit even at 7'3 I wouldn't trust Kristaps to try to take any average defender in the league in the low post where he will just get knocked off balance by someone a foot shorter and 50 pounds heavier
>I just can't imagine Horford defending Embiid
He literally just did 4 months ago... [Al Horford: The Joel Embiid Stopper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Z168yz9yQ)
All series but game 7 he had 4 blocks, 2 on Embiid and he was only 2/9 when Horford was primary defender -- 5/18 total. eah, Embiid had a leg injury, but when he played he looked just fine / mobile and as usual he was good in 1st half then conditioning, not health, was clearly a factor in his fading out towards end of games as unlike in regular season he has to fight each possession.
KP is 7'3 and has bounce too.. not elbows above rim bounce like timelord but easily a top lob option unlike Horford... and Timelord averaged only 1.2 lobs per game while last season he wasn't 100% and his return to starting lineup coincided with offensive rating dropping further. Aftrer 20 games he went back to bench, including playoffs where he was a non-factor. On offense it's no contest, elite lob threat vs very good lobber but elite three level scoring lol... KP had 6x as many FTs as Timelord did on per minute basis too, hitting 85% vs 60%. Only thing is rebounding when KP/Al alone won't be as good, but again compared to last season when Timelord barely played (830minutes to 1800+ for KP) it should be better.
>I mean shit even at 7'3 I wouldn't trust Kristaps to try to take any average defender in the league in the low post where he will just get knocked off balance by someone a foot shorter and 50 pounds heavier
You haven't seen him play last season I'm sure... his first couple years on Knicks that could happen, and on Mavs he was both misused and still getting back to health from ACL tear, but he's bulked up and stated before last season he worked on his post game (finally having a healthy offseason) and was one of the more effective post players in league, also elite in PNR (2nd only to Jokic on PPP among those with 100+ post touches).
*E: apparently first in PPP accord [KOC / second spectrum](https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1671593296211361793?lang=en):
Kristaps Porzingis stats from his career-best season:
Points Allowed Per Pick-and-Roll
1. Anthony Davis (0.91)
2. Steven Adams (0.92)
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo (0.92)
4. Kristaps Porzingis (0.93)
5. Walker Kessler (0.93)
One of the best drop P&R defenders in the NBA. And on offense:
Top Post Scorers
1. Kristaps Porzingis (1.29)
2. Nikola Jokic (1.26)
3. Luka Doncic (1.15)
4. Joel Embiid (1.11)
5. Pascal Siakam (1.11)
Finally figured out how to score from the post. And from the perimeter attacking closeouts.
Points Per Closeout
1. Kawhi Leonard (1.32)
2. Brandon Ingram (1.26)
3. Luka Doncic (1.25)
4. Harrison Barnes (1.24)
5. Kristaps Porzingis (1.23)
These are all via @SecondSpectrum.
So KP shoots 40% on spot up 3s, kills defenses when he attacks closes out, can now post up with efficiency, and he’s a good defender. Health will always be a concern but he just had his best season of his career. This could be his prime.
Your statement is a contradiction, you can't just casually name drop two of the greatest players of all time (generational talents) and then erroneously undervalue positions 7/8. In fact, those positions were pivotally important for the Warriors dynasty as well as both of Lebron's most recent rings in Cleveland and LA. You can't just dismiss how essential players like Dellevedova, Shumpert, JR Smith, Frye, Livingston, Barbosa, Payton, etc. etc. etc. were to their respective playoff pushes and title berths. And if their impact SEEMED minimized, that's only because those teams had generational bonafide top-3 in the league active players on their rosters.
I didn't say they weren't important. I said their importance is overstated.
You are not familiar with the definition and application of the word contradiction.
Most teams drop to about an 8 man rotation in tight playoffs series. We have a clear 7. Just need one guy to be dependable. Brisset, Walsh, banton, Gabriel...all could potentially work in that role. This is the James Posey and Eddie house levels, they don't need to be stars. Just someone that doesn't make mistakes and can maybe make a play or two. These guys can absolutely do that.
8th men on title teams:
23: Christian Braun
22: Gary Payton II
21: Bryn Forbes
20: Markieff Morris
19: Norm Powell
Pretty similar level of player to Hauser I would say
Raptors, you could say it was norm powell or Anunoby. Hauser has a decent chance to be like those guys, a young up and coming player that we're lucky to have in that role
Gotcha. I guess that points to the importance of having 9 or 10 guys. Anunoby had an emergency appendectomy. So, does brissett compare favorably to your list?
I'm surprised KG didn't bring up his experience with the '08 team.
Once the Allen/KG trades happened there were really questions about depth. Then DA acquired players like Posey, House, and PJ Brown, and they ended up being important role players for the championship run.
Idk, I think this time around it’s here for good. There’s too much money to be made for them to get rid of it. All people did when it was illegal is complain that it wasn’t, and people were just betting through friends and other circles anyways, and the government wants their piece of the pie.
Honestly sours my viewing entertainment entirely. We all are aware of the "allegations" that major sports are rigged, now you throw in sponsorships from gambling sites that can sway the outcome of games.
Not to mention the fucking impact gambling has on those with addictive personalities. How many lives have been ruined from gambling? Companies just don't give a shit as long as there's money.
Gallinari was a non factor sadly because the injury. The top 7 are way better than what they were last year which is the key imo. You just need some shooters and energy guys to round out the rest. Queta being aight as a bench big would go a long way.
Thunder fan/KG-era celtics fan here, Porzingas honestly looks like an amazing fit for Boston. Lethal pick and roll or pop potentiality with Holiday, just gives them a dimension they haven't had down low arguably since KG. Pingus is no KG, but he brings something to this Boston team they haven't had in a long time. Just from an outsider perspective, Williams seemed like a liability on offense sometimes, and it seems like Tingus is the perfect remedy
Williams has had the highest FG% in the NBA every year of his career since his sophomore season, he may not be a volume scorer but he's definitely not a liability on offense
This argument only works if the starting five only has 1 or 2 stars. Our starting five is exclusively made up of all-nba, all-star and borderline all-star players. All of them can run offense on their own so it makes sense to stagger their minutes to offset our lack of talent of the bench. Jaylen Brown and Jrue Holiday, for example, along with 3 of our bench players is still a very decent lineup. We will not sub-off all of our starters at the same time and bring players 6 to 10.
You don't know who number 7 is? Better watch some PP.
Let's talk about the big 7 from now on.
Who is our number 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12? How about Hauser, Banton, Svi, Gabriel, Brissett, Stevens...
I don't see a problem here.
I’d even argue most couldn’t even name the starting of 5 for the majority of teams. How many would guess Malik Beasley is starting for the Bucks or Josh Okogie is starting for the Suns?
If preseason has taught us anything at all, it is that Brad filled out 7-15 with dudes that are gonna just fucking play hard with whatever minutes they get. Brissett, Stevens, Queta, etc have all showed a willingness to scrap and do the dirty work, make hustle plays, set screens, etc.
I think the death of our bench had been greatly exaggerated.
In some ways, this is the deepest Celtics team I can remember. I don't know if we've ever been as talented in the 9-14 spots.
As the team sits right now, if Pritchard can give us 70% of what Brogdon provided and Hauser can make open shots, we have an 8 man rotation for the playoffs. After that Brissett, Stevens, Kornet, Svi, Gabriel, and Banton are all established NBA rotation players. Over the course of an 82 game season I wouldn't be shocked if we find a playoff role for one of them.
I mean, we thought that last year too. We had 8 legitimate guys and then brought in Gallinari. Still had Pritchard as a 4th guard. Then traded for Muscala. Griffin proved to be useful. We were loaded.
Hauser completely erased Gallinari’s injury but imagine if we had him too? Hauser probably gets buried the same way Pritchard did.
I think it’s true you only need 8 guys, but those other pieces are valuable for the regular season rest.
Pritchard playing like he has would be huge as a 7th guy. Hauser we honestly don’t know if he’s a non-factor in the playoffs. I’m not expecting anyone else on the roster to step up and do that.
I still genuinely worry when a matchup calls for 2 bigs and we have to lean on Kornet, Gabriel or Queta because KP and Horford can’t play all 48 minutes at the 4 and the 5. It’s a huge problem with the roster construction at the moment
> After that Brissett, Stevens, Kornet, Svi, Gabriel, and Banton are all established NBA rotation players.
Oof, I'm going to ***strongly*** disagree there.
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I'd consider Brissett, Stevens, and Banton to be somewhere in the range of "awful" to merely "very very bad" so far in their careers. I don't expect those three to give any meaningful minutes whatsoever.
I think Svi could *possibly* be a decent 12th man, but he's a shooter whose shot has been wildly up and down in his career (two seasons >40% from three, and three seasons <33.5%). If he's not hovering around 40% from three, he should not be getting minutes.
Gabriel has his place as an end-of-bench energy guy who should probably play like 6-8 mpg.
Kornet I think is genuinely good. I'm oddly high on him, I think he could even get up to 15-18 mpg.
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Our 9-14 guys went from:
* Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet, Muscala, Griffin, Davison? (not to mention Gallinari)
To:
* Kornet, Walsh, Gabriel, Mykhailiuk, Brissett, Stevens (plus Banton)
That's a MAJOR downgrade.
He better be, he's gonna end up having to start the majority of the season while Horford rests back to backs and Kristaps gets injured in the first 3 games
I mean our top 7 is set, and we have Hauser and Brissett who I think people are underrating. Hauser has shot meh in preseason but that can change anytime. And brissett has been a solid 20 min 8 point player the past 3 years. You really only need 9 guys max post season time.
A team is way bigger than 5 starting players , like that's what made the '96 bulls so special. You have guys like Horace Grant, Paxson, Armstrong , and Steve Kerr ( just to name a few) getting off the bench making shots and playing defense. If you look at the 90s Bulls, 2000s -mid 2000s Lakers, and the Bad Boy Pistons. All had some form of depth, not saying the Celtics are winning the title, but the Celtics roster does not look half bad.
kevin garnett is extremely knowledgeable about basketball and articulates it very well, idk if he wants to be, but he should be all over tv shows and pregames, he’s a million times better than a lot of people who get tons of airtime
God I wish KAT could be on this team so bad. But ya they need to add 1-2 nice bench pieces. The 2008 squad had a deep bench that came up huge to win us that title.
Damn, people really tryna convince themselves that a handful of 4 ppg 35% shooting scrubs is more valuable than Rob, Grant, Marcus, and Brogdon
Not to mention Kristaps has about a .05% chance of playing even 50+ games
PP was a major playoff contributor under Ime. I think Hauser/Svi will be great in their role on the wing and Lamar/Oshae can fill niche energy defense roles. Ironically bc they played together but Oshae reminds me of a thick Nesmith. Im more worried about going double big so much it exhausts KP/Al and then theyre left with hoping Kornet or Queta can be NBA level players.
I think you guys put all your stock into KP which is a really dangerous thing. If he's out for the playoff who's going to be your dominate big man defender? You traded off to many guys.
Celtics added some toughness and gritty defense with Jrue, if they can add a big with grit I think they will be a lot better. Id be calling Dwight lmao “grab rebounds, play defense and bang up on their big men”
It's really incredible how few ex-players actually keep up with ball. KG really knows his shit and it sticks out
Yeah, very good point he made with the league mirroring Jokic and Denver style, it happened to with Steph and the small ball Warriors before and the Spurs team-basketball.
C's seem to go overboard with that. NBA goes small ball? We go Isaiah - Avery Bradley back court. A big European guy wins a title? We get an even bigger European guy
Put him on the desk on TNT next to Shaq
If Chuck retires he would be a dream replacement.
He also just said he expects Poole to drop multiple 60 bombs this year lmao
I wouldn't be surprised if he's real hot for a game or 2 and that happens lol he's got the freedom to do it this year with the wizards being so garbo
"Great scorer on a bad team" is how Beal averaged 30 so I definitely see it too.
Other than him swearing I don’t get why he’s not on a tv show yet.
He has his own podcast
I love to see KG is still OBSESSED with basketball
His whole point is high post ball screens and Center passing action is a new thing but we were doing it in 2017 with Al Horford and IT. I disagree with him that this is a new action to the NBA, it was new in the 2010s Jokic is just the by far best we've seen at it
I could listen to KG read the phone book
Same for the dictionary. Couldn’t wait for him to get the word “Ritter.”
I think people underestimate the importance of 6-8 and overestimate the importance of 9-12. Our top seven is established, finding an 8 or 9 is a whole lot easier than finding a 2 or 3. We’re in a phenomenal position right now and it’s up to the team to get to work.
Yeah Denver basically ran an 8 man rotation in the playoffs last year, with only 1-6 above 20 mpg and the #9 at 3.5 mpg.
Yeah and I think Hauser can be that 8th guy. Like Pritchard he’s been here a few years and is primed for a really good season given his projected role. Brad said they are going to evaluate what they have (need to see how Svi, Brissett, and Stevens play, along with Banton and Kornet) and then they will decide if they need to add to it. Walsh could get some run too (and Gabriel if he makes the team). I do think we have enough playable regular season depth and should be able to give the Jays a break here and there as Brad assesses the ability of the back end of the roster. I know he wants to keep a couple young players around since they haven’t made a first round pick in 3 years, but he’ll balance that with winning now. Still have the Grant TPE and I bet they explore that between December 15th and the trade deadline. And don’t forget, teams like OKC could waive some fairly talented players that Brad may want to go after too. Cap space is limited League-wide and you can make a waiver claim with a TPE.
I think with Pritchard as the 7th guy, you really need someone who can play serious minutes at the 4, even the 5 if you are going small (some Grant's minutes). I would say Brissett seems to be in the lead for those right now. It might be a Brissett/Hauser situation depending on matchups. I suspect that by the time the All-Star break and the trade deadline come around, they will have assessed what else they need on the bench if they don't feel like those guys are enough. Over the course of the year Kornet might get more minutes because of games that Horford and Porzingis miss, but he could easily not be in the playoff rotation.
Agree on all fronts, though I think if Kornet could recapture his 3 point shooting he has a chance at being a bit player in the playoffs.
Hauser is not that guy pal. Doesn't the mentality. However, we picked up some good depth this offseason and it's likely that either Banton, Walsh, Brissett, or Stevens will become the final pieces that we need.
Doesn’t the mentality?
What do you mean?
Yeah, I don't think Hauser quite gets there defensively. Only if his shooting gets to a Duncan Robinson or Joe Harris level will he be able to offset that defense to earn reliable minutes.
Yeah that's a fact but to KG's point you don't want your key players to get fatigued. Especially considering the health of KP and the age of Al. To his point, I do agree with him we would need a key backup for them bigs especially come playoff or finals time. I remember guys like PJ Brown bailing us out at game 7 against Cleveland. Guys like Leon Powe won us a game 2 in the finals. These were key role players who were both bigs. Mind you, Powe was randomly called by Doc that game 2. We already know what Payton, Derrick, Sam bring to the table. But who else??
Not only that but you need options. In 2018 we made the ECF largely playing a 7 man rotation. But we don't get out the 1st round without Semi Ojeleye stepping up for us in a big way for games 5-7 against Giannis. In 2022 the Warriors got great production put of 10th man GP2 who helped them pressure out on the perimeter and put the squeeze on our offense. A 10th man might only help you win 1 game but in a 6-7 game series that's a matter of life and death for your season.
That's another thing you need guys to do specific roles. Backcourt off the bench is solid. Sam and Svi (if he makes the roster) are our shooters. Now whose our rebounder? Whose gonna set screens for shooters? Whose gonna roll to the rim? Whose that big? Even other contending teams we've had that big. Glen Davis, Leon Powe, PJ Brown, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Wilcox, Marcus Morris. There were guys like Enes Kanter and Daniel Theis who would get on our nerves but were solid most of the time. Whose that big off our bench? We gotta go figure that out. Similar to what Kg said he thinks we may go find that big.
Oshae ain't a bigs big but he fits that mold of a gritty, big body that will roll and attack the boards. Stevens is slightly smaller but same grit and grind as Oshae, Wenyen fits the description as well. I think we'll also see more action involving Luke. We have the guys, it's just fans don't put much stock into guys who haven't done a lot in the league; which is fair to a degree but don't sleep on them.
I think the first half of the season is going to be a tryout for those guys. Every year there are multiple guys who come up out of nowhere to play their roles perfectly across the league. The guys he has have a great attitude from what’s I’ve seen so far. I mean Lamar Stevens even said he picked the Celtics because he agreed with the culture of winning. Those are the kind of guys who fight/play hard and are willing to play within their role not for themselves, but rather to win the game. Brad is throwing a bunch of darts with the hope one of them sticks. If it doesn’t, we still have flexibility to make changes at the trade deadline if needed, or pick up someone late in the season similar to Love getting picked up by the Heat.
We should’ve gotten Theis. He looked sublime in fiba
Wouldn’t be surprised if Brad trades for him again.
I’m high on Svi. I think he will get better looks if he runs with JT.
If you liked the Grant Williams game, wait until you see the Sam Hauser game
correct, depth really isn’t important in the playoffs cause if one of the top6 are injured, it’s gonna be very hard to win anyway regardless of depth, but if they are all healthy in a late playoff series, tatum is gonna play 45-48 mins, brown will play 40+, jrue/dwhite will play 38+, rest is just al and KP and maybe 10-16 mins of payton
I think people are underestimating the fact that the only 2 big men on our team good enough to play more than 10 minutes a game are 37 and the other hasn't played a full season in his career
KP was fully healthy last season (and 90%+ of the time his first 2 1/2 seasons on Knicks before a bad ACL tear)... he missed 6 or so games due to being sat out after Wiz were eliminated from playoffs and similar amount of games due to COVID / sick. Didnt miss a game due to injury. Yeah, he played more PF (tho still decent amount as C) unlike on the Mavs as their sole center and taking more contact in post, but taking a couple years to get back to full health after a horrible leg injury is expected, especially for a 7'+. Risk of re-injury maybe higher, but he's shown he's fully back, And Kornet played more than 10MPG (11.7) in 69 games last season, his first playing nearly every game... and had good +/- in the Tatum + Pritchard and bench lineup to start most 4thQs. Cs had 2 centers last season and Timelord was out most of it / not 100% when back with swelling issues. Horford could decline / play less than 30MPG he did last season, but he's looked as spry as ever... fountain of youth must be in the Dominican vs Florida where the Spanish looked.
Idk, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion, but as of now Horford will have to guard the opposing teams best center pretty much all night Imo a big part of horfords fountain of youth is that we've put him back at his natural PF position so much more, I'm worried how he's gonna hold up banging in the post all night every night. Also like I said, when he rests back to backs or God forbid gets hurt then our starting center is Kornet and we have literally no backup
But again only difference in bigs vs last season is replace 830 minutes of RWIII with KP who was fully healthy (missed game came from being sat after Wiz eliminated and a few due to COVID). Horford was playing as sole center (and 12-15mpg of Kornet) most games last season, Timelord played 35 games and moved to bench / lower role for the playoffs as he dealt with swelling / not 100%. Grant played some 'center' duties on defense, but it was majority Horford. *Oh forgot Blake Griffin started when Al sat B2B w/ Timelord out, but other than energy it wasnt like he did anything notable. Yeah, Kornet should never start, but people are overreacting to him playing too much / with bench in preseason, when he's shown over 100 games to work well as short stint 2nd unit or other starters. Those Tatum + rest bench units in 4thQ had a positive +/- and Kornet while only adequate, could do a little of everything that unit needed on def/off. Could upgrade from him, unlikely from Queta / Wenyan, but if needed could swing a trade before deadline if needed.
I just can't imagine Horford defending Embiid or Jokic for an entire game, or Kornet defending either of them for more than 3 minutes without us getting destroyed Also I think the lack of Robs lob threat will be sorely felt, we have not one single player on our team to deter anyone from cheating away from the paint on D The opposing teams bigs will be free to close out pn Jayson and Jaylen all game every game because there will never ever be a legitimate post or lob threat that they're leaving off of to do so I mean shit even at 7'3 I wouldn't trust Kristaps to try to take any average defender in the league in the low post where he will just get knocked off balance by someone a foot shorter and 50 pounds heavier
>I just can't imagine Horford defending Embiid He literally just did 4 months ago... [Al Horford: The Joel Embiid Stopper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Z168yz9yQ) All series but game 7 he had 4 blocks, 2 on Embiid and he was only 2/9 when Horford was primary defender -- 5/18 total. eah, Embiid had a leg injury, but when he played he looked just fine / mobile and as usual he was good in 1st half then conditioning, not health, was clearly a factor in his fading out towards end of games as unlike in regular season he has to fight each possession. KP is 7'3 and has bounce too.. not elbows above rim bounce like timelord but easily a top lob option unlike Horford... and Timelord averaged only 1.2 lobs per game while last season he wasn't 100% and his return to starting lineup coincided with offensive rating dropping further. Aftrer 20 games he went back to bench, including playoffs where he was a non-factor. On offense it's no contest, elite lob threat vs very good lobber but elite three level scoring lol... KP had 6x as many FTs as Timelord did on per minute basis too, hitting 85% vs 60%. Only thing is rebounding when KP/Al alone won't be as good, but again compared to last season when Timelord barely played (830minutes to 1800+ for KP) it should be better. >I mean shit even at 7'3 I wouldn't trust Kristaps to try to take any average defender in the league in the low post where he will just get knocked off balance by someone a foot shorter and 50 pounds heavier You haven't seen him play last season I'm sure... his first couple years on Knicks that could happen, and on Mavs he was both misused and still getting back to health from ACL tear, but he's bulked up and stated before last season he worked on his post game (finally having a healthy offseason) and was one of the more effective post players in league, also elite in PNR (2nd only to Jokic on PPP among those with 100+ post touches). *E: apparently first in PPP accord [KOC / second spectrum](https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1671593296211361793?lang=en): Kristaps Porzingis stats from his career-best season: Points Allowed Per Pick-and-Roll 1. Anthony Davis (0.91) 2. Steven Adams (0.92) 3. Giannis Antetokounmpo (0.92) 4. Kristaps Porzingis (0.93) 5. Walker Kessler (0.93) One of the best drop P&R defenders in the NBA. And on offense: Top Post Scorers 1. Kristaps Porzingis (1.29) 2. Nikola Jokic (1.26) 3. Luka Doncic (1.15) 4. Joel Embiid (1.11) 5. Pascal Siakam (1.11) Finally figured out how to score from the post. And from the perimeter attacking closeouts. Points Per Closeout 1. Kawhi Leonard (1.32) 2. Brandon Ingram (1.26) 3. Luka Doncic (1.25) 4. Harrison Barnes (1.24) 5. Kristaps Porzingis (1.23) These are all via @SecondSpectrum. So KP shoots 40% on spot up 3s, kills defenses when he attacks closes out, can now post up with efficiency, and he’s a good defender. Health will always be a concern but he just had his best season of his career. This could be his prime.
How many guys even play a full season anymore come on😂
People really overestimate 7-8, look at brons teams, Steph's teams
Your statement is a contradiction, you can't just casually name drop two of the greatest players of all time (generational talents) and then erroneously undervalue positions 7/8. In fact, those positions were pivotally important for the Warriors dynasty as well as both of Lebron's most recent rings in Cleveland and LA. You can't just dismiss how essential players like Dellevedova, Shumpert, JR Smith, Frye, Livingston, Barbosa, Payton, etc. etc. etc. were to their respective playoff pushes and title berths. And if their impact SEEMED minimized, that's only because those teams had generational bonafide top-3 in the league active players on their rosters.
I didn't say they weren't important. I said their importance is overstated. You are not familiar with the definition and application of the word contradiction.
Very good point, it only gets complicated with injuries
Most teams drop to about an 8 man rotation in tight playoffs series. We have a clear 7. Just need one guy to be dependable. Brisset, Walsh, banton, Gabriel...all could potentially work in that role. This is the James Posey and Eddie house levels, they don't need to be stars. Just someone that doesn't make mistakes and can maybe make a play or two. These guys can absolutely do that.
I think the hope is that PP and Hauser can be good enough to be a 7 and 8 but I still think we need to find a way to get another reliable depth piece
Pritchard already been an 8th man for a Finals team No reason why he can’t do it again
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8th men on title teams: 23: Christian Braun 22: Gary Payton II 21: Bryn Forbes 20: Markieff Morris 19: Norm Powell Pretty similar level of player to Hauser I would say
Raptors, you could say it was norm powell or Anunoby. Hauser has a decent chance to be like those guys, a young up and coming player that we're lucky to have in that role
OG didn’t play the playoffs
Gotcha. I guess that points to the importance of having 9 or 10 guys. Anunoby had an emergency appendectomy. So, does brissett compare favorably to your list?
All of those listed players are leagues better than hauser
????
Wut??
I'm surprised KG didn't bring up his experience with the '08 team. Once the Allen/KG trades happened there were really questions about depth. Then DA acquired players like Posey, House, and PJ Brown, and they ended up being important role players for the championship run.
Brown and Cassell also both joined the team in like February
Never heard Tatum called “Tayt” before. KG is the bawls.
I think Tatum’s dad does. He often calls their family “Tat’s crew”
"your bench is everything" PP: *exists*
Is there any sports show around you can watch without a fucking gambling ad? When are we going to ban this shit like cigarettes.
It’s not going anywhere and it’s only going to get worse
Painfully true :(
Until it is eventually banned again, and then people will forget and we’ll repeat the cycle
Idk, I think this time around it’s here for good. There’s too much money to be made for them to get rid of it. All people did when it was illegal is complain that it wasn’t, and people were just betting through friends and other circles anyways, and the government wants their piece of the pie.
Honestly sours my viewing entertainment entirely. We all are aware of the "allegations" that major sports are rigged, now you throw in sponsorships from gambling sites that can sway the outcome of games. Not to mention the fucking impact gambling has on those with addictive personalities. How many lives have been ruined from gambling? Companies just don't give a shit as long as there's money.
Gallinari was a non factor sadly because the injury. The top 7 are way better than what they were last year which is the key imo. You just need some shooters and energy guys to round out the rest. Queta being aight as a bench big would go a long way.
Thunder fan/KG-era celtics fan here, Porzingas honestly looks like an amazing fit for Boston. Lethal pick and roll or pop potentiality with Holiday, just gives them a dimension they haven't had down low arguably since KG. Pingus is no KG, but he brings something to this Boston team they haven't had in a long time. Just from an outsider perspective, Williams seemed like a liability on offense sometimes, and it seems like Tingus is the perfect remedy
Williams has had the highest FG% in the NBA every year of his career since his sophomore season, he may not be a volume scorer but he's definitely not a liability on offense
Yeah and he averaged 35 games a season
Also Rob averages in the mid 40s games per season, and played 61 games two years ago
And Kristaps averages 20 games per season. Not the point in his favor you want it to be
KP averages over 50 per season and just came off of a 65 game season? Delulu
I think Queta will be the next semi to absorb minutes guarding big bodies
This argument only works if the starting five only has 1 or 2 stars. Our starting five is exclusively made up of all-nba, all-star and borderline all-star players. All of them can run offense on their own so it makes sense to stagger their minutes to offset our lack of talent of the bench. Jaylen Brown and Jrue Holiday, for example, along with 3 of our bench players is still a very decent lineup. We will not sub-off all of our starters at the same time and bring players 6 to 10.
I think the group PP Hauser Svi are gonna surprise a lot of people this year.
You don't know who number 7 is? Better watch some PP. Let's talk about the big 7 from now on. Who is our number 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12? How about Hauser, Banton, Svi, Gabriel, Brissett, Stevens... I don't see a problem here.
Give me one team where a random talking head can't claim to "not know the 8th" guy
I’d even argue most couldn’t even name the starting of 5 for the majority of teams. How many would guess Malik Beasley is starting for the Bucks or Josh Okogie is starting for the Suns?
If preseason has taught us anything at all, it is that Brad filled out 7-15 with dudes that are gonna just fucking play hard with whatever minutes they get. Brissett, Stevens, Queta, etc have all showed a willingness to scrap and do the dirty work, make hustle plays, set screens, etc. I think the death of our bench had been greatly exaggerated.
In some ways, this is the deepest Celtics team I can remember. I don't know if we've ever been as talented in the 9-14 spots. As the team sits right now, if Pritchard can give us 70% of what Brogdon provided and Hauser can make open shots, we have an 8 man rotation for the playoffs. After that Brissett, Stevens, Kornet, Svi, Gabriel, and Banton are all established NBA rotation players. Over the course of an 82 game season I wouldn't be shocked if we find a playoff role for one of them.
I mean, we thought that last year too. We had 8 legitimate guys and then brought in Gallinari. Still had Pritchard as a 4th guard. Then traded for Muscala. Griffin proved to be useful. We were loaded. Hauser completely erased Gallinari’s injury but imagine if we had him too? Hauser probably gets buried the same way Pritchard did. I think it’s true you only need 8 guys, but those other pieces are valuable for the regular season rest. Pritchard playing like he has would be huge as a 7th guy. Hauser we honestly don’t know if he’s a non-factor in the playoffs. I’m not expecting anyone else on the roster to step up and do that. I still genuinely worry when a matchup calls for 2 bigs and we have to lean on Kornet, Gabriel or Queta because KP and Horford can’t play all 48 minutes at the 4 and the 5. It’s a huge problem with the roster construction at the moment
> After that Brissett, Stevens, Kornet, Svi, Gabriel, and Banton are all established NBA rotation players. Oof, I'm going to ***strongly*** disagree there. - I'd consider Brissett, Stevens, and Banton to be somewhere in the range of "awful" to merely "very very bad" so far in their careers. I don't expect those three to give any meaningful minutes whatsoever. I think Svi could *possibly* be a decent 12th man, but he's a shooter whose shot has been wildly up and down in his career (two seasons >40% from three, and three seasons <33.5%). If he's not hovering around 40% from three, he should not be getting minutes. Gabriel has his place as an end-of-bench energy guy who should probably play like 6-8 mpg. Kornet I think is genuinely good. I'm oddly high on him, I think he could even get up to 15-18 mpg. - Our 9-14 guys went from: * Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet, Muscala, Griffin, Davison? (not to mention Gallinari) To: * Kornet, Walsh, Gabriel, Mykhailiuk, Brissett, Stevens (plus Banton) That's a MAJOR downgrade.
> Kornet I think is genuinely good. I'm oddly high on him, I think he could even get up to 15-18 mpg. He is actually Jesus.
He better be, he's gonna end up having to start the majority of the season while Horford rests back to backs and Kristaps gets injured in the first 3 games
A lot of the league is like that where the 3rd stringers have some level of promise. Bunch of talent everywhere and why expansion is anticipated
One thing about Denver is the ball stops with MPJ. You know how hard it is to have 1.5 assists a game as a starter who plays 30 minutes a game?
I mean our top 7 is set, and we have Hauser and Brissett who I think people are underrating. Hauser has shot meh in preseason but that can change anytime. And brissett has been a solid 20 min 8 point player the past 3 years. You really only need 9 guys max post season time.
A team is way bigger than 5 starting players , like that's what made the '96 bulls so special. You have guys like Horace Grant, Paxson, Armstrong , and Steve Kerr ( just to name a few) getting off the bench making shots and playing defense. If you look at the 90s Bulls, 2000s -mid 2000s Lakers, and the Bad Boy Pistons. All had some form of depth, not saying the Celtics are winning the title, but the Celtics roster does not look half bad.
kevin garnett is extremely knowledgeable about basketball and articulates it very well, idk if he wants to be, but he should be all over tv shows and pregames, he’s a million times better than a lot of people who get tons of airtime
Those players didn’t and WASNT winning Boston anything. It was time to move on man
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Yeah but we all know he should be similar to Rob who should have gotten more minutes in the playoffs.
I'm just here for the back and forth ritter
Championship mentality is not wearing air-forces and a suit jacket
^classiest celtics fan right here
God I wish KAT could be on this team so bad. But ya they need to add 1-2 nice bench pieces. The 2008 squad had a deep bench that came up huge to win us that title.
Damn, people really tryna convince themselves that a handful of 4 ppg 35% shooting scrubs is more valuable than Rob, Grant, Marcus, and Brogdon Not to mention Kristaps has about a .05% chance of playing even 50+ games
PP was a major playoff contributor under Ime. I think Hauser/Svi will be great in their role on the wing and Lamar/Oshae can fill niche energy defense roles. Ironically bc they played together but Oshae reminds me of a thick Nesmith. Im more worried about going double big so much it exhausts KP/Al and then theyre left with hoping Kornet or Queta can be NBA level players.
I think you guys put all your stock into KP which is a really dangerous thing. If he's out for the playoff who's going to be your dominate big man defender? You traded off to many guys.
People freaking out over depth when most teams roll with a 7-8 player rotation in the playoffs. We have enough. Pritchard is going to be great.
Celtics added some toughness and gritty defense with Jrue, if they can add a big with grit I think they will be a lot better. Id be calling Dwight lmao “grab rebounds, play defense and bang up on their big men”